G5 in January, Awesome G4s next week

[rice_web]

Here's my little roadmap for Apple products (in this case, the eMac would likely stay just behind the iMac in terms of speed):

Mid-August:
- PowerMacs reach 1.33GHz
- 166MHz System Bus
- 333MHz DDR Memory

September:
- 1GHz PowerBook

October:
- iMacs reach 1GHz
- Bump to 133MHz system bus
- DDR implementation similar to Xserve
- iBooks reach 800MHz, still G3s
- Classic iMac discontinued

January:
- G5 announced (from IBM)
- Runs at speeds up to 1.5GHz
- 64-bit processing
- PowerBook bumped to 1.2GHz (still G4)
- DDR in the PowerBooks

February:
- iBook moved to G4 processor, no MHz jump

March:
- iMacs bumped to 1.2GHz

April:
- iBooks reach 1GHz

[Hemingray]

Do you really think Apple will release a brand new G4 this time around only to release a second brand new PowerMac come January? Seems a litle questionable to me... but if that's the case, I'm not complaining. :) (But a lotta people who who will have just bought this upcoming G4 will be...)

[ibookin']

If this is true I can't wait. Getting ready to buy my first desktop Mac and I hope it's a good one. I'm really waiting to buy one that's faster than my AMD Athlon 1700+ with 768MB DDR Ram. Come on Apple, show me those DDR Towers!

[rice_web]

I do hope that my rough, imperfect, and optimistic road map works out. The only addition that I'd add, would be for July of 2003. At MWNY, I'd expect the iMac to be bumped to either 1.4GHz or 1.5GHz G4s and sport a faster system bus and memory (using the 7470 from Motorola).

My predictions for the notebook line are fairly shady. While the PowerBook will most definitely be receiving a faster processor within the next two months, it is difficult to guess on it's potential for DDR memory. The iBook line is even more difficult to predict, as the 750FX G3 that is currently used supports both DDR and faster system buses. However, it appears as though the G3 is nearing the end of its life. It's confusing; I can't begin to imagine the frustration for those making the decisions on product announcements.

Whatever the case, I'm fairly confident we'll see the G5 at either MWSF or in March at the convention then (I can't recall its name).

[Haberdasher]

It seems odd of Apple to introduce two revamped lines of G4/G5 within 6 months of each other, but I think it's likely. They probably feel just as eager to get out a new product line as we are to buy it. :D

I read (forgive me for saying this-somewhere I can't remember) they may only be releasing these G4s to satisfy Motorola, since Motorola worked so hard on them (:rolleyes: ) and they don't want all the effort that went into them to be wasted by jumping right to a G5.

Since most people who buy Apple aren't fanatics like us on these forums, they probably won't know the G5s are coming, and will buy right up a new G4.

[kwajo.com]

while I like what you have to say, and it makes sense (except I take issue with G5 in january), it upsets me. The speed increases are a good thing and are neede, it is just that I will be unhappy if my brand new 800 iMac bought this month becomes old two months later (I knew the iMac was due for a update when I bought, I just couldn't hold out any longer) good road map BTW

[rice_web]

Then, when the G5 is released just months later, the Apple fanatics will cough up another $3,000...

[MacMaster]

Sounds mostly logical...

[iJon]

that would be nice but doubtful. i think we are getting ahead of ourselves.

iJon

[Rajj]

I think there will be new Powermacs on Monday!!!;)

[GPTurismo]

I think there will be two pro lines next year to early 2004. The top tier 5000+ dollar machines will be 64 bit CPU's, and they will be selling 1.8 + gigahertz g4's for 2200 + dollars.

They can't just dump the G5 or whatever out there. they have to ease it in, mainly due to new archetecture, and cost. ^_^

[password]

The IBM POWER4 based chips are a long way away. Didn't we hear something about the Motorola G5 last Oct at the same conference? And the Oct before that?

Same with AMD's Hammer.

And the Digital/Compaq/HP EV7 and EV8 Alpha chips, and we all know the EV8 is never going to come out now.

IBM powered Apple desktops are atleast a full year away :(

But things aren't all bad, the new G4s that are rumored from Motorola sound good with DDR 333 and an on chip memory controller. Did these also have a longer pipeline? I forgot already.

[dongmin]

Definitely no G5 come January. They're not gonna introduce a brand spanking new chip 4.5 months after they release a new case + new mobo + new memory. Not gonna happen.

And I don't see Apple moving the iMacs to DDR anytime soon, definitely not by October. Even MWSF may be optimistic. I'd say the iMacs are bumped up to 900+/- come October and 1 ghz at the MWSF.

I hate to be the contrarian here but overall I'd say you're too optimistic. Personally I'd be happy with 2.0 ghz G5s being introduced next summer which is probalby when I'll buy my next Mac.

[merges]

i think realistically the G5 is at least a year to a year and half away, or longer. buy a good g4 and enjoy it! you can play LAGS perpetually and never get anything done... :-)

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by password
The IBM POWER4 based chips are a long way away. Didn't we hear something about the Motorola G5 last Oct at the same conference? And the Oct before that?
Well, IBM announced the 750FX Sahara chip that's been used in the iBook since last spring at last October's Microprocessor's Forum. And it came out even before that. Unlike Motorola, IBM tends to actually have their **** together. :)

I don't think new G5s in January is that unrealistic. If not January, then sometime in Q1.

Alex

[groovebuster]

Guys... who says that the G5 would have to be necessarily in all pro macs right away? I am pretty sure that a G5 based system would be way more expensive in the beginning than the macs sold so far.

So what I expect is that the G5 high end system will be just an addition to the current line up of G4s for at least 6 months after it's release, targeted at users who really need all the power they can get and don't mind to pay about 7.500$ for the basic version of a workstation.

I presume that PoweMac G4s and PowerMac G5s will co-exist for quite a while and as soon as the G5 systems will be producable more cost-effective, they will be adopted for the "lower" pro macs and even later also for the iMacs (whenever that will be).

So don't expect all PowerMacs going G5 right away...

groovebuster

[groovebuster]

A german article states, that the vector unit in the IBM chip will NOT(!!!!!) be Altivec-compatible, but can emulate Altivec instructions.

So the new processor apperas in a new light then, it's questionable if it will be used in the given design in a Mac. It would be weird if Altivec would be just emulated and not run native anymore. A lot of the speed advantages would be burned by the emulation then...

Here is the link:

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/as-09.08.02-000/

groovebuster

[ericb88]

We're going to see kick-ass G4's any day now, bluetooth in january, more speedbumped in april, then another speedbump to over 2ghz before we see G5's from ibm in mwsf 2004.

[robbymoog]

If Apple has learned anything from the 95/96 MP's or the Cube, I hope it's that they can't expect their pro market to be absurdly rich. There will be no $5000 mac tower. Definitely no $7500 tower.

[bokdol]

well here's my 2 cents.

1 ghz g4
dual 1 ghz g4
1.5 ghz g5
dual 1.5 ghz g5

i figure all this talk about how the g4 tops out at 1 ghz. then they have to move to a new chip then.:D
but i think i am dreaming

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by groovebuster
Guys... who says that the G5 would have to be necessarily in all pro macs right away? I am pretty sure that a G5 based system would be way more expensive in the beginning than the macs sold so far.
The Power Mac currently is way overpriced. Even if this new G5 chip cost $800 a pop (an absurdly high estimate), I wouldn't be surprised if the prices of the systems didn't change at all.

I think everyone is overestimating what this new chip will cost. A chip designed for "workstations and low-end servers" is not going to cost $1000 or anywhere near that.
So what I expect is that the G5 high end system will be just an addition to the current line up of G4s for at least 6 months after it's release, targeted at users who really need all the power they can get and don't mind to pay about 7.500$ for the basic version of a workstation.
I don't think Apple would want to do this - people would see the G5 on the high end of the price spectrum, and knowing that the G4 = slow while the G5 = fast, they would probably wait for the G5 to drop in price and not buy any G4s. I predict that the complete Power Mac lineup will be all G5s in less than 9 months, and the changeover will happen suddenly.

Alex

[Haberdasher]

Just a thought...what if Apple announced new PwrMac G4s this Tuesday, allowing time for pre-orders, but didn't ship until Jaguar did, enabling them to include it on every machine? That would be pretty cool. :D

[Cappy]

Originally posted by robbymoog
If Apple has learned anything from the 95/96 MP's or the Cube, I hope it's that they can't expect their pro market to be absurdly rich. There will be no $5000 mac tower. Definitely no $7500 tower.

Actually during the days of the 95/85/7500 models they couldn't keep up with demand. They went down the toilet on all of the low end Powermac and performas that they were trying to move through Best Buy and such. The market has changed since those days so some of the pricing points have changed but not terribly so. Remember the thing Apple likes to do is aim at specific pricing points for their markets and then add in extras on top of the basics. This is getting tougher for them to do since other manufacturers are now including things like firewire.

The Cube had to have been a personal decision and not a business decision by someone(s). The idea to have a monitorless imac was right but misguided with the wrong market in mind. This is still an area that Apple could capitalize on if they bothered to try. One item to point out in defense of Apple on the Cube though was that no one was expecting the economy to tank like it did which was about the same time. Had they known that they might have reconsidered it.

[i_wolf]

I disagree but then again i'm a newbie. As far as i am concerned with what i know happens PC side i reckon that
1) There is too close a relationship currently between iMac and PMac. Thinking logically this must be hurtin apples's creative market.
2) Windows XP .... and microsoft and intel and AMD etc... (i do not like them except for AMD) will and are trying to attack the creative market that was traditionally owned by apple e.g. photoshop market. If apple doesn't push their nose out the door now with ew technology they could find themselves loosing a significant market share to Dell Intels running Linux. Where i work part time... they just bought in 14 new Dell workstations running Red Hat Linux instead of new apple towers which they were replacing... reason for this..... boss wanted up to date hardware and despite my encouraging him to go apple it made "no logical sense " to him...
3) Apple have pledged to go after other markets such as 3d modelling etc... they have Maya (fantastic) at the moment... but... in all honesty they do not have comparable hardware to the PC side of the fence to run this app on.
4) The pc side is advancing very quickly to 64 bit processor and the speeds of 32 bit processors are progressing extremely fast.... Moores law does not seam to apply to apple..... or to be fair to Motorola!
5) Apple is currently targeting PC folk to switch. Perhaps that is why we are seeing great apps like MAYA showing up on OS X. Unfortunately the people 'switching' from pc to mac will be comparing, how the speed of these professional apps compare to their prior PC version. In maya's case the PC version is supposedly substantially faster with single AMD XP2200+ compared to a dual G4. Imagine what a PC switcher would think if moving from a dual AMD to a dual g4 with MAYA. it would not look good. I am sure that there are other significant apps that need more power also. A speed bump and DDR would not be sufficient to close the gap with the X86 platform which is growing by the month.
6) It seams like typical corporate strategy apple is playing .... the past 8 months have allowed them to sell off old stock.
7) It is unlike apple to ignore a product as long as they have without releasing a new product. Power mac has been ignored for last 8 months.
8) Historically the Power Macs use a newer generation processor than the Imac.
9) Apple is aware of all this.

Finally just because we hear about a new 'G5' type processor from IBM now does not mean that apple has only been made aware of this now.... its likely that they have been prepping for a launch since last year
Again with the PC side moving to 64bit and gaining hype for 64bit computing "Opteron", "Itanium 2". For advertising sake apple need to get a 64bit part out the door ASAP.
Again this is just my two cents worth...... but i think it would be a financial disaster to the PowerMac line (which is extremely important to apple) for them Not to introduce a new G5 line sooner than later. I would be fairly confident that we hear an announcement before the end of the month about the IBM Power 4 derivative in a new G5 powermac. That pic with the massive heatsink was fairly telling. Coupled with the fact that apple would be highly aware of all of the points that i made above and would want to rectify many of them. The most logical thing is that with in next two months, possibly launched at Mac World Paris in October there will be a G5. It seams like its a good time to jump on the apple bandwagon. Apologies for the length of this post, thanks for reading. And educate me where necessary i dont claim to be gospel!,
Regards to all of you,
i_wolf


:D

P.S. don't forget that apple Australia were on their website "welcoming visitors to see their newest technology" i think in september..... hmmmmmmmm ... pst.....(whisper)...g5.....

[rice_web]

i_wolf, you've got a few good points.

Heck, the new G4s that are rumored might be reserved for the iMacs at a later date.

At the same time, I hate to be optimistic.

[jwdawso]

Originally posted by i_wolf
I disagree but then again i'm a newbie. 1..8
...
Finally just because we hear about a new 'G5' type processor from IBM now does not mean that apple has only been made aware of this now.... its likely that they have been prepping for a launch since last year
Again with the PC side moving to 64bit and gaining hype for 64bit computing "Opteron", "Itanium 2". For advertising sake apple need to get a 64bit part out the door ASAP.
Again this is just my two cents worth...... but i think it would be a financial disaster ...


Good thoughts! I'll add that key is the technology being ready. IBM's and Apple's decision regarding investment and future products such as the Power4 for desktops were made months and months ago. It would be hard to affect the release date by weeks, much less months - there are only so many capable engineers and other resources. I'm sure that Apple - Steve Jobs - would have given us 2.4Mhz PPCs years ago if they could, but NOW is not a bad time!

[snoopy]

There are many opinions, but from what we know now about IBM's new processor, I think a scenario must pass two tests to make sense.

1) Apple will announce the G5 processor before October 15th. There is no way Steve Jobs would let this processor be examined in detail before he gets a chance to tell us all about it. (Maybe this early revelation of the processor came sooner than planned.) There is no rule about when a new processor can be discussed on that Forum. A G5 could be in pilot production now, for all we know.

2) The scenario must account for the difference in system interface between a current G4 and the new G5. Likely, these cannot share a common motherboard, or support the same speed RAM, or interface to other system chips in the same way. If this is true, the current G4 and new G5 would not mix well in a PowerMac lineup, with low end and high end models.

One scenario that passes the tests is where Apple introduces a new high-end G5 Mac. It might be in a 2U or 3U rackmount enclosure, but there could be both a server and a workstation version of it. In the future, the G5 surely will find its way into PowerMacs, maybe after IBM is supplying G4s with the same system interface. For now, the PowerMacs may get speed bumps and enhancements of the motherboard. Such a scenario means a gradual moving away from Motorola, and beginning to use IBM chips, which seems most likely.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by rice_web
Here's my little roadmap for Apple products (in this case, the eMac would likely stay just behind the iMac in terms of speed):

Mid-August:
- PowerMacs reach 1.33GHz
- 166MHz System Bus
- 333MHz DDR Memory

September:
- 1GHz PowerBook

October:
- iMacs reach 1GHz
- Bump to 133MHz system bus
- DDR implementation similar to Xserve
- iBooks reach 800MHz, still G3s
- Classic iMac discontinued

January:
- G5 announced (from IBM)
- Runs at speeds up to 1.5GHz
- 64-bit processing
- PowerBook bumped to 1.2GHz (still G4)
- DDR in the PowerBooks

February:
- iBook moved to G4 processor, no MHz jump

March:
- iMacs bumped to 1.2GHz

April:
- iBooks reach 1GHz

i also like your roadmap very much

but i think it is a little optomistic, especially any new g4 this month...but i hope i am wrong

[TRyan]

Originally posted by iJon
I work for an authrorized Apple Dealer. We have been told by our apple rep for our region when the new powermacs will come out. He didn't come out and say it (probably because he isnt suppose to), but he basically hinted it to us. New Powermacs will come out on Aug. 24 along with Jaguar so they will be able to ship together. This for all you people that thought the powermacs were gonna come out like 4 days ago. Anyways, something to consider, Steve Jobs said himself that they will never introduce Powermacs on a Macworld or special event anymore. when they do this big companys keep buying, just thought i would let you guys know that. anyways, i wasnt told specs on teh computers though, but they will be out aug. 24th. look forward to it.

iJon

Apple will not release the new G4 on August 24th, they never will release it only because they will bring out the G5. I have a friend who is good family friends with the vice president of Apple. He told him that they are done with the G4 and will move on the the G5 (for the pro line). I am guessing that they will ship the G5 with Jaguar on the 24th. He didn't say when they would ship them but he did say that they will ship with Jaguar, so I dont think that it will come out before then. A lot of you probably think I'm writing a bunch a BS but this is what my friend told me, and he wouldn't lie.

[merges]

there's no g5 this month. if you're waiting on buying a new mac because you want a g5, you'll be new-mac-less for a long, long while. get a g4 and enjoy it!

new power mac g4s, new and improved, as widely reported, are probably going to be introduced early next week.

finally, you can go out and buy one!

imagine if the "buy-or-don't-buy-on-rumours" people were money managers. yikes!

[topicolo]

Originally posted by TRyan


Apple will not release the new G4 on August 24th, they never will release it only because they will bring out the G5. I have a friend who is good family friends with the vice president of Apple. He told him that they are done with the G4 and will move on the the G5 (for the pro line). I am guessing that they will ship the G5 with Jaguar on the 24th. He didn't say when they would ship them but he did say that they will ship with Jaguar, so I dont think that it will come out before then. A lot of you probably think I'm writing a bunch a BS but this is what my friend told me, and he wouldn't lie.

hmmm... his credibility seems a little shaky since he doesn't even seem to know that a publicly traded company has more than just one vice-president. Who is this Vice President???
Fred Anderson, Exec VP?
Tim Cook, VP worldwide sales and ops?
Nancy Heinen, VP general counsel?
Ron Johnson, VP, retail?
Peter Oppenheimer, VP fincance?
Jon Rubinstein, VP Hardware Engineering?
Phil Schiller, VP product marketing?
Sina Tamaddon, VP apps?
Avi Tevanian Jr, VP software engineering?

[merges]

not that i am quite sure of the validity of this argument, but what about the many, many *other* (non-executive/senior) vice presidents?

[Haberdasher]

I can't wait until they release their next line of G4s/G5s/Tanks (As some of you would have us believe), and we can all criticize the various "Friends of friends'" reliability and whose Apple Retailer isn't from an alternate reality.

Fairly exciting, really. I just found this site 2 or 3 weeks ago, and it's good to see how many people are as excited about these kinds of Apple products as I am!

Let the skepticism soon begin! :D

[topicolo]

Originally posted by merges
not that i am quite sure of the validity of this argument, but what about the many, many *other* (non-executive/senior) vice presidents?

Well that just supports my argument that if the friend thinks that apple has only one vice president, he obviously either doesn't know what he is talking about, or that friend is lying because if he was that good a friend with this mysterious vice president, he would know what department the guy is a VP of.

[TRyan]

Originally posted by topicolo


Well that just supports my argument that if the friend thinks that apple has only one vice president, he obviously either doesn't know what he is talking about, or that friend is lying because if he was that good a friend with this mysterious vice president, he would know what department the guy is a VP of.

I just thought I would share what I know with everyone. Are you anti-G5 or something? That is all I know, but, now matter how many vice-presidents there are, they would know. I can guess that SJ tells his vice-president(s) what is going on. Wouldn't you? Well will see soon, won't we?

[G4scott]

I think that the predictions about a new PowerMac next week, and the G5's early next year are pretty accurate... I'm not sure if it'll be in January when they'll release new PowerMacs, but you never know... Maybe that's why Apple expected their sales to be flat, because even though they will have new PowerMacs next week, they will just keep Apple's sales from going into a slump, until they release new processors in their PowerMacs...

What might happen, is that Apple might start to make their hardware more upgradeable, so that if you buy a new PowerMac next week, you can still upgrade it with a processor module, or something like that... Or, Apple might introduce a new generation of Macs, called the ProMac, making the PowerMac the middle-line product.

[snoopy]

The brief description from IBM about a new 64 bit leaves us with two, almost obvious, conclusions. Yet many reject one or both of these conclusions, which may seem too good to be true. Others may dare to hope that they are true. The first, conclusion is that the new 64 bit PPC processor is designed specifically for Apple, in cooperation with Apple. The second is that a new G5 and a G5 Mac will be announced most likely within 2 months. Anything more is speculation, about how this will happen and what products are involved.

Consider the first conclusion. Does it fit the events of the last couple years, and does it make sense? Since going with Motorola, Apple has had problems and disappointments -- the 500 MHz goof up and then a painfully slow rise in performance, as Intel and AMD took off. Apple went from toasting Pentiums to being toasted. Surely, Steve Jobs is one to take action when there is a sign of trouble. (Consider the clones.) One sign of action was when Apple began to hire microprocessor engineers; we knew something was up. So what would we expected to hear if Apple indeed did begin working with IBM at that time? Nothing, absolutely nothing at all. If a company plans to ditch it main supplier, they keep it as secret as possible. It takes a long time to develop a new processor, and Apple had to stay competitive in the mean time. Even the first hint of a new Apple processor from IBM would not be known until it was ready to release. Add to all this the fact that the processor description is exactly what Apple wants. A 64 bit G5 with a velocity engine and the power to run all those new high-end applications that Apple has been buying up. We pretty much know Apple is after the film industry, and this will let them do it. So far, everything makes sense, but is it the only answer? Well, what are the alternatives?

Maybe IBM designed it for someone else, or IBM has plans to use it in their own new product. Possible, but where is any evidence at all? Maybe IBM is wooing Apple and hopes Apple will design a new Mac to use it. Does anyone seriously think this is how IBM makes its new product decisions? Maybe the processor is for network and communications fields. Then why does IBM state that it is for desktops and entry level servers? It is not even an embedded design.

The second conclusion just makes the most sense if we accept the first. We know for sure that Steve wants to break the news about a G5 first. Anyone disagree with that? So the announcement needs to happen well before October 15th. Since speculation will build after the hint we got from IBM, it will likely be very soon. The forum in October will not be like Motorola talking about future PPC development, which was always going on and no one knew for sure if and when it would happen. Here we have a major switch of players, coupled with a huge leap forward in the PPC family. This is a much bigger deal, and folks will be asking a lot of questions. By the time IBM finishes their presentation, no one will need an announcement to know who the processor is for. Possibly the agenda for the forum was posted too soon. The news stories of IBM wooing Apple may actually be providing good damage control for Apple. It's very possible the G5 is in pilot production now. IBM does not have to wait for the new plant to be on-line. They have been making processors for years without it. The new plant will have benefits for the future, however.

[topicolo]

Originally posted by TRyan


I just thought I would share what I know with everyone. Are you anti-G5 or something? That is all I know, but, now matter how many vice-presidents there are, they would know. I can guess that SJ tells his vice-president(s) what is going on. Wouldn't you? Well will see soon, won't we?

Anti-G5? ha! don't make me laugh. I was only questioning your source since it didn't seem like he knew what he was talking about.

[Cappy]

It is funny how everyone is trying to make this new ibm chip out to be the next G5. First there really is no concrete proof no matter how "obvious" it might look. Second, unless this is something that has been in the works for awhile, I'd guess that this might be more of a G5+, G6, or other naming scheme for Apple's systems. These things take time.

[Joshlew]

New G4s this month..........

G5s early next year............

It just keeps on getting better!!!!!!!:D

[MacCoaster]

Originally posted by jwdawso
...would have given us 2.4Mhz PPCs years ago if they could, but NOW is not a bad time!
2.4 MegaHertzs?! No thanks, I'll take the current G4s over those 2.4MHz Power Macs! ;) :D

[Capt. Obvious]

Originally posted by merges
imagine if the "buy-or-don't-buy-on-rumours" people were money managers. yikes!

Funny thing is, most investors "manage" their money on this basis - it's been a key factor in the dot.com/tech meltdown. Business and technology are completely different, and being good w/ one of them is no preditctor of success w/ the other.

Disagree (respectfully) w/ the rest of your post. ;)

[alex_ant]

Captain Obvious! Where were you during all those Apple-must-switch-to-x86-or-they-will-die threads? We could have used your help! :D

[snoopy]

Originally posted by Cappy
It is funny how everyone is trying to make this new ibm chip out to be the next G5. First there really is no concrete proof no matter how "obvious" it might look. Second, unless this is something that has been in the works for awhile, I'd guess that this might be more of a G5+, G6, or other naming scheme for Apple's systems. These things take time.
The only concrete proof we get is when Apple announces it. Who has concrete proof of anything discussed here? Second, it has likely been in the works for one or two years now. Ever since Steve Jobs realized that he may never get a G5 from Motorola.

[Capt. Obvious]

Originally posted by alex_ant
Captain Obvious! Where were you during all those Apple-must-switch-to-x86-or-they-will-die threads? We could have used your help! :D
Sorry - got turned around on the elevator, ended up on the wrong planet. ;) :D

No worries - you guys did just fine! Besides, I'm *sure* there'll be another round....:rolleyes:

[IndyGopher]

A little history...

Back a few decades ago, when the DOJ actually had teeth, they cracked the whip on IBM for announcing products Loooong before they were ready to ship. This is the basis of the term FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) that you hear now and then. IBM was the master of this long, long before Microsoft stole their playbook and ran with it. IBM's reps would use this FUD to convince customers that anyone else's solutions would not work with the customers new (or next) IBM hardware.

Part of the judgement handed down said that IBM could only announce products that were ready to ship imminently. (I think this was determined to mean 60 days) Now, while this judgement is old, and probably expired... it has governed the way IBM does business for the last quarter century... be it habit, fear, whatever.

The point of this is that unlike a lot of companies, when IBM talks about a new product, it's pretty much complete. Note that there is a difference between announcing a new TECHNOLOGY, and announcing a new PRODUCT. This CPU would be the latter. It will be ready RSN. (Real Soon Now)

[Capt. Obvious]

Originally posted by Cappy
It is funny how everyone is trying to make this new ibm chip out to be the next G5. First there really is no concrete proof no matter how "obvious" it might look.

I'll grant you the point on lack of proof - but the fact is that the new IBM chip - as reported - is an obvious natural fit for the PowerMacs; so much so that its appearance in the upcoming round of PMs wouldn't surprise me. On the contrary, if Apple failed to use this chip once it's available (again, assuming that it is as reported so far), in order to stay with MOT's G4, I'd consider that an act of stunning stupidity.

As for whether this chip is, or is not, "the" G5 - well damn, man, I think it'll do, don't you?
Second, unless this is something that has been in the works for awhile, I'd guess that this might be more of a...naming scheme.... These things take time.

Unless I miss my guess, Apple has been actively pursuing the next big kick-in-the-butt for the last 2-2.5 years. If their efforts have been in the direction of enabling a scaled-down POWER4 in that time (as opposed to scaling up from th G4), I think it entirely possible for said chip to be availabe in quantity around now.

Still, the most provocative comment so far on the pending PMs:
what they did say was that they 'have seen the new powermacs' and they told me that 'all the rumors are right, in principle, just not in the details'".

It's things like this that cause unrest....:D

[sparkleytone]

finally a few newbies that i can tolerate. snoopy i really liked your comment about apple keeping it secret. if they were public, moto would have brough on a sh*tstorm, and we would probably all be running on 602MHz G4s and hoping and praying for the next generation 606MHz ones :rolleyes:

Captain Obvious, nice sig.

[colocolo]

Not completely on-topic, but in a conference held on January 1998, Arnoldo Hax, former MIT dean and financial consultor for Motorola, stated that the company did not see good sales coming from the Macintosh platform and would subsequently lower the research and eventually stop producing chips for them. I can't recall dates, but it seems the time would be right about now...

This is not a rumor but a fact, if you don't beleive me just look him up and ask him directly :D

[bousozoku]

Originally posted by Haberdasher
Just a thought...what if Apple announced new PwrMac G4s this Tuesday, allowing time for pre-orders, but didn't ship until Jaguar did, enabling them to include it on every machine? That would be pretty cool. :D

It would make sense for them to prepare the world for the machines' arrival. It would be good P.R. to ship them with 10.2 instead of 10.1.5 and a coupon. They seem to learn from each P.R. faux pas but then, are doomed to try another instead.

[topicolo]

Originally posted by colocolo
Not completely on-topic, but in a conference held on January 1998, Arnoldo Hax, former MIT dean and financial consultor for Motorola, stated that the company did not see good sales coming from the Macintosh platform and would subsequently lower the research and eventually stop producing chips for them. I can't recall dates, but it seems the time would be right about now...

This is not a rumor but a fact, if you don't beleive me just look him up and ask him directly :D

hey, nice name Colocolo :-)

[jadam]

Originally posted by password
The IBM POWER4 based chips are a long way away. Didn't we hear something about the Motorola G5 last Oct at the same conference? And the Oct before that?

Same with AMD's Hammer.

And the Digital/Compaq/HP EV7 and EV8 Alpha chips, and we all know the EV8 is never going to come out now.

IBM powered Apple desktops are atleast a full year away :(

But things aren't all bad, the new G4s that are rumored from Motorola sound good with DDR 333 and an on chip memory controller. Did these also have a longer pipeline? I forgot already.


errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr



This is IBM, READ IBM, not some small company like AMD and Motorolla OK?

The AMD Hammer was a BRAND NEW Design. The G5 from Moto was a BRAND NEW Design. The G5 from IBM is NOT A BRAND NEW DESIGN, its simply a scaled down version of the Power4. and IBM does not lie remember that, there a 100billion dollar a year company ok?

Secondly... errr 1.33ghz????? WHY??? WHY NOT 1.4?????? err you guys dont know what ur talking bout heh.

Anyways! the ibooks WILL be bumped to 900mhz not 800, the current ibooks can go 800 so... new Speed bumbed iMacs... sure that would be good heh. your TiBook rumors are ok also heh.

AND BTW, remember one thing, IBM is gunning for 2ghz with the Power4, the chip is most likely already complete, there just going to release the technical details on it. IBM has way more research projects than Motorolla and these new Power4s are crucial not just for apple but for IBM also.

[imamacguy17]

First things first. Road map the first had updates like every month for the next year. Product updates from Apple have been roughly (key word in this sentence) 6 months or so apart. second the imac is not going to get a revision until christmas buying season. maybe earliest october. Lets go with this time table for next year


August (either 13th or 24)
Power Mac its gonna be a g4. no doubts about it.
its going to have the improvements in the board to move to the g5 next year.
DDR. Faster Bus. Bigger Cache. Speeds 1.2,1.3,1.4 ghz.

Also on the 24th the official Day of Jaguar (ps. it is shipping on the 17" imacs)
we will see a new device. Remember how steve kinda glossed over the whole
inkwell portion of X.2? at MWNY02 because their is a product tie in. we will see
this most likely on the 24th. Otherwise im going to say on the 1 year aniversary of ipod.

We will see a Xserve day with focus on the Xserve raid unit.


November we will see bumps in the portable line much like last year.
Probably superdrive. for Tibook. Most likely price drop in ibook. Not much minor revision.

MWSF03
we will see the updated imacs. more ram, speaker,isub. bigger better faster.
lets go with 1.2 ghz ceiling.(1.0,1.1,1.2) combo drive on the low end. superdriveon the top three.
faster buss. not 133, but 266.

Seybold we will meet the new Power Mac G5s. IBM shows of the chip October. Apple utilizes them in March.

2002 and 2003 Apple will make great strides in the market place.

Then there is always one more thing... from steve you can not make predictions.
We get what we get when we get it. My calender is probably as whacked as the first one. but dont worry. we will see great things we always do.

[Olorin]

Many of you seem to think that because Apple has had a hard time with the G4 scaling it means that they will continue to have slow CPU's and little upgrades. You will all remember that once apple was ahead of intel, and there is no reason why they couldn't be again. This IBM chip that you talk about is very interesting. Although I do not have any insider info on the chip from what seams to be obvious this will be the next PPC chip to be used inside a Mac. Using this chip fits all sides of the equation that Apple has been trying to solve. I also see this chip coming out very soon. IBM does not talk about upcoming products unless they are almost done. This is a known fact of how IBM works ( at least for the last years here) I can believe that we will see these chips this month although I am not saying I would place a be on it. :D