animal products

[jefhatfield]

is it possible to avoid all animal products?

if so, what do you do/use?

[coolocity]

There's always pleather.. that's not leather, not from animals at all I don't think. Anything you buy that is tested on animals, you can buy a substitute that was not tested on animals. (Think the new iMac was tested on animals? let's hope not) As for the big "Vegans are stupid, they never get protean." We all know that is a load of junk. Soy is great. Boy oh boy, I can't believe it's soy! Veggie lasagna (sp) is really good, I should get the recipe up here!

- John-o

[eyelikeart]

I think it's somewhat possible to do...but u will have to go to some extreme measures to do so...or so I'd imagine.

Personally, it's not that I'm lazy nor a condoner against animal rights, but damn I just don't have the time & energy to really make an effort. There are way too many conveniences in life to go through the hassle of reworking the way my life is...

[coolocity]

Yeah, I try to go about life as usual, helping where I can. I'm known to opt for that veggie burger here and there.. but I couldn't resist getting leather seats for my car! I could if I got 'em in the summer though, those things are getting sticky :(

[jelloshotsrule]

coolocity! nice. you a vegetarian or just like your soy products?

i've found that soy and "fake meats" have taken the place of meat very well. my mom makes some excellent non meat versions of my old favorites. including something called "pigs in the blanket". it's great...

as for no animal products at all... that's hard. i still have some leather products though i try not to buy any new ones. and the whole tested on animals thing is tough... especially with medicines, where it's tough to decide. but spraying hairspray in an animals' eyes just to see how it will affect humans when they get it in their eyes... is gross.

for animal free clothing, i see it similarly as sweatshop free... basically, it is possible, but takes much effort and looking, and sometimes more money. that said, nike (super sweatshop users) have some of the most expensive damn shoes there are.


in conclusion, it's possible, but tough. we need less lazy eyelikearts making no effort to actually change things.... ha! ;)

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by coolocity
Yeah, I try to go about life as usual, helping where I can. I'm known to opt for that veggie burger here and there.. but I couldn't resist getting leather seats for my car! I could if I got 'em in the summer though, those things are getting sticky :(

guess you're not a veggie after all... dang!

leather seats. come on. the animals are raised on huge corporate farms and tortured and killed just so someone can make money off you needing a bit more "style" for your car.

leather always seemed dumb to me. as with veal...

then again, is wool ok? or silk? it's a tough call...

[coolocity]

I tried being veggie, worked for about 6 or so months, then I went to my favorite resteraunt with my family for fathers day... steak, mmmm. Too bad it has to be made of meat, hehe.

[coolocity]

And now I'm a regular, weee!

[eyelikeart]

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule

i've found that soy and "fake meats" have taken the place of meat very well. my mom makes some excellent non meat versions of my old favorites. including something called "pigs in the blanket". it's great...


I hear u on this...I have grown so fond of soy & veggie products in the past year. I know they aren't for everyone, but I like them alot.

I don't really care to eat red meat unless it's a filet mignon, so ribs & burgers & such I usually keep away from.

Turkey products are pretty good. I'd have a turkey burger or veggie/soy burger anyday over a beef burger.

Have u tried the "Gimme Lean" breakfast sausage yet by chance??

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by coolocity
I tried being veggie, worked for about 6 or so months, then I went to my favorite resteraunt with my family for fathers day... steak, mmmm. Too bad it has to be made of meat, hehe.

come on.... one meal at a time. it couldn't be easier. if you had some pasta instead of steak, but it still made you full, woudl you really care once you're finished eating? it's just an issue of selfishness (no offense). of course, if one doesn't see a problem, then they probably don't know the facts or don't care....

[iGav]

I'm sure it can be done......

But I could never do it...... I love my skimmed milk too much.... :)

Oh yeah... what is it with milk in the U.S. when I was on the west coast, I stopped in a shop to get a pint to drink..... and they had so many variations... all kinds of versions......!! I couldn't find just standard skimmed milk.... in the end I bought something that was ultra creamy......(it didn't say it was on the carton) Eww.... nasty!! :p

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule



leather always seemed dumb to me. as with veal...



i now do not eat veal...ever

but about leather...i don't have a leather jacket anymore...so that is a start

but what about shoes? could you give me a few suggestions? and what about dress shoes in black? i don't shop for shoes much so i am fairly ignorant on these topics

[eyelikeart]

Originally posted by jefhatfield

but what about shoes? could you give me a few suggestions? and what about dress shoes in black? i don't shop for shoes much so i am fairly ignorant on these topics

I hate to be this way about shoes...but I will not wear synthetic material shoes...

not only do they fail to hold up as well as leather, but they do not breathe like leather...and I hate it when my feet sweat from cheap shoe material... :(

[mischief]

Look folks:

The Human metabolism requires ingesting an amino acid FOUND ONLY IN ANIMAL PROTIEN. We can't make it on our own like Herbivores can. If we were herbivores the appendix would be a functional loop of intestine, not a useless place to accumulate bacteria. If we were herbivores we wouldn't have the insectivorous jaw layout and more telling FULL STEREOSCOPIC VISION.

The general body and behavioral layout for a predatory species points ears and eyes foreward and overlaps the field of vision of both eyes allowing for accurate tracking of prey. Additionally Predators are the only animal type that move point A to point B in a straight line. Herbivores travel in sporadic, indirect routes. Our heightened agression and intelligence also betray essentially predatory neurology.

Vegans who are so by choice have an overdevelopped sense of guilt.

True, Veal is bad. True, the industrial farm is bad. SO GO BUY A FARM AND RAISE YOUR OWN. Competition is the American way of changing Industry. If you want to change an American Industry, compete in it. Right now you're just supporting growing Soy beans, which does NOTHING to the livestock industry.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by mischief
Look folks:

The Human metabolism requires ingesting an amino acid FOUND ONLY IN ANIMAL PROTIEN. We can't make it on our own like Herbivores can. If we were herbivores the appendix would be a functional loop of intestine, not a useless place to accumulate bacteria. If we were herbivores we wouldn't have the insectivorous jaw layout and more telling FULL STEREOSCOPIC VISION.

The general body and behavioral layout for a predatory species points ears and eyes foreward and overlaps the field of vision of both eyes allowing for accurate tracking of prey. Additionally Predators are the only animal type that move point A to point B in a straight line. Herbivores travel in sporadic, indirect routes. Our heightened agression and intelligence also betray essentially predatory neurology.

Vegans who are so by choice have an overdevelopped sense of guilt.

True, Veal is bad. True, the industrial farm is bad. SO GO BUY A FARM AND RAISE YOUR OWN. Competition is the American way of changing Industry. If you want to change an American Industry, compete in it. Right now you're just supporting growing Soy beans, which does NOTHING to the livestock industry.

our teeth indicate we are not primarily meat eaters

our long digestive track also is designed primarily to digest vegetables and fruits

but i don't know if that means all meats are bad for us as human beings

i know if all i ate was meat, i would be dead in ten years before i hit 50...i worked at a hospital for three years and saw more victims of eating too much protein more than victims from cigarettes

red meat kills more than cigarettes so why doesn't red meat come with a surgeon general's warning on the package

top three killers are heart disease, cancer, stroke and red meat is up there in the reason for causing those ailments

i like a balance of meat, carbos, fruits, and vegetables..but i need to eat more of the latter two!

[eyelikeart]

Originally posted by mischief
Look folks:

The Human metabolism requires ingesting an amino acid FOUND ONLY IN ANIMAL PROTIEN.

Vegans who are so by choice have an overdevelopped sense of guilt.

Right now you're just supporting growing Soy beans, which does NOTHING to the livestock industry.

I agree totally. I am a definite meat eater. I eat primarily chicken & turkey. I do get my fill of red meat occasionally at a great steakhouse. I also do like beef jerky (it's low fat & packed with protein) as well as turkey jerky.

I think I agree somewhat with the guilt factor and vegetarianism. It's a natural instinct to eat meats & such. I do think it has a lot to do with conscience telling u that u are killing life to eat meat that causes many people to give it up all together. I dont go for the "meat is the reason why people are dying" factor.

Soy Beans & veggie products are great alternatives. I'm into trying new stuff, so I'm always willing to give them a whirl. It doesn't mean I won't eat regular stuff, but I'll make them an addition my diet...not a replacement within it.

[Mr. Anderson]

One of the big problems with live animals being used for protein is that they need to be fed over their lifespan. This food could be better off used for our food. What would be nice is a way to make better quality soy/wheat/vegetable protein products that taste/cook/look like the real thing. We might be lucky and see this in our lifetimes, especially if food supplies become a problem

Any one seen Soylent Green or Brazil? Some interesting scifi films that have some future food related possibilities.

D

[3rdpath]

i keep my animal products to a minimum.

psuedo-leathers are a form of plastic and a great part of our environmental pollution comes from the making of plastics. so a lot of the alternatives have a high price also.

today's sermon:
buy less, use less, buy used, eat less, travel light, think small
who says you need it all? :D

[eyelikeart]

Originally posted by 3rdpath
today's sermon:
buy less, use less, buy used, eat less, travel light, think small
who says you need it all? :D

that's a problem in this country...

everyone wants what they want when they want it...and they want excess while their at it...

no one cares about how it's going to affect the future...they just want it all...:rolleyes:

me...personally...I'm frugal when I need to be...and I hate traveling heavy...the less with which I have to deal the better ;)

[3rdpath]

Originally posted by eyelikeart


that's a problem in this country...

everyone wants what they want when they want it...and they want excess while their at it...

no one cares about how it's going to affect the future...they just want it all...:rolleyes:

me...personally...I'm frugal when I need to be...and I hate traveling heavy...the less with which I have to deal the better ;)

everything can be justified by its affordability...

an SUV is great...i can afford the gas.
a huge house is good...i can afford the materials and the utilities.

self-restraint and the awareness of how one fits into the big picture are sadly not part of the natural human thought process.

[eyelikeart]

Originally posted by 3rdpath


everything can be justified by its affordability...

true...but just because u can do something doesn't always mean u need to right? ;)

[Durandal7]

I've never really understood why PETA comes out and says things like "free the cows!" They don't seem to understand that cows can no longer survive on their own. The males would die from the elements and the females would die from a bacterial infection as a result of not being milked. Freeing the cows would be killing the cows slowly and painfully.

That's my rant for the day.

[jelloshotsrule]

great call 3rdpath. you the man.

as for shoes. i wear mine until i can't anymore. i have holes in one pair and the others are falling apart a bit inside. those are just canvas, vans type shoes...

as for dress shoes, i don't know. i haven't gotten any since i became old enough to buy them myself, so i have to look into it. as of now, i don't have any dress shoes though. i borrow my bro's if i need em.

duke- awesome call on the feeding the animals food we could be eating. we give a cow food that could feed a person for several years to get them big, then that one cow makes only so much food, much less than they consumed over their life time. by all reasonable thinking, meat should cost far more than it does, at least far more than veggies. but it is government subsidized to make it more affordable. in china meat is quite expensive, and when i was eating at my chinese friend's house, his dad was astonished that i didn't eat meat by choice, because in china if you can afford it, you eat it. however, it's not that way in america.

as for us being carnivores. our teeth do seem to pint to that we don't need to eat meat. most carnivores (animals) do not cook their food.... we do. which makes it easier to eat generally.... not sure what my point is but oh well. but i do think that if someone has only meat to eat, then they should eat it. i by all means put human life before animals. i just think it's sad that we force feed and over feed animals so that we can have fatter tastier meat, rather than giving that food to other countries. yeah, that's idealistic, i realize.

we don't need to eat meat these days. so i don't. it's that simple..

i don't feel guilty. heck, if anything, i feel guilty often for NOT eating meat. ask any vegetarian that's eaten at a friend's house or anything. they almost definitely have felt bad for NOT eating meat, not the other way around. so that is just ridiculous to think that i don't eat meat cause i feel guilty for eating meat in the past.

ps. i do eat free range turkey on thanksgiving and whatnot. it's expensive, but good.

and 3rdpath. yeah, we need to consume less. but as far as plastics and whatnot being bad... yeah. but also the massive amount of waste produced by factory farmed animals is a huge problem in itself. word up. good thread.

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by eyelikeart
true...but just because u can do something doesn't always mean u need to right? ;)

unless i'm drunk, that was 3rd's point...

we, especially americans, think that just because we can afford something we should have it

i have 50000 bucks to spend on a car. may as well get a fat suv.. when i could spend 15000 on a less fancy car and the rest on... whatever else.

not a great example but word.

my girlfriend didn't think she'd be able to become a vegetarian.... she tried. and it was a piece of cake. one meal at a time and it's easy. i think the key is you need to care enough to perform that kind of self discipline... but once you decide to do it, it's very very easy. vegan? a whole nother story....

[Backtothemac]

Well, lets see. Corporate farms are bad. So, I hunt for my food, but that is bad. So I eat grass? No way. Last night I had a nice big Ribeye. I will mostly hunt for my food in the fall, and use it to live for over 6 months. My whole family can live on two dear a year. We eat meat and veggies. That is how we are made up. I cannot understand why we have to sacrifice things that we, as the superior species on the planet want.

I want an Excursion, and I want to drive it to the mail box and back, just so I can burn more gas. Seriously, at least one day it will all run out, and they will have to find a new way to do things. I just feel like if you want to be a veggie, hey that is great. More power to you. If you want to eat meat. Hey, come on in. Your straight. Nice to know you. Your Gay, whatever floats your boat. You drive an SUV, wow, I drive a Honda, I bet your gas is expensive. Your a lesbian, will you marry me. :cool: :D ;) :p

Point is, yes, some of the things in the world, like veal is unreal, cruel, and horrible. Those types of things should be done away with. You want tender meat. Go get a bow and kill a deer. Best meat in the world anyway. But, am I going to go out of my way, and take time from my living my life to discover if a product has animal in it? No way. Life is too short to worry about the small stuff. Whether McDonald's has cow fat in their fries. Well, that is just rediculous.

---

B2TM arms his fully opperational Pie station waiting for the attack.

[Backtothemac]

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule

we, especially americans, think that just because we can afford something we should have it

i have 50000 bucks to spend on a car. may as well get a fat suv.. when i could spend 15000 on a less fancy car and the rest on... whatever else.

not a great example but word.



Jello, if you can afford the fat suv, then why not get it? Why does anyone have the right to look down at you because you have nice things that you have worked hard for. I can't wait for the day that I finally buy my own Ferrari, Porsche, or some other exotic. Let someone say word one to me about it.

I will have to call the Mrs. to come pick up the exotic, because I will be going to jail. You read in the paper about people painting on peoples suv's and throwing stuff at them. It is sick. Jealous people act like zealots sometimes.

[rainman::|:|]

like ive always said, if god didn't want us to eat animals, she wouldn't have made them so TASTY...

hehe...

i'm all for preventing animal cruelty... i usually make sure none of my stuff was tested on animals... but for several of my own reasons, i'm not a vegan.

i think it's pointless to argue the human physiology thing... we have both sharp *and* flat teeth, so it can be argued both ways... true it's very possible to have a well-balanced animal-free diet, but it's a lot of work-- if it's important to you, more power to you :)

my only problem is with vegans who don't make sure their diet is proper... i knew a woman once that was a hardcore vegan, she had tons of medical problems because her muscles basically rotted...

but my family also has a history of heart disease, and cholesterol has contributed to a lot of deaths... overindulgence is always bad...

:)
pnw

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Jello, if you can afford the fat suv, then why not get it? Why does anyone have the right to look down at you because you have nice things that you have worked hard for. I can't wait for the day that I finally buy my own Ferrari, Porsche, or some other exotic. Let someone say word one to me about it.

I will have to call the Mrs. to come pick up the exotic, because I will be going to jail. You read in the paper about people painting on peoples suv's and throwing stuff at them. It is sick. Jealous people act like zealots sometimes.

well first of all, not everyone works hard for their money. and not everyone who doesn't have money had any opportunity to earn their money (see africa and other places like that).

i wouldn't paint on someone's car. that's dumb. but i'd shake my head and laugh that you need an suv to feel powerful/important/etc. or a ferrari. or whatever.

don't assume that because someone thinks what you do with your money is bad that they are jealous, that's pretty silly. people spend lots of money on pcs, are you jealous of that? my parents could afford an suv, but i wouldn't want them to get one because they don't need it. i don't care if they can afford it, it would be totally selfish to buy something that is wasteful and harmful that you don't need.

sure, you might not need a dual g4 always, but it's not as straight up harmful so if you got one, sweet.

that's good that you hunt with a bow. that's cool. but i'm just saying i don't need to inflict pain to eat, so i won't. i'd much rather see a hunter getting their food than someone picking out which cow to bolt gun for dinner.

and i do think god put the animals here for us. but that was then. now i don't need to eat em...

the animals are my friends, and i don't eat my friends.. haha.

ps. if you went to jail over someone something said about your car..... well, that's kinda pathetic. don't you think? it's just a car.

[Santiago]

It's amazing the things that contain animal products. Due to the gigantic meat industry, there's a lot of leftover cow bits that people have found amazing things to do with. Discover magazine a while back had an article on this. Did you know that PVC pipes contain cow (in the form of rendered tallow made from leftover fat and bones)? Concrete is one of the few things without cow in it...

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
like ive always said, if god didn't want us to eat animals, she wouldn't have made them so TASTY...


Hell YEAH!!! Besides, we are omnivours. :D

Love eating a good cut of beef, or chicken, or port, or nice and fresh fish... mmmmmmm, it's all good. :D

I eat veggies too, either salads or something besides the dead animal/fish. :D

As for leather products, lets see... I have the leather wrapped stearing wheel that came with my truck, but cloth seats. I have the leather boots (two pair and sneakers) as well as three black leather jackets. Two are for riding the motorcycle, and one is for 'going out'. I also have a few pairs of leather gloves for either riding, or when it gets cold up here (as it does in the winter time).

I also have a couple of leather chairs (given to me by family) that are damned comfortable.

There is just something about the feel of leather, and the way it reacts to other materials that makes it so appealing to so many people. I would much rather have leather then some fur coat. At least with the leather, you know that they did something with the rest of the animal. With fur, chances are that is all they used from it. THAT is sad...

BTW, leather is the BEST protective gear that you can wear while on a motorcycle (other then a helmet). Which is one of the reasons you see so many bikers wearing it. Besides, it's cool to wear animal skins. :p :D

[rainman::|:|]

Originally posted by Santiago
It's amazing the things that contain animal products. Due to the gigantic meat industry, there's a lot of leftover cow bits that people have found amazing things to do with. Discover magazine a while back had an article on this. Did you know that PVC pipes contain cow (in the form of rendered tallow made from leftover fat and bones)? Concrete is one of the few things without cow in it...

That's very true. Elvira works with PETA every year educating people about candies that contain gelatin. tons of candy contain it, and you know what it is? cartilige and bones boiled and mixed with sugar. it doesn't stop me from eating it *all* the times (those damn Peeps things are too good) but it makes you stop and think when you've got the munchies...

:)
pnw

[Backtothemac]

Jello, you know a lot of that was tounge in cheek. My point is that it doesn't matter how you make your money (as long as it is legal) its your money, and how you spend it is your business. SUV's serve a purpose. If I could afford one, I would own one, but I can't. Yes, I do go out of my way to avoid animal cruelty, but that doesn't mean that I won't kill one myself, or even buy meat.

You know me better than to think that I would go to jail over my car. that was a joke. Anyway, another one of those topics that are out there that set people off.

Oh, and no offense to anyone out there, but I cannot do anything to help people in Africa. I am only talking about the US here.

[Choppaface]

think of the plants!!!

you think slaughterhouses are ugly! what about all those farms out there! all those homogeneous fields out there....crops so controled by humans that there is so low genetic diversity that they cannot live without fear of disease. sure we might tear a cow apart, but thing of the plants that just get shredded into grain, run over by the farmer's tractor, pissed on by his son who's too lazy to go inside and use the toilet. sure plants can't express their suffering, but does that make it any more just to treat plants as we do? does that give us the right to descriminate against plants and hold animals on a higher plane?????????

he he :D :D

but really, if one is willing to look at man's misuse of animals, one must be willing to look at man's misuse of plants

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Jello, you know a lot of that was tounge in cheek. My point is that it doesn't matter how you make your money (as long as it is legal) its your money, and how you spend it is your business. SUV's serve a purpose. If I could afford one, I would own one, but I can't. Yes, I do go out of my way to avoid animal cruelty, but that doesn't mean that I won't kill one myself, or even buy meat.

You know me better than to think that I would go to jail over my car. that was a joke. Anyway, another one of those topics that are out there that set people off.

Oh, and no offense to anyone out there, but I cannot do anything to help people in Africa. I am only talking about the US here.

ahh, sorry. i didn't realize it was a joke... i mean, i know you wouldn't really go that far, but i actually did think you cared that much about it.... my bad. :D

suv's serve a purpose, yeah. my point is that just because i can afford one (which i can't, but you know...) doesn't mean i NEED one. or even shoudl have one. i see what you are saying about "it's my money..." but that IS selfish. there are better things that one can do with the money.

as for helping africa, my point was just that we have so much food that africans AND hungry americans could have plenty to eat if we didn't overbreed cattle just to feed them food we could be eating......

you can do things to help people in africa, though i understand your concern for helping those close first. just an example, but it would have applied to the hungry here in america as well....

gelatin is gross yeah... and so are peeps. smoke less pot and you'll be fine ha

misuse plants..... explain?

and yeah, i believe animals/humans are above plants.... the whole lacking the ability to think thing.... and the nerves and all that... and not all animals are equal along those lines either. insects and things like that have less of a nervous system than mammals and such. i'm a filmmaker, not a scientist though...

beer is great. from plants. whoo..................... hoo

[krossfyter]

....


P.E.T.A. (people eating tasty animals)

[eyelikeart]

Originally posted by krossfyter
....


P.E.T.A. (people eating tasty animals)

dude...that's pretty nasty...:D

[krossfyter]

yes sir it is! its a real CHUPACABRA.

[Gelfin]

Animal products? Yes, please.

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by krossfyter
yes sir it is! its a real CHUPACABRA.

Dude, you eat those??? That's f*cked up... ;) :p :eek: :D

[krossfyter]

Originally posted by AlphaTech


Dude, you eat those??? That's f*cked up... ;) :p :eek: :D


hell yeah dude. thats why people have trouble finding them. im there before they get shots of a dead carcass or what not. i catch them alive or after they die. thier better when they are grilled.

[eyelikeart]

Originally posted by krossfyter



hell yeah dude. thats why people have trouble finding them. im there before they get shots of a dead carcass or what not. i catch them alive or after they die. thier better when they are grilled.

hmm...at least there is a motivation factor working along with u on this one... ;)

[krossfyter]

Originally posted by eyelikeart


hmm...at least there is a motivation factor working along with u on this one... ;)



phuckinA man!


best tastin meat ive ever had.