This is interesting.... :)

[digital1]

I found this article on Cnet. I thought it was pretty interesting. Some of the negative ways that it portrays Apple leaves some question, but it also shows M$ whiney attitude. Check it out:

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-943859.html?legacy=cnet&tag=lthd

[3rdpath]

i think m$ might be feeling a little heat from apple.

its not like m$ is that worried about market share but it can't feel that good to be known as the company with almost no innovation.

looks like the gloves are gonna comeoff and we're gonna see some fisticuffs.

wohoo, about time.

[digital1]

Yup I feel what you are saying. I mean what has M$ really innovated in? They're just mad "Little Apple" done growed up all now. LOL Its quite funny actually. ;)

[iGav]

It is indeed very interesting..........

The movements Apple has been making recently..... such as purchasing companies and stopping Windows support etc..... changing over default browsers, and having the iChat app connecting to the lesser of 2 evils is bound to rub people up the wrong way at Microsoft........

It's going to be very interesting to see how Microsoft fully respond to what Apple are doing....... rather than just announcing a few releases before a Apple EXPO...... to try and divert attention.......

Personally I feel that this could get very, very heavy......... and I'm not entirely sure who'll come out on top......

[digital1]

You make a good point iGav with that. Its going to be hard to see who's going to be on top. Also I do agree that those were very low moves by M$ to try to divert attention. Its very childish.

[iGav]

Originally posted by digital1
You make a good point iGav with that. Its going to be hard to see who's going to be on top. Also I do agree that those were very low moves by M$ to try to divert attention. Its very childish.

Well thank you I try to please.... :p

It seems that Apple certainly have MS rattled....... and at the moment it certainly appears to me that Apple are taking their own course at the moment..... what with their current Switch campaign, and the release of the iApps, and eMac......

As the article said....

"But Apple, when it comes to the real productive space---whether it's artists, architects or musicians--owns that market. Apple is going to continue to drive that down to typical day-to-day consumers."

They're certainly targetting the average consumer as well what with the Applestores and iApps.......... they're making real inroads here........ and they're still doing exceptionally well in education....

Interms of who will come out on top....... I don't think Apple will ever really rival MS in the corporate workspace on it's own..... but if we see more countries and govenments changing from MS products (as have been doing) then all this will help contribute to reduce the power that MS currently wield over any company that rubs them up the wrong way........

I personally feel that Apple are positioning themselves ready to take advantages of any shall we say misfortunes that may occur to MS over the coming few years.....

Just a thought....... ;)

[digital1]

Yup. We are starting to see governments especially get irritated at M$ over their stupid licensing rules. A lot of them are starting to swtich to other OS's, especially Linux. If they can tap into this "irritated" market than we can see a lot of growth for Apple. Considering the fact that OSX supports networking standards including Windows networking standards, I can forsee this as market for apple to gain growth. Aggrevated System admins and cheap IT managers. Even though the Xserve is still missing a few things, who knows what this or other Macworlds have in store for the Xserve. Overall the the TCO for Apple products are much lower than windows (unless there is something I overlooked please tell) Apple is making all the right moves I think in terms of that market. Its going to be interesting to see what other services they offer.

[King Cobra]

>Well thank you I try to please.... :p
Hey, iGavina! Stay away from the night clubs and money, as I'm sure you can find other ways to do so! :eek: :D :D :eek:

We have all seen the copycats of Apple's best products, from the TiPbG4 all the way to the iPod. Now m$ is copying off Apple's Expo. I can't imagine what the speech is like...

"Yes. I am Phill Plates and I would like to demonstrate some distant aditives to our peecees to the day before Apple takes over. I do say additives, because if we called these features, people would think that it's a positive thing.

Considering that there is an important Apple Expo, that will once again change the way in which computer users see Macs, I have decided to put on my diapers, suck on a passafier (sp) and eat out of a jar, just so I can get attention. I realize that I an acting childish, and I plan to continue screwing Apple's promos, products, and future plans, along with providing the peecee world some useless !!!! to help make the peecee crash faster and heavier, with an uglier modification in the case." :D :D :D :D

[digital1]

LOL good stuff Cobra :-D Didn't know you cared about a little macrumors.com user! LOL :rolleyes: :) But your input is appreciated.
But yeah M$ just needs to shut up for once. They seem to think they have the right to reign in on other company's events and try to take hold of it. They just need to fess up and realize they are no longer innovating, they're just rehashing stuff.
On the other hand, Apple is making huge strides in attracting corporate users which if they are going to make strides in gaining huge market, I think this will help. (This is where the irritated users,aggrevated Sys admins, and cheap IT managers come in) The switch ads are doing good in at least getting people to rethink Macs I think.

[iGav]

Originally posted by King Cobra
>Well thank you I try to please.... :p
Hey, iGavina! Stay away from the night clubs and money, as I'm sure you can find other ways to do so! :eek: :D :D :eek:


Naughty......... :p :p :p

[iGav]

Originally posted by digital1
Yup. We are starting to see governments especially get irritated at M$ over their stupid licensing rules. A lot of them are starting to swtich to other OS's, especially Linux. If they can tap into this "irritated" market than we can see a lot of growth for Apple. Considering the fact that OSX supports networking standards including Windows networking standards, I can forsee this as market for apple to gain growth. Aggrevated System admins and cheap IT managers. Even though the Xserve is still missing a few things, who knows what this or other Macworlds have in store for the Xserve. Overall the the TCO for Apple products are much lower than windows (unless there is something I overlooked please tell) Apple is making all the right moves I think in terms of that market. Its going to be interesting to see what other services they offer.

Even if Apple don't necessarily make giant inroads if governments and corporations do switch from MS...... atleast the whole industry will become more competitive, openminded and hopefully that people become less blindfolded and do actually see that there're viable alternatives to the crap that MS peddles in the name of software, innovation and so called superior products........

At the moment Apple are being incredibly strategic....... seemingly making sure that if MS does decide to withdraw from the mac.... (personally I don't think this is about to happen... well atleast not right away) that in reality it won't necessarily hurt the mac make as much...... as to what it may have done a few years ago.......

The next few/several years are going to be very, very interesting........ more so if the U.S Government hardlines on MS........ :)

[Durandal7]

In addition to all these attacks on M$ theres also the Switch ad camapign. If you ask me those are a pretty straightforward attack on M$.

[Moxiemike]

Five dollars says Stevo threw a little fit in his office and has now officially stopped development of all and any iPod on windows stuff.

Don't expect to see it. No how, no way. Not now. :)

[digital1]

Making the industry more competitive and less Microsoft dependent is the key to having technology as a whole move forward. The whole concept of compatibility is no longer having the ability to have devices communicate and work with eachother efficiently and properly, today its more along the lines of does it work Microsoft(you fill in the space). The whole compatibility issue is yet another strong hold that M$ has. At least if apple can soften up microsoft with the strides they are making now, the overall playing field will be more fair and apple can compete in a more fair manner. I think also too that even if apple doesn't make huge inroads in government and/or business, the fact that they continue to innovate as it concerns regular consumers is something that is highly admiriable. Even in Apple's current state they continue to grab more attention than most PC companies. Can you imagine if Dell got so big they had DellWorld! AHHHHHHHHHHH thats scaring me :-D but yeah awesome comments there iGav ;)

[digital1]

Moxiemike
I wouldn't doubt that. LOL :D

[Moxiemike]

Originally posted by digital1
Moxiemike
I wouldn't doubt that. LOL :D

And it goes to show why Apple's secretive stance on product announcements makes so much sense.

this way. they can pull the plug on stuff whenever they want to, and not have to face a PR disaster. Imagine if they said "Oh yes, we're announcing a PC compatible iPOd on 7.17!!"

Then this bullocks. Oops. No way to turn back now. :) :)

But our boys keep it alll secret, and have the upper hand. :)

[digital1]

You bring another good point. We all know Steves compulsion for control and his madness for detail. The way that Apple keeps things under wraps assures steve control over things like M$ getting whiney, and they can pull out if they want to without looking crazy and making people mad. Good point Moxiemike.:p :) :D

[iGav]

Originally posted by Moxiemike
Five dollars says Stevo threw a little fit in his office and has now officially stopped development of all and any iPod on windows stuff.

Don't expect to see it. No how, no way. Not now. :)

Heh heh heh heh heh...... :p :p :p

I think he'll respond by making the default homepage on every mac in IE go straight to www.f**kmicrosoft.com....... ;) Add the obvious letters please..... ;)

[digital1]

LOL LOL that would turn some heads... ;)

[Moxiemike]

Originally posted by digital1
You bring another good point. We all know Steves compulsion for control and his madness for detail. The way that Apple keeps things under wraps assures steve control over things like M$ getting whiney, and they can pull out if they want to without looking crazy and making people mad. Good point Moxiemike.:p :) :D

Thanks. It's precisely this type of business-savvy that really makes me like apple. :)

So, what does anyone think of the 17inch imac rumor?? I don't buy it, personally..although it makes.

I think it'll be widescreeens if anything

[Moxiemike]

Originally posted by iGAV


Heh heh heh heh heh...... :p :p :p

I think he'll respond by making the default homepage on every mac in IE go straight to www.f**kmicrosoft.com....... ;) Add the obvious letters please..... ;)

wow. the best web site ever, aside from macrumors.com. :)

[digital1]

A wide screen iMac would be beautiful. It would bring tears to my eyes. But if anything, I think the 17 in. screen is more likely. If that doesn't happen I expect to see some kind of processor and/or GPU upgrade, but who knows.

[iGav]

Originally posted by digital1
Making the industry more competitive and less Microsoft dependent is the key to having technology as a whole move forward. The whole concept of compatibility is no longer having the ability to have devices communicate and work with eachother efficiently and properly, today its more along the lines of does it work Microsoft(you fill in the space). The whole compatibility issue is yet another strong hold that M$ has. At least if apple can soften up microsoft with the strides they are making now, the overall playing field will be more fair and apple can compete in a more fair manner. I think also too that even if apple doesn't make huge inroads in government and/or business, the fact that they continue to innovate as it concerns regular consumers is something that is highly admiriable. Even in Apple's current state they continue to grab more attention than most PC companies. Can you imagine if Dell got so big they had DellWorld! AHHHHHHHHHHH thats scaring me :-D but yeah awesome comments there iGav ;)

It's the only way I can envisage any real impact being made against MS is if governments and corporations make the change..... but as we see it is happening..... so there's always hope....... and hopefully we'll see a rise in innovation......... where as MS couldn't innovate if they had a time machine....... :p

DELLWORLD...... I reckon it'd be something like and have the reliability of WESTWORLD....... :p :p :p

[iGav]

Originally posted by digital1
A wide screen iMac would be beautiful. It would bring tears to my eyes. But if anything, I think the 17 in. screen is more likely. If that doesn't happen I expect to see some kind of processor and/or GPU upgrade, but who knows.

There was a thread about this ages ago..... it'd be so cool if the whole of Apples display ranges (including portables) went widescreen......... if Apple don't go to 17" on the iMac G4 then maybe they should atleast consider the 15.2" of the PowerBook G4....... although not a huge incress in size...... the widescreen is certainly cooler looking...... and it'd mean that maybe they'd get a better deal on display prices what with having to order more of the 15.2"'s........... hence in theory reducing prices........ unlikely I know....... :p :)

[digital1]

good stuff iGav. Yeah that DellWorld thinger is scary.... of course now that i think of it, if dell did that, M$ would have to sue them because dell would be promoting an OS as their own to a large audience. Then M$ would abandon Dell. Then Dell would have to switch over to OS X and then all the other PC companies would either switch to linux, or OS X which would force M$ to make their own computers (which I hear they are doing now) and M$ would be tiny :D LOL

[digital1]

that is a good point iGav, If they purchase the LCDs in even higher quantities than they could get good prices on LCDs thus lowering the cost of flat panel iMacs. I think it would be cool to see a graphics workstation iMac. That would be cool.

[iGav]

Originally posted by digital1
good stuff iGav. Yeah that DellWorld thinger is scary.... of course now that i think of it, if dell did that, M$ would have to sue them because dell would be promoting an OS as their own to a large audience. Then M$ would abandon Dell. Then Dell would have to switch over to OS X and then all the other PC companies would either switch to linux, or OS X which would force M$ to make their own computers (which I hear they are doing now) and M$ would be tiny :D LOL

You can just imagine the Dell Dude malfunctioning now.......... :eek: :p

[mischief]

Being that OS X is based on the BSD kernel and we know that Apple has hired ****loads of programmers in India, who's to say that Jaguar isn't x86 installable? That would certainly explain the " Some features of Jaguar have certain people (at MS) rather upset" comment.

Plus if Jaguar is designed to make extensive use of Open GL to speed mundaine tasks it reduces the impact of non-Altivec CPU's as long as there's adequate VR and GPU. Which brings to mind the rumors about switching to IBM doing the next 2 generations of PPC.......

If Jaguar is set up to not only re-route the screen buffer and anything that can work on the GPU rather than the CPU but also Altivec code........ It's a little far fetched, but X.2 seems to be a re-group and Attack sort of release. Quartz didn't become a standard like open GL so QE will re-route to cover the setback. We have no way of knowing if the final release will do the same for AltiVec actions or not.

If it turns out that Jaguar was designed to reduce reliance on one CPU feature or other this could enhance the versatility and longevity of the OS and give the Mac a much needed boost.

BTW: I'm not entirely awake today so don't jump all over my ass (Alpha -You closet-:p )

[Moxiemike]

Originally posted by iGAV


There was a thread about this ages ago..... it'd be so cool if the whole of Apples display ranges (including portables) went widescreen......... if Apple don't go to 17" on the iMac G4 then maybe they should atleast consider the 15.2" of the PowerBook G4....... although not a huge incress in size...... the widescreen is certainly cooler looking...... and it'd mean that maybe they'd get a better deal on display prices what with having to order more of the 15.2"'s........... hence in theory reducing prices........ unlikely I know....... :p :)

I know this is a bit off topic but.... what if they did something like this:

Just for comparisons sake

[digital1]

yeah instead of him saying "Dude your Gettin a Dell" He would say "Dude you're gettin a Mac" or for kicks ;) he could say "Dude, You're gettin a G5" :D LOL LOL that would be funny.

[digital1]

good point Mischief. We will just have to see at Macworld what Jaguar has to offer. BTW has anybody ever gotten a Jobs Keynote to work in Real time? I can never get through... Also Moxiemike, you are bringin tears to my eyes :D :D I WANT I WANT I WANT :D nice renditions there.

[iGav]

Originally posted by digital1
that is a good point iGav, If they purchase the LCDs in even higher quantities than they could get good prices on LCDs thus lowering the cost of flat panel iMacs. I think it would be cool to see a graphics workstation iMac. That would be cool.

That'd hopefully be the idea....... I have a 15" Sony LCD operating as a dual display on my TiBook and I much prefer the widescreen of the TiBook....... although upgrading the iMac G4 to the widescreen wouldn't in itself be keynote material....... along with other upgrades such as better graphics and alittle more power..... would certainly make it worth Steve's time....... another thing that Apple needs to promote more is iApp's with the iMac G4...... people need to be made to understand that it reallly is a fine, fine consumer machine, and that it comes with all the software you need for music, dv, dvd (some models), edit photo's etc etc.... i still don't think they are pushing this enough to prospective consumers.......... alot of people still seem to freak out because they think you can't do squat on a mac.......

Just a thought......

[jelloshotsrule]

well, that is funny. the fact that people are losing sleep over it.... ha!

however, i gotta say that it makes sense they do something in return. i mean, apple is fairly openly attacking them, and thus i'd only expect that they strike back... but what's funny is, in their case, most people will realize how pathetic an attempt it is and laugh at them. like i am doing now...

[job]

Originally posted by Moxiemike


wow. the best web site ever, aside from macrumors.com. :)

Yeah, I jusy visited it for the first time. The reverse T-shirts are great. Might buy one just for fun. :)

[digital1]

I totally see where you are coming from iGav. I had a debate with 4 people at once trying to convince them that Macs can do basically anything PCs can do. The eventuality of this healthy debate was that they all just gave up ;) I guess I had to many good points :D But I totally see you eye to eye on iApps.

[digital1]

Good stuff about the shirts ;)

[iGav]

Originally posted by Moxiemike


I know this is a bit off topic but.... what if they did something like this:

Just for comparisons sake

Wides just look so much better......... :)

Excellent point there Mischief.......... what you said about Alpha..... not about 'Jaguar'...... :p :p :p

I jest........ :eek: :p

'Jaguar' certainly does seem to be an 'ATTACK' release....... and certainly offloading stuff onto the graphics card certainly makes sense.... but would Apple really junk all the work that Adobe and the like have done to Altivec PS, and AE etc etc....... couldn't IBM just include (license from Moto) Altivec on there chips to further speed things up????

[digital1]

Maybe what they can do in Jaguar is basically use the Graphics subsystem as a storage and integer execution stage for graphics apps, and then force the G4 to do the Floating point calcs. Kind of splitting up the work and still using Altivec for FLOPS. Just a thought.

[iGav]

Originally posted by digital1
I totally see where you are coming from iGav. I had a debate with 4 people at once trying to convince them that Macs can do basically anything PCs can do. The eventuality of this healthy debate was that they all just gave up ;) I guess I had to many good points :D But I totally see you eye to eye on iApps.

Mac's can also run Windows with half decent stability..... something most PC's have trouble with...... :p :p :p

As for getting Job's keynote in realtime.... no chance this year... I'm having to stream over a 56k........ this is gonna be ugly.......

[iGav]

Originally posted by digital1
Maybe what they can do in Jaguar is basically use the Graphics subsystem as a storage and integer execution stage for graphics apps, and then force the G4 to do the Floating point calcs. Kind of splitting up the work and still using Altivec for FLOPS. Just a thought.

I have no real knowledge about how cpu's work....... so can't really say...... but IMHO anything that makes the mac faster still.... such as including Altivec on the possible IBM next generation PPC is in my eyes a good thing....... :)

[digital1]

My point exactly about macs running windows :-D and about the jobs' keynote, that is going be ugly. I am going to be watching it at work where we have a T1, but still, i think someone should mirror it or something! When Xserve was released someone gave moment by moment commentary, which was very helpful for those that couldn't do a stream, that could be helpful at least. But a Jobs' keynote is hard to get at.

[digital1]

Altivec is beautiful. I am hearing things about the New G5 sporting the IBM Power4 processor with extra fixings on it. I also heared something about G5 possibly using Multi-cores. The Power4 chip(s) is beauteous also. To see that on a Mac would make me homer simpson happy. (Drool) :D

[iGav]

Originally posted by digital1
My point exactly about macs running windows :-D and about the jobs' keynote, that is going be ugly. I am going to be watching it at work where we have a T1, but still, i think someone should mirror it or something! When Xserve was released someone gave moment by moment commentary, which was very helpful for those that couldn't do a stream, that could be helpful at least. But a Jobs' keynote is hard to get at.

I just try and connect early....... to makesure that I don't miss out in the grand 'Stream' of things....... :p

Anyway's... is getting late here in old blighty......... so will see's you all tomorrow.....

[digital1]

Have fun ;) TTYL :) Everyone else is welcome to join more in this collage of apple fun :D

[mischief]

Originally posted by iGAV


Wides just look so much better......... :)

Excellent point there Mischief.......... what you said about Alpha..... not about 'Jaguar'...... :p :p :p

I jest........ :eek: :p

'Jaguar' certainly does seem to be an 'ATTACK' release....... and certainly offloading stuff onto the graphics card certainly makes sense.... but would Apple really junk all the work that Adobe and the like have done to Altivec PS, and AE etc etc....... couldn't IBM just include (license from Moto) Altivec on there chips to further speed things up????

Actually, I was thinking about doing to Altivec's unique streams what QE does to Quartz and dump Altivec Actions into other pipelines to diversify possible chipsets.

For example: The G3 750FX is software configurable, similar to a Transmeta chip, so you could almost have Darwin do a "virtual" Altivec with some registers.....

[digital1]

I see what you are saying mischief. That would be cool.

[job]

Originally posted by iGAV
As for getting Job's keynote in realtime.... no chance this year... I'm having to stream over a 56k........ this is gonna be ugly.......

I'm going to watch it live on TechTV. :D :D

[digital1]

What time does it play on Tech TV?

[job]

Apparently at 8AM central. Thats what I heard in these forums. :D

[job]

Hm, I'm checking TechTV's program line-up. Nothing about the expo at 8AM, but they have some shows covering it later on in the day.

hitman

[job]

OK, at 8PM central :

Macworld Expo
TechTV's Brett Larson checks in with a report from the show floor of Macworld Expo in New York.

hitman

[digital1]

That's what I thought, I was checking out the TechTv site and saw nothing per say, I think Techlive will cover the expo. I don't know about the Screensavers, sometimes they do, but I think Techlive will be there.

[digital1]

Thanks Hitman :D I think that will be highly appreciated by the posters here :D

[job]

Is Techlive another channel? I don't have cable/sattelite at my house (I'm watching a dog for some friends and they have TV, so I thought I would just watch it at their place.... :D)

[digital1]

Techlive is TechTV's news show. It features stuff about industry trade shows (including Macworld) , tech stocks, tech company profiles and such. The time that you gave sounds like a time techlive comes on, on TechTV.

[job]

Originally posted by digital1
Techlive is TechTV's news show. It features stuff about industry trade shows (including Macworld) , tech stocks, tech company profiles and such. The time that you gave sounds like a time techlive comes on, on TechTV.

Kewl. Sounds good. :D :D

[digital1]

Yup it is one of my fave shows(well almost all of them are) :D

[digital1]

This article speaks for itself:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/779614.asp


I personally think its true :D, Dell and Gateway are just irritated I think

[job]

Yeah, I think it is too. We Mac users like to "Think Different." :D

It's kinda cool about the percentages, i.e. Mac users are more likely to buy things online and start their own webpage. As if we didn't know that already..:D :rolleyes: