Monitor Advice

[Tremaine]

I'm placing my order for a new 2.0Dual G5, however the monitors announced today (which I have been waiting for) are just too much money for what you get. I rather get something from Samsung, Sony, ViewSonic, etc. I plan to upgrade my G5 with a 9600 vid card too.

Do you have a recommendation for a 18-20" model with decent response times?

[Webster]

I have the same question. Those ADC are a bit much for me. Any recommendations?
How about the Samsung 193P?
Thanks!

[Hlau]

Exactly the same question here.

[Webster]

Any recommendations out there for LCD displays?
I wish I could afford the ACD. But I don't have that kind of $.
I hear conflicting reports on the Samsung 193P. Some people swear by it and others tell me it's not MAC compatible.
If not the 193P then what other displays are good options?
I do a bit of graphic design work.
I have a G4 Quicksilver 867.
And yes I am a newbie!!
Thanks!

[solvs]

Any recommendations out there for LCD displays?
I wish I could afford the ACD. But I don't have that kind of $.
I hear conflicting reports on the Samsung 193P. Some people swear by it and others tell me it's not MAC compatible.
If not the 193P then what other displays are good options?
I do a bit of graphic design work.
I have a G4 Quicksilver 867.
And yes I am a newbie!!
Thanks!

If it's got a DVI connection, it's probably Mac compatible. Go to Newegg.com for some reviews and pretty good prices.

[Tremaine]

I have been researching and reading reviews all day and the 193p is Mac compatible. I have not found a good reason to buy the Apple displays other than "coolness" factor. From everything I have read, the Samsung 193p is the best of the 19" LCDs. At about $725-750, it is far better than the Apple 17" and just a hair less than the 20" for 1/2 the price...

[edit for typo]

[Webster]

tremaine,
why is the 193t better than the 193p?

[jsw]

...Those ADC are a bit much for me. ...

As you probably know, the new monitors are DVI, not ADC, and come bundled with USB 2.0 and Firewire connectors, as well as a single cable from the monitor to the computer.

Apple displays are expensive; however, comparing resolution, video specs, features, and case (aluminum vs plastic), they aren't a bad deal.

However, I've heard good things about the Samsung 193P as well - I'm not sure what the 193T is, or how it differs.

[Tremaine]

tremaine,
why is the 193t better than the 193p?

whoops - typo, I meant the 193p, sorry

[Whigga Spitta]

All in all, are Samsung quality LCD monitors (specifically 17-19 inch versions)? I have heard some mixed messages about them, but they seem reasonably priced and definitely have an Apple-esque coolness factor. One more thing, is there a quality difference between VGA and DVI?

[Webster]

Thanks Tremaine!
Are you sure about the compatibility?
I saw this review that says the software for 193P is for windows only.
And because of that you can't control the brightness of the display.
I'm being overly cautious because I don't want to be in a position where i need to send it back.
What have you found in regards to the compatibility issue?

Here's the link to the review:
http://pcworld.pricegrabber.com/rating_getprodrev.php/product_id=1539958/id_type=M

[ozone]

I've heard that I know that Samsung built the LCD monitors for Dell a few years back, and that they were always favorably reviewed. I had one and I agree that they were good monitors for the money. I've also heard that Samsung builds the LCD monitors for Apple, but I don't know if this is still the case.

Dell has a 19" (1901FP? or something) that CNET reviewed very favorably a while back. It has a DVI input and is also rotatable between landscape/portrait. Not sure if it is 100% Mac compatible. Might be worth a look.

[QCassidy352]

That Samsung has 1280x1024 resolution. That's the same as on most 17" LCDs, including apple's. The Samsung does have some great other specs, but the bottom line is that it's no more viewing area than a 17" screen. So when you say it only costs a little more than Apple's 17" display, I hope you realize that there's a reason why.

I'm not saying this is a bad screen, but it should really be compared to the 17" apple display, not the 20". And when you look at it that way, it's not such a good buy at all.

JSW is right - apple's monitors are expensive, but you're paying for quality, and quality is what you get. When a "similar" product costs a fraction as much... there's usually a reason why.

[Ben Sheehan]

All in all, are Samsung quality LCD monitors (specifically 17-19 inch versions)? I have heard some mixed messages about them, but they seem reasonably priced and definitely have an Apple-esque coolness factor. One more thing, is there a quality difference between VGA and DVI?

After going through the whole Samsung compatibility issue with numerous dealers, I went out and bought a Samsung 172X (the Samsung website says it's not mac compatible, even though it is).

I haven't placed it right beside a 17" studio display to do a comparison, but I can't spot any difference in brightness and picture quality - if anything I'd lean towards the Samsung for form factor and the 12ms response time (the specs are near identical anyway).

Samsung make great LCD's - in fact weren't they manufacturing the mac studio display LCD's at one point?

[Tremaine]

Here's a link I thought was helpful in giving me good info on the 193p and some of the others in the class.

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20040326/lcd-04.html

The Samsung is one of the few 19" LCDs with 20ms response time. This is not as good as an Apple 20" but for $725, its pretty sweet.

Also a link to a guide on LCD technicalities (ie why contrast ratios aren't accurate to judge quality by)

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20040226/index.html

[Ben Sheehan]

Forgot to add - Samsung includes a 3 year warranty on their LCD's (i.e. free apple care type product) and the 172X sells here in Australia for around $500 less than a 17" studio display..... I'm no apple hater, but buying a monitor for my new G5 really was an easy decision.

[Tremaine]

Agreed, Ben. I'm no Apple hater either and in fact just ordered my Dual 2.0 to replace my 800 iMac, but after that I don't see the value in purchasing the 20". Perhaps someone will pipe up with other alternatives before I make a purchase...

Comparing the 193p to the Apple 17". First, the 17" monitor doesn't ROTATE or is it wall mountable. Second, the contrast ratio is 800:1 on the Samsung to Apple's 350:1. Third, brightness for the Samsung is 250cd/m2 and the Apple is only 200cd/m2. The Apple has the "old" look, but 2 USB connex, which the Samsung doesn't.

[Tampa_artist]

I have a Dual 2.0 Ghz G5 with a 21" samsung crt and a 17 dell crt (both vga) I have them plugged into each of the plugs in the back of the mac using the appropriate adapters. Everything worked fine for about two months, now I'm noticing that sometimes when I turn the computer on from sleep mode, the 21" is very bright, and the fonts are washed out (not an ATM problem, just that the screen is so bright that it washes out the text) I have been able to figure out that if I unplug my second monitor, run detect displays the screen comes back to normal. Then, just plug it back in and run detect again. I've tried changing out the second monitor (17") thinking that that might be the problem, but it still continues. Is my monitor card going out already? or maybe I need more ram? (if so, can I add ram to an existing card, or just have to buy a whole new one?) Thanks for any input you have!

[Webster]

I emailed the folks who handle MagicTune (Samsung's 193P display software). Here's what they had to say:

Thank you for the inquiry. The 193P will auto adjust if you hold in the
power button for three seconds. Since the MagicTune software does not
support Macintosh operating systems you might try using any adjustments
for your display that are supplied with your graphic card driver software.

Please send any other questions about your 193P directly to Samsung's
technical support department.

Regards,

Technical Support Team
Portrait Displays, Inc.
www.portrait.com

I also spoke with Samsung and they said the same thing.

[Grimace]

I used a Samsung 19" LCD for the past 18 months and it is the most incredible monitor I've ever owned. You can get one for about $600. DVI and VGA connectors - and beautiful images.

[Webster]

which 19 inch samsung do you have?

[edesignuk]

Dell 2001FP (Using LG.Philips panel) - 20.1" - 1600x1200 native - 400:1 - 16ms response - not too much $$$$!

[Koodauw]

I checked out the 193p, and it looks nice, but its not the Wide aspect like the apple 20'' right? Any displays out there that are Wide aspect at a good price other than the Cinema displays.

[Lewisham]

Samsung make a wide aspect monitor, the 172W. (I think they're the numbers, the letter is the important bit :) ). Thing is, the horizontal resolution is the same as a standard 17" screen, just with the top and bottom lopped off! So what you save is dead screen space when watching widescreen DVDs in full-screen, and what you lose is vertical space when doing anything else. :eek: I foolishly, had to have this pointed out to me. I'm such a loser sometimes. :rolleyes:

Take a look at widescreen monitors, but look at them by horizontal resolution and price bracket.

Personally, I think I'll buy two 17" Samsungs. I think the 19" mentioned higher actually has the same resolution as Samsung's 17" models, everything is just *bigger*. I know plenty of people who would pay for that, but I don't think I will. Moving my eyes lots gets a bit achy after a while, as well the extra money piling up when you want dual screens.

Cheers
Chris

[Webster]

Here's more info on the 193P.
Samsung emailed me this response today:

Thank you for contacting us. The SyncMaster 193P features a buttonless design, and can be adjusted only through the included MagicTune software. This software is compatible only with Windows, so the brightness, contrast, and other settings of the monitor cannot be adjusted by a Mac. As such, the SyncMaster 193P is not recommended for use with non-Windows operating systems.


I hope this is helpful.

[Lewisham]

Isn't Mac OS X able to handle this stuff natively, like it does the LCD on my Powerbook, or on the iMac family?

Chris

[giraffi]

So could this mean that the 193P has some automated adjustments which override the OS X display settings? If it doesn't, I don't see the lack of MagicTune for Mac as a problem.

Has somebody here actually tried using a Mac with the 193P or 173P? I don't have the guts to buy one and just hope it works :)

[fossicker]

So could this mean that the 193P has some automated adjustments which override the OS X display settings? If it doesn't, I don't see the lack of MagicTune for Mac as a problem.

Has somebody here actually tried using a Mac with the 193P or 173P? I don't have the guts to buy one and just hope it works :)

I'm curious about this, too -- also whether the pivot feature works on mac.

[Cohiba]

I just got a new sony 17" (see link below) for my g5 dual 1.8 for $499. I did A LOT of research and found the sony 17" & Samsung to be very comprable, either one is a very good choice. Good luck!
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=SDMHS73P/B&CategoryName=cpu_Displays_FlatPanelLCDs_17%22LCD&DCMP=CNET_DF&HQS=MT_SDMHS73P/B

[Euthyphro]

I also have been trying to hunt down a good quality LCD to accompany my 1.8DP. I was going to go for the Samsung 213T 20" (~$1150) since the specs looks pretty decent (other than its response time), but decided to go ahead with the new Apple 20" cinema. The EDU price is only $1169, making it reasonably competetive with the other 20" lcds considering the wide aspect (16:10) , the additional ports, and its decent specs. I couldn't find any other wide aspect 20" LCDs.

You actually get more pixels with the 5:4 aspect 20" LCDs (150 more vertical pixels, 80 less horizontal pixels), but I like to have my tools and palletes always open to the side, so the 16:10 works much better for my work. And it doubles a little better for DVD widescreen playback. Plus, the apple design is very slick. I found it humorous when Jobs said that back of the new Apple displays looks better than the front of their competitors. It's true though. Design has a cost, as you probably remember the samsung Porsche ("P") models (171P I think?) also demanded a premium when the P series were designed by Porsche. The downside to the Apple in the single DVI input; it would have been nice to see a dual DVI/VGA input so it can be readily shared between two machines. Morevover, the reviews aren't in yet, but I 'm hoping Apple lives up to form.

For me, my first choice turned out to be the new apple 20" cinema, followed by either the LG 2010p or the Samsung 213T. The Formac 2010 also has impressive specs (also priced about the same), but I've read mixed reviews about the stability of the company, and the design also needs the alum facelift, and no one has them in stock. The Dell 2001 has been getting mixed reviews, but is priced better than all of them, usually below $900.

I decided against the 19" because you basically get the same resolution (1280x1024) as the 17", thus you end up with fewer PPI, so I'd stay away from the 18" and 19" displays for that reason.

The iMac 17" widescreen at 1440x900 would have been a hit for most people and probably could have been priced around $799. Other existing 17" widescreens (e.g., Samsung 172w) only have 768 vertical pixels (same as 15" lcds) just don't cut it.

Good luck with your purchase.


PS: the Samsung pivot feature does not work with the G5s AFIK

[Madmic23]

Well this might be a little late since everyone is talking about samsung and sony in here now, but if you want a comparable monitor to Apples, buy an LG. Why? Cause it's the same damn thing! They pointed this out on TechTV a while back, at least, before the Apple display updates.
But with the older ones, LG sold the EXACT same monitos, same resolution, same USB hub, same glass, the only thing that was different was the case that it was in, and the fact that it used DVI over ADC.
I had a 15" LG Flatron a while back, and I wasn't too happy with it, so I got a 17" Viewsonic VP171b (the b stands for black!) :)
The Viewsonic is way better, and it has 16ms response time. But it has one annoying green stuck pixel. I hate those.

[Tremaine]

Well, I must admit that earlier in this thread I was thinkingthe Apple monitors were over priced, but the more I researched I released there was only a slight premium. I have always had good experiences with Apple products and just couldn't bring myself to buy a Samsung for my Dual 2.0. I went ahead and ordered the 20". I can't wait... :o

[jaromski]

apple lcd displays are the best. i bought a 23" cinema a few years ago when it first came out and it has been worth every penny.

i have used samsung, sony, and also solarism lcd, and none compare to the apple display. the picture quality doesn't compare, and it works with a pc/linux too. you do have to muck around with the xf86config file a bit, but it does work.

jaromski

[giraffi]

Has somebody here actually tried using a Mac with the 193P or 173P? I don't have the guts to buy one and just hope it works :)
I found one report (http://www.macworld.com/forums/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB3&Number=236624&Forum=UBB3&Words=193p&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=231737&Search=true#Post236624) at the Macworld forums:

I bought the Samsung193P two days ago. I'm happy to report that there are no problems.

[cr2sh]

so the brightness, contrast, and other settings of the monitor cannot be adjusted by a Mac.

Yeh, but mac has its own color calibration utility built into it...I'd much rather use apple's software that having to install some Samsung POS. :)

[Cohiba]

I just purchased a Sony 17" (see link) for my new G5. I did a lot of research; at the end of the day I found the spec's of the sony to be comparable to the Mac's, and found the Mac was just too pricey.

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.jsp?b=b&c=2&oid=81244&catoid=-8027&m=0&com.broadvision.session.new=Yes&com.broadvision.session.new=Yes&qp=0&ct=0&BV_SessionID=@@@@1212293917.1089725932@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccccadclmkefkmjcfngcfkmdffhdffl.0

[Ipaqman]

hey,

does anybody know anything about the dell 19" ultrasharp LCD monitor. is it any good compared to the other 19" flat panel monitors? Also is this monitor widescreen?

let me know what you think of it?

regards,
ipaqman

[scotta@duckfami]

I work for a company in Oregon that buys a lot of computers and monitors from a company called CTL (Computer Technology Link). http://www.ctlcorp.com/ I ended up buying the 20" flat panel from them for a great price. The specs were equal to or better than the Apple TFT's. It came with DVI and VGA connectors. 3 year no hassle warranty, good pixel policy too!

My 2 cents worth.

-Scott-

[Koodauw]

I just purchased the 17'' Wide aspect Samsung from bby.com It should be here in a few days. I was just wondering this after I placed the order, Will my 12'' PB be able to handle a wide aspect resolution?

[cr2sh]

It may be of some worth to point out that CircuitCity has the Sony 19" LCD on sale for $599 after a $100 rebate.

Link! (http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.jsp?BV_EngineID=ccedadclmkeflglcfngcfkmdffhdffl.0&b=g&c=1&WT.mc_n=72&oid=88472&u=c&WT.mc_t=C&BV_SessionID=%40%40%40%401323709661.1089758426%40%40%40%40&BV_UseBVCookie=yes&goTo=detail&c=1&b=g&u=c)

[Ipaqman]

how does the sony compare with the dell as far as response time? do you think that the sony is a better choice? is this a good choice if i am going to be watching movies on it? also, if i have a top of the line powermac G5 will i notice the slower response time?

thanks again for all of your help.

much appreciated,
ipaqman

[Gentz]

Well, I've been researching LCDs for my new 2.5ghz G5(soon :() and I've been looking into the 173P for its supposedly outstanding image quality(colour purity, sharpness, etc),and one thing that turned me off was its lack of physical controls. During my investigations, I came across this post at MacNN:

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?threadid=190704&highlight=173p

A very harsh review inded!

So, now I'm looking into the Samsung 710T, which is supposed to be very similar to the 173P except with a 12ms response time! :eek: So, does anyone here have or ever used a 710T before?

[sopicchio]

Here's more info on the 193P.
Samsung emailed me this response today:

Thank you for contacting us. The SyncMaster 193P features a buttonless design, and can be adjusted only through the included MagicTune software. This software is compatible only with Windows, so the brightness, contrast, and other settings of the monitor cannot be adjusted by a Mac. As such, the SyncMaster 193P is not recommended for use with non-Windows operating systems.


I hope this is helpful.

Hi... what about using Virtual Pc?

[edesignuk]

Hi... what about using Virtual Pc?VPC is am emulated enviroment. I wouldn't have thought it'd work.

[paxtonandrew]

apple lcd displays are the best. i bought a 23" cinema a few years ago when it first came out and it has been worth every penny.

i have used samsung, sony, and also solarism lcd, and none compare to the apple display. the picture quality doesn't compare, and it works with a pc/linux too. you do have to muck around with the xf86config file a bit, but it does work.

jaromski

I have to agree. I have the current 20 inch (replaced an ancient AudioVision, yes Apple) which is still going (attached to my G3) and I must say that the Apple monitors have gotten better over time. The AudioVision is a POS compared to the new LCDs. The only thing i must do now is replace My GeForce 2 graphic card...

[yerkyl]

I just bought a Samsung 173P for my G4 and it's true that the software for the controls only works with Windows. But I love it and am determined to make do, even if that means hooking it up to a PC and adjusting it, which is what Samsung suggested to me.

But isn't there some mini program somewhere that'll let me control the brightness (at least) through the video card? I have an ATI Rage 128 Pro.