Apple's ads couldn't convince me: REWORK THEM!

[MrCheeto]

When I was a "mac" hater prior to July 2008, I used to scoff at the Apple ads and just say, and I'm being honest here, that whatever they depicted in their ads was a lie. Seriously!

So what does this mean? It simply means that Apple needs to change their attitude from "hey moron, I'll make myself look better by putting you down" (no offense, Surely) to an approach of "look at the things you never knew a computer could do. Intruiged? Find an Apple store to learn more!".

I'm telling you, if I saw spaces and exposè and how the dock and dashboard work all those years ago, I would have cracked sooner. Microsoft exchange support BUILT IN?! Manage and edit photos, movies, music, and web pages out of the box?! Make making DVD's super easy? Make your face look like a pencil sketch? Hah.

Digressing, what I'm trying to say is Apple needs to DEMONSTRATE the product!!! Before I saw a Mac being used on Youtube I didn't understand what made them so great because the commercials left me imagining...well, not a lot since I had NOTHING to go by!

Oh, and more importantly, how do we let Apple know?

[r.j.s]

They are the way they are because they are memorable. Most people don't pay attention to commericals anyway, so if you just try to show off a feature, people are not going to remember it.

Remember, you only have ~25 sec to work with, and you have to make it stick in people's minds while being clear what product you are selling.

[MrCheeto]

And yet they demonstrate about 6 iPhone apps in one ad?

They should make their Mac ads just like the iPhone ads.

This looks like it works:

Mock Ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3yfFUwXy4A&feature=youtube_gdata)

[djellison]

what I'm trying to say is Apple needs to DEMONSTRATE the product!!!

I've been saying the same thing for three years - and be shouted down for it every time.

The reason most PC users find the I'm a Mac adverts memorable - is because how wrong they are. They pander to the very worst lies and misinformation spread by the mac community, the reinforce the vulgar, inappropriate stereotypes, and they very very rarely, if ever, mention any actual benefits of OS X at all.

That YouTube ad there is the right sort of thing, but it's a fairly dull feature - and one that Win 7 replicates anyway. Expose, Webclips, the funky 'wow' moments you occasionally get in OS X.

Personally - I don't prefer either OS - but for those who've never seen a mac, never used a mac - being told that the machine they're using is crap, they're a fat business man, and that they're machine is full of viruses (when all three are untrue ) isn't the best way to introduce someone to a different and very alien platform.

It's like asking someone to go on holiday - not by telling them how nice the weather is and the beaches are at the holiday venue - but giving them an incorrect bad weather forecast for where they already live.

[redAPPLE]

the thing is, we don't know if the ads that apple currently have, help apple sell more products or not.

at the moment, who cares, at least apple doesn't. they keep selling products very well.

in my experience, people don't get convinced to get a mac. they get interested when seeing an apple ad, but it doesn't really mean they will buy the product.

besides, imo, the consumers who already own apple products (and are happy with them) are the real marketing force. i have an iPhone, a neighbor sees it, i show him some apps etc. and then after his contract expired, guess what phone did he get...

and i did that without tell him, that his phone is crap, that he is a fat salesman etc.

[uuaschbaer]

I thought about this too. Even a simple, badly produced screencast, as they're called now, as a commercial would be more convincing than all those sitcomesque clichés packed in a little box of nauseating snideness.
It could, however, be the case that the commercials aren't intended to gain customers, but to instill fanboyism to the elitist customer base that already exists. Pecunia non olet, fanboys do.

[MrCheeto]

True. I remember helping my neighbor with his CHRONIC, I kid you not 2 emails a week, Vista issues. I brought my Mac over one time and let him fool around with the guest acount. He fell in love.

Needless to say he has a new savings "jar" for a certain fix-all.

[AdeFowler]

I agree and have been saying it for years. However, Apple sold the most Macs in its history last quarter, so I assume the ads are working. I'd still like to see some iPhone style Mac ads.

[MrCheeto]

Yeh it's clear the number of Mac users is growing but:
a. These people remain just as ignorant after switching, don't find/use all the glorious features and then ask why it's different. (Watch Frank Caliendo as some old star like Wilford Brimly complain about the iPhone being useless only to reveal it's still in the box)
b. Apple's new success has more to do with Mocrosoft's BS. The people are just getting tired of Windows and then suddenly they realize there's an alternative.

I really do with all my heart hate the fact that those sleezy dirtbags Ballmer and Gates have such a monopoly that people just take for granted, "it's a computer, it must run Windows".

Don't cry, but there are people that don't know Macs don't run Windows!!!

[allmIne]

The bottom line is that Apple's adverts work; their last quarterly accounts prove this. Changing the ads so they convince you would likely hurt the bottom line, or they'd have done it already.

It's not their concern whether people get the full experience, so long as they switch and are happy enough to keep coming back.

I thought about this too. Even a simple, badly produced screencast, as they're called now, as a commercial would be more convincing than all those sitcomesque clichés packed in a little box of nauseating snideness.
It could, however, be the case that the commercials aren't intended to gain customers, but to instill fanboyism to the elitist customer base that already exists. Pecunia non olet, fanboys do.

Nah. Fanboys, by definition, will keep buying the products. There's no need to target advertising towards them.

[djellison]

The bottom line is that Apple's adverts work; their last quarterly accounts prove this.

No - they don't actually. You have NO gauge as to if the sales are because of, or despite the adverts. There is no means by which one could have a control of the last quareter without the adverts, to see if sales would be better or worse without them

My experience - every windows using person I've heard talk about them hates them - because they're full of lies, and so they've been turned off Macs as a result.

[MacBoobsPro]

When I was a "mac" hater prior to July 2008, I used to scoff at the Apple ads and just say, and I'm being honest here, that whatever they depicted in their ads was a lie. Seriously!

So what does this mean? It simply means that Apple needs to change their attitude from "hey moron, I'll make myself look better by putting you down" (no offense, Surely) to an approach of "look at the things you never knew a computer could do. Intruiged? Find an Apple store to learn more!".

I'm telling you, if I saw spaces and exposè and how the dock and dashboard work all those years ago, I would have cracked sooner. Microsoft exchange support BUILT IN?! Manage and edit photos, movies, music, and web pages out of the box?! Make making DVD's super easy? Make your face look like a pencil sketch? Hah.

Digressing, what I'm trying to say is Apple needs to DEMONSTRATE the product!!! Before I saw a Mac being used on Youtube I didn't understand what made them so great because the commercials left me imagining...well, not a lot since I had NOTHING to go by!

Oh, and more importantly, how do we let Apple know?

They obviously work because you are now a mac user! :rolleyes:

[MrCheeto]

Read again. They didn't work, Youtube's users did.

[Bennieboy©]

adverts are'nt always gonna work at what theyre intended to do,
i dont appreciate adverts at all,

some people, ( wish it was more ) know what they want, when they want it, no need for adverts,
but for the most part more people then not are gonna appreciate adverts, that will prolly never change,

as for being a mac hater, fair enough, personally i go by what people say for feedback if i'm gonna buy something, if its good then wahey, if not then maybe wait a while to see if it gets better,

[harperjones99]

I find Bud's superbowl ads funny but they don't make me buy or want to buy Bud Light beer. I have never understood how ad people think so many of are influenced to buy something by an ad of any kind (but then again people buy a lot of crap from "call now" ads so there much be something to it). I buy things when I need or want them and can't think of a single time in my life a commercial even showed me a new product I wasn't aware was coming out or already existed.

[wesrk]

I think the ads obviously work the way they are now. Maybe they work on the majority of people, while some of us actually need to see the product in action and not just hear about how good they are.

Before I had a mac, I saw my roommate do work on his, and I remember him hitting something in the keyboard and then a bunch of little windows would come up and he would click the one he wanted, then go to work on that, and then do the same to go to another window. This went on a bunch of times in that 10 minutes. I remember thinking how hard to use a mac was, not being able to see all your open applications like in Windows and the bar at the bottom.

Of course, seeing is one thing, using is another thing completely. One day I asked him to use his mac since I notice he would hit a lot of buttons and stuff, and I wanted to know how MY experience using a mac would be like. He let me use it for like 2 hours, told me absolutely nothing about how to work with it, he said for my benefit to try and forget the way I use a computer now and that using a mac would come naturally. Next day I think I registered here and started inquiring about macs.

For me too it was a case of actually seeing it in action and using it first hand. I had seen the ads before, but since I had a fairly new laptop back then and wasn't buying, I took little notice, except to laugh at poor PC.

[Consultant]

They work.

Just because YOU don't think they work doesn't mean it's not working.

[daxomni]

They work. Just because YOU don't think they work doesn't mean it's not working.
Couldn't the same be said of your own assumption?

The unwarranted and unnecessary arrogance in this post and in this thread is exactly what the OP seems to be warning us about. I enjoy Apple products myself but I don't get why some supporters routinely admonish anyone who dares to question Apple's reasoning. Not everyone is like that, thankfully, but I've noticed when folks see that I'm using my MBP they often assume I'm just another arrogant Apple fanatic ready to bust out my pompoms at every opportunity. That's one feature I wish didn't come free with every purchase.

[aristobrat]

My experience - every windows using person I've heard talk about them hates them - because they're full of lies, and so they've been turned off Macs as a result.
That's interesting. I was in a 5 hour meeting yesterday with several Microsoft Enterprise folks giving our company their annual "these are our new offerings for next year" and the MS guys were talking about well the Windows 7 launch went, despite Apple's "great commercials", and how they really didn't like any of the Microsoft commercials, and wished MS would get commercials that were "just as effective".

Guess everyone has a different experience/perception of Apple's ads.

[harperjones99]

How do people know they work? If there were not any stupid commercials how do you know Apple wouldn't sell just as many computers and products? You cannot claim they work simply because people are buying Apple stuff. I think ad people put a little to much importance on what they do...to everyone I know commercials are an annoyance when watching TV without some DVR and sometimes good for a laugh if creative...but they do not influence purchasing.

I have a hard time imagining "Hi I am a Mac....." followed by some shallow nonsense makes anyone get up and go shopping.

[MattSepeta]

When you are talking about Ads like the Bud ones on the superbowl, they are well aware that they do not "work" how you just described.

They dont expect a single person to see the ad, then go to the store and buy some Bud due to the ad.

BUT millions of people see the ads, multiple times. It gets engrained into their psyche that Bud = funny = superbowl = cool etc..., then someday, at some liquor store, the engrained image will poke its head out, and some person may buy some bud.

Its a numbers game more than anything

[jaw04005]

Personally, I’ve always thought the Mac vs. PC Apple ads are put out there simply to preach to the choir (which includes me). They are basically goodwill ads that make the Mac community feel good about belonging to a “cool/hip/superior/premium” minority — similar to ads by BMW or Lexus.

When they come on, I always like to ask people around me what they think about the ads. I usually get one of three responses:

1) “I feel sorry for the PC guy.”
2) “I have no idea what they’re talking about, but they’re funny.”
3) “Yeah, so?”

And as much as I would like Apple to put out ads that demonstrate features of Mac OS X or iLife, it won’t happen. Apple’s tried it before with iMovie, iDVD and iPhoto.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbyssHFY-Pk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40pP1BXp-Bs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXvNxoShQso

They didn’t air long, which means they weren’t successful. Unfortunately, the average television viewer could careless.

Apple also developed a series of TV ads that never made it air, promoting 10.2 Jaguar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPmP3ojDjDg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsETXPDrg2g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bri1h7N78wA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkyVIbY5Fa4

[notjustjay]

I think the iPhone apps work because, by and large, most people have phones that can't do that stuff. You watch one of those ads and you think, "Gee, my current phone can't do GPS navigation, or start up a ZipCar, or book a hotel reservation, or identify a song on the radio. But if I bought an iPhone, I could do all those things!"

That doesn't quite work on the Mac side of things because people pretty much already have PCs that do all the same things that a Mac can do. "Macs can burn DVDs? Well, so can I. Macs can edit movies? I can do that already too. Macs can back up your files? I already know how to do that. Macs can run Office? I already do that too."

That's why the message in the Mac vs PC ads is not simply "Hey, check out what Macs can do!" but it's more "Your PC is inferior and uncool, and here's why!" Yes, it's simplistic and perhaps condescending, but that is the message that Apple is trying to get across.

[instaxgirl]

They showed about 5 of those ads in the UK a couple of years ago. 2007 maybe?

My friend who never pays attention to anything remembered the mac ads. I remember being completely stunned when she parroted back something from the ad, then laughed at whatever joke had been in it.

She hardly ever goes to the cinema and basically puts the tv on for background noise if ever. But she remembered that ad, I remember being impressed by that (surprised too). The things must be working, I don't mind them.

[Consultant]

Couldn't the same be said of your own assumption?

The unwarranted and unnecessary arrogance in this post and in this thread is exactly what the OP seems to be warning us about. I enjoy Apple products myself but I don't get why some supporters routinely admonish anyone who dares to question Apple's reasoning. Not everyone is like that, thankfully, but I've noticed when folks see that I'm using my MBP they often assume I'm just another arrogant Apple fanatic ready to bust out my pompoms at every opportunity. That's one feature I wish didn't come free with every purchase.


Someone seems unable to comprehend front page news?

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/14/apple-continues-to-demonstrate-sales-growth-in-third-quarter-2009/

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/11/11/mac-market-share-surges-to-5-in-uk/


They showed about 5 of those ads in the UK a couple of years ago. 2007 maybe?

My friend who never pays attention to anything remembered the mac ads. I remember being completely stunned when she parroted back something from the ad, then laughed at whatever joke had been in it.

She hardly ever goes to the cinema and basically puts the tv on for background noise if ever. But she remembered that ad, I remember being impressed by that (surprised too). The things must be working, I don't mind them.


Yes, I find that many non-Mac people actually memorized the ads better than Mac users.

[djellison]

Unfortunately, the average television viewer could careless.

I'm not going to let that go.


It's COULDN'T care less.

You've said the exact opposite of what you mean.

http://forums.applenova.com/images/ammo/i-could-care-less.jpg

[daxomni]

Someone seems unable to comprehend front page news?
Where is the control (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_control) for any of that data? I'm not saying the ads are working for or against Apple because I simply don't know. You were criticizing the OP for making the same leap in logic that you yourself are making. There is honestly no way for us to know conclusively that the ads are a substantially positive influence in-and-of themselves without more data to work with, data we'll probably never have. Maybe it's time to stop talking in absolutes and accept that these are merely assumptions and not unquestionable facts.

[MrCheeto]

LUL, congrats on the diagram, professor.

[I] can't think of a single time in my life a commercial even showed me a new product I wasn't aware was coming out or already existed.

Even the 1984 Macintosh ad?

Yeah now that I think of it I'm believing these ads and all ads are simply to keep you enveloped by these names/brands. Like Hannah Montana, Hannah Montana is and never will be anything but by constantly mentioning Hannah Montana the bloodsuckers at Disney create the allusion that Hannah Montana has done something in Hannah Montana's life.

And Coca-Cola, who the hell doesn't know what it is!? Yet they spend a billion dollaz a year advertising...to...troglodytes?

At any rate I do remember ads in the 90's for the iBooks and PowerBooks that actually showed the usefullness of the products. And by saying amazing things, like the Tank commercial for the PowerMac, they generate a lot of attention. Not just for the G4 but "wow, those fruit computers must really be something, all the ones in the ads are just intruiging" causing them to research the company.


I became a mac user because of the mac-advocate license that comes with every Mac. In about 2007 you would have never convinced me that macs were anything more than "pretty novelties for scarf-wearing Starbuck's sipping hippies trying to look like they're making a difference." I would shoot down ANY claim of any special features, regardless. "Did you know a mac can transport matter up to .2 lightyears?" "So what? Who even needs that? That's so stupid and pointless, and I'm sure you'd just end up materializing with half your body interwoven with some other object. Stupid macfags"

But then I started learning about computers and even opened my tower for the first time. That's when I lost all that ignorance and decided I wanted to study all computers. I used Linux for a while and eventually heard Chris Pirillo praising his Mac, and I began asking myself what was so great about the things. I started looking up Youtube videos of the MacOS in action and fell IN LOVE! It worked and did all the things just the way I always wanted but never knew! I immediately felt like my Windows computers were the most inefficient things around, and wanted a Mac with all my geek heart. Eventually I bought a white MacBook 2.4ghz and opened it in the car on the way from the store and started it up and I felt sooo great having all this sleek easy snappy freedom that I had never had with Windows.

At that time my MacBook was the greatest thing I knew...and after that first "gong" I knew I would never turn back.

[ravenvii]

I'm not going to let that go.


It's COULDN'T care less.

You've said the exact opposite of what you mean.
*snip*

Haha, I LOVE that graphic! Brilliant illustration!

[balamw]

I'm not going to let that go.

jaw04005 clearly meant that the average viewer was careless and when they weren't looking the kind folks at the Apple Store took the credit card from their wallet and bought them a Mac going by the record numbers of Macs sold.

Loved the graphic. You got one for principle/principal?

B

[djellison]

My spelling and grammar are both dreadful - but there are a few things I at least try to get right. Couldn't care less is one. Your You're is another. It's Its. There, Their, They're. Affect, Effect.

And every time I hear someone say "Arcs" rather than "Ask" - I visibly grimace.

[Dark Fiber]

... there are a few things I at least try to get right. Couldn't care less is one.

Sorry, but this isn't a case of right and wrong, it is just a difference between British and American English. Your diagram does show how illogical the latter usage is; as Prof. Henry Higgins put it: "There are places where English completely disappears/ in America, they haven't spoken it for years"

[KingYaba]

"I'm a Mac" lost its charm months ago.

[allmIne]

No - they don't actually. You have NO gauge as to if the sales are because of, or despite the adverts. There is no means by which one could have a control of the last quareter without the adverts, to see if sales would be better or worse without them

My experience - every windows using person I've heard talk about them hates them - because they're full of lies, and so they've been turned off Macs as a result.

They've had their best ever quarter, topping off consecutive market share rises, while using the same advert formula for how long now? Yes, it's an assumption the adverts are working, but it's one I'm happy to make. I agree with Consultant, in that we must deal in assumptions; there's no way to know factually what impact the ads have, but taken circumstantially with increased revenue and market share, it's a safe assumption the ads are having a positive impact.

I do totally understand your point though; it's impossible to say for certain.

By the way; thanks for picking up on the 'could care less' thing - English or American, it's ridiculous!

[tabasco70]

I mean they have proffesional marketers executing their advertisments and promotions. Not to mention their sales have been exponentially increasing.

Pretty sure they're doing pretty well with their current scheme.

[allmIne]

I mean they have proffesional marketers executing their advertisments and promotions. Not to mention their sales have been exponentially increasing.

Pretty sure they're doing pretty well with their current scheme.

Fundamentally, this is correct. The market share statistics point to an increase in first time switchers, indicating the ads are working as desired.

We can't be any more sure than that, but I'm not sure we'd need to be.

[MrCheeto]

I think it's a combo effect, like Mortal Kombat or some s*#%. First the ads introduce the word "mac" to people, then when they come by someone using "one of those computers with the Apple they've heard so much about", they inquire about it. Then the Apple user exhibits his Mac Advocate license that come free with every Mac and in no time the unsuspecting inquirer is saving up for a 17" MacBook Pro.

You know, half of the people that have told me "I can't figure out this freaking thing, I'm going back to the old stuff" have, strangely, purchased a top-of-the-line model as their first Mac...shame. They should buy an OLD used one for like $200 or barrow a friend's just to get a feel for the OS and deciding if they want it without laying down $3000.


Also, screw jur grammer. As long as the point is driven in then there is no need to stop and pull your hair out for sayin "ain't", which, by the way, IS a word of Irish origin.
You want to talk about senseless crap, explain the expression, "the _______ were all but _____". It makes no freaking sense and I'd like to slap Dr. Phillius Beakly for using it.

Besides, the English don't even speak English. "meself" and "me caw" as opposed to MYself and MY CAR. Who the hell decided "ey! All dem le'uz yuh see, fu'geh 'em! Eez much emmuzin ta jes make like theh noht eeven theh!"

[tbrinkma]

I'm not going to let that go.


It's COULDN'T care less.

You've said the exact opposite of what you mean.

http://forums.applenova.com/images/ammo/i-could-care-less.jpg

Regardless of what your graphic shows, you've misread the meaning of the phrase. The trick to truely understanding the difference between, "I could care less" and "I couldn't care less" lies in the fact that there really isn't one. Mind you, I understand where the confusion comes from if you view the statements literally and without a complete understanding of them.

Both phrases convey a state of utter apathy to the point that neither phrase is ever actually spoken/written in their entirety. The first ("I couldn't care less"), is the abbreviated form of "I couldn't care less, even if I wanted to. The second ("I could care less"), is the abbreviated form of "I could care less, but I can't be bothered to try."

In either case, you care so little that you can't be bothered to make the effort required to care less. In the first case, the phrase indicates impossibility, but the phrase itself also indicates that this is an exaggeration. After all, you obviously care enough to make the statement in the first place, so obviously, on a technical level, you *could* care less. The latter statement directly indicates that the speaker/writer cares so little that they lack the motivation to care less.

[uuaschbaer]

Regardless of what your graphic shows, you've misread the meaning of the phrase. The trick to truely understanding the difference between, "I could care less" and "I couldn't care less" lies in the fact that there really isn't one. Mind you, I understand where the confusion comes from if you view the statements literally and without a complete understanding of them.

Both phrases convey a state of utter apathy to the point that neither phrase is ever actually spoken/written in their entirety. The first ("I couldn't care less"), is the abbreviated form of "I couldn't care less, even if I wanted to. The second ("I could care less"), is the abbreviated form of "I could care less, but I can't be bothered to try."

In either case, you care so little that you can't be bothered to make the effort required to care less. In the first case, the phrase indicates impossibility, but the phrase itself also indicates that this is an exaggeration. After all, you obviously care enough to make the statement in the first place, so obviously, on a technical level, you *could* care less. The latter statement directly indicates that the speaker/writer cares so little that they lack the motivation to care less.

He did completely understand both phrases, he just didn't rationalize a mistake. Not that it matters, language isn't rational. Tomorrow people will say 'I care less, could I not?' The day after tomorrow people will say: 'That's wrong.' And the day after that people will say: 'No it's not wrong, it actually means this or that if you look at it from this perspective.'
Language evolves, and it will never be logically correct. That would make it unusable.

[MrCheeto]

It's also fun to think of it in this way. If we were to be required to speak every word and term with 100% correctitude and didn't allow for extrapolation (guessing what the person meant) we would be like a command line interface. Miss one space, comma or letter and you've either broken something or it will simply tell you "bugger off, I can't understand a thing you've said". And like with a CLI, we would have to walk around with a dictionary and thesaurus speaking less than a word a minute as we search for the right words!

Trust me, it's just better to adapt your speech for each situation. If you use archaic esoteric words you will only confuse the person you're speaking to, and what good does that do anyone you pretentious Frasier twat.

[uuaschbaer]

It's also fun to think of it in this way. If we were to be required to speak every word and term with 100% correctitude and didn't allow for extrapolation (guessing what the person meant) we would be like a command line interface. Miss one space, comma or letter and you've either broken something or it will simply tell you "bugger off, I can't understand a thing you've said". And like with a CLI, we would have to walk around with a dictionary and thesaurus speaking less than a word a minute as we search for the right words!

Trust me, it's just better to adapt your speech for each situation. If you use archaic esoteric words you will only confuse the person you're speaking to, and what good does that do anyone you pretentious Frasier twat.

Hey, I like Frasier! :(

[MrCheeto]

Yeah, me too, but I hate the people that act like they're super Awesome-o because they know too much about crap that nobody cares about. Like Frank Sanatra-like Muzak and floutists and a bunch of paint splatters or sculptures made of garbage that they call "art". Seriously, hippies and democrats...it's nothing political so don't start bringing Michael Moore and other conspiracy coocs into this.

[daxomni]

Maybe the Consultant was right to write you off from the start; you sound a little unhinged. Take that stuff to the political area or keep it to yourself.

[Surely]

So what does this mean? It simply means that Apple needs to change their attitude from "hey moron, I'll make myself look better by putting you down" (no offense, Surely) to an approach of "look at the things you never knew a computer could do. Intruiged? Find an Apple store to learn more!".


Um... what?:confused:

[MrCheeto]

Consultant? GTFO noobert

[tbrinkma]

He did completely understand both phrases, he just didn't rationalize a mistake. Not that it matters, language isn't rational. Tomorrow people will say 'I care less, could I not?' The day after tomorrow people will say: 'That's wrong.' And the day after that people will say: 'No it's not wrong, it actually means this or that if you look at it from this perspective.'
Language evolves, and it will never be logically correct. That would make it unusable.

I didn't rationalize a mistake. I simply explained why/how, contrary to what a literal reading might imply, the two phrases carry the same meaning. The two phrases *do*, in fact, carry the same meaning, so claiming otherwise (even with a graphic) is in error.

You are correct that language changes over time, though. I give it about 5 years before 'figuratively' becomes an official alternative definition of 'literally'. :eek: :confused: :rolleyes:

(As in, "You literally knocked their socks off with that speech.")

After all, 'ginormous' is considered a real word these days.

[Surely]

Off topic: That's more like it.




On topic: I like the Apple ads. I've never heard anything negative about them from people I know, even from my PC-using friends.

[Winni]

When I was a "mac" hater prior to July 2008, I used to scoff at the Apple ads and just say, and I'm being honest here, that whatever they depicted in their ads was a lie. Seriously!

So what does this mean? It simply means that Apple needs to change their attitude from "hey moron, I'll make myself look better by putting you down" (no offense, Surely) to an approach of "look at the things you never knew a computer could do. Intruiged? Find an Apple store to learn more!".

I'm telling you, if I saw spaces and exposè and how the dock and dashboard work all those years ago, I would have cracked sooner. Microsoft exchange support BUILT IN?! Manage and edit photos, movies, music, and web pages out of the box?! Make making DVD's super easy? Make your face look like a pencil sketch? Hah.

Digressing, what I'm trying to say is Apple needs to DEMONSTRATE the product!!! Before I saw a Mac being used on Youtube I didn't understand what made them so great because the commercials left me imagining...well, not a lot since I had NOTHING to go by!

Oh, and more importantly, how do we let Apple know?

Why should we care? Apple is a company that sells products at high prices. They are not a lifestyle, a philosophy or a religion. They are no social community. They are not (y)our friends.

All those things that you find so convincing can also be done with an average PC. Some come with the software for that pre-installed and on others that software either has to be bought or downloaded - in form of Open Source software - and installed.

Apple's computers and software don't have any magical or mystical features that no-one else has. They're just quite good at making you believe that this is the case. But it's not. Download Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic and be amazed what others can do -- and that free of charge. With the full source code. And granting you all the rights to do with that software whatever pleases you.

And if that Multimedia stuff really excites you so much, download Ubuntu Studio. That's also free. And it even runs on your Mac.

Yes, there is great software that's exclusive to the Mac. Aperture or Scrivener, for example.

There is also -MORE- useful and important software on the market that's exclusive to Windows. Everything that has the word CORPORATE or ENTERPRISE or BUSINESS on them, for example. But also tons of audio and video software products - including stuff from Adobe, by the way.

And there is a lot of Open Source software out there. Some of it runs only on Open Source platforms, but a lot of it has been ported to Windows or OS X.

Anyway. The message is that Macs are not as special as Apple wants to make you believe. They have nice designs, but they are also a minority platform. And the latter is not going to change unless Apple opens OS X to other hardware vendors. The world won't lock itself into Apple hard- and software. It's not going to happen. PCs are such a huge success because they have a consolidated software platform, but a gigantic range of different configurations and manufacturers.

Oh, and Apple's ads are childish and deliver a message that might have been relatively close to the truth in the early 1990s. However, somebody at Apple hasn't yet caught up with reality and didn't notice that Microsoft released a rock solid multi-tasking operating system in the early 90s that was called Windows NT - and which is now the foundation of all of their systems. And said NT is faster, more robust and more multi-tasking ready than Snow Leopard. End of discussion.

[MrCheeto]

You fool, you're talking with someone who lived with Windows since NT and used every flavor of Linux you could name!

The FACT is that no matter what, most people simply CAN'T and therefore won't use Linux, it's about as difficult to use as a switchboard without a single label. No matter who I turned to most of the installing/configuring process is command line level and all the other stuff is hell on my brain because the interface is even more, yes MOAR, of a clunktastic interface than any Microsoft product. I was in HELL using every OS, but then I saw the MacOS on Youtube and it clicked, it was the operating system I would have made if given the opportunity, everything is just natural. No headaches, no constant issues and 90% of the functions come NATURALLY to me! Apple pioneered point-click and drag and drop.

'nix is by far the OS with the greatest potential, the problem is it's like a jet fighter, it can break the freaking sound barrier but only if operated by the right person! MacOS has close to that power but less controls to do the same job.

MacOS is the perfect combination of UNIX foundation and a NATURAL clean interface. Oh, did nobody tell you that Leopard and Snow Leopard are UNIX certified and the source code is open?

You can keep to what works for you like everyone else. Like I said, Navy pilots can be trained to use complex machines, but if there's an alternative to have that power in something as natural as a bicycle, I'd choose it instead.

Some people take such pride in keeping to complicated things. Get over it, Mr. "I know how to shift a tank".

Why use an axe when there are chainsaws?

[Topher15]

I think it's about time Apple changed their ads. Not because the current ones are bad, but I think it's about time they update them. Here's (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=570800) a thread I made a while back to discuss what Apple could do next.

No - they don't actually. You have NO gauge as to if the sales are because of, or despite the adverts. There is no means by which one could have a control of the last quareter without the adverts, to see if sales would be better or worse without them
Look at territories where the ads don't run. Do they (the US ads) even run in the UK. I've never seen them? The British version was dropped years ago.

There we go: compare the last quarter in the US (ads air) and the UK (ads do not air).

Either way, there is one thing we can be sure of: the ads are not having a negative effect on Apples sales figures.

My experience - every windows using person I've heard talk about them hates them - because they're full of lies, and so they've been turned off Macs as a result.
Where are the lies? They depict real issues with Windows. Microsoft would have taken legal action is Apple were actually lying.

[MrCheeto]

Oh great, now you've got me on a whole other trip.

Nothing erks me more than Microsoft's attack on ignoramuses. They go something like this:
"wow could you imagine a computer that could allow mutliple applications to run simultaneously? Well, it's a reality with windows 7"

um, so they're bragging about something a decade behind? These morons will point out something the Mac has been doing for decades and even WINDOWS has been doing as if it's the quantum shift that will ignite artificial intelligence and robot servants. Yet the viewer has no questions and simply laps it up like a good sheep. It should be illegal, some sort of disclosure law, call it "NSS" (No sh** Sherlock)

I guess Microsoft succeded at something for once. They've found a way to invent something that's already been invented :x

[Revels]

I don't remember the last time (in the UK) that I saw an add that wasn't for iPod/iPhone.

There's been a few for the new shuffle but other than that it's all Touch/iPhone.

I've not seen anything for the new iMac/Macbooks at all.

[jim4spam]

For me the question would be "what are the ads for?". In the case of computer users, I would think most people would go to a store or see a mac in a friend's house to be exposed to it, therefore seeing a TV ad showing Mac product usage wouldn't do much good. However releasing an ad that says "there is a choice, go explore it" opens up awareness. The other part of not showing Mac product usage is that there is no "killer feature" to show. Yes there are cool things in OSX and it works, but nothing that can't be done more or less similarly on other platforms.

That's why you'll see host of iPhone/Ipod touch ads showing screenshots, because they are really different gadgets to what people (like joe-in-the-street) are used to.

The other reason why ads work it that is reinforces in people that they made the right buying decision, to promote that little sense of reassurance that they made the right choice. So in a way they are not really always aimed at new users - but also recent purchasers and repeating customers.

[MrCheeto]

Sure there isn't a killer feature, but there is one thing they have that Microsoft couldn't replicate if they bought OS X! EAS OF USE!!! Show the lack of headach in performing "major" tasks that start and finish with a click!

[jim4spam]

I couldn't agree more (and indeed that why we're here) however is that worth being shown in an advert? Instead Apple seems to rely on (and perhaps encourage) an evangelical zeal amongst its users. I was introduced to a Mac by my father-in-law. I was amazed that Mac magazines were full of pages telling me how to do stuff rather than the Pc magazines being full of how to fix stuff. And when my PC died, I replaced it with an iMac.

I wonder whether, despite earlier posters saying there is too much apple arrogance about, the "pride" in the user community is what pushes out the word. Or at least, I'm curious how much is due to 'viral' vs 'conventional' adverts.. Perhaps we'll never know

[MrCheeto]

Here's something more like it. I made this to DEMONSTRATE MacOS, not bash Windows. Fudge.

Apple would get more respect if they didn't act like a playground bully.

Mock Ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq_Xp2S_5mY)

[djellison]

BRILLIANT.

It's a feature I just can't get on with personally - but it's a great ad - THAT's what they should be doing.

You could do a great one with, say, dashboard and webclips.

[MrCheeto]

Sure, post anything you have in mind in my videos thread, here. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=821598)

[MTI]

Apple did promote iPhoto '09 in the "Stacks" Get a Mac series.
They also promoted iMovie, remember the ad where PC's movie is a guy in drag?

Short term memory loss, such a terrible thing. ;)

[MrCheeto]

Excuse me? Think again. I remember these ads, I've seen every one and remember them well. But do they show it in action?! Do they?!

Tsk, guess not.

[MTI]

Excuse me? Think again. I remember these ads, I've seen every one and remember them well. But do they show it in action?! Do they?!

Tsk, guess not.


I understand that, but instead of a "Keynote" style commercial, Chiat Day & Apple reinforced the existing ad campaign/brand by showing how switching to a Mac gave you access to better software tools than on a PC.

The "Get a Mac" series of ads has been quite a winner for Apple's computing product line, but who knows what the future will bring. Some might recall that PC users were looking at a long line of "Dude, You're Getting a Dell" ads . . . until the guy was busted for weed. :D

[*LTD*]

Excuse me? Think again. I remember these ads, I've seen every one and remember them well. But do they show it in action?! Do they?!

Tsk, guess not.

No need to. Advertising works on a variety of levels. Sometimes a single image is all that is needed.

You need to think beyond the 2-3 feet of personal space that you occupy.

YOU aren't convinced?? Big friggin deal. Many others ARE convinced. Apple's ads have won numerous awards and are incredibly memorable. And in light of Apple's record Mac sales, quarter after quarter, questioning the effectiveness of Apple's marketing is rather daft.

[MrCheeto]

What you forget is the number of people that just hate the ads. So many people talk about how pretentious Mac-users are...hm...I wonder where they got that notion...gee

[Surely]

And what is that number?

I seem to have forgotten as well.

[*LTD*]

What you forget is the number of people that just hate the ads.

Clearly in no way shape or form enough to have any kind of impact. This whole "Apple's ads aren't convincing" discussion is a complete waste of time. If a minority on Mac fansites don't like the ads, so what. Clearly the ads are working, and even if we push the argument and say the ads are not working, they certainly aren't hurting Apple. Apple's got a winning formula and they haven't changed it because there's no reason to. They're selling *more* macs in a recession, despite opposing ads put out by the competition that trumpet the specs and availability of cheaper hardware, which, by the way, were about as effective as a pair of thermal underwear in Death Valley at high noon.

Besides, what exactly is your basis for comparison? The Laptop Hunter ad campaign which was a colossal failure?

This entire thread is laughable. I'm surprised someone bothered to start it. Why not instead discuss the shortcomings (putting it mildly) of MS' marketing? Clearly, there's enough material there to fill an entire forum, never mind a thread. And while you're at it, call Apple and tell them they're doing it wrong. At least you'll give someone on the other end of the line a good laugh.

By highlighting the competition's deficiencies (and there's plenty of material there), Apple is implying by default that their own products achieve the opposite. Pretty simple. If Vista is virus-ridden, that must mean OS X is not. If Vista kills puppies, that must mean OS does not, and so on. Whatever Apple highlights as a negative, also suggests that Apple's product is the opposite. the logic behind the ads is pretty simple, and since Windows has a horrible reputation in the public consciousness (going back decades), it's pretty easy for the average individual to relate to the ads on some level. They're simply reaffirming what we already knew and suspected all along, while offering an alternative. Simple, easy to understand, no technical jargon. Apple gets the message across and does it in a clever, stylish, fun and most importantly, memorable way. The ads are pure marketing gold. Apple can change them when they no longer rule the Premium end, have stopped being recession proof, and have stopped breaking Mac sales records, outpacing the rest of the industry by leaps and bounds. In other words, don't hold your breath.

And as to your sig, the reason we quote is to provide context via convenient visual cues, especially useful when there are numerous participants in a discussion. There's a reason nearly every forum has a quote system or some other visual notifier (like indentations) to separate parts of the diiscussion. This aids the reader, as in they don't have to scroll all the way up and wade through posts to follow the discussion. It also serves to highlight the particular section of someone's post that is being replied to. This should be obvious to anyone.

Wow, are you ever clueless. So you might want to REWORK your sig before you go advising the single most influential tech company of the past decade how to do their marketing.

[MTI]

So many people talk about how pretentious Mac-users are...hm...I wonder where they got that notion...gee

Actually, it's a common stereotype of the consumers of Apple products, but it's become a stereotype because there is some truth to the label. The early "Cult of Apple" stereotype was the tie-dyed shirt wearing, Bierkenstock shod guys at the Apple ][ and then the "post-1984" MUG meetings.

However, just as all PC users aren't nerdy geeks or slaves to spreadsheets and wordprocessing documents; not all Apple users are smug anti-establishment visionaries thinking different.

[Goona]

No - they don't actually. You have NO gauge as to if the sales are because of, or despite the adverts. There is no means by which one could have a control of the last quareter without the adverts, to see if sales would be better or worse without them

My experience - every windows using person I've heard talk about them hates them - because they're full of lies, and so they've been turned off Macs as a result.

Hey think about this for a minute, since they aired the commercials, their sales have increased, wait...their sales have increased. Why should they stop airing them. Think carefully...

[hakuryuu]

besides, imo, the consumers who already own apple products (and are happy with them) are the real marketing force. i have an iPhone, a neighbor sees it, i show him some apps etc. and then after his contract expired, guess what phone did he get...


Yep, my coworker bought a mac after sitting next to me for several months while I worked on my mac pro/MBP and he worked on his windows desktop. I have at least 3 people I know thinking about buying a mac after seeing me use one or talking to me about it. They spend all day being frustrated with windows while I spend my day without any problems.

[MrCheeto]

Clearly in no way shape or form enough to have any kind of impact. This whole "Apple's ads aren't convincing" discussion is a complete waste of time. If a minority on Mac fansites don't like the ads, so what. Clearly the ads are working, and even if we push the argument and say the ads are not working, they certainly aren't hurting Apple. Apple's got a winning formula and they haven't changed it because there's no reason to. They're selling *more* macs in a recession, despite opposing ads put out by the competition that trumpet the specs and availability of cheaper hardware, which, by the way, were about as effective as a pair of thermal underwear in Death Valley at high noon.

Besides, what exactly is your basis for comparison? The Laptop Hunter ad campaign which was a colossal failure?

This entire thread is laughable. I'm surprised someone bothered to start it. Why not instead discuss the shortcomings (putting it mildly) of MS' marketing? Clearly, there's enough material there to fill an entire forum, never mind a thread. And while you're at it, call Apple and tell them they're doing it wrong. At least you'll give someone on the other end of the line a good laugh.

By highlighting the competition's deficiencies (and there's plenty of material there), Apple is implying by default that their own products achieve the opposite. Pretty simple. If Vista is virus-ridden, that must mean OS X is not. If Vista kills puppies, that must mean OS does not, and so on. Whatever Apple highlights as a negative, also suggests that Apple's product is the opposite. the logic behind the ads is pretty simple, and since Windows has a horrible reputation in the public consciousness (going back decades), it's pretty easy for the average individual to relate to the ads on some level. They're simply reaffirming what we already knew and suspected all along, while offering an alternative. Simple, easy to understand, no technical jargon. Apple gets the message across and does it in a clever, stylish, fun and most importantly, memorable way. The ads are pure marketing gold. Apple can change them when they no longer rule the Premium end, have stopped being recession proof, and have stopped breaking Mac sales records, outpacing the rest of the industry by leaps and bounds. In other words, don't hold your breath.

And as to your sig, the reason we quote is to provide context via convenient visual cues, especially useful when there are numerous participants in a discussion. There's a reason nearly every forum has a quote system or some other visual notifier (like indentations) to separate parts of the diiscussion. This aids the reader, as in they don't have to scroll all the way up and wade through posts to follow the discussion. It also serves to highlight the particular section of someone's post that is being replied to. This should be obvious to anyone.

Wow, are you ever clueless. So you might want to REWORK your sig before you go advising the single most influential tech company of the past decade how to do their marketing.

Apple's ads most likely work because for once they're shoving their name into people's faces. Who remembers the Macintosh? Those things were EVERYWHERE and in almost every boss' office, why? Because they're frequent ads put an idea into people's heads that they wouldn't have gone off in search for. Read the comments on any Apple ad on youtube, they all go something like this: "You smug *$# all these commercials are such lies! You're a bunch of brainwashed *#$%"

At any rate, it's sad that Apple measures their OS not by Apple standards, but by the shortcomings of another company. Why can't it just be great on its own? When I use my computer I think "wow, this is great, and that's great, woah this is just great!" I don't think "that crap woulda been hard or impossible in Windows, man I'm glad I'm using something other than Windows"

Now don't sit here and preach correlations to me. You know what else correlates with the recent success of Apple? The Intel Transition, the High Court of Justice passing down a judgment in favor of Apple Inc. in the case of Apple Corps vs. Apple Computer, the release of Vista, Mission Impossible III, the Nepalese declaring a cease-fire in the Nepal civil-war, and in 2007 the release of Leopard...

You see, it's impossible to know how effective the ads have been. Most people aren't going to go research it out of the blue after seeing the ad, they're going to wait until their computer dies, go shopping at Best Buy and in a small likeliness the floor-man will take them over to the Apple table and the ads will click in their mind...again a small likeliness.

I have a feeling it's a mixed effort. The ads convinced some people, and those people convince their friends. Hell if not for the people I knew online I wouldn't even know what a Mac was, to be honest. Now when I'm on a flight and doing spreadsheets, charts and editing pictures and movies all at the same time the people next to me will tap my shoulder and coyly say "um, I just happened to look over and saw this thing...what is that? Woah...how do you do that?" Then when they go shopping they have those tiny "wow's" in mind, influencing their purchase decision.

Was this easy to keep up with? Thank gawd I quoted allllll of your text to provide context via convenient visual cues. I didn't want you to sweat it out.

[thegoldenmackid]

MrCheeto, your signature and posting habits don't comply with one another. Apple has a website attatched to all their ads http://apple.com/getamac. This site clearly outlines the advantages (in non-comical terms) of owning a Mac to a PC. In 30 second it would seem hard to effectively capture the reasons one would pay significantly more for a machine because it was designed in Cupertino, whatever the case - I don't think it matters, Apple is doing fine overall and seems content with their market-share and its steady and consistent growth.

[MrCheeto]

MrCheeto, your signature and posting habits don't comply with one another.

How so? Can you illustrate?

At any rate should we really take this thing off track just to talk about a sig? I'm requesting people don't quote ME because I don't need a whole paragraph reiterated to me, the origin. Just saying you don't HAVE to quote me for me to understand what's going on in a conversation in which I'm involved.

Edit: I love the droid? Stop making me love things! >8

[thegoldenmackid]

How so? Can you illustrate?

At any rate should we really take this thing off track just to talk about a sig? I'm requesting people don't quote ME because I don't need a whole paragraph reiterated to me, the origin. Just saying you don't HAVE to quote me for me to understand what's going on in a conversation in which I'm involved.

For anyone besides the two posting, it makes it easier as they can see what is being responded to. Also in this instance since you have made numerous posts in the thread @MrCheeto would like cause confusion to what post I was responding to. This is not as relevant in a thread where one makes numerous posts on the same topic, as opposed to this one there are now two separate topics.

In the end it helps the two not in the conversation, i.e. everyonelse. So while it might be annoying for you, for the rest of us it might be helpful.

I realized the Droid post took away from my larger consistent argument. Whatever the case is, that style of marketing is clearly effective as Verizon based almost the entirety of a monster marketing campaign on comparing to competitors.

[Surely]

^^^^^^ Oh, doesn't MrCheeto make the rules around here?


Apple's ads most likely work because for once they're shoving their name into people's faces. Who remembers the Macintosh? Those things were EVERYWHERE and in almost every boss' office, why? Because they're frequent ads put an idea into people's heads that they wouldn't have gone off in search for. Read the comments on any Apple ad on youtube, they all go something like this: "You smug *$# all these commercials are such lies! You're a bunch of brainwashed *#$%"

Yeah, because the people who write rude and idiotic comments on YouTube is representative of the entire population.:rolleyes:

I don't even know what you're trying to say in the bolded part. I remember the MacIntosh. I own two of them right now (see my sig).


At any rate, it's sad that Apple measures their OS not by Apple standards, but by the shortcomings of another company. Why can't it just be great on its own? When I use my computer I think "wow, this is great, and that's great, woah this is just great!" I don't think "that crap woulda been hard or impossible in Windows, man I'm glad I'm using something other than Windows"

Now don't sit here and preach correlations to me. You know what else correlates with the recent success of Apple? The Intel Transition, the High Court of Justice passing down a judgment in favor of Apple Inc. in the case of Apple Corps vs. Apple Computer, the release of Vista, Mission Impossible III, the Nepalese declaring a cease-fire in the Nepal civil-war, and in 2007 the release of Leopard...

You see, it's impossible to know how effective the ads have been. Most people aren't going to go research it out of the blue after seeing the ad, they're going to wait until their computer dies, go shopping at Best Buy and in a small likeliness the floor-man will take them over to the Apple table and the ads will click in their mind...again a small likeliness.


It's impossible to know how effective the ads have been? Because you can't figure it out, so it's impossible? Maybe you should consult a marketing specialist and ask him/her if it's impossible to determine how effective an ad campaign is. They'll tell you different.


I have a feeling it's a mixed effort. The ads convinced some people, and those people convince their friends. Hell if not for the people I knew online I wouldn't even know what a Mac was, to be honest. Now when I'm on a flight and doing spreadsheets, charts and editing pictures and movies all at the same time the people next to me will tap my shoulder and coyly say "um, I just happened to look over and saw this thing...what is that? Woah...how do you do that?" Then when they go shopping they have those tiny "wow's" in mind, influencing their purchase decision.


Sounds like a real scenario. Someone tapped on your shoulder while you were on a plane, and asked you what a laptop is? For reals and trues?:rolleyes:


Was this easy to keep up with? Thank gawd I quoted allllll of your text to provide context via convenient visual cues. I didn't want you to sweat it out.

Was there really a need for that? Obnoxious.....

[MrCheeto]

In the end it helps the two not in the conversation, i.e. everyonelse. So while it might be annoying for you, for the rest of us it might be helpful.

-.-' well..if it's for a selfless cause...


Sounds like a real scenario. Someone tapped on your shoulder while you were on a plane, and asked you what a laptop is? For reals?


Oh I'm sorry I didn't elaborate. Using Exposé, Spaces, the Dock and Stacks, iPhoto and Numbers I have been asked numerous times to explain what a Mac is by curious inquisitors. I'm sorry you couldn't be reasonable enough to figure, NO, I wasn't talking about a laptop -.-' What reason would I have to lie anyway? Don't bother, I don't care.

[thegoldenmackid]

I'm wondering what you wish Apple to do in a 30 second commercial?

[Surely]

Oh I'm sorry I didn't elaborate. Using Exposé, Spaces, the Dock and Stacks, iPhoto and Numbers I have been asked numerous times to explain what a Mac is by curious inquisitors. I'm sorry you couldn't be reasonable enough to figure, NO, I wasn't talking about a laptop -.-' What reason would I have to lie anyway? Don't bother, I don't care.

Your reason to lie would be to bolster the point you are attempting to make.

I'm wondering what you wish Apple to do in a 30 second commercial?

I would guess something that is counterintuitive to successful marketing strategies.

[thegoldenmackid]

I would guess something that is counterintuitive to successful marketing strategies.

I mean, in MrCheeto's defense, Apple does use this marketing with the iPhone - I do however think that quite a few people actually go to the website where they can learn tons more.

[MrCheeto]

Think.....SEGA :cool:

No wait! *remembers SEGA hardware is now defunct*

Oh yeah! Hm...what is that one phone that's hugely successful? By that fruit company?

OH, snap!

Make ads similar to the hugely successful iPhone ads where the person is demonstrated a feature. What if all the iPhone commercials had no video? Imagine, just go to Apple and listen to an ad...oh right! Half of the effectiveness is the WOW of seeing these apps in action!


Now that one person has said something another doesn't agree on, let's all gang up on him! Yeah! :D Our lives mean nothing unless we're ganging up on someone else! ^.^

[Surely]

Think.....SEGA :cool:

No wait! *remembers SEGA hardware is now defunct*

Oh yeah! Hm...what is that one phone that's hugely successful? By that fruit company?

OH, snap!


Um.. what?:confused:


Make ads similar to the hugely successful iPhone ads where the person is demonstrated a feature. What if all the iPhone commercials had no video? Imagine, just go to Apple and listen to an ad...oh right! Half of the effectiveness is the WOW of seeing these apps in action!

Why should they, if their Mac ads are popular, successful, highly recognizable, and award winning (http://www.pcworld.com/article/132722/mac_ads_honored_as_most_effective.html)? The whole point of a 30 second commercial is to force the audience to remember the product and the company. That is exactly what the ads do. It sounds like you want a custom-made commercial just for you.


Now that one person has said something another doesn't agree on, let's all gang up on him! Yeah! :D Our lives mean nothing unless we're ganging up on someone else! ^.^

Who are you talking about? You do realize that this is how forums work, right? Someone says something, and people will either agree or disagree.

[BlackiBook]

Who are you talking about? You do realize that this is how forums work, right? Someone says something, and people will either agree or disagree.

That cant be right!!! :O Everyone agrees on forums, especially Macrumors!

[thegoldenmackid]

Who are you talking about? You do realize that this is how forums work, right? Someone says something, and people will either agree or disagree.
Now is the point in which one stops. See Point #1 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=8835427&postcount=14).

[MrCheeto]

Debating and attacking are the same now?

Why don't you look back at my debates with Thegoldenmackid and other respectable mods and then compare them with our own. Try something a little more respectful and let's see what you get in return ;)

[Surely]

LOL

Attacking? Who's attacking anyone? Relaxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

I don't need your permission to post my opinion. I haven't been disrespectful. I haven't been insulting.

I've stayed on topic.

You haven't.

P.S. thegoldenmackid isn't a mod.

Sir.

And your post below this one doesn't help your cause.

[MrCheeto]

Hold on a second...


wait...


wait for it...


and...

ok, I'm done caring.

[djellison]

Hey think about this for a minute, since they aired the commercials, their sales have increased, wait...their sales have increased. Why should they stop airing them. Think carefully...

No - YOU think carefully.

Were the Ads never to have aired, would sales have increase, stayed the same or decreased.

Answer - don't know.

If they aired different ads, would sales have increase, stayed the same or decreased.

Answer - don't know.

So - can you state that these adverts are responsible for increasing sales?

NO.

It is entirely plausible that ads demonstrating the benefits of a Mac rather than lying about Windows would have increased sales even further. We just don't know.

Consider the success of the iPhone - it's ads actually show the device working - what it does - how it does it. THOSE ads, I think, are superb (after they stopped lying about device speed) They don't spend their time lambasting Blackberrys or HTC's or whatever.

What I DO know is the current Mac v PC ads are intentionally misleading and dishonest, they pander to Mac stereotypes, and I, for one, purchased my first mac DESPITE the adverts, not BECAUSE of the adverts. I know people who refuse - yes - flat out refuse to purchase a Mac (or even have one put on their desk at work - even if they're not paying, they'd prefer Windows ) because of the obnoxious stereotypes those adverts and this community promote.

We have no means to judge the efficacy of the adverts.

Anyone claiming these ads 'work' is being as dishonest as the adverts themselves.

[MrCheeto]

They don't spend their time lambasting Blackberrys or HTC's or whatever.

Wait a second, if I remember right the last 2 iPhone ads end with the line, "Does YOUR phone on YOUR network do that?!"

:P But other than that, the iPhone skyrocketed to it's current place long before they decided to poke fun at the pudgy slow kid on the playground.

[djellison]

I'm not fully aware of US ads - but iirc, are those not AT&T vs Verizon ads, rather than Apple ads?

[MrCheeto]

They're Apple ads, but I'm sure they're geared to cover AT&T's back.

Apple.com ads (http://www.apple.com/iphone/gallery/ads/)

[*LTD*]

No - YOU think carefully.

Were the Ads never to have aired, would sales have increase, stayed the same or decreased.

Answer - don't know.

If they aired different ads, would sales have increase, stayed the same or decreased.

Answer - don't know.

So - can you state that these adverts are responsible for increasing sales?

NO.

It is entirely plausible that ads demonstrating the benefits of a Mac rather than lying about Windows would have increased sales even further. We just don't know.

Consider the success of the iPhone - it's ads actually show the device working - what it does - how it does it. THOSE ads, I think, are superb (after they stopped lying about device speed) They don't spend their time lambasting Blackberrys or HTC's or whatever.

What I DO know is the current Mac v PC ads are intentionally misleading and dishonest, they pander to Mac stereotypes, and I, for one, purchased my first mac DESPITE the adverts, not BECAUSE of the adverts. I know people who refuse - yes - flat out refuse to purchase a Mac (or even have one put on their desk at work - even if they're not paying, they'd prefer Windows ) because of the obnoxious stereotypes those adverts and this community promote.

We have no means to judge the efficacy of the adverts.

Anyone claiming these ads 'work' is being as dishonest as the adverts themselves.

Apple's doing everything right . . . except their ads?? They're masters of marketing, but the ads aren't really playing a role in their record Mac sales, and their outpacing of the industry year after year. The first Get a Mac ads also happened to air in 2006 and run until the present, which is also exactly the timeframe in which we have seen Mac share increase substantially.

Market share grew by 42%, Apple had record sales, and the campaign was influential culturally as well.

But we just can't be sure . . .

Right. :rolleyes:

[MrCheeto]

Again, if you read my list of other correlations you'd understand there are plenty of other "explanations" we can all jump to.

The point is, no matter how good they're doing they could be doing better. What's better than tearing Windows down to build Apple up? Easy, show the effing audience what you're talking about!

Like I said, close your eyes and just LISTEN to an iPhone ad...yeah...get it now?

[BongoBanger]

The 'Get a Mac' ads were an undoubted success. I think they've run their course now though.

[*LTD*]

Again, if you read my list of other correlations you'd understand there are plenty of other "explanations" we can all jump to.

The point is, no matter how good they're doing they could be doing better.

Quantify this. Exactly how much more do you expect from Apple? Yes, we could ALL be doing better, but at some point you're going to get tangled up in an abusrd infinite-progression scenario.

34 billion in the bank (more cash on hand than MS.) Ownership of the Premium computer market. Recession-proof. Record quarters for 21 or 22 quarters out of 23 or so. Record Mac sales in a recession.

But they could be doing better??

Example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Phelps

Michael Phelps has won 14 career Olympic gold medals, the most by any Olympian. As of August 2, 2009, Phelps has broken thirty-seven world records in swimming.

Phelps holds the record for the most gold medals won in single Olympics, his eight at the 2008 Beijing Games surpassed American swimmer Mark Spitz's seven-gold performance at Munich in 1972.

But he could be doing better!

Now do you see how ridiculous that sounds??

If you don't really get marketing, that's fine, but don't bring absurdities into the argument just to deflect the issue.

Yes, you could jump to any number of conclusions, but given Apple's success since 2006, and given the fact that their Mac ads have been airing since then, and given the fact that the ads continue to air while Apple is posting record Mac sales, IN A RECESSION, quarter after quarter, there's a pretty good chance the ads play a role - in fact there's a pretty good chance that EVERYTHING Apple is doing, as part of a unified strategy, plays a role. You don't need to rub a whole lotta brain cells together to figure this one out.