The Art of Buying a Mac

[Mindmelter]

You who have just decided to make "the switch", congratulations! Welcome to the world of (relatively) hassle-free computing on Mac OS X! Unfortunately, there is one initial barrier for you to overcome; you have to buy a Mac. Coming from the PC side of things, this seems like a piece of cake. You assume it's just a matter of finding something you like at a good price, and buying it. That perception is based on your PC experience. When you buy a PC, you enter a buzzing marketplace with dozens of competitors, each offering a myriad choices. But when you buy a Mac, you have only ONE vendor, and a vendor who offers a strictly limited set of choices at that.

And this makes the entire process of successfully "buying a computer" totally different.

The first thing to realize is this: At any given time, most of Apples offerings are NOT RECOMMENDED PURCHASES! There are two main reasons for this.

First, it's quite possible the particular Apple hardware you're interested in currently has unsolved issues. Apple will almost never admit the issue exists in the first place, but they will certainly do what they can to fix it. This can take weeks, months, or even years. When the fix eventually arrives, it more often than not only applies to hardware bought from there on. Earlier buyers are often left in the cold with unfixed machines. The best thing for you to do, is to wait for these issues to be fixed BEFORE you take the plunge. Apple hardware is not cheap. You do not want to be stuck with a lemon.

Second, the machine you want to buy may be due for an update soon. Since you want your investment to last as long as possible, you'll probably want to wait for the next refresh. Buying two weeks before a faster machine is released, will make you feel royally screwed. BUT, it's very important to remember this only applies to MINOR updates! MAJOR updates can bring a whole new set of unknown issues, forcing you back to square one, waiting for these to be fixed too.

Wait, wait, wait, then wait some more... Sometimes it seems there's NEVER a good time to buy a Mac! How on earth did all these happy Mac users get hold of those lovely machines they're so immensely satisfied with?

The secret is simple.

You have to put away the funds for your next Apple purchase beforehand, so you're ready to strike when the next opportune moment presents itself. Macs are for the monetarily disciplined.

I'll give a personal example of a successful Mac purchase, the last generation power-PC 15-inch powerbook I bought for my wife a couple of years ago.

This particular 'book originally had a strange issue, the screens were striped, so that every other line of pixels was weaker than the other. As usual, Apple didn't acknowledge the issue. Also as usual, many people of lesser visual acuity claimed to have bought perfect specimens, even though this was a technical flaw plaguing all 15-inch Powerbooks of that generation. But after a few months of internet buzz surrounding the issue, it appeared some people had finally gotten their screens replaced with good ones. Apple still didn't acknowledge the issue officially, but the fix was in.

At that point I bought. The machine was unpacked, just to verify the expected stripes were indeed there, and promptly sent back for repair. It came back fixed, also as expected. My wife's been happy with it ever since, and she's not in a hurry to upgrade it anytime soon either. It's still a capable machine for her needs. It still turns heads and brings oohs and aahs whereever she brings it.

The almost embarrassing fact is, Apple doesn't offer a machine she'd want to replace it with today! A 17-incher is too big for her, and a glossy 15 is out.

This machine was better than any earlier Powerbooks, but also in many important regards better than any of the Macbook Pro's to follow too! Most people were holding on for the coming Intel machines at this point, and missed this opportunity to get a wonderfully well-designed and long-lasting machine. The first Intel machines had heat issues and so on, and it took some time before there were any really good ones.

The last 15-inch Powerbook had a 960 x 1440 screen. To this day, the 15-inch Macbooks are still stuck in 900 x 1440, that is 60 pixels less vertically. Anyone waiting for higher resolution is still waiting. Not too shabby to have a more useful screen on the old and "obsolete" machine!

It also has a plethora of ports, which my wife has found most useful. There was a built-in modem (soon to go but still useful at the time), and an S-video outlet. The latter has saved my wife on countless occasions, when she has made presentations in places where an ordinary TV has had to suffice as a computer projector. When people are impressed by how she can connect to any old TV, she smugly remarks it's because she's got a professional computer, a Macintosh Powerbook. Not too shabby to have more useful ports on the old and "obsolete" machine!

The moral of the story is, when Apple offers a great machine that fills your needs, you buy it. You may wait for the next MINOR verison, if you don't need to upgrade right now. But you don't wait for the next MAJOR version, hoping it'll get even better. It may, or it may not. It may actually get worse, at least for your needs. Your next opportunity may be a long time coming indeed.

To aid in your buying decisions, the current Mac lineup is presented below, with my advice.


1. Stationary computers.

The iMac line is currently NOT RECOMMENDED, because it has multiple screen issues. One problem is extreme glossiness from the glass covering, another is color gradients across the screen. I have seen a lot of iMacs in person, and all of them have the gradient problem; it's a technical design flaw. Some people say they are the lucky owners of a machine without color gradients. I say some people are the lucky owners of less discerning visual acuity, and aren't bothered with the problem. The iMac screens are currently awful. That is a fact. If you don't agree, it simply means this particular kind of awful is good enough for you. If your standards are low in general, perhaps you should save some money and get a PC instead. I say this as a friendly advice. A PC really is the best choice for those who don't have a problem with what some others consider to be "awful things". Even though it's objectively true there are better and worse things in this world, it's also true beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Mac Donalds definitely makes worse food than a gourmet restaurant, but if you don't have the highly trained taste buds needed to fully appreciate gourmet food, and the burger makes you happy, by all means go for the burger. Don't buy a Mac just to impress your friends. Do it because you have to.

The Mac mini is RECOMMENDED. It has been given a nice MAJOR upgrade not too long ago. Most importantly, it doesn't seem to suffer any particular issues. The mini is plenty powerful enough for most users, and is the stationary Mac of choice for those needing to buy a computer TODAY. But if you can wait a little, you may be rewarded with a minor speed bump. This isn't guaranteed to happen, but it's likely. If your intended use of the mini includes to play demanding games at medium to high settings, you need to look elsewhere though. Meaning you should consider getting a stationary PC instead.

The Mac Pro has always been way too expensive to even consider for me, so I've never bothered to keep track on it. It may be a fine buy right now, or it may not. Ask someone else.


2. Portable computers.

The Macbook Air is also too expensive for me, considering what you get, so you'll have to ask someone else for opinions there as well. I just don't know.

The white plastic Macbook is RECOMMENDED, with minor reservations. It has just received a minor update, and offers good value for the money. The reservations are a not-so-hot screen quality, and a flimsy plastic case. You should see it in person before ordering. This is a cheap machine (well, by Apple standards anyway), and it may be too cheap for your taste. But if you're happy with the quality level you get for this amount of money, it's a good purchase.

The unibody Macbook is NOT RECOMMENDED right now. It certainly looks good, but it has a superglossy screen of low quality, and lacks a firewire port. Besides, an update should be imminent, so you would probably be better off waiting a little even if the screen and port issues don't bother you.

The unibody Macbook Pro is NOT RECOMMENDED either, mainly because a minor update should be forthcoming very soon. The 17 incher is probably going to be a highly RECOMMENDED buy after this minor update, whereas the fate of the 15-incher depends on whether it gets a non-glassy option too. Many people think it would be better to wait for Intel's forthcoming Arrandale chips some time in the beginning of 2010. But this depends on your situation. Arrandale will bring a MAJOR update, and those are prone to bring new and unforeseen issues. If you decide to wait for the Arrandale Macbook Pro's, you should probably wait until they've been in the market for a couple of months. If everything looks fine, you could buy, but at that time it could be better to wait for the next minor update as well... So either you buy the current generation Macbook Pro very SOON (after the next minor bump), or you wait a whole lot longer. If you wait for Arrandale, you also take a chance, in that some key features you were expecting may be dropped. Let's say the express card slot disappears, or firewire is pulled entirely, replaced with USB 3, or... You never know what's going to happen with Apple. You know what you can get NOW, not what you'll be offered later. And that's why I don't recommend waiting for the Arrandale chips, if the current 17-incher is a good fit to your needs.

That's it. As you can see, buying a Mac entails some careful planning, if you want to get a machine you'll be happy with for a long time to come. This isn't because Apple makes worse hardware than anyone else, it's because they're the ONLY ones making hardware to run OS X. If Dell doesn't provide the right machine right now, some other PC vendor will. The customer can buy whenever they want to, they'll just have to check the latest reviews and pick the best buy at the moment. But this luxury is one of the small things you'll have to trade for the superior computing experience offered by Mac OS X.

[chaosbunny]

Nice post! :)

I'll add a recommendation of my own: if you want to safe some money, buy the old version of any Mac once a new revision is out. You can get these leftover units at the apple refurb store or at local resellers. I got my 2,5 ghz 15" mbp with matte screen, firewire 400 and a standard display connection for 1350,– Euro the week after the unibodies were released. That's even cheaper than the 2,4 ghz MacBook and has more power plus the features mentioned above. When the iMacs got their latest revision you could get leftover 3 ghz iMacs from the previous generation for about the same discounts. You have full warranty on these machines too. I don't know if I'll buy another Mac at full retail price ever again.

[ditzy]

Wow I think that the OP's post is the most condescending post I've ever read. Things that you have stated to be fact are actually opinion. Then asserting that any one who happens to disagree with your opinion are only buying macs to be trendy, or that they are simply not discerning enough to own a mac is especially condescending.
I'm actually sitting here trying to find a fault with my iMac's screen, and I can't. Yet amazingly I have no intention of following your advice to get a PC. Maybe if I was a graphic designer, I'd update to a mac pro with a matte screen. But I'm not, so I wont.

[miles01110]

I've never read anything that managed to say so little with so many words.

[opeter]

I would never ever consider to buy an iMac.

[clyde2801]

Well, he did have a couple of opinions that I did agree with. For those not paying attention, they were in volume two.

[Biolizard]

Good effort, I appreciate what you're trying to do, but alas I have to agree that what's recommended is a very subjective concept. That's not to say it's not useful when put into context with other articles and advice, and I do agree with some points (although I think you're being a bit harsh on the whitebook).

[themoonisdown09]

So, when will this book be published?

[Mindmelter]

Wow I think that the OP's post is the most condescending post I've ever read.


Thank you! I always strive for excellence in all my undertakings, so it warms my heart to see I've achieved superiority in this regard!


Things that you have stated to be fact are actually opinion. Then asserting that any one who happens to disagree with your opinion are only buying macs to be trendy, or that they are simply not discerning enough to own a mac is especially condescending.


You got upset about my statement some people are more discerning than others? Perhaps you are not a very discerning person yourself. That is OK though. You don't have to be ashamed about being less discerning. But you should accept the fact more discerning people exist, and their opinions are valid among their kind.

I state a fact here, because ALL discerning people will say the same. Current iMac screens are not very good. You'll not find a difference of opinion among discerning people (meaning people with highly trained vision). You'll only find objections among people with out this acuity.

It's like wine. Connaiseurs will say wine A is excellent, and wine B is undrinkable crap. I can't tell a difference myself, because I simply don't know wine. That would never make me claim they are full of **** though. Of course people who know wine will taste differences where I don't. I respect their opinion as fully valid, but I'd save my money myself, and buy wine that's good enough for me.

Same thing with the iMac's screen quality. It's bad. All with sufficiently trained eyes agree. If it's still good enough to you, then you're in luck. Buy one.


I'm actually sitting here trying to find a fault with my iMac's screen, and I can't. Yet amazingly I have no intention of following your advice to get a PC. Maybe if I was a graphic designer, I'd update to a mac pro with a matte screen. But I'm not, so I wont.

Ah, you do have a new iMac! That's why you're on the defensive. Be glad you're blessed with the ability to enjoy it, instead of attacking those unfortunate who need better screens.

I'm glad I'm blessed with the ability to enjoy cheap wine. It doesn't make me less valuable as a human being, so I don't feel ashamed about it.

So, when will this book be published?

It just was.

I had nothing to do, so I wrote down my thoughts on a subject that popped into my mind, and looked if there was some suitable place to post it on the internet. Then I just clicked a button and published it. It's being critiqued as we speak! ;-)

[MacDawg]

The real art of buying a Mac...

Step 1: Pick out one you like
Step 2: Enjoy

Woof, Woof - Dawg http://homepage.mac.com/k.j.vinson/pawprint.gif

[Beric]

The real art of buying a Mac...

Step 1: Pick out one you like
Step 2: Enjoy

Woof, Woof - Dawg http://homepage.mac.com/k.j.vinson/pawprint.gif

If only it were.

[ditzy]

Thank you! I always strive for excellence in all my undertakings, so it warms my heart to see I've achieved superiority in this regard!



You got upset about my statement some people are more discerning than others? Perhaps you are not a very discerning person yourself. That is OK though. You don't have to be ashamed about being less discerning. But you should accept the fact more discerning people exist, and their opinions are valid among their kind.

I state a fact here, because ALL discerning people will say the same. Current iMac screens are not very good. You'll not find a difference of opinion among discerning people (meaning people with highly trained vision). You'll only find objections among people with out this acuity.

It's like wine. Connaiseurs will say wine A is excellent, and wine B is undrinkable crap. I can't tell a difference myself, because I simply don't know wine. That would never make me claim they are full of **** though. Of course people who know wine will taste differences where I don't. I respect their opinion as fully valid, but I'd save my money myself, and buy wine that's good enough for me.

Same thing with the iMac's screen quality. It's bad. All with sufficiently trained eyes agree. If it's still good enough to you, then you're in luck. Buy one.



Ah, you do have a new iMac! That's why you're on the defensive. Be glad you're blessed with the ability to enjoy it, instead of attacking those unfortunate who need better screens.

I'm glad I'm blessed with the ability to enjoy cheap wine. It doesn't make me less valuable as a human being, so I don't feel ashamed about it.

My problem is not that you don't like the screen on the iMac. If it isn't suitable for your needs that is perfectly fine with me. My issue is that you implied because I don't have a problem with the iMacs screen, that I am only buying the iMac to be trendy. Or that I would not be able to appreciate the difference between OSX and windows. It's as ridicules as saying that because you can't tell the difference between cheap an expensive wine, you absolutely can't appreciate opera, and you only eat gourmet food because you can afford it, and you want everyone else to know you can.

[jtgotsjets]

This thread seems way overly vigilant to me. I think people on MR get really paranoid about these kinds of issues- most of this is stuff the average consumer could care less about. This kind of post serves only to scare people.

The iMac is not recommended because of screen issues? What? I've seen the gradient problems people are convinced they have--frankly, if it takes hi-contrast photography and special monitor settings for your problem to arise, I think you have other problems. The vast majority of iMac users, I guarantee you, have perfect screens and have never so much as heard of MacRumors.

All this is is fear-mongering. If you need a new computer, buy one. If you don't like it later, return it.

ETA: I just read the rest of the thread, and wow, not only is the OP paranoid, but he's also pretentious and condescending! So sorry to doubt your "discerning eyes." and here I thought my years and years of experience looking at things was worth something.

[mrj205]

I state a fact here, because ALL discerning people will say the same.

Haha...this is great. Nothing is a fact unless it holds true 100% of the time, regardless of circumstance or situation. Something that is not true 100% of the time, regardless of circumstance or situation, is an opinion.

[Freewayjim]

I've never read anything that managed to say so little with so many words.

+1, LOL.

Also, IMO the piece lacks some credibility when the OP all but ignores the MacPro and the MacBook Air.

It's irrelevant that they are expensive, they are still viable options for some people and last time I checked, part of the limited as it may be Apple product line.

[Darth.Titan]

Two things in this novella made me write off the author and stop reading:


You imply buying one is tricky because an update could be around the corner? How is this any different from buying a PC? ANY technology purchase is a crapshoot. Besides that, even if an update comes out right after you buy that doesn't affect the fact that your machine runs just as well as it did when you bought it.
You imply that all new Apple hardware has "unsolved issues". This is just untrue. Every Mac I've ever owned has been a "1st revision". Every. Single. One. I've never had any problems with unsolved issues or hardware faults. They all worked just as well the day I sold them (years later) as the day I bought them.


Also OP, you might consider dialing down the condescension level a bit. You and your opinions are no better than anyone else's here.

[Demosthenes X]

Wow I think that the OP's post is the most condescending post I've ever read. Things that you have stated to be fact are actually opinion. Then asserting that any one who happens to disagree with your opinion are only buying macs to be trendy, or that they are simply not discerning enough to own a mac is especially condescending.

I agree. What a waste of kilobytes.

[jpyc7]

I agree. What a waste of kilobytes.

I stopped reading when the OP started saying that many Macs were lemons which would be fixed by Apple only with future version of hardware and leaving the earlier version buyers with faulty hardware. I couldn't take that paraphrased statement seriously since one would think Apple would be constantly recalling computers if it were true. Thus, I could not read any more of the very long post if it were to contain similarly ridiculous (in my opinion) statements.

[-hh]

...The first thing to realize is this: At any given time, most of Apples offerings are NOT RECOMMENDED PURCHASES! There are two main reasons for this.

First, it's quite possible the particular Apple hardware you're interested in currently has unsolved issues...

Generally capable of being resolved by doing research by letting "First Adopters" take the hit.

Second, the machine you want to buy may be due for an update soon.

True, although it depends on if you're going to wait for a major or minor update. For example, the Mac Pro has just had a major update (and it has now been out long enough for problems to surface), so the next update is likely to just be a minor speed bump.

In any event, the question is more of how urgent your needs are for a replacement - - the "wait for the next release" discipline is only buying probably around a 5-10% optimization, depending on if you're waiting 3 or 12 months.

To aid in your buying decisions, the current Mac lineup is presented below, with my advice.


1. Stationary computers.

The iMac line is currently NOT RECOMMENDED, because it has multiple screen issues. One problem is extreme glossiness from the glass covering, another is color gradients across the screen.

The gloss issue is particular to your setup location, and there's an aftermarket non-glare film by Photodon (http://www.photodon.com/c/APL.html) that helps.

The color gradient issue ... (Googling) ... dates from 2007?

It would be useful to have a credible citation that's <6 months old to see if this is honestly and truely a valid issue for current models.

The Mac Pro has always been way too expensive to even consider for me, so I've never bothered to keep track on it. It may be a fine buy right now, or it may not. Ask someone else.

If you're shopping for the power of a dual-CPU Xeon (Nehalem), its a great bargain.

But if you're only looking for 50%-80%" of that power level, since Apple doesn't make any other towers, you've hit a product gap. Don't blame this on Apple inasmuch as the fact that roughly 75% of all Mac sales are now laptops instead of desktops, so its financially hard to have more than just a few desktops without them becoming even more expensive. Manufacturing costs always have to be amortized across the quantities sold, and that number for desktops is falling off a cliff.

The Law of Diminishing Returns applies here, since its harder to increase performance by 5% when you're already at ~90% than to add another 5% when you're only running at ~75%. As the old racing adage goes: "Speed costs money, how fast can you afford to go?"

Regardless of what we're talking about, as you get closer to the top of the index performance chart, each increase costs progressively more. For example, the MP Octo's CPUs bump costs $350 per 0.1GHz for the increment up to 2.66GHz, then costs 27% more ($444 per 0.1GHz) for the increment from 2.66 to 2.93GHz.


The Macbook Air is also too expensive for me, considering what you get, so you'll have to ask someone else for opinions there as well. I just don't know.

Indeed. The MBA is a beautiful machine ... and reasonably good value ... for what it is intended to do. Unfortunately, most people don't really understand its design goal / market niche and thus just don't look beyond the CPU, RAM & HD specifications to then claim that you "Don't Get Much".

The MBA has to be viewed within the context of "weight first" and thus, how much you get in a mere 3lb package. Thus, it shouldn't ever be compared to 4lb, 5lb, 6lb, 7lb or 8lb laptops either for performance/features or price.

The Law of Diminishing Returns applies here, since its harder to shave a 1/2 lb off of a 4lb laptop than it is to shave a 1/2lb off of an 8lb laptop.

That's it. As you can see, buying a Mac entails some careful planning, if you want to get a machine you'll be happy with for a long time to come.

Saving another 999 words, the point is simply that a well-informed consumer is the most likely to find a value and be happy with it. How long has this been kept a secret? :cool:


-hh

[Mindmelter]

My problem is not that you don't like the screen on the iMac. If it isn't suitable for your needs that is perfectly fine with me. My issue is that you implied because I don't have a problem with the iMacs screen, that I am only buying the iMac to be trendy. Or that I would not be able to appreciate the difference between OSX and windows. It's as ridicules as saying that because you can't tell the difference between cheap an expensive wine, you absolutely can't appreciate opera, and you only eat gourmet food because you can afford it, and you want everyone else to know you can.

Aaah, but that's the beauty of generalizations: they usually work!

You prove this yourself by saying the fact I can't tell good wine from bad means I absolutely can't appreciate opera. The fun thing is I can't! I absolutely deplore opera! And you just derived this fact about me out of thin air, just from the fact all wine tastes the same to me. Amazing, isn't it?

Of course generalizations don't always work, but they're a very useful mental tool nonetheless.

My point about bringing up Windows is this:

It's actually irrational to insist on using "another OS", when the world has standardized on something Windows. If you decide to do so anyway, you better have a damn good reason to do so, just to make up for the inconveniences that inevitably come from not following the crowd. What it boils down to is, if you can stand to use Windows, you should. It's the best choice for you. But if Windows makes you want to puke, and Linux even more so, then perhaps you should find refuge in the Mac.

And this "pickiness", this inability to accept flaws in your OS, is positively correlated with an inability to accept flaws elsewhere as well. Which means it's not unreasonable to think someone who doesn't care about poor screen quality might not care about OS quality either. It won't always be true, and I could have specifically pointed that out more clearly, so as not to offend anyone. But, as many have already pointed out here, I tend to write sufficiently long texts as it is. A more sensitive and politically correct rewrite would be even longer!

[Spanners]

Seriously is the OP a Troll?

The great thing about democracy is that everyone is entitled to an opinion even when their opinion is total crock.

[Unprocessed1]

This is the most ridiculous opinion piece ever. The "faults" and "Advice" offered are almost jokes.

[YMark]

I agree. What a waste of kilobytes.

Another one that thinks the original post was a bunch of drivel. The "art" of buying a Mac. LOL. Get over yourself. Your post helps nobody.

[Unprocessed1]

Seriously is the OP a Troll?


Is this the scene you're imagining?

http://blogs.setonhill.edu/DenamarieErcolani/troll.jpg

[Mindmelter]

This thread seems way overly vigilant to me. I think people on MR get really paranoid about these kinds of issues- most of this is stuff the average consumer could care less about. This kind of post serves only to scare people.


Sure, the average customer couldn't care less. But the average customer sure ain't gonna research things on the net before shopping either, so what harm will it do to talk about things here, in a web forum supposedly about what to think about when you're buying a mac?


The iMac is not recommended because of screen issues? What? I've seen the gradient problems people are convinced they have--frankly, if it takes hi-contrast photography and special monitor settings for your problem to arise, I think you have other problems. The vast majority of iMac users, I guarantee you, have perfect screens and have never so much as heard of MacRumors.

All this is is fear-mongering. If you need a new computer, buy one. If you don't like it later, return it.


It does not take hi-contrast photography and special monitor settings for the problem to arise, it takes sitting down in front of the computer. The gradient problem is bad enough to constantly remind me of it, just by using the computer normally.


ETA: I just read the rest of the thread, and wow, not only is the OP paranoid, but he's also pretentious and condescending! So sorry to doubt your "discerning eyes." and here I thought my years and years of experience looking at things was worth something.

It's popular these days to deny any and all differences between people. And yet we're as different as ever. The fact is some people see things others don't. Some people think things others can't. To refuse to accept this, just because it would mean someone else is superior to you in some way, is profoundly immature, and a sign of an inferiority complex.

Tiger Woods beats me in golf. Big deal. I'm confident enough in my value not to have to attack people with abilities beyond my own.

This anti-intellectual "we're all the same" crap is the route to Pol Pot.


The color gradient issue ... (Googling) ... dates from 2007?


It's been there for a while...


It's still there. I bought two iMacs for my kids recently. Both have it. Every other iMac I've seen has had it too.

But of course, I have a bad case of pretentious and condescending eyes, so what do I know.

[Eric S.]

Simply referring potential buyers to http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/ would have been more useful, IMO.

[thunderweb]

Um excuse me but your acting as if Apple is the only company that has some hardware issues. Look at Dell, Sony, HP, nearly every other computer manufacturer and they will have issues and I'm willing to bet way more than Apple.

I agree with the guy who said your a troll :p

Oh and btw I own 5 macs and have never had an issue with any of them at all.

[Demosthenes X]

I bought two iMacs for my kids recently.

So, you're advice is not to buy an iMac? Then why in the world did you buy two of them?
:rolleyes:

[hopefulmacuser]

is it just me or do i love how the OP speaks
i envy it and wish i could replicate it while toning it down just to suit my own personality =)


although it pushes people to opinionize one way about certain apple products, it seems nonetheless resourceful with a plethora of information that one can use individually to determine their own taste for the perfect mac.

[thunderweb]

is it just me or do i love how the OP speaks
i envy it and wish i could replicate it while toning it down just to suit my own personality =)


although it pushes people to opinionize one way about certain apple products, it seems nonetheless resourceful with a plethora of information that one can use individually to determine their taste for the perfect mac.

Baffling with bulls*** is a skill that is easily acquired ;)
Talking to people like they are idiots on the other hand is just annoying.

[ditzy]

Aaah, but that's the beauty of generalizations: they usually work!

You prove this yourself by saying the fact I can't tell good wine from bad means I absolutely can't appreciate opera. The fun thing is I can't! I absolutely deplore opera! And you just derived this fact about me out of thin air, just from the fact all wine tastes the same to me. Amazing, isn't it?

Of course generalizations don't always work, but they're a very useful mental tool nonetheless.

My point about bringing up Windows is this:

It's actually irrational to insist on using "another OS", when the world has standardized on something Windows. If you decide to do so anyway, you better have a damn good reason to do so, just to make up for the inconveniences that inevitably come from not following the crowd. What it boils down to is, if you can stand to use Windows, you should. It's the best choice for you. But if Windows makes you want to puke, and Linux even more so, then perhaps you should find refuge in the Mac.

And this "pickiness", this inability to accept flaws in your OS, is positively correlated with an inability to accept flaws elsewhere as well. Which means it's not unreasonable to think someone who doesn't care about poor screen quality might not care about OS quality either. It won't always be true, and I could have specifically pointed that out more clearly, so as not to offend anyone. But, as many have already pointed out here, I tend to write sufficiently long texts as it is. A more sensitive and politically correct rewrite would be even longer!

Everything in life has flaws. Most people tend to buy products which have the flaws they can live with, and not the ones that they can't. I do not see an issue with my iMac's screen so for me that isn't a flaw. For me the biggest flaw of the iMac was the price, but I can happily live with that flaw.

[Mindmelter]

is it just me or do i love how the OP speaks
i envy it and wish i could replicate it while toning it down just to suit my own personality =)


Thank you! That was the sweetest thing anyone has said to me in a long time!

I too sometimes wish I could tone myself down a bit, just to be able to communicate with people better. It would be nice to be able to state my opinion on ... anything really, without constantly getting attacked for it.

Oh well, my manner of expressing myself unfortunately fits my personality like a glove. I've come to understand a long time ago the only reason I get attacked, is because most people really, truly, deeply HATE me.

It's an interesting phenomenom to say the least. But I wouldn't want to adapt myself to be better "liked" anyway. It's better to know the truth about how people see you. And the truth is, most people are my mortal enemies, as I learned already at kindergarten.

I believe they hate me for me brains.

They believe they hate me because I'm an a**hole.

While I'm guilty as charged there, that can't be it, since I've found people always admire **********. But they do hate the brainy kid. Always have, always will. They instinctly know the brainy kid is better than them, so they bully him into submission. Getting his or her head flushed in the toilet will teach every brainy kid to hide his smarts from public view from there on.

All brainy kids know of which I speak, it's a universal problem.

Bullies really like the idea "everyone's opinion is worth the same", because it means the brainy kids can't use their superior smarts to climb to a position above them. This idea is thus one of the most effective weapons in the bullies quest for world dominance.

[Mindmelter]

So, you're advice is not to buy an iMac? Then why in the world did you buy two of them?
:rolleyes:

The alternative would have been a couple of PC's...

But I probably should have went that route anyway. My kids are usually booted in XP to play games, so giving them Macs is like casting pearls before swine.

[Eric S.]

I believe they hate me for me brains.

Yeah, I'm sure that's it.

[opinioncircle]

While I'm guilty as charged there, that can't be it, since I've found people always admire **********. But they do hate the brainy kid. Always have, always will. They instinctly know the brainy kid is better than them, so they bully him into submission. Getting his or her head flushed in the toilet will teach every brainy kid to hide his smarts from public view from there on.

All brainy kids know of which I speak, it's a universal problem.

Bullies really like the idea "everyone's opinion is worth the same", because it means the brainy kids can't use their superior smarts to climb to a position above them. This idea is thus one of the most effective weapons in the bullies quest for world dominance.

Well, I don't consider myself a "brainy kid" or anything, but let me tell you that the few ones that tried to "bully" me have met my two brothers: Left and Right (if you see what I'm referring to). I don't really see/understand how could people let themselves be bullied. If you're that smart, you bulk up, and your kick the so-called bully's butt...
And I am not a bully either, but I consider that everyone's opinion is worth the same. If a AA regular or a wine specialist tell me that THIS wine is good, and I don't like it, I just don't like it period...Oh yeah, one last thing, we're all mortals, so in a way everyone's opinion is worth the same, because we'll all finish the same way, got that you brainy kid :D?

[DesignerOnMac]

"The iMac line is currently NOT RECOMMENDED, because it has multiple screen issues. One problem is extreme glossiness from the glass covering, another is color gradients across the screen. I have seen a lot of iMacs in person, and all of them have the gradient problem; it's a technical design flaw. Some people say they are the lucky owners of a machine without color gradients. I say some people are the lucky owners of less discerning visual acuity, and aren't bothered with the problem. The iMac screens are currently awful. That is a fact. If you don't agree, it simply means this particular kind of awful is good enough for you. If your standards are low in general, perhaps you should save some money and get a PC instead. I say this as a friendly advice."

I had several G4 Towers w/ACDs. When I needed to upgrade, I could not afford a Macpro!

I purchased an iMac, Rev. A aluminum, 2.8 Extreme w/24" monitor. Before I purchased this computer, I read for weeks all the issues with the screens, etc. I got to the point where I needed to upgrade, so I purchased the above iMac. I calibrated the monitor, etc. (The 20" iMac does have a different and cheaper screen than the 24".) This iMac is on 14-16 hours a day, 7 days a week!

I totally disagree with you on how awful the screen is. As a print and website designer, accurate color is critical to me. I have also not had any issues with the glossy screen. (Back when CRTs were the order of the day, I used to have to be in a totally dark room.)

I also do semi-pro photography with several clients, with an 8 MP camera. Some pictures need to be reworked in Photoshop, etc. I have never gotten a different result on ANY printed piece in the 1.5 years I have owned this iMac. Nor do I see any differences in color on any websites I have designed on anyone else's mac or PC!

Yes, I would love to own and work on a MacPro, but with the economy the way it is, and my reduced income, the iMac suits my needs, (and my clients), as a professional designer and photographer.

[Mindmelter]

Yeah, I'm sure that's it.

I was counting the seconds before some wise Alec would say something like that...

I really don't understand why people have such a difficulty accepting people differ in intellect. They differ in all other regards, why wouldn't they differ in intellect as well?

I may be smart, but not smart enough to figure that one out...

Just to annoy you even more, I'm going to do the Ultimate Forbidden Thing, and actually tell you preciisely how smart I really am! There's nothing intellectually insecure people hate more than when someone dares to say they're intelligent.

Oh boy, this is going to be fun! :-))

You see, a professionally done IQ test which took days to perform gave me a general IQ of 148. Some subsections of intelligence were lower, some higher. Logical ability scored 160+ for instance (I've forgotten the exact number).

This puts me in the bordering on genius category.

But I didn't need to take a test to know that. I learned to read and write fluently when I was five. I had read more books before I began school than some people read in a lifetime.

But it's more than that. Most people have no idea what the mind of a truly intelligent individual is capable of. They assume a brilliant mind is about the same as their own, perhaps a little faster at figuring things out. But it really means the ability to figure out things the less brainy people simply cannot, no matter how much time they're given.

For instance, when I tinker with math for fun, I find new interesting fields of study noone has found before. It's very exciting to find new things, knowing I'm boldly threading where no man has went before.

Normal people don't grasp math. At all.

Clever people can learn existing math from a textbook.

Truly brilliant people like me can pull new math right out of the ether.

That's the difference.

And it's not like my talent is limited to math. I can do ANYTHING I set my mind to. That's how it is to be a brainy kid.

When I fancied checking Einstein's relativity theory out (yes, brainy kids do such things for entertainment), it didn't take me long to find logical holes in his argumentation. Einstein cheated mathematically in critical places. When I dug a bit deeper, I found a set of equations on my own, that proves a very interesting thing: Our Universe isn't relative at all. There exists a hidden order beneath the surface. In this hidden order, time is universally the same, not relative as Einstein postulated. There exists a mathematical transformation between the visible world and the hidden underlying reality. I found the equations. Noone else has them, or at least noone the world has heard about. Who knows. There may be some other brainy kid out there who won't bother to publish either!

I've invented stuff too. I do so many things I keep forgetting about them, but I do remember I dreamt up an Ion pump with no moving parts sometime in my teens, among other ideas.

And I play musical instruments, and was actually a decent rock singer in my youth. I had full control over my voice over a 3.5 octave range. You see, brains can be used in all of life's endeavors. If you put brains to the task of singing, you can reach heights of performance others can't.

Oh, another thing: English isn't my native language. It sometimes sounds to people I'm an American or something, but I'm not. I'm just brilliant enough to master other languages if I set my mind to it!

The brainy kids like me have only two problems in life:

1. They have a hard time deciding what to do with their immense supply of talent. Time is as limited to them as it is to anyone else. Pursuing one field inevitably leaves other fields unexplored. I'm still struggling with this one.

2. The bullies of the world just won't leave them alone. Ever. They make the brainy kid's life hell in kindergarten, in school, and in the workplace. It never ends. Eventually the brainy kid stops trying altogether. It's all too obvious the world does not want what he has to give to it. So why bother trying to push it on them? I'm still struggling there as well...

I'm smart. Really smart. I'm one of those people who could invent free energy and save this world. But I don't do it. Why? Because frankly the world doesn't deserve to be saved. Why should I give more tools to the bullies, so they can oppress everyone even further?

Nah, nowadays I just mind my own business. Among my hobbies are writing random stuff on the internet, and watching people fume over it. I don't write anything to annoy anyone. They get annoyed anyway.

[Mindmelter]

Well, I don't consider myself a "brainy kid" or anything, but let me tell you that the few ones that tried to "bully" me have met my two brothers: Left and Right (if you see what I'm referring to). I don't really see/understand how could people let themselves be bullied. If you're that smart, you bulk up, and your kick the so-called bully's butt...
And I am not a bully either, but I consider that everyone's opinion is worth the same. If a AA regular or a wine specialist tell me that THIS wine is good, and I don't like it, I just don't like it period...Oh yeah, one last thing, we're all mortals, so in a way everyone's opinion is worth the same, because we'll all finish the same way, got that you brainy kid :D?

So, rather than solving the worlds problems, you'd like the brainy kids to spend their time beating up bullies?

I don't know why God sent us here, but I'm pretty sure that's not it...

But we all die in the end. You got that right.

[thunderweb]

Wow boasting about you IQ and saying you are borderline genius just because you want to rub it in someone's face does not mean you are smart. You seem to be an arrogant arse that loves gloating about himself.

Oh and by the way, ANYONE can do ANYTHING they set their mind to not just you. You're not Albert Einstein, you just think you are and that's what gets under peoples skin.

It's actually laughable how ignorant you sound. Pride before the fall buddy.

[Mindmelter]

I totally disagree with you on how awful the screen is. As a print and website designer, accurate color is critical to me. I have also not had any issues with the glossy screen. (Back when CRTs were the order of the day, I used to have to be in a totally dark room.)

I also do semi-pro photography with several clients, with an 8 MP camera. Some pictures need to be reworked in Photoshop, etc. I have never gotten a different result on ANY printed piece in the 1.5 years I have owned this iMac. Nor do I see any differences in color on any websites I have designed on anyone else's mac or PC!

Yes, I would love to own and work on a MacPro, but with the economy the way it is, and my reduced income, the iMac suits my needs, (and my clients), as a professional designer and photographer.

The iMac works for you. Great. Perhaps yours is less bad than usual, so that it doesn't bother you. Consider yourself lucky in that case. But the color gradient peoblem is still rampant in the iMac line.

As one of my multiple areas of expertise happens to be electronics, I even know exactly what is causing the problem:

A cheap-o power inverter with DC-leakage driving the CCFL tube backlighting the display, causing the color temp of the tube to vary across the length. It's a design flaw. Two bucks spent in the right place would fix it. Apple will rather add those two bucks to their now considerable pile of bucks. I think it's outrageous, which is why I make a big deal out of it.

But of course, since almost noone cares anyway, why shouldn't they pocket the two bucks rather than spending them on improving the product? I'm beginning to understand their thinking.

[thunderweb]

If you really don't like macs that much and find that all of them are so flawed that you wouldn't buy them then why don't you switch to pc? It's most defiantly not our loss...

[Freewayjim]

I was counting the seconds before some wise Alec would say something like that...

I really don't understand why people have such a difficulty accepting people differ in intellect. They differ in all other regards, why wouldn't they differ in intellect as well?

You see, a professionally done IQ test which took days to perform gave me a general IQ of 148. Some subsections of intelligence were lower, some higher. Logical ability scored 160+ for instance (I've forgotten the exact number).

This puts me in the bordering on genius category.

But I didn't need to take a test to know that. I learned to read and write fluently when I was five. I had read more books before I began school than some people read in a lifetime.

But it's more than that. Most people have no idea what the mind of a truly intelligent individual is capable of. They assume a brilliant mind is about the same as their own, perhaps a little faster at figuring things out. But it really means the ability to figure out things the less brainy people simply cannot, no matter how much time they're given.

Normal people don't grasp math. At all.

Truly brilliant people like me can pull new math right out of the ether.

That's the difference.

And it's not like my talent is limited to math. I can do ANYTHING I set my mind to. That's how it is to be a brainy kid.


The brainy kids like me have only two problems in life:

1. They have a hard time deciding what to do with their immense supply of talent. Time is as limited to them as it is to anyone else. Pursuing one field inevitably leaves other fields unexplored. I'm still struggling with this one.

2. The bullies of the world just won't leave them alone. Ever. They make the brainy kid's life hell in kindergarten, in school, and in the workplace. It never ends. Eventually the brainy kid stops trying altogether. It's all too obvious the world does not want what he has to give to it. So why bother trying to push it on them? I'm still struggling there as well...

I'm smart. Really smart. I'm one of those people who could invent free energy and save this world. But I don't do it. Why? Because frankly the world doesn't deserve to be saved. Why should I give more tools to the bullies, so they can oppress everyone even further?

OK, I am not a proponent of bullying in any way shape or form but if you walk around with an attitude like that is it really a shock to learn that you might piss some people off? The dumber the person you piss off the more likely you are to get bullied?

The problem with many "brainy" types is that while they may mean well, they tend to lack empathy and other basic social skills. Nobody's perfect.

[Eric S.]

I was counting the seconds before some wise Alec would say something like that...

I'm sure you were.

[Mindmelter]

Wow boasting about you IQ and saying you are borderline genius just because you want to rub it in someone's face does not mean you are smart. You seem to be an arrogant arse that loves gloating about himself.

Oh and by the way, ANYONE can do ANYTHING they set their mind to not just you. You're not Albert Einstein, you just think you are and that's what gets under peoples skin.

It's actually laughable how ignorant you sound. Pride before the fall buddy.

I knew this would be the next response.

Do you really think I care about whether you believe me or not? Honestly, the only reason I sometimes write things like that, is that maybe some other brainy kid may happen to read it and think "thank God, I'm not alone after all!"

We brainy kids live isolated lives, see. Normal people live out their lives surrounded by equals. We rarely meet equals in real life because, well, extreme intelligence is a RARE thing. It's always a great pleasure to see someone of your own kind, even if it's just on the internet. Imagine if you were stranded on an alien planet, and suddenly layd eyes on another human being. You wouldn't care about race or religion, that human being would instantly be your best buddy. That's precisely how we brainiacs feel when we meet each other.

You telling me I'm not smart hurts my feelings about this much:


--->||<---


Why? Because, contrary to what you believe, someone's opinion matter only to the degree they know something of what they speak. You do not even know what being ultra-intelligent is. Why would I care about your opinion on the matter?

But of course, you're really writing for your equals as well. You want to score bully points among your peers by flushing the brainiac's head. What else is new.

In the end, I will leave this place, and you will have "won". All your peers here will agree. You will be happy to be rid of mne.

I will not care. My revenge against your lot is EXACTLY what I have stated:

I will not invent free energy for your benefit. You are not worth it.

You simply WILL NOT respect those who could help you, and receive their aid. You are to proud, or too stupid, to even admit you need it.

Remember that when society disintegrates around you for a lack of energy. Perhaps you should have been a bit nicer to the brainy kids after all. Not just me, all of us. Think back to your school days. Think of the kid you bullied, or let others bully without interfering. He needed your help then, but you didn't give it. You need his help now, but he's returning the favor.

Karma. It's a bitch.

[Xfujinon]

Most epic thread ever.

I love the part about disproving Einstein's relativity equations. Fascinating.

I've always gotten a chuckle out of the self-ascribed genius who consciously chooses to withhold the products of their bountiful intellect from the rest of the peons of this world simply because they can do it. Surely someone that smart would have already figured out that it would be much more self-serving to unleash the products of your limitless intellect unto the world, profit from their outcomes, and then disappear and live in an encapsulated world of your own design? I mean, disproving Einstein's mathematics would essentially make you the most important figure in modern scientific history, to say the least, the most impressive mathematician in recent memory.

So why not do it? You could become rich, powerful, and separate yourself permanently from the "bullies" and other jagoffs your pulsating brain despises. You could build a giant house like Bill Gates, fill it with intellectually stimulating things, and hide there for the remainder of your natural biological life...that is until your burgeoning intellect (pulsing with a vital force in resonance with the Cosmic Great Electron) casts off your meat body and attains a state of pure energy, dissipating into the cosmos to uncover mysteries beyond our puny mortal flesh brain comprehension.

Do I have that about right?

I got my IQ tested once. It told me some numbers. I still laugh at fart jokes and occasionally watch Asian porno.

However, I do agree with many of your observations about the Mac and its purchase. The digressions, however, about bullies and your intellectual capacity are misplaced in this audience. A Paris coffee shop full of freshly minted Ivy League graduates so smart they pay $20 for .19 worth of coffee beans would be more appropriate.

Happy trails infuriating people on the interweb!

[Mindmelter]

OK, I am not a proponent of bullying in any way shape or form but if you walk around with an attitude like that is it really a shock to learn that you might piss some people off? The dumber the person you piss off the more likely you are to get bullied?

The problem with many "brainy" types is that while they may mean well, they tend to lack empathy and other basic social skills. Nobody's perfect.

What's wrong with my attitude really? Can you please spell it out for me?

You speak of brainy people lacking "social skills".

The thing is, most people do NOTHING with their lives, other than honing their social skills! NOTHING! School is a place to socialize to them, not a place for learning. Most people want to know when the next party is, and who's bringing the booze. That's it.

Brainy people have other interests than social skills. It's precisely these interests that make them invaluable to society.

But rather than giving the fruits of their unique talents to the world, you want the brainiacs to learn to chug a keg of beer like everyone else. If they won't do that, well then they deserve to be bullied.

OK, that's your opinion. And as we know, your opinion is worth exactly as much as anyone elses. And since there are more of your kind than of the brainiacs, you're always right by the rule of majority.

Once again, no free energy for you sir.

[mscriv]

I was counting the seconds before some wise Alec would say something like that...

Oh boy, this is going to be fun! :-))

Among my hobbies are writing random stuff on the internet, and watching people fume over it.

Quite entertaining. The thing that you are definitely right about is that some people just don't get it and can't see what others can. Probably because they lack the ability to read between the lines... ;)
__________________________________________________________________
He or She is using those of you who are silly enough to engage as toys for personal amusement. The writing skills and quick wit are obvious and the subsequent debate provides a stage for performance. If you wish to participate because you enjoy the interaction yourself then do so, but don't be so foolish as to see it as anything more than entertainment.
_________________________________________________________________

[-hh]

It does not take hi-contrast photography and special monitor settings for the problem to arise, it takes sitting down in front of the computer.

Gradients have been a fact of life with displays for as long as they've been available, and they generally are only evident when one is looking at a monolithic monochrome that encompasses an ~80% majority of the desktop....ie, a big blank screen. Doesn't matter if we're talking about LCDs or CRTs.

As such, a typical quality photograph will have subject complexity which conceals, not reveals.


The gradient problem is bad enough to constantly remind me of it, just by using the computer normally.

Psychosomatic. There's a couple of spots in my bathroom that have the same effect on me. However, I recognize this as being psychosomatic: I see the flaw because I know its there and that irritates me.

In the same bathroom, those who aren't aware of the problem won't even notice it until its pointed out to them. So its not that the flaw isn't there, but is merely reflective of it being sufficiently minor that it fails to cross the average awareness threshhold.

It's still there. I bought two iMacs for my kids recently. Both have it. Every other iMac I've seen has had it too.

Yet neither of your kids have posted complaints here about it.
Nor did you provide any cites of anyone else mentioning this in 2009.

Afterall, its not like it takes a lot of intelligence to use Google as a research tool. :rolleyes:

But of course, I have a bad case of pretentious and condescending eyes, so what do I know.

Unfortunately, having a brand new account on a forum that has had plenty of WinFan trolls lately and levelling these sorts of complaints is going to be viewed with a certain degree of well-deserved mistrust. As such, if you're going to make certain types of (negative) claims, it would bode you well to back up those claims with credible citations, rather than trying to play the "Trust Me" card.

To give you an example of a "Trust Me", I've been told by many coworkers and peers that I'm an "excellent" photographer. Self-depreciatingly and without being pretentious, I simply follow the rule of the big trash can and thus avoid showing people 90% of what I shoot. In any event, one of the gentlemen who I learned photography from - - he worked professionally in the field back in the 70s - - recently coverted from Windows to Apple and ended up buying a glossy 24" iMac. I had provided some IT advice along the way and we chat around 1-2x/month about how things have been going. He has said that his new iMac "boots fast" and has a "beautiful" display.

So if these banding problems were so horrible and prevalent as you've suggested ... then why hasn't this former photography industry professional noticed & mentioned it to me yet?


-hh

[thunderweb]

You know what I find interesting is that you generalize everyone as being insignificant, mindless, stupid, in-superior little humans and you think of yourself as a genius that is so high above everyone else. So what if your 'IQ' is higher than mine? At least I'm willing to do what you think is 'stooping' to a lower level and criticize you for being pompous. I could care less if I hurt your 'feelings' and I don't give a crap if you give me free energy or not! You know why? Because long after I'm gone weather you give the world free energy or not the world will still be falling apart and that's ok with me! There is a bigger picture than what you seem to portray. I'm not going to get into it with you because despite your attempts to win everyone over with your thinking and make us bow down at your feet you have done nothing more than make people realize that you really are an a**hole. Good day to you sir, I hope to never see you on this forum again.

I think this thread is ready for the Wasteland.

[Mindmelter]

Most epic thread ever.

I love the part about disproving Einstein's relativity equations. Fascinating.

I've always gotten a chuckle out of the self-ascribed genius who consciously chooses to withhold the products of their bountiful intellect from the rest of the peons of this world simply because they can do it. Surely someone that smart would have already figured out that it would be much more self-serving to unleash the products of your limitless intellect unto the world, profit from their outcomes, and then disappear and live in an encapsulated world of your own design? I mean, disproving Einstein's mathematics would essentially make you the most important figure in modern scientific history, to say the least, the most impressive mathematician in recent memory.


Not really. Lots of people have disproved Einstein a long time ago. You've never heard of them because the scientific establishment and the media will not let them speak. But you can find them on the internet, in case you're interested.

Einstein is an ICON to the people, nothing more. Say "intelligent", and people think of Einstein. Say "evil" and people think of Hitler. Other people can be both more intelligent and more evil than these iconic figures, but that doesn't fit the normal person's worldview, so he immediately rejects the idea.

The extremely evil prosper greatly by the protection this affords them, by the way.

Funny how you "always" chose to disbelieve anyone who claims to be smarter than you. It never occurs to you they could be right, and the only reason they have to bring it up is pure frustration trying to talk to you.


So why not do it? You could become rich, powerful, and separate yourself permanently from the "bullies" and other jagoffs your pulsating brain despises. You could build a giant house like Bill Gates, fill it with intellectually stimulating things, and hide there for the remainder of your natural biological life...that is until your burgeoning intellect (pulsing with a vital force in resonance with the Cosmic Great Electron) casts off your meat body and attains a state of pure energy, dissipating into the cosmos to uncover mysteries beyond our puny mortal flesh brain comprehension.

Do I have that about right?


This sounds like a plan to me. I'd certainly do it, if I could figure out a MORAL way to do it. Unfortunately, most get-rich-schemes are inherently immoral.


I got my IQ tested once. It told me some numbers. I still laugh at fart jokes and occasionally watch Asian porno.

However, I do agree with many of your observations about the Mac and its purchase. The digressions, however, about bullies and your intellectual capacity are misplaced in this audience. A Paris coffee shop full of freshly minted Ivy League graduates so smart they pay $20 for .19 worth of coffee beans would be more appropriate.

Happy trails infuriating people on the interweb!

I'm glad you got some numbers. At least you weren't off the low end of the charts!

The digressions are misplaced in any kind of audiance I know of. Or should I try my luck in France? You make it sound tempting!

[YMark]

Mindmelter, you're a loner and got your ass kicked growing up. I can't imagine why.

[Mindmelter]

Quite entertaining. The thing that you are definitely right about is that some people just don't get it and can't see what others can. Probably because they lack the ability to read between the lines... ;)
__________________________________________________________________
He or She is using those of you who are silly enough to engage as toys for personal amusement. The writing skills and quick wit are obvious and the subsequent debate provides a stage for performance. If you wish to participate because you enjoy the interaction yourself then do so, but don't be so foolish as to see it as anything more than entertainment.
_________________________________________________________________

You're really clever! I thoroughly enjoyed your 'hidden message' as well! That's not all there is to it, but it's certainly a factor...

[thunderweb]

By the way, to your comment about how us "bullies" say the things we do to get our "equals" to join along with us. Well, unfortunately for you, there is strength in numbers.

If we were all like you can you only imagine how miserable of a place this world would be?

[NT1440]

Anyone else chuckle when the "brainiac" goes and talks about god? :p