Java 1.4.2 Update 2 Now Available

[MacRumors]

Now available via Software Update:
Java 1.4.2 Update 2 provides improved behavior for applets in Safari and increased stability for desktop Java applications. Java 1.4.2 Update 2 also includes all the improvements from Java 1.4.2 Update 1.

The system will be updated to Java 1.4.2 Update 2. If the system currently has Java 1.4.1, it will be removed. Any previous Java 1.4.2 installation will be completely replaced.

For more details on this update, please visit: http://www.apple.com/java/

This is part 2 of the Java 1.4.2 Update 1 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/08/20040810190922.shtml) that was released August 10th.

[munkle]

Man that's a pretty hefty update - all 26.4 MB of it!

[JohnGalt]

Now available via Software Update:


This is part 2 of the Java 1.4.2 Update 1 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/08/20040810190922.shtml) that was released August 10th.



I've d/l'd and rebooted. All is well so far.

[PlaceofDis]

i was wondering when the Second Update would be coming along, i guess i will be courageous and dl it....

[Stella]

I hope this release improves the performance over the previous 1.4.2 update.

The original 1.4.2 was fine on my iBook, but the 1.4.2 release a few weeks ago absolutely killed my iBook - Java applications became incredibly sluggish.

[mrzippy]

Does not show up here.

Maybe because I installed the public beta on the developer site, maybe this version is the same.

[impierced]

Does not show up here.

Maybe because I installed the public beta on the developer site, maybe this version is the same.

Developer site and public beta typically do not go hand in hand. Also, installing beta software on a computer and thinking that an actual release will simply overwrite it is somewhat foolhardy.

[tliptak]

downloaded and installed. no problems so far

[AliensAreFuzzy]

Good good. Always nice to get more improvments

[yoda13]

I hope this is the last of the lengthy downloads for a while as I am still stuck on dial-up, at least for another week, until they are done testing the new broadband here in the sticks. Oh well, I will download tonight.

[keysersoze]

Good good. Always nice to get more improvments

Why not 1.4.3?

Why this new "Update #" scheme?

I need a beer.

[mrzippy]

Developer site and public beta typically do not go hand in hand. Also, installing beta software on a computer and thinking that an actual release will simply overwrite it is somewhat foolhardy.

I never said I installed the beta thinking it was an actual release.

I said I think the beta I download (think it was the Final Candidate actually) was the version actually released.

Software updated looks in /library/receipts for version information, therefore it must think I have latest version.

As for the second part, the install clearly states the previous version will be overwritten.

[James Craner]

Installed on a 1.5GHz Powerbook and a Dual 1 GHz Powermac, everything appears to be OK. Can't notice any changes.

[Stella]

Why not 1.4.3?

Why this new "Update #" scheme?

I need a beer.
Because its an update to 1.4.2, there is no Java 1.4.3, only Java 1.4.2 and soon to be coming 1.5.. although Macs won't get that until 6 months after 1.5 gets released on the various *nixes and other minor OSes....

[t300]

Dang....Everytime I see there is an update, I pray that it is that iPod mini one talked about a few weeks ago...

[live4ever]

Have been waiting for this update, I didn't install Update 1 before.

[swissmann]

Installed it this morning on my new iMac G5 before I knew it was a new update. So far so good.

[stevehaslip]

i'm gonna hold off a day or two before installing this, i knows its only java but i've been bitten by one of the recent updates and can't afford any downtime at the moment. In a few days i have to go without the internet for nearly 2 weeks!!!! HARSH!! i'm gonna have withdraw symptoms!!! :(

[macridah]

Because its an update to 1.4.2, there is no Java 1.4.3, only Java 1.4.2 and soon to be coming 1.5.. although Macs won't get that until 6 months after 1.5 gets released on the various *nixes and other minor OSes....

yup ... java 1.5 is already in Release Candidate for windows and linux.

[nQuery]

I work in a java development environment all day long and also use some heavy applets that are much speedier and useable under this update (using safari). i had one java applet messaging client that crashed with update 1 (and didn't work at all with 1.4.2 vanilla) ... it works like a charm now.

so far so good ...

[wrldwzrd89]

Because its an update to 1.4.2, there is no Java 1.4.3, only Java 1.4.2 and soon to be coming 1.5.. although Macs won't get that until 6 months after 1.5 gets released on the various *nixes and other minor OSes....
I wouldn't be surprised if Mac OS X gets Java 1.5 upon the release of Tiger or shortly thereafter. The way Apple's been going with Java updates, that's the way it looks to me.

[Porchland]

Dang....Everytime I see there is an update, I pray that it is that iPod mini one talked about a few weeks ago...

I'm a little surprised that there hans't been an iPod/iTunes update of some sort that knocks Real out of the game. I figured Apple would encourage it with some sort of new feature; but with iLife 5 only (probably) four months away, maybe they're waiting to push out a whole-number upgrade.

[wrldwzrd89]

I'm a little surprised that there hans't been an iPod/iTunes update of some sort that knocks Real out of the game. I figured Apple would encourage it with some sort of new feature; but with iLife 5 only (probably) four months away, maybe they're waiting to push out a whole-number upgrade.
My guess is that Apple's holding off on iTunes updates to release iTunes 5 along with Tiger. Anyway, back on topic...I can't install the update just yet because I'm on a PC right now. As soon as I get back home I'll install it.

[bousozoku]

Because its an update to 1.4.2, there is no Java 1.4.3, only Java 1.4.2 and soon to be coming 1.5.. although Macs won't get that until 6 months after 1.5 gets released on the various *nixes and other minor OSes....

I'm wondering if there is an actual change to the version as far as Java itself is concerned. 10.3.5 brought 1.4.2_03 and update 1 brought 1.4.2_05. Update 2 is probably just bug fixes but hopefully, there is something more.

[broken_keyboard]

There is a Java 1.5 beta for Tiger. Apple is pretty good at keeping up with the Java versions...

[wrldwzrd89]

There is a Java 1.5 beta for Tiger. Apple is pretty good at keeping up with the Java versions...
Just as I thought...Java 1.5 WILL appear when Tiger is released.

[t300]

Just as I thought...Java 1.5 WILL appear when Tiger is released.

I was just getting ready to bring this point up...

Java doesn't really excite me, but I know for you webmaster and such, it does. Good update.

[Dave_B]

There is a Java 1.5 beta for Tiger. Apple is pretty good at keeping up with the Java versions...

Nooooo, Apple is very, very bad "at keeping up with the Java versions"

[NB - that's 'bad' as in 'not good in any way shape or form']

[Stella]

There is a Java 1.5 beta for Tiger. Apple is pretty good at keeping up with the Java versions...

Pretty good? Poor more like - it was ages until Apple released Java 1.4 and the same goes for Java 1.4.2.. we had to wait much longer than other OSes did.

Perhaps Apple can redeem themselves with Java 1.5

[broken_keyboard]

I was just getting ready to bring this point up...

Java doesn't really excite me, but I know for you webmaster and such, it does. Good update.

It's pretty important for selling Xserves I would imagine...

[t300]

It's pretty important for selling Xserves I would imagine...

Yes...hence the "and such."

[oya]

i'm gonna hold off a day or two before installing this, i knows its only java but i've been bitten by one of the recent updates and can't afford any downtime at the moment. In a few days i have to go without the internet for nearly 2 weeks!!!! HARSH!! i'm gonna have withdraw symptoms!!! :(

You'd better check this out:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/23/internet_junkies/

[Sabbath]

Dang....Everytime I see there is an update, I pray that it is that iPod mini one talked about a few weeks ago...

I've been waiting for that one too, and judging by how long it has been since the rumor I'm not sure we will see it. You would think there would be a mini update on or before MWSF '05 (just judging by the general scheme of iPod updates) and I guess they will probably keep any update exclusive to new minis as a selling point.

[wrldwzrd89]

I have returned to my Mac - downloading and installing the update now...

[t300]

I have returned to my Mac - downloading and installing the update now...

Be sure to give us the update...

[wrldwzrd89]

Be sure to give us the update...
Here's a test page (http://java.sun.com/openstudio/index.html) to try out your Java update. Mine works just fine.

[Makosuke]

This question is getting old, but does this one fix the freezes and kernel panics that heavy Java networking (ie Azureus and kin) causes?

I keep hoping, and "application stability" sounds good, but I'm not holding my breath.

Even if it's not a really common problem, you'd think a fully repeatable crashing bug would be something Apple would work a bit harder at getting fixed.

[bousozoku]

Pretty good? Poor more like - it was ages until Apple released Java 1.4 and the same goes for Java 1.4.2.. we had to wait much longer than other OSes did.

Perhaps Apple can redeem themselves with Java 1.5

It took longer for version 1.4 because they re-wrote the JVM from the ground up to be more easily upgraded with Sun's releases. They have indeed proven themselves with quicker updates, even though the Java headlines almost always focus on x86.

We have to wait for Java releases for two reasons: Sun doesn't want to devote resources to Mac OS X (they have to have constantly fix the Solaris version) and Apple doesn't want to be open about certain information.

[Macaddicttt]

Installed, rebooted, no problems. You know, I always find it funny when people are so cautious to install updates. I know there have been a few bad ones, but those usually get pulled right after they are put up. I say wait a few hours, say 6-8, and then download. You shouldn't have any problems.

I think I just opened up the floodgates for stories about updates gone wrong...

[g4cubed]

Just got done with no problems. :D
Everyone is complaining about the last update being bad but it didn't take that long to get the fix fixed.. :p

[TranceClubMusic]

Still NOT up to par as the Windows Version.
Yahoo Java Chat rooms STILL DO NOT WORK!!!!
Very very sad.

http://chat.yahoo.com/ :mad:

[bousozoku]

Still NOT up to par as the Windows Version.
Yahoo Java Chat rooms STILL DO NOT WORK!!!!
Very very sad.

http://chat.yahoo.com/ :mad:

Worked fine for me with Firefox. If you give some information, maybe you might get some help.

[phasornc]

Nooooo, Apple is very, very bad "at keeping up with the Java versions"

[NB - that's 'bad' as in 'not good in any way shape or form']

Here, here. It looks like apple is trying to obsolete themselve in schools. Many university computer science programming courses use Java now, and many professors like to include Java 1.5 material. It makes sense that students today can study the platform of they'll be using when they graduate. However, if Apple waits till Tiger is released next summer for Java 1.5, I'm going to have to sell my PowerBook just so I can take the class I want to take next semester which will require on Java 1.5.

Either that or I'll have to put Debian or Mandrake on my PowerBook, which really defeats the purpose of having a powerbook. Heck can Java 1.5 even run on Linux/PPC? Anyone know?

[mowogg]

Still NOT up to par as the Windows Version.
Yahoo Java Chat rooms STILL DO NOT WORK!!!!
Very very sad.

http://chat.yahoo.com/ :mad:

Works fine for me in Safari. Pretty cool in fact.

[bousozoku]

Here, here. It looks like apple is trying to obsolete themselve in schools. Many university computer science programming courses use Java now, and many professors like to include Java 1.5 material. It makes sense that students today can study the platform of they'll be using when they graduate. However, if Apple waits till Tiger is released next summer for Java 1.5, I'm going to have to sell my PowerBook just so I can take the class I want to take next semester which will require on Java 1.5.

Either that or I'll have to put Debian or Mandrake on my PowerBook, which really defeats the purpose of having a powerbook. Heck can Java 1.5 even run on Linux/PPC? Anyone know?

How many are many? I think you overestimate the proliferation of something that's only at release candidate status right now. If instructors are using JDK/JVM version 1.5 as a live release right now, they're further away from reality than they should be. There is no way to guarantee the output from a beta release and it certainly should not be used for instructional use.

[phasornc]

How many are many? I think you overestimate the proliferation of something that's only at release candidate status right now. If instructors are using JDK/JVM version 1.5 as a live release right now, they're further away from reality than they should be. There is no way to guarantee the output from a beta release and it certainly should not be used for instructional use.

On the contrary, the new features of Java 1.5 have been finalized for quite a while. Schools are the perfect place to test new releases, since the consequences of bugs are very small. The main advantage is that students can be trained on cutting edge features, many of which will be considered mainstream by the time they enter the job market. I mean why did MS release beta's of the .Net platform way ahead of it's release? To get developers using it. It's just a shame that Apple has no (legitimate) way for student developers to use Java 1.5.

[Porchland]

Just as I thought...Java 1.5 WILL appear when Tiger is released.

Has anyone seen anything to indicate whether Safari 2.0 will be a free upgrade for Panther or a Tiger-only application? Java 1.5 would be nice to have even without upgrading to Tiger. (My guess is that it will be Tiger-only.)

[JDOG_]

Yay, wish I had had some java in my 9am class today!

Installed & rebooted without a problem & noticed my Fotki.com photo upload applet was a bit snappier than usual. Way to go lab guys!

[bousozoku]

On the contrary, the new features of Java 1.5 have been finalized for quite a while. Schools are the perfect place to test new releases, since the consequences of bugs are very small. The main advantage is that students can be trained on cutting edge features, many of which will be considered mainstream by the time they enter the job market. I mean why did MS release beta's of the .Net platform way ahead of it's release? To get developers using it. It's just a shame that Apple has no (legitimate) way for student developers to use Java 1.5.

The features have been finalised but the bugs have not been, and won't be for quite a while, even after the final release.

The consequences of bugs are very small? You've been in development how long? Can you say lost space probes and exploding rockets? They could be less significant at a school but not insignificant. If your application doesn't work properly even though the code is fine, what grade do you get?

[termite]

Safari no longer crashes for me when I visit Intellicast. When Ivan was headed to New Orleans last week I kept having to fire up Firefox just to visit this one web site. Intellicast was crashing Safarai for me every time until today.

And even before today, I was suspecting it was either Java or Flash since the site would start to work, but only after Safari started firing up some dorky Ads (flash) and Apps (Java) would the crash occur.

[tex210]

http://www.tvguide.com/listings/

click on a program for a description, and I would just get rolling arrows...
have had to use the excite guide for now... poor me. :mad:
actually, just checked, and the description loaded once but didn't update for any other shows picked...
Anyone updated willing to check?

[ssamani]

Why not 1.4.3?

Why this new "Update #" scheme?


I wasn't convinced that some of the responses were particularly helpful. The Java Version number is driven by the language itself and set by Sun. So that in theory Java 1.4.2 on Mac OS X should be consistent with Java 1.4.2 on Windows, Solaris and Linux. The 1.4.2 represents which specification of the Java language is being used. "Language" in the broadest sense as it also implies a number of libraries and frameworks are included and the version denotes what features those libraries and frameworks should have across all platforms.

Update 1 and 2 are fixes / performance improvements Apple have made to their own implementation of the Java 1.4.2 specification. They avoided calling them 1.4.2.1 and 1.4.2.2 to presumably avoid the suggestion that there were change of language specification from Sun and make clear that it was a purely Apple implementation change, rather than a Java language definition change.

Hope this is a tad more helpful than "Q: Why is it not 1.4.3? A: Because there is no 1.4.3".

Sanj

[wrldwzrd89]

I wasn't convinced that some of the responses were particularly helpful. The Java Version number is driven by the language itself and set by Sun. So that in theory Java 1.4.2 on Mac OS X should be consistent with Java 1.4.2 on Windows, Solaris and Linux. The 1.4.2 represents which specification of the Java language is being used. "Language" in the broadest sense as it also implies a number of libraries and frameworks are included and the version denotes what features those libraries and frameworks should have across all platforms.

Update 1 and 2 are fixes / performance improvements Apple have made to their own implementation of the Java 1.4.2 specification. They avoided calling them 1.4.2.1 and 1.4.2.2 to presumably avoid the suggestion that there were change of language specification from Sun and make clear that it was a purely Apple implementation change, rather than a Java language definition change.

Hope this is a tad more helpful than "Q: Why is it not 1.4.3? A: Because there is no 1.4.3".

Sanj
Also, Update 1 and 2 were used because Apple probably doesn't like the Sun way for numbering updates to Java: i.e. first Java 1.4.2, then Java 1.4.2_01 (the first update), then Java 1.4.2_0X (the xth update), then Java 1.X.0 (the next major release).

[theadz01]

well i have just installed this update :mad:

Safari now won't open, Activity Monitor just bounces up and down and i can't get Disk Utility to open either :mad:

any ideas?

[wrldwzrd89]

well i have just installed this update :mad:

Safari now won't open, Activity Monitor just bounces up and down and i can't get Disk Utility to open either :mad:

any ideas?
Activity Monitor and Disk Utility shouldn't have been affected by an update to Java, since they don't use it (at least as far as I know). Usually, these sorts of problems are caused either by corrupt preferences, corrupt caches, or both.

[theadz01]

i know - just they all worked fine until i installed this update.

I downloaded the java file off the apple website, but not even the installer file will open. Something is seriously corrupt - and i have no idea? Am i going to have to reinstall OS X? I don't want to! :mad:

[wrldwzrd89]

i know - just they all worked fine until i installed this update.

I downloaded the java file off the apple website, but not even the installer file will open. Something is seriously corrupt - and i have no idea? Am i going to have to reinstall OS X? I don't want to! :mad:
You might want to start a thread on this in Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther) Discussion so others will see it, especially people like me who only check the MacRumors.com news and discussion forum for new articles.

[furry]

why does java update have to cost $129
so to get 1.5 will have to shell out too?

i guess, programers have to eat too. :rolleyes:

[shawnce]

I'm wondering if there is an actual change to the version as far as Java itself is concerned. 10.3.5 brought 1.4.2_03 and update 1 brought 1.4.2_05. Update 2 is probably just bug fixes but hopefully, there is something more.

Before upgrading from 1.4.2 Update 1 the build was "1.4.2_05-141"

After upgrading...
[G5:~] shawnce% java -version
java version "1.4.2_05"
Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.4.2_05-141.3)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.4.2-38, mixed mode)

1.4.2_05 is the latest 1.4.2 release of Java from Sun.

[Booga]

The release notes for Update 2 are here:
http://developer.apple.com/releasenotes/Java/Java142RNUpdate2/index.html
seems like a pretty minor release.

All the bugs in Puzzle Pirates (http://www.puzzlepirates.com) still seem to be there, although the game is still playable.

[stoid]

Just to add to the Java university discussion. I'm an Interactive Digital Media major concentrating in Computer Science, and have used Java all last year, and I think that it is the main development environment until we use COBOL and whatnot a few classes down the path from where I am. We use Java 1.4.2 and it serves our purpose very well. While it is important for students to remain on the cutting edge, computers are developing so fast that it's practically impossible. As long as Java 1.5 doesn't have any inconsistencies that would not allow it to run code from a 1.4.2 program, I think that it is perfectly acceptable for a university to instruct in something a little shy of cutting edge. The version differences have to be weighed with how different it's going to be anyway when you graduate.

[QFace]

The software update application failed to install the update for me... it couldn't expand and verify it (and I made sure my anti-virus software was disabled). I had to manually download and install it to make it work. Weird.

[spud]

i guess, programers have to eat too. :rolleyes:


i thought they fixed that problem...

[Ryan256]

This is the first time I've had trouble with an update. It installed fine on my 1 Ghz 12" PB, but on my dual 1.8 G5 it reset my screen resolution after the initial restart. So I reset it, thinking everything else was normal. But now Safari is extremely buggy--I had to do force a restart by holding the power button for the first time since I've had this machine. Plus, the scroll bars in Safari are the wrong size or simply not moving when I click and drag. I'm no programmer, but to me this screams a problem with java. But the strangest thing yet since installing this update--I went to play UT 2004 and my preferences had been changed! (absolutely not caused by anything else) WTF?
<P>
I can only think of one thing that may have caused this strange reaction to the update--when I first got my G5, I transferred all my old files and settings from my 12" powerbook (running the same version of panther). It worked slick, except for two things: (1) Norton Antivirus was acting goofy, but that was fixed with an uninstall/reinstall, and (2) I have a battery icon in my menu bar of my G5! Does anybody know how to get rid of this?? And are there any other settings that could have been inadvertantly screwed with by doing a transfer from a laptop to a desktop?
<P>
To my knowledge, the " Applications > Utilities > Setup Assistant > Transfer From Another Mac " trick worked great for everything except the Norton Antivirus, battery icon, and possibly a strange reaction to this most recent java update.
<P>
So, can anybody answer how to get rid of the battery icon, and if anything else got messed up??? Thanks!


*** http://folding.stanford.edu *** Team 3446 ***

[sethypoo]

I'm wondering if there is an actual change to the version as far as Java itself is concerned. 10.3.5 brought 1.4.2_03 and update 1 brought 1.4.2_05. Update 2 is probably just bug fixes but hopefully, there is something more.

I hope so too.

Downloaded on a 12" PB G4 Rev. A. No problems so far.

[wrldwzrd89]

I'm wondering if there is an actual change to the version as far as Java itself is concerned. 10.3.5 brought 1.4.2_03 and update 1 brought 1.4.2_05. Update 2 is probably just bug fixes but hopefully, there is something more.
Looks to me like just bug fixes specific to Mac OS X. Look here (http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/download.html), and you'll see that we're still at 1.4.2_05 (like we were when Java 1.4.2 Update 1 was released).

[reorx]

Here, here. It looks like apple is trying to obsolete themselve in schools. Many university computer science programming courses use Java now, and many professors like to include Java 1.5 material. It makes sense that students today can study the platform of they'll be using when they graduate. However, if Apple waits till Tiger is released next summer for Java 1.5, I'm going to have to sell my PowerBook just so I can take the class I want to take next semester which will require on Java 1.5.

Either that or I'll have to put Debian or Mandrake on my PowerBook, which really defeats the purpose of having a powerbook. Heck can Java 1.5 even run on Linux/PPC? Anyone know?

Its all fine and great that people are using Java 1.5 features in schools, but most of the *real* app servers out there are no where near willing to use such unproven code in a production environment... Hell, WebSphere 5.0.x is still using Java 1.3.x. Students will quickly learn that the "bleeding edge" of software tools is not where they'll be spending their time once they get out into the real world.

[wrldwzrd89]

Its all fine and great that people are using Java 1.5 features in schools, but most of the *real* app servers out there are no where near willing to use such unproven code in a production environment... Hell, WebSphere 5.0.x is still using Java 1.3.x. Students will quickly learn that the "bleeding edge" of software tools is not where they'll be spending their time once they get out into the real world.
I agree. Nobody in their right mind would require a pre-release of Java 1.5 to do work (schools included). Even after Java 1.5 leaves pre-release status and enters full release, it makes sense to wait until the new version is established and available for platforms other than Windows before making it mainstream.

[titaniumducky]

This is the first time I've had trouble with an update. It installed fine on my 1 Ghz 12" PB, but on my dual 1.8 G5 it reset my screen resolution after the initial restart. So I reset it, thinking everything else was normal. But now Safari is extremely buggy--I had to do force a restart by holding the power button for the first time since I've had this machine. Plus, the scroll bars in Safari are the wrong size or simply not moving when I click and drag. I'm no programmer, but to me this screams a problem with java. But the strangest thing yet since installing this update--I went to play UT 2004 and my preferences had been changed! (absolutely not caused by anything else) WTF?
<P>
I can only think of one thing that may have caused this strange reaction to the update--when I first got my G5, I transferred all my old files and settings from my 12" powerbook (running the same version of panther). It worked slick, except for two things: (1) Norton Antivirus was acting goofy, but that was fixed with an uninstall/reinstall, and (2) I have a battery icon in my menu bar of my G5! Does anybody know how to get rid of this?? And are there any other settings that could have been inadvertantly screwed with by doing a transfer from a laptop to a desktop?
<P>
To my knowledge, the " Applications > Utilities > Setup Assistant > Transfer From Another Mac " trick worked great for everything except the Norton Antivirus, battery icon, and possibly a strange reaction to this most recent java update.
<P>
So, can anybody answer how to get rid of the battery icon, and if anything else got messed up??? Thanks!


*** http://folding.stanford.edu *** Team 3446 ***

You can remove the battery icon by holding 'Command' (The Apple button) and then drag the icon from the menubar. That's it!

[Marble]

My introductory course to Java development at an institution with 40,000 enrolled students teaches using the Java 1.5 specifications. I don't know why at this level backwards-compatibility would ever be a problem anyway, but it's definitely not just a few little schools that are doing it.

[wrldwzrd89]

My introductory course to Java development at an institution with 40,000 enrolled students teaches using the Java 1.5 specifications. I don't know why at this level backwards-compatibility would ever be a problem anyway, but it's definitely not just a few little schools that are doing it.
They shouldn't be requiring/using Java 1.5 now - it's dangerous to depend on a pre-release. It's perfectly okay to teach what's coming in Java 1.5, but it's not okay to require students to program in it until it gets established.

[bryanc]

There is one popular website (http://bioinformatics.org/sms2/) in particular that I'd like to use from within Safari, but it requires java 1.5. Aparently many people already have 1.5 on their Windows or Linux machines. Is there any way I can get 1.5 functionality within Safari?

[wrldwzrd89]

There is one popular website (http://bioinformatics.org/sms2/) in particular that I'd like to use from within Safari, but it requires java 1.5. Aparently many people already have 1.5 on their Windows or Linux machines. Is there any way I can get 1.5 functionality within Safari?
That's stupid IMO - they shouldn't be using Java 1.5 now!!!!!
To answer your second question, no - not until Apple releases Java 1.5 for Mac OS X.

[broken_keyboard]

There is one popular website (http://bioinformatics.org/sms2/) in particular that I'd like to use from within Safari, but it requires java 1.5. Aparently many people already have 1.5 on their Windows or Linux machines. Is there any way I can get 1.5 functionality within Safari?

It says JavaScript 1.5 - it's a different thing...

[broken_keyboard]

They shouldn't be requiring/using Java 1.5 now - it's dangerous to depend on a pre-release. It's perfectly okay to teach what's coming in Java 1.5, but it's not okay to require students to program in it until it gets established.

I agree. Also when these young developers get out in to the corporate world they are going to be maintaining code bases that go (in some cases I know of) all the way back to 1.1. So by all means teach 1.5 but teach the old stuff too.

[frankly]

Because its an update to 1.4.2, there is no Java 1.4.3, only Java 1.4.2 and soon to be coming 1.5.. although Macs won't get that until 6 months after 1.5 gets released on the various *nixes and other minor OSes....

Actually, the next version is 5.0 (not 1.5). Sun has decided to change their naming scheme, finally. It was weird calling it Java 2 version 1.4.2, etc.

Later, Frank

[frankly]

Here, here. It looks like apple is trying to obsolete themselve in schools. Many university computer science programming courses use Java now, and many professors like to include Java 1.5 material. It makes sense that students today can study the platform of they'll be using when they graduate. However, if Apple waits till Tiger is released next summer for Java 1.5, I'm going to have to sell my PowerBook just so I can take the class I want to take next semester which will require on Java 1.5.

Either that or I'll have to put Debian or Mandrake on my PowerBook, which really defeats the purpose of having a powerbook. Heck can Java 1.5 even run on Linux/PPC? Anyone know?

If it is just certain library items that you need you could download the 1.5 source and try manually adding the classes you need to a specific project. It could turn out to be a really good learning experience for you. This will depend on which parts of the language you need.

Frank

[frankly]

http://www.tvguide.com/listings/

click on a program for a description, and I would just get rolling arrows...
have had to use the excite guide for now... poor me. :mad:
actually, just checked, and the description loaded once but didn't update for any other shows picked...
Anyone updated willing to check?


Ummmm, that is done using Flash, not Java. And I don't have any problem with it working in Safari on my machine.

Frank

[iGreg]

This update has damaged my Safari. I now get a lot more sites that require more than one attempt to load it :mad:

[bousozoku]

My introductory course to Java development at an institution with 40,000 enrolled students teaches using the Java 1.5 specifications. I don't know why at this level backwards-compatibility would ever be a problem anyway, but it's definitely not just a few little schools that are doing it.

Okay, so there is one big school doing it too. The department head has probably never worked in the real world and has no clue that you're going to have to re-learn many things before you start working some place outside of the school. Otherwise, you'll be singing "but it's available in" along with "we didn't learn to do work with that" with some choruses of "this place is so backward". ;)

[mgh02114]

http://www.tvguide.com/listings/

click on a program for a description, and I would just get rolling arrows...


That site works perfectly for me without the update (Mac OS 10.3.5, up to date with everything except this latest Java update) in Mozilla 1.7.3

[nQuery]

Okay, so there is one big school doing it too. The department head has probably never worked in the real world and has no clue that you're going to have to re-learn many things before you start working some place outside of the school. Otherwise, you'll be singing "but it's available in" along with "we didn't learn to do work with that" with some choruses of "this place is so backward". ;)

exactly. a pre-release of a new version of a programming language does not make for a learning standard. look at all of the people who still code using c. i think that some of the people on this forumn need to distinguish the difference between application software features that are missing (such as msn on the mac sucks ... ) and development language iterations that have zero impact on them ... what feature in java 1.5 is it that they need so badly??? oh yeah, right, safari won't work with that new site unless java on the mac can support primitive typed collections ... ;)

[MacFan26]

I agree. Also when these young developers get out in to the corporate world they are going to be maintaining code bases that go (in some cases I know of) all the way back to 1.1. So by all means teach 1.5 but teach the old stuff too.
We're still doing everything in 1.4.2. They'll probably switch to 1.5 next year, but while it hasn't been fully released yet, they're sticking with the current version. By the way, has anyone had any problems with IDE's after install? 1.4.2 completely messed up my NetBeans, I'm wondering if this will have any effects.

[m2uk]

..how does one "roll back" the latest version of Java to double check if it is responsible for problems I am "suddenly" having with Lotus Notes and Jbidwatcher which wasn't there yesterday...

Thanks

[TranceClubMusic]

Worked fine for me with Firefox. If you give some information, maybe you might get some help.


Everytime I use Java in Yahoo Chat rooms it constantly kicks me out and the screen constantly goes in and out of the chat rooms. It never stays in a chat room just gives an error message: "Yahoo Chat has been disconnected would you like to reconnect? YES or NO" - this message runs over and over.

This is a major problem that has been noted on MANY Forums - Most MAC users HAVE to use a third party program to use Yahoo Chat.

I was hoping that this released fixed it and it still does the same thing.

Yes - In my Safari Preferences - Java is all checked ON.

[bousozoku]

Everytime I use Java in Yahoo Chat rooms it constantly kicks me out and the screen constantly goes in and out of the chat rooms. It never stays in a chat room just gives an error message: "Yahoo Chat has been disconnected would you like to reconnect? YES or NO" - this message runs over and over.

This is a major problem that has been noted on MANY Forums - Most MAC users HAVE to use a third party program to use Yahoo Chat.

I was hoping that this released fixed it and it still does the same thing.

Yes - In my Safari Preferences - Java is all checked ON.

I just tried Safari and Firefox and the Yahoo! Messenger application on my other system which does not have the Java update and I see the nasty behaviour the Safari gives you. It's somewhat better behaved on the upgraded system but does not work past the first 10 seconds giving a "General Chat Error" message before the reconnect message.

I'll have to try the old machine again once I've updated it.

Did you try Firefox or Mozilla or Camino? You may need a 3rd party plug-in but one of those should work, along with Update 2.

[ccuilla]

I agree. Nobody in their right mind would require a pre-release of Java 1.5 to do work (schools included). Even after Java 1.5 leaves pre-release status and enters full release, it makes sense to wait until the new version is established and available for platforms other than Windows before making it mainstream.

This is exactly correct. Most real-world systems won't be updating to Java 1.5 (or whatever it is called) for AT LEAST 6 months after FINAL release. And even that is rather optimistic. Twelve months is a more likely minimum.

Fact is, real people running real systems are NOT on the bleeding edge most of the time for one simple reason...stability. A second valid reason is that the new version rarely offers so much more that is compelling without re-writing large chunks of code anyway, that it is not economically worth it.

[basehart]

I work in a java development environment all day long and also use some heavy applets that are much speedier and useable under this update (using safari). i had one java applet messaging client that crashed with update 1 (and didn't work at all with 1.4.2 vanilla) ... it works like a charm now.

so far so good ...

I used to have to use my PC to check out the progress of my bus using bus view http://transit.metrokc.gov/oltools/busview.html because it would either not open at all, or even if it did would be all messed up, but now it fires up quicker than on my PC.

One less reason to use my PC is a good thing!

[kasei]

I have been having problems with my computer waking up from sleep mode. I've repaired permissions and my system has been acting pretty strange after the last two updates.

Anyone else experiencing these problems?

[fatbarstard]

Kasel... are you running the latest update 10.3.5?? I had loads of wake up problems on my PB17" before 10.3.5 but now it works like a charm...

[m2uk]

to the previous version (i.e. pre update) everything worked again in Jbidwatcher and Lotus Notes. So unsure what the problem is!!

[cait-sith]

i won't have to worry about it at my university. nearly all the cs faculty are mac users.

what are we are going to be teaching first year kids??? IIRC, my 100 level courses were learning the OO basics, not concentrating on data abstraction classes and such.. why does it matter if they use 1.5 or 1.4.2?

once we got to the 300 level, most courses stopped using java and went to c and c++..

[kasei]

Kasel... are you running the latest update 10.3.5?? I had loads of wake up problems on my PB17" before 10.3.5 but now it works like a charm...

Yes as a matter of fact I am. I keep my system up-to-date. Everything worked like a charm before this last update.

[HiRez]

When using the Java applets for playing loops of the NOAA (weather/hurricane) satellite images, they work great now. Previously they would hang Safari (requiring a force-quit). It's not perfect yet, but to my eyes Java on the Mac (specifically applets) is steadily improving. There are very few sites I go to that don't work anymore.

[wrldwzrd89]

When using the Java applets for playing loops of the NOAA (weather/hurricane) satellite images, they work great now. Previously they would hang Safari (requiring a force-quit). It's not perfect yet, but to my eyes Java on the Mac (specifically applets) is steadily improving. There are very few sites I go to that don't work anymore.
Remember that things like this (ports of an existing application/development platform/etc. by a company other than the creator) always have two parts:
1. Bugs in the original codebase (these get fixed by the original creators, and the changes get handed down to the porters).
2. Bugs specific to the port (these get fixed by the porters, and the changes don't get handed off to anyone since they don't affect anyone else).

Remember that the cause of your problem could be #1, #2 or both #1 and #2. #1 problems Apple can't do much about, but #2 problems Apple can fix fairly easily once their testers identify the cause.

[phasornc]

Originally Posted by Marble
My introductory course to Java development at an institution with 40,000 enrolled students teaches using the Java 1.5 specifications. I don't know why at this level backwards-compatibility would ever be a problem anyway, but it's definitely not just a few little schools that are doing it.

Okay, so there is one big school doing it too. The department head has probably never worked in the real world and has no clue that you're going to have to re-learn many things before you start working some place outside of the school. Otherwise, you'll be singing "but it's available in" along with "we didn't learn to do work with that" with some choruses of "this place is so backward".

Well I guess you can add 2 big schools to this, as I will also be using Java 1.5 next semester. I guess the thing you "professional programmers" don't realize is that we students in intro programming courses are generally not graduating this year. Most students taking intro programming now will not be in the "real world" (except for internships) for another 2 or 3 years. If we follow your logic completely then we should all be learning Fortran since some legacy programs are out there. My professor's general outlook is that the class is Intro to Object-Oriented Programming and Java just happens to be the best cross-platform language to teach it. In addition, he thinks that 1.5 adds some features that are useful to the concept of object-oriented programming, and will teach those in the second semester. Does that sound "crazy"? I don't think so. I'm sure Java 1.5 will be well established when I graduate . . . in 2006.

If you still think using Java 1.5 is stupid, then you must also think Apple is stupid since they release the Java 1.5 pre-release to developers. I just wish they would legal make it available for other. In addition the requirement of having to use Apple Tiger, to run Sun Tiger (Java 1.5 code name), just makes it more complicated to use a Mac since you need to somehow get the developer edition of Tiger (become a criminal and use BitTorrent) and then you need to make your system dual-bootable unless your crazy enough to use Tiger preview for all your work.

In the windows world you can have multiple Java versions installed and your IDE can choose which one to use, why can't Apple allow these choices. Is it really a technical hurdle or an attempt to get more money out of end users.

[bousozoku]

Well I guess you can add 2 big schools to this, as I will also be using Java 1.5 next semester. I guess the thing you "professional programmers" don't realize is that we students in intro programming courses are generally not graduating this year. Most students taking intro programming now will not be in the "real world" (except for internships) for another 2 or 3 years. If we follow your logic completely then we should all be learning Fortran since some legacy programs are out there. My professor's general outlook is that the class is Intro to Object-Oriented Programming and Java just happens to be the best cross-platform language to teach it. In addition, he thinks that 1.5 adds some features that are useful to the concept of object-oriented programming, and will teach those in the second semester. Does that sound "crazy"? I don't think so. I'm sure Java 1.5 will be well established when I graduate . . . in 2006.

If you still think using Java 1.5 is stupid, then you must also think Apple is stupid since they release the Java 1.5 pre-release to developers. I just wish they would legal make it available for other. In addition the requirement of having to use Apple Tiger, to run Sun Tiger (Java 1.5 code name), just makes it more complicated to use a Mac since you need to somehow get the developer edition of Tiger (become a criminal and use BitTorrent) and then you need to make your system dual-bootable unless your crazy enough to use Tiger preview for all your work.

In the windows world you can have multiple Java versions installed and your IDE can choose which one to use, why can't Apple allow these choices. Is it really a technical hurdle or an attempt to get more money out of end users.

You're missing the details but suffice it to say that it is careless to attempt to use pre-release software on students. If you don't know what the outcome is going to be, how can you know if it's right or not?

For Apple to release software prior to general release for testing purposes is not stupid. It helps Apple and, possibly the development community, work out problems. I can't imagine the majority of developers being so careless as to base a product on a pre-release version of anything, no matter how wonderful it is. (How long did we use MetroWerks CodeWarrior before it became something other than a developer release? 3 years, maybe?)

Yes, I believe that FORTRAN (not Fortran) 77 has a lot to teach you and yes, there are a lot of scientific applications still out there. You should also be learning COBOL 85, C 99, PL/I, Ada 95, and Modula-2 for a good background in procedural languages and efficiency. Computer Science students should probably also study LISP and Prolog to learn simple AI.

If your instructor is so concerned about object-oriented principles, he should be teaching Smalltalk, not Java, since Java is still a hybrid language, though more pure than C++. Java is a nice language and I currently do 100 percent of my coding using it but it is not a panacea.

[MacFan26]

If you still think using Java 1.5 is stupid, then you must also think Apple is stupid since they release the Java 1.5 pre-release to developers.
Exactly, they released it to developers, not students in intro programming classes.

[reorx]

Yes, I believe that FORTRAN (not Fortran) 77 has a lot to teach you and yes, there are a lot of scientific applications still out there. You should also be learning COBOL 85, C 99, PL/I, Ada 95, and Modula-2 for a good background in procedural languages and efficiency. Computer Science students should probably also study LISP and Prolog to learn simple AI.

If your instructor is so concerned about object-oriented principles, he should be teaching Smalltalk, not Java, since Java is still a hybrid language, though more pure than C++. Java is a nice language and I currently do 100 percent of my coding using it but it is not a panacea.

Excellent points... I think a well rounded student should study many different languages... That way, they can get used to solving problems, not solving problems in Java -- there is a difference. Plus, all the world is not OO, and neither is OO the best solution for all problem spaces. You'd be impressed how fast compiled COBOL runs on the mainframe. I'd really hate to see our university CS departments churning out "coders", because you might well have gone to a trade school and saved yourself a ton of money.

Knowing how to write software using the Java 1.5.x SDK is worthless if you can't write sofware in Java. Or C++. Or COBOL. Does that make sense to you college kids? :)

[frankly]

Well I guess you can add 2 big schools to this, as I will also be using Java 1.5 next semester. I guess the thing you "professional programmers" don't realize is that we students in intro programming courses are generally not graduating this year. Most students taking intro programming now will not be in the "real world" (except for internships) for another 2 or 3 years. If we follow your logic completely then we should all be learning Fortran since some legacy programs are out there. My professor's general outlook is that the class is Intro to Object-Oriented Programming and Java just happens to be the best cross-platform language to teach it. In addition, he thinks that 1.5 adds some features that are useful to the concept of object-oriented programming, and will teach those in the second semester. Does that sound "crazy"? I don't think so. I'm sure Java 1.5 will be well established when I graduate . . . in 2006.

In the windows world you can have multiple Java versions installed and your IDE can choose which one to use, why can't Apple allow these choices. Is it really a technical hurdle or an attempt to get more money out of end users.

It doesn't make one iota of difference which language you learn to program with. It is the principles involved in writing clean, effective software that are important. If your teacher is focusing on features specific to 1.5 to teach you OO then he probably isn't really doing a good job of teaching you OO.

All I can say is, come back and chat with us when you finish that degree. Personally I don't put a lot of stock in the opinions (on CS matters) from people that haven't even taken the introductory courses. The school I graduated from consistently has the same number of students enrolled as pre-CS (this means they haven't completed intro to programming with a C or better) as they do CS (the remaining 3.5 semesters). And those that actually graduate are a much smaller percentage.

If you do become a good computer scientist then it will not matter if you know the latest and greatest. Any computer scientist worth their weight in salt can learn new languages and/or language elements very quickly because they already understand the underlying concepts of how things work.

Finally, I do have multiple versions of Java on my system.

Frank

[wrldwzrd89]

Well I guess you can add 2 big schools to this, as I will also be using Java 1.5 next semester. I guess the thing you "professional programmers" don't realize is that we students in intro programming courses are generally not graduating this year. Most students taking intro programming now will not be in the "real world" (except for internships) for another 2 or 3 years. If we follow your logic completely then we should all be learning Fortran since some legacy programs are out there. My professor's general outlook is that the class is Intro to Object-Oriented Programming and Java just happens to be the best cross-platform language to teach it. In addition, he thinks that 1.5 adds some features that are useful to the concept of object-oriented programming, and will teach those in the second semester. Does that sound "crazy"? I don't think so. I'm sure Java 1.5 will be well established when I graduate . . . in 2006.

If you still think using Java 1.5 is stupid, then you must also think Apple is stupid since they release the Java 1.5 pre-release to developers. I just wish they would legal make it available for other. In addition the requirement of having to use Apple Tiger, to run Sun Tiger (Java 1.5 code name), just makes it more complicated to use a Mac since you need to somehow get the developer edition of Tiger (become a criminal and use BitTorrent) and then you need to make your system dual-bootable unless your crazy enough to use Tiger preview for all your work.

In the windows world you can have multiple Java versions installed and your IDE can choose which one to use, why can't Apple allow these choices. Is it really a technical hurdle or an attempt to get more money out of end users.
I think the reasons Apple has it set up the way it is as far as Java goes are:
1. Sun's not releasing the Mac version; Apple is, since they're also responsible for porting the latest Java to Mac OS X.
2. Apple doesn't have any compelling reason to allow users to install multiple Java environments due to the fact that Java is built-in to Mac OS X - Apple thinks the vast majority of users would rather update their Java environments than have to maintain several of them, because that's part of their "simpler is better" mantra used throughout the Mac OS.
3. Delays between the Sun release and Apple's port are inevitable because Apple's Java releases are ports of Sun's releases - Apple has to have the Sun release code before they can fix/recompile it for Mac OS X.

[phasornc]

Okay but as of this morning, Windows and Linux are at Java 5.0 and we are only 1.4.2.

Overnight Apple is now 3.5.8 versions behind windows :eek:


It's just a joke, please no more flaming me. But maybe Java Tiger has something to do with the Apple Tiger January rumors. Me and that one other guy on this forum would sure like Apple to make it easy to use our Macs for class next term, even though most of you agree we should be learning FORTRAN and COBOL. :)

Peace, good night and hopefully this thread can die gracefully now.