What are macs missing? [Archive]

Backtothemac

Jun 25, 2002, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by coolocity
I've been looking to purchase a mac for quite some time now. A lot of my friends are really into them, but I know that their only giving me the good, but what about the bad? What don't macs have that would make them better?

Well, personally, I would like to see a Dolby Digital 5.1 support system put into effect. Especially in the laptops. So many PC laptops have 5.1 support, but not Apple laptops. Sure you can add it to the towers, but what about the iMacs? Anyway, it is minor. Who really uses there laptop for a DVD/home theater?

Other than that, DDR memory on consumer / pro models, and faster bus speed. Thats it really.

Oh, and a more intrusive licensing scheme, and OS. I want to feel like I have been to the protologist after I use my computer. ;)

coolocity

Jun 25, 2002, 08:47 AM

Yeah, I have a really nice 5.1 surround sound system I use with my PC, but it will almost be rendered useless when I get my iMac. Think there is any chance of them putting them into the mac after the expo? After all, they do play DVDs, so why not make it more enjoyable for the consumer?

Backtothemac

Jun 25, 2002, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by coolocity
Yeah, I have a really nice 5.1 surround sound system I use with my PC, but it will almost be rendered useless when I get my iMac. Think there is any chance of them putting them into the mac after the expo? After all, they do play DVDs, so why not make it more enjoyable for the consumer?

Not a chance for NY especially in the consumer line. Lets face it a 15 inch LCD is just a tad small to watch a movie even if it were in Dolby Digital. Don't see it happening for a while. Now, if you are a pro with a Cinema display, then that is a different story all together. YOu can buy cards for it, but how about standard support in X for it. Now, that would rock.

barkmonster

Jun 25, 2002, 04:07 PM

midi ports, ATARI ST quality midi ports with rock solid timing either built-in or as a BTO option instead of the modem.

Decent quality audio in/out at least 20bit, 48Khz with 128x oversampling on standard RCA connectors with the headphone out on the front of the tower on a seperate circuit with it's own volume control.

Eject buttons for the CD Rom and Zip drive (if you have one fitted).

Dual head graphics cards on all models with a DVI connector instead of VGA and the required VGA adapter included aswell as the standard ADC connector so you can hook up any kind of 3rd party monitor to a tower and only have to buy a cheap(ish) DVI - ADC adapter to add a 2nd Apple LCD monitor to it.

A switch on the underside of the keyboard so you can choose whether the Eject key functions as eject or as a power key.

Okay, some of them are maybe a little bit pricey to implement but we should at least have the DVI graphics cards on all models and the enhanced audio.

DavPeanut

Jun 25, 2002, 04:17 PM

mac's are missing games. ya, Jobs says that there are all these games for the mac, but when you look at it, exept for the big games (Civ III, Warcraft III, ect.)

They also need the sound support like Dobly Digital 5.1

King Cobra

Jun 25, 2002, 05:29 PM

Hey, Backtothemac, I watch movies using my 15 inch LCD. The only difference is that I sit basically right in front of the monitor. It's like watching TV. :)

But you do have a point. I would also like to see much better speakers than the Pro Speakers. I will admit, as I am listening to a remix of High Voltage by LP, that the quality is up there, but I want much more. I want something that can shake the house and scare the rats out of town (well, we're getting a break here in the summer). That is why I have requested the FPS2000 as Tech brought up earlier. Besides, it's only $40 more than the Pro Speakers.

Another thing that Macs are missing...peecee users! Let's convert those guys (and gals) to the Mac world now! :cool:

AlphaTech

Jun 25, 2002, 05:44 PM

A little button on the keyboard that calls in air strikes on micro$oft's headquarters, but only when billy-bob gates is there... :D

vitruvius

Jun 25, 2002, 06:11 PM

I would really like to be able to Update the Graphic card in the Imacs

ThinkpadsRule

Jun 25, 2002, 06:13 PM

More power!!!They are stable and all but lack the proper performance for such a pricey machne. DDR ram is missing,high resolution video cards are missing from the portables,extremely slow on dial-up and slower on dsl than their counterparts,lots of software is missing,most add-ons are expensive and lots of other stuff. I am beng honest and giving you true short falls of the mac.

krossfyter

Jun 25, 2002, 06:14 PM

i thought you were going to say...

"a think pad"!!!

heh.

AlphaTech

Jun 25, 2002, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by ThinkpadsRule
More power!!!They are stable and all but lack the proper performance for such a pricey machne. DDR ram is missing,high resolution video cards are missing from the portables,extremely slow on dial-up and slower on dsl than their counterparts,lots of software is missing,most add-ons are expensive and lots of other stuff. I am beng honest and giving you true short falls of the mac.

I KNOW you can't be talking about the new PowerBooks there [s]thinkpad, for the "high resolution video cards". Nor are you talking about the PowerMac systems...

As for dsl connecting speed, mine is there as soon as I turn the computer on... :p

USB add-on's are the same price for Mac's as peecee's :rolleyes:. FireWire devices cost more [sometimes] because they are BETTER then even USB2 devices are. :p

Go troll someplace else...

King Cobra

Jun 25, 2002, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by AlphaTech
Go troll someplace else...

Alpha, you might want to keep him on the forums. Let's lock him inside so he can't get out...then we pie him! :eek:

Hey, what happened to that thread anyways?

Yeah, probably someone will want to resurrect it... :cool:

firewire2001

Jun 25, 2002, 06:49 PM

hey.. regarding sound --

there is a utility in the apps folder thats has to do with multi -channel sound ( i think -- i dont have jaguar now with me)..

i think that apple might be giving more support for Pro Audio people in OS X in the future..

just a thought...

barkmonster

Jun 25, 2002, 08:14 PM

We need the Ati Radeon 8500 as a BTO and we need it now!!!!

infact screw Nvidia entirely and just go for either a Radeon 8500 or GeForce4 Ti in the towers, Nvidia would still be supplying apple with the ultra high end card with the killer GPU and bags of Video RAM.

In my opinion, largely based on benchmarks I've read on various sites, any G4 Tower with any of the graphics cards they currently ship with can get a framerate so high you're not going to notice if it's 2, 3 or even 4 times faster anyway. A TV is only 25 or 30fps depending on where you live, video games (mainly arcade machines) have been 50 or 60fps for decades and the framerate is perfectly smooth.

An Ati Radeon 8500 has the capability to make 3D look better than any GeForce card because of the Truform technology, I'd rather play with all the eyecandy on and have really smooth looking graphics at 50 or 60 fps than have obvious polygons on the edges of everything and a frame rate in the hundreds I'm never going to notice anyway.

Apple might aswell offer something that can handle reasonable framerates as well as make the onscreen image look as smooth as possible. For example:

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/Graphics/radeon_8500/tru-form_sample.jpg

We've already got the Ati Radeon 8500 as a BTO option on the Xserve, it wouldn't surprise me if we saw it as either standard issue in place of the Nvidia GeForce4MX or as a BTO option on the G4 towers.

As for the framerates, here's some info from a pretty extreme benchmark on barefeats...

They're framerates from Quake III running on a dual Ghz G4 with maximum settings at 1280 x 1024 and in 32bit colour :

GeForce4 Ti : 123.1 fps

Radeon 8500 : 77.2 fps

I hope we get this card, if anything just so we have a choice over the high end card.

billiam0878

Jun 25, 2002, 10:52 PM

I think faster CPU's and DDR Memory would do it... hopefully we'll see both in just a few weeks!

Bill

AlphaTech

Jun 25, 2002, 10:57 PM

barkmonster, I have been saying we need more ATI video card options available on the towers for some time now. I just hope that Apple does that before I get my next Mac (tower). Otherwise, I will opt for the cheapest, or stock, video card and rip it out of the tower as soon as I get it home. I will then install the top-of-the-line ATI video card into the tower.

I have ALWAYS had great results with ATI video cards, and will continue to support/purchase them in the future (provided they don't ***** up).

ThinkpadsRule

Jun 26, 2002, 04:42 PM

Why is it when someone gives constructive criticism you guys bash them? I was giving my honest opinion and this guy alphatech bashes me. This was uncalled for, you need to look within yourself and find out whats wrong. Anyway the mac is slower than its pc counterpart from what I have observed and from other sites that compare the models head to head. Barefeats is a good site, cnet is a good site and many others. When it comes to macs needing speed boosts and any other advancement you guys go nuts. The graphics card for the powerbook just went to 32 meg the pc is at 64 and 128 meg. The powerbook and all mac products (except xserve) do not have ddr ram, fast FSB, 5400 rpm harddrives in their laptops, they have less than half the processor speed ( it is insane to think a 800 mhz cpu can compete with a 2+ ghz cpu, though mac enthusiates will tell you this) I have a 667 mhz, 1 gig ram powerbook and my thinkpad (1.8 ghz, 512 meg ram) literally destroys it. I am only speaking the truth. Maybe you guys hate to hear the truth and only want to hear how great the mac is. Macs are good systems but be honest about the downsides and give this guy true unbiased answers. Not the machead answer.

jefhatfield

Jun 26, 2002, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by coolocity
I've been looking to purchase a mac for quite some time now. A lot of my friends are really into them, but I know that their only giving me the good, but what about the bad? What don't macs have that would make them better?

as a basic word proc., internet, email guy, i would like a floppy...really

for graphics, the rewritable CDs or zips do the job and they don't have to be internal for me..though that would be nice

also, i would like to see high end graphics cards hit the macs the same time it hits the pcs

and of course, i want to see software titles at the same time

second battery in laptops hotswapable with zip and extra hard drive...pcmcia in ibook...14" inch screen in ibook for $1499 usd

apple pda

apple cell phone

dual tibook

g4 ibook

lowered price on lcd imac

...and ddr ram

all that said, macs still rule and any one of these changes would make me happy

mymemory

Jun 26, 2002, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by ThinkpadsRule
Why is it when someone gives constructive criticism you guys bash them? I was giving my honest opinion and this guy alphatech bashes me.

That happend when some one is in a lack of sex, too much energy, still virgin, can't control it, turns agresive, no girls wants him.

BTW, I would be plesed with a good audio i/o, without so much harmonic distortion.

A few months back I used an Audio Media 3 with the iTunes... well the difference with the mp3 using the regular output and the AMIII is just like from listen tv in a mono tv to listen the same thing from a DVD. Not noise, very accurate sound, clean as hell. Of course you will need to use good speakers (not the round ones).

Choppaface

Jun 27, 2002, 01:14 AM

price for hardware. you do get some stuff that standard PCs dont get, but overal they arent as fast, which is no biggie in my book.....snappyness is supposedly almost there in jaguar, for other stuff just have some patience.

I would love to see more packaged software on macs. the iApps are great, but lets see some more stuff. a simplified version of retrospect, maybe a basic painting app, that would be nice

also not everything is compatible with OS X yet. a lot of companies are yet to either make drivers or make decent drivers, but they'll eventually get around. if you're buying all-new stuff though, this probably won't be a big problem.

another thing is the file system. many times have I tried to move files, then tried to do something else with them too quickly, and then I get an error every time i want to do something with those files until i logout and log back in again. but hopefully some help from Be will change this :D :D

otherwise its very good. the only things I ever have to go back into 9 are for a) printing on my epson, as the OS9 drivers have actualy color control tools.... b) to use my scanner (it's pretty old so I doubt I'll ever see drivers for it...I'll prolly get a new one when it breaks, which looks like it could be soon)

Originally posted by ThinkpadsRule
Why is it when someone gives constructive criticism you guys bash them?

just put those sort of people on ignore. its better than trying to be constructive with them :D

ShaolinMiddleFinger

Jun 27, 2002, 02:29 AM

They're missing the ability to play avi's without having to translate them to quicktime movies

krossfyter

Jun 27, 2002, 02:38 AM

macs are missing the CHROME case!

cb911

Jun 27, 2002, 02:47 AM

i don't know that this is something that Macs are missing, more like something they have managed to avoid - PC chunkiness.

AmbitiousLemon

Jun 27, 2002, 03:24 AM

Originally posted by ThinkpadsRule
Why is it when someone gives constructive criticism you guys bash them?

i think people are tired of hearing criticisms based on misinformation. get your facts striaght before you start proclaiming what macs do and do not have and you will be fine. you will notice everyone else here is adding constructive criticism and not being attacked. you only get attacked when you take an ignorant and agressive tone. if you do not know what the mac has to offer then do not try to tell others what are the problems with the mac. if you have questions take a route similiar to the fellow who started this thread and ask a question in a nonthreatening manner.

barkmonster

Jun 27, 2002, 06:28 AM

A few months back I used an Audio Media 3 with the iTunes... well the difference with the mp3 using the regular output and the AMIII is just like from listen tv in a mono tv to listen the same thing from a DVD. Not noise, very accurate sound, clean as hell. Of course you will need to use good speakers (not the round ones).

Yeah, I noticed that straight away, infact CDs sound a lot cleaner and louder listening to them through my audiomedia III through the AUX input on my hifi than the CD player on my hifi does.

It's the fact the mac reads the audio off a CD digitially and then the card has high quality digital to analogue converters with 128 x oversampling and a really clean signal. Obviously it's asmuch the cable's you use to hook it up as the card as far as low noise is concerned but when I got my protools LE system and listened to a CD through the card for the first time it blew me away.

I don't see how apple can't work with digidesign to incorporate the converters and stuff off the card into the motherboard, it would only need some kind of bridge chip so it doesn't require any drivers and then they can add decent audio to the mac that's already proven to be good quality. I'm sure the converters in the mac at present only compares to the ones on £10 bargain basement soundcards you can get for windows. Plus we need that input back.

Also, when I checked the specs of the TiBook's new audio input on the apple site (someone had put a link to a technical document here a while ago), the minijack input has exactly the same dynamic range and signal to noise ratio as the yamaha SW1000XG card, that's more of a GM tone module with audio bolted on but it's still a good card and it's a good sign that apple are at least closing the gap a little between it's built in audio support and the quality you can get from a 3rd party card.

kiwi_the_iwik

Jun 27, 2002, 06:46 AM

I think the Mac needs a cup holder that can hold bigger cups than what it does at the moment.

Don't get me wrong - it was great that Apple listened to our pleas, and gave us one for the new iMacs, after leaving it out of previous iMac designs in exchange for the toaster-slot (which, by the way, doesn't even TOAST bread! And it was designed for non-standard slices... ...but that's another issue).

But how on earth can I be expected to put my King-Size Slushy into the tiny hole that Apple provide with the current line?

I ask you...

:rolleyes:

Choppaface

Jun 27, 2002, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon

i think people are tired of hearing criticisms based on misinformation. get your facts striaght before you start proclaiming what macs do and do not have and you will be fine. you will notice everyone else here is adding constructive criticism and not being attacked. you only get attacked when you take an ignorant and agressive tone. if you do not know what the mac has to offer then do not try to tell others what are the problems with the mac. if you have questions take a route similiar to the fellow who started this thread and ask a question in a nonthreatening manner.

don't forget the double standard :rolleyes:

AlphaTech

Jun 27, 2002, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
i think people are tired of hearing criticisms based on misinformation. get your facts striaght before you start proclaiming what macs do and do not have and you will be fine. you will notice everyone else here is adding constructive criticism and not being attacked. you only get attacked when you take an ignorant and agressive tone. if you do not know what the mac has to offer then do not try to tell others what are the problems with the mac. if you have questions take a route similiar to the fellow who started this thread and ask a question in a nonthreatening manner.

You know, posts like this makes me take back most of my evil thoughts about you. :D I know we both agree to disagree when it comes to browsers, so I have passed on that battle.

Besides, could that guy have selected a worse name to use in a MAC forum site??? :rolleyes: :D

BTW, thanks for putting your 10¢ in on this... :D

Quark

Jun 27, 2002, 04:27 PM

I have switched from the M$ world into the Apple world and have several peripherals that need:

Parallel Port
Serial Port
MIDI Port(s)
Audio Input

I know some of these are old technology, but I have a $1,500 printer that I can't hook up, yet -- haven't found the right adapter -- the only thing is some type of USB to Parallel or Serial.

Talk about problems and delays in communicating information between the components!

Thanks,
Quark

AlphaTech

Jun 27, 2002, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by Quark
I have switched from the M$ world into the Apple world and have several peripherals that need:

Parallel Port
Serial Port
MIDI Port(s)
Audio Input

I know some of these are old technology, but I have a $1,500 printer that I can't hook up, yet -- haven't found the right adapter -- the only thing is some type of USB to Parallel or Serial.

Parallel, and serial ports were replaced with USB. Midi ports are not used all that much any longer except for musical instruments. Audio input was returned to the PowerBook G4 in the last revision, and will probably be making a comeback in the other lines as well. If not, then you can get a USB device, or PCI card to do so.

Which printer do you have that you desire to attach to the Mac?? You probably would be better served by getting a new printer. All printers over the past few years have included USB ports on them, so if your's doesn't have that as well, then it's either ancient (in computer/printer terms), or was very cheap to begin with.

ThinkpadsRule

Jun 27, 2002, 05:13 PM

In which part of my post did I use misinformation. I told the exact truth in the experiences I have encountered while using a mac. Some times you must read the entire paragraph before you disect and decide to belittle a person. I have ran into many problems while using my powerbook, which in no way relates to your experiences. Macs are not perfect. So read before you decide to jump in and defend a well known agitator.