The unofficial "I'm Waiting for Arrandale" thread...

[spaceballl]

As of July 24, most recent release info here (http://www.crazyhawt.com/2009/07/24/intel-arrandale-cpus-to-launch-in-1q10-here-come-the-new-macbook-cpus/).
As of Nov 15, most recent release info here (http://9to5mac.com/Arrandale-macbook-pro-345645).

Everyone loves a good laptop update, but the Penryn processors in the most recent updates are the same CPUs we had almost a year ago. As much as I love the new MBP design, I'm going to keep my non-unibody Penryn until late 2009 or early 2010, when we get Intel's newest chips, codenamed Arrandale. If you need a briefing about the chip, check here (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3513&p=7). To quote the article...
The 32nm Clarkdale/Arrandale parts arriving by the end of this year really means one very important thing: the time to buy a new notebook will be either in Q4 2009 or Q1 2010. A 2-core, 4-thread 32nm Westmere derivative is not only going to put current Penryn cores to shame, it’s going to be extremely power efficient. In its briefing yesterday, Intel mentioned that while Clarkdale/Arrandale clock speeds and TDPs would be similar to what we have today, you’ll be getting much more performance. Seeing what we’ve seen thus far with Nehalem, I’d say a 2-core, 32nm version in a notebook is going to be reason enough for you to want to upgrade.
I know many are staunch on their "if you need it, get it now" perspective, which I respect, but surely there are others like myself who will be holding out for this new Intel i7 based technology. If so, this is your waiting and speculation thread!

Can't wait!!!

[Tallest Skil]

What happened to Clarksfield?

[barkmonster]

What happened to Clarksfield?

Well Brainiac crashed his ship into it, then these narky types from the phantom zone turned up to annoy everyone. Loads of other things happened too but I think it's fallen into neglect now because he works in Metropolis mainly these days and his mum is a senator and not being near smallville in ages.

[Apple Corps]

We are only 9 - 12 months away. My MBP 15" 2.33 - with an ATI graphics card is holding its own - even with some HD video playback :D

Given this economy - like many - my upgrade decisions will be based more on need and significant performance gains as opposed to chasing specs and the latest & greatest.

[iMacmatician]

What happened to Clarksfield?Most versions of Clarksfield are too hot for the laptops, and Apple is apparently not interested in bringing quad-core to the iMac.

We might see the lowest-end Clarksfield (I think it's the successor to the 2.0 GHz quad-core Penryn) in the MacBook Pro, but I'm not holding my breath. Especially when its clock speed is likely to be significantly lower than high-end Penryns and Arrandales.

EDIT: Oh, and is this "The 2009/2010 (Arrandale) Apple Notebooks: Everything We Know" thread? :D

[lapino]

I recently bought a MBP (unibody) and the only reason that I can think of that would make me consider an upgrade is seriously prolongued battery life or a graphics card with the same performance that does not make the fans go wild after a few mins

[iMacmatician]

Intel mentioned that while Clarkdale/Arrandale clock speeds and TDPs would be similar to what we have today, you’ll be getting much more performance. Definitely. 32 nm is 22% faster than 45 nm or something like that. And wouldn't the shrink also mean lower prices?

Seeing what we’ve seen thus far with Nehalem, I’d say a 2-core, 32nm version in a notebook is going to be reason enough for you to want to upgrade.It's worth noting that some of the features in Bloomfield/Gainestown, like 3-channel RAM (up from 2) and QuickPath, aren't present in most other Nehalem variants including Arrandale. But I'm sure the process shrink will help make up for that.

[Patriks7]

Definitely. 32 nm is 22% faster than 45 nm or something like that. And wouldn't the shrink also mean lower prices?

Lower costs, yeah. But highly doubtful that will be then carried on to the consumers.
Anyhow, I highly doubt we will see these in Macs until mid next year, earliest. Apple isn't usually the brand that jumps right away on the newest tech.

[spaceballl]

EDIT: Oh, and is this "The 2009/2010 (Arrandale) Apple Notebooks: Everything We Know" thread? :D
Let's do it! I'm getting bored w/ all these Penryn chips so talk of anything 'new' will at least get my blood goin'!

Man i'm such a nerd...

[ayeying]

I'll buy a new laptop when quad core comes out. Until then, I think my Penryn chips would handle most of what I need easily.

[iMacmatician]

Let's do it! I'm getting bored w/ all these Penryn chips so talk of anything 'new' will at least get my blood goin'!

Man i'm such a nerd...I was expecting a thread like this to pop up, but just for a probable refresh in the spring (with faster Penryns). So basically I had the layout basically done. OP, copy and paste the following into your first post, if you want.


The 2010 (Arrandale) MacBook Family: Everything We Know (put in title)

Slight niggle here: Please, please, PLEASE keep this discussion limited to the MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro. If someone wants to make a thread for the Mac (mini-)tablet, Mac netbook, or xMac like this, I would be happy to see one, but don't post any tablet, netbook, or xMac ramblings here, please. Thank you in advance.

Updated to reflect posts as of 3/16/2009; 20:17 EST.

This post will be edited as we gain more and more clarified information. The newest additions will be in red. Italics denote specs upon which we have not agreed on or can never know before release.

Release Information:

Clarksfield CPUs: Q3 2009
Arrandale CPUs: Q4 2009
Notebooks release date: Probably early 2010

Points yet to be decided upon:

If there will be a UK price increase, how much?
Will Apple move to quad-core or not?
Battery: Will the whole line move to the 17" MacBook Pro's battery technology?

Hardware Specifications:

Prices: MacBooks ($999 (white, if it's updated), $1299, $1599), MacBook Air ($1799, $2499), MacBook Pro ($1999, $2499, $2799)
UK prices may increase due to UK price increases in the recent desktop updates.

I/O:

Things we won't see:

USB 3.0 (2010, people)
WiMax (just making sure you're paying attention)
Blu-ray (see here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=6947332&postcount=1))

Narrative:

See the first post.

Note that updates in late 2009 or early 2010 do not necessarily mean there won't be interim updates before then. The Montevina refresh in the spring featuring higher-clocked CPUs may be a good time for such an update.

The main things:

Case design:
Will the MacBook Air get design tweaks to match the rest of the notebook line? What about the carbon fiber rumor?

Display:
13" for MacBook and MacBook Air, 15" and 17" for MacBook Pro. There was a rumor (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/01/16/apple_working_on_15_inch_macbook_air_says_blog.html) about a 15" MacBook Air in the works, to be released in H2 2009.
Possible resolution increases (even as options), 13" to 1440x900 and 15" to 1680x1050 (and maybe 1920x1200)?

CPU:
Several mobile variants of the Nehalem microarchitecture are being planned for release:*

Clarksfield - Extreme - 45 nm - 4 cores - 55 W - Q3 2009 (2 models)
Clarksfield - Performance - 45 nm - 4 cores - 45 W - Q3 2009 (1 model)
Arrandale - Mainstream/Performance - 32 nm - 2 cores - 45 W - Q4 2009 (2 models)
Arrandale - Power optimized performance - 32 nm - 2 cores - 35 W - Q4 2009 (3 models)

These replace various Penryn CPUs:

2.27/2.53 GHz - Extreme - 45 nm - 4 cores - 45 W (2 models)
2.0 GHz - Performance? - 45 nm - 4 cores - 45 W (1 model)
2.67/2.93 GHz - Mainstream/Performance - 45 nm - 2 cores - 35 W (2 models) — MacBook Pro
≤2.67 GHz - Power optimized performance - 45 nm - 2 cores - 25 W (≥3 models) — MacBook, MacBook Pro

So, we are likely to see:

MacBook: Arrandale (35 W)
MacBook Air: ???
MacBook Pro: Arrandale (25/35 W), maybe Clarksfield (45 W) in the higher-end

The low-end 45 W Clarksfield is probably the successor to the 2.0 GHz quad-core Penryn and is the only quad-core that would fit in the MacBook Pro. However, given Apple's insistence on dual-cores only for the iMacs and the likely low GHz of the 45 W Clarksfield, we likely won't see Clarksfield in the MacBook Pro. Clarksfield info is given here for reference purposes.

Now, about the MacBook Air. Last year's roadmaps (when Auburndale was scheduled for Q3 2009) did not show a version of Auburndale for the LV/ULV segment in the second half of 2009. So it seems that the LV Arrandale release date is up in the air at this point.

* Presumed Arrandale details from Auburndale info

RAM:

Mass storage:

GPU:
Arrandale will have a 45 nm integrated GPU in the chip package. This GPU might replace the current integrated GPU in the MacBook lineup, the 9400M. Clarksfield will not have an integrated GPU.

The little things:

The successor:

Clarksfield is expected to go 32 nm in the middle of 2010. Sandy Bridge, the next microarchitecture, is expected sometime around early 2011.

Explanation Section:

If needed…I might just put them up with “Main things” or maybe not.

TDPs:
Mobile Nehalem TDPs appear to be quite high. The reason for Clarksfield being 10 W higher than Penryn CPUs of equivalent heat is due to certain parts that were outside the chip now integrated into it. TDPs for Arrandale are 10 W higher than Penryn CPUs of equivalent heat, due to the integrated GPU in Arrandale being included in the CPU TDP.


I’d like more to be added if possible; any input or corrections are greatly appreciated.

Layout credits to Tallest Skil.

Contributors:

spaceballl: Initial thread, "The unofficial "I'm Waiting for Arrandale" thread..."
iMacmatician: "The 2009/2010 (Arrandale) Apple Notebooks: Everything We Know" and associated template
Tallest Skil: Thread title change suggestion to something more concise
colmaclean: UK price reminder
dmmcintyre3: Additional resolution wish

[J DILLA]

Looks like I will be joining you.... hopefully my powerbook g4 holds up until then:D

i was thinking about upgrading if they updated the laptops at WWDC or whatever, but i don't think i want to buy a laptop then if they are going to put the new chips in soon...

[Abstract]

What happened to Clarksfield?

I agree it should just be skipped. Look at the specs of that chip. It would be impossible to put inside anything but the 17" MBP, and even then I'm not so confident. Absolutely no point at this point, to be honest. May as well wait for Arrandale, which will be worth the wait.

[Tallest Skil]

Slight niggle here: Please, please, PLEASE keep this discussion limited to the MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro. If someone wants to make a thread for the Mac (mini-)tablet, Mac netbook, or xMac like this, I would be happy to see one, but don't post any tablet, netbook, or xMac ramblings here, please. Thank you in advance.

Best part. :cool:

OP, copy this text and replace your first post with it. Update as we gain more information. :D

[Kronie]

You should just buy what you need now. There is always going to be something faster and better. You will get your arrandale computer and they will come out something better a year later, If only you had waited!!

[kastenbrust]

I cant wait for Arrandale, its going to be the next serious mobile processor update so i dont see why people are rubbishing it. Hopefully Apple will get rid of the stupid 9400 when Arrandale's released.

[Tallest Skil]

You should just buy what you need now. There is always going to be something faster and better. You will get your arrandale computer and they will come out something better a year later, If only you had waited!!

And... what if they don't need it now?

I, personally, am a proponent of the NNBN/DNTW* philosophy, but...

I didn't need a Mac Pro for years. As it happened, Nehalem coincided with the time that I wanted a Mac Pro. Thus, I waited for Nehalem and got one.

*If you NEED it NOW, BUY it NOW. If you DON'T NEED it, THEN WAIT. Feel free to use this acronym on all future newbie threads on this topic.

[TheScavenger]

Put me on the waiting list!

4 threads :apple:

[Tallest Skil]

The Combined 2009/2010 (Clarksfield/Arrandale) Apple Notebooks: Everything We Know (put in title)

I would make one change, though:

The 2010 (Arrandale) MacBook Family: Everything We Know

It's more concise that way.

[iMacmatician]

Hopefully Apple will get rid of the stupid 9400 when Arrandale's released.…and replace it with Arrandale's integrated GPU. :p

I didn't need a Mac Pro for years. As it happened, Nehalem coincided with the time that I wanted a Mac Pro. Thus, I waited for Nehalem and got one.Wait…you ended up getting a Nehalem Mac Pro?

I would make one change, though:

The 2010 (Arrandale) MacBook Family: Everything We Know

It's more concise that way.Agreed.

[Tallest Skil]

Wait…you ended up getting a Nehalem Mac Pro?

Yes, I did. I'm currently in the process of getting Apple to uncancel it from my order.

Chalk the cancellation up to stupidity. I'm not going further than that. :p

Agreed.

Well, let's make this a reality, then! There should be a speed bump in between the release of Arrandale and now, but that's not important in the context of this thread's potential content.

[alphaod]

ROFL about this thread.

[colmaclean]

Wonder how much the UK price will be bumped upwards when these new processors are released...

[Abstract]

I cant wait for Arrandale, its going to be the next serious mobile processor update so i dont see why people are rubbishing it.

I don't think many people are. :confused:

[iMacmatician]

There should be a speed bump in between the release of Arrandale and now, but that's not important in the context of this thread's potential content.Yeah, Apple might adopt it or they might not (given the recent small speed bump). I added it just as a small note in my above post.

I'll update my post with additional info and other details until the OP updates his post. So then it'll just be a copy-and-paste.

[Patriks7]

…and replace it with Arrandale's integrated GPU. :p

Nooooo! Please! No more Intel graphics! Apple would shoot itself in the foot really badly if they went back to Intel!

[iMacmatician]

Nooooo! Please! No more Intel graphics! Apple would shoot itself in the foot really badly if they went back to Intel!And the GPU will be 45 nm in contrast to the 32 nm CPU. Hopefully the discrete GPU will be quite good, although that won't help the MacBook and MacBook Air.

[dmmcintyre3]

Possible resolution increases, 13" to 1440x900 and 15" to 1680x1050?[/INDENT]

Please do this Apple. 1440X900 on 15 inch sucks. Please add 1920*1200 option on 15 inch too!

Nooooo! Please! No more Intel graphics! Apple would shoot itself in the foot really badly if they went back to Intel!

Intel graphics suck

[Jiten]

Although power and performance is always good; I personally would not mind if they keep the current performance of the current C2D cpus but have much cooler running internals with more battery life.

Also Apple really needs to do a PRO 13 inch notebook. (Firewire and higher res). :)

[iMacmatician]

Although power and performance is always good; I personally would not mind if they keep the current performance of the current C2D cpus but have much cooler running internals with more battery life.Does anyone think we'll see the battery technology of the 17" MacBook Pro in the rest of the MacBook lines?

[daneoni]

I'll also probably be waiting there's just no point going from 45nm Penryn to 45nm Nehalem...32nm is where its at. It provides the biggest jump.

[illest813]

Whens the expected release date for snow leopard? If it is supposed to be soon then I may take the jump, otherwise i may have to wait

[LeoFio]

Looks like I will be joining you.... hopefully my powerbook g4 holds up until then:D

i was thinking about upgrading if they updated the laptops at WWDC or whatever, but i don't think i want to buy a laptop then if they are going to put the new chips in soon...


Same here. I was planning on getting a MBP this summer to replace my 12" PB, but I don't mind waiting a few more months for the newer chipset. I have waited this long already, what's a little longer! (I use Tiger and avoid newer versions of software to keep it going at a respectable pace)

[lazydesi]

I am waiting for new MBP

[pyromaniaque]

Please do this Apple. 1440X900 on 15 inch sucks. Please add 1920*1200 option on 15 inch too!



Intel graphics suck
That would be pushing it on the pro.
1680*1050. Definitely.

[J DILLA]

Same here. I was planning on getting a MBP this summer to replace my 12" PB, but I don't mind waiting a few more months for the newer chipset. I have waited this long already, what's a little longer! (I use Tiger and avoid newer versions of software to keep it going at a respectable pace)
i'm on a 1.67ghz 15", 2gb ram... leopard runs perfect on my comp... adobe cs4 works well as well :cool:

[spaceballl]

Does anyone think we'll see the battery technology of the 17" MacBook Pro in the rest of the MacBook lines?
I sure hope so - as much as people clamor for a removable battery, I think the percentage of people who actually own multiple batteries / lug around multiple batteries is quite small. I'd much rather just have a beefier battery integrated into the machine.
That would be pushing it on the pro.
1680*1050. Definitely.
I agree - take a look at thew new Sony Netbook to see how bad things get if you over-cram pixels in. they have them at Fry's now. Played with one last week and it sucks.
i'm on a 1.67ghz 15", 2gb ram... leopard runs perfect on my comp... adobe cs4 works well as well :cool:
"well" is all relative. someone on a brand new MBP who had to step down to a 1.67ghz single core machine might think otherwise!

[J DILLA]

"well" is all relative. someone on a brand new MBP who had to step down to a 1.67ghz single core machine might think otherwise!
as you may have noticed, i was conversing with my powerbook breathren, mbp owners need not apply:cool:

[relativist]

Now things are making sense, after I read this story:

http://www.dailytech.com/Intel+Replaces+Havendale+and+Auburndale+With+32nm+Die+Shrinks/article14225.htm

I'm was wondering for a while, if people were missing that the new cpu's, because of the integrated memory controller, needed to be compared to the entire power envelope of the way things are done with core 2 + external memory controller.

Anyway, the updates that are bieng worked on for SL make more sense to me know that I know the next gen of cpu will have an integrated GPU - like it or not. It's good to know Apple is preparing to use the GPU part of the chip. I'm also thinking of waiting. I missed the applecare deadline for my MB though, so I'm bumed. I wanted it, but forgot my actual purchase date and missed it by a few days - oopsie. The good news is I can live with my MB till the update, at least till the SL update! :cool:

[magallanes]

i think i will switch only if the new mbp bring a stable graphics card, the 8600m gt is a timebomb and the 9600m is about the same.
:mad:

[Ell2Cool]

wouldnt the advantage gained in the 45 --> 32 nm transition be compromised in the reduction of cache. doesnt arrandale only have 4MiB?

[cathyy]

I'm going to wait for Sandy Bridge. :)

[MrZebra]

I personally would not mind if they keep the current performance of the current C2D cpus but have much cooler running internals with more battery life.

With that logic they could have very well stayed with ppc processors.
I think the challenge is to keep improving all around, focusing on both performance and stability (battery life and internal cooling).

[John Jacob]

I'm going to wait for Sandy Bridge. :)

I have a new (well, 4-months old) Macbook that does everything I need, so I'm going to wait for Haswell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Haswell_(microarchitecture)). :D

[Anuba]

That would be pushing it on the pro.
1680*1050. Definitely.

Yeah... no... maybe. I'm on a 15.4" Dell Precision M65 with 1680x1050 right now and IMO this is as far as you can go on a 15". Dell has a 1920*1200 option on most of their 15" machines, but I think people who use that crank up the DPI in Windows - which doesn't increase the size of bitmap based graphics in applications...

On the other hand, MacOS graphics are generally bigger and clunkier than in Windows. Menu texts are bigger and spaced farther apart, dock icons are huge... I think 1920*1200 might actually be alright on a 15" MBP.

The *only* reason I'm looking at the MPB17" rather than the 15" is the goddamn 1440x900 resolution on the 15". I'd have considerably less real estate than on my PC, plus if you add the jumbo-sized MacOS graphics, you're looking at a tiny peephole that will be your workspace... no thanks.

I was planning on getting an MBP 17" when Snow Leopard is out, and a Mac Pro later, but maybe I should revise the plan and start with the MP, then wait for these "Arrandale" thingamabobs. One thing about that, though... what's the status on USB 3.0? Aren't they pretty much ready to roll that out?
I got burned some years ago when I bought a notebook literally days before USB 2.0 was introduced. It's OK on a desktop machine because you can just stick a card in, but with a laptop you're stuck with the onboard ports. So I wouldn't want an Arrandale in December '09 only to find it's upgraded with USB 3.0 ports in February '10...

[OasisNYK]

As much as I would love a new MBP now, I think I am in the waiting camp too.

I will be switching from a Dell Inspiron 6000 with a Pentium M 2.0 in it and 2 Gigs of ram so even if I upgraded now I would see a major improvement, but my laptop is still functioning for what I need it for and with the economy in the tank waiting seems to be the best plan.

I would really like to see the MBP resolution jump to 1680x1050 but I have yet to see Apple mess with the resolutions (only on the 17 inch I believe) so I don't hold out much hope on that front. A matte option on the 15 would also be awesome. By the time the new ones come out SSD's will probably be much cheaper as well so my user experience will be VASTLY different from what I use now (not to mention OSX).

[Anuba]

As much as I would love a new MBP now, I think I am in the waiting camp too.

I will be switching from a Dell Inspiron 6000 with a Pentium M 2.0 in it and 2 Gigs of ram so even if I upgraded now I would see a major improvement, but my laptop is still functioning for what I need it for and with the economy in the tank waiting seems to be the best plan.
Pretty much the same here. I have a Dell Precision M65 with the old Core Duo 2.0, 2 GB of RAM, 1680x1050 screen, Vista Ultimate 32-bit... it's been serving me well for nearly 3 years and I'm somewhat enjoying the wait because the performance gap to the latest models is widening every day, and whatever I buy is going to fly like a rocket.

This time I *will* wait. The last time I bought a computer was an iMac 24" 2.4 GHz, that's just over a year ago and it's been updated 2 times since then I think... the alu iMac came out mid-2007, I ordered mine in December '07, got it in January '08, it was only a matter of weeks before the 2.4 GHz with 4MB L2 cache was replaced with a 2.8 GHz w/ 6MB L2 for the same price, and that one was replaced yet again very recently with a 2.93 GHz that can use 8 GB of RAM. I know computers grow old quickly but come ON, antiquated after just a year...?

I would really like to see the MBP resolution jump to 1680x1050 but I have yet to see Apple mess with the resolutions (only on the 17 inch I believe) so I don't hold out much hope on that front.
Well they have changed their policy on that front. It used to be that DPI should be uniform across Apple's entire product line -- the original Titanium PowerBook G4 which is what started this whole metal laptop enclosure thing Apple has been into since then, had a laughable 1152x768 screen... you get more pixels vertically if you stack two iPhone screens.

Dell has offered a selection of 1440x900, 1680x1050 or 1920x1200 on pretty much all of their 15.4" widescreen notebooks since 2003. Apple has never gone above 1440x900. And this used to be the main reason why I wouldn't touch a PowerBook or MacBook with a 40 foot pole. Just about all applications I work in (Photoshop, Flash, Cubase, Reason etc) are useless on less than 1680x1050, all you do is scroll, resize and toggle tool panels on/off...

A matte option on the 15 would also be awesome. By the time the new ones come out SSD's will probably be much cheaper as well so my user experience will be VASTLY different from what I use now (not to mention OSX).
Cheaper SSDs will certainly rock. In 5 years or so I think they'll have done to notebook HDDs what LCD monitors did to CRT. As for matte, I have yet to see a glossy MBP first hand. It certainly doesn't bother me on the iMac, but that screen is in an upright position, a notebook screen will be flatter against the table and probably reflect the ceiling where the lights are. But the matte version of the MBP looks really bad, almost broken, like a car missing the front bumper or something.

[PeterQC]

Please do this Apple. 1440X900 on 15 inch sucks. Please add 1920*1200 option on 15 inch too!



Intel graphics suck

Just wait for Larrabe :)

About the RAM: Option for update up to 8GB on all MBP models? 2GB standard, 4GB option for the Air?

Screen: Matte option for the High-end 15'' MBP?

[spaceballl]

Yeah I think 4GB in the Air is a must. that thing really chugs.

I'm hoping 4GB laptop sticks have come down significantly in price by the time Arrandale comes out - I'd love to get an 8GB RAM system.

[OasisNYK]

Well if Apple finally breaks down and puts 1680x1050 in their 15 inch laptops I think it would make the switching decision a lot easier - I dont see how they have gotten away without it for so long.

I am pretty much set on getting one when the next revision comes out, there are just a few things I wish they would put in that would make it perfect.

Anyone think they will come out with a 13 inch pro version?

[PeterQC]

Anyone think they will come out with a 13 inch pro version?

There's already one! It's called the MacBook.

Seeing at how the designs are nearly the same, a 13inch Pro would look exactly the same as a MacBook, only with a really small speaker grill.

[bbadalucco]

Based off everything I've heard/read the arrandale processor will be much better than the processors in the current line of MBPs. With that said, how much faster will that processor be for someone who only uses their MBP for apps like safar, itunes, Microsoft Office and occasionally using VM Fusion?

I just got a MBP, not really looking to update for some time...I'm just curious how the processor will help the speed of a laptop for a user like me?

[yetanotherdave]

I really wish I could wait, I said I would wait, but my wife really needs a laptop now, which means me buying a MBP now and giving her my old Napa/Merom MB.
Oh wells, that's still a good upgrade... right?
I would also like to get a higher res screen, SL, integrated battery, USB3 but I'd wait forever.

[jjahshik32]

Yeah... no... maybe. I'm on a 15.4" Dell Precision M65 with 1680x1050 right now and IMO this is as far as you can go on a 15". Dell has a 1920*1200 option on most of their 15" machines, but I think people who use that crank up the DPI in Windows - which doesn't increase the size of bitmap based graphics in applications...

On the other hand, MacOS graphics are generally bigger and clunkier than in Windows. Menu texts are bigger and spaced farther apart, dock icons are huge... I think 1920*1200 might actually be alright on a 15" MBP.

The *only* reason I'm looking at the MPB17" rather than the 15" is the goddamn 1440x900 resolution on the 15". I'd have considerably less real estate than on my PC, plus if you add the jumbo-sized MacOS graphics, you're looking at a tiny peephole that will be your workspace... no thanks.

I was planning on getting an MBP 17" when Snow Leopard is out, and a Mac Pro later, but maybe I should revise the plan and start with the MP, then wait for these "Arrandale" thingamabobs. One thing about that, though... what's the status on USB 3.0? Aren't they pretty much ready to roll that out?
I got burned some years ago when I bought a notebook literally days before USB 2.0 was introduced. It's OK on a desktop machine because you can just stick a card in, but with a laptop you're stuck with the onboard ports. So I wouldn't want an Arrandale in December '09 only to find it's upgraded with USB 3.0 ports in February '10...

USB 3.0 is no biggy IMHO. I think even after its released Q1 of next year, it'll take a while for other manufacturers to start using it.

Also dont forget you'll already have fw800 on the 17". I have a strong feeling that usb 3.0 will just equal in real world transfer speeds as fw800.

[bossxii]

Based off everything I've heard/read the arrandale processor will be much better than the processors in the current line of MBPs. With that said, how much faster will that processor be for someone who only uses their MBP for apps like safar, itunes, Microsoft Office and occasionally using VM Fusion?

I just got a MBP, not really looking to update for some time...I'm just curious how the processor will help the speed of a laptop for a user like me?

The average user, which you describe and I am, won't see much of a difference as a graphic or video designer that is using pro applications that are rendering or processing large amounts of data. Even for gaming the current models are not "maxed" out from a processor standpoint.

There are other bottlenecks that effect performance such as the HDD or GPU vs the processor. Current models will last the average user several years without any issues due strictly from processor speed. I see a SSD helping my MBP in the next year more of a boost to overall performance than a new processor would be.

[thedomus]

If you compose / produce music 'in the box' it is dead easy to max the CPU's in the MBP using synth/sampler plug-ins like Omnisphere, Kontakt, Massive or PLAY.
The day won't come soon enough for quad cpu in a MBP.... as far as us muso's are concerned!!!

[mason.kramer]

This is a cross post from the Mac Ach, with updates:

One thing is for sure: the next laptop I buy will be based on the 32 NM Arrandale CPU. The reason is that these parts are going to be extremely power efficient.

Here is what I know about Arrandale, mostly from anandtech's article (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3513&p=5):

Arrandale is dual core and hyperthreaded = 2 hardware, 4 logical cores.

The 32 NM parts are also fabricated using a new dielectric layer formulation. They will run at a lower voltage than the current generation mobile chips. The result is a cooler chip that requires much less power (performance is directly proportional to voltage, but power is proportional to a higher power of voltage.) The less heat, the less power required to cool, as well. So this new high-K layer is the best thing about the part for a mobile application.

Important, graphics will be integrated onto the same die as the CPU, at 45 NM. This is the first time that this is happening, I believe. Again: not talking about integrated graphics. I'm talking about on die graphics. This means the GPU is on the same wafer as the CPU, not just "integrated into the chipset".

http://media.bestofmicro.com/L/Z/179639/original/intel_westmere_slide.jpg

Because it's on the same die, that means it's using the same dielectric layer, which, as I've already mentioned, leads to much lower power usage. The graphics are fabbed at 45 nm, which implies that the computer will fit into a smaller form factor, especially because space is saved in the chipset as well. (There is also only one chip in the chipset, not two as in the current platform.)

For comparison, the current generation of Intel IG's that everyone hates were fabbed at 130nm, and the current Nvidia parts are 65nm. 45nm is very small for a gpu w/ today's tech (it's the same process being used on Intel's Nehalems today, which are pretty much state-of-the-art).

Because of the low TDP (total dissipated power) of the new platform, we might be looking at passive cooling. However, because the GPU will be on the same die as the CPU, that's going to be a high density spot that might require active cooling. If passive works out, that's another power savings, because fans cost power.

SSDs are also a potential power saving feature of the next Macbook. Properly designed SSDs use much less power than any rotating drive, they dissipate a correspondingly smaller amount of heat, and are the single fastest upgrade that can made to any computer today, desktop or mobile. They are going to revolutionize the mobile industry within the next 12 months.

Taking Arrandale, passive cooling, and SSDs together, and you've got a truly special mobile platform. Apple could add a custom engineered Li-Ion batteries to their entire portable line in the next major refresh (and I'm not saying they will, but I sincerely hope that they do. However, I've recently been extremely disappointed by the offerings that Apple is putting out, so I'm trying not to get my hopes up.) If they do add in a better battery, we're looking at the era of laptops that last 8-16 hours with real usage - not this 30% brightness hooey. I hate to speculate with hard numbers, because I obviously don't have any, but the power savings are there. If it all works out, it would mean that you don't need to bring your charger with you when you go out. They'd be like cell phones: you plug them in at night. That's not just an incremental upgrade with longer bars on the benchmarks, that's a real change in convenience.

Meanwhile the on-die memory controller, advanced architecture (including hyperthreading), and new instruction & chipsets, will probably combine to make a faster product. (Though, considering the debacle with the new Mac Pros, anything is possible.)

Arrandales are scheduled to ship Q4 '09-Q1 '10. If Apple does not pull an '09 Mac Pro on us, I relish the thought of purchasing one of these.

[Apple Corps]

mason.kramer - thanks for that posting. I decided some time ago to hold off purchasing because my 2.33 MBP C2D continues to perform very well for my needs.

Chasing specs often gets you something new on paper that does not really translate to that much better "real world" performance.

That said, early projections were that the new Nehalem architecture was going to be a HUGE improvement in performance. More recent projections appear to have been toned down. So - we wait and see.

When one purchases a several generation newer architecture there is a good chance that the "wow" factor will be higher. However - my current MBP keeps powering along and making me smile :D

[t0mat0]

Anyone got some calendar suggestions for when we'll hear more about Clarksfield and Arrandale from Intel?

[applecultvictim]

Have a look in the intel roadmap in this forum, arrandale is supposed to have taken a small delay with it shipping in Jan. 09.

[t0mat0]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10221737-64.html
Seems to have it in 2009 going off the above link from cnet's Intel graphic, and also Otellini's recent comments about sampling Westmere.
We're assuming that Arrandale will be a few months after Clarksfield still, right?

[chrmjenkins]

For the display section, it's worth mentioning Apple's new contract with LG, especially the part about OLED screens.

[daneoni]

For the display section, it's worth mentioning Apple's new contract with LG, especially the part about OLED screens.

It would probably be like a $1000+ BTO option

[iLloyd]

Can't wait!!!

My wonderful 12" 1.33GHz PowerBook will be 5 in August (what is that in people years?). It's still serving me well, but I told myself I could upgrade after 5 years.

Must....hold...on...for...Arrandale...Yarrraaaghh!!

[applecultvictim]

Can someone tell what the advantages of oled might be? In terms of eye strain for example?

[DoNoHarm]

Guys, I remember this process before I bought this current MBP Classic. I was waiting for the "imminent" release of the new macbooks for like 6 months. I probably made MacRumors hundreds of dollars in ad revenue checking out the forums for hints as to when the new release will be. And in the end, Apple makes the prices for the classic macbook pro's on clearance so enticing that I ended up with an old MBP instead of a unibody Macbook! So beware with the waiting - especially if you're stuck with a PC or anything less than a perfectly functioning computer (in which case - why were you upgrading, again? :))

[Bubba Satori]

And the GPU will be 45 nm in contrast to the 32 nm CPU. Hopefully the discrete GPU will be quite good, although that won't help the MacBook and MacBook Air.

ATI 4770 40nm GPUs just came out. I expect them to be at 32nm about the time that Intel is at 32nm. Don't worry. Be happy.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_radeon_4770_performance/page2.asp

[MrZebra]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10221737-64.html

Both Arrandale (32-nanometer) and Clarksfield (45-nanometer) chips are targeted at the "thin-and-light" laptop market, according to Intel documentation.

this screams apple if you think about it.

[slicecom]

Please do this Apple. 1440X900 on 15 inch sucks. Please add 1920*1200 option on 15 inch too!

If they make a 15" macbook pro with 1920*1200 resolution, I'll buy it the day it comes out. The pathetic 1440*900 resolution is the only reason I'm holding off.

[slicecom]

There's already one! It's called the MacBook.

Seeing at how the designs are nearly the same, a 13inch Pro would look exactly the same as a MacBook, only with a really small speaker grill.

... and better graphics, and firewire.

[Tallest Skil]

... and better graphics, and firewire.

You can't fit FireWire or a second GPU into a 12" shell unless you take out the ODD.

[MrZebra]

You can't fit FireWire or a second GPU into a 12" shell unless you take out the ODD.

I wish they had a system like that as a BTO option!

[Dreamail]

You can't fit FireWire or a second GPU into a 12" shell unless you take out the ODD.

Well, the 12" PowerBook has a dedicated Nvidia GPU (plus presumably some North-/Southbridge chip), FireWire 400 and a CD/DVD Superdrive.
So you can have your cake and eat it!

Granted it's thicker than the current MB. But not everyone wants superthin. Sometimes a slightly thicker laptop is better - if its overall footprint is small.
It's the desk space and bag size you care about, not necessarily 1/2 inch of extra thickness.

[Tallest Skil]

Well, the 12" PowerBook has a dedicated Nvidia GPU (plus presumably some North-/Southbridge chip), FireWire 400 and a CD/DVD Superdrive.
So you can have your cake and eat it!

Granted it's thicker than the current MB. But not everyone wants superthin. Sometimes a slightly thicker laptop is better - if its overall footprint is small.

Yes, but that was PowerPC and has absolutely nothing to do with what Intel/nVidia boards offer.

[slicecom]

You can't fit FireWire or a second GPU into a 12" shell unless you take out the ODD.

Im 100% sure that if they wanted to, Apple could find a way to fit it all in. They're the masters of miniaturization. They made a 12" Powerbook like 7 years ago with all of the above features, if anything it would be EASIER to do with modern technology.

[Dreamail]

Yes, but that was PowerPC and has absolutely nothing to do with what Intel/nVidia boards offer.

It's much more a core design issue than anything.

The 12" PowerBook has a logic board that goes on top of the HD and hence can be much larger.
Apple's obsession with thinness now prevents them from having the logic board go on top of any other component, leaving (after ODD, HD and battery) very little room.

This IMHO is the wrong way to go and not a 'one size fits all' kind of decision.

Make the motherboard larger, as large as it needs to be to house the components you want, and put it on top of the HD and ODD if you have to.

That way the laptop will be 1/4 - 1/2 inch thicker overall, but its footprint can be kept a lot smaller.


In a portable 12" machine it's footprint that counts, not thickness.
I'd rather have all the features I want in a slightly thicker 12" laptop than a super thin 12" laptop that is anemic on features.

[slicecom]

It's much more a core design issue than anything.

The 12" PowerBook has a logic board that goes on top of the HD and hence can be much larger.
Apple's obsession with thinness now prevents them from having the logic board go on top of any other component, leaving (after ODD, HD and battery) very little room.

This IMHO is the wrong way to go and not a 'one size fits all' kind of decision.

Make the motherboard larger, as large as it needs to be to house the components you want, and put it on top of the HD and ODD if you have to.

That way the laptop will be 1/4 - 1/2 inch thicker overall, but its footprint can be kept a lot smaller.


In a portable 12" machine it's footprint that counts, not thickness.
I'd rather have all the features I want in a slightly thicker 12" laptop than a super thin 12" laptop that is anemic on features.

Great post. I have nothing to add. :)

[Tallest Skil]

Im 100% sure that if they wanted to, Apple could find a way to fit it all in. They're the masters of miniaturization. They made a 12" Powerbook like 7 years ago with all of the above features, if anything it would be EASIER to do with modern technology.

'Kay, well, when you can fit a FireWire 400 port and the chips required to have FireWire onto this, you let us know.

http://images.appleinsider.com/ifixitmbpalum13-2.jpg

[slicecom]

'Kay, well, when you can fit a FireWire 400 port and the chips required to have FireWire onto this, you let us know.

http://images.appleinsider.com/ifixitmbpalum13-2.jpg

Dreamail just explained in depth how it could easily be done; the same way it was done for the 12" PowerBook. Logic board over the HDD.

[Bye Bye Baby]

Wonder how much the UK price will be bumped upwards when these new processors are released...

Yes, that does suck

[applecultvictim]

@dreammail, yeah excellent post, kudos from me too.:)

[Dreamail]

Thanks everyone.

I just wish Apple would read these forums and learn from our discussions...

Totally agree with Apple that thin laptops are cool, but once you start shrinking below a certain footprint you have to go 3D and move up into the third dimension.

And there's no shame in that. It doesn't mean you're compromising your overall cool designs. It's more a 'best tool for the job' kind of solution. Thinness works for 13-14"+ laptops, but there's a point where it becomes cost prohibitive or even impossible.

The 12" PowerBook has a full sized keyboard and I'd leave it at that. So I wouldn't go smaller than 12"
But I'd rather have a thicker 12" MB or MBP with a dedicated GPU and FireWire 800 port than having a superthin MBP that has to be 15" to house those extra components.


With 1.8" SSDs coming down in price perhaps Apple can once more put parts of the motherboard on top of the 'HD' without having to sacrifice thinness gaining enough motherboard real estate for some extra components...

[spaceballl]

All,

The rumors are that Apple will be updating their notebooks at WWDC. To all the Arrandale waiters, don't succumb! Even if they show us nice things like Blu Ray, more RAM, higher CPU speeds, and bigger batteries, hold the fort for Arrandale!! :D:D:D:D:D

[iLloyd]

All,

The rumors are that Apple will be updating their notebooks at WWDC. To all the Arrandale waiters, don't succumb! Even if they show us nice things like Blu Ray, more RAM, higher CPU speeds, and bigger batteries, hold the fort for Arrandale!! :D:D:D:D:D

I'm with you spaceball, but it ain't gonna be easy. My PowerBook is still going strong, but I'm very tempted by those shiny new MacBooks.

[Artful Dodger]

All,

The rumors are that Apple will be updating their notebooks at WWDC. To all the Arrandale waiters, don't succumb! Even if they show us nice things like Blu Ray, more RAM, higher CPU speeds, and bigger batteries, hold the fort for Arrandale!! :D:D:D:D:D

I'm trying but I'm at that point where I need to get a new Mac and the 17" fits the needs but I'm holding out until WWDC :rolleyes: This poor iBook just doesn't cut it anymore and my iMac, super hero chin and all just needs a serious recharge. I don't think I'll be unhappy no-matter what happens but like I said, Blender + my iMac = time to get my morning cardio in and an afternoon shake for the next round :p
Maybe another week or two of these threads and I'll be guilted into waiting…of course I could sell it come Jan/Feb or after the next wave comes out kinda like a short term lease :cool:

[t0mat0]

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13484&Itemid=1
Is this old news?

The official number is 35W for the dual core 32nm [Arrandale, dual-core Nehalem based] CPU and its 45nm IGP graphics.

[applecultvictim]

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13484&Itemid=1
Is this old news?

No it isn't bad it's not good news either, tdps are very high, what's going on here? This is suppose to be an upgrade, why are the c2d getting better numbers? Is it the crappy integrated graphics on die?:mad:

[iMacmatician]

No it isn't bad it's not good news either, tdps are very high, what's going on here? This is suppose to be an upgrade, why are the c2d getting better numbers? Is it the crappy integrated graphics on die?:mad:35 W Arrandale = 25 W Penryn.

We finally managed to get some details about Arrandale, dual-core Nehalem based 32nm CPU with 45nm integrated GPU packed in multi chip packaging.

The official number is 35W for the dual core 32nm CPU and its 45nm IGP graphics. This is far from being cool but its not that bad either. At the same time, the Calpella two chip platform will offer a 38 percent area saving over the Montevina platform, which probably means that notebooks could become smaller and thinner.

To paint a better picture, a T9400 Core 2 Duo at 2.54GHz has the same 35W TDP, while T9600 at 2.66GHz can maintain 25W TDP.

The GM45 consumes 12W which gets the whole notebook platform to 47W before we add the TDP values of the Southbridge that is at least additional 5W. Arrandale will get things better as the whole CPU and graphics will get you to 35W TDP, but Intel’s ultra low voltage CPUs can have a TDP of 10W and Arrandale cannot really compete with that.

There might be slower clocked Arrandale that will get its TDP to twenty something values that might find its place to Ultra low voltage market.They posted an earlier report saying Arrandale TDPs would be 18/25/35 W.

[J DILLA]

I'm with you spaceball, but it ain't gonna be easy. My PowerBook is still going strong, but I'm very tempted by those shiny new MacBooks.
i'm definitely waiting.. my powerbook is fine. the current lineup isnt that special IMO.. not really too thrilled with them. plus i dont want to buy a computer that will have a soon-to-be outdated cpu..... (inb4 everything gets outdated, you can wait forever for updates, etc.)

[andiwm2003]

All,

The rumors are that Apple will be updating their notebooks at WWDC. To all the Arrandale waiters, don't succumb! Even if they show us nice things like Blu Ray, more RAM, higher CPU speeds, and bigger batteries, hold the fort for Arrandale!! :D:D:D:D:D

you're forgetting one point: apple might get rid of the optical drive in 2009/2010. so if you need a fully featured mac with firewire, optical drive and express card you might buy now.

it was similar with the unibodies. people who waited lost the choice of a matte screen and got an inferior fw chipset.

as it stands now you have to be concerned that waiting costs you features.

[bbadalucco]

you're forgetting one point: apple might get rid of the optical drive in 2009/2010. so if you need a fully featured mac with firewire, optical drive and express card you might buy now.

it was similar with the unibodies. people who waited lost the choice of a matte screen and got an inferior fw chipset.

as it stands now you have to be concerned that waiting costs you features.

Well, sounds like Apple is moving in the right direction then. I always figured it was best to take away features as time moved on.

[iMacmatician]

Another possible reason why we may not see Clarksfield in the MacBook Pros…

Clarksfield and Callpela platform are therefore doomed to use Nvidia’s and ATI’s discrete graphics chips and this usually means a bigger thermal dissipation and hotter notebooks. You can expect that Clarksfield alone will have 35 to 45W TDP and if you add the chipset and discrete graphics, you can paint a picture that Clarksfield will probably have worse battery life than currently available quad-core notebooks.

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13504&Itemid=1

[applecultvictim]

35 W Arrandale = 25 W Penryn.

They posted an earlier report saying Arrandale TDPs would be 18/25/35 W.

Ok, great that's consoling, but I am afraid they might come in much later than expected and include a die shrink for the graphics right? Otherwise they have to slash clock speeds radically to get to 18 ghz.

That said the part where you bolded, you are right about that, but aren't the macbooks using cooler nvidia integrated numbers so the numbers are slightly off than the gma? Also are we going to be saddled with intel integrated graphics as part of arrandale with no ability to choose, because everything points that way. If we have to sacrifice the so far so good integrated nvidia and go back to integrated intel we best stick with penryn...:eek:

Also there's that whole nvida vs. intel saga that nvidia is suing them for the aforementioned reasons for not honoring an agreement to give them advanced plans of their cpus so they cannot accomodate the gpus for them....

[iMacmatician]

Ok, great that's consoling, but I am afraid they might come in much later than expected and include a die shrink for the graphics right? Otherwise they have to slash clock speeds radically to get to 18 ghz.18 W you mean? The integrated GPU is still 45 nm, although I've heard it's at least 2x as good as the X3100 (or something like that). Clock speeds would be lowered significantly for 18 W, but it's the same with the ULV Penryns.

Also are we going to be saddled with intel integrated graphics as part of arrandale with no ability to choose, because everything points that way. If we have to sacrifice the so far so good integrated nvidia and go back to integrated intel we best stick with penryn...:eek:If so, then I'm also pretty sure we'll go back to integrated Intel GPUs. Of course Apple will then promote the CPUs instead of the GPUs.

[SPEEDwithJJ]

Also are we going to be saddled with intel integrated graphics as part of arrandale with no ability to choose, because everything points that way. If we have to sacrifice the so far so good integrated nvidia and go back to integrated intel we best stick with penryn...:eek:

If so, then I'm also pretty sure we'll go back to integrated Intel GPUs. Of course Apple will then promote the CPUs instead of the GPUs.

Apple going back to Intel integrated graphics may not be bad news because if they do so, then we'll probably see ATI dedicated graphics in the MBP.

[t0mat0]

With the Mac mini, MacBook, MacBook Air and MacBook Pro, low end iMacs and ATV all using the 9400M
& MacBook Pro using 9600 GT - Nvidia's powering the MacBook family.

If we're just going to see bumps to Penryns, is the focus for laptops for the next update going to be more about Nvidia's 40nm iGT209 to replace the 9400M and the replacement to the 9600M GT (http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-9600M-GT.9449.0.html) rather than fawning for a Q1 2010 Arrandale?

Anyone know anything about the 9600M "Graphics Tesla"'s replacement? Seeing as Apple announced the 9400M officially before Nvidia did - will we see this behaviour again at the next refresh? Or something at Computex before WWDC?

Nvidia's talked up getting 2 GPUs to run together next time - I'd imagine we're going to see a bigger portion of GPU in whatever format across the range - do you think this likely?

The hardware is capable of switching between integrated and discrete on the fly and it’s available today on the Window platform. It is not there today with Apple, but in some of our upcoming designs and in our hybrid SLI designs you can have both chips work together.

Will Tegra have a place in the Apple stable? (sorry to tangent) - Is Apple skunkworking something with Nvidia? Where does Tesla stand with Apple? (Nvidia seemingly not making any, but coordinating other hardware manufacturers)

Apple has taken some credit for how the 9400M was implemented in its new MacBooks. How instrumental were they in leveraging this technology?

They worked very closely with us to be the first out on the block with the chip and integrated with their system architecture, and we worked with them on the thermals. It has been a long collaboration with them on the MacBooks. We really worked collaboratively for a long time.

Tegra is very low power and you can see high-end Tegra in small netbooks, depending on how big the netbooks are. This is kind of where they cross over. Tegra is going to be very big next year. We have high hopes for it.

Will Apple go with boosted ARM for a tablet form? If they do - what's OS X on ARM going to look like? Is an external laptop docking station incorporating an graphics card pie in the sky?
http://blog.laptopmag.com/nvidia-9400m-coming-to-five-other-notebooks-well-snag-30-percent-market-share-from-intel

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10227691-64.html

[iMacmatician]

If we're just going to see bumps to Penryns, is the focus for laptops for the next update going to be more about Nvidia's 40nm iGT209 to replace the 9400M and the replacement to the 9600M GT (http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-9600M-GT.9449.0.html) rather than fawning for a Q1 2010 Arrandale?Thanks. I've known possible successors to the 9600M, but I haven't heard of a iGT209 before. It's possible that Apple's holding back a release for these GPUs, could also explain why the MacBook Air hasn't been updated despite the 2.13 GHz LV C2D having been released for a small while now.

Anyone know anything about the 9600M "Graphics Tesla"'s replacement? Seeing as Apple announced the 9400M officially before Nvidia did - will we see this behaviour again at the next refresh? Or something at Computex before WWDC?I'm thinking the week before WWDC, but that's my early prediction and I'm not so sure of it now.

Will Apple go with boosted ARM for a tablet form? If they do - what's OS X on ARM going to look like?I see iPhone OS in anything ARM.

[t0mat0]

Things get more interesting:
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/42340/135/

Intel phasing the Core i7 940 processor out news yesterday (stuck between the cheaper 2.66GHz Core i7 920 and outperformed by the 3.2GHz Core i7 965 Extreme Edition - which is also being phased out this year, to make space for the 950 and the 975. If the stepping is better for overclocking, what about the potential for underclocking to help a TDP?

Of 1 million Nehalems - half were Xeon 5500s , half were i7 CPUs

The obvious conclusion is that Intel has other products that will be taking the place of these i7 CPUs rather sooner than later, even if the official word is that the company will be shipping the current i7s “through 2009.” However, we can’t help but feel that these shiny new chips suddenly look somewhat old.

Makes a bump for MB, MBP in June more likely? Will be interesting to see how things pan out.
Edit - Fudzilla mentioned (http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=11906&Itemid=1) this back in February. Nothing being given much being given away prior to Computex/WWDC it seems (http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10232758-64.html).

[applecultvictim]

things sure get more interesting but more confusing too... I wonder why all these zig zagging from intel, apple chose them for the transparency of their roadmap and here they are constantly mudding the waters and confusing everyone for no apparent reason...I wonder why ...

[t0mat0]

things sure get more interesting but more confusing too... I wonder why all these zig zagging from intel, apple chose them for the transparency of their roadmap and here they are constantly mudding the waters and confusing everyone for no apparent reason...I wonder why ...

Another take on this -
Apple apparently nearly went with PA Semi and was in talks with them before the announcement of the Intel switch. Now APple had prepared for that switch for years. They didn't give IBM much warning about all this either.
PA Semi were pissed. Then a bit later, they were acquired, along with several big personnel.

Is Apple wanting to go with both, rather than just Intel? With ARM getting more powerful, and Intel getting less power-hungry, they're going to be scrapping this year perhaps? Then throw in NVidia and Intel disputes (with Nvidia powering the entire MacBook line, Apple TV, and some iMacs graphically) and mabybe that's part of the reason for a recipe of muddied waters.

Intel's still having problems with graphics, but isn't wanting to play nice with Nvidia potentially (see Ion etc).

[xlii]

Well, sounds like Apple is moving in the right direction then. I always figured it was best to take away features as time moved on.

Me to, but I'm waiting for the etchersketch version of the macBook.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EtchASketchPc190022.jpg

[Bubba Satori]

And wouldn't the shrink also mean lower prices?


Thanks for my daily chuckle.

[Firefly2002]

Definitely. 32 nm is 22% faster than 45 nm or something like that. And wouldn't the shrink also mean lower prices?

It's worth noting that some of the features in Bloomfield/Gainestown, like 3-channel RAM (up from 2) and QuickPath, aren't present in most other Nehalem variants including Arrandale. But I'm sure the process shrink will help make up for that.

Lol.... die shrinks don't mean they're faster, it just means they can be clocked higher (generally). Tri-channel RAM really doesn't matter at the moment, as even dual-channel RAM makes really no difference in overall system performance, at least not for a dual-core laptop system.

Anyway, at the moment I'm using a 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo Lenovo T500... I like the 256 MB Radeon 3650 but tbh I'd much prefer a 4650 (or a 4750/70 if they get that 40nm part into a laptop in time, which would be phenomenal), and I want a quad-core chip... :/ Only thing is I think even@32nm clocks for quad won't be past 2.4 in Nehalem-based laptop chips for anything as thin as the MBP... and it seems like such a tiny leap to go from a 2.4 Core2 to a 2.4 i7 even if it's got HTT.. -.- Hopefully they'll clock them higher, but I doubt it. We've been pretty much stuck with 2.4 GHz as bottom/midrange for three years...

Thanks for my daily chuckle.

He's not really wrong. Die shrinks mean less material per chip, more chips per wafer, ergo less expense per wafer and less expense for the company. Granted it's not just a fab switch but he's not totally off-base.

[spaceballl]

I read this yesterday - seems relevant to the Calpella / Arrandale discussion...

ased on the estimated prices at which Apple buys the chips for the MacBook Pro line, it is believed that Apple will use the 1.6 and 1.73 GHz model for their professional segment. The next generation of chips will be released in 2010, when the 32-nm dual-core chip codenamed “Arrandale” is to be launched. Apple is believed to use that chipset for the 13 inch MacBook line. Because the specifications for Arrandale translate into higher clock speeds, it is not entire impossible that Apple will wait to use this chipset and abandon the Calpella platform.

[t0mat0]

I read this yesterday - seems relevant to the Calpella / Arrandale discussion...

Why just the 13 inch MacBook?

[Burnsey]

I'm still using the merom Core 2 Duos in my MBP, I would wait for after Arrandale before updating. If I had a Penryn MBP I wouldnt even consider it.

[spaceballl]

Why just the 13 inch MacBook?
I think the source was just speculating that the lower power chips would be in the smaller machines. However, typically Apple picks one "type" of chip and roles it out across the macbook / MBP lineup. The one exception to this would be the MBA. However, there are varying cache sizes among the CPUs in their macbook / MBP lineup.

[moiety]

Apple isn't usually the brand that jumps right away on the newest tech.

Right, except for ditching the floppy drive, popularizing USB on all their machines for a wide range of peripherals, being one of the founding supporters of FireWire, multi-touch, widescreen displays in notebooks, ditching their entire CRT lineup, and literally jumping at brand-new, Intel-developed tech like EFI and GUID partitions. :P

But other than that, no, they shy away from the newest tech. ;)

[spaceballl]

Right, except for ditching the floppy drive, popularizing USB on all their machines for a wide range of peripherals, being one of the founding supporters of FireWire, multi-touch, widescreen displays in notebooks, ditching their entire CRT lineup, and literally jumping at brand-new, Intel-developed tech like EFI and GUID partitions. :P

But other than that, no, they shy away from the newest tech. ;)
Haha and to add to your point, they have recently been shipping Mac Pros w/ Intel CPUs before the intel CPU is officially announced :D

[Eric S.]

Haha and to add to your point, they have recently been shipping Mac Pros w/ Intel CPUs before the intel CPU is officially announced :D

But Intel CPUs are so 2006. ;)

[mikes70mustang]

But Intel CPUs are so 2006. ;)

does anyone else get a cold, disgusting, shiver feeling when thinking about Pentium processors? :D

[t0mat0]

does anyone else get a cold, disgusting, shiver feeling when thinking about Pentium processors? :D

Ain't they the future? http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/07/07/1945203 ;)

[Eric S.]

does anyone else get a cold, disgusting, shiver feeling when thinking about Pentium processors? :D

:) Even worse, all x86 CPUs implement real mode just to be compatible with all previous x86 CPUs, and actually start up in that mode so the OS has to run 8086 code to put the processor in protected mode.

[mikes70mustang]

the pain, the horror

[bbadalucco]

I've been reading that its probable the Arrandale won't go over 1.6ghz...is that going to be a limiting factor if true?

[Thiol]

I've been reading that its probable the Arrandale won't go over 1.6ghz...is that going to be a limiting factor if true?

I think you're thinking of Clarksfield, the quad core processor. Arrandale should have clock speeds comparable to the current Penryns.

[bbadalucco]

I think you're thinking of Clarksfield, the quad core processor. Arrandale should have clock speeds comparable to the current Penryns.

This is what I've been seeing, things like this.

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13566&Itemid=35

???

[thefurion]

Lol.... die shrinks don't mean they're faster, it just means they can be clocked higher (generally). Tri-channel RAM really doesn't matter at the moment, as even dual-channel RAM makes really no difference in overall system performance, at least not for a dual-core laptop system.

Anyway, at the moment I'm using a 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo Lenovo T500... I like the 256 MB Radeon 3650 but tbh I'd much prefer a 4650 (or a 4750/70 if they get that 40nm part into a laptop in time, which would be phenomenal), and I want a quad-core chip... :/ Only thing is I think even@32nm clocks for quad won't be past 2.4 in Nehalem-based laptop chips for anything as thin as the MBP... and it seems like such a tiny leap to go from a 2.4 Core2 to a 2.4 i7 even if it's got HTT.. -.- Hopefully they'll clock them higher, but I doubt it. We've been pretty much stuck with 2.4 GHz as bottom/midrange for three years...



He's not really wrong. Die shrinks mean less material per chip, more chips per wafer, ergo less expense per wafer and less expense for the company. Granted it's not just a fab switch but he's not totally off-base.

Actually die shrink does affect processor speed since the distance an electrical signal has to travel is reduced by shrinking the die size. And these days where the clock frequency is very close to the frequency of light, reduction in die size directly corresponds to reduction in the average number of pipeline per electrical link.

[Thiol]

This is what I've been seeing, things like this.

http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13566&Itemid=35

???

I think that this article is saying that they might be able to make low power usage versions of Arrandale (for really small laptops), but that they are not sure these versions will be faster than 1.6 GHz. The ultra low voltage version that they mention uses only 10 W TDP. The mainstream version with higher clock speeds will use 35 TDP, I think.

[bbadalucco]

I think that this article is saying that they might be able to make low power usage versions of Arrandale (for really small laptops), but that they are not sure these versions will be faster than 1.6 GHz. The ultra low voltage version that they mention uses only 10 W TDP. The mainstream version with higher clock speeds will use 35 TDP, I think.

Boom, thanks for the clarification!

[spaceballl]

For those wondering about the next chip coming out vs. Arrandale, here's an interesting article: Retailers Taking Orders for Laptops with Core i7 Chips (http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/165597/retailers_taking_orders_for_laptops_with_core_i7_chips.html)

Here are two interesting snippets:

Retailers are now taking orders for what could easily be the world's fastest laptops, powered by Intel's speedy Core i7 desktop processors. . . . The laptops will come with 17-inch screens and are intended to be desktop replacement PCs. The machines don't skimp on features and include a full array of components one would find in Core i7 desktop systems, according to laptop specifications on the retailers' Web sites. AVADirect, in particular, decided not to wait to bring the Core i7 hardware to consumers in a portable form.

And then...

Intel later this year intends to introduce new chips for desktops and laptops. The chips, code-named Arrandale, will be dual-core and start shipping in the fourth quarter this year, with laptops becoming available in early 2010. Arrandale chips are expected to be faster than existing Core 2 Duo chips and consume less power. However, laptops with Arrandale chips may not match the speeds of Core i7 laptops, considering the chips will be dual-core and built to draw limited amounts of power.

[ThomasJL]

I'll buy a new laptop when quad core comes out. Until then, I think my Penryn chips would handle most of what I need easily.

I'm in the same boat. I'm waiting for 32nm quad core.

[J DILLA]

whats your thoughts on the situation now bro??

[spaceballl]

whats your thoughts on the situation now bro??
Did the situation change? Are you talking about Apple's newly updated laptops? They look great! Love the new pricing, but the CPU... it's the same. the graphics... they're the same... so while a lot has change, not much has changed.

[J DILLA]

Did the situation change? Are you talking about Apple's newly updated laptops? They look great! Love the new pricing, but the CPU... it's the same. the graphics... they're the same... so while a lot has change, not much has changed.
yea in reference to the new laptops...

i'm starting to think if it would even be worth it to wait for the quad cores if we know that first generation apple products tend to have problems... with the setup they have right now, they are pretty much stable and good to go..

[Eric S.]

Did the situation change? Are you talking about Apple's newly updated laptops? They look great! Love the new pricing, but the CPU... it's the same. the graphics... they're the same... so while a lot has change, not much has changed.

Agreed, and I'm still waiting for Arrandale, and probably beyond, before thinking about making a switch.

[J DILLA]

Agreed, and I'm still waiting for Arrandale, and probably beyond, before thinking about making a switch.
easy for u mr aluminum macbook.. im on my june '05 powerbook...

[Eric S.]

easy for u mr aluminum macbook.. im on my june '05 powerbook...

Well if I were in your position I'd be upgrading now. ;)

And I'd be sure to upgrade before Snow Leopard comes out, because I'd want to have Leopard as a fallback option.

[J DILLA]

Well if I were in your position I'd be upgrading now. ;)

And I'd be sure to upgrade before Snow Leopard comes out, because I'd want to have Leopard as a fallback option.
upgrade now because the quad cores wont be coming out for another year?

how come upgrade before snow leopard?

[Eric S.]

upgrade now because the quad cores wont be coming out for another year?

Upgrade now because the new products have so much more performance than your current system. If you look for a reason to wait you can always find one; there's always something better coming around the corner. So I try to upgrade every couple of years, or else every couple of technology generations.

how come upgrade before snow leopard?

Generally major new OS versions take a couple of minor updates before becoming really stable. If you buy a Mac after Snow Leopard is released it might not support running Leopard, so you could be stuck with an unstable system for months. I think it's better to get Leopard and wait until 10.6.2 before moving to SL.

[Thiol]

Generally major new OS versions take a couple of minor updates before becoming really stable. If you buy a Mac after Snow Leopard is released it might not support running Leopard, so you could be stuck with an unstable system for months. I think it's better to get Leopard and wait until 10.6.2 before moving to SL.

To be fair Leopard was fairly smooth. I had it since day one and had no issues...

[J DILLA]

Generally major new OS versions take a couple of minor updates before becoming really stable. If you buy a Mac after Snow Leopard is released it might not support running Leopard, so you could be stuck with an unstable system for months. I think it's better to get Leopard and wait until 10.6.2 before moving to SL.

i dunno.. i really doubt the new macs wouldnt be able to run leopard just because snow leopard is released..

[Captain Magic]

One thing that's not very clear to me is the release date of Arrandale processors... do they have a precise release date or not? Q4 '09...

[applecultvictim]

One thing that's not very clear to me is the release date of Arrandale processors... do they have a precise release date or not? Q4 '09...

They don't have a precise date and intel has become all of a sudden very hush hush and has changed the gameplan...let's see...:apple:

[Eric S.]

i dunno.. i really doubt the new macs wouldnt be able to run leopard just because snow leopard is released..

Sure, the ones that are out now will continue to run Leopard, but what happens when SL is released and then Macbooks get a spec bump? Quite possibly those new models will not run Leopard. That's why if I were planning to upgrade soon, I would do it now to be sure of getting a Leopard-capable system.

[J DILLA]

Sure, the ones that are out now will continue to run Leopard, but what happens when SL is released and then Macbooks get a spec bump? Quite possibly those new models will not run Leopard. That's why if I were planning to upgrade soon, I would do it now to be sure of getting a Leopard-capable system.

why wouldn't the new ones be backwards compatible? :confused:

[relativist]

Upgrade now because the new products have so much more performance than your current system. If you look for a reason to wait you can always find one; there's always something better coming around the corner. So I try to upgrade every couple of years, or else every couple of technology generations.

Exactly what this thread is about, waiting for the next technology generation, that is just about here. If someone has an older machine and can get by for another year, then it's worth it to wait IMO. Skipping a tech generation is something I've done for a long time, saves me money for sure, and I don't always need to be on the cutting edge, but once in a while I am.

A new intel architecture does is not always in the works, that makes this reason a bit different than most.

[Eric S.]

why wouldn't the new ones be backwards compatible? :confused:

Because depending on the changes that were made, they quite likely need updated drivers that aren't in earlier OS versions.

For example, 10.5.7 is, I believe, build 9J61. The new systems just released probably have a special build just for them (does anyone know the build number?). So they won't run "standard" 10.5.7 or anything earlier, and they won't get merged back into the main OS train until 10.5.8.

Similarly if a new model comes out after 10.6.x, it won't run any earlier OS version including any version of 10.5.

Edit: Apparently the build number for the new systems is 9J3050.

[indiecraig]

I am also waiting for Arrandale, along with a few other things:

A GPU better than the 9600M
Integrated 3G modem
High Resolution Display (1680x1050)
USB 3.0 (USB 2.0 has been with us for nearly a decade, so I figure it's worth waiting for)
For Apple to decide one way or another on the future of optical media in their notebooks. By this I mean they should either offer a Blu-Ray drive option, or a pro option without an optical drive, or both.


I also would like to wait until there is an affordable way to get a 256GB SSD and 8GB of RAM so that I can get the biggest performance boost possible when I upgrade, but if I see all of the above first I'll just upgrade the drive and RAM when the prices drop.

[Dwalls90]

Apple is definitely pushing Intel to rush out Arrandale. If we know anything, it's that Intel and Apple are more notorious in bed with eachother than any other major technology partnership at this time. Originally the time table for Arrandale was Q4 '09 - Q1 '10. However, all of a sudden Intel has been very quiet about it's progress.

That said, it will either make it just in time for the new school year and holidays (around September, with Snow Leopard's release - Gee, what a coincidence?!), or we won't see it until Middle of Q1 '10.

I, myself, won't be buying until Arrandale. The unibody MBP's are beautiful - but the internals haven't changed enough to warrant my buying on. I love my Blackbook at the moment.

[spaceballl]

Apple is definitely pushing Intel to rush out Arrandale. If we know anything, it's that Intel and Apple are more notorious in bed with eachother than any other major technology partnership at this time. Originally the time table for Arrandale was Q4 '09 - Q1 '10. However, all of a sudden Intel has been very quiet about it's progress.

That said, it will either make it just in time for the new school year and holidays (around September, with Snow Leopard's release - Gee, what a coincidence?!), or we won't see it until Middle of Q1 '10.
Where are you getting this info?

[Dwalls90]

Where are you getting this info?

What info? Tons of articles have noted that Intel was scheduled for a Q4 '09 - Q1 '10 release. We ALL know that based on past Apple product releases, Intel has always given Apple priority. Remember with Core Duo? What about Nehalem? Intel gave Apple chips before they were even released on the market - let alone to other vendors (*cough* Dell *cough*). Again, there are tons of articles on this subject as well.

My estimation was based purely on past Intel and Apple relations and actions. Q4 '09 would be just before Intel's official release of Arrandale, just in time for the holidays and back-to-school time. Plus, this is always when Apple refreshes the majority of their computer line, in between September and December. With Snow Leopard coming out, what better time to push out 10.6 than selling it on new computers?

[t0mat0]

Where are you getting this info?

And doesn't Intel have to squeeze Clarksfield in first, prior to Arrandale anyhow?

[Eric S.]

Apple is definitely pushing Intel to rush out Arrandale.

How do you know that?

If we know anything, it's that Intel and Apple are more notorious in bed with eachother than any other major technology partnership at this time. Originally the time table for Arrandale was Q4 '09 - Q1 '10. However, all of a sudden Intel has been very quiet about it's progress.

Intel is partner with a lot of companies. If they have gotten quiet it could mean any number of things, including that there could be a schedule slippage.

That said, it will either make it just in time for the new school year and holidays (around September, with Snow Leopard's release - Gee, what a coincidence?!), or we won't see it until Middle of Q1 '10.

Do you have a source for this?

Edit: I see others beat me to these questions, but one other comment: Apple isn't the only company that gets Intel processors before they're on the market. For example my company does, and I'm sure several others do also.

[J DILLA]

I would like to think dwalls90 is right.. it does make sense that they would release the new computers in september or shortly after. the ones that just came out were more of a refresh than an update.. nothing significantly new was added to them. seems like apple is trying to get the most out of the core 2 duos before they release the new quads.

[spaceballl]

And doesn't Intel have to squeeze Clarksfield in first, prior to Arrandale anyhow?
Yes.
If we know anything, it's that Intel and Apple are more notorious in bed with eachother than any other major technology partnership at this time.
That sentence just doesn't really make any sense ;)

[chrmjenkins]

I just took a look at what info is on wikipedia right now, and it's really a mired situation. Conflicting reports say Clarksfield will launch either 35W TDP or 45/55W. Obviously, the latter precludes it from being in anything in the 17 inch, which means it won't be in any of them. If it is only 35W, does Apple jump on it, or wait it out until Arrandale?

As for Arrandale, I would think the major advantage at that time (Snow Leopard is out), is the multiple cores being taken advantage of by the OS. For those who are interested in Arrandale, does it matter to you that you are only looking at dual core solutions still (although they have returned to hyperthreading)?

The reason I ask is because according to wikipedia, Nehalem is only given a one year lifepsan for the mobile sector. Sandy Bridge will be hot on its heels with power sensible quad core solutions. Does this matter to any of you who are willing to wait?

I'm also curious what will happen with the die integrated GPU for systems with an nvidia platform. Will it go completely unused?

[t0mat0]

Exactly what this thread is about, waiting for the next technology generation, that is just about here. If someone has an older machine and can get by for another year, then it's worth it to wait IMO. Skipping a tech generation is something I've done for a long time, saves me money for sure, and I don't always need to be on the cutting edge, but once in a while I am.

A new intel architecture does is not always in the works, that makes this reason a bit different than most.

side effect of the tick tock strategy - can make a 2 year Mac update strategy worthwhile, which meanse there are peopole waiting a while, so are looking 1- 1/2 years ahead at times.

[knucles]

any change of oled display with the future Q1 2010 macbook pro's?

1. i hate glossy
2. 2gb ram notebook nowadays, apple really?
3. Better gpu , nvidia 150/130m or ati?
4. I really need a new macbook pro but i am not buying glossy+9600m.....

[spaceballl]

Does this matter to any of you who are willing to wait?
chrmjenkins, the origin of this thread stems from the fact that Intel hasn't really updated its CPU lineup in a long time. For example, I bought the last NON-unibody Macbook Pro 15". Do I wish I had a unibody? Yes. However, these unibody macbook pros use the same CPU as mine does! The Intel Core 2 Duo Penryn. So in terms of CPU performance, there really hasn't been a huge advancement since I bought my laptop well over a year ago! Arrandale is the first major step up over Penryn :D. Hence the thread topic... "I'm waiting for Arrandale" :D:D

Believe me... it has been TOUGH to hold out and not get one of these new unibodies... man... they look nice. But I'm waiting for Arrandale!

[Apple Corps]

My 2.33 Core 2 Duo is going on THREE years old - it has been and remains an outstanding performer.

I was thinking Intel has really been on an upgrade streak - but as I think about your observation - not much offered lately.

Continuing to wait for a significant processor upgrade - Arrandale - TBD ;)

Arrandale + SL + whatever else should provide quite the upgrade for me when the time comes.

[t0mat0]

What info? Tons of articles have noted that Intel was scheduled for a Q4 '09 - Q1 '10 release. We ALL know that based on past Apple product releases, Intel has always given Apple priority. Remember with Core Duo? What about Nehalem? Intel gave Apple chips before they were even released on the market - let alone to other vendors (*cough* Dell *cough*). Again, there are tons of articles on this subject as well.

My estimation was based purely on past Intel and Apple relations and actions. Q4 '09 would be just before Intel's official release of Arrandale, just in time for the holidays and back-to-school time. Plus, this is always when Apple refreshes the majority of their computer line, in between September and December. With Snow Leopard coming out, what better time to push out 10.6 than selling it on new computers?

And put Arrandale in what?
Update the MacBooks only 3 months after the recent update? The MacBooks would be about 100 days into their pretty constant 200 day cycle. It seems to make much more sense to wait till Feb 2010 to update the MacBooks, after giving them their normal 8 months.

Wouldn't September be more about
- Snow Leopard
- iPods refreshes (which will be a biggie)
- Tablet
- ACDs

Sounds like a decent enough line up for Jobs to do?

Maybe i'm reading it wrong, wouldn't the iMac be a more likely target than the MacBooks for an update with Arrandale?

They would be pushing 10.6 onto fairly new computers - 3 month old new MacBooks (MB, MBP, MBA).

[Quu]

I have to say if I was waiting for Arrandale right now I'd be kinda pissed with being forced in to an SD Slot.

Glad I bought now instead of waiting for Apple to screw up a good foundation for the new Chips to go in to.

[mldav5]

And put Arrandale in what?
Update the MacBooks only 3 months after the recent update? The MacBooks would be about 100 days into their pretty constant 200 day cycle. It seems to make much more sense to wait till Feb 2010 to update the MacBooks, after giving them their normal 8 months.

Wouldn't September be more about
- Snow Leopard
- iPods refreshes (which will be a biggie)
- Tablet
- ACDs

Sounds like a decent enough line up for Jobs to do?

Maybe i'm reading it wrong, wouldn't the iMac be a more likely target than the MacBooks for an update with Arrandale?

They would be pushing 10.6 onto fairly new computers - 3 month old new MacBooks (MB, MBP, MBA).

I agree. Apple always upgrade iPods before Christmas. They will do SL in September, iPod's in October/November and maybe iMac around then too. They are likely to upgrade Macbook Pros in January or February and the release completely new products later in the year at the big events. Frankly, I'm happy to wait for Arrandale when ever it comes, in the next few months, or in the next six.

[PaperMacWriter]

I was planning on waiting for Arrandale, but I decided since its my first computer of my own, and I really could use it sooner, I got the new 13" MBP. All the new features benifit me, a consumer, so I am thrilled. But If I had a computer before, I would have waited.
SG :apple:

[Joruus]

Still rocking my 6 year old 12" PowerBook G4.. won't upgrade to this mess that is Intel 13" until they include better GPU's than what i have, lol.

[Santabean2000]

Still rocking my 6 year old 12" PowerBook G4.. won't upgrade to this mess that is Intel 13" until they include better GPU's than what i have, lol.

Aye the 12" was a beauty. Am hanging out for the Arrandale 13" MBP, dual HD/SDD, (no optical drive!), with SATA II too!:cool:

[Joruus]

waiting till they include some decent GFX, unless they offer something with 200+ gflops in the 13" i'll wait till my PB breaks apart :(

[Captain Magic]

And put Arrandale in what?
Update the MacBooks only 3 months after the recent update? The MacBooks would be about 100 days into their pretty constant 200 day cycle. It seems to make much more sense to wait till Feb 2010 to update the MacBooks, after giving them their normal 8 months.

Didn't Apple update the Macbook range last september with the new alloys?

[Iphone3gs]

The quesitons is:

when is most likely next macbook pro to be realeased?


Model Early 2006[3] Late 2006[12] Mid 2007[13] Late 2007[14] Early 2008[15] White
(Late 2008)[16] White
(Early 2009)[5] MacBook
(Mid 2009)
Release date
May 16, 2006 November 8, 2006 May 15, 2007 November 1, 2007 February 26, 2008 October 14, 2008 January 21, 2009 May 27, 2009


Looking at the above data for white macbook: it seems that they are updated twice yearly.

So can we expect another update just before chrismas (oct/november) time. Very very likely.

But when will their be a significant speed boost with the new chips?

source from wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macbook

[t0mat0]

The quesitons is:

when is most likely next macbook pro to be realeased?


Model Early 2006[3] Late 2006[12] Mid 2007[13] Late 2007[14] Early 2008[15] White
(Late 2008)[16] White
(Early 2009)[5] MacBook
(Mid 2009)
Release date
May 16, 2006 November 8, 2006 May 15, 2007 November 1, 2007 February 26, 2008 October 14, 2008 January 21, 2009 May 27, 2009


Looking at the above data for white macbook: it seems that they are updated twice yearly.

So can we expect another update just before chrismas (oct/november) time. Very very likely.

But when will their be a significant speed boost with the new chips?

source from wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macbook

Are you using the McBook wiki link, not the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro ?

[Iphone3gs]

Are you using the McBook wiki link, not the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro ?

should have used the link which you have provided macbook pro but thought that as the new macbook pro 13" was named macbook before thought ill use the macbook wiki link both are very similar and show similar trends regarding ho often they get updated.

I think most people will be holiding and waiting for the new processor Arrandale chip which will come some time next year to buy the next version of the macbooks which will be a significant speed boost.

But their will alwayz big a speed bosst every update. As others have said when you need it buy it then no point waiting unless you know its going to be updated in the next few weeks/ or a month or 2 more then a year 6 months to wait i would advise buy now.

[w00t951]

Well, I am just irritated. I bought my Macbook Pro as soon as the Unibody update arrived, but then, just 3 months later, the new Arrandale processors are announced. In my experience, I found that Apple did not update their product lines much, but then as soon as the iPod Touch and the iPhone came out, they've been overhauling their entire line of products.

[Apple Corps]

Well, I am just irritated. I bought my Macbook Pro as soon as the Unibody update arrived, but then, just 3 months later, the new Arrandale processors are announced. In my experience, I found that Apple did not update their product lines much, but then as soon as the iPod Touch and the iPhone came out, they've been overhauling their entire line of products.

What in the world are you irritated about? You purchased Apple's latest at the time and a chip supplier ANNOUNCES a new chip - they are not in production yet and may not even release until early 2010.

[dudeitsjay]

So I'm holding off for the new chip too.. Whats the general consensus on a oct/september release vs a february release?

[applecultvictim]

So I'm holding off for the new chip too.. Whats the general consensus on a oct/september release vs a february release?

Feb release 99%.

[vxmqzz]

I am quite happy with my 15 mbp santa rosa 2.2 GHZ, my only complain is that the battery seems to have some problem.( maybe b/c I've always connected it to a power supply and now the battery counldn't last very long.)

I will definitely upgrade next Feb if a new generation cpu is out.

[masamune]

I´m buying my first Mac. I think I will wait until SL is out and I´m hoping they will release Arrandale by that time too. Although February is more like it

[Tallest Skil]

any change of oled display with the future Q1 2010 macbook pro's?

1. i hate glossy
2. 2gb ram notebook nowadays, apple really?
3. Better gpu , nvidia 150/130m or ati?
4. I really need a new macbook pro but i am not buying glossy+9600m.....

1. OLED has absolutely nothing to do with glossy.
2. So what?
3. Somehow I doubt it, seeing as they kept the last two GPUs for over a year each.
4. Okay, then don't buy anything. You won't be buying a new machine for a LONG time unless you get a matte 17"; they're not changing from glossy for a while, if ever.

[MacBoobsPro]

I´m buying my first Mac. I think I will wait until SL is out and I´m hoping they will release Arrandale by that time too. Although February is more like it

If you buy a mac now you can upgrade to SL for 9.95.

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/campaigns/popup/utd_sl?mco=NjcxMTUyOA

[ekwipt]

Feb release 99%.

Intel are still on schedule for a Q4 09 release, Apple have been paying Intel for first in upgrades, that would mean this year then

[Tallest Skil]

Intel are still on schedule for a Q4 09 release, Apple have been paying Intel for first in upgrades, that would mean this year then

They've done that twice... and only for the Mac Pro. :confused:

What does it have to do with laptops? Apple was MONTHS behind the Penryn release.

[iMacmatician]

If we go by patterns:

MacBook Pro:Early 2006 Late 2006
Mid 2007
Early 2008 Late 2008
Mid 2009
Early 2010?

MacBook: Mid 2006 Late 2006
Mid 2007 (Late 2007)
Early 2008 Late 2008
Mid 2009 Late 2009? or
Early 2010?

[Dwalls90]

And put Arrandale in what?
Update the MacBooks only 3 months after the recent update? The MacBooks would be about 100 days into their pretty constant 200 day cycle. It seems to make much more sense to wait till Feb 2010 to update the MacBooks, after giving them their normal 8 months.

Wouldn't September be more about
- Snow Leopard
- iPods refreshes (which will be a biggie)
- Tablet
- ACDs

Sounds like a decent enough line up for Jobs to do?

Maybe i'm reading it wrong, wouldn't the iMac be a more likely target than the MacBooks for an update with Arrandale?

They would be pushing 10.6 onto fairly new computers - 3 month old new MacBooks (MB, MBP, MBA).

Say what you want, but Apple will not release a new line up with processors that have been sitting on the market for a while (is my speculation). They can't afford to be behind the competition for long in such an economy. That said, whenever Arrandale is released, is when we'll see a new lineup of MB/MBP's

[Tallest Skil]

Say what you want, but Apple will not release a new line up with processors that have been sitting on the market for a while (is my speculation).

Penryn. Speculation debunked.

They can't afford to be behind the competition for long in such an economy.

$1 billion+ profit per quarter says otherwise.

[Dwalls90]

Penryn. Speculation debunked.

You think they would switch CPU's three times within 12 months?



$1 billion+ profit per quarter says otherwise.

How about the fact that to this date, they have been using the latest technology in their laptops - hence my theory? You just supported my theory.

[Tallest Skil]

You think they would switch CPU's three times within 12 months?

Yes.


How about the fact that to this date, they have been using the latest technology in their laptops - hence my theory? You just supported my theory.

They were five months behind with a Penryn CPU release. They use 9xxx series GPUs when 1xxM and 2xxM have been out for a while. They don't use OLED screens, they don't use webcams with resolutions greater than 1.3MP, the sensor in the webcam isn't the best available, they DOWNGRADED THE HARD DRIVE INTERFACE, they're not using the better FireWire chipset that has been around for YEARS, and they don't have Cat7 Ethernet.

Need I say more?

"Latest technology" my foot.

[Dwalls90]

Yes.




They were five months behind with a Penryn CPU release. They use 9xxx series GPUs when 1xxM and 2xxM have been out for a while. They don't use OLED screens, they don't use webcams with resolutions greater than 1.3MP, the sensor in the webcam isn't the best available, they DOWNGRADED THE HARD DRIVE INTERFACE, they're not using the better FireWire chipset that has been around for YEARS, and they don't have Cat7 Ethernet.

Need I say more?

"Latest technology" my foot.

Why do you use a Mac then?

OLED is not widespread yet, I guess I should rephrase that, "latest technology within reasonable pricing that the general consumer will benefit from". I think the downgrading of the Hard drive transfer rate was clearly a mistake and will be amended sooner rather than later. And they do use 120 GT and 130 GT M GPU's, just not in their notebook line. For the record, the 130 GT M IS the 9600 GT M (do some research).
Who cares about the webcams? They serve the purpose of providing clear video chat and basic photo snapshots for fun, and from my experience with various PC notebooks, they are higher quality. No one is going to rely on a webcam for fine photography.

[Tallest Skil]

Why do you use a Mac then?

Because I don't HAVE to have the "latest technology" to understand that the platform is superior in several respects to other offerings.

I guess I should rephrase that, "latest technology within reasonable pricing that the general consumer will benefit from".

All right, then. The webcam points and GPU point still stand.

And they do use 120 GT and 130 GT M GPU's, just not in their notebook line.

Quoting you:

How about the fact that to this date, they have been using the latest technology in their laptops

Hence, the desktop offerings have nothing to do with it.

For the record, the 130 GT M IS the 9600 GT M (do some research).

Yes, I know.

... and?

Who cares about the webcams?

Consumers, as you said:

I guess I should rephrase that, "latest technology within reasonable pricing that the general consumer will benefit from".

They serve the purpose of providing clear video chat and basic photo snapshots for fun, and from my experience with various PC notebooks, they are higher quality. No one is going to rely on a webcam for fine photography.

It's difficult to have a discussion with you when you keep shifting your focus from consumers to professionals. Let's just go back to the stuff that I listed originally and drop the discrepancies.

[aleksandra.]

(...) They don't use OLED screens (...)


They don't use silver-zinc batteries either. Or 256GB 1.8" SSDs. Or anything that isn't available yet, for that matter ;).

Closer to the topic: it makes more sense for Apple to refresh their laptops to the latest C2D just before Arrandale launches and see what happens with Intel vs nVidia legal battle. I really think Apple won't like increased TDPs - they have been making their laptops thinner and more power-efficient lately. Imagine reading on Apple's website "Now only 0.2x graphics performance compared to previous generation. And a full hour of battery life less." ;). If they could afford to delay Penryn in MBP for months, they surely can afford to delay Arrandale.

[Dwalls90]

Because I don't HAVE to have the "latest technology" to understand that the platform is superior in several respects to other offerings.



All right, then. The webcam points and GPU point still stand.

I agree with you on that, however the webcam really isn't a big selling point. As already said, the GPU is the same. Who cares if it wears a different badge? That's like renaming the Mac Pro the Mac Super Pro - it's still the same machine.




It's difficult to have a discussion with you when you keep shifting your focus from consumers to professionals. Let's just go back to the stuff that I listed originally and drop the discrepancies.

I never shifted to professionals? The MBP is NOT for professionals, if you're a professional, you'll be using a Mac Pro. For many professionals, a notebook cannot meet their needs.

[iMacmatician]

Closer to the topic: it makes more sense for Apple to refresh their laptops to the latest C2D just before Arrandale launches and see what happens with Intel vs nVidia legal battle. I really think Apple won't like increased TDPs - they have been making their laptops thinner and more power-efficient lately. Imagine reading on Apple's website "Now only 0.2x graphics performance compared to previous generation. And a full hour of battery life less." ;). If they could afford to delay Penryn in MBP for months, they surely can afford to delay Arrandale.Nehalem doesn't have increased TDPs.

[Ironduke]

I think intel should consider a Lower price 2Ghz Quad Core, even a 1.8Ghz especially if grand Central turns out to be all that.

[iMacmatician]

I think intel should consider a Lower price 2Ghz Quad Core, even a 1.8Ghz especially if grand Central turns out to be all that.Clarksfield clock speeds are 1.6/1.73/2.0 GHz, however the prices haven't really gone down (except for the 1.73 GHz) and TDPs may not have decreased.

[OddHead]

I think Apple will step directly to Arrandale. Better clocks, and even better TDPs. Maybe we'll see 4-core CPUs in the 17" model...

[Tallest Skil]

I think Apple will step directly to Arrandale. Better clocks, and even better TDPs. Maybe we'll see 4-core CPUs in the 17" model...

Except there are no quad-core Arrandale processors.

[chrmjenkins]

Except there are no quad-core Arrandale processors.

Don't let silly things like official roadmaps get in the way of your dreams.

[t0mat0]

Except there are no quad-core Arrandale processors.

...yet? Didn't you say the MacBooks wouldn't get refreshed at WWDC? ;) Or the predictions for the Nehalem chips for the Mac Pro?

[iMacmatician]

...yet? Didn't you say the MacBooks wouldn't get refreshed at WWDC? ;) Or the predictions for the Nehalem chips for the Mac Pro?There are no quad-core Arrandale CPUs anywhere in Intel's roadmap or from rumor/insider sites. Arrandale was first known almost a year before its planned release and before Intel mentioned it. I think it's quite unlikely that a quad-core Arrandale has been unknown for so long.

Now, Clarksfield is rumored to go 32 nm in mid-2010, but that's another CPU. ;)

[consand]

Hi,
I am not trying to start a war but these are the reasons I am not waiting.

1. The only laptop I own is a net book with 7+ hrs battery. The new MBP have 7hr battery which is great.

2. The MBP 13 2.26GZ + 4GB Crucial RAM + 500GB WD HDD is < AUD$2000
The cheapest they have ever been!

C2D
When: NOW
Battery: 7hrs
TDP: 25W
Graphics: nvidia 9400M and optional 9600M GT
Graphics Cores: 16 + optional 32
Memory: DDR3 1066
Memory controller: chipset
Clock speeds: 2.26 to 2.8

Arrendale
When: Sep09 (snow leopard) or Dec09 (Christmas) or 2010
Battery: 7hrs
TDP: 18W/25W/35W
Graphics: integrated Intel and optional Nvidia 2xxM
Graphics Cores: 16/32 + optional 48-128
Memory: DDR3 1066
Memory controller: on chip not on die
Clock speeds: about the same as C2D

Processor:
C2D is a bit old now but there is not much advantage going to Arrendale. The memory controller has moved to the processor but is not in the die. The memory improvement will not be as great as the i7 over the C2D. The added instructions are not going to be very beneficial unless you use encryption. The one big benefit is HYPERTHREADING. The benefit from hyper threading could be huge with grand central or other applications that use lots of threads but not many CPU cycles. This will improve every day tasks not CPU crunching.

Graphics:
The newly released Nvidia M chips look amazing. OpenCL enabled programs in snow leopard will fly! With Arrendale you will lose the integrated Nvidia processor and get an Intel one. This could be a big disadvantage to the integrated graphics only MBPs.

Sandy Bridge (2011):
Desktops:
C2D -> (1 step) -> i7 (1 step) -> Sandy Bridge
Mobile:
C2D -> (0.5 step) -> Arrendale (1.5 step) -> Sandy Bridge
It is not until Sandy Bridge we see quad cores and memory controller and graphics on die. These are where the big performance increases will be.

My Recommendation:

MBP without integrated graphics:
BUY NOW then skip Arrendale and get Sandy Bridge in 2011

MBP with integrated graphics:
Wait for the new Nvidia chips and Arrendale, but you will still want to upgrade to Sandy Bridge.

Regards,
Consand

[danthespaceman]

I thought I was the only one crazy enough to wait 8 months for 'the next macbook pro'. This thread proved me wrong.

I have a few questions.

1. Will Grand Central in snow leopard take advantage of the Arrandale more than it would today's current macbook processor?

2. What programs do you see making the most of an Arrandale/Snow Leopard combo?

3. Is battery life likely to improve with the new Arrandale processor? Is it possible that we could see battery life extend beyond eight hours?

[nuckinfutz]

Pretty good recommendation Consand.


I thought I was the only one crazy enough to wait 8 months for 'the next macbook pro'. This thread proved me wrong.

I have a few questions.

1. Will Grand Central in snow leopard take advantage of the Arrandale more than it would today's current macbook processor?

2. What programs do you see making the most of an Arrandale/Snow Leopard combo?

3. Is battery life likely to improve with the new Arrandale processor? Is it possible that we could see battery life extend beyond eight hours?

1. Yes but that's because Arrandale has 4 threads which GCD can leverage like 4 processors.

2 Any app that is threaded using Leopards concurrency tools or Snow Leopards concurrency tools. In a year I'd guess that %25 of all apps will be leveraging concurrency in their design.

3. Probably depending on how sophisticated Arrandales power modes are.

[chrmjenkins]

consand: Arrandale is a much better performer clock-for-clock than a C2D. To dismiss them solely on the basis of clock speed (and ignore the fact they can run 4 threads) is not representing the situation accurately.

[Eric S.]

consand: Arrandale is a much better performer clock-for-clock than a C2D. To dismiss them solely on the basis of clock speed (and ignore the fact they can run 4 threads) is not representing the situation accurately.

I don't think he was dismissing them; he said hyperthreading is a big benefit.

[J DILLA]

so this whole time i was under the impression that arrandale was quad core... i guess i didn't read closely enough :p so if they are dual core, why is arrandale better than the current processors which are dual core as well?

[Anonymous Freak]

...and they don't have Cat7 Ethernet.

I hope this part is a joke...

Considering the fact that 10 Gb Ethernet runs over Cat 6a, and Gigabit can run over Cat 5; not to mention the confusion of the cabling with the Ethernet standard...

Why don't we just ask for Cat 7a and 100 Gb Ethernet in our new MacBooks?

[iMacmatician]

TDP: 18W/25W/35WExpanding on this point, the 18 W is the successor to the ULV, the 25 W is the successor to the LV, and the 35 W is the successor to the 25 W Penryns. It is unclear if the 35 W Penryns (2.8/3.07 GHz) will have a direct (45 W) Arrandale successor, I'm not sure what that means in terms of high-end/high-clocked Arrandales.

Graphics:
The newly released Nvidia M chips look amazing. OpenCL enabled programs in snow leopard will fly! With Arrendale you will lose the integrated Nvidia processor and get an Intel one. This could be a big disadvantage to the integrated graphics only MBPs. The Arrandale integrated GPU is supposedly 2x as powerful as the preceding integrated GPU, however, that would still be behind NVIDIA integrated GPUs. Not to mention any upcoming ones (40 nm iGT209).

It is not until Sandy Bridge we see quad cores and memory controller and graphics on die. These are where the big performance increases will be.Low-end Sandy Bridges will still be dual-core, at least based on roadmaps.

consand: Arrandale is a much better performer clock-for-clock than a C2D. To dismiss them solely on the basis of clock speed (and ignore the fact they can run 4 threads) is not representing the situation accurately.This (http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13387&Itemid=35) may be interesting to those thinking about Arrandale:

Core Temp and CPU-Z are naturally not recognizing this CPU but GPU-Z reports an integrated graphics circuit with 32MB of RAM. In the end, it took Clarkdale 18.125 seconds to complete a SuperPi 1M test, which is about 10% better than Core 2 processors at same clocks.The particular CPU is 2.4 GHz but it's Clarkdale (the desktop version of Arrandale).

[aleksandra.]

Nehalem doesn't have increased TDPs.

I meant Arrandale's total TDP, with Intel integrated graphics. Although removing nVidia's graphics will balance it, next generation one will use less power, which would have meant more power-efficiency overall, if it wasn't for Intel's bundling their graphics with CPU. Is it even going to support OpenCL at some point?

[iMacmatician]

I meant Arrandale's total TDP, with Intel integrated graphics. TDP values quoted for Havendale/Auburndale/Clarkdale/Arrandale include the integrated GPU.

[DAMNiatx]

come come arrandale :p

[cni2i]

I am new to Macs, so I am not going to pretend that I know much about what everyone is currently discussing. But, as another member mentioned...there's always something newer, better, faster just right around the corner. If you are worried about getting a new MBP now just b/c Arrandale is coming out...well, then when Arrandale comes out...everyone will be talking about Sandy Bridge or the next and greatest thing. Unless you have loads of $$$ to update every time some new comes out, you'll never really win in the waiting game IMO. So if you want or need a new mac now, just buy it and enjoy the heck out of it. In a few years, upgrade to the next and greatest thing. Arrandale may seem somewhat dated by then. ;)

Besides, mac prices are pretty good right now, especially if you are a student/educator.

[Joruus]

Can't talk for anyone else, but. I would NEVER buy something when its at the end of its product cycle, like what you can buy now. Its been 3 Years since the C2D got introduced.

[cni2i]

Can't talk for anyone else, but. I would NEVER buy something when its at the end of its product cycle, like what you can buy now. Its been 3 Years since the C2D got introduced.

You have a good point.
But:
1. I think that's part of the reason that mac prices have dropped a bit. So if price is a big concern, then I still think that it's a good time to buy. The "new" macs with the new processor will probably cost more. I may be wrong!?!?
2. Some may argue that it's good to get something that is tried and true...versus something that is brand new and not yet been put through the test....bugs?

[mason.kramer]

I am stoked for the new li-poly batteries in the 13" and 15" products. This is exactly what I was hoping to see in this spring's update.

For all of you people waiting for Arrandale to come out in the fall, it is Not Going To Happen. Clarksfield will come out in Q4 2009 and go into the next iMac update. Arrandale will come out in Q1 2010 and go into the whole Macbook line. Preferably with an affordable SSD option. That will be the computer to get.

[Joruus]

As a added bonus, Arrandale MBP's will probably have FireWire 3200, USB 3.0 and SATA 6 Gbit/s.

[DAMNiatx]

As a added bonus, Arrandale MBP's will probably have FireWire 3200, USB 3.0 and SATA 6 Gbit/s.

hopefully the blueray!

[Joruus]

hopefully the blueray!

Oh god please no. Get fecking rid of that useless Drive alltogether.

[mason.kramer]

hopefully the blueray!

Pssst. Blueray is stillborn. I sure wouldn't invest in that, especially because the DRM keeps you from backing it up onto a harddrive. Home media is going towards a streaming media server, which also happens to be the most convenient way to access media as well as the best way to keep it backed up and secure. iTunes store / direct 2 drive is the future, man.

originally posted by Joruus:
Arrandale MBP's will probably have FireWire 3200, USB 3.0 and SATA 6 Gbit/s.

Why do you think this? I'm curious if you have a link or if you're just being sarcastic / wantonly speculating.

[Dwalls90]

As a added bonus, Arrandale MBP's will probably have FireWire 3200, USB 3.0 and SATA 6 Gbit/s.

hopefully the blueray!

FireWire 3200 would be nice, not sure if it will be ready yet. USB 3.0 is a definite by this point I would say, I wonder if this will trump Firewire.

Sata 6 Gbit/s is probably not happening, as the current SSD can barely utilize Sata 3 Gbit/s. That said, I'm not sure myself if the transfer rate is the limiting factor (i.e. current SSD would be able to use 6 Gbit/s bandwidth), but if so, bring on Sata 6 Gbit/s.

I don't care for blu-ray.

[Genyus]

FireWire 3200 would be nice, not sure if it will be ready yet. USB 3.0 is a definite by this point I would say, I wonder if this will trump Firewire.

Sata 6 Gbit/s is probably not happening, as the current SSD can barely utilize Sata 3 Gbit/s. That said, I'm not sure myself if the transfer rate is the limiting factor (i.e. current SSD would be able to use 6 Gbit/s bandwidth), but if so, bring on Sata 6 Gbit/s.

I don't care for blu-ray.

SATA 6GB is unlikely, especially seeing as Apple downgraded their SATA interface from 3GB/s to 1.5GB/s with all but the 17" MBP with the current lineup. I don't see them suddenly jumping up to 6GB/s with the next major update.

Pssst. Blueray is stillborn. I sure wouldn't invest in that, especially because the DRM keeps you from backing it up onto a harddrive. Home media is going towards a streaming media server, which also happens to be the most convenient way to access media as well as the best way to keep it backed up and secure. iTunes store / direct 2 drive is the future, man.


Maybe it is the future, but it's still the DISTANT future for the Average Joe. Blu-Ray has a lot of mileage ahead.

[iMacmatician]

You have a good point.
But:
1. I think that's part of the reason that mac prices have dropped a bit. So if price is a big concern, then I still think that it's a good time to buy. The "new" macs with the new processor will probably cost more. I may be wrong!?!?Current Core 2 Duos are priced similarly to first-generation Core 2 Duos (and Apple hasn't used cheaper CPUs in this update).

Clarksfield will come out in Q4 2009 and go into the next iMac update.I'm not so sure about Clarksfield in the iMacs.

[Dwalls90]

Current Core 2 Duos are priced similarly to first-generation Core 2 Duos (and Apple hasn't used cheaper CPUs in this update).

I'm not so sure about Clarksfield in the iMacs.

Why not? Do you think Apple will change to the desktop counterpart of i7? That would mean Westmere if they choose to wait, or Lynnfield if they switch in the fall. I mean, the chips are using less energy and emitting less heat than ever before, so I guess being able to take advantage of higher clock rates and cache would help.

But I mean, otherwise they'll stick with Clarksfield - that is the future, Core i7, mobile platform or not.

[Joruus]

Why do you think this? I'm curious if you have a link or if you're just being sarcastic / wantonly speculating.

USB 3.0 is supposed to come very early in 2010, NEC wants to ship the first Controlers for it now.
FireWire 3200 and SATA 3.0 well, i said they might ship with these, but we will see :)

[Tallest Skil]

The "new" macs with the new processor will probably cost more. I may be wrong!?!?

Nope.

Apple did not change the base price of the 15" or 17" professional laptop from September 2003 to June 2009, and the last update LOWERED the price of both models.

I see Arrandale with the GT 230M. It fits Apple's self-imposed power draw limits (and it's a good GPU; don't complain :D).

[OasisNYK]

I think whenever you are on the verge of OS updates (SL and 7) as well as new hardware technology then it does not make sense to upgrade unless you absolutely need it. Nehalem is a totally new architecture, it is not like buying a penryn and then a month later a small speed bump is released - this is a leap forward and the desktop i7's have proved to be winners so the mobile tech should see similar gains.

I agree the pricing now is good, but to wait 6 more months for something that is truly a step forward is hardly playing the waiting game, it is being smart about investing in your tech.

[danfl2004]

I think whenever you are on the verge of OS updates (SL and 7) as well as new hardware technology then it does not make sense to upgrade unless you absolutely need it. Nehalem is a totally new architecture, it is not like buying a penryn and then a month later a small speed bump is released - this is a leap forward and the desktop i7's have proved to be winners so the mobile tech should see similar gains.

I agree the pricing now is good, but to wait 6 more months for something that is truly a step forward is hardly playing the waiting game, it is being smart about investing in your tech.


Tbh, it depends when you last upgraded. I just brought the new macbook pro and am happy to wait with it until Sandy Bridge in 2012 which imo is much more worth the wait than a 2 core 4 thread job Arrandale will offer. Although Arrandale would be nice, i cannot give myself any reason to buy a laptop in 2010 then upgrade in 2012 when bigger leaps will be made. I would perhaps wait if i was a hardcore user, but for the casual user, waiting is not worth it.

[Bubba Satori]

Oh god please no. Get fecking rid of that useless Drive alltogether.

"fecking rid" ? "Useless" ? You can't be serious.

Why do you take that attitude ? Why shouldn't a customer have the choice to get BD on their computer if they want it ? You don't have to choose that option. Unbelievably arrogant.

Is it because Apple doesn't offer it that nobody should want it ? :rolleyes:

[OasisNYK]

Tbh, it depends when you last upgraded. I just brought the new macbook pro and am happy to wait with it until Sandy Bridge in 2012 which imo is much more worth the wait than a 2 core 4 thread job Arrandale will offer. Although Arrandale would be nice, i cannot give myself any reason to buy a laptop in 2010 then upgrade in 2012 when bigger leaps will be made. I would perhaps wait if i was a hardcore user, but for the casual user, waiting is not worth it.

True...I am coming from a Pentium M 2 GHz and feel waiting 6 more months for the next jump is worth it, I like to keep my tech for 4-5 years before investing in new stuff. I also agree, if you just bought it is not worth upgrading again so soon, but I figured I have waited this long and penryn's etc are at the end of the cycle so I might as well wait for the new tech.

[Joruus]

I didn't want a Optical Drive since well, USB Sticks became Popular 10 years ago...
The only use my Optical Drive has is to burn MUSIC CD's, lol.

[nahsor]

Yeah I am in the same boat. I am ready to make my first switch to mac but I want a machine that will last me 3+ years and so waiting for Arrandale seems wise instead of buying the same architecture being used for the past 3 years. It is so tough though to hold out, having a crappy windows laptop and seeing the lowered prices :p ....must...resist...to not buy shiny new mbp....

[Joruus]

Get this one for the wait: http://cgi.ebay.com/Apple-PowerBook-G4-Titanium-12-1-5-Ghz-1-25GB-80GB_W0QQitemZ160341922459QQcmdZViewItemQQptZApple_Laptops?hash=item25551f929b&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1234%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 :P

[danfl2004]

True...I am coming from a Pentium M 2 GHz and feel waiting 6 more months for the next jump is worth it, I like to keep my tech for 4-5 years before investing in new stuff. I also agree, if you just bought it is not worth upgrading again so soon, but I figured I have waited this long and penryn's etc are at the end of the cycle so I might as well wait for the new tech.

Yeh if i was in your shoes i would wait too. As penryn will be suffering in 4 years time! I upgraded because at this moment the 13inch is everything i need and want in a mac, and thats a rare opportunity lol!

[chrmjenkins]

Nope.

Apple did not change the base price of the 15" or 17" professional laptop from September 2003 to June 2009, and the last update LOWERED the price of both models.

I see Arrandale with the GT 230M. It fits Apple's self-imposed power draw limits (and it's a good GPU; don't complain :D).

The 230M looks good since it ups the ROPs from 32 to 48. I am curious if they'll do a integrated graphics solution with the Intel CPU having its own, as the 9400M, and then the 205M and 210M (although the 210M goes from 128 bit to 64 bit memory bus from the 9400M, this is odd) still outclass it by a good margin.

[nahsor]

Get this one for the wait: http://cgi.ebay.com/Apple-PowerBook-G4-Titanium-12-1-5-Ghz-1-25GB-80GB_W0QQitemZ160341922459QQcmdZViewItemQQptZApple_Laptops?hash=item25551f929b&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1234%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 :P

Haha thanks...I might just have to impulse bid :D

[cni2i]

Tbh, it depends when you last upgraded. I just brought the new macbook pro and am happy to wait with it until Sandy Bridge in 2012 which imo is much more worth the wait than a 2 core 4 thread job Arrandale will offer. Although Arrandale would be nice, i cannot give myself any reason to buy a laptop in 2010 then upgrade in 2012 when bigger leaps will be made. I would perhaps wait if i was a hardcore user, but for the casual user, waiting is not worth it.

That is what I am planning to do. This will be my first macbook. I thought about waiting, but since I am a pretty "casual user" (internet, emailing, photos, some videos, word processing and powerpoint presentations) I honestly don't think I would even notice a differnce. I am sure more "advanced" and tech-savy users will notice a difference. Heck, I am just happy to get Snow Leopard in the Fall/Winter.

I will wait another 3-4 years before upgrading. I just have to stay away from this site so I won't have to hear all the hype and good things about Arrandale! :p:D

[iMacmatician]

Why not? Do you think Apple will change to the desktop counterpart of i7? That would mean Westmere if they choose to wait, or Lynnfield if they switch in the fall. I mean, the chips are using less energy and emitting less heat than ever before, so I guess being able to take advantage of higher clock rates and cache would help.

But I mean, otherwise they'll stick with Clarksfield - that is the future, Core i7, mobile platform or not.Arrandale. Apple appears to prefer dual-cores in the iMac.

[knucles]

i am buying now replacing my 2006 macbook pro (still pentium core duo)

skipping arrandale and buying standard macbook pro 1999$:

oled display
2ghz quad core macbook pro
nvidia 3xx
intel 256ssd

like mid 2012 ?

[Tallest Skil]

i am buying now replacing my 2006 macbook pro (still pentium core duo)

skipping arrandale and buying standard macbook pro 1999$:

oled display
2ghz quad core macbook pro
nvidia 3xx
intel 256ssd

like mid 2012 ?

That STILL won't be $1,999 in 2012, man. :p

[knucles]

early 2013 2499$

"i' ve a dream"

[masamune]

Some are saying that a good reason to buy now is because of the low price. Do you think apple will raise the prices when arrandale comes? That wouldn´t make sense.

[colmaclean]

Some are saying that a good reason to buy now is because of the low price. Do you think apple will raise the prices when arrandale comes? That wouldn´t make sense.

When did Apple's pricing policy ever make sense?

[nahsor]

Is updating to Arrandale even worth it with the Sandy Bridge mobile update being planned for 2011? This would just give a 1 year life span for Arrandale. With the new low prices, it almost makes more sense to buy now and then upgrade after Arrandale when the mbps switch to quad core. What do you guys think?

[iMacmatician]

Is updating to Arrandale even worth it with the Sandy Bridge mobile update being planned for 2011? This would just give a 1 year life span for Arrandale. With the new low prices, it almost makes more sense to buy now and then upgrade after Arrandale when the mbps switch to quad core. What do you guys think?Sandy Bridge will still have dual-core variants. Whether quad-cores will be cheaper with Sandy Bridge is still anyone's guess.

[nahsor]

Sandy Bridge will still have dual-core variants. Whether quad-cores will be cheaper with Sandy Bridge is still anyone's guess.

Good point but the dual-core variants will still likely blow Arrandale out of the water similar to what is happening with Penryn right now. I am just questioning whether it is worthwhile to buy a Rev A Arrandale when there might not be more than maybe one more Rev before Sandy Bridge.

[knucles]

which is this sandy bridge that everybody is talking about?

sorry the ignorance

[nahsor]

which is this sandy bridge that everybody is talking about?

sorry the ignorance

It is Nehalem's succesor. The mobile version is expected to be released in Q4 2010, Q1 2011

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge_(microarchitecture)
http://guides.macrumors.com/Intel_Mobile_Chip_Road_Map

[dangly]

I would like the new 15" MBP but im just wondering about this arrandale stuff.

I will be using my mac to run CAD design for engineering at university. I want it to be as powerful as possible for as cheap as possible.

Is the Arrandale going to give a significant increase in power and graphics compared to the quite old processor in the notebook currently?

Will the whole notebook be changed or just the processors?

and when u say it comes out in q3/q4 2009, what dates are they? and do u reckon they will be implemented instantly or do u have to wait until WWDC next year?

Lots of questions....want to get the most out of my money
cheers

[friareunuch]

i think i'll wait for the new carbon nanofiber macbook touch with the 10" iPad back to school promotion for $999, USB8.0 (the ocho), FW192000, Icosacore 2THz fusion-based processor, Bengal OS, 16TB ram, and 256 Eb Intel SSD.

it is without a doubt coming in Q3 2009. steve hand delivers them and washes your feet.

-- "a boat's a boat. but the mystery box could be anything. it could even be a boat!"

[mason.kramer]

Is updating to Arrandale even worth it with the Sandy Bridge mobile update being planned for 2011? This would just give a 1 year life span for Arrandale. With the new low prices, it almost makes more sense to buy now and then upgrade after Arrandale when the mbps switch to quad core. What do you guys think?

I believe that Arrandale will absolutely be a good time to buy. Of course a superiorproduct is scheduled to come out later, but that's not what should be considered when deciding. Rather, the jump in performance btwn penryn and arrandale is the key thing. Likely it's going to be a bigger jump than btwn a and sb. The confluence of a die shrink, on-die graphics, new architecture, mainstream ssds, lipoly, and a new dielectric layer means arrandale ubmps are beasts. 4 core laptops is silly considering ht, which is more power efficient anyway.

[iMacmatician]

Is the Arrandale going to give a significant increase in power and graphics compared to the quite old processor in the notebook currently?Rather, the jump in performance btwn penryn and arrandale is the key thing. Likely it's going to be a bigger jump than btwn a and sb. The confluence of a die shrink, on-die graphics, new architecture, mainstream ssds, lipoly, and a new dielectric layer means arrandale ubmps are beasts.Arrandale is only 10% faster than Core 2, at least in SuperPi. It would be faster in multithreaded tasks though. Plus, we won't see 45 W Arrandales (35 W Penryn successors), so that may limit performance and clock speed. The Arrandale iGPU is supposedly 2x the performance of current Intel iGPUs. Clock speeds and pricing is unknown at this point.

Will the whole notebook be changed or just the processors?I do not expect only the processors to be upgraded.

and when u say it comes out in q3/q4 2009, what dates are they? and do u reckon they will be implemented instantly or do u have to wait until WWDC next year?Nobody knows for sure but the general thought is Q1 2010.

[nahsor]

It would be faster in multithreaded tasks though.

Wait, so will the effects of this be seen in everyday tasks or only heavy tasks like games and 3D rendering? Will common applications like iLife and Office take advantage of this?

[chrmjenkins]

Wait, so will the effects of this be seen in everyday tasks or only heavy tasks like games and 3D rendering? Will common applications like iLife and Office take advantage of this?

Everything will benefit from it. Things that used the enhanced instructions it has (SSE4) or are able to use all 4 threads will see great improvement.

[nahsor]

Everything will benefit from it. Things that used the enhanced instructions it has (SSE4) or are able to use all 4 threads will see great improvement.

Thanks for the reply! I was thinking about upgrading now with the lowered prices and then upgrading in maybe 2012 or so with second Rev Sandy Bridge...but now i'm not sure...:confused:

Either way, I will be getting a machine that will come nowhere to maximizing its full potential in my hands :D

[iMacmatician]

Everything will benefit from it. Things that used the enhanced instructions it has (SSE4) or are able to use all 4 threads will see great improvement.Most of SSE4 is in Penryn. Does Nehalem feature SSE4 performance improvements?

[chrmjenkins]

Most of SSE4 is in Penryn. Does Nehalem feature SSE4 performance improvements?

Although I'm only a basic programmer (in skill, not the language), I'd wager that things like popcnt would be very helpful. It also has some nice compare instructions that should be good for large datasets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSE4#SSE4.2

[nahsor]

Will there be a big jump for the average user?

[mason.kramer]

Most of SSE4 is in Penryn. Does Nehalem feature SSE4 performance improvements?

I'm on the iPhone so I have to keep my messages brief. When I say performance and mention things like the dielectric layer, you should read that as overall performance - energy efficiency, etc. Arrandales tdps are the same as penryn+gpu iff the arrandale is going on all four cylinders (counting HTs), in which case the speedup is >>10%. Wrt to sse instructions, register size is the big difference btwn p and a. 256bit register =2x the speedup for applications that can exploit loop vectorizatjon (compared to penryn's 128). As a scientific programmer this is particularly interesting to me, but not on my laptop.

[chrmjenkins]

I'm on the iPhone so I have to keep my messages brief. When I say performance and mention things like the dielectric layer, you should read that as overall performance - energy efficiency, etc. Arrandales tdps are the same as penryn+gpu iff the arrandale is going on all four cylinders (counting HTs), in which case the speedup is >>10%. Wrt to sse instructions, register size is the big difference btwn p and a. 256bit register =2x the speedup for applications that can exploit loop vectorizatjon (compared to penryn's 128). As a scientific programmer this is particularly interesting to me, but not on my laptop.

I knew someone could give a more elaborate answer. I didn't know about the bigger registers. This should benefit all SIMD instructions, correct?

[Tallest Skil]

Will there be a big jump for the average user?

The "average user" wouldn't notice the difference between the hardware of today and the hardware of last year. An "average user" couldn't tell the difference.

[Eidorian]

The "average user" wouldn't notice the difference between the hardware of today and the hardware of last year. An "average user" couldn't tell the difference.Core 2 Duo hasn't changed much since 2006. People expect miracles with one clock speed multiplier if that.