Tiger Or iLife 05 In January?

[MacRumors]

Apple has extended its "Add more life to your Mac" promotion--which offers a US$50 mail-in rebate with the purchase Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther) and iLife '04 - until January 10, 2005, according to MacMinute (http://www.macminute.com/2004/09/26/panther-tiger/). January 10 is also the first day of MWSF 05. The promo was originially scheduled to end September 25, 2004, but the extension suggests that either a new version of the iLife suite, or the full public release of Tiger could be expected at the show. Apple had noted in June at the Worldwide Developer's Conference that Tiger would be released in the first half of 2005 at a price of $129. With current builds being as far along (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/09/20040914012224.shtml) as they are, it seems the beginning of the year is a possibility for release.

[Mudbug]

AppleInsider has a new story (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=663) up claiming that 10.3.6 (a Panther revision) is due out by the end of 2004, and subsequent updates are expected to Panther past that point.

[williamsonrg]

The release of Tiger will just make me want that new iMac that much more...

[zwida]

It's just kind of a gut feeling, but doesn't January seem early for Tiger? They've given themselves quite a bit of leeway with the "first half of 2005" target...seems like they'd be aiming for a WWDC release.

And, of course, I'd love to get my hands on it in January.

[PlaceofDis]

im guessing that iLife 05 will be released and we will get an expected date for Tiger, but not a release yet, and i would expect maybe one more update to Panther before Tiger ships...

[zelmo]

At WWDC, Tiger was slated for 1st half of 2005, but didn't that get slightly modified at Paris? Wasn't the date changed to the 2nd or 3rd quarter?
Hey, the sooner the better. Any idea what updates to expect in iLife '05?

[Trekkie]

One thing I've been thinking about is this.

Would you need Tiger to develop an application that could take advantage of the 64 bit capabilities of the G5? From what I can glean from readin gthings Panther is not 64-bit at all. In order to really take off you need the 64bit OS capabilties which from Apple's site as near as I can tell it does indeed have the core 64-bit operating system characteristics allowing me to exploit the hardware should Photoshop come out with some new version that is 64bit...

Just curious. I've started tinkering in the Xcode system looking for things to learn on Objective-C and I thought about that as I was playing around.

[cello]

iLife 05 at MWSF - yes, why not.
Tiger at MWSF - no! They may give a release date for Tiger at the keynote, but sure no 'immediate availability'. Until now, each new version of OS X was released on a weeked (friday/saturday usually), and I don't think they'd change this for Tiger. It makes more buzz if people can line up at midnight in front of the stores to get Tiger, than just telling them at the show they can go and buy it now outside (besides everyone would be leaving the keynote in that case asap anyway ;) )

[wordmunger]

iLife 05 seems much more likely than Tiger in January. Maybe it'll include a new iApp? iFinance, maybe? Obviously this is completely unfounded speculation, but some kind of home finance app seems like the logical next step.

[caveman_uk]

I doubt Apple would give themselves a 1H '05 release window for Tiger just to release it in January. I for one would rather Apple throughly beta test Tiger before release so we don't have the problems we had with Panther and the Firewire drives/Filevault issues that necessitated the hasty .1 release.

[DavidLeblond]

iLife 05 seems much more likely than Tiger in January. Maybe it'll include a new iApp? iFinance, maybe? Obviously this is completely unfounded speculation, but some kind of home finance app seems like the logical next step.

Oh PLEASE please PLEASE let Apple make a finance app. ANYTHING to rid me of Quicken! PLEEEAAASEEEE!!!!

[edit] After having 5 seconds to think it over, maybe a finance app wouldn't be a good addition to iLife.

Oraganize your pretty pictures!

Make cool movies!

Listen to cool songs!

Create cool music!

Do your......taxes? :D

[jtquick2001]

It seems like ilife would not be released at WWDC. Its a developers confrence. I think that we will see tiger ready to go by WWDC and ilife at another expo but expect it soon guys. Ok anyone have any ideas what ilife 05 will have?

[shawnce]

One thing I've been thinking about is this.

Would you need Tiger to develop an application that could take advantage of the 64 bit capabilities of the G5? From what I can glean from readin gthings Panther is not 64-bit at all. In order to really take off you need the 64bit OS capabilties which from Apple's site as near as I can tell it does indeed have the core 64-bit operating system characteristics allowing me to exploit the hardware should Photoshop come out with some new version that is 64bit...

Just curious. I've started tinkering in the Xcode system looking for things to learn on Objective-C and I thought about that as I was playing around.

See the following POST (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=1035784#post1035784) that I made about this in a different thread.

[wordmunger]

Oh PLEASE please PLEASE let Apple make a finance app. ANYTHING to rid me of Quicken! PLEEEAAASEEEE!!!!

[edit] After having 5 seconds to think it over, maybe a finance app wouldn't be a good addition to iLife.

Oraganize your pretty pictures!

Make cool movies!

Listen to cool songs!

Create cool music!

Do your......taxes? :D

Yeah, I think you're probably right. We can dream, can't we? Apple'd be the company to actually get this right, though. But it would take a massive amount of organization to actually coordinate with banks, etc.

[Some_Big_Spoon]

Bank on iLife 05 for January.. maybe a windoze version? Tiger maybe a bit after that.. april, May.. but I could be wrong..

[SiliconAddict]

I doubt Apple would give themselves a 1H '05 release window for Tiger just to release it in January. I for one would rather Apple throughly beta test Tiger before release so we don't have the problems we had with Panther and the Firewire drives/Filevault issues that necessitated the hasty .1 release.

Amen to that. Apple's got to get QC in their OS's and patches up to par. I'm sorry but the release of Panther and 10.2.8 along with several other releases as of late have given Apple a black eye AFAIC. This off the cuff release then reel it back in after a bug is found or something has to stop. Nothing can ever be considered perfect but dang it a patch for iPhoto shouldn’t need to be yanked because of well whatever the reason was.
And quite honestly I don't care that MS's QC is just as bad lately. (And yes it is LATELY. MS SP's are generally pretty good.) SP2 has been a nightmare for some. Apple has to be substantially better then MS and right now, IMHO, I'm not seeing that.

[macridah]

i could see the iLife released @ the MWSF, but not Tiger. Fist half of 2005 means that it could come as early as jan but as late as june ... maybe apple is trying to under promise and over deliver, probably not.

[SiliconAddict]

maybe a windoze version?


It'll never happen.

[AmigoMac]

iLife is pretty obvious, maybe something a huge % of mac users expect, but Tiger? no, It will be ready by March/April but for sure before WWDC, pretty out of text to say "first half of 05" to give it 1 year...

like the G5 3GHZ :rolleyes: :D

[swissmann]

I hope that they wait on Tiger and get it as bug free as possible. There were a number of quirky things with 10.3 that seemed to persist until they got all the way up to 10.3.5. Finally most of those quirks are gone but unfortunately my Apps are crashing a lot more than 10.3.3 (haven't tried an erase and install like I normally do though). Don't rush it and get it right please Apple. I would be interested to see what would be new in iLife 05. The better compression technology in iDVD 04 is what sold me the last time.

[PlaceofDis]

i am actually planning on buying iLife '05 so i hope there are some good improvements in there, i didnt get '04 so it should be a worthwhile upgrade anyways...but the more improvements and features the better

[relimw]

iLife is pretty obvious, maybe something a huge % of mac users expect, but Tiger? no, It will be ready by March/April but for sure before WWDC, pretty out of text to say "first half of 05" to give it 1 year...

like the G5 3GHZ :rolleyes: :D

Well, maybe Steve was just off by a year, and he'll introduce the dual 3GHz at wwdc this time around :D

As far as iLife is concerned, an app to rent/watch movies would be cool like iTunes did for music. Of course that has the drawback that you basically must have broadband for it to work well.

[AoWolf]

Well, maybe Steve was just off by a year, and he'll introduce the dual 3GHz at wwdc this time around :D

As far as iLife is concerned, an app to rent/watch movies would be cool like iTunes did for music. Of course that has the drawback that you basically must have broadband for it to work well.

I was thinking about this the other day. I have digital cable and they offer 4 dollar movies you can "rent", but then I realized when it makes so much more sense to go out and rent the dvd. Cable did not give me any special features no options and no chapter selection. If apple where going to have a movie store it would have to have these things to compete with dvds.

[t300]

Of course Tiger is going to be released way before WWDC so by then Steve can talk about how well it's done, etc. This is obvious. In the future I see a .Mac revision, Tiger, and iLife '05 with one possible new app, and new iPod mini's. All first/second quarter of 2005. It shall be interesting. I will be lining up for Tiger at the Apple store as it does seem to be one of the most exciting Apple releases in a while. I wish we had a date, you know? Like I wish we knew "March 5th" or something...All I know is that I am ready to take advantage of that Apple student discount! WhooO!

[liketom]

Bank on iLife 05 for January.. maybe a windoze version? Tiger maybe a bit after that.. april, May.. but I could be wrong..

Now that is an idea !!! iLife for Windows , like iTunes is making PC users think Twice now about going Mac maybe iLife apps would push them that little bit more to buy a Mac.

if not, then the money Apple could make from PC users must be worth it .

Just a thought

[Private Public]

I would prefer Tiger to ship before iLife 05 so there can be some stuff in those apps to work better with Tiger

Not to say that I want iLife 05 not to work on 10.2 and 10.3 but if you ship tiger first the "hard core" people will buy it and then when iLife 05 comes out and will have improved functionality if installed on Tiger then more folks might buy tiger along with iLife 05.

[iProbot]

The promo was originially scheduled to end September 25, 2004, but the extension suggests that either a new version of the iLife suite, or the full public release of Tiger could be expected at the show.

I just can't wait!!!

[Putto]

oh yea baby it's all about the release, can't waite..

[drastic]

A new iApp I'd really like to see in iLife '05? An advanced (and supereasy) tool to build websites. Homepage is too basic and it's linked to iDisk.

"iPages"?
"SafariWeaver"?
"HomePageDeluxe"?
"GarageSite"?
"WebMACster"?

This would be a logical step in Apple's philosophy:
ENJOY IT --> DO IT YOURSELF --> SHARE WITH FRIENDS

iTUNES --> GARAGEBAND --> CD-R
DVD PLAYER --> iMOVIE --> iDVD
PICTURE VIEWER --> iPHOTO --> ORDER PRINTS
SAFARI --> NEW iAPP --> INTERNET

...And then Steve Jobs says: "They all work together seamlessly!" :D

[puckhead193]

I think a tax program would be great but listening to music making movies and music, share and edit/organize your photos and then when your done from your vacation videos and pictures and making a cool music for it you can then do your taxs and relized u over spent on your budget....

I hope that apple won't "sell out" to windows.... For those people who don't have half a brain and buy mac should not be able to use ilife...

[Zaty]

iLife 05 seems much more likely than Tiger in January. Maybe it'll include a new iApp? iFinance, maybe? Obviously this is completely unfounded speculation, but some kind of home finance app seems like the logical next step.

iFinance already exists, so don't hold your breath for it. Anyway, i don' t think a finance app would fit into the iLife suite. It might become an add-on of the new Apple Works, though. As for Tiger, I don't think we'll see before March. Apple should take their time, I'd rather wait a few weeks or months later than getting a Tiger release in January that is full of bugs.

Link to iFinance:

http://www.ifinance.de/index.php?language=2

[rikers_mailbox]

A new iApp I'd really like to see in iLife '05? An advanced (and supereasy) tool to build websites. Homepage is too basic and it's linked to iDisk.

You bring up a good point, .mac is so antiquated! Hopefully the release of Tiger will bring an overhaul to .mac with it.

I tried the free trial of .mac and was not all that impressed. I ended up just using it to post pictures for a few craigslist sales and then let it die.

[crazedbytheheat]

I'm really hoping that iLife '05 comes after Tiger. I wanna see coreVideo and coreImage included in iPhoto and iMovie.

Just my $0.02.

[silverone]

This is way, way, way overdue - I blow away people at presentations but I'm getting bored with it by now - new Themes, Transitions, etc. Maybe even bundle it in iLife...

[Mudbug]

well, if there is a financial app attached, I think the market is ripe for an iOwe.

there's even a song to go along with it, for the marketing campaign. :D
iOwe, iOwe, it's off to work I go...*whistling*

[Private Public]

A new iApp I'd really like to see in iLife '05? An advanced (and supereasy) tool to build websites. Homepage is too basic and it's linked to iDisk.

SAFARI --> NEW iAPP --> INTERNET


.Mac users got a free version of iBlog which is pretty nice.

[virividox]

hmm im really looking forward to tiger i wouldnt mind an updated i life

but right now i cant see anymore improvements im happy, but apple always seems to make mehappier

[Private Public]

I'm really hoping that iLife '05 comes after Tiger. I wanna see coreVideo and coreImage included in iPhoto and iMovie.

Just my $0.02.

:thumpsup: I would love that too but I think Apple would have to do something for at least 10.3 users. However doesn't Motion use a contained-type of CoreVideo?

[MacsRgr8]

ProLife '05:

iLife '05 + Keynote 2, FC Express 3, GaragBand Pro 2 with extra themes, demos and templates :)

[kenaustus]

An iLife upgrade should be in the works, but there is no reason to port it to Windows - all that does is take away a reason to buy a Mac. The revenues simply would not be worth it. Another reason would be the need to support iLife on Windows. Now THAT would be expensive.

I wouldn't be surprised to see another addition to iLife, and it will be kept under raps until released, just like GarageBand was. This is where Steve has a little fun.

Updating .mac is a good idea, simply because there are too many other sites offering a gig of space for free. I do think it needs to remain simple, however, because of all the new users that go there.

There is no need to rush Tiger as MS keeps pulling features from Longhorn and the ship date keeps slipping, even with a stripped down version. Backward compatibility will also be a Longhorn killer.

Keynote might be upgraded soon as it has been a while since Apple did anything with it, but I see that down the list.

The potential for a real surprise is in the hardware area. Not much in the area of rumors, but a bump in both the PMs and iMacs might work, speed increases on the PB (no G5 yet) or a revision of the iBook.

Apple wants to keep the excitement high and I think they will make us very happy in January.

[Trowaman]

iLife '05 announced at MWSF, Tiger ships in Mid spring

also at MWSF I predict:
Keynote 2

as for everything else depends on what happens in Oct. and Nov. but I would label Powerbooks and XServes as potential players in the show.

speaking of Powerbooks, isn't it getting close to updates on those, iBooks, and eMacs? *see buyers guide*

let's see some rumors on those.

[davecuse]

well, if there is a financial app attached, I think the market is ripe for an iOwe.

there's even a song to go along with it, for the marketing campaign. :D
iOwe, iOwe, it's off to work I go...*whistling*

How about iOweU

[dobbin]

Of course Tiger is going to be released way before WWDC so by then Steve can talk about how well it's done, etc. This is obvious.

I agree. Tiger has to be out well ahead of WWDC. It was announced/previewed this year at WWDC and if its not out before WWDC05 then we'll have gone nowhere in a year, and the keynoe will sound just like this years!

Also, Apple have to be careful about exactly when they announce/release it. For example if it still wasn't out by next April and I was thinking of buying a new iMac, then I would wait until Tiger came out to buy the iMac. That would be bad for Apple. For me, getting a brand new OS with my new iMac is like saving the £££ off the price.

In fact I'm hoping to buy a Powerbook fairly soon, and if I have to buy Tiger after just 2-3 months then my new Powerbook will have cost ~£100 more than it should have done. If its more than 6 months then fine, but if its less than 6 months then I will feel bad about paying again so soon.

[zelmo]

Now that is an idea !!! iLife for Windows , like iTunes is making PC users think Twice now about going Mac maybe iLife apps would push them that little bit more to buy a Mac.

if not, then the money Apple could make from PC users must be worth it .

Just a thought

God, I hope this doesn't happen. If people could use all of the cool Apple digital hub stuff on their PC, where is the incentive to ever switch? iTunes gives them a taste, and that's all they should get until they pony up.

[joeboy_45101]

It's totally obvious that we'll see iLife '05 released this January. We'll probably see some updates to other iApps as well and an update to Panther if it doesn't come before MWSF. On the hardware I'd say the iBook G4's, PowerBooks, eMacs, and Xserves are long due for updates. Hopefully those dreams of a dual-core G4 from FreeScale will come true for the PowerBooks. The iBook G4's and the eMacs will probably get the G4's that are found in the current PowerBooks and the Xserves hopefully will get the 2.5Ghz G5's. Not to shabby at all.

[johnnyjibbs]

I want iLife '05 and Tiger! Maybe they'll both come as one package?

I certainly hope and won't think iLife will ever go to Windows. iTunes is different because of the iPod (music match was rubbish). But iLife is part of the philosophy of Mac and Mac OS X and having that on Windows will remove most of the incentive of getting a Mac.

[sinisterdesign]

Amen to that. Apple's got to get QC in their OS's and patches up to par. ... This off the cuff release then reel it back in after a bug is found or something has to stop. ... Apple has to be substantially better then MS and right now, IMHO, I'm not seeing that.

i concur. MS is getting HAMMERED in the press lately and Apple has had mostly positive reviews on about everything they've done lately (iPod, iMac, iTMS, G5, etc). we need to ride this wave of "Apple, good. Microsoft, baaad." for a while. Longhorn may be a stunningly flawless OS (not holding my breath), but we won't know for a couple years. in the meantime, Apple can't throw out a new version of the OS, make us cough up another $129 and then start patching. that's the MS way of doing things.

i was speaking w/ another designer this weekend. she & i have both been Mac users for a while. we had always had the notion that our OS was better than PC users, but now we KNOW it. OSX was such a huge improvement over OS9, not to mention Wondows. sure, there's room for improvement, i'm dying to see what all they pull out of the hat in Tiger, but i can wait for them to make it rock solid before i do...

[iriejedi]

iMoney - I like quicken but would not mind a true Mac Centric finance program!

Iriejedi

PS_ not to be confised with the beta version - gMoney


Oh PLEASE please PLEASE let Apple make a finance app. ANYTHING to rid me of Quicken! PLEEEAAASEEEE!!!!

[edit] After having 5 seconds to think it over, maybe a finance app wouldn't be a good addition to iLife.

Oraganize your pretty pictures!

Make cool movies!

Listen to cool songs!

Create cool music!

Do your......taxes? :D

[SiliconAddict]

I hope that apple won't "sell out" to windows.... For those people who don't have half a brain and buy mac should not be able to use ilife...

I love it. Maybe Apple can release their new finance package for Windows iAfford. That tracks your finances so those who don’t feel like getting screwed over by one of Apple’s lones (The interest is asinine.) or can’t pay for a Mac out of pocket can get one.

Sorry folks but it’s a pet peeve I have. People keep harping on PC users. You want them to switch? Get Apple to stop catering to high end computers only. People on the board compare Apple to Porsche , BMW, etc. Well then you are all but admitting you are paying a premium and if so STOP telling people to go out and buy a Mac because there are people out there who don’t want a craptastic eMac and don’t have the finances to spend $1,500 on a baseline iMac (That with 512MB ram and apple care which should have been included in the first place.)

[lasuther]

I'm really hoping that iLife '05 comes after Tiger. I wanna see coreVideo and coreImage included in iPhoto and iMovie.

Just my $0.02.

If those things aren't in iLife 05, they will be in iLife 06. I wouldn't want to wait 6 months on iLife just for Tiger. I see Tiger being released inbetween iLife 05 an iLife 06.

lasuther

[SiliconAddict]

iFinance already exists, so don't hold your breath for it. Anyway, i don' t think a finance app would fit into the iLife suite. It might become an add-on of the new Apple Works, though.


How so? Doesn’t everyone need to manage and track their money? What could be a more natural addition to iLife then something that helps you with your day to day finances. It feel odd because up til now iLife has dealt with multimedia. This would be a decided departure but not an unwelcome one IMHO.

[DavidLeblond]

How so? Doesn’t everyone need to manage and track their money? What could be a more natural addition to iLife then something that helps you with your day to day finances. It feel odd because up til now iLife has dealt with multimedia. This would be a decided departure but not an unwelcome one IMHO.

It would also not integrate very well with the rest of the suite though. Unless they throw in links to iMovie so you can make a video of yourself losing it when you find out how much you owe in taxes...

[mpw]

I'm hoping for a complete overhaul of AppleWorks. Call it iWorks and integrate it with iLife with it's new HomePae style app.

[kenaustus]

Sorry folks but it’s a pet peeve I have. People keep harping on PC users. You want them to switch? Get Apple to stop catering to high end computers only.

If you read some reviews you'll see the base iMac is considered CHEAPER than a Dell or Compact for a comparable computer.

Compare it to an iBook that a lot of people swear by and it's $200 more for larger screen, faster processor & FSB and a larger, faster HD.

It also got a 5 star rating from PC Mag.

There is not a thing wrong with IBM - it's an overloaded Windows (bloated because of backward compatibility) that Mac lovers are avoiding. Backward compatibility is also going to be a huge problem with Longhorn, which is why they are cutting features out that Apple will include in Tiger. Virus/worm problems also keep Mac users away form Windows. By the way, IBM had a better OS in their System 38 series back in the late 70s/early 80s than MS is managing today, and OS/2 was also a killer OS.

[ifjake]

iLife is more of an entertainment/leisure suite. finance is neither. i don't really like how this is going. i know iLife '05 will require tiger in order to take advantage of all the cool stuff they have engineered into tiger, and tiger seems like it will kinda need the new iLife in order for there to be something there to take advantage of all the cool new stuff. it's kinda annoying. maybe i'm wrong.

[DavidLeblond]

I'm hoping for a complete overhaul of AppleWorks. Call it iWorks and integrate it with iLife with it's new HomePae style app.

If they throw in a finance app, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

You hear that, Apple? Get to work!

[g4cubed]

As for the release of Tiger, it would be great, but not likely. iLife is more likely.
A finance app would be appreciated greatly.
But something drasticly needs to be done with .mac, starting with storage space for email and idisk. :mad: I liked the ease of use and that it was a native app (Apples own) but I won't renew if something isn't done.

[trebblekicked]

i'll be pretty surprised if tiger is released at mwsf, but happily at that. i never upgraded to panther, but probably will upgrade to tiger.

i feel like a sucker for picking up ilife and ilife '04. i use iphoto and itunes all the time, but one of those is free, and the other isn't enough to justify another $50. upgrade pricing would be nice. i don't see another app being added to the mix, either, but something like adding playlist abilities or some kind of presentation functionality to imovie/quicktime would be pretty useful.

[denm316]

I agree a finance would be nice but as someone else pointed out iLife is more of an entertainment/multimedia suite.

How about a second revision of the Airport Express, one with video out, just so you can display your iPhoto slide shows on your tv, so everyone doesnt need to stand around your mac.

[CubaTBird]

why would i buy ilife 05' if i could just wait for it to be included with tiger? or will not? :confused:

[dontmatter]

Now that is an idea !!! iLife for Windows , like iTunes is making PC users think Twice now about going Mac maybe iLife apps would push them that little bit more to buy a Mac.

if not, then the money Apple could make from PC users must be worth it .

Just a thought

A bit more of a taste of apple, sure. But if you can run the iLife suite, the office suite, and all software as soon as it comes out on windows, why buy an apple? I think the right strategy is to offer only a few other things, and only those that get major hype, like itunes. Then, there's a whole "and guess what else is like these on a mac?" idea. That would be my route.

[DavidLeblond]

How about a second revision of the Airport Express, one with video out, just so you can display your iPhoto slide shows on your tv, so everyone doesnt need to stand around your mac.

Or combine that with an earlier idea about iTunes for videos... an AirVideo would allow you to watched purchased videos on your TV...

Ok so maybe thats a little out there. If Apple did it though, I'd be impressed.

[DavidLeblond]

As far as the iLife for Windows goes, its not going to happen. Apple didn't release iTunes for Windows to give everyone a taste of Mac OS. They released it to sell more iPods. And from what I've heard, it worked.

Unless they're really hard-pressed to sell a ton of iSights to Windows users, I don't think we should expect more iLife apps to be ported.

[Windowlicker]

iLife 05 seems much more likely than Tiger in January. Maybe it'll include a new iApp? iFinance, maybe? Obviously this is completely unfounded speculation, but some kind of home finance app seems like the logical next step.

I know many people already stated that a finance app doesn't really fit in digital life style, so i'm not gonna point that out once more. but there's another point why this isn't a good product for Apple. And that is because these tax/finance apps all differ depending on the system the country where the app is used has for taxes and stuff. I don't remember Apple making any app that doesn't work universally, and don't think they would make a difference here.

[Josh]

I think they would come out close the the same time.

If tiger came out way before ilife 05, then tiger would not come with ilife 05, and I don't see that happening.

My guess: They come out at the same time.

[wdlove]

iLife 05 at MWSF - yes, why not.
Tiger at MWSF - no! They may give a release date for Tiger at the keynote, but sure no 'immediate availability'. Until now, each new version of OS X was released on a weekend (friday/saturday usually), and I don't think they'd change this for Tiger. It makes more buzz if people can line up at midnight in front of the stores to get Tiger, than just telling them at the shop they can go and buy it now outside (besides everyone would be leaving the keynote in that case asap anyway ;) )

I'm also pretty confident that Steve will announce the actual date for release of Tiger during his Keynote at MWSF '05. iLife '05 sounds like a real possibility.

[Mord]

add annother vote for iweb an easy web design program

[melgross]

Don't forget that iLife can have Tiger specific features and hooks to 64 bit even if it comes out first. After all, it's not as though Apple doesn't know what would be available in Tiger.

That's the purpose of the developer's conference. To let them start working on their apps in advance so that when the new OS comes out, they will be ready shortly after.

A selling point for Tiger is that it will enhance the new iLife.

[sinisterdesign]

As far as the iLife for Windows goes, its not going to happen. Apple didn't release iTunes for Windows to give everyone a taste of Mac OS. They released it to sell more iPods.

no joke. the "everything-in-one-place, easy-to-use, leading-the-pack" multimedia aspect of iLife is the CORE of what it is to own a Mac. sure steve threw PC'ers a bone w/ iTunes b/c, as you said, it sold hardware. what hardware would Apple sell if they opened up iLife??!? that would be shooting themselves square in the foot.

iLife for Windows?? not gonna happen . iLife '05 in Jan? sure. i can see that and would prefer it to Tiger at the same time. Jaguar is doing me just fine for now. hammer out all those bugs and give me the cleanest, smoothest, most awesome upgrade to OSX so far and i'll gladly wait until mid '05.

[Porchland]

im guessing that iLife 05 will be released and we will get an expected date for Tiger, but not a release yet, and i would expect maybe one more update to Panther before Tiger ships...

My thoughts exactly. "The first half of 2005" is a pretty wide target, and Apple will have good marketing opportunities to kick things off right in early spring.

Plus, the January keynote will be pretty crowded with iLife updates and copious (and well earned) iPod self-congratulation, and I think we're probably going to see a 60 GB iPod that does something new. (I'm betting it's integration with iPhoto, with USB connectivity to digital cameras.)

[maxterpiece]

Now that is an idea !!! iLife for Windows , like iTunes is making PC users think Twice now about going Mac maybe iLife apps would push them that little bit more to buy a Mac.

if not, then the money Apple could make from PC users must be worth it .

Just a thought

Yeah, then soon enough we'll be seeing iLife updates for windows before mac because it is a bigger market. That would be entertaining.

[Porchland]

I know many people already stated that a finance app doesn't really fit in digital life style, so i'm not gonna point that out once more. but there's another point why this isn't a good product for Apple. And that is because these tax/finance apps all differ depending on the system the country where the app is used has for taxes and stuff. I don't remember Apple making any app that doesn't work universally, and don't think they would make a difference here.

I thought before, when AppleWorks rumors were swirling, that this was going to be part of a revamped productivity suite that would include an AppleWorks upgrade (iWork), Keynote 2 and probably some other stuff.

I know Apple doesn't want to push too hard when the relationship with Microsoft seems to be going smoothly, but competition with Microsoft is pretty much unavoidable and is already going on.

iTunes >> Windows Media Player
Safari >> Internet Explorer
Keynote >> PowerPoint

I would love to see Apple take on Microsoft Money and Quicken/QuickBooks.

[Porchland]

As far as the iLife for Windows goes, its not going to happen. Apple didn't release iTunes for Windows to give everyone a taste of Mac OS. They released it to sell more iPods. And from what I've heard, it worked.

Unless they're really hard-pressed to sell a ton of iSights to Windows users, I don't think we should expect more iLife apps to be ported.

iChat AV for Windows makes a lot of sense for the same reason iTunes for Windows does. Both are snapshots of how great things are on this side of the aisle that Apple can put out there without giving away the farm. A little exposure goes a long way.

I would also like to see some iChat interoperability with some of the other popular chat apps.

[nek]

Plus, the January keynote will be pretty crowded with iLife updates and copious (and well earned) iPod self-congratulation, and I think we're probably going to see a 60 GB iPod that does something new. (I'm betting it's integration with iPhoto, with USB connectivity to digital cameras.) ...

iChat AV for Windows makes a lot of sense for the same reason iTunes for Windows does. Both are snapshots of how great things are on this side of the aisle that Apple can put out there without giving away the farm. A little exposure goes a long way.

I would also like to see some iChat interoperability with some of the other popular chat apps.

I agree with both points. The ability to use an iPod with iPhoto for storage of photos from a digital camera would be very good. You could take a lot of pictures with all that space to store them.

Although I don't use this type of app that much, iChat for Windoos or at least compatibility with MSN would be good because right now I have to use Messenger to chat because thats what PC people use.

[liketom]

Ok BAD one iLife for Windows , so i still think that Apple will release some other "Bone" software for Windows user just to get them to switch, maybe iChat ?? give em that and you could call it "Rock ,Chat and then buy a Mac pack"
"iTunes and iChat" Free - Mac sold Separately

besides that my guesses are .....
iLife 05 -Jan-05 ,
Tiger - May 05 ,
PowerBook G4's 1.6/1.8 next 2 weeks ,
PowerBook G5 - Sept 05 ,
3Ghz G5 - Jan 05 ,
iPod Mini Updates - Jan 05 ,
Apple PDA - Never
iTunes Stores Japan/Aus/Can/Rest of Europe next 2 Months

[sethypoo]

Wow! So soon?!? It seems like it's only been a year since Panther came out.....wait, it has been a year (almost).

Tiger looks awesome, bring it on!

[inkswamp]

I just noticed someone mention iLife for Windows in this discussion, and that seems like such an obvious thing for Apple to do (charging Windows users x2 what Mac users pay, of course. Have to make them pay for such goodness on crappy hardware and OS :D )

I've also seen some discussions here and there concerning Safari being ported to Windows (mostly speculative, although some people posting seem to have a sort of in-the-know air about them.) Seems to me that, given all the frustration Windows users are reporting using IE, that a Windows iLife suite with Safari included (as well as being a free download) would be a massive hit for Apple.

I wonder. It's unlikely that iLife on Windows would discourage Mac users from buying Macs in the future (iLife on Windows wouldn't be nearly enough to bring me over to Windows, especially if it's still free with each new Mac) and I doubt it would drain any hardware sales from Apple. If anything, it would be yet another example of Apple's commitment to quality that might entice more Windows users to switch, like the iPod is reportedly doing.

FWIW, I think a Tiger release in January would be unsurprising. Apple unveiled it so early, and they usually don't show the OS until it's pretty close to release. IMO, they wouldn't have shown it off if an early 2005 release wasn't likely.

[GregA]

I certainly hope and won't think iLife will ever go to Windows. iTunes is different because of the iPod (music match was rubbish). But iLife is part of the philosophy of Mac and Mac OS X and having that on Windows will remove most of the incentive of getting a Mac.I wonder, seriously - if iLife was on Windows when you last bought a Mac, would you have bought a Windows PC instead? You personally (talking to anyone who says iLife on Windows would affect Mac sales).

I know I can think that some people might not have bought a Mac if they had iLife on Windows... it's just that everyone I know who has bought a Mac would have bought a Mac regardless.

On another note - with Apple's iTunes/iPod deal with HP, it's possible HP would be interested in Apple software for their Media Centre PCs. Apple may have made a good deal to make that happen.

[rdowns]

Don't forget that iLife can have Tiger specific features and hooks to 64 bit even if it comes out first. After all, it's not as though Apple doesn't know what would be available in Tiger.

That's the purpose of the developer's conference. To let them start working on their apps in advance so that when the new OS comes out, they will be ready shortly after.

A selling point for Tiger is that it will enhance the new iLife.

That was the purpose of THIS year's WWDC. It was all about Tiger seminars so developers could be ready with news apps to exploit it upon release.

[MacSA]

Wouldn't Tiger have to be in a pretty advanced state of develeopment for them to confidentaly preview it at the last WWDC without the fear of experiencing some horribly embarassing crash live on stage?

[SeaFox]

I doubt Apple would give themselves a 1H '05 release window for Tiger just to release it in January. I for one would rather Apple throughly beta test Tiger before release so we don't have the problems we had with Panther and the Firewire drives/Filevault issues that necessitated the hasty .1 release.

As it has been pointed out many times the firewire drive issue was a bug in the firmware of the drives themselves. Not Panther. Jaguar may have been able to work around the bug, but that still does not make it a Panther bug.

This is just like people claiming Firefox can't render pages correctly when they don't work like they do in IE, when the only reason they work in IE is because IE does not handle them correctly.

[bretm]

I don't get it. A month ago Phil Schiller, in demoing Tiger, simply said Tiger was still a year out. Which makes sense since they announced when Panther came out that subsequent releases would be slowing to more of a 1.5 year to 2 year interval now that OSX has matured.

[MacinDoc]

I agree with those who said:

• iLife at MWSF (consumer show, and Apple has to have something to unveil)

• Tiger at WWDC (or at least release date announced) (developer conference)

[bretm]

I wonder, seriously - if iLife was on Windows when you last bought a Mac, would you have bought a Windows PC instead? You personally (talking to anyone who says iLife on Windows would affect Mac sales).

I know I can think that some people might not have bought a Mac if they had iLife on Windows... it's just that everyone I know who has bought a Mac would have bought a Mac regardless.

On another note - with Apple's iTunes/iPod deal with HP, it's possible HP would be interested in Apple software for their Media Centre PCs. Apple may have made a good deal to make that happen.

In the end it's Apple's job to be successful and make their shareholders money. Not be a platform elitist. If being a software company over a hardware company can make them more successful in the long run, then that will most likely be the eventuality. In creating software that is so good it might convince people to buy macs, they've become one of the best software manufacturers out there, competing directly with microsoft and Adobe. If they released software for PCs they could instantly expand their potentila market 90percent. I think operating costs would have to be less, without creating hardware, and profits would be higher as a software company alone.

It has to be tempting, and you have to figure that the apps are designed with other platforms in mind. Ditto with OSX. Makes you think. Why worry about hardware when you have the potential to dominate the software and gadget market? Imagine what kind of PS killer app they might create if they didn't have to worry about stepping on Adobe's toes? Same with office. Makes ya think.

[iAlan]

(sorry did not read all the posts, got halfway and had to say something!)

I never did like the idea of adding a year to a software title. Why would you buy iLife 04 in 2005? Wouldn't you wait to see if there was going to be a 05 version? It also sounds out-of-date....I was using Windows 95 in my office in 1998! However, if Apple keeps the date in the title then expect iLife 05 at the MYSF 05. I don't know what iApp will/could be added to iLife, but I am sure apple will give us something...I just can't think what!

I think that the PB will also go duel processors (G4 for now, no G5) and that will mean that the pro-line are all duel processors with the iMac, iBook and eMac all single processors. This will help differentiate the two lines and allow the fastest processers in all machines (just 2 in the pro-line!)

Just my 2.347 yen!

[sord]

Wouldn't Tiger have to be in a pretty advanced state of develeopment for them to confidentaly preview it at the last WWDC without the fear of experiencing some horribly embarassing crash live on stage?
Reminds me a lot of a different OS...or was it two of them...its a good thing Gates didnt consider that when he unvailed 98 and ME, I enjoyed his embarasment.

[melgross]

That was the purpose of THIS year's WWDC. It was all about Tiger seminars so developers could be ready with news apps to exploit it upon release.

I know, I wasn't talking about next years.

[SallyWattle]

Now that is an idea !!! iLife for Windows , like iTunes is making PC users think Twice now about going Mac maybe iLife apps would push them that little bit more to buy a Mac.

if not, then the money Apple could make from PC users must be worth it .


Why would they buy a mac if they have iLife.

Garage band would not be for windows because they don't make Logic for windows.

Try rearranging that last line: "Window's don't make logic"

[aswitcher]

I hope for iLife 05 at wwdc...

Tiger will be may/june I think...

[BWhaler]

I think next year will be the year of software for Apple.

It all will start with Tiger, and coreaudio and corevideo. Tiger has to come first.

iLife will be demo'd, but not released until after Tiger.
Keynote will also be demo'd, but not released until after Tiger.
Same for the pro apps.

Of course, there is the option that Apple waits on the major upgrades to iLife until 06 to take advantage of Tiger, but I doubt it. It'll force the double upgrade. Plus, the wintel guys are catching up with iLife and the 04 upgrade was pretty anemic.

Of course, to argue my own point, Apple may wait until 06 when Tiger has had a year of adoption and bug fixing. But I doubt it. With the iPod & the new iMac bringing switchers, they need iLife to absolutely rock.

[Rodan]

I don't know if it would qualify for iLife, but an app for basic website creation would be nice.
Just about everyone with an ISP gets space for a small website, but hardly anyone uses it, because they don't know how.
How about iWeb?

[Diatribe]

Don't know if it was mentioned before, but if iLife 05 is released before Tiger then this means no integration of core video or core image, which would be sad because these two could add sooo much to iLife.

[dicklacara]

A couple of people have posted a desire to have a feature in Tiger to easily publish a web site.

I have some experience with this & would like to hear some more details.

First, Apple's .Mac provides you with a limited web site capability (picture albums, hand-written web pages, drop-box, etc.). Apple makes some operations, such as publishing a slide show from iPhoto, quite easy because they automate the publishing process and integrate your pictures with pre-written web pages.

1) What do you want to do with a web site -- maybe just more storage for the things available from .Mac? Some candidates are:
- Photo Albums / Slideshow
- A/V Albums / Playlists
- Blog
- Family tree
- email
- Database/Search Applications - Recipes, etc.
- Shopping cart

2) Do you want to be able to host a web site on your machine? -- Most things you need are included in OS X or available free, but it means leaving your computer on and connected to the Internet. Realistically, this means a second phone line or a high-speed cable or DSL connection $30-$50 month. If you are going to publish a lot of web pages and/or have a lot of pictures or data, you will probably need to invest in an external hard drive.

Surprisingly, you can host quite a nice web site on any hardware capable of running OS X.

3) If you want to host the site externally, there will likely be an annual or monthly fee. This becomes more complex because, right away, you need to decide what database to use, what programming languages to use and a lot of other details. A typical external site will cost $10-$30 per month.

4) Formatting information to display on a web site is not very difficult, but it does involve some understanding of a specialized language, HTML (HyperText Markup Language). There are some GUI programs that generate HTML pages, but they can be more difficult to learn than the HTML language, itself. You can learn HTML basics in a few hours.

5) More involved web pages usually require some ability to program and manipulate a database. So , you must learn a "programming" language. There are several choices, but the easiest programming languages are extensions to HTML. You use HTML to format and present the data in your web pages. You use a "programming" language to retrieve and manipulate the data to be published.

6) Many of the "applications" that people run on web sites (Bog, Photo Album) are available -- some are free or available at a reasonable price. You can use these, as-is, or as a base to customize the application to your needs.

One complexity is that all the pieces do not come with OS X. Things such as a database, an easy web "programming" language, and the applications" are available from 3-rd parties.

Putting all the pieces together is not difficult, but there a lot of details (a lot of chances to make mistakes).

If there is enough demand, an iWeb package could be written to provide the most-desired applications and the components necessary to run them. iWeb could be written in such a way that it could be hosted on your computer or by a 3rd-party host service.

I would like to hear any thoughts or ideas-- post on this list or email me directly at dicklacara@mac.com.

Dick

[wrldwzrd89]

i am actually planning on buying iLife '05 so i hope there are some good improvements in there, i didnt get '04 so it should be a worthwhile upgrade anyways...but the more improvements and features the better
I'm also planning on getting iLife '05 since I skipped '04. I wonder if Apple's going to introduce another new application, like they did with '04 (GarageBand).

[wrldwzrd89]

A couple of people have posted a desire to have a feature in Tiger to easily publish a web site.

I have some experience with this & would like to hear some more details.

First, Apple's .Mac provides you with a limited web site capability (picture albums, hand-written web pages, drop-box, etc.). Apple makes some operations, such as publishing a slide show from iPhoto, quite easy because they automate the publishing process and integrate your pictures with pre-written web pages.

1) What do you want to do with a web site -- maybe just more storage for the things available from .Mac? Some candidates are:
- Photo Albums / Slideshow
- A/V Albums / Playlists
- Blog
- Family tree
- email
- Database/Search Applications - Recipes, etc.
- Shopping cart

2) Do you want to be able to host a web site on your machine? -- Most things you need are included in OS X or available free, but it means leaving your computer on and connected to the Internet. Realistically, this means a second phone line or a high-speed cable or DSL connection $30-$50 month. If you are going to publish a lot of web pages and/or have a lot of pictures or data, you will probably need to invest in an external hard drive.

Surprisingly, you can host quite a nice web site on any hardware capable of running OS X.

3) If you want to host the site externally, there will likely be an annual or monthly fee. This becomes more complex because, right away, you need to decide what database to use, what programming languages to use and a lot of other details. A typical external site will cost $10-$30 per month.

4) Formatting information to display on a web site is not very difficult, but it does involve some understanding of a specialized language, HTML (HyperText Markup Language). There are some GUI programs that generate HTML pages, but they can be more difficult to learn than the HTML language, itself. You can learn HTML basics in a few hours.

5) More involved web pages usually require some ability to program and manipulate a database. So , you must learn a "programming" language. There are several choices, but the easiest programming languages are extensions to HTML. You use HTML to format and present the data in your web pages. You use a "programming" language to retrieve and manipulate the data to be published.

6) Many of the "applications" that people run on web sites (Bog, Photo Album) are available -- some are free or available at a reasonable price. You can use these, as-is, or as a base to customize the application to your needs.

One complexity is that all the pieces do not come with OS X. Things such as a database, an easy web "programming" language, and the applications" are available from 3-rd parties.

Putting all the pieces together is not difficult, but there a lot of details (a lot of chances to make mistakes).

If there is enough demand, an iWeb package could be written to provide the most-desired applications and the components necessary to run them. iWeb could be written in such a way that it could be hosted on your computer or by a 3rd-party host service.

I would like to hear any thoughts or ideas-- post on this list or email me directly at dicklacara@mac.com.

Dick
It's been rumored that numbers 2 and 5 will become easier with Tiger (.Mac domains for #2, and a built-in database engine for #5).

[aswitcher]

I'm also planning on getting iLife '05 since I skipped '04. I wonder if Apple's going to introduce another new application, like they did with '04 (GarageBand).

I hope so. Apple need to continue to innovate if they are to make it an attractive upgrade, else arguably improvements will be seen as having to be free upgrades unless they significantly raise the bar.

I hope for a new piece of the jogsaw puzzle, as well as greater database like relationships between iCal, Mail, iphoto. iChat...

[drastic]

A new iApp I'd really like to see in iLife '05? An advanced (and supereasy) tool to build websites. Homepage is too basic and it's linked to iDisk.

"iPages"?
"SafariWeaver"?
"HomePageDeluxe"?
"GarageSite"?
"WebMACster"?

This would be a logical step in Apple's philosophy:
ENJOY IT --> DO IT YOURSELF --> SHARE WITH FRIENDS

iTUNES --> GARAGEBAND --> CD-R
DVD PLAYER --> iMOVIE --> iDVD
PICTURE VIEWER --> iPHOTO --> ORDER PRINTS
SAFARI --> NEW iAPP --> INTERNET

...And then Steve Jobs says: "They all work together seamlessly!" :D

I had in mind a "Lite" version of Dreamweaver, a web design software "for dummies" :o , with a Mac/iLife touch :cool:.

:( Sadly, I think that:
iPhotoshop=war with Adobe
iWeb=war with Macromedia

Is Apple's army ready to turn allies into enemies?

Who knows... :rolleyes:

[dicklacara]

It's been rumored that numbers 2 and 5 will become easier with Tiger (.Mac domains for #2, and a built-in database engine for #5).

Hadn't heard about the .Mac domains---- interesting, but it would need to go thru Apple's DNS servers. And, would it require a .Mac subscription?

On the DB -- Current OS X Server ships with MySQL pre-installed (a back version installed in a non-standard location). MySQL is popular but messy to install and administer correctly. The biggest drawback is the MySQL license -- in order to redistribute MySQL, you have to either 1) Purchase a redistro license or 2) distribute the source of your app.

There are other choices that may be better, IBM's Cloudscape, for example -- no redistro license or open-source requirement.

Dick

[wrldwzrd89]

Hadn't heard about the .Mac domains---- interesting, but it would need to go thru Apple's DNS servers. And, would it require a .Mac subscription?

On the DB -- Current OS X Server ships with MySQL pre-installed (a back version installed in a non-standard location). MySQL is popular but messy to install and administer correctly. The biggest drawback is the MySQL license -- in order to redistribute MySQL, you have to either 1) Purchase a redistro license or 2) distribute the source of your app.

There are other choices that may be better, IBM's Cloudscape, for example -- no redistro license or open-source requirement.

Dick
What I've heard about .Mac domains is this:
Now, you'll have two options for your web site if you're a .Mac subscriber. You can put a site up on your iDisk, like you've done in the past, and the current URL will still work. For example, my .Mac web page can be found at http://homepage.mac.com/wrldwzrd89/. With .Mac domains, http://wrldwzrd89.mac.com/ will become valid, and will point to your Mac! (replace wrldwzrd89, my member name, with your own).

[CmdrLaForge]

I had in mind a "Lite" version of Dreamweaver, a web design software "for dummies" :o , with a Mac/iLife touch :cool:.


Such a application is already available. Its called freeway express. Freeway (http://www.application-systems.de/freeway/)

My guess is that we see iLife 05 in January and in June Tiger.

I hope for iWorks.

[AmigoMac]

a web page editor with .mac templates should come in januar, it's the best way you can edit the pages while offline... freeway is damn expensive for a non-savvy user and apple can do it far easier...

Again my vote is for Tiger latest in april... with next revision of iMacs...

[dicklacara]

I had in mind a "Lite" version of Dreamweaver, a web design software "for dummies" :o , with a Mac/iLife touch :cool:.

:( Sadly, I think that:
iPhotoshop=war with Adobe
iWeb=war with Macromedia

Is Apple's army ready to turn allies into enemies?

Who knows... :rolleyes:

I don't necessarily agree that Apple needs to turn allies into enemies -- I hope they don't.

I think that the original version of .Mac (remember iTools) was supposed to evolve into something like what people on this list are calling iWeb. But, until recently (this year) there was was no way to create a useful iWeb package -- If there were, I suspect it would already be included in iLife.

One of the problems with the iWeb concept is that there is a lot of knowledge required and intracate details to put together the component parts and administer a a web site.

There was a whole lot of stuff to be done before you could write and serve that first "Hello World!" web page.

Another consideration is the actual creation of the data, content, format and programs that comprise a particular web site.

With iTunes & iPhoto, you just insert a CD or plug in your Camera and the application sucks in your data and organizes it for you -- you really don't need to do anything, up front, to start using these apps.

This plug-and-play approach was not practical with a web site.

But, technologies , they are a'convergin'...

Licensing issues aside, today, it is technically possible to distribute an iWeb package containing everything you need, all pre-installed & ready to run.

1) The user inserts a CD or downloads the iWeb package.
2) The user double-clicks the iWeb icon.

That's it! (Someone said "there IS no step 3")

A browser window opens, pointed at the user's web site (initially setup with the same defaults used when OS X was installed).

There likely would be Blog, Photo Album, A/V Album and Filer (db) apps.

A customization wizard would start and allow you to populate the data in the various apps by selecting iTunes playlists, iPhoto albums, etc.

That's the plug-and-play part -- you can do this today.

So, you've got your basic site running and now you want to roll-your-own apps (or maybe just modify the supplied apps).

I assume that all of the supplied apps are skinnable and there is an admin function that provides basic customization.

I assume that the supplied apps are provided as well-documented source.

To actually progam, you need an editor, a SQL Client, some docs/tutorials and examples.

Oh, and you need a programming language, or languages. These, too, are on the CD or download.

This combination of tools can be packaged as an integrated set called an IDE.

Say that Macromedia includes a 30-day trial version of a specially-configured/priced Dreamweaver.

So, you can create and host a plug-and-play web site with a few simple steps.

You can customize and experiment/learn/program any applications, as desired.

If you decide to host remotely, you have a working system installed locally, that you can easily upload/replicate on the remote host.

Dick

[sinisterdesign]

I wonder, seriously - if iLife was on Windows when you last bought a Mac, would you have bought a Windows PC instead? ...
I know I can think that some people might not have bought a Mac if they had iLife on Windows... it's just that everyone I know who has bought a Mac would have bought a Mac regardless.

i don't know about that. sure, you & i would still buy a Mac b/c we know that OSX is a great OS and the hardware is beautiful, but what was the entire basis for the Switch campaign? iLife and all the joy & simplicity it brings. PC users are happy w/ their virus-ridden, cumbersome computer. it takes a LOT of convincing to switch someone, so giving them one enormous reason LESS to switch would not be a good idea.

steve knows better than to fork over his pride & joy of the iLife suite. we whine & moan b/c we have to pay $50 for an upgrade. how many $50 iLife packages would it take to recoupe the difference of one G5 sale to a switcher?

if Apple makes iLife availabe to the PC market, i'll design my newspaper/magazine ads in Word for a week...pleeeease don't sell out, steve!

[ahmadof]

is a basic editor from macromedia that seems to fit the bill for what most people want for a basic editor. It has easy templates, works alot like a word proc. program and is integrated very nicely with .Mac. If they could improved as little more and intergrate iLife with it and the blog software, i think it would be perfect. I created and am hosting a website on my idisk after one afternoon playing with it. I started knowing absolutely nothing about the whole process.

[SiliconAddict]

If you read some reviews you'll see the base iMac is considered CHEAPER than a Dell or Compact for a comparable computer.

Compare it to an iBook that a lot of people swear by and it's $200 more for larger screen, faster processor & FSB and a larger, faster HD.

It also got a 5 star rating from PC Mag.




5 stars means exactly jack if someone can't afford it and we aren't talking comparable computer.

My uncle has an e-machine that he upgraded two this summer. Spent about $700 on the system that had a 2Ghz AMD, 512MB RAM, 160GB HD, etc. He didn't have to upgrade his display because he already owned a 21" monitor. What is his incentive to get a Mac? Hmm $700 vs. $1500.

[SiliconAddict]

Reminds me a lot of a different OS...or was it two of them...its a good thing Gates didnt consider that when he unvailed 98 and ME, I enjoyed his embarasment.


And I'm pretty sure Windows users enjoyed Jobs embarasment when he was demoing OS X and it crashed. :rolleyes:

[Josh]

What about something like "iBot" or "iPlan" which schedules very specific tasks for your computer to do. People's lives are filled with busy schedules - toss out the schedule and let your computer do it for you.

I know Tiger has better scheduling to come, but very specifc scheduling needs to be possible.

For example, I would like to schedule my computer to do work for me while im gone, such as:

-Begin download of 'Album A by Artist B" from iTMS @ 5:45 pm.
--Burn 'Album A' to CD when download is complete.
-Resize images in "Camping Trip" folder to 800x600 and order prints.
-Send email to aunt Michelle, with subject: "John's First Fish!!" with message: "Look at John's first fish! What a whopper!" with attatchment: 'John_fish.jpg' @ 8:00pm.
-Check for updates, and install new updates @ 10:00 pm.
-Open headlines from CNN.com in Safari at 12:00 am.
-Sleep at 12:40 am

It would be nice to have your computer do certain tasks for you while you were gone, but it would be working as if you were actually there.

[kenaustus]

My uncle has an e-machine that he upgraded two this summer. Spent about $700 on the system that had a 2Ghz AMD, 512MB RAM, 160GB HD, etc. He didn't have to upgrade his display because he already owned a 21" monitor. What is his incentive to get a Mac? Hmm $700 vs. $1500.

Since the iMac starts at $1,299 with a 17" flat panel display your uncle wasn't that far ahead, except for the monitor and he was probably keeping a lot of the parts, including the case, power supply, etc. Look at what he kept and what he replaced to see the value of the retained parts.

His main difference now is that he has XP (or SP2) and all the joys that will bring until MS delivers a stripped down Longhorn sometime in the future. Personally I have been through enough MS problems from DOS through XP and, for me, it ain't worth the savings.

[devman]

I have no inside knowledge but I agree with what most are speculating here. Tiger will be later next year and iLife makes MUCH more sense for a Jan announcement.

I'd like to see multiple library support for iPhoto so I can keep my work pics totally separate from my family pics.

I don't think the speculation re: iFinance and such things is likely. If you look at iLife it's about movies and sound and pictures.

I'm interested in .mac enhancements. I think some sort of blogging front end to .mac might fit the iLife model. A daily journal (blog) to me isn't much of a stretch from the current apps.

For purely .mac, I'd love to see more disk space, better performance accessing the iDisk, a backup program that is reliable and smarter than the current one (saving the safari cache seems wasteful). I'd also like to see a cvs or subversion server available that xcode could use.

[jch200]

A couple of people have posted a desire to have a feature in Tiger to easily publish a web site.

I have some experience with this & would like to hear some more details.

First, Apple's .Mac provides you with a limited web site capability (picture albums, hand-written web pages, drop-box, etc.). Apple makes some operations, such as publishing a slide show from iPhoto, quite easy because they automate the publishing process and integrate your pictures with pre-written web pages.

1) What do you want to do with a web site -- maybe just more storage for the things available from .Mac? Some candidates are:
- Photo Albums / Slideshow
- A/V Albums / Playlists
- Blog
- Family tree
- email
- Database/Search Applications - Recipes, etc.
- Shopping cart

2) Do you want to be able to host a web site on your machine? -- Most things you need are included in OS X or available free, but it means leaving your computer on and connected to the Internet. Realistically, this means a second phone line or a high-speed cable or DSL connection $30-$50 month. If you are going to publish a lot of web pages and/or have a lot of pictures or data, you will probably need to invest in an external hard drive.

Surprisingly, you can host quite a nice web site on any hardware capable of running OS X.

3) If you want to host the site externally, there will likely be an annual or monthly fee. This becomes more complex because, right away, you need to decide what database to use, what programming languages to use and a lot of other details. A typical external site will cost $10-$30 per month.

4) Formatting information to display on a web site is not very difficult, but it does involve some understanding of a specialized language, HTML (HyperText Markup Language). There are some GUI programs that generate HTML pages, but they can be more difficult to learn than the HTML language, itself. You can learn HTML basics in a few hours.

5) More involved web pages usually require some ability to program and manipulate a database. So , you must learn a "programming" language. There are several choices, but the easiest programming languages are extensions to HTML. You use HTML to format and present the data in your web pages. You use a "programming" language to retrieve and manipulate the data to be published.

6) Many of the "applications" that people run on web sites (Bog, Photo Album) are available -- some are free or available at a reasonable price. You can use these, as-is, or as a base to customize the application to your needs.

One complexity is that all the pieces do not come with OS X. Things such as a database, an easy web "programming" language, and the applications" are available from 3-rd parties.

Putting all the pieces together is not difficult, but there a lot of details (a lot of chances to make mistakes).

If there is enough demand, an iWeb package could be written to provide the most-desired applications and the components necessary to run them. iWeb could be written in such a way that it could be hosted on your computer or by a 3rd-party host service.

I would like to hear any thoughts or ideas-- post on this list or email me directly at dicklacara@mac.com.

Dick

One thing .Mac is missing is the ability to post music files. I would have thought they'd make a music template for this when they released Garage Band, but they didn't. If you want to share a song you've made you either have to post in in a file sharing template, or turn it into a QT movie. Pain.

Also, I've always wanted to be able to post movies with a larger viewing screen than the templates they give us in .mac. I've since learned how to do some basic HTML so that I could do this.

[benpatient]

Since the iMac starts at $1,299 with a 17" flat panel display your uncle wasn't that far ahead, except for the monitor and he was probably keeping a lot of the parts, including the case, power supply, etc. Look at what he kept and what he replaced to see the value of the retained parts.


that's spoken from plain ignorance or at least denial.

More than a year ago, I built a new computer for 673 dollars including shipping and tax through newegg.com and a couple of other websites by recycling the following items from my old computer: 17" monitor viewsonic (it's now 5 years old and cost 249 at the time, still an excellent monitor), 12x DVD-ROM drive...These run about 35-40 dollars online.my excellent 4.1 surround sound Cambridge Soundworks speaker system, discontinued, but a 50 dollar upgrade option when i bought the old computer in 1998. mouse and keyboard, which i replaced with Logitech MX Wireless Duo this christmas (an excellent investment if you ask me)

Then I bought:

•Case
•400 watt power supply
•motherboard with 2 firewire, 6 USB 2.0, 7.1 surround, 2 ethernet ports, •SATA RAID capability, and a bunch of other crap
•128 MB ATI Radeon 9600 Pro
•120GB SATA hard drive
•52x CD-RW drive
•Athlon 2500+ retail package (with processor and cooling fan, etc)
•2 sticks of 512MB PC3200 ultra RAM from Geil

It's considerably faster at most of the things it does than the dual 1.8 I'm typing on right now is...especially games, which is why the PC is at home and the Mac is at work. but don't get me started on the problems I've had with OS X and with Macs in general since I started using them for design work 8 years ago.
But yeah...700 dollars is more than enough to make an excellent computer from scratch if you happen to have a monitor that you like already, and a keyboard/mouse you aren't using. Otherwise, you can easily get that for under 1000 dollars, still.

All you need is some mechanical proclivity and 3 or 4 hours to put it all together (one hour if you know what you're doing), and another hour or so to get the software up and running as you want it to be.

[wrldwzrd89]

that's spoken from plain ignorance or at least denial.

More than a year ago, I built a new computer for 673 dollars including shipping and tax through newegg.com and a couple of other websites by recycling the following items from my old computer: 17" monitor viewsonic (it's now 5 years old and cost 249 at the time, still an excellent monitor), 12x DVD-ROM drive...These run about 35-40 dollars online.my excellent 4.1 surround sound Cambridge Soundworks speaker system, discontinued, but a 50 dollar upgrade option when i bought the old computer in 1998. mouse and keyboard, which i replaced with Logitech MX Wireless Duo this christmas (an excellent investment if you ask me)

Then I bought:

•Case
•400 watt power supply
•motherboard with 2 firewire, 6 USB 2.0, 7.1 surround, 2 ethernet ports, •SATA RAID capability, and a bunch of other crap
•128 MB ATI Radeon 9600 Pro
•120GB SATA hard drive
•52x CD-RW drive
•Athlon 2500+ retail package (with processor and cooling fan, etc)
•2 sticks of 512MB PC3200 ultra RAM from Geil

It's considerably faster at most of the things it does than the dual 1.8 I'm typing on right now is...especially games, which is why the PC is at home and the Mac is at work. but don't get me started on the problems I've had with OS X and with Macs in general since I started using them for design work 8 years ago.
But yeah...700 dollars is more than enough to make an excellent computer from scratch if you happen to have a monitor that you like already, and a keyboard/mouse you aren't using. Otherwise, you can easily get that for under 1000 dollars, still.

All you need is some mechanical proclivity and 3 or 4 hours to put it all together (one hour if you know what you're doing), and another hour or so to get the software up and running as you want it to be.
I think most of us know that "typical" PC games aren't so good on the Mac. What you may not know is that there are plenty of Mac-only games from shareware developers that are as good or better than these "typical" PC games - these games are the ones I play on my Mac since they show off the Mac's advantages far more than any PC port could. The other thing I must point out is that building your own Mac isn't really part of the Mac experience - that's reserved for PC users (regardless of the OS they run on their x86 boxes).

[Rodan]

dicklacara,

You bring up a number of good points. I just looked at the Homepage feature from .Mac, and it looks like what I was thinking of.

If you have an Earthlink account, like most ISP's, they give you space to host a site. They also have some basic webpage templates and what looks like a fairly simple program, but there are limitations for mac users. Such as which browser you can use.

I know that Apple would make a better (meaning easier to use and more creative options) "drag and drop" style program for website creation.
This may be what .mac has to offer, but it would be nice to have it as a stand alone program, without a .mac account.

I would just use it for either family use, to share photos and quicktime shorts, or for a small business, such as a restaurant, that only needs a few pages. It would be nice to be able to edit text without having to use any programming language.

You say that HTML is easy to learn. Do you recommend any source for learning it?

[wrldwzrd89]

dicklacara,

You bring up a number of good points. I just looked at the Homepage feature from .Mac, and it looks like what I was thinking of.

If you have an Earthlink account, like most ISP's, they give you space to host a site. They also have some basic webpage templates and what looks like a fairly simple program, but there are limitations for mac users. Such as which browser you can use.

I know that Apple would make a better (meaning easier to use and more creative options) "drag and drop" style program for website creation.
This may be what .mac has to offer, but it would be nice to have it as a stand alone program, without a .mac account.

I would just use it for either family use, to share photos and quicktime shorts, or for a small business, such as a restaurant, that only needs a few pages. It would be nice to be able to edit text without having to use any programming language.

You say that HTML is easy to learn. Do you recommend any source for learning it?
Personally, I think limiting Mac users to Netscape Communicator (which is outdated anyway and no longer being actively updated) is completely stupid. See this page (http://www.earthlink.net/home/tools/trellix/systemrequirements/). If you're interested in learning HTML, the best source BY FAR is the W3C (http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/).

[davecuse]

If you're looking to learn how to use HTML, I would recommend going directly to xhtml and css. You can learn how for free at the W3 Schools

http://www.w3schools.com/

[GregA]

A couple of people have posted a desire to have a feature in Tiger to easily publish a web site. I have some experience with this & would like to hear some more details.

First, Apple's .Mac provides you with a limited web site capability (picture albums, hand-written web pages, drop-box, etc.).It does - a good start. It seems to me it's best for dynamic web pages of photos.

I think Apple could do some amazing things - you're right that everything is pretty well possible using existing stuff, but I think Apple could make it a lot easier.1) What do you want to do with a web site -- maybe just more storage for the things available from .Mac?That's a good question. I can think of lots of things Apple COULD do... but what I want is pretty simple.

For my mother -
- I want her to be able to open her website (that I setup years ago), and edit words on it, put in new pictures, or whatever.
- Create a new page from scratch and link it to a couple of other pages.
- I also want to use my own webspace given to me by my ISP.
- She has Hamilton Island links in her Safari bookmarks. I want to publish those bookmarks, and dynamically update them when she adds or changes hers (or when a link disappears).

It'd be NICE to have some other features - such as
- help her (and me!) make an enquiry form that integrated directly with a database on her machine.
- A feedback form for people who have stayed at her apartment, complete with uploading a photo of "my holiday"
- some video footage of her apartment2) Do you want to be able to host a web site on your machine? <snip>Surprisingly, you can host quite a nice web site on any hardware capable of running OS X.That doesn't bother me really - I'd prefer it to be offsite. We don't have that much data - with the exception of video possibilities. I'd be happy for that to be streamed or downloaded from my machine when I'm connected (and unavailable if I'm not connected).4) Formatting information to display on a web site is not very difficult, but it does involve some understanding of a specialized language, HTML (HyperText Markup Language). There are some GUI programs that generate HTML pages, but they can be more difficult to learn than the HTML language, itself. You can learn HTML basics in a few hours.Well, _I_ can learn HTML basics in a few hours, my parents and many friends can not (or will not). I'd be happy with something almost as simple as TextEdit, but with headings in HTML style, font sizes etc - and automatic publishing, including compressing graphics 5) More involved web pages usually require some ability to program and manipulate a database. So , you must learn a "programming" language. There are several choices, but the easiest programming languages are extensions to HTML. You use HTML to format and present the data in your web pages. You use a "programming" language to retrieve and manipulate the data to be published.Yes, this is a taller order for Apple. Maybe they could integrate this with Filemaker in some way, and host it on .Mac - I'd pay extra for that of course.If there is enough demand, an iWeb package could be written to provide the most-desired applications and the components necessary to run them. iWeb could be written in such a way that it could be hosted on your computer or by a 3rd-party host service.Apple is good at providing an application people don't realise they need.

Other possitilities:
- Someone mentioned publishing Garageband music. Great idea.
- Calendar publishing is already on .Mac and a good idea (what about on my own website!).
- How about publishing some of my iTunes playlists - JUST THE LIST OF SONGS, no actual music. If Apple wants to link the list to the iTMS so people can preview those songs that'd be cool (and make Apple money!).
- Integrate web creation with iDVD. Lets allow for a multimedia website
- Membership and discussion forums (via .Mac, at a cost)
- A paid subscription combining .Mac membership and iLife upgrades?

That's all I can think of right now.

[dicklacara]

dicklacara,

You bring up a number of good points. I just looked at the Homepage feature from .Mac, and it looks like what I was thinking of.

If you have an Earthlink account, like most ISP's, they give you space to host a site. They also have some basic webpage templates and what looks like a fairly simple program, but there are limitations for mac users. Such as which browser you can use.

Earthlink is a very good ISP -- I used them for several years. But, like most ISPs their web hosting offerings are not the best for the beginning web site publisher. Often, you can do better, by ignoring your ISP's web hosting capability and selecting a hosting service that provides the capabilities that you need.

I know that Apple would make a better (meaning easier to use and more creative options) "drag and drop" style program for website creation.
This may be what .mac has to offer, but it would be nice to have it as a stand alone program, without a .mac account.

Apple has some excellent tools to create web sites -- but these are targeted at professional programmers.

Unfortunately, Apple's OS X portfolio does not contain the programming languages, editors, databases,. and packaging that are easy enough for the beginner to use -- in other words, Apple doesn't have the things to make iWeb as intuititive as iTunes or iPhoto.

However, these things do exist! Apple, or someone else could integrate these into an iWeb application that would be consistent with the other iLife apps.

I would just use it for either family use, to share photos and quicktime shorts,

Easy to do in a way similar to how apple publishes fron iPhoto to .Mac.

or for a small business, such as a restaurant, that only needs a few pages. It would be nice to be able to edit text without having to use any programming language.

If you are talking about publishing a menu and/or a map to the restaurant, these are pretty easy to accomplish (even with Earthlink).

iWeb could certainly include some pre-formatted web pages that could be easily modified with a text editor.

You say that HTML is easy to learn. Do you recommend any source for learning it?

Ah... I don't have a fresh pair of eyes... I suggest you google for "HTML tutorial". There are also some excellent reference books at Amazon.com -- anything by Elizabeth Castro is very good,

Dick[/QUOTE]

[Diatribe]

I sure hope that with the next iLife they update iPhoto substancially because as of right now it is damn near unusable if you happen to have about 10000 pics. Trying to find one in there is like finding a needle you know where.
Of all the iLife apps this has got to be the worst. I have never seen any Apple app with such a huge potential of improvement, well maybe Sherlock but that's about it.

[iChan]

iLife 05 seems much more likely than Tiger in January. Maybe it'll include a new iApp? iFinance, maybe? Obviously this is completely unfounded speculation, but some kind of home finance app seems like the logical next step.

what makes you say such a thing? all the iapps so far have been entertainment baased apps or that geared towards creativity. your unfounded speculation is ridiculous to say the least.

[glennsan]

I'm hoping for a complete overhaul of AppleWorks. Call it iWorks and integrate it with iLife with it's new HomePae style app.


While I admit that I haven't really used the AW that I purchased I have heard from many others that it needs a major update. If they did so and included a finance app I would purchase it as Quicken and MS Office no longer are products I enjoy using any more.