Mac OS X 10.4: Tiger [Archive] - Page 2

Mr_Ed

Mar 31, 2004, 09:40 AM

We all have our own reasons to dislike Microsoft, but to hate them "just because they're Microsoft" is not a valid reason in my opinion.

I don't hate them "just because they are Microsoft" or "just because they are successful." I develop software for a living. I do not mind that they are financially successful, I mind that they got there by selling sub-standard software and using dirty tactics to beat their competitors down. The fact that they have been so successful, has had other implications in the area of user expectations of software, and consequently, in the overall quality of software produced by those in my industry. The average PC user today truly believes that having an application (or OS) crash and/or lose your work once in a while is "OK" and that it is "just the way it is." A large part of the software industry out there seems quite happy to "oblige" and provide the users with everything from unintuitive user experiences right down to unreliable operation of applications.

I'm not saying that a sizeable, complex piece of software can be 100% bug free, but I know I have had a hand in developing critical control/management software that is expected to run 24/7 without crashing and without leaking memory like a sieve. That stuff was far more complex than a word processor, spreadsheet, email client, messenger client, photo app., or music app. will ever be. It's not "OK" for these things to crash, and it's even worse for any of these crashes to cause your computer to "lock up", crash, or otherwise force you to "reboot" in order to restore stability.

Make a "better mouse trap" and get filthy rich, and I'll be the first one in line to cheer for you. I cannot cheer for M$.

zot72

Mar 31, 2004, 09:54 AM

But I'm thinking that Exon/Esso/Standard Oil might have a problem with Apple putting a Tiger in their Tank.

When was the last time you thought you were at an Exxon station buying gas, but only later you discovered you were actually at an Apple Store buying an OS upgrade?

Soire

Mar 31, 2004, 10:10 AM

When was the last time you thought you were at an Exxon station buying gas, but only later you discovered you were actually at an Apple Store buying an OS upgrade?

Ha! Ba-zing.

If this goes off as planned, I can see some pretty heavy links to Hobbes from "Calvin and Hobbes". I get the feeling that a lot of Apple users identify with that sort of witty and fun humor. Hobbes could wind up being the mascot for the whole Apple OS. I could actually see them buying up the rights and running with this idea... :o

hayesk

Mar 31, 2004, 10:14 AM

Copland

Copland was the ill-fated MacOS 8 that was canned. It was the one that had Pre-emptive multitasking and Memory Protection for non-graphical tasks only.

Gershwin was to be MacOS 9 with full PMT and MP.

However, those were canned, Apple bought NeXT, and gave us updated System 7 OSes for MacOS 8 and 9 while they developed Rhapsody, later to be MacOS X.

A good choice, IMHO. Although there are a lot of those stubborn MacOS 9 users today that would have really liked Gershwin.

carebear427

Mar 31, 2004, 10:14 AM

My suggestions for the new name are: the illusive snow hare or the illusive snow leopard.

Thank you for your time and energy.

Windowlicker

Mar 31, 2004, 10:22 AM

Will this update, 10.4, cost users $$$ or is it free?

what do you think?? 10.2 wasn't free.. neither was 10.3. I don't think it's gonna be any different this time

Toe

Mar 31, 2004, 10:22 AM

If this goes off as planned, I can see some pretty heavy links to Hobbes from "Calvin and Hobbes". I get the feeling that a lot of Apple users identify with that sort of witty and fun humor. Hobbes could wind up being the mascot for the whole Apple OS. I could actually see them buying up the rights and running with this idea... :o
As I understand it, the author of Calvin and Hobbes (Bill Watterson) was pretty opposed to "selling out" for anyone. All those images of Calvin peeing on a Chevy and whatnot are unauthorized knockoffs.

Then again, Calvin and Hobbes certainly do think different, so maybe it's a perfect match....

DaBuzz

Mar 31, 2004, 10:50 AM

They didn't trademark "Lion"?

"OS X 10.9 - Lion - King of the Jungle" :D

cubist

Mar 31, 2004, 11:13 AM

It shouldn't be as the Pzkpfw VI "Tiger". People will fear it as soon as they catch a view of it or as they get to know it's somewhere near :)

Hey, I hadn't even noticed the tank connection. But isn't the Jaguar tank a fairly recent model? FTM, didn't the Panther come after the Tiger? Maybe we're going backwards... Make a great commercial anyway!

Mac Dummy

Mar 31, 2004, 11:16 AM

I'm wondering if Apple will offer a discount on this new OS for owners of new Macs running Panther (since the Mac World Expo in January). However, if Apple offered discounts to Panther users since 10.3 came out in October that would be cool, too! :) I was also wonder what would this new OS would include in terms of applications and functionality? Are there going to be any really cool new apps? One app, I would like to see Apple do is some sort of financial software (like Quicken for Mac, but better) that could handle investments and retirement planning too.

I guess if "Tiger" is a pay to play version only it'll probably cost the same as every version of OS X before it.

mazola

Mar 31, 2004, 11:18 AM

10-1:* Receiving poorly
10-2:* Receiving well
10-3:* Stop transmitting
10-4:* OK, message received
10-5:* Relay message
10-6:* Busy, stand by
10-7:* Out of service, going off air

--maz

cubist

Mar 31, 2004, 11:24 AM

I dunno about this whole spatial thing. ... I say all this, because I have trained people to use computers, and "folders" are the hardest thing for them to pick up, as far as I can tell. They are like "what is a 'folder'?", and they never know "where" they put anything. I think this is because they don't expect something that is inherently non-spatial to behave as spatial.

Good. I've noticed that some people just don't understand hierarchical folders (spatial), whereas some other people love hierarchical designs and nest them twelve levels deep.

I was thinking we could have some kind of "twisted hierarchy" where it's locally hierarchical (nested) but actually, it's a network of links.

My recent documents -> Work on the Blipper job -> C source files -> Notes on the Blipper job -> Jobs -> Work on the Foonly job ... etc.

wdlove

Mar 31, 2004, 11:43 AM

I've said months ago that I would love to see the code name Tiger used. If not 10.4 then in the future. I think that the coat is awesome! :cool:

Zepia

Mar 31, 2004, 11:55 AM

They didn't trademark "Lion"?

"OS X 10.9 - Lion - King of the Jungle" :D

That's never gonna happen...lions DO NOT live in Jungles.
;)

DaBuzz

Mar 31, 2004, 12:09 PM

That's never gonna happen...lions DO NOT live in Jungles.
;)

You're right..."King of the Beasts"!

And of course the requisite puns..."Announcing the Pride of Apple - Lion, King of the OSes" :D
"The OS King" (of course, Disney might sue)
Maybe a "Lion King" tie-in...see the play, get Mac OS X Lion! :D

DaBuzz

Mar 31, 2004, 12:13 PM

why dont they name it, garfield, or morris, or the [hello kitty] operating system?

Or Sylvester...or even "Puddy Tat"! LOL

DaBuzz

Mar 31, 2004, 12:20 PM

Naw... I think the next series will be birds, man... tacky, evocative "great bird" names... so you can "soar with the new OS..."

And I think they'll stick with the "X" (cos, hasn't it been referred to more often as "Oh-Ess-Ex" rather than "Oh-Ess-Ten"...? So perhaps it will look something like this:

OS X 11.0 Hawk
OS X 11.1 Falcon
OS X 11.2 Eagle
OS X 11.3 Condor
...etc...

(So we'd say something like: "Oh-Ess-Ex Eleven Condor"...). Has a nice ring to it, doncha think? Getting awfully long though... ;)

gawd... don't I have anything better to do?? :D :D :D

peace,

tribalogical

When the rumor mill is this slow, might as well make the best of it and have fun with the thread!

Maybe OS X1 Hawk (like Extensis did with Suitcase)? :D

SiliconAddict

Mar 31, 2004, 12:25 PM

Come on everyone. Tigers rock.

Que pasa tourist dudes. (http://holyjoe.org/wallpaper/tiger.jpg)

I mean just look at this guy.... he's a happening tiger. He's saying hi to his fans.
:cool: What better mascot do you need for Apple?!?! ;)

fishtank22

Mar 31, 2004, 01:16 PM

Apparently, Apple is concidering the following as the logo for 10.4

http://s95129146.onlinehome.us/tiger.jpg
"Tiger"

jsw

Mar 31, 2004, 01:33 PM

Apparently, Apple is concidering the following as the logo for 10.4

http://s95129146.onlinehome.us/tiger.jpg
"Tiger"

I think many of the readers here are too young to remember this pup!

:)

Toe

Mar 31, 2004, 02:08 PM

Que pasa tourist dudes. (http://holyjoe.org/wallpaper/tiger.jpg)

DO NOT FEED THE TIGERS!

Really... Don't open the window!

...and don't stick that baby out the window either!

PretendPCuser

Mar 31, 2004, 02:31 PM

Tabby!!

jsw

Mar 31, 2004, 02:52 PM

screw Tiger, I want OSX Liger

http://www.scumpa.com/~art/king-richards-sep02/liger-med.jpg

Now, that's a big effing cat ;)

You know, every picture I've seen of Ligers shows them to have lots of excess fat.

So, perhaps, "Liger" would be a better name for the next version of Windows.

macdong

Mar 31, 2004, 03:04 PM

like a guy once said, M$ is good at making average software and excellent at selling them.

I don't hate them "just because they are Microsoft" or "just because they are successful." I develop software for a living. I do not mind that they are financially successful, I mind that they got there by selling sub-standard software and using dirty tactics to beat their competitors down. The fact that they have been so successful, has had other implications in the area of user expectations of software, and consequently, in the overall quality of software produced by those in my industry. The average PC user today truly believes that having an application (or OS) crash and/or lose your work once in a while is "OK" and that it is "just the way it is." A large part of the software industry out there seems quite happy to "oblige" and provide the users with everything from unintuitive user experiences right down to unreliable operation of applications.

I'm not saying that a sizeable, complex piece of software can be 100% bug free, but I know I have had a hand in developing critical control/management software that is expected to run 24/7 without crashing and without leaking memory like a sieve. That stuff was far more complex than a word processor, spreadsheet, email client, messenger client, photo app., or music app. will ever be. It's not "OK" for these things to crash, and it's even worse for any of these crashes to cause your computer to "lock up", crash, or otherwise force you to "reboot" in order to restore stability.

Make a "better mouse trap" and get filthy rich, and I'll be the first one in line to cheer for you. I cannot cheer for M$.

DaBuzz

Mar 31, 2004, 03:13 PM

You know, every picture I've seen of Ligers shows them to have lots of excess fat.

So, perhaps, "Liger" would be a better name for the next version of Windows.

Nah...how about something that the tiger preys upon?

"The tiger attacks a variety of prey, mainly deer, antelopes, pigs and buffalo."

Buffalo...that's a good name for the next version of Windows. Another slow-witted, herding animal pretty much preyed upon by any carnivore (much like longhorns...lol)

Man, slow rumor day...why isn't there a new thread about the rumor that Office 2004 has gone into manufacturing?

timmyOtool

Mar 31, 2004, 03:21 PM

It just hope its the cat's meow. :p

I apologize, that was wrong. :o

timmyOtool

Mar 31, 2004, 03:24 PM

sorry Ligers you just plain deformed

iLilana

Mar 31, 2004, 03:24 PM

how about

'Serval'

Mr_Ed

Mar 31, 2004, 03:31 PM

Well, I think everyone agrees we will eventually run out of 'cat like' names. Why not jump into the realm of the freaky, but keep a 'predatory' aspect to it?

I suggest: Chupacabra (http://www.oftm.com/chupa.html) :D

MetallicPenguin

Mar 31, 2004, 03:59 PM

I like the name Tiger I just hope that if it is the name it would be the last before XI or whatever. I've been reading a lot about tigers lately and it would also be cool if some of the profit for the os would go towards tigers, etc. They are almost all gone (besides the ones in zoos and stuff). But that won't happen :D

iChan

Mar 31, 2004, 06:20 PM

Has anyone heard anything about the "piles" concept that we were told may be included in panther but wasnt? i always thought it was a good idea. also, what about the 3D desktop unveiled recently by sun? if you havent seen the little movie, you should, i cant remember where i found it

here:

http://wwws.sun.com/software/looking_glass/

iChan

Mar 31, 2004, 06:23 PM

i am sick to death about the 3d desktop idea... that video was merely a tech demo, there are very few actually usefull ideas and nothing that macosx can't do right now... it just isn't practical... when we all buy all of our music through digital downloads, will we still want to browse our "cd" collection? and not by the cover either, but by the CD label itself! give me a break. a large % of CD's don't even have meaningful prints on them... that is what the cover is for!

iChan

Mar 31, 2004, 06:25 PM

Yeah, I've thought the same thing from time to time. Eventually the will get to 10.9, and then there's no place to go. OSX XP maybe. :D

i wonder is apple will ever drop the "mac" from it's name and simply call it's OS "OSX"... actually... i think that name is already taken.

BTW, i was only thinking out loud, hope apple never rids the Mac name... it;s religious

iChan

Mar 31, 2004, 06:30 PM

i don't quite understand. you CAN afford a $2,000-$3,000+ laptop, but CAN NOT afford a $129 OS? am i correct on this?

he prob means he does not want "waste" money on an upgrade when he would be getting the upgrade for 'free' with a new comp.

iChan

Mar 31, 2004, 06:35 PM

You're forgetting:
Windows 98 Second Edition
Windows ME

Not to menton that MS upgrades are twice what Apple's are.

what? you're cruising for a bruising

iChan

Mar 31, 2004, 06:39 PM

You mean Apple software such as Safari, Mail etc etc won't run on old OSXs, however, 3rd party software normally does.

I don't know of many software products that specifically require OSX 10.3.

safari, ichatAV...

iChan

Mar 31, 2004, 06:41 PM

I'll purchase 10.4 as soon as I can order it. I have done that with each OS since 10.2. I love being able to show off the newest NON-WINDOWS features to every Windows user I know. I just hope I will be able to get it preinstalled on my Powerbook G5. One of those is going to be my next major Mac purchase...now only if one of them would come out...

it's true, every new version wil hopefully bring about many new (genuinely, undebatably useful) toys. eg. Expose.

Also, i love apple's subdued sense of flair... like the cube transition.

more of the same please.

iChan

Mar 31, 2004, 06:45 PM

I thought we knew many months ago that Tiger was the expected next name in the series. I've been calling it that all along, and I must have heard it somewhere.

I'd like to know which iLife apps it will include.

And I wonder if the database-based-Finder has arrived.

I can't imagine any improvement that would change my life as much as Exposé did.

interesting point... but i feel that ilife has stopped becoming something that is "included' with an OS... it is a separate entity now. just like MS office is.

iChan

Mar 31, 2004, 06:46 PM

Apple will come up with a nice look for it. It doesn't look too terrible in my quick and dirty mock up. Please ignore the furry edges - they were a whim and didn't turn out right. Unless you like them. ;)

doesn't that look a helluva lot like jagwire?

iChan

Mar 31, 2004, 06:48 PM

I'll go on record - I like the furry edges. I see what you mean about it not working quite right in the ps, but the idea of furry stuff should make a marketer drool. Imagine a box with faux fur on the outside.

(insert alpha males "Furry! But that won't make a G5 Powerbook run!")

(insert sensitive types "Come on, Apple is trying to appeal to women!")

Basically, I just a furry box would make people want to touch it. Making people want to touch your product can't be bad. Think ipod mini.

tha tis such a cheesy idea and would degrade the apple brand as a whole. gee, i sure wouldn't like you on apple's marketing team, or any for that matter.

iChan

Mar 31, 2004, 06:51 PM

Ocelot orLYNX (my choice) is my preference. Tiger sounds a bit Pu**y to me.

I get my coat :D

a lynx cat Is a panther... they are just named differently in different parts of the world... i think?

iChan

Mar 31, 2004, 06:52 PM

well, maybe it's time to call it a dog instead. Wait, hang on, maybe not… :rolleyes:

I'd like to see apple getting rid of the whole animal thing full stop IMO.

iChan

Mar 31, 2004, 06:53 PM

you made my day.

?

iChan

Mar 31, 2004, 07:19 PM

OSX 10.4 Cougar?
me like

iChan

Mar 31, 2004, 07:23 PM

Maybe MAC users forget about the concept of discounts since they deal with prices controlled by Cupertino, but full XP can be had for $145 with a hardware purchase.

http://www.centralcomputer.com/emerchant/itemdetail.asp?item=ZMS-WI03Q-SC

$144.95

shoo! loser... what is a "MAC" User? who uses media access controllers as their OS?

iChan

Mar 31, 2004, 07:27 PM

well Mac OS X can be had for $0.00 with a computer purchase.

TANSTAAFL!!!!!!!

iChan

Mar 31, 2004, 07:35 PM

"Tiger"?

But Java 1.5 is codenamed "Tiger"...

And do any of you remember reading this at The Register:
Link (http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:tJo9xoeRRPwJ:www.theregister.co.uk/content/1/11493.html+Microsoft+tiger+beta++OS&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)

hey... how do you get that neat highlight thing to work?

adamjay

Mar 31, 2004, 07:49 PM

there are very few actually usefull ideas and nothing that macosx can't do right now...

the difference in my computer's performance from 10.2 to 10.3 was 15% overall (Xbench). if 10.4 only gives me another 10% increase in GUI performance, then hell yea i'll pay you $129. That's like upgrading an 867mhz to 1gz Most users didnt upgrade to panther so much because of Expose and Fast User Switching, but the performance boost was well worth the premium.

iLilana

Mar 31, 2004, 08:36 PM

or even Lemur... oh wait. Thats a monkey. But its a monkey that looks like a cat.

Toe

Mar 31, 2004, 08:37 PM

i wonder is apple will ever drop the "mac" from it's name and simply call it's OS "OSX"...
But then we could never have something revolutionary in an OS Eleven. Or OSXI (is that pronounced "oh-sexy?"). Or OS//. Or OS 22/2.

Hm. Maybe you're right... maybe there's no techno-cool way to say eleven. Or twelve for that matter.

But if they had something really radical (like X was to 9), maybe they could borrow an old name again, and call it Mac2. Or OS2. IBM isn't using it anymore.

Doctor Q

Mar 31, 2004, 09:42 PM

or even Lemur... oh wait. Thats a monkey. But its a monkey that looks like a cat.My stuffed toy lemur named "Robert" (as in Robert E. Lemur) would love to have an Apple operating system named after him. Robert would make a fine Mac OS mascot. He looks like this:

http://www.stuffedark.com/images/lemurpp.jpg

timmyOtool

Mar 31, 2004, 10:10 PM

I like the sound of lynx alot. And yes they are different than a panther.

maxterpiece

Mar 31, 2004, 10:20 PM

I got to wondering why so many people replied to a post that had virtually no new information.... To summarize: OS 10.4 is coming at some point... we don't know when. It is called tiger (yippee), Safari will be upgraded but we have no idea how. Well that's news! I guess everyone tuned in to macrumors because new hardware was rumored to be released today then felt like they hadda comment on something!

Krevnik

Mar 31, 2004, 10:40 PM

As I've already told Arn, there is a little bit more info on that article, not a lot, but still:

.The Internal build of Tiger is 8A85(the "A" means its still on Alpha)

. And that it uses Safari v133 as oposed to v125.1 that 10.3.3 uses

And that's all :)

Okay, there is one thing that REALLY bothers me about people making assumptions in the build numbers: The letter means JACK SQUAT. The rumor people placing importance on the letter are placing the importance solely because they don't know how build numbers work.

If the whole A = Alpha, B = Beta was true, apparently we were sold a beta OS in the form of 10.3, and should request a refund. 4Kxx builds apparently represent some sort of 'Kappa' series of builds, and Jaguar/Puma let to some really odd build series like Mu and Nu... (Please realize this paragraph is solely designed to show that the assumptions are more than a little off-base)

The letters in the build numbers are solely to allow the developers organize the builds in a fashion that makes it easier for testing. A simple breakdown of build numbers are as follows:

8A85 splits into 3 parts: 8, A, 85
8 is the major build number. In this case, it represents the 10.4 build branch (7 was panther, 6 was puma, 5 was 10.0.x, and 4 was the beta). A is the branch ID for the build. These branches represent major changes in parts of the code, such as certain features being added onto the build that would cause it to become a new branch. 85 is simply the build number in the branch. This number tells you how many revisions they have gone through, attempting to revise the code for the branch.

Granted, the build *IS* an alpha, but the A in the build number doesn't tell you that.

macdong

Mar 31, 2004, 10:44 PM

4Kxx builds apparently represent some sort of 'Kappa' series of builds,

kappa = cucumber

jsw

Mar 31, 2004, 11:00 PM

TANSTAAFL!!!!!!!

Ah, a Heinlein fan. You know, I think he would have liked Macs.

SiliconAddict

Mar 31, 2004, 11:14 PM

a lynx cat Is a panther... they are just named differently in different parts of the world... i think?

Nope

Lynx.....

Awimoway

Apr 1, 2004, 12:01 AM

Nope

Lynx.....

So it's a bobcat?

simX

Apr 1, 2004, 12:47 AM

try installing panther on a partition that does not already have a Mac OS installed on it. Mine doesn't let me. I don't think I have a weird version of it either.

Actually, you DO have a weird version of Panther. The boxed retail version of Panther allows installs on any partition, whether or not it has a previous version of Mac OS X on it or not.

I don't get what the point is of saying that Apple only sells upgrades to the Mac OS because every Mac has always come with a previous version. Fine, so your original Mac OS pricing was included in your Mac, and now you're just paying $129 upgrades. Or fine, you got the Mac OS for free with your Mac, and now you're paying $129 for each full version.

The point is, it doesn't make a damn bit of difference whether you call each new version of Mac OS X an upgrade or a full version. Apple used to offer discounts on retail boxes of the Classic Mac OS if you bought the previous version. That's what people mean by "upgrades". Apple doesn't do this anymore. So when people complain about having to purchase another "full version" of Mac OS X, they mean "not discounted". When you challenge them and say they're purchasing upgrades, you're just debating about semantics, while skirting around the real issue.

safari, ichatAV...

Maybe you didn't notice (http://www.apple.com/safari/download/), but Safari is available for Jaguar too. Oh, and look (http://www.apple.com/ichat/), you're wrong about iChat AV, too! Game over, try again.

Whotheheck

Apr 1, 2004, 05:11 AM

It's funny, I know that is true that there probably quite a number of webpages out there which don't work properly on a Mac, but over last five years or so I've run into only two (!) webpages which required me to use Windows. And that was back in in old days of OS 9.
There might be some GUI oddities here or there, or you have to use Safari instead of Mozilla occasionally (only Safari uses Java 1.4, Mozilla uses only Java 1.3, since the Java 1.4 API is writtten in Cocoa and very poorly documented and Mozilla is written in Carbon).

you're lucky. 2 website I go to regulalry (the one I use to fill out my reports for work and the jay leno website) don't work properly on a mac. :(

JFreak

Apr 1, 2004, 06:08 AM

i feel that ilife has stopped becoming something that is "included' with an OS

i think you are right in a sence that people are now able to purchase it separately and it is therefore not bundled into operating system; however, i cannot see that 10.4 would ship without ANY version of itunes/iphoto/imovie. it's just that there are no free upgrades to other ilife apps than itunes (which is still free, and will be at least as long as the battle between aac and wma is going on.)

latest and greatest will cost extra, mainly because of the huge size of garageband & idvd; they are a good excuse for bundling consumer media applications together as they are so huge they require dvd and are definetely not feasible for web download distribution. funny thing, though, that it is now bundled into computer purchase rather than os purchase ;)

jsw

Apr 1, 2004, 08:42 AM

Maybe you didn't notice (http://www.apple.com/safari/download/), but Safari is available for Jaguar too. Oh, and look (http://www.apple.com/ichat/), you're wrong about iChat AV, too! Game over, try again.

The links you use actually make iChan's point. The Jaguar versions are out of date (Safari 1.0, iChat and not iChat AV).

jsw

Apr 1, 2004, 08:46 AM

Actually, you DO have a weird version of Panther. The boxed retail version of Panther allows installs on any partition, whether or not it has a previous version of Mac OS X on it or not.

It's not a "weird" version. It's likely the upgrade version.

I don't get what the point is of saying that Apple only sells upgrades to the Mac OS because every Mac has always come with a previous version. Fine, so your original Mac OS pricing was included in your Mac, and now you're just paying $129 upgrades. Or fine, you got the Mac OS for free with your Mac, and now you're paying $129 for each full version....

Apple does sell $20 upgrades to people who bought Macs just before the latest OS version is announced. The retail versions are not upgrades. They are full releases of a new point version of the OS.

timmyOtool

Apr 1, 2004, 10:41 AM

So it's a bobcat?
The bobcat is more brown, with indistinct spotting and dark bars on forelegs; legs are shorter; tail is black but the bottom is white, lynx have a black band that encircles the entire tail; bobcats have smaller ear tufts.
all about lynx (http://ms101.mysearch.com/jsp/GGimgr.jsp?tu=http%3A//images-partners.google.com/images%3Fq%3Dtbn%3ASurx6zFlKskJ%3Ahttp%253A//www.nwf.org/keepthewildalive/images/photos/lynx.jpg&pu=http%3A//www.nwf.org/keepthewildalive/lynx/&iu=http%3A//www.nwf.org/keepthewildalive/images/photos/lynx.jpg&su=http%3A//ms101.mysearch.com/jsp/GGimg.jsp%3Fsearchfor%3Dlynx)

jsw

Apr 1, 2004, 10:55 AM

wdlove

Apr 1, 2004, 11:31 AM

It's not a "weird" version. It's likely the upgrade version.

Apple does sell $20 upgrades to people who bought Macs just before the latest OS version is announced. The retail versions are not upgrades. They are full releases of a new point version of the OS.

Even when paying the $20 upgrade price, you will still receive the full version. There is a possibility that you may not get the box.

JFreak

Apr 1, 2004, 11:55 AM

those 20-dollar-upgrade version installers are different from retail installers - they don't allow installing on a freshly formatted drive, but require older OS presence instead. that's why it's called upgrade.

and for someone who mentioned jaguar only having regular ichat (without av), you're only partly correct: jaguar has ichat for free, but ichat av is available for extra cost. so regarding availability, yes, ichat av is available for jaguar users, but newest and greatest cost money.

safari however, there's nothing to be done, it's 1.0 max and impossible to get newer version because OS has changed so much between jag and panther. it's stupid to ask for panther technology upgrade for jaguar to get the newest safari, because that's why they sell panther.

macdong

Apr 1, 2004, 12:54 PM

i've never heard of such thing.
have you actually gotten one, or has anybody else?

those 20-dollar-upgrade version installers are different from retail installers - they don't allow installing on a freshly formatted drive, but require older OS presence instead. that's why it's called upgrade.

and for someone who mentioned jaguar only having regular ichat (without av), you're only partly correct: jaguar has ichat for free, but ichat av is available for extra cost. so regarding availability, yes, ichat av is available for jaguar users, but newest and greatest cost money.

safari however, there's nothing to be done, it's 1.0 max and impossible to get newer version because OS has changed so much between jag and panther. it's stupid to ask for panther technology upgrade for jaguar to get the newest safari, because that's why they sell panther.

jsw

Apr 1, 2004, 01:03 PM

i've never heard of such thing.
have you actually gotten one, or has anybody else?

I have the $20 Panther upgrade disks, yes. They only work on top of a previous OS X installation.

whooleytoo

Apr 1, 2004, 04:28 PM

i've never heard of such thing.
have you actually gotten one, or has anybody else?

I do. If you buy a Mac shortly after an OSX release, you get the Install/Restore CDs with the previous OS version, and an Upgrade CD with the new one.

It just means if you need to reinstall from scratch, it's always a 2-step install process (well, with the updates, it's 3 steps!)

zot72

Apr 1, 2004, 09:57 PM

I do. If you buy a Mac shortly after an OSX release, you get the Install/Restore CDs with the previous OS version, and an Upgrade CD with the new one.

What's worse, is you literally have to buy a Mac shortly after an OSX release -- the "Up to Date" offers expire quickly. Apple flushes their supply chain, but if you buy at CompUSA or Microcenter, it might not have gotten Panther or iLife '04, and both upgrade offers have expired.

vertinox

Apr 2, 2004, 02:39 PM

Being a WWII buff and all... I joked with a friend that Apple was taking on the same naming scheme the Germans used with their tanks by calling the latest OS X "Panther" and then making the G5 case and themes all metallic and tank like.

And now they are going to be using Tiger!

Well... As long as the next OS isn't "King Tiger"! hehe :p

But my guess... It will be Lion.

chimerical

Apr 3, 2004, 12:51 AM

wdlove

Apr 3, 2004, 11:53 AM

And now they are going to be using Tiger!

Well... As long as the next OS isn't "King Tiger"! hehe :p

But my guess... It will be Lion.

I agree that lion would be a good name. But still want to see the tiger used because of its beautiful coat. Cheetah should also be used at the time of maximum speed of the X.

macfan76

Apr 3, 2004, 08:15 PM

tiger or whatever, I hope 10.4 will knock everyone off their socks.

When do you think they'll stop go up .1 (10.4, 10.5 ...) upgrades and go to 11 ?

What would be a good theme for OS XI

I personally hope 10.4 will continue to be a big and awesome upgrade from Apple. I think Apple might have 10.4, 10.5, and then maybe skip to 11. I think a really good theme for the OSXI would be different types of gemstones (ruby, sapphire, topaz, etc.)

PS: First Post! WooHoo! :D

Skiniftz

Apr 4, 2004, 12:36 PM

shoo! loser... what is a "MAC" User? who uses media access controllers as their OS?
Uh.. iPod users.

acidrock

Apr 4, 2004, 01:41 PM

what will happen when they run out of fast african animal names?

titaniumducky

Apr 4, 2004, 02:02 PM

I personally hope 10.4 will continue to be a big and awesome upgrade from Apple. I think Apple might have 10.4, 10.5, and then maybe skip to 11. I think a really good theme for the OSXI would be different types of gemstones (ruby, sapphire, topaz, etc.)

PS: First Post! WooHoo! :D

I like the gemstone idea! :D ;)

Doctor Q

Apr 4, 2004, 02:16 PM

I like the gemstone idea!Me too. They could switch over gradually, by starting with a Tiger's Eye:

http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/thumb/e/ee/200px-Tigers-Eye.jpg

Imagine the ads... Mac OS X 10.4, the first operating system that is also a fibrous silicified crocidolite!

OK, so maybe I'm not good in the slogan department, but the box would be really pretty.

nightcap965

Apr 4, 2004, 02:31 PM

Uh.. iPod users.
12" Powerbook G4 1Ghz
Monitor
...

Car
Steering wheel
Gearstick
Tyres
WTF do people write all this stupid crap in their signature? Do I really care what exact model of computer you own?

How else can we indicate our status? For example, you have a 12" PowerBook, I have a 12" iBook, therefore I tug my forelock in acknowledgement of your supremacy. On the other hand, the fact that you list your car with your furniture indicates that you're living in a garage, which costs you points. :)

AppleJustWorks

Apr 4, 2004, 04:23 PM

How else can we indicate our status? For example, you have a 12" PowerBook, I have a 12" iBook, therefore I tug my forelock in acknowledgement of your supremacy. On the other hand, the fact that you list your car with your furniture indicates that you're living in a garage, which costs you points. :)

Stating your status is fine, but listing every piece of furniture, hardware and software in your home is just plain annoying. :mad:

Stewie

Apr 4, 2004, 05:15 PM

I wish that they would get all the bugs worked out of 10.3 before going off and working on another OS. Jaguar is more stable and is what I continue to use everyday.

wdlove

Apr 4, 2004, 07:12 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/thumb/e/ee/200px-Tigers-Eye.jpg[/img]

Imagine the ads... Mac OS X 10.4, the first operating system that is also a fibrous silicified crocidolite!

OK, so maybe I'm not good in the slogan department, but the box would be really pretty.

That is beautiful Doctor Q. You should send that to Apple, maybe they could incorporate that somehow into the promotion whenever they decide to use the Tiger Code name. The box & CD could be of the Tiger coat and the X the design using his eye.

briankonar

Apr 4, 2004, 11:47 PM

ehh...why don't they just name 10.4 "*****" and get this all over with...my computer is not a freaking animal... stop naming the OS after one. Or if you insist on it, at least make it something less generic....Lnyx or something is better than Tiger...just name it OS Great White and stop it already. Now that I think about it...I like Great White.

o no, what happened to the smilies...they look...awful.

edit...is Puss really a bad word?

johnnyjibbs

Apr 5, 2004, 03:38 PM

I agree that lion would be a good name. But still want to see the tiger used because of its beautiful coat. Cheetah should also be used at the time of maximum speed of the X.
Cheetah has already been used. It was the name of Mac OS X 10.0, probably so called because it was a "cheat" of a release (i.e. unfinished). 10.1 was called Puma, although these two names were not marketed in the way Jaguar and Panther have been.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what big cat they use for each one, it's just good that they are giving them marketable and easily recognisable names which help differentiate the difference between major releases, more so than "10.2" or "10.3" can do.

JFreak

Apr 6, 2004, 12:57 AM

well, the 10.0 could very well be forgotten totally since it is after all only a public beta - which is nice to be available, but beta is not released software yet. and it's just good thing that the first version is not hyped too much, because there are always plenty of bugs to be fixed (microsoft, are you listening? look at apple, that's the way you should also have been doing it) and the software support just wasn't there in that time. [that, by the way, is the #1 reason why linux is not so popular desktop os, so that in mind it is easy to understand why apple chose not to hype it. really, there was no reason at the time.]

but 10.2 "jaguar" was a different kind of story, it was the first really kick-ass mac osx - it lived up to its hype and became really stable system in the end.

---

by the way, forget all this ten-dot thing. we have currently mac osx system3 and they are not going to change the osx moniker any time soon. forget os10, that doesn't exist. osX is totally different thing; it's not a mac os anymore, it's a unix now. and we can very well have an osx system50 (that some will still call 10.50) some day...

Manatee

Apr 7, 2004, 03:42 PM

I hope they change to reptiles for OS XI.

wdlove

Apr 8, 2004, 08:21 PM

I hope they change to reptiles for OS XI.

Why would you prefer reptiles for OS XI? There connotation is all that positive, very similar to a snake.

gopher

Apr 8, 2004, 08:29 PM

Why would you prefer reptiles for OS XI? There connotation is all that positive, very similar to a snake.

I can see it now...Brontosaurus ate my homework!

aswitcher

Apr 8, 2004, 08:33 PM

They could move from cats to dogs and have plenty of names...

Manatee

Apr 8, 2004, 08:46 PM

I was thinking of Gecko, Iguana, Komodo Dragon.

Of course some snakes, like Cobra, Sidewinder, Python, would be pretty cool.

AppleJustWorks

Apr 8, 2004, 09:04 PM

Even though Apple uses Cat names for their OS Names, Mac OS X Python sounds pretty sweet to me :p

ingenious

Apr 8, 2004, 09:33 PM

by the way, forget all this ten-dot thing. we have currently mac osx system3 and they are not going to change the osx moniker any time soon. forget os10, that doesn't exist. osX is totally different thing; it's not a mac os anymore, it's a unix now. and we can very well have an osx system50 (that some will still call 10.50) some day...

actually ten point five (10.5) is really ten point fifty (10.50) cuz the zero on the end doesnt mean anything. so if you really wanted ten point five, look for 10.05! (which i dont think exists :P) Sorry just wanted to point that out.

P.S. So we really have ten point thirty point thirty right now!!!! (im glad they just say ten point three point three- also in ur wondering, i wrote all the numbers out to show the difference between 10.5 and 10.05)

vkumario

Apr 10, 2004, 11:17 PM

Expose in itself was worth the 129 dollars, the upgrades are well worth the money.

JFreak

Apr 11, 2004, 02:46 AM

actually ten point five (10.5) is really ten point fifty (10.50) cuz the zero on the end doesnt mean anything. so if you really wanted ten point five, look for 10.05! (which i dont think exists :P) Sorry just wanted to point that out.

P.S. So we really have ten point thirty point thirty right now!!!! (im glad they just say ten point three point three- also in ur wondering, i wrote all the numbers out to show the difference between 10.5 and 10.05)

no.

build numbering is totally different than release numbering. osx panther is a third major release of osx, and that's why they call it "three". osx updates to some major version are dot-something and the naming system clearly tells you the order in which the updates are released and the major release the package is upgrading. so if apple decides to release fifty updates to panther, they will release a 3.50 update of osx.

(the dot does not represent a decimal, but makes a difference between major release and upgrade, and the whole thing is not a version number but a version name. for example oracle uses similar naming scheme and the version name can be something like 9.2.0.1.0 - you can clearly see that it is not a number but a name instead.)

so again, no, osx version is not a number: panther's hundredth update would get release name of 3.100 if they would for some reason want to stick with major release three for that long. and for the very same reason - if apple decides so - the osx system can have more than nine major version releases before osx name would have to be changed. apple can keep the osx for as long as they like, be it a "kittycat osx 99.999" or whatever.

Fireball1244

Apr 11, 2004, 03:03 AM

Heh, I remember in the bad old days, when they scrapped the Copland plan, but before they bought NeXT, people were all out of order about whether the "next generation" Mac OS would be Mac OS 8, because we'd all gotten used to the name. But if they released an upgrade every year, and it took a long time to roll out the Copland technology, what would happen if they reached version 7.9? What would come next? Ahh... memories.

I don't think Apple will stick with the 10.x marketing for long. But when we move to 11.0, the name Mac OS X will undoubtedly stay -- its become Apple's brand, for better or worse. Just like OS/2 had a version 3, so too will OS X almost certainly have a version 11. And I'm sure numbers will stay fairly irrelevant as Apple pushes a "name" for each release, like Mac OS X Panther.

allpar

Apr 11, 2004, 11:10 AM

Expose in itself was worth the 129 dollars, the upgrades are well worth the money.

If that's your attitude, it explains why Apple doesn't sell computers under $999 - and why the ones under $1400 (dual G4) are so uncompetitive. They've got a great loyal user base with far more money than they need, why would they want to sell to the rest of the world? The Mercedes comparison works...corporate arrogance and high price tags...except that Mercedes loses money (when they aren't sucking it out of aquisitions such as Chrysler, Freightliner, Detroit Diesel, and presumably Fokker and then pretending that those companies were losing money before the buy).

This way lies oblivion. At some point if market share doesn't rise, Apple's gonna be in big doggy-doo -- Linux is getting better every year, and Apple will have to show that it has an advantage that merits paying twice as much, other than being able to run Office (which Linux will be able to do eventually).

wdlove

Apr 11, 2004, 02:29 PM

So I wonder how Apple will set up the nomenclature when they switch to 11.0? I thought that most of this decade was going to be X.

Here in New England and Boston in particular Linux is rising faster than Windows.

ingenious

Apr 11, 2004, 02:47 PM

personally, id love for them to call it sabertooth instead of tiger... tiger is too bland. not like the apple we know (or at least used to- can u say yearly HD updates :()!

Urdam

Apr 11, 2004, 02:50 PM

I agree

ingenious

Apr 11, 2004, 02:53 PM

no.

build numbering is totally different than release numbering. osx panther is a third major release of osx, and that's why they call it "three". osx updates to some major version are dot-something and the naming system clearly tells you the order in which the updates are released and the major release the package is upgrading. so if apple decides to release fifty updates to panther, they will release a 3.50 update of osx.

(the dot does not represent a decimal, but makes a difference between major release and upgrade, and the whole thing is not a version number but a version name. for example oracle uses similar naming scheme and the version name can be something like 9.2.0.1.0 - you can clearly see that it is not a number but a name instead.)

so again, no, osx version is not a number: panther's hundredth update would get release name of 3.100 if they would for some reason want to stick with major release three for that long. and for the very same reason - if apple decides so - the osx system can have more than nine major version releases before osx name would have to be changed. apple can keep the osx for as long as they like, be it a "kittycat osx 99.999" or whatever.

jeez. i was j putting that there for fun.... i didnt mean anything technical by it... :P

Toe

Apr 12, 2004, 10:51 AM

So I wonder how Apple will set up the nomenclature when they switch to 11.0? I thought that most of this decade was going to be X.

There's a whole different issue with 11... if they use the current naming style, it would be OS XI (which some people would write as OSXI). Two problems there... First, it's too many capital letters. Americans are confused by that much stuff. Second, while no many people call OS X "Oh-Sex," people would certainly want to call OS XI "Oh Sexy." Or is that a good thing?

Anyway, 11 would have to be a major change to break the 10.x scheme they've been doing. In that case, they might opt for something completely different... like "Mac2" or something that sounds as revolutionary as that would have to be. Or maybe just "Eleven" with no Mac or OS or anything.

slooksterPSV

Apr 18, 2004, 02:25 AM

Well Mac has a good thing going if they're going to call it Jaguar, Tiger, Panther etc. Felines are fast, some are sleek, and very powerful. Maybe they should start naming their processors after powerful creatures like Power Lion G6 Processor... maybe not...

mudflapper

Apr 18, 2004, 03:35 AM

wdlove

Apr 18, 2004, 09:04 AM

Well, I really like LYNX too, but you know some marketing guy at Apple will probably suggest that the name is too close to LINUX, so we probably wont be spotting that cat for a little while.

OS11 looks weird, not to mention that it would be open season on Apple for Spinal Tap jokes. I like OSXI too, but wasn't that the name of that kinda-hot Russian ice skater a few years back?

-mudflapper

I'm not sure what you mean by saying that OS 11 would cause 'open season on Apple fro Spinal Tap jokes?' Being a medical person I know what a spinal tap procedure means. :confused:

AppleMatt

Apr 18, 2004, 10:03 AM

I'm not sure what you mean by saying that OS 11 would cause 'open season on Apple fro Spinal Tap jokes?' Being a medical person I know what a spinal tap procedure means. :confused:

I think he means the band Spinal Tap, not an actual lumbar puncture!

AppleMatt

ingenious

Apr 18, 2004, 03:58 PM

Well, I really like LYNX too, but you know some marketing guy at Apple will probably suggest that the name is too close to LINUX, so we probably wont be spotting that cat for a little while.

OS11 lookes weird, not to mention that it would be open season on Apple for Spinal Tap jokes. I like OSXI too, but wasn't that the name of that kinda-hot Russian ice skater a few years back?

-mudflapper

im still goin with sabertooth. that is sooo awesome. it invokes fear!!! muahahahaha! :D

iBunny

Apr 18, 2004, 04:28 PM

I would like to know when Tiger will be available?

and will it work on current iBooks / Powerbooks? or will you need a G5 Processor?

Thanks ;)

(Remember I dunno anything about mac's yet.... I havent a clue) :p

johnnyjibbs

Apr 18, 2004, 04:36 PM

No, it will be at least four years before support for the G3 and G4 are stopped, as Apple is still selling G4 systems and probably will be until around Summer 2005 (iBooks will be last).

wdlove

Apr 18, 2004, 07:11 PM

im still goin with sabertooth. that is sooo awesome. it invokes fear!!! muahahahaha! :D

The last thing that we want to do is have Apple with a product that induces fear. Unless it would actually be a positive effect and people would be afraid not to have the OS!

I guess that I'm showing my age again, never heard of the band Spinal Tap.

If true johnnyjibbs, that would be a fairly swift transition is done by next summer. Then we can also have a 64 bit OS.

MacAliciousGirl

Apr 19, 2004, 09:48 AM

It should be cheetah, seeing how thats the fastest cat. Tiger sounds pretty lame-o, and I think we can reserve the title "lame-o" for strictly windows people. so..Tiger-no cheetah - yes :D

CraigandhiseMac

Apr 19, 2004, 10:37 AM

What?

Microsoft does not update yearly.

Windows 95 - 1995
Windows 98 - 1998
Windows XP - 2002
Windows Longhorn - 2006ish

NT3.51 - 1994
NT 4.0 - 1996
Windows 2000 - 1999
Windows XP - 2002
Windows 2003 Server - 2003

How do you figure (and please dont flame me if my dates are exactly right!) that Microsoft does a yearly upgrade? Or that MacOS X upgrades are in line with Microsoft's OS releases

You got that wrong, Win 95A came out in 1995, Win 95B(OSR2) in 1996, Win 95C(OSR2.1) in 1997, Win 98 in 1998, Win 98 SE in 1999, Win ME in 2000 and XP in 2001, its since XP MS has dropped the yearly update/patching of Windows.

Before you lot curse me Im a recent switcher and I aint looking back:-)

gopher

Apr 19, 2004, 08:20 PM

It should be cheetah, seeing how thats the fastest cat. Tiger sounds pretty lame-o, and I think we can reserve the title "lame-o" for strictly windows people. so..Tiger-no cheetah - yes :D

We all know it should be called Cheetah. Unfortunately and this is the big joke :D Cheetah was Mac OS X 10.0.

So we aren't going to have the fastest of cats.

iBunny

Apr 19, 2004, 08:34 PM

Do you think we will se OS 10.4 by christmas?

Sparky's

Apr 19, 2004, 08:59 PM

This would have been my choice

Margay

Common Name(s): Margay, Marguey, Tree Ocelot
Scientific Name: Felis [Leopardus] Wiedii
Weight: 9-18 pounds
Head/Body: 26 inches
Tail: 16 inches
Subspecies: 11
Gestation: ~81 days
Status: Endangered
Estimated World Population: ~10,000
http://home.twcny.rr.com/mainelyfelids/margay.html

iBunny

Apr 19, 2004, 09:00 PM

what happens when they run out of cats?

They could name it OS10.7 The Bunny :)

mattmack

Apr 19, 2004, 09:53 PM

what happens when they run out of cats?

They could name it OS10.7 The Bunny :)Nah they should switch to marsupials OS X.9 Koala

iMeowbot

Apr 20, 2004, 12:00 AM

what happens when they run out of cats?

Judging by the noises from out by the river that just woke me up, and the frequency with which that happens, there will never, ever be a shortage of cats.

egghead9@mac.co

Apr 20, 2004, 05:00 AM

aswitcher

Apr 20, 2004, 05:28 AM

Nah they should switch to marsupials OS X.9 Koala

Brilliant! :D Koala, Platipus, Echidna, Wallaby, Quoll, Numbat, Bilby :p

wdlove

Apr 20, 2004, 11:34 AM

I think tiger is a great name, but i wonder how far apple can go with this, there are only so many felines that they can take advantage of.
Maybe they will move on to amphibians to emphasize the cross platform integration.
I have created an image of what I think the Tiger box will look like
(I do not work for apple)!!!
[IMG]

Nice job egghead9@mac.co. Your design of the X is why I'd like to see Tiger used. It just looks so elegant. I'm not so sure that I like the dull gray look, or is that to be brushed metal aluminum?

Sparky's I also like your suggestion Margay. It has a very nice sleek coat also. The only problem might be that the name isn't as catchy.

andrewm

Apr 21, 2004, 12:12 AM

Barring a horrible joke about OS "Shins Eleven" (sorry movie fans out there; I've never even seen the film), I think that a perfect name would be the NeXT OS. Bring back the true roots of the underpinings of the system.

thatwendigo

Apr 21, 2004, 12:29 AM

I'm still waiting on the release of OS 11. Then I can annoy the hell out of my friends when I tell them that my computer goes to eleven. :D

Yes, I did just go there.

jade

Apr 21, 2004, 02:28 AM

i heard the gong :)

egghead9@mac.co

Apr 21, 2004, 03:09 AM

Its brushed metal.
But im still not sure whether the X logo will feature tiger stripes as the panther logo did not.
I hope that the upgrade will provide more stability in such apps as iMovie (still problems)

wdlove

Apr 21, 2004, 11:15 AM

I'm still waiting on the release of OS 11. Then I can annoy the hell out of my friends when I tell them that my computer goes to eleven. :D

Yes, I did just go there.

What will that mean that your computer is going eleven? I think that will se 10.4 & 10.5 much sooner.

Borg3of5

Apr 21, 2004, 11:55 AM

Expose in itself was worth the 129 dollars, the upgrades are well worth the money.

Uh....no it's not. Exposé is worth at the most $12. It's a neat feature and everything, but at the most it's good shareware. Apple should only charge for a new OS, aka OS X; then the middle, aka OS 10.5, then again and ONLY again when it gets to OS 11.

This nickel-and-dime crap is starting to look and taste like Micro$oft.

switchedanhappy

Apr 21, 2004, 12:15 PM

ingenious

Apr 21, 2004, 01:20 PM

mattmack

Apr 21, 2004, 06:27 PM

mikeumkc

Apr 21, 2004, 06:51 PM

I dont care what they call it, so long as my airport starts working again. Thanks for that last "update" apple!!!

mklos

Apr 21, 2004, 07:09 PM

Uh....no it's not. Exposé is worth at the most $12. It's a neat feature and everything, but at the most it's good shareware. Apple should only charge for a new OS, aka OS X; then the middle, aka OS 10.5, then again and ONLY again when it gets to OS 11.

This nickel-and-dime crap is starting to look and taste like Micro$oft.

Quit being a tight wad! Apple's not forcing you to buy every version of Mac OS X. Each upgrade is a major update for the system and Apple developers work around the clock to get it out so I think they deserve a little something for it. I guess if they wanted to they could each year call they could change the whole number scheme so it would be called Mac OS 11, then next year call it Mac OS 12, etc... If they did that it would be a little ridiculous after a while since Apple updates its OS every year.

I believe Apple has done this before with its OS. I don't believe you can go from Mac OS 8.0/8.1 to 8.5/8.6 w/o paying for the full version of Mac OS 8.5. Maybe this is where you got the idea from. If so, Apple wasn't updating its OS every year back then so it was a little easier to not charge for it all the time.

rickey939

Apr 21, 2004, 07:24 PM

I dont care what they call it, so long as my airport starts working again. Thanks for that last "update" apple!!!

Cry me a river...

:rolleyes:

bryantm3

Apr 21, 2004, 07:27 PM

Let's just hope they're not bringing back the stripes on the menubar...
i want the stripes on the menus+titles back d00d. even if they're subtle.

nightcap965

Apr 21, 2004, 08:26 PM

The last thing that we want to do is have Apple with a product that induces fear. Unless it would actually be a positive effect and people would be afraid not to have the OS!

I guess that I'm showing my age again, never heard of the band Spinal Tap.

If true johnnyjibbs, that would be a fairly swift transition is done by next summer. Then we can also have a 64 bit OS.

"This Is Spinal Tap" was a mockumentary from 1984. Here's the IMDB link: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088258/

iBunny

Apr 21, 2004, 09:24 PM

When will we see OSX.4 that we can buy?

wdlove

Apr 22, 2004, 08:04 PM

When will we see OSX.4 that we can buy?

I'm guessing Steve will introduce 10.4 at WWDC, just like last year. Maybe it will go on sale later in the Fall. :cool:

ingenious

Apr 22, 2004, 08:05 PM

i want the stripes on the menus+titles back d00d. even if they're subtle.

i think those stripes were ugly! i love panthers new look! :cool:

ingenious

Apr 22, 2004, 08:07 PM

Cry me a river...

:rolleyes:

i didnt see any tears. if he/she has a problem, let him/her say something! UGH i hate it when ppl say that! :mad:

switchedanhappy

Apr 23, 2004, 02:11 AM

yeah sry stripes blow. they're al plasticky and cheap looking. i'd rather the slimmed down look of panther than the stripes of jaguar. I also like the panther finder way more. The old one was a joke.

aswitcher

Apr 23, 2004, 02:27 AM

I'm guessing Steve will introduce 10.4 at WWDC, just like last year. Maybe it will go on sale later in the Fall. :cool:

I think at earliest January next year. Updates each year are not as important in my mind as spending time on other software like iLife (new apps, imporved apps) and making each osx release have plenty of new stuff. Plus its a bit cheaper and less hastle for us all.

mxpiazza

Apr 23, 2004, 03:00 AM

stripes do blow indeed, and if iTunes, the migration of the look in the OS, and the new g5's tell you anything, brushed metal is the new look, so i expect tiger to have even more by the way of metal in it, although i also hope that there is more UI customization available as well.

my guess: features announced at WWDC, hands-on beta at Paris Expo, 10.4 released at MWSF in January '05.

JFreak

Apr 23, 2004, 04:19 AM

i want the stripes on the menus+titles back d00d. even if they're subtle.

the stripes are there, just adjust your display and you'll see. they are so subtle now that it is really beautiful :)

MacMobster

Jun 7, 2004, 01:04 AM

I dont have time to read 26 pages of posts, so i'll put in my two cents from page 6, whan y'all were talking about wheather or not apple OS 'upgrades' were actually upgrades. I dont know if that was ever finalized, but I will finalize it for good. I recently formatted a eMac I was going to return for credit tword my G5 using another computer linked via firewire. i kind of accidently formatted it in a 'MS-DOS File System', thus screwing myself up badly. i was actually able to use my Panther install disc to install panther back onto the eMac. this surely proves that the Panther install disc is not only able to upgrade other mac operating systems, but is the complete operating system, just like on microsoft systems. and they still rule.

sundoggy

Jun 7, 2004, 03:13 PM

...I guess that I'm showing my age again, never heard of the band Spinal Tap.

It was more of a movie than a band (the movie is a cult favourite and I think Rob Reiner's first), actually a mock rock documentary about the 'mock' band Spinal Tap (which actually did tour after the movie I think, though they purposely stunk) . One of the most famous jokes from the movie is from a scene where the interviewer asks the guitar player why his guitar amp went up to 11 instead of just making 10 louder. His answer: "This one goes up to 11."

wdlove

Jun 8, 2004, 08:43 PM

Here is the first indication of what the Tiger logo will look like. I received an invitation from Steve to attend WWDC. My acceptance is to see him from my local Apple Store! :) :cool:

Will not allow me to upload even though it's a jpg.

whooleytoo

Jun 8, 2004, 08:45 PM

bousozoku

Jun 8, 2004, 09:53 PM

It was more of a movie than a band (the movie is a cult favourite and I think Rob Reiner's first), actually a mock rock documentary about the 'mock' band Spinal Tap (which actually did tour after the movie I think, though they purposely stunk) . One of the most famous jokes from the movie is from a scene where the interviewer asks the guitar player why his guitar amp went up to 11 instead of just making 10 louder. His answer: "This one goes up to 11."

That was bizarre. I remember seeing the previews and the behind-the-scenes business on various t.v. shows at the time.

I find it difficult to believe that wdlove doesn't remember that. Had it happened in the 1960s, I could believe it. "If you can remember the '60s, you weren't there." :D 1984 wasn't that long ago, was it?

By the way, Thunderbird thought that my Tiger-laced invitation to WWDC was junk. I think it was right. :D

mattmack

Jun 8, 2004, 09:55 PM

1984 wasn't that long ago, was it?

Well it was a little while ago, but also Spinal Tap being hilariously funny was not much more than a cult film :eek:

macsrus

Jun 19, 2004, 08:56 PM

So far most of the OSX updates have been under the hood at the command line..

I hope Tiger keeps up that trend....
The goodies im looking for most would be ....
64 bit kernel.... I have programs that need to address more than 4 gig per thread

support for the following command line tools
useradd, userdel, grpadd,grpdel

Complete retirement of Netinfo

would be a dream come true...

vkumario

Apr 6, 2005, 10:41 AM

If that's your attitude, it explains why Apple doesn't sell computers under $999 - and why the ones under $1400 (dual G4) are so uncompetitive. They've got a great loyal user base with far more money than they need, why would they want to sell to the rest of the world? The Mercedes comparison works...corporate arrogance and high price tags...except that Mercedes loses money (when they aren't sucking it out of aquisitions such as Chrysler, Freightliner, Detroit Diesel, and presumably Fokker and then pretending that those companies were losing money before the buy).

This way lies oblivion. At some point if market share doesn't rise, Apple's gonna be in big doggy-doo -- Linux is getting better every year, and Apple will have to show that it has an advantage that merits paying twice as much, other than being able to run Office (which Linux will be able to do eventually).

Thats simply not true. The high price tag comes with both the operating system and the hardware. Ofcourse you are going to have a higher price tag, however, but you are going to save a heck of lot of time, getting the OS X which works better. Its kinda like getting a picture, would rather get a jigsaw puzzle and put it together yourself, or would you like to get the master piece and frame it. To each his own.

The first on is a little bit more fun, and lets you experiment, the later works better.

Hey its your 2 cents

allpar

Apr 6, 2005, 10:45 AM

kenaustus

Apr 6, 2005, 11:31 AM

Fortunately Apple's kinda proven me right with the Mini at $499.

Yes, the OS could be considered part of the price...except that if I started with a WinXP computer 3 years ago, I'd have paid, um, nothing for upgrades. If I had started with OS X 3 years ago, I'd have paid $220 and would pay another $120 for 10.4. So software is handled by upgrade fees.

I do wish Apple would provide a machine between "entry level, power doesn't matter" and "competes with dual-Xenons."

If you had bought a Mac 3 years ago you would have been able to decide to buy or not to buy Panther - just as you have the option to buy Tiger. You would have saved money with XP because MS can't get Longhorn out the door - even after stripping out some of the great new features.

One significant difference is that Tiger will work very well with a 3 year old Mac and Longhorn has some significant demands that will need hardware upgrades for many PC users.

As for mid range Macs, there are two very good ones. The iBook is a great notebook (my wife loves hers more than our 20" G5 iMac) and handles most users needs very well. The eMac is also a very good computer for the price, has a beautiful display and the same power levels as a lot of fairly new PowerBooks. Move up a little higher and the entry level G5 iMac is a beautiful computer at a very good price.

As for me, I'm going to buy the Family Pack when Tiger comes out as there are 5 Macs in the family. That comes to less than $50 per computer for a full OS - not an upgrade, Let's see what MS hits their users with when Longhorn finally arrives.

allpar

Apr 6, 2005, 11:36 AM

The ibook and emac are both the same speed as the Mini and neither are a midrange computer; they are, in terms of speed, entry-level. The iBook is very good compared wtih other notebooks but not desktops.

The point is that Apple makes money off software quite separately from the hardware. I would be somewhat surprised if the system software development is funded more than a little from hardware.

That $50 is theoretically a whole new OS but you and I both know it's effectively an upgrade charge, because you can't buy a Mac without a system...just like you can't (as far as I know) buy a Dell without Windows.

Split hairs if you must, but the reason Apple didn't make a sub-$1,000 machine until now had more to do with preserving steep margins than with any software costs. I'd still prefer a Mini that was an inch bigger on each dimension but had a full sized hard drive...! And I'd like an iMac G5 - WITHOUT the screen. I HAVE a computer screen now. I want a G5 powered box that doesn't cost over $1,400...!

toti

Apr 6, 2005, 12:18 PM

allpar

Apr 6, 2005, 12:21 PM

Perhaps we need to define "midrange." I (and most computer users) consider $1,500 to be "premium."

kenaustus

Apr 6, 2005, 12:46 PM

I read a while back that the average selling price for a Dell was around the $1,500 mark. You start at a low price and then "enhance" it, like moving away from shared memory. Before I moved to Macs the office Dells were all in the $1,500 to $1,800 range.

If you want a G5 your options are the iMac or a PowerMac. The pricing on the PM isn't that bad when you consider the engineering that went into designing it, and the quality of the build.

Does Apple make money off of software? Sure, otherwise there would be no R&D in the software area. The issue is the value of a new OS like Tiger for you - do you want it or are you satisfied with Panther? Same with iLife - happy with what came with your computer or do you want want the newest version?

For me it is money well spent. Apple keeps adding features to their software while MS keeps pulling features out of Longhorn. I'll pay the price because after using PCs since the days of DOS I'm actually enjoying using a computer again. That's worth the price for me.

powerbook911

Apr 6, 2005, 01:08 PM

Perhaps we need to define "midrange." I (and most computer users) consider $1,500 to be "premium."

Before I was a mac freak, I considered $1500 preminium, but I don't now. :)

allpar

Apr 6, 2005, 01:26 PM

"Does Apple make money off of software? Sure, otherwise there would be no R&D in the software area." This is an answer to a question nobody asked. A previous poster said there could be no sub-$1,000 Macs because of Apple's massive software investment. I was saying software cost is not the issue since Apple charges more for its software - assuming you stay current - which I suspect most people do, since newer apps tend to stop supporting older OS versions.

$1,500 will buy this kind of Dell:
- 3.2 GHz, 800 MHz FSB
- 1 GB RAM (dual channel)
- Mouse, WordPerfect, keyboard
- 80 GB SATA 7200 rpm hard drive
- DVD+RW writer and regular CD-RW
- Firewire card, USB2
- Fax-modem

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=dim84rs3&s=bsd#bottom_anchor

That's for a "business" machine which is probably higher quality than the standard consumer machines.

Does that $1,500 average include monitors and printers?

Let's not make any mistake here - I'm not buying a freakin' Dell. HOWEVER, I am also not buying a relatively slow Mac that's in the same price range. I think for $700 to $1,500 you get a lot more computer from Dell than from Apple, assuming you don't need a built in monitor. In the dual G5 range, you do better with Apple; in the $500-700 range, you do better with Apple.

In the long run, regardless of hardware...yup, Macs are a better deal. But that's another question. I buy computers from Apple far less often because of their pricing and, at the moment, the speed of their low-end machines.

Anyone remember the Quadra 605 / LC 475? (68040 machine in a pizza-box). It was very similar to the Mini...but faster (relative to the mainstream machines) and a bit more expensive (just a little compared to the average prices of computers then and now).

Currently I have the last of the dual G4s. Got it just as the G5s were coming out - for $400 less than a single 1.6 G5. Made sense at the time but I suspect as software gets G5 optimized...then again I expected the 3 GHz G5s to be out by now which would drive down the prices of the others, and I figured I'd be buying a new machine about now.

Montserrat

Apr 6, 2005, 02:26 PM

Somewhat off topic, but at the same time relevant.

As someone who has only actually owned a Mac - having only used other people's PCs before I invested in something myself - I have followed the evolution of Mac OS X much more closely than Windows. Now, with every iteration of the Mac OS there seems to be the usual 'under-the-bonnet' changes making the system faster/more powerful/more compliant with current peripherals etc. but Apple also bring in a swathe of features that are genuinely cool for the user. I wasn't a Mac user pre-Jaguar, but Panther brought in Exposé and iChat AV - as well as a host of other changes that made using the OS much more pleasurable. Now the 2 biggest things with Tiger seem to be Spotlight and Dashboard (although I'm sure there'll be many more cool things I'm sure once I get to try it...) Both of which look like really useful tools - particularly as Dashboard brings with it a host of mini-apps (or widgets if you like) that are genuinely useful (sure similar shareware versions are available now, but have you seen the rendering on the weather widget :eek: ) - so it's kind-of 10+ new cool things to play with/use.

My experience with windows is that functions like that are not added - It just seems to be a bit of Window-dressing (in garish-blue) and trying to make things work as they should have done originally (as well as increasing the system demands). Can someone tell me what "cool" features were added between, say Windows 2000 and Windows XP? Any new Software - or just updates?

I'm not being rude to Microsoft, but I just haven't seen the improvements. At the end of the day, I'm not a programmer - though I'd like to know how - so I'm more interested in how the OS feels and what it can do for me, without me having to fish out various bits of shareware etc. off the web/shop shelves. Mac OS X has always impressed in this regard.

zakatov

Apr 6, 2005, 02:29 PM

This thread is almost a year old, let it RIP ppl

allpar

Apr 6, 2005, 02:29 PM

Well, yes. Much as I hate to defend Microsoft, here are some changes.

1) Windows 2000 -> XP. Huge number of built-in device drivers added, ease of use changes (especially if you use "Classic" windows and start menu, otherwise they have "difficulty of use" changes), better PROGRAM stability (as opposed to OS stability), more robust networking. Drawbacks: slower, requires more resources, HORRIBLE default user interface.

2) XP - XP-SP2, a free upgrade. Massive amount of security improvements which, yes, should have been there to begin with. Then again, 10.3, 10.2, and 10.1 contained mostly improvements that should have been there to begin with - and we're still, IMHO, not up to the ease of use of system 9.

I have been a Mac owner since 1988. The first Mac I used was the 128. I am loyal. I also own a lightweight Sony Vaio laptop and a generic PC box I built myself.

Montserrat

Apr 6, 2005, 02:38 PM

1) Windows 2000 -> XP. Huge number of built-in device drivers added, ease of use changes (especially if you use "Classic" windows and start menu, otherwise they have "difficulty of use" changes), better PROGRAM stability (as opposed to OS stability), more robust networking. Drawbacks: slower, requires more resources, HORRIBLE default user interface.

2) XP - XP-SP2, a free upgrade. Massive amount of security improvements which, yes, should have been there to begin with..

Fair enough, but what I was trying to get at was new 'features' of the OS - like we have exposé, now Dashboard and Spotlight (OK that's just searching, but with smart folders etc - it is quite a breakthrough).

Device drivers (granted Mac OS X is not innocent on this, but in my experience pretty good - and peripheral providers have to take some of the stick in some cases) and Program stability is kinda what I expect from an OS. Mac OS X just gives me new ways to do things that is just so much cooler, faster and more intuitive.

kd0tc0m

Apr 10, 2005, 05:53 PM

Talk about a hell of a week...

Tiger will win the Masters.
Tiger will be debuted.

Maybe that April Fool's Day headline wasn't a fool. Maybe it'd be the best marketing plan for Apple... ever. ;)

jcooper42

Apr 11, 2005, 11:58 PM

Fair enough, but what I was trying to get at was new 'features' of the OS - like we have exposé, now Dashboard and Spotlight (OK that's just searching, but with smart folders etc - it is quite a breakthrough).

Device drivers (granted Mac OS X is not innocent on this, but in my experience pretty good - and peripheral providers have to take some of the stick in some cases) and Program stability is kinda what I expect from an OS. Mac OS X just gives me new ways to do things that is just so much cooler, faster and more intuitive.

Windows XP for the consumer was a huge release, the biggest since '95. Windows XP Home brought the consumer a stable OS built on NT - which contrary to some idiotic posts I've seen here has nothing to do with MS-DOS. NT was re-written from the ground up, mostly by some engineers lured away from DEC.

THe NT kernel was built by people who understood everything about UNIX (DEC's alpha business & digital unix were the focus of the engineers who left to MS) and had the resources to start over. The UI was abstracted with the same win32 api being used to ease the migration from MS-DOS/Win16 shell. Starting over sounds better than it really is. UNIX was a good thing, if not perfect. Its continued to improve as well.

So anyway, what did people get with XP. Well, multi-user computing for one thing. My wife and I can both stay logged into the same machine all the time, and switch back and forth between contexts. I can also terminal service into my machine and resume my console session remotely - and if you have never used it terminal services is virtually indistinguishable from "being there" - it simply smokes VNC, XWindows and all that other crap. Destop assistance is built on the same technology but plugs into MSN Messenger so you can chat with your mother online and then help her fix something.

The UI is smarter. Frequently used programs appear right in the Start Menu. After I install something new its highlighted in the programs menu. Boot time is much faster than Win2K. Lots of little things. Media player minimizes to the task bar so you can see the song/artist when titles change, or pause/skip without expanding the program. Too many of these minor improvements to mention.

Now I've used it so long I can't remember half the things I thought were "cool" when I first started - but I know its painful to use a 2K box. So this isn't really that much different from the evolution OS X has seen.

As a windows user about to switch, I really don't understand all the defensive antagonism I see from Mac users against Windows. Windows is a good system. Maybe you like Mac better, fine. But if you can't articulate the reasons why without distorting the truth then probably you aren't really informed enough to comment.

Doctor Q

Apr 12, 2005, 12:55 AM

Windows XP for the consumer was a huge release, the biggest since '95. Windows XP Home brought the consumer a stable OS built on NT - which contrary to some idiotic posts I've seen here has nothing to do with MS-DOS. NT was re-written from the ground up, mostly by some engineers lured away from DEC.

THe NT kernel was built by people who understood everything about UNIX (DEC's alpha business & digital unix were the focus of the engineers who left to MS) and had the resources to start over. The UI was abstracted with the same win32 api being used to ease the migration from MS-DOS/Win16 shell. Starting over sounds better than it really is. UNIX was a good thing, if not perfect. Its continued to improve as well.In case any of you think jcooper42 is blowing smoke, I second his comments about the fine pedigree of Windows NT. When it first arrived on the scene, I read extensively about it and was impressed with the design and principles. I wasn't as happy with the implementation of the user interface on top of it, but I found much sense in the core ideas that evolved from the experience of DEC's engineers.

BWhaler

Apr 12, 2005, 03:21 AM

As a windows user about to switch, I really don't understand all the defensive antagonism I see from Mac users against Windows. Windows is a good system. Maybe you like Mac better, fine. But if you can't articulate the reasons why without distorting the truth then probably you aren't really informed enough to comment.

Welcome and congratulations on your switch.

Don't worry about the Mac folks who seem a little defensive. It's mostly in good humor and you also have to appreciate the community gets a lot of attacks so they tend to keep their guard up. Go check out www.internet-nexus.com for an example. Thurrott is an interesting guy because he attacks Apple not because he hates the company or the products--he loves both--but he attacks them because he hates Apple people. He is pretty public in his opinion of this, and it is an example of what people here have faced for a long time.

I'm not trying to forgive the behavior, just giving some context. Apple is much more mainstream nowadays, so it may seem odd. But it comes from a good place.

Plus, as you point out, XP works for you. I think you will find in all non-MS communities, it's not the technology, it's the company people hate. Microsoft is a convicted monopolist, one that has lost or settled many cases involving stealing of IP which bankrupt small innovative companies over the decades. Lots of people lost their jobs due to these unlawful activities, so the company doesn't have a good reputation from those trying to be innovative in the business. And I think that fact over any other gets people to bash the company and everything they do.

Once again, welcome.