New PowerMac Photos? [Archive]

keysersoze

Jun 3, 2004, 12:48 PM

But I'm wondering what the extra space in the lower left corner is for...

There IS a lot of space down there. I am only seeing 4 RAM slots, like you... which is weird considering the placement of them puts them right next to the big empty hole. Maybe they will have future expansion RAM there...I haven't a clue.

EDIT: The article actually says the space could be used for 1TB of storage...why didn't I think of that?!? :o :)

Veldek

Jun 3, 2004, 01:02 PM

EDIT: The article actually says the space could be used for 1TB of storage...why didn't I think of that?!? :o :)

Yeah, I read that, too, but why should there be some harddisks and some others on the whole other side of the Power Mac. I can't imagine this being very efficient considering that there has to be some kind of connection.

keysersoze

Jun 3, 2004, 01:06 PM

Yeah, I read that, too, but why should there be some harddisks and some others on the whole other side of the Power Mac. I can't imagine this being very efficient considering that there has to be some kind of connection.

Right. And I am not sure how the HD's would mount in there anyway...they took out the metal separator... so I wonder how they could reside in there. And the vertical fans are gone...1TB of storage would require a lot of fans, I would think. I don't know though, considering I've never been in the presence of so much storage capacity. :)

ckelley

Jun 3, 2004, 01:09 PM

There is no way tis will be quad :rolleyes:
I was snooping around in the System folder looking for a file and there was a configuration file for the About This Mac window (not a .plist, maybe a .bundle, I can't remember). In there were configurations for Single, Dual, Triple, and Quadruple Processor configurations. Now that could be just covering the bases, maybe for use in a server environment, but I figured I'd point it out.

slughead

Jun 3, 2004, 01:30 PM

The bad news: still only one optical drive and not more space for the harddisks in the upper right corner. But I'm wondering what the extra space in the lower left corner is for...

And why are there only 4 RAM slots? :confused:

There are now 2GB DDR ram sticks available, maybe apple things we don't need more than 8GB RAM..

BTW someone said that intel can't have more than 4.x GB ram in their mobos, which is untrue. Intel's mobos use some weird RAM emulation thing where they have 42bit addressing (someone do the math).. anyways I'm pretty sure that means intel's mobos (even on 32bit processors) can go higher than 8GB (which is apple's artificial max).

slughead

Jun 3, 2004, 01:33 PM

There is no way tis will be quad :rolleyes:

I don't see why not, aside from the production problems with the 90NM.. but that never stopped Apple from 'releasing' the product anyway and just saying "unavailable until rapture."

Jobs said "3ghz in 1 year".. maybe this is his way of making it up to us for making fuctarded promises :)

MacRumors

Jun 3, 2004, 01:36 PM

Appleinsider published photos (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=474) from new service and repair documents for the Apple PowerMac G5 which depict a yet unreleased PowerMac G5.

The revised model looks identical to the current PowerMac G5 on the outside, but feature notable differences in the internal design.

Changes show a larger unified heatsink cover (with G5 label), significantly smaller motherboard, vertically placed RAM slots.

nagromme

Jun 3, 2004, 01:40 PM

voodoo007

Jun 3, 2004, 01:42 PM

wOOt! Dual 3Ghz...Here I come!!

Mr.Hey

Jun 3, 2004, 01:42 PM

I'm giddy as a school girl! :D I can't wait for WWDC...

SuperChuck

Jun 3, 2004, 01:42 PM

Hmmm...further confirmation of a Powermac update at WWDC?

Was there any chance that we wouldn't see a Powermac update?

Mr.Hey

Jun 3, 2004, 01:44 PM

This is great news!

bar italia

Jun 3, 2004, 01:49 PM

This is great news!

So why exactly is this "great" news? Be specific.

DWKlink

Jun 3, 2004, 01:49 PM

Well the original photo is of a single cpu machine. I know that there were rumors in these threads that the new g5s would be single proc machines - i just can't see apple doing that.

Keep in mind that if they do use 970fx, its a much smaller chip - so there could be 2 underneath that sink.

strider42

Jun 3, 2004, 01:51 PM

How can apple legal get involved? They are in their own service manuals that have been released by apple, it's not like the pictures have been stolen. Probably leaked on purpose to create hype ala leaked G5 specs on the web last year.

Just because apple released them doesn't necessarily give other websites the right to publish them on their webpages. Apple legal could get any website to take down any copyrighted material they want.

eyeluvmyimac

Jun 3, 2004, 01:52 PM

i hope this isnt real...although considering its on apples site i suppose it must be...but i dont like the new pics....there dont appear to be many changes...nothing like the specs that were posted on page 2 a while back. and whats with 4 ram slots? 2gb sticks are wicked expensive...

wPod

Jun 3, 2004, 01:56 PM

hopefully it means MORE POWER!!!! 3GHZ at WWDC?!!!?!!!

Dreadnought

Jun 3, 2004, 01:57 PM

klaus

Jun 3, 2004, 01:58 PM

Give me a link to these new manuals on Apple's website and then I believe this is true! The big heatsink could mean the new fluid coolingsystem. There where rumors about them a while back for such a thing in a powerbook. It also explains the big gap on the left of the pictures. It could be some sort of arconditioning thing that fits in there (not harddisks!!).

I think those documents are not publicly accessible on the apple.com site.
But maybe a tech guy could post a screenshot while showing the document in a safari browser or some other confirmation of genuinity (or how do you write that? :))

Mr.Hey

Jun 3, 2004, 02:05 PM

So why exactly is this "great" news? Be specific.

because-because-because-because!!! :p I'll choose to be hopeful and keep the faith, than to become sourpusses like yous! :D

Frobozz

Jun 3, 2004, 02:10 PM

Very interesting. I only see 4 Ram slots though... Maybe this is just the low end model...

Cool, this must mean an all-dual lineup.

Actually, I think that means each RAM slot can hold larger capacity chips (2GB per slot?) Rumors have indicated that the new RAM would be no less than PC3200, which is what they use in the XServe (more or less).

vouder17

Jun 3, 2004, 02:16 PM

thatwendigo

Jun 3, 2004, 02:18 PM

Alright, I know that a lot of you had to be expecting me to chip in on this, so here I am, ready and willing to interpret what those pictures might meam. I've been advocating the idea that the PowerMac G5 - as we know it - could be dropped down to the lower end and replaced with a newer system that answers some of the complaints about the older chassis. The obvious thing to do would be to keep the design basically as it is, but make a couple of revisions while you're moving to the 90nm part.

If you stop to think about it, Apple has long been in the game of making the quietest computer that they can. In the picture of the supposed newer motherboard design, we see only 4 RAM banks and a reductionin the number of fans, and this would actually be in line with the creation of a single processor consumer tower. The large heatsink cover is there to transfer more heat without the need for the fans, and I could see at least three fans being eliminated in this case - two intake fans in front of the processors and one behind, where a dual would have a second exhaust fan. That means that the machine is down to six instead of nine, and likely quieter when you factor in that the 970FX is roughly a 50% reduction in heat at the same speed, leaving a single 2.0ghz as a relatively cool (for a desktop) 24.9 watts typical expenditure. The question now is whether that slot above the heatsink is AGP 8x or PCI Express, because that would be the final piece of the puzzle. The inclusion of a PCI Express would go a long way to mollifying those who constantly cry about the lack of graphics cards, especially if Apple cuts a deal with ATI to get those spanking new x300, x600, and x800 cards to be available.

So... This could be a dual-processor 970FX, but if is, then I don't expect any speedbumps at all, because they're cutting fans out, and ramping up the core clock would start taking the 90nm part up towards its old heat, to the point that I think a 2.6-3.0ghz machine would be pushing 40-50 watts again and need the same cooling system.

gensor

Jun 3, 2004, 02:18 PM

autrefois

Jun 3, 2004, 02:20 PM

Finally, some good news! We don't know the specifics, but this shows there is definitely a new PM G5 coming out very soon.

Maybe the extra space is for optional installation of iCool: Apple-branded bags of ice to cool the thing down. :)

Frobozz

Jun 3, 2004, 02:21 PM

hopefully it means MORE POWER!!!! 3GHZ at WWDC?!!!?!!!

Yeah, baby. Here we come... 3.0GHz.

charlesc

Jun 3, 2004, 02:23 PM

Sources also note the apparent disappearance of the front inlet fans cooling the CPUs

This is pure guessing (more fuel for the fire), but... No front inlet fans, smaller motherboard = less heat = smaller chip? = 90nm = 970fx? (xserve = smaller/less heat = 90nm = 970fx)

If a 9XX power 5 variant really exists, and it is at 130nm like the power 5, how could it require less cooling in this case? Damn I was really hoping for this mystery 975 or whatever, but if these are real photo's.. hmm. It could be a single proc though, if real.

sedarby

Jun 3, 2004, 02:23 PM

There does seem to be a lack of original content. ;)

Frobozz

Jun 3, 2004, 02:24 PM

Well that is what i think, if you think i am wrong don't give me S***.DjVoTeZ

Eh, it's a rumors site. We're here to speculate. No harm, no foul.

SeaFox

Jun 3, 2004, 02:24 PM

I can't pull up the enlarged view of the pictures. They all give a broken image link on a page. All I can look at are the small versions in the article.

Oh, and poo on no dual optical drives!

Photorun

Jun 3, 2004, 02:27 PM

I don't get it, where did the big fans in front of the processors go? I only see what looks like one now?

Mr.Hey

Jun 3, 2004, 02:31 PM

I can't pull up the enlarged view of the pictures.
:)
http://users.rcn.com/muisca/G5Service.jpg

autrefois

Jun 3, 2004, 02:31 PM

Does Macrumors get all its news from AppleInsider?

Appleinsider (http://appleinsider.com) has just announced that Macrumors receives all of its rumors from Appleinsider. In fact, they correctly predicted that Macrumors will post this story, as well.

;)

But seriously, Macrumors has been really good in the past. I think that there simply isn't anything out there right now—probably due to delays in PM development and maybe in light of a couple recent snafus (including the infamous posting of PM specs early). Maybe Jobs has said that heads will roll if anything gets leaked by any means.

macridah

Jun 3, 2004, 02:32 PM

Nice. I like the bigger heat block. It must make a difference since they removed some fans or is the reduction of fans due to the 90nm processors?

WWDC 04 will be will so on!

arn

Jun 3, 2004, 02:41 PM

But seriously, Macrumors has been really good in the past. I think that there simply isn't anything out there right now—probably due to delays in PM development and maybe in light of a couple recent snafus (including the infamous posting of PM specs early). Maybe Jobs has said that heads will roll if anything gets leaked by any means.

We go with the flow.

At one point people "complained" that a lot of news came from MacBidouille. Meanwhile, Appleinsider was out-of-action for a couple of years.

I'm sure in a year or so, someone will post "does MacRumors get all its news from xyz.com?"

arn

Mr.Hey

Jun 3, 2004, 02:42 PM

Geek speak/speculation on these new images --

Mac.Ach (http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=919005052631&r=125005164631#125005164631)

nuckinfutz

Jun 3, 2004, 02:43 PM

There certainly is a lot more room in the front of the chassis now. Doesn't look like Dual Opticals are coming. I have always felt like Dual Opticals were something that relatively few people were really looking for. That area that's opened up now would easily hold two more drives however. Guess I'll have to wait an see if Apple just leaves that as a cavern or does something with it.

caveman_uk

Jun 3, 2004, 02:43 PM

Nice. I like the bigger heat block. It must make a difference since they removed some fans or is the reduction of fans due to the 90nm processors?

WWDC 04 will be will so on!
I'm not sure it's all heat sink. Maybe the fans are under the shroud? Besides that thing would weigh a bloody ton! I'd need a new reinforced desk to hold a PM with a heatsink that big :eek:

i_wolf

Jun 3, 2004, 02:47 PM

this is obviously more proof that there will be new Powerbook G5's next week! (j/k) :D
Joking aside, this does look very interesting. I wonder if that giant heat sink is actually sort type of heat pipe internally, covered over by a big fancy face plate. A giant heat pipe like that with heat being exhausted to the rear could explain why they are dropping the front fans. It might also allow them to use 3GHz 970fx's in there without the additional fans. Just my 0.02 though.It does appear from those document however that they have not addressed the issue of 'limited' expansion for extra cd/rw or dvd/rw drives. Granted that was never an issue for me, but I did hear a lot of old G4 Quicksilver users complain about it.
As for that quad comment, we can only dream but IMO it would be extremely unlikely.

caveman_uk

Jun 3, 2004, 02:47 PM

There certianly is a lot more room in hte front of the chassis now. Doesn't look like Dual Opticals are coming. I always felt like Dua Opticals were something that relatively few people were really looking for.
I've got dual opticals and my powermac G4 didn't come with 'em. It's cheaper to buy them yourself and put them in. For example I've got a Pioneer DVR-107D 8x DVD burner in my PM G4 and it cost me £61. The difference between a combo and a superdrive on the Apple store is £150. Similarly my second CDRW cost £25. Both drives are fully supported by Panther.

Just because Apple didn't SELL many G4s with two optical drives doesn't mean people didn't want them.

Apple isn't only expensive for RAM

numediaman

Jun 3, 2004, 02:50 PM

I'm a little hesitant to deduce too much from these photos, here's why. AppleInsider did not say they had the manual in their possession and that these were the most interesting photos. They implied that they published what was given them.

Because of this, one should be hesitant to claim too much. Afterall, in a service manual, one sometimes omits items in order to make it easier to visualize the repair. For instance, the four RAM slots does not mean there really will only be four in all the rev. b G5s. The graphics card is the same in both models -- so what, the photos don't illustrate replacing the card, etc.

I think these photos show some important changes, but certainly not all of them.

StrangeQuark

Jun 3, 2004, 02:51 PM

why should there be some harddisks and some others on the whole other side of the Power Mac.

They aren't on the other side of the Power Mac. Look at the photo in the upper left. The gap is clearly on the side with the other drives. The ports face you in that image, but the empty space is on the far side of the image.

Sabbath

Jun 3, 2004, 02:57 PM

I can't quite make out the outputs on the new graphics card. In the second row down of pictures the graphics cards look very similar just on different colour boards. Then the outputs on the top picture are black (on the old G5) and change to either white or not there on the new one. You often get different colour cards but in my experience manufactures seem to stick with the same colour (in the shorter term). Yet these cards look almost identical but are differently coloured. Just a little weird I guess?

tliptak

Jun 3, 2004, 02:58 PM

Hum this is weird. Rev A to Rev B redesign?

Also you can't open the images in photoshop or preview. Haven't tried anything else but its sorta odd.

oliverlubin

Jun 3, 2004, 02:59 PM

anyone else find it odd that the last picture in the Old manual (closeup of the cable connections) is upside down? why would it be presented like that?

edit: on a side note, the ram slots are destinct pairs of 2. so it looks like only 4 slots total. if you look close up, the spacing makes it more obvious.

ChrisFromCanada

Jun 3, 2004, 03:05 PM

Hum this is weird. Rev A to Rev B redesign?

Also you can't open the images in photoshop or preview. Haven't tried anything else but its sorta odd.

I tried that too and that the same problem this image wont open in preview, photoshop, or quicktime......only in a web browser.......wierd.

Can anyone explain this?

Luc@

Jun 3, 2004, 03:05 PM

anyone else find it odd that the last picture in the Old manual (closeup of the cable connections) is upside down? why would it be presented like that?

I don't know why, but the image is really upside down. I have controlled on the repair manual (the "old" one...).

zer0army

Jun 3, 2004, 03:05 PM

Also you can't open the images in photoshop or preview. Haven't tried anything else but its sorta odd.

Opened fine in both Photoshop CS and Preview for me. :)

digiface

Jun 3, 2004, 03:10 PM

SeaFox

Jun 3, 2004, 03:16 PM

:)
http://users.rcn.com/muisca/90nmG5Service.jpg

Okay, I STILL am getting a broken image link on that image.

Ironic: You're hosting the picture on your RCN webspace. And I'm at work right now (RCN technical support).

SeaFox

Jun 3, 2004, 03:20 PM

relimw

Jun 3, 2004, 03:23 PM

There is no way tis will be quad :rolleyes:

Well, what are the chances that this could be a dual core, dual processor system? Now that would be wicked!

dwsolberg

Jun 3, 2004, 03:25 PM

I wonder whether we can really expect much. The wait on a 2 Ghz XServe is still 4-6 weeks. It would be very surprising if Apple were able to sell machines faster than that for a long time. I mean if they can barely even produce 2 Ghz, what makes anyone think they can produce 2.2, 2.4, 2.6 or even the unholy grail of 3.0 Ghz?

Aeolius

Jun 3, 2004, 03:27 PM

I wonder if Apple is hiding liquid cooling under that larger shield?

e-coli

Jun 3, 2004, 03:28 PM

Liquid cooling, here we come! And more storage!

I didn't think it would be possible for them to clean up the case design, but they've managed to do it. It makes the current models look cluttered. That's amazing.

Niknar

Jun 3, 2004, 03:29 PM

There is a metal slot underneath the ram slots. This looks like the place to slide in the fans. When you remove the fans in the current G5, you can see similar slots for the fans to connect to.

This is a service manual. They are trying to show a procedure, so parts may be removed. This is not an apple comparison photo. There could be all kinds of parts removed to illustrate whatever the manual is trying to show.

I was going to ask that. If it is then you can justify why the ram is vertical, it would not interrupt the airflow. Also that cable looks flexible enough if fans were installed there.

I think this is a low end machine.

btw the image opens fine in preview and photoshop here.

LoonyPandora

Jun 3, 2004, 03:31 PM

klaus

Jun 3, 2004, 03:38 PM

Sorry to burst anyones bubble, but the service manuals have not been updated - I checked them about 20 minutes ago, and they are the same as always. Attached is a screenshot of the current service manuals page, and the current service manual I downloaded 20 mins ago.

I would be nice if this was the new G5, but it's not true :)

I don't get it, why does AppleInsider claims the document has been updated on the 12th and on the 28th again, so you could easily verify the rumor if you check with another tech guy, if this is idd the fact, or is this also some sort of NDA?

Anyway, your pics say they were updated may 13th, so that makes this rumor total bogus...:(

isgoed

Jun 3, 2004, 03:38 PM

Sorry to burst anyones bubble, but the service manuals have not been updated

No Drooly, AppleInsider has some "Insider" who got the manuals.

applekid

Jun 3, 2004, 03:41 PM

edit: on a side note, the ram slots are destinct pairs of 2. so it looks like only 4 slots total. if you look close up, the spacing makes it more obvious.

Dual Channel RAM? Just like on the PCs?

I think there's a few parts removed just to make the picture look clearer.

Who care's about what the inside looks like?! I'm really worried about if we can actually reach 3 GHz this summer! Please let either the 975 or 980 exist and be able to reach 3 GHz!... That and PCI-Express. We could use that :D

numediaman

Jun 3, 2004, 03:42 PM

Sorry to burst anyones bubble, but the service manuals have not been updated - I checked them about 20 minutes ago, and they are the same as always. Attached is a screenshot of the current service manuals page, and the current service manual I downloaded 20 mins ago.

I would be nice if this was the new G5, but it's not true :)

You better check your post. The photo you linked shows the old model, which is in fact the old model here -- but not the new model. look at the huge heat sink differences.

In addition, the original post never claims this was a public document.

klaus

Jun 3, 2004, 03:43 PM

Dual Channel RAM? Just like on the PCs?

I think there's a few parts removed just to make the picture look clearer.

Who care's about what the inside looks like?! I'm really worried about if we can actually reach 3 GHz this summer! Please let either the 975 or 980 exist and be able to reach 3 GHz!... That and PCI-Express. We could use that :D

I thought it was already dual channel ram in the g5's, I might be wrong though, but I don't think so. I'm sure that you need to install memory modules in pairs, so that makes a dual channel system..

Klaus

Bonte

Jun 3, 2004, 03:45 PM

That is one large heat sink, me thinks there is room for 4 more RAM slots in there. Left is room for the 2e proc or ... The 2e dual proc :)
here's hoping :) :)

LoonyPandora

Jun 3, 2004, 03:47 PM

No Drooly, AppleInsider has some "Insider" who got the manuals.

from the article:

In May, Apple distributed at least two revisions of the Power Mac service manuals. The first revision appeared on May 12 and featured only minor alterations, but a successive revision published on the 28th of the month reveals some interesting and previously unseen photos (below) of a dual Power Mac G5.

This is not true, as my screenshot shows, they were updated on the 13th only. Also, a service manual containing diagrams of an unreleased product is just utterly pointless. Even just a rev-a to a rev-b get's a whole new service manual.

They could be the new G5's, but they aren't in a service manual yet ;) - and my vote goes to a good photoshop job :)

The photo you linked shows the old model, which is in fact the old model here -- but not the new model. look at the huge heat sink differences.
In addition, the original post never claims this was a public document.

That's my point, that screenshot was from the current service manual, to prove that they haven't been updated with a new model. Also, I'm not the general public, the service manuals are not available to the general public as you state.

The Cheat

Jun 3, 2004, 03:52 PM

autrefois

Jun 3, 2004, 03:56 PM

We go with the flow.

At one point people "complained" that a lot of news came from MacBidouille. Meanwhile, Appleinsider was out-of-action for a couple of years.

I'm sure in a year or so, someone will post "does MacRumors get all its news from xyz.com?"

arn

Thank you arn for explaining, that makes sense.

The Cheat

Jun 3, 2004, 03:56 PM

Also, anyone else notice the new MB is green plastic, rather than the cool blue colour they are now? Not sure why they would move to a green board - kind of bland and PCish. Though I guess it is probably less expensive. :confused:

Sabbath

Jun 3, 2004, 03:58 PM

I dont see why the space in front of the processors would be empty in top picture with the plastic cover on, if something was supposed to go in there, that just seem crazy.

The square of new bare metal space seems a bit of a strange colour too. Looking through the old G5 manual I'm thinking these are fake.

Capt Underpants

Jun 3, 2004, 04:00 PM

I do not think that this is a dual, triple, or quadruple processor machine. The reason: RAM slots. There are 8 on the current dual machines, but only four on the current single processor G5. This says to me that the new line-up will not be duals. I am still at a loss as to what that gaping empty space in the front of the machine houses. No dual optical drives is a bummer, but not a deal breaker for most. Also, no extra room for hard drives (where they traditionally go in the current G5) is a bummer. I guess none of this really matters to me, as I just bought a Powerbook, and have no money left.

bishopduke

Jun 3, 2004, 04:22 PM

dongmin

Jun 3, 2004, 04:24 PM

oingoboingo

Jun 3, 2004, 04:29 PM

If you stop to think about it, Apple has long been in the game of making the quietest computer that they can.

Windtunnel MDD G4 PowerMacs?

LimeiBook86

Jun 3, 2004, 04:34 PM

<Dances with joy>

A Dual 3ghz G5 machine would be friggin awesomwe!! :D I'm curious about the RAM slots...maybe they are hidden :p

legion

Jun 3, 2004, 04:38 PM

There are now 2GB DDR ram sticks available, maybe apple things we don't need more than 8GB RAM..

BTW someone said that intel can't have more than 4.x GB ram in their mobos, which is untrue. Intel's mobos use some weird RAM emulation thing where they have 42bit addressing (someone do the math).. anyways I'm pretty sure that means intel's mobos (even on 32bit processors) can go higher than 8GB (which is apple's artificial max).

It's 48 bit addressing and it uses segmentation, not emulation. Intel processors since the 486 can address up to 64TB of RAM. It's done using 32bit addressing space with 16bit memory i/o space to map areas (segments)

OS X also uses 48bit addressing at the moment, not 64.

twinturbo

Jun 3, 2004, 04:40 PM

Might the new machines not be dual-processor, but DUAL-CORE (a la 975)??

SWC

Jun 3, 2004, 04:43 PM

I wonder if Apple is hiding liquid cooling under that larger shield?

I highly doubt that we will see liquid cooling anytime soon in an off the shelf average joe computer. Water cooling is very much an enthusiast product. There are too many risks involved, if pump dies, a hose breaks, fittings come loose, not topped off with the right kind of water or even at all etc. your processors and anything else water cooled are trashed. It would be nice but at this point I don't think it will ever be practical unless there are some major advances in the technology. Sure there are systems like I.C.E. that shuttle uses but that’s simply a transfer pipe to move heat to where the fan is about 2” away not a true water cooling system. There is wishful thinking though.

SWC

Jun 3, 2004, 04:49 PM

I thought it was already dual channel ram in the g5's, I might be wrong though, but I don't think so. I'm sure that you need to install memory modules in pairs, so that makes a dual channel system..

Klaus

I am fairly certain the machine is dual channel already but the reason it has to be installed in pairs is the dual processors. Dual channel setsups don't require you install in pairs, it only has to match if you want to take advantage of the dual channel performance.You have to match the quantity of ram for each memory bank for the processors. So you cant have 4 gb in the 4 slots for the first processor and 512 mb for the other processor. The 1.6 does not have to be installed in pairs it can be installed in single sticks.

SWC

Jun 3, 2004, 04:50 PM

Could this just be some clever photoshopping of the system that was built by the guy who fitted a PC into the G5 case?

strider42

Jun 3, 2004, 04:50 PM

Well, what are the chances that this could be a dual core, dual processor system? Now that would be wicked!

pretty much impossible. Moving to a dual core setup would be huge, and I'm not sure apple could get IBM to keep that quiet. Dual core is a major revision to the chip design, probably would even get a new processor designation altogether. Quads are, in my opinion, much more likely than dual core chips at this point,a nd I don't think quads are likely.

Mord

Jun 3, 2004, 05:05 PM

Sorry to burst anyones bubble, but the service manuals have not been updated - I checked them about 20 minutes ago, and they are the same as always. Attached is a screenshot of the current service manuals page, and the current service manual I downloaded 20 mins ago.

I would be nice if this was the new G5, but it's not true :)

I second that this is fake i just downloaded a g5 service manual from apple and it is identical to the one i had a week ago

:confused:

tny

Jun 3, 2004, 05:16 PM

There does seem to be a lack of original content. ;)
It's a site that reviews rumors from other sites, including AppleInsider, ThinkSecret, MacBiddoulle, etc. and sometimes gets its own rumors.

lewdvig

Jun 3, 2004, 05:18 PM

Metatron

Jun 3, 2004, 05:32 PM

It is real, or it is fake (not a photoshop job). Some one stripped there G5, put there PC mobo inside, and got a "A" in metal shop to make the that donkey size heat sink.

The only thing that might be photoshopped on it is the G5 logo itself onto the heat sink.

Or like I said, it is a real pic, some apple loser let the cat out of the bag, and apple has got a secret liquid cooling system going inside that tank with the new 975.....i only wish though.

TWinbrook46636

Jun 3, 2004, 05:44 PM

Looks like a new SINGLE CPU heat shield, to me. (AI speculates that it's a new dual shield, but it only says "G5" once--and I think Apple likes to show off that there are two in there.)

If that means the lineup's not going all-dual, I approve: the lowest PowerMac can then be cheaper than possible with duals.

As I said over at AppleInsider, I think you have hit the nail on the head. The heatsink enclosure most likely hides the empty space left by a single processor. Think about it. Remember the specs proclaimed by that French rumor site a couple weeks ago? They mentioned the entry level model would have a single processor and a single media bay while the other models would have two of each. Apple could use the existing case design (which they already put a lot of work into) for the single [Powermac 7,3] and use a revised case design [PowerMac 8,1] for the duals. What do you think

Mr.Hey

Jun 3, 2004, 05:45 PM

hehehe... take the linked image out of your post, you're wasting my bandwidth! :mad: :rolleyes: ;)

Okay, I STILL am getting a broken image link on that image.

Ironic: You're hosting the picture on your RCN webspace. And I'm at work right now (RCN technical support).

aswitcher

Jun 3, 2004, 05:49 PM

It's 48 bit addressing and it uses segmentation, not emulation. Intel processors since the 486 can address up to 64TB of RAM. It's done using 32bit addressing space with 16bit memory i/o space to map areas (segments)

OS X also uses 48bit addressing at the moment, not 64.

I wonder at the 8 ram slot, 8 gig cap that seems to exist when they could go so much higher... Is there are market for a sixteen ram slot machine?

TWinbrook46636

Jun 3, 2004, 05:53 PM

There is a metal slot underneath the ram slots. This looks like the place to slide in the fans. When you remove the fans in the current G5, you can see similar slots for the fans to connect to.

I just noticed that. Maybe the fans are larger in this version and fill up the rest of the empty space as well. Which is quieter? A large, slow moving fan or a small, fast moving one?

dizastor

Jun 3, 2004, 05:55 PM

Steve will deliver 3ghz... just with single processors...

boo

TWinbrook46636

Jun 3, 2004, 05:56 PM

That's my point, that screenshot was from the current service manual, to prove that they haven't been updated with a new model. Also, I'm not the general public, the service manuals are not available to the general public as you state.

I think we are talking Updated vs Updated and Published here. You're still at least a couple rungs down the ladder.

Macmaniac

Jun 3, 2004, 06:07 PM

I think that big empty space is for a fan, although I do not know why Apple would reduce the number of RAM slots. I think a dual would go under that large heat sink, every other Apple dual machine has had one Heat sink .

Edot

Jun 3, 2004, 06:15 PM

Um... did anyone think that these may be pre-production g5 manuals. Maybe they just had prototype pictures and mockups that they based their manual design off of before the final product had been completely designed. Why do they have to be rev B? Most of the inconsistencies seem illogical (fans, RAM, etc.), therefore supporting the idea that the pictures are pre-production shots or mock-ups. Whatever they are, I can't wait until WWDC.

Abstract

Jun 3, 2004, 06:16 PM

Alright, I know that a lot of you had to be expecting me to chip in on this, so here I am, ready and willing to interpret what those pictures might meam. I've been advocating the idea that the PowerMac G5 - as we know it - could be dropped down to the ....

Actually, no we weren't.

And they should address the optical drive issue. Apple may not think its necessary, but since there are plenty of people who would love the option to put another drive in, they should add it in.

And like someone mentioned, there's no way this is going to be a quad G5. So much cooling would be required, even at the 90 nm process. Also, if software isn't properly written to utilize 2 processors now, won't it make it even more difficult to get developers to develop software to take advantage of quad processors? Or does software have to be written to utilize more procs at all? :confused:

This is a service manual. They are trying to show a procedure, so parts may be removed. This is not an apple comparison photo. There could be all kinds of parts removed to illustrate whatever the manual is trying to show.

Hence that big hole on the bottom left that Apple isn't going to leave unfilled with something. :)

Brian Haworth

Jun 3, 2004, 06:27 PM

I highly doubt that we will see liquid cooling anytime soon in an off the shelf average joe computer. Water cooling is very much an enthusiast product. There are too many risks involved, if pump dies, a hose breaks, fittings come loose, not topped off with the right kind of water or even at all etc. your processors and anything else water cooled are trashed. It would be nice but at this point I don't think it will ever be practical unless there are some major advances in the technology. Sure there are systems like I.C.E. that shuttle uses but that’s simply a transfer pipe to move heat to where the fan is about 2” away not a true water cooling system. There is wishful thinking though.

Well, the Sega Dreamcast used liquid cooling and you didn't see anyone complaining about that, did you?

jakemikey

Jun 3, 2004, 06:42 PM

You gotta love all the posts still acting like it's the real deal even after the numerous posts debunking it.

Anyway...

Right. And I am not sure how the HD's would mount in there anyway...they took out the metal separator... so I wonder how they could reside in there. And the vertical fans are gone...1TB of storage would require a lot of fans, I would think. I don't know though, considering I've never been in the presence of so much storage capacity. :)

A real G5 can handle 1.25TB+ without any additional cooling. Take a look at this: http://barefeats.com/swift.html

Take note of his use of ThermographX to evaluate the temp with the drives installed.

SWC

Jun 3, 2004, 07:06 PM

Well, the Sega Dreamcast used liquid cooling and you didn't see anyone complaining about that, did you?

dreamcast used the same basic system as shuttle, its just a metal tube with thats transfers the heat from a metal block to a heatsink. There is no pump or anything like that. its just used in tight space enclosures.

Wonder Boy

Jun 3, 2004, 07:06 PM

where are the dual optical drives???

dho

Jun 3, 2004, 07:39 PM

I personally think these pics are fake, and a good fake at that, the reasons why:

1. The Motherboard is TOO small, why would apple do that, my only explaination to decrease the size of Motherboard is for something like the iMac G5
2. Only 4 RAM Slots, this is too little, if they have the space in this case, why not use it....... more hard disk space, extra drive bay etc.
3. Vertical RAM slots, apple wouldn't do this, they need the air flow, for cooling, even if the HUGE heatsink takes up all the heat, it still needs to be moved somewhere; and the cover would restrict the loss of heat by convection out the side....
4. The motherboard does not have a sense of belonging in these pics, it doesn't seem to fit.

Well that is what i think, if you think i am wrong don't give me S***.

DjVoTeZ

Incomplete, maybe

fake, NO

Remember these are on apples website. They may have been preproduction, or maybe jus a low end model without all the bells and whistles. It may be something we will never see produced, but it is NOT fake.

Is it just me or did we see something similar last year around the same time. maybe a lil later. Leaked g5 specs anyone. sure this is probobly much more of a mistake than that one, but who knows.

~dho

fpnc

Jun 3, 2004, 07:53 PM

I just downloaded the pictures that were posted on AI and I found a very interesting thing about the images that are supposed to be the "new" G5. I opened the image in Photoshop and sampled the colors and on the first two exterior shots every area on the "new" G5's metal skin and interior is a PURE grayscale (i.e. no color). Also, the cable in the middle shot is also a PURE grayscale (pure black and dark gray). However, on the "old" G5 the metal and cables contain slightly different values of red, green, and blue (near gray with a slight, varying color cast). However, in the bottom image of the "new" G5 the metal skin does show variation in color and so does the cable (i.e. it is not a pure grayscale image). Thus, it seems obvious to me that the first two pictures of the "new" G5 are either an artist's rendition or a hack of a set of grayscale images that have been modified to show color on the motherboard and graphics card. The last image (close-up of the cable) is something entirely different, but the shadows look a little odd to me so I think this is another "Photoshop" job. Thus, it appears certain that the images of the "new" G5 are not real pictures. I suspect that they are faked.

P.S. One of the administrators (Kasper) over on AI in response to a post saying that the pictures were fake said, "They are real. Confirmed after publication." Time will tell, I guess.

psycho bob

Jun 3, 2004, 08:01 PM

They MAY have been on apple's site but they aren't now. Lets face it the inside looks poor compared to the rev a models. The graphics card is a ATI 9600 exactly like in mine I can't see this making the new line up. The reduction in RAM slots also makes little sense, 2GB modules have been available for a while in certain types. Hell 4GB modules can be bought but DDR2, which surely will be used for the next models, is over twice the price of DDR 400 looking at crucial and the max size they stock are 512MB Dimms. Even DDR 400 is hard to find in Dimms over 1GB and is still very expensive. There doesn't appear to space to add any more slots either. I couldn't see the battery inside the thing either.
Looking at the front grill it also seems to be very blurred compared to the pic of the rev a model like someone has brushed out the details.
It is either not as elegant, a waste of internal space or a fake (at least not what the real ones will look like). I'll plump for the latter of those choices.

Skiniftz

Jun 3, 2004, 08:06 PM

But I'm wondering what the extra space in the lower left corner is for...

The other CPU. They are both single CPU models from the service manual...

ClimbingTheLog

Jun 3, 2004, 08:06 PM

1. The Motherboard is TOO small, why would apple do that, my only explaination to decrease the size of Motherboard is for something like the iMac G5

That's exactly why. Unified motherboard design across the product line.

Dualies and Quads for Pro's, singles for consumers. The boards that don't turn out as well get dumped into consumer goods, those that clock higher go into pro. Saves money in design and production.

It's quite reasonable to assume the G5 line would be a year for consumer goods and a year and a half or two for portables.

hob

Jun 3, 2004, 08:11 PM

Well, what are the chances that this could be a dual core, dual processor system? Now that would be wicked!

If that big G5 heatsink only contains one core, then maybe the big ol' space next to it is for.... THE SECOND ONE!! :eek:

ClimbingTheLog

Jun 3, 2004, 08:12 PM

At one point people "complained" that a lot of news came from MacBidouille. Meanwhile, Appleinsider was out-of-action for a couple of years.

I'm sure in a year or so, someone will post "does MacRumors get all its news from xyz.com?"

Arn - MacRumors' raison d'etre is a rumor conglomerator. Statistically you're bound to have runs from the same source.

MacSlut

Jun 3, 2004, 08:29 PM

I've got dual opticals and my powermac G4 didn't come with 'em. It's cheaper to buy them yourself and put them in. For example I've got a Pioneer DVR-107D 8x DVD burner in my PM G4 and it cost me £61. The difference between a combo and a superdrive on the Apple store is £150. Similarly my second CDRW cost £25. Both drives are fully supported by Panther.

Just because Apple didn't SELL many G4s with two optical drives doesn't mean people didn't want them.

Exactly! I specifically did not upgrade to the G5 because I wanted 4 internal hard drives and 2 internal optical drives...actually I wanted more, but that's what fits in my Dual 1.42 G4. I still don't get it...a couple more inches on the top of the current G5 case and they could've fit another optical drive and at least two more hard drives.

ClimbingTheLog

Jun 3, 2004, 08:36 PM

Exactly! I specifically did not upgrade to the G5 because I wanted 4 internal hard drives and 2 internal optical drives...actually I wanted more, but that's what fits in my Dual 1.42 G4. I still don't get it...a couple more inches on the top of the current G5 case and they could've fit another optical drive and at least two more hard drives.

Check out Firewire800 cases. It's plenty fast for real ATA drives. And the removability can be a benefit (unless you carry your machine around).

Rattle

Jun 3, 2004, 08:53 PM

Just posted by Appleinsider:

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=474

:)

WOW, someone has been very creative with photoshop. I am susprised at how you are all so easily fooled

applemacdude

Jun 3, 2004, 09:21 PM

WOW, someone has been very creative with photoshop. I am susprised at how you are all so easily fooled

I dont know about that...remember people doubting the cube, fp imac...well we will see ia couple of weeks..

fluidinclusion

Jun 3, 2004, 09:26 PM

Could this just be some clever photoshopping of the system that was built by the guy who fitted a PC into the G5 case?

I Agree. My vote is that it's a fake.

Hattig

Jun 3, 2004, 09:34 PM

Only 4 visible... If you look at the photo, in the back of the separation piece of metal there's a little cut out area, looks like some more RAM slots and enough opening area for your fingers to maneuver through there.

That's all the RAM slots. The space in the middle shows that it is dual channel, 2 slots per channel.

Fair enough really, considering you can't have more RAM on a DDR channel at PC3200 speeds, you have to go down to PC2700, or worse, PC2100. Registered can help as can increasing the latency. Let's hope that each slot accepts 2GB DIMMs, or even the (currently very expensive) 4GB DIMMs.

There is enough space under that cover however for the northbridge, and 4 PowerPC 970FX's though, although I expect that Apple will only put two in, I don't think that Quad processors is something that Apple will do in the Apple Workstation arena.

fpnc

Jun 3, 2004, 09:48 PM

I feel pretty confident that since the "new" G5 images posted on AI contained mixed full-color and pure grayscale components that these images are actually photo compositions or simply altered photos of the existing G5 design. Simply put, these are not actual photos.

LaMerVipere

Jun 3, 2004, 09:54 PM

I am praying that it's a 3GHz G5 in there! I don't know why though, but these pics of the supposed new G5 look very unrealistic as opposed to the very real looking pics of the "old" aka current G5. the colours seem off (in the "new" G5) and it just looks very incomplete and dull, very unreal.

But please, 3GHz steve!

~Shard~

Jun 3, 2004, 09:58 PM

There'll be a 3GHz PowerMac at WWDC - you just wait and see. :cool:

Bigheadache

Jun 3, 2004, 10:10 PM

I am fairly certain the machine is dual channel already but the reason it has to be installed in pairs is the dual processors. Dual channel setsups don't require you install in pairs, it only has to match if you want to take advantage of the dual channel performance.You have to match the quantity of ram for each memory bank for the processors. So you cant have 4 gb in the 4 slots for the first processor and 512 mb for the other processor. The 1.6 does not have to be installed in pairs it can be installed in single sticks.

That would only be true in a dual opteron system and even then you can still get away with not giving each CPU its own memory. In a G5 both processors share the same memory controller located in the system controller, each processor does not require its "own" RAM. Each Opteron has its own built in memory controller, if you don't give each processor its own dual channel RAM it can access the RAM "belonging" to another using the HT bus (the peer to peer one, not the system HT bus). You still need to install the RAM in matching pairs to take advantage of dual channel.

windowsblowsass

Jun 3, 2004, 11:00 PM

jaw04005

Jun 3, 2004, 11:57 PM

There'll be a 3GHz PowerMac at WWDC - you just wait and see. :cool:

I agree. Steve said 3ghz, we will see 3ghz. Now they may not ship until December, but I think we will see 3ghz.

~Shard~

Jun 4, 2004, 12:16 AM

I agree. Steve said 3ghz, we will see 3ghz. Now they may not ship until December, but I think we will see 3ghz.

I hope for Apple's sake that they have the 3 GHz AND they are ready to ship right away. Although it might be asking a lot, I don't think the masses, 3 GHz or not, will approve of yet another delay to the PowerMac line. It will have already been a year since the G5 was released, so hopefully the new models will be shipping once they are announced - if people have to wait yet another 6 months to actually receive them, that's going to be viewed as a bit excessive, I'm sure.

fpnc

Jun 4, 2004, 12:45 AM

...I don't know why though, but these pics of the supposed new G5 look very unrealistic as opposed to the very real looking pics of the "old" aka current G5. the colours seem off (in the "new" G5) and it just looks very incomplete and dull, very unreal...

Well, yes. I think I've already explained that in a few previous posts. It appears that the first two images are just photo-compositions of a grayscale (non-color) image that someone has tried to colorize (added color to the motherboard and graphics card). However, the final image (the cable connection) appears to be a full-color image. But to my eye, even the final image appears to have been retouched.

And in the other series of images (the existing G5) all three images are consistent and in full color. Those appear to be actual photos.

zerocuul

Jun 4, 2004, 01:15 AM

I have gone through the current G5 Service Manual, page by page, and this picture does not appear. However I got a copy TODAY (6-3-04) more than 12 hours after the post at www.appleinsider.com, so Apple had plenty of time to change it.

www.appleinsider.com did have the part numbers for all the Laptop updates right.

I'm going to say this for posterity:

Don't be surprised to see new G5's before WWDC, so Steve Jobs can BRAG about keeping his 3.0GHZ promise.

Later... :)

alamar

Jun 4, 2004, 02:20 AM

:)
http://users.rcn.com/muisca/G5Service.jpg

I don't know where the idea the fans are gone comes from when looking at this. The intake ports on the front remain intact... I assume they will be moving air through them.

elmimmo

Jun 4, 2004, 03:10 AM

I hope it is not true, mainly because I think current Power Mac G5 are Babel Towers, waaaaaaay to big. No way I am putting that on or under my desktop. Bring on the cube!

AngryAngel

Jun 4, 2004, 05:31 AM

Assuming Appleinsider got the images from somewhere other than the normal service website, there is little signs of this being a fake.

I think there is room for 8 RAM modules, from the angle the photo, and the hole in the metal separator (to operate the RAM clips though)- as mention by someone earlier.

I think it is a dual processor machine, as the heatsink is so massive. With two chips doing (in some tasks) uneven work, it makes sense to spread the heat from both over a massive surface. This would stop one heatsink getting very hot while the other stays cooler.

I think the lack of front fans is to cut down sound production- with the fans at the back sucking air through the heatsink, there is not really a need for them. There is no evidence of mounts for extra internal drives, so I doubt there is any more internal expandability.

The smaller motherboard brings it back down to a more standard size, and must reduce costs.

G4-power

Jun 4, 2004, 06:01 AM

I think it is a dual processor machine, as the heatsink is so massive. With two chips doing (in some tasks) uneven work, it makes sense to spread the heat from both over a massive surface. This would stop one heatsink getting very hot while the other stays cooler.

I think the lack of front fans is to cut down sound production- with the fans at the back sucking air through the heatsink, there is not really a need for them. There is no evidence of mounts for extra internal drives, so I doubt there is any more internal expandability.

The smaller motherboard brings it back down to a more standard size, and must reduce costs.

That's quite much what I thought too. The huge heatsink could have fans inside it, or at the back, sucking the air thorugh, just like AngryAngel said.

If there's no extra mounts for internal storage that's not good. I think that there might be some kind of mounts in front of the heatsink for some HD's, but maybe not.

But after all, I think this is fake, or not at all finished, so the next G5 will definitely not look like this inside, IMHO. Hope Steve keeps his promise, though... :cool:

whookam

Jun 4, 2004, 06:05 AM

Well, yes. I think I've already explained that in a few previous posts. It appears that the first two images are just photo-compositions of a grayscale (non-color) image that someone has tried to colorize (added color to the motherboard and graphics card). However, the final image (the cable connection) appears to be a full-color image. But to my eye, even the final image appears to have been retouched.

And in the other series of images (the existing G5) all three images are consistent and in full color. Those appear to be actual photos.

Ok this is my opinion. Take it as you may, but I am saying this as a proffesional photographer and owner of a retouching business.

First things first. The 2 top images are not the same shots as the top 2 from the existing manual with a comped interior. I am 100% sure of this as there are far too many difference between the lighting, angles etc. A quick overlay in Photoshop will show you this clearly.

I am 90% sure that the structure that is shown in the new pictures DOES physically exist. HOWEVER there has been a serious amount of cosmetic retouching. Any still life photographer will tell you that a shot like this would be composited from a number of different exposures. In this case, at least for the external case and one for the interior.

All defects have been removed and the case has been colour neutralised (as mentioned). This is, however, a popular method of producing this type of image. The resulting photograph is very clean and illustrative, exactly what is needed for a service manual.

If the interior is completely fake, then it has been done extemely well with amzing attention to detail. However the natural looking reflections of the boards hint at the structure actually existing. The ultra flat appearance of the metal work show that it has been retouched (I assume for cosmetic reasons only). I think it's a real image, whether or not it was made for Apple, I don't know.

Whookam

LoonyPandora

Jun 4, 2004, 07:24 AM

I think we are talking Updated vs Updated and Published here. You're still at least a couple rungs down the ladder.

Yeah, I'm a couple of rungs down the ladder, but the info AppleInsider gives is not true, the service manuals were not updated on the days they state they were. They imply that the manuals were published, by saying "Apple distributed..."

Also, my point stands, if this was a rev b, with such internal changes, it would get it's own service manual, the current G5 one would not be updated with new models.

From Appleinsider

In May, Apple distributed at least two revisions of the Power Mac service manuals. The first revision appeared on May 12 and featured only minor alterations, but a successive revision published on the 28th of the month reveals some interesting and previously unseen photos (below) of a dual Power Mac G5.

Fact: These photos are not from the service manuals.

Opinion: These may be the new G5's, which AppleInsider incorrectly attributed to coming from a service manual. However, I think it is a photoshop job of a G5 with a PC Motherboard inside. :)

killmoms

Jun 4, 2004, 08:17 AM

AoWolf

Jun 4, 2004, 08:28 AM

Is it just me or is there no port for one a non digital monitor on the back?

LoonyPandora

Jun 4, 2004, 08:38 AM

I hope these pictures turn out to be right, or at least very close to what's released at WWDC, just so all of those screaming "fake" and "photoshopped" can eat your hats. Or fake pictures. Whichever.

--Cless

hehe, fair enough - I don't have a good track record with new machines - I thought the MDD G4's were fake when macbidouille published the photos. I just know that they aren't in the service manuals ;)

decksnap

Jun 4, 2004, 08:44 AM

If they are a Photoshop rendering from Apple that would be one thing, but as far as I'm concerned, this was photoshopped. Especially the last 'detail' picture is very funky- like the connector was rubber stamped or something, and the shadows do not appear to be real. What is with the white glow around the connector in the second shot?

Matrix9180

Jun 4, 2004, 09:14 AM

The 1.6 does not have to be installed in pairs it can be installed in single sticks.

WRONG! I have a 1.6 and I still have to install the ram in pairs.

SeanMcg

Jun 4, 2004, 10:00 AM

Did Apple, in fact, release this highly debated photo in order to find out sources of leaks? 23 hours now and the photo is still posted on AppleInsider.com. I thought Apple legal was faster than that :D

iriejedi

Jun 4, 2004, 10:07 AM

Anyone notice that the right side 'old' picture that inside, the G5 coverplate is different. They should be identicle... no? :confused:

Also if these were real - we would all have a cease and desist order from Stevie Wonder Jobs in our .Mac account (He's not blind). Speculation is not allowed by Apple Corporation. The fact that in 24 hours the Web Masters at Apple Insider are apparently still alive indicates to me that Apple is laughing at this picture and not steaming over it.

[Edit] Furthermore after more staring at the picture - there appears to be a piece removed on the lRight side to reveal the second piece (my aformentioned difference) - and, as this is a service manual.... you would think that the LEFT side would also have a piece removed in part 2 to show it's secondary level of components to access for service (left side seems the same minus the yellow arrow). Hmmm... I think this could possibly be less then 100% real.

Plus no reaction from Apple...Then again maybe only the iPod's seekrits matter now and Apple will discotinue its efforts in the PC market. :eek: So there will never be a new G5... ever... Man that would suck! :mad:

If they are a Photoshop rendering from Apple that would be one thing, but as far as I'm concerned, this was photoshopped. Especially the last 'detail' picture is very funky- like the connector was rubber stamped or something, and the shadows do not appear to be real. What is with the white glow around the connector in the second shot?

ITMediaCo

Jun 4, 2004, 10:18 AM

The color of the motherboard is much more greenish on the "new" Power Mac. Looks fake.

fpnc

Jun 4, 2004, 10:47 AM

I have gone through the current G5 Service Manual, page by page, and this picture does not appear. However I got a copy TODAY (6-3-04) more than 12 hours after the post at www.appleinsider.com, so Apple had plenty of time to change it...

As someone pointed out in another thread, these images almost certainly could not have originated from a scan of a printed document (since the first two images contain absolutely no color noise or color tint in the grayscale parts of the image). Thus, is your service manual printed or a PDF or some other form of electronic document?

It seems fairly certain that these images could have only originated from a direct, digital source (i.e. a PDF document, something posted online at Apple's support website).

ifjake

Jun 4, 2004, 10:51 AM

this thread is ridiculous.

zuggerat

Jun 4, 2004, 10:52 AM

I dunno if anyone has posted this yet, but is it possible for the huge cowling, covering the smaller processors, to house the fans that were once located in front of the cowling as well?

~Shard~

Jun 4, 2004, 10:58 AM

this thread is ridiculous.

This whole site is based on rumors and speculation - what do you expect? Plus, I've seen far worse threads...

I think useless posts which don't contribute to the discussion are ridiculous. :p :cool:

LoonyPandora

Jun 4, 2004, 11:00 AM

As someone pointed out in another thread, these images almost certainly could not have originated from a scan of a printed document (since the first two images contain absolutely no color noise or color tint in the grayscale parts of the image). Thus, is your service manual printed or a PDF or some other form of electronic document?

It seems fairly certain that these images could have only originated from a direct, digital source (i.e. a PDF document, something posted online at Apple's support website).

The service manuals are distributed as PDF's from Apple's Service Website, FYI.

LaMerVipere

Jun 4, 2004, 11:00 AM

How come it seems as though we can't see or there isn't an ADC connector and DVI connector on the "new" G5 photo? Maybe it's just me, but I can't see it. Perhaps it's colour has changed on the "new" G5 and its not as obvious as the black ones on the "old" G5? :confused:

iriejedi

Jun 4, 2004, 11:16 AM

Here is the small version of the picture.
f

Well if this post works.... the G5 page on the apple store shows the dual processors STACKED... the old model (right side) only shows one processor

wdlove

Jun 4, 2004, 11:19 AM

I hope it is not true, mainly because I think current Power Mac G5 are Babel Towers, waaaaaaay to big. No way I am putting that on or under my desktop. Bring on the cube!

I disagree, the larger size denotes more power under the hood. The case can be easily upgraded and expanded to the purchasers needs.

I will put my trust in AppleInsider and the photo's for now. Only Apple can be definitive on this matter. Less that four weeks to wait. :)

pjkelnhofer

Jun 4, 2004, 11:38 AM

I disagree, the larger size denotes more power under the hood. The case can be easily upgraded and expanded to the purchasers needs.

Only the G5 is not that expandable. There is still only one optical drive bay and only three PCI slots. There is a large (in the new pics even larger) empty space in the front of the case but we have no idea what is designed to go in there (possibly a 4 x 250GB raid). While a TB of storage would be great, the overall upgrade potential is not that of a similarly sized PC.

windowsblowsass

Jun 4, 2004, 12:19 PM

f

Well if this post works.... the G5 page on the apple store shows the dual processors STACKED... the old model (right side) only shows one processor
thats because the old g5 in the ai insier post is the single 1.6 not a dual 1.8/2.0

Rower_CPU

Jun 4, 2004, 01:27 PM

Off-topic posts will be edited/deleted from non-Community threads.

Thanks :)

pjkelnhofer

Jun 4, 2004, 01:42 PM

I agree. Steve said 3ghz, we will see 3ghz. Now they may not ship until December, but I think we will see 3ghz.

Do you think he would announce them if there weren't going to be ready under December? That seems like it would seriously hurt current sales (people complained about waiting three months last year). Unless, they are going to drop prices on current models upon the announcement. How can you say, "You can get a 2 GHz today for $2999 or wait six months and get the 3 GHz for the same price." I know some customers need new computers immediately, but everyone who could put it off would.

jaw04005

Jun 4, 2004, 01:54 PM

Do you think he would announce them if there weren't going to be ready under December? That seems like it would seriously hurt current sales (people complained about waiting three months last year). Unless, they are going to drop prices on current models upon the announcement. How can you say, "You can get a 2 GHz today for $2999 or wait six months and get the 3 GHz for the same price." I know some customers need new computers immediately, but everyone who could put it off would.

That was an exaggeration on my part. In the past, Apple has typically underestimated demand for a new product or revision, which then leads to products being unavailable for months. Steve will announce new PowerMacs at WWDC and they will at least ship by September. Just a few more weeks of waiting!

windowsblowsass

Jun 4, 2004, 02:01 PM

word on apple insider is that they have indeed recieved cease and decist [/SIZE]letter from apple

The Cheat

Jun 4, 2004, 02:34 PM

I am fairly certain the machine is dual channel already but the reason it has to be installed in pairs is the dual processors...You have to match the quantity of ram for each memory bank for the processors. So you cant have 4 gb in the 4 slots for the first processor and 512 mb for the other processor. The 1.6 does not have to be installed in pairs it can be installed in single sticks.

I'm sorry, but that is completely false. Each processor does not have its own seperate RAM chips. Dual processor systems have been around for ages, and have never needed RAM to be installed in pairs. The only reason for installing RAM in matching pairs is for dual-channel for motherboards that support it.

klaus

Jun 4, 2004, 02:41 PM

word on apple insider is that they have indeed recieved cease and decist [/SIZE]letter from apple

Can they just simply ignore it??

windowsblowsass

Jun 4, 2004, 02:49 PM

i donrt know but if you look at ai imacg5 forum there is a conversation about the letter

Krevnik

Jun 4, 2004, 04:27 PM

I'm sorry, but that is completely false. Each processor does not have its own seperate RAM chips. Dual processor systems have been around for ages, and have never needed RAM to be installed in pairs. The only reason for installing RAM in matching pairs is for dual-channel for motherboards that support it.

Uhm, slight correction on your correction, the G5 is dual-channel so that the RAM can actually keep up with the 800Mhz system bus (for the 1.6Ghz G5). The specs Apple released with the G5 last year support this.

windowsblowsass

Jun 4, 2004, 10:04 PM

http://images.appleinsider.com/images/apple_legal_2004.gif
their real

Lancetx

Jun 4, 2004, 10:47 PM

Yep. Thanks Apple Legal, you just confirmed that what we saw on AppleInsider was indeed real. :)

fpnc

Jun 4, 2004, 10:48 PM

their (sic) real

Not necessarily. I think a cease and desist (C&D) could be issued even if the images were faked (i.e. not a real product). Someone in another thread said that he has seen this happen before. Where a picture of a claimed, future Apple product was posted on the web and Apple sent out a C&D. Then after the images were removed the product was never introduced (suggesting that it never existed in the first place).

More interesting, perhaps, is the fact that CNET.com has posted a news story that is based upon the report from AppleInsider:

"Apple readying new Power Macs?
Photos of a yet-to-be released Power Mac appear in a service manual, fueling speculation that the computer maker is working on an updated version of the machine."

Here is the link:

http://news.com.com/Apple+readying+new+Power+Macs%3F/2100-1042_3-5226969.html?tag=nefd.top

I think it is possible that CNET wouldn't have published this report unless they had independent confirmation. Although they do cite AppleInsider as the source of the images and the original story.

aswitcher

Jun 5, 2004, 12:13 AM

I dont see Apple removing this unless it was the real deal. Rumors are rumors afterall. How often have they done takedowns, and how many of those have been fakes?

Looks like a new G5PM this month :)

stingerman

Jun 5, 2004, 03:09 AM

The photos were probably just a placeholder for a draft of the new service manuals. In fact, if you look at the top photo, it has a copper GPU card. The middle one has a blue GPU card with black heatsink, yet no ports coming out of the back to plug into.

Someone at Apple has obviously created a placeholder for the real new PowerMac to prepare the service manual and then replace the phot when they are ready to publish the real deal. I wouldn't put it past Apple to create some confusion and trickery before the keynote. Remember last year when probably the most important announcement of the past 5 years was leaked by a Apple web designer. So they are probably proactively dealing with the rumor mill and intentionally seeding some misdirection while creating great anticipation.

If there is an iMac release along with a PowerMac update this in many ways will be an even more important set of releases than last years for Apple's future. And, Apple needs to do everything they can to start creating buzz around the upcoming announcements.

stingerman

Jun 5, 2004, 03:11 AM

I think it is possible that CNET wouldn't have published this report unless they had independent confirmation. Although they do cite AppleInsider as the source of the images and the original story.

CNET, rotflmao, just coming out of your cave?

mospeada

Jun 5, 2004, 03:14 AM

Is the memory installed on the new image completely off or am I just use to installing them in sequential order? To me, it looks like slot 2 & 3 are populated and 1 & 4 are empty.

As for the CNET / News.com article, I don't think there's an independent confirmation on the rumors. If they did, they would have mentioned it, similar to how print media would refer to "anonymous sources".

stingerman

Jun 5, 2004, 03:15 AM

their real

It's an Apple stunt, there is misdirection going on here and the sheep are falling for it and then when Steve blows us away at the keynote with something even more radical we'll have forgiven this little trick. Do you really think Apple would wast so much space in a G5 case and come out with an ugly internal design compared to the beautiful internal of the 1G PMG5? Dudes, wake up. That MB was not designed for that case and there is no way that it could have been an afterthought.

sambo.

Jun 5, 2004, 05:36 AM

.... i doubt jobsey would announce a new powermac and then tell us we have to wait until December for it to ship (some poster earlier flagged this). unless the current line-up was slashed in price by about 50%, no-one would buy a new mac until the revision shipped.

surely Apple has learnt that the second generation of any of their products is more eagerly awaited than the initial release. myself, i don't buy the first release of anything Apple (or microsloth, or Nikon or anything with a silicon chip in), be it hardware or software. i've always waited for the first update before making my decision (then buying the older gear if discounts make it attractivly enough cheaper).

i predict the first batch of the new G5's will sell out very quickly, apple needs to get their sheisse together and make sure they have enough stock of the new machines.

i am using some extremely ordinary celerons in my business at the moment which are in dire need of an update, if i have to wait for availability, i'll wait. while these machines cost me a fortune in downtime (20+ crashes & over 12 hours wasted last production day), i'd rather wait and see whats coming. i already have my order (for two duallies, whatever the one below the top-of-the-line mac is) in at the local supplier, if there are delivery delays, i'll just demand (and get, i love the Consumer Affairs Tribunal) an extra gig of memory in each machine for each month (or part thereof) i have to wait.

don't let me down stevie, announce some nice toys and make sure you can ship them. ;)

spacemonkey

Jun 5, 2004, 07:55 AM

No one can tell if the picture is real or not! The thing about "the colours don't look the same" and "the motherboard is TOO small" are just crap.
Just remember the year before: The specification of the new PowerMac's showed up before WWDC had started. Isn't it courious, that such things always happen before big events. Actually I think that they are deliberately, making people hungry and starting posts at rumour sites, which end up with more than 200 comments. Think about it!

Nemesis

Jun 5, 2004, 09:44 AM

Actually, some sources believe this is the sketch we're looking for. Apparently, some Apple geek was digging rubbish bins behind Apple's building in Cupertino and he found this paper in a bunch of banana skins and sushi plastic packages. If sources are correct, ths must be a sketch drawn by Steve himself (well, he is vegan, and banana skins support that theory)! Plus, sushi plastic packages support the theory that Steve had a lunch with Phil Schiller then! (Phil is also known as "sushi guy" between Apple execs!).
So, here it is! Enjoy the future unveiled, Mac users!

http://www.hardwebcafe.com/slike/g6.jpg

:D

Tenniru

Jun 5, 2004, 10:17 AM

Wouldn't it be a bit more efficient for the thing to make Java? I mean, MacOS X already HAS Java. Right? So are they going to have to make a Espresso driver and language? Good god, it'll take years for them to perfect my espresso maker.

Did I say that out loud?

Skiniftz

Jun 5, 2004, 10:23 AM

And why are there only 4 RAM slots? :confused:
Because you are looking at a picture of a single CPU system which has a maximum RAM capacity of 4Gb. (Actually it's 8Gb as it will take 2Gb DIMMS but nobody is supposed to know that).

Skiniftz

Jun 5, 2004, 10:24 AM

.... i doubt jobsey would announce a new powermac and then tell us we have to wait until December for it to ship
You mean again?

klaus

Jun 5, 2004, 10:26 AM

Because you are looking at a picture of a single CPU system which has a maximum RAM capacity of 4Gb. (Actually it's 8Gb as it will take 2Gb DIMMS but nobody is supposed to know that).

Exactly, there will be a greater hardware difference between the singles and the dualies.. where now the models have the same mobo, but they are missing some sockets, but besides that, they are the same.. and also equally pricey :)

so according to this pictures, this is going to change..

neonart

Jun 5, 2004, 11:44 AM

That is one large heat sink, me thinks there is room for 4 more RAM slots in there. Left is room for the 2e proc or ... The 2e dual proc :)
here's hoping :) :)

I may be wrong, but from what I can tell those pictures show 8 RAM slots. If you notice they start out at the very bottom of the board and go ALL the way up to the division of the case. In fact we're missing some of that because of the angle of the image. RAM is not that long, right? I would say the slots are four and four vertically aligned top to bottom. As soon as the attachments link works I'll post an image of what I mean...

Does anyone have a G5 that could measure the height of that bottom part of the case and the length of their RAM?

BTW, the smaller square MB coincides with an old rumor by Croquer (the french site) of smaller (24cmx25cm) boards. Just an interesting coincidence.

neonart

Jun 5, 2004, 11:46 AM

Here is the image I was trying to post:

LimeiBook86

Jun 5, 2004, 11:51 AM

I don't think it's wise to show an image that Apple wanted "removed" again on this page.

Anyways, I loved the G6 picture. That was so funny, hahaha...the 5 button mouse... :D good job ;)

keysersoze

Jun 5, 2004, 12:07 PM

Here is the image I was trying to post:

Hmm... I don't know about that. Here's a new "artist's rendition" from Appleinsider...could be total bunk, but check this out:

http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=477

I only see 4 slots, like the old one. I wish I knew someone who would let me see the guts of their "old" :) G5...

Zaty

Jun 5, 2004, 12:14 PM

Hmm... I don't know about that. Here's a new "artist's rendition" from Appleinsider...could be total bunk, but check this out:

http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=477

I only see 4 slots, like the old one. I wish I knew someone who would let me see the guts of their "old" :) G5...

It will be interesting to see how long Apple Legal takes to have it removed as well :) . I definitely think that new PMs are around the corner because Apple wouldn't have bothered about the original pics if nothing was coming. If those pictures are real or not is not important, even it they're not, Apple might want to heat up expectations.

Jun 5, 2004, 02:19 PM

... whatever .. it's just time for apple to get out something new and fast .. and do it fast ... very fast ...
@ cinebench the fastest mac slipped from nr. 17 down to nr. 22 just recently ...
have a look http://www.imashination.com/bench.html
...
and since almost 10 months there is this beta cinebench-version ... time for an update, too ?

"CINEBENCH 2003 G5 is a technology study. MAXON has optimized crucial parts of the render engine for the G5 with the support of Apple, which now reaches speed increases of approximately 20%. Further improvements are expected once an optimized compiler with G5 support is available, which shall produce efficient and reliable G5 code.
We will release updates of CINEMA 4D and BodyPaint 3D as soon the final compilers and tools are available that allow us to produce accelerated, G5-optimized production-quality versions of our programs."

that was 2003 ... what about 2004? anybody knows?
hope for some speedup @ wwdc ...
.a

stylewriter

Jun 5, 2004, 03:01 PM

BTW someone said that intel can't have more than 4.x GB ram in their mobos, which is untrue. Intel's mobos use some weird RAM emulation thing where they have 42bit addressing (someone do the math).. anyways I'm pretty sure that means intel's mobos (even on 32bit processors) can go higher than 8GB (which is apple's artificial max).

Actually Intel does have a way of addressing up to 64Gigs of RAM on a 32bit CPU, it's called Appendix H (http://www.x86.org/articles/4mpages/4moverview.htm) and how it worked was a closely held secret at Intel. It's been around since the Pentium Pro days, but you need a special operating system to access all that extra RAM(A pricey version of Windows or a recompiled Linux kernel), it has a few limitations.

pjkelnhofer

Jun 5, 2004, 04:23 PM

Actually Intel does have a way of addressing up to 64Gigs of RAM on a 32bit CPU, it's called Appendix H (http://www.x86.org/articles/4mpages/4moverview.htm) and how it worked was a closely held secret at Intel. It's been around since the Pentium Pro days, but you need a special operating system to access all that extra RAM(A pricey version of Windows or a recompiled Linux kernel), it has a few limitations.

I have always been under the impression that the amount of RAM a computer can access is more a function of the OS than simply the MB/Processor. However, I don't pretend to be an expert on such matters.

I followed the link you provided and read the article. I am not sure how it explain anything about addressing 64GB of RAM on a 32 bit CPU.

segundo

Jun 5, 2004, 07:48 PM

Yep. Thanks Apple Legal, you just confirmed that what we saw on AppleInsider was indeed real. :)

Now that I think about it . . . did anyone expect a different case for the next revision? I would think most of us expected the case to be exactly the same and the use of a slightly small motherboard (to save on manufacturing costs) and a slightly different heatsink (different chip) should be seen as no big deal.

What's actually interesting is speed/price/optical drive/video card. Somebody wake me up when we have solid rumors about those.

jmustretch

Jun 5, 2004, 09:46 PM

aswitcher

Jun 5, 2004, 09:50 PM

Someone mentioned surprise that there was not a new case design.
Maybe we have been looking at the pictures in the wrong proportion.

Smaller chip, smaller mother board= smaller case.

I don't know just a thought.

Interesting idea but no. Disc drives etc dont shrink without becoming more expensive, and then there are those ram slots....

Sun Baked

Jun 5, 2004, 09:54 PM

Someone mentioned surprise that there was not a new case design.
Maybe we have been looking at the pictures in the wrong proportion.

Smaller chip, smaller mother board= smaller case.

I don't know just a thought.The silicon chips are "smaller" but the package is the same size.

You can put a small Harley motorcycle engine in a Ford Exploder, but it ain't going to automatically shrink the rest of the package.

neonart

Jun 5, 2004, 09:54 PM

Someone mentioned surprise that there was not a new case design.
Maybe we have been looking at the pictures in the wrong proportion.

Smaller chip, smaller mother board= smaller case.

I don't know just a thought.

While that would be a great and wonderful surprise I highly doubt it. It's not cheap to retool everything on a computer. The case, MB, powersupply, case cover, plexi cover, HD bracket, fans... way too costly when the current case is perfect... albeit huge.

BTW, our friendly neighborhood French site Croquer says new G5's Monday or Tuesday. Not really convinced on that one, unless they use WWDC to unveil some other really cool stuff like iMac or PBook G5.

jmustretch

Jun 5, 2004, 09:58 PM

Can't wait… My boss is waiting for the updates before buying a few more for the office… i'm next in line. Hopefully they will ship soon after (not months) they are announced.

Excitement.

G5 iMac at WWDC… new design, easier and cheaper to produce.

Maybe?

blindazza

Jun 6, 2004, 12:09 AM

It LOOKS like I can't afford it. :mad:

stingerman

Jun 6, 2004, 03:23 AM

macmall.com has a 1GB G5 Promotion that ends June 6. Macmall.com's promotions have always been a good indicator of imminent releases for me.

klaus

Jun 6, 2004, 06:36 AM

If croquer and macned.nl (also claim this week as update week from 'several' sources) would be true (which I doubt), than did you guys think of the fact that the display promotion is still valid?

The promotion says you can use it with every G5 model available during the period, so thats until 26th of june.. If they announce G5's before 26th, I may have a hard time deciding to either buy a 23" or wait until the new display's arrive, but then again, WHEN will they arrive... and at what cost?

so many questions :)

Jo-Kun

Jun 6, 2004, 06:52 AM

You gotta love all the posts still acting like it's the real deal even after the numerous posts debunking it.

Anyway...

A real G5 can handle 1.25TB+ without any additional cooling. Take a look at this: http://barefeats.com/swift.html

Take note of his use of ThermographX to evaluate the temp with the drives installed.

you can even do better, get the swift & the G5Jam from wiebetech -> 7drive capacity insde the G5, and then add 7 Hitachi 400GB SATA drives in it... 2,8GB in your G5 :-) not that I need it in mine, but some people might enjoy it...

neonart

Jun 6, 2004, 10:16 AM

... 2,8GB in your G5...

Thats alot of drives for 2.8GB! ;) I think you mean TB.

Jo-Kun

Jun 6, 2004, 10:18 AM

Thats alot of drives for 2.8GB! ;) I think you mean TB.

Yes, sorry typing error ;-)

wdlove

Jun 6, 2004, 02:58 PM

It will be interesting to see how long Apple Legal takes to have it removed as well :) . I definitely think that new PMs are around the corner because Apple wouldn't have bothered about the original pics if nothing was coming. If those pictures are real or not is not important, even it they're not, Apple might want to heat up expectations.

IMHO, don't think that Apple has to heat up expectations for the Rev. B G5. All of us have been waiting now for about 6 long months. Excitement isn't a problem.

macridah

Jun 6, 2004, 03:13 PM

this is not that big of a surprise. it wasn't a matter if apple was going to release new powermacs, it's when apple was going to release them.

I guess the new heat block is sorta cool news. Let's see if there are any announcements this tues. If not, then june 28 4 sure!

leftbanke7

Jun 6, 2004, 03:40 PM

I think that AI is just trying to screw with us. First, they seem to have this unhealthy fixation on where Arn is getting info from, next they "bet" we will start blabbering about it, next they receive the C&D letter from Apple AFTER we mention it on the board. I call this some old fashion griftin' on their part.

Animaniac

Jun 6, 2004, 06:00 PM

If this is true, this is going to be one of the biggest let-downs in Apple's history.

rdowns

Jun 6, 2004, 06:11 PM

IMHO, don't think that Apple has to heat up expectations for the Rev. B G5. All of us have been waiting now for about 6 long months. Excitement isn't a problem.

With their sliding market share, Apple has to heat up expectations for everything. The people on this forum are hardly representative of the population at large.

jimsowden

Jun 6, 2004, 07:11 PM

There is a metal slot underneath the ram slots. This looks like the place to slide in the fans. When you remove the fans in the current G5, you can see similar slots for the fans to connect to.

This is a service manual. They are trying to show a procedure, so parts may be removed. This is not an apple comparison photo. There could be all kinds of parts removed to illustrate whatever the manual is trying to show.

If you look at the first picture, the plastic air director is on, and they are showing you how to take it off. There are no fans visable, yet on the current picture we see front major fanage. Secondly, they are using the same case for both G5s, the boards and arangement of internal parts are different on the new picture. They would not give new instructions to the maker of these cases just to take that little part out, they would just not use it since they are not redesigning the case.

windowsblowsass

Jun 7, 2004, 11:23 AM

If you look at the first picture, the plastic air director is on, and they are showing you how to take it off. There are no fans visable, yet on the current picture we see front major fanage. Secondly, they are using the same case for both G5s, the boards and arangement of internal parts are different on the new picture. They would not give new instructions to the maker of these cases just to take that little part out, they would just not use it since they are not redesigning the case.
its not for the manufcturer its for the techs its a service manual