MacWorld Boston 2004

[MacRumors]

Without much fanfare or anticipation, MacWorldExpo (http://www.macworldexpo.com/) is kicking off tomorrow (July 12th, 2004) in Boston, MA.

This year's summer MacWorld Expo marks a move back to the Boston venue (from New York) which was surrounded in controversy (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/01/20040123144731.shtml) ultimately leading to Apple's decision to not participate (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/10/20021017120834.shtml) in the expo.

As a result, attention around the summer expo has been remarkably minimal.

[ThomasJefferson]

Go Boston.

[Adurbe]

I remember not long ago when we all useed to look forward to this event...

I wonder if apple are regretting not going, it may have been just enough more time from the WWDC to release the new iMac before the edu buying begins

Apple not being there has removed all relevance it once had, i can set up a mac Expo and not have apple come :p ;)

[MacsRgr8]

Low expectations....

- 10.4 already demoed
- Updated G5 already shown
- new displays already there
- iMacs not coming 'till September
- 10.3.5 dev seeds only just posted...
- Apple not being there... etc.

What is there to expect?

It will just be a "normal" Apple Expo like the London one.

[musicpyrite]

Yea, I got an invitation to go to Mac World in the mail, I decided not to go because of the reasons listed below...

pitty... :(


Low expectations....

- 10.4 already demoed
- Updated G5 already shown
- new displays already there
- iMacs not coming 'till September
- 10.3.5 dev seeds only just posted...
- Apple not being there... etc.

What is there to expect?

It will just be a "normal" Apple Expo like the London one.

[iChan]

shouldn't it be mandatory for apple to be there? at least have a stand for chrissakes!

The organisers should have even paid for apple to be there...

they would have made it up with increased participation from 3rd parties.

[Freg3000]

It is so sad. So very sad. They should have left the name as "Creative Pro" just so that such a pitiful expo will not be associated with the MacWorld moniker.

No offense to anyone attending the show, I hope you have a wonderful time regardless of the lackluster expectations.

[~Shard~]

I completely forgot about this event, and I guess that's with good reason. Due to the circumstances, I might as well just set up a Mac expo in my basement and demo some stuff and it would be about the same. ;) I always like kepeing up on Apple-related events and hearing the latest and greatest news, but I just can't get excited about this expo anymore...

[wdlove]

I'm very much looking froward to MacWorld Boston. Apple should feel ashamed for not participating.

When the Macworld Conference & Expo opens tomorrow at the new Boston Convention & Exhibition Center, the 10,000 computer geeks expected to attend will have the run of the massive South Boston meeting hall.

Well, sort of.

While the Macworlders grab their name tags and head for the center's sprawling exhibit floor, about 1,200 others will be attending a corporate meeting sponsored by German software maker SAP in the meeting rooms upstairs. And chances are that those attending one convention will never encounter participants from the other.

For the convention center, Macworld is the first high-profile show. But the event represents more than an opening; it marks a shift in strategy.

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2004/07/11/a_break_with_convention/

[amichalo]

If you saw the guys photos from the link in the original story, there is an advertising truck with a huge sight "Say no to Macworld" and to voice your complains, call 617-954-2000 which is the number to the convention center. The ad also says "Save our Jobs" and "Say no to a company that supports outsourcing U.S. jobs".

What are they talking about?

[SuperChuck]

If you saw the guys photos from the link in the original story, there is an advertising truck with a huge sight "Say no to Macworld" and to voice your complains, call 617-954-2000 which is the number to the convention center. The ad also says "Save our Jobs" and "Say no to a company that supports outsourcing U.S. jobs".

What are they talking about?

Well, I'm not sure if they are referring to IDG (the company that owns Macworld) or Apple itself. I know for a fact that Apple is outsourcing at an increasing rate, and I would wager that IDG is doing the same.

I really think Apple is messing up by jumping on the outsourcing bandwagon. The other guys do it so they can sell their junky peecees for 500 bucks, but Apple doesn't play that game. I think a much better strategy would be to keep the jobs in the US and use it as a selling point: "You pay a little more for our products because we pay American workers to assemble and service them."

Outsourcing is becoming a bigger and bigger deal every day, and I imagine that before long, it will start to be a major factor in people's purchasing decisions here in the US.

[SuperChuck]

I'm very much looking froward to MacWorld Boston. Apple should feel ashamed for not participating.

When the Macworld Conference & Expo opens tomorrow at the new Boston Convention & Exhibition Center, the 10,000 computer geeks expected to attend will have the run of the massive South Boston meeting hall.

Well, sort of.

While the Macworlders grab their name tags and head for the center's sprawling exhibit floor, about 1,200 others will be attending a corporate meeting sponsored by German software maker SAP in the meeting rooms upstairs. And chances are that those attending one convention will never encounter participants from the other.

For the convention center, Macworld is the first high-profile show. But the event represents more than an opening; it marks a shift in strategy.

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2004/07/11/a_break_with_convention/

I think you're missing (or choosing to ignore) Apple's point. Boston is a great city. Beautiful architecture, rich history, well educated, etc - I'm not knocking Boston.

But it is not New York.

NYC is as much a city of the world as it is a city of the US. It is a global player that attracts global attention like no other city in the US. It is also the communications capital of the US. If you want every major publication to attend an event, you hold it in NYC.

I don't think Apple was blind to the value Macworld could have for them in Boston, they just knew that it was less valuable than NYC, and so they used the best ammo they had to get it moved back.

In all honesty, I think they figured Macworld would concede and move the show. And, chances are, they will for next year.

[Ibjr]

Outsourcing is becoming a bigger and bigger deal every day, and I imagine that before long, it will start to be a major factor in people's purchasing decisions here in the US.

No.

Predictions of American Fascism is nothing to base Apple’s strategy on.

[TWinbrook46636]

It's sad when the best place for an American to find a job is no longer in America. :rolleyes:

[Gabriel]

I live in Hartford so it wouldn't be too difficult for me to get to Boston. I've always wanted to go to a big show in NY but I've never been able to go to one before. I'm not sure I want to take a day off work and get a train from New Haven. I've heard that it will be such a small show, is it going to be worth the effort?

[gorkonapple]

To the off topic things......

Sorry. There ARE jobs in America. You can MOVE somewhere besides your current location you know. Also, don't believe Joh Kerry. Read mor eand you will find out while IT lost alot of jobs, they also gained some too. The most vocal opponents seem to be the ones who all quit college due to .com pipe dreams. That said, I have no clue what that sign in those picture about. Can it be about Apple? Maybe but I doubt it since they aren't there. IDG? Possibly as they do print alot of magazines.


That said, I would go to MacWorld if I had the bucks to go. Even without Apple going, it still sounds like a great show.

As far as why is Apple not going.....to me this sounds like Steve Jobs all the way. It is also my most frustrating thing about him. The man is a genius in a lot of things, but his temper is well known. Sometimes this makes Apple sound like a small child whining and complaining. I ain't saying they should not try for the best locations, but they should at least be at MacWorld Boston. Apple needs to grow up a little bit and stop acting like a child and the same thing goes for some of the Apple Zealots. I love my Mac and will continue to buy them, but I am sick and tired of seeing the whining about no G5 Powerbooks, no 3.Ghz G5 and bla this and bladeblah that. Apple still is doing a awesome job.

[jimsowden]

I live in Hartford so it wouldn't be too difficult for me to get to Boston. I've always wanted to go to a big show in NY but I've never been able to go to one before. I'm not sure I want to take a day off work and get a train from New Haven. I've heard that it will be such a small show, is it going to be worth the effort?
They will have 2.5GHz G5s there, if that helps.

[bar italia]

Also, don't believe Joh Kerry. Read mor eand you will find out while IT lost alot of jobs, they also gained some too.

Well, which one is it? Did IT lose or gain jobs?

Also, your opinion would probably carry more weight if every third word wasn't misspelled. :rolleyes:

[FelixDerKater]

When was the last time you bought anything from Apple that was made in the USA? Not for years...

Apple could care less about people. They want money. If anything, I can see Apple as being more of a whorish monster than Microsoft if it ever gets to be the majority player in the computer/OS market.

[eric_n_dfw]

Well, I'm not sure if they are referring to IDG (the company that owns Macworld) or Apple itself. I know for a fact that Apple is outsourcing at an increasing rate, and I would wager that IDG is doing the same.

I really think Apple is messing up by jumping on the outsourcing bandwagon. The other guys do it so they can sell their junky peecees for 500 bucks, but Apple doesn't play that game. I think a much better strategy would be to keep the jobs in the US and use it as a selling point: "You pay a little more for our products because we pay American workers to assemble and service them."

Outsourcing is becoming a bigger and bigger deal every day, and I imagine that before long, it will start to be a major factor in people's purchasing decisions here in the US.
Global economy - if all of your competitors are doing it, you can only survive so long while you shareholders whine about your higher costs.

[jemeinc]

Global economy - if all of your competitors are doing it, you can only survive so long while you shareholders whine about your higher costs.

BINGO !!! Well stated... We've witnessed an economic change in our lifetime, & that's not always an easy thing to deal with- but no change is ever easy... There's jobs out there- they're just different than what we're used to... But the money is still there- just have to go find a way to get it... I'm not a fan of outsourcing, but as a small business owner I guess I understand it- even though I don't practice it... I respect peoples rights to protest about it, I just don't quite understand why anyone would waste valuable time doing it... Times are changing & that time could be spent preparing yourself, your family, & your business (if applicable) for the future... I guess people are trying to bring attention to the outsourcing shift that's been occuring for the past several years- but is there really anyone out there who isn't aware of it ?...

[appleguru1]

Well, I'll certainly be going, if for nothing more than to check out the brand new convention center and to check out the new release of sketch up (Great app BTW...)

In any case, I'm going because I've gone for... well, as long as I can remember (And I'm only 16). The last few years in New York were fun; they served as an excuse to get my family down to the big apple. We even brought our boat and got a slip on the hudson across from the javits center-- But the years in boston before that were even better.

Does anyone remember power computing's "We're fighting back for the Mac!" ad campaign when they were the first to release 200MHz+ computers? Anyone who was at MacWorld that year certainly would: Power Computing had a bungee jumping tower over Boston harbor that anyone who had the guts could take a leap from. Those were the glory days of MacWorld.


MacWorld's following used to be HUUUGE; now it is a mere blip on the radar screen. Ever since apple announced it wouldn't be attending any longer come MW 2004 in Boston, the feeling that once came with MacWorld came no longer. Even attendance numbers, by both exhibitors as well as people, were down at last years MW NY. Walking around the floor just didn't feel like it used to.

Apple's decision to try and sway product releases away from conventions/expos, is, in my opinion, another big mistake. Expos, especially one's like macworld, served as a great marketing tool, a marketplace to introduce new computing revolutions to the masses. By moving more and more releases to arbitrary dates and/or specialty conferences like WWDC, Apple has only served to loose some of the market share and publicity it could have gained.

While I love Apple, and I love Jobs, I can't say that I agree with everything they do. I see no reason why they couldn't at least attend MacWorld, I mean sheesh, they conference is NAMED after them and you'd think they'd at least want to make an appearance...

Well, enough ranting for me... ....Who know's, maybe Apple will have a suprise for me after all this year... :rolleyes:

[AMPrkm]

At a time when NYC needs it the most, IDG made a boneheaded choice by deciding to move Macworld back to Boston. Sort of reminds me of how little the federal government is doing to help make NYC more secure, even as the Republicans use a local tragedy as the backdrop for their convention.

[SuperChuck]

At a time when NYC needs it the most, IDG made a boneheaded choice by deciding to move Macworld back to Boston. Sort of reminds me of how little the federal government is doing to help make NYC more secure, even as the Republicans use a local tragedy as the backdrop for their convention.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[wdlove]

At a time when NYC needs it the most, IDG made a boneheaded choice by deciding to move Macworld back to Boston. Sort of reminds me of how little the federal government is doing to help make NYC more secure, even as the Republicans use a local tragedy as the backdrop for their convention.

The Republicans chose it for the very same reasons mentioned above. It is a World Class city. Everything is there, the Democrats made a big mistake by not going there also. With the high security and construction costs, money could have been saved on both sides. A little common sense would have gone a long way. It seems that there is plenty of arrogance on both sides when it comes to using the Boston venue.

[sosumi99]

I really think Apple is messing up by jumping on the outsourcing bandwagon. The other guys do it so they can sell their junky peecees for 500 bucks, but Apple doesn't play that game. I think a much better strategy would be to keep the jobs in the US and use it as a selling point: "You pay a little more for our products because we pay American workers to assemble and service them."


Why must people turn a perfectly good discussion about Apple into a political discussion? What's the point?

Apple sells to the rest of the world, you know? There are more of us than Americans. The US isn't the only country in the world. I had no desire to turn this into a political discussion, but since you are going down that route, I'll throw my bit in. For some of us, the fact that Apple is an INTERNATIONAL company is a selling point. If Apple became some protectionist tool of a benighted trade policy and went "We are all-American," then some of us will no longer be interested in Apple's products.

[Yvan256]

Outsourcing is becoming a bigger and bigger deal every day, and I imagine that before long, it will start to be a major factor in people's purchasing decisions here in the US.

Yes, it already does. See Wal-Mart, etc.

Oh, you meant to say that people will buy USA products because they're made in the USA?

Nope. They're doing like everyone else on the planet: they buy the cheapest stuff.

[OneDeadPixel]

NYC is the capitol of publishing, entertainment and media on the east coast. There are way more professionals using Macs here than probably anywhere else in the world. I really don't understand moving Macworld to Boston. It's a nice town but NYC is where the action is.

[Wonder Boy]

Sort of reminds me of how little the federal government is doing to help make NYC more secure, even as the Republicans use a local tragedy as the backdrop for their convention.

DC was attacked too. I guess the feds could consider that a local tragedy, as well.

[question fear]

um, back on sorta topic, if you want a free pass to the exhibition at macworld we are giving passes away at borders bookstores and we have stacks of them.
-carly

[dizastor]

Apparently, in an unexpected turn of events IDG has asked Arn of Macrumors fame to present the keynote speech at MacWorld Boston. With the absence of Steve Jobs and Apple, IDG feels that MacWorld Boston would attract more Mac geeks if they marketed it as a "rumor roundup" for the next REAL MacWorld, in San Fransisco in January of 2005.


No Way! Go ARN!

[broken_keyboard]

I think Steve just wants to show IDG who needs who the most. Also with the MacWorld SF and WWDC mid year they don't really need a third show.

Does anyone know if any non-Apple companies are planning any cool products for the show? Maybe MS will release VPC 7, it must be ready soon...

[latergator116]

um, back on sorta topic, if you want a free pass to the exhibition at macworld we are giving passes away at borders bookstores and we have stacks of them.
-carly

Thank you. I will be heading to my local Borders tomorrow anyway (need to get a book), so I might as well pick up a pass. Hopefully, I will be able to go to the expo.

[maxterpiece]

Anyone have any ideas? I would love to see VPC 7.....

[Counterfit]

I'm going, and I don't care if any of you guys think it would be better off in NYC, because I'm going for free (well, I have to pay for transportation costs...)

wdlove: I'm not sure how to get there. I was thinking commuter rail to Back Bay, then Orange line to State, and then Blue line to Maverick. That sound right to you? ;)

[GFLPraxis]

Low expectations....

- 10.4 already demoed
- Updated G5 already shown
- new displays already there
- iMacs not coming 'till September
- 10.3.5 dev seeds only just posted...
- Apple not being there... etc.

What is there to expect?

It will just be a "normal" Apple Expo like the London one.

Perhaps, 4th generation wireless-enabled video iPods?
What, it could happen... :D

[donwarnersaklad]

Where would there be any passes available for the MacWorld Expo Boston ?...

If you would, please let me know, email
dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu

[rdowns]

Apple's decision to try and sway product releases away from conventions/expos, is, in my opinion, another big mistake. Expos, especially one's like macworld, served as a great marketing tool, a marketplace to introduce new computing revolutions to the masses. By moving more and more releases to arbitrary dates and/or specialty conferences like WWDC, Apple has only served to loose some of the market share and publicity it could have gained.


I disagree. The increased publicity was more than offset by people waiting for expos and delaying purchases which hurt sales. Moreso than others, Apple fans would delay purchsing to wait and see what was coming up at the next expo. All Apple needs to do to garner publicity is schedule a press conference when they want to announce a new product with. The media knows a Jobs press conference will pay off and they attend.

[rdowns]

At a time when NYC needs it the most, IDG made a boneheaded choice by deciding to move Macworld back to Boston. Sort of reminds me of how little the federal government is doing to help make NYC more secure, even as the Republicans use a local tragedy as the backdrop for their convention.

I'm sure NYC's needs had nothing to do with it. As the Boston convention center is new, I'd wager they are cutting sweet deals with expo organizers to fill the place. In any case, IDG did blow it.

[Multimedia]

Apple's Exhibiting In NYC This Week At Digital Video Expo East July 14-16, Conference Starts tomorrow July 13-16 (http://www.dvexpo.com/east/) - I Expect Motion To Ship.

From the cover of the show's website:

"A Certified Pro has reached the highest skill level in the use and operation of Apple's professional applications. Certification is an official recognition of your knowledge of Apple's professional applications so you can market yourself to employers and clients as a skilled, pro-level user.

These Courses will give you a competitive edge in the digital production job market. Whether you're an editor, composer, special effects artist, sound designer, web developer or teach these skills, Apple training tools will help you expand your knowledge and skills.

More Details on Apple Certified Pro here.

Introducing Motion - SOLD OUT!
Final Cut Pro HD - SOLD OUT!
DVD Studio Pro 3 - Limited Seating Available"

So FCP HD, MOTION and DVD SP 3 are Super Popular Topics at this show.

[question fear]

Where would there be any passes available for the MacWorld Expo Boston ?...

If you would, please let me know, email
dsaklad@zurich.csail.mit.edu

once again, free exhibit hall passes at borders stores in the area.
just ask a seller or find the display in the computers section.

[MacKenzie999]

I think everyone that is so upset with MW/Boston needs to stop for a minute, take a deep breath and think:

There's a large gathering of mac-based users and vendors taking place in an easily accessible major east coast city. Why do you have a problem with this?

I think by now everyone knows the scope is significantly diminished this year, but it's still a big mac gathering. What's not to like? Sure, I'd love to see another "one more thing" moment but I've known for quite some time this will simply not happen and I'm ok with it.

I'm just stunned that such a fervent group of mac suporters is angry that there is a mac trade show happening.

Whatever.

[rotorblade]

I agree! Having attended all but 1 east coast MW Expo since it's inception (last years New York show), the best shows in my opinion were those from the days when Power Computing, BeOS and hundreds of other vendors were showing their wares. Since 1998, the shows have steadily declined, with Apple's own lackluster Keynote Address leading the charge.

With or without Apple, I plan to attend. MW Expos are much more than just Apple itself.

[iMan]

Well, which one is it? Did IT lose or gain jobs?

Also, your opinion would probably carry more weight if every third word wasn't misspelled. :rolleyes:

Could it be that... no! It could not be... yet another bushism...? :D

[uzombie]

I remember not long ago when we all useed to look forward to this event...

I wonder if apple are regretting not going, it may have been just enough more time from the WWDC to release the new iMac before the edu buying begins

Apple not being there has removed all relevance it once had, i can set up a mac Expo and not have apple come :p ;)

Yeah, I went once and it was very anticpated (last one I believe). Then it was Jacob Javitts (Union-goughers). I really think there should just be a consolidated East Coast Computer xpo and West Coast Computer xpo. Time them 6 months apart. Combine CES, all makes of computers, videogames and guns show under one roof! :D

Ok, skip the latter one. ;)

[themacman]

Is there even a keynote by jobs?

[SuperChuck]

Is there even a keynote by jobs?

Nope.

And does anybody else notice that the most vehement supporters of the Boston location are from Boston?

And the biggest detractors are from NYC?

And to reply to the pro-outsourcing folks, I must admit my bias - I work in a tech field in the U.S. and at the current rate of outsourcing, I will have to change my occupation or move to India.

I'm not a protectionist - I buy my wine and cheese from France, my coffee from Central America (fair trade whenever possible), my shoes are Italian - in short, I love imported goods and I would be upset to find out that my French Camembert was actually produced in a sweatshop in China.

I don't mind that the memory in my Powerbook is from Samsung (South Korea) - I like Samsung products. My hard drive is Hitachi. No problem. All I'm saying is, when a finished product is an Apple product, I'd like for it to be built by Apple in Cupertino. The same is true of any company I buy from anywhere in the world. I want to buy the craftsmanship of that company. And I am always willing to pay a little more for the privilege.

It's not just about protecting U.S. jobs - it's about protecting the quality, craftsmanship and heritage of every local industry everywhere in the world. If you make watches in Switzerland, I don't want your job to go overseas either.

[wdlove]

I'm going, and I don't care if any of you guys think it would be better off in NYC, because I'm going for free (well, I have to pay for transportation costs...)

wdlove: I'm not sure how to get there. I was thinking commuter rail to Back Bay, then Orange line to State, and then Blue line to Maverick. That sound right to you? ;)

Counterfit, hope to have a chance to meet you in person.

MBTA (Public Transportation) information

You want to get to South Station. If you are taking the Commuter rail from Providence, the end os the line is South Station.

However, you can take the MBTA #7 bus (South Station to City Point). It will let you off at the front door of the facility.


In addition to that coverage, MacWorld will also be running its own shuttle bus system from South Station to the BCEC. There will be MacWorld Representatives at South Station directing attendees to shuttle buses.

Macworld Shuttle Bus Service Schedule from South Station to the BCEC

Monday July 12, 2004 7:30am – 10:00am and 5:30pm – 7:00pm
Tuesday July 13, 2004 7:30am – 7:00pm
Wednesday July 14, 2004 7:30am – 7:30pm
Thursday July 15, 2004 7:30am – 5:00pm

Transportation to Boston Convention Center:

http://www.mccahome.com/blue-nav-bar-items/maps-directions.aspx

Commuter Rail Information:

http://www.mbta.com/traveling_t/schedules_commuterrail.asp

[ethernet76]

Well, I'm not sure if they are referring to IDG (the company that owns Macworld) or Apple itself. I know for a fact that Apple is outsourcing at an increasing rate, and I would wager that IDG is doing the same.

I really think Apple is messing up by jumping on the outsourcing bandwagon. The other guys do it so they can sell their junky peecees for 500 bucks, but Apple doesn't play that game. I think a much better strategy would be to keep the jobs in the US and use it as a selling point: "You pay a little more for our products because we pay American workers to assemble and service them."

Outsourcing is becoming a bigger and bigger deal every day, and I imagine that before long, it will start to be a major factor in people's purchasing decisions here in the US.

Anyone remember back in the early 90's when made in the US was a major selling point?

People expect their goods to be produced in a foreign country now. If people were economically minded, fair trade coffee, American made clothes, and products would be actively sought by consumers. However, they aren't.

Fair trade coffee can only be found at the most indie of places, American made clothes are extremely rare and takes a good knowledge of shops to find them. People still buy from Dell even though they're one of the leaders in shipping jobs to India.

Apple keeping all of it's jobs in the United States is stupid. Currently the U.S. labor market is overpriced. Record number of computer educated college stuldents are graduating, but the salary rates aren't dropping as fast as they should.

I wouldn't care if Apple shipped some jobs over seas as long as they weren't slave labour jobs.

[ethernet76]

And to reply to the pro-outsourcing folks, I must admit my bias - I work in a tech field in the U.S. and at the current rate of outsourcing, I will have to change my occupation or move to India.

It's not just about protecting U.S. jobs - it's about protecting the quality, craftsmanship and heritage of every local industry everywhere in the world. If you make watches in Switzerland, I don't want your job to go overseas either.

I'm just curious as to how much you made right out of college? An average business major makes about 35k from what I'd gathered. I'm not saying your overpriced, I'm saying the comp-tech job market is bloated.

Also, have you considered renegotiating your contract for less money in favor of job security?

As for craftmanship. I expect the same person in Taiwan to care the exact same amount as someone making the exact same product in America. We're talking unskilled labor slapping parts together. If it were true that American labor was superior in quality than foreign labor, Asian cars would fall apart after 5 years.

In reality outsourcing sucks, but until there is a correction in the jobs market, deal with it. I graduate in two years with a degree in computer science, I've accepted that to get a job, I might start out at a lower salary. A normal salary. What's wrong with a normal salary?

[Colonel Panik]

When was the last time you bought anything from Apple that was made in the USA? Not for years...

Apple could care less about people. They want money. If anything, I can see Apple as being more of a whorish monster than Microsoft if it ever gets to be the majority player in the computer/OS market.

I'm not sure that this is true. Yes, Apple is a company which needs profit to survive, but products like the iPod, Airport Express, etc. show that it's also made up of folks who create products because they want to see them in the world. It's also clear to me from the quality of the products and the attention to detail in the design that Apple actually care about the products they make.

I also think that a lot of the products that Apple's made have come from Job's philosophy. He once said that Apple wanted everybody to have and be able to use a computer. Hence the ease of use. While it's got it's negative moments, I do think that a lot of people respect Apple's motives as a company.

[Colonel Panik]

Continuing with the off topic talk...

I'm just curious as to how much you made right out of college? An average business major makes about 35k from what I'd gathered. I'm not saying your overpriced, I'm saying the comp-tech job market is bloated.

Also, have you considered renegotiating your contract for less money in favor of job security?



Wow, I trust employers about as much as I trust Microsoft to make good operating systems. I've never had a job where I could depend on the employer to put up with dents in profit in order to keep some decent employees in work.

The job market has changed. We need to get used to it. There is no such thing as job security today. You simply have to find oportunities, and charge like a bull in order to get as much money as possible from it. I have to constantly survey my markets for new opportunities and even consider fields that are way out of my expertise. I'm always having to learn new things.

I don't even expect that any European countries with their manditory social welfare contributions will be paying out pensions when I get to retirement age. They're already going about abolishing manditory retirement, and it won't be long until you can only retire if you have enough dosh stored away, that's if the employer keeps you employed.

[Counterfit]

Counterfit, hope to have a chance to meet you in person. Same here :D
Macworld Shuttle Bus Service Schedule from South Station to the BCEC

Monday July 12, 2004 7:30am – 10:00am and 5:30pm – 7:00pm
Tuesday July 13, 2004 7:30am – 7:00pm
Wednesday July 14, 2004 7:30am – 7:30pm
Thursday July 15, 2004 7:30am – 5:00pm
Excellent! I'll be doing that then :)

[SuperChuck]

I'm just curious as to how much you made right out of college? An average business major makes about 35k from what I'd gathered. I'm not saying your overpriced, I'm saying the comp-tech job market is bloated.

I run my own business now, but right out of college, I waited tables for three years. My current problem? Clients who want a complex e-commerce site designed for less than two grand because that's what my competition in India is offering. Please. If I lived in India and got paid U.S. dollars, I could work that cheaply, too.

As for craftmanship. I expect the same person in Taiwan to care the exact same amount as someone making the exact same product in America. We're talking unskilled labor slapping parts together. If it were true that American labor was superior in quality than foreign labor, Asian cars would fall apart after 5 years.

The difference is simple. What we're talking about in terms of Dell and Apple and IDG and whoever is a situation wherein your computer is not being built by an Apple manufacturing plant in Taiwan - it's being built by Random Generic Manufacturers, Inc. Do you really think the manager of some random company that built Dells last week and Apples next week cares about the quality of your computer? They care enough to keep the contract, but the love that goes into your $3000 Apple is no more than what went into your $600 Dell. THAT is the biggest problem. And then there's the whole issue of how fairly they treat the employees, do the employees make a living wage, etc.

In reality outsourcing sucks, but until there is a correction in the jobs market, deal with it. I graduate in two years with a degree in computer science, I've accepted that to get a job, I might start out at a lower salary. A normal salary. What's wrong with a normal salary?

You think a correction in the jobs market will fix this? Talk to somebody in auto manufacturing, or textiles after them, or furniture makers after them. Detroit never came back. Those textiles mills never came back. Furniture is not coming back. The only reason this is becoming a big issue today is because it is starting to eat into the pockets of the middle/upper-middle class. Nobody cared when it was the blue collar guys - for years and years. Now it's the kids of the privileged who are getting the pink slips and it makes the news every night.

AND...

I'd like to apologize for helping this thread to get so far off topic.

Moving to Boston was a bad idea. Apple not going was a worse idea. Let's just hope an East Coast show survives after this cycle of really bad ideas.

[TWinbrook46636]

In reality outsourcing sucks, but until there is a correction in the jobs market, deal with it. I graduate in two years with a degree in computer science, I've accepted that to get a job, I might start out at a lower salary. A normal salary. What's wrong with a normal salary?

If they can pay someone overseas $50 a week do you think you will even be able to get a job, much less a normal salary? It's easy to say "tough" when you have not been affected personally.

[TWinbrook46636]

So how has Macworld been so far? Any first hand reports? I haven't heard a peep. It's so strange for a Macworld to pass with no excitement whatsoever.

[mojohanna]

Well, I'm not sure if they are referring to IDG (the company that owns Macworld) or Apple itself. I know for a fact that Apple is outsourcing at an increasing rate, and I would wager that IDG is doing the same.

I really think Apple is messing up by jumping on the outsourcing bandwagon. The other guys do it so they can sell their junky peecees for 500 bucks, but Apple doesn't play that game. I think a much better strategy would be to keep the jobs in the US and use it as a selling point: "You pay a little more for our products because we pay American workers to assemble and service them."

Outsourcing is becoming a bigger and bigger deal every day, and I imagine that before long, it will start to be a major factor in people's purchasing decisions here in the US.



When was the last time you looked under you mouse/keyboard or inside your computer? I can't recall the last time I saw "Made in USA" Everything is "Designed by Apple in California" and assembled in Malaysia or somewhere else other than in the US. I wouldn't be suprised to learn that even going back to the orginal Mac, they weren't assembled here.

[puckhead193]

and i'm about 20 mins from boston for the next 3 weeks, maybe.....

[JGowan]

I'm very much looking froward to MacWorld Boston. Apple should feel ashamed for not participating.Bullcrap. Apple doesn't owe anything to MacWorld. MW knew full well what would happen (or not happen as it were) if they moved the conference to Boston. Apple wants it in the Big Apple. Just give them what they want. They gambled and snubbed their nose at Apple's demand... now they are paying for being arrogant to think that they could do it without the very company that the conference is supposed to be about.

[ClimbingTheLog]

I think you're missing (or choosing to ignore) Apple's point.

NYC is as much a city of the world as it is a city of the US. It is a global player that attracts global attention like no other city in the US. It is also the communications capital of the US. If you want every major publication to attend an event, you hold it in NYC.

I don't think Apple was blind to the value Macworld could have for them in Boston, they just knew that it was less valuable than NYC, and so they used the best ammo they had to get it moved back.


I think you summarize Apple's position perfectly. Apple Loved NYC. It was very cheap advertising for them.

It's the vendors and the customers who were tired of getting sodomized by teamsters and NYC prices. I myself put in a $600 expense report to do 2 days at MacWorld NY last time I went. I can do it for half of that in Boston. And the last 5 MW Bostons I attended were jam-packed and massive, taking up two convention centers. IDG is doing the right thing for everybody but Apple.

Let me tell you a dirty little secret - Macworld has contracted massively since it moved to NYC. It used to be monsterous in Boston. This year it's supposed to be a whimper, but I'm going to show my support for a good town. The contraction of the expo is due two things: a) the contraction of the Mac market and b) the Internet. Apple is to blame for a) and trade shows are just less important with all the mac websites and PDF downloads.

So, Apple's argument is that I should pay $300 to subsidize their advertising budget. No thanks. That's their expense, not mine. A majority of Apple's users do not live and work in the NYC area. It just so happens that many of their cash-replete customers are there so it works out nicely for their sales organization. So what if 50,000 users have to pony up an extra $300? That $1.5 M isn't costing Apple anything.

It's even worse for the vendors. Read on:
http://www.pbsource.com/MacinThoughts/features/NYCosts.shtml
If a vendor can't afford to reach its audience, how can it survive?

So here we have a small army of loyal Apple users gathering to talk about Apple's products and Apple is snubbing them. Let me be clear - Apple isn't snubbing IDG, it's snubbing its users. The big cross-country F.U.. Steve Jobs is being a 6-year-old, taking his ball and going home. Way to build that marketshare back up. If I hadn't sold my stock when WWDC turned out to be a dud I'd be really upset about his purposeful sabotage of customer relations.

[ethernet76]

If they can pay someone overseas $50 a week do you think you will even be able to get a job, much less a normal salary? It's easy to say "tough" when you have not been affected personally.

I also worry about outsourcing of jobs too. I'm a computer science student set to graduate in two or so years. I imagine the job market in two years will be worse than the one we're currently living in.

I feel bad for you, but you're an econmic causality. A causality of basic import/export economics.

Shoes, clothes, cars, all went the way of foreign labor. What made you believe your tech job was invincible?

[ethernet76]

I run my own business now, but right out of college, I waited tables for three years. My current problem? Clients who want a complex e-commerce site designed for less than two grand because that's what my competition in India is offering. Please. If I lived in India and got paid U.S. dollars, I could work that cheaply, too.

Maybe you've never been to India. I haven't. I know cost of living is a lot lower there because they don't do things like educate the poor, or have running water in a lot of places.


You think a correction in the jobs market will fix this? Talk to somebody in auto manufacturing, or textiles after them, or furniture makers after them. Detroit never came back. Those textiles mills never came back. Furniture is not coming back. The only reason this is becoming a big issue today is because it is starting to eat into the pockets of the middle/upper-middle class. Nobody cared when it was the blue collar guys - for years and years. Now it's the kids of the privileged who are getting the pink slips and it makes the news every night.


The auto industry never made a comeback because domestic car sales were sliding because America put out ****e for years on end assuming people would buy American. Textiles never made a comeback because no one wants to make clothes. The CEO of Nike was right in "Downsize this!". I do not know a single American who would want to manufacture clothes for a living. Honestly, it's a poor existance. But in places like Honduras, people eat those jobs up because it is either that or die. For your last arguement you should have choosen steel.

I can't speak from personal experience about Flint, or what happened to the auto industry because I was four when it happened. I'd assume people did care back then, but what can you really do to protect the American labor market? Pass illegal tariffs only to have them shot down by the WTO months later?

Americans need to face the fact they cannot cheaply produce goods in quanity like other countries. People should have seen this coming. They took the unskilled market, why did you think the skilled market was protected? They have colleges all over the world, even in the poor countries, and C in India is the same as C in the US.

[mwpeters8182]

The auto industry is not a perfect example in this case either. Last time I checked, my Toyota was built in America. So I guess, I technically bought an American built car, even though It's a much better designed Japanese car. As far as the outsourcing of tech support to India goes, I would be surpriesed if that ended up slowing down, as (at least where I work) it provides absolutely ineffective tech support, as you are no longer talking to people who really know the system well.

Back on Topic - has anyone here gone to MacWorld? If so, how was it?

[jamka]

So how has Macworld been so far? Any first hand reports? I haven't heard a peep. It's so strange for a Macworld to pass with no excitement whatsoever.

Same here, I'd like to know how it is. Anything interesting there? Was it worth going to? Any cool freebies?

[wdlove]

Bullcrap. Apple doesn't owe anything to MacWorld. MW knew full well what would happen (or not happen as it were) if they moved the conference to Boston. Apple wants it in the Big Apple. Just give them what they want. They gambled and snubbed their nose at Apple's demand... now they are paying for being arrogant to think that they could do it without the very company that the conference is supposed to be about.

They do owe something to their customers. Apple doesn't just have customers in California and Paris.

I think that ClimbingTheLog stated the case very well for returning to Boston was a good idea. With success then Apple will almost have to follow.

[cspace]

i went today, it wasn't too bad. the new convention center is nice...not a ton of exhibitors, but the berklee booth was interesting. oh, and the new cinema displays are really nice.

[meredyth]

Well I'm writing this from one of the wireless lounges and despite all the problems, it's a really good show.

One of the more neat things I learned is that Lego (mindstorms) now fully supports OSX!

[judian]

Macworld exhibits today...JUST PLAIN PATHETIC....
Hope no one paid to enter! There was nothing there!!!!!!!

It's not the place--Boston tho dismal today is a great place for the show with a beautiful Convention center and city...sure beats steamy NYC in summer.

I am very sorry I wasted my time.





:mad: :( :confused: :eek:

[MacKenzie999]

So how has Macworld been so far? Any first hand reports? I haven't heard a peep. It's so strange for a Macworld to pass with no excitement whatsoever.

Well, first I'd like to thank the guy who mentioned Borders was giving out free passes, because if I paid to go to this steaming pile of expo I'd be pretty angry right now.

I live in Boston and defended the idea of it still being an ok event, I figured it would at least be a good selection of vendors, but...bleargh. Terrible.

Disclaimer: if I were a musician into midi there was some intrersting looking stuff, but that's not my bag baby.

[wdlove]

The above posts are certainly very disheartening. On top of the fact my wife just re-checked the schedule, David Pogue's Keynote was today. Had thought is was on Wednesday. His talk was the main item that I was looking forward to seeing. I'm going to try to be optimistic and hope for the best. Also looking forward to meeting some contacted member.

[wdlove]

Convention facility draws praise, quibbles

The lights went on, the escalators went up and down, and the wireless Internet access worked as it was supposed to.

Well, mostly.

The first convention-goers to use the Boston Convention & Exhibition Center were in full force yesterday, as the Macworld Conference & Expo opened its trade show floor and employees of German software developer SAP darted in and out of meeting rooms during the company's sales meeting at the new, $800 million South Boston facility. Attendees at both events gave the huge new center an overall thumbs up, saying they were impressed with the building's size, architecture, and layout and with amenities such as free wireless Internet access and cellphone service that rarely went dead, even when calls were made from deep in the bowels of the center.

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2004/07/14/convention_facility_draws_praise_quibbles/

I'm on my way now to take a first hand look at MacWorld Boston.

[~Shard~]

Convention facility draws praise, quibbles

The lights went on, the escalators went up and down, and the wireless Internet access worked as it was supposed to.

Well, mostly.

The first convention-goers to use the Boston Convention & Exhibition Center were in full force yesterday, as the Macworld Conference & Expo opened its trade show floor and employees of German software developer SAP darted in and out of meeting rooms during the company's sales meeting at the new, $800 million South Boston facility. Attendees at both events gave the huge new center an overall thumbs up, saying they were impressed with the building's size, architecture, and layout and with amenities such as free wireless Internet access and cellphone service that rarely went dead, even when calls were made from deep in the bowels of the center.

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2004/07/14/convention_facility_draws_praise_quibbles/

I'm on my way now to take a first hand look at MacWorld Boston.

Thanks for the info - keep us posted on anything interesting that you come across!

[McD]

Along with Apple being a no show other big vendors like Macromedia and Adobe were absent. They said “oh boy we can finally fit MacWorld in Boston.” I think this year you could fit more vendors into a high school gym. The convention center has three sections which can be also subdivided. Anorexic MacWorld only fills half a section and can't even fill that completely! Vendors use less than 1/6th the floor space. MacWorld definitely was not worth the $245 I spent on a users conference pass.

[Wonder Boy]

i went to my first macworld today and i thought it was great. i didn't know what i was getting, and was very surprised. i bought a m-audio oxygen 8 midi keyboard, a synth pack, and an ipod jogging thing (the speck isport to be exact). I had a lot of fun and would definetly go back.

[wdlove]

My wife and I had a good time today at the new Boston Convention Center, it's awesome. Got to meet a couple of people that I know on the internet. When to a talk with David Pogue, it was great to actually getting to meet him. My wife took a picture of us together. He talked about future technology, that Blue Tooth and wireless are here to stay. Flat screens are here to stay, the death of the CRT is near. The other interesting item was a feature that he did for CBS on touch screen voting machines. All the Pro's and Con's. A short time to come up with a new system. Thinks the November elections should be very interesting. With so many checks and balances, we can have confidence in the results.

[wdlove]

Today was another awesome day at MacWorld Boston, now sad that it's over. These kinds of things always go so quickly. The attendees that my wife and I spoke with said that they had a great time. They plan to return next year. The vendors were also very pleased, they were do 10% more business than anticipated. Seems to me that the doubters spoke to soon. This was a great rebuilding year. The time may come that Steve will be ashamed not to attend. An awful lot planned to E.Mail Steve personally.

Had an awesome time today. Had two classes with David Pogue. In the first class, I was a costar in a movie that he made. Ended up being a good iPod commercial. If all works out may be able to post the short here.

[ClimbingTheLog]

I drove down to Boston today for the show and I'm glad I went. I spoke to many nice vendors who were hawking many wares I hadn't heard of before, and I am something of a Mac news junkie.

It was a small show, to be sure, but I picked up several leads and contacts and got some business done I'd been unable to accomplish on the phone/e-mail with a few vendors.

It was very disappointing to see Apple missing. Here a very large group of people were gathering in support of their products and they couldn't even be bothered to send a few people. They'll have more people at SIGGRAPH this year than MacWorld Boston. Let there be no doubt, we're just pawns in Apple's game, not appreciated cusomers.

[nmk]

Look, outsourcing is simply the result of the world becoming a global economy. I find it amusing that for years the Americans have been breathing down everyones throat about GATT, trying to push for the elimination of trade tariffs and subsidies. Its ok when the international economy bends over for the Americans, but it's not ok when the same global economy has a negative impact on you. GET OVER IT.

The truth is simple. Americans are overpaid and underqualified. You can get a postgraduate, with five years of experience as a sys. admin running a large network, for the equivalent of $500/month. This guy will be more qualified than someone making six times as much in America. So why the hell should American companies (or any company) not take advantage of that.

These Malaysian/Taiwanese manufacturing companies you're talking about. They've been in this business for more than a decade now. All your equipment, from low end consumer machines to state of the art Powerbooks, are manufactured there. They can take just about any technical schematic and turn it into a working product. Most eastern manufacturing facilities will offer various qualities depending on how much the client is willing to pay. Its well known that the Chinese offer four or five levels of quality for many of their manufactured goods. So no, everything is not treated the same. Your Powerbook will get precedence over a $300 Dell provided Apple is willing to pay the money.

By the way, last time I checked, 40% of Apples sales were international. That means that we, non Americans, are contributing heavily to Apples revenue. So why the hell do they owe Americans some sort of special treatment. Americans should learn to practice what they preach. You wanted a global economy, well you've got one.

[iMeowbot]

Look, outsourcing is simply the result of the world becoming a global economy. I find it amusing that for years the Americans have been breathing down everyones throats about GATT, trying to push for the elimination of trade tariffs and subsidies. Its ok when the international economy bends over for the Americans, but it's not ok when the same global economy has a negative impact on you. GET OVER IT.
It would be a good idea not to confuse the wants of business interests with those of regular people. There was lots of domestic opposition to getting too loose on trade, for fear of exactly what is now happening. It may well be that, for example, the Seattle GATT riots weren't reported internationally.

[blissed]

I just love it when I have to speak to someone in India who doesn't understand English better than a 6 year old and is reading from a scripted piece of paper in front of them. That sucks. :(

[nmk]

Actually, most people that work in call centers speak English quite well. Perhaps your own language skills are weak.

[wdlove]

Actually, most people that work in call centers speak English quite well. Perhaps your own language skills are weak.

Actually on the call centers in English, I'm sure that they must bee able to speak English. My experience was more of a cultural problem. They didn't understand something that a native born American would.

[ClimbingTheLog]

The truth is simple. Americans are overpaid and underqualified. You can get a postgraduate, with five years of experience as a sys. admin running a large network, for the equivalent of $500/month. This guy will be more qualified than someone making six times as much in America. So why the hell should American companies (or any company) not take advantage of that.

We have lots of laws governing how people are treated in the US.

We don't have child labor, we don't have towns of people dying of famine and preventable disease, we have OSHA requirements, everybody can get clean water to drink, we take care of our old and disabled, building codes are very strict, etc.

We think these are basic human rights. But it costs money. So everybody gives the government (willingly or not) a big chunk of money. I think I gave the government $25000 last year if you add it all up. That's enough to pay two full time engineers out of India - just on the money I paid in taxes. And the money has to come from somewhere - everybody jacks up their prices to cover the tax costs. That's why America's cost of living is so high.

Not every country shares our values. Indians die from starvation, burning buildings, and contaminated water. The government doesn't prevent it. The government doesn't spend money preventing it. The government doesn't collect taxes to prevent it.

Asian children sew our goods that we buy at Walmart or the Foot Locker. We'd never allow an American child to do that job, but we make excuses as to why it's OK for more yellow children to do that instead of going to school.

Either these rights are human rights or they're not - there's no such thing as god-given American rights.

So hiring an Indian is just a way to avoid paying these taxes. It's more akin to having poorly-kept slaves at a great distance than it is to improving the global economy.

[nmk]

For one, its nothing like having slaves. Most Indian tech workers are very well paid by Indian standards. In most countries (like India) outsourcing has led to a tremendous growth in the economy. So if you are really so concerned about human values, maybe you should give up some of your money to help other countries achieve the same level of social welfare that you have. I can assure you that if India had a GDP of 6 trillion dollars, they would also do something about the plight of their people (and no, Americans DO NOT care more about their people than the rest of the world).

Anyway, the point I was making had nothing to do with morals. I was simply saying that Americans are overpaid and underqualified. Companies are now multinational. They don't care about America, all they care about is their shareholders. They are going to do what they can to maximize their profits.