Apple Interactive Displays?

[MacRumors]

One unverified source provided some interesting information prior to today's Airport Express release.

This source predicted "new airport base stations" with Audio/Video outputs. The new base station was said to be about the size of an iPod and cost around $99.

Except for video out, the description accurately describes Apple's new Airport Express. Of more interest is another prediction for "Interactive" displays coming from Apple from the same source. These new displays are compared to Wacom's Cintiq (http://www.wacom.com/lcdtablets/index.cfm) tablet which is described as follows:

Wacom's Cintiq 18SX and 15X interactive pen displays combine the advantages of an LCD monitor with the control, comfort, and productivity of Wacom's patented cordless, battery-free tablet technology. By working directly on the screen, you navigate much more quickly and naturally

Apple tablet rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/02/20030221004455.shtml) infiltrated the Mac Rumor scene in early 2003 but has since led to no actual product releases.

It's unclear if the recent whispers of hangable displays (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/06/20040606174201.shtml) is related rumor or not.

[rdowns]

Holy reality distortion field, I'm ODing on all these rumors.

[proglife]

Holy crap! This sounds a lot like my "thinking out loud" last night!

A central CPU and maybe little portable tablet-like browsers on the cheap. I dunno....Apple could really do it up here.

[hob]

you're telling me

new headline: "Arn's head falls off due to excessive updates!" This is a bussssy time of year! I love june :D

Hob

[mark_wilkins]

Apple tablet rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/02/20030221004455.shtml) infiltrated the Mac Rumor scene in early 2003 but has since led to no actual product releases.


Then there's this article from AppleInsider:

Jobs: Apple developed, but did not ship Apple PDA (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=484)

-- Mark

[Macmaniac]

WOW what a day, the rumors are pouring through the flood gates. June is going to be sweet, I hope a lot of this comes true! MMMmm displays :eek:

[Abu Reno]

Still waiting to see a 30 inch ......

[applekid]

I load MacRumors and I see a new topic in the Rumors forum. I go to the front page, and it's another rumor!

Busy day and night :)

[DreaminDirector]

Still waiting to see a 30 inch ......

A 30" tablet! yeah. No, I'm kidding. I know what you mean.

This sounds great. I mean I can imagine how this might help the graphic design world! Now, I'm excited for WWDC!

[hob]

Then there's this article from AppleInsider:

Jobs: Apple developed, but did not ship Apple PDA (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=484)

-- Mark

OMG! They could at least let us see what it looks like. No doubt we'll see it in 10 years or something :(

Imagine the amount of manpower wasted though! They'd have had to develop OS X for PDA!

[thrillz3]

I am going to be glued to my monitor during the WWDC Keynote.

[LaMerVipere]

SO...MANY....RUMORS.....IN......ONE........DAY...........

CAN'T............


TAKE.................


MUCH.....................


MORE................................

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[DreaminDirector]

I thought of something interesting. The Wacom is quoted to have "patented cordless, battery-free tablet technology". Battery-free? How is that, I thought...

Now, Firewire can carry power, right? If 802.11g can carry a signal, is there any knowledge whether the new wireless firewire (there was an article about and I apologize I don't have the link...) can carry power? Wireless power?

Is that even possible?

[Freg3000]

This is AMAZING!

I can't keep it all straight.....and most of these are all rumors are pre-WWDC.....can you imagine what it will be like the days before the keynote!

The past few rumorless months have been made up all in one day!

Hanging displays seem very cool, and if it is from the same source that fairly accurately predicted Airport Express.....:)

Good things are in store for us.

[evil]

that "interactive display" if true will be amazing.

[copperpipe]

has anyone here used the cintiq display/tablets? I am an avid user of the wacom tablet, and was wondering if it really is that much better or pros/cons of the cintiq...

[mvc]

Graphic Designers and Artists of the world would rejoice - Oh Let it be true! I have been waiting for this solution since 1987 when I first used a Drawing Tablet (with a Puck!) on a crusty old XT and thought - Damn, wish this thing had a screen in it as well!

;)

[aussiemac86]

I thought of something interesting. The Wacom is quoted to have "patented cordless, battery-free tablet technology". Battery-free? How is that, I thought...

Now, Firewire can carry power, right? If 802.11g can carry a signal, is there any knowledge whether the new wireless firewire (there was an article about and I apologize I don't have the link...) can carry power? Wireless power?

Is that even possible?



Not really possible.
To get the required power through the air to power a device such as a display would require an enormous output at the source (basestation etc). Like it would have to be far more than what you can draw out of a powerpoint at home. Also the inverse square law states that for every increase in radius(range) the strength decreases by a factor of four. So at most you might be able to have it sitting right next to the basestation. These levels of power going through the air are not healthy as well, and would cause cancer and **** pretty bad.

[Laslo Panaflex]

Sounds good. I can't wait to take to morning off and going to my friends house to watch the keynote on his projection screen like I did last year. He has one of those old satelites, guess they are usefull after all/.

[appleface]

i'll be able to set my closed pb on the shelf, hold my apple pda in my hand, and control my monitor that is hanging on the wall (that is connected via usb 2.0 to my airport express? and connected wirelessly to my pb). apple technology is sweet.

[.a]

... all the video stuff sounds expensive .. well as a graphician i would like to invest in something like that!
.a

[GFLPraxis]

Wow, I'm actually posting on the first page!

I hope really, REALLY bad they put this in a powerbook, if it is true :D

I've always wanted a Tablet, for Math class. It's a nightmare to take notes with the keyboard, though I've gotten quite good at it.

[davecuse]

I thought of something interesting. The Wacom is quoted to have "patented cordless, battery-free tablet technology". Battery-free? How is that, I thought...

Now, Firewire can carry power, right? If 802.11g can carry a signal, is there any knowledge whether the new wireless firewire (there was an article about and I apologize I don't have the link...) can carry power? Wireless power?

Is that even possible?

By cordless they mean the Pen is not connected by a cord. The actual tablet still hooks through a wire. If you read any specs on even the cheapest Wacom tablets, they are cordless as well.

[windowsblowsass]

no one picked up on the fact that the article said they would probably beoled

[scottkle]

In response to a previous post, cintiq tablets are nothing short of incredible.

What I don't understand though is why Apple would want to make wacom mad by stepping in on their turf.

And, if they are going to release such a tablet, why would they stop there? The tablet based mac is just another step up. I know they aren't doing well in the PC world, but that's because it's in the PC world. Apple could do it.

My credit card is going to be maxed out this month.

[aswitcher]

This is all very exciting but I do hope that the next gen powerbooks dont appear at WWDC with this technology! Or anytime soon for that matter. But then I am a bit biased at the moment...

[aswitcher]

Decapitating iMac rumors now looking stronger! :eek:

:D

[themacman]

WOW. Who ever thought of this. If people get upset about the whole 3Ghz thing, I have a Dual 2 G5, and that is amazing fast. This will cover up anything jobs was lacking. This idea gets a an A

[MentalFabric]

"When Jobs was demonstrating the new Airport Express, Walt Mossberg said that the biggest problem he saw was that users had to get up and walk to your computer to change play lists. Jobs joked that walking was good, but when pressed, he smiled a wry smile. AppleInsider correspondents took this to mean that Apple is developing in this area, and the Airport Express is just a step along the way."

I wonder if a tablet device has anything to do with how apple wants people to use AE away from the computer?...

I think that sounds pretty likely. More likely than stuffing airport inside an iPod, space in there is tight enough already, even with those new smaller cards.

Just a thought.

[QCassidy352]

no one picked up on the fact that the article said they would probably beoled

can someone explain the significance to me of OLED displays?

Also - there are 2 "displays" being talked about here, right? There are the updated cinema displays, expected soon (I hope!) and then there are these interactive tablet-like displays. Those are two different products... right??

[obeygiant]

Has anyone ever used a cintiq tablet?

While they seem useful for such programs as photoshop,
the pen actually GETS IN THE WAY, when you're trying to
do any retouching or detail work.

Although I am excited about the possiblity of an interactive
cinema display, sometimes the practicality of it is deceiving.

BTW, i may have one for sale... :smile:

[davecuse]

can someone explain the significance to me of OLED displays?

Also - there are 2 "displays" being talked about here, right? There are the updated cinema displays, expected soon (I hope!) and then there are these interactive tablet-like displays. Those are two different products... right??

OLED is an organic light display. The main difference is that LED constantly has to update what is being displayed on screen, thus it takes a lot of energy to power. An OLED however only refreshes portions of your screen that are actually changing, this takes away the flicker aspect and additionally makes something like a futuristic magazine possible. Think of it like an etch-a-sketch on steroids. It's foldable, low power consuming, and really cool. You could essentially unfold a piece of paper and have it display anything. I'm pretty sure that Coca Cola used them for some of their advertising at the Atlanta Games a few years back. It's available it just needs to be widely adopted by hardware manufacturers.

[boy]

what ever kind of display it is.. im just glad its something new! finally..

[appleface]

no one picked up on the fact that the article said they would probably beoled

woah. which article is this? i'm excited about oled displays! they're supposed to be cheap (eventually).

edit:
found it:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=492

[appleface]

i know this is my third post in this forum, but i wanted to explicitly say, "woohoo!" oled displays and wireless advancement--my geek dreams are coming true.

[andrewh]

Has anyone ever used a cintiq tablet?

While they seem useful for such programs as photoshop,
the pen actually GETS IN THE WAY, when you're trying to
do any retouching or detail work.

Although I am excited about the possiblity of an interactive
cinema display, sometimes the practicality of it is deceiving.

BTW, i may have one for sale... :smile:


Yes I agree completely. I have tried them out at Macworld and they seem like they would be pretty cool but I think in reality there is limited application for the Cintiq. First of all you would have to keep moving your hand off the screen to use the keyboard and there is much less hand travel between an Intuos tablet and the keyboard. Secondly, the side of your hand is all over the screen making it dirty. Plus, there is a lot of screen to navigate with your hand. On my Wacom Intuos 6x9, I can navigate two 20" LCD's in only a few inches of hand travel. I can't imaging being more productive with my hand all over a 30" display.

They are probably only good for people doing some illustration with Painter or CAD but on the Mac that is a small group, harly lucrative for Apple. It's not going to happen.

[toughboy]

I love Junes.. so many rumors and so many releases.. :D

by the way, do we really need tablet-mac?.. the answer is a big NO on my case.. I already hate tablet-pc's and find them useless, an iBook should stay like an iBook not a tablet-thing..

but you know what, if Apple is really going to update displays, why not make them airport competable, so you may hang your 23" display on the wall without any boundaries..

[Larz]

And I was wondering why Alias Sketchbook Pro (http://www.alias.com/eng/products-services/sketchbook_pro/index.shtml) was just released for Mac OS X. This software was originally made (and comes with) Tablet PC's. It was designed to be used without a keyboard...

[~Shard~]

I thought of something interesting. The Wacom is quoted to have "patented cordless, battery-free tablet technology". Battery-free? How is that, I thought...

Now, Firewire can carry power, right? If 802.11g can carry a signal, is there any knowledge whether the new wireless firewire (there was an article about and I apologize I don't have the link...) can carry power? Wireless power?

Is that even possible?

Wireless FireWire can't carry power, at least not effectively - power decreases exponentially, I believe - I'd have to research the actual facts, but it's something like that. It will be some time before we see feasible "wireless power" in any aspect of life, let alone computers. :)

[narco]

If true, what's it going to cost? $5,000?

// narco

[BWhaler]

I saw Steve at the D conference today, and let me tell you he came down hard on no streaming video.

Walt asked him a bunch of times and someone from the audience did also, but Steve was adamantly against it.

Steve said that their research shows people don't want to stream video. You put a DVD in a DVD player and play it. Walt pressed him and said, well you guys make iMovie and those videos are on a hard drive, and Steve responded that you can burn a DVD with a SuperDrive.

What about iPhoto? No one asked that question, but I doubt with today's release a video version is coming soon since it would piss off customers who are buying this month, plus, what would they call it? Airport Express AV?

I don't buy it, and this comes from sitting 12 feet from Steve for an hour and half today.

[Analog Kid]

Not really possible.
To get the required power through the air to power a device such as a display would require an enormous output at the source (basestation etc). Like it would have to be far more than what you can draw out of a powerpoint at home. Also the inverse square law states that for every increase in radius(range) the strength decreases by a factor of four. So at most you might be able to have it sitting right next to the basestation. These levels of power going through the air are not healthy as well, and would cause cancer and **** pretty bad.

The inverse square law means that power drops by a factor of 4 for every doubling in distance, not each increase.

You're probably reading his original post correctly in thinking that the whole tablet was wireless, in which case you're right that powering it wirelessly would be unworkable.

If what the question meant was "how can you power the stylus wirelessly", which is what the unit is doing, I'll extend your answer a bit:

First, you wouldn't be looking at as sharp a power drop off with distance because the transmission would be focused through the tablet-- non-spherical radiation pattern.

Second it's not hard to get sufficient power from the tablet to the stylus-- it's a short distance (inches) and the stylus only needs a minute amount of juice.

Second-and-a-half is that the stylus is probably in the nearfield for the tablet, so it wouldn't even radiate so much as reactively couple (think transformer).

Third, Wacom probably isn't powering the stylus at all, just measuring the distortion in some field as the stylus passes through (except they're clicky styluses, aren't they... So there must be some signal traveling back...).

The problem isn't too much different than an RFID tag-- they get powered from the reader and blip back a little bit of data.

In summary: there is no power transmitted by wireless firewire, but it's possible to power a small stylus over a short distance without wires by other means.

[Analog Kid]

In response to a previous post, cintiq tablets are nothing short of incredible.

What I don't understand though is why Apple would want to make wacom mad by stepping in on their turf.

And, if they are going to release such a tablet, why would they stop there? The tablet based mac is just another step up. I know they aren't doing well in the PC world, but that's because it's in the PC world. Apple could do it.

I think Wacom makes most of the "tablet" hardware for "tablet PCs". I don't think they'd mind licensing it to Apple and getting a royalty per display.

How many Macs have tablets? Now, how many have displays?

[~Shard~]

The inverse square law means that power drops by a factor of 4 for every doubling in distance, not each increase.

You're probably reading his original post correctly in thinking that the whole tablet was wireless, in which case you're right that powering it wirelessly would be unworkable.

If what the question meant was "how can you power the stylus wirelessly", which is what the unit is doing, I'll extend your answer a bit:

First, you wouldn't be looking at as sharp a power drop off with distance because the transmission would be focused through the tablet-- non-spherical radiation pattern.

Second it's not hard to get sufficient power from the tablet to the stylus-- it's a short distance (inches) and the stylus only needs a minute amount of juice.

Second-and-a-half is that the stylus is probably in the nearfield for the tablet, so it wouldn't even radiate so much as reactively couple (think transformer).

Third, Wacom probably isn't powering the stylus at all, just measuring the distortion in some field as the stylus passes through (except they're clicky styluses, aren't they... So there must be some signal traveling back...).

The problem isn't too much different than an RFID tag-- they get powered from the reader and blip back a little bit of data.

In summary: there is no power transmitted by wireless firewire, but it's possible to power a small stylus over a short distance without wires by other means.

Thanks for this, this is the information I was trying to recall in my earlier post, referencing the inverse square law. As I said, practical "wireless power" is a significant ways away yet!

[Wonder Boy]

I am going to be glued to my monitor during the WWDC Keynote.

i'm going to my first in-store keynote. i can't wait.

[wdlove]

All this continued flurry of speculation is certainly getting exciting.

I plan on being at my local Apple Store for the Keynote also. I really enjoyed it being with a group during MWSF '04.

[Analog Kid]

no one picked up on the fact that the article said they would probably be oled

First, notice how nicely italics would get your point across without being an eyesore... :rolleyes:

Second, OLED doesn't really offer much for desktop displays other than shorter life so Apple will get more repeat business... Great for portable, but not sure what the point is for desktops.

A little thinner maybe, because there's no backlight...

[windowsblowsass]

First, notice how nicely italics would get your point across without being an eyesore... :rolleyes:

Second, OLED doesn't really offer much for desktop displays other than shorter life so Apple will get more repeat business... Great for portable, but not sure what the point is for desktops.

A little thinner maybe, because there's no backlight...
things big attract the eyes italics not so much 0it caught your attention didnt it

anyways i believe that t refreshes mch better and has better color

[jouster]

The other important thing about OLEDs, iirc, is that they do not require a backlight, but rather phosphoresce when a (much smaller) current is applied. They are consequently much less of a drain on whatever power source - in this case, a battery - is powering the device.

However, I also recall reading that they are still some way from the market, except in small (phone) sizes.

We'll see soon enough. I'm guessing they're a lock, the only real question being when.

[Analog Kid]

Thanks for this, this is the information I was trying to recall in my earlier post, referencing the inverse square law. As I said, practical "wireless power" is a significant ways away yet!

Not to put too fine a point on it-- photovoltaics are wireless power and they've been practical for desktop calculators and roadside emergency phones for years... ;)

[MasonMcD]

Like the tipster who sort of got the AirPort Express right, I think the "interactive displays" is more like a small remote for AirPort Express to manage your playlists or something.

That's why Joswiak (I think it was him) said *for now* you have to walk to the computer.

[Spock]

That's why Joswiak (I think it was him) said *for now* you have to walk to the computer.

I would like to have a Airport Express for iPod so I can sync my iPod Playlists and control my Powermac with the iPod.

[~Shard~]

Not to put too fine a point on it-- photovoltaics are wireless power and they've been practical for desktop calculators and roadside emergency phones for years... ;)

Very true - I was just thinking more large scale and prevalent.

[Lepton]

OLED displays generate their own light. They take less power than an LCD and backlight. They are incredibly bright and high contrast. They are incredibly thin and light and can even be slightly flexible.

Wacom technology needs no battery in the pen. The tablet can sense pen pressure, and angle to the surface. You can put buttons on the pen, and/or click by tapping the pen against the screen. Though you need the pen and can't use a finger, the pen is cordless, and it's an important advantage that resting your hand on the surface of the large tablet won't mess up the sensed position of the pen.

Since Wacom tablet technology does not need physical contact with the pen, you can put the OLED display on TOP of the tablet. There are no parallax problems, and only a thin, clear protective film over the display, keeping the brightness very high indeed. Should be no problem at all in the sun.

Add AirPort and a light battery (current rechargable battery tech allows the battery to be as large as the tablet and extremly thin) and you've got one HECK of a mobile display.

[rlreif]

I may be wrong, but it seems that my sonicare toothbrush charges this way. There are no metal contacts on the charger or the brush itself... just smotth plastic on both sides.... dunno...



Second it's not hard to get sufficient power from the tablet to the stylus-- it's a short distance (inches) and the stylus only needs a minute amount of juice.

Second-and-a-half is that the stylus is probably in the nearfield for the tablet, so it wouldn't even radiate so much as reactively couple (think transformer).

Third, Wacom probably isn't powering the stylus at all, just measuring the distortion in some field as the stylus passes through (except they're clicky styluses, aren't they... So there must be some signal traveling back...).

The problem isn't too much different than an RFID tag-- they get powered from the reader and blip back a little bit of data.

In summary: there is no power transmitted by wireless firewire, but it's possible to power a small stylus over a short distance without wires by other means.[/QUOTE]

[pdxdeano]

Steve said this would be a great year for the Mac and it looks like he is going to keep his word.

Also..thanks Macrumors for keeping us up to date

[Analog Kid]

I may be wrong, but it seems that my sonicare toothbrush charges this way. There are no metal contacts on the charger or the brush itself... just smotth plastic on both sides.... dunno...


Yeah-- reactive coupling (see "second-and-a-half" point). Basically one coil of a transformer is in the base and the second coil is in the toothbrush.

Works fine over short distances-- and makes it easy to waterproof the electronics.

[Chilton]

Every time I hear these rumors it makes me think of the same device (which I've put online, so I don't have to retype it). Of course, I'll buy anything Apple makes...

http://chiltonwebb.com/ipal.html

-Chilton

[DHagan4755]

I don't think OLED is mature enough for the size of displays Apple would be refreshing for desktops. ...Perhaps for the iPod or some other small device...

[rikers_mailbox]

I don't think OLED is mature enough for the size of displays Apple would be refreshing for desktops. ...Perhaps for the iPod or some other small device...

I beg to differ. (http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/display/sanyoFlat.jhtml)

[SiliconAddict]

Jobs: Apple developed, but did not ship Apple PDA (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=484)

Jobs said Apple is working very hard at getting the price down on the iPod. When asked when it will happen, he just smiled.

ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Can I hate this man any more?!?!? :mad: Jobs and his little freaking games!!!

[dizastor]

seems like lately it's feast or famine....

I wonder if these displays will be part of the new imac.

[xtbfx]

Steve said this would be a great year for the Mac and it looks like he is going to keep his word.

Also..thanks Macrumors for keeping us up to date

here here!

The first part of June and it's already such an exciting time.

I really hope the OLED comes true. Those displays are very cool and are on the cutting edge of technology.

[silvergunuk]

Can this OLED be used for a next gen ipod where the screen becomes a whole interactive surface? With Apples design and presentation this can become 1 slick looking product to keep Apple way ahead of the competition. Imagine smooth scrolling of images and text that makes up a smart looking gui where text fades in and out in a sleek manner.. okay im getting ahead of myself here. With wifi built in [drools].

(mum bangs on ceiling with broom) "WAKE UP SAM!!! WAKE UP, YOUR VIBERATING THE LIGHT FITTINGS!!!)

[adamfilip]

I love the idea of your ipod having airport built in.. and being able to stream it via airport to airport express

or using your ipod as a remote to scream from your Mac..

[dontmatter]

Apple tablet rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/02/20030221004455.shtml) infiltrated the Mac Rumor scene in early 2003 but has since led to no actual product releases.

It's unclear if the recent whispers of hangable displays (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/06/20040606174201.shtml) is related rumor or not.

hangable display you can write on....who wants to write on a wall? I mean, besides for the bad wordplay....

Don't think these are connected.

Also, due to the sad fact that there isn't realy anywhere radical, esp. radically simpler, that laptop design can go... you don't want your hands where the screen is, or the screen where your hands are...

[jonatan_bien]

Why the screen can't be seperated?

Think of that: it just hung on a lever or something so you can take it off start walking around while the major unit (CPU and stuff) wirelessly sending the data and you going around your house, skecting or anything...

Actually, you can put the mac on the working room while watking your favourite show you have just downloaded on the bedroom....

BTW. It my first post ever! hope to be a switcher soon...

[macnews]

I am all for an updated display. I would love a smaller tablet/laptop version being able to write on the screen. At the very least I am all for updated displays. One old 17" had the backlight go out and it just isn't worth replacing when I need a 20 or 23.

[virividox]

well the airtunes is true!!! i am reading up on it now

[timdorr]

In case you wanted more confirmation this device is really going to happen (in some form):

[quote]"This is the first step to making a connection between your computer and your stereo. Today you will have to go to your Mac to change the playlist," said Joswiak.[quote]

http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2004/06/07/jobsd/index.php?redirect=1086654483000

Well, if this is today, we will have to speculate about tomorrow... ;)

[videogame_junky]

This is my first post... And I will hopefully be getting my first mac very soon.

Did anyone else notice the current displays are not at the top of the page anymore? Looks Kinda like they might be reorganizing it for several new products... hopefully tomarrow.

VGJ

[Trimix]

for me this points towards the following

a new G5 iMac, cube shaped, with a remote touch screen, that can be carried around in the house.

that placed at the consumer level and it would cause AAPL to rock to $40 dollars in no time :D

okay okay okay, let me dream, will you please ??????

[PolarbearTed]

Holy reality distortion field, I'm ODing on all these rumors.

Hahaha! I'd concur on that point. Absolute flood of rumours now. Looking forward to the next few days.

[the future]

I really don't think OLED is ready yet for desktop displays as large as those that Apple will (hopefully) announce soon... this being said... Jonathan Ive would feel like a kid in a candy shop if he could design displays around this technology! I can't even begin to imagine how awesome they're gonna be (someday)... :)

Where those super-thin, extremely energy-efficient OLED displays make even more sense is obviously in Laptops... Powerbook G5, anyone? (And don't forget to include that rumored carbon enclosure, Jonathan!) Today's laptops will look very clunky in comparison... :o

For 2004, we will have to settle for 4G iPods with little OLED displays (and WiFi capabilities!), I'm afraid... :D



P.S. Don't I just love those emoticons... ;)

[Porchland]

Like the tipster who sort of got the AirPort Express right, I think the "interactive displays" is more like a small remote for AirPort Express to manage your playlists or something.

That's why Joswiak (I think it was him) said *for now* you have to walk to the computer.

Exactly. A Wi-Fi-enabled remote would be a nice brand extension of the AirPort Express. The differences between a Wi-Fi remote, Wi-Fi iPod and Wi-Fi PDA would be so minute that such a device could be THE next-gen iPod.

The device would be handheld and have a small display, which the iPod already has. The only thing new, really, is Wi-Fi and software. I know that Wi-Fi would make the device larger, but I understand that the new 60-gigger is actually a smaller drive. Makes sense to me.

[azdude]

Very true - I was just thinking more large scale and prevalent.

Actually, I wouldn't consider photovoltaic cells 'wireless power' in the manner that was being discussed. I'd call it "local, independent power generation."

"Wireless Power" as it was discussed here would be better defined as power *generated* somewhere else and *transmitted* to the device. (OK, OK... maybe the Sun's radiant energy could stretch itself into that definition. lol who cares anyway ;))

[displaced]

Exactly. A Wi-Fi-enabled remote would be a nice brand extension of the AirPort Express. The differences between a Wi-Fi remote, Wi-Fi iPod and Wi-Fi PDA would be so minute that such a device could be THE next-gen iPod.

The device would be handheld and have a small display, which the iPod already has. The only thing new, really, is Wi-Fi and software. I know that Wi-Fi would make the device larger, but I understand that the new 60-gigger is actually a smaller drive. Makes sense to me.

OLED and WiFi would certainly be great additions to the iPod.

But I also like the idea of an OLED panel acting as a 'smart remote' for the existing devices. Airport Express brings us ubiquitous wireless, as well as a great network audio interface. Imagine having a touch-screen OLED panel, totally programmable so that its entire layout and design changes depending on context. It'll be an audio controller with your music library displayed one moment, tap a button which switches the Mac to iPhoto, and you've got a portable, intelligent picture frame. Tap again, and you've got your OS X address book right there in front of you, anywhere. Tap again, and browse your mail.


... and all the horsepower for this would be in the Mac -- the panel's just displaying what's sent to it over the wireless LAN, and sending user input back to the Mac.



I've been using Salling Clicker with my Bluetooth-enabled T610. This begins to approach the sort of thing I'm talking about, but is just a little too clunky, limited as you are by the GUI capabilities of the phone's software. A smart panel would provide the kind of 'blank canvas' for Apple to design something truly great to use.


This is so elegant, I could easily see Apple making it happen. It wouldn't be anything near as complex as Microsoft's ill-fated Mira displays. Just a simple controller and information display, the function of which is decided by software on the Mac.

The possibilities for 3rd party apps would be pretty exciting, too. Something Salling Clicker-esque would be bound to appear.

I'm pretty taken with this idea... :)

[edit.. yet again]
And... have the Mac support multiple panels... each user can be doing something different... Combine with Fast User Switching -- let one person play their iTunes through the speakers in one room, controlled by their iPad, and allow another to play their songs in another room via another AirPort Express and iPad...

... my brain's running with this one... :) :)

[SuperChuck]

Third, Wacom probably isn't powering the stylus at all, just measuring the distortion in some field as the stylus passes through (except they're clicky styluses, aren't they... So there must be some signal traveling back...).

I always assumed my Wacom was using magnets. Couldn't the tablet itself be designed to detect minute changes in the distance and angle of a magnetic object (or multiple magnetic objects, which facilitates the use of the multi-button scrollwheel mice)?

[sinisterdesign]

I really don't think OLED is ready yet for desktop displays...
Where those super-thin, extremely energy-efficient OLED displays make even more sense is obviously in Laptops...

while i'm VERY excited about the possibility of OLED displays, there are still some issues with them. they don't have that long of a lifespan, which would be a VERY big bummer for a laptop (less so for an iPod, simply b/c it's cheaper & likely replaced more often). but nevertheless, i would be P.O.'ed if my laptop dimmed out after a few years:

(from Scientific America (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=0003FCE7-2A46-1FFB-AA4683414B7F0000&sc=I100322))
"Their screens put out more than 100 candelas per square meter (about the luminance of a notebook screen) and last tens of thousands of hours (several years of regular use) before they dim to half their original radiance."

but there's no doubt that we'll see them more often & in more creative places. fun stuff!

[sushi]

I saw Steve at the D conference today, and let me tell you he came down hard on no streaming video.
Sad to hear.

I do many presentations using TVs and projector systems. To be able to do this wirelessly would be so wonderful. I could be at the podium going through the presentation without the connecting wires to the projector/TV.

Dang!

For business, this would be very convenient. PowerPoint on the go wirelessly.

Dang Again!

Sushi

[whooleytoo]

Then there's this article from AppleInsider:

Jobs: Apple developed, but did not ship Apple PDA (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=484)

I haven't seen Jobs' original quote, but the AppleInsider report is a little ambiguous. He could simply have meant he's proud they didn't ship a PDA.

[Damek]

I understand the desire for a wireless iPod, but I think the downsides make it very unlikely. Namely, it would be both 1) bigger and 2) hungrier. You'd have to plug it in all the time. WiFi would suck up more energy, and my iPod already only lasts about a day for regular use. If I dock it at work, it maintains a charge longer because it's charging over the USB2, but wouldn't the point of WiFi be less wires, and less docking? Therefore less charging. Hungrier power requirements and less charging without massive improvements in battery technology spells no WiFiPod.

Some sort of remote could be neat, but how would such a thing actually work? Assuming a screen and WiFi like everyone seems to be suggesting, I suppose it would Rendezvous for shared iTunes libraries & shared AirTunes speakers. You would select one of each, and then be able to control the shared iTunes to play music over the specified speakers. You would probably then have to give the remote device permission to control your iTunes in this manner, otherwise people could be walking down the street futzing with different iTunes libraries. In a perfect world they wouldn't have access to your network in the first place to do such a thing, but this isn't a perfect world. Even if it was, though, given multiple shared iTunes libraries in a house, and multiple remotes, and multiple speakers, they'd all have to have proper pairing & permissions to work. I have no doubt that Apple could make such things simple and obvious, but you can see how complex such a remote device would ultimately be. I'm sure they're working on it.

Of course, having WiFi would also suck up the power, so the remote would either need better battery technology, or a charging cradle. I guess in that case it would make sense to merge the remote functions with an iPod, and just tell people they have to put it in the cradle all the time to charge it when not in use? Seems inconvenient, though. Damn we need better battery technology!

Finally, for screens, I'm not a designer or creator or anything so, personally, tablets and touch screens aren't very interesting to me (except maybe in a remote/ipod/pda type device). I would just be happy with a wireless display. It wouldn't even have to be portable. It would just be awesome to be able to mount a display on the wall that is able to do one thing: receive video wirelessly. You could have an outlet installed behind it, and, voila: no visible wires! Hang it like a painting. All we'd need then is a DVD player capable of delivering WiFi video, plug the cable box into the DVD player like normal, and all the video I might want to play can be viewed on the screen, including video from our laptops (or "headless" iMac or PowerMac someday). That would be the bomb! Digital hub, indeed - one screen to receive all the video. Too bad they made AirPort Express only for iTunes audio - it would be great to just have a general audio driver to send audio over WiFi to any speakers.

Although I suppose the network would start to get pretty congested with this WiFi screen and WiFi speakers receiving all this video and audio over the air. But they shouldn't have to be on the internet, they could be a separate A/V network, the computer's A/V drivers would send data to them, but other communication would go out on the regular LAN/WAN network...

Ah, dreams. Apple makes them possible! Or at least more fun...

[titaniumducky]

I understand the desire for a wireless iPod, but I think the downsides make it very unlikely. Namely, it would be both 1) bigger and 2) hungrier. You'd have to plug it in all the time. WiFi would suck up more energy, and my iPod already only lasts about a day for regular use. If I dock it at work, it maintains a charge longer because it's charging over the USB2, but wouldn't the point of WiFi be less wires, and less docking? Therefore less charging. Hungrier power requirements and less charging without massive improvements in battery technology spells no WiFiPod.

Some sort of remote could be neat, but how would such a thing actually work? Assuming a screen and WiFi like everyone seems to be suggesting, I suppose it would Rendezvous for shared iTunes libraries & shared AirTunes speakers. You would select one of each, and then be able to control the shared iTunes to play music over the specified speakers. You would probably then have to give the remote device permission to control your iTunes in this manner, otherwise people could be walking down the street futzing with different iTunes libraries. In a perfect world they wouldn't have access to your network in the first place to do such a thing, but this isn't a perfect world. Even if it was, though, given multiple shared iTunes libraries in a house, and multiple remotes, and multiple speakers, they'd all have to have proper pairing & permissions to work. I have no doubt that Apple could make such things simple and obvious, but you can see how complex such a remote device would ultimately be. I'm sure they're working on it.

Of course, having WiFi would also suck up the power, so the remote would either need better battery technology, or a charging cradle. I guess in that case it would make sense to merge the remote functions with an iPod, and just tell people they have to put it in the cradle all the time to charge it when not in use? Seems inconvenient, though. Damn we need better battery technology!

Finally, for screens, I'm not a designer or creator or anything so, personally, tablets and touch screens aren't very interesting to me (except maybe in a remote/ipod/pda type device). I would just be happy with a wireless display. It wouldn't even have to be portable. It would just be awesome to be able to mount a display on the wall that is able to do one thing: receive video wirelessly. You could have an outlet installed behind it, and, voila: no visible wires! Hang it like a painting. All we'd need then is a DVD player capable of delivering WiFi video, plug the cable box into the DVD player like normal, and all the video I might want to play can be viewed on the screen, including video from our laptops (or "headless" iMac or PowerMac someday). That would be the bomb! Digital hub, indeed - one screen to receive all the video. Too bad they made AirPort Express only for iTunes audio - it would be great to just have a general audio driver to send audio over WiFi to any speakers.

Although I suppose the network would start to get pretty congested with this WiFi screen and WiFi speakers receiving all this video and audio over the air. But they shouldn't have to be on the internet, they could be a separate A/V network, the computer's A/V drivers would send data to them, but other communication would go out on the regular LAN/WAN network...

Ah, dreams. Apple makes them possible! Or at least more fun...

The new WiFi chip is very small and requires very little power. When Apple converts the scroll-device to the one of the mini, they have some extra room to play around with. This easily gives them enough room to shrink the iPod and add WiFi.

If Apple adds a batter with slightly larger capacity and enables turning off WiFi, people should easily be able to maintain current battery life with WiFi on once in a while. And if they never turned it on, there would be more battery life.

[whyrichard]

I thought of something interesting. The Wacom is quoted to have "patented cordless, battery-free tablet technology". Battery-free? How is that, I thought...

Now, Firewire can carry power, right? If 802.11g can carry a signal, is there any knowledge whether the new wireless firewire (there was an article about and I apologize I don't have the link...) can carry power? Wireless power?

Is that even possible?



wacom pen uses no batteries, insteat it relies on a magnetic coil to trasmit it's location to the usb powered pad.


wireless power??? the only way that i have heard that this is possible is by using light, or more specifically lasors, that focus on a dedicated "solar" panel that is tuned to the lasors light frequency and intensity and is therefore much more powerful then the usual run of the mill solar panel.

the military has made prototype drones that are powered using lasors.



r.

[kody@50caliber.]

Pardon me if this info has already been posted, but I didn't have time to read the entire thread.

Wacom has just dropped the price of the Clintiq 18SX by $1000. Certainly seems to be a hint that it's getting replaced shortly.

Source (http://www.wacom.com/index2.cfm?lang=en)

[SyndicateX]

Ok, multiple things here, and alot have already been said, but mainly just think about whyapple would shoose to release the airport extreme weeks before WWDC. Personally, I view this as a major new product, so to be released this early on legitimately shows that it is only a peice in Apples larger upcoming picture. We have read the rumors for months about an Apple wireless media hub, but to come out and be so small and useful...apple has done it again!!

2nd, Steve Jobs is happy about not releasing a PDA. Now why could that be? Looking at my current iPod, it has a contact list, music, calendar, and many other functions, so whats lacking? A touch screen. That single addition transforms the iPod from a simple mp3 player into a unbelievablly functional PDA. And did you see how small the Airport Wireless is? If the iPodutilized this OLED technology and the mini scrollwheel, it would offer much more space even in the current design. I dont think apple would introduce us to Airport Express only to end it at that with no remote, and considering the iPod is Apples digital music baby, I dont see any reason it would have been designed without the iPod in mind, besides the obvious lack of bluetooth.

3rd...I dont know where the concepts went, but they basically shoed an ipod sized PDA, that opened up to be a widescreen PDA that was twice as wide. Now, to my understanding, OLED technology can be folded over in just such a manner, so you could have a tablet that is actually just a little larger than an iPod in your pocket, but folded open would be PERFECT! :P

Just getting excited, but if there are this many rumors/products being released this early, and if the powermac G5 updates do come early (:() then either WWDC is going to suck, or they have a lot of new products that we have no clue about. And with all the suprises they have been announcing, I wonder of 970fx G5 laptops with OLED could be TOO far off.

:D

[spud]

I thought of something interesting. The Wacom is quoted to have "patented cordless, battery-free tablet technology". Battery-free? How is that, I thought...

Now, Firewire can carry power, right? If 802.11g can carry a signal, is there any knowledge whether the new wireless firewire (there was an article about and I apologize I don't have the link...) can carry power? Wireless power?

Is that even possible?
kinda. there are these "pads" out there that you can set your devices down on and they charge. as for power over wireless firewire, no way.
i highly recommend looking into Nikola Tesla. He had an entire wireless lab in turn-of-the-century US. crazycrazy stuff. check him out at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tesla_colorado_444px.jpg

[Rustus Maximus]

And I was wondering why Alias Sketchbook Pro (http://www.alias.com/eng/products-services/sketchbook_pro/index.shtml) was just released for Mac OS X. This software was originally made (and comes with) Tablet PC's. It was designed to be used without a keyboard...

Pardon me if this info has already been posted, but I didn't have time to read the entire thread.

Wacom has just dropped the price of the Clintiq 18SX by $1000. Certainly seems to be a hint that it's getting replaced shortly.

Source (http://www.wacom.com/index2.cfm?lang=en)

As I commented in another thread on the OS X Alias sketchbook release...That and the price drop are developments that seem to point to some sort of Apple device where you can write on screen (besides the obvious of buying a Cintiq). This would be especially welcomed by the huge numbers of artists out there who use Macs everyday and especially those who could never get used to the hand eye separation that occurs with regular tablets. It would be a large market for Apple and one they should definitely lock down before tablet PC’s (or their concept) make too many inroads. I doubt it would be OLED but if it offered 1024 levels of pressure sensitivity it would be on par with the Wacom Intuos 2 and as it would license their tech they wouldn’t get angry.

Plus, too, could also be maybe Apple is going to release some sort of pro painting/sketching app? I'm sure they could do it better than Painter ;)

[potterfast]

Samsung SDI, the Korean giant's display division, announced this week prototypes of a 17-inch active matrix organic light emitting diode (OLED) display. Set for launch next year, the display has a resolution of 1600x1200 pixels and a brightness of 400 lumens, and is the largest OLED matrix display to date, according to the company.

It will consume no more power than a 15-inch display and be a third of the thickness of existing liquid-crystal display models, the company said. The prototype will be shown at the 2004 Society for Information Display (SID) conference, which starts May 25 in Seattle.

http://news.com.com/Samsung+unveils+supersized+OLED+display/2110-1041_3-5217269.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=news

[ClimbingTheLog]

In response to a previous post, cintiq tablets are nothing short of incredible.

What I don't understand though is why Apple would want to make wacom mad by stepping in on their turf.

To heck with Wacom - ever since they decided to not support their ADB tablets on OSX because "OSX's ADB driver is too slow" I don't see them as anything other than money-grubbing. LOTS of people had to junk their perfectly good tablets and buy again, and that stings.

Kensington is awesome - they support my old ADB trackball, even through an ADB/USB adapter. I buy their stuff. Wacom unfortunately has a monopoly in this space, so we should welcome the competition.

Touchscreen and tablets and displays are approaching an inflection point. It's too bad that certain companies become obsolete as technology marches on, but to rue the day the buggy whip plant closed is never a good idea.

[ClimbingTheLog]

Steve said that their research shows people don't want to stream video. You put a DVD in a DVD player and play it. Walt pressed him and said, well you guys make iMovie and those videos are on a hard drive, and Steve responded that you can burn a DVD with a SuperDrive.

What about iPhoto? No one asked that question, but I doubt with today's release a video version is coming soon since it would piss off customers who are buying this month, plus, what would they call it? Airport Express AV?


Y'know, a clever hacker could take advantage of the ALS codec and the optical out to interpose a video device which could decode video encoded up to the maximum ALS data rate the AExpress supports. You'd just have to hook into the iTunes library on the client side and send a special video start header which the interposing hardware device would intercept. I'm sure it would be tough to multiplex it with iTunes without Apple's help so it'd be an either-or setup for any given time.

This is a public forum, so don't go filing a patent on that now.

[TednDi]

put your ipod down on the mousepad and it charges....


www.splashpower.com/prod1.html

[Damek]

put your ipod down on the mousepad and it charges....
www.splashpower.com/prod1.html

Who uses a mousepad anymore?

But seriously, that'd be kinda cool. It'd be neat to just have a clear spot on a shelf by the door or the bed or whever with one of these pads on it, and every night you just leave your phone and iPod and stuff on it. A small improvement over a separate proprietary dock or charger cable for each and every device. One cable instead of several, and they could all sit on the same pad.

[brap]

For business, this would be very convenient. PowerPoint on the go wirelessly.
Don't you mean Keynote?

:-)

[wHo_tHe]

Samsung SDI, the Korean giant's display division, announced this week prototypes of a 17-inch active matrix organic light emitting diode (OLED) display. Set for launch next year, the display has a resolution of 1600x1200 pixels and a brightness of 400 lumens, and is the largest OLED matrix display to date, according to the company.
This is interesting, particularly given Apple's connections with Samsung (displays) in the past.

And, if anyone's seen a working OLED, like on the Kodak EasyShare LS633 (review (http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/kodak/ls633-review/index.shtml)), you know just how stunning they can be. An OLED of 15 or 17 inches should be almost unspeakably beautiful.

But...

BASF wrote the following in a presentation (http://http://www.corporate.basf.com/basfcorp/img/innovationen/felder/mobilitaet/e/PI_MrBold.pdf) last October:

"The second challenge consists in the lifetime of the material combinations used for the colors red, green and blue. Values of more than 10,000 hours are already possible for red and green, but blue pixels show a marked reduction in luminescent intensity long before then and have a lifetime of only 2,000 hours. Long-term stability must be extended for OLEDs to be used in cell phones, PDAs or even laptops, and the rate of degradation should be approximately the same for all colors in order to prevent a color shift occurring in the display."

I wonder if these problems have been overcome, or if we'll all be complaining about dark, yellow displays in 18 months?

[rendezvouscp]

I thought of something interesting. The Wacom is quoted to have "patented cordless, battery-free tablet technology". Battery-free? How is that, I thought...

Now, Firewire can carry power, right? If 802.11g can carry a signal, is there any knowledge whether the new wireless firewire (there was an article about and I apologize I don't have the link...) can carry power? Wireless power?

Is that even possible?
I always assumed my Wacom was using magnets. Couldn't the tablet itself be designed to detect minute changes in the distance and angle of a magnetic object (or multiple magnetic objects, which facilitates the use of the multi-button scrollwheel mice)?

According to Wacom: (http://www.wacom.com/pressinfo/press_release.cfm?id=78)

Cintiq pens operate without batteries or connecting cords by taking advantage of an electro-magnetic signal sent from a sensor board under the LCD to the pen and returned for analysis. A grid of wires in the sensor board alternates between transmit and receive modes about every 20 microseconds. In transmit mode, the sensor board’s signal stimulates oscillation in a coil-and-capacitor resonant circuit in the pen. In receive mode, the energy of the resonant circuit oscillations in the pen is detected by the sensor board’s antenna grid and analyzed for position, pressure and other information.

Junebugs, Apple products, what more could anyone want? ;)
–Chase

[LaMerVipere]

http://thinksecret.com/news/newdisplays.html

^YAY! 30-inch Aluminum Displays are coming! (not that I could afford one, but still, new displays are great even so!)

:)

[child810]

I looked at the artist sketch at thinksecret. Looks like BS. How would a 30in screen not tip left and right with that tiny foot. Non-the-less bring on the new screens. NOW.

[TednDi]

In the Powermac G5 artist's rendering may be for the new 30" power supply?

[starcrossed]

From the look of this new display it looks like Apple wants to enter the TV market like Dell, but its a little unfortunate that this 30'' Monster would only be available for the PowerMac G5s. Still good news for me since I could now buy a 20'' at a cheaper price or better yet a 23'' at the cost of a 20'', cause I highly doubt Apple would increase the price of already high priced displays. Also I like the idea of being able to save money on that damn ADC-DVI adapter for my Powerbook!! :D At first it seem a little ugly but I remember back when ThinkSecret broke the story of 3G iPods and I thought the artist rendering showed an ugly-looking iPod, but once released I thought they were actually much more beautiful than my 1G iPod, so we'll see in the coming days as I tend to keep an open ear to ThinkSecret.

[jim_az]

I'm a bit surprised nobody has mentioned this before, but I think the obvious expansion possibilities for the AP Express lies in it's USB host port. I simply won't believe they only intend to use it for printers.

What I expect to see is a new iPod cradle that connects to this USB port and has a good old IR receiver (or possibly bluetooth) and then the next-gen iPods should have the IR/bluetooth sender and would act as a remote.

Any other thoughts of what the USB port could be used for?

Az Jim

[cr2sh]

Any other thoughts of what the USB port could be used for?


Yeh. A printer. :confused:

You say, put IR (easily 20year old technology) into an iPod. What for? Bluetooth, maybe.. but still... why? 802.11g is there for a reason, use it. :confused:

[imgmkr]

Any other thoughts of what the USB port could be used for?
Az Jim

i'd love to see SoundStick being plugged to it and play music in my
living room... or a mic so that i can talk 2 my new iMac G5!!! ;)