Think Apple will release another G4 powerbook before it brings on the G5?

[spaceballl]

I know everyone predicted that the last G4 powerbook revision would be the last. However, that was before IBM was up front with how difficult the transition to 90nm was. That was also before Apple said not to expect a G5 anytime soon. It's doubtful that apple will wait more than 6 months or so to update its PB line. What do you think the update in the fall / early winter will hold? G5s or G4s? Dual core G4s :eek:??
-Kevin

[aricher]

G4 with L2 enhanced - then G5.

[BrianKonarsMac]

i don't believe there will be a G5 powerbook in the next year...unless they decide to increase the thickness, weight, etc. and create a bulky monstrosity.

The next G4 may have an L3 cache on it, dual processors (highly doubtful), or they may not update the powerbooks for a year, until they create G5 powerbooks (they waited that long to "update" the G5 already). I'm quite happy with my Rev. C 12" Combo, it's not the best for Final Cut, Maya, etc. but if you're using that software, you're computer should cost more than the license to a program no?

[Florida Gator]

why doesnt apple get somebody to build them a laptop chip from the ground up instead of changing desktop and server chips?

[MacFan26]

I think we'll definitely see them in desktops before laptops. No one is going to want to have a thicker or bulkier laptop for the G5, but maybe that will have to happen.

[rendezvouscp]

I think that there will be a new G4 first before a PowerBook G5 is ready. Although it seems that Apple splurged on this rev. for it not to be the last (notice how the last rev is always really nice with lower prices?). But I think another G4 first.
–Chase

[crees!]

I think we'll definitely see them in desktops before laptops. No one is going to want to have a thicker or bulkier laptop for the G5, but maybe that will have to happen.

Where have you been for the past year?

[rendezvouscp]

Where have you been for the past year?

I'm guessing he meant an iMac like product, but I'm curious too.
–Chase

[MacFan26]

Where have you been for the past year?

:eek:
Oops, I failed to mention I meant in the other desktops besides 'the' G5. So, I think they'd be more likely to show up in the iMac/ maybe eMac prior to seeing them in the PowerBooks. Sorry for the confusion, I do know about the current G5's :)

[rendezvouscp]

:eek:
Oops, I failed to mention I meant in the other desktops besides 'the' G5. So, I think they'd be more likely to show up in the iMac/ maybe eMac prior to seeing them in the PowerBooks. Sorry for the confusion, I do know about the current G5's :)

YAY!
–Chase

[Soc7777777]

why doesnt apple get somebody to build them a laptop chip from the ground up instead of changing desktop and server chips?
Thank you, i couldnt agree more... this is the reason that the pentium m will have so much success over the g4 untill apple replaces the g4... the g4 is a solid chip with solid performance... but the pentium m screams and soars... it combines the power or a p4 chip with the battery life of a lower frequency p3...

Apple could, and should, dominate the portable market if they could build a mobile processor series... and by this i mean like there next processor shouldnt be a g3 g4 g5 g6 or g-anything... it should be completely different... like apple should have the g series processors for desktops... and like an m series for laptops or some other letter or system of naming...

personally i would like to see the future of their desktop and laptop processors to be researched by completely different people... and have little to do with each other... (besides the sharing of innovative technologys)... because lets face it... the approach in a desktop is different from the approach in a notebook... it took intel MANY LONG YEARS to figure this out... and its working for them... apple needs to realize that for once... they werent the great innovators and they need to accept intels approach...

the g4 is a great chip.. but its time is up... the g5 is even better... but the sacrafices it would take to get it in a notebook would diminish its power and advantages... by the time a DESKTOP chip gets in a notebook... it is already outdated by a notebook chip...

[Bigheadache]

Thank you, i couldnt agree more... this is the reason that the pentium m will have so much success over the g4 untill apple replaces the g4... the g4 is a solid chip with solid performance... but the pentium m screams and soars... it combines the power or a p4 chip with the battery life of a lower frequency p3...

Apple could, and should, dominate the portable market if they could build a mobile processor series... and by this i mean like there next processor shouldnt be a g3 g4 g5 g6 or g-anything... it should be completely different... like apple should have the g series processors for desktops... and like an m series for laptops or some other letter or system of naming...

personally i would like to see the future of their desktop and laptop processors to be researched by completely different people... and have little to do with each other... (besides the sharing of innovative technologys)... because lets face it... the approach in a desktop is different from the approach in a notebook... it took intel MANY LONG YEARS to figure this out... and its working for them... apple needs to realize that for once... they werent the great innovators and they need to accept intels approach...

the g4 is a great chip.. but its time is up... the g5 is even better... but the sacrafices it would take to get it in a notebook would diminish its power and advantages... by the time a DESKTOP chip gets in a notebook... it is already outdated by a notebook chip...

I understand your frustration, the new Dothans make the G4 prehistoric. However, Apple is not really in the chip making industry, and its not exactly a cheap industry to get into. Semiconductor fabs are notoriously expensive and require continual reinvestment with the latest process, SOI, 65nm, etc, etc. You never stop pouring money into a chip fab. Even if they went the NVidia/ATI route and just did chip design, and outsource manufacture to TSMC or UMC they are still starting from behind. Just look at relative startups like Transmeta and their struggles. Unfortunately its probably the more palatable business risk to align with a major player and hope for the best.

[Coolvirus007]

back to the original post, there probably will be another G4 pb revision because just look at the GIGANTic heat sinks the new G5 desktops have. It will take a while to figure out a way put that into a laptop.

The idea of a new processor just for the powerbooks is interesting. Maybe IBM is already doing that.

[bertagert]

I think you'll be seeing a G4 in there for the next 2-3 speed bumps. The new freescale chips are going to go above 2ghz so it wouldn't be out of the question to see 1.6ghz - 1.8ghz for the next round, 2.0 - 2.2 ghz the following round and who knows after that. That huge ass water-cooler on the 2.5ghz PM should be your clue that the G5 isn't going into the PowerBooks anytime soon. My vote is sometime late in 2005 or 2006 for G5's in da books. Hopefully these new Freescale chips will do the ram justice and get a decent FSB.

[Zaty]

My guess is we'll see at least one more G4 revision, probably in October. If everything goes wel,l PB G5s might be announced at WWDC 2005.

[Belly-laughs]

I think you'll be seeing a G4 in there for the next 2-3 speed bumps. The new freescale chips are going to go above 2ghz so it wouldn't be out of the question to see 1.6ghz - 1.8ghz for the next round, 2.0 - 2.2 ghz the following round and who knows after that. That huge ass water-cooler on the 2.5ghz PM should be your clue that the G5 isn't going into the PowerBooks anytime soon. My vote is sometime late in 2005 or 2006 for G5's in da books. Hopefully these new Freescale chips will do the ram justice and get a decent FSB.

Agree, the Freescale e600 seems to be the natural successor to the current G4. But knowing Moto... It may be a while still. They could easily market these as G5´s or G4 Extreme as they should blow the G4 as we know it out of the water with higher clock frequenzy and a FSB of 400. I´m not sure, but I think they will (may) be offered as both single and dual core. As the G5 seems to produce a lot of heat, I doubt we´ll ever see them in a laptop. After the e600 Freescale may have the e700 ready going 3GHz+.

I will upgrade my TiBook when it happens!

[Florida Gator]

They could easily market these as G5´s or G4 Extreme

market them as G5-M or M5 or something


After the e600 Freescale may have the e700 ready going 3GHz+.

yeah but the e600 wont be ready till mid-late 2005 probably... isnt the e700 64 bit?

[Squire]

Good thread.

I'm very interested in the way Apple's notebooks are headed. I'm in the market for one now (just need to save a little cash) but I can hold out for a little while- say, 'til Christmas at the latest.

My dilemma is a common one: buy now (or soon) or wait for the next big thing. My initial reaction is buy now. The wiser and more patient decision would be to wait. And judging by the "Buyer's Guide" section of MacRumors, we can expect another Powerbook upgrade in the fall. But what will it be? A 12" G4 1.5 GHz at the bottom end with newer chips- possibly Freescale's offerings- in the 15" and 17" models? For me, that would suck. I want the 12" model to keep pace with the others, within reason of course, because that's the model I'm most interested in. I just hope they don't shun it when/if they switch to another processor.

Squire

[keysersoze]

the g4 is a solid chip with solid performance...
the g4 is a great chip..


OY... look out, Don't Hurt Me's going to have words with you ;)

[Florida Gator]

but I can hold out for a little while- say, 'til Christmas at the latest.

why not jan? when many are predicting a new PB...

[Squire]

why not jan? when many are predicting a new PB...

Well, Florida Gator, because I'll be going to Florida then and I'd like a notebook for the 20-odd hours I'll be spending in transit. (Something to keep me and the kids busy.) Also, I'll need to do some work while kicking back in Panama City Beach. The 12" Powerbook is my weapon of choice.

Squire

[bertagert]

But what will it be? A 12" G4 1.5 GHz at the bottom end with newer chips- possibly Freescale's offerings- in the 15" and 17" models? For me, that would suck. I want the 12" model to keep pace with the others, within reason of course, because that's the model I'm most interested in.
First: Your avatar is pretty funny.

Second: I would bet that if the freescale chip makes it into PowerBook line, all PowerBooks would have the same chip (just at different clock speeds).

I'm still going to go with my Freescale 1.6-1.8 this fall. Let the wagers begin.

[LaMerVipere]

I don't know how Apple is ever going to fit the G5 into something the size of a laptop.

Everyone thought that the 90nm G5's would generate less heat and that would lead the way for G5 PowerBooks, but in fact the only PowerMac that uses the 90nm chips is the one that generates so much heat that even 8 fans couldn't cool it, it needes a massive liquid cooling device!

I agree with all those calling for an entirely different processor for the portable line, at this stage it just isn't possible anymore to put the processor apple is using in its desktops, into a laptop AND keep the small and elegant form factor. I'm no fan of the G4, but at least it transitioned well into the portable line :rolleyes:

[Belly-laughs]

I agree with all those calling for an entirely different processor for the portable line, at this stage it just isn't possible anymore to put the processor apple is using in its desktops, into a laptop AND keep the small and elegant form factor. I'm no fan of the G4, but at least it transitioned well into the portable line :rolleyes:

The transition has come to an end. Last year. I want, I want... I want (don´t necessarliy need) a PB with a 2GHz chip (e600, G5 portable, whatever fablerd heaveness), kick arse bus, lots of ram, lots of HD space, lots of, well everything. Still, I´ll probably want more when "more" apears. It´s just the way it is. Until "more than more" comes along I´ll tick along below the GHz and stay happy.

Now if someone could show me the way to the "drunk-when-posting" thread I´d be even happier..

[rendezvouscp]

Now if someone could show me the way to the "drunk-when-posting" thread I´d be even happier..

Just click on the link after the colon ;) : http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=6144&highlight=drunk+post.
–Chase

[Belly-laughs]

Just click on the link after the colon ;) : http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=6144&highlight=drunk+post.
–Chase

Thanks! I´ll save it for later, now I´m busy mending my head and body! :eek:

[Squire]

First: Your avatar is pretty funny.

Second: I would bet that if the freescale chip makes it into PowerBook line, all PowerBooks would have the same chip (just at different clock speeds).

I'm still going to go with my Freescale 1.6-1.8 this fall. Let the wagers begin.

Thanks for the 'tar comment. Doctor Q pointed it out in a thread and I grabbed it.

I really hope you're right about the "Freescale in Fall" prediction. I just hope, if it does happen, the first rev. isn't riddled with problems. By the way, are G4 chips and Freescale chips pin-compatible? Anyone know?

Squire

[RandomDeadHead]

By the way, are G4 chips and Freescale chips pin-compatible? Anyone know?
Squire


I have heard from one of my good friends that they will not be pin compatible, and that they will need a complete mobo redesign equivalent to the G4->G5 powermac redesign.

But he is a complete idiot so who knows. :D

[bertagert]

By the way, are G4 chips and Freescale chips pin-compatible? Anyone know?


Yes it is (for the E600 anyway. This is the chip that will scale beyond 2ghz). Here's the
Freescale (http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/overview.jsp?nodeId=02VS0l72156402) link. Scroll down to the E600 info and it will say The e600 core is instruction set and pin compatible with the G4 core used in the award-winning, high-performance MPC74xx family of PowerPC processors; however the e600 core is planned to scale beyond 2 GHz and to support Chip Multiprocessing (CMP). The second part of that is the interesting part. Hopefully it will come sooner than later.

I just want Apple's laptops to hang with the wintel's dothan chip offerings (which I must say is a pretty nice chip right now). Only time will tell. Rememeber that this whole freescale off-shoot from Moto is going through its paces right now. Who really knows what's going on over there. For all we know, the E600 & E700 processors could be a pipe dream. Lets cross fingers and toes that is not.

[JFreak]

G4 with L2 enhanced - then G5.

why not putting the L3 cache back? the cpu is starving and the L3 did wonderful job in virtually speeding up the fsb. i notice this starvation in using protools, which has strict real-time requirements.

the 667MHz (dvi) powerbook with L3 cache performed better than a 867MHz 12" revA powerbook without L3 cache - bus speed being the same 133MHz in both the computers. that's a fact: in protools use the L3 cache can bring a 33% performance boost, which is huge in my opinion.

i could live with another G4 powerbook revision if they reintroduced the L3 cache. without it i cannot justify upgrading this 1.25GHz powerbook which performs almost equally than the 1.5GHz version. the 20% cpu clock boost is not showing in the real-world performance without the L3 cache.

[Zaty]

I guess another question to be asked would be: Will Apple put the next generation G4 (e600) into the current form factor, therefore considering the next update just a speed bump or will they change the form factor with the next revision? If the answer turns out to be new form factor, we'll know for sure we won't see PB G5 for a long time. One thing seems to be clear, though: Neither the PPC 970 nor the 970FX will ever make it into a laptop. So as longs as IBM does not/cannot produce a PPC 97X that runs cool enough, the G4 (including e600) will survive as Apple's notebook CPU.

[JFreak]

the titanium form factor i believe saw four revisions - aluminum is currently on its third incarnation (or second in 15" model), so i would guess the next revision uses the "old" aluminum enclosure.

when they begin to sell G5 (or whatever post-G4) laptops they might change the case again. not before, hopefully.

[Florida Gator]

the titanium form factor i believe saw four revisions - aluminum is currently on its third incarnation (or second in 15" model), so i would guess the next revision uses the "old" aluminum enclosure.

when they begin to sell G5 (or whatever post-G4) laptops they might change the case again. not before, hopefully.


they like to drag things out dont they? The G4 has got to be just about running out of steam from a performance and marketing standpoint, doesnt it?

[rendezvouscp]

Now that I think about their scheduling for the TiBooks and now the AluBooks, I can totally see Apple come out with a PB G5 next MWSF. It's been the place where they change the PB line for two major events now.

"Oh, and just one more thing. Four years ago we brought the supercomputer into a laptop. Today, we bring the world's fastest laptop to you. Introducing the new PowerBook G5, complete with a 2GHz processor and all the features you see in today's PowerMac line."

Or something like that.
–Chase

[laserbeahm]

I think that we are a long way off from seeing G5 processors inside PowerBooks. However, you would probably be smart not buy the first generation of them. Who knows what kind of cooling issues and what not will be faced?

[wide]

Didn't Intel offer to make Apple a chip?

and screw the G5, e6(7)00 all the way!!

maybe motorola's new offerings will outperform the G5s, just like centrino kicked the pentium 4's ass.

i personally do not see why chip manufacturers are creating chips that are so damned hot that they require liquid cooling. sure, it sounds cool when you are looking at the alienware ALX or the G5 2.5 GHz, but why are companies producing hot chips like these? don't they realize that hot processors such as the G5 and prescott are basically at a dead end--eventually they will heat up to a point where liquid cooling won't do a thing.

i find it interesting that sony is the only company to escape these heat problems without liquid cooling but instead with a redesigned tower:

http://reviews.cnet.com/Sony_VAIO_R_series/4505-3118_7-30912984-2.html?tag=top

unfortunately, sony doesn't know the difference between a pentium mmx and a pentium m, so this computer is bound to suck like all of their other computers.

[mospeada]

Now that I think about their scheduling for the TiBooks and now the AluBooks, I can totally see Apple come out with a PB G5 next MWSF. It's been the place where they change the PB line for two major events now.

"Oh, and just one more thing. Four years ago we brought the supercomputer into a laptop. Today, we bring the world's fastest laptop to you. Introducing the new PowerBook G5, complete with a 2GHz processor and all the features you see in today's PowerMac line."

Or something like that.
–Chase

I can totally see that happening.

Even though I'm in the minority, I think the next Powebook will be powered by a G5. The 970FX chip is no hotter than an Intel Centrino chip, it's just hampered by production problems and Apple's quest for a more quieter computing experience. It would also be typical of Apple to say that a G5 PB would not arrive for awhile so that exisiting G4 PB sales don't stall.

[MacFan26]

However, you would probably be smart not buy the first generation of them. Who knows what kind of cooling issues and what not will be faced?

Do you really think they'd sell them if they hadn't tested them enough to know that there wouldn't be problems with cooling? Unless there's a sudden problem in quality control, I don't think we have to worry about that.

[Florida Gator]

The 970FX chip is no hotter than an Intel Centrino chip,



i thought that all the other components are hot though, its not as if they are scotch taping a g5 chip inside a metal case

[wide]

if apple plans on releasing a powerbook g5 by MWSF '05, then prototypes have certainly been constructed and are being thoroughly tested. i am going to order myself a powerbook the day of their release :)

[bousozoku]

I can totally see that happening.

Even though I'm in the minority, I think the next Powebook will be powered by a G5. The 970FX chip is no hotter than an Intel Centrino chip, it's just hampered by production problems and Apple's quest for a more quieter computing experience. It would also be typical of Apple to say that a G5 PB would not arrive for awhile so that exisiting G4 PB sales don't stall.

Apple wants to offer a G5 PowerBook but the only way they can do it is to offer it at 1.2 - 1.6 GHz. That's not really an improvement considering the cost of the configuring a chassis for ultimate heat removal.

I really hope that Freefall, ummm, Freescale can actually step up and offer the E600 promptly. They've got enough testing of enhanced G4s. They should be able to come up with something.