Thread dedicated to whining about MWNY [Archive]

King Cobra

Jul 17, 2002, 03:20 PM

At least give me the Powerbook (if you feel that bad, I'll take it for free).

All right. That does it. For now, every time somebody confesses that they are switching they better damn well see this message:

[For those complaining about no PowerMacs and want to switch, calm down and think for a GD minute.] Do you really expect Apple to have updates after a certain amount of months? Look back to the Macs released after the San Fransisco Expo. Were you guys THAT disappointed? No. You were all happy. So what makes you think Apple won't do it again...make you happy?

So, plain and simple, if you are patient, you will be rewarded. If you are not patient and are not rewarded you are screwing yourself right to the :eek:. Apple knows EXACTLY what they are doing with these Expos. If they didn't, then why would there even be one? Apple has their PowerMacs just about ready for a few weeks time, but other buisness has to be pertained to first. That buisness is what you just saw at the NY Expo.

Again, you cannot keep expecting a new PowerMac to come out at an Expo. But you can expect a very satisfying update. Expect the best in the PowerMac falling under reason, and you most likely will get it. But these things do in fact happen at appropriate moments. I say this because there was plenty of other stuff at NY you could have seen, especially the iMac.

So don't expect everything to go your way, but expect everything to go the right way. As Apple's logo even states: "Think different." :cool:

job

Jul 17, 2002, 03:22 PM

Hahahaha...These forums are a laugh a minute. Look what I found in the News Discussion Forum :

Apples switch campaign is working! I think I will switch. Switch to Linux, which is OpenSource, supported by it's users, and runs fine on the ppc archtecture. So Long APPLE! You SUCK!!!

Hahahaha...:p

I have nothing against Linux, but all the things he mentions are done by Mac OS X perfectly well. :p :p

Taft

Jul 17, 2002, 03:22 PM

Ditching a platform because you don't want to pay for one of thousands of Mac compatible e-mail services??? Or maybe its because you need a P4 2.8 GHz chip for your internet browsing.

Makes sense.:rolleyes:

Taft

edesignuk

Jul 17, 2002, 03:22 PM

Allthough I'm not exactly overjoyed with todays news I'm still happy with the product, that is, the quility of the hardware and the stability and ease of use of the software, and 10.2 should make things even better/faster.
But, MWSF had better offer some damn good kit or there maybe many like tjwett. :(

mcrain

Jul 17, 2002, 03:23 PM

Good luck with the AMD system. If you have anywhere near the luck I've had with mine, you'll be back. I'll trade you my piece of crap PC for your TiBook.

job

Jul 17, 2002, 03:25 PM

People like this make the forums all the more funnier. :D :D :p

mischief

Jul 17, 2002, 03:25 PM

DON'T LET THE DOOR HITCHA ON THE WAY OUT FOOL!:p :p :p ;) :rolleyes: :D :p

MacAztec

Jul 17, 2002, 03:48 PM

You will be back. I mean...seriously. What possibly do you need the power for at this very minute that would make you sell your tibook and use windoze.

I feel bad for you, tj. You will regret this, no joke

tjwett

Jul 17, 2002, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by Taft
Ditching a platform because you don't want to pay for one of thousands of Mac compatible e-mail services??? Or maybe its because you need a P4 2.8 GHz chip for your internet browsing.

Makes sense.:rolleyes:

Taft

Nah, switching because I need speed and current technology in a machine that's worth it's price and I simply can't afford to wait any longer. Wish I could but I can't. Just customized 2 kick ass systems for under $1400 and change each. And it's not for internet browsing. It's for network renders of After Effects and Combustion. I'll probably keep my PowerMac for audio production since I'm a Logic user. Maybe I'll be back for the G5...

Logging Off,

tjwett

MacAztec

Jul 17, 2002, 04:12 PM

This will be you soon....

Sun Baked

Jul 17, 2002, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by tjwett
I'd rather deal with a *****ty OS than waste any more money or time with the thieves at Apple. ...

This looked more like a televangelist trying to get into people's pockets than a technology expo...

It's been real. Real expensive.

I hear the Wintel hardware is dirt cheap (and doesn't cost much either).

I also hear that it less expensive to use MS across the board, the 6 figure IT staff running my 2 Wintel computers tell me so. (and they have the nerve to say they won't support the Mac) :p

Good luck, in a year you should really be limber after all those ankle grabbing moments MS will put you through.

At least the MS Jelly you'll be using won't have that silly Apple aftertaste.

job

Jul 17, 2002, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by tjwett
Maybe I'll be back for the G5...

Hahahahaha...That has to be at least the 30th time I've heard that today. Bwhahahaha...:p :p

ilikeiBook

Jul 17, 2002, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by tjwett
Straight to Windows! My TiBook is up on eBay and I'm picking out a new AMD based beige box as we speak, maybe two. I'd rather deal with a *****ty OS than waste any more money or time with the thieves at Apple. Anyone willing to pay $100 for iTools is on glue, or more likely, brainwashed by Apple's marketing tactics. Jaguar looks nice but I wouldn't insult it by trying to run it on any of Apple's current hardware offerings. This looked more like a televangelist trying to get into people's pockets than a technology expo. I'm outta here, atleast until things turn around. Farewell Macrumors and goodbye Apple. It's been real. Real expensive.

:mad:

You evil traitor to your people! I hope your PC crashes the fist time you use it (Odds about 2:1). You will pay!!!!:mad:

evildead

Jul 17, 2002, 04:48 PM

copperpipe

Jul 17, 2002, 05:03 PM

that jaguar operating system looks terrible. yeah, i know that the rendevous technology is cutting edge, and the email program looks amazing, and itunes3 is awesome, and it's gonna be blazing fast and i could go on and on, but the processor speeds aren't gonna be as fast as an intel chip in at least three weeks! Ok, so when they do come out they will probably be faster than anything else out there but I got priorities! People, let me tell you, i would rather buy a computer now that will affect my life for the next 2-3 years based on what's happening now, not in three weeks! Sheesh. Hey what's an occasional crash or two throughout the day. Or even the most common solution in windows, wiping the hard drive. hey i say NO BIGGIE! Anyway, did you guys see how slow jaguar was running during the keynote? BOY OH BOY, it was a slug!

Guys, we gotta look at the SMALL PICTURE here! C'mon who's with us?!!

iwantanewmac

Jul 17, 2002, 05:29 PM

well I agree a bit. they have all those amazing (really!) apps like itunes and zip to run it on. the dual GHZ is a laugh....really. (or it was really ********d up when I tried 1 at the apple store in Palo Alto). I'll just wait a bit.
AND....why they hell are they giving 1 year of warranty for the new ipod now?
and 4 months for the old 1? I think that's lame.....but that's apple for ya.
they always have those kind of "stunts". And they should do something about those damn prices...that dual thingy costs 3300 EURO (without sales tax here). For those who don't know...the EURO trades for $1.01 now....
It's just a bit sad....but hey that's apple for ya... (again)

Ifeelbloated

Jul 17, 2002, 05:34 PM

I can't believe these guys are having a fit about this. Then say that they're going to spend all this money in a Wintel or AMD system and then maybe come back for the G5 if it kicks ass? No, no, when it kicks ass? Why don't you save up and WAIT? Then you'll have the money to get that Dual G5 when it comes out. Jeez. We all know that the G5 is going to kick some serious ass and you'll all be kicking yourselves for you short-sightedness.

job

Jul 17, 2002, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by copperpipe
that jaguar operating system looks terrible. yeah, i know that the rendevous technology is cutting edge, and the email program looks amazing, and itunes3 is awesome, and it's gonna be blazing fast and i could go on and on, but the processor speeds aren't gonna be as fast as an intel chip in at least three weeks! Ok, so when they do come out they will probably be faster than anything else out there but I got priorities! People, let me tell you, i would rather buy a computer now that will affect my life for the next 2-3 years based on what's happening now, not in three weeks! Sheesh. Hey what's an occasional crash or two throughout the day. Or even the most common solution in windows, wiping the hard drive. hey i say NO BIGGIE! Anyway, did you guys see how slow jaguar was running during the keynote? BOY OH BOY, it was a slug!

Guys, we gotta look at the SMALL PICTURE here! C'mon who's with us?!!

So what you are essentially saying is that you have absolutly no paticence to wait a paltry 3 weeks. :rolleyes:
Figures it's coming from someone who says Jaguar is slow.

kettle

Jul 17, 2002, 05:44 PM

I think the real horror is - where else do I go?
Apple have the best solution, Microsoft have the worst.

BOTH of them make you take it up the arse.

I just want what I paid for. If 10.1.5 happened to be as quick as 10.2 appears to be then I wouldn't have a complaint. If it doesn't have as many features then I pay to upgrade. I just resent the fact that features I have paid for, (an operating system) do not work efficiently. Why use big flashy windows, when they start stuttering every time you get more then three open at once. I paid 100 quid for the best solution and got a beta os.

Hey, but why should I complain to our Steve God Jobs when Microsoft couldn't do any better.

PCandMac

Jul 17, 2002, 06:10 PM

Hey guys I need some help. I am into pretty heavy editing. Right now I use a sony P4, Adobe Premiere, but obviously it IS a PC and you know what that means. I LOVE Final Cut Pro 3. I wanted to see what would happen today... looks like no new Powermacs anytime soon. So I want to order a 966mhz PowerMac I believe. (I can't afford duals). I know this will hold up for what I use it for.

ARE there any powermacs coming next month you think?

Will Jaguar make it easier for me to network my PC and Mac?

If I order a mac tomorrow, will they ship OSX.2 with it? Or seperate? Or not at all? Thanks a lot!

I appreciate the help, If I get any! :)

mr.w

Jul 17, 2002, 06:24 PM

Whatever man... Apple doesn't want you either.

Infact you've already been replaced by one of the thousands of new mac users attracted to the 17in CONSUMER iMac's. (Apple is currently focusing on the consumer markets -> all of those "real people" adds)

New powermacs WILL comeout. I guess you just don't want to wait another 4-6 weeks.

To bad your AMD wintel boxes wont retain their value when infact you decide to trade them in for a new powermac...

zarathustra

Jul 17, 2002, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by PCandMac
Hey guys I need some help. I am into pretty heavy editing. Right now I use a sony P4, Adobe Premiere, but obviously it IS a PC and you know what that means. I LOVE Final Cut Pro 3. I wanted to see what would happen today... looks like no new Powermacs anytime soon. So I want to order a 966mhz PowerMac I believe. (I can't afford duals). I know this will hold up for what I use it for.

ARE there any powermacs coming next month you think?

Will Jaguar make it easier for me to network my PC and Mac?

If I order a mac tomorrow, will they ship OSX.2 with it? Or seperate? Or not at all? Thanks a lot!

I appreciate the help, If I get any! :)

Wait- Unless you need to finish a big project in the very near future. You will kick yourself in four weeks when/if they come out with something better.
From my experience every time I buy something they upgrade within three weeks (I think it's internal Apple policy to follow my buying sprees and they laugh and watch me curse ) but you might have better luck. ;)
Jaguar should allow for SMB browsing and VPN access, so more Windows friendly than ever. And it's likely that they will ship Jaguar with the NEW PowerMacs (august 24?).

Mr.Hey

Jul 17, 2002, 06:39 PM

Wry Cooter

Jul 17, 2002, 07:19 PM

Ya kneejerk shipjumpers have to realize there are two things happening here...

1) If a new Tower is to be released, it is going to ship with Jaguar. Which is later, yet soon. And there is a backlog of inventory to clear.

2) Apple is moving away from hardware product announcements at Expos PERIOD, and will shift more of that to unannounced events, or other trade shows. Expos are great and we all want new toys, uh tools, but they are horribly timed in relation to the two biggest buying seasons... the educational market (which was a month or so back,) and the Holidays (How many of you have had your Apple Christmas in January or February instead?)

I was only slightly surprised with the low quantity of announcements today, but there were plently of clues it would be low key... major vendors staying at home, No TechTV simulcast.

SoarEyes

Jul 17, 2002, 07:29 PM

nothing to announce and he needed like an hour and half not to announce it. Steve knows he needs new pro machines and he just couldnt deliver.
which is cool if only he wasn’t such a bull **** artist.

jargwire... lag wire.

machagheid

Jul 17, 2002, 07:59 PM

I still have to use my humble imac. Unfortunately it appears to function perfectly. I've just installed iTunes 3, & 'bugger!' it works as well.......PURPLE TOO (perhaps I could stop liking that colour?) I have $0000s & I NEED TO SPEND (sic) The dearer it is, the more I can complain.
Wonder how many moaners will ACTUALLY shell out the Big Bucks for these machines when they arrive? Very......Very few methinx .
Without buying an AMD (Is that a Vibrator Manufacturer?) can someone help me find something to complain about?
P.S. A substantial improvement to iTunes is achieved by purchasing a pair of Grado 'phones. WARNING: These though, are also unfortunately without flaws.....*owner may experience happiness*.

nickgold

Jul 17, 2002, 08:19 PM

There are no new PowerMacs coming out, because there are a ton in the retail channel. You can't wait a month or so for OS X.2 preinstalled on some new badass towers? Please. Are you a Windows troll or what? Today's keynote was a-ok by me. I have a feeling Apple will turn around and offer free mac.com email with very basic functionality, and an upgrade price path for X.2. And hey, even if they don't, no big deal. Quality comes at a price. X.1 works for most everything. You are not being forced to upgrade.

As for Mac.com, stupid name, but hey, it's a good service. Nobody said your free iTools stuff would last forever, and I'm sure if you agreed to the EULA, you know that. You did "Agree" after all. Blame yourself, and quit whining. Apple is a business. It is in the business of making money. Not a charity. A business. iTools was a great thing, for a while. But Apple is right... People expecting everything on the Net to be free are naive, and in fact are killing the future chances of the Net to grow and flourish. If you've looked at the stock market recently, you know the tech world isn't exactly "flourishing" right now. It needs to make more money, or all these companies are going to shrink, and eventually, disappear.

sageenos

Jul 17, 2002, 08:23 PM

Sure, for almost nothing I could build a powerful x86 system, but I want a computer that's fun to use. Mac OSX is beautiful and easy to use, it has a great development platform, posix compliance, and stability. The only reason I'll run windows from now on is if I'm forced to (compsci classes are still using windows at my college, but I'll be able to work in vmware thankfully). The hardware may be expensive, but it's powerful enough for everything that I'll be doing and it looks fantastic.

Grokgod

Jul 17, 2002, 08:44 PM

PCANDMAC~

Listen very carefully!

DO NOT BUY ANYTHING!

I am in the same boat as you.

I use Final Cut pro, its great no doubt!
But buying a 966 would be the MOST serious MISTAKE of your life!

It will NOT work as you need it to!
Thats it pure and simple.

You MUST wait till the PowerMAcs are Upgraded!
Don't listen to any of those lame users that boot iTunes and go to sleep thinking.
"I dont need more speed why would anyone need more speed?"

These people are FOOLS. They make me sick.

they use they computer for cd playing and chatting and crap!

They IS a GREAT need for speed and hardware upgrades.
I think that APPLE has missed the boat on the PRO issue along time ago and I think that APPLE doesnt care anymore!

Its the LAMEsumer that APPLE wants!

Pros need much MORE!

We NEED to send a message to APPLE.

Bring out the good stuff from the back room!
We're tired of the word parade.
Lets get it on! Already....

I am sickened by the wait another month, and another and another and another!

JESUS~ This is the computer world, Not REtarded Checkers!

OK to finalize, Don't do it, dont buy now, wait till the new hardware.
2 reasons , one because its needed to run the apps.
Also because we must stand up for our rights!

This is the reason APPLE hates rumors sites.
APPLE doesnt want FREEDOM and its users communicating.
It want us uninformed and buying any piece if crap they throw at us!

Choppaface

Jul 17, 2002, 09:06 PM

he he I'm glad I missed my alarm and slept in now :D

Hemingray

Jul 17, 2002, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by Choppaface
he he I'm glad I missed my alarm and slept in now :D

Ahh yes, but on the other hand you missed everyone busting up at Will Ferrells "Switch" ad. :D That alone was worth getting up at 6, IMO!

I knew they wouldn't be announcing new PM's, but I was hoping against hope at the end there. Oh well. Most likely we'll see a speed bump in August, but I doubt anything more.

MacUser1

Jul 17, 2002, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by nickgold
There are no new PowerMacs coming out, because there are a ton in the retail channel. You can't wait a month or so for OS X.2 preinstalled on some new badass towers? Please. Are you a Windows troll or what? Today's keynote was a-ok by me. I have a feeling Apple will turn around and offer free mac.com email with very basic functionality, and an upgrade price path for X.2. And hey, even if they don't, no big deal. Quality comes at a price. X.1 works for most everything. You are not being forced to upgrade.

As for Mac.com, stupid name, but hey, it's a good service. Nobody said your free iTools stuff would last forever, and I'm sure if you agreed to the EULA, you know that. You did "Agree" after all. Blame yourself, and quit whining. Apple is a business. It is in the business of making money. Not a charity. A business. iTools was a great thing, for a while. But Apple is right... People expecting everything on the Net to be free are naive, and in fact are killing the future chances of the Net to grow and flourish. If you've looked at the stock market recently, you know the tech world isn't exactly "flourishing" right now. It needs to make more money, or all these companies are going to shrink, and eventually, disappear.

I couldn't have said it better myself

mac15

Jul 17, 2002, 09:36 PM

well, I am just a tad pissed off with paying so much for jaguar

I only bought a computer about 6 weeks ago and I miss out on the free upgrade, I have a new imac I should be able to get the free upgrade, I will pay the $220AU but I will in disgust and then I will bring it home install and forget about it.........

tjwett

Jul 17, 2002, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by Grokgod
PCANDMAC~

Listen very carefully!

DO NOT BUY ANYTHING!

Yeah Grok! Too late for me though. I put my TiBook on eBay along with all my Mac software and ordered 2 kickass Pentium machines for a total of about $2700! Was anyone else insulted by the new announcements? Charging for a worthless piece of crap like iTools? The 17" iMac not only looks retarded but is still sporting a 100mhz system bus and a pretty cheesy graphics card. Only now it's $2000! Yeah, that's right in the consumer price range you idiots. iPod, big deal. It's still a ripoff. Jaguar looks decent but it's worthless without real hardware. It is clear that Apple has officially given up on the pros to concetrate on rich children. I'm through with Apple, atleast until they start making computers again.

madamimadam

Jul 17, 2002, 10:14 PM

Originally posted by tjwett

Yeah Grok! Too late for me though. I put my TiBook on eBay along with all my Mac software and ordered 2 kickass Pentium machines for a total of about $2700! Was anyone else insulted by the new announcements? Charging for a worthless piece of crap like iTools? The 17" iMac not only looks retarded but is still sporting a 100mhz system bus and a pretty cheesy graphics card. Only now it's $2000! Yeah, that's right in the consumer price range you idiots. iPod, big deal. It's still a ripoff. Jaguar looks decent but it's worthless without real hardware. It is clear that Apple has officially given up on the pros to concetrate on rich children. I'm through with Apple, atleast until they start making computers again.

I thought you said "goodbye" yet I am still reading your ****.... why????

Since when is a 4MX cheesy???? HELLO... last time I checked that was industry standard and the iMac is only a consumer machine. As for the bus, Intels is not much better, don't be fooled by the numbers 400 and 566, they still have not developed a bus faster than 133 on the P4.

"Offically given up on the Pros"... I don't remember that press conference... can you send a link???

"until (Apple) start making computers again".... last time I checked, production has not stopped.... am I missing something?

tjwett

Jul 17, 2002, 10:56 PM

Q:I thought you said "goodbye" yet I am still reading your ****.... why????
A:I don't know but thanks!

Q:Since when is a 4MX cheesy???? HELLO... last time I checked that was industry standard...
A:And since when do consumer machines START at $1399 and range to $2k? We all know the eMac was a flop and that's why it was made available to everyone.

Q:"Offically given up on the Pros"... I don't remember that press conference... can you send a link???
A:Do you need a press conference to see that the PMs are severely outdated? And the coming(someday) introduction of DDR RAM is not something to wet your pants over. This should have been standard ages ago.

Q:"until (Apple) start making computers again".... last time I checked, production has not stopped.... am I missing something?
A:These(iMac and eMac) are not computers. They are toys for rich children who don't even want them because they can't handle gaming. And the PowerMacs are a jokeypoo.

I do not "chat" with "buddies" or play around with home movies. These things mean nothing to me. I do video and audio for a living. The current PowerMacs can literally not handle it. Atleast the way I need them to. What other choice do I have? Go broke waiting for Apple to catch up? No thanks. If they came out with some serious hardware I'll ditch Windows and buy it in a second because I think OSX has the potential to be amazing. Right now I cannot afford to wait. If Apple has not given up on the pros, the pros are going to give up on Apple.

madamimadam

Jul 17, 2002, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by tjwett
Q:I thought you said "goodbye" yet I am still reading your ****.... why????
A:I don't know but thanks!

Thanks???????

Q:Since when is a 4MX cheesy???? HELLO... last time I checked that was industry standard...
A:And since when do consumer machines START at $1399 and range to $2k? We all know the eMac was a flop and that's why it was made available to everyone.

I will save myself from debating the economy with you and just say you did not answer the question

Q:"Offically given up on the Pros"... I don't remember that press conference... can you send a link???
A:Do you need a press conference to see that the PMs are severely outdated? And the coming(someday) introduction of DDR RAM is not something to wet your pants over. This should have been standard ages ago.

Dipstick, I was having a go at your use of the word "officially".

Q:"until (Apple) start making computers again".... last time I checked, production has not stopped.... am I missing something?
A:These(iMac and eMac) are not computers. They are toys for rich children who don't even want them because they can't handle gaming. And the PowerMacs are a jokeypoo.

If they are toys they are still computers. Also, if you can afford to buy a win machine and switch back to a mac anytime you like, sounds like you are a rich bastard... I wish i had the option to switch back and forth if I wanted to.

Durandal7

Jul 17, 2002, 11:16 PM

tjwett, you are now officially a PC troll and therefore nothing you say will have much relevance on these forums anymore.

tjwett

Jul 17, 2002, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by asurace
tjwett, you are now officially a PC troll and therefore nothing you say will have much relevance on these forums anymore.

Please, PC troll? First of all I've probably used Windows a total of 3 hours in my life. That's how much I like it. I have repeatedly shouted my disdain for Windows from this forum and many other places. I know Windows is awful. Hopefully it will stay out of my way long enough to do what I need. If not, I'll look elsewhere again. Yes, Windows sucks. But sadly, it's my best option right now. If that makes me troll then so be it. I call it looking out for my best interests.

Durandal7

Jul 18, 2002, 12:10 AM

sjs

Jul 18, 2002, 12:21 AM

tj, you're ok man.
First, I hope you ordered your new machines with Windows XP Pro. It works pretty well. My latest machine at my ofc is a 1.6 ghz P4 Dell with XP Pro. The "feeling" you get using it is nothing like the Apple experience, but it works well and is fast.

Still, all in all, I think when you add the expenses you are going to have for new software you will wish you had waited.

Good Luck!

job

Jul 18, 2002, 12:22 AM

tjwett

Jul 18, 2002, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by hitman

From reading his past posts I don't see any real reason as to why he even wrote them. Sure, he wants to tell the world that he's had it with Apple, but he sure seems awfully proud of the fact that he is dumping the Mac OS. It's almost as if he wanted to get a rise of us. What did he accomplish here? He showed us that he cannot, for some reason, wait for any new PowerMacs. Brilliant.

Yes, my initial posts were a bit obnoxious. I wasn't trying to accomplish anything or get a rise out of anyone. Just venting, as alot of people are who are also disappoited with what's going on. Granted, it didn't turn out to be productive discussion for anyone here. And I'm certainly not proud to be dumping the Mac OS at all. I wish I didn't have to but I feel that I do. Like I said, if something that I need is released I'll scoop it up without thinking twice.

job

Jul 18, 2002, 12:36 AM

Originally posted by tjwett
Just venting, as alot of people are who are also disappoited with what's going on.

That's understandable.
It's all good mate. :)

hitman

tjwett

Jul 18, 2002, 12:46 AM

Originally posted by asurace

For one thing I said PC not Windows. You clearly despise Apple. I don't really care what you do, I'm just pointing out that this is a pointless debate. You won't change any of our minds and we won't change yours. Have you ever seen a Mac vs PC debate go anywhere? I rarely see Mac vs PC threads get posted other then because someone thought it would be fun to agitate everyone. Just what did you hope to acomplish here?

Forgive me. When I here "PC", I think "Windows". And I don't at all hate Apple. I've been a Mac user for many years. Never used anything else. And I did not intend to start a Mac vs PC war. I know NOTHING about PCs or Windows. I will not lie and say I wasn't a bit(very) peaved with today's announcements. And I definitely don't agree with whatever it is they are doing. The iTools(.mac) thing drives me nuts and if there is no upgrade price for 10.2 I'll chew my arm off. I don't think I'm alone in feeling a little left in the past with our current crop of hardware. Perhaps this is not the correct place to unload my anger for Apple but I already did, with no harm intended. I'm not expecting Windows to be a great experience by any means but if it can crunch numbers fast and cheap then I'll deal with it until something better comes along.

Durandal7

Jul 18, 2002, 12:52 AM

No problem tjwett. I just get annoyed at these threads since they tend to degenerate into pointless debates.

iH8Quark

Jul 18, 2002, 12:58 AM

Originally posted by PCandMac
Hey guys I need some help. I am into pretty heavy editing. Right now I use a sony P4, Adobe Premiere

If you're into pretty heavy editing, and you're using Premiere, you're not into pretty heavy editing. Trust me. That's an oxymoron.

Grokgod

Jul 18, 2002, 04:22 AM

I have to agree with TJWett!

The APPLE machines are in BAD shape!

The iMACS are not TOYS! I wish they were then at least they would be able to play games! like a toy should!

But they cant do that, they barely surf, thats not right for such an expensive machine. thats why they are sitting on warehouses and not being sold.

Along with the DP gigers!

APPLE can start a collection of failed units.! They look good but are useless!

Cant sell units so APPLE is gonna charge money for free email that they promised would be FREE FOR LIVE....did they think we forgot?

Pcheeses suck at video, NO doubt about it.
but what are the choices?

Reamed by M$ or A$$LE?

This is freakin ridiculous.

I am going to have to reconsider my entire life here!
ANd the way that I make money, because this is insane.

PS .PREMIERE DOES SUCK!

nuckinfutz

Jul 18, 2002, 04:58 AM

Is that Apple has had to revise their motherboard. There's no logical reasoning besides a MB change or the G4 with DDR support is not ready. At any rate I'm more worried about software and Apple is moving along in that direction just find.

Anyone who currently need the fastes OSX box could get an Xserve. That would kick ass as a combustion/After Effects box.

nemes1ss

Jul 18, 2002, 06:23 AM

How do they expect for us to pay $100 for .Mac every year? Apple's management is getting worse all the time. Those idiots are probably going to see a 90% drop in users.

Wry Cooter

Jul 18, 2002, 06:42 AM

Originally posted by nuckinfutz

Anyone who currently need the fastes OSX box could get an Xserve. That would kick ass as a combustion/After Effects box.

I think they really do hope that some of the people really doing serious video and audio editing will be getting Xserves-- they are going to the creative market before they are going to shove NT servers out of corporate markets.

But I don't think the xserve is a reason for a 'delay' in the new tower. It has to ship with Jaguar, they have to move the old towers to the truly needy (and if you do need them NOW they aren't bad and they will not get any cheaper with a full warranty). And it allows Motorola or someone competent, to get their yields up so that they can ship WHEN announced, rather than hit a post announcement snag that left them with arrival after the demand curve slumped, as with the g4 imacs.

evildead

Jul 18, 2002, 09:27 AM

Its $20 for an upggrad and $69 for the full thing with the education discount.

thats not that bad

US dollars

-evildead

Geert

Jul 18, 2002, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by evildead
Its $20 for an upggrad and $69 for the full thing with the education discount.

thats not that bad

US dollars

-evildead

That is what I read on another apple related site.
altough I don't see it anywhere on the Apple site itself that the upgrade only goes for 20USD,...

Although I checked it just now, and noticed that it is the up to date program that gets you X.2 for 20USD

evildead

Jul 18, 2002, 11:28 AM

yes but they will increas 100% profit. Its expensive to give free email, internet storage, and webhosting space.

I think they could stand to offer a cheeper deal for people that don't need all that space and just want email. Making people pay for email is a good way to cut down on spam. 90% of mine comes from hotmail users. If you had to pay for it... then I bet I would get less spam. I have several email account including 2 .mac addresses. Information on the internet must stay free. But the services on the internet... they just can't stay free for ever.

evildead

AlphaTech

Jul 18, 2002, 11:53 AM

First off, anyone that already had an iTools account as of midnight on the 16th gets the first year at 1/2 price.

Secondly, you are getting a LOT more space for the money. 15MB for email and 100MB for your iDisk.

Third, you CAN get JUST email for free, but kiss your iDisk goodbye, as well as the extra 10MB for email (you will have the old 5MB email size).

I will probably be upgrading to the pay version of iTools, since I care more for the iDisk then any other part. I have never used my @mac.com email, so I really don't care about that. I have six email addresses from my ISP, as well as a Yahoo email (that gets tons of spam) and an email address from work. I really DON'T need another email address, but at just a few dollars a month (when you break down the annual charge), it's a bargain.

Put it all into perspective. If you break it down to what it would cost per month, it's damn cheap, even for people that didn't have an iTools account before. I can also see why Apple doesn't want to charge monthly. Since it would break down to about $8.33/month (for the full charge of $99/year) or $4.16/month (for those wilth accounts already) the book-keeping charges would probably come out to more then the account charge.

Apple is in business to make money, NOT to give stuff away to everyone.

Suck it up, and either pay for the upgraded account, don't pay, or downgrade it to JUST email. Either way, you need to stop whining about it. It makes you seem like a 5 year old throwing a temper tantrum. :p

8thDegreeSavage

Jul 18, 2002, 02:49 PM

I plan on paying zero monies for 10.2 but i plan on having it...;)

Grokgod

Jul 18, 2002, 02:56 PM

As far as I know the up to date program referrs to people that purchase a new MAC from the 17th!

Everyone else, especially early adopters are paying the FULL 129!

As for Nickgold, I think that your an idiot.
Sorry but thats my opinion.

It may be worthless, but I think the reasons are obvious! :P

PCandMac

Jul 18, 2002, 02:58 PM

IH8Quark -

I just meant I dont only do "home video crap". Every single day at work I use Final Cut Pro... I love how much simpler it is to use. People at work has convinced me to buy a mac. So now I will network my PC and Mac.

iH8Quark

Jul 18, 2002, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by 8thDegreeSavage
I plan on paying zero monies for 10.2 but i plan on having it...;)

Hey, easy there, pal. We don't condone pirated software usage here.

Sun Baked

Jul 18, 2002, 03:18 PM

There are no upgrades for Mac OS X 10.2 at all.

But there is the up-to-date program for new computer purchases that don't come with 10.2 loaded, an it'll cost you 19.95

Harthansen

Jul 18, 2002, 03:55 PM

This sucks, when iTools came out it was promised as free email for life. I don't use the rest of the features, of iTools. I just wanted an email address that I would never have to change, no matter where I move. Now they think that I am gonna pay $100 for that service? I could get a ISP for that price with 5 email accounts. I have bought a top of the line powermac every year for the past 4 years and this year I bought a powerbook 667 in addition to the dual 1ghz powermac. I like macs, but Apple is getting greedier and greedier every year. They also want us to pay $130 for a very minor upgrade to OS-X! OS-X doesn't even work right as it is. Never mind the fact you have to go out and buy all new software for it. At least windows XP runs Windows 98 programs, fo rthe most part without a problem. Classic mode is a joke for processor intensive applications! I own a video production company, and for the first time, in 5 years I am seriously think about switching to PC's only!
-A pissed off customer

kettle

Jul 18, 2002, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by iH8Quark

Hey, easy there, pal. We don't condone pirated software usage here.

Oh no, it's the post that assumes it speaks for everybody, and assumes that something not paid for is stolen.

Hey I'll help you make a citizens arrest. Quick, grab them before they think anything else illegal.

Tiauguinho

Jul 18, 2002, 03:59 PM

Have a question for you guys.

5th of July I bought a PowerMac DP 1Ghz that camed with 10.1.3 and now is with 10.1.5. Yeah I know... I'll have to pay the ******** full Jaguar, but my question is concerned to this: I also have a PowerbookG4 550Mhz with 10.1.5. Do I have to buy two boxes of Jaguar for both computers so that they are legal, or is it by client?

If I have to buy two boxes of the Jaguar upgrade paying per each the full Price, can I write an email to Appe saying... ***** YOU!! ??????

Thanks in advance

kettle

Jul 18, 2002, 04:10 PM

Well

Apparently it is illegal to feel any negativity toward Apple.

They said I should read the small print about iTools.
I say, If you have more than one Mac you should, buy a Jag Wire box for each of them. If you have quite a few, I suggest a multi user license.

It's all there, in the small print.

hmm. Also...

No nevermind.

menoinjun

Jul 18, 2002, 04:11 PM

Technically you have to buy two copies of the os, but there really is no way for Apple to track you. If you do it, it would be illegal, but hard to trace.

-Pete

tjwett

Jul 18, 2002, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by Harthansen
I own a video production company, and for the first time, in 5 years I am seriously think about switching to PC's only!
-A pissed off customer

i own a video and audio company as well and i did just that because of all the reasons you listed. i like Apple too but i don't feel i have any choice right now. if you want, PM me and i'll send you a link to where i bought from. they design PCs specifically for audio and video and have an amazing support system. for those ready to flame me, no, i am not a PC troll or trying to start a war.

King Cobra

Jul 18, 2002, 04:11 PM

>This sucks, when iTools came out it was promised as free email for life. I don't use the rest of the features, of iTools. I just wanted an email address that I would never have to change, no matter where I move. Now they think that I am gonna pay $100 for that service? I could get a ISP for that price with 5 email accounts.

Did you even visit the Article Discussion forums, or even the front page of the site, for this issue? Apple MIGHT give back free email privilages.

>I have bought a top of the line powermac every year for the past 4 years and this year I bought a powerbook 667 in addition to the dual 1ghz powermac. I like macs, but Apple is getting greedier and greedier every year.

WTF are you talking about? How is Apple greedy? The economy is on a recession. Do you think that other companies aren't going to charge higher prices to get back in the flow of the market?

>They also want us to pay $130 for a very minor upgrade to OS-X!

That is that biggest ****ed up lie I have heard in 24 hours. 10.1 to 10.2 is NOT, I repeat, NOT a very minor upgrade. Apple busted their ashes to try and perfect the OS. They added all these features and, basically, sold their efforts to do everything they can to make this the BEST OS there is. Would you feel any different if Jaguar was OS 11? Because if you do, then you have some problems.

>OS-X doesn't even work right as it is.

Elaborate. I'd like to hear this...

>Never mind the fact you have to go out and buy all new software for it. At least windows XP runs Windows 98 programs, fo rthe most part without a problem.
>...fo rthe most part...

Interesting how you should mention that. How many errors do you get with OS X? How many have you gotten with heXPee? Do you even realize how much OS X has improved and how damn stable it is compared to Windoze? I don't think you do.

>Classic mode is a joke for processor intensive applications!

If you don't like it, don't use it. Use Photoshop 7 and OS X.

>I own a video production company, and for the first time, in 5 years I am seriously think about switching to PC's only!

You are going to regret it dearly.

>-A pissed off customer

Why exactly are you so uptight? Is this because you were expecting a cheap upgrade? Because you were expecting new PowerMacs? Because you expect everything to go your way? No. Apple does their things the right way, especially nowadays.

Do you really expect Apple to have updates after a certain amount of months? Look back to the Macs released after the San Fransisco Expo. Were you guys THAT disappointed? No. You were all happy. So what makes you think Apple won't do it again...make you happy?

So, plain and simple, if you are patient, you will be rewarded. If you are not patient and are not rewarded you are screwing yourself right to the :eek:. Apple knows EXACTLY what they are doing with these Expos. If they didn't, then why would there even be one? Apple has their PowerMacs just about ready for a few weeks time, but other buisness has to be pertained to first. That buisness is what you just saw at the NY Expo.

Again, you cannot keep expecting a new PowerMac to come out at an Expo. But you can expect a very satisfying update. Expect the best in the PowerMac falling under reason, and you most likely will get it. But these things do in fact happen at appropriate moments. I say this because there was plenty of other stuff at NY you could have seen, especially the iMac.

So don't expect everything to go your way, but expect everything to go the right way. As Apple's logo even states: "Think different." :cool:

menoinjun

Jul 18, 2002, 04:13 PM

HOW MANY THREADS ARE WE GOING TO HAVE ABOUT THIS?

Apple will allow you to switch to a free email only account...just not right now. Give them a few weeks.

Also, you say you do video production...then you should know exactly how ****ty Premiere and other programs are on the PC. So have fun if you get one, but you'll come crawling back once the G5s come out.

-Pete

ShaolinMiddleFinger

Jul 18, 2002, 04:13 PM

Please check out the other threads before you start one. Go here:

http://www.macrumors.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=7886

kettle

Jul 18, 2002, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by ptrauber
Technically you have to buy two copies of the os, but there really is no way for Apple to track you. If you do it, it would be illegal, but hard to trace.

-Pete

I bet they could tell if you used both machines to access yer new .mac account and iDisk stuff.

They probably couldn't afford to do anything, but they would know.

Perhaps they would make your next OS upgrade the full whack.:eek:

tjwett

Jul 18, 2002, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by ptrauber
HOW MANY THREADS ARE WE GOING TO HAVE ABOUT THIS?

Apple will allow you to switch to a free email only account...just not right now. Give them a few weeks.

Also, you say you do video production...then you should know exactly how ****ty Premiere and other programs are on the PC. So have fun if you get one, but you'll come crawling back once the G5s come out.

-Pete

no one actually uses Premier on any platform for serious work do they? i think we are talking about flame, smoke, combustion, AVid, even After Effects. no large house uses Premier. maybe for storyboarding but that's about it.

menoinjun

Jul 18, 2002, 04:25 PM

Even aftereffects sucks for the pc.

BTW- I was just typing this at work on a brand new Sony running XP when Explorer crashed. THE ENTIRE SYSTEM WENT DOWN!!!

That's the kind of quality you get with MS Windows. I can guarrantee that will never happen with OS X.

Happy computing...not.

-Pete

cleo

Jul 18, 2002, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by Harthansen
I have bought a top of the line powermac every year for the past 4 years and this year I bought a powerbook 667 in addition to the dual 1ghz powermac.

This has got to be one of the more humorous "Apple is stealing from us!" posts in the past 24 hours. You're telling me you've spent, what, $12-15,000 on Macs in the past four years and yet don't have a measly $49 to keep your email address plus a bunch of cool extras?

Ugh, I hate stupid people.

mischief

Jul 18, 2002, 04:38 PM

Tommy!

Jul 18, 2002, 04:45 PM

Unfortunately, I have to agree with some of hart's points. (not the switching to pcs of course ;))

I'm 15. I drained my whole account down to 14$ to pay for this new imac. I dont have 129$ to spend on that jaguar upgrade. I don't have money to spend on a personal email account.

I can only hope that Apple will continue to provide the free email accounts, and that they will expand the jaguar up to date program.

we'll see what happens

Moxiemike

Jul 18, 2002, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by Harthansen
This sucks, when iTools came out it was promised as free email for life. I don't use the rest of the features, of iTools. I just wanted an email address that I would never have to change, no matter where I move. Now they think that I am gonna pay $100 for that service? I could get a ISP for that price with 5 email accounts. I have bought a top of the line powermac every year for the past 4 years and this year I bought a powerbook 667 in addition to the dual 1ghz powermac. I like macs, but Apple is getting greedier and greedier every year. They also want us to pay $130 for a very minor upgrade to OS-X! OS-X doesn't even work right as it is. Never mind the fact you have to go out and buy all new software for it. At least windows XP runs Windows 98 programs, fo rthe most part without a problem. Classic mode is a joke for processor intensive applications! I own a video production company, and for the first time, in 5 years I am seriously think about switching to PC's only!
-A pissed off customer

A moronic customer jumping the gun without researching things. Yes, you are a MORON. An Idiot. A whiner. Yes, I'm flaming you. Why??? This is why:

Converting your .Mac trial account to an email-only account

IMPORTANT: If you choose to convert your trial account to an email-only account, all your data files on Apple's servers (except for email messages) will be removed. Other .Mac services, such as iDisk, HomePage, Backup, and Virex, are not accessible to email-only accounts.

To convert your trial account to email-only, go to www.mac.com. Click Account in the .Mac menu bar, then click the Email Account Management button. Enter the member name and password of the trial account you'd like to convert, then click Convert.

go here and click "help" for info, and get your basical email account and quit wasting bandwith with your uniformed drivel

http://www.mac.com/WebObjects/Welcome.woa/wa/landingPage?clickingUser=ethereal82&lang=en&cty=us&aff=consumer&phone=Y

Print your account information for future reference, then click Continue.

eyelikeart

Jul 18, 2002, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by mischief
I'm beginning to wonder how many of these guys only buy when drunk???:eek:

he he...seems more than those who come here and post while drunk ;)

drastik

Jul 18, 2002, 04:49 PM

man, you'd think that someone running a business would have some business sense. Do you give away free video tape, I could use some. Hey, ifyou do a project for me, and I pay you for it, are you going to do free stuff for me later? C'mon give me a free filter for my camera. I have to shoot a music video tomorrow, I bought your services before, do it free!

Moxiemike

Jul 18, 2002, 04:52 PM

AlphaTech

Jul 18, 2002, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by cleo

This has got to be one of the more humorous "Apple is stealing from us!" posts in the past 24 hours. You're telling me you've spent, what, $12-15,000 on Macs in the past four years and yet don't have a measly $49 to keep your email address plus a bunch of cool extras?

Ugh, I hate stupid people.

Bravo!!!! If they are too cheap to pay the annual amount, then they can convert to the free email version soon (before the grace period ends).

I guess that is what you get when your brother is your father. :eek: :eek: :D

drastik

Jul 18, 2002, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by Tommy!
Unfortunately, I have to agree with some of hart's points. (not the switching to pcs of course ;))

I'm 15. I drained my whole account down to 14$ to pay for this new imac. I dont have 129$ to spend on that jaguar upgrade. I don't have money to spend on a personal email account.

I can only hope that Apple will continue to provide the free email accounts, and that they will expand the jaguar up to date program.

we'll see what happens

I'm just curious here, but doesn't your ISP give you an email account, I mean how are youon the web without an email account.

I understand about being broke to buy a mac, and I feel for you, but Apple will let you keep the email, I firmly believe this. Just let them straighten things out.

And on the general side of things, did Apple really promise free email for life? What if they went out of business, would you feel cheated then. I just can't seem them making this promise, and I think people have manufactured it out of anger. Prove me wrong and i'll shut up.

kettle

Jul 18, 2002, 04:57 PM

Does anyone want to borrow an email accont?
You can use it while the depression for spending so much on your new apple and beta OS wears off. Then I'm affraid, when your feeling yourself again someone will be around to collect it along with that mouse mat and blank CD you were given with your last computer shop purchace.

Harthansen

Jul 18, 2002, 04:59 PM

>That is that biggest ****ed up lie I have heard in 24 hours. 10.1 >to 10.2 is NOT, I repeat, NOT a very minor upgrade. Apple >busted their ashes to try and perfect the OS. They added all >these features and, basically, sold their efforts to do everything >they can to make this the BEST OS there is. Would you feel any >different if Jaguar was OS 11? Because if you do, then you have >some problems.

OK buddy first off I love macs. This macworld just really pissed me off. I did not mean to send you off into a little premadonna hissy fit. (see his enitre post) As far as I am concerned this is a minor upgrade. All the **** they added does nothing for me as a profession video editor. For them to charge full price for the upgrade is bull...

>How many errors do you get with OS X? How many have you >gotten with heXPee? Do you even realize how much OS X has >improved and how damn stable it is compared to Windoze? I >don't think you do.

They should of called it at least OS-10.5 if the were gonna charge for it, and I don't think they should charge for it until it works right. It does crash, but as I stated in my original email, not as much as my PC. OS-x is no where near as easy to use as OS 9.x with 9.x you had total control. Something was screwing up you mac just turn off the extensions. In OS-x you don't have that luxury. It is still better then Windows, but when macs cost twice the price (even more considering I could build myself a top of the line PC for under $700) and go slower then a pc, I expect more. I don't want to hear that crap about certian tests in photoshop and other select program going faster then fastest Pentium chip. The tests they made were very selective. My single processor AMD XP 1700 running windows XP boots up in about 20 sec compared to OS-X 1-2 minutes. It renders faster in after effects, bryce, lightwave, and Maya, then my Dual 1 ghz G4.
I don't even care they didn't release new powermacs. I can understand why they didn't. They have too many. I also understand why most of the upgrades to OS 10.2 cater to consumers, so they really don't interest me.
I use a PC for my home computer, to surf the internet, listen to music, and play games. Only because I built my pc and it cost my 1/4 the price of an iMac that does the same thing, and because the internet was built for PC users and not everything is compatable with the mac. iTunes is better the windows media player. iMovie is better then that piece of you know what (I assume we can't swear on this thing) Movie Maker or what ever comes with windows. Apple need to get it's **** together they need to fire motorola (or buy them they hvae been buying enough companies lately you'd think they would look at the company that has been Fu**ing them over for the last 3 years. They should have chips running at the same speed as pentiums. (and speed for speed the G4 is much faster) They should of had things like DDR ram before eveyone else. I love macs but they need to get on the ball
-Hart

Moxiemike

Jul 18, 2002, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by Harthansen
>

They should of called it at least OS-10.5 if the were gonna charge for it, and I don't think they should charge for it until it works right.

i propose this: Let's start a petition to get Apple to change Jaguar to 10.5 so that we can shut this whiny moron troll up. :)

Have a good flame!

m

drastik

Jul 18, 2002, 05:06 PM

who cares what is called if it has the stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is the silliest thing I have every heard, I'm starting to wonder who you are anyway, you don't come across as inteligent enough to runa business. If I use MiniDV but call it Film, does it make it film? If I use film and call it soda, it still looks the same, names aren't important, content is.

dobbin

Jul 18, 2002, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by Moxiemike

A moronic customer jumping the gun without researching things. Yes, you are a MORON. An Idiot. A whiner. Yes, I'm flaming you. Why??? This is why:

Converting your .Mac trial account to an email-only account

.........

errrmm, moxiemike, before you fly off the wall, check your own facts. Your comments are rather hypocritical actually!

This has been written about in countless other threads and posts. You can only get an additional 'email only account' if you have already signed up for at least one full .mac membership.

Just because you are happy to pay (or not) you shouldn't criticise others who want to register their disapproval, especially when you don't have the facts!

I for one do not want to pay ~£100 (UK prices not even announced yet) for an email account. I don't really need the extras, all I really want is the email and I think ~£20 might be about right.

Thanks for reading.

Dobbin.

drastik

Jul 18, 2002, 05:13 PM

Well can you?

What you are doing, in essence, id accusing a major corporation of fraud. You had to agree to terms and conditions to sign up, I'm sure no one bothered to read them, but I can't believe apple would commit to anything for life.

Read your agreements if you saved them, you agreed to a contract.

PS, if you read your software liscences, they say that that can be taken away from you at anytime even if you did pay. Its a standard clause.

me hate windows

Jul 18, 2002, 05:17 PM

I like this thread,:D it's been the most flamey and hatred spewing one for a long time.:)

mischief

Jul 18, 2002, 05:18 PM

They'd have to find that same patch of mushrooms again. They can't do that without their magic bong fairy and 3 hits of acid so I think.... no.. they can't prove it ever existed.:D

dobbin

Jul 18, 2002, 05:18 PM

They said that iTools is free for users of OS 9.x (before X came out).

They said mac.com email was part of iTools.

They said the email would be for life.

I think that implies that email would be free for life, but only for the life of OS 9.

Steve jobs said OS 9 is dead (he even had a coffin I think!)

So, no more free email then??!!

Just my 2p.

Dobbin

sturm375

Jul 18, 2002, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by tjwett

Please, PC troll? First of all I've probably used Windows a total of 3 hours in my life. That's how much I like it. I have repeatedly shouted my disdain for Windows from this forum and many other places. I know Windows is awful. Hopefully it will stay out of my way long enough to do what I need. If not, I'll look elsewhere again. Yes, Windows sucks. But sadly, it's my best option right now. If that makes me troll then so be it. I call it looking out for my best interests.

Since you can't wait for Apple to get it's act together, and you still dispise windows, I have another option for you. Linux:)

Since I am not in the field you are, I don't know the specifics, however, I have seen (on The Screen Savers), some very good FREE!! Graphics, and Audio editing software for Linux. Also, if I am not mistaken, one of the major computer animation houses (PIXAR?) has moved exclusivly to Linux.

Since you are still new to windows, you won't lose much on the learning curve. And today's distrobutions of linux are almost as user-friendly as MS or Apple.

Some good distro's of Linux:
www.suse.com
www.redhat.com
www.mandrakelinux.com

And for free distro's to download:
www.linuxiso.org

Information at:
www.linux.org
www.linuxquestions.org

And find yourself a local users group, they're everywhere, and just as nice (sometimes nicer) than Mac users. Not only that, but you've already got something in common: Hatred of MS:D

Gelfin

Jul 18, 2002, 05:21 PM

You're a professional video editor with a substantial investment in hardware, software and process, and you're telling me that you're going to chuck all that in the bin and start over with PCs because Apple might not continue to give you a free email account?

Something about this story doesn't wash.

menoinjun

Jul 18, 2002, 05:21 PM

shut the hell up!

he he he

-pete

dobbin

Jul 18, 2002, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by me hate windows
I like this thread,:D it's been the most flamey and hatred spewing one for a long time.:)

yeah, I think the thought of having to cough up £200 in a month or so time has got a few people wound up!

I could nearly get an ipod for that!!!!

mcrain

Jul 18, 2002, 05:22 PM

All you business users who are complaining about the $129 cost of OSX 10.2 and the cost of the .Mac should really check your math.

Last time I checked (and considering my line of work, that was recently), you can deduct the cost of your business related hardware and software.

That means, Joe Public is really paying for part of your upgrade.

If you are a business, or are using it for business purposes, write the check, use the better software, and at the end of the year, go see your accountant.

As for the individual users, they don't have that luxury/benefit.

King Cobra

Jul 18, 2002, 05:24 PM

Harthansen, do you expect Apple to make a different OS for video editing and another for the general public? Apple does not focus on one specific area all the time, which is why you may not see a speed increase or change in the particular field you are in. Apple focuses on the general public, making Jaguar available to everyone. It focuses on trying to make your life easier by getting rid of all these bugs and speed issues, while adding features and other applications within the OS. If you find Jaguar to be too buggy for you as a video editor (assuming you have even tried Jaguar) then you obviously ****ed too much with your computer. I noticed the price tag of stuff you purchased for your Mac. Did you ever take a moment to think that you may have done something to cause these bugs or such? Have you tried running the utilities or refreshing your Hard Drive? Even if you did this on a peecee you will constantly get errors. And you say you have less problems with OS X and even fewer on heXPee? Then obviously you did something wrong with OS X. These errors would not come up unless you did something to your computer or the software, plain and simple. As for your speed comparisons, whatever they may be, you are still working on a buggy computer, a peecee.

On the upside, I'm glad to hear that you don't enjoy working on peecees and you like Macs better. Do you think it's humanly possible that you made some sort of error on OS X that ****ed up the computer? And do you really mind waiting for a new PowerMac in August?

Don't switch, man. The Mac World needs you. :cool:

backspinner

Jul 18, 2002, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by drastik
who cares what is called if it has the stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
even shakespeare new this. remember the famous words "what's in a name? that which we call a rose by any other would smell as sweet!"

guess he didn't care about version numbers of his scripts as well :D

mischief

Jul 18, 2002, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by dobbin
They said that iTools is free for users of OS 9.x (before X came out).

They said mac.com email was part of iTools.

They said the email would be for life.

I think that implies that email would be free for life, but only for the life of OS 9.

Steve jobs said OS 9 is dead (he even had a coffin I think!)

So, no more free email then??!!

Just my 2p.

Dobbin

Precisely!! So I can make the next jump in logic and guess that these whiners are all using 9 and have yet to research X in any real way?!?:eek:

tjwett

Jul 18, 2002, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by sturm375

Since you can't wait for Apple to get it's act together, and you still dispise windows, I have another option for you. Linux:)

Since I am not in the field you are, I don't know the specifics, however, I have seen (on The Screen Savers), some very good FREE!! Graphics, and Audio editing software for Linux. Also, if I am not mistaken, one of the major computer animation houses (PIXAR?) has moved exclusivly to Linux.

Since you are still new to windows, you won't lose much on the learning curve. And today's distrobutions of linux are almost as user-friendly as MS or Apple.

Some good distro's of Linux:
www.suse.com
www.redhat.com
www.mandrakelinux.com

And for free distro's to download:
www.linuxiso.org

Information at:
www.linux.org
www.linuxquestions.org

And find yourself a local users group, they're everywhere, and just as nice (sometimes nicer) than Mac users. Not only that, but you've already got something in common: Hatred of MS:D

dude, thanks for the heads up. unfortunately the software i use is only for Mac or PC. but sincere thanks for taking the time and realising my intentions here. i'm still interested in Linux as an OS and will checkout the links.

sneed

Jul 18, 2002, 05:47 PM

I have never heard or scene any reference that said those emails were free for life except in these forums. In fact, the only thing I have heard is that it would be free for OS9 users only.

Perhaps, someone here should start a new company that only provides free web services to replace .mac. They could call it ".lunch".

drastik

Jul 18, 2002, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by dobbin
They said that iTools is free for users of OS 9.x (before X came out).

They said mac.com email was part of iTools.

They said the email would be for life.

I think that implies that email would be free for life, but only for the life of OS 9.

Steve jobs said OS 9 is dead (he even had a coffin I think!)

So, no more free email then??!!

Just my 2p.

Dobbin

No offense Dobbin, but I can say anything I want on these boads and say its true. what I'm really looking for is somekind of proof.

sedulous2000

Jul 18, 2002, 06:04 PM

YOU CHEAP BASTARDS...ENJOY YOUR AMD GARBAGE, YOU KNOW OS X IS THE HOT ****!!!

Harthansen

Jul 18, 2002, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by cleo

This has got to be one of the more humorous "Apple is stealing from us!" posts in the past 24 hours. You're telling me you've spent, what, $12-15,000 on Macs in the past four years and yet don't have a measly $49 to keep your email address plus a bunch of cool extras?

Ugh, I hate stupid people.

I never said apple is stealing from us. Just that they are getting greedy. I buy a new one each year then sell the old one on ebay. So I really don't spend that much. I am not rich I make about $50,000 a year. It is not $49 that is just the suck you in price. It's $99 a year. The other cool things it includes I don't give a **** about they are all replaced by a CD-RW. I can get email address for much cheaper.
-H

Harthansen

Jul 18, 2002, 06:14 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Moxiemike
[B]

>A moronic customer jumping the gun without researching things. >Yes, you are a MORON. An Idiot. A whiner. Yes, I'm flaming you. >Why??? This is why:

>Converting your .Mac trial account to an email-only account

Ummm that option was not available when I started this thread. I called apple even to bitch oh sorry whine and they told me nothing of this option. I may be a whiner, but I am sure I am far smarter then you.

Harthansen

Jul 18, 2002, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by mcrain
All you business users who are complaining about the $129 cost of OSX 10.2 and the cost of the .Mac should really check your math.

Last time I checked (and considering my line of work, that was recently), you can deduct the cost of your business related hardware and software.

That means, Joe Public is really paying for part of your upgrade.

If you are a business, or are using it for business purposes, write the check, use the better software, and at the end of the year, go see your accountant.

As for the individual users, they don't have that luxury/benefit.

That is at best a 25% discount.

Moxiemike

Jul 18, 2002, 06:20 PM

Originally posted by Harthansen
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Moxiemike
[B]

>A moronic customer jumping the gun without researching things. >Yes, you are a MORON. An Idiot. A whiner. Yes, I'm flaming you. >Why??? This is why:

>Converting your .Mac trial account to an email-only account

Ummm that option was not available when I started this thread. I called apple even to bitch oh sorry whine and they told me nothing of this option. I may be a whiner, but I am sure I am far smarter then you.

Funny. When I called apple they told me that When my trial expires, i have the option of keeping my mac.com email account as an email-only account, and referenced me to that web page.

Bye bye bubba. Nice try. You obviously have no clue. Back to work for yoU! :)

I think you're lying.

kiwi_the_iwik

Jul 18, 2002, 06:25 PM

Originally posted by AlphaTech
Suck it up, and either pay for the upgraded account, don't pay, or downgrade it to JUST email. Either way, you need to stop whining about it. It makes you seem like a 5 year old throwing a temper tantrum. :p

Well, why don't you just bend over and let them "nail you one" in the process?

Let's talk about this:

1. It's not a MONTHLY outlay - it's yearly. Not everyone gets paid in $US - for example, the $(Australian) exchange rate SUCKS right now, and it's not as if you get much change out of $3500(AU) for even an iMac. So now, a lot of us can't justify the cost of shelling out more money for a service which has been expected from Apple right from the beginning, especially when we ALL know that Apple don't make their equipment cheap.

2. You don't get to keep your free .mac.com email account if you don't pay the money, and amend the email preferences file as it says in so many posts on this site. On www.xlr8yourmac.com they've done a bit of research, and found that you only gain a free email account if you sign on as a PAID user to start with... ...Hmmm.

3. OK - so you don't pay, and you can't get your free .mac.com email account. What about the incorporated Mail.app? It's been set up primarily for .mac.com anyway - so it seems like an incredible waste of space if you have to stuff around to find another POP account to link to.

4. And what if you've purchased the Applecare Protection Plan? Does all this mean that you can't access the iTools database, or use their discussion forums?

5. Some of us still don't have ADSL connections - and so the iDisk function is a complete waste of time, as it's painfully slow with a 56k modem.

6. What's the point of supplying antivirus protection, when Norton Anti Virus can take care of all your needs (as the industry standard)? AND it offers free updates via it's website using LiveUpdate. AND it's only a one-off payment.

7. Usually, if you've shopped around, you'll find that your ISP will normally supply you with a generous amount of webspace and/or storage space, including any number of email addresses, which is all included in the subscription fee. Why should I have to pay for the same thing twice? And whilst we're at it, a personalised web address STILL works out cheaper, with reasonably priced fees of between $10-$50 per year not unheard of, with free email accounts, and the option of having your personal webpage diverted from your ISP for free.

8. If you let this slide, when will it stop? As far as I'm concerned, you start how you mean to go on - and if Apple get away with this, it won't be long before you're paying for your software updates, or that they will only be available via the new .mac.com site. So we shouldn't be upset just because of the cost, but because of the precidence Apple are setting - and it's a dangerous one for us all.

Alpha, we should all be united in this. Read the threads around you - people are genuinely p!ssed at this. And Apple should at least LISTEN to the people who buy their products. After all - how can they possibly lose if they give us back the free email accounts? It could be one of the best ways of advertising on the net - a mac.com address shows not only your preference of computer, but also how loyal you can be to it...

...and that can't be a bad thing, can it?

Harthansen

Jul 18, 2002, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by Gelfin
You're a professional video editor with a substantial investment in hardware, software and process, and you're telling me that you're going to chuck all that in the bin and start over with PCs because Apple might not continue to give you a free email account?

Something about this story doesn't wash.

Hardware I can sell on ebay and build 2 top of the line PC's for the price. I have to buy all new software anyway to make it OS-X compatable. I am probally not gonna swtich from Apple. I am just pissed at alot of apple bullsh** of late. You flamers need to chill out. Do you guys have so much pent up anger that you need to take it out on here, and this guy I quoted was nice compared to some of the flames I've gotten. God chill out.
-Hart

Harthansen

Jul 18, 2002, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by Moxiemike

A moronic customer jumping the gun without researching things. Yes, you are a MORON. An Idiot. A whiner. Yes, I'm flaming you. Why??? This is why:

Converting your .Mac trial account to an email-only account

Apparently you need to take a look at the moron in the mirror because nothing you said is correct. I went to the links.
-Hart

Moxiemike

Jul 18, 2002, 06:31 PM

Originally posted by Harthansen

Apparently you need to take a look at the moron in the mirror because nothing you said is correct. I went to the links.
-Hart

This is the last time I talk to you. I posted stuff right from apple's site. You're a dumb ape, obviously.

Sun Baked

Jul 18, 2002, 06:32 PM

Make the switch to Amiga OS 4.0 - no more Apple, Linux, or MS to worry about - plus the faithful still claim it's the best computer and OS in the world.

Heck even the upgrade cycle for hardware and software so far has been a lot longer than anything else you'll ever find, lot's of savings there with fewer hw/sw upgrades.

Here's some pictures of the awsome new 600MHz G3 AmigaOne* to drool over.

http://www.eyetech.co.uk/amigaone/pics/a1g3se_t05ac2.jpg

Heck they're even offering an awsome $50 off coupon deal right now - which includes an Amiga t-shirt to show your support in a MS world - hurry the coupon only costs $50 right now.

* Case not included with purchase of an AmigaOne right now.

King Cobra

Jul 18, 2002, 06:33 PM

Harthansen, which to you is more reliable: Something posted on a website or a one-on-one over the phone? :cool:

Harthansen

Jul 18, 2002, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by King Cobra
Harthansen, do you expect Apple to make a different OS for video editing and another for the general public? Apple does not focus on one specific area all the time, which is why you may not see a speed increase or change in the particular field you are in. Apple focuses on the general public, making Jaguar available to everyone. It focuses on trying to make your life easier by getting rid of all these bugs and speed issues, while adding features and other applications within the OS. If you find Jaguar to be too buggy for you as a video editor (assuming you have even tried Jaguar) then you obviously ****ed too much with your computer. I noticed the price tag of stuff you purchased for your Mac. Did you ever take a moment to think that you may have done something to cause these bugs or such? Have you tried running the utilities or refreshing your Hard Drive? Even if you did this on a peecee you will constantly get errors. And you say you have less problems with OS X and even fewer on heXPee? Then obviously you did something wrong with OS X. These errors would not come up unless you did something to your computer or the software, plain and simple. As for your speed comparisons, whatever they may be, you are still working on a buggy computer, a peecee.

I don't think you guys are really reading my posts. I said I get far less crashes on OS-x then the PC. I give that to apple. I have not used Jaguar and never said I did. I realize that Jaguar was made with the consumer in mind. This does not bother me. I also assume the more stability has also been included in this up date. I did not do anything to my mac to cause it to crash more. I only use it for work. So all I have done is install software on it. I write programs, and build PC's so I am a basic computer dork. So if saomething is wrong I can usually fix it. It is not the crashing that I have the mjor problems with on OS-X. My major problems with OS-X is the ease of use that it has lost since it's switch from OS9. The fact that I have to buy all new software so that it will work with OS-X. Not only do I have to buy all new software, but all the plugins for the software I have I have to buy all new plug in's!!!! After Effects, final cut pro and Photoshop. All are not compatable with any of their OS9 plug ins. The same applies for Audio recording software. Do you know how much all that will cost.

drastik

Jul 18, 2002, 06:44 PM

ShaolinMiddleFinger

Jul 18, 2002, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by AlphaTech
you CAN get JUST email for free, :p

How?

King Cobra

Jul 18, 2002, 06:55 PM

A little mix-up on my part there, Harthansen. I thought that when you mentioned "OS-x is no where near as easy to use as OS 9.x with 9.x you had total control" there were problems with the software, causing such lack of ease of use. So forget that part.

>Do you know how much all that will cost.
Well, the upgrade to FCP from version 2 should be $299, I think. The Adobe plug-ins I'm not too sure about, and neither am I about the audio. But a guy like you can't afford to pay 4 digits for software if you make 50k a year? It's not like you're buying a car.

If you had the $$ would you get the software and stay with Macs?

Harthansen

Jul 18, 2002, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by Moxiemike

This is the last time I talk to you. I posted stuff right from apple's site. You're a dumb ape, obviously.

No you dumb piece of *****. Those links you posted do not bring you anywhere, but to mac.com's homepage. There is no option to get an email only account, unless you have already bought a .mac account!!! why don't you try reading! Do you need hooked on phonics? I am sure the local high school has night classes for thier slower students.
-Hart

Durandal7

Jul 18, 2002, 06:59 PM

If you have a problem with .mac discuss it here. We don't need 15 threads complaining about e-mail when one thread would do fine. Go nuts.

Harthansen

Jul 18, 2002, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by King Cobra
A little mix-up on my part there, Harthansen. I thought that when you mentioned "OS-x is no where near as easy to use as OS 9.x with 9.x you had total control" there were problems with the software, causing such lack of ease of use. So forget that part.

>Do you know how much all that will cost.
Well, the upgrade to FCP from version 2 should be $299, I think. The Adobe plug-ins I'm not too sure about, and neither am I about the audio. But a guy like you can't afford to pay 4 digits for software if you make 50k a year? It's not like you're buying a car.

If you had the $$ would you get the software and stay with Macs?

Your talking with all the upgrades I need, about the price of a top end powermac and powerbook. Those plug ins are $300+ each. $50,000 a year is not alot of money. Especially when I am spending alot on equiptment.
-Hart

ShaolinMiddleFinger

Jul 18, 2002, 07:03 PM

Originally posted by asurace
We don't need 15 threads

add this one.....16....come on people....let's make another one!

Good job, though, Asurace, I was thinking about doing the same but when I saw the one with 47 posts, mine wouldn't have mattered at that point.... Good luck on this one, though

King Cobra

Jul 18, 2002, 07:05 PM

Damn, that's harsh. But at least answer this: If you had the cash for the hardware/software, would you get that and stick with Macs and OS X?

Durandal7

Jul 18, 2002, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by ShaolinMiddleFinger

add this one.....16....come on people....let's make another one!

Ah, but hopefully people will stop posting them at this point ;)

zarathustra

Jul 18, 2002, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by tjwett

Forgive me. When I here "PC", I think "Windows". And I don't at all hate Apple. I've been a Mac user for many years. Never used anything else. And I did not intend to start a Mac vs PC war. I know NOTHING about PCs or Windows. I will not lie and say I wasn't a bit(very) peaved with today's announcements. And I definitely don't agree with whatever it is they are doing. The iTools(.mac) thing drives me nuts and if there is no upgrade price for 10.2 I'll chew my arm off. I don't think I'm alone in feeling a little left in the past with our current crop of hardware. Perhaps this is not the correct place to unload my anger for Apple but I already did, with no harm intended. I'm not expecting Windows to be a great experience by any means but if it can crunch numbers fast and cheap then I'll deal with it until something better comes along.

OK. Let me understand:

1. You have been into audio/video, assuming on a Mac.
2. Apple starts charging 49.00 for .Mac (a service that can be replaced)
3. $129 for an OS upgrade is enough to chew your arm off.
4. You buy two new Pentium systems for $2400 vs. $180 for upgrades , and abandon a system that even by your admission works best for you?

My only understanding of all this is that you are either pretending to be a professional audio/video mac user or you are just full of it.
I personally work on an "OLD" 400 Mhz system and, granted, sometimes it feels sluggish with a 900 MB photoshop file, but it's a proven tool that I can rely on.
Later.

Moxiemike

Jul 18, 2002, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by Harthansen

No you dumb piece of *****. Those links you posted do not bring you anywhere, but to mac.com's homepage. There is no option to get an email only account, unless you have already bought a .mac account!!! why don't you try reading! Do you need hooked on phonics? I am sure the local high school has night classes for thier slower students.
-Hart

I guess i have to spell it out moron:

Harthansen

Jul 18, 2002, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by King Cobra

If you had the $$ would you get the software and stay with Macs?

But yes I would and I probally will stay with the macs. I am just getting pissed at apple, and I want someone to invent a untopian computer that never crashes, the really fast and works perfect with all software. What apple really should do is make a version of OS-X for the PC. Then all would be great, because NO matter what I said on this post, I HATE Microsoft more then George W. Bush and thats pretty bad. Hell I own stock in Apple. There on my good side. The major complaint I have is apple's cost!!!

machagheid

Jul 18, 2002, 07:13 PM

Positive proof that Viagra can have disturbing side-effects?

King Cobra

Jul 18, 2002, 07:17 PM

Harthansen, I am quite certain you are not the only one. But, don't forget, if you want the best, you've gotta pay a price. It's like a brand new (whatever your favorite car is).

On the other hand, if you have ABSOLUTELY NO ALTERNATIVE and you have to switch to peecees, then I guess you've got to do it. The best of luck in the field and, especially, in trying to avoid all the bugs from the software.

I have a feeling you will always want Apple to remain the best. So check here as often as you can and diss your peecee every day it has problems. Deal. :cool:

Harthansen

Jul 18, 2002, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by Moxiemike

I guess i have to spell it out moron:

Well I guess I was wrong , but thats OK cause your still an As*hole I missed the help section that gave that explaination of what to do.
BUT! Why don't you try following those instructions there is not an Email account management button. This maybe a future upgrade, but you cannot perform this task now.
-Hart

madamimadam

Jul 18, 2002, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by Grokgod
I have to agree with TJWett!

The APPLE machines are in BAD shape!

The iMACS are not TOYS! I wish they were then at least they would be able to play games! like a toy should!

But they cant do that, they barely surf, thats not right for such an expensive machine. thats why they are sitting on warehouses and not being sold.

Along with the DP gigers!

Let's not be getting too silly now... I play some pretty hardcore games every once in a while on my PM533 with GeForce2MX and the iMac, esp. with 4MX, can, at bare minimum, keep up with my machine in one program situations. So, unless you are jumping back and forth between multiple 3D games at once, the iMac is more than capable.

I think you know just as well as I do that the iMacs are not being sold due to a downturn in the market. You are the one being "freakin ridiculous".

APPLE can start a collection of failed units.! They look good but are useless!

The COULD but it would not include the new iMac.... it is selling more units than most PCs.

Cant sell units so APPLE is gonna charge money for free email that they promised would be FREE FOR LIVE....did they think we forgot?

I don't ever remember being told it would be free for life just that it was free. And tell me, if there is a downturn in the economy and computer makers everywhere are disappearing, what should Apple do... sit back and go under as well??? Maybe they should charge for doing a service but give it to you for free.

Why the hell should Apple give anything away for free? I would like someone to answer that question. Apple has been far too nice to you people and you have become ungratful swine.

Pcheeses suck at video, NO doubt about it.
but what are the choices?

Reamed by M$ or A$$LE?

This is freakin ridiculous.

Pretty simple to me... Apple all way.

I am going to have to reconsider my entire life here!
ANd the way that I make money, because this is insane.

Reconsider your whole life because Apple wants you to pay for email.... jesus man, go out and get some sun, u been tucked inside to long. Go get yo some bitches.

Moxiemike

Jul 18, 2002, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by Harthansen

Well I guess I was wrong , but thats OK cause your still an As*hole I missed the help section that gave that explaination of what to do.
BUT! Why don't you try following those instructions there is not an Email account management button. This maybe a future upgrade, but you cannot perform this task now.
-Hart

Right and if you call aplpe and reference this, they'll let you know that you can "downgrade" to email only when your tiral expires. :) :) :)

chewbaccapits

Jul 18, 2002, 07:24 PM

some of you guys are so impatient....Want all this power and bitch when apple doesn't give you what you want.....I worked on Adam Sandler's 8 crazy nights (animated movie coming this Dec.) and was around the editing on Mr. Deeds, and both these two shows were edited entirely on an old power mac....9000 series I believe, it used an older version of avid software....Our editing suites were at Warner Bros. Feature Animation studio in Sherman Oaks, Calif., so I had the chance to see some of there shows....Everything from animation to reality tv shows, like elimidate, anyways, They all used g4 systems..more than likely dual processors...I don't know of the speed, but they had to be purchase around last year....The point of all this is that they edited HEAVY shows and it was all done on MACS...old mac or new mac ,doesn't matter, the stuff got done. what can are you DOING THAT YOU FEEL MACS HAVEN"T SUPPLIED ENOUGH POWER! Eventhough the PM haven't been bumped yet the other macs out there are still great. and don't start telling me that they're old and crap...because if the G5's came out yesterday...this time next year you would be bitching that the power is slim AGAIN.....I have my g4 450 that still whips ass...i use it for editing and animation...I still works wonders...The only compliant is that as soon as I bought it it became old hat and that feels real crappy....

But again, many of you come across as Apple hasn't done ****...In the last couple of years, they've done ALOT ( for lack of a better word). Don't you remember?

Moxiemike

Jul 18, 2002, 07:29 PM

madamimadam

Jul 18, 2002, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by chewbaccapits
some of you guys are so impatient....Want all this power and bitch when apple doesn't give you what you want.....I worked on Adam Sandler's 8 crazy nights (animated movie coming this Dec.) and was around the editing on Mr. Deeds, and both these two shows were edited entirely on an old power mac....9000 series I believe, it used an older version of avid software....Our editing suites were at Warner Bros. Feature Animation studio in Sherman Oaks, Calif., so I had the chance to see some of there shows....Everything from animation to reality tv shows, like elimidate, anyways, They all used g4 systems..more than likely dual processors...I don't know of the speed, but they had to be purchase around last year....The point of all this is that they edited HEAVY shows and it was all done on MACS...old mac or new mac ,doesn't matter, the stuff got done. what can are you DOING THAT YOU FEEL MACS HAVEN"T SUPPLIED ENOUGH POWER! Eventhough the PM haven't been bumped yet the other macs out there are still great. and don't start telling me that they're old and crap...because if the G5's came out yesterday...this time next year you would be bitching that the power is slim AGAIN.....I have my g4 450 that still whips ass...i use it for editing and animation...I still works wonders...The only compliant is that as soon as I bought it it became old hat and that feels real crappy....

But again, many of you come across as Apple hasn't done ****...In the last couple of years, they've done ALOT ( for lack of a better word). Don't you remember?

If I have 10 thumbs, they would all be up

King Cobra

Jul 18, 2002, 07:35 PM

Easy there, Mike. You don't need to go double trouble on this guy. :D

Mike, Hart, settle down already. The words are, plain and simple, you can still do email for free. You have to pay for the rest.

And lay off the language and name calling. I don't care who is wrong, but this type of senario doesn't belong here. As long as you two are part of Macrumors you have rules to follow. I'm not kissing up to arn, but, plain and simple, calm down.

madamimadam

Jul 18, 2002, 07:37 PM

http://www.macrumors.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=7886

Now you can shut the ******* up

tjwett

Jul 18, 2002, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by zarathustra

OK. Let me understand:

1. You have been into audio/video, assuming on a Mac.
2. Apple starts charging 49.00 for .Mac (a service that can be replaced)
3. $129 for an OS upgrade is enough to chew your arm off.
4. You buy two new Pentium systems for $2400 vs. $180 for upgrades , and abandon a system that even by your admission works best for you?

My only understanding of all this is that you are either pretending to be a professional audio/video mac user or you are just full of it.
I personally work on an "OLD" 400 Mhz system and, granted, sometimes it feels sluggish with a 900 MB photoshop file, but it's a proven tool that I can rely on.
Later.

First of all, the price issues with OSX and .Mac are not the reason for any of my decisions. They just p!ss me off on a personal level. iTools was told to be "free for life" and now it's $100 a year. Ofcourse I can afford to pay it but that's not the point. It's the principal of it. I don't know about you but I for one am not someone who allows people to screw me over, no matter how big or small the issue is. You can get the shaft from Apple all you want, but I choose not to. And I didn't "abandon" Apple. Jesus Christ man, I don't know Apple. We're not married. Why do I owe them my loyalty or anything else for that matter? If I'm not happy with something I get something else. That's why I live in America. I'm not going to continue to buy from a company just to keep them going. If I knew people would get so emotional over a computer I never would have posted anything at all. And by the way, you should never assume anything about people that you don't know. I wouldn't waste my time defendnig my profession, spending habits, or personal decisions to a faceless nickname on an internet message board. I've better things to do. As you can see from any of my posts in the past, I've NEVER directed negative comments towards anyone on this forum. Anything bad I have to say is usually about computers and related topics. Personal comments are childish and I don't go there. I suggest you do the same. It blows my mind the way people freak when you say anything bad about Apple, even if it's true. At the end of the day, it's just another company making tools.

Moxiemike

Jul 18, 2002, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by King Cobra
Easy there, Mike. You don't need to go double trouble on this guy. :D

Mike, Hart, settle down already. The words are, plain and simple, you can still do email for free. You have to pay for the rest.

And lay off the language and name calling. I don't care who is wrong, but this type of senario doesn't belong here. As long as you two are part of Macrumors you have rules to follow. I'm not kissing up to arn, but, plain and simple, calm down.

I hear ya. I just hate how people jump to conclusions without researching fully.

madamimadam

Jul 18, 2002, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by tjwett
Personal comments are childish and I don't go there. I suggest you do the same.

tjwett... learn to spell, the word is "twatt"

tjwett

Jul 18, 2002, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen

tjwett... learn to spell, the word is "twatt"

priceless!

Mr. Anderson

Jul 18, 2002, 08:27 PM

I've recently come to realize that we're all running around like a bunch of spoiled kids, yelling and screaming, because some one stole our candy.

We had a good run - I have 8 iDisk accounts that i use for movies and photos, all for free. Well, I'll have to find somewhere else to put it now. I know I'm not the only one and I don't use it for an email account, I've got two domains for that.

I think people need to relax and think about what they're complaining about.

sneed

Jul 18, 2002, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by tjwett

As you can see from any of my posts in the past, I've NEVER directed negative comments towards anyone on this forum. Anything bad I have to say is usually about computers and related topics. Personal comments are childish and I don't go there. I suggest you do the same. It blows my mind the way people freak when you say anything bad about Apple, even if it's true. At the end of the day, it's just another company making tools.

You certainly have made negative comments. Perhaps not to anyone specifically, but to everyone who doesn't particularly agree with you about Apple.

I am just fine with Apple, and where it's going. Does that make me a spoiled child?

If I can do my job with the equipment I have, does that mean I'm not a pro user like you?

Chewbaccapits gave you pretty specific creds, is he the faceless nickname?

This is, unless I am mistaken, a forum, and if you are going to make anti-mac comments here, then you should expect a response. If you don't have the time to defend yourself, don't make the comments. What did you expect by starting the thread? That everyone would clap and cheer, and offer you a ride on their shoulders? For Christ's Sake, if you are going to swtich to a PC, just do it.

First its that apple treated you wrong, now its the forums that treated you wrong. Well, it must be rough being you. Have fun on your new machines, and save the inflammatory comments for Microsoft support.

MacAztec

Jul 18, 2002, 08:54 PM

Its so funny just reading your posts.

I could bet you a million dollars that you will not get anything done faster on your AMDs than if you had a mac. I mean, you do not do that intensive work! Pixar makes hard core graphic movies, and they use macs.

What do you make...animations? Do you make the sounds for "Bevis and Butthead?"

mmmdreg

Jul 18, 2002, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by ptrauber
shut the hell up!

he he he

-pete
Yeah shutup everyone..stop whinging at each other...BTW, that email account only switching thing is obviously not available yet so just be patient till it comes...after all, patience is a virtue..

tjwett

Jul 18, 2002, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by sneed

You certainly have made negative comments. Perhaps not to anyone specifically, but to everyone who doesn't particularly agree with you about Apple.

I am just fine with Apple, and where it's going. Does that make me a spoiled child?

If I can do my job with the equipment I have, does that mean I'm not a pro user like you?

Chewbaccapits gave you pretty specific creds, is he the faceless nickname?

This is, unless I am mistaken, a forum, and if you are going to make anti-mac comments here, then you should expect a response. If you don't have the time to defend yourself, don't make the comments. What did you expect by starting the thread? That everyone would clap and cheer, and offer you a ride on their shoulders? For Christ's Sake, if you are going to swtich to a PC, just do it.

First its that apple treated you wrong, now its the forums that treated you wrong. Well, it must be rough being you. Have fun on your new machines, and save the inflammatory comments for Microsoft support.

Allright, what the fu*k are you talking about? First, I specifically said that I've never made negative comments towards individuals. That means personal remarks, insults, etc. I haven't, yet. I would never ***** on someone for diagreeing with me. I think you have your parties reversed. And what is a "Chewbaccapits"? I take it that's someone on the forum but my reply was aimed at the individual who said "either you are pretending to blah blah blah, or you are just full of it". I said that I don't go around proving myself to strangers(faceless nicknames) and where I come from people don't assume or make accusations unless they know who/what they are talking about. Everyone on here is a faceless nickname. Me, and you, and everyone else. We are a bunch of strangers typing to eachother and we sure as hell can't see eachother. We are known by a nickname and maybe an avatar. Get it? Faceless Straangers? Does it make any sense to you yet? Do and say whatever you like. I do. But do not, ever, put words into my mouth or think that you can have the right of speaking for me.

King Cobra

Jul 18, 2002, 09:01 PM

You better be real rich, Aztec. The games on peecees, for some reason, beat out game play on Macs. I just read a review of a $30 road rage game for the Mac and if you have a 400MHz computer or slower, and less than, basically, 800MB of space, you're gonna have problems. You need such a fast computer just to get smooth gameplay.

For the rest...lots of luck, plain and simple.

I'm so sick of people whinning like this, so let me put it this way:
For those, who just all of a sudden got sick of Apple because of some .mac charges, a pricey OS upgrade and no new PowerMacs, and want to get a peecee so bad, grow a ****ing d!!k. I'm not too sure if this applies to anyone here, since I don't want to waste my time reading this bullcrap, but for anyone who just WANTS to switch to a peecee and doesn't NEED to switch, grow one.

tjwett

Jul 18, 2002, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by MacAztec
Its so funny just reading your posts.

I could bet you a million dollars that you will not get anything done faster on your AMDs than if you had a mac. I mean, you do not do that intensive work! Pixar makes hard core graphic movies, and they use macs.

What do you make...animations? Do you make the sounds for "Bevis and Butthead?"

Yes, you are right. I make the sounds for Beavis and Butthead and construction paper animations. What do you do?

King Cobra

Jul 18, 2002, 09:06 PM

In other news, well done on 500, mmmdreg! :D

What do you plan to use for an avatar?

tjwett

Jul 18, 2002, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by tjwett

Yes, you are right. I make the sounds for Beavis and Butthead and construction paper animations. What do you do?

Yes, you are right. I make the sounds for Beavis and Butthead and construction paper animations. I also make stuff out of macaroni and play doh.
What do you do? Oh wait, that's right. I don't care.

King Cobra

Jul 18, 2002, 09:10 PM

>>(tjwett)Yes, you are right. I make the sounds for Beavis and Butthead and construction paper animations. What do you do?
>(tjwett)Yes, you are right. I make the sounds for Beavis and Butthead and construction paper animations. I also make stuff out of macaroni and play doh.
What do you do? Oh wait, that's right. I don't care.

I think you are really starting to get on everyone's nerves. I wouldn't be surprised if someone has already suggested you be banned. So far, you've done worse than refer to yourself in the 3rd person. :cool:

sneed

Jul 18, 2002, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by tjwett

Allright, what the fu*k are you talking about? First, I specifically said that I've never made negative comments towards individuals. That means personal remarks, insults, etc. I haven't, yet. I would never ***** on someone for diagreeing with me. I think you have your parties reversed. And what is a "Chewbaccapits"? I take it that's someone on the forum but my reply was aimed at the individual who said "either you are pretending to blah blah blah, or you are just full of it". I said that I don't go around proving myself to strangers(faceless nicknames) and where I come from people don't assume or make accusations unless they know who/what they are talking about. Everyone on here is a faceless nickname. Me, and you, and everyone else. We are a bunch of strangers typing to eachother and we sure as hell can't see eachother. We are known by a nickname and maybe an avatar. Get it? Faceless Straangers? Does it make any sense to you yet? Do and say whatever you like. I do. But do not, ever, put words into my mouth or think that you can have the right of speaking for me.

If we are all a bunch of faceless stangers, than how can any of these comments be considered personal? Hmmmm?

You tell me I can say whatever I like (thanks for the permission BTW,) but you seem perfectly willing to tell me all the things I can't say. As to your edicts, I haven't put words in your mouth, but I will interpret what you have said however I please, so far as you make them publicly.

As to whether or not I get it? I certainly do get it. More than that, I get you. I may not know your name, but I know who you are.

Pin-Fisher

Jul 18, 2002, 09:15 PM

Pin-Fisher is gettin upset :D

tjwett

Jul 18, 2002, 09:16 PM

Originally posted by King Cobra
You better be real rich, Aztec. The games on peecees, for some reason, beat out game play on Macs. I just read a review of a $30 road rage game for the Mac and if you have a 400MHz computer or slower, and less than, basically, 800MB of space, you're gonna have problems. You need such a fast computer just to get smooth gameplay.

For the rest...lots of luck, plain and simple.

I'm so sick of people whinning like this, so let me put it this way:
For those, who just all of a sudden got sick of Apple because of some .mac charges, a pricey OS upgrade and no new PowerMacs, and want to get a peecee so bad, grow a ****ing d!!k. I'm not too sure if this applies to anyone here, since I don't want to waste my time reading this bullcrap, but for anyone who just WANTS to switch to a peecee and doesn't NEED to switch, grow one.

I don't think anyone could possibly WANT to switch to PC. I truly feel that I NEED to and no one can seem to handle it. I'm not happy about it but I set a time limit and what I needed never surfaced. You would think these people are having sex with their computers the way the get so upset. Oh my God! Apple is going to lose a customer! This person can't work with the current PowerMacs? They must be a fu@!$*#^ ass&*@#! Do you think Apple thinks this much about you people? Give me a break. They don't care. Apple wouldn't piss you out if you were on fire. There must be something else in your lives besides these computers. Right?

MacAztec

Jul 18, 2002, 09:18 PM

What do you do? Really? I mean, what needs all this power? Anyone can say "video and sound."

LOL

I knew I was right...cheapo.

tjwett

Jul 18, 2002, 09:26 PM

Originally posted by King Cobra
>>(tjwett)Yes, you are right. I make the sounds for Beavis and Butthead and construction paper animations. What do you do?
>(tjwett)Yes, you are right. I make the sounds for Beavis and Butthead and construction paper animations. I also make stuff out of macaroni and play doh.
What do you do? Oh wait, that's right. I don't care.

I think you are really starting to get on everyone's nerves. I wouldn't be surprised if someone has already suggested you be banned. So far, you've done worse than refer to yourself in the 3rd person. :cool:

Must have hit the wrong button or something. Anyway, go ahead and ban me. Do me a favor. Before I wind up like the rest of you. Back in my parents basement, living by the gospel according to Steve. Ban me before I get to 4000 posts on a silly internet message board and actually take time out of my day to create an animated avatar. You are probably a bunch of overweight, undersexed, Star Wars fanatics or something. Please, I want out of this club of zeroes. Ban me! Then everybody go get some sense, and get a life. Atleast get out of the house. And don't wear your wizard cape from Saturday night's D&D tournament. Have fun you saps.

madamimadam

Jul 18, 2002, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by tjwett

I don't think anyone could possibly WANT to switch to PC. I truly feel that I NEED to and no one can seem to handle it. I'm not happy about it but I set a time limit and what I needed never surfaced. You would think these people are having sex with their computers the way the get so upset. Oh my God! Apple is going to lose a customer! This person can't work with the current PowerMacs? They must be a fu@!$*#^ ass&*@#! Do you think Apple thinks this much about you people? Give me a break. They don't care. Apple wouldn't piss you out if you were on fire. There must be something else in your lives besides these computers. Right?

I am sorry, I think I hear a kettle calling a pot black. "Do not, ever, put words into my mouth or think that you can have the right of speaking for me." You would have no idea whether people want to switch or not you "fu@!$*#^ ass&*@#".

"There must be something else in your lives besides these computers. Right?"

I could ask you the same thing... you're the one getting all upset because you did not get a faster PowerMac that looks and sounds cool while not being used at 100% capacity.

King Cobra

Jul 18, 2002, 09:28 PM

>Pin-Fisher is gettin upset :D
ROTFLMAO! Cute...

> I don't think anyone could possibly WANT to switch to PC. I truly feel that I NEED to and no one can seem to handle it.... Apple wouldn't piss you out if you were on fire. There must be something else in your lives besides these computers. Right?

If you NEED a peecee, but you still enjoy Macs a lot more, then you don't deserve to get yelled at. I only brought it up because I saw some people making threads, who, I think, were switching because of some unexpected/disappointing things announced (or not announced) at MWNY. If you are just impatient and want a new computer right now—you can't wait a GD month—you fall under the catagory of not having "one".

But it just seems that you are absolutely up in arms about this. Take a damn blue pepsi and calm down already. I really should offer you two of these.

madamimadam

Jul 18, 2002, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by King Cobra
>Pin-Fisher is gettin upset :D
ROTFLMAO! Cute...

> I don't think anyone could possibly WANT to switch to PC. I truly feel that I NEED to and no one can seem to handle it.... Apple wouldn't piss you out if you were on fire. There must be something else in your lives besides these computers. Right?

If you NEED a peecee, but you still enjoy Macs a lot more, then you don't deserve to get yelled at. I only brought it up because I saw some people making threads, who, I think, were switching because of some unexpected/disappointing things announced (or not announced) at MWNY. If you are just impatient and want a new computer right now—you can't wait a GD month—you fall under the catagory of not having "one".

But it just seems that you are absolutely up in arms about this. Take a damn blue pepsi and calm down already. I really should offer you two of these.

You and ur ***** blue pepsi
:)

sneed

Jul 18, 2002, 09:33 PM

Without having to work to hard at it, what system have you been using for your AV work? Any acceleration hardware? Your profile says you have ti550 and a cube 450, anything else?

Just curious.

King Cobra

Jul 18, 2002, 09:36 PM

Well, allen, if you don't like our special blue why don't you try one of our other famous brand colors? :D :D

sneed

Jul 18, 2002, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by King Cobra
Well, allen, if you don't like our special blue why don't you try one of our other famous brand colors? :D :D

I'll take green

King Cobra

Jul 18, 2002, 09:40 PM

>I'll take green

One green pepsi coming up! :D

madamimadam

Jul 18, 2002, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by King Cobra
Well, allen, if you don't like our special blue why don't you try one of our other famous brand colors? :D :D

hhhmmmm.... that purple does look pretty tempting.
LOL

I just wish they would bring Vanilla Coke to Oz
:)

Don't have purple vanilla pepsi do ya?

King Cobra

Jul 18, 2002, 09:45 PM

>Don't have purple vanilla pepsi do ya?
Actually, I do have it available. But if I PMed you about where to get it, I would have to kill you. :D :D

tjwett

Jul 18, 2002, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by sneed
Without having to work to hard at it, what system have you been using for your AV work? Any acceleration hardware? Your profile says you have ti550 and a cube 450, anything else?

Just curious.
work-800, dual 533, 933, SCSI HDs and a TC PowerCore card recently. home-sold the cube on eBay long ago. selling the 550 now.

sneed

Jul 18, 2002, 09:57 PM

No accelleration?

madamimadam

Jul 18, 2002, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by tjwett

work-800, dual 533, 933, SCSI HDs and a TC PowerCore card recently. home-sold the cube on eBay long ago. selling the 550 now.

Jesus Christ.... you are not clustering why???

Why buy PCs when you could link up everything you have.

tjwett

Jul 18, 2002, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen

Jesus Christ.... you are not clustering why???

Why buy PCs when you could link up everything you have.

as i said earlier, i run network renders in all software that allows.

sparkleytone

Jul 18, 2002, 10:16 PM

when's the last time hp/compaq/dell/m$ gave us free webspace, email, etc without ever really having to buy a computer of theirs in the first place??

whats that??

oh yeah...never.

just quit your ****ing bitching and know your role. there comes a time when a company needs to be concerned about the return its getting on major investments like...say...operating systems. getting what YOU want and your favorite computer company actually surviving thru a financial winter are somehow connected :rolleyes:

YOU! Out of the gene pool.

sneed

Jul 18, 2002, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by sneed
No accelleration?

... for video I mean. So are you keeping your towers? If so, or if not even, you may want to bulk up your support hardware. Then you'll see a boost. You're doing After Effects right? Try ICEing it before you make the big move.

Sounds like your audio solution should be treating you right tho.

How are you managing your storage drives?

sparkleytone

Jul 18, 2002, 10:20 PM

you have a business?? write off the expense of iTools. simple. you might just have a cut down on all those private "functions" at seedy motels. i mean, yeah i guess they do function as "studios" for ya.:rolleyes:

tjwett

Jul 18, 2002, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by sneed

... for video I mean. So are you keeping your towers? If so, or if not even, you may want to bulk up your support hardware. Then you'll see a boost. You're doing After Effects right? Try ICEing it before you make the big move.

Sounds like your audio solution should be treating you right tho.

How are you managing your storage drives?

ICE boards are like six grand a piece. i run a small outfit and simply can't do it. plus i already have a lot of the extras that they throw in to jack up the price. it's not really an option for me right now. the towers are still there. i guess i'll let them "race" and who ever wins stays. for the PCs, i went Carillon.

sneed

Jul 18, 2002, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by tjwett

ICE boards are like six grand a piece. i run a small outfit and simply can't do it. plus i already have a lot of the extras that they throw in to jack up the price. it's not really an option for me right now.

I have seen them listed for half that... but good luck to you anyway. I hope the new system(s) meets your expectations (although they seem a little high. :) )

Durandal7

Jul 18, 2002, 11:00 PM

Originally posted by dukestreet
IWe had a good run - I have 8 iDisk accounts that i use for movies and photos, all for free. Well, I'll have to find somewhere else to put it now. I know I'm not the only one and I don't use it for an email account, I've got two domains for that.

I think people need to relax and think about what they're complaining about.

Whenever I sign up for a free internet service, I keep in mind that odds are it won't last forever. iDisk is no different.

Porkepik

Jul 18, 2002, 11:11 PM

I Was just reading this thread and just what to add my comment,

-about gaming, i have a 3 years old pc pentium 3 500 Mhz, a geforce 2 card and i am still playing every game that comes out (maybe not at 1600*1200 but nearly all graphical option maxed out, it is still playable currently playing warcraft 3) so i don't see what need i have for a 2 gig system, switched last year to playstation 2, cost less than a new pc graphic card (geforce 4 ti) that should goes along with an high end pc, and looks better most of the time on my big screen tv.

- I am going to buy an apple computer in september (birthday present to my wife and me) because i will need a solution to make some video editing. I looked at the pc side and it cost about the same for what i need to do (basic stufff with a mini dv camera i just bought (we are having a child early 2003) and i need to burn it on dvd so i can send it to my parents (i live in canada, they live in belgium) that the easiest solution to give them news of their soon to be grandchild. My stepfather is a mac afficcionado and he convinced me to buy a mac (steve jobs did it also last macworld in SF january 2002) . I wanted to have a simple solution for my basic video editing needs I will not have a pc coz (bugging too often when doing video work or anything else on it, don't want to miss too many dvd or be lost in a program, idvd is just what i need) just also bought an epson perfection 1650 photo scanner and the pc won't even start if i let it plugged when starting the pc+bugging after some video editing with photoshop elements.
So even if the mac doesn't render as fast as a pc my video effects, i am pretty confident it will be less troublesome than a pc based solution
It will mainly be my wifes computer and she doesn't want me to put games on it, so what except games and professional rendering is good to have a 2.5 Ghz PC. Office works flawlessly on my 500 Mhz PC i suppose it will be the same on a 800 or more Mhz machine

So the point is I am switching side, SJ got me and my money i just have to decide what to buy. I'am hesitating between the new 17inch imac or a powermac (smallest currently 800 Mhz hoping some change before the end of september). I already have a 20 inch trinitron screen. So what do you reccomend me, the imac or a base powermac if a new model comes out before my buying.

Thanks for your opinions

madamimadam

Jul 19, 2002, 12:01 AM

Originally posted by tjwett

as i said earlier, i run network renders in all software that allows.

The problem there is that an application has to be written with network rendering functionality and GUI ect. There is more chance, depending on the programs you use, that you can render on a render farm (cluster).

Unless you are rendering in something like Bryce, you should have a ****load of power in front of you.

tjwett

Jul 19, 2002, 01:10 AM

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen

The problem there is that an application has to be written with network rendering functionality and GUI ect. There is more chance, depending on the programs you use, that you can render on a render farm (cluster).

Unless you are rendering in something like Bryce, you should have a ****load of power in front of you.

i have one machine designated to just audio running OS9 mainly. the single 800. it does good with the TCPowerCore(uses Moto PPCs too) running the DSP for those plugins but it doesn't help with Logic's effects which are pretty hungry. i'm still very limited for stereo tracks, effects, and VStis. some projects could need over 20 stereo tracks at any given time and the machine really does struggle. plus the FireWire interface seems to be pretty CPU taxing. the dual 533 actually does better with the audio but i thought it would be better to get the dual rendering AE in OSX with 5.5. AE needs a network render or i'm taking 20 minute breaks every half hour ; ) Lightwave too but this is used rarely since i pretty much suck at 3D and avoid it at all costs. i pretty much work off the 933 and the 533 helps out with renders. i tried a few different setups and this seemed to be the most productive. unfortunately for me, ICE is out of the question. the best i could do so far is the fast HDs. like i said, this is a small shop and fairly new, but we're getting some pretty demanding work. i made good contacts at my day job and they are rolling in and we are getting tied up. some serious speed would do wonders. if you have any suggestions i'd love to hear them. if it makes any difference, we have to do a good amount of stuff in PAL format. people keep telling me to just stay in OS9 all the time but I don't know. the working environment is nicer in X but the performance is slow. what's the trade off?

madamimadam

Jul 19, 2002, 01:25 AM

Originally posted by tjwett

i have one machine designated to just audio running OS9 mainly. the single 800. it does good with the TCPowerCore(uses Moto PPCs too) running the DSP for those plugins but it doesn't help with Logic's effects which are pretty hungry. i'm still very limited for stereo tracks, effects, and VStis. some projects could need over 20 stereo tracks at any given time and the machine really does struggle. plus the FireWire interface seems to be pretty CPU taxing. the dual 533 actually does better with the audio but i thought it would be better to get the dual rendering AE in OSX with 5.5. AE needs a network render or i'm taking 20 minute breaks every half hour ; ) Lightwave too but this is used rarely since i pretty much suck at 3D and avoid it at all costs. i pretty much work off the 933 and the 533 helps out with renders. i tried a few different setups and this seemed to be the most productive. unfortunately for me, ICE is out of the question. the best i could do so far is the fast HDs. like i said, this is a small shop and fairly new, but we're getting some pretty demanding work. i made good contacts at my day job and they are rolling in and we are getting tied up. some serious speed would do wonders. if you have any suggestions i'd love to hear them. if it makes any difference, we have to do a good amount of stuff in PAL format. people keep telling me to just stay in OS9 all the time but I don't know. the working environment is nicer in X but the performance is slow. what's the trade off?

If this is the case, what you need is not to SWITCH from Mac to PC but to buy some cheap PC workhorses. Maybe a DP PIII set up or 2.... they come dirt cheap and all you would have them to is net render.

tjwett

Jul 19, 2002, 02:13 AM

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen

If this is the case, what you need is not to SWITCH from Mac to PC but to buy some cheap PC workhorses. Maybe a DP PIII set up or 2.... they come dirt cheap and all you would have them to is net render.

if i could make this happen smoothly i'd be into it. what are the implications of a cross-platform render? or should i just let the PCs do ALL the rendering? would the storage need to be distributed across all 2(or4) machines?

madamimadam

Jul 19, 2002, 03:25 AM

Originally posted by tjwett

if i could make this happen smoothly i'd be into it. what are the implications of a cross-platform render? or should i just let the PCs do ALL the rendering? would the storage need to be distributed across all 2(or4) machines?

Well, you are gonna need a copy of the software for PC. Then you can render on all the machines at the same time and the render machines (inc. PCs) will just need a HDD big enough to support the OS and the temp render files plus how ever much RAM you think it needs for rendering.

dobbin

Jul 19, 2002, 06:48 AM

No offence taken :D

I haven't got proof here, but I'm fairly sure about the first 3 statements I made. I will check them later - I think I've got all the original boxes and leaflets etc in my garage. It may be of course that I'm remembering things I read here that didn't come from Apple.

Its the logical implications of the three statements that is the key. Can we deduce 'free email for life' from those three statements if I can prove that Apple said them.

I fact I don't think we can deduce that after all - but it's been a while since I learnt logic :D

I'll come back later and tell you what APPLE actually said, rather than what I think they said.

Cheers,

Dobbin

dobbin

Jul 19, 2002, 06:52 AM

Originally posted by Moxiemike

I guess i have to spell it out moron:

That help page has now changed. It now says the following:

Converting your .Mac trial account to an email-only account
IMPORTANT: If you want to convert your .Mac trial account to an email-only account, you cannot do this directly. You must have a full .Mac member, who has purchased an additional email-only account, include your converted account as part of their membership. Once your trial account has been converted, all your data files (except for your email messages) will be removed from Apple's servers. Other .Mac services, such as iDisk, HomePage, Backup, and Virex, are not accessible to email-only accounts.

To convert someone else's trial account to email-only, you must be a full .Mac member who has purchased an additional email-only account. Go to www.mac.com, click Account in the .Mac menu bar, then click the Email Account Management button. Enter the member name and password of the trial account you want to convert, then click Convert.

Print the email-only account information for future reference, then click Continue.

dobbin

Jul 19, 2002, 06:58 AM

You can get email for free if you've got a friend who has signed up for .mac

This is from the help section on www.mac.com

Converting your .Mac trial account to an email-only account

IMPORTANT: If you want to convert your .Mac trial account to an email-only account, you cannot do this directly. You must have a full .Mac member, who has purchased an additional email-only account, include your converted account as part of their membership. Once your trial account has been converted, all your data files (except for your email messages) will be removed from Apple's servers. Other .Mac services, such as iDisk, HomePage, Backup, and Virex, are not accessible to email-only accounts.

To convert someone else's trial account to email-only, you must be a full .Mac member who has purchased an additional email-only account. Go to www.mac.com, click Account in the .Mac menu bar, then click the Email Account Management button. Enter the member name and password of the trial account you want to convert, then click Convert.

Print the email-only account information for future reference, then click Continue.

peterjhill

Jul 19, 2002, 07:55 AM

Originally posted by nemes1ss
How do they expect for us to pay $100 for .Mac every year?

With a credit card...

As for it being a yearly payment, well, get a piggy bank, and every week put 2 freakin dollars in it. Then When your payment is due, charge in your credit card, or whatever, then take the money from your piggy bank and use it to pay off the card. Then take the extra 4 dollars and buy a pint of Ben and Jerry's.

Now, I don't love the idea that I have to pay for this. I do think that they should allow you to have multiple email accounts that share the same .mac account. I did notice when I used the backup program, that it put files in a backup folder, and in that was a user folder, and in that was a folder for my account on my powerbook. It would be nice if my wife could have her own email address and share my quota. I don't need 15 MB, I keep all my mail in an imap folder that is part of my work email account, where I have a 200 MB quota. Also if she wants to make iPhoto web pages, it would be nice if she could use my account for that also, but with her own user name and password.

$100 is not bad, but it is not worth it to get an account for everyone in a family at all.

MacSawdust

Jul 19, 2002, 08:04 AM

I'm sure I'll end up paying, but I think I'll wait until the last minute. I hope others do the same - let Apple sweat for a little bit.

j763

Jul 19, 2002, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by sneed
I have never heard or scene any reference that said those emails were free for life except in these forums. In fact, the only thing I have heard is that it would be free for OS9 users only.

Perhaps, someone here should start a new company that only provides free web services to replace .mac. They could call it ".lunch".

...or just call it iTools...

kiwi_the_iwik

Jul 19, 2002, 09:18 AM

I like how some of you are saying "...it's only $100 per year..."

OK - fine. You split it up, it's not a lot. But if I intend to pay £30 per month for an ADSL account, a further £300 for an Airport system, and a few extra add-ons for the Cube, like a Bluetooth adaptor (no price yet...), a 4-port USB (£35), a Griffin iMic (£42), a PowerMate (£45), a 120Gb internal hard drive (£220), a DVD writer (£450), and a 1Ghz processor upgrade card (£450), then it's just an unnecessary expense...

...it's also more ammunition for my wife to use when she complains about how my computer has turned into a money pit - and that there's no reason why I should spend so much on that damned thing when "...the kitchen needs to be renovated instead..."

:rolleyes:

8thDegreeSavage

Jul 19, 2002, 09:36 AM

I have decided to borrow a copy of 10.2....thats how im going to show Jobs how impressed i am.

topicolo

Jul 19, 2002, 09:51 AM

I think you guys are all overreacting. Apple is charging is loyal fanbase more because it is preparing for something big... The new switch ads are a pretty good indication of where Apple's going. I think sooner or later, it's gonna end up being a massive assault on the wintel fortress, and Apple needs to stock its war coffers.

backspinner

Jul 19, 2002, 09:54 AM

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2000/jan/05netstrategy.html

backspinner

Jul 19, 2002, 09:56 AM

from the link above:

...

iTools is free to Macintosh® users running the Mac OS 9 operating system, and can be accessed at Apple.com using any Internet connection. Apple’s first four iTools premiere today:

* KidSafe...

* Mac.com, an email service run by Apple. Mac.com gives users an exclusive address on the Internet and works with standard POP email clients, such as Outlook Express, Eudora and Netscape Communicator. Mac.com users can easily set up automatic replies and forwarding of their email to other email addresses, and configure Outlook Express for their Mac.com mailbox from a simple web page;

* iDisk, 20 megabytes of personal Internet-based storage on Apple’s Internet Servers. iDisk is an entirely new way to store, transfer and share files over the Internet, and it’s as easy as using a folder on your Mac® desktop; and

* HomePage...

...

peterjhill

Jul 19, 2002, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by 8thDegreeSavage
I have decided to borrow a copy of 10.2....thats how im going to show Jobs how impressed i am.

Oh, boy, I am so impressed with you, that you are going to STEAL software. wow, cool. It isn't like the developers that wrote all that software are working for money or anything. No, they are donating their time and knowledge. They have all decided to default on their student loans, because they don't want to get distracted from their job of making software so that you can use it for free.

strider42

Jul 19, 2002, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by dobbin
You can get email for free if you've got a friend who has signed up for .mac

This is from the help section on www.mac.com

Converting your .Mac trial account to an email-only account

IMPORTANT: If you want to convert your .Mac trial account to an email-only account, you cannot do this directly. You must have a full .Mac member, who has purchased an additional email-only account, include your converted account as part of their membership. Once your trial account has been converted, all your data files (except for your email messages) will be removed from Apple's servers. Other .Mac services, such as iDisk, HomePage, Backup, and Virex, are not accessible to email-only accounts.

To convert someone else's trial account to email-only, you must be a full .Mac member who has purchased an additional email-only account. Go to www.mac.com, click Account in the .Mac menu bar, then click the Email Account Management button. Enter the member name and password of the trial account you want to convert, then click Convert.

Print the email-only account information for future reference, then click Continue.

ahh, but if you do this, your email account is an add on to your friends account. If they stop subscribing to the .mac service, what happens to your account.

Also, I believe its a 10 dollar charge for additional email addresses on an account.

eyelikeart

Jul 19, 2002, 11:19 AM

ok...there are simply too many new threads being created about your disappointments...so I've condensed them all into one since they all revolve around bitching & whining...

please do not start anymore new threads simply to whine about it... :rolleyes:

Mr. Anderson

Jul 19, 2002, 11:27 AM

aahhwww, come on! I want to wine some more - or actually, I want some more wine.....

sorry, had to :D

mischief

Jul 19, 2002, 11:49 AM

between Whine and Jeez on this site....

I've also noticed that, for the most part it's Newbie/Zealots who are whining.

Be on the lookout for whiney Zealots!!

They are lame and extremely inneffectual!

Distinguishing characteristics include a lack of motivation to actually FIX whatever their gripe is, a strong need to be a victim, no desire to research beyond the next barstool, an affinity for conspiracy theorties and an irrational desire to get everything handed to them because their parents were mean to them once when they were twelve.

Any individual displaying these characteristics should be teased mercilessly until they have a Cathartic breakthrough or run away bawling.:D

eyelikeart

Jul 19, 2002, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by dukestreet
aahhwww, come on! I want to wine some more - or actually, I want some more wine.....

sorry, had to :D

he he he....don't worry....I have plenty of bottles on reserve...just waiting for a special occasion... ;)

G4scott

Jul 19, 2002, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by eyelikeart

he he he....don't worry....I have plenty of bottles on reserve...just waiting for a special occasion... ;)

Would the intro of the G5 be special enough ;)

You know, if everybody stopped whining and calmly wrote Apple a letter concerning their displeasure (without biting their heads off) Apple may be more considerate in any decision about dropping the price... Whining gets you nowhere...

"I WANT an iPod!!!!!"

jelloshotsrule

Jul 19, 2002, 06:45 PM

to harthansen and tjwett specifically....

i can see both of your reasons. however, i really do think that the pros outweigh the current speed problems.

i work on a dual 400 or so with windows nt 4.0 at work. using premiere and after effects. now, don't get me wrong, that's not the most recent set up or anything, but as for the platform.... it's terrible. and considering nt is generally far more stable than the other windows platforms, that's saying something. at least half the days i've worked there has been an hour plus of problems to work out with the video card and with premiere and with .dll files and all that... there's always something.

as for x.2... if you don't see it as a good, professional updgrade for os x, then there's no need to get it... though i would disagree..

as for buying all new software for os x... yeah, that's generally true. but most companies have also upgraded the software in general, not just porting it to x. not all, but most. and with that, you get the upgrade price.... i've never bought pc software, but i'm sure you'll have to get AT LEAST the upgrade price if not a whole new set up for your pc software.... what i mean (i'm not being clear i know) is that even if you have after effects for os 9.... upgrading to os x (besides being better/more stable) will be the same or less as buying the pc version....

anyhoo, i do video and graphics stuff (i'm a student, but i have worked at a few places, some pc some mac) and while i don't do smoke, flame, etc, i tend to think that apple's new powermac will be good. with all their high end software company purchases, they must have something planned for hardware too. sure, it's not here right now... which sucks. but i do think it's coming...

as for x.2 myself, i think there should be an upgrade price. and i certainly think there should be a free email only service.. or at least a cheaper email only service... but those things alone will not force me to switch... because my pc experiences are horrible. and i'm sure i'm not the only one

to no one specifically:

the imacs and current power macs are not jokes. you're kidding yourself if you think so

Grokgod

Jul 19, 2002, 09:06 PM

I am sorry JELLO, I respect you, but must disagree with your statement about the new iMac!

It IS a fuhreakin JOKE! its not a machine for anything really other than internet surfing and as an glorified type writer.

I tried playing Warcraft 3 on it, NOT possible.

Redraws are painful and SLOW.

Video work HA! noway... unless your used to suffering! and enjoy it.

Now I do not have a DUAL 1 giger. Yet I have read others posting their complaints about them and the video problem they have had with a lcd!

Which was treated very poorly by APPLE
the same way in which they are now deleting posts form their forums that are negative on the OS upgrade and .mac!

The hardware is TOO OLD.

I think that OSX is or will be great but the hardware is NOT!
There needs to be a SHOWDOWN between APPLE and their loyal mistreated users!

I am just lucky that APPLE doesnt run this board or I too would be deleted!

Things are really changing in the APPLE company and if we dont stand up and be heard, its going to be a world with nowhere to go, computer wise!

jelloshotsrule

Jul 19, 2002, 09:39 PM

it's hard to read your comments are thoughtful and reasonable when every other WORD is a caps LOCK yell.

as for the imac and wc3 and video work.... i'll have to test both sometime soon on my parents' low end and get back to you.

as for a dp 1 ghz not performing, well that's just not true. i have a dp 800 and it's great. i have had some problems with software and whatnot, but it's never been slow or failed to meet my demands. so i can only assume that the 1 ghz is that much better.

sure, they need to get their act together with processors. and the no upgrade/free (cheap at least) email is dumb... but you are implying that there is a better option. no company/product is perfect. and at this point, apples are far better than pc/windows..

what exactly is it that's changing in apple? they have slower processors? well that's always been the case pretty much. hence the marketing of the mhz as a myth.... so what are you referring to?

and if you wouldn't mind, at least in your response to me, can you keep the caps lock to a minimum? it's just annoying

Mr. Anderson

Jul 19, 2002, 09:51 PM

I think you're taking it way to personally grokgod, you need to relax a little and try being patient. I'm doing a little video and 3D animation on a 450 G4 and a 667 TiPB - and I manage to get things done. I'll be getting a new machine next year, but I'm waiting for a huge upgrade, not just a speed bump - we're finally getting close, with a new bus and faster memory its going to make a huge difference.

It will be worth the wait, and since I'm going to pay for it myself, I don't really have a choice. But you don't see me exploding in the threads.

Ask yourself this, what good does it do going around ranting in the forums - it won't make any difference and you'll only end up annoying people. Take a more sensible approach, tone it down a bit.

D

tjwett

Jul 19, 2002, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by 8thDegreeSavage
I have decided to borrow a copy of 10.2....thats how im going to show Jobs how impressed i am.

word up man. i think i'll do the same. ya know, test it out(for a year or two) before i buy it ; )

jelloshotsrule

Jul 19, 2002, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by tjwett
word up man. i think i'll do the same. ya know, test it out(for a year or two) before i buy it ; )

just curious... thought you switched to pc?

Durandal7

Jul 19, 2002, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule

just curious... thought you switched to pc?

Guess he calmed down and realised how much money it would cost to buy new software so he could switch to Windoze.

bunton

Jul 22, 2002, 10:41 PM

Apple did what they needed to do. I do not like the fact that it costs more but that is not a lot. You pay about 50 bucks a month for cable internet so why not 100 for basiccaly a second hard drive and spamless e-mail and easy web pages that work with your computer easily. I think itools was a better name than .mac but we see in the future what happens.

tjwett

Jul 22, 2002, 11:46 PM

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule

just curious... thought you switched to pc?

only sold my TiBook. I recieved my PCs and aside from the fact that they run Windows, they are probably the nicest machines I've ever seen. After some discussion with some other folks I decided to try to setup a cross-platform rendering farm so that I can continue to work on the Mac and the PCs will do the number crunching. I'm in the process now and hoping it will go smoothly. These PCs are truly amazing. probably a little more than I need for something like this but i may turn one into a dedicated soft-synth since they are built for audio. anyway, i'm really impressed. http://www.carillondirect.com

Rower_CPU

Jul 23, 2002, 01:25 AM

Originally posted by tjwett
Must have hit the wrong button or something. Anyway, go ahead and ban me. Do me a favor. Before I wind up like the rest of you. Back in my parents basement, living by the gospel according to Steve. Ban me before I get to 4000 posts on a silly internet message board and actually take time out of my day to create an animated avatar. You are probably a bunch of overweight, undersexed, Star Wars fanatics or something. Please, I want out of this club of zeroes. Ban me! Then everybody go get some sense, and get a life. Atleast get out of the house. And don't wear your wizard cape from Saturday night's D&D tournament. Have fun you saps.

Nice job...any credibility or reasoned discussion you may have hoped, or pretended to hope for, is now gone.

So much for never personally attacking anyone on the forums; you just decided to take on all of us.

Get to know the forum before you go around stereotyping.:rolleyes:

LimeiBook86

Jul 23, 2002, 01:48 AM

Originally posted by copperpipe
that jaguar operating system looks terrible.

As Sonic the Hedgehog once said...

"You're kiddin right?"

LimeiBook86

Jul 23, 2002, 01:50 AM

Originally posted by kettle
Apple has the best solution, Microsoft has the worst.
DAM STARIGHT

-Homer J. Simpson

75 POSTS FOR ME! WHOOOOO!!!

Grokgod

Jul 23, 2002, 02:18 AM

Hey Jello and Duke....

Sorry about the cap locks, but I was told or have been writing a script and when there is a word that need a certain amount of attention you add the CAP locks.

It certainly wasnt my intention to IRRITATE. <ouch that isnt good, is it?>
I was merely testing out the method that I use in scripts on this forum.
Obviously it doesnt work very well,

Sorry. I will go back to relying on spacing techniques to get my point across.

Well Dukestreet~

You're right, I am taking this personally because it affects my life in a very personal manner. I have been a very patient man for a long time.
< I skipped the caps on "long" that time!:)>

Yet at this Mac World, I truly felt that Apple has gone beyond the normal amount of abuse and insulted my intelligence. Of course there are those that would say,
"WHat intelligence"

I too, am waiting for a huge upgrade and the fact that it has yet to arrive despite the arrival of DDram in Xserve. Has put me in a very difficult situation on a project that involves video work.

There are many others in my situation.

What seems to me, to be obvious manipulation on Apples part has finally ended my usual patience with my favorite company.

I didnt feel that I was ranting, I thought that it was infact constructive criticism.
The emotional propellent was merely the fuel.

I do feel that my speaking up can serve a few purposes.
> It seems that others have spoken up on the same subject.
Maybe in some small way my posts helped them stand up and be counted.
I think that often the Mac faithful can be too faithful and blind, which I think
has contributed to the current state of affairs
> Hopefully more people speaking up on this subject will draw the attention of
APPLE and get them to realize that they have gone too far and will
finally release current tech!
> Also , I was true to my personal beliefs. I am a person that has deep
convictions and I often find myself on the fighting end of what I believe in.

I never said I was jumping ship or told anyone to leave Apple or anything extreme like that. I was attempting to be moderate. :)

Its as you said, Dukestreet.
You are waiting for a huge upgrade and I think that everyone should wait for that upgrade and send Apple a message that we are not fools and will not pay these inflated prices for inferior tech, as many others have said.

And as you are saying by waiting, I think we both agree but are using different methods.

Obviously we are different people. I am sorry if it seemed like a rant, it was not my intention.

~Jelloshotsrule

howdy ;)
The iMac is not a computer for use other than general typing and surfing.
I sadly own one. Its the one computer that I have ever bought that I regret.

I will be selling it very soon.

I found it quite frustrating that a computer at this price point cannot play a game like WC3. Now this game is not a Pro game, it is an average consumer product.

Now if Apple is going to tell its new switch customers or anyone else that this machine can do all that they claim, then we need to tell Apple to either stop it, or fix the machines so that they do run games of this kind properly.

WE have to do this because if we dont Apple will lose far more than what they think they are gaining by this deception.

We all care about Apple and the reasons that i am voicing these complaints is not to whine as others have said, but to call Apple out and save them from themselves.

To create a call to arms, so that Apple can be steered by its loyal users away from what I perceive as outright manipulation.

This is the way that I think Apple has changed.

In the manner in which they speak with and deal with us.
The lies and the problems that arise from them will cause avok for Apple and us.

It is Apples job to fill the markets needs and we are the market and we set the needs. If we allow Apple to ride over us, then we become responsible for what will occur.
Just as I believe that the mac faithful are responsible for the current hardware state. I do not think it is a production problem or anything like that. I think that Apple is abusing the loyality of its users and will continue to do so until we stand up and be counted.

There may very well be no better option or there will be those that opt to go to wintel as many have, but whatever the situation.

We as the buyers of Apples products do not have to settle.
Merely because we hate windoze.
I refuse to allow myself to be manipulated merely because there is nowhere to go.

I have certain rights as one of the Mac Loyal and I intend to use them to the benefit of all. Or at least that is the intent of this idealist.

LimeiBook86

Jul 23, 2002, 02:25 AM

I like new hardware and short messages... :D

jefhatfield

Jul 23, 2002, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by tjwett

Nah, switching because I need speed and current technology in a machine that's worth it's price and I simply can't afford to wait any longer. Wish I could but I can't. Just customized 2 kick ass systems for under $1400 and change each. And it's not for internet browsing. It's for network renders of After Effects and Combustion. I'll probably keep my PowerMac for audio production since I'm a Logic user. Maybe I'll be back for the G5...

Logging Off,

tjwett

on many things, you won't notice the amd machine being faster

but you are right about apple's pricing setup...it is too high compared to the pc world and our market share has lost twenty five percent since 1999-2000 to those pc makers...especially dell who makes a mediocre product but has a powerful sales force

i sometimes wish apple could hire some of the dell sales people and be a little more aggresive about the new buyers

solvs

Jul 23, 2002, 01:31 PM

I think we can all agree we love the Mac OS. Why else would we be here? And we hate the way M$ does business.

But a lot of us loyalists, who once touted the superiority of the hardware, software, and the company in general, seem to be waivering. Apple isn't the only one running a business in an "economic slowdown". Most of us are at least budgeting, and need the most bang for our bucks.

Sorry to tell you, but Wintels are the competition. If Apple wants to win consumers, and keep us non-zealot supporters, they need to wake up. If Motorola is lagging, find other ways to make things look better. Faster FSB, memory, IDE, overall system improvements. The cases are neat and all, but what about what's inside? The software is Fantastic, give us the hardware to prove it. We all dislike Windows.

And M$. So why conduct business like they do? I support them buying up other companies to innovate (Apple, not M$), and giving us new software solutions, but at what costs. Should we just accept it, because it's the lesser of 2 evils? Should we just say, "well that's the fastest Mac there is, so I'll buy it". Or "it looks so stylish, who cares if it's still using last years technology". Why become complacent with the obsolesencs?

Should we have to over pay for things that others offer for free, or at least cheaper? People are mad because they feel extorted, and dammit, they have every right to be pissed. They paid extra because they thought they were getting more. Now they're getting the old "bait and switch". The extras of .Mac are worth $100/year, if they work. But what about the "free for life" e-mail. Or paying $1,000 for a new OS X.2 Server Liscense 2 months after buying a $4,000+ xServe? Or even FULL PRICE for an upgrade. They want us to buy hardware before an Expo, then punish us if we do.

See if anybody buys a new Mac after they announce 10.3, but before they deliver it. Next it will be XP type registration practices. Isn't this why we're trying to move away M$. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't get new customers by p*ssing people off, and you lose those that used to support you. How many of us used to rave to our friends, family, and co-workers about Apples? How many of us now think twice before recommending them? They want to switch people, give them a better reason to want to switch.

They want to move into the Pro realm, give us Pro hardware. Who cares if you have a 1.2 GHz CPU, if it's surrounded by ATA/133 (which really is better than ATA/66), 120 GB+ Hard Drives, PC2700 DDR, 166 FSB (x2), 2 CD Drives, USB 2, built-in Bluetooth, etc. It matters now. You can do it. How many of us use GB Ethernet, or used USB or FW when they first came out? You can't use modern day specs!?!

You want to charge us more, give us more. All you zealots can flame away. "Apple good, Wintel bad, must hide head in sand". You should see what the other side is saying, I'm a zealot to them. But I'm just trying to be a realist here. I want a new Mac, but nothing on the current roster suits my needs. I'm not paying $2,000 for style. I can't afford to. Not many can (and if you can, lucky you). Mr. Jobs, give me something fairly decent and I'll take a (slight) performance hit for the extra stability and ease of use.

It's my $$$, I'll take it where I think it would serve me best. And telling people to just go buy a PC doesn't help. Actually it just proves my point. Because that's exactly what people do. This isn't a private club, it's a business claiming to want new customers, and in doing so doesn't seem to be catering to it's current base. If anything, it's p*ssing off it's most important clientel by making a lot of really bad choices. We're not happy, and we, the customer, are what matter.

Voice your opinions people. And b*tch all you want, until someone listens. Because no, it's not "good enough".

We're mad as Hell, and we're not gonna take it anymore.

Grokgod

Jul 23, 2002, 06:11 PM

Actually I don't recommend Apple anymore to people.

I was a switching machine, I swear people listen to me, I fix computers and do graphics in a small community and people look to me for answers in the computer world.

Yea, I know what your thinking, that must be a sad community.:)

Now when someone asks me about Apple or what to buy.

I tell them point blank, do NOTHING.

Its not a good time to buy anything.

why do I say that, well because.

I cant have people coming back to me with serious complaints about what I told them to do.

And I know that they would, because I have serious problems with the platform at the moment and my faith in it has fallen severely.
I cant be responsible for steering people to spend thousands of dollars on something that will not work well for them. In my small town that is the kiss of death!

bunton

Jul 25, 2002, 09:52 AM

It is technology, Apple aint trying to screw you they are ust trying to help.

Here in America we want the best and fastest right away and Apple provides that. They have to release the next version sometime.

So Apple invents there next version and releases it as soon as they can, because that is the way we want it, how are they screwing you?

You know what you bought when you bought it. And it doesnt require the update or new version to still work fine.

What do you want Apple to be like Windblows and release a new version every 1 or 2 years and basiccaly everyone has to get it.

No Apple puts out what they got ASAP. Here is what I willl do, I have had my original OSX for a while and i do all the updates but I can skip Jaguar and use this until i feel i need a new OS or version of X and then switch, Apple just gives you options.

It just so happens that they give very good options and you want them all right away. Do not get mad at that!

***PeaCe out***