good price for a DP?

[goglamosh]

is $2299 a good price for this: Apple Power Mac Dual 1.0GHz G4/512MB RAM/80GB HD/SuperDrive (DVD-R/CDRW)/56K/NVIDIA GeForce4 MX/Refurbished? It has the full, standard Apple warranty.

[Hemingray]

Sounds fairly decent to me, although I WOULD wait until at least we see what Apple's next PowerMac offerings are...

[goglamosh]

yeah, i am definitely going to wait and see what happens. this is my first Mac purchase, and I want to make sure I get the latest and greatest. i'm trying to get away from the PC.

[mr.w]

looks like a great price to me... although take into consideration who you are buying it from, is it an admirable merchant (have you heard good things about it). just be careful about a lot of those online "specials" ... often times they're not as good as they seem.

[mcrain]

Whoa, I'm blushing, I completely thought you meant something else...

:D

[AmbitiousLemon]

dont buy refurbs unless you are really desperate. the price might seem good but they often still have major problems and also often break down again very easily. its a bit like buying a car that has been in an accident, its just not the same machine anymore.

[goglamosh]

thanks for the advice.

[Durandal7]

Any news on when Ambitiouslemon.com will be back up?

[j763]

Originally posted by asurace
Any news on when Ambitiouslemon.com will be back up? ]

Asurance, AmbitiousLemon, kishba & I are all working really hard on getting it back up as soon as possible. We've added a lot of neat features, created a new cool site design, updated our old conent and added loads of new content too. Realistically, we're looking at an early to mid september launch. Hopefully sooner!

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by mr.w
looks like a great price to me... although take into consideration who you are buying it from, is it an admirable merchant (have you heard good things about it). just be careful about a lot of those online "specials" ... often times they're not as good as they seem.

Who you purchase the computer from has a lot to do for determining if it is a good deal or not. A refurb from Apple would be better then a third party vendor. DO get AppleCare on it (if from Apple, make sure it is from the purchase date not the build date).

[mymemory]

If you get refurbish consider this:

NEVER get a primary refurbish device, I mean, you cane get the monitor, the zip, the powerbook, etc, but never your main system (in the case your Power Mac). Specially if you use it every day, just because if it need to get fixed it can take weeks. You can replace a zip drive and even the monitor, you can spend some time without your powerbook and work with your primary computer but if your primary computer is damage, you are busted.

[bousozoku]

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
dont buy refurbs unless you are really desperate. the price might seem good but they often still have major problems and also often break down again very easily. its a bit like buying a car that has been in an accident, its just not the same machine anymore.

I would always rather have a refurbished machine or floor model because it's been tested better. My G3/400 came out in Spring 1999 and hasn't had a problem at all and I bought it six months afterwards. My dual processor 800 was a floor model too and hopefully, it will give me three easy years, or more, of service.

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by bousozoku
I would always rather have a refurbished machine or floor model because it's been tested better.

Not even CLOSE to being true. ALL Mac systems are tested before leaving the factory. While you will always have a few that slip through QA, it more uncommon then common. As for refurbs being better, they just go through the normal Apple repair steps, which includes a burn-in process to make sure the fix is solid. With that being said, I DID have to send my rev. a TiBook back three times before it was finally fixed. I had an issue with the display. They ended up replacing the screen twice, the motherboard three times and the power inverter once.

As for floor models, you are trusting the store (if not an Apple retail location) being honest about the unit being refurbished properly (only Apple can really do that). I wouldn't purchase any refurbished unit unless it came with the full 1 year warranty that all new products from Apple come with. That way, you have that one year to get the Applecare protection, for the full three year total.

[job]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
They ended up replacing the screen twice, the motherboard three times and the power inverter once.

:eek::eek:

I hope you had that sucker covered under a warrenty. :D

[marcsiry]

I just bought a refurb DP from Smalldog (same specs as the one you were looking at) for $2400. Straight out of the box, it was giving me kernel panics all over the place.

I went through every conceivable diagnosis and fix- spent a day messing with it and even did a low level format overnight- before calling it in to Apple. They directed me to bring it in for repairs.

I took it to a local Apple Store and they fixed it in three days- they ended up replacing the MPU (one of the processors was faulty).

Didn't cost a cent, due to the Apple warranty. Just lots of time :-)

It's now working properly and it's fast. I have it today, and don't need to wait for the release/shipping delays/technical problems with the Rev A or modern day "Yikes" board of the next machine. If the next machine's midrange blows away this, I can resell it for a small loss and put it towards a new one.

In the meantime, this machine pays for itself roughly once a week, and the experience is far superior to my old 500 mhz box. Well worth the expense (and minor trouble) in my opinion!

BTW, Smalldog was awesome about the problem- they offered to help me out getting it fixed (not necessary on their part, as it was covered by Apple, but still cool). Oh yeah- and I'm eligible for the OS 10.2 Up-to-date program! That's another $100 off... :)

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by Chitman


:eek::eek:

I hope you had that sucker covered under a warrenty. :D

Of course Chitman... It's called AppleCare... :p Great stuff, I recommend that anyone that gets a new Mac gets the Applecare plan for it... One repair alone will pay for the plan (if not pay for it several times over). Think of it this way, replacing the motherboard on an out of warranty TiBook (just over 1 year old) will cost you about $800. The Applecare plan costs $349, do the math. :p :D

[jefhatfield]

i would wait and see what apple has in next few weeks

a friend of mine wants to sell me his g4 450/2 SCSI HD/800+ RAM for $450 US which is ok becuase it's so inexpensive and it works since i see it all the time and help with setup in their office and other stuff

but $2,300 US is quite a lot for a used machine

[bousozoku]

Originally posted by AlphaTech


Not even CLOSE to being true. ALL Mac systems are tested before leaving the factory. While you will always have a few that slip through QA, it more uncommon then common. As for refurbs being better, they just go through the normal Apple repair steps, which includes a burn-in process to make sure the fix is solid. With that being said, I DID have to send my rev. a TiBook back three times before it was finally fixed. I had an issue with the display. They ended up replacing the screen twice, the motherboard three times and the power inverter once.

As for floor models, you are trusting the store (if not an Apple retail location) being honest about the unit being refurbished properly (only Apple can really do that). I wouldn't purchase any refurbished unit unless it came with the full 1 year warranty that all new products from Apple come with. That way, you have that one year to get the Applecare protection, for the full three year total.

I'm more trusting of people using the things on display and that they have to continue to work. Seeing the machine week-after-week working gives me confidence.

My dad's iMac (Rage 128), for instance, we bought in the box. The modem has never worked reliably past 33.6 and the disk drive keeps losing its contents, but there's "nothing wrong" according to the tech. The tech. told me, after I explained that I had used a PowerMac at their house which connected at 40K, that it was a phone line problem. Then, even if he swapped it, it probably still wouldn't be any faster. Everything he said in argument might as well have been "we're not going to fix it because we're trying to save money".

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by bousozoku
I'm more trusting of people using the things on display and that they have to continue to work. Seeing the machine week-after-week working gives me confidence.

My dad's iMac (Rage 128), for instance, we bought in the box. The modem has never worked reliably past 33.6 and the disk drive keeps losing its contents, but there's "nothing wrong" according to the tech. The tech. told me, after I explained that I had used a PowerMac at their house which connected at 40K, that it was a phone line problem. Then, even if he swapped it, it probably still wouldn't be any faster. Everything he said in argument might as well have been "we're not going to fix it because we're trying to save money".

Q. How many stores (retail locations) use modems???

A. Virtually none. If the computers are on the internet, they do it via a LAN. You could have the exact same problem with a display model as you describe having with the boxed iMac.

Where was this tech that you spoke with (who did he work for)? Have you tried using the different modem protocols (v.90 or v.34)? How about any other work, or updates to the OS, or are you still running the original operating system that it shipped with? Which speed model is that iMac (listing the video card doesn't narrow it down much). Have you ever bothered to zap the pram or reset the open firmware??

When you connected the other Mac and got the 40k speed, was it using the exact same outlet, or did you use a different one?

Just because you got a faulty modem, and the tech you spoke with wasn't helpful is in NO way an indication of brand new computers from Apple. I have had people tell me how they have purchased floor/display units only to have nothing BUT trouble with them.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by AlphaTech


Q. How many stores (retail locations) use modems???

A. Virtually none. If the computers are on the internet, they do it via a LAN. You could have the exact same problem with a display model as you describe having with the boxed iMac.

Where was this tech that you spoke with (who did he work for)? Have you tried using the different modem protocols (v.90 or v.34)? How about any other work, or updates to the OS, or are you still running the original operating system that it shipped with? Which speed model is that iMac (listing the video card doesn't narrow it down much). Have you ever bothered to zap the pram or reset the open firmware??

When you connected the other Mac and got the 40k speed, was it using the exact same outlet, or did you use a different one?

Just because you got a faulty modem, and the tech you spoke with wasn't helpful is in NO way an indication of brand new computers from Apple. I have had people tell me how they have purchased floor/display units only to have nothing BUT trouble with them.

hey, alpha, did you know that the average rider of a harley is now 46 with average income of 78k?...that could spell disaster for HD unless the company can get new blood into riding instead of old baby boomers with desk jobs...are young people not riding, or are they avoiding harleys which the stats seem to show...analysts are scared and see some dark times ahead for HD

but as far as floor models go, i thought apple machines were tougher than that

...i can see how floor model laptops get abused with keys missing and laptop restraints digging into the machine's finish...but are there really problems with mac desktops that are display models?

i figure with a mac desktop floor model, just retore the system when you get home and all should be fine...unless the people who work for the store, often times pc people, abuse the mac during setup and display

i worked in an IT dept when i first became a tech and the pc guys used to kick around the boxes that had g4s in them...it was awful...they were not handled with a lot of care

[AlphaTech]

Yo, jefhornyfield... When I was talking with the salesman at the dealership I got my Harley from, he let me know that there are a lot of people under 35 purchasing brand new Harley's. People making good money and are able to afford the best (aka a Harley :D).

I think that the age range is inflated due to the fact that once you start riding a Harley, you don't want to stop. There are lots of people that are over 55 that are riding, but there is plenty of fresh blood being injected as well.

I hope to get to next month's HOG meeting (worked my side job last night, so I missed this month's) and see what the age range is there.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
Yo, jefhornyfield... When I was talking with the salesman at the dealership I got my Harley from, he let me know that there are a lot of people under 35 purchasing brand new Harley's. People making good money and are able to afford the best (aka a Harley :D).

I think that the age range is inflated due to the fact that once you start riding a Harley, you don't want to stop. There are lots of people that are over 55 that are riding, but there is plenty of fresh blood being injected as well.

I hope to get to next month's HOG meeting (worked my side job last night, so I missed this month's) and see what the age range is there.

unless the company gets more young blood, those acutal numbers have gone down for a spell

and unless they can put out some more affordable bikes

the company will be in financial trouble

the product is fine, no doubt...just like lamgroghini was before they were bought out

making a good product is hard to do, but making a profit is even harder...ask tucker, studebaker, stromberg, maidenform, and many other companies who had the quality but not the net profit

it would be a dark day for the motorcycle world if harley got themselves into money troubles

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by jefhatfield


unless the company gets more young blood, those acutal numbers have gone down for a spell

and unless they can put out some more affordable bikes

the company will be in financial trouble

the product is fine, no doubt...just like lamgroghini was before they were bought out

making a good product is hard to do, but making a profit is even harder...ask tucker, studebaker, stromberg, maidenform, and many other companies who had the quality but not the net profit

it would be a dark day for the motorcycle world if harley got themselves into money troubles

to put this all into a computer perspective

quality alone cannot save a product if the pool of customers is small or shrinking (as is the case with harley - fortune magazine)

look at the lisa computer, great machine but low sales

look at the cube...it was nice but the killer was the high price tag and by the time they lowered the price, it was too late for that product line

let's say the tibook was $3799 usd to start and went all the way up to $5400 dollars (for top of line) when it was introduced...it would have killed it...only rich former yuppies could afford it

should harley eventually become only a bike primarily for old rich executives?

[mymemory]

Originally posted by bousozoku


I'm more trusting of people using the things on display and that they have to continue to work. Seeing the machine week-after-week working gives me confidence.

My dad's iMac (Rage 128), for instance, we bought in the box. The modem has never worked reliably past 33.6 and the disk drive keeps losing its contents, but there's "nothing wrong" according to the tech. The tech. told me, after I explained that I had used a PowerMac at their house which connected at 40K, that it was a phone line problem. Then, even if he swapped it, it probably still wouldn't be any faster. Everything he said in argument might as well have been "we're not going to fix it because we're trying to save money".

I have to agree with AlphaSex on this.

Once I bought a sampler from 1-800-Sam Ash and they send me the floor model, the floppy drive didn't work (and I paid for a brand new model), any way I got a new one a month later.

The thing is that the floor model are 90% riskier than a brand new out of the box machine. The same with refurbish equipment, you are running under a risk there.

[jefhatfield]

i wasn't really trying to disagree with alpha tech since i know he's an apple technician...i just wanted to see his take on why an apple desktop floor display would be so bad

i have bought or been given many used desktop machines in the past and i have never had a problem with any of them...except for some of them being too old for practical use with today's software

i can see people messing with the computer's software tossing out files and such, but apple's hardware is sturdy and handles itself well against school children

..and don't tell me that ALL customers are as tough on demo machines as school children are

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
unless the company gets more young blood, those acutal numbers have gone down for a spell
They are selling plenty of bikes to people of all ages, including the under 30 croud.

and unless they can put out some more affordable bikes

the company will be in financial trouble
Check out the Sportster line... they are less money then the larger Harley's...

the product is fine, no doubt...just like lamgroghini was before they were bought out

Damn straight the product is great... :p :D

making a good product is hard to do, but making a profit is even harder...ask tucker, studebaker, stromberg, maidenform, and many other companies who had the quality but not the net profit

it would be a dark day for the motorcycle world if harley got themselves into money troubles

Alright, check out the following articles from CBS Marketwatch (and the Associated press)... One (http://custom.marketwatch.com/custom/earthlink-net/mw-news.asp?GUID={7044AEAE-C2BC-4901-B8E1-5EBDCCDCD889}&destination=&symb=HDI), two ($1 billion in sales :p) (http://custom.marketwatch.com/custom/earthlink-net/mw-news.asp?GUID={15591400-5B2E-436A-838F-2137A922486F}&destination=&symb=HDI), and three (http://custom.marketwatch.com/custom/earthlink-net/mw-news.asp?GUID={47D4056F-9FE6-4C29-873D-89D1F75E20ED}&destination=&symb=HDI).

Also take a look at this chart showing the splits (since HD has been on the stock market (can be found here (http://custom.marketwatch.com/custom/earthlink-net/interactive-chart.asp?osymb=HDI&symb=HDI&sid=2325&time=20&uf=1024&comp=) as well).

Harley-Davidson is not going away... Unless the country gets invaded and they are destroyed (we are more likely to be invaded and conquered :p).

[bousozoku]

Originally posted by AlphaTech


Q. How many stores (retail locations) use modems???

A. Virtually none. If the computers are on the internet, they do it via a LAN. You could have the exact same problem with a display model as you describe having with the boxed iMac.

Where was this tech that you spoke with (who did he work for)? Have you tried using the different modem protocols (v.90 or v.34)? How about any other work, or updates to the OS, or are you still running the original operating system that it shipped with? Which speed model is that iMac (listing the video card doesn't narrow it down much). Have you ever bothered to zap the pram or reset the open firmware??

When you connected the other Mac and got the 40k speed, was it using the exact same outlet, or did you use a different one?

Just because you got a faulty modem, and the tech you spoke with wasn't helpful is in NO way an indication of brand new computers from Apple. I have had people tell me how they have purchased floor/display units only to have nothing BUT trouble with them.

I'm not sure what the store/modem question has to do with anything.

The iMac in question is a 350 MHz machine. I've reset the machine's PRAM (multiple times) and open firmware (once). The O.S. has been upgraded from 8.5.1 to 9.2.2 and Mac OS X 10.1.3 (although this rarely runs). I seem to remember a lot of problems with the modem updater 2.0 (?) being incompatible with some of the modem hardware.

Is it possible that the disk drive has a thinner magnetic coating and is occasionally interacting with a much strong magnetic field? With the lightning here, I could imagine that a lightning strike could cause a house to be magnetically charged and the strength would be enough to overcome a weak magnetic field.

I connected the PowerMac in the same room to the same phone outlet.

You're right. The tech. has nothing to do with the condition of new computers coming from Apple. I would be more suspicious of the machines on which he worked. He seemed more of a card swapper than a technician. This seems to be more typical of people around Orlando than technicians in general. People in Philadelphia were very thorough. I haven't met the tech. but CompUSA says that he's Apple-certified but he only visits the store once a week.

I think more of my dislike against boxed computers lately comes from seeing the huge stacks of refurbished iMacs in the CompUSA stores around Orlando.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by AlphaTech

They are selling plenty of bikes to people of all ages, including the under 30 croud.




Harley-Davidson is not going away... Unless the country gets invaded and they are destroyed (we are more likely to be invaded and conquered :p).

i am not talking this year or next, but check out the disturbing trend on www.fortune.com

when one new person gets into a harley, how does that help when one ex-harley rider goes to the rest home and the other dies of old age?

why are young people buying harleys at a decreasing rate according to fortune?

and what can be done to ensure a NEW generation of harley owners?

i am ok with how harley will finish out this year, but what about the long term future?

as an analogy, we have a strong military and our gear will last us well into 2025 according to defense analysts...F-16, B-52s, F-18s, seawolf class submarines, etc...but what if we stopped research and spending on defense? nothing major would be seen for awhile, but eventually, the trend would catch up to us and we would be in trouble

harley, according to fortune (a reputable source), is facing an aging clientele and unless we all live to 150 and stay healthy like a youngun, harley is in trouble in the long term unless something changes

the company was saved mostly in part to aging yuppies in the late 80s til now, but the next generation of high salary earners did not follow suit...gen x and gen y2k have pretty much ignored the harley compared to the baby boomer generation (my generation)

we are getting older and many of us, born since world war II, have died and each year a higher percentage of us kick the bucket

average age for us citizen at death is nearing 73 or 74 last time i read with males making it just a few months past 70...in another ten or fifteen years, where will harley be if the average age of the rider, up from 38 and now 47, goes up to 55 or so?

i want harleys on the road for tomorrow, too and no company, apple or HD included, can be smug about today and say the tomorrow is guaranteed just because we had a good year, or in HD's case, a growing, but not so much now, eleven years?

ps - harley is great, they just need to let the young people know that...sure, you know...but i am talking about the potential riders

kind of sounds like how we apple/mac users want to up our share in the market and have a FUTURE