PowerMac G5 Update?

[MacRumors]

ThinkSecret provides (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/g5refresh.html) some more details on PowerMac G5 Updates.

According to the rumor site, the new machines should arrive in dual 2.5GHz, 2GHz and 1.8GHz models as well as an entry level single processor 1.8GHz model. ATI 9600 XT and NVidia GeForce FX 5200 Ultra graphics cards are to be offered.

ThinkSecret had warned that the bumps could be pushed back later this week. Indeed, one MacRumors source has indicated that the update may have been pushed back one day at the last minute.

[idkew]

No 3.0 ghz Steve?

[adamfilip]

awe dammit..

this sucks..

[jesuscandle]

that's a pretty good high-end boost. But, oh!, are people going to be mad about only getting to 2.5.

Additional question - would the existence of a single 1.8 preclude the G5 imac? I mean, I think they'd put single G5's in imacs and dualies in Powers...

thoughts?

[markoibook]

Hmm

I hope the Dual 1.8 is the same price as the current single 1.6...

[deputy_doofy]

Ok, here comes the obligatory but all the rumor sites originally said 2.6GHz. That's right. Start whining that you now need that 100MHz.

[dizastor]

i want one!

[Grimace]

Wait a minute - why would those be considered updates?? WE ALREADY HAVE DUAL 2.0 AND 1.8GHZ POWERMACS.

2.2
2.4
2.6

That's what makes sense.

[J-Squire]

That seems like a REALLY weird update. As far as it looks, the processors stay exactly as we have already seen them, except for adding a way faster high end 2.5GHz. You would really think that after 12 months, the whole line would get a shuffle around. I thought 2GHz would be the low end, even a single, but to keep the 1.8 as the low end after 12 months is crazy. Although I don't doubt the sources, I would be suprised with this update.

[javabear90]

this kinda sucks :(

[zach]

Eh, it looks okay...

All except for the frikkin graphics cards. I don't want no slow Nvidia 5200 :X

[Grimace]

Okay - think about this: What if Apple INCREASED the choices of Powermacs?

2.6 Dual (or 2.5)
2.4 Single
2.2 Single
2.0 Dual
1.8 Dual
1.8 Single

I know it's not a concept they've done before, but maybe it would help clear out more of the old processors too.

[iGary]

Translation:

No one has any idea what is about (or not about) to be released.

[arn]

sorry guys...

I guess we'll see... :)

arn

[keysersoze]

Wait a minute - why would those be considered updates?? WE ALREADY HAVE DUAL 2.0 AND 1.8GHZ POWERMACS.


Yeah, what's up with that?!? So one new machine? And they already killed a single 1.8....and now they bring it back?!?

[Savage Henry]

It's still a 25% mhz hike from last year,so it's not that bad. Just below exceptionally high and foolishly fed expectations.

:(

[LaMerVipere]

I guess it's fine if all these models ship standard with the graphic cards listed, but obviously a BTO would be available. :)

If these were indeed the way the updates turn out i don't think it would spell well for something like an iMac G5 with say, single 1.8 & 2.0GHz options. :(

[SFNE Freak]

Wow, if this is true, its gonna be one horrible update.

[agentmouthwash]

If I were Apple, I would eliminate the 1.? GHZ from the
Powermac line. It just looks better.

Release a
2.0 Ghz
2.6 Ghz bare
2.6 Ghz fully loaded.

save the 1.6 and 1.8 for the G5 Imac.

Oh yeah and release a pro Mouse, or my "mouse" money will
continue to go to Microsoft (intellimouse optical).

[Abstract]

Those are the most ridiculous numbers I've ever seen for a yearly update. Rumour or not, they're ridiculous numbers for anybody to be throwing around.

So let me get this straight, after an entire year, Apple is still including an Nvidia 5200 in their systems? Why? Its a cheap video card that you can pick up for cheap in any computer store. The mouse probably costs more than the video card.

[mymemory]

I do not have the money any way and for what I need a dual G4 would do. There are a bunch of After Effects plugins not yet for OSX.

[klaus]

Yeah, what's up with that?!? So one new machine? And they already killed a single 1.8....and now they bring it back?!?


Well, that's an excellent point, and besides that, thinksecret also states the 'older' models (all 3 of them) will be sold with discounted prices..

but the processor speed is the same, graphics card also (I think), so what is going to be the difference between the 2 duals 1.8 & 2.0??????

I don't think apple will announce these models, it doesn't seem right, maybe after 5 months, but not 12 months!

only time will tell I guess

[nagromme]

Oh wait, they don't. Still... don't forget to blame Apple for IBM's low G5 yields and GHz.

And don't forget to suggest that IBM's challenges are permanent, will never go away, that IBM will never compete with Intel, and Apple needs to go x86 :)

Fun having lots of more-likely rumors this week, even if they only come a day ahead :)

[g30ffr3y]

i would think apple would let the airtunes airport express splash screen
last a little longer than one day...

i still wouldnt be suprised to just see the new powermacs at WWDC...

if the "update" did contain most of what we already have it would
be pretty disappointing from a company that prides itself on innovating
and suprising its loyal followers...

im not going to complain about the 3ghz promise... but i wont settle
either... its not that i even need that power... its just that ive mentally
decided that 3ghz is the magic number... anything else wouldnt be
exactly what i want so the wait continues...

maybe... since it doesnt seem like anyone really knows anything...

[Soire]

I think if these revised estimates prove to be true, we are all going to band together in an angry mob and storm Cupertino with torches and pitchforks.

Most of us want that Rev. B and have held our breaths for a whole year. 365 days of waiting and that's what we get? Say it isn't so! :(

[NusuniAdmin]

how is this that wierd, lets look at ibooks. Before 1 ghz was top of the line ibook, now its low end. Same goes for powerbook. But yes i have to agree it is kinda strange to have a middle comp become low end. 2.0 single, dual 2.2 and dual 2.5 (.6?) would make more sense.

[CmdrLaForge]

Okay - think about this: What if Apple INCREASED the choices of Powermacs?

2.6 Dual (or 2.5)
2.4 Single
2.2 Single
2.0 Dual
1.8 Dual
1.8 Single

I know it's not a concept they've done before, but maybe it would help clear out more of the old processors too.

In fact - I think thats something we will see. BTW the graphic cards are lame.

Here I hoped for more.

[broken_keyboard]

I will be surprised if they have a single processor model. You think they would have learned their lesson from the original line-up when no one wanted the single proc.

[Sabbath]

If these were indeed the way the updates turn out i don't think it would spell well for something like an iMac G5 with say, single 1.8 & 2.0GHz options. :(

Yeah looks like the imac will be 1.6 otherwise the 1.8 single PM will be cheaply priced, which I can't see happening when it seems a G5 case replacement is $500

I'm sure people will be upset about this but do many of us really need that much computing power we just expect it. On the downside it seems the dual 2's will not become as cheap as many were hoping however, which could be a deal breaker for some. I'm sure Apple wants to differentiate its products a bit more, so I don't think 2.2, 2.4 and 2.6 would be the best move on their part even if they had 2.6 chips. 1.8, 2.2 and 2.5 would seem about right to me but I'm sure they have a better idea of the market they face than any of us.

[klaus]

Yeah looks like the imac will be 1.6 otherwise the 1.8 single PM will be cheaply priced, which I can't see happening when it seems a G5 case replacement is $500

I'm sure people will be upset about this but do many of us really need that much computing power we just expect it. On the downside it seems the dual 2's will not become as cheap as many were hoping however, which could be a deal breaker for some. I'm sure Apple wants to differentiate its products a bit more, so I don't think 2.2, 2.4 and 2.6 would be the best move on their part even if they had 2.6 chips. 1.8, 2.2 and 2.5 would seem about right to me but I'm sure they have a better idea of the market they face than any of us.

It's not about the fact that we don't need that much power, but all models besides the top 2.5, is just not different from the ones a year ago..

but hey, personally I don't believe the lineup will be that modest, every update they have done so far has been good, ibooks, powerbooks, emacs, so why dissapoint with their pride? the powermac?

[invaLPsion]

Up to 2.5 or 2.6GHz is fine with me, but I'd like to see a more powerfull middle end. Going from 2.0 - 2.5 is just stupid.

[freddiecable]

hm...clearing out inventory of 1.8 and 2 ghz-cpu's are we!? ;)

apple sure knows how to milk the cow :D

[J-Squire]

how is this that wierd, lets look at ibooks. Before 1 ghz was top of the line ibook, now its low end. Same goes for powerbook. But yes i have to agree it is kinda strange to have a middle comp become low end. 2.0 single, dual 2.2 and dual 2.5 (.6?) would make more sense.

It is weird becuase, by your logic, the dual 2GHz should be the low end model (if we are to follow the trend of the iBooks and PowerBooks). But no, not even the Dual 1.8s are rumoured to be the low end, but a single 1.8!! It is very weird coz it's almost no movement from a year ago. dual 2.5GHz as a top is going to be a very nice improvement (even though I only recently gave up hope of a 3GHz), but the rest of the line will just be out of whack

[A Mac Gamer]

Why would Apple after 12 months still use the Nvidia 5200, that card should not be put in a POWERmac, especially after 12 months of having it in the low model.

I hope that Think Secret is wrong with these rumors.

[mingisback]

only a 500Mhz increase over 1 full year! SHEESH!!!!???!!!

no way i'm buyin yet... i didn't think they would hit the 3Ghz mark but, i was atleast hoping for a 2.8Ghz.

if this is true i'm very dissapointed.

don't even bother releasing a single 1.8Ghz. the bottom should be atlease 2.0Ghz.

c'mon!

[xy14]

Apple.GQ.NU (http://apple.gq.nu) says there is a price list for the 1.6, 1.8, 2, 2.2, 2.4, and 2.6 Ghz models. It also says they are all duals.

[tveric]

Why would Apple after 12 months still use the Nvidia 5200, that card should not be put in a POWERmac, especially after 12 months of having it in the low model.

I hope that Think Secret is wrong with these rumors.

What a crazy hope - after all, haven't ALL the G5 rumors in the past 6 months been completely true??? :eek:

[MacsRgr8]

What is this.. new iMac models ??? :(

[allroy]

Truth is time is money for people that use computers in a work enviornment and a tool. "Don't need that much power," That's about the lamest thing I've ever heard.

Would I be happy with a 2.5/6 G5, hell yeah, fastest Mac yet. Would I be dissappointed with the 3 GHZ not being unveiled, you bet! The reason is not based on purely speed, however on the stage of WWDC one year ago Steve said in 12 months you'll have 3GZ G5's, now for Steve to say something as bold as that, he had to have a very good reason, he didn't say within 18 months, it was 12.

I really can't see Apple releasing any of these RUMORED updates before WWDC. Even if Steve says the 3.0 is shipping in August, that's fine, but there will be a mention of it.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Grimace]

Apple.GQ.NU (http://apple.gq.nu) says there is a price list for the 1.6, 1.8, 2, 2.2, 2.4, and 2.6 Ghz models. It also says they are all duals.

While that is a ray of hope, I think Apple will still keep a few singles around; maybe only in the 1.6/1.9 configs.

Seriously, I can't believe that ANYONE would take seriously a report that apple is going to do a product update - where only 1/3 of the line has a speed bump. that would be suicide.

Thinksecret can go back in its cave and check sources again.

[Sabbath]

It's not about the fact that we don't need that much power, but all models besides the top 2.5, is just not different from the ones a year ago..

but hey, personally I don't believe the lineup will be that modest, every update they have done so far has been good, ibooks, powerbooks, emacs, so why dissapoint with their pride? the powermac?

Sorry thats what I tried to imply by saying we expect better updates. All our preferences are based around a reference point and in this case most of our reference points for this update were 3GHz top end and maybe something around 2.3-2.5 bottom end a year ago. I think we've all had to let that slip down a bit but single1.8 to dual2.5 just doesn't seem enough to us.

[xtbfx]

I hope Apple offers all the old models:
Single 1.6
Single 1.8
Dual 1.8
Dual 2

Along with whatever the new configs are. That would give people a lot more choice, plus they could lower the price on the originals while putting the new Rev B models at the current price points (or maybe cutting a few hundred off the price).

I am a little dissapointed in those rumored specs, but once again, they are just rumors. Hopefully they will suprise us with a big speed bump and better graphic cards.

[pjkelnhofer]

So would a 2.5GHz have a FSB of 1250MHz?

I know this is not what we wanted, but I like the idea of Dual 1.8, 2.0 and 2.5 PowerMacs, and single proc 1.6 and 1.8 iMacs.
I wonder if this means that the price of the low end and high end will go up. Maybe $1999 for the Dual 1.8, $2499 for the Dual 2.0 and $3199 for the Dual 2.5. This goes well with the Rev. A 1.8's and 2.0's selling for $1800 and $2400 respectively.
Even though this would be a great PM lines a 25% increase in a year is not very impressive. So far IBM has not advanced the G5 very much. It is an amazing chip, but it needs to be able to move forward. Could this just be a stop gap until the next generation 97x is ready?

[brykken]

Thinksecret can go back in its cave and check sources again.

:D I don't know why, but that's really funny to me.

I really hope that those prices at applenews are accurate. If they are, I can expect a nice shiny 2.6 PM on my doorstep soon. Even if it's not, It'd be nice to get that price cut on the 2.0... Let's not forget, that it a GREAT machine!

[xy14]

While that is a ray of hope, I think Apple will still keep a few singles around; maybe only in the 1.6/1.9 configs.

Seriously, I can't believe that ANYONE would take seriously a report that apple is going to do a product update - where only 1/3 of the line has a speed bump. that would be suicide.

Thinksecret can go back in its cave and check sources again.

This web site that I mentioned earlier does have some pretty good prices. I only hope it's true.

[J-Squire]

I hope Apple offers all the old models:
Single 1.6
Single 1.8
Dual 1.8
Dual 2

Along with whatever the new configs are. That would give people a lot more choice, plus they could lower the price on the originals while putting the new Rev B models at the current price points (or maybe cutting a few hundred off the price).

I am a little dissapointed in those rumored specs, but once again, they are just rumors. Hopefully they will suprise us with a big speed bump and better graphic cards.

Yeah, great idea...give consumers some more choice. I really wish apple still sold the whole powerbook line. I'd love a brand new Powerbook G3 233! They could sell it for $150, I'm sure they'd make a fortune. That would make Apple much more popular amongst consumers.
?????

[eric67]

Thinksecret keeps postponing the release date of the future PMG5 revision...I mena if they do it everyday, one day it will be true :(
no just kidding...what a joke...really...here in Europe we have been looking at Apple store web site since 3 hours now on, and nothing special happened...I guess we will have to wait for the WWDC.
the last updated rumors from Thinksecret sounds really weird...I mean if Apple installs an GF5200 in a PMG5 even for the low-end model I am hoing to be really upset...at least 9600 and beyond; this is what should be in our PMG5...it is useless to have a powerfull computer if there is a crapy graphic card inside... :mad:

[BlueDjinn]

...Apple will continue to sell the current G5 models at a discount to clear existing inventory; the cut prices will reportedly be $1,599 for the 1.6GHz G5, $2,199 for the Dual-1.8GHz, and $2,499 for the Dual-2GHz model.

Hmmmm...ok, if this is true, the only pricing which would make sense would be something like:

Current SP 1.6 GHz: $1,599
New SP 1.8 GHz: $1,799

Current DP 1.8 GHz: $2,199
New DP 1.8 GHz: $2,299

Current DP 2.0 GHz: $2,499
New DP 2.0 GHz: $2,599

New DP 2.5 GHz: $3,199

Basically, if the specs & current-model pricing are correct, I presume that the new versions of the DP 1.8 and DP 2.0 models would be almost identical to the current ones, but with a faster Superdrive or better video card or whatever. In other words, all models except the new high-end would be just repackaged/repriced versions of the current ones.

The odd thing is the 500 MHz gap between the 2.0 and 2.5 GHz models...seems strange that they wouldn't have 2.2 and/or 2.4's in between there...?

[Frobozz]

ThinkSecret provides (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/g5refresh.html) some more details on PowerMac G5 Updates.

According to the rumor site, the new machines should arrive in dual 2.5GHz, 2GHz and 1.8GHz models as well as an entry level single processor 1.8GHz model. ATI 9600 XT and NVidia GeForce FX 5200 Ultra graphics cards are to be offered.

ThinkSecret had warned that the bumps could be pushed back later this week. Indeed, one MacRumors source has indicated that the update may have been pushed back one day at the last minute.

Sounds like a big 'ole cr*p fest to me. I hope this isn't true.

[AliensAreFuzzy]

I just have this feeling that we're going to see something completely unexpected come with the new Powermacs.
I might be wrong, but who knows?

[the future]

I don't care how accurate ThinkSecret may have been in the past, but these specs are not only crap, they also do not make any sense. That line-up would be totally confusing, and the gap between high and middle end would be way too big. If they can get 2.5/2.6 procs outta IBM, they sure as hell can get 2.2/2.3/2.4 procs for the middle end as well. Keep the faith, folks.

Edit: And I hope they know where they can shove those GPU specs...! (Apple or ThinkSecret, whoever's right/wrong)

[Hattig]

This sounds stupid.

If IBM can make 2.5GHz G5's, then they are making 2.4, 2.2, etc G5's as well that can't clock as high as 2.5 / 2.6GHz. In fact, the 2.5GHz would be limited numbers as it is the top binning processor.

Maybe IBM are making a lot of 1.8 and 2.0 capable processors still. Maybe Apple will have an extended range for once. Something like:

Dual 1.8 (low end)
Dual 2.0
Dual 2.2 (replaced dual 2 GHz in price range)
Dual 2.5 (ultra PowerMac)

2.5 is a strange number too. 1250MHz FSB? If Apple can't make a working 1300MHz FSB, then why not do 900 x 3 for a 2.7GHz machine? That's enough bandwidth for PC3200 RAM. Then you could have Dual 2.7, Dual 2.4, Dual 2.2 and Dual 2.0.

[pjkelnhofer]

I hope Apple offers all the old models:
Single 1.6
Single 1.8
Dual 1.8
Dual 2


I can't imagine that they would add the 1.6 and single 1.8 back to the lineup after having dropped them. Seems like a step backwards. I think we have seen the last of single processor PowerMacs.

[oingoboingo]

Yeah, great idea...give consumers some more choice. I really wish apple still sold the whole powerbook line. I'd love a brand new Powerbook G3 233! They could sell it for $150, I'm sure they'd make a fortune. That would make Apple much more popular amongst consumers.
?????

I have a PowerBook 5300c here with a dodgy AC adapter cable. You could have it for...$150. Are you interested? :)

[brykken]

...here in Europe we have been looking at Apple store web site since 3 hours now on, and nothing special happened...I guess we will have to wait for the WWDC.

I think some of you guys are jumping the gun. It's only 10:25 here on the east coast making it 7:25 over in CA. If we see something today it'll most likely be in a few more hours. ;)

[ifjake]

even a 1.6 G5 would do more than enough for me after being with a single 1.0 G4. i'm kinda dissapointed that Jobs encouraged the number game when he promised 3.0 Ghz. people seem to be hard to satisfy. who annoys me are the people who bought up the dual 2.0 the moment it was announced that are pouting now because they can't buy up a dual 3.0 merely a year later. give me your old G5, since you're so ready to get a new one.

[Gianrico]

VERY VERY VERY VERY BAD if the Appleinsider forecast will be confirmed by the fact. It is too small speed bump for the CPU ( Intel is going to release a 3.6 Ghz CPU) and a low level graphic card

[dongmin]

Most of us want that Rev. B and have held our breaths for a whole year. 365 days of waiting and that's what we get? Say it isn't so! :(Not exactly. The dual G5s didn't actually ship until mid-September if I remember correctly. So it's been less than 9 months. Yes, a long time, but not quite at the drama of 365 days.

Guys (and gals), take a deep breath. This is ONLY an interim update that was supposed to arrive three months ago but didn't due to bad chip yields. I'm still confident that Jobs will deliver on his promise. My optimism is based on the fact that if IBM is able to deliver in volume on the 970fx, then they should also deliver on the next generation 9xx, which I'm guessing to be the 90 nm 975.

[J-Squire]

I have a PowerBook 5300c here with a dodgy AC adapter cable. You could have it for...$150. Are you interested? :)

As appealing as a 117MHz machine that still uses a floppy disk sounds....I may have to pass.....I'll keep my Rev A 12" PB. You never know, Apple may re-release them with the next PowerBook updates.....just to provide some more choice

[stingerman]

Well whatever they release, they need to release an update. it's been 10 Months since they started shipping the G5, so it's time. 2.5/2.6 GHz would be awesome and better than expected for the 2nd generation. That would mean that we would get to 3GHz by the third generation. With yields regularly improving that would mean we could get the 3rd generation G5 in December/January timeframe. Intel will heave their 3.6GHz Prescott out in full production, but a dual 2.6 is a better processor combination than a HT Prescott at 3.6. If Apple surprises us with a dual 3GHz before December/January than that would be incredible.

I say surprise because you guys got to be crazy to think that IBM's yield problems did not cause an across the board delay of about 6 months. IBM mentioned their problems a couple of months ago and Apple confirmed that IBM was resolving them. Have you guys been living in a cave. Do you really think that a dual 2.6 GHz Mac is a disappointment? That means a FSB of 1.3GHz! Who would have ever though a year ago (June 8,2003) that we would be here now. To go from a dual G4 1.4GHz/200MHz FSB to dual 2.6GHz/1.3GHz FSB is amazing. At this rate we will be at 4GHz by next summer.

[rareflares]

don't no one forget the possibility of singles going into the G5 iMacs.

they could def. put the 1.6 and 1.8's in the updated iMacs at WWDC.


that would leave a 2.0, 2.2, 2.6 dual lineup for the Powermacs.



I think that's best we can expect from Apple at this point.

[Gianrico]

I think some of you guys are jumping the gun. It's only 10:25 here on the east coast making it 7:25 over in CA. If we see something today it'll most likely be in a few more hours. ;)

I think will not see any new powermac today, by the end it is possible

[thedogcow]

Rumor sites = load_of_crap

No one saw the AirTunes update.

[eric67]

I think some of you guys are jumping the gun. It's only 10:25 here on the east coast making it 7:25 over in CA. If we see something today it'll most likely be in a few more hours. ;)
in almost all Apple products update, the Apple tore is updated worldwide between 13-14h00 (europe time) making it 7-8h00 East coast time...that's it...now that was the rule before...

[rareflares]

AirTunes was only revealed at 12:00 EST yesterday.


or was that because there was a conference? either way, a monday update is still unusual.

[broken_keyboard]

Remember when the original G5s came out, people weren't expecting PCI-X until the "premature specification" graphic. I think they will surprise us again with PCI Express...

[brykken]

in almost all Apple products update, the Apple tore is updated worldwide between 13-14h00 (europe time) making it 7-8h00 East coast time...that's it...now that was the rule before...

I'm just saying that yesterdays AirTunes update didn't post until around 12:00EST. That leads me to believe they are going PST... we'll see either way. :)

[eric67]

don't no one forget the possibility of singles going into the G5 iMacs.

they could def. put the 1.6 and 1.8's in the updated iMacs at WWDC

that would leave a 2.0, 2.2, 2.6 dual lineup for the Powermacs.

I think that's best we can expect from Apple at this point.
this is what going to happen...next PMG5 are going to be all Dual, or there will be a serious problem/overlap when the future iMacG5...

[xy14]

I think it would be cool to see something like this:
(all duals)

1.8Ghz: $1799
2.2Ghz: $2199
2.6Ghz: $2499

:-)

[pjkelnhofer]

only a 500Mhz increase over 1 full year! SHEESH!!!!???!!!

no way i'm buyin yet... i didn't think they would hit the 3Ghz mark but, i was atleast hoping for a 2.8Ghz.

if this is true i'm very dissapointed.

don't even bother releasing a single 1.8Ghz. the bottom should be atlease 2.0Ghz.

c'mon!

Let's all catch our breath. It is only a rumor, we don't know that what ThinkSecret said is true. Maybe they missed a Dual 2.2 and the line is going to four PowerMacs.

For everyone that things there will be a huge lineup (single and dual, 1.6, 1.8, 2.0, 2.2, 2.5's). It will not happen. Apple has no interested in having to stock between six and ten different models (especially since they are still selling the PM G4). I think the lineup will increase by one at the most. Hasn't Apple tried to have a huge number of options and it didn't work out in the past.

[TWinbrook46636]

So according to ThinkSecret's revised article:

1.6 x1 Ghz -> 1.8 x1 Ghz [speed goes from 1.6 Ghz to 1.8 Ghz]
1.8 x2 Ghz -> 1.8 x2 Ghz [speed remains the same]
2.0 x2 Ghz -> 2.0 x2 Ghz [speed remains the same]
2.0 x2 Ghz -> 2.5 x2 Ghz [speed goes from 2.0 Ghz to 2.5 Ghz]

Does this make any sense? They also say Apple will sell the current 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 models at a discount along side the new PowerMacs. Uh-huh. That's not the least bit confusing.

[stingerman]

in almost all Apple products update, the Apple tore is updated worldwide between 13-14h00 (europe time) making it 7-8h00 East coast time...that's it...now that was the rule before...

Not yesterday. Apple has been changing their release schedule. And it is clear now that they are not going to wait on conferences to make major releases. Thank goodness. Release them when they are ready. Apple is learning a lot from their iPod experience.

[pjkelnhofer]

I'm just saying that yesterdays AirTunes update didn't post until around 12:00EST. That leads me to believe they are going PST... we'll see either way. :)

More importantly the ThinkSecret rumor that this thread is about says the updates are not going to happen today.

[displaced]

Would I be dissappointed with the 3 GHZ not being unveiled, you bet! The reason is not based on purely speed, however on the stage of WWDC one year ago Steve said in 12 months you'll have 3GZ G5's, now for Steve to say something as bold as that, he had to have a very good reason, he didn't say within 18 months, it was 12.

Since IBM produce the CPU, I'd imagine that IBM had told Apple and SJ that they were on course for 3GHz within a year.

Unfortunately, a lot can happen to get in the way. You can plan and design all you want -- but you don't have any guarantees until you implement and test.

Getting a MHz boost on a CPU isn't simply a case of tacking on some go-faster stripes and adding a rear spoiler. IBM developed an entire new process for manufacturing CPU cores capable of higher speeds. They shrunk the feature size by 40nm. Totally and utterly understandably, they ran into trouble making this bleeding-edge technology scale to production levels. Please please don't underestimate the amount of science and technical expertise it takes to make these advances.

In good faith, IBM told Apple they planned to have a 3GHz G5 by a year after the original G5. They're executing this plan at the moment. From the looks of things it's behind schedule by.... weeks? a few months, tops? Seriously, is this such a disaster? Are we really going to throw our toys out of the pram over this? Do we think IBM and Apple have been kicking back twiddling their thumbs - "Hey, Jim -- You got that crate-load of 3GHz 97x's done? ... Nah, I'm heading out for a beer instead. Screw Mac users, I'm thirsty"

Relaaax. They're trying to build computers here, not tonka toys.

[Laslo Panaflex]

who annoys me are the people who bought up the dual 2.0 the moment it was announced that are pouting now because they can't buy up a dual 3.0 merely a year later. give me your old G5, since you're so ready to get a new one.

I have a dual 2gig, ordered it the day it was announced, and I am definately not going to upgrade anytime soon. It is way fast, and I think that the people that are waiting for dual 3 and complaining are being snobs. Nobody is forcing you to wait for a dual 3gig, and just becuase Steve said doesn't mean it is so. He did infact say we will be at 3ghz by this time next year, but he didn't say anything about them being in a powermac and for sale.

But to be fair, it has been a long wait for an update, and it seems like they could do better, but I am waiting untill the updates are announced to make my final decision.

In conclusion, any machine dual 1.8 and up is very nice and should be not be taken lightly, heck we could still be waiting for Motorola to bring up the G4 chip to 2ghz, if it weren't for IBM.

[TednDi]

If Apple did release such models BUT included as an option the QUAD at those speeds??? You could then add the 3rd and 4th processors later under the same case.

again just a thought...

T

[365]

If they are going to release new machines this week, then these specs make sense to me. Steve Jobs is never going to get on stage at WWDC and announce these 'upgrades' because people would heckle him off the stage.

[brykken]

More importantly the ThinkSecret rumor that this thread is about says the updates are not going to happen today.

A source said that the company's plans called for an announcement of the long-awaited G5 refresh on Tuesday, June 8, but stressed that announcement dates for speed bumps could easily be shifted to a later date in the week; other indicators suggested that may indeed be the case.

That doesn't look like a "not" to me. It's a "I'm not sure!" :p

[stingerman]

So according to ThinkSecret's revised article:

1.6 x1 Ghz -> 1.8 x1 Ghz [speed goes from 1.6 Ghz to 1.8 Ghz]
1.8 x2 Ghz -> 1.8 x2 Ghz [speed remains the same]
2.0 x2 Ghz -> 2.0 x2 Ghz [speed remains the same]
2.0 x2 Ghz -> 2.5 x2 Ghz [speed goes from 2.0 Ghz to 2.5 Ghz]

Does this make any sense? They also say Apple will sell the current 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 models at a discount along side the new PowerMacs. Uh-huh. That's not the least bit confusing.

It makes sense to me. It is their iPod approach. Update the high-end model and move the other models down a notch while eliminating the low end. This way three months from now we get another high-end and the 2.6 becomes the middle model, 2 becomes the bottom. Three months from then, we get another high-end update. I would definitely prefer this type of rollout schedule to the old one.

I think Apple is changing their release schedules to be more competitive, instead of allowing a line to go stale. So what they release in June should not be judged by the old release cycle since it may be followed by another high-end model in a few months that will then cycle through the lower tiers.

[amols]

This is about time now. AMD has already reached 2.6 Ghz with their 64FX-55. And 3Ghz seems impossible now. May be we'll have to wait a little longer...Jan-05 may be :( . We can't expect too much from Apple just because they give us too much.

[Iroganai]

I think Cupertino intentionally leaked to AppleInsider etc. a wrong info.
After hearing this stupid rumor, we'll be somewhat relieved by the
announcement of 2.0/2.4/2.6GHz PMs at WWDC :)

Without this rumor, we rumormongers get really mad
when Steve suddenly reveals he couldn't made 3GHz,
he only attained 2.6GHz...

[broken_keyboard]

I hope they fix the squeaky power supplies...

[rareflares]

well if the store doesn't go down with the next hour we can finally say for 100% that there will be no updates today.


typically the stores goes down about 30-45 minutes before the unveiling of the upgrades. And if we are for some reason waiting for 12:00 EST, that would be 11:30 EST about 45 minutes from now.


wow, this is getting ridiculous.... :confused:

[Veldek]

This lineup is horrible. Of course, they could only leave out the low model and just add a new high end model, but not after 1 year! I, and many others, wanted to buy the middle model. What’s it now? A dual 2GHz? That’s crap, because it was here one year ago and will still cost a whole lot of money. This lineup is nothing more than making the actual lineup cheaper. Adding the 2.5 GHz i just not enough in my opinion.

Okay, rant over. Sorry, all.

[el_aarono]

Ok, here comes the obligatory but all the rumor sites originally said 2.6GHz. That's right. Start whining that you now need that 100MHz.

Man, I'm getting tired of all these folks whining about other folks whining. Oops, I guess I'm getting tired of myself as well....:)

Deputy_doofy does have it right though- there isn't much difference between 2.5 and 2.6 ghz. But there is a significant difference between 2.5/6 and 3.0 ghz. :)

-A.

[pjkelnhofer]

Rumor sites = load_of_crap

No one saw the AirTunes update.First off, if you think Rumor sites are a "load_of_crap", why are you reading one? Secondly, if you read the thread about interactive displays (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/06/20040607193235.shtml) you would see some one did predict it.

This source predicted "new airport base stations" with Audio/Video outputs. The new base station was said to be about the size of an iPod and cost around $99.
Admittedly, it was not 100% correct, but that is usually how it goes (people were similarly close with the iPod mini just before MWSF).

I believe that ThinkSecret is the most consistently correct of the Apple rumor sites, so tend to believe that they are at least very close on this one. They may have the exact specifics wrong, but I would guess the lineup is going to be pretty close.

[Phinius]

Looks like IBM has been unable to eliminate the chip yield problems moving to a 90-nm process. If there is only one PowerMac model above 2GHz, then that would strongly suggest that the 2Ghz and under speeds are still the older 130-nm 970 chips. The continuing backorder on the Xserve reinforces that idea.

[dizastor]

suspense... killing me...

release the underwhelming powermacs already so everyone can complain about something that actually exists.

[CmdrLaForge]

So according to ThinkSecret's revised article:

1.6 x1 Ghz -> 1.8 x1 Ghz [speed goes from 1.6 Ghz to 1.8 Ghz]
1.8 x2 Ghz -> 1.8 x2 Ghz [speed remains the same]
2.0 x2 Ghz -> 2.0 x2 Ghz [speed remains the same]
2.0 x2 Ghz -> 2.5 x2 Ghz [speed goes from 2.0 Ghz to 2.5 Ghz]

Does this make any sense?

For me the huge gap between 2.0 and 2.5 doesn't make ANY sense. As well as the crapy NVidia GeForce FX 5200 graphics card that doesn't make any sense to me. It simply doesn't fit to a PowerMac.

[dho]

Would it make any sense for them to introduce lower end(2.5) lower priced powermacs tomorow and then add faster(3.0) normal priced ones at wwdc?

Sure it hasnt been done before but really. By doing that they could convince people they wont make it to 3.0. Some people lingering would buy. The others who said they would only buy at 3ghz wait a few weeks and buy the normal priced powermacs.

I dont pretend to have an experience in this kinda thing, but it makes sense to me.

[vknid]

I for one was really hoping for a dual 2.2 GHz low end at the current price of $1799 ($1599 with education discount). Now that would be a SWEET machine for the money! A single 1.8 GHz just does not appeal to me, and it's been over four and a half years since my last upgrade.

[CmdrLaForge]

Looks like IBM has been unable to eliminate the chip yield problems moving to a 90-nm process. If there is only one PowerMac model above 2GHz, then that would strongly suggest that the 2Ghz and under speeds are still the older 130-nm 970 chips. The continuing backorder on the Xserve reinforces that idea.

And that makes sense. That could be the reason why they have that very very strange setup.

[eric67]

Not yesterday. Apple has been changing their release schedule. And it is clear now that they are not going to wait on conferences to make major releases. Thank goodness. Release them when they are ready. Apple is learning a lot from their iPod experience.
Because yesterday Steve was announcing the product during an interview...
this is marketing my friend

[rareflares]

Would it make any sense for them to introduce lower end(2.5) lower priced powermacs tomorow and then add faster(3.0) normal priced ones at wwdc?

Sure it hasnt been done before but really. By doing that they could convince people they wont make it to 3.0. Some people lingering would buy. The others who said they would only buy at 3ghz wait a few weeks and buy the normal priced powermacs.

I dont pretend to have an experience in this kinda thing, but it makes sense to me.






no, that's a retailer nightmare waiting to happen. first the resellers get tons of orders for 2.6 Ghz so they order such and such amount from Apple, then 3 weeks later 3.0 Ghz arrives, customers cancel their 2.6 orders for the 3.0's. Now the retailers have a surplus of 2.6's and a shortage of 3.0's.

It doesn't help anyone other than the .000000005% of the Mac world that pays attention to these idiotic rumors (3.0 Ghz or bust! :confused: )

[nagromme]

I won't speculate on the specifics--SOME new G5s seem imminent.

But what's with people demanding that a single CPU NOT even be an option? If you don't want a single, don't buy it, but a single will always be cheaper than a dual, so why not let the PowerMac have a lower entry point if some people want that? Price it fairly, but don't kill the option.

[rareflares]

I won't speculate on the specifics--SOME new G5s seem imminent.

But what's with people demanding that a single CPU NOT even be an option? If you don't want a single, don't buy it, but a single will always be cheaper than a dual, so why not let the PowerMac have a lower entry point if some people want that? Price it fairly, but don't kill the option.




i agree, but most people are saying all dual PM because they are expecting iMacs to go G5 at WWDC. and if they go G5, they would HAVE to be single processors.

so single G5 iMacs
dual G5 PM

IMO, that's a pretty good strategy.

[mchendricks]

I don’t think the rumors about using the nvidia 5200 are true. Why would Apple create Motion, then release a PRO machine that couldn’t run it? There has to be AT least a 9600 to use Motion. Apple is making solutions for video pros, not problems.

[ffakr]

Looks like IBM has been unable to eliminate the chip yield problems moving to a 90-nm process. If there is only one PowerMac model above 2GHz, then that would strongly suggest that the 2Ghz and under speeds are still the older 130-nm 970 chips. The continuing backorder on the Xserve reinforces that idea.

IBM announced about a month ago that they worked out the .09 micron process issues...
http://www.arnnet.com.au/index.php?id=116634298

The xServes are low volume computers. It is entirely possible that the demand for the xServe is high (I know a lot of people who were waiting for the xServe to go G5, like ME). A surge in demand for a system whose production line is designed with the expectation of low volumes can easily back up orders. In fact, my colleague did receive a shipment of 19 G5 xserves over a week ago. They are shipping.

[NightBird]

Why do i get this feeling that 1.6 and 1.8 are for g5 imac.... and a 2.5 maybe a 20 inch g5 imac. I was going to buy rev b power mac but if this rumors are true, I may wait again. :confused:

[titaniumducky]

Oh wait, they don't. Still... don't forget to blame Apple for IBM's low G5 yields and GHz.

And don't forget to suggest that IBM's challenges are permanent, will never go away, that IBM will never compete with Intel, and Apple needs to go x86 :)

Fun having lots of more-likely rumors this week, even if they only come a day ahead :)

Umm...

Intel just publicly admitted to hitting a brickwall with processors. The only thing they can think of is to go backwards and then see if they can progress forward better this time (killing off P4 as far as development goes).

[alexf]

I for one was really hoping for a dual 2.2 GHz low end at the current price of $1799 ($1599 with education discount). Now that would be a SWEET machine for the money! A single 1.8 GHz just does not appeal to me, and it's been over four and a half years since my last upgrade.

If the ThinkSecret rumor is correct and Apple will sell the current single 1.6 GHz machines at $1599, then trust me, a new dual 2.2 GHz machine will be a lot more than $1799...

[klaus]

I don’t think the rumors about using the nvidia 5200 are true. Why would Apple create Motion, then release a PRO machine that couldn’t run it? There has to be AT least a 9600 to use Motion. Apple is making solutions for video pros, not problems.

that's true :

Recommended system
Dual 2GHz Power Mac G5
2GB of RAM or more
Mac OS X v10.3.3 or later
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro graphics card or better

This is from the apple.com motion page

[Bhennies]

absolutely disgusting if this is true. How lame. At this point, just give us new displays.

[Abu Reno]

To Dear Friend Laslo Panaflex

Listen buddy, If I knew it was going to take nearly 1 YEAR to go from 2.0 to 2.6 I would of purchased my G5 when they came out. What I do own is a Dual 1.42. Now, you should be the one to encourage apple to release FASTER COMPUTERS RATHER THEN SITTING THERE CRYING ABOUT THE INVESTMENT YOU DON'T WANT TO LOSE ON YOUR G5 DUAL 2.0 WHEN YOU PURCHASED IT.

Yours Truly :)

NOW BRING OUT THE DUAL 3GIG

[pjkelnhofer]

I don’t think the rumors about using the nvidia 5200 are true. Why would Apple create Motion, then release a PRO machine that couldn’t run it? There has to be AT least a 9600 to use Motion. Apple is making solutions for video pros, not problems.

Motion works with the nVidia 5200
from the motion specs:One of the following graphics cards:
— NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra
— NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200
— ATI Mobility Radeon 9600
— ATI Radeon 9600 Pro
— ATI Radeon 9700 Pro
— ATI Mobility Radeon 9700
— ATI Radeon 9800 Pro

[segundo]

i would think apple would let the airtunes airport express splash screen last a little longer than one day...

I agree. I don't believe these rumors of updated PowerMac's this week.

[themacman]

the powermac is importent and all but what about the Ipod which needs to be upgraded because the competitors are makeing things better

[Zaty]

This whole thing is really strange, every rumour site providing different information, so what is going on? Could it be the certain pieces of (false?) information are leaked on purpose to keep us in the dark about what is really coming? Besides no one seemed to know anything about Airport Express, so Apple seems to have everything under controll. Secondly, I don't think Apple will introduce a CTO system à la Dell where you can choose which CPU, GPU, etc you want (or 5 or 6 different configs). So I think we'll see three configs as always.

[jocknerd]

Eh, it looks okay...

All except for the frikkin graphics cards. I don't want no slow Nvidia 5200 :X

Apple must have ordered a boatload of those cards for the G5's for last year and the delays meant they have a lot in stock so they are going to use them up in the new G5's until the supplies are exhausted.

Which sucks by the way.

[ingenious]

Translation:

No one has any idea what is about (or not about) to be released.


That's what I'm thinking..... :D

[iriejedi]

PLEASE NOTE: if you customize a G5 today thay are all 7-10 bus days (even stock is the same - that is odd)

BUT.. IF YOU ADD a 9800pro card the wait jumps to 5-7 weeks. NOW THAT IS REALLY ODD. Makes me believe the delay is due to geting the x800 card from ATI.... see glass half full - a much better way to live.

IJ


Apple must have ordered a boatload of those cards for the G5's for last year and the delays meant they have a lot in stock so they are going to use them up in the new G5's until the supplies are exhausted.

Which sucks by the way.

[TrenchMouth]

I can see where people are less than excited by these numbers but there are a few things that I think a lot of people are overlooking. These are CPU speeds we are talking about here, the one thing that Mac users have been claiming for years that don't matter, but now there is a huge uproar over the fact that there may only be a 500Mhz upgrade to the high end this summer. There are so many other factors that go in to the performance of this machine that its not even funny. If anythink I am more upset about the GPU offerings than anything else. I would like to see some new high end ATI stuff, and PCI Express. There could also be strides made in memory speed, or the number of spaces for hard drives to raise the pretty low limit of 500GB (low for a machine that can have 8GB of RAM)

How about 90nm CPUs and 1MB of LV2 cache or other hardware tweaks that we wouldn't even think about. My point is not to get bent out of shape because they sound less than amazing, wait till we see something. However, if the best you can get is still a 9600XT (i thought the 9800 was also availible) I will wait or get a better card myself whenever they are availible.

[kirk26]

Nvidia is one of the reasons I buy my macs. Still my favorite!
What a crazy hope - after all, haven't ALL the G5 rumors in the past 6 months been completely true??? :eek:

[Laslo Panaflex]

To Dear Friend Laslo Panaflex

Listen buddy, If I knew it was going to take nearly 1 YEAR to go from 2.0 to 2.6 I would of purchased my G5 when they came out. What I do own is a Dual 1.42. Now, you should be the one to encourage apple to release FASTER COMPUTERS RATHER THEN SITTING THERE CRYING ABOUT THE INVESTMENT YOU DON'T WANT TO LOSE ON YOUR G5 DUAL 2.0 WHEN YOU PURCHASED IT.

Yours Truly :)

NOW BRING OUT THE DUAL 3GIG

Let me clearify what I was trying to say. I am in no way discouraging apple from updating the powermacs, I would love them to be updated it would be good for apple and its costumers. I am merely trying to say that people need to relax when it comes to bashing Apple/Steve/IBM for lying or not trying to be able to get to 3ghz.

1. All information is still speculation and not truth
2. Steve and Apple are in no way legally required to release 3gig G5's

I know it sucks for those that waited for a year in hopes of getting a dual 3gig, but it's technology, and things happen.

As for me being worried about loosing my investment, nah, I have easily paid for the price of the G5 with all the extra money I have made due to increased performance and capabilities. I actually could buy a dual 3gig if they were released, but like I said, I am very happy with my dual 2gig, and will not be upgradig any time soon.

Abu Reno, you need to relax, it's just a computer, and if you really needed a new computer that badly, you would have bought a new G5 when they were released, and not waited a year, not matter what statements were said in regards to speed.

[coolfactor]

Apple's hardware teams have been working long and hard hours to get us the best that they can build with the supplies they have available to them.

Let's recognize the people behind the products.

[thedogcow]

That's what I'm thinking..... :D

We have a winner! Tell them what they won! No one knows anything.

[theSingleCell]

I'd like to see Apple return to that very profitable business model.

Ya know the one where the iMac was 799

PM's wew 1599 and up

Hell, the iMac these days costs as much as the PM's do, this is what killed the cube, products that compete with each other.

The eMac is 799, but lets face it, its ugly. Its the sterile PC version of the original iMac.

redesign the eMac or redesign the iMac and return it to its price point (799-999 or 1099) and slap a 1.6 g5 in it.

Make the PM's all 2x chips.

One thing that PC companies do is have a "lost leader", a machine that they don't really make any money on, and mac needs that bad. If the eMac could be sexed up a little and given a 1.6 g5 and sold for 799......Apple would begin converting those sitting on the fence, the eMac just doesn't seem like an Apple design.

[DWKlink]

I just have a hard time believing the validity of this ThinkSecret rumor. If the graphics cards and archeitecture are remaining unchanged in the 1.8 and 2.0 models, why would they release new ones. Why would the Rev As be discounted when they are the same machines as the new "Rev Bs." Even if they were going to 90nm - what's the point of a 90nm 2.0 that's exactly the same in every other fashion to a 130nm 2.0. It just doesn't make sense.

And another thing - notice how only the "top end" 2.5-2.6 gets a new graphics card. does that mean they're lowering the GPU of the 2.0 to a nvidia... no way.

[Mord]

Oh wait, they don't. Still... don't forget to blame Apple for IBM's low G5 yields and GHz.

And don't forget to suggest that IBM's challenges are permanent, will never go away, that IBM will never compete with Intel, and Apple needs to go x86 :)

Fun having lots of more-likely rumors this week, even if they only come a day ahead :)

the current dual 2.0GHz g5 holds it's own against the best and is still the fastest in some area's not that this is not a dissapointment a dual 2.5GHz g5 will kick any dual opteron's @ss into the stone age.

[Frobozz]

This whole thing is really strange, every rumour site providing different information, so what is going on? Could it be the certain pieces of (false?) information are leaked on purpose to keep us in the dark about what is really coming? Besides no one seemed to know anything about Airport Express, so Apple seems to have everything under controll. Secondly, I don't think Apple will introduce a CTO system à la Dell where you can choose which CPU, GPU, etc you want (or 5 or 6 different configs). So I think we'll see three configs as always.

I think you may be on to something. It was Think Secret that actually said their information in a previous (non-G5 related) post may have been, in part, a way to weed out snitches. If the information released matches a false release then they know it boils down to the people in the chain of command for the faked/modified release.

It could be that this is a way for Apple to find out who's leaking specs before they actually release something. Or, it could all be true.

I think MWSF will be tremendous no matter what is announced because it's clear there will be some great announcements: iMac, PowerMac, Tiger, etc. Also, has anyone noticed that Apple has only served a "cease" letter to Apple Insider for the pictures of the G5? The pictures are one thing... the SPECS are another. No "cease" letter for those.

I don't want to read too much into this (too late?) but I'm here to speculate. :-)

[virividox]

i do hope its up to 3!!!

[~Shard~]

Yikes, there are too many threads on this topic and they're geting out of hand! I can't keep up - this thread, the "PowerMacs June 8th" Page 2 thread, the "2.6 GHz PowerMacs Tomorrow" thread, the "Upcoming Releases" thread, the "Something Next Week" thread, the "New PowerMac Photos" thread - all essentially the same - man, how many times can people have the same discussions and arguments over and over? Ah, who am I kidding, I'm enjoying it... ;) :)

[Mord]

Nvidia is one of the reasons I buy my macs. Still my favorite!

why do you hold such a love for nvidia? they quite frankly suck on the mac side of things and currently on the pc side they are starting to aswel.

sorry for the double post but why do you like nvidia when the 5200 sucks and there fastest mac card is the geforce 4 ti which they do not even make anymore the radeon's are currently in the lead look at the cooling systems for the x800 and the 6800 then you can see how much better the ati card is because it still beats the nvidia in benchmarks

[DGFan]

Apple must have ordered a boatload of those cards for the G5's for last year and the delays meant they have a lot in stock so they are going to use them up in the new G5's until the supplies are exhausted.

Which sucks by the way.

Do you understand what a build-to-order (BTO) machine is?

Do you also understand that the headline price is very important?

[sigamy]

Guys,

Calm down. Someone is playing with you all by spreading this FUD. The updates will be good. Keep the faith.

Now who's doing this? Is Steve/Apple having fun at our expense or is ThinkSecret looking to drive web traffic up?

[itsa]

ThinkSecret provides (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/g5refresh.html) some more details on PowerMac G5 Updates.

According to the rumor site, the new machines should arrive in dual 2.5GHz, 2GHz and 1.8GHz models as well as an entry level single processor 1.8GHz model. ATI 9600 XT and NVidia GeForce FX 5200 Ultra graphics cards are to be offered.

ThinkSecret had warned that the bumps could be pushed back later this week. Indeed, one MacRumors source has indicated that the update may have been pushed back one day at the last minute.

This is great if we are talking Notebooks!

[alexf]

I've said this before but I'll say it again:

How anyone could be disappointed with a 2.6 GHz dual G5 is beyond me...

A dual 2.0 machine is far more power and speed than most people crying for the sacred 3.0 GHz promise to be fulfilled will ever need.

Again, the glass half full / half empty analogy...

[Mord]

I hope this is all a ploy to get us really amazed when stevo announces dual 3GHz g5's shiping now with the following configurations

dual 2.2GHz g5 1Gb ram ati x600 pro 128Mb

dual 2.6GHz g5 1Gb ram ati x800 pro 256Mb

dual 3GHz g5 2Gb ati x800 pro 256Mb

all pci express

and with an option to get the pci express firegl cards
imagine the response to that

alfter a month of delayed 2.5's then 2.4's then 2.2's

[ifjake]

I have a dual 2gig, ordered it the day it was announced, and I am definately not going to upgrade anytime soon. It is way fast, and I think that the people that are waiting for dual 3 and complaining are being snobs. Nobody is forcing you to wait for a dual 3gig, and just becuase Steve said doesn't mean it is so. He did infact say we will be at 3ghz by this time next year, but he didn't say anything about them being in a powermac and for sale.

But to be fair, it has been a long wait for an update, and it seems like they could do better, but I am waiting untill the updates are announced to make my final decision.

In conclusion, any machine dual 1.8 and up is very nice and should be not be taken lightly, heck we could still be waiting for Motorola to bring up the G4 chip to 2ghz, if it weren't for IBM.

yeah on second thought, i wouldn't be surprized if there was a group of people who made a point to wait until the second revision, or until this promised 3.0 to finally upgrade to the G5, which i view as smart, and they may have reason to complain just a little. they've been patient since then i assume they could wait a little more to at least find out the real truth.

on the rumors note, it would be cool of Apple to seed lackluster rumors to these rumor sites, as well as mysterious release dates that never come when you expect, just to liven things up. that would be clever. but i like these rumors. it gives a lot of people a healthy dose of realism. keep expecting the incredible and you will never be surprized and it will never seem as incredible.

[bar italia]

A dual 2.0 machine is far more power and speed than most people crying for the sacred 3.0 GHz promise to be fulfilled will ever need.


How could you possibly know this?

[sethypoo]

If I were whoever is in charge of release dates at Apple, I would not release a new Power Mac until WWDC. It just doesn't make any sense to do it any sooner!

[Veldek]

I've said this before but I'll say it again:

How anyone could be disappointed with a 2.6 GHz dual G5 is beyond me...

A dual 2.0 machine is far more power and speed than most people crying for the sacred 3.0 GHz promise to be fulfilled will ever need.

Again, the glass half full / half empty analogy...

Just because you don’t need the power doesn’t mean nobody needs it. There are a lot of people on this board for whom it makes a great difference.

[agreenster]

I've said this before but I'll say it again:

How anyone could be disappointed with a 2.6 GHz dual G5 is beyond me...

A dual 2.0 machine is far more power and speed than most people crying for the sacred 3.0 GHz promise to be fulfilled will ever need.

I've said this before but I'll say it again:

I cant animate my complex characters on a dual 2ghz G5. Too slow, too choppy. So Im using a 3 ghz Xeon.

Im waiting for a 3ghz G5 so I can switch back to Macs.

[alexf]

How could you possibly know this?

I know this because I assume that everyone clamoring for the 3.0 GHz machines is not a video editing professional or a professional who does a lot of rendering intensive tasks (although of course some are). Even for such a professional, for whom time is money, a dual 2.0 GHz is an amazing machine and should be sufficient; but for everyone else even a 2.0 GHz is overkill.

Let me ask you: have you ever used a dual 2.0 GHz G5?

[Duff-Man]

This IS HOMOSEXUAL. A friggin single 1.8 ghz as the low end = Faggage....major faggage (sorry if i offended anyone)Duff-Man says...smarten up...or grow up....or both....or better yet just take your crap elsewhere....oh yeah!

[itsa]

I know this because I assume that everyone clamoring for the 3.0 GHz machines is not a video editing professional or a professional who does a lot of rendering intensive tasks (although of course some are). Even for such a professional, for whom time is money, a dual 2.0 GHz is an amazing machine and should be sufficient; but for everyone else even a 2.0 GHz is overkill.

Let me ask you: have you ever used a dual 2.0 GHz G5?

Do you edit video? I render video that takes a overnight trip at least once per week. A 3giger would cut that down big time.. and save me a lot of money.

[Veldek]

Even for such a professional, for whom time is money, a dual 2.0 GHz is an amazing machine and should be sufficient;...

Ah, I see, because you say, this computer is sufficient for everyone, it really is. You must be joking...

Let me ask you: have you ever used a dual 2.0 GHz G5?

See agreensters post, please.

[alexf]

I've said this before but I'll say it again:

I cant animate my complex characters on a dual 2ghz G5. Too slow, too choppy. So Im using a 3 ghz Xeon.

Im waiting for a 3ghz G5 so I can switch back to Macs.

And you honestly believe that 400 MHz (i.e. the difference between a 2.6 GHz and 3.0 GHz machine) will make a very noticeable difference? I really believe that the difference in speed / performance with the 10.4 upgrade will be greater.

[paulypants]

I've said this before but I'll say it again:

I cant animate my complex characters on a dual 2ghz G5. Too slow, too choppy. So Im using a 3 ghz Xeon.

Im waiting for a 3ghz G5 so I can switch back to Macs.

because the 400mhz jump from a dual 2.6 to a dual 3.0 is
goin to make all the difference in the world.

[dopefiend]

And you honestly believe that 400 MHz (i.e. the difference between a 2.6 GHz and 3.0 GHz machine) will make a very noticeable difference? I really believe that the difference in speed / performance with the 10.4 upgrade will be greater.

When talking dual chips, thats 800mhz

Yes, that would be very noticeable!

[wdlove]

If all the speculation is true, we are just a couple of minutes away from being wowed. Steve aims to please!

[joeboy_45101]

Has anybody considered the idea that Apple might be releasing bogus info like this to try and locate leaks. It doesn't make any sense to me for the company to release these things now when in just a couple of weeks they are going to have all the publicity at WWDC.

[Veldek]

And you honestly believe that 400 MHz (i.e. the difference between a 2.6 GHz and 3.0 GHz machine) will make a very noticeable difference? I really believe that the difference in speed / performance with the 10.4 upgrade will be greater.

It's getting better and better. So all you PM DP 2 GHz owners, just install 10.4 as soon as it's available. It will give you at least as much power as a 2.2GHz one...

Honestly, if you really believe in this, you should definitely check your facts.

[gothamac]

12:02 EST
Guess It's not going to happen.
These rumor sites haven't been right all year. :confused:

[alexf]

Ah, I see, because you say, this computer is sufficient for everyone, it really is. You must be joking...



See agreensters post, please.

No, I did not say that a 2.0 GHz machine is sufficient for everyone, but that it probably should be. (Please reread my post)

However, if agreenster is having problems animating with it, that speaks for itself. I would then say that he is among the very small percentage of people clamoring for the 3.0 GHz that really needs one.

[The Red Wolf]

Until actual machines are released, don't complain. AppleInsider also said we would see new G5's today. I don't see them. Could they in fact be wrong? Also the WWDC is not over. As for Mr. Jobs claim of 3 GHz by next year (one month remains) IBM also said they could do it. If a 3 GHz machine isn't here. Blame IBMs manufacturing process, not Mr. Jobs.

[pjkelnhofer]

Also, has anyone noticed that Apple has only served a "cease" letter to Apple Insider for the pictures of the G5? The pictures are one thing... the SPECS are another. No "cease" letter for those.

The pictures were Apple's property and they have every right to tell some one they cannot publish them on the web without permission. You cannot tell someone they cannot speculate at the specifications of an upcoming product even if they get it 100% correct (if you could all the rumor sites would be shut down).

[Buck72]

I knew I should have waited. I just ordered a dualie 1.8 last week. It hasn't arrived yet though. I'm gonna cancel and wait to see what happens.

[looklost]

I thought they said 3ghz by next summer. Summer doesn't end until mid September. I wouldn't be suprised if they release new machines now and release 1 more in September with all the bells and whistles. Didn't they do this before? I'm waiting till the winter to buying my new G5. I've already waited this long. :p

[dietsoda]

Duff-Man says...smarten up...or grow up....or both....or better yet just take your crap elsewhere....oh yeah!

I'm glad someone said that, I was loosing faith.

[cmoney]

And you honestly believe that 400 MHz (i.e. the difference between a 2.6 GHz and 3.0 GHz machine) will make a very noticeable difference? I really believe that the difference in speed / performance with the 10.4 upgrade will be greater.

If 400 MHz didn't make a difference, then why bother making a Dual 2GHz machine when a perfectly fine Dual 1.8GHz machine is available?

[alexf]

It's getting better and better. So all you PM DP 2 GHz owners, just install 10.4 as soon as it's available. It will give you at least as much power as a 2.2GHz one...

Honestly, if you really believe in this, you should definitely check your facts.

OK, please give me the facts that I need to check and you apparently know.

[gop007]

How does this release affect the display promotion? It could be that the new G5 turned out to be ready soner than Apple anticipated and decided to release them before WWDC. Now the speed bumps could assist in further clearing out the existing displays and then after June 26 we will see the new displays.

If this rumor is true than Apple is in trouble. To release any update this late only confirms that the 3 GHZ system is delayed. Apple is simply boosting its profits with their stores and iPods. This will come back to haunt them unless they start selling more PoweMacs soon.

[crees!]

Until actual machines are released, don't complain. AppleInsider also said we would see new G5's today. I don't see them. Could they in fact be wrong? Also the WWDC is not over. As for Mr. Jobs claim of 3 GHz by next year (one month remains) IBM also said they could do it. If a 3 GHz machine isn't here. Blame IBMs manufacturing process, not Mr. Jobs.

Rumor sites also said it could be pushed back a day. Don't get your panties in a wad.

[Veldek]

No, I did not say that a 2.0 GHz machine is sufficient for everyone, but that it probably should be. (Please reread my post)

However, if agreenster is having problems animating with it, that speaks for itself. I would then say that he is among the very small percentage of people clamoring for the 3.0 GHz that really needs one.

So, when people want to buy a 3GHz model because they have the money, they mustn't, because 2 GHz should be enough?

[johnnyjibbs]

This doesn't sound right to me. As some others have said, they surely can't be releasing just one new model? And what's with the graphics cards?

I think they should keep a low-end single (of course more choice is better). This can be the "headless iMac" that everyone goes on about. The current 1.6 is way cheaper than the dual proc models which may be prohibitively expensive for many people who want a G5. However, I think the single proc model should be more aggressively priced.

The biggest problem is that Mac desktops are way too expensive for the main mass market (family PCs, etc). As nice as the iMac is, it's expensive for what you get. The eMac is the only option for many people.

[alexf]

If 400 MHz didn't make a difference, then why bother making a Dual 2GHz machine when a perfectly fine Dual 1.8GHz machine is available?

Of course it does make a difference, I just don't think it makes as much of a difference as most people suppose.

[pjkelnhofer]

A dual 2.0 machine is far more power and speed than most people crying for the sacred 3.0 GHz promise to be fulfilled will ever need.

First, since the Dual 2 GHz is the "recommended" system for Motion, Apple certainly thinks people will need plenty of more power.

Secondly, when you have to walk away from you computer for over an hour a couple times a day to render animations and movies, you start to realize that you always need more speed.

Personally, I think that taking the whole line to Dual's makes sense because then Apple can start to develope FCP, DVD SP, and Motion to take full advantage of a Dual system (when they do that you will see serious speed differences between Single and Duals).

[appleface]

Well, that's an excellent point, and besides that, thinksecret also states the 'older' models (all 3 of them) will be sold with discounted prices..

but the processor speed is the same, graphics card also (I think), so what is going to be the difference between the 2 duals 1.8 & 2.0??????

I don't think apple will announce these models, it doesn't seem right, maybe after 5 months, but not 12 months!

only time will tell I guess

maybe the new powermacs will run on new chips (90nm). maybe this was already said, i didn't read all the posts.

[alexf]

So, when people want to buy a 3GHz model because they have the money, they mustn't, because 2 GHz should be enough?

What anyone wants to do with their money is completely up to them. I'm not quite sure how you came to the conclusion that I am preaching to people not to spend their money.

I simply think that if they are not a video professional or someone performing a lot or rendering intensive tasks (such as agreenster) they may be wasting their money. This is all that I meant.

I also happen to believe that many people want a 3.0 GHz machine mainly for bragging rights. This is also completely OK if it makes them happy; however, in MY OPINION, this would be a waste of money.

[wdlove]

Rumor sites also said it could be pushed back a day. Don't get your panties in a wad.

I have been patient this long, so it's no problem. Apple will announce when they are ready. It seems that Tuesday releases are not locked in stone. Steve is trying to keep us on our toes in anticipation.

[TWinbrook46636]

It makes sense to me. It is their iPod approach. Update the high-end model and move the other models down a notch while eliminating the low end. This way three months from now we get another high-end and the 2.6 becomes the middle model, 2 becomes the bottom. Three months from then, we get another high-end update. I would definitely prefer this type of rollout schedule to the old one.

I think Apple is changing their release schedules to be more competitive, instead of allowing a line to go stale. So what they release in June should not be judged by the old release cycle since it may be followed by another high-end model in a few months that will then cycle through the lower tiers.

Except that it hasn't been 3 months, it has been 12 months. They have already stated they are only going to update the PowerMac line once, perhap twice a year at most.

[ratspg]

i dont think any new powermacs will be released under the 2ghz mark.... i also don't think we'll see them until next week , OR wwdc? but i didn't think today was realistic, releasing powermacs , and then new displays later? is a rip off for the consumer and just doesn't make sense. I think we will see powermac+displays next week, iMac G5 wwdc, and tiger. obviously. hopefully, kinda maybe, possibly, i hope so? haah, bye.

[windowsblowsass]

please let think secret be wrong for once i just daont want to hear the complaining it looks like it may get worse than theituneseurope/g5powerbook moaning

[QCassidy352]

so, um, one new model? Same graphics cards, same processors (except for the high end)? After a YEAR? I'm pessimist by nature, but even I can't believe it could be that bad. That doesn't even really qualify as an update. Although it would sure explain why the new powermacs are being released before Steve's keynote - because if he got on stage and announced those, he'd be booed off stage.

[Frobozz]

Well, I guess the good news is that if they release a 2.6 GHz machine soon, the next revision will probably be no less than 3.2 or 3.4 GHz. Keep in mind the diminishing return of MHz as a portion of the total speed.

If they want to increase in speed another 30%, which is pretty normal for Apple between revisions, then we need to increase by 780 MHz to get another 30% out of the CPU. Granted, the CPU is by no means the only performance factor. Here's a couple scenarios:

2.6GHz + 25% = 3.250 GHz (3.2?)
2.6GHz + 30% = 3.380 GHz (3.4?)
2.6GHz + 35% = 3.510 GHz (3.5?)

[leo]

Let me ask you: have you ever used a dual 2.0 GHz G5?

The mighty dual 2.0 GHz G5 can't even smoothly resize an Xcode window. *yawn*

[edit: BTW, no macho mac on earth is fast enough for Gaston (see below). :D]

[bar italia]

The mighty dual 2.0 GHz G5 can't even smoothly resize an Xcode window. *yawn*

Case closed!

[TWinbrook46636]

Apple's hardware teams have been working long and hard hours to get us the best that they can build with the supplies they have available to them.

Let's recognize the people behind the products.

Is that you Steve?

[Leoff]

I'm wondering if we're forgetting something...

I see a lot of posts complaining that the rumored lower-end updates are meaningless because we already have 2.0 and 1.8 Ghz systems. Now those might be valid arguments if the entire design was the same, but who knows what is actually coming out?

Isn't it possible that the updates might have a slightly newer processor design that will run smoother or cooler? Or a new case design that has worked out some bugs in the hardware or software?

If it's simply a similar processor upgrade and nothing more, then yes, Apple is simply doing this to pacify the masses who are waiting for the 3.0 speed. But if there are other differences in the case, processor, or such, then I say kudos to Apple. 2.5 is good enough for me!

[dopefiend]

2.5 is good enough for me!

You pay a premium for Apple for "good enough" ?

[Wonder Boy]

if this is true, and rev b sales turn out to be what i think they will be, apple deserves poor sales. they brought it on themselves. new 2 and 1.8 ghz? give me a break.

[dietsoda]

The mighty dual 2.0 GHz G5 can't even smoothly resize an Xcode window. *yawn*

Case closed!

While I don't argue that what you've said isn't true, I don't think the G5 can be to blame, there really isn't any debate, the PowerMac Dual 2ghz G5 is an insanely powerful machine, if there are speed problems then I hate to say it, but it has got to be the software. Either the OS or the App I don't know which and I won't claim to. I think Apple needs to focus on 'better' as a way to achieve 'faster', not the other way around.

[broken_keyboard]

The mighty dual 2.0 GHz G5 can't even smoothly resize an Xcode window. *yawn*


Mine can - very smooth. It must be going slow because the poor background compiler is choking on all the errors in your code.

[the_mole1314]

faster=better, no matter what. I doubt grandma will be getting a 2.6ghz G5 for email and word processing. Simply put, don't criticize other people's choices and don't say 'the 2ghz is fast enough for everyone'. Lets just wait till they release them and look at the SPEC charts for speed, shall we?

[applecrag]

it would be cool if there was no g5 update but boosted the g4 powermac to 2 ghz instead. :p

[Leoff]

You pay a premium for Apple for "good enough" ?

Yep, I guess I do.

I'd love to see 3.0 reached soon. I'd love to see 4.0, 6.0, whatever.0 reached eventually. But to me an update is an update. Chances are they (Apple? IBM?) are having troubles producing 3.0 chips and they are going to be delayed. Would you rather not hear anything from Apple for the rest of the year, or get some sort of upgrade that shows they're at least trying to make progress?

[bar italia]

Mine can - very smooth. It must be going slow because the poor background compiler is choking on all the errors in your code.

Meow!

This kitten's got claws!

[alexf]

Case closed!

OK, but I still strongly believe that most users Power users do not need more than a 2.0 GHz.

Also, everyone seems to be forgetting that the real advantage that the G5 has over its predecessors is not the increased processor speed, but other factors such as the much faster FSB, etc.

The top end rev. B model will sport many more improvements than just the processor speed. Thus a 2.6 GHz rev. B model would probably be significantly faster than a 2.6 GHz rev. A (if it existed and had all the same specs as the current 2.0 GHz machines).

[alexf]

While I don't argue that what you've said isn't true, I don't think the G5 can be to blame, there really isn't any debate, the PowerMac Dual 2ghz G5 is an insanely powerful machine, if there are speed problems then I hate to say it, but it has got to be the software. Either the OS or the App I don't know which and I won't claim to. I think Apple needs to focus on 'better' as a way to achieve 'faster', not the other way around.

Yes, I agree. Thank you.

[RustyM]

My stupid prediction:

Single 1.6-----256MB RAM---160GB HD---FX 5200---$1599
Dual 1.8-------512MB RAM---160GB HD---FX 5200---$1999
Dual 2.0----------1GB RAM---250GB HD----9600XT---$2499
Dual 2.6 (2.5?)---1GB RAM---250GB HD----9600XT---$2999

(Dual 2.6 also gets another bonus like included Airport or something)

ALL 8x SuperDrive
(ALL included AirPort Card? hehe, I wish)

Rusty

[Maxx Power]

We also really need hardware accelerated sound!
UT2004 runs dogslow (20-3d fps) on a 9600Pro video card with a G5 1.6 with sounds enabled, but on my PC, it runs much faster with hardware sound and a 8500AIW card.
I remember barefeats did an article on this and they concluded the same thing...

Either that or a dualie with 2 3ghz G5.5 procs running at sub-1 volt voltages and consuming less than 10 watts, that would be literally cool....

[job]

We also really need hardware accelerated sound!
UT2004 runs dogslow (20-3d fps) on a 9600Pro video card with a G5 1.6 with sounds enabled, but on my PC, it runs much faster with hardware sound and a 8500AIW card.
I remember barefeats did an article on this and they concluded the same thing...

Either that or a dualie with 2 3ghz G5.5 procs running at sub-1 volt voltages and consuming less than 10 watts, that would be literally cool....

M-Audio makes PCI audio cards for Macs. While I'm not sure if you could use it with UT2004, third party cards are available.

[Charko]

If this rumour is correct, then it's really bad news for me. I'm waiting for the next iMac, and a 1.8GHz entry PM means that they'll probably 'cripple' the next iMac again. Apple have to learn the lessons. The 'consumer' Mac has to get much faster and cheaper. It can be more expensive than your average PC and it can be a bit slower but in Europe an iMac is twice the price of a PC and half as fast.
That's not the recipe to win switchers.
I do hope this rumour is wrong.
I'll update again, but then I'm one of the converted.

[tibor]

OK, but I still strongly believe that most users Power users do not need more than a 2.0 GHz.

Maybe not today. But unless you're planning to buy a new machine every time a new revision comes out, you may well need that power in two, three, or four years. It's about thinking ahead, not what you're going to need today.

I'm not going to buy a new power mac when they're announced because I need that much juice right now. Rather, I'm buying it because that much power and expandability should last me for years. I'm still running a beige frankenmac that I've had for 7 years, and it's just now getting to the point where it's not really usable.

-d

[RustyM]

Yes, they do make that 7.1 card or something but it makes no performance difference. Also, I don't know if this is what you we're talking about or not, but there was a bug in the demo version of ut2004 that made it run very slow on single g4/g5 macs, the retail version fixed this.

Rusty

[job]

That's not the recipe to win switchers.
I do hope this rumour is wrong.
I'll update again, but then I'm one of the converted.

This is something I've always wondered. What if these slight product updates are not meant to gain marketshare, but are instead used to milk the hard core user base (i.e. us, as die hard Mac users.)

[mkwilson68]

I don't believe for a minute that this will be the lineup for rev B - it just makes no sense and will do nothing to address the slow sales of PM's. If it happpens, I'd be seriously concerned for the future of the PM line - people just have no compelling reason to upgrade, which is really bad news for Apple. Remember, a few PM's sold equals about 6 containers of iPods for Apple's bottom line - they need to get this line right and get some impetous behind it. This (rumoured) bump wouldn't do it.

[Multimedia]

I Guess The Only Way A PM Refresh Will Happen Is When We Least Expect It. Until yesterday, I was expecting it to happen at the WWDC. Then last night I got update fever with that Think Secret promise and now I am all anticipated out again. With less than 3 weeks to the Stevenote, seems like these updates could happen any day before or not until Steve tells us himself on the 28th. The video card rumor is very disheartening.

FYI, if ya gotta have one cheap right now, the store SAVE page has refurbished dual 1.8 GHz G5 for $1999 and dual 2 GHz G5 for $2399 right now.

[pjkelnhofer]

OK, but I still strongly believe that most users Power users do not need more than a 2.0 GHz.

Well what makes some one a "power user"?

It is important that the top of the line Mac are a fast as possible because the people who need the fastest computers in particular those who need to render huge files (I imagine that even on a Dual 2.0 GHz rendering out an HD movie is going to take some time) will be quick to switch to PC's even they discover they can get their work done in significantly less time.

At my work, the design department is often finding other things to do while After Effects animations are rendering on their duals. So while they may not need 3.0 GHz, they could certainly be more productive if they had them.

[Maxx Power]

M-Audio makes PCI audio cards for Macs. While I'm not sure if you could use it with UT2004, third party cards are available.

Nope, tried. It has the same problem, there is no drivers avaliable that takes advantage of the 24bit Envy VIA chip on that board. Basically you'll just be dealing with a different set of DAC's instead of the onboard. OpenAL doesn't have hardware acceleration.

[sblasl]

I think if these revised estimates prove to be true, we are all going to band together in an angry mob and storm Cupertino with torches and pitchforks.

Most of us want that Rev. B and have held our breaths for a whole year. 365 days of waiting and that's what we get? Say it isn't so! :(

The current shipping G5's are Rev. B's, excluding the speed bumps. There have been numerous changes made by Apple to the current G5's since the were originally released.

I really find all of this very amusing...

[Maxx Power]

Yes, they do make that 7.1 card or something but it makes no performance difference. Also, I don't know if this is what you we're talking about or not, but there was a bug in the demo version of ut2004 that made it run very slow on single g4/g5 macs, the retail version fixed this.

Rusty

Negative for the demo bug thing. Retail version runs dog slow.

[keysersoze]

Anyway, for what it's worth, I just got an email back from Nick dePlume who is the editor and publisher of ThinkSecret. Here's our correspondence:

Me:
"This makes no sense! Thinksecret says Apple will continue to sell the current G5 models at a discount to clear existing inventory (Dual 1.8 and 2.0's)... and yet they are going to introduce new Dual 1.8 and 2.0's? Is this right?"

Nick:
"Check back later in the day; that point should be clarified."

[Porchland]

i would think apple would let the airtunes airport express splash screen
last a little longer than one day...

i still wouldnt be suprised to just see the new powermacs at WWDC...



Exactly. Why release a new PowerMac and then release ANOTHER new PowerMac a few weeks from now. Treat the AirPort Express as a preview and relax. WWDC is soon.

[jocknerd]

Anyway, for what it's worth, I just got an email back from Nick dePlume who is the editor and publisher of ThinkSecret. Here's our correspondence:

Me:
"This makes no sense! Thinksecret says Apple will continue to sell the current G5 models at a discount to clear existing inventory (Dual 1.8 and 2.0's)... and yet they are going to introduce new Dual 1.8 and 2.0's? Is this right?"

Nick:
"Check back later in the day; that point should be clarified."

If the rumors are true, then there are no "new" PowerMacs. Only a speed bump. Same chip, not the new 970FX. I'm waiting for the Power5 based chip myself.

[dr.Zoidberg]

The current shipping G5's are Rev. B's, excluding the speed bumps. There have been numerous changes made by Apple to the current G5's since the were originally released.

I really find all of this very amusing...

All seriousness here, what changes have been made to the PowerMac's since their introduction?

Zoidberg wants updates!

[Multimedia]

If the rumors are true, then there are no "new" PowerMacs. Only a speed bump. Same chip, not the new 970FX. I'm waiting for the Power5 based chip myself.Pardon my ignorance, What Advantage Is The New 970FX Going To Give Us? What is a Power5 based chip? I've lost track of what different G5 chip numbers mean. Is that the 90 nm 2004 version of the 130 nm 2003 model or is it more? A short executive summary tutorial would be appreciated. Thanks.

I can't believe that after a year Steve isn't going to have more than a speed bump and 8x Superdrives to talk about in three weeks. Man that would not be much engineering progress.

[iriejedi]

Can anyone confirm the # of Watts on a G5's power supply? :confused:

If they put in a 250W to keep down heat.... the 9600XT card is the best card you CAN put in it. On a recent crusade to add a video card to a cheap PC (HP a520n) with a 250W supply (not upgradable) - all cards better then the 9600XT/9800 pro, require 300W (9800XT) or larger supplies the big guns (x800/ 6800) I think were 350W or 400W supplies...

I do not know much about how the PC and Mac use power - but if for some strange reason the G5 uses a 250W power supply....bummer...

[hundenapf]

Can anyone confirm the # of Watts on a G5's power supply?


G5 power supplise have 450W. look'n'buy (http://www.welovemacs.com/6612903.html)

Uh! And the big boys (dual) even have 600/650 watts... no wonder your mums gettin angry...hello electricity bills...
Big Block of power (http://www.welovemacs.com/6612904.html)

[iriejedi]

Awesome - thanks for the pick me up!


G5 power supplise have 450W. look'n'buy (http://www.welovemacs.com/6612903.html)

[ffakr]

G5 power supplise have 450W. look'n'buy (http://www.welovemacs.com/6612903.html)

I've seen numbers over 600 watts for the G5 powersupply, but I think those were just calculated by multiplying out the amperage & voltage listed for the machine. That wouldn't account for the inefficiency of the powersupply (typically good powersupplies are about 65% efficient).

450 W of power to the motherboard seems about rite.

[pjkelnhofer]

The current shipping G5's are Rev. B's, excluding the speed bumps. There have been numerous changes made by Apple to the current G5's since the were originally released.

I really find all of this very amusing...

And those would be...?

[iriejedi]

I've seen numbers over 600 watts for the G5 powersupply, but I think those were just calculated by multiplying out the amperage & voltage listed for the machine. That wouldn't account for the inefficiency of the powersupply (typically good powersupplies are about 65% efficient).

450 W of power to the motherboard seems about rite.


Well so much for a good reason to limit quality of vidoe card...Apple has no idea how to please its customers. TOL should be TOL. From video card to processor... all the best I say.

Well at lest once can lower card qality, save money and then upgrade to X800 on their own.

(TOL - top of line)

[dornball]

if this setup is true, dual 1.8, 2.0, & 2.5's, then it is dissappointing. it's nobody's fault, but it is dissappointing. its like the movie that has a lot of hype, and looks awesome in the trailer, and then when you see it, its ok.
its not that i'm dissappointed in general with apple, actually i thin they're done a wonderful job, coming back from near bankruptcy, in the late 90's.
but steve did promise 3Ghz, and it is dissappointing that, after an entire year of no updates, it wouldn't even be close (2.5Ghz).
2.5Ghz is fine...a dual 2.5 Ghz is an awesome machine in fact. i wish i could afford one right now. ist just that apple was doing such a great job of catching up (perception of everyone else) to intel, interms of speed. i know the dual 2.5Ghz would kick tyhe crap out of intel;'s best right now, but from the shareholder's point of view, and investors, and the layman in general, apple is behind.

my 2 cents....

-dornball

[punkinseattle]

dude thay promised a f**kin 3 gz, whatever i still want one.
Hey i still wanna no about that imac on that drug... whats its callled... oh ya... G5 :)

[paulypants]

Mine can - very smooth. It must be going slow because the poor background compiler is choking on all the errors in your code.


LOLOLOL :D

[rareflares]

....




maybe Apple is having trouble updating their site. Wasn't iTunes 4.6 supposed to be posted yesterday also?


wishful thinking, i know, but i couldn't resist :)

[hundenapf]

well, I'm just happy I checked out macrumors today and got wind of that rumor. so I was able to cancel my dual 1800 order I was scheduled to pickup that afternoon for 2500euros (2800$). Man, that would have been a bummer, wouldn't it?!

[ProfSBrown]

I have to admit, I'm a bit out of the loop, I'm far too busy solving simultaneous equations. At what time of day does Apple update their pages to reflect new items, in GMT? I need a new G5 ASAP, the numbers in my simultaneous equations are getting out of hand and 64-bits will do the trick!

[Acoustica]

What I'm wondering is, the current top GPU for the PowerMac is a BTO Radeon 9800 Pro, after 10 months, assuming the non-BTO is a 9600XT and the BTO is a 9800XT...that just seems...well unimpressive? What would be even remotely impressive would be an AIW 9800XT, but I still think upgrading from Pro to XT in 10 months isn't all that spectacular. I'm more excited about the AE and Tiger than I am about the PowerMacs, it should be the other way around. :(

[coolfactor]

dude thay promised a ***** 3 gz, whatever i still want one.
Hey i still wanna no about that imac on that drug... whats its callled... oh ya... G5 :)


Please tone it down, dude.

[ffakr]

I have to admit, I'm a bit out of the loop, I'm far too busy solving simultaneous equations. At what time of day does Apple update their pages to reflect new items, in GMT? I need a new G5 ASAP, the numbers in my simultaneous equations are getting out of hand and 64-bits will do the trick!

The AirTunes device was released, apparently, at noon Central Standard Time yesterday.
I think we won't get an announcement today. I believe Thinksecret said it slipped to tomorrow. I'd give it one more day than assume WWDC.

I did have a thought today.. It looks like Apple is stringing out a whole bunch of releases to build up for WWDC. Hardware yesterday, maybe the G5 tomorrow. It looks like iTunes Europe will be next Tuesday.
IF Apple is actually trying to do a sustained shock and awe of product releases for 3 full weeks, I'd expect we'll see an iMac bump.. maybe iTunes Canada.. maybe xGrid (currently at Preview 2).. new monitors?
how could they sustain 2-3 releases per week for another 2 1/2 weeks?

[ProfSBrown]

I did have a thought today.. It looks like Apple is stringing out a whole bunch of releases to build up for WWDC. Hardware yesterday, maybe the G5 tomorrow. It looks like iTunes Europe will be next Tuesday.
IF Apple is actually trying to do a sustained shock and awe of product releases for 3 full weeks, I'd expect we'll see an iMac bump.. maybe iTunes Canada.. maybe xGrid (currently at Preview 2).. new monitors?
how could they sustain 2-3 releases per week for another 2 1/2 weeks?

Not only that, but you end up thinking 'what the hell are they going to talk about at WWDC?'. They won't just regurgitate whats been released in the upcoming weeks surely, so they've obviuosly got some massive great, earth shattering, world-changing stuff to talk about :D

[Bradley W]

_

[locovaca]

For everyone saying that this isn't possible because of the 1250 MHz bus speed, I thought that the G5's bus speed wasn't going to scale beyond 1 GHz. If so, that would make the 2.5 more logical than a 2.6- you get 2.5 GHz from a 1 GHz bus and a 2.5 multiplier. And, come to think of it, you can get 2 GHz from a 2.5 multiplier and a 800 MHz bus...

[charlesc]

I think you may be on to something. It was Think Secret that actually said their information in a previous (non-G5 related) post may have been, in part, a way to weed out snitches. If the information released matches a false release then they know it boils down to the people in the chain of command for the faked/modified release.

It could be that this is a way for Apple to find out who's leaking specs before they actually release something. Or, it could all be true.


Exactly. Two to three different rumor sites all getting slightly different 'imminent upgrade info' on the same day. Sounds like Apple is using this comming update to try and flush out the rat's.

The article was on appleinsider, the 'retail store revenue to double in 2005'. "On a side note, reliable sources warned that Apple may have varied some of the figures presented at the meetings (on a store to store basis) in an effort to flush out media leaks from its Apple Retail employees.

[tortoise]

a dual 2.5GHz g5 will kick any dual opteron's @ss into the stone age.


*blinks* huh?

The fastest contemporaneous Opterons will be faster than the 2.5GHz G5 for most things, with the exception of DSP codes (which the PPC97x rocks at), unless IBM and Apple dramatically re-engineered the system between the 2.0GHz and the 2.5GHz version of the processors. And Opteron SMP scales much better than PPC SMP currently.

It isn't a competition. Apple's strength is its OS, which makes a superior workstation environment.

[InfoKill]

so....
I want my damn dual 1.8 g5 already. when are they dropping the price for this? when are they going to be available?
i never had enough money gor a 3ghz anyway so bring on the price drop!!
do i still have to wait for wwdc?

[relimw]

ThinkSecret provides (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/g5refresh.html) some more details on PowerMac G5 Updates.

According to the rumor site, the new machines should arrive in dual 2.5GHz, 2GHz and 1.8GHz models as well as an entry level single processor 1.8GHz model. ATI 9600 XT and NVidia GeForce FX 5200 Ultra graphics cards are to be offered.
.

Now that's not right, why in the world would they be sticking in GPU cards that are more than a year old? At the very least the ATI 9800 should be in the low end, and hopefully the newer x300 or x600 (dare I request the x800?) in the higher end models.

Also, no mention of mobo upgrades...if this is the best Apple can do, I guess I'll hold off another year or so to upgrade my aging system. Maybe by then G4 xserves will get cheap ;)

[alexf]

G5 power supplise have 450W. look'n'buy (http://www.welovemacs.com/6612903.html)

Uh! And the big boys (dual) even have 600/650 watts... no wonder your mums gettin angry...hello electricity bills...
Big Block of power (http://www.welovemacs.com/6612904.html)

No, the power supplies are actually different according to which G5 model you are talking about. I will send you a link with all the different model specs from the Apple site on request; I just have to find it again.

[3.1416]

Not only that, but you end up thinking 'what the hell are they going to talk about at WWDC?'

Tiger and the G5 iMac. A minor speed bump to the towers isn't worth mentioning.

[pgwalsh]

sorry guys...

I guess we'll see... :)

arnSomeone may have already said this...

You know something and you're not sharing. Bad Arn... :p

[alexf]

This rumor is most likely true, but at WWDC they will release another update with 3gh.

After WWDC:

2.6 gh
2.8 gh
3.0 gh

Just wait and see. If Apple does release an update now, do not buy it... wait till after WWDC.

NO WAY - Apple would not be crazy enough to release two updgrades to the same model within a few weeks of each other. What in the world would be the logic behind this? And what a disaster for retail, etc.!

[AidenShaw]

the numbers in my simultaneous equations are getting out of hand and 64-bits will do the trick!

These are still 32-bit OS X systems.... No change from today's OS X.

An Apple employee told me that the roadmap for 64-bit support will be announced at WWDC.

And yes, he said "roadmap" to be announced, and not "64-bit OS X" to be announced.

[3.1416]

Now that's not right, why in the world would they be sticking in GPU cards that are more than a year old? At the very least the ATI 9800 should be in the low end, and hopefully the newer x300 or x600 (dare I request the x800?) in the higher end models.

Exactly. I can believe the processor speeds; that's out of Apple's hands, and IBM's delays mean that 3GHz will be a few months late. But it would be inexcusable to keep the same GPUs. The GeForce 5200FX was a poor choice last year, and is terrible today. And the 9600 is at least two revisions out of date. Your suggestion makes sense, and I could even accept the 9600 in the low end, 9800 in the high end, with x3/600 as a BTO option.

[crowdaddy]

What will be will be. Some of the posts are getting a bit nasty, maybe we should all tone it down a bit and just sit back and enjoy the ride.

These sites are called rumor sites because they consist of rumors. Sure, they have their hay-days and are right a few times. You honnestly think the marketing department of Apple will even try to market products that compete with eachother? If anything they will use the revision as a chance to distance the product lines: eMac will be only low, iMac will be only medium, and Powermac will be only high. They will have all bases covered and the product lines all attract their appropriate target audiences.

[windowsblowsass]

NO WAY - Apple would not be crazy enough to release two updgrades to the same model within a few weeks of each other. What in the world would be the logic behind this? And what a disaster for retail, etc.!
well if apple doent take pre orders ttill after wwdc on theeese then it wouldnt mean anything just throw us off

[akac]

I hope they fix the squeaky power supplies...

Its fixed. Just got mine replaced on my Dual G5. Works great now. Rev E.

[rareflares]

This rumor is most likely true, but at WWDC they will release another update with 3gh.

After WWDC:

2.6 gh
2.8 gh
3.0 gh

Just wait and see. If Apple does release an update now, do not buy it... wait till after WWDC.


:confused: :confused: :confused:


First of all, a 1 Ghz jump is inconcievable to speculate at THIS point in time. And in addition, having it ALL DUAL? Sorry, i don't think so. Do i really have to remind you of the yield and fabrications problems IBM is going through?


right now it's:

1.6 single $1799
1.8 dual $2499
2.0 dual $2999

the best we're gonna get is

2.0 dual
2.2 dual
2.6 dual

at a higher price bracket

In other words, the update that should have happened in March/April is happening now, and the 3.0 Ghz that would have been announced now had all gone to plan will instead be announced in late Sept/early Oct. EARLIEST and ship months later.

Secondly, Apple most likely isn't going to differentiate their PM product line by just 200 Mhz as the processor speed increases (ESPECIALLY with an all-dual PM lineup).

If the unthinkable happens and the 3.0 GHz is announced at WWDC, then the PM line will be:

2.0 dual, 2.2 dual, 2.6 dual, and 3.0 dual but i HIGHLY doubt that will happen.

[job]

Is it possible that the upcoming updates were meant for the Macworld Expo in January when everyone expected them?

[rareflares]

Is it possible that the upcoming updates were meant for the Macworld Expo in January when everyone expected them?



well i didn't think there were gonna be PM upgrades at Macworld in January just because they sort of updated in November by adding the dual 1.8's rather than the singles.


I expected mid March to early April to be the real updates. But i do agree with you in the sense that these upcoming upgrades were meant to be for a few months ago had everything gone to plan.

[michaelal]

This rumor is most likely true, but at WWDC they will release another update with 3gh.

After WWDC:

2.6 gh
2.8 gh
3.0 gh

Just wait and see. If Apple does release an update now, do not buy it... wait till after WWDC.

-------------------------------------
I wish this were true, but Apple is not going to make two releases in a less than 1 month period and I really don't think they would have a line that ran from 1.8 to 3.0 ghz in such small increments.

But more importantly, if Apple does not release a 3.0 ghz machine as promised, then it makes me wonder how viable Apple can be in this market and whether they will ever come close to keeping up in performance. If Apple does not deliver a 3.0 ghz or better machine by WWDC then it might make sense to not buy at all until they and IBM can get there ***** together.
:cool:

[berkowit28]

Most of us want that Rev. B and have held our breaths for a whole year. 365 days of waiting and that's what we get? Say it isn't so! :(

It's not a whole year, not 365 days. The G5's didn't actually come out until the end of September - that's about 8 1/2 months. Perhaps more announcements will be made at WWDC for September 2004 or so.

[monkeyboyforeve]

How about a better mouse, another cd drive(or space for one), a total of three firewire 400 ports, a smaller size G5, ormake them a lot cheaper. Is this to much to ask? I've been waiting too long for improvements. The rumored improvements don't do justice for what is supposed to be a cutting edge machine.

[nuckinfutz]

If Apple does not deliver a 3.0 ghz or better machine by WWDC then it might make sense to not buy at all until they and IBM can get there ***** together.

Apple just may deliver that 3Ghz computer but those who are waiting should not expect the PMG5 3Ghz to be under $3500. That's just not going to happen. If your budet is $3000 or less a Dual 2.6Ghz is a high as you can hope to get. IBM very much has their shiza together and we're right where we need to be.

[nuckinfutz]

How about a better mouse, another cd drive(or space for one), a total of three firewire 400 ports, a smaller size G5, ormake them a lot cheaper. Is this to much to ask? I've been waiting too long for improvements. The rumored improvements don't do justice for what is supposed to be a cutting edge machine.

And what a two button mouse and multiple ports is cutting edge? Surely you jest.

[Palador]

It's not a whole year, not 365 days. The G5's didn't actually come out until the end of September - that's about 8 1/2 months. Perhaps more announcements will be made at WWDC for September 2004 or so.

LOL, I simply LOVE this revisionist history. Would you people stop apologizing for Apple? Lemme guess, your next post is going to be about how the Dual 2.0 G5 is 'good enough' and we don't really 'need' the speed increase.

Give it a rest people!

The dual 2.0GHz shipped in Aug of 2003. Large educational and business orders saw them before most consumers. Your average joe who didn't preorder couldnt get theirs until mid (not late) September. But plenty of schools, businesses, and people who were johnny on the spot with the pre-orders saw theirs in August. I know this for a fact, and there is an article on cnet.com about it too.

Not to mention that the first single processor G5s were shipping in late July. So everyone please stuff it with the 'it hasnt been 12 months yet crap. It's been 11, and we're getting damn close to 12 without an update in speed.

[MacsRgr8]

What if Apple (IBM) doesn't reach the "promised" 3.0 GHz mark by WWDC?
I'm pretty sure many questions will be asked.
Over here on these rumor boards we get plenty of time to discuss the matter, and be at peace with the (hopefully not) disappointment.

But other WWDC attendees will be shocked:
"eh... Steve.... 3 GHz...?"

Its bad marketing not being able to keep such a promise. He could've said something like "Hope to be at 3 GHz next year".

I wonder if the media will get at Steve for his remark.
You can also wait for the Apple-haters to start having fun... :rolleyes:

Time will tell.

[iGary]

Long time Apple fan - and believe me, I defend these guys to the death when it comes up in discussion.

However...

This has been a very dissapointing and "boring" year at Apple.

What can one say when MS Office is on Apple's homepage for two freaking weeks?

1. The Powerbook and iBook updates were lame. Minor speedbumps, minor video tweaks etc...G4 chips!! Fine in an iBook, but in a 3-4 grand laptop? Um, no thanks.

2. The G5 chip program is so "ala Motorola" it isn't even amusing anymore. Delayed X-Serves, delayed PowerMacs...delay, delay, delay.

As Apple takes longer and longer with these updates, AMD keeps chipping away piece by piece at their pro marketshare.

I cannot begin to tell you how many pro photographers I deal with are jumping ship and putting up with Winblows just so they can have the raw power they need.

Apple needs to hop on it and quick. I honestly don't care about the 3 GHz promise...nor do most consumers - but this really is a pro machine.

[tunanut]

Long time Apple fan - and believe me, I defend these guys to the death when it comes up in discussion.

However...

This has been a very dissapointing and "boring" year at Apple.

What can one say when MS Office is on Apple's homepage for two freaking weeks?...

I couldn't agree more. It's only exceeded by that stoopit Pepsi itubes splash screen which bored people to insanity for what seemed like months! And Poopsi Cola of all ironies! What ever happened to the rolling changes on site's graphics?

But, P.S. gary, this pro photog would rather lick a bear's ass than switch to winblowz.

[blakespot]

Exactly. I can believe the processor speeds; that's out of Apple's hands, and IBM's delays mean that 3GHz will be a few months late. But it would be inexcusable to keep the same GPUs. The GeForce 5200FX was a poor choice last year, and is terrible today. And the 9600 is at least two revisions out of date. Your suggestion makes sense, and I could even accept the 9600 in the low end, 9800 in the high end, with x3/600 as a BTO option.

Ahh, but note: Currently thet high end G5 has a "Radeon 9600 Pro" as it's standard card. But you can BTO up to a "Radeon 9800 Pro" currently. So the indication that Apple will supply the new G5's on the high end with a "Radeon 9600 XT" (which is somewhat faster than the 9600 Pro) would seem to leave open the likely situation that there is a faster BTO board available.

My hope is that it's an ATI X800 but that might be too good to be true. I am not sure if there is a faster ATI Radeon 9800 than the 9800 Pro that is the current top BTO card - maybe at least we'll get that.

I certainly am ready to lay down the $300 or so for BTOing up to the fastest card offered, whatever it may be.



blakespot

[crowdaddy]

Apple needs to keep on updating to keep pace with the rest. No one will ever be satisified with a processor until it provides something like instantaneous rendering or a fraction of the rendering times seen today. The novelty of owning an Apple will soon run out if they can't bring something new to the table. The inter-staff differentiation (Music execs., etc.) was a smart move and shows a promise to devote more time to personal computing by segregating the departments. AND, if YOU PEOPLE are worried about the updates, imagine the Apple folk, the credibility and future of the company is at stake if they can't deliever and they are the ones who will lose.

[Dont Hurt Me]

igary is right, AMD is chipping away and some of their stuff is pretty hot, put one of those bad boys in a Aurora and you got Muscle. I have had Macs for years but it seems like its allways the same, year after year. Apple crawls forward( Hardware side) and the Software division has to carry their weight. Software is the best, Hardware is allways 2nd fidel- way behind, will this ever change? Im starting to think not.

[alexf]

What will be will be. Some of the posts are getting a bit nasty, maybe we should all tone it down a bit and just sit back and enjoy the ride.

Good point.

Let's remind ourselves that this is all in good humor; let us all enjoy the ride... What fun it is to speculate and debate about a product that we are all passionate about!

While it's fun to debate - even heatedly - it is important to remember to not take anything personally or too seriously. We're not talking about life and death here, and for the most part this is all entertainment. :)

[Dont Hurt Me]

Ahh, but note: Currently thet high end G5 has a "Radeon 9600 Pro" as it's standard card. But you can BTO up to a "Radeon 9800 Pro" currently. So the indication that Apple will supply the new G5's on the high end with a "Radeon 9600 XT" (which is somewhat faster than the 9600 Pro) would seem to leave open the likely situation that there is a faster BTO board available.

My hope is that it's an ATI X800 but that might be too good to be true. I am not sure if there is a faster ATI Radeon 9800 than the 9800 Pro that is the current top BTO card - maybe at least we'll get that.

I certainly am ready to lay down the $300 or so for BTOing up to the fastest card offered, whatever it may be.



blakespotJust have to point out Alienware has 9600xt in base machine for under $1600, how much is the top Powermac now?

[joeboy_45101]

I personally believe that something unbelievable is about to happen ;)

Let's be realistic, it doesn't make much sense to update the PowerMac line now! Unless something huge is about to go down at WWDC. It's been a boring 6 months for the Mac community, something has got to happen. I guarantee all of you that if PowerMac updates come before the WWDC, then on the morning of June 29th we're going to be talking about something else than the PowerMac line.

[iGary]

"But, P.S. gary, this pro photog would rather lick a bear's ass than switch to winblowz."

This one won't be switching either.

I'm having more and more problems keeping my colleagues from the dark side with 8-10 months between updates, though.

[job]

I'm having more and more problems keeping my colleagues from the dark side with 8-10 months between updates, though.

They need a new machine every 8-10 months? :confused: :eek:

[nuckinfutz]

"But, P.S. gary, this pro photog would rather lick a bear's ass than switch to winblowz."

This one won't be switching either.

I'm having more and more problems keeping my colleagues from the dark side with 8-10 months between updates, though.


What program are they using that requires so much power? Generally I see more fault in todays software than I do in todays hardware. The industry has stagnated because companies like Adobe, Digidesign and others have grown fat and slovenly and so has their products.

Apples problem right now isn't hardware...it's getting software that actually runs well from 3rd parties.