Some iMac and Apple advice please :)

[XIII]

Hia there. I have a few questions I want to ask about the iMac, and a few things I'd like confirmed, and I thought this would be the best place to put it... :)

So, I'll start by telling you that I'll be getting an iMac when I go over to LA (soonish, dunno quite when, could be early next year) so i can save money on the UK price. I have decided that I will hopefully get the 17inch Superdrive, I probably can't stretch to the 20inch... I'll want to get the RAM up to 1GB, and I think the best way to do this is to order two 512's (no extra from the apple store BTO) to get the matched thingy, and this is my first question: Is it much cheaper to buy RAM from america, with sales tax? And, if I don't, will RAM from the UK work ok?

Next, I heard you talking about educational discounts, and how apple doesn't really check - Is this so? Could my auntie (who I'm going to stay with) say that shes still ok for an edu discount and would they just give it without checking?

Nearly finished! Will the rev B be out by the new year? Whats this rev likey to include? Cheaper prices? Better specs?

How long will it take to get my order, no BTO's from the apple store?

My next question is about the size and weight... As I'd have to take it back with me on the plane, what are the dimentions of the box, and the weight? Anything that won't for into a bag?

And lastly, are there any immeadiate problems about me getting it from the US? Anything that simply won't be compatible over here? Is the voltage and power good for over here?

Thanks in advance, I'm sure I've forgotten one of my questions, so I'll post it if I remember :) If you could answer any, or all :p of my questions, that would be great!

Cheers

Jack.

[emw]

Hia there. I have a few questions I want to ask about the iMac, and a few things I'd like confirmed, and I thought this would be the best place to put it... :)
Good place to start, anyway ;)


I have decided that I will hopefully get the 17inch Superdrive, I probably can't stretch to the 20inch... I'll want to get the RAM up to 1GB, and I think the best way to do this is to order two 512's (no extra from the apple store BTO) to get the matched thingy, and this is my first question: Is it much cheaper to buy RAM from america, with sales tax? And, if I don't, will RAM from the UK work ok?
RAM from the UK should work fine - as long as you buy the right modules. However, I'd stay away from purchasing it from Apple since it's so expensive and just buy it from crucial.com or some other online retailer.


Next, I heard you talking about educational discounts, and how apple doesn't really check - Is this so? Could my auntie (who I'm going to stay with) say that shes still ok for an edu discount and would they just give it without checking?
They may or may not. The questions are - if you get caught "cheating" what is the penalty, and why would you want to cheat anyway? If you're not a student, don't try to get the discount. It's an ethics thing, not a possibility thing. However, if you're a student in the UK, it should still play.


Nearly finished! Will the rev B be out by the new year? Whats this rev likey to include? Cheaper prices? Better specs?
By next year, yes. When next year? Not sure, but likely in the first quarter, I'd think. Probably slightly better specs in terms of graphics card, processor speed bump, that type of thing. Not likely to be anything mind-blowing.


How long will it take to get my order, no BTO's from the apple store?
Go to the Apple Store in LA and pick it up instead of ordering it online and you'll save a bunch of time.


My next question is about the size and weight... As I'd have to take it back with me on the plane, what are the dimentions of the box, and the weight? Anything that won't for into a bag?
The Apple site lists the iMac dimensions and weight. Add a couple of inches to each of those for box dimensions, and maybe 1/2 pound for weight. It might fit in a bag, but you might as well just carry it on in the box.


And lastly, are there any immeadiate problems about me getting it from the US? Anything that simply won't be compatible over here? Is the voltage and power good for over here?
The plug will be different.


Thanks in advance, I'm sure I've forgotten one of my questions, so I'll post it if I remember :) If you could answer any, or all :p of my questions, that would be great!

Cheers

Jack.
Hope these help.

[Josh]

Next, I heard you talking about educational discounts, and how apple doesn't really check - Is this so? Could my auntie (who I'm going to stay with) say that shes still ok for an edu discount and would they just give it without checking?
.

They do not verify it at all if you order online. When I ordered online, I just had to select what school I went to out of a list. Anyone could do it, whether they are a student or not.

At the Apple Store at a mall or something they might ask to see your student ID...but if youre between the ages of 15-25, I doubt they would ask, as most within that range are students.

Apple is over-priced anyway. Some would argue that saying you are a student when you are not is "un-ethical". Well, charging $2000+ for a computer that dosnt even come with a monitor is un-ethical to me ;)

[RBMaraman]

They do not verify it at all if you order online. When I ordered online, I just had to select what school I went to out of a list. Anyone could do it, whether they are a student or not.

Not true. I've had to fax a copy of my student ID to Apple several times after placing an online order. After I placed my order online, I recieved an email asking me to fax them a copy of my student ID.

Also, my friend answers phones in the student accounts office at my university, and he told me that Apple faxes them a list of names about every three months to verify that the people using the discount are students.

Believe me, they do check.

[XIII]

OK, thanks for your answers, I am a student, I didn't think that would work in the US... However, I am 13 now, will be 14 in January, and that doesn't let me qualify does it? I am tall for my age, but if they wanna check anyting, I'm screwed. If theres any possibility of them checking out whether my auntie is actually a student or something, then I wouldn't do it.

The Apple site lists the iMac dimensions and weight. Add a couple of inches to each of those for box dimensions, and maybe 1/2 pound for weight. It might fit in a bag, but you might as well just carry it on in the box.

Just carry it on in the box...? Wouldn't I then have to pay taxes when I enter the UK, and they see me with it? That was what I was trying to avoid, although it would be better to have it with me, for safety :)

They'll definatly have one in stock sitting there at the LA apple store? If so I'll do that...

Remembered my q :p

How much will sales tax be if I get it from the apple store in LA? Does amazon.com not charge these sales taxes or something (I have heard this...)?

Cheers and thanks for your responses :D

Jack.

[Josh]

Not true. I've had to fax a copy of my student ID to Apple several times after placing an online order. After I placed my order online, I recieved an email asking me to fax them a copy of my student ID.

Also, my friend answers phones in the student accounts office at my university, and he told me that Apple faxes them a list of names about every three months to verify that the people using the discount are students.

Believe me, they do check.

Thats strange. I never had to verify anything in anyway.

Perhaps they do though :confused:

What I don't understand is how could Apple send a list of names to a school for it to be verified? It is not that school's responsibility to verify students for Apple sales, nor do I believe it is within proper bounds for a school to tell a store who goes there and who does not, without consent given by the student - which in the case of ordering online, no consent is ever given or requested.

[edesignuk]

You could always send it to yourself from the states an label it as a "gift" ;)

[emw]

OK, thanks for your answers, I am a student, I didn't think that would work in the US...
If you are a student, even in the UK, they may honor that. Not sure.

Just carry it on in the box...? Wouldn't I then have to pay taxes when I enter the UK, and they see me with it? That was what I was trying to avoid, although it would be better to have it with me, for safety :)
Everybody always trying to get out of paying what's due ;) I would definitely not check the bag with the iMac, as you may never see it again (speaking of not paying for something). You could probably put it in a carry-on bag, but make sure it has plenty of padding. You could still get caught "smuggling" it in, and then you'd be hosed for more than the taxes, I'd think.

They'll definatly have one in stock sitting there at the LA apple store? If so I'll do that...
Call first to find out. By next year, supplies should be adequate.

How much will sales tax be if I get it from the apple store in LA? Does amazon.com not charge these sales taxes or something (I have heard this...)?
I believe Amazon will charge sales tax on certain items - I've never ordered a Mac from them. Your auntie should be able to pass on the amount of sales tax in LA. You could also try macmall.com, which I believe won't charge taxes and is a pretty good outfit as well. They will also sometimes have deals to include extra RAM, etc.

If you're just trying to save money, then first try Apple with the Student discount (call them and see if it works if it's UK). Then go online retailer to avoid sales taxes (although technically you still need to pay them somewhere), and try to smuggle it into the UK in a carry-on bag. Just keep in mind that an effort to save a couple of bucks in taxes could be more expensive in the long run if you get caught not declaring something through customs.

[zelmo]

... I am tall for my age...Jack.

:D :D :D

[XIII]

Very Funny :p :D :p

I don't wanna risk getting it taken away from me... But I always imagined that it would cost LOADS to declare it... Anyone any idea how much? Cheers emw for your replies - really good :)

I THINK my auntie is something in a uni over there, I've just realised... Would you get edu discount with that?

Cheers everyone for your good, fast answers :o

[XIII]

You could always send it to yourself from the states an label it as a "gift" ;)

My auntie did that with my iPod :p

[edesignuk]

My auntie did that with my iPod :p
Then she won't mind doing it again...;)

[emw]

My auntie did that with my iPod :p

Maybe she'll give you the "relative" discount... ;)

[Elan0204]

I thought that the power supplies in the new iMac G5 are no longer universal, they way they used to be in the old iMac, and still are in all other Apple computers. The power supply sold in the U.S. is specific to the voltage used in the U.S. and Japan, whereas the iMacs sold in Europe come with a different power supply for the European voltage. I'd imagine that this is going to be a problem if you want to bring an iMac bought here in the U.S. back to the UK.

[XIII]

That would be a problem, yes, but I didn't think that was the case... Unfortunatly, I don't know the specifics of the UK voltage etc, so I can't check :(

An iMac is a bit big to declare as a "Birthday present" for her nephew :o

[RBMaraman]

What I don't understand is how could Apple send a list of names to a school for it to be verified? It is not that school's responsibility to verify students for Apple sales, nor do I believe it is within proper bounds for a school to tell a store who goes there and who does not, without consent given by the student - which in the case of ordering online, no consent is ever given or requested.

They can do it because when you click OK to the online education agreement (which comes up when you select your school from the online education store), you are saying that you are a student, enrolled in this particular school. Apple has the right to verify all the information for accuracy. No consent has to be given because you agree to Apple's terms, which state that they can check to see whether or not you are a student.

School's check for Apple because Apple gives them a discount for hardware and software if they participate in the education program. Part of the terms of the deal state that the school must verify purchases from the education store.

There's nothing illegal or unethical about it.

[Josh]

There's nothing illegal or unethical about it.

Not saying there is...but I surely don't remember anything listing that they would verify it, and that buy clicking my school and hitting OK, that I accept and agree to those terms.

[Elan0204]

Any school that concerns itself at all with the privacy of its students, should be telling Apple absolutely nothing without the written consent of the student. The school should notify the student to let them know Apple has contacted them, and require them to come in and sign a release. The terms you agree to says that Apple has the right to periodically audit their education orders, and if they discover that you aren't eligible, to charge you the difference between education and normal pricing. No where in the agreement does it say that you release your school to give out any information about you.

[emw]

Any school that concerns itself at all with the privacy of its students, should be telling Apple absolutely nothing without the written consent of the student. The school should notify the student to let them know Apple has contacted them, and require them to come in and sign a release. The terms you agree to says that Apple has the right to periodically audit their education orders, and if they discover that you aren't eligible, to charge you the difference between education and normal pricing. No where in the agreement does it say that you release your school to give out any information about you.

Not sure I follow. All the school is doing is verifying to Apple that you are indeed enrolled as a student. If you are using your enrollment as a means to receive a discount from Apple, then there should be no issue with Apple confirming that.

Now, depending on the timing, it could be dicey I suppose. What if at the time of purchase you were a student, but you got kicked out or dropped out before Apple got around to confirming your enrollment. Would the school be obligated to confirm the dates of enrollment?

[Elan0204]

First of all, Apple says that if you have been accepted to a college, you are eligible so all you really need is an admission letter. They don't even say that if you don't enroll, you have to pay back the difference.

If Apple wants proof that you are a student, they should ask you for your student ID, a copy of your schedule, a copy of your tuition bill, a copy of your admission letter, or a letter from the school stating that you are a student. I take no issue with Apple trying to ge the information necessary to prove that you are eligible for a student discount.

What I do take issue with is Apple going around you directly to the school, and the school violating your rights by releasing information about you without your permission. As I said in my last post, if Apple wants to contact the school, the school should contact you to sign a release form before getting back to Apple. It is a matter of privacy (and there are laws to protect your privacy), and I think any school telling Apple (or anybody else) anything without your written consent could find itself on very shakey legal ground.

[RBMaraman]

Any school that concerns itself at all with the privacy of its students, should be telling Apple absolutely nothing without the written consent of the student. The school should notify the student to let them know Apple has contacted them, and require them to come in and sign a release. The terms you agree to says that Apple has the right to periodically audit their education orders, and if they discover that you aren't eligible, to charge you the difference between education and normal pricing. No where in the agreement does it say that you release your school to give out any information about you.

The only thing the school tells Apple is whether or not that person is actually enrolled in the school. I don't see anything wrong with that considering one of the terms of the education store is that you have to be a student. It's not like the school is releasing personal information, and they are not. They are simply given a list, the run the name through the enrollment database, and if a name doesn't come up, they fax something to Apple saying that person is not a student here. Also, I never said anything about Apple releasing information other than enrollment status, which is a matter of public record. I could call where ever you go/went to school and ask if you were/are a student, and they would tell me.

[James Craner]

XIII has been honest enough to say that he is 13 years old. While I know that these forums are to help people, but not sure we should be making suggestions on how he can commit fraud, and I am not talking about if he qualifies for student discount or not, but on VAT and excise duty importing to the UK.

Also for what it's worth XIII, I think you would have a hard time explaining to a customs officer why you usually take a desktop computer when going to the States if you get stopped ( while the iMac is thin, it is not that thin with the stand).

Also you may have a problem with warranty if it breaks down, I think but not sure that laptops have international warranty on them, but I don't think desktops do. This is a pretty important deal for an Apple, as you can't just pop into PC World and pick up a new motherboard (say), if the hard disk fails you can replace this cheaply, but specialist Apple components are very expensive to replace.

Apple UK do educational deals (but I think you have to be in college or University to qualify - But I would check it out - I could be wrong)

Please don't take offense I am only trying to give you advice so you don't land in trouble or end up with a broken computer that you can't fix cheaply.

[Josh]

I could call where ever you go/went to school and ask if you were/are a student, and they would tell me.

I beg to differ. I highly doubt a school, or any official institution for that matter, would do that.

It doesn't personally bother me that this may happen. I am a student and I don't care who knows where I go. But not everyone is the same, and I do not believe that is very professional/proper methods of veryfing who goes where.

Besides, like I said earlier - that makes more work for the school's staff, and it is not the school's responsibility to do that. The personl working at the school could simply refuse to do that, as they have responsibilities and priorities that are above that. Now if the school staff refuses to release that information, or refuses to scan a database to find out, does that mean one is not a student?

The more I think about this, the more I highly doubt this is Apple's method of veryfing anyone. It just wouldnt happen, and couldn't be depended on as official information.

[emw]

Apple may just go here:

http://www.studentclearinghouse.org

Apparently schools send their enrollment information here (many are listed, including my former university) and companies simply pay a fee to get a name.

This would seem to indicate that getting the information would be fairly easy, even if they did need to did it themselves and that enrollment information is not considered confidential.

Edit: This also contains information on degrees, alumni information, and high schools (perhaps private only?).

[RBMaraman]

I beg to differ. I highly doubt a school, or any official institution for that matter, would do that.

It doesn't personally bother me that this may happen. I am a student and I don't care who knows where I go. But not everyone is the same, and I do not believe that is very professional/proper methods of veryfing who goes where.

Besides, like I said earlier - that makes more work for the school's staff, and it is not the school's responsibility to do that. The personl working at the school could simply refuse to do that, as they have responsibilities and priorities that are above that. Now if the school staff refuses to release that information, or refuses to scan a database to find out, does that mean one is not a student?

The more I think about this, the more I highly doubt this is Apple's method of veryfing anyone. It just wouldnt happen, and couldn't be depended on as official information.

One of my friends goes to Ferris State University in Michigan. I couldn't remember if he still was going there this semester, so I called to see if he was enrolled (I didn't have his phone number), and they told me he was. So, schools do tell enrollment status.

It is the school's responsibility to check, since technically you are purchasing through the institution and not as an individual. The product is shipped to you and you pay for it, but you are using this institution as a means of qualifying for a discount.

Since we are a private university, they protect the students privacy much more than public universities. They actually decline all requests from any corporation/individual. But, I would imagine that most public universities do give this information to Apple since schools like Indiana University, the University of Louisville, etc. sell their students phone numbers to credit card companies.

Seems I was misinformed by my friend. Apple DOES NOT send a list of names or request anything from my school. One of my ignorant friends thought it would be funny to tell me this lie about Apple.

I aplogize for my incorrect information. But, just to clarify, Apple has asked me for a student ID.

[XIII]

XIII has been honest enough to say that he is 13 years old. While I know that these forums are to help people, but not sure we should be making suggestions on how he can commit fraud, and I am not talking about if he qualifies for student discount or not, but on VAT and excise duty importing to the UK.

Also for what it's worth XIII, I think you would have a hard time explaining to a customs officer why you usually take a desktop computer when going to the States if you get stopped ( while the iMac is thin, it is not that thin with the stand).

Also you may have a problem with warranty if it breaks down, I think but not sure that laptops have international warranty on them, but I don't think desktops do. This is a pretty important deal for an Apple, as you can't just pop into PC World and pick up a new motherboard (say), if the hard disk fails you can replace this cheaply, but specialist Apple components are very expensive to replace.

Apple UK do educational deals (but I think you have to be in college or University to qualify - But I would check it out - I could be wrong)

Please don't take offense I am only trying to give you advice so you don't land in trouble or end up with a broken computer that you can't fix cheaply.

No offence taken. I hadn't considered your points, and their all vaild and good points. I always thought it was a worldwide warentee on it... Is AppleCare worldwide? If I got applecare, and then took it over to the UK, would that still be ok? About getting past customs - I have no idea about how much they would charge me for bringing something like an iMac back, but if it is reasonable, then I will pay it. Its only in the case that it is literally the amount that I saved getting it from the US (£200 - £300) that I would then just bite the bullet and get it from here. Also, a reason for getting it from the US is that, yes, despite me attending a school, in the UK I believe I do not qualify for the edu discount. My auntie may be able to get that in the US as she works in a Uni, a teacher I believe. I know I contradicted what I said earlier in the thread, about trying to not get charged customs, but if I run the risk of losing my iMac, I'll pay 'em.

Thanks guys ;)

If anyone could answer my question about applecare that would be good, as I understand that stuff going is not good if its not covered.

[James Craner]

I have no idea about how much they would charge me for bringing something like an iMac back, but if it is reasonable, then I will pay it.

The amount that you need to pay is 17.5%.

http://www.directly2u.co.uk/customs.html#Computers

[XIII]

Thats £135.09. Plus 17.5% of whatever sales tax is over there. Total price = £907.04 plus all the sales taxes... Thats for the superdrive 17inch... This is not gonna work...

BTW: When do I cease to be a newbie...?

[emw]

BTW: When do I cease to be a newbie...?

According to macrumors, one becomes a "member" at 50 posts. As for when someone actually stops being a newbie, well... that's a little more difficult to tell sometimes. ;)

[Elan0204]

According to macrumors, one becomes a "member" at 50 posts.

Actually, you become a member at 30 posts.

Newbie = 0 - 29 posts
Member => 30 posts
Regular => 100 posts
6502 => 500 posts
65816 => 1000 posts
65832 => 1500 posts
68000 => 1505 posts
68010 => 2000 posts
68020 => 2005 posts
68030 => 2500 posts

You can use an avatar when you reach 500 posts.

[emw]

Actually, you become a member at 30 posts.
Doh! I forget these things sometimes.


You can use an avatar when you reach 500 posts.

Which for me, is as of this post! :D

[Elan0204]

Which for me, is as of this post! :D

Congratulations!! I look forward to seeing your avatar.

[Peterkro]

Apple won't accept U.K. student status(at least the Soho shop wouldn't a few weeks ago).If you dump the packaging and fit the imac inside a bag or case the chances of being stopped are minimal.If you are stopped they will just charge you the 17.5% Vat.I would check the guarantee very closely as far as I'm aware only Powerbooks and iBooks have worldwide cover.If your traveling around U.S. some states have no sales tax.New Hampshire is one and I think Oregan another.All in all I don't think buying a iMac in states and importing it is worth the hassle.

[James Craner]

If you do end up getting an iMac in the UK and are just buying a stock model, I suggest you buy from John Lewis if you have one near you. They are the same price as the Apple Store, but you get two extra benefits a 28 day no quibble exchange policy, and an extra free years warranty, which might mean you can dispense with Applecare, especially if you plan to upgrade within 2 years. The only downside with John Lewis is at the moment they don't do custom orders.

[XIII]

John Lewis wont do me a student discount, or anything else, will they? Well, not strictly me, but my dad is a head teacher and could no doubt get an edu discount... He might be able to get a bigger than normal one too, I think the IT guy is into Macs, and Apple aparently go down a LOT on their prices when a school is buying some...

It seems america is not the option for me, but thanks for all your replies guys, that was helpful in making me realise that getting it from the States is probably not the best idea...

And, how do you know how many posts I have made? As in when I will not be a newbie?

EDIT: HEY!! It says now I'm a member :) ;) COOL!

[James Craner]

Is you dad is a teacher then he will definitely qualify for educational discount. If you look at the UK Apple Store Page there is a button to take you to the education store. If you enter the name of the school that your father teaches it so can see the education prices. When I suggested John Lewis that was on the basis that you could net get edu discount which you clearly can in the UK. You just need to convince Dad that you need a Mac... (If you haven't already).

[James Craner]

BTW congrats on becoming a Member, next stop "regular" at 100 posts. If you click on Quick Links and choose "My Profile" you can see how many posts you have made.

You just need to get that Mac now....

[XIII]

need to get the Mac AND convince him I need a Mac... Not sure where to start on that one :p Thanks for your help.