Tell me Why...

[iSuck]

Next year, our school requires each student to get a laptop. Now, I can either buy 4 PC computers which the school offer, any PC Laptop i want outside of the schools range, or and iBook....Now...This is a big choice as my parents are spending alot of money.

Why should I change to a Mac?

Secondly, My school also has computer laps now and is full of eMacs with OS X 10. something on it. Lol. Anyway, I really like the design and the simplicity of the Macs. I like the white exterior, the individual windows. The few problems that I find are listed as the following

1. When I open a program like Appleworks or Word for Mac, i dont like how the seperate toolbars arnt attatched to the actual page as in the windows version of Word is all bunched together neatly. I don't find it to be neat.

2. Programs. If i wanted to download Kazaa Lite, which i currently have on my PC, i would need to download a Mac Version, and on the net, when I download files, I rarely see

DOWNLOAD FOR MAC USERS....

So fix these problems and convince me all you mac users, I wanna buy the wonderful products that you offer, but sometimes i wonder...

Thanks, I appreciate this...

[robbieduncan]

It's good that you are at least being open minded. Even if you end up buying a PC (and given that your Uni is selling them they may well be subsidised so a good deal) you can feel satisfied that you looked at all the options. So to take your particular problems:

1) There's nothing you can do about this. The seperate toolbars are more "Mac". You'd probably get used to it!

2) Unfortunatly there is no version of Kaza for the Mac platform. I'm sure some other members could point you in the direction of alternatives (BitTorrent say).

In general this can be a problem. I bought my first Mac in 2000 and have found that whilst there might be less software, what there is is better. Do you really need 200 P2P clients? Would 1 or 2 really good ones not be better?

On the Longhorn front: how long is your course? Microsoft themselves admit that Longhorn will not be released until 2007. It might get delayed further. They have already cut down on the specs a bit to try and make this deadline (for example they were originally going to provide spotlight style search on not only local disks, but network attached volumes and the open internet, this has been reduced to local disc only).

[Finiksa]

Another thought - Windows Longhorn is being released soon...
Sure, if you consider 2007/2008 soon then get the Wintel notebook.

[angelneo]

1. Its a matter of preferences, you will get used to it.

2. There are alternatives, you just have to invest some time looking for it.

So fix these problems and convince me all you mac users

I'm not trying to sound offensive but you sounds as if the mac community need bend over for your request.

[iSuck]

Ok, yeah you make good points there...

Ok for the first problem, i will probably get used to it, your right

Secondly, I just discovered BitTorrent , and suprnova.com great site, but the problem there is, you can only download albums and not individual songs.


Hmm...yeah, I still dunno, for me, it's a pretty big step...I mean To be honest, and please dont hate me here,

I used to be one of those people who totaly hated apple with a PASSION!!!
But yeah, ever since I bought ma iPod and started usin the eMacs at school, i'm still sorta weary on this...

Another problem that has come to mind is the fact that I have versions of programs that are nessecary to me, eg Macromedia Flash MX 2004 and Adobe Photoshop, but will these versions work if i transferred them via cd to a mac?

[Koree]

It is a p2p downloader thingy and it also searches kazaa users, and about your problem with the toolbars being in seperate windows, eh, personally like it better, i mean, they don't move around unless you tell them to, so once you've found everything, you won't need to find em again. And don't smirk at us, we get that enough from the unenlightened and I acutally smile a little cuz I know my machine is better in so many ways, cept gaming. I am quite a big gamer but all the truly great games that are being released recently all have mac versions, and i put my piece of mind that my file isn't going to be eaten by a virus or spontaneously vanish into the void of the C drive in front of playing counter strike. (good game) At school, when using the PCs, (we have really really good IBMs shame they are running Windoze) I've lost work i was working a good 2 hours on (it crashed, don't know how it was just Word! It didn't even back up!). Since then i have been carrying my PowerBook 530 Color (its 10 years old Dead battery) and i have never lost a file on it, it hasn't even ever crashed before. And been typing my stuff on that. And i am replacing that powerbook with a 15" Al powerbook soon. (Biggest, Upgrade, EVER!!!)

[robbieduncan]

Another problem that has come to mind is the fact that I have versions of programs that are nessecary to me, eg Macromedia Flash MX 2004 and Adobe Photoshop, but will these versions work if i transferred them via cd to a mac?

Unless the CDs have Mac versions on them that's not going to work! I think both Adobe and Macromedia have some sort of program where you can trade in your Windows CDs for Mac ones though...

[iSuck]

Well, I just discovered and interesting fact while reading my APC Magazine. I found out that the creators of MAC have just gotten rolled. They claim that their engine cannot work on a PC as it is inferior, YET, some expert programmers, with alot of time on their hands, have created an emulator which allows a Mac interface to be used on a PC.

Name of the emulator creators is called Pear PC

check this **** out

http://pearpc.sourceforge.net/screenshots/pearpc_xp.jpg

so now im wondering if i should get a Pc and use that program...hmmm..it still doesnt fix my fetish for the white exterior...SIGH!

[robbieduncan]

Well, I just discovered and interesting fact while reading my APC Magazine. I found out that the creators of MAC have just gotten rolled. They claim that their engine cannot work on a PC as it is inferior, YET, some expert programmers, with alot of time on their hands, have created an emulator which allows a Mac interface to be used on a PC.

Name of the emulator creators is called Pear PC

check this **** out

http://pearpc.sourceforge.net/screenshots/pearpc_xp.jpg

so now im wondering if i should get a Pc and use that program...hmmm..it still doesnt fix my fetish for the white exterior...SIGH!

Apple have never claimed that Mac OSX would not run on an x86 architecture (what you call a PC). They claim that it is better on PPC. There has already been a lot of discussion of PearPC on these boards. It is an emulator. It is very, very slow. You will probably no enjoy running OSX on it, even on the fastest x86 PC in the world!

[toughboy]

Well.. Last year July I bought a 12" PowerbookG4 RevA and I never regret it... Since then I formated about 1-2 times and reinstalled Windows about 3-4 times on my Desktop PC..

Not that I hate PCs, but buying a PC is not feasible anymore to me.. As someone who'll spend over a 1000bucks you should get something which'll make no problem and a PC brick (notebook) can leave you on the road at anytime.. Believe me my lad, I'm not a Apple worker or something, I'm just a person who tries to help, a Mac in general will be the best machine ever that you'll own..

by the way, an eMac never shows the real quality of Apple, you should use a PowerMacG5 or a iMac at least.. and iPod.. it changed my whole life, I hope everyone enjoys it as much as I do..

go iBookG4.. ;)

[iSuck]

Yeah, at my school we also have G4 iBooks and I enjoyed using them but another thing i hate about macs is the one button on the mouse. Where is the scroll thingy and i prefer 2 buttons as it is quicker.

Also, I heard that macs heat up like a fire oven at a pizza shop.

Yeah, Kudos to the iPod although the 4th Generation one whcih was just release is horrible. I used one recently and they the new scroll will is very hard to use, as i want to scroll through a menu and I end up changing my song...anyway i dont wanna talk about iPods, i wanna talk about Mac PCS.

So yeah, are there any pc users out there who have recently changed to the mac format.

[angelneo]

Yeah, at my school we also have G4 iBooks and I enjoyed using them but another thing i hate about macs is the one button on the mouse. Where is the scroll thingy and i prefer 2 buttons as it is quicker.


You can just get your normal USB mouse and it will work just as it worked on windows.

[Finiksa]

Where is the scroll thingy and i prefer 2 buttons as it is quicker.
I was never a fan of the scroll wheel even when I was a Windows person.

I make do with the page up/down buttons on a desktop or or function + up/down arrow on a portable.

The thing you have to realise is that on a Mac you can do most things using keyboard shortcuts leaving the mouse for "point and click" stuff.

It's a very efficient way to work and quicker than mousing all over the place.

[wrldwzrd89]

Yeah, at my school we also have G4 iBooks and I enjoyed using them but another thing i hate about macs is the one button on the mouse. Where is the scroll thingy and i prefer 2 buttons as it is quicker.

Also, I heard that macs heat up like a fire oven at a pizza shop.

Yeah, Kudos to the iPod although the 4th Generation one whcih was just release is horrible. I used one recently and they the new scroll will is very hard to use, as i want to scroll through a menu and I end up changing my song...anyway i dont wanna talk about iPods, i wanna talk about Mac PCS.

So yeah, are there any pc users out there who have recently changed to the mac format.
1. Regading the mouse, there is good news: you can plug in a two-button USB mouse to your Mac and it will just work - no driver installation is needed. (I'm not sure if the scroll wheel is supported, though - I've never used a two-button mouse with my Mac, since I don't use contextual menus often - Mac OS X offers other ways to get things done besides the contextual menu.) How's that for convienience?
2. The reason why PowerBooks get as hot as they do when you're using them is because Apple much prefers using passive cooling methods (like heatsinks) whenever possible as opposed to active methods (such as fans).
3. I own a 3rd gen iPod and have not tried an iPod mini or the 4th gen iPod, so I can't comment on the click wheel. My suspicion is that you're not using the click wheel correctly - maybe you're putting too much pressure on it when trying to scroll?
4. I'm not a switcher per se, but I am an "adder" - one that uses both platforms (Mac and Windows). I own a G4 iMac and a P4 PowerSpec.

[iSuck]

\
3. I own a 3rd gen iPod and have not tried an iPod mini or the 4th gen iPod, so I can't comment on the click wheel. My suspicion is that you're not using the click wheel correctly - maybe you're putting too much pressure on it when trying to scroll?


Nah, I also own a 15 gb 3rd Gen and I use the wheel like normal...not much effort is needed, it's simple, and I don't apply alot of pressure, it was brand new, maybe it just needed some wearing down.


Anyway, Im still now convinced

[varmit]

1. When I open a program like Appleworks or Word for Mac, i dont like how the seperate toolbars arnt attatched to the actual page as in the windows version of Word is all bunched together neatly. I don't find it to be neat.



If it bothers you that much, then just get a PC. Even though you can hide that tool bar and get it back in seconds.


2. Programs. If i wanted to download Kazaa Lite, which i currently have on my PC, i would need to download a Mac Version, and on the net, when I download files, I rarely see


Um, POSIONED. http://gottsilla.net/poisoned.php Gets you onto more than just Kazaa's network. There are a bunch more that can get you on to Kazaa and the other sharing networks, Posioned being the best. BUT, this will be against the rules for having a laptop and bringing it to school. They find out you have it, you could get in trouble because they are going to think you are trying to use it on the schools network. Why not just stick with iTunes and buy some songs.

for all your program needs: http://www.versiontracker.com Search, Find, Use.

[iSuck]

BUY SONGS?!!?

hahahahahahhahaahhaahahahhahahaha!!!!

LMAO!!!!!!!

ME! BUY SONGS!

PFTT....I JUST GET ALBUMS OFF MA MATES AND BURN THEM TO MA COMP.
Or kazaa is another alternitive

[Finiksa]

PFTT....I JUST GET ALBUMS OFF MA MATES AND BURN THEM TO MA COMP.
Or kazaa is another alternitive
Though most people have done this at one point or another, it's still stealing. Which bragging about isn't really cool to anyone but yourself.

Not to mention discussions advocating piracy are a breach of the TOS here, so I'd keep it clean and stick to discussion about the merits of getting a Mac.

[iSuck]

Though most people have done this at one point or another, it's still stealing. Which bragging about isn't really cool to anyone but yourself.

Not to mention discussions advocating piracy are a breach of the TOS here, so I'd keep it clean and stick to discussion about the merits of getting a Mac.


Sorry. I wasnt aware. Stealing, Alcahol and Drugs are wrong. Stay in school kids. Im goin to bed, ill be back tomoz.

Yawn...off to dream about PC's......

lol, nah, im gonna go play guitar and stuff...i live in australia if ya wondeirng...

[garybUK]

Yeah, at my school we also have G4 iBooks and I enjoyed using them but another thing i hate about macs is the one button on the mouse. Where is the scroll thingy and i prefer 2 buttons as it is quicker.

Also, I heard that macs heat up like a fire oven at a pizza shop.

Yeah, Kudos to the iPod although the 4th Generation one whcih was just release is horrible. I used one recently and they the new scroll will is very hard to use, as i want to scroll through a menu and I end up changing my song...anyway i dont wanna talk about iPods, i wanna talk about Mac PCS.

So yeah, are there any pc users out there who have recently changed to the mac format.

Ok so you have two options really Windows or Mac, I recently changed to mac from PC and i have to say i have been very comfortable doing so. The only thing i really miss on my PC is having VB and VB.NET

Stability wise... if you get a good pc with good hardware and is looked after then no it wont crash as much as others, you can really compare because there are soo many permiatations of pc's out there you cant compare to people like Sun or Apple who make propriatory hardware/software.

Merits of mac's well they look soooooo much nicer than ^most^ pc laptops. Plus they are portable unlike most non-centrino laptops. The battery life is good and the screens are awesome on the apple laptops.

Pro's of Mac laptops: Slot Load DVD Drive (no more breaking the tray), Battery Life good, OS is really nice.. it takes time to get used to but its worth it, screen quality is up there with the best, built in bluetooth & airport

Pro's of PC Laptops: you can share programs / files with your freinds, run all your desktop software on the go, two button+ mouse, more options available by shopping around

If you are still planning on keeping your desktop, download from there and zap it over using network. Apple includes samba so you can network to windows pc's really easily.

P2P - well as mentioned Poisoned is a Kazzaa client it also connects to the Gnutella network (limewire) and there are many more p2p programs. These integrate really well into iTunes so you know where all your files are..

Adobe Photoshop + Flash ... well ... if your clever you can pick these up or download them.... but im sure that you will take up student discounts and buy them ;)

Oh one last thing.. if you get a laptop with Bluetooth built in, buy a Bluetooth Microsoft Intellimouse Optical, stick it inthe bag and when you want to use it, pull it out, no connections it just works! You get the benefit of wireless, long battery life + the scroll wheel! and their driver speeds up the mouse soo much more so its just like pc speeds! ( i have always found apple pointer to be slower than windows ).

[Gimzotoy]

Oh one last thing.. if you get a laptop with Bluetooth built in, buy a Bluetooth Microsoft Intellimouse Optical, stick it inthe bag and when you want to use it, pull it out, no connections it just works! You get the benefit of wireless, long battery life + the scroll wheel! and their driver speeds up the mouse soo much more so its just like pc speeds! ( i have always found apple pointer to be slower than windows ).

If you're referring to a Microsoft driver for its Bluetooth mice, this is just untrue. Microsoft currently offers no support or drivers for their Bluetooth devices on Apples. The slow pointer movement of my Bluetooth Intellimouse has been the bane of my existence since I bought it 6 months ago. And the battery life is only so-so... I get about two weeks, where my RF Intellimouse went 3 months and gets used more. Anyway, just thought I'd point that out.

[robbieduncan]

If you're referring to a Microsoft driver for its Bluetooth mice, this is just untrue. Microsoft currently offers no support or drivers for their Bluetooth devices on Apples. The slow pointer movement of my Bluetooth Intellimouse has been the bane of my existence since I bought it 6 months ago. And the battery life is only so-so... I get about two weeks, where my RF Intellimouse went 3 months and gets used more. Anyway, just thought I'd point that out.

I think that the standard (non-Bluetooth) intelimouse drivers work for speeding up the mouse, even if it's a non-MS mouse so it should work for the Bluetooth ones as well.

[ChrisFromCanada]

BUY SONGS?!!?

hahahahahahhahaahhaahahahhahahaha!!!!

LMAO!!!!!!!

ME! BUY SONGS!

PFTT....I JUST GET ALBUMS OFF MA MATES AND BURN THEM TO MA COMP.
Or kazaa is another alternitive

LISTEN DUDE Kazaa sucks! there are many better p2p apps for Mac see http://www.mac-p2p.com/ or the web site in my signature. Kazaa on a PC gives you viruses, spyware, and lots of other crap. Poisoned does not as long as you don't type in your password when installing a 16Kb file called microsoft Word installer.

[plasticparadox]

Kazaa on a PC gives you viruses, spyware, and lots of other crap.

Macs?

Poisoned does not as long as you don't type in your password when installing a 16Kb file called microsoft Word installer.

Karma. And common sense. Anyone who thinks that Microsoft would
a)Make a web-installer for MS Word
OR
b) make it 16K or some silly miniscule size like that
deserves to get burned.

By the way, I couldn't help but notice this...

[iSuck]

LMAO!

I Know, TELL ME WHY....iSuck...haha, I didnt intend to that, but it's funny regardless.

Anyway guys, I looked at the prices for 12 inch ibooks in australia, startin from 1,324 dollars, reasonable....but then I looked closer and it said it only has 1.4 GHZ!!

Wot is up with that?!!?

The desktop I am runnin on now is 2.4, and ma dad's laptop which is a pentium 4 has 3.2gig.....so why shud i spend that much cash on something that only runs on a 1.4ghz

Do the ibooks come with OS X?


Ok, you guys got me here

I am cool with the music, cause I can just get a new program like poisened or use Bit Torrent but if there are songs I really need, I will just download them on ma other comp and transfer them to ma ibook.

As for the mouse...Im happy that I can still use my two button scroll mouse.

As for the dragable toolbars in word and other programs...im pretty happy:D

The only thing now is the cash:( and the speed

[robbieduncan]

Clock speed is not a god measure of processor speed (rather like how horsepower is not the best measure of car speed, as you need to take weight and wind resistance into account). If you look at Centrino based laptops then they run in the same sort of clock speed ballpark, yet are as fast as laptops with 2-3Ghz PM processors. It's all about instructions per clock, which is tied into things like pipeline depth. Read some of the CPU articles on Ars Technica (http://arstechnica.com/cpu/index.html) to learn more.

[hansen]

Clock speed is not a god measure of processor speed (rather like how horsepower is not the best measure of car speed, as you need to take weight and wind resistance into account). If you look at Centrino based laptops then they run in the same sort of clock speed ballpark, yet are as fast as laptops with 2-3Ghz PM processors. It's all about instructions per clock, which is tied into things like pipeline depth. Read some of the CPU articles on Ars Technica (http://arstechnica.com/cpu/index.html) to learn more.

and the applications and the OS and the disks, the ram....

[yellow]

Anyway guys, I looked at the prices for 12 inch ibooks in australia, startin from 1,324 dollars, reasonable....but then I looked closer and it said it only has 1.4 GHZ!!

Wot is up with that?!!?

The G4 chip is not a P4 chip. The cycle speed is not 1 to 1 equivalent. It's more like multiply the G4 speed by 1.8 and you'll be "close" to the P4 speed. So the 1.4 GHz speed of the G4 is (kinda) equivalent to a 2.5GHz P4. But even that is misleading, because OSX is NOT Windows. They do things totally differently and each one has it's own strengths and weaknesses. You'll just have to take the word of a buncha Mac heads that a 1.4GHz G4 in a 12" laptop is pretty darned sweet. That's faster then a significant portion of the G4 Desktop machines out there.

All Macs come with OSX.

[iSuck]

Ok...someone make this simple Cuz im really dumb..

1.3 on an Apple equals = WHAT ON A PC?

[yellow]

Ok...someone make this simple Cuz im really dumb..

1.3 on an Apple equals = WHAT ON A PC?

Then a calculator is your friend..

1.3 x 1.8 = 2.34

[plasticparadox]

The other thing with the speed issue is that because Apple makes both the hardware and the OS, they are both fine-tuned for performance. Take my word for it, I'm running a 900 Mhz G4 iBook. It blazes. I run Unreal Tournament 2004 without any lag. Granted, I could run it at a higher resolution on a G5 PowerMac, but for my daily tasks and even stretching the processor a bit, this iBook is great. Why don't you go into a shop that sells Macs and try one out.. that's the best way, in my opinion.

[TreeHugger]

So yeah, are there any pc users out there who have recently changed to the mac format.

I just switched to a 17 inch Powerbook 2-3 weeks ago and have not looked back since and I am, or used to be a very avid PC user. My PC is now being used by my parents, and I wish they had OS X on it, because it is soo much easier and more intuitive. Also its a lot stabler and also safer because of the lack of viruses for mac. As an alternative to kazaa lite try limewire.
As for photoshop, my high school had an educational version of Photoshop 7 which I can use. I will probably upgrade to CS when I get too College. Perhaps I can get it for free there too. I am getting Microsoft Office 2004 for free (well "free" - tuition is a crazy), so I havent bought it yet myself.

As for games, I don't miss playing counter strike nearly as much as I thought i would. I find that on the mac I have also been much more productive. Photoshop handles large files (300-400 mb) better on my PB than on my 2ghz P4 Dell with the same amount of RAM.

I have no regrets about switching.

[iSuck]

Yeah, I am takin this into consideration and I am now pretty positive that a Mac is the way to go. Treehugger, what made you want to get a Mac?

[wrldwzrd89]

The other thing with the speed issue is that because Apple makes both the hardware and the OS, they are both fine-tuned for performance. Take my word for it, I'm running a 900 Mhz G4 iBook. It blazes. I run Unreal Tournament 2004 without any lag. Granted, I could run it at a higher resolution on a G5 PowerMac, but for my daily tasks and even stretching the processor a bit, this iBook is great. Why don't you go into a shop that sells Macs and try one out.. that's the best way, in my opinion.
This 1.25 GHz G4 iMac I have seems fast and responsive to me. In terms of raw speed, it's not the fastest out there (my PC encodes iTunes songs 4 times as fast as my Mac on a good day), but it gets the job done. Also, it's been extremely stable. Ever since I got a PMU issue fixed after I bought the iMac, I've had 0 kernel panics and 2 mouse cursor freezes on the login screen (which required a hard restart to get the Mac into a usable state again, and only occurred after deleting preference files and attempting to log out and back in for the changes to take effect - in other words, don't worry about it). If I were you, I'd make sure you have at least as much memory in any Mac you buy as was in the last PC you used - and that should be no less than 256 MB.

[7on]

What was the problem with word? My word is fine.

Yeah, I agree with lots of RAM. Mainly because OSX will tend to use the hdd instead of RAM when the RAM fills up. And since the standard laptop speed of hdd is 4200RPM that'll get hella slow. I always tell people to Max out their RAM. Whether through an Apple BTO or buying from Crucial, either way is fine. There has been less headaches since I switched to the Mac. I switched a little more than a year ago (March 03) and I'm a bit of a neat freak. I was at the point to where I'd reinstall Windows every weekend because I couldn't get rid of some programs through uninstalling. Mainly this was because in Windows programs preferences were stored in a registry and with every install you made the registry bigger. Therefore it takes longer to load. Mac preferences are stored in a folder as individual text files w/ the ext. .plist. And since not all of them load when I boot up, I feel a less of a need to remove them. Which is why, I believe, Windows slows down with regular use. Macs, I've found, do not get slower with use. I had to reinstall OSX recently (well, I didn't have to - turned out to be a problem with Apple's servers instead of a problem with Sherlock) and the new OSX installation wasn't any faster than my 6month old install of OSX.

The only big problems I've experienced with OSX is when left on for more than 20 days Finder gets odd, as key commands quit working it in. Though a log off and log in fixes it. Like I couldn't press Enter to rename a file and I couldn't tab on the dialog boxes when it asked me if I wanted to keep the old extension or use the new one.

[ChrisFromCanada]

Then a calculator is your friend..

1.3 x 1.8 = 2.34

Are you talking about only G4's because by your logic you can now get a G5 that would be equal to a DUAL 4.5GHz Pentium system! :eek:

[yellow]

Are you talking about only G4's because by your logic you can now get a G5 that would be equal to a DUAL 4.5GHz Pentium system! :eek:

As noted above (in a much earlier post), this applies only to G4s.

However, I would expect the application of mathmatical modifiers to the G5/P4 comparison to be even higher. Of course, at this point you are limited hugely by mitigating factors like RAM, video card type, 64b OS, etc.

[neoelectronaut]

Apple Explains the Megahertz Myth. (http://www.esm.psu.edu/Faculty/Gray/graphics/movies/mhz_myth_320f.mov)

[ChrisFromCanada]

Apple Explains the Megahertz Myth. (http://www.esm.psu.edu/Faculty/Gray/graphics/movies/mhz_myth_320f.mov)

cool link. it must have been from some sort of macworld or mac confrence mid/late 2001. Do you have any other ones?

EDIT: whoa just found these:

http://www.esm.psu.edu/Faculty/Gray/movies.html

[neoelectronaut]

cool link. it must have been from some sort of macworld or mac confrence mid/late 2001. Do you have any other ones?

EDIT: whoa just found these:

http://www.esm.psu.edu/Faculty/Gray/movies.html

Lol, yeah, that's the page it's from.

Beat me to it.