Apple ProCare [Archive] - MacRumors Forums

tgranbois

Apr 1, 2004, 02:29 PM

From looking at the "features" it seems like this just a way to collect MORE money from customers. All these options are already currently available via apple care. The difference is you do this at the store instead of over the phone.

PLUS, I thought if you had applecare all these options were already available. I thought you could bring your mac in with apple care and they'd fix any problem you had. ie. email settings, help copy files, etc..

I dunno, this seems very odd to me. Anyone else?

I currently work for an Apple reseller and i think that this is an excellent idea that we should adapt. Applecare covers hardware issues, and phone support with software issues. We are constantly having to give free technical support to customers because they think that they deserve it, if we could have a specific membership like this it would be great for the store, and allow us to make money in these times of low margins. Last week i spent over 45 mins on the phone with some woman trying to help her out with GraphicConverter because her 'friend' bought an iMac from our store (not from me) and she 'might' be buying one from us.

Some_Big_Spoon

Apr 1, 2004, 02:30 PM

Boy, that would be great for driving sales, right? "Here's these nice machines.. Like 'em? Now go pay $99 for the priviledge to try out one of our outdated hotplates."

What a horrible idea...

"Test-Drive. Try all of the latest Apple hardware in our store, before you buy. "
are you going to have to slide your card in to try a computer now or something?

SilentPanda

Apr 1, 2004, 02:34 PM

# Rapid Repairs. Get priority, next-day turnaround on in-store repairs.

Okay I guess that's nice. I would hope you wouldn't have to use this too often.

# Reserve a Genius. No waiting at our Genius Bar with up to seven-day advance reservations.

Again... not used too often I wouldn't think.

# Complete setup. We’ll transfer your old files and get you ready to roll before you leave the store.

I would think they'd do this for a fee with a new Mac, not a $99 subscription type thing.

# Custom workshops. Book free, one-hour workshops to take your skills further.

Might be nice once they let us know what's in store.

# Exclusive discounts. Get special discounts on selected Apple and third-party products.

Sorta like the .Mac discounts?

# Test-Drive. Try all of the latest Apple hardware in our store, before you buy.

Can't I do this already?

# Price Guarantee. If you see Apple products for less at another store, don’t worry. We’ll match the price.

Because every other store sells Apple products $5 cheaper! *yawn*

# Take It Home Today. Purchase any Mac, software, or accessory from our store inventory and take it with you today.

So if I don't have a pro care card I have to wait for my Mac like I'd have to if I bought a gun?

# My Mac. Let us help you personalize your new Mac by setting up your email and Internet account, installing software, connecting peripherals and more.

My grandmother could set up a Mac. C'mon.

# Genius Bar. Get hands-on support from a Mac Genius during store hours.

Isn't this the same as reserving one? Don't they already do this? Or are they going to snub me now?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Some_Big_Spoon

Apr 1, 2004, 02:50 PM

SiliconAddict

Apr 1, 2004, 02:50 PM

Wait. Am I understanding this right? On top of the anywhere from $170 to $350 apple care they now think they can screw/extort/pillage/[insert some other form of dicking here.] their customers over with this "supposed" preferential treatment. Which in reality probably isn't.

Wow. Being an Apple user is looking more and more enticing by the moment. What next? Apple care with and without free shipping? :rolleyes: Apple Care + with frayed wire service? (A $100 value yours for only $59!!)

Why do I get this image of Jobs dressed in a white pinstriped suit with a flat tophat in a wagon that rolled into bumsville Idaho selling Steve's magic elixir! Guaranteed to cure you of all your aches and pains! Increase your libido 100 fold! Will feed a family of four for 6 months! All yours for the amazing low price of $99!!
NOT!

eSnow

Apr 1, 2004, 02:50 PM

orion123

Apr 1, 2004, 02:55 PM

So what if I don't have AppleCare and my machine is 2.5 years old? Could I buy 1 year of this and then my machine is covered for repairs? Or do I need a warranty before I can even buy ProCare?

Some_Big_Spoon

Apr 1, 2004, 03:02 PM

Say hello to iBilk

ryanw

Apr 1, 2004, 03:04 PM

billyboy

Apr 1, 2004, 03:05 PM

Isnt it a sort of alternative to Applecare. Instead of being supported over the phone and sending your Mac by courier for a several hundred dollars fee, you pay $99 to take your Mac in to a store for attention ahead of Joe schmoe. Like most services, there are aspects that wont appeal to power users, but the Mac is all about computing made easy. This seems to be an attempt at trying to reassure people to switch.

delete

Apr 1, 2004, 03:07 PM

Cart before the horse.. ProCare, but where are the pro machines?
.

I agree. Why not worry about putting out some new equipment before you offer ways to care for it.

dynamicd

Apr 1, 2004, 03:08 PM

I'm thinking that the whole test-driving the hardware might mean you get to bring home a computer for a week or so. Of course they hold onto your credit card or whatever. I don't know, just a guess.

SiliconAddict

Apr 1, 2004, 03:11 PM

I currently work for an Apple reseller and i think that this is an excellent idea that we should adapt. Applecare covers hardware issues, and phone support with software issues. We are constantly having to give free technical support to customers because they think that they deserve it, if we could have a specific membership like this it would be great for the store, and allow us to make money in these times of low margins. Last week i spent over 45 mins on the phone with some woman trying to help her out with GraphicConverter because her 'friend' bought an iMac from our store (not from me) and she 'might' be buying one from us.

You do realize that by snubbing people that come in off the street looking for advice you could very easily push potential and future customers away, right? Example. I have a Linksys router that I was desperately trying to get to work with several friends iBooks. After talking to one of the " geniuses" I narrowed the problem down drastically. They didn't solve it but they helped. If this is going to be the attitude of Apple stores, where typically the average person goes to get help, I would say screw apple. I mean PC users are a dime a dozen. I help people every day with their computers. I see people seeking advice at Best Buy all their time with their home systems. If Apple is going to be an *** about handing out, at least a little, advice screw them.
Now if we are talking about someone who is walking in off the street with their PowerMac, hands it to the resident genius, and says fix it that's a different situation. Sorry but IMHO this bites the big one. In this case the big one being the consumers butt.

SiliconAddict

Apr 1, 2004, 03:12 PM

I'm thinking that the whole test-driving the hardware might mean you get to bring home a computer for a week or so. Of course they hold onto your credit card or whatever. I don't know, just a guess.

THAT would be cool. But if that was the case why the "in our store"?

MacFan782040

Apr 1, 2004, 03:14 PM

I don't understand :confused:

Why is everyone opposed to this? Does it take the place of Applecare or anything? What are we loosing that is currently free? Thanks

ryanw

Apr 1, 2004, 03:15 PM

This smacks of the extended warranty sludge they push on you at circuit city and the like. Meaningless piece of paper (snazzy black card) that offers you little to no benefit and is intended to be a pure for profit model.

They'll get old ladies and newbies to buy the "Fantastic ProCard!!!" and they'll never use it. $99 for Apple..

This is so skuzzy..

I wonder if this is to replace AppleCare or addition to AppleCare? So when you buy a mac you get suggested to pay an additional $200+ for applecare, $99 for procare, and $99 for .Mac. Any other things that they are to suggest people buy? This are all services that Apple customers have loved over the years for free, and now they're slowly getting replaced by having to pay for it. Now that's all great. People should get what they pay for. But these are all things that would help me explain to friends why they should buy a $1200 iMac instead of a $500 eMachine or dell, or whatever. Of course everyone on this forum likes macs for other reasons, but it's hard to get PC people to look at more expensive hardware unless there are lots of free perks. Of course iLife helps, but I don't know... just seems like Apple is trying to go the more PC route with standard support options, but still charging Apple Prices for hardware.

Some_Big_Spoon

Apr 1, 2004, 03:22 PM

It's called fooling the newbies and milking the faithful, neither is any kind of long term business plan.

You've just summed up Apple's rapidly shrinking market share problem quite nicely.

Many, many of us pay a huge premium (on hardware) to use the OS. If OSX ran on anything else, you know that Apple's hardware sales would tank, and tank in a spectacular fashion. They've got us loceked in, those that choose to stay for whatever reason.

Unless they're getting out of the computer business, Apple's got to do something about the hardware problem.

I wonder if this is to replace AppleCare or addition to AppleCare? So when you buy a mac you get suggested to pay an additional $200+ for applecare, $99 for procare, and $99 for .Mac. Any other things that they are to suggest people buy? This are all services that Apple customers have loved over the years for free, and now they're slowly getting replaced by having to pay for it. Now that's all great. People should get what they pay for. But these are all things that would help me explain to friends why they should buy a $1200 iMac instead of a $500 eMachine or dell, or whatever. Of course everyone on this forum likes macs for other reasons, but it's hard to get PC people to look at more expensive hardware unless there are lots of free perks. Of course iLife helps, but I don't know... just seems like Apple is trying to go the more PC route with standard support options, but still charging Apple Prices for hardware.

Fukui

Apr 1, 2004, 03:35 PM

Boy, that would be great for driving sales, right? "Here's these nice machines.. Like 'em? Now go pay $99 for the priviledge to try out one of our outdated hotplates."

Um, maybe they mean carry a trial laptop around/out of of the store for a while and really "test drive it?" Maybe exclusive try outs where others don't have to wait behind you...

dcranston

Apr 1, 2004, 03:35 PM

Guys, stop flipping out at the $99 price tag and actually go to an Apple Store and ask someone the details of this. I was worried too until I did this.

There are actually 2 new packages: StandardCare and ProCare. StandardCare is a BRAND NEW package which is FREE which gives you FREE things like:

- Install Memory/AirPort *FREE* (this used to be $30 if you didn't buy APP -- called MACPAC or something?)
- Various Genius Bar items (including data transfer, etc.) are now FREE -- that USED TO BE PAY

This is not a bad thing. They're now offering additional features with ProCare that you can register for (individual workshops, 24-hour turnaround, advanced genius bar reservations), but it's not required at all, and we're NOT LOSING anything. Repeat: NOT LOSING anything we currently have for free.

PLEASE PLEASE for the love all sanity ask for clarification before you flip out at something like this. And Arn, please clarify your post!! :)

Fukui

Apr 1, 2004, 03:38 PM

I don't understand :confused:

Why is everyone opposed to this? Does it take the place of Applecare or anything? What are we loosing that is currently free? Thanks

Nothing as far as I can tell...
I think people who run a business would appreciate the ability to just walk in and cut right to the chase with out having to wait etc... what's wrong with that? In fact I would appreciate it!

iLife

Apr 1, 2004, 03:54 PM

when i pre-ordered my G5 instore they gave me this G5-esque Apple Store Pro Card ... is that what they mean by first year being free business...? i remember many of the benefits being similair

merge

Apr 1, 2004, 03:56 PM

Um, maybe they mean carry a trial laptop around/out of of the store for a while and really "test drive it?" Maybe exclusive try outs where others don't have to wait behind you...

yeah right.... not a chance...
They only list that because they don't have anything else to list... This program is worthless.
Apple should not be focusing on something like this...

dontmatter

Apr 1, 2004, 04:03 PM

um, when did apple last make an announcment on a thursday?

lynnpye

Apr 1, 2004, 04:05 PM

Why do I get this image of Jobs dressed in a white pinstriped suit with a flat tophat in a wagon that rolled into bumsville Idaho selling Steve's magic elixir! Guaranteed to cure you of all your aches and pains! Increase your libido 100 fold! Will feed a family of four for 6 months! All yours for the amazing low price of $99!!
NOT!

It's called lemonade. Try it. You'll like it.

Some_Big_Spoon

Apr 1, 2004, 04:05 PM

Does this really count as an announcement? Lord, I hope not..

um, when did apple last make an announcment on a thursday?

Fukui

Apr 1, 2004, 04:12 PM

yeah right.... not a chance...
They only list that because they don't have anything else to list... This program is worthless.
Apple should not be focusing on something like this...
Really? I actually find it quite useful. 99 dollars a year for direct/guarenteed service is trivial. Have you ever been to a mircrocenter and asked for service in one day guarenteed on your computer and got it for free? They are ADDING BENIFITS, ADDING ADDING ADDING ADDING. If you don't like the additional benifits, dont pay for it. They will cancel it if no one uses it.

They're not screwing us over like .Mac where everything was free monday and then not the next.

What I'm curious though, is do they support repairs on out-of-warranty systems if you continue to pay for the pro services?

dcranston

Apr 1, 2004, 04:14 PM

yeah right.... not a chance...
They only list that because they don't have anything else to list... This program is worthless.
Apple should not be focusing on something like this...

I challenge you to back that statement up.

They state test-drive as a possibility, you come out a denounce it as impossible, calling the entire program "worthless".

Maybe the services offered by the program are not worth it for you, but does that make it worthless? I run a company, and the ability to know that I can get 24-hour turnaround on repairs, go in and talk to a genius any time without waiting an hour, hands-down is worth $99 on my $6,000 computer purchase. Any other benefits they throw in are just icing on the cake.

But it's called "Pro" -- it's not intended for ordinary consumers. It's intended for people like me who stand to lose thousands of dollars if there's a day of downtime. This is just another way Apple is pushing into the business/enterprise market.

Everyone keeps saying Apple needs to push into the Business market more, right? Then stop assuming every decision Apple makes is geared toward you, a consumer. Sheesh!

andybouchard

Apr 1, 2004, 04:19 PM

Well I recieved a pro card last summer with my G5 purchase, so I'm going to go get a ProCare card just for the heck of it. What can it hurt, right?? :)

Some_Big_Spoon

Apr 1, 2004, 04:19 PM

24 hour turn around on in store repairs, not all repairs. Most of those, if not all, you can do yourself.. but i guess there's the threat of voiding the warranty.. scare tactics, ugh..

I guess in NYC, Chicago, San Fran (and the like) there's a wait at the genius bar, but I've been to dozens of Apple Stores around the country and I've never, ever, ever seen a wait at the genius bar.. but i'm guessing i'll be labeled an anomaly in nanoseconds...

I challenge you to back that statement up.

They state test-drive as a possibility, you come out a denounce it as impossible, calling the entire program "worthless".

Maybe the services offered by the program are not worth it for you, but does that make it worthless? I run a company, and the ability to know that I can get 24-hour turnaround on repairs, go in and talk to a genius any time without waiting an hour, hands-down is worth $99 on my $6,000 computer purchase. Any other benefits they throw in are just icing on the cake.

But it's called "Pro" -- it's not intended for ordinary consumers. It's intended for people like me who stand to lose thousands of dollars if there's a day of downtime. This is just another way Apple is pushing into the business/enterprise market.

Everyone keeps saying Apple needs to push into the Business market more, right? Then stop assuming every decision Apple makes is geared toward you, a consumer. Sheesh!

chubad

Apr 1, 2004, 04:26 PM

I agree that this is just a weak attempt to squeeze some 100% profit $$ from the people who don't know any better.
Wow, they will install an Airport card and memory for free. That's a pretty tough and labor intesive task isn't it. :rolleyes:
Lets see, Apple Care and Pro Care customers get priority repairs while the people who have to pay full price for repairs can be pushed to the back of the line. Nice.
Even if very few people buy this rubbish look for it to be around for a long time as it is pure profit for Apple.
Not that I'm against Apple making $$ but how about selling some updated computers and software to make $$.
Lot's of folks are sitting on cash waiting to buy a Rev. B Powermac or Powerbook.

Fukui

Apr 1, 2004, 04:30 PM

24 hour turn around on in store repairs, not all repairs. Most of those, if not all, you can do yourself...

Really? Again, if you are running a business, you have NO TIME to Dic around with your computer. You tell your assistantor or whatever to take it down and give them the card and to fix it. Boom, you don't worry about it till it comes back. If you ever had to pay for an IT man, I guarentee you it'll be more expensive to let him fix it if something goes wrong more than once. Again, this is not for you if you want to/can make your own repairs. This is for people that don't want to/can't waste they're time on it, IOW 90% of business and consumers.

Again, they didn't take anything away, so why the complaining?

Fukui

Apr 1, 2004, 04:31 PM

Wow, they will install an Airport card and memory for free. That's a pretty tough and labor intesive task isn't it..
Tell that to my girlfiend...she'll say yea it is.

billyboy

Apr 1, 2004, 04:57 PM

ImAlwaysRight

Apr 1, 2004, 05:04 PM

Isnt it a sort of alternative to Applecare. Instead of being supported over the phone and sending your Mac by courier for a several hundred dollars fee, you pay $99 to take your Mac in to a store for attention ahead of Joe schmoe.

So Pro users get to push my warranty work back farther? Ugh. Last time I took in my iBook to an Apple Store due to a failed hard drive (after 3 months of use), it took Apple 2 weeks to get it back to me. Horrible, horrible service. Now that will take longer due to "Pro" users?

I agree with those that have posted, this is good for business customers, but stinks for the majority of users.

Fukui

Apr 1, 2004, 05:20 PM

Last time I took in my iBook to an Apple Store due to a failed hard drive (after 3 months of use), it took Apple 2 weeks to get it back to me..

Thats too long to wait for something like that.

bathysphere

Apr 1, 2004, 05:22 PM

Yet again, MacRumors marketing experts rip into an Apple marketing plan before they even know what it is about, or thought it through from the perspective of the intended market. iPod, iPodmini, .Mac with 87% renewal rate, ProCare? - the list is growing naysayers :D

people buying into this crap doesn't bless it with value.
and this thing is really useless. you can say it's for pro users all you want, but it doesn't offer pro service. it's just mediocre, and overpriced... seems to be a theme at apple.

ITR 81

Apr 1, 2004, 05:34 PM

# Rapid Repairs. Get priority, next-day turnaround on in-store repairs.

Okay I guess that's nice. I would hope you wouldn't have to use this too often.
(Faster is always better. A PC user would buy it just for this alone because they do not like to wait. Trust me I was one of them and I used to repair them all the time.)

# Reserve a Genius. No waiting at our Genius Bar with up to seven-day advance reservations.

Again... not used too often I wouldn't think.
(PC user doesn't like to wait and I knowl don't.)

# Complete setup. We’ll transfer your old files and get you ready to roll before you leave the store.

I would think they'd do this for a fee with a new Mac, not a $99 subscription type thing.
(No PC company will do this for free so why should Apple. Most PC users want their old files on their new Macs.)

# Custom workshops. Book free, one-hour workshops to take your skills further.

Might be nice once they let us know what's in store.
(Good for first time users and PC users that just switched. Not everyone is a PC or Mac guru.)

# Exclusive discounts. Get special discounts on selected Apple and third-party products.

Sorta like the .Mac discounts?
(Nope more like pricing discounts, but I don't care because I already get discounts from Apple.)

# Test-Drive. Try all of the latest Apple hardware in our store, before you buy.

Can't I do this already?
(Not with it configured like you want it. Yeah they got some demo models, but none are maxed out like I want my Macs.)

# Price Guarantee. If you see Apple products for less at another store, don’t worry. We’ll match the price.

Because every other store sells Apple products $5 cheaper! *yawn*
(PC users are cheap and every dollar counts. I know it does to me.)

# Take It Home Today. Purchase any Mac, software, or accessory from our store inventory and take it with you today.

So if I don't have a pro care card I have to wait for my Mac like I'd have to if I bought a gun?
(No it only means a Pro user gets priority over your Mac...when it has to be configured to your liking.)

# My Mac. Let us help you personalize your new Mac by setting up your email and Internet account, installing software, connecting peripherals and more.

My grandmother could set up a Mac. C'mon.
(Mine can't and most PC users have to be step through this process or atleast when I worked for Verizon DSL.)

# Genius Bar. Get hands-on support from a Mac Genius during store hours.

Isn't this the same as reserving one? Don't they already do this? Or are they going to snub me now?
(No, reserving only gives you that a reserved spot and nothing more. Mac Genius advice is still free but not when you bring in your out of warranty machine in for them to fix.)

:confused: :confused: :confused:
This service is more for folks that need things fast and quick and switchers or first time computer buyers.
Being negative makes you sound just like one those that said the iPod mini would fail.

oingoboingo

Apr 1, 2004, 05:37 PM

I wonder if this is to replace AppleCare or addition to AppleCare? So when you buy a mac you get suggested to pay an additional $200+ for applecare, $99 for procare, and $99 for .Mac. Any other things that they are to suggest people buy?

Yeah, don't forget your yearly $129 Mac OS X subscription fee, and your new $49 annual iLife subscription.

Let's see... $200 + $99 + $99 + $129 + $49 = $576.

$576...the cost of a whole new PC. I've said it before...Steve is seriously pushing for an even 1% market share this year. It will make all sorts of calculations so much easier. No nasty '2.45%' type figures to deal with. I'd say he's well on the way!

panthman

Apr 1, 2004, 05:40 PM

ok, I too stopped into the Apple Store to ask a few questions cause this sounded pretty lame to me at first.

Basically, nothing currently happening is going away...

There is this new thing called standard care that you used to only get when you bought a computer and the applecare, now EVERYONE who buys a computer gets it - free airport/ram installs, sortware updates, printer/scanner drivers - for anyone who buys a computer.

Then there is pro care - $99 a year for 24 hour repairs on desktops, 48 hours on laptops - wow, if you can't be without the computer, that's worth it (basically if you are complaining about waiting two weeks for a repair, would it be worth $99 to get it back overnight??? something to think about..) - maybe we feel as if we shouldn't have to wait but when i worked at circuit city you were lucky to see your computer back in a month!!!! 2 weeks sounds pretty reasonable to me! (and you can also book an appt with a mac genius a week in advance!)

it looks like a lot of the junk on that page is marketing crap.... of course we all get to try out the computer, or course we can take the computer home with us - they said that they're not taking anything away, just adding some new stuff - so yeah, they're trying to make it sound better than it is, but if you can't function without your computer... i guess $99 could be worth it

(oh yeah, and pro care does not pay for service, that is either under warranty or paid for - pro care makes it fast)

p-man

Fukui

Apr 1, 2004, 05:45 PM

Yeah, don't forget your yearly $129 Mac OS X subscription fee, and your new $49 annual iLife subscription.

Let's see... $200 + $99 + $99 + $129 + $49 = $576.

$576...the cost of a whole new PC. I've said it before...Steve is seriously pushing for an even 1% market share this year. It will make all sorts of calculations so much easier. No nasty '2.45%' type figures to deal with. I'd say he's well on the way!
You don't need .Mac (which was a mistake to be free in the first place), you don't need yearly OS X updates, you dont need iLife upgrade every year, you don't need applecare. Even Dell or Sony doesn't offer an extended warranty unless you pay more. If you want it, you buy it, its that simple. Its amazing what people will complain about when there is nothing to complain about. If for some bizzare reason someone feels obligated to buy all that then there is something wrong...with them.

ITR 81

Apr 1, 2004, 05:47 PM

csubear

Apr 1, 2004, 05:48 PM

Okay okay, so this is not the end of the world. But what is this take it home today stuff? Do i have to pay $99 to take home my $2500 powerbook, today? Please somebody let me know what this is about.

Fukui

Apr 1, 2004, 05:53 PM

ITR 81

Apr 1, 2004, 05:57 PM

Yeah, don't forget your yearly $129 Mac OS X subscription fee, and your new $49 annual iLife subscription.

Let's see... $200 + $99 + $99 + $129 + $49 = $576.

$576...the cost of a whole new PC. I've said it before...Steve is seriously pushing for an even 1% market share this year. It will make all sorts of calculations so much easier. No nasty '2.45%' type figures to deal with. I'd say he's well on the way!

Not right.
If you buy a new OS upgrade then you get the newest iLife for free.
Not everyone will buy AppleCare, ProCare, or .Mac
Did I buy any of the above? No. I've only ever bought AppleCare for my iPod. I usually only pay $69 bucks a yr and that includes my OS upgrade and the newest iLife ver.

jsw

Apr 1, 2004, 05:58 PM

As with other G5 owners, I get my first year free, so I'll try it out. Another benefit of buying early and dealing with rev A hardware, I guess.

As to anyone else who thinks it's a rip-off: don't get it. It's that simple. It's not like Apple's forcing you to buy it.

As far as "take it home today" is concerned, I'm guessing that's if you get data transferred or have RAM and/or an AirPort installed. I'm sure they won't hold the box for a day or two if you don't buy ProCare, and I'm sure that 99% of the time the other services are done that day anyway - this is just a guarantee.

For business owners who use Macs, this is a no-brainer. Use it once and its paid for. For those of us who buy G5s but who really don't use them day in and day out to run a business, well, it probably isn't worth it.

dcranston

Apr 1, 2004, 05:58 PM

You don't need .Mac (which was a mistake to be free in the first place), you don't need yearly OS X updates, you dont need iLife upgrade every year, you don't need applecare. Even Dell or Sony doesn't offer an extended warranty unless you pay more. If you want it, you buy it, its that simple. Its amazing what people will complain about when there is nothing to complain about. If for some bizzare reason someone feels obligated to buy all that then there is something wrong...with them.

Amen Fukui. I can come up with my own list of prices:

Don't forget the $30/month broadband internet bill and the $50/year electric bill for running your computer and the bi-yearly updates to Final Cut Pro for $200 and Shake has a new version, so another $5,000 to shell out, plus the new Adobe Creative Suite at $999... Let's see...

$30 x 12months + $50 + $200 + $5,000 + $999 = almost $6,600!

They've got to be kidding! I could buy a top of the line Mac! Oh and Microsoft Office for $399 ($499 for Pro)...

I guess we've got good evidence that Comcast, PG&E, Apple, Adobe, and Microsoft are all running their market share to the ground.

Get real, guys! Nobody makes you pay for any of this! If you want it, you buy it! Saying Apple makes you pay $99 for ProCare or $99 for .Mac or $49 for iLife or anything is like complaining that, since Apple has 500,000 songs on iTunes, they're making you pay $500,000. Sheesh -- just another way for Apple to make money.

iTunes was free before, but now you have to pay if you want to download songs from the music store.

(see the similarity: retail stores have free policies, but you have to pay if you want additional features.)

oingoboingo

Apr 1, 2004, 06:00 PM

Really? Again, if you are running a business, you have NO TIME to Dic around with your computer. You tell your assistantor or whatever to take it down and give them the card and to fix it. Boom, you don't worry about it till it comes back. If you ever had to pay for an IT man, I guarentee you it'll be more expensive to let him fix it if something goes wrong more than once. Again, this is not for you if you want to/can make your own repairs. This is for people that don't want to/can't waste they're time on it, IOW 90% of business and consumers.

Again, they didn't take anything away, so why the complaining?

Step back and look at the big picture. Apple's standard warranty is awful. 90 days phone support and 1 year return-to-base? What is it? A bag of potato chips? You shouldn't need to be taking your Mac back to a store at all when it breaks down...it's called an ON SITE WARRANTY. Dell hands them out with their crappiest entry level PC for a year, and even with extended AppleCare you don't get this kind of basic level service for notebooks...it's only for desktops. And no, "but you can bring your notebook in for repair easily" isn't an answer. What if the nearest store is a 4 hour drive? What if you've got deadlines?

Apple gets away with a) hardware pricing at the very high end of the market b) gives you a cheap'n'nasty 90 day phone/1 year back to base warranty c) asks that you pay extra to bring the phone support up to its competitor's standard, and then the extended warranty still doesn't have on-site servicing, and now d) introduces ANOTHER pay-for-service option, designed to alleviate the basic symptoms of points a, b, and c, without treating the root cause.

We can all argue about this until we're all blue in the face, but the reality is that the Macs market share is very small, and is continuing to fall. There's only one person who can judge a marketing idea as right or wrong, and that's the customer. Right now, the customers have been judging Apple's moves as "Wrong", and are giving their money to someone else (talking about Macs here, Walkman-replacements aside). We'll see if this new plan of charging people even more money for stuff turns things around.

dcranston

Apr 1, 2004, 06:01 PM

Okay okay, so this is not the end of the world. But what is this take it home today stuff? Do i have to pay $99 to take home my $2500 powerbook, today? Please somebody let me know what this is about.

Basically it means that if you buy your powerbook today and want to get an airport card or something installed, they can't guarantee you can take it home that day. (of course, if you just buy the product from the shelf, then you'll of course get it the same day). ProCare just ensures that those installs will take place right away.

iJon

Apr 1, 2004, 06:01 PM

I currently work for an Apple reseller and i think that this is an excellent idea that we should adapt.
real excellent when only apple stores can offer this huh?

iJon

oingoboingo

Apr 1, 2004, 06:06 PM

Not right.
If you buy a new OS upgrade then you get the newest iLife for free.
Not everyone will buy AppleCare, ProCare, or .Mac
Did I buy any of the above? No. I've only ever bought AppleCare for my iPod. I usually only pay $69 bucks a yr and that includes my OS upgrade and the newest iLife ver.

Quick question on that...if I go and buy a boxed copy of Panther now, does it include iLife '04, or the version of iLife that was released with Panther last October?

Skiniftz

Apr 1, 2004, 06:06 PM

Perhaps next they will have support where you can call them up and they can actually answer your question without having to duplicate your hardware in a lab and charging you three hundred quid just to tell you something cant be done.

mmcxiiad

Apr 1, 2004, 06:10 PM

Ok after reading this over i have had an interesting idea - what if some of these "exclusive services and offers" were combined to a more concise list. For example combine the following:

Rapid Repairs: Get priority, next-day turnaround on in-store repairs.
Test-Drive: Try all of the latest Apple hardware in our store, before you buy.

now you get priority on in-store repairs AND testing hardware out in the store

This way when you walk into to the store and there is some guy playing on the new g5 15' holographic powerbook, you just reach into you wallet and produce your procare card to any apple store employee. He then gives you that patented apple wink and smile and lets you know everything will be ok. The next thing you know 2 guys with faded blue jeans and black mock turtle neck shirts come over and escort the guy over to an old imac in the kids area. Violla - the magic of procare!!!

Reserve a Genius: No waiting at our Genius Bar with up to seven-day advance reservations.
Take It Home Today: Purchase any Mac, software, or accessory from our store inventory and take it with you today.

Now you get this: No more waiting. Purchase any Mac, software, or accessory from our store inventory and take it and a Genius home with you today.

Not everyone would need this, but if you convince your complete computer enept reletive to convert from windows to OSX the mac genius can field the first 5 hours of "What happened to the start button? Where is my C:\ Drive? How can i put in a cd if i don't see the cd drive? WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH ALL OF THESE FLOPPY DISKS?!?!"

Seriously though, i am interested in the exclusive discounts. This could be the area that they make the card with it. but if it is going to be the same crappy offers that come with .mac then it won't be worth it.

I realize that we don't have all of the information on this, but lest face it, they ARE capitalizing on things that don't need to be paid for. Really half of the items are standard features that anyone and everyone can enjoy at any apple store without paying for an exclusive membership into the procare club, buying anything ever from apple or even owning a mac.

The other thing that will be interesting is the price matching. Due to apples marketing, pricing on items vary such a small amount that this is not really worth pursueing. Now if they are willing to match the offer that will be a different story. While the price may always be the same, often times other deallers offer incentives like gettting free extra ram or a huge discount on software. if they are willing to do this then again, the procare may be worth much much more then its wait in...

...plastic.

well, that is my 2 cents.

Eric

dcranston

Apr 1, 2004, 06:14 PM

Step back and look at the big picture. Apple's standard warranty is awful.

But here's the point you're missing, and why AppleCare consistently wins Consumer Reports best Service every year:

AppleCare and the warranty with your product covers your entire purchase: hardware & software. While you mention service plans provided by Dell, you fail to mention that when you call Dell with an issue, they blame Microsoft. You call Microsoft, and they want $40 just to talk to you, with no guarantee of an answer. I paid the $40 once, and they REFERRED ME BACK TO DELL! I called Dell, they said it was definitely software-based, and wasn't something they could help me out with or that was covered under their warranty.

Fine, so I decided to go to Best Buy to just ask someone a question about it. They refused to offer any advice or information without paying. So I paid the stupid $30 and they determined it needed to be "sent in", despite the on-site warranty that I supposedly had -- Dell refused to honor it since they said it wasn't hardware-related, and M$ claimed it was hardware... so Best Buy took it in, and 8 WEEKS LATER I finally get it back -- all dinged up, scratched, and I'm pissed... but sure enough, the contract I signed erased any blame from Best Buy.

This is the kind of crap you have to put up with in the PC world. This is but one of my experiences. Now I know things go wrong on Macs, and Apple's support isn't incredible, but you can walk in to an Apple Store, ask a question, not get charged, have them take a look at it, give you an honest estimate of the price if you don't have protection, or if you do, they'll just fix it, no questions asked.

THAT is why Apple Support remains strong. Seriously, do your homework and compare the real-world experience with these other companies, not just what it claims on paper. On-site repairs are only as good as their ability to not blame someone else for the problem.

jsw

Apr 1, 2004, 06:14 PM

Quick question on that...if I go and buy a boxed copy of Panther now, does it include iLife '04, or the version of iLife that was released with Panther last October?

The October version.

Fukui

Apr 1, 2004, 06:19 PM

Step back and look at the big picture. Apple's standard warranty is awful. 90 days phone support and 1 year return-to-base? What is it? A bag of potato chips? You shouldn't need to be taking your Mac back to a store at all when it breaks down...it's called an ON SITE WARRANTY. Dell hands them out with their crappiest entry level PC for a year, and even with extended AppleCare you don't get this kind of basic level service for notebooks...it's only for desktops. And no, "but you can bring your notebook in for repair easily" isn't an answer. What if the nearest store is a 4 hour drive? What if you've got deadlines?

If the store is far, then maybe...you dont pay for the 99 pro package?
Maybe you send it in?

Apple gets away with a) hardware pricing at the very high end of the market b) gives you a cheap'n'nasty 90 day phone/1 year back to base warranty c) asks that you pay extra to bring the phone support up to its competitor's standard, and then the extended warranty still doesn't have on-site servicing, and now d) introduces ANOTHER pay-for-service option, designed to alleviate the basic symptoms of points a, b, and c, without treating the root cause.

Then why is it that Sony (who has no excuse to charge for more) only has a one year limited warranty, no phone support, and you have to pay more for three years (just now an option BTW), yet they sell more than Apple?
Please explain this too me? Why is it that Dell with thier unintelligible phone service in India manages to have such a great reputation?

As for in home service, Ive had enough with smelly sweaty TV repairmen in my house I would rather bring it to an apple store and have it fixed or send it over night.

oingoboingo

Apr 1, 2004, 06:39 PM

But here's the point you're missing, and why AppleCare consistently wins Consumer Reports best Service every year:

Granted. Personally I think those surveys are corrupted by ballot-stuffers and apologists, but that's just my opinion.

AppleCare and the warranty with your product covers your entire purchase: hardware & software. While you mention service plans provided by Dell, you fail to mention that when you call Dell with an issue, they blame Microsoft. You call Microsoft, and they want $40 just to talk to you, with no guarantee of an answer. I paid the $40 once, and they REFERRED ME BACK TO DELL! I called Dell, they said it was definitely software-based, and wasn't something they could help me out with or that was covered under their warranty.

It's disappointing that you had a bad experience. It shouldn't have happened. The copy of Windows you get from Dell is an OEM copy, so your OEM is responsible for handling support of that product. But to counter your own personal story, I have 2 stories of co-workers with Dell desktops, one who had a Dell phone operator help them getting a printer driver issue sorted out (and it wasn't even a Dell supplied printer), and another who had some CD burning software issues fixed over the phone. They were both very happy with Dell's software support.

With regards to hardware, I also have a personal Dell vs. Apple story. My Inspiron 4100's IBM Travelstar hard drive started making clicking noises, and occassionally wouldn't spin up. I called Dell late in the afternoon to report the problem, and by 10am the next day, a Dell tech. was at my office, replaced the hard drive, and left me the old hard drive and a return postage box, as I wanted to attempt data recovery. All in all, what I would call excellent service. On-site repair is part of the standard Dell warranty.

When my new 1.6GHz G5 arrived and was crashing and freezing straight out of the box, I needed to pack everything up, take an afternoon off work, and take it back to an Apple dealer. 2 weeks later, a replacement system turns up, but now this one has the 'black screen of death' problem with its Radeon 9600 video card. Another trip back to an Apple dealer to get that one fixed before the warranty runs out...I just need to pick a time when I'm not going to need the G5 for work. If there was an onsite warranty, it wouldn't be a problem...the video card just needs to be swapped.

So, that's my real world experience and my homework done. I'm not saying that the actual quality of Apple's phone support isn't good...I found them to be helpful and friendly when I was calling about my G5. What gets me is that for the premium price you pay for an Apple, the basics of the warranty agreement don't even stack up to that provided with a $500 Dell desktop. 90 days phone support, 1 year return to base? It wouldn't matter if you got a free foot massage and a 5-course banquet while you waited for a Genius to look at your problem...that's still a lacklustre warranty, it doesn't compare to what the competition is offering. The only kind of 'professional' a return-to-base warranty is suitable for is a courier driver, since they obviously don't mind driving around all day dropping off packages to people.

So we're right back to where we started I suppose...you've had a crappy experience with Dell, I've had good experiences, you've had good experiences with Apple, I've had mediocre ones. Now let's all take a moment to sit back and pray that nothing ever goes wrong with our shiny pretty glittery expensive hardware.

oingoboingo

Apr 1, 2004, 06:46 PM

As for in home service, Ive had enough with smelly sweaty TV repairmen in my house I would rather bring it to an apple store and have it fixed or send it over night.

That's great. I'd prefer someone to come and fix my system (and for things like hard drive, AirPort, RAM, keyboard etc. these things can be replaced instantly) without me needing to take time off work, waste time and fuel acting as a courier service, or sit around and stare at a blank monitor while my Mac is shipped off to a service centre somewhere and them wait for it to be shipped back at some point in the future. But I'm happy that you're happy with the current warranty you have. Personally I think it can be better.

DaBuzz

Apr 1, 2004, 06:50 PM

Fukui

Apr 1, 2004, 06:52 PM

Personally I think it can be better.
Well, to be honest, I haven't needed my warranty (after 4 years). But I do think things can always be better, and there's nothing wrong with telling apple you think they should be, it would be great if they added a year to the hardware and made the phone be a year, but then again, when you can go the apple store and get the same thing in person for free, well, I prefer that. But a two year at least warranty would definitaly garner more confidence...

I have to say though, compared to a lot of companies Apple definitily isn't the devil that people make them out to be.

DaBuzz

Apr 1, 2004, 06:54 PM

Oh, and the other thing that REALLY ticked me off about AppleCare are its tech-support hours: 6 AM to 6 PM Central time. Since I am in San Francisco, by the time i finish work and get home from the gym, forget about calling Apple. If I get the ProCare, (I think) I'll have until the store closes to get some support.

Docrjm

Apr 1, 2004, 06:58 PM

Say hello to iBilk

That's the consumer version, a bargain at $200....They willl obviously use it more freq.

oingoboingo

Apr 1, 2004, 07:09 PM

Well, to be honest, I haven't needed my warranty (after 4 years). But I do think things can always be better, and there's nothing wrong with telling apple you think they should be, it would be great if they added a year to the hardware and made the phone be a year, but then again, when you can go the apple store and get the same thing in person for free, well, I prefer that. But a two year at least warranty would definitaly garner more confidence...

I have to say though, compared to a lot of companies Apple definitily isn't the devil that people make them out to be.

The relatively short Apple warranty, and the lack of on-site support are actually the only reasons stopping my parents (who live in a regional area of New South Wales (Australia), outside of the major cities) from replacing their creaky old 450MHz AMD K6-based Compaq Presario with something like an eMac. My mother has had some horrendous out-of-warranty experiences with the local 'PC repairers', who would barely know a computer from a typewriter. She will probably end up getting a Dell, because of the long phone-support period, and the fact that Dell will send out an authorised technician to fix any problems, without needing to rely on the dubious local dealers and service people.

It's kind of funny actually...I'll be telling my mother about all the cool stuff she could be using iLife for, and how she could stop worrying about all the stupid Windows 98 viruses and all the rest of that, and she'll be going "Yeah, sounds really good...so how long was it you had to wait for your G5 to be repaired again? And have you carted it back to the dealer for that other video problem you were telling me about?" :)

Hopefully I'll be in the same boat as you when I get my Radeon 9600 replaced in the G5 (ie: 4 years of trouble free service). It's just a very expensive risk to take, and again, for the prices which Apple charges, I think they could possibly stand to at least bring their standard warranty into line with their major competitors. As everyone keeps telling me, "Apple hardware is of a much better quality than Dells!". So...shouldn't it break less often then? Why skimp on warranty details like phone support and on-site repair?

ionas

Apr 1, 2004, 07:19 PM

I wonder what Apple Care is for now,
I can still order Apple Care with a PowerMac in the store,
so what is Apple Care for, and what is Pro Care for?

togather it would be 350 USD...?!

Fukui

Apr 1, 2004, 07:38 PM

As everyone keeps telling me, "Apple hardware is of a much better quality than Dells!". So...shouldn't it break less often then? Why skimp on warranty details like phone support and on-site repair?

Well, I wonder how much on site repair men cost...If apple is barely scraping profits quarter to quarter, maybe if they made more money from iPod or something that would help. You gotta remember too that those big competitors have lots and lots of money to throw around...where apple doesn't seem to. I dont know, I have this strange feeling apple is moving to a more direct sales like Dell but with retail stores to have local help...when you think about it, a local apple store would be the best place besides an outside contractor for on-site repair men...interesting.

dcranston

Apr 1, 2004, 07:50 PM

I wonder what Apple Care is for now,
I can still order Apple Care with a PowerMac in the store,
so what is Apple Care for, and what is Pro Care for?

togather it would be 350 USD...?!

ProCare won't give you protection, it just gives you a higher level of priority basically. So without AppleCare, ProCare will still give you 24-hour turnaround repair, but you'll have to pay whatever the repair costs are.

Make sense?

So you can have one without the other; they don't do the same thing at all. Although, it seems the people who would be interested in ProCare would also be interested in AppleCare... just not necessarily the other way around.

superfoo

Apr 1, 2004, 07:51 PM

What does the "in-store repair" encompass? Just basic stuff that's outlined in the hardware manual, or more complicated repairs, such as laptop displays, etc.?

I'm on my second Tibook -- the first one being replaced after coming back unrepaired from *three* round-trips to Apple's Texas repair center, and the second one still having to make two round-trips for repair, due to damages caused during the first repair attempt... Lots of frustration, and lots of wasted time and productivity.

With that, I'd GLADLY pay $99 extra for true in-store repair service... But with the vague and unimpressive features touted with this card, I'm a bit pessimistic on all that.

Some_Big_Spoon

Apr 1, 2004, 07:53 PM

You're 100% wrong. Panther does not come with iLife. So, it's $129 + $49

Not right.
If you buy a new OS upgrade then you get the newest iLife for free.
Not everyone will buy AppleCare, ProCare, or .Mac
Did I buy any of the above? No. I've only ever bought AppleCare for my iPod. I usually only pay $69 bucks a yr and that includes my OS upgrade and the newest iLife ver.

joemama

Apr 1, 2004, 08:01 PM

ARRRGHHH!!

I almost can't stand to read all of this complaining!!!

For the love of G*D PEOPLE, just don't pay the $99 bucks......

jsw

Apr 1, 2004, 08:10 PM

You're 100% wrong. Panther does not come with iLife. So, it's $129 + $49

No, not 100% wrong. Panther come with iMovie, iPhoto, and iTunes. It doesn't come with iDVD or GarageBand. So, yeah, not iLife '04. But much of iLife.

rdowns

Apr 1, 2004, 08:16 PM

AngryLawnGnome

Apr 1, 2004, 08:25 PM

This is crap. We already dish out tons of money for their damn computers. Why should we have to pay more for good service? Lord knows the Apple store sucks at that already. Now they're going to make it even worse because some people are willing to pay a hundred bucks and buy into this garbage. Why on earth do they feel the need to do this?

oingoboingo

Apr 1, 2004, 08:27 PM

Enough with the bitching and moaning people. If you don't see the value in it, don't buy it.

Sorry, we were all under the impression that this was an open discussion forum for talking about Apple's products and services...even the ones which some people don't like. But you go ahead and buy the ProCard...it sounds like you will get value for money out of it and you'll be really happy with it. Not everyone is of that opinion though.

jsw

Apr 1, 2004, 08:29 PM

This is crap. We already dish out tons of money for their damn computers. Why should we have to pay more for good service? Lord knows the Apple store sucks at that already.

There's a vast number of Wintel vendors who would be happy to have your money. I've not had any problems with either Apple Care or with service from Apple. Maybe I'm just lucky. But if you think the service sucks, take your business elsewhere.

jsw

Apr 1, 2004, 08:32 PM

Sorry, we were all under the impression that this was an open discussion forum for talking about Apple's products and services...even the ones which some people don't like. But you go ahead and buy the ProCard...it sounds like you will get value for money out of it and you'll be really happy with it. Not everyone is of that opinion though.

There is a difference between (a) having an opinion that a particular Apple product or service is not worth the price, and (b) ranting about how terrible it is that Apple has decided once again to screw us with another massive fee. If ProCare were mandatory, the posters would have a point. It isn't. They still have a point, but it's hidden behind the misguided rants.

nagromme

Apr 1, 2004, 08:37 PM

I have an idea:

Let's all jump on this program as if it were taking things away from us, BEFORE we know the details.

Sound fun? :)

AngryLawnGnome

Apr 1, 2004, 08:39 PM

There's a vast number of Wintel vendors who would be happy to have your money. I've not had any problems with either Apple Care or with service from Apple. Maybe I'm just lucky. But if you think the service sucks, take your business elsewhere.
Don't get me wrong - I love Apple - and they sure do a great job of fixing your computer at the Apple store, but from experience I know that it takes literally an hour just to pick up your computer after it's been fixed, when all they have to do is have you sign a form. When I took my Powerbook in to get fixed, there were five employees working there (that I could see) and four people crowded around the genius bar waiting for help. I was in the store for two hours. The actual time it took me to tell them my problem and show them that I have Apple Care was about ten minutes. This is the terrible service I was talking about. Now they want to charge more money so that people can cut in front of people like me who know what a rip off this is, and waste their time. It's already a hassle to go there, and now it's a hassle that you can pay a hundred bucks to deal with. Apple doesn't need my hundred dollars. I already bought Apple Care.

rdowns

Apr 1, 2004, 08:49 PM

Fukui

Apr 1, 2004, 08:53 PM

You're 100% wrong. Panther does not come with iLife. So, it's $129 + $49
Actually it does come with iLife. Just not 2004. New macs do however.

oingoboingo

Apr 1, 2004, 08:59 PM

I have an idea:

Let's all jump on this program as if it were taking things away from us, BEFORE we know the details.

Sound fun? :)

Damn right it does! Has everyone complaining about the complaining forgotten what this forum and web site is about? Rumours! Talking about rumours! Speculating! Shooting your mouth off without all the facts! :)

Seriously...what do people expect? Would anyone bother to read Macrumors.com if all people were willing to say was "Yes, this is potentially an interesting development. However, I will not comment further until all the details are publically available and I have had time to trial the product, conduct a detailed investigation and prepare a 75 page competitive analysis of its position in the marketplace." Blah. Unless Steve Jobs and the Apple executives are posting here, it's all just about opinionated enthusiasts arguing with each other over plans, products and marketing campaigns which we have the most minimal understanding of. And it's great. :D

Err, sorry, so back on topic. When will Apple bring this ProCard stuff to Australia so I can complain about it locally?!?!?!?

AngryLawnGnome

Apr 1, 2004, 09:20 PM

...Has everyone complaining about the complaining forgotten what this forum and web site is about? Rumours! Talking about rumours! Speculating! Shooting your mouth off without all the facts!...
This announcement is a fact. The details are listed on Apple's site. But I'm with you; Macrumors kicks ass.

garybooberry

Apr 1, 2004, 09:39 PM

Paying off the mob for good service.

I love Apple, but won't bite on this one.

rtdunham

Apr 1, 2004, 10:42 PM

from apple's announcement: "Purchase any Mac, software, or accessory from our store inventory and take it with you today."

I mean, if THAT isn't worth $99/year, what is? I hate it when i buy a book at Barnes & Noble but have to pass the three-day waiting period before I can go back and get it. And when i bought that frig at sears, i almost died waiting for the two-day cooling off period to pass. It's going to be a real thrill, seeing a product in inventory at the store, and knowing that i can pay for it at the register and TAKE IT WITH ME!!!!

So THAT is what those bags are for. Wondered....

terry dunham :rolleyes:

Some_Big_Spoon

Apr 1, 2004, 10:45 PM

Nero played his fiddle as Rome burned.

This is crap. We already dish out tons of money for their damn computers. Why should we have to pay more for good service? Lord knows the Apple store sucks at that already. Now they're going to make it even worse because some people are willing to pay a hundred bucks and buy into this garbage. Why on earth do they feel the need to do this?

Some_Big_Spoon

Apr 1, 2004, 10:49 PM

Some_Big_Spoon

Apr 1, 2004, 11:03 PM

Isn't Apple's problem right now, without this that people specifically aren't walking out of Apple's stores with products?:rolleyes: I don't think they'll be denying people older machines, just letting the pheebs that fork out the $99 "reserve" new machines for release day pickup. Maybe it's just for the drooling Mac Addicts (read apologizers) to make sure they get the latest gadget.. right now! *sigh* Makes you want to sell suger water instead of changing the world..

from apple's announcement: "Purchase any Mac, software, or accessory from our store inventory and take it with you today."

I mean, if THAT isn't worth $99/year, what is? I hate it when i buy a book at Barnes & Noble but have to pass the three-day waiting period before I can go back and get it. And when i bought that frig at sears, i almost died waiting for the two-day cooling off period to pass. It's going to be a real thrill, seeing a product in inventory at the store, and knowing that i can pay for it at the register and TAKE IT WITH ME!!!!

So THAT is what those bags are for. Wondered....

terry dunham :rolleyes:

mikeintosh

Apr 1, 2004, 11:22 PM

I would've bought this for my 17" PowerBook if the SF store had been open at the time...

I sent my laptop in on 2/3 due to white spots and failed AirPort antenna. By 2/23, the repair still wasn't complete. I was furious - why the hell did I pay $349 for AppleCare and be without my primary Mac? Apple, to its credit, completely replaced the machine and I had a brand new PowerBook on 2/27. That obviously speaks more for their customer service than for their support.

I went to the Apple Store today, and got a description of the plan. I've got to say, since I depend on my Mac so much for work (and my employer doesn't support Macs), and I have to support it myself, I am considering this. I wouldn't have considered it prior to the store opening. However, I am going to ask what the differences between that and my current Apple Care; if it turn out i can get a better deal with this Procare, I will ask for a prorated refund on my AppleCare plan.

Bad idea, and I'll tell you why:

Applecare and ProCare are two COMPLETELY different things. Applecare is the warranty for the machine. It's what covers your computer when things go wrong. It's what you call when you need phone support.

ProCare is an OPTION that CERTAIN CUSTOMERS may want when they purchase their computer. You would be surprised how many people WANT and NEED next day service. You'd be surprised how many people would love to reserve time with a genius of their choice. Have you ever been to any of the more trafficked stores? Have you seen the wait there is to speak to a genius? It can be anywhere from 0-1hr wait.

I don't know why ANY OF YOU ARE COMPLAINING. You haven't lost anything, and for the most part this affects no one who has replied to this thread. In fact, you've all gained the ability to buy a mac and get everything installed for free now(without the purchase of apple care). 90% of the people in this thread have no clue what they are talking about and just want a reason to bash Apple because their G17 hypercooled holograpic 32" desktop system hasn't came out yet. Get over it.

ITR 81

Apr 1, 2004, 11:42 PM

You're 100% wrong. Panther does not come with iLife. So, it's $129 + $49
No your wrong.
I was referring to iLife from last yr not iLife 4.

But what do you care. I still will get iLife 4 with the next ver. of OSX 10.4 and for only $69 bucks.

Some_Big_Spoon

Apr 1, 2004, 11:47 PM

Are you sure about that? will 10.4 have iLife included? Where's your info? Link? Press release? Hopeful speculation?

"you're" = you are

No your wrong.
I was referring to iLife from last yr not iLife 4.

But what do you care. I still will get iLife 4 with the next ver. of OSX 10.4 and for only $69 bucks.

oingoboingo

Apr 1, 2004, 11:50 PM

I don't know why ANY OF YOU ARE COMPLAINING. You haven't lost anything, and for the most part this affects no one who has replied to this thread. In fact, you've all gained the ability to buy a mac and get everything installed for free now(without the purchase of apple care).

Just to check something...if I buy a system from Apple's online store and configure RAM, AirPort, different hard drive etc, these options will be installed for me at no extra cost. Is this different in Apple Stores? Is there a charge for, say, upgrading the RAM in a system at purchase time versus just taking home the box with no changes made? My experience (in Australia) has been that extra options were fitted at purchase time at no extra charge anyway. The AirPort Extreme card and the extra 512MB of RAM in my 12" PowerBook were installed while I waited in-store for free. Is there a different policy in the US?

jsw

Apr 1, 2004, 11:54 PM

I continue to be amazed at the apparent anger over an optional service Apple is offering for its business customers. Of the people complaining about how they're being screwed once again by Apple, are any of you people who depend on your Mac as a vital daily business tool?

If not, then bugger off. The service isn't for you.

solvs

Apr 1, 2004, 11:56 PM

Well, this does seem kinda pointless, and something I'd probably never use. Just another way for Apple (you know, a business) to get your money. How dare they charge for providing a service. But I'm not gonna whine and b*tch about it.

Oh... wait. I just did. Damn. Well, I ain't buyin' .Mac either. But whatever, some people like it. No sense posting the same thing over and over again. You don't like it, don't buy it.

jsw

Apr 1, 2004, 11:58 PM

Are you sure about that? will 10.4 have iLife included? Where's your info? Link? Press release? Hopeful speculation?

iLife is a hook to get people to buy new Macs. It isn't part of any OS X release, although pieces of it are. Therefore, I don't see why this is relevant. Also, no one is forced to buy iLife, so I don't see what the complaining is all about. If it's worth it to you, buy it. If not, quit whining.

jsw

Apr 2, 2004, 12:00 AM

Just to check something...if I buy a system from Apple's online store and configure RAM, AirPort, different hard drive etc, these options will be installed for me at no extra cost. Is this different in Apple Stores? Is there a charge for, say, upgrading the RAM in a system at purchase time versus just taking home the box with no changes made? My experience (in Australia) has been that extra options were fitted at purchase time at no extra charge anyway. The AirPort Extreme card and the extra 512MB of RAM in my 12" PowerBook were installed while I waited in-store for free. Is there a different policy in the US?

Technically, the Stores here in the States are supposed to charge for installing the card and the RAM, although many might tend not to. Now, though, it's all free.

oingoboingo

Apr 2, 2004, 12:00 AM

No your wrong.
I was referring to iLife from last yr not iLife 4.

But what do you care. I still will get iLife 4 with the next ver. of OSX 10.4 and for only $69 bucks.

That's fine if you want to wait 18 months or so to get access to the latest version of iLife. That may not be an issue at all for some people. Otherwise, the original observations stand...it's $129 + $49 to keep OS X and iLife up to date (standard pricing). I'm assuming the $69 you're referring to is a student or developer discount?

I would have to agree with other posters here as well on the topic of further iLife revisions being included with OS X updates. I wouldn't count on it. The general trend definitely seems to be towards *unbundling* of services and software...it would not surprise me at all if OS X updates did not include iLife anymore, and the only way to get the latest iLife for free was to buy a new Mac. This is the situation as it stands now anyway. Also remember the .Mac/iTools unbundling.

It's really a moot point anyway with most of Apple's software. It's not copy protected, so people who think it is a fair price will pay, and those that don't will just download it from BitTorrent or LimeWire for free. For the record, I paid the shipping/handling charge to get the Panther upgrade for my G5, and it came with my 12" PowerBook. And I also purchased iLife '04. But plenty of other Mac users I know didn't.

ITR 81

Apr 2, 2004, 12:29 AM

Are you sure about that? will 10.4 have iLife included? Where's your info? Link? Press release? Hopeful speculation?

"you're" = you are

How about common sense.
How would Apple look if it was missing..iTunes, iDVD, iMovie, iPhoto, and now Garageband.
I doubt Apple will ship it without a newer ver. of iLife.
So far for me iLife has been updated twice with the newest ver of OSX.

How about my gov rep told me it would have iLife 4, but it has yet to be finalized if it will include Garageband. But I doubt the US Army will need PB's with Garageband anyhow.
We tested 10 PB's last yr out in AZ with a gov. ed. of Panther...which had smartcard readers which allows us only access to certain areas within the OS. The next test will be in Alaska with my friends new unit and it will be with the next OS ver of OSX. The PB's are only going to special Intel. field units..just created in last few yrs. We are currently using Panasonic Toughbooks but so far they break just as easy as our PB's..we've tested.

ITR 81

Apr 2, 2004, 12:40 AM

That's fine if you want to wait 18 months or so to get access to the latest version of iLife. That may not be an issue at all for some people. Otherwise, the original observations stand...it's $129 + $49 to keep OS X and iLife up to date (standard pricing). I'm assuming the $69 you're referring to is a student or developer discount?

I would have to agree with other posters here as well on the topic of further iLife revisions being included with OS X updates. I wouldn't count on it. The general trend definitely seems to be towards *unbundling* of services and software...it would not surprise me at all if OS X updates did not include iLife anymore, and the only way to get the latest iLife for free was to buy a new Mac. This is the situation as it stands now anyway. Also remember the .Mac/iTools unbundling.

It's really a moot point anyway with most of Apple's software. It's not copy protected, so people who think it is a fair price will pay, and those that don't will just download it from BitTorrent or LimeWire for free. For the record, I paid the shipping/handling charge to get the Panther upgrade for my G5, and it came with my 12" PowerBook. And I also purchased iLife '04. But plenty of other Mac users I know didn't.

I can get edu discounts and gov discounts. Sometimes I can get them for free depending on the project.

So if iLife does not come with 10.4 we'll be looking at new OSX without iTunes, iDVD, iMovie or iPhoto...sounds like an almost featureless upgrade.
A featureless upgrade = less money for SJ and I doubt SJ will be having that.

Some_Big_Spoon

Apr 2, 2004, 12:55 AM

iTunes will always be there, because it generates sales of the iPod.. iDVD does not come with OSX, it comes with superdrive enabled computers, or when you pay for it in iLife '04.

OSX is the operating system, and it's become very clear that Apple wants to seperate the "OS" from the "Applications".. not a very smart move.

10.4 could very well come with all the current iLife apps, even iDVD, but the point is that none of us know, and Apple reps certainly don't know about software that hasn't entered/exited alpha yet.

I'm sure any new OS release will have compelling reasons to upgrade, but none of us really know anymore if any iLife apps, save iTunes, will make it in any longer, and that concerns a lot of us as we've come to think of these as being a given since we pay a bit more than other computer users on average. It's upsetting frankly, and I think it's very much our place to question Apple's motive and direction since both seem to be less than spectacular right now.

I can get edu discounts and gov discounts. Sometimes I can get them for free depending on the project.

So if iLife does not come with 10.4 we'll be looking at new OSX without iTunes, iDVD, iMovie or iPhoto...sounds like an almost featureless upgrade.
A featureless upgrade = less money for SJ and I doubt SJ will be having that.

Fukui

Apr 2, 2004, 01:46 AM

No Garage Band, No iDVD. iDVD is part of iLife, no iDVD, no iLife. Panther comes with 3 of the 4 older versions of the software package, and those 3 versions are dead in the water.. no more updates.

You sound like you either work at Apple, or you're Steve Jobs love child. The company has been making quite a few mistakes as of late..Shouldn't we question that? Shouldn't that be our right? Perhaps not.

Oooh. Them be fightin words.... Thank you attacking me personally. If you read my posts before or anywhere on this site, you know I'm not some zealot.

Now...does Microsoft Windows come with the latest version of Office pre-installed? No? Oh my gawd! Lets all go on some forum and complain about it!!! Do you see people complain to HP or Dell or Sony when they upgrade to Windows 2000 or Windows XP and thier pre-installed software doesn't work anymore? Hmm....you can always install the old iDVD on Panther cant you? Yes you can.

And, of course you can complain, but its been my experience that some complain about anything they can possibly find.

oingoboingo

Apr 2, 2004, 01:52 AM

I can get edu discounts and gov discounts. Sometimes I can get them for free depending on the project.

So if iLife does not come with 10.4 we'll be looking at new OSX without iTunes, iDVD, iMovie or iPhoto...sounds like an almost featureless upgrade.
A featureless upgrade = less money for SJ and I doubt SJ will be having that.

Believe me, I'd love for OS X to include all the iLife updates. I was yelling and screaming with the rest of the crowd in January when we found out that iLife '04 would be a US$49 (AU $79) upgrade. After all, we used to get iLife updates through the Software Update function along with all the other OS components. The only reason to buy iLife in a box was if you couldn't download the apps directly because you were on a modem. However, it all changed in January.

Panther included stacks of other stuff apart from iLife...better performance, Expose, XCode, FileVault, Fast User Switching, improved Finder, enhanced Mail, improved iDisk syncing. Without touching iLife, OS X 10.3 is still an exciting upgrade. All I'm saying is that judging from recent events, it would not be in the least bit surprising if there were no more iLife updates in OS X updates. You want the latest version of iPhoto? Buy iLife '04, or iLife '05, or whatever. You get your first copy of iLife free with your Mac, but that's it.

It's about 5 months since Panther was released, and about 2.5 months since iLife '04 was released. Are the iLife '04 apps in the retail Panther box? There's been plenty of time to change the contents of the boxes in retail channels. Apple is *already* not including iLife updates with OS X updates.

I don't agree (believe me, I complained long and loud about it back in January), but it clearly seems to be the way Apple is going. I really wanted improved iPhoto performance (let's not hide from the truth, iPhoto 2 performance straight-out sucked) and GB looked interesting, so in the end I did what Steve wanted, and with gritted teeth handed over my credit card to Apple. If you want to stay nice and legal, you're probably gonna have to do the same thing next year (although with the educational or government discount, it should be pretty cheap. I've gone back to university this year to do a PhD, so I'll be getting edu pricing too :) )

oingoboingo

Apr 2, 2004, 02:03 AM

Now...does Microsoft Windows come with the latest version of Office pre-installed? No? Oh my gawd! Lets all go on some forum and complain about it!!! Do you see people complain to HP or Dell or Sony when they upgrade to Windows 2000 or Windows XP and thier pre-installed software doesn't work anymore? Hmm....you can always install the old iDVD on Panther cant you? Yes you can.

That's not a fair comparison. Microsoft has never bundled those apps with their operating system. Apple used to, and now they don't. And yes, people *do* complain when their Windows upgrade trashes all their installed apps. They're meant to continue working. If HP, Dell, or Sony are the OEM provider of Windows, then they will be the ones responsible for answering their customer's Windows service calls.

Remember...we *used* to be able to download those iLife apps, and get updates for free. That has now changed. That is what people complain about. Please, I don't want to get into a January-era argument again with anyone over whether iLife '04 is worth it or not (I actually bought it). I just don't see these "But MS doesn't give you Office for free!!!" arguments as actually proving anything. Apple used to provide free updates for iLife, and now they don't. I think a closer analogy would be if Microsoft stopped bundling Internet Explorer or Windows Media Player and started making people pay for upgrades to those.

Fukui

Apr 2, 2004, 02:15 AM

That's not a fair comparison. Microsoft has never bundled those apps with their operating system. Apple used to, and now they don't. And yes, people *do* complain when their Windows upgrade trashes all their installed apps. They're meant to continue working. If HP, Dell, or Sony are the OEM provider of Windows, then they will be the ones responsible for answering their customer's Windows service calls.

Remember...we *used* to be able to download those iLife apps, and get updates for free. That has now changed. That is what people complain about. Please, I don't want to get into a January-era argument again with anyone over whether iLife '04 is worth it or not (I actually bought it). I just don't see these "But MS doesn't give you Office for free!!!" arguments as actually proving anything. Apple used to provide free updates for iLife, and now they don't. I think a closer analogy would be if Microsoft stopped bundling Internet Explorer or Windows Media Player and started making people pay for upgrades to those.
I agree that changing them from free to paid is bad style.
You'll get no argument from me about that. I personally dont think the whole iLife package is worth it to me (despite how stunning iDVD 4 may be), so I have nothing to complain about. The thing is though, when I think about the work that goes into GB/iDVD/iMovie, and I ask myself should they charge for it, somehow I think they should...at least I would.

I think that offering free versions and then changing to pay is again bad style and bad for publicity, but TBO, I think they should have just had it be a for-pay/pre-installed-only from the begining...

oingoboingo

Apr 2, 2004, 02:52 AM

I agree that changing them from free to paid is bad style.
You'll get no argument from me about that. I personally dont think the whole iLife package is worth it to me (despite how stunning iDVD 4 may be), so I have nothing to complain about. The thing is though, when I think about the work that goes into GB/iDVD/iMovie, and I ask myself should they charge for it, somehow I think they should...at least I would.

I think that offering free versions and then changing to pay is again bad style and bad for publicity, but TBO, I think they should have just had it be a for-pay/pre-installed-only from the begining...

I'm inclined to agree with you...it leaves a bad taste in your mouth to discover that what appeared to be part of OS X is now suddenly not, and costs $49 extra. But on the other hand, the apps are really good quality, and compared to the competition, $49 is a bargain...but then again they used to be free...but they're great value etc etc.

I see-saw back and forth. As I mentioned before, in the end I got over my disappointment enough to shell out the AU $79 for iLife '04, but I wasn't happy about it. The thing that disturbs me most is the overall trend...we seem to be paying more to get the same stuff. OS X 10.0 to 10.1 was free. Then the upgrades started to cost. iTools used to be free. Then they cost...and yearly. iLife upgrades used to be free. Now they cost. When you take the high upfront hardware cost into account, it doesn't create an overall feeling of goodwill towards Apple Inc. sometimes...and that can translate into lost sales through word of mouth.

John61254

Apr 2, 2004, 04:32 AM

I love Apple hardware and software.
I used to just say "I love Apple".
But this Procare thing really makes me wonder what they are thinking and where they are going.
The Procare site says:
" With ProCare, you’ll get added benefits over and above our standard level of service:"
Then it goes on to describe the kind of stuff that you would mostly expect from (and up till now has been) pretty much "standard service".
If all this stuff (what used to be "standard service") now costs $100, then what the #!*?! does "standard service" get you now?!?!
And what is really so hot about "Pro Service" that you can't (or least couldn't get up till) now?
How come all of a sudden to get decent service, what any customer would expect, costs an extra c-note?! What a bunch of cr*p.
Seems Apple used to say: "Let's make great products and treat our customers better and they'll be willing to pay a little more".
Now the word is: "Let's still make great products and charge a little less; then for those that still want to be treated better, we'll make them pay for it."
What's next?
Somewhere up in Cupertino there's a corporate schmuck thinking up this "money making" stuff, but I wish Apple would just stick to making good software and hardware, and treating all their customers like "Pros". Now what's wrong with that strategy?

aswitcher

Apr 2, 2004, 04:47 AM

If Apple are going to charge a premium for decent service, $99 US, the I would expect them to immediately refund that and let you keep it the first time they fail to meet a turn around time on repairs...

I also think they need to have some sort of refund in the Standard Applecare when service is crap. 2-3 weeks without a machine is pretty significant.

Any down time at minimum should be tacked onto the end of the machines Applecare life.

Any delays of more than a week should see discount vouchers appearing at like $15-50 a week given the lifetime of the machine is about what 3 years (thats all Applecare will extend to so that's Apple's hardware lifetime as far as I am concerned), so if you divide the purchase price of the machine by 153 (for 3 years of 51 weeks).

So 12" PB is worth ~$10 a week, 15" super is $16, 17" is ~$20

G5 1.6 ~$11, 1.8 ~$16, ~$19
+ in each case useless screen or two...~$5-$13

Oh, and as well because these are min config machines, which probably have a few hundred bucks of extra ram, plus software you are upgrading each year etc, then when you take that into account add $5-$10 or even more for professionals for each week!

zelman

Apr 2, 2004, 06:19 AM

Now...does Microsoft Windows come with the latest version of Office pre-installed? No? Oh my gawd! Lets all go on some forum and complain about it!!!

Does it come with Paint, Wordpad, Character Map, and a ton of other programs that always had been included? Yes. What if they started charging $49 for Regedit.exe and Notepad? Windows would be useless without them.

Uragon

Apr 2, 2004, 07:16 AM

april fool :p

Completely agree with you.

merge

Apr 2, 2004, 08:43 AM

I challenge you to back that statement up.

They state test-drive as a possibility, you come out a denounce it as impossible, calling the entire program "worthless".

They don't state test drive as a "possibility"...
a quote from apple..
"Try all of the latest Apple hardware in our store, before you buy. "
like I said... I have always been able to do that... It is not anything of value.

I run a company, and the ability to know that I can get 24-hour turnaround on repairs, go in and talk to a genius any time without waiting an hour, hands-down is worth $99 on my $6,000 computer purchase

There is a catch here...
Apple says " Get priority, next-day turnaround on in-store repairs. "
I don't know what the difference between in-store, and out of store repairs is, but I would assume that most (not all... but most) hardware issues are not "in-store" repairs..
Also, the only time I have ever had to talk to a genius is when something actually broke... my charger, and my logic board. I needed to go to the apple store that day. What happnens if the geniuses are all booked from other procare users that day?
I assume I still have to wait my turn... even though I paid for the service.

But it's called "Pro" -- it's not intended for ordinary consumers. It's intended for people like me who stand to lose thousands of dollars if there's a day of downtime. This is just another way Apple is pushing into the business/enterprise market.

I like the idea for professionals, I just do not think it will work.. btw, if you could possibly lose thousands of dollars from downtime, I would not be using the apple store for my problems... I would find a local apple authorized repair tech to come on-site.

Look, I love apple... computers....
I just think they need to focus their energy other places than something like this.

merge

Apr 2, 2004, 08:44 AM

Somewhere up in Cupertino there's a corporate schmuck thinking up this "money making" stuff, but I wish Apple would just stick to making good software and hardware, and treating all their customers like "Pros". Now what's wrong with that strategy?

EXACTLY!
Well said John.

robotrenegade

Apr 2, 2004, 09:08 AM

WOW apple is falling off the deep end with this one.

iggyb

Apr 2, 2004, 10:33 AM

If the store is far, then maybe...you dont pay for the 99 pro package?
Maybe you send it in?

Then why is it that Sony (who has no excuse to charge for more) only has a one year limited warranty, no phone support, and you have to pay more for three years (just now an option BTW), yet they sell more than Apple?
Please explain this too me? Why is it that Dell with thier unintelligible phone service in India manages to have such a great reputation?

As for in home service, Ive had enough with smelly sweaty TV repairmen in my house I would rather bring it to an apple store and have it fixed or send it over night.

smelly sweaty TV repairmen? Is that a requirement in your area?

I'm not a fan of Dell. You're right that their phone service sucks eggs (and I can't understand a flippin' thing they're saying). However, their onsite service has treated me well. And although you might prefer to bring your computer to an Apple store (which are not as ubiquitous as they should be for that solution), others would very much like an onsite service, and pay accordingly. Especially businesses!

It seems like ProCare isn't taking away anything, but then again I haven't purchased anything outside of an iPod from an AppleStore.

ProCare SchmroCare....how about some flippin' computer updates!!!

Some_Big_Spoon

Apr 2, 2004, 12:25 PM

ProCare SchmroCare....how about some flippin' computer updates!!!

That, my friend, is the crux of our dismay & disappointment at this whole ProCare-thingie (and theiLife, .Mac, etc. debachles)

Computers kids.. that's supposed to be Apple's bidnezz, and it's been wanting lately. If we had the puters coming at us regular like, then I think the dissent about new "services" and more money would be small, not the overwhelming majority it appears to be.

Fukui

Apr 2, 2004, 12:41 PM

smelly sweaty TV repairmen? Is that a requirement in your area?

Yes, unfortunately. I'm telling you, every single person has either smelled horrible, sweated profusely, or left marks on the floor with thier dirty feet or any combination of those. Maybe computer repairs people are different than TV/Appliance repairs people...

I'm not a fan of Dell. You're right that their phone service sucks eggs (and I can't understand a flippin' thing they're saying). However, their onsite service has treated me well. And although you might prefer to bring your computer to an Apple store (which are not as ubiquitous as they should be for that solution), others would very much like an onsite service, and pay accordingly. Especially businesses!

I agree that businesses would also appreciate onsite repair, absolutely.
But not for me personally...I don't know I just have had so many bad experiences with in-person repair people, I just prefer to drop my whatever-is-broken off at the store.

QuiteSure

Apr 2, 2004, 01:03 PM

I'm not concerned that Apple wants to start generating what amounts to fee income, like most financial institutions have started to do. After all, Apple is probably getting killed on the low return generated by its $4+billion in cash in these days of low interest rates. Gotta do something new to generate revenues. That's OK with me.

But what does concern me is the inconsistent message that ProCare is sending to the public. Apple is well known for ease of use. If that's the case, why should consumers spend $99 to set up user accounts, internet, transfer files, etc. Shouldn't that be simple? Unless that's really not a central part of the appeal to ProCare, I don't like the message that sends. :confused:

OTOH, if you want to drop off your computer at the mall, tell the Genius what you want done, buy the new G5 and go do your other shopping, and then find that all your apps and all your emails and all your other preferences etc. are all set up for you when you get back from Rainforest Cafe, that might be a really sweet deal ... :cool:

mjtomlin

Apr 2, 2004, 01:59 PM

on ProCare:
It's obvious Apple is trying to make money in other areas. And there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with that. They aren't forcing this ProCare down your throat. If it's not for you, then DON'T SPEND YOUR FREAKEN MONEY ON IT!!! With or without the card, you're going to get help when you walk into an Apple store.

When I first saw this article, I thought to myself, "Not for me." and that was that. But I understand who it's for and why...

If you're a person who needs the extra attention, maybe someone new to the Mac who finds themselves in an Apple Store a lot but doesn't really have the time to stand around in line waiting to speak with a "genius." This sort of service would be perfect for them; it allows them to schedule time to come in when it's most convenient for them. Does any other computer company offer a one-on-one customer support service like this!?! For free!?!

It's obviously not going to appeal to the majority of the people out there. For you to post what a waste it is or how dumb this is, just shows you're a self-centered, ignorant schmuck.

on iLife:
Aww, does the poor baby have to start feeding itself now? Whine about having to pay for something you once got for free. You're so pathetic.

Your right to own and use iLife never came with the OS, it comes with owning a Macintosh computer. Period. And that has not changed. You still get iLife for free when buy a new Mac. What has changed are the free upgrades to new "feature-added" versions.

on no new PowerMacs:
WTF does that have to do with this? Find another freaken thread to post on.

merge

Apr 2, 2004, 03:53 PM

For you to post what a waste it is or how dumb this is, just shows you're a self-centered, ignorant schmuck.

on iLife:
Aww, does the poor baby have to start feeding itself now? Whine about having to pay for something you once got for free. You're so pathetic.

Your right to own and use iLife never came with the OS, it comes with owning a Macintosh computer. Period. And that has not changed. You still get iLife for free when buy a new Mac. What has changed are the free upgrades to new "feature-added" versions.

on no new PowerMacs:
WTF does that have to do with this? Find another freaken thread to post on.

Lets not start with personal attacks now... we are all allowed to have different opinions you "ignorant schmuck"

Here is the thing, most of us on this board are more than typical mac users... we are fans...
If your favorite sports team does something you don't like, you may argue with another fan. It happens.
I am a fan of apple computers, and as a fan, I would like to see them trying to gain marketshare rather than trying to find another small income builder.
I would much rather see apple going after the people who are entry level users who don't want an e-mac and can't afford a Powermac...Or New G5's so we can remain competitive in the GHz war.

We pay a pretty high premium to use Apple, and for that we get a great OS and some great apps...
imho, these apps should be free... that is part of the attraction to buy a mac...

Considering what Apple charges for hardware... the same stuff that is in MUCH cheaper PC's.. We should be getting iLife, and all free updates...

sailnavy

Apr 2, 2004, 06:20 PM

Am I the only one that thinks dragging a PowerMac Dual G5 through the mall to get it fixed is a little nuts? I have a fan problem with my dualie, but I haven't had the time to drive the 45miles to my nearest apple service center to get it worked on for a week. I miss sending my powerbook in for service, it was so much easier, and it went to a depot, not a mom and pop apple service center that will have to order the part to install it, or a mall where I get to lug this not so portable machine around. Hard to look cool with the G5 PowerMac "Laptop" at the starbucks...

-Jason

ahh... I feel better now.

mdriftmeyer

Apr 2, 2004, 06:38 PM

What makes you think fixing your misconfigured software setup is part of Care?

If it does than $99 is ridiculously low priced.

Hey Apple. Yeah I just bought WebObjects 5.2.3 and I can't get it to connect to an Oracle Database that you claim it supports. Is this covered under your Apple Care policy?

Apple: No that is a support instance cost and if you purchase an Enterprise Support contract we'll be happy to help WRITE YOUR BUSINESS LOGIC FOR YOU.

What if I need NetInfo Network Design Fixing? Is that under Apple Care?

What if my IMAP Server settings are not working correctly? Is that under Apple Care?

Apple: Did the OS Install Correctly? Is the hardware and device drivers working correctly?

Yes.

Apple: I suggest you buy a professional support contract for your needs that go beyond Consumer level support.

From looking at the "features" it seems like this just a way to collect MORE money from customers. All these options are already currently available via apple care. The difference is you do this at the store instead of over the phone.

PLUS, I thought if you had applecare all these options were already available. I thought you could bring your mac in with apple care and they'd fix any problem you had. ie. email settings, help copy files, etc..

I dunno, this seems very odd to me. Anyone else?

oingoboingo

Apr 2, 2004, 07:25 PM

on ProCare:
It's obviously not going to appeal to the majority of the people out there. For you to post what a waste it is or how dumb this is, just shows you're a self-centered, ignorant schmuck.

on iLife:
Aww, does the poor baby have to start feeding itself now? Whine about having to pay for something you once got for free. You're so pathetic.

Your right to own and use iLife never came with the OS, it comes with owning a Macintosh computer. Period. And that has not changed. You still get iLife for free when buy a new Mac. What has changed are the free upgrades to new "feature-added" versions.

on no new PowerMacs:
WTF does that have to do with this? Find another freaken thread to post on.

When I see posts like this, I wonder if the 'Pro' in 'Apple ProCare' is actually short for 'PROctologist'. Some people are obviously just arseholes, and need a bit of extra attention from Apple.

mjtomlin

Apr 3, 2004, 01:07 AM

Previously posted by oingoboingo:
"When I see posts like this, I wonder if the 'Pro' in 'Apple ProCare' is actually short for 'PROctologist'. Some people are obviously just arseholes, and need a bit of extra attention from Apple."

Uh, so pay Apple the $99 if you think you need the extra attention. Arsehole. :rolleyes:

aswitcher

Apr 3, 2004, 01:49 AM

SNIP

Uh, so pay Apple the $99 if you think you need the extra attention. Arsehole. :rolleyes:

I think you'll find that this offer only applies to Americans at the moment...read what you will into that :eek: :p
There really is no need for vulgarity...except during another keynote that has no decent hardware - especially G5 PowerBooks!!! ;) :D

trueice

Apr 3, 2004, 08:49 AM

I guess working at CompUSA gives me a different take on this whole thing. It seems more like another way to drive out the retail competition. Apple may only have a small market share, but if any of you thinks they don't have MS monopolistic tendencies, then you're crazy. This is a slap in the face to the resellers, at Comp we already do free installs on hardware and software and basic setup and if you read the terms and conditions carefully( http://www.apple.com/retail/procare/terms.html ), it is only good at brick and mortar Apple Stores. I dont mind the price so much as I mind the offer. The price doesnt bother me becuase it is no different than the reason someone would buy on of our Platinum Service plans versus the carry-in only plan...needs of the customer.

The fact that it is offered and the fact that they are once again changing their reseller contracts stating that it is entirely fair to not have a level playing field, meaning the Apple store half a mile away at Cherry Creek Mall (Denver, CO) has every PB, G5, IB, Emac and Imac in stock and we are down to open box units. I wouldnt be surprised if the Compusa store in Chicago, where there is an Apple Store a couple blocks away, has similar issues. I dont know whether CompUSA or MicroCenter sells more Macs but I wouldnt be surprised if they were feeling the same crunch that we are, and I cant imagine what the mom and pops are feeling in terms of inventory and new contracts.
All we ask is that Apple have a level playing field, because there are many an individual who look to the sales people for direction as first time users or returning computer users, and if Apple continues to slap us down, there may come a time where we stop telling people why they should spend and extra $6-700 on an imac vs the $599 HP computer/monitor bundle that has twice as much ram, hard drive space, better graphics card, and user replaceable parts.
I still cant believe that no one brought up the fact that if you ever move out of state or city, your ProCare is null and void unless you want to drive/fly to the store where you bought the ProCare. At least Apple Care and our Service Plans are good at all of our stores and are transferrable. Oh well...

wdlove

Apr 3, 2004, 01:10 PM

I'm definitely plan on visiting my local Apple Store tomorrow. Want to find out all the details on this program. I have one question in mind. :)

humantech

Apr 3, 2004, 01:53 PM

That Apple is working on growing market share. They are offering a product that new users may need- you arent forced to buy it- For those of you who think that they should "for free" offer free file transfer, software configuration, etc, you have obviously never spent 3 or 4 hours of your time working "for free" for someone who has never touched a mac before--- YES they are easy ( as easy as it gets to use), but LOTS of folks that have never touched a mac have apprehensions about using them. For those of you that think this scuzzy of Apple, dont buy it. If it doesnt sell, they will discontinue or modify the program. BTW- I am an Apple specialist reseller- I have the same problems with getting product allocation that you hear about everywhere else, but y'know what? I have no problem with these new contracts- People who complain about a non-level playing field obviously have never played king of the mountain, and would rather whine than compete- I love seeing Apple offer this pro care- It will give me more sales ( why? We do some of the exact same stuff for free, and do it faster and more efficiently with consulatant level professional, friendly service)
As always- my 2 cents

zot72

Apr 3, 2004, 05:32 PM

How about common sense.
How would Apple look if it was missing..iTunes, iDVD, iMovie, iPhoto, and now Garageband.
I doubt Apple will ship it without a newer ver. of iLife.
So far for me iLife has been updated twice with the newest ver of OSX.

Panther didn't have the then current complete iLife package, why should we expect 10.4 to? Prior to the January announcement, you still had to buy the box to get everything -- if your machine came with iDVD 2, no amount of Software Update would morph it into iDVD 3. Whether or not you find iDVD useful (for the life of me, I couldn't tell you if I've ever even launched it), its still part of iLife and hasn't been available for download.

jsw

Apr 4, 2004, 11:32 AM

I still cant believe that no one brought up the fact that if you ever move out of state or city, your ProCare is null and void unless you want to drive/fly to the store where you bought the ProCare.

Interesting. I didn't realize that - a definite minus for those who don't know if they'll be in a given area for the whole 12 months.

wdlove

Apr 4, 2004, 08:18 PM

jaw04005

Apr 4, 2004, 10:10 PM

I just visited my Apple Store at Chestnut Hill. We purchased the Apple ProCare Card #5 for my wife's 15" PowerBook. It is tied to the computer not the person. Being able to setup a private one hour workshop will be a nice feature. They said that my wife & I can both attend. :cool:

What kind of workshops do they offer? Just basic newbie stuff, or Final Cut Express/Pro, etc? Is there a limit as to how many times you can set up a workshop?

wdlove

Apr 4, 2004, 10:56 PM

What kind of workshops do they offer? Just basic newbie stuff, or Final Cut Express/Pro, etc? Is there a limit as to how many times you can set up a workshop?

The Apple staffer didn't mention about any limit. It talks about "Custom Workshops, Book free, one hour workshops to learn about applications or business solutions." My wife ask about photoshop an he said yes. They do list Final Cut Express. iLife, GarageBand, and Keynote among many others.

voicegy

Apr 9, 2004, 12:48 PM

Another of those offers that (like .Mac) are absolutely no use for a seasoned Mac-User like me *sigh*. OK, I know, I don't need to use it, but I feel Apple is investing more and more resources in stuff that will never be useful for me.

Set up my Mac? Yeah right, I desperately need someone who enters my username...

I finally "switched" a friend of mine over to the Mac. He's been on PC's for years, and has had all sorts of problems with his Gateway, which finally gave up the ghost two night ago when the power supply went out. (Some issues he's had were PC related, but, admittedly, some issues are his - he's not the brightest bulb in the drawer when it comes to computers, and is somewhat phobic about the whole computer experience.)

Now, for me, ProCare would be absurd. I'm a power user, have resources available to me outside of Apple to take care of any serious issues, and I don't need my "hand held." But for my friend, this was a Godsend. Although I expect many happy carefree years for him in the future with his new 17" iMac, I can breathe easier for him knowing that he purchased ProCare, which I suggested to him. For the timid, and the ones who are not sure of themselves when it comes to all the ins and outs of the computer experience, help, advice, superior service and support are just a phone call away for him, and that will not only relieve me of the need to perform a lot of baby-sitting for him, but gives him great peace of mind. He jumped at the chance to purchase it, and was grateful that such a service was even offered.

And now he has a "cool" black card with ProCare written on it and an account number. He looked at it as he turned it in his hands as if he just recieved an American Express Platinum Card. For him, this service came at the right time.

wdlove

Apr 9, 2004, 02:41 PM

And now he has a "cool" black card with ProCare written on it and an account number. He looked at it as he turned it in his hands as if he just received an American Express Platinum Card. For him, this service came at the right time.

My wife and I feel the same way voiceguy. One on one help is very comforting. I realize that here on the forum and on the phone it is very frustrating for the expert.

DaBuzz

Apr 14, 2004, 04:32 PM

Ok, so I was skeptical about it. But I figured, I spent a bundle on my PowerBook, this may be added insurance.

So far, it's come in very handy. The San Francisco store is a VERY busy store, but whenever I tell them at the Genius Bar that I have ProCare, they bump me to the front of the line. Since I bought it a week ago, its come in handy 3 times when I had a question about something my PowerBook was doing. I hope I never have to use the repair service, but I definitely get treated differently at the store.

wizzend

Dec 10, 2004, 06:49 PM

I brought my seven month old g5 in to an Apple store because it was having a kernel panic and tech support could not fix the problem. They said the computer should be ready in a few days. I called three days later and they said it would be ready in a week. I went in the store and bought ProCare because they said it could be applied to the existing service ticket.

It has been three additional business days and my computer is still not ready.

So much for:
Rapid Repairs. Get priority, next-day turnaround on in-store repairs.

Fourbin

Dec 11, 2004, 12:47 PM

I'll tell you I for one would never invest in this BS. Especially how screwed I'm getting for the $350 AppleCare I paid for (this thread: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1162792)

wdlove

Dec 12, 2004, 08:20 PM

I'll tell you I for one would never invest in this BS. Especially how screwed I'm getting for the $350 AppleCare I paid for (this thread: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1162792)

I hoping that in the end Apple will do the right thing. Sometimes its a matter of getting a hold of the correct person. It would seem that your best bet would be to try with your local Apple Store.

Rod Rod

Dec 13, 2004, 07:26 PM

I'll tell you I for one would never invest in this BS. Especially how screwed I'm getting for the $350 AppleCare I paid for (this thread: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1162792)

You're not getting screwed because AppleCare is a service contract, not an insurance policy.

Next time get your computer added to your homeowner's policy or a separate policy with a company such as safeware.com.

I bought a policy from safeware.com and although I haven't yet had to file a claim, I have more peace of mind with safeware than AppleCare would give me because I'm still within the first 12 months of hardware coverage. If I end up keeping my PowerBook longer than a year I might just buy the AppleCare extended warranty. For now I'm set.

______________________

In ProCare news, they no longer list "Test Drive" as one of ProCare's features and benefits. Perhaps they figured out the stupidity of listing that item.

http://www.apple.com/retail/procare/

The predecessor to ProCare, which was exclusive to Power Mac G5s, allowed you to return the G5s without penalty in the first two weeks. I just read the entire ProCare Terms & Conditions (http://www.apple.com/retail/procare/terms.html) and this privilege is not offered with ProCare. Maybe people were abusing this?