PowerMac and Display Rumors

[MacRumors]

According to Appleinsider (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=401), Apple is warning resellers of an upcoming "dry spell":

The company went on to warn dealers that all CPU inventory (with the exception of Power Macs) is expected to be "sold-out" by March 27th and a product dry spell would occur for approximately the first three weeks in April.

In a subsequent report (http://www.appleinsider.com/news.php?id=402), Appleinsider claims the new PowerMac revisions may not ship in quantity until before May.

Also expected are price drops on Apple LCDs next week to help clear the channel.

[Grimace]

that sucks.

[Makosuke]

Interesting that they're actually telling resellers about it. Are they trying to get current models moving in preperation for an upcomming release, or is this really just "innocent" preparation for the educational buying season?

[MacsRgr8]

What could be the problem?

IBM getting the MOTO-disease??? :D

[Some_Big_Spoon]

Nope, just Apple being itself. :(

What could be the problem?

IBM getting the MOTO-disease??? :D

[j33pd0g]

Well if Apple lowers the price on LCDs next week, I'll do my part and help clear the channel.

[QCassidy352]

This seems like *good* news to me. There's no earthly reason that apple would be unable to supply emacs, imacs, etc. (machines that have been out for months and months with old CPUs) unless they were no longer producing them. And the only reason that they wouldn't be producing them is if they were ramping up production of new models. Right?

edit: never mind. just saw the actual article. It will happen because apple will be filling large educational orders.

[swissmann]

I hope they cut prices on the monitors like the last big cut they did when the 20" replaced the 22". At that time the 23" price was about cut in half. I would definitely buy a 20" at half the current listed price. Too bad this really won't happen though. It makes me wonder should I buy the current discounted monitor offering or wait for the new ones. Answer - wait because the new ones will be that much better and probably cheaper or about the same price as the discounted current models anyway.

[Kid Red]

Does that match up with that April 23rd or so date I saw? The first 3 weeks would be after the 21st of April. So I would guess the Tuesday of that week we should see some updates.

[Trimix]

yippppiieeeee, that puts me into buying mode

[invaLPsion]

At least Mac Rumors is staying optimistic...

I wish we could get some more concrete information from them...

Hint, hint, Arn. :D

[captain kirk]

At the very least this may mean new desktops of all varieties within the next month or so. Personally I have a VERY STRONG FEELING that there will be a new form factor iMac within the next month

[captain kirk]

New alu displays would also be very much appreciated

[iChan]

can't wait for a new 23" Display to go with my brand spanking new 15 SD PB!!!

this is going to be a sweet combination.

[jelloshotsrule]

Personally I have a VERY STRONG FEELING that there will be a new form factor iMac within the next month

announced at what occasion?

[twalkabout]

I don't know much about lcds, so can somebody tell me aside from the form factor, and maybe a 30" model, is much likely to change on the monitors? i.e. isn't a 23" lcd a 23" lcd regardless?

[Macmaniac]

Apple needs to get its act together, It can't expect a profit if it allows a dry spell! Jeez Apple at this rate you will announce the new products in April, and release them in May:( Seems to be following a trend!

[coumerelli]

Having grown up in the Show-Me state, I'll believe it when I see it. (And I hope that's really really soon) :D

[klaus]

announced at what occasion?

New form factors are not really just a revision. They will be announced at a big event, probably by Steve itself..so don't think a new imac form factor before wwdc

pm updates soon (maybe only announcement, availability within 2 weeks or so), cause there is already built-in support for them in 10.3.3, they can't afford to have powermacs basicly have the same hardware as 1 year ago, so speedbumps will be the case, maybe updated video cards. Then major announcement of 3ghz at wwdc (mabye only paper release)

apple engineers will not have been sitting on a chair doing nothing for all this time without any major hardware update or release. You can trust me on that one..

[Sun Baked]

What could be the problem?

IBM getting the MOTO-disease??? :DActually is more like the PT Cruiser Year One disease -- hot chip, lots of demand and limited supply while the factory is cranking production up.

With Motorola Apple was the sole customers for the top end of the chip line while, now Apple is competing with quite a few different customers for the 970FX -- IBM, Marvell, Mai Logic, and MicroSoft.

[Stolid]

Actually is more like the PT Cruiser Year One disease -- hot chip, lots of demand and limited supply while the factory is cranking production up.

With Motorola Apple was the sole customers for the top end of the chip line while, now Apple is competing with quite a few different customers for the 970FX -- IBM, Marvell, Mai Logic, and MicroSoft.
ewwww *shudder* don't make me associate the G5 with that ugly thing called the "PT Cruiser" :P

[Trowaman]

so .. . here's what's happening as I see understand it.

Tues: Powermac G5s and Monitors, but not shipping yet.

April 18: NAB, software updates for video is possible (FCP 5 please :))

end of April, the rest of the product line gets updated, including iBooks, iMacs, Power Books and eMacs.

Please correct me if you do not think this is the general concesus.

[Dave the Great]

At the very least this may mean new desktops of all varieties within the next month or so. Personally I have a VERY STRONG FEELING that there will be a new form factor iMac within the next month


What do you think it is going to look like?

I wish they would severely update the eMac, too.

[Dippo]

Could this mean G5 updates in all models???

[manu chao]

This seems like *good* news to me. There's no earthly reason that apple would be unable to supply emacs, imacs, etc. (machines that have been out for months and months with old CPUs) unless they were no longer producing them. And the only reason that they wouldn't be producing them is if they were ramping up production of new models. Right?

edit: never mind. just saw the actual article. It will happen because apple will be filling large educational orders.

Sorry, but this educational thing doesn't make any sense to me. Would Apple get these big educational orders at such a short notice that it would have to cut off supplies to its dealers? Otherwise it would make much more sense to simply produce a bit more in weeks/month before the delivery of the big orders, than to disrupt supplies to its non-edu customers. It costs a little bit to do so, but most Macs aren't selling at a rate, that on would assume production limitations, except maybe the iBooks.

I'll stick with Cassidy's original explanation, under the assumption that the news about the dry spell is correct.

[silvergunuk]

Looks like its gonna be the dual 3ghz G5 towers, new displays and imac/powerbook updates for wwdc

[cr2sh]

Yeh well.. Applensider also saw fit to turn this photoshop into an article.. :rolleyes:

http://homepage.mac.com/timcox/.Pictures/aluminadisplay.jpg

I don't buy into a lot of their "inside info."

[windowsblowsass]

Maybe this really just a big apple april fools joke april 2nd theyll all get new g5 products :D

[Namacste]

OK, so say they drop prices for the LCD next week. As a long-waiting potential buyer, do I go for price or new updates.

Cheaper displays would make the value comparable to newer, better performing LCDs on the market today. But I'm so curious as to the specs of the new ones.

Oh, what to do?

[gwuMACaddict]

grrr...

this sounds like the old motorola days... i dont like hearing things like 'dry spells' and 'out of stock'... :rolleyes:

[lazyrighteye]

I was in the Cherry Creek Apple Store (Denver, CO) over the weekend (as well as the Aspen Grove Apple Store), and in both locations noticed they redesigned the back wall of the Genius Bar.
Gone now, are the images of genius' past - replaced with two, 30" ultra crisp widescreen displays. These displays were running a canned "OS X Tips" animation. Lots of text and graphics over the standard blue OS X desktop look. The text and graphics flying around on the display were incredibly sharp and crisp... making me wonder if the rumored 30" Cinema Display may have some meat to it. Maybe Apple were putting them in all Genius Bars...

Far fetched, perhaps. Wondered if anyone else had noticed and thought the same thing.

Cursed rumor sites. ;)

[afields]

Not sure if this is good news or bad news. Does this mean g5s will be announced by the end of March and ship some time in april, or does this mean they won't even be announced till before may like the article said? :confused: :( :confused: :(

[MarkCollette]

So, if they won't have much stock, due to high demand from education customers, then why would they lower prices to sell their existing stock more, and highten the supply issues?

I think a more plausible reason is that the new machines will make it impossible to sell the old stock, so they really have to squeeze out the old stuff before announcing the new stuff.

And maybe it'll be dry because of all the educational demand for the new stuff...

I could be totally wrong, but doesn't that sound more logical?

[nightcap965]

The day dawned bright with rosy light.
We jumped up from the sack.
With hearts afire for our desire,
The Rev B PowerMac.

Full fourscore days in deep malaise,
We'd waited for Rev B.
But now our eyes would spy the prize,
The ultimate PC.

News of the score we'd heard before,
While waiting on the bench.
Then 'gainst all hope came the straight dope,
The rumor was in French.

Surely today we'd have our way,
Surely today we'd see,
The G5 box that truly rocks,
The fabulous Rev B.

The minutes flew before we knew,
Yet no announcement came.
Despite our prayer no news was there,
Was this some kind of game?

With broken spears and downcast heads,
Came hunters home from hill.
Across the plain we'd searched in vain,
The prey evaded kill.

If you're inclined, please bear in mind,
The fickleness of chance,
The unseen Hand of Apple, and,
The perfidy of France.

Perhaps next week we'll hear a leak,
Proclaimed to all the nation,
A stunning clue that must be true,
Because it's in Croatian.

[morkintosh]

Tues: Powermac G5s and Monitors, but not shipping yet.

April 18: NAB, software updates for video is possible (FCP 5 please :))

end of April, the rest of the product line gets updated, including iBooks, iMacs, Power Books and eMacs.

that would be perfect, but I'm not going to hold my breath

[klaus]

The day dawned bright with rosy light.
We jumped up from the sack.
With hearts afire for our desire,
The Rev B PowerMac.

Full fourscore days in deep malaise,
We'd waited for Rev B.
But now our eyes would spy the prize,
The ultimate PC.

News of the score we'd heard before,
While waiting on the bench.
Then 'gainst all hope came the straight dope,
The rumor was in French.

Surely today we'd have our way,
Surely today we'd see,
The G5 box that truly rocks,
The fabulous Rev B.

The minutes flew before we knew,
Yet no announcement came.
Despite our prayer no news was there,
Was this some kind of game?

With broken spears and downcast heads,
Came hunters home from hill.
Across the plain we'd searched in vain,
The prey evaded kill.

If you're inclined, please bear in mind,
The fickleness of chance,
The unseen Hand of Apple, and,
The perfidy of France.

Perhaps next week we'll hear a leak,
Proclaimed to all the nation,
A stunning clue that must be true,
Because it's in Croatian.

you got way to much spare time on your hands! :D

[windowsblowsass]

The day dawned bright with rosy light.
We jumped up from the sack.
With hearts afire for our desire,
The Rev B PowerMac...


nice poem and i dont usually like poetry :D

[ThomasJefferson]

I have my doubts about this.
We don't get our budgets for the next school year until early-mid June. Its a bit early for an edu buying season.

And if I had a couple of weeks drought in a product, someone in marketing would be looking for a new job.

[HasanDaddy]

I saw the 30" displays at the Pasadena Genius Bar --- personally, I think they're regular, Plasma displays --- I could be wrong though?

would FCP 5 come out this early? or is it about time?

[MacPearl]

I just bought a 15" pb couple days ago. Does this mean my new little shiny pb is going to be out-dated soon (within Apr or Jun)? :mad: That's probably why pb was shipped out pretty quickly - just about 2 days after I've placed an order. Anyway, I don't mind any updates though :cool:

[MattG]

Mmmmmm Dual 2.4ghz G5's
http://homepage.mac.com/mattgudites/macrumors/homer.jpg

[mrdeep]

Mmmmmmm Cheaper Displays
Mmmmmm Dual 2.4ghz G5's
http://homepage.mac.com/mattgudites/macrumors/homer.jpg

[aftk2]

The day dawned bright with rosy light.
We jumped up from the sack.
With hearts afire for our desire,
The Rev B PowerMac.

Full fourscore days in deep malaise,
We'd waited for Rev B.
But now our eyes would spy the prize,
The ultimate PC.


This sounds like it could be a lost Rush song from 1978. :)

[bedrock22]

Cheaper displays indeed!

Just got me a new Dual 1.8 and boy would a nicely priced 23" HD cinema display fit well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd gladly take a reduced priced 23" than a $5000 100" aluminum monitor :p

[szark]

I was in the Cherry Creek Apple Store (Denver, CO) over the weekend (as well as the Aspen Grove Apple Store), and in both locations noticed they redesigned the back wall of the Genius Bar.
Gone now, are the images of genius' past - replaced with two, 30" ultra crisp widescreen displays. These displays were running a canned "OS X Tips" animation. Lots of text and graphics over the standard blue OS X desktop look. The text and graphics flying around on the display were incredibly sharp and crisp... making me wonder if the rumored 30" Cinema Display may have some meat to it. Maybe Apple were putting them in all Genius Bars...

Far fetched, perhaps. Wondered if anyone else had noticed and thought the same thing.

Cursed rumor sites. ;)


You must have missed this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=58976).

I'd love to see new PowerMacs next week, but I'm starting to worry that it might be a longer wait. :(

[Dahl]

"Also expected are price drops on Apple LCDs next week to help clear the channel."

Best "news" in a while.

[stingerman]

Don't forget the major Power event hosted by IBM next week. How much you wanna bet, it turns into an IBM-Apple event?

[singletrack]

OK Apple, so you've got nothing left to sell to us.

Now what harm would there be in telling us ahead of schedule that you've got nice new machines coming in the next month. Hey, if we order a month before you originally were going to announce, that gives you a whole month to still deliver on time and have enough stock in place for the rush. ;-)

[djbahdow01]

Don't forget the major Power event hosted by IBM next week. How much you wanna bet, it turns into an IBM-Apple event?

That would be the best way for apple to go, come on if IBM has something to say Apple sure should too. Its been far too long for apple not to say something publicly. I am glad i have not had to deal with the wait times in the Moto era, but this wait time granted probably not Apple's or IBM's fault is getting a little long as well. The way its going forget 2.4 GHz lets go for the dual 3.0 for this update as they have had far enougb time to get everything worked out as they were probably getting 2.4 or higher in december or before that time. Remeber computer companies are always working on something new when they release their "newest" product. Who knows IBM probably has sent them the 60 or 65nm technology and they are in the first phases for those computers. Guess we'll find out soon enough as this IBM meeting will probably be the road map for the next year.

[rdowns]

announced at what occasion?

How about "We're finally going to sell a decent consumer machine day." Hallmark must have a card.

[lewdvig]

We are all just dreaming.

Apple has got nothing. Even their wall of secrecy can't keep the truth out when there is actually something big coming.

woo hoo - 50gb iPods!

my 30gb unit is not even half full yet.

[sethypoo]

that sucks.

No, really?!?!

[tsk]

I have my doubts about this.
We don't get our budgets for the next school year until early-mid June. Its a bit early for an edu buying season.

And if I had a couple of weeks drought in a product, someone in marketing would be looking for a new job.

I think it's more for the end of the buying season. I know some people who have money left to burn so they'll be making hardware purchases.

[jsw]

Is it just me, or is this the slowest Apple period ever? I honestly can't remember a time when there was this long between real news. I mean, it's been years at least (since the last dry spell like this). Aside from 10.3 - what? five months ago? - there's been basically nothing. Dual 1.8's. Wow! G5 Xserve! Wow - if you're a business, maybe...

Would someone please just make something up so we could have something new to talk about?

[johnnyjibbs]

new cheaper displays would be cool. A brushed metal widescreeen 17" would be lush next to my 12" PowerBook! (at a price I could afford?)

[JohnGillilan]

Does anyone anticipate any other changes to updated displays other than a new aluminum form factor?? HD-TV support?? I realize there was another post regarding this, however, I am going to have a hard time passing up a heavily discounted version of the current 20"/23" display. What else could a new LCD bring in terms of new/exclusive features??

[warcraftmaster]

The day dawned bright with rosy light.
We jumped up from the sack.
With hearts afire for our desire,
The Rev B PowerMac.

Full fourscore days in deep malaise,
We'd waited for Rev B.
But now our eyes would spy the prize,
The ultimate PC.

News of the score we'd heard before,
While waiting on the bench.
Then 'gainst all hope came the straight dope,
The rumor was in French.

Surely today we'd have our way,
Surely today we'd see,
The G5 box that truly rocks,
The fabulous Rev B.

The minutes flew before we knew,
Yet no announcement came.
Despite our prayer no news was there,
Was this some kind of game?

With broken spears and downcast heads,
Came hunters home from hill.
Across the plain we'd searched in vain,
The prey evaded kill.

If you're inclined, please bear in mind,
The fickleness of chance,
The unseen Hand of Apple, and,
The perfidy of France.

Perhaps next week we'll hear a leak,
Proclaimed to all the nation,
A stunning clue that must be true,
Because it's in Croatian.




wow nice poem, can i use it for school? Plz only my teacher will see it(can you help a poor kid pass grade 10 enlgish) too bad i need two more(hint hint). i live all the way in canada on a small island too.

[mactarkus]

For the first time in my Mac-life, I have the means to purchase a top-of-the-line dream Mac. Over the years, I've had to compromise, but not this time. I've been waiting to pull the trigger on the Rev 2 G5 since the morning of Macworld Stevenote. I check rumor sites in the morning, at lunch, and after work. Nothing for months on end!! End the agony!! Give me something to buy!!!

[smeddy]

agreed. educational/institutional order should be fairly predictable. even if they are greater than normal, i cant imagine that they would be so great as to eat up the entire consumer pipeline.

also, where is the logic relating "educational orders" with knocking down the price on lcd displays in order to "clear the pipeline." this seems more than a little contradictory.

on the other hand, would you really expect them to say, "supply will be tight because we're trying to clear out all the obsolete machines." i don't think that is likely.

two possibilities, so far as i can see. assembly lines are being retooled as we speak and new machines will be rolling off of them shortly, hopefully appearing in april or, even more likely, the original story is simply not correct.

if apple was so incompetent as to let what the story asserts actually happen we had better not get too attached to our macs and start reconciling ourselves to windows... you cannot simply stop production for a month...

Sorry, but this educational thing doesn't make any sense to me. Would Apple get these big educational orders at such a short notice that it would have to cut off supplies to its dealers? Otherwise it would make much more sense to simply produce a bit more in weeks/month before the delivery of the big orders, than to disrupt supplies to its non-edu customers. It costs a little bit to do so, but most Macs aren't selling at a rate, that on would assume production limitations, except maybe the iBooks.

I'll stick with Cassidy's original explanation, under the assumption that the news about the dry spell is correct.

[Sonofhaig]

edit: never mind. just saw the actual article. It will happen because apple will be filling large educational orders.

Yes.... this is a good thing too. I still believe this will be an awesome year of amazing products coming from Apple. Patience Grasshopper.

[ClimbingTheLog]

I still believe this will be an awesome year of amazing products coming from Apple. Patience Grasshopper.

Yeah, we're still waiting for the Year of the Laptop.

[appleface]

Would someone please just make something up so we could have something new to talk about?

set top box coming out april 1.

edit:
nevermind. that's not new.

[fluidinclusion]

Although a quiet spell isn't what we all want, this may be the perfect time for a production line retooling. Although all is quiet on the computer front, the iPod/iPod mini is taking most of the attention away from Apple's long-in-the-tooth computer lines. Updating now while Pepsi/iTunes and great iPod sales seems like a smart plan.

Perhaps presenting too many new products at once would diminish the fever for iPods, at least for Mac users who might have a fixed budget to buy Apple stuff.

[nightcap965]

Last October, I got clearance from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, aka the Bright and Shining Center of my Universe, to blow big bucks on a shiny new top o' the line G5.

I almost bought one at Night of the Panther, but figured that it would only be a couple months until a speed bump at MWSF.

The Bright and Shining Center of my Universe has taken to rolling her eyes back in her head whenever I mention the latest rumor. She reminds me that normal people just buy the damned computer; they don't watch the company like the US used to watch Red Square on May Day. ("Who's that standing next to Andropov? Is he an up-and-coming Party functionary or just 'Next-to-drop-off'?")

But with each passing day it becomes harder and harder to just buy the damned computer. The Rapture is coming! Rev. B. will be here soon, and those who bought the old model will be cast into the outer darkness, with wailing and gnashing of teeth!

I've got to stop reading rumor sites...



First the first time in my Mac-life, I have the means to purchase a top-of-the-line dream Mac. Over the years, I've had to compromise, but not this time. I've been waiting to pull the trigger on the Rev 2 G5 since the morning of Macworld Stevenote. I check rumor sites in the morning, at lunch, and after work. Nothing for months on end!! End the agony!! Give me something to buy!!!

[AidenShaw]

I don't know much about lcds, so can somebody tell me aside from the form factor, and maybe a 30" model, is much likely to change on the monitors? i.e. isn't a 23" lcd a 23" lcd regardless?

Not at all - aside from the usual features, look at the brightness and contrast ratios quoted....

Apple 23" - brightness 200 cd/m2, contrast 350:1 (1920x1200) $1999
Samsung 24" - brightness 300 cd/m2, contrast 500:1 (1920x1200) $2440
Samsung 21.3" - brightness 250 cd/m2, contrast 500:1 (1600x1200) $1194

Apple 17" - 200 cd/m2, 350:1 (1280x1024) $699
Samsung 17" - 270 cd/m2, 450:1 (1280x1024) $504 (173T)


Apple's displays had OK specs when they were released, but that was a long time ago. Other makers have much brighter, sharper monitors now.

Plus, the Samsungs have standard DVI and VGA inputs (dual input, analog and digital) as well as narrow-bezel height and angle adjustable stands, and can pivot from landscape to portrait mode.

Apple - well you know how lame those tacky wide-bezel plastic easel stands are.

[ClimbingTheLog]

Apple 23" - brightness 200 cd/m2, contrast 350:1 (1920x1200) $1999
Samsung 24" - brightness 300 cd/m2, contrast 500:1 (1920x1200) $2440
Samsung 21.3" - brightness 250 cd/m2, contrast 500:1 (1600x1200) $1194

Apple 17" - 200 cd/m2, 350:1 (1280x1024) $699
Samsung 17" - 270 cd/m2, 450:1 (1280x1024) $504 (173T)


Last I heard, Apple's LCD's are Samsungs. Apple bankrolled their LCD fab. Apple's on a slower release schedule, but they always have the best Samsung can make whenever they release a new display.

You're right, their product line is out of date. Wait a couple weeks.

[jade]

twas the night before tuesday
all the owners of beige g3s
aiming to use imovie with speed
hoping since october for the rev b's

all hope was lost in the rumor mill
Apple PR, with the preparedness of a camel
warned resellers they are clearing the channel
to make way for ipod minis and left the rest to unravel

the beginning of this "great mac year"
has passed without incident, quietly
the naysayers prove right and proclaim with glee
new hardware, I'll see you at WWDC



I think this next quarter will be the worst in Apple history, since we all know that there will be the inevitable delays when new products are finally released.

*with all this extra time on my hand waiting for updates, I thought i'd give it a try too.

[Krrill]

For the first time in my Mac-life, I have the means to purchase a top-of-the-line dream Mac. Over the years, I've had to compromise, but not this time. I've been waiting to pull the trigger on the Rev 2 G5 since the morning of Macworld Stevenote. I check rumor sites in the morning, at lunch, and after work. Nothing for months on end!! End the agony!! Give me something to buy!!!

LOL, you do this too? :D

[AidenShaw]

... Apple bankrolled their [Samsung's] LCD fab. ...

You're right, their product line is out of date. Wait a couple weeks.


Apple made an investment, but not a major one....

http://www.crn.com/sections/BreakingNews/dailyarchives.asp?ArticleID=7924

8:12 PM EST Wed., July 28, 1999

In another sign of consolidation in the LCD industry, Apple Computer Inc. today said it will invest $100 million in Samsung Semiconductor Inc. to help expand Samsung's TFT LCD capacity.

Apple's investment comes only two days after Philips Flat Display Systems, San Jose, Calif., and LG Electronics, Seoul, South Korea, finalized their previously announced agreement. Under that deal, Philips will invest about $1.6 billion in LG's wholly owned LCD business, LG LCD.


BTW, Dell seems to have been reaping the benefits of Samsung's technologies - many of the Dell branded LCD displays are little more than re-badged Samsungs.


It's too bad that Apple's selling older stuff, while the new LCDs with the good brightness/contrast specs are going to Samsung and Dell.

[hughdogg]

Last October, I got clearance from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, aka the Bright and Shining Center of my Universe, to blow big bucks on a shiny new top o' the line G5.

I almost bought one at Night of the Panther, but figured that it would only be a couple months until a speed bump at MWSF.

The Bright and Shining Center of my Universe has taken to rolling her eyes back in her head whenever I mention the latest rumor. She reminds me that normal people just buy the damned computer; they don't watch the company like the US used to watch Red Square on May Day. ("Who's that standing next to Andropov? Is he an up-and-coming Party functionary or just 'Next-to-drop-off'?")

But with each passing day it becomes harder and harder to just buy the damned computer. The Rapture is coming! Rev. B. will be here soon, and those who bought the old model will be cast into the outer darkness, with wailing and gnashing of teeth!

I've got to stop reading rumor sites...

This was the best post I've read in weeks! :D :D :D
Good stuff...same here, the Minister of Finance in our household has OK'd a PB purchase, but I am sooo afraid to be 'that guy' who bought the last G4 PB ever produced..DOH!

Cheers,
hughdogg

[morkintosh]

Would someone please just make something up so we could have something new to talk about?

ok, here goes:

Apple Computer inc. (Cupertino, CA) announced today that it is pulling out of the computer technology sector to pursue development of a consumer electronics line. CEO, Steve Jobs broke the news this morning on an analyst call; "these iPod things are too damn sweet, I just love them and can't see myself doing any other kind of business when there is so much cool music technology to throw billions at!" When asked to comment on pending Beatles lawsuits Jobs responded "F%(S em!", raising serious doubts among stock holders as to his current state of mind. "Sure Steve did a lot of acid when he was younger, but no one saw this coming", an unnamed source told us late this afternoon ...

[elgruga]

What a strange day on the Apple rumor mill.

I just bought a 17 LCD LG1710B( DVI and SVGA) for $600 CAD (brand new), Its pretty nice, but I wish I had heard about price drps on Apple LCD's.
Still, the Apple 17 i amost twice the price and this thing works off my DVI Powerbook very nicely.

If the arent making any iPod minis, and they arent making any boxes, what are they doing in cupertino?
(Yes, I know they dont actually manufacture there)

Strange days.

Oh love that quote: Since any reasonable person would choose a Mac over a PC, Apple's market share does provide us with an accurate reading of the percentage of reasonable people in our society.
-Roger Ebert

[ultrafiel]

Originally Posted by mactarkus

For the first time in my Mac-life, I have the means to purchase a top-of-the-line dream Mac. Over the years, I've had to compromise, but not this time. I've been waiting to pull the trigger on the Rev 2 G5 since the morning of Macworld Stevenote. I check rumor sites in the morning, at lunch, and after work. Nothing for months on end!! End the agony!! Give me something to buy!!!


LOL, you do this too? :D

It must be contagious, because I do this also. I swear if new Powermacs don't come out in April I'm going to go insane. If I would have known nothing was coming out I might have bought something in Jan. Now, however, I can't buy until the update comes, however far off that is. I'm not going to pay for something 6 months old.

All the rumor sites are pretty slow right now. Thinksecret hardly mentions anything anymore. Appleinsider isn't reliable, Macrumors is the only creditible place that is updating. MacOSRumors is nonsense but is updating, so I visit it and get frustrated with myself for doing so because all it is is reader mail, vague guesses that cover all their bases, catchlines to get you to come back, and them begging for sponsers to get them new toys in exchange for advertising.

I'd be willing to pay more money to Apple if had a clear roadmap so I didn't go through all this anixiety. And I don't buy the rumors about Apple waiting until July-Sept and just come out with a 3 Ghz machine with nothing until then. Money is what motivates companies to do things, and there won't be good sales if they did that. They get a boost in sales each update for the people waiting like me, so they'd missed a whole update money boost. Doesn't seem smart to me.

[Parikh1234]

nothing against the current pm line, its awesome. Anyone who has the money to buy one should have bought one and stopped bitching about apple not releasing new stuff every tuesday. On the other side, at this point, i personally feel (and i am going to do this), i would wait till wwdc to order a powermac and hopefully itll ship before december. Even if they announce something this tuesday, it wont ship until may. And unless apple pulls something crazy out of their sleeve, its gonna be a 2.4 dual or something. Why not just wait the couple of extra months and get a 3.0 (promised). I dont know if this all makes sense or not. But its what im gonna do.

[segundo]

Last October, I got clearance from the Chancellor of the Exchequer, aka the Bright and Shining Center of my Universe, to blow big bucks on a shiny new top o' the line G5.

My "Bright and Shining Center" has been 86'd so I am hearby clearing myself to blow big bucks on a shiny new G5. But I'm not sure if I should go big or small . . . here's some history:

Monday January 28, 2002 09:57 AM EST
$1599 - 800Mhz G4, 40GB, CD-RW, Radeon 7500, 256MB
$2299 - 933Mhz G4, 60GB, SuperDrive, GeForce4 MX, 256MB
$2999 - Dual 1Ghz, 80GB, SuperDrive, GeForce 4 MX, 512MB
$3649 - Dual 1Ghz, 80GBx2, SuperDrive, GeForce 4 MX, 1.5GB


Tuesday January 28, 2003 08:42 AM EST
$1499, 1GHz G4, FW800, 256MB, Geforce4MX
$1999, Dual 1.25GHz G4, FW800, 256MB, Radeon 9000 Pro
$2699, Dual 1.42GHz G4, FW800, 512MB, Radeon 9000 Pro, SuperDrive


Monday June 23, 2003 05:17 PM EST
$1,999: Single 1.6GHz G5, 800MHz Bus, SuperDrive, 80GB S-ATA HD
$2,399: Single 1.8GHz G5, 900MHz Bus, SuperDrive, 160GB S-ATA HD
$2,999: Dual 2.0GHz G5, 1GHz Bus, SuperDrive, 160GB S-ATA HD


Tuesday November 18, 2003 08:37 AM EST
Single 1.6GHz PowerMac - $1799 (from $1999)
Dual 1.8GHz PowerMac - $2499 (new)
Dual 2.0GHz PowerMac - $2999 (Unchanged)


What looks like the best deal over time? The low, mid, or high end? Maybe that should be broken into to two questions . . . what is (or has been) the best value for general use computing and what is (or has been) the best value for power computing such as video processing? Which new LCD would you pair with that?

My wager: A new single 2.0 G5 and a new 20" LCD will provide the best overall value in the coming line up . . . at least that's what I'm preparing for . . . :)

[ryanw]

It must be contagious, because I do this also. I swear if new Powermacs don't come out in April I'm going to go insane. If I would have known nothing was coming out I might have bought something in Jan. Now, however, I can't buy until the update comes, however far off that is. I'm not going to pay for something 6 months old.

All the rumor sites are pretty slow right now. Thinksecret hardly mentions anything anymore. Appleinsider isn't reliable, Macrumors is the only creditible place that is updating. MacOSRumors is nonsense but is updating, so I visit it and get frustrated with myself for doing so because all it is is reader mail, vague guesses that cover all their bases, catchlines to get you to come back, and them begging for sponsers to get them new toys in exchange for advertising.

I'd be willing to pay more money to Apple if had a clear roadmap so I didn't go through all this anixiety. And I don't buy the rumors about Apple waiting until July-Sept and just come out with a 3 Ghz machine with nothing until then. Money is what motivates companies to do things, and there won't be good sales if they did that. They get a boost in sales each update for the people waiting like me, so they'd missed a whole update money boost. Doesn't seem smart to me.

Yea... I don't know why, I never had this tension when I was into the PC world. We'd hear months or years ahead what each company was going to release. AMD, Intel, Microsoft, etc.. and in several cases we'd be running beta versions of Microsoft's "New OS" before it was ever released.

I've always thought this was the smartest thing Microsoft ever did. They would leak beta versions of their latest OS to come out in 6 months and people would run these beta versions at home, and things would blow up really bad all the time. So when the final release of the new OS actually released the people were always happy at all the things they fixed from the beta they were running earlier that year. Even though there were tons of problems, the big problems they had using the beta were fixed. So it was kind of a 'customer conditioning' that Microsoft would do.

I don't understand why I have this lust for apple anouncements, but I do. I can't quite understand it. It might be just because of the agony I used to go through using windows for all these years and the enjoyment I get from each new product. OSX, iPod, iTunes, PowerMac, iMac, GarageBand, iPhoto, iDVD, iMovie, Safari, iCal, Logic, FinalCutPro, DVD Studio Pro, etc... All stuff that has heavily changed my life in a major way. My entire approach to using technology to accomplish real tasks has changed because of Apple/Steve Jobs.

[Opteron]

Dry Spell :rolleyes:
pfft

Apple has dropped the ball

[Sped]

If Apple truly can't keep enough inventory to supply its resellers with product for 3-4 weeks, the end is near for Apple. I just got the most recent Money magazine and read an article (http://www.macnn.com/news/23877) regarding Apple's future, and it doesn't seem good. The article describes Apple's products as cool but its stock as crap. Unfortunately I can't really disagree.

Apple has to execute more or less perfectly to maintain ground. As it stands, Apple is selling less high margin CPUs and more low margin iPods. What this means is that Apple will eventually start to eat into its cash hoard which will be the beginning of the end. The only way to prevent this is to continue to produce compelling high margin products to its solid following.

I really want to buy a new Powerbook. But there is no way I am going to drop over $2000 on a computer that is six months old. Apple better get its act together.

[aswitcher]

I think Apple would get some additional interest if their new screens allowed Portrait as an option, supported with an os upgrade. Plenty of people work on documents in business and at home, and the option to tilt the screen would be welcome.

[madamimadam]

I might just mention that it is quite unlikely that Apple will update the PowerMacs just after they have extended the PowerMac Trade-In deal. Same with the PowerBooks and the iPod deal.

Edit: PowerMac Trade-In = End of April
PowerBook & iPod = Easter

Edit2: New deal = Buy a PowerMac and 23" display and get $500US of the monitor
Extension on .Mac deal = Buy any mac and get .Mac discounted ($99 Australian) until June 26

[Sun Baked]

>sped

There's a little more to Apple's Stock price than growth...

The turnaround at Apple is amazing even though the stock price really doesn't reflect it. The company's profit is decent in a bad market, they've been bulking up their patent portfolio with corporate purchases, and their debt-to-equity is much better that many other companies.

Right now they're actually the type of company Warren Buffet would invest in, since they aren't buying revenue like maniacs with debt, or lavishing stock-options on the janitor.

Of course these dry spells for new product are a bit ridiculous with the number of years they've been going on...

Though low margin iPods are a lot less dangerous than a low margin computer with a $599 price tag that they may need to unload to a discounter for $99 and eat a huge loss on.

A bit more room for error, as long as the computer market doesn't hit the red ink.

Of course Apple is also playing with a larger volume of unit than they're used to, but have also been running inventory rather low -- and not selling as many as they could, aka dry spells.

[Belly-laughs]

Yeh well.. Applensider also saw fit to turn this photoshop into an article.. :rolleyes:

http://homepage.mac.com/timcox/.Pictures/aluminadisplay.jpg

I don't buy into a lot of their "inside info."

Now, let´s see what they do about this :)

[jade]

If Apple truly can't keep enough inventory to supply its resellers with product for 3-4 weeks, the end is near for Apple. I just got the most recent Money magazine and read an article (http://www.macnn.com/news/23877) regarding Apple's future, and it doesn't seem good. The article describes Apple's products as cool but its stock as crap. Unfortunately I can't really disagree.

Apple has to execute more or less perfectly to maintain ground. As it stands, Apple is selling less high margin CPUs and more low margin iPods. What this means is that Apple will eventually start to eat into its cash hoard which will be the beginning of the end. The only way to prevent this is to continue to produce compelling high margin products to its solid following.


Those analysts do not have a problem with ipod margins, really the margins are excellent 20-40$ profit, but the revenues of ipods make up I believe a measly 7% of Apples revenues.

And well since Apple is a computer company, it really doesn't help much on the whole scheme of things.

Apple has quite a few key issues to address in order to increase marketshare and revenues.

1. the "hit" factor. Apple relies on hit products to drive sales. iPods, Albooks, imacs etc. If one of these projected hits fails it screws up the revenues for the quarter, or if it is too successful, shortages ruin Apple's reputation (See imacs, ipods and 15" powerbooks)
2. Inventory issues. Apple needs to get the manufacturing problem licked. Something new comes out, retailers have it for a week. apple announces unexpected demand and is unable to keep supplies of the product. Retailers are irritated because customers leave their stores to find it in stock elsewhere, or Apple loses because the person picks an alternative. Also messes up revenues, and leaves the sales in peaks and valleys (See ipods, powermac g5s and xserve g5s)
3. Pricing. Apple's pricing hasn't kept pace with the industry sweet spot. (See declining sales of imacs and emacs)
4. Quality control. Overall apples quality is good, but of course with all of the bad press steming from the white spots and logic boards there is definitely work needed.
5. Declining marketshare and developer support. Of course all of this goes back to sales and attractig new customers. Apple is making inroads in unexpected markets, but really needs to come up with a compelling enterprise-class solution, and quit stopping at selling to the artists. How about the rest of the office, or university?

Maybe we will see some of this improve soon.

[sonyrules]

ok, here goes:

Apple Computer inc. (Cupertino, CA) announced today that it is pulling out of the computer technology sector to pursue development of a consumer electronics line. CEO, Steve Jobs broke the news this morning on an analyst call; "these iPod things are too damn sweet, I just love them and can't see myself doing any other kind of business when there is so much cool music technology to throw billions at!" When asked to comment on pending Beatles lawsuits Jobs responded "F%(S em!", raising serious doubts among stock holders as to his current state of mind. "Sure Steve did a lot of acid when he was younger, but no one saw this coming", an unnamed source told us late this afternoon ...

Oh, thats too funny

[ryanw]

Those analysts do not have a problem with ipod margins, really the margins are excellent 20-40$ profit, but the revenues of ipods make up I believe a measly 7% of Apples revenues.

And well since Apple is a computer company, it really doesn't help much on the whole scheme of things.

Apple has quite a few key issues to address in order to increase marketshare and revenues.

1. the "hit" factor. Apple relies on hit products to drive sales. iPods, Albooks, imacs etc. If one of these projected hits fails it screws up the revenues for the quarter, or if it is too successful, shortages ruin Apple's reputation (See imacs, ipods and 15" powerbooks)
2. Inventory issues. Apple needs to get the manufacturing problem licked. Something new comes out, retailers have it for a week. apple announces unexpected demand and is unable to keep supplies of the product. Retailers are irritated because customers leave their stores to find it in stock elsewhere, or Apple loses because the person picks an alternative. Also messes up revenues, and leaves the sales in peaks and valleys (See ipods, powermac g5s and xserve g5s)
3. Pricing. Apple's pricing hasn't kept pace with the industry sweet spot. (See declining sales of imacs and emacs)
4. Quality control. Overall apples quality is good, but of course with all of the bad press steming from the white spots and logic boards there is definitely work needed.
5. Declining marketshare and developer support. Of course all of this goes back to sales and attractig new customers. Apple is making inroads in unexpected markets, but really needs to come up with a compelling enterprise-class solution, and quit stopping at selling to the artists. How about the rest of the office, or university?

Maybe we will see some of this improve soon.


Well, this is apple's problem. They are very big headed. They think they have the best product on the planet and want to keep everything under their control. I understand the reasons or wanting to not become a "software company", but apple is slowing becoming a software company. Final Cut Pro, Logic, Shake, iLife, OSX, etc. They should come to terms with IBM and make an OEM deal to release OSX for IBM's PowerPC line of computers. The Power4 big daddies... Imagine running OSX on these machines:
http://www-132.ibm.com/content/home/store_IBMPublicUSA/en_US/eServer/pSeries/mid_range/pSeries_midrange.html

Now we're talking. No PC will compare with an 8way Power4 PPC box. Screw the Dual G5 .... Apple wouldn't lose money doing an OEM with IBM on their larger machines because if you think about it, people in the market to buy an upper $40,000 machine aren't going to think about buying a Dual G5 or even a bunch of XServes clustered together. They want a BIG BAD MACHINE. Apple does not have a BIG BAD MACHINE. Sorry, No DUAL 3GHz G5 compares to a 16 processor Power4 with 256GB of memory. Some shops can afford $50,000 for a BIG BAD machine to run Photoshop, Logic, Final Cut Pro, etc.. its cheaper than some of the $1.5million dollar hardware solutions out there, apple is not capitolizing on this.

[Stoffel]

I have received a spam mail by a local apple dealer here in Germany with special offers for displays with powermacs g5 which is valid until the end of march with a remark to possible new powermacs, quote: "No, there will be no new g5s in april.".

So, dunno..... I just hope for new pbs g4.

[klaus]

I have received a spam mail by a local apple dealer here in Germany with special offers for displays with powermacs g5 which is valid until the end of march with a remark to possible new powermacs, quote: "No, there will be no new g5s in april.".

So, dunno..... I just hope for new pbs g4.


Obviously he just wants to sell his machines in stock, that's the only reason for that mail. A few days ago, I spoke to an Apple Europe guy at an Apple seminar (drivenbydesign) and he told me Apple Europe (or Belgium for that matter) has the same info on new G5's as we have. NONE.

So this local reseller in Germany would have certainty that there won't be new machines in april? Comeon, if he knows this, it would have leaked on the numerous rumour sites as well, and if several unlinked sources claim the same,then you could consider it..

but now..i don't buy it.

Powermacs will come in april, otherwise they'll have to wait till july (wwdc) to announce updates, and 1 year is too long for a pro-line!

[365]

When will Apple realise that while they may be arguably World leaders in industrial design, they are a massive failure as an hardware company. Their recent track record of product roll outs with problems is well documented and must have cost the company a small fortune. The fact is that if it wasn't for interest on all that money in the bank Apple would be losing money at an alarming rate.

The time has come to split the company in two, a hardware and software company. The software company can start licensing OSX for x86 and I think will go from strength to strength the hardware division will then realise that they make no money at building computers and start producing more consumer devices.

This is a purple patch for Apple, the G5 is the best machine they have produced for the last four years, yet they are still losing a small fortune every quarter, they are also losing market share at an alarming rate.. It's time someone acted before it's too late.

Apple will never go away but they could become ripe for a takeover if they're not careful.

[klaus]

When will Apple realise that while they may be arguably World leaders in industrial design, they are a massive failure as an hardware company. Their recent track record of product roll outs with problems is well documented and must have cost the company a small fortune. The fact is that if it wasn't for interest on all that money in the bank Apple would be losing money at an alarming rate.

The time has come to split the company in two, a hardware and software company. The software company can start licensing OSX for x86 and I think will go from strength to strength the hardware division will then realise that they make no money at building computers and start producing more consumer devices.

This is a purple patch for Apple, the G5 is the best machine they have produced for the last four years, yet they are still losing a small fortune every quarter, they are also losing market share at an alarming rate.. It's time someone acted before it's too late.

Apple will never go away but they could become ripe for a takeover if they're not careful.


One might think how it's possible that Apple does STILL make such huge profits! So it's not going as bad as everyone (the few people on the board) think it is.. otherwise it would be known by the rest of the industry as well.

[365]

One might think how it's possible that Apple does STILL make such huge profits! So it's not going as bad as everyone (the few people on the board) think it is.. otherwise it would be known by the rest of the industry as well.

Klaus, Apple make a profit for one reason only, they have over $4 Billion cash in the bank and that makes them a lot of interest. If you discount that interest last quarter, then Apple made a loss of $1 Million. When that money in the bank starts to fall the analysts will quickly pick up on it, the share price will start falling and Apple will be ripe for the picking. It's not going to happen tommorow but 18-24 months down the line could be a very different picture. Like I say, Apple aren't ever going bust but what a pity if someone like Sony got they're hands on Apple.

Trendy hardware is very nice to pose with but I use a computer as a tool not a fashion statement. OSX is the real jewel in the Apple crown yet Apple are doing their usual stunt of saying, if you want to use this software you must first buy our computer, the thing is we can't really come up with the goods on a regular basis because we have no real buying clout due to our dwindling market share. They've done this from the very beginning and have paid the price while watching Microsoft who concentrated on being "good" hmm.. well ok, who concentrated on one thing, grow into the massive force that they are today, albeit with an arguably far inferior product. They're doing it with the iPod now.. it's a sign of weak leadership.. Oodles of passion and charisma doesn't make you a great businessman it just gets you lots of column inches.

[klaus]

365, I understand many of your arguments and issues, and am glad we can have a normal discussion on this board (this is not always the case).

It is quite fair to state that they need to get their production and shipping up to speed, the technology is present, no doubt about it, cause the technology mainly comes from respected companies like IBM, ATI, Samsung, etc. They have made mistakes before, and will make mistakes in the future as well, but they have to learn from it, and I doubt it if that's not the case, They are probably working on it, and need to do this harder, until they have a solid, running production system, with good shipping periods, and good service.

I'm just trying to point out that I do not think apple isn't doing anything about it, but they need to improve on this a lot. It's no dramatic scenario for the moment, and they can only improve. I'll keep supporting them, and I think you will too.

They'll recover and be stronger than before, at least, if they want to stay in the IT business that is..

[Mac-Xpert]

Trendy hardware is very nice to pose with but I use a computer as a tool not a fashion statement. OSX is the real jewel in the Apple crown yet Apple are doing their usual stunt of saying, if you want to use this software you must first buy our computer, the thing is we can't really come up with the goods on a regular basis because we have no real buying clout due to our dwindling market share.
But I think you're missing one of the important reasons why Mac Os-X is as good as it is. And that's that it runs on Apple controlled hardware. If Mac Os-X could run on just any hardware, they would have the same type of problems (with missing/ non-functional drivers, and viruses if they have a big market-share) that Microsoft or Linux has. Although it would be nice if prices on Apple stuff could come down a bit and if we would see updates more regularly, I do think that Apple keeping control over the entire platform (hardware and software) is a good thing.

[365]

But I think you're missing one of the important reasons why Mac Os-X is as good as it is. And that's that it runs on Apple controlled hardware.

This is the argument that everyone uses but the thing is Apple can very easily come up with a reference specification and if you licensed the OS to companies like HP then they have more than enough resources to write the few drivers that would be required.

The other argument as always been to point to the cloning disaster of the 90's. Well it doesn't take a clever man to realise that if you have a small market that uses minority components, you don't open up your market to all comers, that move was always doomed to failure. OSX for x86 is a totally different ball game, becuase instead of opening up your own 2.5% market, you're going after the other guys 95% market, your own is still protected to a large extent, although I still maintain that Apple are a failure at hardware production ( not hardware design )

If Apple split into two companies, there would probably be a period where things appeared to go down hill but that would be a short term problem and I am sure that eventually Apple the software company would become a dominant player. The market is ripe for the picking, corporates are tired of Microsoft but the only alternative they have is Linux which to be honest is a perfect example of chaos theory.

Apple should grasp the opportunity, as they say, fortune favours the brave.

[365]

365, I understand many of your arguments and issues, and am glad we can have a normal discussion on this board (this is not always the case).

Klaus, if we can agree on nothing else we can agree on this :) I can't believe how refreshing it is to be able to have a balanced discussion without being flamed. The macnn.com board is like the Beiruit of the internet, it's a brave man that dares to criticise Apple in there :eek:

[klaus]

Klaus, if we can agree on nothing else we can agree on this :) I can't believe how refreshing it is to be able to have a balanced discussion without being flamed. The macnn.com board is like the Beiruit of the internet, it's a brave man that dares to criticise Apple in there :eek:

True :p, but I wouldn't say we don't agree on nothing else, i'll be the last to say apple needs to get their act together, at least better than it is now, and we both like apple, otherwise we wouldn't be here...

now if only apple would announce major updates to their product line, maybe we also could agree on the fact they are making progress! :D

[Spagolli94]

Is it just me, or is this the slowest Apple period ever? I honestly can't remember a time when there was this long between real news. I mean, it's been years at least (since the last dry spell like this). Aside from 10.3 - what? five months ago? - there's been basically nothing. Dual 1.8's. Wow! G5 Xserve! Wow - if you're a business, maybe...

Would someone please just make something up so we could have something new to talk about?

I agree. I am in the market for a new display. I remember 6 months ago, I was holding off, thinking "gotta be any day now." All the news over the past few months has been about the iPod.MacWorld was flat out depressing. Hmmm... Let's see. Server stuff. The fixed iPhoto and decided to charge you for a version that actually works and a friggin karaoke machine. Nice.

[Spagolli94]

ok, here goes:

Apple Computer inc. (Cupertino, CA) announced today that it is pulling out of the computer technology sector to pursue development of a consumer electronics line. CEO, Steve Jobs broke the news this morning on an analyst call; "these iPod things are too damn sweet, I just love them and can't see myself doing any other kind of business when there is so much cool music technology to throw billions at!" When asked to comment on pending Beatles lawsuits Jobs responded "F%(S em!", raising serious doubts among stock holders as to his current state of mind. "Sure Steve did a lot of acid when he was younger, but no one saw this coming", an unnamed source told us late this afternoon ...

Hahahah. Good one. Doesn't seem that far out, does it? For us computer users, I am starting to feel forgotten about. iPod this, iPod that. Already got one. Yes, they are cool. Yes, they are selling well. Get over it and give us some new hardware to buy.

[choogheem]

Without a doubt, this is the real reason behind the delays - especially in the powerbook line. Can't wait for the thunderstorms in my computer cooling off the cpu!
Mini Thunderstorms (http://news.com.com/2100-7337_3-5179422.html?tag=nefd_top)
My personal opinion, the new screens will not be lcd, but will be oled displays.

[punkmac]

According to Appleinsider (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=401), Apple is warning resellers of an upcoming "dry spell":



In a subsequent report (http://www.appleinsider.com/news.php?id=402), Appleinsider claims the new PowerMac revisions may not ship in quantity until before May.

Also expected are price drops on Apple LCDs next week to help clear the channel.

G5's across the board!!!!!


It's nice to dream.

I.

[Grimace]

Without a doubt, this is the real reason behind the delays - especially in the powerbook line. Can't wait for the thunderstorms in my computer cooling off the cpu!
Mini Thunderstorms (http://news.com.com/2100-7337_3-5179422.html?tag=nefd_top)
My personal opinion, the new screens will not be lcd, but will be oled displays.

OLEDs? hmm....those are still pretty far in the future. I wouldn't count on Apple pioneering them this early on. OLEDs are expensive to manufacture right now, so Apple would be unwise to increase the price of displays that are already pretty pricey.

[choogheem]

OLEDs? hmm....those are still pretty far in the future. I wouldn't count on Apple pioneering them this early on. OLEDs are expensive to manufacture right now, so Apple would be unwise to increase the price of displays that are already pretty pricey.
I'm just kidding about right now - but since everyone else is making grandiose speculations, why not. I do believe that Apple will be the first to use OLED displays (as base displays) though. Granted it will be in the future, just like these proposed updates.

"one of these days" - more like "one of these millenia"

[iPC]

OLEDs? hmm....those are still pretty far in the future. I wouldn't count on Apple pioneering them this early on. OLEDs are expensive to manufacture right now, so Apple would be unwise to increase the price of displays that are already pretty pricey.
That is Apple's M.O. Think the original 5GB iPod. That hdd was not all that proven at the time.

Hindsight 20-20 of course.

It would be nice if Apple had a clue about Supply and Demand though... :rolleyes:

[jsw]

Now, let´s see what they do about this :)

My idea exactly!

See my earlier post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=754702#post754702)...

[jsw]

I'm just kidding about right now - but since everyone else is making grandiose speculations, why not. I do believe that Apple will be the first to use OLED displays (as base displays) though. Granted it will be in the future, just like these proposed updates.

"one of these days" - more like "one of these millenia"

I don't think it's out of the question at all for the next-gen iPods - someone (Kodak? not sure) is already using these in digital camera displays, which are about the same size (more or less) as the iPod displays.

[jsw]

Klaus, Apple make a profit for one reason only, they have over $4 Billion cash in the bank and that makes them a lot of interest. If you discount that interest last quarter, then Apple made a loss of $1 Million.

Well, first of all, that's not too bad, given the technology market. Second, if they can maintain that $1M loss per quarter, they will go broke - ten centuries from now. No, wait, each $1M loss reduces the war chest and therefore interest, so let's see... well, maybe they'll go broke in five centuries.

Even Apple will be able to pump out rev B G5's and G5 laptops by then.

:)

[lazyrighteye]

Yep, I sure did miss the earlier posts abot the Genius bar displays. Thanks. :)

[joco]

Folks,

I would love to see G5 updates, but in the original post, didnt it say, in parens, that power macs will not be in short supply? Doesnt that mean no G5 updates???

[jsw]

Folks,

I would love to see G5 updates, but in the original post, didnt it say, in parens, that power macs will not be in short supply? Doesnt that mean no G5 updates???

Why yes, it did say that.

Perhaps they meant that there'd be no shortages because they're about to flood the channels with 2.6 GHz rev B's!!!

Or not...

[wdlove]

I'm just kidding about right now - but since everyone else is making grandiose speculations, why not. I do believe that Apple will be the first to use OLED displays (as base displays) though. Granted it will be in the future, just like these proposed updates.

"one of these days" - more like "one of these millenia"

What is your prediction for the use of OLED displays by Apple? As long as its a better technology, then proceed.

[365]

Well, first of all, that's not too bad, given the technology market. Second, if they can maintain that $1M loss per quarter, they will go broke - ten centuries from now. No, wait, each $1M loss reduces the war chest and therefore interest, so let's see... well, maybe they'll go broke in five centuries.

Even Apple will be able to pump out rev B G5's and G5 laptops by then.

:)

Yeah but as Neil Young said "It's better to burn out than to fade away" :D

[invaLPsion]

Why yes, it did say that.

Perhaps they meant that there'd be no shortages because they're about to flood the channels with 2.6 GHz rev B's!!!

Or not...

No no no. I think you're on to something... seriously.

They just said that there would not be a dry spell of powermacs, they didn't specify anything else about the powermacs...

[invaLPsion]

If we get any news that Steve will be presenting at the IBM POWER Event then we know for sure that there will be powermac updates.

Just a thought...

[QuiteSure]

Back in Jan my best friend urged me to go ahead and splurge on a refurbed dual 2.0 and 23" display. "Updates aren't coming for months!" he said. I took his advice, saved $1100 and have had the box for nearly 3 months. Glad I took his advice.

[sinisterdesign]

I don't think it's out of the question at all for the next-gen iPods - someone (Kodak? not sure) is already using these in digital camera displays, which are about the same size (more or less) as the iPod displays.

yup, you are correct in saying Kodak:

http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/display/index.jhtml

OLEDs sound very exciting, but i've heard they wear out pretty quickly currently. i have no doubt the technology will get there, though.

did this article already make the rounds here? i haven't seen it. interesting article & a nice little nod to Ive:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3506289.stm

[BWhaler]

For the first time in my Mac-life, I have the means to purchase a top-of-the-line dream Mac. Over the years, I've had to compromise, but not this time. I've been waiting to pull the trigger on the Rev 2 G5 since the morning of Macworld Stevenote. I check rumor sites in the morning, at lunch, and after work. Nothing for months on end!! End the agony!! Give me something to buy!!!

I'm with you. I almost gave up and bought a dell for a couple of grand less earlier this week just out of pure frustration. (the feeling didn't last long, luckily.)

But, while I laughed at reading about you checking three times a day--I do the same thing--I am now at the point where I am thinking screw buying one this spring or summer at all. Just wait for the big bump in the fall.

I know one can always wait and wait and wait for better technology, I have had a clear buying point in mind and I don't really NEED a PM, I just want one. But this waiting is making me re-think the whole idea, sadly.

Of course, if a new PM comes out tomorrow with 3.0 dualies and a new monitor and wireless keyboard, I'll be the first in line. :)

[benpatient]

next thing, you poor people will be discussing seriously the possibility that the communists are trying to take Apple down from inside.


if you want a new LCD, go get a Samsung one. They're better and cheaper than apple's current offerings.

if you want a G5, then get a refurbished 1.8 Dual.

waiting for apple to release a product is like sitting at home on a well-lit table waiting for a dentist to come by and do a root canal...

[mrsebastian]

considering apple's success of late and the all the amazing things they have done with the ipods, minis, and g5s, i expect some more amazing things to come. i wouldn't be surprised to see new imacs, emacs, displays, and updated powermacs!

[carebear427]

I hope they have some new powerbook updates!

[jsw]

considering apple's success of late and the all the amazing things they have done with the ipods, minis, and g5s, i expect some more amazing things to come. i wouldn't be surprised to see new imacs, emacs, displays, and updated powermacs!

Gosh, you're happy! You must not have been following all of these gloom-and-doom "Apple's never going to release a new system" threads...

Either that, or...you're an Apple insider! You know the truth! New Macs are coming! New Macs are coming!

;)

[jsw]

I hope they have some new powerbook updates!

Yeah, man, 'cause looking at your sig, you're in desperate need of a PowerBook....

:)


No, wait, now I see you sold or are selling the others. Sorry. You really do need a new one! ;)

[MacinDoc]

Why yes, it did say that.

Perhaps they meant that there'd be no shortages because they're about to flood the channels with 2.6 GHz rev B's!!!

Or not...

I agree with you, I'm hoping this means that Apple is focusing its manufacturing resources on prepping the Rev B PowerMacs to ship in the first 1/2 of April. I also agree with your speculation about the possibility of 2.6 GHz proc speeds.

AppleInsider's explanation for the poor supply of other models, the filling of edu orders, doesn't make sense to me, as it's a bit early for edu purchases for next school year. Let's keep our fingers crossed that this means that all models will be getting updates shortly...

[yamabushi]

Well if the next PowerMac revision were to get 970fx CPUs clocking at around 2.2/2.5/2.8 and other models were also blessed with the 970fx in the range of 1-2GHz then all of the old stock would be pretty tough to sell even at half the price they are now. At some point either the stock will be completely cleared out of all sales channels or Apple will be forced to eat a hefty loss for old inventory if some good hardware such as this is on the way. Apple can't afford to wait very long or they risk losing new and returning customers in the meantime.

[QuiteSure]

If I was running Apple, to punish the rumor sites and the buyers who delay buying just to get the hot new products that may be coming out any day now, I'd release dual 2.4s as the top of the line in May and then 2.8s as the top of the line in July.

That would truly skank all those who waited for the Rev B.:D

Evil? Yes, but then nobody would ever put off their purchases again.

Steve Jobs' biggest mistake was predicting speeds at 3.0 before the Rev A's were announced.

Well, maybe among others ...

[Naimfan]

Back in Jan my best friend urged me to go ahead and splurge on a refurbed dual 2.0 and 23" display. "Updates aren't coming for months!" he said. I took his advice, saved $1100 and have had the box for nearly 3 months. Glad I took his advice.

Exactly correct if it does what you need. I did the same thing--got a 15" 1.25 Ghz PB. It will do everything I need it to, and do it brilliantly. And with PBs in particular, I doubt we're going to see updates any time soon. I could be wrong, but my feeling is just "so what?" I've got the ability to use the machine NOW and to be more productive NOW. And even when G5 PBs do come out, unless Apple puts in a chip much faster than 1.6 Ghz, I don't think we're going to be all that impressed with the performance advantage until software is optimized for the G5.

Best,

Bob

[Sped]

AppleInsider's explanation for the poor supply of other models, the filling of edu orders, doesn't make sense to me, as it's a bit early for edu purchases for next school year.

I agree with you. When my mother was a high school teacher, they didn't get money until mid-summer in preparation for the next school year. I don't know how colleges works, though. Like a few folks have mentioned, it seems odd that Apple can't forecast a seemingly scheduled / regular event. Even stranger is the fact that in 2 years of being a switcher and visiting sites like this one, this is the first time I have heard of such a "dry spell".

[Sped]

>There's a little more to Apple's Stock price than growth...

Actually Baked, there isn't. A stock's valuation is primarily based on where the market thinks a company will be in 6-12 months. In other words, how will the company change or "grow" in the future. This is not an over-simplification. Only rarely is a company so staid in their particular business that the stock represents its capital valuation without regard to future prospects. And if such a company changed anything about their business model, the market would immediately begin to value that company through stock price.

Apple's recent rise in stock price is indicative of the market seeing new products like the G5 and the mini iPod and reacting positively. However, since the NASDAQ correction in 2001, AAPL (http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=AAPL&t=5y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=) has been essentially trading around $19. The only way for Apple to keep their upward trend is to continue to announce news of future products and sales expectations.

The Money magazine article didn't say Apple is dead. It simply outlined Apples current situation and cautioned that iPods alone will not make the ticker shoot to the moon.

[Sped]

I don't think it's out of the question at all for the next-gen iPods - someone (Kodak? not sure) is already using these in digital camera displays, which are about the same size (more or less) as the iPod displays.

That is true as Discover magazine reported recently. I have seen some military applications of tiny 1 inch square AMOLEDs with 800x600 resolution. Very cool. However, I don't know how effective a screen would be at larger sizes using current technology. The eventual goal of AMOLEDs is to have a big-screen TV no thicker than a sheet of mylar that you can roll up and take with you. Maybe one day your iPod will come with a 16x9 sheet of plastic that unrolls on your tray table in an airline so you can watch movies.

[wdlove]

next thing, you poor people will be discussing seriously the possibility that the communists are trying to take Apple down from inside.


if you want a new LCD, go get a Samsung one. They're better and cheaper than apple's current offerings.

if you want a G5, then get a refurbished 1.8 Dual.

waiting for apple to release a product is like sitting at home on a well-lit table waiting for a dentist to come by and do a root canal...

I had root canal done in January, it was painless.

I'm rather enjoying the wait. I don't want to get an older problematic G5.

[vpalvarez]

This is a positive thing, becasue thius is almost a clear sign that Apple is releasing new products very shortly. The sooner the better

[Sun Baked]

Actually Baked, there isn't. A stock's valuation is primarily based on where the market thinks a company will be in 6-12 months. In other words, how will the company change or "grow" in the future. This is not an over-simplification. Only rarely is a company so staid in their particular business that the stock represents its capital valuation without regard to future prospects. And if such a company changed anything about their business model, the market would immediately begin to value that company through stock price.Sounds like you subscribe to the Enron model of stock price, growth at any cost and the "if the stock price doesn't grow 15% a year -- it's crap" motto.

Just because you think a stock price is stagnant, doesn't mean it's bad.

Heck AT&T/Lucent fragmented in tons of companies in efforts to dump stagnant portions of their companies to focus on growth -- and dumped stability and revenue at the same time.

Bronfman bet the family fortune on getting rid of stagnant stocks in the family portfolio in return for explosive growth and debt -- and destroyed massive portion of their wealth.

So yes, there is more to stock price than growth -- it's called focusing on the health of the company and letting the stock price fall where it may.

Anybody can buy growth with debt and mergers, it takes a different type of CEO to stabilize a company, return it to health, and pay down debt -- though these people typically ran blue chip companies...

[edit -- or they run the corpse of the previous decades growth darling in bankruptcy court.}

[nightcap965]

Disclaimer: I have no fiduciary interest in APPL.

Let us say I have $1,000. What shall I do with it? I can put it in my local savings bank and earn roughly $10 interest in a year. I can sock it away for longer periods and make a bit more. Or I can invest in a company's stock.

One expects a better rate of return from stocks than from savings banks, because a stockholder shares the risk. If the bank goes under, my deposit is insured by FDIC. If Frobozz Flickerwerks goes belly-up, I lose my investment.

If a company is growing, its stock value should be increasing. If a company is big and stable, they should be paying dividends. Either way, I should be making more money on my investment. If the stock price is stagnant and the company isn't paying dividends, it would behoove me to move my money elsewhere. My local savings bank would be better and safer.

This is just the investor's viewpoint. The CEO who manages with "increasing shareholder value" as his primary motive gets a lot of applause at the annual shareholder's meeting, but that's it. The first group you must keep happy is the customer. There are a lot more of them than stockholders. The second group you must keep happy is the employee. Happy employees make better products and provided better service, yielding happy customers, which means more profits, which means happy shareholders.

Me, I'm a customer. I want to spend big bucks at my local Apple Store. So bring on that Rev. B. Dual G5!





Sounds like you subscribe to the Enron model of stock price, growth at any cost and the "if the stock price doesn't grow 15% a year -- it's crap" motto.

Just because you think a stock price is stagnant, doesn't mean it's bad.

Heck AT&T/Lucent fragmented in tons of companies in efforts to dump stagnant portions of their companies to focus on growth -- and dumped stability and revenue at the same time.

Bronfman bet the family fortune on getting rid of stagnant stocks in the family portfolio in return for explosive growth and debt -- and destroyed massive portion of their wealth.

So yes, there is more to stock price than growth -- it's called focusing on the health of the company and letting the stock price fall where it may.

Anybody can buy growth with debt and mergers, it takes a different type of CEO to stabilize a company, return it to health, and pay down debt -- though these people typically ran blue chip companies...

[edit -- or they run the corpse of the previous decades growth darling in bankruptcy court.}

[Coloredtoad26]

Do these boards ever stay on topic??

[aswitcher]

Do these boards ever stay on topic??

They do tend to wander... :D

[Sun Baked]

They do tend to wander... :DWe just wandered over to taking a look at Apple's stability, but their product update stagnation hurt consumers much more than the stock price.

It's doubtful people will be screaming for Jobs' head like they are for Eisner's head -- though it'll get real loud over at Disney when Euro Disney drops a $2.5 Billion debt turd (and the related quarterly losses) onto Disney's accounting books this year.

What else are we supposed to do during these long periods between updates?

[aswitcher]

SNIP

What else are we supposed to do during these long periods between updates?

Speculate. Rumour. Predict.

By the time hardware starts appearing if we do this well we shouldn't be surprised by what appears or what it costs. That suits me because I want to switch and if I had to just ignore macs for 3 more months, waiting for my Mac to appear, I might not switch at all and go buy a dell laptop for half of what I will need to spend to get my shinny new G5PB...

Lets hope that day never comes...

[edenwaith]

I went to an Apple reseller yesterday to pick up a new power adapter for my iBook. To my surprise, they were out of stock. I didn't know so many people needed new power converters. The main point is that the sales clerk mentioned that Apple has been a little slow in getting new inventory, in their attempts to dry out their current channels since it is coming close to the end of a quarter. Point being, perhaps Apple is clearing out channels before sending out new products.

[aswitcher]

I went to an Apple reseller yesterday to pick up a new power adapter for my iBook. SNIP Point being, perhaps Apple is clearing out channels before sending out new products.


Problem is iBook is the last thing they need to update. iMac, eMac, PowerMac and PowerBook ALL need updates. If the iBook jumps again PowerBooks are going to start to look awfully sickly unless they get price slashes. I can see Apple putting that new G4 chip into the iBooks and a G5 into the Powerbooks to put their laptop range back on track, but now new G4s for iBooks before Powerbooks get their bump.

Then again, why hold up one line for another...

[nightcap965]

I wonder is because there are other people are like me, with one power adapter at home and another at work so there's less to schlep around (and less winding and stashing to do. I also keep spare connectors for my Palm and my iPod. (Lazy SOB, ain't I?)



I went to an Apple reseller yesterday to pick up a new power adapter for my iBook. To my surprise, they were out of stock. I didn't know so many people needed new power converters. The main point is that the sales clerk mentioned that Apple has been a little slow in getting new inventory, in their attempts to dry out their current channels since it is coming close to the end of a quarter. Point being, perhaps Apple is clearing out channels before sending out new products.

[djbahdow01]

Do these boards ever stay on topic??

We got a lot on our minds, Things will stay on topic when new computers come out untill then we talk about everything.

[Sped]

Sounds like you subscribe to the Enron model of stock price, growth at any cost and the "if the stock price doesn't grow 15% a year -- it's crap" motto.

Never said that. I was just trying to point out that stock valuation is based on the future. The market predicts where a company will be in 6-12 months.

Just because you think a stock price is stagnant, doesn't mean it's bad.

Never said that either. I didn't make a judgement either way regarding Apple's stock price, but I did point out my opinion as to why the stock has increased in price recently.

So yes, there is more to stock price than growth -- it's called focusing on the health of the company and letting the stock price fall where it may.

You speak of two different things. Whether a CEO focuses on the health of his company or not has nothing to do with how a stock is priced by the market. Stocks are priced by the market based on where the market expects the company to be in the future. Period, end of sentence, good night. Further, a CEO's only goal in life is the price of his company's stock, and again I say period, end of sentence, etc. If Jobs is focusing on the health of his company as you say, then he is doing it to increase stock price. Otherwise, any board of directors worth its salt should sack him.

You have twisted my concern regarding Apples potential inventory drought into your apparent belief that I think Apple is a bad company. I have owned Apple computers since I was in grade school. I love their products. However, facts are facts. The only reason Apple made any money last year was due to investments based on their huge cash hoard. If Apple doesn't start focusing on delivering cutting edge computers in a timely manner and maintaining inventory of said computers, there won't be an Apple left. I am not talking about Apple's demise over the summer, however. I just think a company can only exist so long with decreasing market share, margins, and product availability.

[klaus]

Well, it's the 28th, I checked the apple.com store today, and the offer was still there.
1 hour later, I checked it again, and now it says.. hold on :

"Offer extended to june 26, 2004"

Now how do we have to judge this move? Hardware is delayed again? Or do they just want to give us a nice surplus when new hardware comes out..?

[klaus]

Just checked the other apple online stores for the memory promotion

US apple store :

Till june 26, promotion valid on entire Powermac, iMac, Xserve line


UK,Belgium, France, etc (Probably entire europe) :

Till 8 may, promotion only valid on current models, each model is listed


Personally, I don't think we should pay a lot of attention to this deal, even if it has been extended or not. It's just a promotion...

[aswitcher]

Just checked the other apple online stores for the memory promotion

US apple store :

Till june 26, promotion valid on entire Powermac, iMac, Xserve line


and what 2 days after than WWDC starts...yep a sign that no new Powermacs or new iMacs until WWDC. Seems right to me.


SNIP
Personally, I don't think we should pay a lot of attention to this deal, even if it has been extended or not. It's just a promotion...

Sure but the timing with WWDC is right on.

I think this is a good sign that its 3Ghz G5PMs at WWDC.
Hopefully new form factor G5 iMacs :)

Steve wants to personally do a big show and dance about this stuff and maximise on Apples current wave of interest...

[djbahdow01]

They are definately trying to get rid of stock. New Promotion, Buy a Powermac G5 and a 23" Cinema Screen and get $500 off. Pretty sure they are now trying to get things gone quick.
Also ending on June 26th, but they don't give any speeds for the PM's just like in the RAM promo, so who knows could give new computers in the upcoming weeks, March 30th not sure with this new promotion.

[Sun Baked]

Further, a CEO's only goal in life is the price of his company's stock, and again I say period, end of sentence, etc. If Jobs is focusing on the health of his company as you say, then he is doing it to increase stock price. Otherwise, any board of directors worth its salt should sack him.Sorry sped, that's not the only reason a CEO is there -- anybody can increase a stocks price. Not all CEOs can manage a companies ability to pay debt, especially during a market downturn. Nor do all CEOs have a coherent vision or where the company should be in 10 years, most are too focused on quarterly growth.

Funny how shareholders always want maximized growth, and the CEOs give it to them -- when managed growth is usually a better long term solution.

[paulsecic]

This seems like *good* news to me. There's no earthly reason that apple would be unable to supply emacs, imacs, etc. (machines that have been out for months and months with old CPUs) unless they were no longer producing them. And the only reason that they wouldn't be producing them is if they were ramping up production of new models. Right?

edit: never mind. just saw the actual article. It will happen because apple will be filling large educational orders.
I'm not buying anything until major upgrades!

[Sped]

anybody can increase a stocks price.

If you really think that anyone can increase stock price, then I don't think you've ever owned a stock.

[Sun Baked]

If you really think that anyone can increase stock price, then I don't think you've ever owned a stock.I've got a couple hundred thousand share sitting in my desk, and I know for a fact that anybody can pump up a stocks price (Since I've seen a stock "Pump and Dumped" firsthand, and have the corpse of the company sitting in my garage to prove it.)

And I've seen way to many companies rise and explode (Rally's, Boston Market, Enron, etc.) to know that a companies ability to meet debt payments is probably more important than the run-up in price -- ask people that lost everything in those companies if they'd rather have had managed growth within the debt load or the explosive growth in stock price.

And for some strange reason, it seems like Donald Trump is going to be fired from Trump Hotels & Casinos for inability to manage debt... :rolleyes:

[MacRAND]

Forgive me, Apple, I knocked the iPod Mini and its $249 price tag for 4GB memory when it first came out, comparing it to the iPod offering.
I made a mistake, worse, I voiced an opinion purely based on data (I was an idiot) without first examining one in person (nobody was taking them out of the box so you could hold one at first) and checking out the competition (COSTCO, Ultimate Electronics, Fry's, etc.).

Quia peccavi nimis cagitatione, verbo, et opere -
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.*
1. iPod Mini is amazingly small and well-built. A Runner/Jogger's dream.
2. Prices and style of the (PC) competition really suck and do not come close (except some are radios and voice recorders, duh? So what!)
3. Compared to regular iPod, their size makes them very attractive, and the $249 price is more than fair. Amazingly portable.
4. Torn between iPod Mini and iPod 30gb. What to do, what to do?

Apple has really done an excellent job of design and providing value...again.
*I have errored (sinned) in thought, word and deed - through my fault, through my fault, through my most grevious fault.

[Namacste]

ask people that lost everything in those companies if they'd rather have had managed growth within the debt load or the explosive growth in stock price.

First of all, define "managed". Do you mean a company that meets all of its interest payments, a company that has minimal debt, or a company that has an appropriate mix of financial instruments (both debt and equity) according to its requirements?

Your blanket statements are troublesome. Of course a company that can manage its debt is preferable to one that can't. But you're dealing with a huge grey area here. There are a lot of mitigating factors: i.e. fierce competition, the market environment that would make a "managed" debt structure difficult. Often times the stock market will reward a company based on its prospects. Speculation is tricky, though. But if you get out soon enough, you make yourself a tidy profit. Such an investor would not care a whit about debt. Just because this type of short term trading hasn't happened recently doesn't mean it will never happen again. If there's a way to make money in it, people will continue to do it.

So if your a conservative investor, you'll look at that balance sheet and cash flow statement. When you see that a company is barely making its interest payments then red flags should go up in your head.

[nightcap965]

Ego te absolvo, my son.

<grin>


Quia peccavi nimis cagitatione, verbo, et opere -
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.*

[uzombie]

Ok. Rebates are calculated model for keeping money.

But I am wondering, why does Apple have to wait for some "show" to release product.
"Hey Steve?"
"Hey what?"
"Um, look, can we hold up production to say, um, Labor Day?"
"Why?"
"WELL, its Labor Day, and heck, the staff has been hard at work with the new packaging and.."
"Hmm, you are right! Lets have a picnic theme and announce the 'World's Fastest Desktop' with potato salad and corn-on-the-cob! It's a new kernel right?"
(schlep laughs at Steve affable humor..much like Peter from Family Guy)
"Yeah, let's do it. That way, we can rid our exisiting inventory to almost nothing! And units won't ship till November! Just in time for the holidays!"
(calls IBM in Fishkill..."hey, can you get 3.2Ghz...hhm...you don't say...you think? really! Cool!")
"Oh, there is a sale at Nordstroms...they have black shirts for $50 on sale..."

I'm not buying a G5 now. if I have to wait till WWDC, I can wait till they get the bugs outta that model...likely the 2005 mustang will be out by the time I see a G5...dual 3.0ghz...
;)

[Mac-Xpert]

With the apple store now saying this: $500 save on a G5 - 23 inch HD screen Combo. Between March 28, 2004, and June 26, 2004 (http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/brilliant_savings.html) I think we won't see anything tomorrow. It's kind of funny because first the rumors said "January 26 we will see Powermac updates) and then "No new Powermacs in February" then came "Powermac update: March 23 / 30" And now we can expect to see "No new Powermacs in April" I guess.

Hopefully they will announce those 3 Ghz machines at WWDC if nothing happens before that, because I think everybody will be very disappointed if they will only come up with max dual 2.4’s at WWDC. Then everybody here will start screaming: "Jobs is a liar. He promised 3 Ghz within a year"

[wdlove]

With the apple store now saying this: $500 save on a G5 - 23 inch HD screen Combo. Between March 28, 2004, and June 26, 2004 (http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/brilliant_savings.html) I think we won't see anything tomorrow. It's kind of funny because first the rumors said "January 26 we will see Powermac updates) and then "No new Powermacs in February" then came "Powermac update: March 23 / 30" And now we can expect to see "No new Powermacs in April" I guess.

Hopefully they will announce those 3 Ghz machines at WWDC if nothing happens before that, because I think everybody will be very disappointed if they will only come up with max dual 2.4’s at WWDC. Then everybody here will start screaming: "Jobs is a liar. He promised 3 Ghz within a year"

That is a very tempting offer. Thank you for posting the link Mac-Xpert! ;) With the problems that I have heard about Rev. A, my plan is to wait. Really wasn't planning to purchase at this time.

That is amazing that my prediction may actually be true. Now if Steve will just follow through with the 3.0 dual at WWDC.

[Mac-Xpert]

That is a very tempting offer. Thank you for posting the link Mac-Xpert! ;) With the problems that I have heard about Rev. A, my plan is to wait. Really wasn't planning to purchase at this time.

That is amazing that my prediction may actually be true. Now if Steve will just follow through with the 3.0 dual at WWDC.
I don't care about the offer, My boss is paying anyway :p But I would love to have a dual 3 Ghz though. But I would have gone for a 2.4 tomorrow as well!

[MacRAND]

Ego te absolvo, my son.
<grin>Gratsia, Pater RC. ;)

[Sun Baked]

First of all, define "managed". Do you mean a company that meets all of its interest payments, a company that has minimal debt, or a company that has an appropriate mix of financial instruments (both debt and equity) according to its requirements?So by managed growth, I mean a company that can meet it's debt service, not one of the companies that is hoping it can meet it's debt service before the bill comes due -- because they're in a speculative market and "think" growing fast enough through mergers & acquisitions. In that case they usually start paying silly numbers for new revenue and raising red flags.

But even in a speculative market there's usually somebody who cares about the long term, the customer.

[MacRAND]

WARNING: If you do not understand, or cannot read, all directions, cautions and warnings, do not use this product.
Funny how the above warning applies to the large version of my Tar PRECISELY. And the MILK is...
a. Shamrock
b. Borden's
c. Carnation
d. Desert Market brand
e. Ewe milk (for lambs)
f. Fry's brand (to eat with Hopi fry bread)
g. Mother's milk (leche) Yum!
h. none of the above
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12622&stc=1 :o :rolleyes: :) :cool:
MILK...all gone! :mad: :confused: :pYou been good!

[Namacste]

So by managed growth, I mean a company that can meet it's debt service, not one of the companies that is hoping it can meet it's debt service before the bill comes due...

It's such an oversimplified perspective that I can't disagree with you.

There is no "hope" either it does or it does not. Banks & financiers routinely assess a company's ability to make its interest payments. If banks don't see clear evidence that the company will make the payments, then guess what? They don't get the loan. But does it mean no one will offer the loan? Of course not, some VCs specialize in financing risky companies (with several conditions of course). If they're short term investors, they're banking on explosive growth.

Making a blanket statement that managed growth is preferable to explosive growth is just plain wrong. Does Mike Miliken ring a (ma) bell?

[Sun Baked]

If they're short term investors, they're banking on explosive growth.

Making a blanket statement that managed growth is preferable to explosive growth is just plain wrong. Does Mike Miliken ring a (ma) bell?If they're customers, they're probably not in it for the short term.

But I can see why short term investors would rather care more about the money they make than a customer being serviced.

Buy a car, and who cares that the car company won't be there at the end of the warranty period. Didn't hurt the short term Daewoo investors one bit when they pulled out of the US market during the bankruptcy.

So I won't bother arguing that managed growth is better for the customer, than explosive growth when I'm talking to an speculative investor that only thinks in the short term.

[Namacste]

So I won't bother arguing that managed growth is better for the customer, than explosive growth when I'm talking to an speculative investor that only thinks in the short term.

Granted nobody wants to be the person that bought a car a month before the company goes out of business. But when was the last time someone thought: "I need a new car, I wonder how Toyota is managing its debt lately?"

It might be that managed growth is "better" for the customer in the long term. But as a consumer I'd be more concerned about quality, customer service, reliability...

[invaLPsion]

Let's not write off powermac updates till WWDC guys. There are still some reports that are optimistic, namely from MacOSRumors and Macrumors.

You guys trust Arn, right? :p

[Sun Baked]

Granted nobody wants to be the person that bought a car a month before the company goes out of business. But when was the last time someone thought: "I need a new car, I wonder how Toyota is managing its debt lately?"

It might be that managed growth is "better" for the customer in the long term. But as a consumer I'd be more concerned about quality, customer service, reliability...Remember Apple before Jobs came back, they lost quite a few sales due to people think the company's going out of business sale would happen before the end of the warranty -- even though the three concerns you named have not been addressed yet.

[aswitcher]

Let's not write off powermac updates till WWDC guys. There are still some reports that are optimistic, namely from MacOSRumors and Macrumors.

You guys trust Arn, right? :p

I think PMG5 updates will in the least be announced at WWDC along with specs and some demos of performance against the PC world. They may take 3 months to actually ship though.

Steve could cop out and wait for Paris in hopes that any technical problems holding back the G5-3GHz are resolved by then but that would be a bit gutless...

[invaLPsion]

I think PMG5 updates will in the least be announced at WWDC along with specs and some demos of performance against the PC world. They may take 3 months to actually ship though.

Steve could cop out and wait for Paris in hopes that any technical problems holding back the G5-3GHz are resolved by then but that would be a bit gutless...

I think that a release at Paris would be great, in fact, that's probably what will happen.

I think this because MacWorld Paris is usually held in mid-late September, but now it was forwarded to the last day of August, conveniently before the end of summer. This way Steve can release the powermacs in summer therefore still keeping his promise.

[aswitcher]

I think that a release at Paris would be great, in fact, that's probably what will happen.

I think this because MacWorld Paris is usually held in mid-late September, but now it was forwarded to the last day of August, conveniently before the end of summer. This way Steve can release the powermacs in summer therefore still keeping his promise.

Good spot. So Paris end of August, very suspicious...

[wdlove]

I think PMG5 updates will in the least be announced at WWDC along with specs and some demos of performance against the PC world. They may take 3 months to actually ship though.

Steve could cop out and wait for Paris in hopes that any technical problems holding back the G5-3GHz are resolved by then but that would be a bit gutless...

Anything is possible, but WWDC is such a big event that I can't imagine Steve passing up that opportunity. There are bound to be big announcements made.

[Sped]

Remember Apple before Jobs came back, they lost quite a few sales due to people think the company's going out of business sale would happen before the end of the warranty

I don't mean to be on your case Baked, I just like talking to you although I am skepticle that you own any stock.

Apple lost sales for many, many reasons before Jobs came back. Also, the argument could be made that Apple is still losing sales as evidenced by declining market share.

[Urdam]

I agree