Apple Hints at Product Refreshes?

[MacRumors]

Appleinsider reports (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=416) on a conference call with Apple Specialists yesterday by Senior Director of Channel Sales and Distribution, Jeff Hansen.

According to Appleinsider, Hanson "provided hints that the company would be 'refreshing' many of its professional products during its World Wide Developers conference, set to take place in San Francisco during the final week of June."

Apple first released the PowerMac G5 at WWDC last year.

[Grimace]

I'll believe it when I see it. Even still, i'm sure we'll see people saying, "The Dual 3GHz came out two weeks ago - should I buy or wait for the next revision??" Apple has customers with an insatiable appetite to be on the cutting edge, which I like. It makes this forum pretty amusing sometimes.

[agreenster]

WWDC is sooooooo late. At least to me.

[jxyama]

well, i guess we can stop with "are we gonna get PB update this week?" threads until June. ;)

[frinky23]

June seems like an awfully long time before a refresh.

[adamfilip]

ofcourse they are going to update the G5s at WWDC - Steve said they would..


but i think its crazy that since the last WWDC there hasnt been any speed bumps.. that doesnt make sense. there should be a 25% bump every 6 months.. minimum

[awesomebase]

You just have to wonder how Apple expects to maintain good sales of their professional product lines doing updates only once a year... especially when others are doing it anywhere from 2 to 6 times that often.
One of the problems here is that they do not distinguish between professional and consumer lines when it comes to planning out their updates. I think they should prioritize their "professional" lines to keep their technology at the forefront and to drive demand up from the consumer lines to the professional ones. Once a year just doesn't cut it for the "outside-of-Apple" world and certainly makes it difficult to bring in Windoze would-be-Apple-converts. Hope they do better next year.

[jxyama]

June seems like an awfully long time before a refresh.

not really. PB went without a refresh from jan. last year to sept. (with one price drop in between) that's just as long.

i imagine a price drop with the one year anniversary of iTMS launch and refresh at WWDC, at least for PB...

[lem0nayde]

Apple needs to refresh something...and soon.

I'm so over the iMac, it doesn't nearly have the lasting appeal of the first one. Nice gimmick, but time to move on.

Also, what's up with the eMac...Apple's poor ugly stepchild.

The iBook is nice still...but maybe they could do something with it to make it a little extra special.

Get rid of those ugly red lights on the white iPods...lets get some nice blue in there, or better yet, white.

Pro 3D Card? Hello? What is Pixar using in their G5s?

I love Apple, but I think they are stuck in iPod land right now (with good rea$$on) and need to turn their heads back to the rest of the product line. Everyone is calling for a G5 refresh...but that actually seems new compared to the others.

Innovate goddammit!

Joe

[Zaty]

well, i guess we can stop with "are we gonna get PB update this week?" threads until June. ;)

PBs update before WWDC:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67127

Edit: Further to my statement in the other thread, they just said updates to MANY (not all) of its products. I think they will in fact release new PMs, new iMacs plus if they don't drop them at all, new eMacs at WWDC. Perhaps they round it up by announcing updated iBooks as well but I guess they will release new iBooks sometime in May.

[jxyama]

ofcourse they are going to update the G5s at WWDC - Steve said they would..


but i think its crazy that since the last WWDC there hasnt been any speed bumps.. that doesnt make sense. there should be a 25% bump every 6 months.. minimum

there was, not a full bump, but dual 1.8 came out...

i guess because Mac is more of a niche compuer market, it's not like you have a choice... so speed bump is not as critical as PC vendors, perhaps?

rumoring continues... :D

[Squire]

Anyone think this will involve some cool new software revisions and/or products, too? I've been thinking about buying Keynote but it's been over a year since that came out, hasn't it? I'm wondering if we'll be able to see Keynote 2 as a response to the new version of Office.

Oh, by the way, I got a $25 off coupon for the Apple store in an email today. It has to be used within the next two weeks.

Squire

[wPod]

so thats a year of the G5? shouldnt it move beyond to more than just the powermacs?

[MacsRgr8]

A whole year before updating the G5s?
A whole Ghz (Dual) jump (leap)?

How many of you are waiting for the updated G5s since January? You must be tired of waiting by now.... and maybe even 2 more months to go. I am glad I got my Dual 1.8 in December. And loving every moment of it!

To me, it only stresses how little we know....

[adamfilip]

adding the dual 1.8 isnt a speed bump.. since the high end hasnt been changed. they just rearranged the mid range which was good.. but not a speed bump

[Photorun]

A year between updates?!?!? WTF?!?!? WHAT MORONS!!! If there was another serious choice of computer for a graphics professional I'd so jump to it, Apple's heads are up their arses!

[Stella]

Wonderful, we have to wait until WWDC. Hope the G5 PB is included, if not i'm along with many others will be extremely disappointed.

Wonder about the consumer range...?

[Grimace]

Maybe Steve will have a Keynote speech that says - ALL MACS NOW FEATURE G5 PROCESSORS.

That would be badass.

[adamfilip]

they better go beyong 3ghz at WWDC..


i think the line up should be

Dual 2.0 with 512mb DDR - Raedeon 9600
Dual 2.5 with 1024 DDR - Raedeon 9800XT
Dual 3.6 with 2048 DDR and Raedeon X800


anything less then that and i will be disapointed
not to mention price cuts of 250 accross the board

[klaus]

A year between updates?!?!? WTF?!?!? WHAT MORONS!!! If there was another serious choice of computer for a graphics professional I'd so jump to it, Apple's heads are up their arses!

Why does macrumors follow the rumors that are posted on AI? I'm sure they have an agreement about those, that's not my point.. the point is there are not enough rumors around to feed us, hungry apple-monsters..

Apple is doing a good job at keeping their empoyees' mouth shut (and firmly shut!)

Something will come, and it'll be big, been too long to just "update" something.

[Zaty]

they better go beyong 3ghz at WWDC..


i think the line up should be

Dual 2.0 with 512mb DDR - Raedeon 9600
Dual 2.5 with 1024 DDR - Raedeon 9800XT
Dual 3.6 with 2048 DDR and Raedeon X800


anything less then that and i will be disapointed
not to mention price cuts of 250 accross the board

Dual 3.6? Too good to be true, I'm afraid.

Wonderful, we have to wait until WWDC. Hope the G5 PB is included, if not i'm along with many others will be extremely disappointed.

Wonder about the consumer range...?

To all of you still dreaming of PG G5s, dream on! It's not going to happen. You will have to wait until MWSF 05 for the announcement of PB G5s, available by the end of February 2005. :)

[ingenious]

apple just loves suspense?!? Dont they? I hope that they PB G5s come out before June. I want one!!!!!! LOL :D

[1macker1]

Well if I dont get a G5 power book before Aug. then i'm getting a dell laptop. I just looked around yesterday doing some comparisons, and the G4 powerbooks are lagging big time.

[Mac-Xpert]

So now that it may take till end of June before we see anything new, they really have to jump to 3 Ghz right away. If they introduce dual 2.4's as the top speed, I think we're gonna see a lot of disappointed people at the WWDC. Even a dual 2.6, that would have been great if it was introduced in march or something, would then seem like "to little to late".

Since appleinsider speaks of problems with the implementation of the 90nm G5's I'm somewhat worried that we won't see any 3.0 Ghz and maybe not even 2.6 Ghz at WWDC.

[jaw04005]

PBs update before WWDC:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67127

Edit: Further to my statement in the other thread, they just said updates to MANY (not all) of its products. I think they will in fact release new PMs, new iMacs plus if they don't drop them at all, new eMacs at WWDC. Perhaps they round it up by announcing updated iBooks as well but I guess they will release new iBooks sometime in May.

In my opinion, they will not update the consumer line at WWDC. Its a professional setting, and just not the right venue for consumer updates. I can't believe they are waiting this long, they better have a Powerbook G5 to release at WWDC---because if they release a G4, Steve isn't going to get much of a response ;)

[ajb13]

A year between updates?!?!? WTF?!?!? WHAT MORONS!!! If there was another serious choice of computer for a graphics professional I'd so jump to it, Apple's heads are up their arses!

You so would not!

I really don't get it with us Mac people. We all go on about how long Macs last, and how great it is that even the older machines can run recent software, and how the OS breathes new life into older machines, yet, sadly we are constantly expecting them to do more and more, and more often. A dual 2Ghz G5 is going to remain one mean mother for the next 2 years. Why? Because, it's going to keep doing what you need it to day, day in, and day out. It'll see a major speed boost when 10.4 arrives, then again when the 64Bit Native 10.5 arrives. Graphically it will improve when NV40 arrives, and ATI X800's. The bottom line is this, a Mac is a long term investment, and it spends just about as much time in development. I have yet to see Apple produce professional cr*p. You can rest assured that whatever Apple has up its sleeve, it'll be awesome, but stop bitching about what you don't have, and make good use of what you have. For all of you who have been waiting, think of all the time and $$$ you've wasted waiting, and put your money where your mouth is. You're Dual 2Ghz G5 still has a long life ahead if it.

The truth is, at 75% of us bitching about not having a new rev G5 available, are probably not even going to buy one right now anyway. So lets be truthful. I've never met a Mac person who is not satisfied with his/her current machine.

My purchasing policy is simple: Buy the first rev top of the range, skip the speed bumps, and purchase the next major rev. Even then, I'll often skip the next rev A and go with a rev B. All depends on available cash. So, what do I do with my Macs? Write software, Video Editing, 3D animation for TV and Interactive Multi-Media. When converting to SA Rands, Macs are incredibly expensive (Stock Dual 2Ghz G5 - R26,969.00), but I've made my choice about how I spend my money and do so accordingly.

I don't bitch, I use my Macs.

[Zaty]

In my opinion, they will not update the consumer line at WWDC. Its a professional setting, and just not the right venue for consumer updates. I can't believe they are waiting this long, they better have a Powerbook G5 to release at WWDC---because if they release a G4, Steve isn't going to get much of a response ;)

You're right about WWDC being a professional setting, so they wouldn't announce eMacs or iBooks but I'm not so sure about possible iMacs G5. They could be targetted at pro audience as well as at consumers if they are powerful enough (i.e at 1.8 or 2.0 GHz).

Edit: You're also right about Steve Jobs not getting much of a response if he released G4 PBs at WWDC. That's another reason why I still strongly believe we'll get new PBs G4 on either April 13, 20 or 27 at the latest. As I said in an earlier post, PB G5s are way off.

[Jerry Spoon]

I don't know if I really feel like this is news. This is about the last possible moment that I can see Apple waiting to upgrade their professional line. The rest of the line is desperately ready for an update too though. I don't usually get this way with Apple, but enough waiting already. Let's look away from the shiny iPods for a moment and focus on the computers that you are supposed to be selling. :(

[Thor74]

Think a few of us already said we thought WWDC was the realistic goal for releases. I totally expect the typical thing from Apple. IE... Steve will announce that he kept his promise of 3 gigahertz but they will not ship for 3 months = late September (which matches his "late summer" decree). I seriously doubt G5 powerbooks folks. I mean, really really really unlikely.

As mentioned a 100 times before.. the adds on the Apple.com front page seem more and more like a way to promote sales of the now "old" G5's to deplete remaining stock. Looks like they have 2 months left to sell the rest of them....

[IonrayMcCloud]

Darn!

I was waiting to get the new updated G5 to replace my G3 Ibook....
Should I just get the 2.0 G5 and stop waiting?

[1macker1]

Depends on how bad u need it. If you can wait til June, i'd wait. If not for the new hardware, just for the price drop in the old hardware.
Darn!

I was waiting to get the new updated G5 to replace my G3 Ibook....
Should I just get the 2.0 G5 and stop waiting?

[ajb13]

Darn!

I was waiting to get the new updated G5 to replace my G3 Ibook....
Should I just get the 2.0 G5 and stop waiting?

Yes, get the Dual 2 G5. You won't be making a mistake. If you really need it now, ie: what you are currently doing requires the horsepower, do it. If not, and you can wait a little longer, do so. Let your actual demand dictate your purchase.

[AppleJustWorks]

Darn!

I was waiting to get the new updated G5 to replace my G3 Ibook....
Should I just get the 2.0 G5 and stop waiting?

It mainly depends on if you need it now....If you NEED (I mean need, not want) it now, then get it.


But let it be said that you must be okay with getting a Dual 2.0 for the same amount of money as a Dual 3.0 3 months later...I know that all of you just like me practically live from these sites and are applezealots but there is more to life than sitting at a desk waiting.........You decide. It is only 3 months...Think How much longer it will last than a Dual 2.0.....A 50% increases in clock speed....DAMN! :eek:

[a17inchFuture]

not really. PB went without a refresh from jan. last year to sept. (with one price drop in between) that's just as long.

i imagine a price drop with the one year anniversary of iTMS launch and refresh at WWDC, at least for PB...


wrong.

Jan-sept= 8 months

sept-june/july=10 months

And this 10 month wait has been so PB's could have a better video card and a mediocre and somewhat outdated processor thats barely faster?

Apple should be ******** ashamed of themselves, this recent showing is beyond pathetic.

[otter-boy]

About 90 percent of the people complaining about the wait for the next update were saying in January that they were going to skip the 2+GHz revision and wait for a 3GHz revision at WWDC. If Apple updates to 3GHZ, the lack of revisions in between makes no material difference to most of the people complaining here.

Also, something that is said quite often but needs to be repeated: most people have no idea when a product has been updated unless they are told. Most consumers don't care if they have the absolute top of the line, and most professionals care if they have the most powerful computer for the job. If Apple releases a dual 3GHz PM and it continues to be the most powerful computer on the market for the next year, people will be happy to buy it for that entire year.

More updates, in and of themselves are not necessarily better: Dell updates its line every month or so and has moved from a 3GHz P4 to a 3.4GHz P4 over the last year. If Apple moves from a 2GHz G5 to a 3GHz G5 in a year, they'll have updated their line more significantly though less often. Can imagine how a dual 3GHz G5 will blow a single 3.6GHz P4 out of the water at almost everything!

[mig]

'Refreshing' doesn't sound too promising. Of course a PBG5 would be great, but I doubt it now. I am still working with my Pismo with a new G4 550Mhz CPU. Great machine. Someone said Apple's 3rd Generation is the one!
This would mean even if they announce PBG5s in June, ship for Christmas, it takes another year and a half for the 3rd generation to finally kick it. Until then same thing as with the PBG4: Overheating, white spot display and so on.
I don't bitch either, I also use my mac but I expect it to be rocksolid (like the pismo), which we all could expect for that money. But unfortunately that hasn't been Apples strenth lately.
Maybe I should upgrade my CPU another time at the end of this year.

[brhmac]

I can see Apple announcing new PowerMacs in June, but what's the ship date?

August? September? October?

Later?

"Tuesday?"

[a17inchFuture]

Darn!

I was waiting to get the new updated G5 to replace my G3 Ibook....
Should I just get the 2.0 G5 and stop waiting?

WAIT! If you can afford the best model, then you should certainly wait, because the top of the line will be much better in just two months! I think it would be much wiser to wait.

[jelloshotsrule]

they better go beyong 3ghz at WWDC..


i think the line up should be

Dual 2.0 with 512mb DDR - Raedeon 9600
Dual 2.5 with 1024 DDR - Raedeon 9800XT
Dual 3.6 with 2048 DDR and Raedeon X800


anything less then that and i will be disapointed
not to mention price cuts of 250 accross the board

hahahahahahahahahah

thanks, needed that laugh....

[macdong]

well, i guess we can stop with "are we gonna get PB update this week?" threads until June. ;)

yeah, and change it to "will it be G4 or G5?" ;)

[SlowX]

What gets me is that Steve said this was going to be a BIG year for Mac, being the anniversary and all. So far all we got is the miniPod.

Ho hum.

[jelloshotsrule]

not really. PB went without a refresh from jan. last year to sept. (with one price drop in between) that's just as long.

i imagine a price drop with the one year anniversary of iTMS launch and refresh at WWDC, at least for PB...

just because the pb has gone as long in the past without a bump doesn't mean it's not "long" or even "too long" without an update...

my problem is less that they haven't updated the g5s for so long, but they haven't updated anything for so long... oh well, gives me more time to find a buyer for my dual 800.

[a17inchFuture]

More updates, in and of themselves are not necessarily better: Dell updates its line every month or so and has moved from a 3GHz P4 to a 3.4GHz P4 over the last year. If Apple moves from a 2GHz G5 to a 3GHz G5 in a year, they'll have updated their line more significantly though less often. Can imagine how a dual 3GHz G5 will blow a single 3.6GHz P4 out of the water at almost everything!


Yeah, that is great, except for literally every powermac buyer over the last year who has invested money in technology that is outdated (arguably if it isnt updated for a year, its old), while dell users are getting the newest everytime the buy. I just think its sad that I bought a 1.33 17 inch that is literally 8 months old for full price. That just makes me sick that apple thinks they can and should do this to their customers.

[Zaty]

wrong.

Jan-sept= 8 months

sept-june/july=10 months

And this 10 month wait has been so PB's could have a better video card and a mediocre and somewhat outdated processor thats barely faster?

Apple should be ******** ashamed of themselves, this recent showing is beyond pathetic.

Do you really think in the PC world huge speed bumps happen overnight? When the Pentium M was announced a year ago it was at 1.4 GHz. The fastest P M available right now runs at 1.7 GHz. That's a 300 MHz increase in a year. The top end Pentium 4m runs at 3.2 GHz, up from 2.6 or 2.8 GHz a year ago. If Apple brings out a PB 17" at 1.5 GHz (up from 1 GHz), that's not too bad an improvement if you think about it.

[scdreger]

they better go beyong 3ghz at WWDC..


i think the line up should be

Dual 2.0 with 512mb DDR - Raedeon 9600
Dual 2.5 with 1024 DDR - Raedeon 9800XT
Dual 3.6 with 2048 DDR and Raedeon X800


anything less then that and i will be disapointed
not to mention price cuts of 250 accross the board

okay with the speeds you're expecting...you're a dreamer
and if you think apple will ever be including 2 gigs of ram standard,
you're on smack!!! :eek:

[a17inchFuture]

What gets me is that Steve said this was going to be a BIG year for Mac, being the anniversary and all. So far all we got is the miniPod.

Ho hum.


That is only theoretically in stock . . .

this really is a BIG year for mac . . . a BIG ZERO so far on my score sheet. If it were legal (and physically possible) I would totally kick apple's ass. I'm sorry but they treat their customers like poo, and not the good kind . . . .


(yes I know there is no good kind)

[1macker1]

Apple must put a G5 in the powerbook for me to buy one (which i want to do). There is nothing wrong with the G4, but i'm look for my next PB purchase to be my last for about 2 years. If i wasn't on such a tight budget i'd grab a G4 right now and get a G5 whenever it came out. But I want a G5 so it will last!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[a17inchFuture]

Do you really think in the PC world huge speed bumps happen overnight? When the Pentium M was announced a year ago it was at 1.4 GHz. The fastest P M available right now runs at 1.7 GHz. That's a 300 MHz increase in a year. The top end Pentium 4m runs at 3.2 GHz, up from 2.6 or 2.8 GHz a year ago. If Apple brings out a PB 17" at 1.5 GHz (up from 1 GHz), that's not too bad an improvement if you think about it.

yeah, except that in reality, the bump isnt from 1, its from 1.25, and should be going to 1.42, not 1.5. If these facts are true (the 17 inch at 1.25 was released jan 2003) then I am sorry but a bump from 1.25 to 1.42 in a year and four months is not standard, nor acceptable.

that is a difference of 13.6 percent in a year. Wow, we should all praise the demi gods at apple for a miserable speed bump that took over a year and isnt even out yet!!!!!!


EDIT: For the record, the pentium processors, now at 1.7 (according to you) up from 1.4 a year ago, is a jump of 21 percent, and has already been released too. And my guess would be that by the time apple has updated, pentium will have too. So most likely their 21 percent jump (compared to apples theoretical 13.6 jump [slated to happen sometime before the year 3000]) will be even greater by the time apple gets its ***** together.

[Zaty]

yeah, except that in reality, the bump isnt from 1, its from 1.25, and should be going to 1.42, not 1.5. If these facts are true (the 17 inch at 1.25 was released jan 2003) then I am sorry but a bump from 1.25 to 1.42 in a year and four months is not standard, nor acceptable.

that is a difference of 13.6 percent in a year. Wow, we should all praise the demi gods at apple for a miserable speed bump that took over a year and isnt even out yet!!!!!!

I was talking about what the clcock speeds were a year ago. Both the 17" and the top end TiBook were at 1 GHz in April 03! Why shouldn't Apple be able to produce a 1.5 GHz PB if they can put a 1.42 GHz in it? Anyway 58 MHz doesn't really make any difference at all.

Edit:

EDIT: For the record, the pentium processors, now at 1.7 (according to you) up from 1.4 a year ago, is a jump of 21 percent, and has already been released too. And my guess would be that by the time apple has updated, pentium will have too. So most likely their 21 percent jump (compared to apples theoretical 13.6 jump [slated to happen sometime before the year 3000]) will be even greater by the time apple gets its ***** together.

Going from 1 GHZ to 1.42 GHz would be a 42% Jump :)

[konaforever]

....but the powerbooks on are the dock.

[AppleJustWorks]

....but the powerbooks on are the dock.


What does that mean?

[TRiPod]

apple just loves suspense?!? Dont they? I hope that they PB G5s come out before June. I want one!!!!!! LOL :D

if youre being sarcastic: ignore me

if youre serious: *slap* i'm tired of hearing that nonsense.

[a17inchFuture]

I was talking what the clcock speeds a year ago were. Both the 17" and the top end TiBook were at 1 GHz in April 03! Why shouldn't Apple be able to produce a 1.5 GHz PB if they can put a 1.42 GHz in it? Anyway 58 MHz doesn't really make any difference at all.

No you are right . . . but I am confused about when the 17 inch had a 1.25 processor? did it ever?

Yeah, its not tha tmuch of a difference, but if what i had said was true (which i am admitting now was, unbeknownst to me, incorrect), a jump from 1.25 to 1.42 in a year seemed hardly woth celebrating. But its not so bad from jan 2003, but i still think the time for updating the PB's came and went a couple months ago. What they are doing now, to me, is exploiting their customers naivety when it comes to technology. As someone alreayd pointed out, the average consumer doesnt know what all the technical stuff actually means, nor do they really care. They want what they are told is the fastest, and apple lies and cheats in order to gain that favor (kinda). The BBB would agree, as they told apple no no on the "fastest computer" quip, and now they arent updating because they know the PB is their best selling line at the moment.

I can imagine it over at apple: " so why update the PB, guys? Its selling better than our others. So who gives a crap that it could be better? Not us, and who cares about the customer!! HAHAHA!!!


EDIT: and in predicition of the several people whining about apple selling its remaining inventory, that is simply another way for them to screw their customers. Does anyone here know of another business (computer, shoes, anything) that actually will hold off udpating until it sells all its existing stock ? No, only apple.

[greenstork]

Wow tough crowd, it seems to me that this was purely a business and technology decision on Apple's part. If they had faster chips in volume, they would most likely make faster computers for this innovation hungry crowd.

Also, any smart company isn't going to release new products when they have a significant inventory. Judging from reseller inventory levels, there are still plenty of computers in the pipeline, making it literally impossible to release a new product, lest they shoot themselves in the foot.

So, it's easy to come on here and say, "Where's my dual 8 GHz Powerbook?" But thankfully, you folks don't run the company.

I think we're all a little spoiled when you think the current Apple lineup is stale. They're still the coolest damn computers on the market compared to the competition, and still reasonably competitive on speed. It's not like they're up against some groundbreaking, super fast new Dell, let's get real.

I'm sure the mods won't appreciate it but the Macrumors forums are fast becoming a whine fest.

[AppleJustWorks]

" so why update the PB, guys? Its selling better than our others. So who gives a crap that it could be better? Not us, and who cares about the customer!! HAHAHA!!!

you are really scaring me :eek:

[BornAgainMac]

The people complaining about the long delay between G5 updates are probably the ones without G5s today. They thought they would let the suckers buy the revision A G5's and get all the bugs ironed out. It turns out the G5's today are quality machines and have enough power for most people and upgradeability for new video cards and memory and disk capacity.

I was one of the first to get a G5. It has been an excellent investment. I am sure after 1 year, you will see a huge performance jump to justify the yearly update. I prefer that to frequent updates because those frequent updates just make me delay in purchasing my next system. And just for a small performance bump too.

iLife will probably be a yearly update. iLife '04 implies that. I understand that people will disagree with me on this topic and they do present a strong case for frequent updates.

[a17inchFuture]

you are really scaring me :eek:

hahaha, my bad. Certainly not the intention. I just think people are too accepting of apple's obvious huge number of flaws.

A roadmap is curtosy, and you dont see intel saying "uuhhhh, we don't wanna say anything about our newer processors until you guys have compeltely bought all our 970FX chips."

NO, because that is stupid, and the only way yiou could get away with it is in a tech market and if you were doing it to the UNKNOWING customers!!

[Zaty]

No you are right . . . but I am confused about when the 17 inch had a 1.25 processor? did it ever?

The 17" went straight from 1 GHz in Jan 03 (but did not ship until March) to 1.33 GHz in Sept 03.

[marmotte]

....but the powerbooks on are the dock.

I have been looking at getting a Powerbook G4. The reality is that I could use all the speed I can on a Powerbook (1.4 GHz G4 would be a move in the right direction) and the potential of an upgrade in the near future makes me hold off my purchase until that time. I am probably not the only one. Since Powerbooks are a good driver of sales for Apple, I can see where that would affect their sales for the quarter... That's is not good news for shareholders.

However, I still rather buy a G4 revision, even if minimal, than a first-generation G5 Powerbook!

They may have to do something soon, such as a a price drop to stimulate demand. However, memory components have been going up. They may be having trouble keeping their margins.


MM

[garybooberry]

Top sellers:

1. iPod mini

2. iPod

3. iPod mini Arm Band

4. iTrip

5. In-Ear Headphones

6. PowerBook

7. Epson Stylus C84

8. Apple 4x DVD-R

9. iLife '04

10. iMac

The iMac is the best-selling computer product they have right now.

Geesh.

[h'biki]

Its not so much the lack of speed bumps that pisses me off, but its that they don't drop prices. I'd get the dual 1.8 now, no probs, if they dropped the price by say, $500 (AU)? I don't mind being outgunned by a new machine in two months, but I do get annoyed if that machines costs exactly the same as the machine I just bought (if not cheaper)

That's especially true of the Powerbooks. I dropped my 1ghz TiBook. It still works, but I'm getting an insurance check for $2200 (AU). If I spend $2000 more ($4200 in total), I effectively get the same machine I bought over 18 months ago! Sure, it cost me $5200 then, but... Computers depreciate fast, but Apple's prices don't. That bites.

[nsb3000]

Here is what I don't understand. Apple went through all this effort to cut it self off from Summer Macworld New York/Boston, and the rational was they did not want to be constrained by expo schedules to release products. But what have they done? Turned the WWDC into the new summer Macworld as far as product releases go..

As far as the yearly updates things, goes, I agree that it seems a bit long...But I think speed updates are becoming a little less important, especially with the G5. (Look at Intel's recent move away from using megahertz to define its processors) and so we might have to except less frequent, but more meaningful upgrades. For use mac faithful, I guess that means we will buy all of our computers in June to maximize the life cycle, but for the rest of the world, it will make increasing little difference.

MY two cents.

[klaus]

The people complaining about the long delay between G5 updates are probably the ones without G5s today. They thought they would let the suckers buy the revision A G5's and get all the bugs ironed out. It turns out the G5's today are quality machines and have enough power for most people and upgradeability for new video cards and memory and disk capacity.

I was one of the first to get a G5. It has been an excellent investment. I am sure after 1 year, you will see a huge performance jump to justify the yearly update. I prefer that to frequent updates because those frequent updates just make me delay in purchasing my next system. And just for a small performance bump too.

iLife will probably be a yearly update. iLife '04 implies that. I understand that people will disagree with me on this topic and they do present a strong case for frequent updates.

I am a person without a G5 today, true
I'll let other suckers buy the rev A, and then buy the rev B without glitches, false => I'm waiting for a rev B, because 2 months ago, I finally made my mind up that I could spend a large amount for a mac, and the G5 caught my eye, but since it was released almost half a year ago, I decided to wait for rev B. Hell, if they would announce a G6 now (just theoretically) I would jump right in, and become one of those 'suckers'.

We're just customers who'd like to buy new hardware, and have the cash for it. And many of us dont have a lot of patience, me neiter, but i'm holding on... but hey that's life, i'm not making a big a deal out of it, i'm waiting..

[Trowaman]

Maybe Steve will have a Keynote speech that says - ALL MACS NOW FEATURE G5 PROCESSORS.

That would be badass.

the new motto for WWDC: "Your G5 headquarters."

Make us proud Mr. Jobs, make us proud . . .

[Zaty]

Top sellers:

1. iPod mini

2. iPod

3. iPod mini Arm Band

4. iTrip

5. In-Ear Headphones

6. PowerBook

7. Epson Stylus C84

8. Apple 4x DVD-R

9. iLife '04

10. iMac

The iMac is the best-selling computer product they have right now.

Geesh.

I guess you got that list from Apple store. I'm not sure if it does reflect overall numbers as I heard several times that both iBook and PowerBook lines sell better than any desktop. Anway even on your ranking, PBs are on 6 whereas the iMac is only on 10.

[AppleJustWorks]

Whoops....Didn't see the previous post!

[klaus]

Top sellers:

1. iPod mini

2. iPod

3. iPod mini Arm Band

4. iTrip

5. In-Ear Headphones

6. PowerBook

7. Epson Stylus C84

8. Apple 4x DVD-R

9. iLife '04

10. iMac

The iMac is the best-selling computer product they have right now.

Geesh.

You probably mean best-selling desktop computer, cause I see "Powerbook" placed 6th

[Floop]

Gee... what a a hint... Apple plan to 'refresh' many of its professional products during its World Wide Developers conference, set to take place in San Francisco during the final week of June...

Erm - the way I see it, if they weren't planning on doing a refresh of the pro line by late June, then they may as well close down and change the company name to iPod.

Steve promised 3GHZ machines by the summer. This is so not going to happen. If it happens I will eat my arse.

Floop

[klaus]

If it happens I will eat my arse.

Floop

Enjoy :D

ps : that will become a vicious circle, cause if you eat your arse, it'll come out again, and then you'll have to eat it again, and so on, and so on..

ok.. must take my medicin now..

[Knox]

I can imagine it over at apple: " so why update the PB, guys? Its selling better than our others. So who gives a crap that it could be better? Not us, and who cares about the customer!! HAHAHA!!!


I'm sensing some degree of negative feeling in your posts. Some terrible memory in the past, a Mac attacked you? :P

The idea that Apple would not bother updating the powerbooks because they're selling ok is beyond me. It might taking them longer than normal to update it but I would eat my hat if they don't have people working on all their products all the time.

I have an 'old, outdated' G5, which handles everything i throw at it. My (first gen) G4 on the other hand, now *that* is old and outdated.

[Zaty]

Its not so much the lack of speed bumps that pisses me off, but its that they don't drop prices. I'd get the dual 1.8 now, no probs, if they dropped the price by say, $500 (AU)? I don't mind being outgunned by a new machine in two months, but I do get annoyed if that machines costs exactly the same as the machine I just bought (if not cheaper)

That's especially true of the Powerbooks. I dropped my 1ghz TiBook. It still works, but I'm getting an insurance check for $2200 (AU). If I spend $2000 more ($4200 in total), I effectively get the same machine I bought over 18 months ago! Sure, it cost me $5200 then, but... Computers depreciate fast, but Apple's prices don't. That bites.

You are right about not dropping prices for models being eight months old. On the other hand, as long as PowerBooks are selling well (and as far as I know they are), why should Apple drop prices and therefore reduce their earnings? Apple, like it or not, is not as dependent on other companies' price policies as are e.g. Dell, Toshiba, Sony etc. Secondly, PB updates are coming soon anyway.

Here is what I don't understand. Apple went through all this effort to cut it self off from Summer Macworld New York/Boston, and the rational was they did not want to be constrained by expo schedules to release products. But what have they done? Turned the WWDC into the new summer Macworld as far as product releases go..



You're absolutely right. But if Apple manages to deplete their stocks right in time for WWDC, it doesn't matter if demand for current models drops a week or two or even three before WWDC as long as they can make up for pontentially lost sales before WWDC by creating enough demand for the new products after WWDC.

[iggyb]

woohoo. yeehaw. A friggin' update at the end of the 2nd quarter (not fiscal quarter, mind you). What kind of crap is this? If this is true, then I doubt that the 3GHz mark will be reached like Jobs promised, and I certainly don't think this is a very special 20th Anniversary for the Mac.

I'm emoting. If something great comes out, then I'll gladly eat my words. But this is getting really frustrating. :mad:

[denm316]

It has gotta be something huge, it just has to be, I mean they cant go all this time and say we are now updating the 15 inch PowerBook to 1.33GHz, that would just be silly.

[Eric_Z]

Enjoy :D

ps : that will become a vicious circle, cause if you eat your arse, it'll come out again, and then you'll have to eat it again, and so on, and so on..

ok.. must take my medicin now..

I actually belive that it's quite safe ... but then again what do I know about future CPU's.

[garybooberry]

You probably mean best-selling desktop computer, cause I see "Powerbook" placed 6th

Yes. :D

[Zaty]

woohoo. yeehaw. A friggin' update at the end of the 2nd quarter (not fiscal quarter, mind you). What kind of crap is this? If this is true, then I doubt that the 3GHz mark will be reached like Jobs promised, and I certainly don't think this is a very special 20th Anniversary for the Mac.

I'm emoting. If something great comes out, then I'll gladly eat my words. But this is getting really frustrating. :mad:

Although I'm bit surprised myself that we haven't seen any of those great new things yet, we just have to admit that, for what ever reason, Apple may not have planned to release new products between MWSF 04 and the day they start releasing those things. The day to judge whether 2004 was a worthy year for the 20th anniversary or not is Dec 31.

[a17inchFuture]

I have been looking at getting a Powerbook G4. The reality is that I could use all the speed I can on a Powerbook (1.4 GHz G4 would be a move in the right direction) and the potential of an upgrade in the near future makes me hold off my purchase until that time. I am probably not the only one. Since Powerbooks are a good driver of sales for Apple, I can see where that would affect their sales for the quarter... That's is not good news for shareholders.

However, I still rather buy a G4 revision, even if minimal, than a first-generation G5 Powerbook!

They may have to do something soon, such as a a price drop to stimulate demand. However, memory components have been going up. They may be having trouble keeping their margins.


MM

Why would they go out of their way to stimulate demand on their sixth best selling product, and their best selling computer.

So, my friend, but you are wrong. That doesnt make any sense. Yes they need newer revisions, but only to keep up with other companies, not to meet customer demand. Apple doesnt give a poo about their customers, in case you missed my above posts.

If they drop the price it will be out of the kindess of their hearts, not any need . And we all know how compassionate apple can be . . . .

[a17inchFuture]

I have been looking at getting a Powerbook G4. The reality is that I could use all the speed I can on a Powerbook (1.4 GHz G4 would be a move in the right direction) and the potential of an upgrade in the near future makes me hold off my purchase until that time. I am probably not the only one. Since Powerbooks are a good driver of sales for Apple, I can see where that would affect their sales for the quarter... That's is not good news for shareholders.

However, I still rather buy a G4 revision, even if minimal, than a first-generation G5 Powerbook!

They may have to do something soon, such as a a price drop to stimulate demand. However, memory components have been going up. They may be having trouble keeping their margins.


MM

Why would they go out of their way to stimulate demand on their sixth best selling product, and their best selling computer?

Sorry, my friend, but you are wrong. That doesnt make any sense. Yes they need newer revisions, but only to keep up with other companies, not to meet customer demand. Apple doesnt give a poo about their customers, in case you missed my above posts.

If they drop the price it will be out of the kindess of their hearts, not any need . And we all know how compassionate apple can be . . . .

[teksmex69]

apple can't touch the performance, much less the price of this tank:

17" notebook
3.2ghz Pentium EE w/2meg cache
2gigs of system ram
Radeon 9700 w/256meg mem
60gig 7200rpm drive (yes you read that correctly)
DVD+R/DVD-R/RW/CDRW(super super drive)
built-in-webcam included
10/100/1000 ethernet
built-in-802.11g
built-in 7-in-1 flash memory reader

$3580

Apple has a much slower powerbook, far less powerful video, same ram will cost $4373

yes the apple is thin, light and pretty....but i'm starting to feel temperamental

http://www.powernotebooks.com/images/8790/

p.s. i'm still getting my brother a 15" pb 1.25 for graduation present. i know the benefits of os x, and he does a lot of video work. but for myself...currently it would be a toss up. a speed bump with a pricebreak would help.


:confused:

[7on]

Apple's largest customer base, I would say, are graphic artists. And the problem with that is they hardly ever update. My campus's viscom lab is full of dual 450s and the profs use B/Ws. And a couple of weeks ago I went to Zipatoni and even though I saw 2 G5's I still saw a lot of colorful iMacs and some iBooks.

My point is if Apple released G5s at 2.5 Ghz @ 6months, very few people would buy one. Very few. Apple doesn't have the marketshare to overproduce a product and stockpile the older machines. Which explains the shortage of iPods over Xmas... Apple wasn't used to that much demand.

[KingJobs]

Have mercy Apple!!!! :mad:

[TimDaddy]

well, i guess we can stop with "are we gonna get PB update this week?" threads until June. ;)

I wonder if while we are all looking foward to June if Apple may surprise us with a Powerbook Update in the next week or so? :p

[klaus]

apple can't touch the performance, much less the price of this tank:

17" notebook
3.2ghz Pentium EE w/2meg cache
2gigs of system ram
Radeon 9700 w/256meg mem
60gig 7200rpm drive (yes you read that correctly)
DVD+R/DVD-R/RW/CDRW(super super drive)
built-in-webcam included
10/100/1000 ethernet
built-in-802.11g
built-in 7-in-1 flash memory reader

$3580

Apple has a much slower powerbook, far less powerful video, same ram will cost $4373

yes the apple is thin, light and pretty....but i'm starting to feel temperamental

http://www.powernotebooks.com/images/8790/

p.s. i'm still getting my brother a 15" pb 1.25 for graduation present. i know the benefits of os x, and he does a lot of video work. but for myself...currently it would be a toss up. a speed bump with a pricebreak would help.


:confused:

You can't compare such a "notebook" with a powerbook. That's the same thing as comparing a sony vaio thin model with this beast.

This model is a desktop replacer, with a lot of normal desktop equipment in it, like harddrive, etc.

Stop comparing apples and oranges.. they don't match

[bar italia]

Apple's largest customer base, I would say, are graphic artists. And the problem with that is they hardly ever update

Really? Anything to back up your opinion? Other than that your school in Missouri hasn't updated recently?

My point is if Apple released G5s at 2.5 Ghz @ 6months, very few people would buy one.

See above.

Apple's s******* in our mouths and calling it a sundae.

[Zaty]

I wonder if while we are all looking foward to June if Apple may surprise us with a Powerbook Update in the next week or so? :p

If you call something that seems obvious a surprise, yes they definitely will! :)

[uberman42]

Yawn...wake me up before you go-go

[Rustus Maximus]

Apple's largest customer base, I would say, are graphic artists. And the problem with that is they hardly ever update. My campus's viscom lab is full of dual 450s and the profs use B/Ws. And a couple of weeks ago I went to Zipatoni and even though I saw 2 G5's I still saw a lot of colorful iMacs and some iBooks.

My point is if Apple released G5s at 2.5 Ghz @ 6months, very few people would buy one. Very few. Apple doesn't have the marketshare to overproduce a product and stockpile the older machines. Which explains the shortage of iPods over Xmas... Apple wasn't used to that much demand.

7on is right...it makes no economical sense for Apple to bump out updates every 3 months or even 6 months. Most Apple users do not upgrade their machines that rapidly...not even pro users (which I am :D ).

So....ease up guys...1 GHz in 10 months ain't that bad...(thinks back to the awful Motorola days :rolleyes: )

[applekid]

If it is indeed a June release at WWDC, maybe the products will actually come out in June. I guess it's better than getting an announcement two months early.

But I still want to see some updated hardware much earlier.

[Rustus Maximus]

It could be they will announce them at NAB on the 14th...then actually have them available by WWDC like applekid is saying.

[KindredMAC]

Really? Anything to back up your opinion? Other than that your school in Missouri hasn't updated recently?



See above.

Apple's s******* in our mouths and calling it a sundae.

I am a graphic artist for over the last decade in a few art depts and have yet to see any of the art depts update their Macs under the 5 year mark.
I purchased two 400mhz G4's in 2000/2001 and won't be able to upgrade to the G5 until FY2005-2006. In my previous job, I used a Mac Clone that was 2 years old when I started there and I was there for two years....guess what they are using now after I left??? DELLs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The reason? They wanted a cheaper price point and they didn't want to update in under 5 years.

So YES, unfortunately, Art Depts usually take quite a long time to upgrade the actual Macs unless you work for some Fortune 500 company that will update their Macs every 18 months.

[Rustus Maximus]

So YES, unfortunately, Art Depts usually take quite a long time to upgrade the actual Macs unless you work for some Fortune 500 company that will update their Macs every 18 months.

Well I do work for one of those companies that can and does upgrade about every 18 months...so again...what's the hubub about a year between updates? :rolleyes:

It hasn't even been a year yet...and probably won't be.

[CaptainScarlet]

Isn't it time for the point where you can enjoy the speed of dual 2.0 ghz?!?!?! My dual is quite fast for what I do!! How fast do you them to go!?!?! Would it help Word or would it help the latest (mac standards) games, if they were at 2.6 Ghz???

How much of a difference would it be???


Yes of course, we want faster machines. Right??

Well I would rather have better software, maybe Apple develop games for the Mac ( now that's a concept! ), then have a release every 6 month on hardware.

Since I can't afford to buy a NEW MAC every 6 month, the updates are worthless.


I just think we need to emphasize the value of what we have. And push Apple to produce a better product.

[zac4mac]

I think at issue in this long update cycle is the group waiting for a RevB G5.

I was almost one of those but the jump in horsepower from my G4 Dual550 to a DP2G5 was too much to pass on. No regrets now, I still have a top end box 7 months later and am still impressed. The new case kicks El Capitan's butt and I've had only one issue - some video problems that were pretty much solved by swapping ports on my two monitors. Very happy with my RevA box. If I had waited until a RevB came out, I'd be going nuts right now. No way I'd buy now, when an update could come at any day...

This has to be killing sales and is not good for my stock prices.

[Bhennies]

I have this feeling that they're going to drop a whole bunch of wonderful products at WWDC. Or let me rephrase that...if they don't, they're screwed...I'm hoping that Apple, no longer in debt and finally with a concrete future, will make a smart decision.

So, I'm gonna be hopelessly optimistic. Just because Apple hasn't made a 1 ghz. leap (2.0 -3.0), doesn't mean it won't ever happen. There's a possibility that they had planned revisions (2.2-2.6), but realized that with just a little more R&D, they could squeeze out the 3.0 by WWDC.

But then again...Akem's razor states that the simplest concept is usually the explanation. So that means they've probably been focused on the iPod, and simply lost sight of everything else. For a company that's not used to $$$, big cash flow can change your perspective on what's important.

[pgwalsh]

You so would not!
The truth is, at 75% of us bitching about not having a new rev G5 available, are probably not even going to buy one right now anyway. So lets be truthful. I've never met a Mac person who is not satisfied with his/her current machine.
I dont' bitch.Sure you don't bitch.. ha ha ha. Kidding.

Anyway, I think people want the latest and greatest when they purchase a new computer. I certainly do and granted you can argue that what's available is the latest and greatest from Apple, we have all been expecting updates. I would be surprised if someone wasn't expecting a revsion from the first release for a year. I don't think anyone would have expected that. Six months, sure. Not a friggin year. Regardless, when I make my PM purchase, I want to purchase it within a few months of the release, not 9 months after.

I have the $$$ ready and waiting. Am I happy about what's going on? HELL NO! But I'll deal with it. ;)

[Dave the Great]

A whole year before updating the G5s?
A whole Ghz (Dual) jump (leap)?

How many of you are waiting for the updated G5s since January? You must be tired of waiting by now.... and maybe even 2 more months to go. I am glad I got my Dual 1.8 in December. And loving every moment of it!

To me, it only stresses how little we know....

Yes, I am tired of waiting.

And what's worse is that it will probably take 2-3 months after they are announced in June to actually ship........

[wdlove]

Although I'm bit surprised myself that we haven't seen any of those great new things yet, we just have to admit that, for what ever reason, Apple may not have planned to release new products between MWSF 04 and the day they start releasing those things. The day to judge whether 2004 was a worthy year for the 20th anniversary or not is Dec 31.

I agree that you can't judge this year until the end. We still have eight months to go of this 20th anniversary year.

I still can't see Apple releasing any new Power Mac G5 until after June 26th due to the current offer of $500 off.

[leftbanke7]

What makes me giggle that people have already given up on Steve's claim about this being a great year. Well, unless I have missed something, this year isn't over yet. Relax, there are still 8 months left in this year for Apple to release these products that you are all clamoring about and only 25% of you will buy.

As for me, when I get my student loan money, I'm getting my iBook/PowerBook (haven't decided yet) regardless of what it has in it (G4 vs G5) as my computer purchase will be a symbol of my adoration of the Apple line, not the overwhelming desire to have cutting edge technology.

*hugs computer*

[klaus]

I think at issue in this long update cycle is the group waiting for a RevB G5.


Exactly, the ones who have one, have no reason to complain, cause they already have all the horsepower they need.

But it's a fact, there will always be people who want the biggest, the greatest, as soon as possible (meaning like the NEXT day) :-)

[bar italia]

Isn't it time for the point where you can enjoy the speed of dual 2.0 ghz?!?!?! My dual is quite fast for what I do!!

Since I can't afford to buy a NEW MAC every 6 month, the updates are worthless.


Oh, I get it now. If you don't need the extra speed, then noone does. :rolleyes:

[wdlove]

What makes me giggle that people have already given up on Steve's claim about this being a great year. Well, unless I have missed something, this year isn't over yet. Relax, there are still 8 months left in this year for Apple to release these products that you are all clamoring about and only 25% of you will buy.

*hugs computer*

I also haven't given up. It is best to be patient, we have become a culture of instant gratification. I happen to be among the 25%, have a majority of the money ready.

[klaus]

jep, although it's hard to wait, i'll succeed.

the money is sitting in the bank and will belong to Apple when rev B's come out, but they could get more money from me if they'd release them before 26th of june, so I can use the display promo. If I can't use the promo, I will not buy an apple display, then i'll stick with my 2 19" CRT's. Because the new apple displays price will be too high, when accumulated with a G5 purchase.. too bad

[pgwalsh]

7on is right...it makes no economical sense for Apple to bump out updates every 3 months or even 6 months. Most Apple users do not upgrade their machines that rapidly...not even pro users [/i]OMG... That's like saying that everyone is on the same purchasing cycle.... The average business udpates every two to three years. Many studies have been done to show this. Consumers run on about the same cycle.

So you're right people don't upgrade as often as 3 to 6 months. However, different companies/people will upgrade between these times and will expect the latest hardware. That's what so great about compeititon. You have to be on the top of your game. You have to have the best comopenents for the best value. Too bad Apple is the only company making computer that can run OS X. They don't have to play by the rules. They can take their sweet time and do what they want. Nevermind that it may make people steer clear of Apple for various reasons.

A lot have people have waited and with good reason. They want the best for their hard earned money. They are reasonbly in expecting udpates. The entire computer industry is updating constantly. So it makes sense, since this is Apples own history of updates.

Expect more not less. Sheesh.

I think these delays put doubts in peoples minds...

[Ken6800]

Sorry for a noob butting in, but I would have thought that if Apple were going to update anything then it would be the range of displays which, by my estimation, are nearing a two year limit or more.

Or will that come sooner? I would have thought new LCD HDTV ready displays would be perfect for the "professional" WWDC?

I wouldn't mind G5 powerbooks either, but my g4 Ti is fine for now!

[davidnator]

For all you fools stating that updates aren't even necessary, your wrong. I can only guess that the people running G5's and satisfied with their performance are doing it for apps like photoshop, illustrator, and the like. However if you do heavy video editing--lot's of effects, multiple tracks, etc--or 3d modeling the current G5 is inadequate.

Actually what's even more sad about this issue is that it's not even a hardware problem. Software has simply not caught up to the hardware. Infact the dual processing efficiency of even apple's much touted software is inadequate. If I am doing some renders or file encodes I run the cpu monitor at the same time. And although it occasionally spikes to 80% to 90%, most of the time it sits at somewhere around 60% (as a total of both processors). I hope the work IBM and Apple are doing to optimize the gcc compiler is going well because the apps need it. And bad!

[dieselg4]

Apple's largest customer base, I would say, are graphic artists. And the problem with that is they hardly ever update. My campus's viscom lab is full of dual 450s and the profs use B/Ws. And a couple of weeks ago I went to Zipatoni and even though I saw 2 G5's I still saw a lot of colorful iMacs and some iBooks.

My point is if Apple released G5s at 2.5 Ghz @ 6months, very few people would buy one. Very few. Apple doesn't have the marketshare to overproduce a product and stockpile the older machines. Which explains the shortage of iPods over Xmas... Apple wasn't used to that much demand.

Makes me long for my long lost Amiga 4000 and a Gen Lock . . . back when digital camer'as were in thier infacy and I had a large RCA videocamera perched on a stand like some bizaarr microscope for making frame animations. . .

[crees!]

A year between updates?!?!? WTF?!?!? WHAT MORONS!!! If there was another serious choice of computer for a graphics professional I'd so jump to it, Apple's heads are up their arses!

Speaking of morons - WWDC won't be a year between updates. The G5 was announced then but didn't ship till months later.

[1macker1]

So is this suspose to make things better. I'm sure they'll announce them at WWDC and they won't ship til months later.
Speaking of morons - WWDC won't be a year between updates. The G5 was announced then but didn't ship till months later.

[Jookbox]

A year between updates?!?!? WTF?!?!? WHAT MORONS!!! If there was another serious choice of computer for a graphics professional I'd so jump to it, Apple's heads are up their arses!

if you truly are a graphics pro, you would be equally comfortable with a pc.

[Mr Maui]

ofcourse they are going to update the G5s at WWDC - Steve said they would..

but i think its crazy that since the last WWDC there hasnt been any speed bumps.. that doesnt make sense. there should be a 25% bump every 6 months.. minimum

I believe this article said that due to some issues with the models-to-be, they were unable to have them ready by March. :rolleyes:

[MongoTheGeek]

PB's should update next week... I finally broke down and ordered one. :)

*sigh*

I may have to go to WWDC this year though I am worried about flying into DC on July3rd

[pgwalsh]

if you truly are a graphics pro, you would be equally comfortable with a pc.Yes... you have the say on what makes someone a pro and not a pro... We must all bow to Jookbox for his superior knowledge. :rolleyes: :p

[noel4r]

of course they would, who doesn't think they wouldn't refresh anything then? they haven't significantly updated anything for about a year. this is a no-brainer.

[Mr Maui]

they better go beyong 3ghz at WWDC..

i think the line up should be

Dual 2.0 with 512mb DDR - Raedeon 9600
Dual 2.5 with 1024 DDR - Raedeon 9800XT
Dual 3.6 with 2048 DDR and Raedeon X800

anything less then that and i will be disapointed
not to mention price cuts of 250 accross the board

Hmmm ...

Maybe they should just give them away to anyone who has been disappointed by the update timetable.

Yeah, that's a plan ... should win a fan or two back ... No?!? :eek:

[gopher]

Well if I dont get a G5 power book before Aug. then i'm getting a dell laptop. I just looked around yesterday doing some comparisons, and the G4 powerbooks are lagging big time.

The G4 Powerbooks can run XP. The Dell laptops only can run Mac OS 8.1.

I have a 17" Powerbook, and IMHO it is the best laptop ever built. Look at http://www.macvspc.info and you'll see that processor and Mhz isn't everything.

[Mr Maui]

The truth is, at 75% of us bitching about not having a new rev G5 available, are probably not even going to buy one right now anyway. So lets be truthful. I've never met a Mac person who is not satisfied with his/her current machine.

I so agree!! Well said! :)

[Mr Maui]

You're also right about Steve Jobs not getting much of a response if he released G4 PBs at WWDC. That's another reason why I still strongly believe we'll get new PBs G4 on either April 13, 20 or 27 at the latest. As I said in an earlier post, PB G5s are way off.

Powerbook G4s at WWDC ...

Can anyone say "BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!" :D

[Awimoway]

I can't believe all the Apple apologists falling over themselves to be used and abused by Mr. Jobs and his merry band of slackers. "Thank you, sir. May I please have another?" :rolleyes:

This is really inexcusable. A year between updates (and it will be a year, because there will inevitably be a two month delay before delivery after WWDC announcements)? This is the computer industry, people. Frequent updates are a fact of life. Customers expect it and hold off on purchases when an update seems due/overdue.

What do you think is the point of MacRumor's Buyer's Guide? Let's take a stroll through the handy guide and see what it says about Apple's computer line:

LCD's: Don't buy, updates soon
PowerBook: Buy only if you need it - Approaching the end of a cycle
iBook: Don't Buy - Updates soon
eMac: Buy only if you need it - Approaching the end of a cycle
iMac: Buy only if you need it - Approaching the end of a cycle
PowerMac: Don't buy - Updates soon
xServe: Buy - Product recently updated

So every line except the xServe is long in the tooth. Admittedly, these are not official Apple forecasts, they're just arn's predictions based on past behavior, but that's my point—based on past behavior. Most of the people who bother themselves to come to a site like this time their decisions to get the latest and greatest and not to get ripped off—nobody wants to spend thousands for a computer only to see it's price cut significantly a month later when Apple updates the line.

If Apple is moving to annual updates, they are doing themselves (not to mention their customers) great harm. There will be a rash of purchases right after release. Everyone will get mad waiting three months for their orders to be filled, and then sales will fall off. Three out of every four quarters will be dismal. The PowerMac has not sold well since the Fall—since people stopped seeing the current offerings as fresh and current.

It's going to get a lot worse if people have to wait till summer.

[Soire]

The G4 Powerbooks can run XP. The Dell laptops only can run Mac OS 8.1.

I have a 17" Powerbook, and IMHO it is the best laptop ever built. Look at http://www.macvspc.info and you'll see that processor and Mhz isn't everything.


How is that possible? Do you mean technically feasible, or these laptops can actually support one another?

[garybooberry]

I think Apple has something cooking.

The G5 was a total surprise to the market. It was known that they were working on a chip, but not such a radical change to the architecture and design...correct me if my memory is failing me.

I think Powerbook updates are unlikely in G5 fashion - the rumors confirm it and so does Motorola's recent release of the G4 at 1.5 GHz. Why would Motorola release a chip to a non-existent market?

I do think we will see a major G5 update, and I believe they will break 3.0 GHz with the Rev. B's. They have to in order to maintain any credibiltiy.

Just my worthless two cents. My G4 does everything I need it to until I start doing more rendering. Hopefully the G5 will be updated by then.

[ccuilla]

For all you fools stating that updates aren't even necessary, your wrong. I can only guess that the people running G5's and satisfied with their performance are doing it for apps like photoshop, illustrator, and the like. However if you do heavy video editing--lot's of effects, multiple tracks, etc--or 3d modeling the current G5 is inadequate.

So, let me ask, even if the PMG5 is inadequate for your use, what other products do you have to choose from that are more qualified for this work?

Actually what's even more sad about this issue is that it's not even a hardware problem. Software has simply not caught up to the hardware. Infact the dual processing efficiency of even apple's much touted software is inadequate. If I am doing some renders or file encodes I run the cpu monitor at the same time. And although it occasionally spikes to 80% to 90%, most of the time it sits at somewhere around 60% (as a total of both processors). I hope the work IBM and Apple are doing to optimize the gcc compiler is going well because the apps need it. And bad!

So what you're saying is that Apple needs to update its SOFTWARE...NOT its hardware...at least for the use you have mentioned.

I suspect that they are working, hard, on both.

[wdlove]

okay with the speeds you're expecting...you're a dreamer
and if you think apple will ever be including 2 gigs of ram standard,
you're on smack!!! :eek:

Sometimes dreams do come true. The wait may just be so Steve can really wow us on this 20th anniversary year. In reality I don't see why 1 gig DDR wouldn't be standard.

[ccuilla]

Let me see if I can break this down...

This is really inexcusable.

What does that mean? Does it mean that there are no valid excuses for the timing of their product releases? Like engineering, logistics, supply issues?

A year between updates (and it will be a year, because there will inevitably be a two month delay before delivery after WWDC announcements)?

Well, first of all, it has not YET been a year since they announced the machines...only about 9 months. Second, it has only been 6 months since they began shipping. Third, it is quite possible that they will be ready to ship when they announce. This is not impossible or even unprecedented. There are many, possibly invalid, assumptions in what you are saying.

This is the computer industry, people. Frequent updates are a fact of life.

So? Who cares? Is the current PMG5 adequate for your needs? If not, go buy the product that is.

Customers expect it and hold off on purchases when an update seems due/overdue.

Do they really? Or is it that "geeks" who have so much time to read/post Apple rumors and message boards do this? I am willing to bet that it is the latter.

[paulypants]

What happens at WWDC when Apple introduces
new G5 Powermacs topping out under 3Ghz?

From the problems they've supposedly had
there's no guarantee that we'll actually see
3Ghz Powermacs by September 04

[ccuilla]

I am really amazed at the amount of negativity about Apple here. Not because they have delivered a crappy product, but because they aren't moving fast enough.

BTW...with regard to the "the rest of the industry updates every 3 months"...this might well be true, but I suspect that they are relatively minor updates, where what you see from Apple over 4-6 months is an aggregate of the updates you've seen by the competitors.

[catalystx]

Why are so many of you reacting to this rumor about WWDC releases like it's etched into stone? Anything could happen and no one outside of Apple's top management knows what will so what's up with all the ridiculous posts declaring how the market is going to react to these unconfirmed product updates?

[MongoTheGeek]

What happens at WWDC when Apple introduces
new G5 Powermacs topping out under 3Ghz?

From the problems they've supposedly had
there's no guarantee that we'll actually see
3Ghz Powermacs by September 04

I'll bring the rope. Who has the torches?

[pgwalsh]

I am really amazed at the amount of negativity about Apple here. Not because they have delivered a crappy product, but because they aren't moving fast enough.

BTW...with regard to the "the rest of the industry updates every 3 months"...this might well be true, but I suspect that they are relatively minor updates, where what you see from Apple over 4-6 months is an aggregate of the updates you've seen by the competitors.Er because the have a choice in the matter? Hmmm for many years they fell behing the competitors in the Mhz race and now they've had a good bump, but seem to have stalled. aggreate? Maybe, but consistancy and time frame are much more solid indicators of a healthy platform.

[ccuilla]

Er because the have a choice in the matter?

Who? Apple? The customers? If the customers, then go with the other choice? What is it?

but seem to have stalled. aggreate?

Nope. I don't agree that they have stalled. They delivered the first version of this product 6 months ago.

consistancy and time frame are much more solid indicators of a healthy platform.

"much more solid" than what?

[paulypants]

I'll bring the rope. Who has the torches?

Got em right here ;)

[Steven1621]

it seems like a rather long time for an update considering most of the components that they would probably use are already available...unless the G5 PB or the 3 GHz PM are on their way.

if updates were done at that time, would they be available for delivery for the back to school crowd?

[djacopille]

Apple seems to like to introduce new computers and let them sit for a year without updates. Of course it's always someone's fault - back then it was Motorola that couldn't get their act together. Today? IBM? Apple? The boogie man? Who cares. Apple can do somethings great but others it just can't pull off - that's what makes it a second rate computer company.

When introduced Steve Jobs stated the would be at 3 GHz in 12 months (or end of next summer, I forget which). Possibly he meant the summer after the next.

[ccuilla]

it seems like a rather long time for an update considering most of the components that they would probably use are already available...

Unless they are doing a new motherboard for the 90nm 970FX with a different cooling system.

if updates were done at that time, would they be available for delivery for the back to school crowd?

Back to school? How many "back to schoolers" are buying PMG5s?

[spinko]

Apple's largest customer base, I would say, are graphic artists. And the problem with that is they hardly ever update. My campus's viscom lab is full of dual 450s and the profs use B/Ws. And a couple of weeks ago I went to Zipatoni and even though I saw 2 G5's I still saw a lot of colorful iMacs and some iBooks.

My point is if Apple released G5s at 2.5 Ghz @ 6months, very few people would buy one. Very few. Apple doesn't have the marketshare to overproduce a product and stockpile the older machines. Which explains the shortage of iPods over Xmas... Apple wasn't used to that much demand.

Yes, but... Apple is trying to get PC users to buy Apple computers. No future-ex-PC user even an graphic artist is going to buy an "outdated" (note the quotes) machine that cost's much more than a comparable winbox. I know initial purchase cost is not everything but beeing as slow as Apple is right now in bringing out updates, makes it harder to convince potential customers to switch. Especially those I mentioned.

Holding off this long - without the slightest indication of when or how - is very damaging. I would prefer them to tell the word: "listen we got a problem, don't expect updates untill after summer 04" or "we're droping the price tag of our current offering because we will be bringing out new machines in two months"...

Beeing secretive about future plans, products and strategies, especially after all the hype, surely can't be in the benefit of either Apple or the Mac comunity, or am I missing something.

I don't want to ruin your appetite but this is what Apple is really up against in the portable computer market. And only a G5 offering will counter act it. Note "systems now shipping within 7 days...".

http://alienware.com/system_pages/sentia.aspx

[ccuilla]

Yes, but... Apple is trying to get PC users to buy Apple computers. No future-ex-PC user is going to buy an "outdated" (note the quotes) machine that cost's much more than a comparable winbox. I know initial purchase cost is not everything but beeing as slow as Apple is right now in bringing out updates, makes it harder to convince potential customers to switch. Especially those I mentioned.

I challenge your assertion here that you can buy a comparable PC box for less right now. Can you? Really? Significantly cheaper? Just a little?

[cmoney]

So? Who cares? Is the current PMG5 adequate for your needs? If not, go buy the product that is.

That's kind of the point isn't it? If Apple can't produce a product that's adequate for my needs, they lose the sale. Why aren't they doing anything to capture that sale? If you're trying to increase market share (which was a stated goal a year or 2 ago) wouldn't you want to stay away from this attitude: "here's what I got for you, if you don't like it, buy from someone else."

Even incremental updates help to stave off the perception that models are out of date, or in many people's view, stagnant. If Apple had done a minor update say 2 months ago, I think many people wouldn't have the feeling that they're paying Day 1 prices for 6-9 month old hardware/specs. Minor updates could be very minor, like keeping hard drive sizes on par with industry or increasing RAM 256MB. Instead Apple does 1 or 2 big updates a year and rather than drop prices, their margins go up as component costs go down. This pretty much incents people to wait at around the 6-9 month time frame and sales drop as a result.

I guess you can argue that they're two different update models: several incremental upgrades vs. sparse aggregate, more significant upgrades. And maybe as a result of processor update schedules or hardware engineering constraints, the sparse aggregate model works better for Apple. Problem is the incremental upgrade model is what people expect from the computer industry so Apple looks slow compared to the rest of the industry. Yet another problem you don't want if you want to be seen as "the fastest personal computer in the world."

[cait-sith]

you'll wait and you'll like it!

who needs bleeding edge technology anyways? 10.3.3 isn't optimized for anything not already 6 months old. the software isn't capable of taking full advantage of the hardware.

geez, the wife has a g3 233mhz black powerbook running 10.1.3, got no complaints.

so calm down you bunch of judases. you can't turn your backs on apple just cause they're not releasing updates within 2 weeks of average predicted updating time.

buy now, your product will be good till, say, 04/2007. buy in 3 months, it'll be good till 07/2007. see a trend here?

edit:

how many of you actually see your cpu at >80% usage all the time? how many of you actually see your memory at >80% usage all the time? probably not a lot of you. the only ones that have their machine constantly performing at near full capacity are rendering/dv machines. who cares if finder takes an extra 200ms to load your hard drive view, or safari takes an extra 50ms to render www.macrumors.com (such that you can post about how slow it is)

[ccuilla]

That's kind of the point isn't it? If Apple can't produce a product that's adequate for my needs, they lose the sale.

Well, maybe. If someone else has the product you need/want and Apple doesn't, then yes, they will lose a sale. But if no one else has a product that you want/need and can buy, then they really aren't losing a sale. They just are not getting a sale...yet.

Why aren't they doing anything to capture that sale?

What makes you assume that they are not? I assume that they are.

If you're trying to increase market share (which was a stated goal a year or 2 ago) wouldn't you want to stay away from this attitude: "here's what I got for you, if you don't like it, buy from someone else."

But I don't assume that is what Apple is doing. I assume what they are doing is saying "here's what we have right now. We're working on something new. We have a plan, but we encounter problems. We'll release the next thing when we can and when it is ready. Until then, here is what we have to offer."

Even incremental updates help to stave off the perception that models are out of date, or in many people's view, stagnant.

I am not assuming that as many people see the stagnation that you do.

If Apple had done a minor update say 2 months ago, I think many people wouldn't have the feeling that they're paying Day 1 prices for 6-9 month old hardware/specs.

I don't know where this comes from. The automatic assumtion of deflationary pricing.

This pretty much incents people to wait at around the 6-9 month time frame and sales drop as a result.

I'll bet only people that don't really NEED these machines but WANT them. Someone that really needs the machine...for their work...will buy it now.

Problem is the incremental upgrade model is what people expect from the computer industry so Apple looks slow compared to the rest of the industry.

I agree, some people do have this expectation. But I doubt most do. I suspect most people buy a machine and start using it and don't begin agonizing the next day that Apple is going to come out with something that will make their's obsolete.

[spinko]

I challenge your assertion here that you can buy a comparable PC box for less right now. Can you? Really? Significantly cheaper? Just a little?

Ok, I'm probably exagerating a little. But a friend of mine bought a Dell, fully loaded with all the gizmos PC geeks like for something like CHF 2,500.-. Here, in Switzerland, the 15"G4/1Ghz PB currently sells for CHF*3,199.00 with less memory, less disk, less processor, etc. And having used one, it's far les responsive (especially with Macromedia programs) than even an 1.5 years old Dell portable which isn't beautifull, I agree.

[ccuilla]

Ok, I'm probably exagerating a little. But a friend of mine bought a Dell, fully loaded with all the gizmos PC geeks like for something like CHF 2,500.-. Here, in Switzerland, the 15"G4/1Ghz PB currently sells for CHF*3,199.00 with less memory, less disk, less processor, etc. And having used one, it's far les responsive (especially with Macromedia programs) than even an 1.5 years old Dell portable which isn't beautifull, I agree.

I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing the PMG5.

[spinko]

I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing the PMG5.

My excuse for drifting off-topic :)

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

apple can't touch the performance, much less the price of this tank:

17" notebook
3.2ghz Pentium EE w/2meg cache
2gigs of system ram
Radeon 9700 w/256meg mem
60gig 7200rpm drive (yes you read that correctly)
DVD+R/DVD-R/RW/CDRW(super super drive)
built-in-webcam included
10/100/1000 ethernet
built-in-802.11g
built-in 7-in-1 flash memory reader

$3580

Apple has a much slower powerbook, far less powerful video, same ram will cost $4373

yes the apple is thin, light and pretty....but i'm starting to feel temperamental

http://www.powernotebooks.com/images/8790/

p.s. i'm still getting my brother a 15" pb 1.25 for graduation present. i know the benefits of os x, and he does a lot of video work. but for myself...currently it would be a toss up. a speed bump with a pricebreak would help.


:confused:
Hehe.. And compare the 10 Mins batterylife with 4 hours... ;)

[Rustus Maximus]

OMG... That's like saying that everyone is on the same purchasing cycle.... The average business udpates every two to three years. Many studies have been done to show this. Consumers run on about the same cycle. So you're right people don't upgrade as often as 3 to 6 months. However, different companies/people will upgrade between these times and will expect the latest hardware.

No...you are correct in that everyone is not on the same purchasing cycle. However, maybe Apple is trying to do something along that nature. Automobile manufacturer's don't upgrade their vehicle lines every time some new gadget comes out. They have a set upgrade cycle and people wait to see what will be coming in the "next exciting model".

Concerning the latest hardware, well, the dual 2GHz G5 is the latest hardware from Apple...

That's what so great about compeititon. You have to be on the top of your game. You have to have the best comopenents for the best value. Too bad Apple is the only company making computer that can run OS X. They don't have to play by the rules. They can take their sweet time and do what they want. Nevermind that it may make people steer clear of Apple for various reasons.

...there is competition...PC's, Windows and all of the associated headaches that come with those (just as there are headaches with the Mac.) Apple is the only one who makes Apples...just as BMW is the only one who makes BMWs. They don't want to liscence their product out...it might seem assanine it drives some folks away I'm sure but if those folks want Apple...they will buy one of the present G5s, or they will wait for Apple's next upgrade cycle

Also, Apple is not just a hardware company don't forget about their software. The constant upgrades and speed improvements in OS X make little differences that keep older Macs viable and capable of doing what you ask them to do for much longer than their Windows counterparts.

A lot have people have waited and with good reason. They want the best for their hard earned money. They are reasonbly in expecting udpates. The entire computer industry is updating constantly. So it makes sense, since this is Apples own history of updates.

I am one of those people who have waited and will continue to wait. I am still running a Dual 1 GHz Quicksilver (whip cracks in the distance). Of course it's reasonable to expect updates...I didn't say it wasn't just that I think the anger is a little unfounded. The dual 2GHz G5 is a screamer, even after a year of the computer industry constantly upgrading. The industry is always upgrading and if you always must have the latest and greatest and fastest machine then you are going to need deep pockets not to mention the patience to deal with the constant hassle of settling in to a new Mac every 3 to 6 months, if Apple upgraded with the ferocity of Dell and the other PC snakeoil salesmen. Most consumers will not upgrade that frequently and while I realize that everyone has different upgrade cycles, Apple may just be creating a yearly major upgrade cycle with minor changes every 6 months so we Mac users will have to adapt accordingly if we want to use Macs.

Expect more not less. Sheesh.

I think these delays put doubts in peoples minds...

I and most Mac owners do expect more...if we didn't then we'd all be running PCs now and I wouldn't be on this board having this friendly conversation about Apple. Mac users love their computers. It is an obsession with us, we are fiercely loyal and the only doubts created are usually in the minds of those who were wiffle waffling to begin with. The computer world has been tolling the death bell for Apple for the last 20 years. "Danger Will Robinson, DANGER! Apple hasn't announced upgrades for 8 months! They're sinking...SINKING!!"

1GHz increase in a year, possibly under a year? What's everybody complaining about? I'd like to see the P4 pull that off. If you've made it this far without a G5 revision you can hang on for a few more weeks, like I am going to. Otherwise...snag a 2GHz dualie...they rock from what I hear and still will even after these new boxes come out.

[reorx]

For all you fools stating that updates aren't even necessary, your wrong. I can only guess that the people running G5's and satisfied with their performance are doing it for apps like photoshop, illustrator, and the like. However if you do heavy video editing--lot's of effects, multiple tracks, etc--or 3d modeling the current G5 is inadequate.

Actually what's even more sad about this issue is that it's not even a hardware problem. Software has simply not caught up to the hardware. Infact the dual processing efficiency of even apple's much touted software is inadequate. If I am doing some renders or file encodes I run the cpu monitor at the same time. And although it occasionally spikes to 80% to 90%, most of the time it sits at somewhere around 60% (as a total of both processors). I hope the work IBM and Apple are doing to optimize the gcc compiler is going well because the apps need it. And bad!

If you're not seeing 100% cpu utilization on a processor intensive task, you are either paging due to not enough memory or IO bound. Buy more memory or a RAID array and stop whining. What did you do in the days before dual G5? Do you want to go back?

[spinko]

I'll bet only people that don't really NEED these machines but WANT them. Someone that really needs the machine...for their work...will buy it now.

I'm currently using a G4/466 desktop which is slow but at least it didn't cost me anything since I've lent it. I had a G4/1ghz PB which I sold after 2 weeks of usage because it felt only slightly faster than this old G4/466. Of course I could continue using the G4/466 for the next couple of years.. come to think of it - that's what I'm going to do :)

[ccuilla]

I'm currently using a G4/466 desktop which is slow but at least it didn't cost me anything since I've lent it. I had a G4/1ghz PB which I sold after 2 weeks of usage because it felt only slightly faster than this old G4/466. Of course I could continue using the G4/466 for the next couple of years.. come to think of it - that's what I'm going to do :)

And when you finally upgrade to a PMG6--quad processor---5GHz machine, you'll be pissed that you can't just doubl-click Safari, and go get a cup of coffee while it launches.

;-)

[spinko]

exactly :)

[reorx]

A year between updates?!?!? WTF?!?!? WHAT MORONS!!! If there was another serious choice of computer for a graphics professional I'd so jump to it, Apple's heads are up their arses!

Sounds like you're having software problems. What piece of software do you have that won't run on a PC? How many times do you replace your machines (I assume you have multiple machines) 2x a year 3x a year? I assume your time-to -market for jobs is the fastest in your profession?

There are other machines out there. Professional workstations. Depends on what you define as "graphics professional".

[meddle]

For me it's becuase I'm in the market to upgrade, and I know an update should be close. I want a new mac, I can afford to buy one now. I don't want to wait until June for the announcement, then September for it to ship. 6 months between updates might be too short for Apple to blow throught their stock, but 12 monthes is too long for customers to wait. The 3Ghz by summer was a bad thing. They seem to be focues on that goal so we don't even get incremental speed bumps, seems silly.

I should be able to by a Dual 2.2 or 2.5 Ghz G5 Right now. That's not too much to ask after 8 months. I mean really. And speaking of updates ATI has a 256 meg version of their Top of the line video card, why can't I buy that in my new 2 Ghz G5 right now?

Apple shouldn't have to redesign any part of the G5 system to bump the processor speed up a little.

And even it they only update every 12 months the prices should start dropping at the 8 month mark, or at least the month before the roll out of the new line.

[pgwalsh]

Who? Apple? The customers? If the customers, then go with the other choice? What is it? Apple.. Can they just bump CPU's if they don't have them? no...



Nope. I don't agree that they have stalled. They delivered the first version of this product 6 months ago. Fair enough you're entitled to your own opnion.But look at the timeline on MacRumors as suggested and most would expect them. That's what half the people in this forum are complaining about. Also it was 7 months ago and much longer if you idicate when announced and expected vers expected ship dates.



"much more solid" than what?Than not delivering new products when industry is especting. Doubt has been exspressed by analysts and mac head alike. Doubt aoubt Apples ability to keep up with the Joneses

[CrackedButter]

I've been waiting and waiting on this side of the pond since i sold my AluPB in January and got an emac, i've been on this since and it runs like a charm. I want a new laptop, I WANT A NEW LAPTOP. But, i'm not buying one until after September, that way i've waited for WWDC and the ParisExpo. I'm sure they will have either a new iBook or PowerBook by then, then I will buy whatever, i'm not waiting, not with my course turning in its second year and already agreeing to sell my emac at a price with handshake included.

I would like FAST and i would like cheaper, i've felt like moaning on these boards as well but i've sat here and watched everybody else say what I could say. I've been tempted and I've been tempted, Apple have even thrown open the refurb website in my face in the UK AND given me a £20 discount coupon which runs out at the end of this month. (If anybody wants it PM me)

I'm not tempted to budge, i want the laptop in september with maybe an ipod, the reason I want to hold out is that I would have a better appreciation for it and normally those sorts of things taste better when you have waited like a good little boy! :D

[ccuilla]

For me it's becuase I'm in the market to upgrade, and I know an update should be close. I want a new mac, I can afford to buy one now. I don't want to wait until June for the announcement, then September for it to ship.

Then buy one now. What's the problem with that?

I should be able to by a Dual 2.2 or 2.5 Ghz G5 Right now. That's not too much to ask after 8 months. I mean really.

Says who?

Apple shouldn't have to redesign any part of the G5 system to bump the processor speed up a little.

Probably true. But maybe, just maybe they're doing more than just bumping the processor speed.

And even it they only update every 12 months the prices should start dropping at the 8 month mark, or at least the month before the roll out of the new line.

Says who?

[ccuilla]

Than not delivering new products when industry is especting. Doubt has been exspressed by analysts and mac head alike. Doubt aoubt Apples ability to keep up with the Joneses

With regard to the PMG5 line, who is ahead of Apple right now? How far (performance and price)?

[pgwalsh]

With regard to the PMG5 line, who is ahead of Apple right now? How far (performance and price)?You missed the point. We're talking about consistency of updating product lines. When you have an expected product cycle and nothing happens, industry may think there's something wrong, that you're having production problems. Remember the weak sales and concerns for the PM line a couple months ago.

Apple has had a history of people being concerned about their survival for lack of a consistant products and the failure to gain marketshare. Their is so much detail and different aspects to discuss on this point alone. There computer line still has the taste of this, even though things were looking up when Mr. Jobs returned, market share hasn't improved much if any. Even today Analyst express doubt and the saving factor appears to be the iPod.

So with regards to my point, the lack of revisions may appear as a problem, which in many eyes would appear as a problem with the company and a reason not to purchase. Maybe not yours or most of the members of this forum, but to industry in general. Oh yes, I am concerned about my plaform of choice.

So yes.. update even if it isn't a major update... Give us a bit more confidence in Apple. Give those of us waiting for an update something before a year long cycle. Make your customers happy.

[aswitcher]

Appleinsider reports (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=416) on a conference call with Apple Specialists yesterday by Senior Director of Channel Sales and Distribution, Jeff Hansen.

According to Appleinsider, Hanson "provided hints that the company would be 'refreshing' many of its professional products during its World Wide Developers conference, set to take place in San Francisco during the final week of June."

Apple first released the PowerMac G5 at WWDC last year.

"Many of the professional products"...so what about the iMac whose sales are poorly?

And does this mean Apple's professional software?

At least it gives me some hope of a G5PB...

[Spagolli94]

Apple needs to refresh something...and soon.


Get rid of those ugly red lights on the white iPods...lets get some nice blue in there, or better yet, white.
Joe

hahaha... Right on man. I thought I was the only one who thought that!

[ccuilla]

You missed the point.

You missed MY point. You said that the concern about consistent updates stems from analyst concerns about Apple keeping up with the Jones'. So I asked which "Jones" has passed Apple?

I understand the whole issue of "consistent updates". I'm not nearly so obsessed with it as many here are. And it is an obsession. Apple is doing just fine. Are there SOME that would LIKE for Apple to have updated the PMG5. I understand this. But the underlying presumption seems to be that Apple is just sitting on their thumbs. I doubt this. Is it possible they have hit a snag? Perhaps. Will they overcome it? Very likely. The other underlying attitude of many people here seems to be one of "I wish it to be so, therefore it should be so." Things don't work that way.

[pgwalsh]

You missed MY point. You said that the concern about consistent updates stems from analyst concerns about Apple keeping up with the Jones'. So I asked which "Jones" has passed Apple? I'm referring to keeping up with regular product updates. Didn't realize I needed to spell it out for ya.. After all, that's what I've been talking about. I don't recall saying anything about competitiors surpassing apple, but I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong.

I understand the whole issue of "consistent updates". I'm not nearly so obsessed with it as many here are. And it is an obsession. Apple is doing just fine. Are there SOME that would LIKE for Apple to have updated the PMG5. I understand this. But the underlying presumption seems to be that Apple is just sitting on their thumbs. I doubt this. Is it possible they have hit a snag? Perhaps. Will they overcome it? Very likely. The other underlying attitude of many people here seems to be one of "I wish it to be so, therefore it should be so." Things don't work that way.Yes.. it's an obsession we can't wait... We sing the Apple Mantra every morning before anything else... :rolleyes: :D

I think your remarks are spot on... Some of us may feel like they're sitting on their thumbs, but I as you said, most people fear a snag. We don't want snags at Apple.. We want a smoth ship saling the tech seas.

There's an armada of us that would like to see Apple consistanly push forward and cursh the PC users in their path. We want market growth and the best products consitantly being poured through Apples doors. Some of us might even think of trading our girlfriends/boyfriends for our Macs. :eek:

[Dont Hurt Me]

You cant have updates if you are married to someone like Motorola, since they have gone nowhere where do you think Apple's sales have gone?. How the heck you update something when you dont have anything to update them to? G4 has spent another year with no progress, so this means Apple is going to do the same until they can kick out all those G4s. Fact is Apple is for the most part still pushing G4s from a year ago or more. They cant compete and Apple is just taking way to long to changeover to G5. Since Steve took over, marketshare has snowballed to under 2%. They are to arrogant doing what they want not what the customer or the market wants. They better be doing more then hinting because the world isnt going to wait on Apple or WWDC. once a year updates? :eek: That isnt going to cut it in a technology field that changes almost weekly.

[tsk]

Maybe Steve will have a Keynote speech that says - ALL MACS NOW FEATURE G5 PROCESSORS.

That would be badass.

Badass maybe, but about a snowball's chance in hell by my estimates.

[ghiangelo]

current processor clock cycles have been stuck at around the 3 Ghz level for both AMD and Intel. it has been this way for the last year. now with the prescott cpu Intel is having to rename the chips basically to conceal the actual clock speed which is not going to be breaking the 3Ghz barrier anytime soon (getting to 4+Ghz actually produces more prediction errors and weaker performance which Intel believes can be overcome with new compiler code and optimizations). IBM no doubt sees this as the opportunity to get caught up in the race. the problem is profiting from cycle increments in the meantime. Intel and AMD sell cpus in small increments. Intel marketed 3 Ghz cpus one month and then introduced 3.02 Ghz the next! thats what you call milking the yield. Apple has to do the same. the idea of jumping from 2Ghz as the top end cpu to a 3Ghz machine without trying to sell 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, or 2.8 Ghz units is not wise. all of the increments are profit potentials. no matter what promises were made about 3Ghz PPCs appearing at the end of summer, it's not going to happen. IBM will want to sell ALL the cycle yields they can get out of the chip. this means the refreshing of the professional line up is going to be stretched out over a longer period of time.

ghi

[Mikeyy]

Comon guys, quit your bitching, the G5 is still one of the fastest pc's available. Maybe thats why apple hasnt done an update.. theres no need right now. Hell even when the G5 hits a year old, its still gonna be a kick ass machine. Now the i-book/i-mac thats another story. Forget the e-mac, thats for welfare cases that need a new mac. The graphics performance on mac's compared to their pc counterparts also needs some work.. anyone try UT-2004 on a radon 9000? the pc flys, the mac blows..

[ccuilla]

the world isnt going to wait on Apple or WWDC.

Well, if the world wants PMG5s faster than what Apple offers right now, I guess the world will have to wait. If it doesn't like it...it has to go somewhere else. Those look like the only options from where I sit. Desirable or not, that's it. Whining and complaining seem unlikely to change the progress one iota. They'll get here when they get here. And if Apple goes out of business in the mean time, then so be it.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Well, if you want PMG5s faster than what they offer right now, I guess the world will have to. If it doesn't like it...go somewhere else. Those look like the only options from where I sit. Desirable or not, that's it. Whining and complaining seem unlikely to change the progress one iota.Well powermac isnt the only product they make but the dual powermac is the only product that competes with PCs. everything else doesnt and going somewhere else is just what the world has been doing for years. Please look at marketshare and yes it does matter. Perhaps Microsoft will help them again only this time Microsoft will say we want a windows version of OSX for bailing you out again Steve. :D

[aswitcher]

Badass maybe, but about a snowball's chance in hell by my estimates.

Ditto. Maybe July 2005...

[kirk26]

Man, those iBooks are soooo out of date! Whats it been? 3 months? <sarcasm>

[tsk]

You are right about not dropping prices for models being eight months old. On the other hand, as long as PowerBooks are selling well (and as far as I know they are), why should Apple drop prices and therefore reduce their earnings? Apple, like it or not, is not as dependent on other companies' price policies as are e.g. Dell, Toshiba, Sony etc. Secondly, PB updates are coming soon anyway.

Because if they reduced their price, maybe they could sell even more of them. And while it may not make a difference to the bottom line now, if they're putting more units out there, and if a % are people switching, they would be doing better for the long run.

[j_maddison]

current processor clock cycles have been stuck at around the 3 Ghz level for both AMD and Intel. it has been this way for the last year. now with the prescott cpu Intel is having to rename the chips basically to conceal the actual clock speed which is not going to be breaking the 3Ghz barrier anytime soon (getting to 4+Ghz actually produces more prediction errors and weaker performance which Intel believes can be overcome with new compiler code and optimizations). IBM no doubt sees this as the opportunity to get caught up in the race. the problem is profiting from cycle increments in the meantime. Intel and AMD sell cpus in small increments. Intel marketed 3 Ghz cpus one month and then introduced 3.02 Ghz the next! thats what you call milking the yield. Apple has to do the same. the idea of jumping from 2Ghz as the top end cpu to a 3Ghz machine without trying to sell 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, or 2.8 Ghz units is not wise. all of the increments are profit potentials. no matter what promises were made about 3Ghz PPCs appearing at the end of summer, it's not going to happen. IBM will want to sell ALL the cycle yields they can get out of the chip. this means the refreshing of the professional line up is going to be stretched out over a longer period of time.

ghi

I think there is alot of meritt in what you say. my only concern with that though, is that your ignoring a fundamental element of strategy, and thats the facilitation of step change. i agree that incremental change yields great profit rewards, but at the moment apple really need a step change and a jump straight to 3ghz would achieve that. i think where their strategy is looking a bit weak, is that they are ignoring consumer demand and being too internally focused in what they are putting out there. The market wants G5 across the rance, i understand this is not possible in the powerbook yet, but i think a 1.6ghz emac and i mac should have hit the market long ago. the pro range should have just been two models, a dual 1.8 and a dual 2.0ghz. if there are faster chips out there, i think apple should have put them into the pro range as soon as they were available, and used any surplus chips to bump up the consumer range.

jay

[AidenShaw]

Hehe.. And compare the 10 Mins batterylife with 4 hours... ;)


Cute.

The point though, is that the high power, bulky, short battery life laptop market is one of the biggest and fast growing segment of the laptop market.

And Apple has nothing to compete here.

These systems are used by people who want a nice, powerful PC - but want to put it in the desk drawer when they're not logged in.

They're used by office workers who can have a full-powered system at work - and take the same system home if they need to work on the weekend. (and like the home user, don't want to dedicate half their desk to a computer)

I don't want them - the midsized (14") system with builtin DVD and 6 hours of battery life is my sweet spot. I think the 12" under 3 pound market (another one with no Apple presence) is also good, but I don't want to make the screen size and feature sacrifices just to save less than a kilo.

But don't make fun of battery life - some people are always plugged in....

[AidenShaw]

the idea of jumping from 2Ghz as the top end cpu to a 3Ghz machine without trying to sell 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, or 2.8 Ghz units is not wise.

(And kudos to the j_maddison post here as well)


One thing that more frequent, smaller, updates would do is smooth out the sales flow.

If Apple had bumped the G5 a couple of hundred MHz every couple of months, people would be more inclined to buy them. (Oh, my 2.4 has been replaced by a 2.5 - no big deal.)

Today, though, G5 sales must be in the trough (we'll know next week) because people don't want a 1.8 or 2.0 when everybody expects that 3.0 might be here any week. ("Next Tuesday, I swear")

That's one advantage of the PC side - not only do you know the roadmaps, but you know that you won't be made to feel stupid because your big bucks purchase last week is either 40% cheaper this week or 40% faster for the same price.

[Dave the Great]

Man, those iBooks are soooo out of date! Whats it been? 3 months? <sarcasm>


No. I thought they were out in October of last year; that would make them 6 months old.

I am hoping that the PBs will get the G5 chip and the iBook will get the new G4 chips people were talking about a month or two ago. And I hope this is done soon, very, very soon.....

[aswitcher]

(And kudos to the j_maddison post here as well)
One thing that more frequent, smaller, updates would do is smooth out the sales flow.

If Apple had bumped the G5 a couple of hundred MHz every couple of months, people would be more inclined to buy them. (Oh, my 2.4 has been replaced by a 2.5 - no big deal.)



I dont agree. It should be cheaper for apple to make 1 or 2 jumps every six months, than lots of little ones throughout the year. If they can pull down the price by an annual release but really signficant hike then I would prefer to buy knowing I had just bought a machine that wouldn't be tocuhed for 12 months...

[adamfilip]

okay with the speeds you're expecting...you're a dreamer
and if you think apple will ever be including 2 gigs of ram standard,
you're on smack!!! :eek:


yes well im overly optimistic.. so..

[aswitcher]

yes well im overly optimistic.. so..

I must say everyone seems to buy Apple macs with minimuim ram because Apple are so pricey on their ram. What if they decide to be more aggressive about their costs and also to sell witrh decent minimuims to take bakc this market? Selling a machine with at least half a gig should be normal for Panther and iLife apps. G5s are different and you don't get near their potential until you get a gig, preferably 2 or even 4. Selling G5PMs with a minimum of 1 Gig for single processors and 2 Gig for dual makes allot of sense because thats what they will be configured to...

If Apple's new aggresive policy does soemthing like this I wouldn't be surprised, and if the ram prices were decent (because they bulk by just hi end ram - 512 sticks mostly, with a few 264s and 1 Gigs) then I would be happy...

[DreaminDirector]

I came across something interesting crawling through the web looking for info on the powerbook update and I found something over at macmall. I didn't know where to post it, so I started a new thread on it here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=67204). I didn't want to clutter up this thread. Anyway, macmall is running a shipping special on ibooks and powerbook until april 12 (monday) until 9pm. I'm as tired and as frustrated as the rest of you on this subject, but I found it interesting.

God, I'm really reading into things now....wishful thinking I guess....

[Zaty]

Powerbook G4s at WWDC ...

Can anyone say "BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!" :D

Do you have any evidence to support your statement? There are many different reasons I mentioned in my other posts in this thread to support my guess, so I'm not going to repeat myself. After thinking about it again, I can only see one reason why they could in fact wait until WWDC: The PPC 7447A. If they want to use it but cannot start produce PowerBooks utilizing PPC 7447A until late June or even early July, they would probably wait. Nevertheless, Apple rather updates the PowerBooks in the next 2-3 weeks.

[Palador]

Palador here, long time reader... first time poster.

I decided to chime in on this one for several reasons. Mostly because there are an increasing amount of people who think it's 'okay' for Apple to only release updates once per year. And that we dont 'need' updates because how often does the normal user use all their processing power.

You people are completely deluding yourselves. I'll say that right now, and on some level you must realize it... even if you are in Apple's PR damage control department, because that assertion is completely ridiculous.

You have to remember this is the COMPUTER industry. Not the microwave, refrigerator, or TV industry where people only buy these things once in a while. And only a small portion of people need new ones from year to year. For every person that bought the G5s to stay on top of computing technology there are at least 2 that are running early or mid G4s that are continually getting more and more outpaced. Try running Halo, iDVD and Limewire at once and even the mighty G5 is brought to its knees.

Not to mention the professionals here who without these machines wouldnt be able to make a living. No even the dual G5s apply a complicated filter to a 500 meg TIFF in less than a minute. That translates to lost productivity.

It's not so much the fact that I cant handle the delay, its the fact that they continue to charge $3000 for a machine that was announced in June and delivered August of 2003!

I see so many claims of 'we are still on top' and 'the G5 is still worth the money' and those statements simply arent true. Shortly after the G5 came out there were benchmarks challenging the 'fastest PC' statement. Now, Im not a Mac hater, but I dont hate PCs either so I wont say which I believed is faste but you have to admit that many of the tests showed that the Athlon 64 and Dual G5 were running neck and neck.

THAT WAS 8 MONTHS AGO PEOPLE! AMD and Intel have come out with a dozen processors since then. Granted they have hit a wall as well, but we are still seeing Prescotts, EE, and AMD FXs come out even if the clock speed isnt being pushed as much.. we are still seeing progess. And we havent seen a thing from Apple/IBM. Sure, you can make the arguement no one needs more speed... but thats all relative. Sure YOU might not need more speed, hell, 95% of the people out might not NEED it. But I WANT IT. And so do a hell of a lot of people. If the computer industry ran on that rationale the best selling computer would be a 1GHz Duron for $129 because it can run the internet, e-mail, word processing, etc just as well as everything else.

To the guy that said a comparable system for $3000 couldnt be built... POPPYCOCK! I could build one that beat it on EVERY system spec and saved close to a grand. Check out the forums on overclockers.com and check out some of the dual AMD rigs. Hell, if the first Athlon 64 could run neck and neck with a DUAL 2.0 GHz G5, you wouldnt even need a second processor. Just check out newegg for the latest and greatest from AMD.

Bottom line is that Apple is dropping the ball right now. I sold my Quicksilver G4 before Macworld and was going to get a G5 after the updates. When none came I realized that we were in for the long haul. Think about it... Steve would have announced the G5sthen if he could have shipped them in 16 weeks. But he didnt. I bought a 3.2Ghz Dell I got from a great deal on fatwallet.com in Jan and have been happy every since. It hasnt crashed, and while its not nearly as pretty as the G5... at least I dont have to search high and low for the software I need.

Apple has lost a customer here because of this. Maybe they'll get me back sometime around the Powerbook G5s, or maybe they wont... Funny thing is that I was a switcher prompted by the LCD iMacs and decided to get a Powermac instead. Guess I went back to the dark side...

[PlanB]

Palador here, long time reader... first time poster.

I decided to chime in on this one for several reasons. Mostly because there are an increasing amount of people who think it's 'okay' for Apple to only release updates once per year. And that we dont 'need' updates because how often does the normal user use all their processing power.

You people are completely deluding yourselves. I'll say that right now, and on some level you must realize it... even if you are in Apple's PR damage control department, because that assertion is completely ridiculous.

You have to remember this is the COMPUTER industry. Not the microwave, refrigerator, or TV industry where people only buy these things once in a while. And only a small portion of people need new ones from year to year. For every person that bought the G5s to stay on top of computing technology there are at least 2 that are running early or mid G4s that are continually getting more and more outpaced. Try running Halo, iDVD and Limewire at once and even the mighty G5 is brought to its knees.

Not to mention the professionals here who without these machines wouldnt be able to make a living. No even the dual G5s apply a complicated filter to a 500 meg TIFF in less than a minute. That translates to lost productivity.

It's not so much the fact that I cant handle the delay, its the fact that they continue to charge $3000 for a machine that was announced in June and delivered August of 2003!

I see so many claims of 'we are still on top' and 'the G5 is still worth the money' and those statements simply arent true. Shortly after the G5 came out there were benchmarks challenging the 'fastest PC' statement. Now, Im not a Mac hater, but I dont hate PCs either so I wont say which I believed is faste but you have to admit that many of the tests showed that the Athlon 64 and Dual G5 were running neck and neck.

THAT WAS 8 MONTHS AGO PEOPLE! AMD and Intel have come out with a dozen processors since then. Granted they have hit a wall as well, but we are still seeing Prescotts, EE, and AMD FXs come out even if the clock speed isnt being pushed as much.. we are still seeing progess. And we havent seen a thing from Apple/IBM. Sure, you can make the arguement no one needs more speed... but thats all relative. Sure YOU might not need more speed, hell, 95% of the people out might not NEED it. But I WANT IT. And so do a hell of a lot of people. If the computer industry ran on that rationale the best selling computer would be a 1GHz Duron for $129 because it can run the internet, e-mail, word processing, etc just as well as everything else.

To the guy that said a comparable system for $3000 couldnt be built... POPPYCOCK! I could build one that beat it on EVERY system spec and saved close to a grand. Check out the forums on overclockers.com and check out some of the dual AMD rigs. Hell, if the first Athlon 64 could run neck and neck with a DUAL 2.0 GHz G5, you wouldnt even need a second processor. Just check out newegg for the latest and greatest from AMD.

Bottom line is that Apple is dropping the ball right now. I sold my Quicksilver G4 before Macworld and was going to get a G5 after the updates. When none came I realized that we were in for the long haul. Think about it... Steve would have announced the G5sthen if he could have shipped them in 16 weeks. But he didnt. I bought a 3.2Ghz Dell I got from a great deal on fatwallet.com in Jan and have been happy every since. It hasnt crashed, and while its not nearly as pretty as the G5... at least I dont have to search high and low for the software I need.

Apple has lost a customer here because of this. Maybe they'll get me back sometime around the Powerbook G5s, or maybe they wont... Funny thing is that I was a switcher prompted by the LCD iMacs and decided to get a Powermac instead. Guess I went back to the dark side...


The Truth is my friend that your dell 3.2 isnt even close to matching a dual G5 with 2gb ram and this pc you can build for a grand less that will be about the same maybe the pc will run a little faster but its running a little faster than an 8month old machine..... so i hope you are happy with all that is windows.... but as a package the G5 gets real work done whilst the pc is just........ rubbish really...and then when the dual 3ghz machines come out then what is going to be anywhere near it???? nothing.... even the dual xeons will look slow comapared to it


ive got a pc and im not one of the "macs are the greatest thing" clan but os x panther is one hell of an operating system... and untill windoze start havin something decent then i wont go back


as for updates wwdc

powerbooks G5, new displays, and 3ghz powermacs.....

and if they dont well i will be gutted cos i want a new powerbook but am waiting so patiently

steve...... finger out of ass please

[aswitcher]

Palador here, long time reader... first time poster.


Sure. Ok. Bye bye now... :D

[toontra]

Sure. Ok. Bye bye now... :D

This is a perfect example of blind Apple loyalty which irritates almost everyone, even Mac users.

Palador takes the time & trouble to explain at lenth why he thinks Apple are dropping the ball on the updates (almost all of which I happen to agree with) and all you can do is respond with a juvenile insult. Grow up.

[spinko]

Palador, I feel the same.

[aswitcher]

This is a perfect example of blind Apple loyalty which irritates almost everyone, even Mac users.

Palador takes the time & trouble to explain at lenth why he thinks Apple are dropping the ball on the updates (almost all of which I happen to agree with) and all you can do is respond with a juvenile insult. Grow up.

Ouch. :eek:

Well first up I have NEVER owned a mac. Indeed I have rarely used them... So you are off on a big false assumption to begin with. I am planning to switch for a number of reasons mostly about Apple's quality hardware, software and especially OSX.

Second up, re Paladors little chat. It seems clear to me that Palador has read the arguments, and has decided that Apple's are over priced, don't depreciate fast enough, and aren't powerful enough for what they want. We have been reading this from several people for weeks now and it is getting very old. Palador comes out of the blue, has what I would describe as a rant...hardly a balanced discussion about the whole Apple experience of hardware and software, especially OSX. We have seen before that such an attitude is not likely to be open to change, their opinion is made up...as Paladors text clearly indicates. I would never jump on as a newbie and rant and expect anything constructive to come back...whcih brings me to

Palador is a "newbie" which brings some question re the autheticity of the claims and willingness to discuss the issues. Paladors approach was a rant and like others who have been posting, its seems a waste of time to discuss things further when they have slammed the door with their attitude and words.

As for the insult, saying "bye bye smiley" is hardly an insult. I am interested in reading posts that continue discussions, not newbies who rant off with opinions that only really say that because Apple doesn't do what the PC world does they are dropping the ball.

Anyway, enough time wasted on this. If you want to discuss the pros and cons, express opinions and prompt for discussion, then conversation can ensue. If you want to rant off and slam the door then please don't bother posting.

[dbauer]

A year between updates?!?!? WTF?!?!? WHAT MORONS!!! If there was another serious choice of computer for a graphics professional I'd so jump to it, Apple's heads are up their arses!

Maybe its just me but this whole "Apple needs to update every 2 months" thing is getting pretty old. I work for a very large bank with over 22000 desktops (windows unfortunetly). We refresh the companies desktops 1/3 a year for 3 years. That means that people who rec'd a new PC in 2001 will be getting new ones this year, yet they are still somehow productive with these 3 year old machines. Amazing really, when you think about it, the life cycle of Apple machines last twice as long, but yet everyone here still complains they haven't updated in a "whole" year. Seems silly to me, they are expected to keep up with PC update schedules just to cut a few seconds off of benchmarks.
I'd be more interested in peripheral updates rather than processor updates.
I'd like to see dual layer 16X DVD burners in June. Now that is cutting some time off my busy DVD pirating schedule. I've got to get these things back to blockbuster when my friends are done making copies! :D

[AidenShaw]

I dont agree. It should be cheaper for apple to make 1 or 2 jumps every six months, than lots of little ones throughout the year.

Not every update needs to be a major Stevenote...unless it's an ego thing.

Look at the Intel side, if you need a computer, you look. I got a dual Xeon Dell last fall - top end, 3.06 GHz, 512 KiB L2. (Choice of 2.4, 2.66, 2.8, or 3.06 GHz)

I ordered another one in December, top was now 3.06 GHz with 1MiB L3 cache. Just looked today (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/ws_650?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz&~tab=specstab#tabtop), and there are options for a 3.2 GHz with 1 MiB L3 and a 3.2 GHz with 2 MiB L3. (and the 2.4, 2.66, 2.8 and 3.06 are still available, either 1 MiB L3 or 512 KiB L2).

Oh, and there's now a 400 GB disk option.

Nothing else has changed. No big announcements. No fanfare. Just quiet advances to the latest components.



And choice - the first item in the menu is:


Intel® Xeon™ Processor 3.20GHz, 2MB L3 Cache [add $1,100]
Intel® Xeon™ Processor 3.20GHz, 1MB L3 Cache [add $850]
Intel® Xeon™ Processor 3.06GHz, 1MB L3 Cache [add $700]
Intel® Xeon™ Processor 2.80GHz, 1MB L3 Cache [add $450]
Intel® Xeon™ Processor 2.80GHz, 512K Cache [add $200]
Intel® Xeon™ Processor 2.66GHz, 512K Cache [add $100]
Intel® Xeon™ Processor 2.40GHz, 1MB L3 Cache [add $250]
Intel® Xeon™ Processor 2.40GHz, 512K Cache


Second item is whether you want the second processor....

(http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?cs=555&oc=WS650MTPAD&m_11=WXP1&c=us&l=en&s=biz)

[spinko]

Anyway, enough time wasted on this. If you want to discuss the pros and cons, express opinions and prompt for discussion, then conversation can ensue. If you want to rant off and slam the door then please don't bother posting.

thank's for doing so now !

[Dont Hurt Me]

It really is about choice and Apple will have none of that.
Palador make a nice post, same boat as you but still watching. If they dont do something big soon i will also jump fence but while waiting on Apple the PC side is advancing so this means ill get only more.

Its not good for a company to be arrogant and think that what ever they do we will follow. we are not lemmings. we want choices not more pods.

[silvergunuk]

Dual 3ghz ppc975 (Dual core). ATI X800 or NV40, PCI-Express, Hyper Transport 2.0. New Mouse/Keyboard.

[iLilana]

due to processor issues, there will be no speedbump or update announce until WWDC in which there will be:
-OSX Tiger (i still like Ocelot) Sept release date.
-iBook and powerbook speedbump.
-announcement of Sept or release date for dual 3Ghz.
-lots of bragging
-steve wears different color sweater
-me losing interest

apple needs to do something big...soon

[leftbanke7]

Palador is a "newbie" which brings some question re the autheticity of the claims and willingness to discuss the issues.

What exactly does being a Newbie have to do with having a decent amount of knowledge about the computer market? Not all computer savvy people have "Demi-God" status and I am sure that there are a whole lot more savvy folks on the outside of this Apple Forum than there are inside.

[pgwalsh]

Ouch. :eek:

Well first up I have NEVER owned a mac. Indeed I have rarely used them... So you are off on a big false assumption to begin with. I am planning to switch for a number of reasons mostly about Apple's quality hardware, software and especially OSX.

Doesn't negate the fact that your comment was obnoxious. The fact that you don’t even own a mac and you’d make that comment to someone on a Mac forum when you’re a wannabe mac user makes is stranger. It’s like your out to antagonize someone.

Palador makes many valid points. A few of us have stated the same sentiments in earlier posts with some variation. He wouldn’t have posted unless he cared and wanted to see a positive change in Apple.

[sparks9]

maybe they are skipping right to 3 ghz? SJ did promise 3 ghz "this time next year" ...


... Noone knows

[invaLPsion]

maybe they are skipping right to 3 ghz? SJ did promise 3 ghz "this time next year" ...


... Noone knows

Maybe the new powermacs will be announced at NAB but the dual 3GHz will not be shipping until WWDC? (2.2, 2.4, 2.6 (or 2.7), 3.0?) That way Steve could demo the dual 3 at WWDC and have more time for other announcements at the event.

I still think NAB will bring us something big... Just look at the other thread. "See Apple's latest technology." "Moving the industry" "Join us for a SPECIAL presentation."

[Hattig]

I don't get the people saying that Apple don't need up update more than once a year.

It makes no sense.

With the G5 Apple just about caught up with the PC world. The PC world is effectively on a constant update process. This means that by now, Apple is behind the curve, the prices haven't changed, and PCs look much more desirable again in terms of processing power, features, etc.

So what if people only upgrade once every 3 years? I'm sure you'd like to upgrade whenever you wanted and get something that wasn't 9 months out of date at that time because your supplier of computer systems decided that it wasn't good to up the specs a little to compete.

Updates needn't be big. They don't require new cases, or new motherboards. Just a faster processor on the motherboard. A larger HD. More memory. A faster DVD-R. A small upgrade, but more often. No-one will feel bad if they buy a computer then Apple release a much much faster computer a mere two months later for the same price, because it won't happen.

The only thing that Apple do right is frequent updates to the OS, much more frequently that Windows is updated.

If you can't upgrade a computer because there is no way to upgrade it (no faster processor available, which might have been the problem with the G5) then drop the price to compete and still sell systems.

[wdlove]

Maybe the new powermacs will be announced at NAB but the dual 3GHz will not be shipping until WWDC? (2.2, 2.4, 2.6 (or 2.7), 3.0?) That way Steve could demo the dual 3 at WWDC and have more time for other announcements at the event.

I still think NAB will bring us something big... Just look at the other thread. "See Apple's latest technology." "Moving the industry" "Join us for a SPECIAL presentation."

Is Apple or Steve actually going to have a Keynote at NAB? It starts a week from today. Then will end the day after our ever favorite day of Tuesday.

[spinko]

"The big question is after you do version one of all the cool consumer products, what is the next act?" he says. "Apple has always been great with breakthrough products, but never has been great with follow-ons.*Sony, for instance,*can crank out the tenth version of a Walkman just as easily as the first version and can mix-n-match features to make a product family. If Apple can learn this 'new-and-improved model' for selling consumer products -- instead of its historical tendency to do masterpieces for version*one (and no more) -- then it'll be fine for five 10, or 20 years.


says it all...

here the whole article
http://www.macminute.com/2004/03/03/capps

[joeconvert]

Yeah, that is great, except for literally every powermac buyer over the last year who has invested money in technology that is outdated (arguably if it isnt updated for a year, its old), while dell users are getting the newest everytime the buy. I just think its sad that I bought a 1.33 17 inch that is literally 8 months old for full price. That just makes me sick that apple thinks they can and should do this to their customers.

Then why did you buy it? Did Apple send a small security force to your home or office and give you the option of 8 month old technology or death? I agree that Apple's update schedule is laughable, but the only way they will change is if their user base votes with their cash.

[pgwalsh]

Then why did you buy it? Did Apple send a small security force to your home or office and give you the option of 8 month old technology or death? I agree that Apple's update schedule is laughable, but the only way they will change is if their user base votes with their cash.Possibly that he wanted to run OS X and not support the monopoly MS, but still wanted consumer grade applications and not have rely on the more difficult to use open source solutions.

So he could choose to be another MS guy with a Dell or be an Apple guy. He chose Apple, but he realizes that he could have done better with regard to hardware, but not run OS X. Sort of stuck in that situation where one company controls everything from top to bottom and you either get what they give you or go with something completely different. So you get what they give you and pay your premium and are happy that you didn't support a monopoly, but still acknowledge that you’re tied to one manufacture and your left with little to choose. You think to yourself, wouldn't it be great if I could use OS X on the latest Alienware setup or on a Dual Opteron 64 system, but wakeup realizing it's only a pipe dream...

So you voice your opinion on a Apple/Mac based site and some faithful mac people tell you to either shut up and deal with it or go to the other side (the dark side). So they’re completely content with the way Apple does business and they don’t mind Apples strategy and they like their niche products… They can keep it all to themselves. God help us if someone should want a little competition or have them push the envelope… These faithful all know Apple can do no wrong and will be perfectly happy with whatever Apple gives them. Throw a 1.5Ghz G4 on a potato and call it MacSpud and they’ll praise Jobs for being environmentally conscience. Forget the fact that they had the opportunity to do things different, but they didn’t and we are to blame for complaining that we want and expect more from a company we hope will be fruitful and capture a larger audience. Blah!

[Dont Hurt Me]

Potato Mac, why not its better then anything else they have come up in the past 8 months. This company is lost when marketshare has hit 1%. installed base can only be getting smaller and smaller. Just sell the OS to Microsoft and get it over.

[macdong]

Potato Mac, why not its better then anything else they have come up in the past 8 months. This company is lost when marketshare has hit 1%. installed base can only be getting smaller and smaller. Just sell the OS to Microsoft and get it over.

i don't udnerstand, what's your problem? :mad:

[LaMerVipere]

says it all...

here the whole article
http://www.macminute.com/2004/03/03/capps

that's great!

[aswitcher]

I don't get the people saying that Apple don't need up update more than once a year.

It makes no sense.

With the G5 Apple just about caught up with the PC world. The PC world is effectively on a constant update process. This means that by now, Apple is behind the curve, the prices haven't changed, and PCs look much more desirable again in terms of processing power, features, etc.

So what if people only upgrade once every 3 years? I'm sure you'd like to upgrade whenever you wanted and get something that wasn't 9 months out of date at that time because your supplier of computer systems decided that it wasn't good to up the specs a little to compete.

Updates needn't be big. They don't require new cases, or new motherboards. Just a faster processor on the motherboard. A larger HD. More memory. A faster DVD-R. A small upgrade, but more often. No-one will feel bad if they buy a computer then Apple release a much much faster computer a mere two months later for the same price, because it won't happen.

The only thing that Apple do right is frequent updates to the OS, much more frequently that Windows is updated.

If you can't upgrade a computer because there is no way to upgrade it (no faster processor available, which might have been the problem with the G5) then drop the price to compete and still sell systems.

The PC market has established a pattern of slightly improved processes every few months. The effect of this is that Apple has fallen further behind over the last 8 months or so. But in recent years Apple have pretty much always been behind from what I understand until the G5 appeared. Now Apple have a new deal with IBM and are getting seriously competative, but people seem upset they aren't following the same business model as intel and amd. There could be some really smart reasons that IBM has choosen to put big gaps between chip updates. They could be saving us all money. They could be preparing to make a jump straight to 3GHz which would be pretty impressive. They could working to R&D plans for new chips over the next few years rather than putting time into pretty insignficant speed bumps. So if IBM and Apple decide that the time between updates will be 10-12 months, then that could be a really good thing in the long run for them both. Apple is not about following the PC market its about setting new standards which they emulate, so I find it odd that people keep wanting them to be more like PCs and to measure them against those standards for release dates.

As for the rest of the Hardware, sure Apple could tweak things I suppose throughout a period when no speed jumps happen. But what additionally would that add to the cost of already expensive equipment if they have to run and test new harddrives, Dvd burners etc to announce a minor upgrade. I don't mind new models/revs getting four or five changes when they get released, especially if it helps keep the price down.

As for the pricing, they are still out to recoup their expenses. Keeping prices flat is their business model. If they sold everything off cheap prior or just after a new release, then chances are that would undervalue all their lines and intriduce spending habits where many would wait for the latest thing to buy the thing that just had been the latest thing at signficant discount and Apples model would fail. I dont think any of us would want that because then Apple would be forced to follow the pc market by lowering/cheapening its standards.

So its a different business model and I can see how it would keep the quality up and the prices as they are by not following the PC market business models. Its just different. No one if forcing people to buy new macs when an upgrade is due, and they can be assured that when they do that their new machine will remain a good investment for some time.

[visor]

this looks like I'll get a good show at wwdc. I mean honestly, one would want a good show if you travel some estimated 10000 miles just to see it, right?

[joeconvert]

Hmmm. Another person that seems to link Apple's inability to build new systems in a timely manner with the processor design/production of IBM.


The PC market has established a pattern of slightly improved processes every few months. The effect of this is that Apple has fallen further behind over the last 8 months or so. But in recent years Apple have pretty much always been behind from what I understand until the G5 appeared. Now Apple have a new deal with IBM and are getting seriously competative, but people seem upset they aren't following the same business model as intel and amd. There could be some really smart reasons that IBM has choosen to put big gaps between chip updates. They could be saving us all money. They could be preparing to make a jump straight to 3GHz which would be pretty impressive. They could working to R&D plans for new chips over the next few years rather than putting time into pretty insignficant speed bumps. So if IBM and Apple decide that the time between updates will be 10-12 months, then that could be a really good thing in the long run for them both. Apple is not about following the PC market its about setting new standards which they emulate, so I find it odd that people keep wanting them to be more like PCs and to measure them against those standards for release dates.

As for the rest of the Hardware, sure Apple could tweak things I suppose throughout a period when no speed jumps happen. But what additionally would that add to the cost of already expensive equipment if they have to run and test new harddrives, Dvd burners etc to announce a minor upgrade. I don't mind new models/revs getting four or five changes when they get released, especially if it helps keep the price down.

As for the pricing, they are still out to recoup their expenses. Keeping prices flat is their business model. If they sold everything off cheap prior or just after a new release, then chances are that would undervalue all their lines and intriduce spending habits where many would wait for the latest thing to buy the thing that just had been the latest thing at signficant discount and Apples model would fail. I dont think any of us would want that because then Apple would be forced to follow the pc market by lowering/cheapening its standards.

So its a different business model and I can see how it would keep the quality up and the prices as they are by not following the PC market business models. Its just different. No one if forcing people to buy new macs when an upgrade is due, and they can be assured that when they do that their new machine will remain a good investment for some time.

[AidenShaw]

Hmmm. Another person that seems to link Apple's inability to build new systems in a timely manner with the processor design/production of IBM.

IMHO something's off here...

Historically, once production starts on a chip it is usual that faster chips appear over time. The longer a process runs, the better it gets and more faster chips come out.

The original story kind of assumes that IBM has one line making 1.6 GHz chips, another making 1.8 GHz chips, and a third making 2.0 GHz chips.

That's not the case - there's only one line, but due to manufacturing variability some chips are faster than others. When the chips come off the line they are tested, and put into various "bins" (a process often called "binning"):


Dead - these chips don't work at all, or only at low frequencies
1.6 - these chips work at some frequency at least a bit above 1.6 GHz
1.8 - These work at above 1.8
2.0 - These work at above 2.0
Wow! - these are a few chips that work at significantly above 2.0


As the fab gets more experience, the percentage of chips in the faster bins grows. In fact, you'll find that after a while few of the chips are in the "1.6" bin - so that they'll label "1.8" chips with "1.6" and sell them for 1.6 prices. Sometimes, the percentage of chips in the "Wow!" bin is high enough that a 2.2 chip or even faster will be "introduced".

So, are we to believe that after nearly a year of making PPC970 chips - that IBM's fab hasn't made the normal progress?

If they haven't improved yields, then that's pretty damning. (And the fact that the only PPC970 product from IBM itself is only the 1.6 GHz chip could mean that the chip is unstable and is not improving.)

(Note that the 90nm chips would be a separate line....)

[aswitcher]

If they haven't improved yields, then that's pretty damning. (And the fact that the only PPC970 product from IBM itself is only the 1.6 GHz chip could mean that the chip is unstable and is not improving.)

(Note that the 90nm chips would be a separate line....)

What if they are stock piling them to make sure that a signficant number of machines are immediately available and so we dont suffer a 2 or 3 month delay after announcement...?

[Hiroshige]

At the Apple store, I just went a couple of steps into buying dual G5 Xserve (90 nm G5).
It says
Items you have selected
Part No. Est Ship
Xserve G5 Dual 2GHz Z08Y 5-7 week


Even the single processor 2 Ghz Xserves, which Apple announced are available, have the 5-7 week delivery time.
Dudes, it looks like they can't even get yields up on the 90 nm 2 Ghz to a point where they can reliably sell the machine.
Makes me very pessimistic about even seeing a 2.5 Ghz machine. This is going to be a very long, painful wait.
Intel is having big problems with 90 nm as well. Too bad Apple couldn't take advantage of that to catch up and surpass.
It's possible we could see a 1.6 Ghz G5 iMac sooner. Maybe they can get adequate yields of the 90 nm G5 at 1.6 Ghz. [Due to heat concerns, I wouldn't expect to see a 130 nm G5 in an iMac.]

[aswitcher]

At the Apple store, I just went a couple of steps into buying dual G5 Xserve (90 nm G5).
It says
Items you have selected
Part No. Est Ship
Xserve G5 Dual 2GHz Z08Y 5-7 week

SNIP


Could it be that they just have a huge demand for Xserves and consequently inventory is low? That would be a good sign...

[Hiroshige]

If they say during the Q2 results conference call that Xserve demand is huge, then you are probably right.

[LaMerVipere]

Apple has to do something big, and something FAST to rekindle the G5 flame, because at the moment, it is all but burnt out.

I remember after the PM G5 came out, it was well known throughout even the PC world that Apple now had something huge and powerful to compete with.

Case(s) in point, in the first week of my video class where we use iMacs, the teacher announced that the school would be purchasing G5's for the vid editing room, and in a class full of windows people (and not even tech obsessed windows people, mind you) they all immediately were like "oh hell yea man, that apple from the commercial, where it like blows through the side of the house, it's fast as hell!"

Just last week i was talking with my friend (i convinced her to switch, and she is now the proud owner of a 12" PowerBook G4) about the PowerMacs and one of the same windows people overheard and actually asked "what's a G5?" Add to that, the fact that my school was waiting until PM G5's hit Rev. B before they bought them, so we are still using iMacs.

Apple has lost the "WOW!" factor, and has lost sales, and at this point, it may be irreversible.

[aswitcher]

Apple has to do something big, and something FAST to rekindle the G5 flame, because at the moment, it is all but burnt out.
SNIP

Apple has lost the "WOW!" factor, and has lost sales, and at this point, it may be irreversible.

Well yeah...but I don't think its that gloomy.

iMacs and Powerbooks are probably suffering worse that the PMs at the moment.

Give Steve until WWDC end of June and then we can discuss whether the wait was worth it before predicting Apples doom...

[stefanski]

Well, I was sooo close to buy a G5, but I was hoping to get a faster machine for less money. Didn't happen. Apple has lost the momentum and they missed the chance to make something out of their 20th birthday. You can't just release a few more IPODs in fancy colours to keep up with the market. Here in Australia a G5 is still so much overpriced, it's a shame. Dealers have started offering things like digital cameras and software to keep the buyers coming. It's scary to see how quickly Apple has fallen behind with price and techology again. A true 64bit OS and a 2.5 GHz G5 would be the least to keep up with the world. Nope. Nothing like it happened. In fact, check out the apple webpage www.apple.com.au. They are still listing the long gone Macworld SF as latest news. How much worse can it get?

I'm frustrated to say the least.

The US$ was falling and PC prices have reached new lows. Has Apple dropped the price? Nope. They still expect me to pay AU$5299 for a dual G5 2Ghz in its basic configuration with outdated graphics capability.

:mad:

[aswitcher]

I'm frustrated to say the least.

The US$ was falling and PC prices have reached new lows. Has Apple dropped the price? Nope. They still expect me to pay AU$5299 for a dual G5 2Ghz in its basic configuration with outdated graphics capability.

:mad:

Apple Australia is a slightly different animal. The papers and magz have been hammering them about their pricing for a few months now. This is more an issue of profiteering because they have a controlled market where everyone has to buy from them in Australia. If retailers could buy even retail from the States it would likely be worth it for high end machines. If they could buy direct wholesale, Apple Australia would sell almost no machines and just be there for tech support.

I am hoping that WWDC sees new machines across almost the entire range which in turn leads to more reasonable prices in Australia with new machines as the excuse...2 more months

[stefanski]

You're really thinking that 2 more months is a short time frame to wait for new products? Well, think again. 2 bloody months is a very, very long time to wait just to come up with something that will not be able to catch up with Intels 3GHZ fleet. Don't tell me they will release anything close to 3GHz in the G5 line. That's as likely as winning the powerball. The number of fans would exceed the number of chips used on the entire board.

If I was to "switch", it would cost me around AU$12200 and that doesn't include any "special" software. Just a pumped up dual G5 with 1GB of RAM and 2x250GB SATA and a decent video card to power the 23" display. Ok, the Ipod would be included as well. Just discovered that you can get a $800 mail in rebate. What a ripper!!

Strange enough these mail in rebates are valid until 26 June... When was that dev conference again? What? 2 days later? Must be coincidence ;-)

Go Apple!
:mad:

[stefanski]

Before I get flamed:
I'm really keen to switch. The fact that I can't afford it is what makes me soooo angry. Believe me, I'll be the first to buy the newest G5 when it hits the streets. Even if it is only a small increase in speed. The fact that one can't upgrade without buying a new system is probably the biggest reason why people (including me) are waiting anxiously for news from Apple.

[aswitcher]

You're really thinking that 2 more months is a short time frame to wait for new products? Well, think again. 2 bloody months is a very, very long time to wait just to come up with something that will not be able to catch up with Intels 3GHZ fleet. Don't tell me they will release anything close to 3GHz in the G5 line. That's as likely as winning the powerball. The number of fans would exceed the number of chips used on the entire board.

Ok, well no offense, but for the time being I'll take the CEO of Apple's word that they will appear or at least be announce for the US summer over yours, which I think is better than Powerball. Unless of course you have some engineering data etc to contradict his claim...



If I was to "switch", it would cost me around AU$12200 and that doesn't include any "special" software. Just a pumped up dual G5 with 1GB of RAM and 2x250GB SATA and a decent video card to power the 23" display. Ok, the Ipod would be included as well. Just discovered that you can get a $800 mail in rebate. What a ripper!!

Strange enough these mail in rebates are valid until 26 June... When was that dev conference again? What? 2 days later? Must be coincidence ;-)

Go Apple!
:mad:

Wow. Thats some configuration you're after. What are you upgrading from?

Yeah, as for the 26 June date, if you read most of the posts on release dates you'll see that WWDC on 28 June is regarded by many as the likely date because of that offer and other indicators...

[stefanski]

So Steve has promised 3GHz by Summer? Can't remember seeing that statement (in which he would mention a date or time frame for a +3GHz G5). But anyway, I would be more than happy to get something like hat in June. So if you take his word over mine, I'll survive ;-).

Currently working on a dual 2.8GHz machine with 20" flat screen, but that's not really the point here. I just want to make sure that the money is invested into a top notch solution. The fact that you can't upgrade a G5 by simply swapping CPUs is the biggest worry for me. Yes, I know that Intel has many different incompatible CPU designs, but at least you can upgrade within the same family of CPUs without having to buy a completely new machine whenever you want more speed.

Why is it that Apple can't make this possible? I assume they just don't want to. Probably because it would reveal too much and people would start overclocking exisiting G5s which seems to be impossible at this stage anyway.

Enough said. I'll wait and see what good stuff comes from Apple soon. (Hopefully)

[aswitcher]

So Steve has promised 3GHz by Summer? Can't remember seeing that statement (in which he would mention a date or time frame for a +3GHz G5). But anyway, I would be more than happy to get something like hat in June. So if you take his word over mine, I'll survive ;-).


Well I take it your new. 2003's WWDC has the claim. Check Apple's site for a quicktime stream of it.


Currently working on a dual 2.8GHz machine with 20" flat screen, but that's not really the point here. I just want to make sure that the money is invested into a top notch solution. The fact that you can't upgrade a G5 by simply swapping CPUs is the biggest worry for me. Yes, I know that Intel has many different incompatible CPU designs, but at least you can upgrade within the same family of CPUs without having to buy a completely new machine whenever you want more speed.

Why is it that Apple can't make this possible? I assume they just don't want to. Probably because it would reveal too much and people would start overclocking exisiting G5s which seems to be impossible at this stage anyway.


Don't know. Qualility control? Warranty issues? Business model?

If you buy when the new rev comes out (Hopefully early July/Agust for Australia) then given the lag between updates it seems fair to assume it will be the leader (or next best depending on what you get) for a good 6-12 months...

+ there will hopefully be new form factor LCDs as well with hopefully better refresh and resolutions...for the same money one presumes.

[AidenShaw]

Intel is having big problems with 90 nm as well.


Can you cite any current articles on that?

The Intel 90nm CPUs (Prescott) are easy to find - over the counter as well as in systems.

Any Pentium 4 with a 1 MiB L2 cache is a 90 nm Prescott. (The ones with the 1 MiB and 2 MiB L3 caches (like the P4EE) are 130 nm based on the Xeon.)

(http://developer.intel.com/design/pentium4/prodbref/)
1-MB L2 Advanced Transfer Cache, 16-KB L1 data cache, and Streaming SIMD Extensions 3 (SSE3) are available with speeds 3.40E, 3.20E, 3E, 2.80E and 2.80A GHz.

These Pentium 4 processors are based on Intel's next generation 90 nm process technology. The 90 nm process technology includes next generation transistor advantages, such as strained silicon lattice to deliver faster transistors and increase performance.

At one local store, a 3 GHz 90 nm is sitting on the shelf for $249 (http://www.centralcomputer.com/emerchant/products.asp?pline=HCPUI)

Dell systems offer 90nm in their BTO menus (http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?cs=555&oc=WS360DTPAD&m_11=WXP1&m_1=3D281&c=us&l=en&s=biz).

newegg.com has 90nm in stock (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?DEPA=0&submit=manufactory&catalog=343&manufactory=1157&description=&page=2&listStyle=0)


Maybe the Intel 90 nm rollout was slower than expected, but it looks like they're widely available today.

[Hiroshige]

Can you cite any current articles on that?

The Intel 90nm CPUs (Prescott) are easy to find - over the counter as well as in systems.

Any Pentium 4 with a 1 MiB L2 cache is a 90 nm Prescott. (The ones with the 1 MiB and 2 MiB L3 caches (like the P4EE) are 130 nm based on the Xeon.)

(http://developer.intel.com/design/pentium4/prodbref/)


At one local store, a 3 GHz 90 nm is sitting on the shelf for $249 (http://www.centralcomputer.com/emerchant/products.asp?pline=HCPUI)

Dell systems offer 90nm in their BTO menus (http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?cs=555&oc=WS360DTPAD&m_11=WXP1&m_1=3D281&c=us&l=en&s=biz).

newegg.com has 90nm in stock (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?DEPA=0&submit=manufactory&catalog=343&manufactory=1157&description=&page=2&listStyle=0)

Maybe the Intel 90 nm rollout was slower than expected, but it looks like they're widely available today.



You want an article? Many articles have been written about this on tomshardware.com and theinquirer.org. Here is one from the inquirer: "Intel's Prescott may be monumental step back for chipkind" http://www.theinquirer.org/?article=13851


Here's a Tom's Hardware quote and article:
"Despite 90 nm process technology, larger caches, 13 new instructions and changes in its NetBurst architecture, the Prescott does not bring down the house."
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/index.html

Here is a quote from another article on tomshardware:
"And the Pentium 4 Prescott is not particularly helping Intel's reputation with a TDP of over a hundred Watts and with no tangible advantages compared to its predecessor, the Northwood."


The Intel 90 nm took a long time to come out (as you admit) and they are very power hungry, very hot and if you want a quiet system you have to pay big $ for a cooling solution.
Offering a 3 Ghz Prescott on those websites really doesn't impress me because 3 Ghz has been out for a very long time at 130 nm and the 90 nm are benchmarked as no faster.
Aidenshaw, I am sick of your trolling.

[macdong]

Before I get flamed:
I'm really keen to switch. The fact that I can't afford it is what makes me soooo angry. Believe me, I'll be the first to buy the newest G5 when it hits the streets. Even if it is only a small increase in speed. The fact that one can't upgrade without buying a new system is probably the biggest reason why people (including me) are waiting anxiously for news from Apple.


as for as PowerMac is concerned, i say give them time.
you need to remember this is a jump of vendor, not just the processor, for Apple.
they need to redesign the whole thing.
Apple computer is not made like regular PCs, which are parts thrown together.
it needs to run cool and "quiet", be beautiful and elegant.

[AidenShaw]

You want an article?

Had you said "Intel's 90nm Prescott isn't a big leap", those articles would support you.

Intel's shipping lots of 90nm chips...they're not having "big problems" with the 90 nm process.

The term "ramp up" is always relevant, every new process takes a while to get up to speed.

While maybe you meant to diss the Prescott - your statement about the entire 90 nm fab is way too general, and deserves to be clarified.

[Hattig]

Had you said "Intel's 90nm Prescott isn't a big leap", those articles would support you.

Intel's shipping lots of 90nm chips...they're not having "big problems" with the 90 nm process.

The term "ramp up" is always relevant, every new process takes a while to get up to speed.

While maybe you meant to diss the Prescott - your statement about the entire 90 nm fab is way too general, and deserves to be clarified.

How many 3.4GHz 90nm Prescotts do you see available?

Not many I'm sure.

Intel IS having problems. If you read any decent PC hardware site you'll see that many people have this opinion, and the evidence is pretty damning.

Intel can make 2.4 and 2.8GHz Prescotts without a problem. 3GHz have appears about a month or so after the launch date. 3.2's are damned rare still.

Considering that this is at 90nm, and Northwood got up to 3.2GHz without any problems, what is the whole point of Prescott? Maybe to reduce per-chip cost, as the die will be smaller. This is at the expense of 20W or more of extra power consumption over Northwood, and LOWER performance at the same clock speed - so why not just do a straight shrink of the Northwood core and get an even smaller die and higher performance? This isn't a case of "isn't a great leap", it is a case of "stepping backwards". SSE3 isn't that major either and won't improve things over time. Also reviews have shown that Northwood still overclocks to higher speeds than Prescott does.

Intel were meant to be shipping 90nm processors in Q3 last year. As both Prescott and Dothan (P-M 90nm) are massively delayed, this doesn't suggest that it is processor design issues that are to blame.

I'm sure that Intel has solved the problem by now though (or fixed it enough). There is meant to be a D0 stepping of Prescott that solves some of the heat issues, and hence will be able to clock higher. Intel will be at 4GHz by the end of the year with Prescott.

However Intel is not shipping "lots" of 90nm processors for being 6 months into the new process ramp. AMD is sitting pretty with processors that run at only 2/3rds the speed yet outperform Intel's best, and they have headroom (with Socket 939 which will increase performance by 10% at the same clock, and with 90nm later this year to get the core to 2.8GHz or so).

Of course, IBM and AMD went with SOI. Intel did not. This looks like a miscalculation by Intel at the moment - they went from looking like being the first player to hit 90nm released processors to being 3rd or 4th. IBM beat them with the 90nm 970FX, albeit in small quantities and/or slower speeds!

[AidenShaw]

IBM beat them with the 90nm 970FX, albeit in small quantities and/or slower speeds!

You are right, there are lots of stories about Intel.


A search for "intel 90nm problems" on google gets lots of hits, some of them saying "no problems" like:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=14923


The common thread is that the current Prescott chip tapeout has some issues, particularly with heat, but 90nm itself isn't the main issue. Intel is even bringing 65nm online (http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/intel-65nm/)


And really, what's the difference between Prescott and the 970FX on this?

The 970FX is rare, and is trickling out in systems running at the same clock as the 130nm 970. IBM isn't even using the 970FX in its only 970 offering.


There's also a story that the 90nm Opteron will need 80 amps of power !! http://www.overclockers.com/tips00501/ So not even AMD is getting a free ride on the new process.

So, I'll concede that it looks like there's a rocky road to 90 nm all around, even though product is available.

[wdlove]

this looks like I'll get a good show at wwdc. I mean honestly, one would want a good show if you travel some estimated 10000 miles just to see it, right?

If you indeed travel the estimated 10000 miles to WWDC, then you should get a prize for traveling the farthest. I don't think that you will be disappointed.

[timmyOtool]

current processor clock cycles have been stuck at around the 3 Ghz level for both AMD and Intel. it has been this way for the last year. now with the prescott cpu Intel is having to rename the chips basically to conceal the actual clock speed which is not going to be breaking the 3Ghz barrier anytime soon (getting to 4+Ghz actually produces more prediction errors and weaker performance which Intel believes can be overcome with new compiler code and optimizations). IBM no doubt sees this as the opportunity to get caught up in the race. the problem is profiting from cycle increments in the meantime. Intel and AMD sell cpus in small increments. Intel marketed 3 Ghz cpus one month and then introduced 3.02 Ghz the next! thats what you call milking the yield. Apple has to do the same. the idea of jumping from 2Ghz as the top end cpu to a 3Ghz machine without trying to sell 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, or 2.8 Ghz units is not wise. all of the increments are profit potentials. no matter what promises were made about 3Ghz PPCs appearing at the end of summer, it's not going to happen. IBM will want to sell ALL the cycle yields they can get out of the chip. this means the refreshing of the professional line up is going to be stretched out over a longer period of time.

ghi
I think that they will use all of those points, just not in the same computer. They need to get to a high enough level with the powermac, then they can use those other point on consumer level products. Apple markets little different than most companies (for better or for worse)

[Urdam]

They shoud hurry it up

[jaw04005]

Do you really think in the PC world huge speed bumps happen overnight? When the Pentium M was announced a year ago it was at 1.4 GHz. The fastest P M available right now runs at 1.7 GHz. That's a 300 MHz increase in a year. The top end Pentium 4m runs at 3.2 GHz, up from 2.6 or 2.8 GHz a year ago. If Apple brings out a PB 17" at 1.5 GHz (up from 1 GHz), that's not too bad an improvement if you think about it.

Yeah I agree with you except the fact that the Pentium M hasn't been out for the past 3 years, like our G4 chip has.

[jaw04005]

What if they are stock piling them to make sure that a signficant number of machines are immediately available and so we dont suffer a 2 or 3 month delay after announcement...?

Lets not even get our hopes up on that scenario. When was the last time Apple announced a flagship product and then shipped that product within anything less than a minimum of 4 weeks?

And for the people like us, its usually alot longer--considering that Apple is going to cater (and rightfully so) to corporate entities like Virginia Tech, etc.

[aswitcher]

And for the people like us, its usually alot longer--considering that Apple is going to cater (and rightfully so) to corporate entities like Virginia Tech, etc.

From what I understand they are already shipping xserves to Virginia Tech (and I guess other interested institutions).

There are also rumors of big us government buying of macs.

I am sure last year and re the xserve and ipon mini this year, they have had plenty of complaints about availability and so maybe to move more of the current stock and to not disappoint so badly in the future they are getting organised and stock piling. So I have hope they may have learnt their lessons...

[jaw04005]

Palador here, long time reader... first time poster.

I decided to chime in on this one for several reasons. Mostly because there are an increasing amount of people who think it's 'okay' for Apple to only release updates once per year. And that we dont 'need' updates because how often does the normal user use all their processing power.

You people are completely deluding yourselves. I'll say that right now, and on some level you must realize it... even if you are in Apple's PR damage control department, because that assertion is completely ridiculous.

You have to remember this is the COMPUTER industry. Not the microwave, refrigerator, or TV industry where people only buy these things once in a while. And only a small portion of people need new ones from year to year. For every person that bought the G5s to stay on top of computing technology there are at least 2 that are running early or mid G4s that are continually getting more and more outpaced. Try running Halo, iDVD and Limewire at once and even the mighty G5 is brought to its knees.

Not to mention the professionals here who without these machines wouldnt be able to make a living. No even the dual G5s apply a complicated filter to a 500 meg TIFF in less than a minute. That translates to lost productivity.

It's not so much the fact that I cant handle the delay, its the fact that they continue to charge $3000 for a machine that was announced in June and delivered August of 2003!

I see so many claims of 'we are still on top' and 'the G5 is still worth the money' and those statements simply arent true. Shortly after the G5 came out there were benchmarks challenging the 'fastest PC' statement. Now, Im not a Mac hater, but I dont hate PCs either so I wont say which I believed is faste but you have to admit that many of the tests showed that the Athlon 64 and Dual G5 were running neck and neck.

THAT WAS 8 MONTHS AGO PEOPLE! AMD and Intel have come out with a dozen processors since then. Granted they have hit a wall as well, but we are still seeing Prescotts, EE, and AMD FXs come out even if the clock speed isnt being pushed as much.. we are still seeing progess. And we havent seen a thing from Apple/IBM. Sure, you can make the arguement no one needs more speed... but thats all relative. Sure YOU might not need more speed, hell, 95% of the people out might not NEED it. But I WANT IT. And so do a hell of a lot of people. If the computer industry ran on that rationale the best selling computer would be a 1GHz Duron for $129 because it can run the internet, e-mail, word processing, etc just as well as everything else.

To the guy that said a comparable system for $3000 couldnt be built... POPPYCOCK! I could build one that beat it on EVERY system spec and saved close to a grand. Check out the forums on overclockers.com and check out some of the dual AMD rigs. Hell, if the first Athlon 64 could run neck and neck with a DUAL 2.0 GHz G5, you wouldnt even need a second processor. Just check out newegg for the latest and greatest from AMD.

Bottom line is that Apple is dropping the ball right now. I sold my Quicksilver G4 before Macworld and was going to get a G5 after the updates. When none came I realized that we were in for the long haul. Think about it... Steve would have announced the G5sthen if he could have shipped them in 16 weeks. But he didnt. I bought a 3.2Ghz Dell I got from a great deal on fatwallet.com in Jan and have been happy every since. It hasnt crashed, and while its not nearly as pretty as the G5... at least I dont have to search high and low for the software I need.

Apple has lost a customer here because of this. Maybe they'll get me back sometime around the Powerbook G5s, or maybe they wont... Funny thing is that I was a switcher prompted by the LCD iMacs and decided to get a Powermac instead. Guess I went back to the dark side...

I'm sure you were aware that you were going to get bashed when you say anything negative about Apple. I agree with most of what you say. People choose Apple now because of primarily OS X. You don't go typically looking for a Mac because of hardware features, the G5 may be a slight exception. The truth is the Macintosh market is becoming increasingly a "nitch" market for creative professionals, consumers who like "cool stuff" :), and Unix/Open Source fans. This can be observed with Apple's increased focus on digital lifestyle products like the iPod and iTunes Music Store. Apple has the loyality, and knows no matter how upset their customers get or how long their customers have to wait for product revisions---for the most part they are still going to be their customers and buy their products.

[fener]

Look here:

The wait for new 12" 1GHz PowerBook G4/Combos moved from 'Same Day' delivery to 7-10 days this Saturday morning at The Apple Store.


Congrats to everyone.

The wait is over.
Getting my Powerbook by Friday, if they are available by then. :D

[Soire]

fener- You poor deluded fool.

Let's just say that if Powerbooks came out before PowerMacs, there's gonna be some unpleasent people around here.

[aswitcher]

fener- You poor deluded fool.

Let's just say that if Powerbooks came out before PowerMacs, there's gonna be some unpleasent people around here.

I wont be one of them....I want my G5PB! :mad:

[Ozi]

I am going to get a new iBook... i currently have the "Lombard" G3 PB, and i need to update. I can get the educational discount (tertiary student) and get THAT at 53% of the price... as my dad can salary package it... So the current iBook 12" (http://store.apple.com/133-622/WebObjects/australiastore.woa/80605/wo/Ec2qLxMHM32w3r3b6MF2DqX9tVO/0.0.7.1.0.5.21.1.1.1.0.0.0.1.0) offered at Apple australia I can get at $900 instead of $1900! :D

My question is this: Could all you wise and clever Mac veterans tell me if there will be an upgrade to the ibook range? I dont desperately want a G5 or anthin; the G4 is fine, but is it likely that they will do a "product refresh" on these iBooks?

thanks... ~ozi

[aswitcher]

My question is this: Could all you wise and clever Mac veterans tell me if there will be an upgrade to the ibook range? I dont desperately want a G5 or anthin; the G4 is fine, but is it likely that they will do a "product refresh" on these iBooks?

thanks... ~ozi

ibooks were one of the last things updated so I don't expect one before other things have been updated...

I recommend you get more than 256 MB of RAM when you get your ibook if you are making such a saving. Its only $80 more to get 384 and it all helps.

Also, if you a big music fan, downloader or plan to do lots of digital video etc etc, then the Harddisk is another cheap upgrade to 40 for $44 or 60 for $132
Also good if you plan to dual boot you machine with linux.

Bluetooth and Airport are also possibilities. If you are at uni and they have wifi then that might be worth thr $200 bucks, because I don't think you cna get it later.

Also Applecare is worth considering to make sure you get 3 years cost free repairs...

[Zaty]

Look here:

The wait for new 12" 1GHz PowerBook G4/Combos moved from 'Same Day' delivery to 7-10 days this Saturday morning at The Apple Store.


Congrats to everyone.

The wait is over.
Getting my Powerbook by Friday, if they are available by then. :D

Seriously, this could be the sign we have been waiting for so long! New PowerBooks tomorrow!?

fener- You poor deluded fool.

Let's just say that if Powerbooks came out before PowerMacs, there's gonna be some unpleasent people around here.

This a very likely scenario, I'm afraid.

[Palador]

To all the critics of my post... I wasnt 'bashing' Apple. Im not here to tout the benefits of Intel, Dell, or Windoze... Im here to express my opinion on what Apple is doing WRONG and how they lost me as a customer. OS X is a much better operating system, but it doesnt change the fact that the hardware its running on is outdated.

Intel is certainly having problems with their 90nm process, but at least they are making progress. 3.4GHz Prescotts are out and available through many outlets. They also are making regular jumps with their Mobile and Celeron lines. In comparison Apple is selling yesterday's technology in the form of G3 and G4 notebooks and playing catchup.

However, I dont think Intel deserves any credit... the overclocking community has nicknamed Prescott, 'PressHot' because they are insanely hot and wont overclock like the Northwood. I believe the company that IS doing things right is AMD. Like I said in my previous post, one Athlon 64 was giving the G5 quite a run for its money and there has been progress since those mid summer benchmarks we all read about on PC Magazine's website. Whereas from Apple there has not been a thing. It astounds me that they werent able to get the Xserves to AT LEAST 2.2GHz... hell, give those bad boys to an overclocker with a more user friendly motherboard and I guarantee SOME would be stable at 10-15% increases.

I plan to go back to Apple once they get their act together and not a moment before. I think everyone will have a rude awakening when Job's announces 2.4Ghz G5s in June... shipping in August.

[Ozi]

I recommend you get more than 256 MB of RAM when you get your ibook if you are making such a saving. Its only $80 more to get 384 and it all helps.

Also, if you a big music fan, downloader or plan to do lots of digital video etc etc, then the Harddisk is another cheap upgrade to 40 for $44 or 60 for $132
Also good if you plan to dual boot you machine with linux.

Bluetooth and Airport are also possibilities. If you are at uni and they have wifi then that might be worth thr $200 bucks, because I don't think you cna get it later.

Also Applecare is worth considering to make sure you get 3 years cost free repairs...

Thanks mate. I will be getting the extra ram... I will be choosing the max possible, so 128+512 = 640 meg. Nothing huge, but more than adequate for a little computer. Also, I will be paying $130 for the 60 gib harddrive... i plan to get an ipod, so i will need the room on my comp for all the music! :D and our house has built in wifi, (and optus cable! w00t!) so an airport extreme card is worth forking out for.

lastly, good to see another aussie on these forums. We can show the USAians that we aren't still technological retards... LMAO :eek:

~ozi

"The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is the day they start making vacuum cleaners!" -unknown

[aswitcher]

To all the critics of my post...

I plan to go back to Apple once they get their act together and not a moment before. I think everyone will have a rude awakening when Job's announces 2.4Ghz G5s in June... shipping in August.

Ok, if this happens then criticism will be severly warranted imho.

2.7 months to go.

[aswitcher]

Mac OS Rumors has some new stuff...

http://www.macosrumors.com/41104E.html

It will be interesting to see what else they put out before next weekend to see how good their information really is, so we can evaluate their info about the WWDC releases.

[Hiroshige]

Mac OS Rumors has some new stuff...

http://www.macosrumors.com/41104E.html


That seems like a thoughtful article.

It would explain why Apple's stock is near 52 week highs (now at 27.5 while high=28.37).

[Hiroshige]

While maybe you meant to diss the Prescott - your statement about the entire 90 nm fab is way too general, and deserves to be clarified.


Point well taken, although Hattig made some points which support my contention.

[invaLPsion]

I plan to go back to Apple once they get their act together and not a moment before. I think everyone will have a rude awakening when Job's announces 2.4Ghz G5s in June... shipping in August.

That would make me very pissed off, especially because I am on the verge of buying a sweet-spec PC. :mad:

[Azoblue]

Lets not even get our hopes up on that scenario. When was the last time Apple announced a flagship product and then shipped that product within anything less than a minimum of 4 weeks?


iBook G4. (the last computer hardware upgrade)

[LaMerVipere]

Mac OS Rumors has some new stuff...

http://www.macosrumors.com/41104E.html

It will be interesting to see what else they put out before next weekend to see how good their information really is, so we can evaluate their info about the WWDC releases.

That's great, but what about non pro-products, like iMacs? They are in dire need of a revamp as well. :rolleyes:

[macdong]

That's great, but what about non pro-products, like iMacs? They are in dire need of a revamp as well. :rolleyes:

they can't update iMac or iBook right now.
cause it'll make PowerBook look pathetic

[numediaman]

I hope I'm not duplicating here . . .

here is the latest from AppleInsider;
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=417

. . . according to a reliable source, Apple was recently forced to completely rework the internal temperature sensors inside the current G5 case design to accommodate the new 90 nanometer G5 processors. Apparently, the new 90nm daughter cards have a different profile and seat position than the cards included in the initial Power Mac G5.

"The sensors were reading too low of temperature coming off of the heat-sinks and this would throw the fans into a frenzy," one source said. "The fans would spin up to an intolerably noisy speed and then the machine would shut itself down to prevent damaging the processors even though the internal temperature of the processors remained well below 27-degrees Celsius."

Apple engineers have reportedly resolved the sensor issue, though sources say that low processor supplies may have acted to compounded the delays. Reportedly, IBM's Power PC G5 970FX chip has failed to yield even the baseline 2.0 GHz mark on a consistent basis, preventing Apple from introducing faster machines . . .

. . . Compelling evidence implies that the first set of Power Mac G5 revisions were to take place prior to the 15th of March . . .

I don't know if this is AI trying to make excuses for some bad predictions, or Apple making excuses for not being able to build products.

But the end result is everyone looks bad: IBM, because they can't supply chips with faster speeds and in quantity; Apple, because they don't have suppliers they can count on, and their engineering guys are having troubles; the rumor boards because there is nothing solid to report.

As I stated before, everyone needs to hold off on the 3.0 talk -- to date, there is no evidence that Apple can make it to 2.2!

[uzombie]

one:

Is the =fastest= dual 2.0 Ghz that much slower now?

two;

Software hasn't overcome the machine yet.

You can argue about new applications (after the fact) that are resource hungry (FCP, GarageBand, ...) but they did come after the G5 series speed bump (dual 1.8).

And here is something none have mentioned: if you price a 64 bit Windows box (that is, an AMD 64 FX/51 or 53, 1 gig of RAM (minimum), a decent video card, the beta WindowsXP for 64bit OS,...) you'll find that even a single processor workstation is equal to if not more than a dual 2.0ghz G5.

I priced a Monarch Computing PC box, 64bit FX 53, a Radeon 9800 XT, a DVD-R/CDRW, 2 gigs RAM, 2x74G SATA HD, and XP Pro for $3400. Remember, there is hardly any software that is 64bit native for the OS (still waiting on longhorn).

" good things come to those that wait "

[LaMerVipere]

I hope I'm not duplicating here . . .

here is the latest from AppleInsider;
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=417

. . . according to a reliable source, Apple was recently forced to completely rework the internal temperature sensors inside the current G5 case design to accommodate the new 90 nanometer G5 processors. Apparently, the new 90nm daughter cards have a different profile and seat position than the cards included in the initial Power Mac G5.

"The sensors were reading too low of temperature coming off of the heat-sinks and this would throw the fans into a frenzy," one source said. "The fans would spin up to an intolerably noisy speed and then the machine would shut itself down to prevent damaging the processors even though the internal temperature of the processors remained well below 27-degrees Celsius."

Apple engineers have reportedly resolved the sensor issue, though sources say that low processor supplies may have acted to compounded the delays. Reportedly, IBM's Power PC G5 970FX chip has failed to yield even the baseline 2.0 GHz mark on a consistent basis, preventing Apple from introducing faster machines . . .


I don't know if this is AI trying to make excuses for some bad predictions, or Apple making excuses for not being able to build products.

But the end result is everyone looks bad: IBM, because they can't supply chips with faster speeds and in quantity; Apple, because they don't have suppliers they can count on, and their engineering guys are having troubles; the rumor boards because there is nothing solid to report.

As I stated before, everyone needs to hold off on the 3.0 talk -- to date, there is no evidence that Apple can make it to 2.2!

Yea, but no one anticipated such a drastic jump to the G5 when it first came out either, so I think there is still a good posibility that we will hit dual 3GHz by june :)

[Dont Hurt Me]

Motorola all over again, this is bad news. Moto has nearly killed the platform with slow CPUs and now IBM cant get it over 2.0 gig. this would makes sense since that canadian outlet had xserve at 2.3 but then later we found xserve at 2.0 almost as if they had planned 2.3 then IBM couldnt deliver? why dont they just put in some AMD chips in the machines. FX53 at 2.4 ghz is a screamer, and so is AMDs 3400+ which is at 2.4. PowerPC has had one crappy record of advancement and here we go again.

Move over to AMD and let go markler or whatever it was called. Apple would then not have to worry about boards,Cpu's,Memory etc and it would be 100% easier to stay up with the PC crowd instead of year after year of getting spanked with LackofPowerPC.