People freely downloading Tiger 10.4

[jimsowden]

I am not alone in the opinion that people should not be downloading tiger for their own personal use. The only people that should have it are developers, because they pay for it and Apple legally lets them use it. Its not for fun, and if you do download it, don't expect me or any others on this board to help you get your system up and running. I'm sure people will respond the this with "well, i'm going to buy it anyway so its not like i'm stealing it" or "who does it hurt?". The Fact of the matter is that it against the license of the software, and posting something that alludes to an illegal action is against forum rules.

[Elan0204]

However, I don't think it is fair to assume that just because someone is asking questions about Tiger that they have an illegal copy. Unless the person comes right out and says they downloaded or otherwise illegally obtained Tiger, they deserve the benefit of the doubt. I think taking an "innocent until proven guilty," approach is the best way to handle the situation.

And, no, I do NOT have a copy of Tiger, and won't until I buy it sometime in 2005 (i.e. after it's released), or until I decide to become a developer and buy a copy from ADC.

[Ninja_Turtle]

However, I don't think it is fair to assume that just because someone is asking questions about Tiger that they have an illegal copy. Unless the person comes right out and says they downloaded or otherwise illegally obtained Tiger, they deserve the benefit of the doubt. I think taking an "innocent until proven guilty," approach is the best way to handle the situation.

And, no, I do NOT have a copy of Tiger, and won't until I buy it sometime in 2005 (i.e. after it's released), or until I decide to become a developer and buy a copy from ADC.

dang...i was going to post this up...well i couldnt've said it better myself :)

[Dr. Dastardly]

I personally don't understand why anyone in there right mind would load a beta test version of an OS on their home computer if they were not a developer or a pro.

Except for the stupidist reason of all... Bragging rights. :rolleyes:

[bousozoku]

All that is true but it really bothers me later when they start whining about all the problems they have.

Apple needs beta testers who can actually provide useful feedback and can follow rules.

[Duff-Man]

However, I don't think it is fair to assume that just because someone is asking questions about Tiger that they have an illegal copy. Unless the person comes right out and says they downloaded or otherwise illegally obtained Tiger, they deserve the benefit of the doubt. I think taking an "innocent until proven guilty," approach is the best way to handle the situation.Duff-Man says....I think the majority of *legitimate* developers who obtained their copies through proper channels know better than to post in open forums asking for help with it (note I said majority...there are always those few that can't respect the agreements they sign - probably the same ones that leak the software)....oh yeah!

[Mr Poop E Pantz]

I would think a developer would know enough about computers and this operating system that they wouldn't need to ask dumb questions. A developer that asks if he should back up important documents before installing a pre-release of an OS should get a new job fast.

[Elan0204]

Duff-Man says....I think the majority of *legitimate* developers who obtained their copies through proper channels know better than to post in open forums asking for help with it (note I said majority...there are always those few that can't respect the agreements they sign - probably the same ones that leak the software)....oh yeah!

There are also a number of people here who have posted their impressions of Tiger, and have answered questions not addressed during the keynote. Do you think that all of those people obtained Tiger through illegitimate means?

[Duff-Man]

There are also a number of people here who have posted their impressions of Tiger, and have answered questions not addressed during the keynote. Do you think that all of those people obtained Tiger through illegitimate means?Duff-Man says....I guess you missed the two instances in my post where I said *majority*....oh yeah!

[sushi]

All that is true but it really bothers me later when they start whining about all the problems they have.

Apple needs beta testers who can actually provide useful feedback and can follow rules.
Well Put! (Having been a beta tester before)

Sushi

[sushi]

I would think a developer would know enough about computers and this operating system that they wouldn't need to ask dumb questions.
Good Point!

A developer that asks if he should back up important documents before installing a pre-release of an OS should get a new job fast.
Agree!

Sushi

[cb911]

aaarrrgghhhhh!!! what th....!!!! and you felt that you had to make a whole thread about the subject? :rolleyes:

well if someone asks a question about Tiger, i'm going to answer it to the best of my ability, and everyone else should as well.

as for people with 'illegal' copies of Tiger, they should just shut up about it, what people don't know won't hurt them. and it is getting annoying seeing obvious n00bs and other who've DL'd Tiger asking the most basic and stupid questions.

and about actually DL'ing Tiger... you can't stop it, so what's the point of this thread? are you planning to do something about it?

most likely the people who are keen on DL'ing Tiger also have a DL'd copy of Panther running on their systems, as well as copies of PhotoShop, After Effects, Maya, Cinema4D, LightWave, Macromedia Studio 2004, XIII, Tron 2.0, UT2004, Battlefield 1942, Warcraft III etc. and they probably don't care either. so just get over it. it's going to happen and you can't stop it. but i'll join you in flaming n00bs that keep asking stupid questions. http://www.mugget.com/web_images/twisted.gif

[jimsowden]

Notice how I said how the question alludes to an illegal copy. Like, if he is asking how to *ahem* install the preview on his ibook without deleting all his data that is obviously not a developer, and someone who optained it through bit torrent. Now, if someone asks how h.264 improves upon h.263, they in no way implied they had tiger, so said question would be admissable.

[ethernet76]

Let's say I jump on irc and find myself a nice beta rip of tiger. I install it on my harddrive to see what it's like.

Where is the harm? I'm not hurting Apple's profit. If I like it there is a better chance I'll buy it when it becomes available.

People who upgrade to betas aren't looking for performance boosts. They're just curious what new technology is out there.

Case in point. My two-year-old iMac has 10.2.8 on it. My new powerbook however is running 10.3.3. When Panther was showcased they said 150 new features and claimed it to be a major upgrade. However, when I got my Powerbook I have to admit I was kind of dissapointed. Expose was and still is great, but I don't use it, and other than a slight performance increase there is no reason to upgrade to Panther.

There would have been no way for me to tell this had I not bought a new powerbook, and had I gone out and bought it I would have found myself 150 pooer, and a sorely dissapointed person.

There is a good chance that when I get my Pbook back I will visit IRC find a beta and install it on my harddrive to see what those widgets are like. If I find I like it well enough I will go buy it. If not, I will delete it and move on.

I don't understand the blatent dismissal of people downloading the beta. Sure it's illegal, but so are a lot of things, and as with all actions you must look at intent before condemning a person. The fact is you have offered no arguements for why I shouldn't download it. I have not harmed anyone's interest.

I'm curious to hear your stance on downloading pre-releases of records as what happened to Radiohead with Hail to the Theif

[jimsowden]

Bad things happen even with the best of intent. The fact of the matter is, your breaking the law. By your logic why not use pot, I'm not intending to hurt anybody. There is a reason apple hasn't put a beta for us all to download and play with on their site. Because, in contradiction to what you said, people won't buy tiger. They do loose money because of illegal downloads. As for the pre-release records, I think its wrong, but don't take issue with it because I don't stay informed on it. Everything is done for a reason at Apple.

[Duff-Man]

Duff-Man says....all those arguments have been done to death in some of the other countless piracy threads. There is a fine line as to how much leaking and piracy Apple will tolerate. If too many beta's and developer copies keep leaking, sooner or later they will tighten up the developer program, which may mean less thorough testing and more waiting for updates to programs when a new version of the OSS is released. As for pirating of the released version (not really the topic of this thread but....) if that gets really out of hand too you may eventually see serialized versions or heaven forbid M$-style "activation schemes" and we certainly don't want that. Besides...as jimsowden says...it is a violation of an agreement......oh yeah!

[bousozoku]

Bad things happen even with the best of intent. The fact of the matter is, your breaking the law. By your logic why not use pot, I'm not intending to hurt anybody. There is a reason apple hasn't put a beta for us all to download and play with on their site. Because, in contradiction to what you said, people won't buy tiger. They do loose money because of illegal downloads. As for the pre-release records, I think its wrong, but don't take issue with it because I don't stay informed on it. Everything is done for a reason at Apple.

Well, there are plenty of people who have accidents while DUI and they generally aren't prosecuted or end up with leniency because of a lack of intent to harm. I'm not saying it's right, but there are a lot of grey areas, esp. in the U.S.A.

I'm against illegal downloads but to say that they lose money on beta tests is inaccurate--they don't. They probably receive way too much hate mail, though, because something isn't right. That costs money, but it's not as if they were selling the beta release.

[Elan0204]

Duff-Man says....I guess you missed the two instances in my post where I said *majority*....oh yeah!

Nope, I saw them. However your post was addressing a developer asking for help. I guess you missed that my post was about the sharing of experiences and the answering of other's questions about Tiger. There is a big difference between someone asking for help with Tiger, and someone simply sharing their experience with others.

[Duff-Man]

Nope, I saw them. However your post was addressing a developer asking for help. I guess you missed that my post was about the sharing of experiences and the answering of other's questions about Tiger. There is a big difference between someone asking for help with Tiger, and someone simply sharing their experience with others.Duff-Man says...well, my comments still stand. I do not have Tiger (I am not a developer, nor a pirate) but I would be very very very surprised if the agreement you need to click "ok" to during the install does not have some kind of non-disclosure clause (someone correct me if I am wrong) and therefore they should not be posting about it here...and I believe the majority of legit developers respect that agreement....oh yeah!

[jimsowden]

I actually wanted tiger when it first came out, and i actuall posted a topic to find a torrernt. Now i know i'm a hipocrit, but I think its wrong. I really can't do anything to stop people posting and downloading it, but i just thought I would start this thread to get my opinion out there, and to see what other people thought.

[cb911]

he he. you posted here on MR a thread about finding a Tiger torrent? :p i wish i had seen that...

anyway, with all of these people trying to find where to get Tiger, i wouldn't tell them or help them at all if they didnt' know where to go for such things. the last thing that places like that need are people just coming along to leech and make a hassle for everyone else.

[iChan]

I personally don't understand why anyone in there right mind would load a beta test version of an OS on their home computer if they were not a developer or a pro.

Except for the stupidist reason of all... Bragging rights. :rolleyes:

man, you're right... it's all about the bragging rights

[mowogg]

Anybody stoopid enough to load a bootleg copy of a very early OS upgrade on a mission-critical machine deserves to have their data hosed.
I don't care particularly if Tiger gets bootlegged in its beta stage, I mean it's not like someone is actually going to be able to use it on an ongoing basis, but they shouldn't become indignant that it has kludged their system and perhaps given them a social disease.
See, life really is fair!

[iJon]

i agree with most. it is illeagal, but so is speeding and other things that we usually do. no that doesn't make it right, but if you do download tiger people just shouldn't talk about. if you have trouble just realize you are SOL or take the time to learn your problem. and when i say don't let people know, that mainly is for the people who download it and have problems holding the c key down and get lost.

iJon

[dermeister]

The only reason I haven't tried it is that I have no system to try it on. Otherwise I would have given it a shot. Point is, it is a beta release... Meaning no matter who downloads and tries it, it'l SYSTEMATICALLY be replaced by the time Apple ships the final version by either a purshased legal copy, or a downloaded copy of the final. I think the "it's nor hurting anyone" defense is actually pretty sound since it's a beta (they aren't making money on it in any case, and as stated earlier what matters is when it's released).

As for the illegality -- if you have EVER J-walked in your life, you're a HYPOCRITE. What, you say J-walking isn't a big deal? What we're talking about is just as minor, if not less -- nobody can risk being hit by a car, or having their life ruined.

There is no intent to harm, and NOBODY IS HARMED. Apple CAN'T make money off this beta anyways, and it WON'T stay on people's HDs for long before being replaced (at which point you CAN say people downloading it are jerks and not look like a whiner).

Apple won't introduce a serial number system because:
1) It's a pain in the ass for everybody.
2) They are the single distributor of OSX capable machines, hence everybody buys a copy per default, and even if some "steal" a few versions between machine upgrades, Apple does not depend on boxed OSX sales... To them its irrelevant - the tiny fraction of "pirated copies" among the tiny fraction of boxed sales is probably laughable.
3) They appreciate like the hype to some extent.

These people don't care what you think, and I don't see why you made a thread to rant about them.

[rendezvouscp]

Apple is very against pirating (duh...), but I'm glad that they haven't used serial numbers yet. It is a pain to go through for everybody. But, I see why other companies have. According to Apple, over 11 billion dollars are lost each year due to piracy. That number has gone down to only 1 billion after the introduction of the iTMS ;).
–Chase

[mowogg]

There is no intent to harm, and NOBODY IS HARMED. Apple CAN'T make money off this beta anyways, and it WON'T stay on people's HDs for long before being replaced (at which point you CAN say people downloading it are jerks and not look like a whiner).


Apple can get harmed. By allowing a wider release of beta software, competitors have a better opportunity to get a hold of it and gain competitive advantage.

Everybody ought to just keep it in their pants. This is the bane of broadband.

[iJon]

Apple can get harmed. By allowing a wider release of beta software, competitors have a better opportunity to get a hold of it and gain competitive advantage.

Everybody ought to just keep it in their pants. This is the bane of broadband.
i doubt its that. if apple prizes their technology it should be copyrighted anyways. i feel the main reason of a closed beta is preventing idiots installing it, screwing up their computer, calling apple support, and eventually being dissapointed with apple cause of their software. OS X public beta was a rare occasion.

iJon

[dethl]

I'm a developer and I haven't downloaded Tiger. I don't really see a need to do that until it actually releases. That and the fact my iBook g3/900 won't handle core image/video well at all (needs a beefier graphics card) as well as from what I have heard, Tiger is a slow pain in the neck beta release right now.

I'll wait till I get a G5 or Tiger becomes much faster. Most likely...I'll be buying a dual 3 ghz G5 along with Tiger, and having much fun learning all the new programming stuff with it.

[iJon]

I'm a developer and I haven't downloaded Tiger. I don't really see a need to do that until it actually releases. That and the fact my iBook g3/900 won't handle core image/video well at all (needs a beefier graphics card) as well as from what I have heard, Tiger is a slow pain in the neck beta release right now.

I'll wait till I get a G5 or Tiger becomes much faster. Most likely...I'll be buying a dual 3 ghz G5 along with Tiger, and having much fun learning all the new programming stuff with it. i think tiger is optimized for the g5 alot in its stage. its almost as fast or if not faster from what i've "read."

iJon

[cb911]

...competitors have a better opportunity to get a hold of it and gain competitive advantage.

he he. haven't you heard of corporate espionage? ;) if another company wanted info about Tiger they'd get it. and the fact that since this was freely distributed at WWDC must tell you that there isnt' all that much 'special' stuff in this preview. as someone has mentioned before it's not really a beta, probably alpha or pre-alpha.

[edesignuk]

I am not alone in the opinion that people should not be downloading tiger for their own personal use. The only people that should have it are developers, because they pay for it and Apple legally lets them use it. Its not for fun, and if you do download it, don't expect me or any others on this board to help you get your system up and running. I'm sure people will respond the this with "well, i'm going to buy it anyway so its not like i'm stealing it" or "who does it hurt?". The Fact of the matter is that it against the license of the software, and posting something that alludes to an illegal action is against forum rules.I can't even be bothered to respond to this moral high ground **** properly, so I'll just say this...
http://upload.yo-momma.net/uploads/macros/i_care_billgates.jpg

[cb911]

here here. if i'd had that picture i probably wouldn't have spent so much time with this (and other threads).

mind if i borrow it? :D

[sockeatingdryer]

However, I don't think it is fair to assume that just because someone is asking questions about Tiger that they have an illegal copy. Unless the person comes right out and says they downloaded or otherwise illegally obtained Tiger, they deserve the benefit of the doubt. I think taking an "innocent until proven guilty," approach is the best way to handle the situation.

And, no, I do NOT have a copy of Tiger, and won't until I buy it sometime in 2005 (i.e. after it's released), or until I decide to become a developer and buy a copy from ADC.

I second that. I even posted a comment on that one time because 'developers' get all uppity over the fact that they have an advance copy of Tiger. And by that, of course, they know Steve Jobs by name!
Alot of people who do not have Tiger beta just have questions about the beta and how it works. But God knows that until they've signed it in blood that they have not gotten a taste of the developer kool-aid no one answers a question; they just fill up an empty thread with "OMG! YOU UZED BT!!1!!!111ONE N0O0B!!!! UR SO COMMON!!111!1!!one!!!1!"

[konaforever]

This is a little off topic, but I had to comment.

This analogy doesn't quite work. There really isn't any reason pot shouldn't be legal. It's no worse than smoking, IMHO. It doesn't harm anyone, but the user. It's their own free will. What do you care if I smoke pot?

Bad things happen even with the best of intent. The fact of the matter is, your breaking the law. By your logic why not use pot, I'm not intending to hurt anybody.

[ingenious]

Let's say I jump on irc and find myself a nice beta rip of tiger. I install it on my harddrive to see what it's like.

Where is the harm? I'm not hurting Apple's profit. If I like it there is a better chance I'll buy it when it becomes available.


Here's some harm: What if you "conveniently" (spelling?) left the DL'd copy on there and didn't buy a real one. Or the plain fact that it's stealing because you didn't pay for a ticket to WWDC. and that is hurting apple.


People who upgrade to betas aren't looking for performance boosts. They're just curious what new technology is out there.


Be patient or try it out in an apple store when it comes out.


Case in point. My two-year-old iMac has 10.2.8 on it. My new powerbook however is running 10.3.3. When Panther was showcased they said 150 new features and claimed it to be a major upgrade. However, when I got my Powerbook I have to admit I was kind of dissapointed. Expose was and still is great, but I don't use it, and other than a slight performance increase there is no reason to upgrade to Panther.

There would have been no way for me to tell this had I not bought a new powerbook, and had I gone out and bought it I would have found myself 150 pooer, and a sorely dissapointed person.

You could've tried it out in an apple store or other retailer.


There is a good chance that when I get my Pbook back I will visit IRC find a beta and install it on my harddrive to see what those widgets are like. If I find I like it well enough I will go buy it. If not, I will delete it and move on.

I don't understand the blatent dismissal of people downloading the beta. Sure it's illegal, but so are a lot of things, and as with all actions you must look at intent before condemning a person. The fact is you have offered no arguements for why I shouldn't download it. I have not harmed anyone's interest.

I'm curious to hear your stance on downloading pre-releases of records as what happened to Radiohead with Hail to the Theif

Stealing is wrong. It's common law. If you download it, you're adding the the piracy problem. You may be the last straw that makes apple put numbers and activation and such on the their products. Think of others.

[jsw]

Note: I refer to the current released version of Tiger as a "beta", although of course it's too early to call it that. I just use the term to indicate that it's pre-release.

Apple makes the vast majority of its money from hardware, not software. I don't think Steve Jobs is particularly concerned that people are downloading copies of a beta which was handed out by the thousands last month. I assume that Apple knew this would happen. I don't buy arguments that the downloading of an OS beta will cost Apple, or hurt Apple. I think that people who are content with a beta-quality OS that regularly trashes their data probably aren't the kind of people who would have bought the released version anyway. Not only that, but Apple is assured that these "criminals" have already paid them, since the OS can only be run on a Mac.

Do I think that it's right to steal a released version of the OS? No. Do I think it's right to download a beta? Well, not really. But I don't think it's horribly wrong, either. People just want to play with it, and most can't pony up the $500 plus to get into the club.

I don't have it. I don't want it. I'll wait for the release, thank you very much. But I have nothing against those who download it to play with it. In fact, I'd hope that Apple would accept input from anyone brave enough to actually install the current version.

On the other hand, I feel no pity whatsoever for anyone who installs it and loses any data. To install it is to accept that risk. To ask if it's risky to install it only tags you as someone who shouldn't install it. If it weren't risky, it'd be released software. Well, even then, there's some risk, but it's negligible. :)

I think it's actually kind of nice that people are playing with it. I don't think Apple's too worried about it. I think most of the legal issues when accepting the install are probably to protect them in case it nukes your system.

[jsw]

Apple can get harmed. By allowing a wider release of beta software, competitors have a better opportunity to get a hold of it and gain competitive advantage.
As others have noted, competitors could legally get the software by spending $500 to join ADC. I'm thinking that Apple's competitors - people writing OSs for sale - might be able to come up with that sort of cash. Just maybe.
Everybody ought to just keep it in their pants. This is the bane of broadband.
I'm confused. How does keeping a downloaded copy of Tiger in their pants help anyone? Except, perhaps, that it'd allow them to say "hey baby, there's a Tiger in my pants", which, let's be honest, probably wouldn't help them out very much at all, although the DVD might act as some sort of protection from the potential knee to that area after using the aforementioned line. I'm also confused as to how broadband is either helping or hindering me from keeping "it" in my pants.

[cb911]

Be patient or try it out in an apple store when it comes out.


heh heh. :D yeah right, people are just going to be patient.

[mkaake]

As for the illegality -- if you have EVER J-walked in your life, you're a HYPOCRITE.

well i suppose there's a good chance that most of us in here have broken the law at some point in our lives, but i'm not really sure why you think that's an awesome reason to keep breaking the law.

so how about i go out and kill someone, and say - well geeee... i've sped before, so its alright. and if you have a problem with that, you're a hypocrite.

or how about we try to live a moral life (what? morality? what's that?) and abide by the law. or how about, if a person can't stand to actually read and agree to the license agreement, they don't agree to it. very simple.

oh, that's right. i forgot. you're not hurting anyone (you think), so it's okay anyway.

*blah*

what's happening to our culture? when we no longer care about right and wrong, except how we see it through our own eyes?


Sure it's illegal
<snip>
The fact is you have offered no arguements for why I shouldn't download it.


that sounded like a pretty good reason to me... :rolleyes:

does anyone else get tired of people dismissing the law when they feel like it?

*sigh* :(

[edesignuk]

Here's some harm: What if you "conveniently" (spelling?) left the DL'd copy on there and didn't buy a real one. Or the plain fact that it's stealing because you didn't pay for a ticket to WWDC. and that is hurting apple.You'd have to be completely retarded to have a alpha/beta OS as your primary OS, it just wouldn't happen. That is the worst argument ever!

[edesignuk]

so how about i go out and kill someone, and say - well geeee... i've sped before, so its alright. and if you have a problem with that, you're a hypocrite.Please tell me you're not so stupid that you just compared killing someone to downloading a piece of software??? :eek: :rolleyes:

[stevehaslip]

I think that what everyone has to realise is that by downloading tiger you are potentially damaging apple and the whole apple experience. Alot of people find it refreshing when they switch they dont have to worry about activation and security keys. If apple piracy is on the way up you cant seriously expect apple to sit on their arse and do nothing about it?

Then where would we be? back with all those ugly beige boxes on our desks? :mad:

[Bear]

To respond to various points brought up in this forum thread:
Apple does make a noticeable amount of money from OS X sales. So people downloading it for free does cost them money.
Developers shold be using the appropriate forums that Apple has for the beta products amd not other public forums.
"Should I back up my data before installing the beta?" That doesn't even deserve an answer. I myself do regular backups and backups for major OS upgrades - yes I backup before installing released OS upgrades.
"I'm running Mac OS Tiger (or whatever beta) and this or that doesn't work." Well, that's why it's beta software. If you were an authorized recepient of the beta, you could report it to Apple. As it is, it'll be fixed in the released version. Quit your whining.

I'm beginning to think that any threads in the forum about people who have illegally obtained beta software should summarily be deleted and the person who started it warned (if appropriate) that they stand to get their account deleted.

[mpopkin]

exactly, that is why no one should download a version of 10.4 tiger for free, not because of license bull___t, i have paid a s___load of money for my two apple computers(g5 dual 2 and pbook 1.5 fully loaded) and to tell you the truth, if i wanted tiger prerelease which i dont,i would not have a care in the world for the license or "personal property" crap that is coming out of this thread. Apple is here for the money and whether or not i or anyone else is going to buy the os when it comes out or downloads it now is there own concern. period. end of question. You come out and attack people who download free copies of tiger, 1) how do you know they exist if you dont go to sites where they exist at? 2) do not give me this b___c___P that you have never downloaded a song for free or gotten something from a friend for free that you should not have, i have to say that almost everyone has downloaded at least one song for free at one point in their existence(not from the itms free song of the week) 3) #2 is a violation of copyright license and i am sure that whomever this applies would take offense at being accused of downloading a song, but nobody can deny it, for example i can say to someone i have never recieved an illegal license for some software or music and have no qualms attacking others about, but i would still be guilty of getting free copies of some stuff, but i would also point out that it is the people who get some free stuff that buy more from apple(aka powermacs/pbooks instead of ibooks/imacs and guess what, there is a big difference in profit margins for apple between these products and Apple is seemingly willing to turn a blind eye because they sure have in the past about these occasional borrowers who spend mightily at their stores and on their products, but cannot always afford the high software costs. For example i still buy final cut pro but not other solutions in the package, but i also buy a new computer every year and apple has a loyal customer in me, i also buy music online(wont deny the occasional free download) i still pay for plenty of music though. The point of this is, stop complaining about people downloading tiger or anything else because it happens, Dr. Dastardly has the right idea, who the heck would want a beta copy of tiger is not thinking about the issues that probably come with it, while it might be cool for a little while to run a beta of tiger, the costs of system instability, crashes and incompatabilities are more than i would want to deal with. People download stuff, and unless you are going to run off to the FBI, then layoff, because it is none of your business what other people do on their own time and with their own computers, the saying is let them be caught, because it is none of my concern

I personally don't understand why anyone in there right mind would load a beta test version of an OS on their home computer if they were not a developer or a pro.

Except for the stupidist reason of all... Bragging rights. :rolleyes:

[Dom]

Bad things happen even with the best of intent. The fact of the matter is, your breaking the law. By your logic why not use pot, I'm not intending to hurt anybody. There is a reason apple hasn't put a beta for us all to download and play with on their site. Because, in contradiction to what you said, people won't buy tiger. They do loose money because of illegal downloads. As for the pre-release records, I think its wrong, but don't take issue with it because I don't stay informed on it. Everything is done for a reason at Apple.

This is a particularly self-righteous posting. Slavery used to be legal once, until it was directly confronted by libertarians. We're the libertarians wrong for defying the law?

Pot and cocaine used to be legal once, until its legality was challenged by puritanical conservatives. So once upon a time it WAS okay to smoke pot, actually.

I'm not suggesting that anarchy should supplicate the rule of law, but in a free society, the individual should have a healthy contempt for the rule book. If we didn't, the masses would have no method of expressing their dissatisfaction with the law and thus no realistic means of changing it. And that would hardly be a free society now, would it?

This also applies to downloading Apple's Betas. It might be illegal but guess what? Over the years I've contributed a fair old wad of my money to their cashpile, so if I want a sneak preview of what they're going to be charging me 100 pounds for in a year's time, I'm not going to have a great crisis of conscience about doing it.

And yes, maybe some people DO download Tiger so they can brag, but perhaps the reason for some developers arguing against illegal downloading of Tiger is that it takes the prestige out of their exclusive rights to use it.

[Laslo Panaflex]

I don't know why I am even getting involved . . . BUT

If it already hasn't been said, why isn't anybody pissed off at the developer(s) that actually put it up on the internet to download? (Talk about illegal) I mean, they must know all about the trouble they could get in, and how much money apple will lose because people will download it and not buy the final OS. I mean, this is the begining of mass chaos, anarchy, the end of times are at hand, I can't believe people would do such a thing . . .

/end sarcastic rant

[edesignuk]

and how much money apple will lose because people will download it and not buy the final OS.
No one will keep an early beta as an OS instead of the final. This is a non-issue.

[Laslo Panaflex]

No one will keep an early beta as an OS instead of the final. This is a non-issue.

I couldn't agree more.

I was being sarcastic in my post, I really suck at getting that across sometimes.

[MacsRgr8]

Why is everybody getting so excited about this?

People are just plain ol' curious. If you're a Mac fanatic, and you get the chance to get hold of a copy of Tiger (illegal or not), you'll do it.
You just want to see, want to feel, want to be able to talk about what's newest up Apple's sleve :)

It's not bragging rights, just fun.
It's like Macrumors posting images of the new iMac Flat Panel a day before the announcement at MWSF 2 years ago.... you just wanna see them!
It's like the G5 specs being posted on Apple's WebStore a couple of days before the WWDC last year... you just had to know!

I just hope the guys who have an illegal copy of Tiger, don't go asking questions about it. Don't mention you have it, just have fun.... and buy the real thing when it's done. :) :cool:

[edesignuk]

To respond to various points brought up in this forum thread:
Apple does make a noticeable amount of money from OS X sales. So people downloading it for free does cost them money.
Developers shold be using the appropriate forums that Apple has for the beta products amd not other public forums.
"Should I back up my data before installing the beta?" That doesn't even deserve an answer. I myself do regular backups and backups for major OS upgrades - yes I backup before installing released OS upgrades.
"I'm running Mac OS Tiger (or whatever beta) and this or that doesn't work." Well, that's why it's beta software. If you were an authorized recepient of the beta, you could report it to Apple. As it is, it'll be fixed in the released version. Quit your whining.

I'm beginning to think that any threads in the forum about people who have illegally obtained beta software should summarily be deleted and the person who started it warned (if appropriate) that they stand to get their account deleted.
http://upload.yo-momma.net/uploads/macros/getoffhighhorse.jpg

[rastafari]

Why is everybody getting so excited about this?

People are just plain ol' curious. If you're a Mac fanatic, and you get the chance to get hold of a copy of Tiger (illegal or not), you'll do it.
You just want to see, want to feel, want to be able to talk about what's newest up Apple's sleve :)

It's not bragging rights, just fun.
It's like Macrumors posting images of the new iMac Flat Panel a day before the announcement at MWSF 2 years ago.... you just wanna see them!
It's like the G5 specs being posted on Apple's WebStore a couple of days before the WWDC last year... you just had to know!

I just hope the guys who have an illegal copy of Tiger, don't go asking questions about it. Don't mention you have it, just have fun.... and buy the real thing when it's done. :) :cool:

well put :) i did this when panther was in dev stage and used 3 different builds. when it was final and in stores i bought it. wheres the harm in that?

[MacsRgr8]

I Like your images, edesignuk :D

[edesignuk]

Like your images, edesignuk :DThanks. Just made that one especially for this thread! Sometimes I just give up talking to people, and images can say a thousand words ;) :D

[MacsRgr8]

Thanks. Just made that one especially for this thread! Sometimes I just give up talking to people, and images can say a thousand words ;) :D

How right you are... especially in this thread. :rolleyes:

[edesignuk]

Its not for fun, and if you do download it, don't expect me or any others on this board to help you get your system up and running.I don't like the fact that you seem to think you can speak for all of us when you say this :mad: I am "any others", and I'll gladly help a fellow Mac user eager to get their eyes on Tiger first hand. :p So in future, if you wouldn't mind, please try to speak only for your uptight self, rather than the rest of this 37,491 member board, ok?

[MacsRgr8]

Me says: Forget thread.
It's all for fun.

Just like all the images around here... ;)

Tnx.

[edesignuk]

[IMAGE]
Carefull, I don't think the mods will like the bad language, just sayin' :)

But still...

http://upload.yo-momma.net/uploads/macros/lol.jpg

[Laslo Panaflex]

IMAGE

LOL, now that's funny.

[mkaake]

Please tell me you're not so stupid that you just compared killing someone to downloading a piece of software??? :eek: :rolleyes:

naw.... just frustrated with people saying that i'm a hypocrite if i suggest that they obey the law because i may at one point in my life have broken the law before. frustrates me. no matter what, on these forums, when it comes down to it being the law, someone always busts out the: 'well, if you've ever j-walked before...'

it's tiring...

[Sabbath]

Why is everybody getting so excited about this?

People are just plain ol' curious. If you're a Mac fanatic, and you get the chance to get hold of a copy of Tiger (illegal or not), you'll do it.
You just want to see, want to feel, want to be able to talk about what's newest up Apple's sleve :)

It's not bragging rights, just fun.
It's like Macrumors posting images of the new iMac Flat Panel a day before the announcement at MWSF 2 years ago.... you just wanna see them!
It's like the G5 specs being posted on Apple's WebStore a couple of days before the WWDC last year... you just had to know!

I just hope the guys who have an illegal copy of Tiger, don't go asking questions about it. Don't mention you have it, just have fun.... and buy the real thing when it's done. :) :cool:

I agree completely people just want to know what it is gonna be like. We shouldn't really go around talking about stuff Apple hasn't mentioned publically, but I personally don't feel there is a problem with having a little nose around if you know what you are doing. If you don't know what you're doing steer well clear.

[CubaTBird]

your all missing the point steve jobs and bill gates are best friends. b/c steve said in his keynote that he had lunch with bill gates... seesh this whole thing about ms being some evil empire is way out of reality.. i bet steve and bill maintain a good business relationship and are laughing at what the meida and people on this forum say

[mkaake]

your all missing the point steve jobs and bill gates are best friends. b/c steve said in his keynote that he had lunch with bill gates... seesh this whole thing about ms being some evil empire is way out of reality.. i bet steve and bill maintain a good business relationship and are laughing at what the meida and people on this forum say

i'm gonna take a shot in the dark and say you accidentally posted in the wrong thread?

[edesignuk]

your all missing the point steve jobs and bill gates are best friends. b/c steve said in his keynote that he had lunch with bill gates... seesh this whole thing about ms being some evil empire is way out of reality.. i bet steve and bill maintain a good business relationship and are laughing at what the meida and people on this forum say
http://upload.yo-momma.net/uploads/macros/CONFUSED.jpg

[MacsRgr8]

LOL :D

[Rower_CPU]

This flamefest is done.

Way to report personal attacks and profanity, folks. :rolleyes: