Professional G4 Macintosh

[Albert]

I have learn today, that Apple stop the construction of Professional G4 model in July, Mayby for G5?
Sure new models will appear in end of July or French Apple expo in September

[King Cobra]

I'm glad to see that you have decided to type using the most difficult language in the world! :D

However, with no proof, I cannot say that you are right. But I can also say that you might not be wrong. At least I would like to see G5s, but I don't think this is going to happen anytime soon. Have you seen the thread on the G5s possibly being late on debut, all the way to 2003? It's a quick rumor. Besides, with all the G4 update rumors soaring around I would like to say that we will see a G4 in July. All of this is IMO.

[edesignuk]

Where did u learn this from today, there is no way (well, very slim) that the G5 will come in at MWNY.
So where did u get this dodgy info?

[Backtothemac]

UGH!!! There will not be a G5 in July! Period. I don't care if Steve called and said that there would be a G5, there still will not be a G5. Deal with it, accept it, and lets all move on.

[wHo_tHe]

It could just be end-of-life for the current crop of G4 towers. I think it's certain that the towers will be revved somewhat, it's just a matter of how much. Right?

[Backtothemac]

Originally posted by wHo_tHe
It could just be end-of-life for the current crop of G4 towers. I think it's certain that the towers will be revved somewhat, it's just a matter of how much. Right?

Yea, they are going to be changed, and big time, but there will not be a G5 processor used in a Mac until late 2003. The G4 has too much life left in it. We just need to be happy with what we are going to see in July. It will be good enough for a while.

[rice_web]

The newest G4 could easily scale to 2GHz, because of its new architecture (or rumored architecture, rather).

The new G4 is rumored to support/have the following:

- 166MHz system bus (I can only hope for more)
- DDR Memory (can provide an increase of about 10%)
- Silicon on Insulator (increases speed up to 10%, if memory serves)
- .13Micron Manufacturing (less heat, smaller core)
- 512K L2 Cache and/or 4MB L3 Cache (with a smaller core comes bigger caches)
- An unfortunate 12 pipeline stages
- But maybe a better Altivec

The increase in the pipeline stages could allow the G4 to scale significantly (while also hurting performance), and the SOI would allow overclocking dreams. However, when we will see this rumored processor is difficult to say, because rumors also stated that the current batch of G4s could scale to 1.33GHz.

This presents an interesting dilemna, or a nice solution. If the new G4 is ready, then the Pro line could adopt it, allowing the iMac to take the Apollos. This could give us the following at some time in the future:

PowerMac
- G4s at up to 2GHz
- 512K L2 Cache at full processor speed
- 4MB L3 Cache at 1/4 processor speed (1/2 effective)
- 166MHz system bus with DDR at 333MHz

iMac
- G4s at up to 1.33GHz
- 256K L2 Cache at full processor speed
- 2MB L3 Cache at 1/4 processor speed (1/2 effective)

I don't know about you, but if that new batch of G4s offers what is rumored, I'll be a happy camper for a while. With the architecture of the rumored G4, we could see 2GHz G4s by MWSF, and maybe even 1.5GHz G4s at MWNY. Who knows?

With a 512K L2 cache and 4MB L3 cache, an increase in speed could be tremendous.

[Sun Baked]

What's happening with HyperTransport and RapidIO?

Which way will Apple go with the G5...

There seems to be more life in the HyperTransport corner right now. Especially with the announcement and demonstration of the 8th generation AMD Athlon earlier this month.

[Grokgod]

Qu'est-ce passe avec toi?

Ou a tu trouver ce nouveau chose?

Il'a pas une personne ici qui pense comme toi.

Dit moi ton raison pour cette idee!
Porquoi tu dit que le G4 son passe?

Moi j'ai penser que ce possible mais je prier toi pour une raison.

Une bonne raison, s'il vous plait!

Alors bonne chance et welcome to macrumors, mon ami.

[DavPeanut]

Originally posted by rice_web
The newest G4 could easily scale to 2GHz, because of its new architecture (or rumored architecture, rather).

The new G4 is rumored to support/have the following:

- 166MHz system bus (I can only hope for more)
- DDR Memory (can provide an increase of about 10%)
- Silicon on Insulator (increases speed up to 10%, if memory serves)
- .13Micron Manufacturing (less heat, smaller core)
- 512K L2 Cache and/or 4MB L3 Cache (with a smaller core comes bigger caches)
- An unfortunate 12 pipeline stages
- But maybe a better Altivec

The increase in the pipeline stages could allow the G4 to scale significantly (while also hurting performance), and the SOI would allow overclocking dreams. However, when we will see this rumored processor is difficult to say, because rumors also stated that the current batch of G4s could scale to 1.33GHz.

This presents an interesting dilemna, or a nice solution. If the new G4 is ready, then the Pro line could adopt it, allowing the iMac to take the Apollos. This could give us the following at some time in the future:

PowerMac
- G4s at up to 2GHz
- 512K L2 Cache at full processor speed
- 4MB L3 Cache at 1/4 processor speed (1/2 effective)
- 166MHz system bus with DDR at 333MHz

iMac
- G4s at up to 1.33GHz
- 256K L2 Cache at full processor speed
- 2MB L3 Cache at 1/4 processor speed (1/2 effective)

I don't know about you, but if that new batch of G4s offers what is rumored, I'll be a happy camper for a while. With the architecture of the rumored G4, we could see 2GHz G4s by MWSF, and maybe even 1.5GHz G4s at MWNY. Who knows?

With a 512K L2 cache and 4MB L3 cache, an increase in speed could be tremendous.
not gona happen in july, probably not till MWSF, at which point it would be G5's

[DavPeanut]

Originally posted by Grokgod
Qu'est-ce passe avec toi?

Ou a tu trouver ce nouveau chose?

Il'a pas une personne ici qui pense comme toi.

Dit moi ton raison pour cette idee!
Porquoi tu dit que le G4 son passe?

Moi j'ai penser que ce possible mais je prier toi pour une raison.

Une bonne raison, s'il vous plait!

Alors bonne chance et welcome to macrumors, mon ami.
english only please:D

[Wes]

Mais, non, Français est bon aussi! Je parle un peu de Français. Pendant le vacances, je vais oublier. ;-(

[OKComputer]

I dont believe that the G5 is totally out of the question. As of late the marketing strategy of SJ has been to give consumers what they want. when he introduced the flat panel imac he said " you wanted a G4. we gave it to you. you want a superdrive we said yes" and when he released the XServe he was quoted as saying "we listened to industry professionals and they wanted a 1U server and we are giving it to them." The last Rev of powermacs were great...but there was no fanfare surrounding them. I think the machines coming out will blow away any competition on the market today. thats why we are all in such a state of confusion. perhaps. just perhaps SJ is keeping this one locked up real tight as to prevent another time canada accident.

I do believe the G4 has A LOT of life left in it....in the ibook and in the imac....even the powerbook for some time. The smaller and cooler they get.

so really. what DO industry professionals want? I want the word render to be RENDERED useless. I want a G5.

[Mr. Anderson]

I can sum this all up in one phrase

At MWNY 2002 the new iWalk will have a 1.5 GHz G5........


It seems to me that its been pretty much expected that we'll see two things at MWNY - as for specifics, well, that we'll have to wait and see - but they are a *new* case design for the G4 desktop/pro line, and hardware somewhat similar to the XServe. Now some of you might remember an old tar of mine that I've put into retirement, basically because we'll most likely be waiting for a while, but if anyone feels like resurrecting the cause, be my guest and use it....

D

[King Cobra]

Originally posted by W-_-W
Mais, non, Français est bon aussi! Je parle un peu de Français. Pendant le vacances, je vais oublier. ;-(

Before AlphaTech goes wild on votre âne (translated for me) I suggest you revert to English! :eek:

Fin. :cool:

[mymemory]

The only true.

Apple needs faster processors now. The sales are not good as far as I know. The pro market is not interested in spending such ammount of money for something that offers half the speed of the PC side.

When you enter a store the client is just gonna ask, how much is this PC?=$1.000, How much is this Mac?=$3.000, what is the proccessor speed in the PC?= 2ghz. and the mac? dual 1Ghz. And the PC include a 17" monitor and a printer.

Apple knows that, average people take care of their money, $2.000 of difference is too much. Apple have to lunch the G5 or anything at list with double of speed. If the technology is ready or not there is not time, the period of "the fancy" computers (New iMac, iBook, Ti) is comming down to regular levels.

[rice_web]

Well, if the PowerMac receives a revision with the rumored G4 (the one I mentioned), the PowerMacs may finally be able to pull even with AMD, if only for a while.

AMD is currently having a very difficult time reaching the 2GHz level, where as the new G4 core may easily scale to that level. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[G5orbust]

Originally posted by rice_web
The newest G4 could easily scale to 2GHz, because of its new architecture (or rumored architecture, rather).

The new G4 is rumored to support/have the following:

- 166MHz system bus (I can only hope for more)
- DDR Memory (can provide an increase of about 10%)
- Silicon on Insulator (increases speed up to 10%, if memory serves)
- .13Micron Manufacturing (less heat, smaller core)
- 512K L2 Cache and/or 4MB L3 Cache (with a smaller core comes bigger caches)
- An unfortunate 12 pipeline stages
- But maybe a better Altivec

The increase in the pipeline stages could allow the G4 to scale significantly (while also hurting performance), and the SOI would allow overclocking dreams. However, when we will see this rumored processor is difficult to say, because rumors also stated that the current batch of G4s could scale to 1.33GHz.

This presents an interesting dilemna, or a nice solution. If the new G4 is ready, then the Pro line could adopt it, allowing the iMac to take the Apollos. This could give us the following at some time in the future:

PowerMac
- G4s at up to 2GHz
- 512K L2 Cache at full processor speed
- 4MB L3 Cache at 1/4 processor speed (1/2 effective)
- 166MHz system bus with DDR at 333MHz

iMac
- G4s at up to 1.33GHz
- 256K L2 Cache at full processor speed
- 2MB L3 Cache at 1/4 processor speed (1/2 effective)

I don't know about you, but if that new batch of G4s offers what is rumored, I'll be a happy camper for a while. With the architecture of the rumored G4, we could see 2GHz G4s by MWSF, and maybe even 1.5GHz G4s at MWNY. Who knows?

With a 512K L2 cache and 4MB L3 cache, an increase in speed could be tremendous.

where did u get this from? Those would be rele cool specs to have on a g4. and they arent all taht farfetched im my opinion. the g4 needs a larger L2 cache and the imac needs a L3 cache. do u rele think, tho, that the g4 would be pushed 200 mhz in bus speed?i thinmk apple would be most likely to have 266 mhz DDR. also, a 4 mb cache would be all taht of a speed boost anymore cuz the ddr used in the l3 caches are slower than the speculated bus speed now. but o well. good post

[rice_web]

Well, the L3 cache runs effectively at 1/2 the processor speed, so increasing its size would always improve performance. And yes, the G4 desperately needs a larger L2 cache.

I personally would love to see a 200MHz system bus and 400MHz DDR memory, but I think that 166 or maybe even 133 is more realistic.

As for my sources... that's so sketchy. I've just compiled these rumors from all of the rumor sites (even MacRumors.com), and the specs I provided were a general consensus of these rumors. So, it's entirely a rumor! However, some of these rumors date back to about a year ago, and they now seem to be more realistic.

I'd love to see the iMacs adopt the Apollo and the PowerMacs use the next generation G4. This would further differentiate the two product lines and make the PowerMac a more attractive purchase. One of the only excuses that exists for buying a PowerMac is PCI expansion.

[PyroTurtle]

i think we could see an anouncement of the G5...
i think the G4 PowerBooks are here for a while, that's what i think all the G4 Hype is about, and for the Flat iMac...
there's alot about the technology most of us don'pt know about...as for the "geeks" who are gods on the G5 topic, remember the embedded version is quite different, take the G4 embedded, it's totally different that the computer consumer version, to where it technically says it's running at 2.9 Ghz at times....numbers mean nothing to me anymore, i just want new Profesional PowerBooks...

[G5orbust]

Originally posted by rice_web
Well, the L3 cache runs effectively at 1/2 the processor speed, so increasing its size would always improve performance. And yes, the G4 desperately needs a larger L2 cache.

I personally would love to see a 200MHz system bus and 400MHz DDR memory, but I think that 166 or maybe even 133 is more realistic.

As for my sources... that's so sketchy. I've just compiled these rumors from all of the rumor sites (even MacRumors.com), and the specs I provided were a general consensus of these rumors. So, it's entirely a rumor! However, some of these rumors date back to about a year ago, and they now seem to be more realistic.

I'd love to see the iMacs adopt the Apollo and the PowerMacs use the next generation G4. This would further differentiate the two product lines and make the PowerMac a more attractive purchase. One of the only excuses that exists for buying a PowerMac is PCI expansion.

ur right, the pci expansion is one of the only reasons to buy a tower. But u forgot graphics, L3 cache, speed and memory maximum.

[billiam0878]

I just want a 1.4GHz G4 with DDR. That'll do it.

Bill :)

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by rice_web
I'd love to see the iMacs adopt the Apollo and the PowerMacs use the next generation G4. This would further differentiate the two product lines and make the PowerMac a more attractive purchase. One of the only excuses that exists for buying a PowerMac is PCI expansion.

Have you ever actually used an iMac and a PowerMac. The iMac sucks arse when it is put up next to the PowerMac, epecially when you start working in more than one program at once and the cache and bus limitations on the iMac kick in.

[rice_web]

I am yet to work with a Quicksilver. Is the difference great enough for me to justify buying one? (or, should I have bought one instead of the iMac, you're saying?)

That's off topic. The point that I was trying to make was that there just wasn't the difference between the two to justify nearly $1,000 for nearly identical products.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by rice_web
I am yet to work with a Quicksilver. Is the difference great enough for me to justify buying one? (or, should I have bought one instead of the iMac, you're saying?)

That's off topic. The point that I was trying to make was that there just wasn't the difference between the two to justify nearly $1,000 for nearly identical products.

Like I was saying, I really do think that you need to look at the two side by side before you make a comment like that. There is a HUGE difference between the two machines.

Now, if you are to say that for your needs you can not justify the price difference but to say that they are too similar because the MHz is similar is quite naive and unresearched. As Apple keeps trying to teach, MHz is not the whole bag. When you look at the lack of cache and the bus speed of the iMac you see that it really is not all that close to the PowerMac. I would rather use my PowerMac 533 than an iMac G4 800 because the iMac just can not handle the way I jump inbetween programs. In fact, the iMac has enough trouble continually playing music when a CD is put in the drive.

[Beej]

Rice-
that is some of the most logical and intellegent extrapolation I've seen at this site for ages. Good job, and thanks! :)

[Ouroboros]

One point I see mentioned by a lot of people: "The G4 has a lot of life left in it."

Well of course it does! But how does this conclusively PROVE that there won't be a G5? If and when the G5 comes out, the G4 will still be there, with the other product lines. That is where its "long life" should be attributed to. The logic that we haven't heard any conclusive proof doesn't prove much. If you look at all these sites (like the Register), and people hearing mutterings from Steve himself at MWNY 2001, from strange product launches happening in July (apparently Adaptec is coming out with a Mac OSX PCI/PCI-X card), overseas mutterings about this and that, there seems to be something about G4's.... and G5's.

I think that if indeed the G5 was rolling out soon, there would be the largest anti-information campaign by Apple. They simply wouldn't let anyone anywhere say anything. They certainly are getting better at controlling leaks (ie nobody knew about the iMac/enclosure/G4 until Time blew it). Hell, I could see them giving disinformation, they're so damn secretive.

So my whole point is this: The G4 is going to be around a long time, even after the G5 is released.

[rice_web]

Now, here is where we diverge. I work with a PowerMac 400, a PowerMac Dual-450, and two iMacs at work (my PowerMac 400 is my main workstation). At home, I have an iMac DV 400.

The funny thing is, I find that my iMac DV 400 is actually fast. It handles everything I do just fine (and I am usually running iTunes, Internet Explorer, Microsoft Word, etc.). I even play a few games on it. And, I think that OS X runs well.

So, for you to complain about the speed of the FP iMac is a little over my head, for the fastest Macs that I've ever worked with are my FP iMac, that dual-450, and a 733DA.

[rugby]

rice-

I work on a G4/400 a home and an ibook/500 dual usb at work. I've played with tons of Macs on X, iMac FP's, dual 533 towers, dual 800's and others. I've worked with many apps and can say the bus speed is a HUGE factor in saying the iMac is slow. Try doing 3-4 things at once and the slow bus speed really drags the system down. the 133mhz bus make a big difference, and a double pumped 133 bus (DDR2100) should make an even bigger difference. Of course a PC2500 bus would be even nicer, but we can't have everything now can we?

[rice_web]

DDR alone only adds about a 10% increase on most tasks (this based on using Intel and AMD computers with and without DDR).

So, an increase in bus speed and DDR would make a killer computer (or at least a killer Mac)

[cjw]

For those not well versed in French (that includes me), here is a rough translation of what the people said in French:

Qu'est-ce passe avec toi? Ou a tu trouver ce nouveau chose? Il'a pas une personne ici qui pense comme toi. Dit moi ton raison pour cette idee! Porquoi tu dit que le G4 son passe? Moi j'ai penser que ce possible mais je prier toi pour une raison. Une bonne raison, s'il vous plait! Alors bonne chance et welcome to macrumors, mon ami.

What is happening with you? Or do you have to find this new thing? It has not a person here that thinks as you. I say, what is your reason for this idea! Maybe you say that the G4 passes his? I have to think that this one is possible but I to pray you for a reason. A good reason, please! Then good luck and welcome to macrumors, my friend.


Mais, non, Français est bon aussi! Je parle un peu de Français. Pendant le vacances, je vais oublier.

But, no, French is good also! I speak a little French. During the vacation, I will forget it.

[drastik]

We need to get DDR, period. The RAM is stuck in '99.

[tjwett]

Originally posted by cjw
For those not well versed in French (that includes me), here is a rough translation of what the people said in French:

Qu'est-ce passe avec toi? Ou a tu trouver ce nouveau chose? Il'a pas une personne ici qui pense comme toi. Dit moi ton raison pour cette idee! Porquoi tu dit que le G4 son passe? Moi j'ai penser que ce possible mais je prier toi pour une raison. Une bonne raison, s'il vous plait! Alors bonne chance et welcome to macrumors, mon ami.

What is happening with you? Or do you have to find this new thing? It has not a person here that thinks as you. I say, what is your reason for this idea! Maybe you say that the G4 passes his? I have to think that this one is possible but I to pray you for a reason. A good reason, please! Then good luck and welcome to macrumors, my friend.


Mais, non, Français est bon aussi! Je parle un peu de Français. Pendant le vacances, je vais oublier.

But, no, French is good also! I speak a little French. During the vacation, I will forget it.

what the?

[OSeXy!]

Rice:
I think you're talking about the PPC 7470:

"...According to Motorola sources, a tweaked version of the Apollo 7450 G4, the 7470, will be ready for volume production shortly after the end of Q2, in time for a summer ramp. The 7470 will be manufactured on a 0.13 micron process, allowing for a smaller die size with room for 512K of L2 cache, and support up to 4MB of DDR-SDRAM L3 cache.

The 7470 supports a modified bus protocol, MPX+, which supports double data transfer and which should effectively run at 266Mhz according to sources.

The MPX+ bus retains MPX's 36-bit addressing lines, and is described as an interim measure. Don't expect dramatic leaps in SMP scaling - two will remain the sweet spot. The 7470 should scale to 1.5GHz. In parallel development, Motorola is priming a cut-down 7470, labelled the 7460, which doesn't support L3 cache..."

... as seen on The Register: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/archive/24018.html

This was the report which also mentions the PPC 7500 (the first possible G5 contender...)

[decimal]

Is it that easy to change the pipeline depth on a microprocessor. As I understand the G4 started off with a 5 stage pipeling then went on to 7 and is now rumored to up it to 12. I thought changing the pipeline depth required radical redesign of the chip. And I never really understood what Mot meant by G4 having a lot of life left. Do they mean the G4 can scale well. If that is the case why are they increasing pipeline depth?

Certainly confusing.

[Albert]

Salut à toi mon ami, et merci de me repondre en Francais.
Je ne dis pas que le G5 sera présent en Juillet, mais juste que Apple a prévenu ses applecenter en france que les G4 professionnels sont arrétés de fabrication dès cette été, cela voudrait donc dire qu'une nouvelle machine avec un nouveau design doit faire sont apparition bientôt avec certainement un G4 mais j'aimerai réver à un G5.
A bientôt et que le Mac soit avec toi

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by Albert
Salut à toi mon ami, et merci de me repondre en Francais.
Je ne dis pas que le G5 sera présent en Juillet, mais juste que Apple a prévenu ses applecenter en france que les G4 professionnels sont arrétés de fabrication dès cette été, cela voudrait donc dire qu'une nouvelle machine avec un nouveau design doit faire sont apparition bientôt avec certainement un G4 mais j'aimerai réver à un G5.
A bientôt et que le Mac soit avec toi
Is a little english language out of the question? it would be nice to be able to read your post. :)

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by verbose101

Is a little english language out of the question? it would be nice to be able to read your post. :)

Safety with you my friend, and thank you to answer me in French. I do not say that G5 will be present in July, but just that APPLE prevented its applecenter in France which G4 professionals are arrétés of manufacture as of this summer, that would like to thus say that a new machine with a new design must make are appearance soon with certainly G4 but I will like réver in G5. So long and that Mac is with you

Thanks to Google for that half-arsed translation
:)

[King Cobra]

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen
Thanks to Google for that half-arsed translation
:)

Half-arsed is putting it lightly...that's why I use BabelFish! :D

And Alphatech has already reminded a few people (including myself) to get back to English. If need be I will use BabelFish to translate your ashes to English, then fire back in a French translation.

However, I don't need Babelfish for Spanish. :eek:

Just get back to English. It won't kill you. :cool:

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by Albert
Salut à toi mon ami, et merci de me repondre en Francais.
Je ne dis pas que le G5 sera présent en Juillet, mais juste que Apple a prévenu ses applecenter en france que les G4 professionnels sont arrétés de fabrication dès cette été, cela voudrait donc dire qu'une nouvelle machine avec un nouveau design doit faire sont apparition bientôt avec certainement un G4 mais j'aimerai réver à un G5.
A bientôt et que le Mac soit avec toi

Bablefish's SO much better translation:

Hello with you my friend, and thank you to answer me in French. I do not say that G5 will be present in July, but just that APPLE prevented its applecenter in France which G4 professionals are arrétés of manufacture as of this summer, that would like to thus say that a new machine with a new design must make are appearance soon with certainly G4 but I will like réver in G5. So long and that Mac is with you