This is going to shock you coming from me....

[Backtothemac]

Ok, as some of you know I have been working on an IBM ThinkPad at work running Winblows XP. Well, this new rumor of no new PowerMacs at MWNY has really pissed me off. I have to go on a rant, so listen to everything before you hit that quote button. ;)

Problem. Windows XP is not nearly as bad as we make it out to be. It is intrusive as hell, and the file system sucks, but if you know Windows, then it is all second nature anyway right. Well, XP is stable, and with an Aqua theme is not that bad to look at on a daily basis.

Now I MUCH, MUCH prefer the beauty, function, and stability of X. It is far more secure, and much less intrusive. Now here is the real BIT*H!

I am sick, and tired of the second rate hardware. Is there really that much of a difference in price between a 100 MHZ motherboard for an iMac and one that supports DDR with a 200MHZ, or 266MHZ Bus? Is there really that much of a price difference in ATA66 and ATA 100 or 133 for that matter? Is there really that much of a price in DDR memory and SDRAM that Apple cannot give us a pro system with the most modern memory out there! We pay TOP DOLLAR for our Macs, and damit, I am tired of getting yesterdays hardware. Sure the G4 is a much better proc than the PIV, but is it really that much better than an Athlon?

Is X86 running Linux that bad? I have never really run it so I don't know. I do know that the Celeron 500 ThinkPad that I have at work is faster on the net, faster in opening apps than my iBook 600. Now I prefer the iBook because of the OS, Firewire, the size and design of the system itself. But damn, there are some nice designs coming out of the PC camp. Apple better get off its A$$ and give us what we need and want.

I am just on a rant, and tomorrow will probably get a blue screen at work, and have to reinstall Winblows, but damit, this is getting to be rediculous. Sure, the PowerMac Dual 1GHZ is 300% faster in Photoshop than a PIV, and sure a PIV from Dell is comperable in price to the G4, but not an Athlon that I build. I can build a dual Athlon with ATA133, up to 4GB of DDR 333, Firewire, and USB2, 4 to 6 HD, and do it for 1500 less than the Dual G4, and according to Barefeats and others, the Dual Athlon will outperform a G4.

GET IT TOGETHER APPLE! The OS is wonderful, and I can't wait for Jaguar, and I am loyal, but I am getting tired of the second class hardware.:mad:

[MacAztec]

Do not go to the dark side ;)

Yea, I know what you mean. If only Apple could use Athlon processors, omg, that would rock....

The only reason I use apple is because it looks good, and has a good OS.

Those new Athlons compared to the G4 just beat the living ***** out of em

[SilvorX]

i agree, y pay $1600 CDN for an emac with older (than current pc technology) technology than something such as a new HP puter, when u could build a top of the line puter for the same price, with 7200 rpm 80 gig drive, dvd-r/cd-rw drives, nvidia vid card, etc etc for bout the same price (or slightly over)? most computer users (who price out stuff) would select the win pc over the mac, as backtothemac said, we should get current technologies.
XP isnt the worst os in the world (as some ppl make it sound like), its heck alot better than win 98/ME (of course better than win ME), it really rarely has the ol bsods appearing, but appz still crash (especially IE), but i could easily leave my computer on for a couple days with XP, which i could never do on win 98 (since i only have 192 megs of ram).
since i'm a peecee user right now, i'm fed up with the crud of windows all together, even tho checkdisks fix some of the problems at times, but i'm still a huge mac fan and osx is more superious than xp of course, but apple just needs newer hardware

[sparkleytone]

linux blows dude. (http://www.macrumors.com/forums/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=7341)

jaguar will make your hardware woes go away. your hardware is not second rate. its just untapped. just wait.

[SilvorX]

Originally posted by MacAztec
Do not go to the dark side ;)

Yea, I know what you mean. If only Apple could use Athlon processors, omg, that would rock....

athlons kik ass...inexpensive and ALOT faster than any cruddy p4
i remember someone telling me that if motorola stopped making the G4 chip, apple might get amd to produce chips for them since i heard amd and apple have a pretty good relationship, the only way i'll get another pc is if i dont have enough money for an emac, then i'll build a puter with a linmodem n install linux (i have linux cds collecting dust) n learn linux

[MacAztec]

Would it be so bad to build a peecee with an athlon and all the goodies with Windows NT or XP?

I mean, i know XP is ugly, but i am sure they have aqua themes. But windoze blows

[buffsldr]

Shocked? Actually I am surprisngly indifferent. Whatever you like, dude. Loyal? What is there to be loyal to? It is a product. If you like it than use it. Happy computing pc or mac.

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by MacAztec
Would it be so bad to build a peecee with an athlon and all the goodies with Windows NT or XP?

IF you really must build/get a peecee, use win2k on it. Hardware compatibility with the os is not an issue, where it still can be with heXPiss. Don't always believe the prices they list for building a system either. I know there are issues with the dual Athlon mobo's and other hardware (like video cards and such). Until Gigabyte comes out with a dual processor mobo for the AMD XP processor, I won't even consider it.

AMD chips ARE superior to the intel processors, anyone that knows anything about building peecee's knows that. Only the large makers use intel chips (unless you get an incredible deal on a pentium). Compare the prices of the top end chips from both. The cost difference is between $300-$400+.

[tjwett]

i've felt this way for a long time. i love the OS and the design but it gets harder everyday to justify paying $4000 on machines that are severely outdated, hardware-wise. the next few months of Apple's announcements are going to determine my future as a customer. i genuinely dislike Windows but i dislike feeling like a chump who's being ripped off even more. i need power machines to sustain my career. soon i will simply not be able to afford to wait for Apple to catch up.

[ShaolinMiddleFinger]

I agree with you on changing XP's GUI to aqua. That's what I did. I'm still sticking with Apple. Everything is definately easier on Mac.

[Choppaface]

finally somebody breaks the double standard :D
(even if a few facts are jumbled here and there :\ )

[Beej]

I'm here for the OS and the quality of the hardware. If I wanted raw power, I'd build myself and AMD system. But I don't - I want something I enjoy using.

[Grokgod]

I totally agree with you!

Its crazy to think that at the HUGE prices that APPLE is asking for their computers, that you get OLD tech. I mean really OLD!

Of course the prices for DDRAM isnt that high or too high to put into PowerMacs..hell they do it for Pcheeses.

And the cost is much less than APPLE!

I am exhausted with waiting for APPLE to get up to where Pcheeses were years ago, its sickening and really boring.

Its obvious that APPLE is playing some sort of weird game with consumers trying to squeeze the most profit possible from making units with the oldest and cheapest hardware. Then making outlandish claims of superiority.

But this is a dangerous game with a lot of money on the line!
The MAC loyal are the ones responsible for allowing this to continue.
By continueing to buy APPLE despite the RIDICULOUS costs for ancient hardware.

If APPLE thinks that they have to yet again HOLD back the hardware upgrades to
to clear obselete stock that should have been put out to pasture ages ago.

If APPLE doesnt understand that the LOW sales on PowerMacs means that no one wants them! No one wants to buy those antique models at insane prices.

Then they better stop spending money on AD's and APPLE STORES.

Because No one is going to buy these models.

iMac sales are way down with the PowerMacs.

When the Mac Loyal realize that they are being treated SO poorly.
They will send a message to APPLE.

GET it TOGETHER!

Personally, I am not buying another single ITEM from APPLE
Till they upgrade the hardware to an intelligent level!
I will not be taken for granted and I am not paying asinine prices for hamster hardware.

Get that through your head , APPLE!

Remember, the consumer is KING.

SEND the message and we will get the hardware, because it exists and is out there, waiting till we stop buying the crap.

Unless there is DDRAM and speed bumps on the PowerMacs then just ignore everything I just said! :)

Meanwhile I will check out this Pcheese aqua theme, how does that work?

[iapple]

Originally posted by Grokgod
I totally agree with you!

Meanwhile I will check out this Pcheese aqua theme, how does that work?

Aiyaiyai! Apple has one helluva angry customer!:eek: Well, I won't stop you from switching. If sheer numbers and speed you're after, get an AMD machine. Just don't scream when you see that XP screen come on! That's one helluva ugly OS!

I'm going to stick with my PowerBook G4, because it is a beauty, I love using it, and I'm sure Jaguar will dramatically improve the performance! Long live Apple! King of user experience!

[cb911]

i'm with you on this one. when i told all my friends that i got a PowerBook and how much it cost, they were all like 'holy cow!! do you know how good a PC you could have got for that much?!!'

anyway, i need a Mac for college. but in another 1 1/2 years when i'm done i'm going to consider a PC agian. it also depends on the money situation of course, but if the PC world is way ahead, then thats where i'll be.

[synergy]

I agree with Grokgod and Backtothemac.

Apple and Motorola have been dropping the ball big time in terms of delivering solid performing hardware. Yes the OS is nice and thats what mainly keeps me with the platform. XP is just too much for me to stomach. Especially now with Microsoft and their Palladium initiative its all disgusting. Linux is a joke on the desktop. So I guess I will still run my Wallstreet G3 250Mhz computer with OS X. I may get a processor upgrade. Or if a 1Ghz Titanium book comes, I may seriously consider that.

I will stick with my G4 400Mhz tower though at most adding one of the G4 800Mhz or 1Ghz processor upgrades unless Apple comes out with some decent hardware.

Problem is Apple sees the slack in demand as an economy thing. Which it partly is. But they also need to realize people don't want the same spit rehashed.

:D

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by Beej
I'm here for the OS and the quality of the hardware. If I wanted raw power, I'd build myself and AMD system. But I don't - I want something I enjoy using.

That is why I have one of each at home... My TiBook is for everything that I do day after day. From email, web browsing, to scanning images and 3D/4D works. The AMD rig is for games and that is IT!

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by cb911
i'm with you on this one. when i told all my friends that i got a PowerBook and how much it cost, they were all like 'holy cow!! do you know how good a PC you could have got for that much?!!'

Have them look at an AlienWare (http://alienware.com/) rig and tell you that you paid too much... :rolleyes: Those things are MORE then PowerMac G4 towers are.

[Backtothemac]

Oh, Alpha I agree that Alienware is very expensive. Fact is that I can build their top Athlon system for almost half the price. I love OS X. I don't really think that I can live without it for any length of time. I am just very cautious about the future of Apple right now. They cannot continue to offer old tech at top dollar. ATA 66 in my iMac! WTF! Those are not expensive tech.

Just imagine if the current Dual 1GHZ G4 had
ATA 133
DDR 333
266 MHZ FSB
Rapid I/O

Can you imagine the performace boost!

That is the point that I am trying to make.

[AlphaTech]

DDR333 (PC2700) memory is just becoming available at a reasonable price. Just a few months ago, it was very difficult to find PC2700 memory, as well as systems that could use it.

I agree that Apple should be using the top end technologies in their towers, but most consumer level users really don't NEED it. They might want it, but most of them don't use the applications that truely benefit from those items. The PowerMac towers, as well as PowerBook systems SHOULD have the faster/newer technologies first.

I see the delay in Apple releasing them as being cautious. How would people feel if Apple released the boards too soon, and didn't test them well enough, only to have 25% or more develop major issues?? People would be screaming for blood.

[Backtothemac]

I agree with you Alpha, but damn, PC's have had at least some form of DDR for almost two years now. And we still don't have it. I am just frustrated with the slow as$ rollout of hardware. ATA 66 on an iMac, 100 MHZ Bus on the iBook. It is just pissing me off, thats all.

[mcrain]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
I agree that Apple should be using the top end technologies in their towers, but most consumer level users really don't NEED it. They might want it, but most of them don't use the applications that truely benefit from those items. The PowerMac towers, as well as PowerBook systems SHOULD have the faster/newer technologies first.

***** need. I don't need a G4 anymore than I need another finger, but you can bet I WANT one.

Odds are I'll never use 1/10th the power of what I'm going to buy, but if it isn't top of the line, new tech, it probably won't be soon, or worse, it won't be apple.

[Backtothemac]

Exactly mcrain. I can say this. For 2999 I can get a Dell or Gateway that has a 2.53 GHZ PIV, 1GIG of DDR, 120GB Harddrive. Firewire, and USB2.0, 5.1 Surround sound speakers, 3 year warranty, and you ready for this. An 18.1 Inch FP display. And 7 PCI slots. Now how in the hell can I justify a 133 bux, 512 ram, 80 gb, no speakers, and no monitor, no USB2.0, for the same price!

[mcrain]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Exactly mcrain. I can say this. For 2999 I can get a Dell or Gateway that has a 2.53 GHZ PIV, 1GIG of DDR, 120GB Harddrive. Firewire, and USB2.0, 5.1 Surround sound speakers, 3 year warranty, and you ready for this. An 18.1 Inch FP display. And 7 PCI slots. Now how in the hell can I justify a 133 bux, 512 ram, 80 gb, no speakers, and no monitor, no USB2.0, for the same price!

But the corralary to that is that if the apple had the faster bus, more ram, ddr, better faster hard drive, and firewire 2 (maybe even usb2), then I'd buy it for that price, and then spend the extra on a new monitor and speakers or hook my old ones up.

[sparkleytone]

good to see ya back mcrain.

okay look. on this whole pc issue. this is my stance...

yes the latest p4s are the most powerful processors on the consumers market. no AMD can't touch them anymore. For a while it was a good race, and I still would not buy Intel because AMD is better price:performance. yes, the PC world has got all the power and speed in the world. but, the OS isnt there. It looks better than before, but thats about it. Windows does not talk nice with other OS's, and altho XP is as stable as its been, its still not stable. I beta tested XP, i thought it was nice, I was even excited. Then i was introduced to OS X. I now own an iBook that is plenty powerful, and I run linux on my PCs. Linux is another story...

Linux is a good stable OS.......for servers. It is good for command line operation and thats about it. Its got all the great things of UNIX, but also fails to break away from its shortcomings. It is not nor will ever be a desktop OS.

OSX is where its at. UNIX stability with Apple's intuition for interface. This is where my main point lies. OS X is an operating system that SAVES YOU TIME. Its not about how much the hardware costs, its not about the power of the hardware. Its about how it is utilized. There are near 3GHz p4s out on the market now that blow away the competition. But there is a bottleneck, and that is the GUI. Windows is counterintuitive and unstable. Linux just plain blows. These things waste time. Time is a mostly intangible yet extremely expensive asset. While people are on their PC's waiting for it to reboot, figuring out how to do some simple operation, or reading some HOWTO on linux operations, i am going to be getting work done on my Mac. It offers me no complaints, it just does what I tell it to. That is the revolutionary thing about Apple.

So go get your Alienware and whatnot. Have a fast machine and hopefully be happy. You will be back, because everyone else is lightyears behind.

[jefhatfield]

since i only need consumer level computing, i don't really notice apple's backwardness

but i would like to see ddr ram...that is the main sticking point right now

[tjwett]

Grokgod, you are right on the money with that big post! Apple's business strategy has for a long time, been to milk the consumer for all it's worth. many companies do this BUT in the computing world it's so much more obvious. i believe 100% that they have had new hardware ready for a long time. they are waiting to put it out. Apple's main consumer base are "Macheads" who will be repeatedly buy what ever comes out. and Apple knows this. it's like records and tapes...the CD was actually invented YEARS before the cassette tape but it was too good. so they make everyone buy a million LPs, then, a million 8tracks, then replace their whole collection with cassettes, THEN they release the CD. and the Laserdisk was invented in the 70's! but we still dealt with VHS for 20 years. i know this is a weird comparison but it's similar in that Apple having such a small marketshare causes them to screw the consumer on a yearly basis. i will NOT buy another product from Apple until the hardware is up to date and fairly priced. i have no problem spending a lot of dough on a machine but it better be worth it. if i have to go to Winblows i will.

[Grokgod]

Its not a weird comparison at all, it makes total sense!

A company like APPLe has hardware and designs sitting in the back room.

Its all put together ages ago, they have a timeline.

What that timeline includes is putting out the oldest, cheapest hardware at the highest prices that they can get away with!
How the hell do you think that got all that money in the bank, from the MAC loyal buying their old crap!

Notice I said GET away with.

If you tried this in the PCheese universe, it would be hysterical! ROFLOL!

WHo the hell would buy a Pcheese with MAC specs, NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON.

Ok, maybe that retardo in the corner.

And thats why Pcheesers laugh at us!

They dont have the loyality to the MAC base or OS that we do and its looks damn funny to buy a system that is being handed to us as the BEST when its SO obvious we are being abused and mistreated.

No one like the way M$ abuses their user base.
Why does APPLE get away with it for SO long.

I will say it again~
If you really want to get the PowerMAcs that we SO desparately NEED!
And we do NEED them for SO many reasons.

Then we NEED to tell APPLE in the only way that they can understand!
With SALES. DO NOT buy another mac that isnt UP to snuff.
And I promise you that there WILL be new amazing hardware, SO freakin FAST, that you will think your body was launched from a missile SILO!

[jefhatfield]

sure there will be a boost, but apple is just one small company so it won't go head to head with the latest and fastest

[iH8Quark]

Even with the rumored update, it's still old technology. So it has DDR SDRAM? Great. It SHOULD for that price! But it's still only DDR doubling to 266. Dells double to around 500. If the Xserve is any indication, the drives will only be ATA 133. What's up with that? As long as you're redesigning the system, you might as well put ATA 166 in there, unless you're planning on redesigning the component interfaces sometime soon. Again, if the Xserve is any indication ,still no USB 2. (although this may have a lot to do with the fact that USB 2 is faster than FireWire). But then again, no FireWire 2, either.

So, again, this will be a "just enough to get by" update. Still old technology that's going to get more outdated with every new line of Wintel or AMD boxes. I think it's a never ending cycle. Charge as much as you can for old, cheaper technology. And we keep buying it.


Look on the bright side, though. At least we don't crash as much or have to deal with an annoying, terribly designed, and intrusive OS. I'm going to start a new "crash log" thread. For those of us that use PC's as well. Every time we get the blue screen, we can log it. then whenever we get frustrated with our Macs, we can look to the thread and realize that it could be worse...MUCH worse. ;)

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by iH8Quark
Even with the rumored update, it's still old technology. So it has DDR SDRAM? Great. It SHOULD for that price! But it's still only DDR doubling to 266. Dells double to around 500. If the Xserve is any indication, the drives will only be ATA 133. What's up with that? As long as you're redesigning the system, you might as well put ATA 166 in there, unless you're planning on redesigning the component interfaces sometime soon. Again, if the Xserve is any indication ,still no USB 2. (although this may have a lot to do with the fact that USB 2 is faster than FireWire). But then again, no FireWire 2, either.

Alright Bubba... First, 266DDR (PC2100) memory is nothing to scoff at... Do we really care about what dell tosses into their peecheese??? No, we don't. :p

ATA133 is the fastest you can get, currently. There is no 'only' when you refer to it. :rolleyes: You COULD say 'only' for ATA66 or ATA100, but not ATA133. Even if/when ATA166 does come out, until there are actually hard drives that run at that speed, there is no point in even considering placing it on motherboards.

As for USB2, ***** it... FireWire[1] is still faster than it is for everything that counts.

Ever consider that one of the annoucements at next week's MW is going to be FireWire 2 in all new Mac's??? :p

Suck on it biatch... :eek: :eek: :p :D

[evildead]

Originally posted by sparkleytone
linux blows dude. (http://www.macrumors.com/forums/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=7341)

jaguar will make your hardware woes go away. your hardware is not second rate. its just untapped. just wait.


sounds like you have never used it and probably dont know what it can do.

-evildead

[tjwett]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
sure there will be a boost, but apple is just one small company so it won't go head to head with the latest and fastest

right. they are a small company. and we are agreed that they are selling outdated hardware. then don't you think they should price them competitively? if they can't afford to then they shouldn't be in business anymore. it's survival of the fittest. this is like the mom and pop video and hardware stores trying to fight off Blockbuster and Home Depot. they didn't make it because EVENTUALLY the customers chose variety, lower price, and convenience. this will happen to Apple if they don't start competing. and i don't mean with ad campaigns, i'm talking about PRODUCT! there are only so many Mac "fanatics" that will continue to keep Apple afloat. eventually we'll all get tired of treading water.

[sparkleytone]

Originally posted by evildead



sounds like you have never used it and probably dont know what it can do.

-evildead

sounds like you are an idiot. i know what it can do and i especially know what it CAN'T do. **** off.

take a wild guess at what OS im using in this thread asshole.

http://www.macrumors.com/forums/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=7372

[taeclee99]

My mac theme in Windows Xp.

[Backtothemac]

Ok. I have to have that Aqua Theme for XP. That will make work so much more easy to deal with. ;)

[Grokgod]

Ok, i have to have that Aqua theme, for my Pcheese also!

what app does this theme stuff... whats it called.?

I will have to be on my Pcheese for a while cause of APPLE desire to RIP me with cheap hardware and the fact that I have decided to stand for my convictions!

I am not going to switch to Pcheese and the WINTEL monster party, but I am not buying a new PowerMac till its the freakin BEST!


Originally posted by jefhatfield
sure there will be a boost, but apple is just one small company so it won't go head to head with the latest and fastest

Yea they are a small company with BILLIONS in the bank and doing well.
If I can go to the store and buy DDRAM then so the hell can they!

They arent reinventing the wheel here!

They are years behind and there is no excuse or reason.

When APPLE joins up with the rest of the computer world, I will be buying and not one second before!

Someone has to make a stand, or this will go on forever, it sure as hell feels like it has already! ~ sheesh

[AlphaTech]

Is there an Aqua theme for win2k????

[Backtothemac]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
Is there an Aqua theme for win2k????

That theme is for Windowblinds. Great program really. It is at www.stardock.com

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Grokgod


Yea they are a small company with BILLIONS in the bank and doing well.
If I can go to the store and buy DDRAM then so the hell can they!



actually, that makes sense!

i hope apple has ddr next week:D

[iapple]

If the "Aqua" theme for XP looks THIS similar to X, I think those Apple Lawyers are going to do something about it!!

[taeclee99]

Originally posted by Backtothemac


That theme is for Windowblinds. Great program really. It is at www.stardock.com

The windowblinds skin I am using is called qty X. You can download it at www.wincustomize.com.

The system font is true type font Lucinda Grande.

The aqua icons are harder to find. The site I downloaded them from is closed down. =(

The apple bar I am using is winmac.
http://winmac.emuunlim.com/

The psuedo Itunes app is really a skin for a media player called qcdplayer.
www.quinnware.com.

If you want the itunes skin for qcd player ask me nicely for it in an email.

taeclee@yahoo.com

[solvs]

Yes, thank you. I've been ranting about this for awhile now.

I can understand not having Serial ATA, 400 MHz DDR-RAM, FW2, etc. But what about today's technology?

ATA/133 (so we can have hard drives over 128-137GB), DDR-333, 166 (or higher) FSB, and USB2.

Or even ATA/100, DDR-266, 133 FSB across the board. Today's STANDARD technology, except on the cheaper stuff.

We all know Apples work better, but some of us need faster. Not all of us use them to play games. Buy a PS2 fer *****sake. Digital Video, Imaging, Music, that's why I want a Mac. PCs suck for that stuff. they may be faster, but my PCs ***** up all the time. I had to use one at work. Blech, don't get me started.

WE NEED SPEED.

If the new Towers have DDR and 120 GB hard drives, I'll be happy. I can add a PCI ATA/133 or Serial card if need be. And I'm sure someone will have a combo FW2/USB2.

I'm just gonna be p*ssed that i have to spend $3000 on software I like.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong... But, I'm not.

[Grokgod]

I think that alot of Pros have felt this way, like SOLVS.

There is work to be done and honestly there are a LOT of people searching for a solution to the TWO major issues in the computer world.

Wintel's OS bites it!
APples's hardware is Crap!

Why else would SO many Pro's have moved to Wintel!
Macheads like to remember the days when MAc's were king in the creative fields.

Thats not the case anymore and APPLE understands this or they should.
WHY else would they be asking pro users what they want in a box.

What irritates me is why bother asking if you never plan to deliver.

Later orin a few months isnt what matters here.

This is the big league, its NOW or never, NOt later.

If later worked APPLE wouldnt be at 5%, they would be KING!

[Rower_CPU]

I totally agree with Grok' and solvs.

I love OS X and all the iApps, Final Cut Pro, etc...but damn it's hard to justify paying so much for Apple's hardware when you can get more for less with a PC.

Fending off PC-weenies gets more and more difficult as Apple falls farther and farther behind.

DDR and faster hard-drives are key bottlenecks for Mac performance.

Give us the goods Apple!

[Kethoticus]

I only read through the first page of this thread, but it appears that the Mac fanatics are slowly losing their fanaticism. There is grumbling among the faithful. And to that I say, 'about frickin' time'. Many of you, who formerly apologized for Apple's ineptness, are now realizing that you shouldn't have to take their crap.

No, I am not a closet PC weenie coming in here to bash Macs. I love the Mac user experience. I love the straightforwardness of the system as a whole, from the software to the opening of the side of my B&W to get at any and all of my hardware components. But c'mon.

There is nothing innovative or different about 133MHz FSBs (well, it's different, but hardly innovative). There is nothing insanely great about processors that, in every test I've read over the past 7 or so months, shows that clock for clock, the G4 is equal to the Athlon. The problem is, of course, that the Athlon's clocks are way ahead of the G4's. And why have we waited so long for DDR-RAM?

I'm in love with the end user experience. I love my Mac programs, for both 9 & X. But I am tired of paying 100% more the same level or overall system performance.

I wanted to get a new Mac this year. But what did I do instead? I went out and bought a 3-month old Athlon system (still waiting to decide exactly what kind of RAM it needs and what version of OS would best serve my needs). But I am going to find out, by living with both platforms, which provides the better overall experience. Is the Mac worth the extra dough? I'm inclined to say no, but I'm going to find out for sure during the coming months. How much is this costing me? Well, after all is said and done, I will have spent about $1,000 on a single-1.8GHz Athlon (as far as I know, this is not the 1800+ P4 rating), with about a gig of DDR-RAM, 40-gig HD, GF3 Ti and XP or 2000. How much do you think a comparably-equipped Mac would cost?

C'mon Apple. I want to stick with you. Please give me some good reasons next week.

[D*I*S_Frontman]

Stability. Durability. Flawless hardware/OS integration. User-friendliness. These are why we buy Macs, despite the hardware performance shortfalls.

Any of us who work in Windows environments know that the raw speed of their systems--for the price--is staggering. Even Mac "powerusers" don't use AltiVec-intensive processing 100% of the time, and consumers far less than 50% I would wager. All of Apple's speed bragging is based on Photoshop renders and other such AltiVec-optimized tasks--take that away and PowerMacs get stomped, dollar for dollar.

Hard to convince anyone to "switch" to a more expensive, slower machine, even if it has a clearly better OS, is more reliable, costs less in the long run and has a cooler design ethos.

The Mac faithful (of which I am a card-carrying member, rest assured) have finally learned our lesson. Wait. Don't buy these expensive but still slower machines. Cobble your current Mac set-up or buy a cheap PC as a stop-gap measure until Steve delivers cutting edge hardware again.

I used to work for a small publishing firm who dumped all of their Macs for PCs. Yes, the tech problems experienced a ten-fold increase, and yes, per-user productivity suffered. But they could buy 2 or 3 cheap PCs for every Mac and have more people working productively with less up-front capital outlay. More and more small publishing concerns are following the same path.

I think the bare minimum for remaining competitive would be the latest guesses: 1, 1.2, 1.4ghz DP machines w/DDR RAM and other mobo bandwidth expansion to make full use of the CPU, near top-of-the-line graphics processing, ATA 133. If not at the top of the heap on clock speed, we need to be clearly superior in the MFLOPS score area, and not just with Photoshop renders, either. With everything. No side-by-side test of any kind should show weakness, especially for these prices.

Steve's track record is pretty good since his return. The Cube is the only real failing, and that was more a marketing/pricing failure than a hardware one (borne out by the number of Cube fanatics on this forum). Steve will have to deliver the goods in order to impress any of us who are not lulled by his mesmerizing hype. But he probably will. And we will buy and maintain our evangelical fervor for the platform.

But he'd better hurry.

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
That theme is for Windowblinds. Great program really. It is at www.stardock.com

Ugh!!! I attempted that last night... seems that it doesn't like win2k all that much (those BASTARDS!!). The skins I wanted to use wouldn't work for me, so I just removed it and went back to the standard peecee look. At least that doesn't act whacked when I need it to function.

[AlphaTech]

Hey, Kethoticus, how much are you dumping on the XP2200+ chip?? That is the one rated at 1.8GHz. You are paying for a whopping 70MHz difference between that chip and the 2100+. I have the 2100+ inside my game peecee at home, and it humms right along.

One thing that is very important, get a quality case, and power supply. CoolerMaster makes excellent cases, and you pay for the quality construction. I picked up the ATC110 not too long ago, and it is the best case I have ever seen or used. Zero sharp edges and you really don't need any tools to open it up.

The type of memory is dictated by the motherboard... As is the maximum amount it can take (also affected by the type).

Don't blow the money on a GF3 card, get a Radeon 8500. I have one of those, and I get very high frame rates, and no problems at all with GTA3 (where people are b*tchin all over about crappy frame rates).

Send me a PM, and I can give you a more detailed run down of the game über system that I constructed... :D

[Grokgod]

You hit it on the head D*I*S*!

I am going to use my PCheese as a stop gap also and refuse to buy another cosmetic tech bumped mac. No way in Hell.

I understand what your saying about Photoshop.
But I cant even get Photoshop to respond at the rate that my 2.2 Pcheese does.
It painfully slow in comaparison to my Ti 800.

WHen I buy a new computer I want MORE power and greater USE.
NOT a reason to justify its slow speed with good looks.

I make large files for print and the MIN for my graphics is 300 dpi but i prefer 600.

This really taxes RAM, CPU and Graphics power, believe me!

The MAc I have CHokes! I mean CHOKES.

In fact there is a recent thread where its stated that a DP 1 giger is choking!
Its the freaking bottle necks I think, because ALtivec doesnt seem to be helping as JOBS loves to display.

OK so, just in case there are TROLLS from APPLE here.
AND incase they are still not understanding what the whole pro community has been saying for so long!

INcrease the Hardware specs with those new units your hiding in your backroom.
Or we are not buying anything!
Its easy to get a cheap Pcheese and use it as a stop gap till the next MW.
or till APPLE comes around, if they ever do.

Imagine the money that is saved if you use the STOPGAP.
Instead of spending it on a MAC that is another mere speedbump.
THousands! What does that mean to APPLE, MILLIONS!

Someone needs to wake up.

[AlphaTech]

Hey Grok... where are you outputting those images where 600dpi is actually benefitial??? Anything more then 2x the line screen is just a waste of drive space. 300dpi comes out sweet as lovin with either a 150lpi or 175lpi press run.

[Slogo]

There was an editoral a couple of months ago in MacAddict that pretty much said the same thing as is being said here. The main reason given for the lag in hardware at Apple was because of the G4 processor unable to support the better hardware. Now I have no idea if this is indeed the case but what tics me off much more than no DDR memory or higher system bus is Motorola. They are the ones who need a swift kick in the pants. I can't believe that Apple is just sitting back and letting M take their sweet old time. I think that Apple should buy the Processor division of M and be done with it. Then they would truly be in control of their own destiny, and not be riding someone else's coatails waiting for them to put some effort into developing their chips.