Apple's graphics team to get boost....

[iGav]

For those that are interested here's a little snapshop from Design Weeks website regarding a new supa-duper graphics department within Apple........

N.B This is the entire article, the link requires you to register...... if you're a creative... it's worth while though.......

Industry sources suggest that Apple Computers is about to make an internal promotion to boost the profile of its graphics department. The move is intended to build on the success of Jonathan Ive in product design and will put graphics on a similar footing in terms of Apple's external branding.

Running the graphics department in the US, the person will take responsibility for packaging, brochures, on-product styling and exhibitions, as well as working with chief executive Steve Jobs' own presentations.

A senior external appointment to the role earlier this year is believed to have backfired when the candidate left the company within days of taking up the job.


or you can check it out at...

http://www.mad.co.uk/DW/home/stories/2002/08/01/0001.asp

[arn]

registration required...

arn

[DannyZR2]

grrrrr....

thanks for posting the text at least.

[iGav]

Originally posted by arn
registration required...

arn

Oop's Dizzy blonde moment..... I completely forgot you had to register to view some of the articles......... :( lucky I posted the article though........ :)

Any designers, or creatives out there, it's a worth while site registering with.... always some good stuff knocking around......... ;) :)

[Mr. Anderson]

viewgraph engineering for Steve? Now that's got to be something....

Actually, I'm looking forward to what they come up with - Apple has its own style of graphics - clean, slick, if somewhat sterile. I'd love to see something with more of an edge to go along with their computer designs.

D

[Beej]

I've always thought the quality of Apple's brocures, packaging etc was top-notch...

[Choppaface]

hmm maybe we'll get to see a new aqua then...

[Matthé]

does that mean that Steve's personal presentations will not look as horrible anymoreas they do now?
that dreadfull blue/purple/skewed powerpointish crud
maybe they'll actually start using their iApps themselves

[iGav]

Originally posted by Matthé
does that mean that Steve's personal presentations will not look as horrible anymoreas they do now?
that dreadfull blue/purple/skewed powerpointish crud
maybe they'll actually start using their iApps themselves

Heh heh.... that's exactly what I think everytime there's a keynote....... the desk on the stage with top notch powerMacs looks cool, the huge blazing glowing Apple logo's either side of the stage look cool.......

Then there's the Powerpoint presentation he uses....... :eek: :eek: :eek: that most definitely does not look cool...... :p

[moomin]

Whoever they get for that job, I'm sure they won't be happy branding everything in Myriad!!!

Dont want to sound like a type geek but it is so so plain

Apple Garamond please come back all is forgiven

[MikeH]

Running Steve Jobs graphic design dept. Hmm, that's either going to be heaven or hell.

I'm not sure I'd want Jobs as my boss, looking over my shoulder barking instructions as to how his PowerPoint presentation should look and throwing his dummy out the pram every couple of minutes.

Any idea what the pay is like though?

And if you think Steve's PPT presentations are bad you should see some of the horror stories I've come across.

[Matthé]

Job's powerpoints aren't bad bad, but they certainly aren't up to standards next to other apple designed hardware
but the again, os x is hideous too, well the icons are and the i-mac striping all over and the plastic buttons and ...
all not very form follows function unlike their exteriors

[G4scott]

Jobs can use the iPhoto screen saver with his presentation... Just think of those nice OpenGL fades...

Well, Apple already has a clean, polished look, but maybe something more, to boost the brand recognition (as if Apple wasn't one of the most recognized symbol... :cool: )

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by MikeH
Running Steve Jobs graphic design dept. Hmm, that's either going to be heaven or hell.

I imagine it would all depend on how much he wants to provide imput on the presentations or whether he's just happy to have someone to be able to read his mind and know what he wants.

That's how I feel here at my job sometimes. What you end up with, since I can't read minds, is an iterative process that becomes amazingly time consuming, going back and forth with changes. Its not fun.

And I don't see and real alternative right now except using powerpoint - unless they had more time and could set up templates and use Director - that would be cool, becuase you would have much better ability to incorporate multimedia - animating in powerpoint is painful. But the downside to Director is the amount of time it takes to put such a presentation together - and you'd need a plugin to view it. But for the big presentations, that's the way to go. You can have subtle animation/multi media that just comes across as fantastic and not go over the top, sort of like understated power.

D

[gandalf55]

macromedia flash mx :

- no plugin needed for standalone
- stream audio & video right in
- light-weight animations
- some templates already exist for presentations
- flash remoting
- a lot more

keep that one in mind :)

[cc bcc]

Originally posted by gandalf55
macromedia flash mx :

- no plugin needed for standalone
- stream audio & video right in
- light-weight animations
- some templates already exist for presentations
- flash remoting
- a lot more

keep that one in mind :)

Flash MX:

- bad anti-aliasing
- bad performance on powerpc, really really bad performance

[Matthé]

why is flash slower on Mac? I noticed it too but haven't got a clue as to why
the flash 6/mx browser plug-in seemed to speed things up though

[gandalf55]

you can control anti-aliasing if you'd like with a simple pixel font:

www.miniml.com

as for the speed - last rev of the flash player did get a speed boost for macs, however i have been told that the architecture of the g3 and g4 chips doesn't process vectors, etc. nearly as well as Intel, even with that Altivec stuff. Macs are fast at pshop type manips, but when it comes down to sheer horsepower of manipulating vector & bitmap data, its a lot slower. Macromedia does all they can with the size of the plugin (very small compared to director).

i would look at apple to get a really, really fast processor, and not just a processor that is fast @ certain things. i have an old NT (if I remember, somewhere around 500Mhz) that i test interactive with, and that **** box can outperform my g4 in many anims (that don't include openGL, etc). it's sad but true.

[iGav]

Originally posted by dukestreet


I imagine it would all depend on how much he wants to provide imput on the presentations or whether he's just happy to have someone to be able to read his mind and know what he wants.

That's how I feel here at my job sometimes. What you end up with, since I can't read minds, is an iterative process that becomes amazingly time consuming, going back and forth with changes. Its not fun.

And I don't see and real alternative right now except using powerpoint - unless they had more time and could set up templates and use Director - that would be cool, becuase you would have much better ability to incorporate multimedia - animating in powerpoint is painful. But the downside to Director is the amount of time it takes to put such a presentation together - and you'd need a plugin to view it. But for the big presentations, that's the way to go. You can have subtle animation/multi media that just comes across as fantastic and not go over the top, sort of like understated power.

D

Director doesn't require a Plug-in to view, that's Shockwave content for web..... a Projector file will run exactly like a conventional application........ and a DXR file is cross-platform, so you'd only need to compile the a PC exe to run it on Windows........ not the DXR file......

An experienced Director programmer user can almost match the productivity of someone using Powerpoint........ although I doubt this would be an issue for something as important as a major Expo Keynote presentation, the one's they currently use look like it took them an hour to knock up......

I've sat through some mind numbing Powerpoint presentations from clients, and watch fellow creative do CREATIVE pitches using a Powerpoint presentation.... suffice to say, they didn't get the jobs........Powerpoint really is for non-creative corporate companies to present to other corporate non-creative companies........
:p :p :p

[iGav]

Originally posted by gandalf55
you can control anti-aliasing if you'd like with a simple pixel font:

www.miniml.com

as for the speed - last rev of the flash player did get a speed boost for macs, however i have been told that the architecture of the g3 and g4 chips doesn't process vectors, etc. nearly as well as Intel, even with that Altivec stuff. Macs are fast at pshop type manips, but when it comes down to sheer horsepower of manipulating vector & bitmap data, its a lot slower. Macromedia does all they can with the size of the plugin (very small compared to director).

i would look at apple to get a really, really fast processor, and not just a processor that is fast @ certain things. i have an old NT (if I remember, somewhere around 500Mhz) that i test interactive with, and that **** box can outperform my g4 in many anims (that don't include openGL, etc). it's sad but true.

Plug-ins really are not an issue when using either Flash or Shockwave over the web..... and Director doesn't need a plug-in or a player to play on machine..... either Mac or PC.......

The speed and smoothness of an Director/Flash vector or bitmap animation, depends more on the skill of the developer, if you code it, as opposed to using timeline based animation, you'll notice a huge increase in playback performance.......

[julzmon]

I'm a flash designer and many other guys that I know have bailed ship. Flash on Mac is at a critical state I think. It is incredibly and embarrassedly slow. Try to view a high end Flash site on your Mac and then view it on a PC and be amazed on how smooth it all runs. The creation tool same thing. Flash MX is buggy and runs slow on OS X. Yes I do have to get a faster computer but I'm waiting for the second revision of the next generation of G4.
I think its both Apple's and Macromedia's fault. They need to do something ASAP!
Also notice how much faster Flash runs on Omniweb. I would use that browser all the time if they had support for the very basic elements of websites (like CSS support rollovers and iFrames)

I have not bailed ship yet but it has been tempting to just get some cheep PC so I can do my job at a normal pace and see what the animation looks like to the 90% of the people normally.

Frustrated,
Julz

[gandalf55]

The speed and smoothness of an Director/Flash vector or bitmap animation, depends more on the skill of the developer, if you code it, as opposed to using timeline based animation, you'll notice a huge increase in playback performance......

========================
that's not true. i code using mathematical tweening (easing equations), etc. all the time. the exact same movie plays faster on a pc than on a mac. even a single, normal tween test will run much faster on a pc. it has nothing to do with the skill of the developer there. find a movie that plays the same speed on a mac & a pc and then you'll have some ammo. macs generally run 10-15fps reliably in flash. a pc runs 15-24 fps. every fps counts.

with SWFXXl : http://www.swfxxl.com, flash can run BLAZING fast (well over 30fps, perhaps even close to 50) - using directX. but thats in a standalone app - and only on a PC. Check that out if you are on a PC and watch your jaw drop. A Flash movie playing low-quality at 320x240 can run full-screen without a hitch in fps. amazing.

[iGav]

Originally posted by julzmon

I have not bailed ship yet but it has been tempting to just get some cheep PC so I can do my job at a normal pace and see what the animation looks like to the 90% of the people normally.

Frustrated,
Julz

A PC is really need for any cross-platform development....... I'd go and get yourself one for checking any cross platform issues....... ;) :)

You can't develop websites just on a mac if you hope for it to be successful on a PC as well....... nothing too flash though..... you don't want to unecessarily waste your 'New Supa-Duper G4' fund....... :D


Anyway... back onto thread topic, it also says that the designer will be responsible for on product styling as well as Jobs' presentations......... so there's certainly alot of scope for the lucky person whoever gets this role.......

[iGav]

Originally posted by gandalf55
The speed and smoothness of an Director/Flash vector or bitmap animation, depends more on the skill of the developer, if you code it, as opposed to using timeline based animation, you'll notice a huge increase in playback performance......

========================
that's not true. i code using mathematical tweening (easing equations), etc. all the time. the exact same movie plays faster on a pc than on a mac. even a single, normal tween test will run much faster on a pc. it has nothing to do with the skill of the developer there. find a movie that plays the same speed on a mac & a pc and then you'll have some ammo. macs generally run 10-15fps reliably in flash. a pc runs 15-24 fps. every fps counts.

with SWFXXl : http://www.swfxxl.com, flash can run BLAZING fast (well over 30fps, perhaps even close to 50) - using directX. but thats in a standalone app - and only on a PC. Check that out if you are on a PC and watch your jaw drop. A Flash movie playing low-quality at 320x240 can run full-screen without a hitch in fps. amazing.

I stand completely by my statement...... a coded animation will run better than a timeline based version........... can you point out what wasn't true in my statement???

[gandalf55]

generally speaking, a coded animation should run faster than a time-based animation. often times it does. but all of it is tied to fps. whether its time-based or not.

however, my point is this:

pcs play flash content at a much higher fps than the exact same flash content on a mac. it's a simple reality. you can be the steve wozniak of flash (very tight routines, optimal btye-code usage), and you will not be able to code something with ActionScript to run faster or just as fast on a Mac as on a PC.

[gandalf55]

plugin architecture has something to do with this as well. how the plugin works with the browser. hence Omniweb plays a little faster.

Microsoft could be to blame here, for their IE browser for Mac doesn't have the plugin architecture to blaze flash content. go figure - they want you to use a PC ;)

also, the Altivec units on a Mac I heard are not optimal.

Many factors in this, but truth be told, macs != pcs in the speed dept for flash playback.

*STILL better than powerpoint though. powerpoint is mankind's bane.

[bousozoku]

Originally posted by julzmon
I'm a flash designer and many other guys that I know have bailed ship. Flash on Mac is at a critical state I think. It is incredibly and embarrassedly slow. Try to view a high end Flash site on your Mac and then view it on a PC and be amazed on how smooth it all runs. The creation tool same thing. Flash MX is buggy and runs slow on OS X. Yes I do have to get a faster computer but I'm waiting for the second revision of the next generation of G4.
I think its both Apple's and Macromedia's fault. They need to do something ASAP!
Also notice how much faster Flash runs on Omniweb. I would use that browser all the time if they had support for the very basic elements of websites (like CSS support rollovers and iFrames)

I have not bailed ship yet but it has been tempting to just get some cheep PC so I can do my job at a normal pace and see what the animation looks like to the 90% of the people normally.

Frustrated,
Julz

I think you've just hit upon something talking about OmniWeb. Since there's no Carbon in OmniWeb and it's all over the place in Flash, that's probably the culprit. You should expect to see great things out of Flash and Jaguar together.

[Fukui]

The problem with flash is two fold, and doesn't just affect speed problems in flash.

1) Compilers for PPC, specifically GCC is not as tight as the ones for X86.

2) Performance optimization techniques in coding are probably more geared toward X86, as most PC users use that chip...

Apple needs to get behind GCC and push IBM or MOTO to do better compiler work on GCC etc...

[Foocha]

er... Altivec is great for handling vectors - that's what it's there for! I doubt that Flash has been written to fully exploit its potential on the Mac. There's just not enough in it for Macromedia to do a good job of a Flash plugin for Mac. The PC version is much, much faster. No doubt. But that's an issue with Macromedia rather than Mac hardware, I suspect.

[Choppaface]

Originally posted by iGAV


I stand completely by my statement...... a coded animation will run better than a timeline based version........... can you point out what wasn't true in my statement???

why don't you just show us then? make a full screen gradient flyby using the timeline, then code your own, code the tween, and keep a note of their total play times and fps for each, and post the movies.

my experience has been that machines have even more trouble doing actionscript than animation, especially with more demanding scripts. I could usually get very similar quality animation on my G3 and G4, yet the G3 was very noticeably slower running some scripts that did heavy sorting and lots of sting comparisons....

[w2lucas]

Working for Apple/Steve Jobs is fun because you get to see the new stuff before the general public and, to a certain extent, rumor sites. Working for Apple/Steve Jobs is stressful because you're working for Apple/Steve Jobs.

Flash MX is slow on a Mac because MM has been working with their partner, Intel, to optmized the MX line for Pentium 4 processors. I am quiet dissapointed with the decision as it effectively cripple a demographic that was instrumental in the rise of Macromedia. If anyone here works for MM . . . let this travel back to 600 Townsend and that new building on De Haro.

[iGav]

Originally posted by Choppaface

why don't you just show us then? make a full screen gradient flyby using the timeline, then code your own, code the tween, and keep a note of their total play times and fps for each, and post the movies.

my experience has been that machines have even more trouble doing actionscript than animation, especially with more demanding scripts. I could usually get very similar quality animation on my G3 and G4, yet the G3 was very noticeably slower running some scripts that did heavy sorting and lots of sting comparisons....

Well it depends on the efficiency of your code..... if it's inefficient then obviously performance will be affected...... not to suggest that your Actionscripting is bad or anything you understand.......

In my experience of programming in both Lingo and Actionscript, a well coded project whether it be for web or disc based deployment will be (much, much) leaner on file size than an equivialent timeline base animation, and I'm talking about a project alittle larger than just doing a simple tweened animation and a gradient change, the file size will become more pronounced the greater the complexity of the project.......

And no.... I'm not going to prove myself :rolleyes:

[benjaminpg]

I saw the new iMac and iPod pamphlets today. They're much different than the old ones. the most notable difference is that they are a much different format. First of all they are constructed as a booklet, versus the old ones which were constructed like a brochure. I think there are four pages, front and back. In addition they use the new font apple is starting to use; i forgot it's name. They are also slightly larger than the old ones. All in all they seem nicer. I wonder if this new position has already been filled. They do not, however use aqua, as somebody suggested they might, which is a good thing.

[iGav]

Originally posted by benjaminpg
I saw the new iMac and iPod pamphlets today. They're much different than the old ones. the most notable difference is that they are a much different format. First of all they are constructed as a booklet, versus the old ones which were constructed like a brochure. I think there are four pages, front and back. In addition they use the new font apple is starting to use; i forgot it's name. They are also slightly larger than the old ones. All in all they seem nicer. I wonder if this new position has already been filled. They do not, however use aqua, as somebody suggested they might, which is a good thing.

Sounds cool....... Apple seem to be on a very mild design overhaul at the moment, especially the website, what with reducing the amounts of Aqua and seemingly going with a super minimal ice'd look that I really like........

I have no idea if the position has been filled at Apple, although I would have thought that it probably has been....... maybe we might notice a big change in Steve's keynotes from now on......

Apple have always had a very strong design identity, arguably more so than any other company Sony included....... so I can't wait to see how Apple's graphic design evolves over the coming year.........

Hopefully the profile of their graphics department will get similar respect in the design community as their industrial product design department currently commands.......

[gandalf55]

again, speed? blame Microsoft's IE. Blame Apple's buggy pseudo-Altivec. Apple procs dont have the ability to process the same kind of data @ the same speeds that PCs do. trust me, i wish this wasn't the case. this isn't a new issue and MM has done A LOT to support mac users. they can't however make Microsoft better ensure optimal plugin support on a mac. they also can't dictate to Moto and IBM how to make their procs. they worked their ass off to get the speeds we have now.

i'm loyal as anyone. but this isn't macromedia's fault. it has to do with a few outside factors. maybe the g5 or the 64b g4 will have some improvements. but again, IE itself doesnt have the best plugin support for macs.

[mmmdreg]

Originally posted by Beej
I've always thought the quality of Apple's brocures, packaging etc was top-notch...

Apple were sending OSX brochures (booklet thingo) around here (Sydney) once and we got two in two weeks...and the second time, the outside cover was completely upside down which sort of stuffed the whole thing but anyway...at least the design was unique :)

[gandalf55]

i was in a supermarket - and they were giving away AOL CDs with 1025 hours free, etc. Get this, the packaging is all photographic leopard spots - and the CD itself 1/2 printed with leopard spots. it looks SO MUCH LIKE the jaguar branding Apple had come up with. Same idea. I mean, AOL didn't even have verbage anywhere explaining why the leopard spot treatment... of course, they could have just printed this on the back, in the fine print:

"We saw Apple do this and we thought it was cool, so we did it too."

BTW - saw the eMac @ the apple store (northshore mall) in boston... pretty ugly :) but i guess its fine for kids & seeing those in public libraries would be better than a row of peecees.