Tiger Release Date?

[MacRumors]

Several sites are reporting that Amazon is listing a release date of March 31, 2005 for Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger).

Amazon has frequently posted unofficial release dates on pre-release items, and this likely does not represent any inside knowledge.

Apple first announced Tiger at WWDC 2004 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/06/20040628150055.shtml) and stated that it would be released in the first half of 2005.

[dizastor]

can't wait to shell out another $129 to help Apple's profit margins.

[mattster16]

I can't wait! Actually Panther is working fine for me, but some of the features sound interesting. ($129 interesting? not sure yet.) But go Apple!

[zelmo]

I bet they just picked a date (which happens to fall smack dab in the middle of Apples 1H2005 target) to put on the product so they begin taking pre-orders. Most people aren't going to order it without a release date.

[Toeknee]

Hmm time to renew the Apple OS Subscription. I'll keep paying it as long as the OS keeps kicking ass!

[Macaddicttt]

I don't think that the release date is real (Amazon usually isn't right for these sorts of things), but that sounds like a nice release date. With a little luck, Apple's real release date will be that or earlier.

And shouldn't this be Page 2? Amazon posting a release date before Apple doesn't sound like a real solid rumor.

[jimsowden]

Another retread of a post from days ago on Macrumors.
2 Days ago!
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=92902&highlight=tiger+release

[arn]

Another retread of a post from days ago on Macrumors.
2 Days ago!
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=92902&highlight=tiger+release

yeah... was submitted a few days ago, but not posted since it seemed inaccurate. Posted now because other sites have picked up on it and reporting it as truth.

arn

[johnnyjibbs]

That date must just have been plucked out of thin air by Amazon. Can't imagine Apple would be too please though - it could potentially prevent people from buying Macs in February and early March, as people will not want to shell out for a computer knowing that a new OS costing $129 will be imminent.

[nesbitt_a]

On a Wednesday??!

[Poff]

That date must just have been plucked out of thin air by Amazon. Can't imagine Apple would be too please though - it could potentially prevent people from buying Macs in February and early March, as people will not want to shell out for a computer knowing that a new OS costing $129 will be imminent.

They did provide a free upgrade path to Panther for those had bought it withing a couple of months before the release. Many people probably don't know that, tho..

[Toe]

And shouldn't this be Page 2? Amazon posting a release date before Apple doesn't sound like a real solid rumor.
MacCentral (http://www.macworld.com/news/2004/10/15/tiger/), or whatever it's called today, posted this as a big story.

Personally, I think Apple is going to "release" it at MWSF if at all possible... and even if it doesn't ship for a month or two after that.

[dotnina]

That date must just have been plucked out of thin air by Amazon. Can't imagine Apple would be too please though - it could potentially prevent people from buying Macs in February and early March, as people will not want to shell out for a computer knowing that a new OS costing $129 will be imminent.

Wouldn't Apple offer a free upgrade for those people who buy a new Mac when an OS upgrade is imminent? Or am I thinking of another software maker? :confused:

Amazon is usually on the ball with release dates. I'm thinking Apple gave Amazon that information ... but why? It seems early for pre-orders.

[MikeTheC]

Well, in any event, the sooner the better.

[Toe]

can't wait to shell out another $129 to help Apple's profit margins.

Dude... Windows XP costs $300!! (http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?ProductID=310332)

With each 10.x release of OS X, Apple includes a TON of new features, new applications, and improvements. I think it's a downright deal.

[AmigoMac]

Another retread of a post from days ago on Macrumors.
2 Days ago!
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=92902&highlight=tiger+release

Maybe you can give us a better idea... ;) :p

[Steamboatwillie]

My bet is January '05

I seriously doubt that Amazon has any real release date. I called my rep at CDW and he had no tentative date for Tiger.

[MacsRgr8]

Isn't March 31st exactly half-way first half of the year?

I bet this is simple speculation on Amazon's part...
(conversation somewhere at Amazon):

"Let's make it pre-order available now!"
"uh... ok... when?"
"eh... when is it really expected?
"Apple says first half 2005"
"well.... pick the date exactly half-way. Least chance of having it wrong by so many days"
"ok.. uh.. right"

[johnnyjibbs]

They did provide a free upgrade path to Panther for those had bought it withing a couple of months before the release. Many people probably don't know that, tho..
There was an upgrade path but only when it was announced, a mere 3 weeks before Panther was released (Announced on 8th Oct, released on 24th). I'm saying that Mac sales may dry up in February because people may think that Apple will "announce" Tiger on, say 10th March, with up-to-date applying from then with the release on 31st March, whether this is true or not. People will still be hanging on just in case Apple's official annoucement (and up-to-date scheme) is just around the corner.

[jimsowden]

yeah... was submitted a few days ago, but not posted since it seemed inaccurate. Posted now because other sites have picked up on it and reporting it as truth.

arn
What? They both say exactly the same thing, and that is that amazon is listing a date. Credibility is yet to be seen.
By the way, great to see you back Arn!

[NovacaineX]

windows xp = $300
total = $300

mac os x 10.0 = $129
mac os x 10.1 = free
mac os x 10.2 = $129
mac os x 10.3 = $129
mac os x 10.4 = $129
total = $516

hmm...
they do include more features, but i certainly dont consider it a good deal.

[johnnyjibbs]

windows xp = $300
total = $300

mac os x 10.0 = $129
mac os x 10.1 = free
mac os x 10.2 = $129
mac os x 10.3 = $129
mac os x 10.4 = $129
total = $516

hmm...
they do include more features, but i certainly dont consider it a good deal.
This is always talked about. The problem with Mac OS X is that its pricing structure is not that fair. For example, you could be with it, supporting it the whole time, and have paid the $516 you quoted. However, OS 9 users (or new Mac users) can jump straight in at 10.4 and get it all for just $129. Now, you could say that you have to pay for the priviledge of using Mac OS X since 2001, which I agree with, but surely not that much? I think a fairer solution would be to offer Tiger (10.4) for $49 or $59 to anyone who has Panther (10.3) and, say $89 or $99 for anyone who has Jaguar (10.2). Users with any other operating system would then have to purchase for $129.

[fartheststar]

My bet is January '05


I heard that from a re-seller of apple products too. Not that that means anything... but...

The problem with Mac OS X is that its pricing structure is not that fair. For example, you could be with it, supporting it the whole time, and have paid the $516 you quoted. However, OS 9 users (or new Mac users) can jump straight in at 10.4 and get it all for just $129. Now, you could say that you have to pay for the priviledge of using Mac OS X since 2001, which I agree with, but surely not that much? I think a fairer solution would be to offer Tiger (10.4) for $49 or $59 to anyone who has Panther (10.3) and, say $89 or $99 for anyone who has Jaguar (10.2). Users with any other operating system would then have to purchase for $129.

This is where I have to disagree. Too bad that you paid $129 for panther, but you have to cough it up for Tiger. You want the upgrade, then you must pay. It's only $129. Hey, I bought a G4 2 months before Panther and because it wasn't a G5 I would have had to pay $129 for the upgrade to panther.

I chose not to upgrade.... but that was my choice. It is your choice whether you want to upgrade or not.... and if you don't want to, fine. But if you do, $129 is not a lot to ask for all these new features.

[aswitcher]

Well I hope they keep supporting the family 3 pack licence...

[arn]

What? They both say exactly the same thing, and that is that amazon is listing a date. Credibility is yet to be seen.
By the way, great to see you back Arn!

I'm saying it is NOT credible.

I didn't post it because it was just a garbage date that Amazon posted. Other sites are reporting it as a "real" date, so I posted this to express my doubt that this date represents anything other than speculaiton.

arn

[dizastor]

Dude... Windows XP costs $300!! (http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?ProductID=310332)



Dude!!! Windows XP doesn't run on my Mac.

[MacSlut]

This rumor should be killed.

Amazon usually does enter made-up dates for coming products. It could be before or after their made-up date (personally I'm guessing before).

The other *huge* red flag is that they're predicting a *ship* date that's like half a year from now. That just doesn't happen with software like this. You can *estimate* that the OS will ship in some point in time (like 1Q or 1H), but you won't really know it's Gold Master until you've thoroughly built and tested a Release Candidate. Once the RC achieves GM status, you end up with 2-4 weeks before shipping starts.

In other words, guestimates turn into estimates going 6 months to 3 months, and turn into announcements at about the 1 month mark before release.

[mainemike]

Well, I looked up Tiger on Amazon and I do not see a release date of any kind. Only mentions that the item is "not in stock or has been discontinued". Perhaps it was an error that has since been corrected.

[Windowlicker]

march 31st sounds ok.. especially when I'm fine with Panther. Tiger will surely amaze me, but unlike with Jaguar, I have no intentions of touching beta releases just because of curiosity. Tiger will be out eventually and that day will be the day when I have my money ready.

[wordmunger]

According to this post (http://www.boingboing.net/2004/10/15/mac_os_x_104_tiger_o.html), you can get Tiger used on Amazon for $11.95, shipped in 1-2 days! Better act quickly before time runs out :rolleyes:

[mainemike]

According to this post (http://www.boingboing.net/2004/10/15/mac_os_x_104_tiger_o.html), you can get Tiger used on Amazon for $11.95, shipped in 1-2 days! Better act quickly before time runs out :rolleyes:

I saw that too.
It's already vanished into thin air.

[Zaty]

It would be a terrible mistake if Apple had already decided on a definite release date. They should announce and release Tiger when it's ready otherwise they would risk having to ship an unfinished and buggy OS.

[mainemike]

I think a fairer solution would be to offer Tiger (10.4) for $49 or $59 to anyone who has Panther (10.3) and, say $89 or $99 for anyone who has Jaguar (10.2). Users with any other operating system would then have to purchase for $129.

I agree.
Even though I have faithfully shelled out $129 per upgrade going back to Jaguar, I have always felt that there should be an upgrade path for dedicated users at a lower price point.
Having said that, I'll buy Tiger when it is released.

[Toe]

windows xp = $300
total = $300

mac os x 10.0 = $129
mac os x 10.1 = free
mac os x 10.2 = $129
mac os x 10.3 = $129
mac os x 10.4 = $129
total = $516

hmm...
they do include more features, but i certainly dont consider it a good deal.
GarageBand
iPhoto
iMovie
iDVD
Mail
iCal
Spotlight
Dashboard
Automator
...and so on...

How many of these come with XP? How much would you have to pay to get similar functionality? I know a few you could get freeware analogues of, but for most, the alternatives on the Windows side are crap to nonexistent.

And when you paid $129 for OS X 10.0, how existent was XP? You might have bought Windows ME, then 2000, then XP. Then how much money would you have wasted on a horrible, virus-ridden, bug-fest?

[ijimk]

Awesome i cant' wait to trythat new spot light feature and see what else apple has thrown into it. I hope they added more OS colors to the already aqua and grey. :)

[Porchland]

MacCentral (http://www.macworld.com/news/2004/10/15/tiger/), or whatever it's called today, posted this as a big story.

Personally, I think Apple is going to "release" it at MWSF if at all possible... and even if it doesn't ship for a month or two after that.

That makes a lot of sense. MWSF is the big event during the first half of the year, and Apple can cut themselves a lot of latitude on the release date. That said, if the big ta-da of MWSF is Tiger, what about the color iPod?

The iPod mini was announced at MWSF this year, so that would be the logical place to announce the color iPod. We'll know soon; if iPod is going to make the color iPod available for Christmas sales, Apple would want to have it on the market in the next few weeks.

As far as March 31 as the actual release date: The date sounds logical insofar as its the last day of the quarter; all of Apple's Tiger sales could then be cleanly tracked by quarter.

[smorr]

windows xp = $300
total = $300

mac os x 10.0 = $129
mac os x 10.1 = free
mac os x 10.2 = $129
mac os x 10.3 = $129
mac os x 10.4 = $129
total = $516

hmm...
they do include more features, but i certainly dont consider it a good deal.

hmmmm....
Mac OS X 10.2: $258 (if OS X 10.0 + 10.2) == Windows XP $300 + Antivirus Software ($50) + Firewall software ($50) + Several dozens bottles of Tylenol ($100)+ time spent dealing with problems (countless): $500+

Mac OS X 10.3: $129 (2003) == Long(wait)horn (expected sometime later this decade) ($???)
Mac OS X 10.4: $129 (Early 2005) == Even Longer (wait) Horn XP 2012 ($???)

Considering the state of the OSes, 10.4 will be WAY AHEAD of the next couple of versions of the crud that Microsh*t turns out., I'd say that over a 5 year period, $516 is a bargain and well worth the price.

[Toe]

I'd say that over a 5 year period, $516 is a bargain and well worth the price.
That comes out to $8.60 a month (assuming you started at 10.0/1 and bought every upgrade at full price).

How does that compare to just the maintenance fees for keeping Windows anti-virus software up-to-date?

[AdamR01]

GarageBand
iPhoto
iMovie
iDVD
Mail
iCal
Spotlight
Dashboard
Automator
...and so on...

How many of these come with XP? How much would you have to pay to get similar functionality? I know a few you could get freeware analogues of, but for most, the alternatives on the Windows side are crap to nonexistent.

And when you paid $129 for OS X 10.0, how existent was XP? You might have bought Windows ME, then 2000, then XP. Then how much money would you have wasted on a horrible, virus-ridden, bug-fest?

Well considering GarageBand and iMovie and some of those programs came with iLife, why would they be coming with the new os?

[aswitcher]

I agree.
Even though I have faithfully shelled out $129 per upgrade going back to Jaguar, I have always felt that there should be an upgrade path for dedicated users at a lower price point.
Having said that, I'll buy Tiger when it is released.

I am hoping they do a deal for .Mac users. Buy Tiger and register it, get $XX off your next .Mac renewal...

[yg17]

Normally I would have a hard time justifying the cost of $129 almost every year, but since Im a student and can get it for around $70, or whatever the edu price is, then it isnt so bad. And you can bet I'll preorder it the second they announce it, I did with Panther and I will with Tiger

[Toe]

Well considering GarageBand and iMovie and some of those programs came with iLife, why would they be coming with the new os?
IIRC, that's what they usually do. 10.3 contains versions of programs that were previously only available for a fee to 10.2 users, ala iChat AV and the previous version of iLife.

[wdlove]

Whether this is true or not it is still fun to speculate, as shown by number of posts already. Either way will probably will know for sure at MWSF '05. I'm really hoping that Steve will have a "Tiger Release Party." They are loads of fun and recently with great specials.

[Lloyd1994]

Oh I hope it comes out before I graduate in June. UO (http://www.uobookstore.com/electronics/panther.cfm) has a site license and its a $15 media fee for an upgrade for any student/teacher/faculty. :D

[Toe]

Oh I hope it comes out before I graduate in June. UO (http://www.uobookstore.com/electronics/panther.cfm) has a site license and its a $15 media fee for an upgrade for any student/teacher/faculty. :D
Sorry to be a downer, but the license (http://micro.uoregon.edu/macosx/licensing/index.html) says "Current University of Oregon students, faculty and staff are eligible to use software under this site license."

I believe that implies that once you graduate, you will no longer be licensed to use the covered software. :(

[swissmann]

The timing seems about right to me. I am still waiting for something in Tiger to wow me enough to put out the $129.

[jdechko]

Sorry to be a downer, but the license (http://micro.uoregon.edu/macosx/licensing/index.html) says "Current University of Oregon students, faculty and staff are eligible to use software under this site license."

I believe that implies that once you graduate, you will no longer be licensed to use the covered software. :(

which is why he said he hopes it comes out before june when he graduates... it sounds like hes in a similar boat like me... load up and buy all the software you can afford at student prices before your student discount expires via graduation... :D

[AidenShaw]

Dude... Windows XP costs $300!! (http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.aspx?ProductID=310332)

Look here - Windows XP for $89.95 (http://www.centralcomputer.com/products.asp?pline=SOPEM) when purchased with hardware (such as a disk).

That's for XP Home, which is all that most home users could possibly need.

For XP Pro, the price is $143.95 for the OEM version.

And the Service Packs are free.... ;)

[Nermal]

You can't really compare an OEM version of XP with a non-OEM version of OS X.

[BWhaler]

A few thoughts:

1. I hope Apple takes their time with Tiger. Since it is going to be the last major upgrade to OSX for the next couple of years, I hope they load in the features and make an insanely great OS. March or June really doesn't matter. Features, security, speed do.

2. It is soooo annoying that every time there is an article about the next version of OSX, we get hundreds of posts about the $129 subscription fee.

People need to grow up.

When Quicken comes out with a new version every year, do you complain?
Adobe?
Microsoft?
When Apple releases a new iPod do you think you have to buy it as part of a subscription fee? No, your current iPod still works

Buy it if you want it. It's really that simple.As gets pointed out each and every time people start complaining, you can still use OS7 if you want.

Plus, adding up the costs of each and every version to prove it is more expensive than Windows is pathetic. So Apple is an innovative company and updates their OS faster than MS. So what? That's bad? And what would you prefer: Apple to be more like MS and give you an update ever 4 years? With each new version being slower than the previous one?

You would kill for the OPTION of paying 129 for a faster, richer OS every 12-18 months.

[AidenShaw]

You can't really compare an OEM version of XP with a non-OEM version of OS X.

Why not?

The only thing different about the OEM version of XP is the price, it's exactly the same operating system.

You don't even have to be an OEM to legitimately purchase the OEM version - all you need to do is buy the OEM kit on the same order as a major piece of hardware (disk, CPU, mobo,...).

Had you said "you can't compare XP with OS X" - that's something that's in the religious/political arena. Let's not go there.

The "OEM" part of your statement, though, adds no value - there's no distinction to the OEM version of XP, and there's no OEM version of OS X.

My point is simply that the discussion should use a realistic price, not a list price that nobody needs to pay. You and I can buy the full version of XP Pro *and* a 160 GB disk for less than the list price.

ps: My kitty likes your kitty!

[Lloyd1994]

which is why he said he hopes it comes out before june when he graduates... it sounds like hes in a similar boat like me... load up and buy all the software you can afford at student prices before your student discount expires via graduation... :D

Thanks for backing me up jdechko :D If the deal is there and the University will pay for it, why not use it?

[Mainyehc]

GarageBand
iPhoto
iMovie
iDVD
Mail
iCal
Spotlight
Dashboard
Automator
...and so on...


iLife DOES NOT come bundled with Mac OS X!! I know for sure that if I buy Tiger next year I'll probably stick with the iLife '04 that came with my new iMac G5... I'll probably skip iLife '05 and buy the '06 version... Too bad Apple wants us to shell out an extra €50 or whatever for iLife... :( Including iLife in every release of OS X would certainly make it a VERY compelling purchase!
IIRC, that's what they usually do. 10.3 contains versions of programs that were previously only available for a fee to 10.2 users, ala iChat AV and the previous version of iLife.
Or.... Am I completely wrong on this one?? If so, please explain me what Apple does about iLife versions... I wasn't actually aware of this :o

[gunthian]

I've been waiting on a book to get released for the last three years. Amazon's had a pub date listed for it for at least two years now, even though the author still hasn't even finished writing it and doesn't know himself when he'll be done. Amazon's release dates are entirely made up...

[~Shard~]

Nice to see a date for Tiger, although I am still not convinced it is worth the upgrade from Panther for myself. Guess I'll wait and see when all of its features are announced whether or not I'll bite the bullet. Probably will in the end, damn you Apple... ;)

I don't know if the Amazon date can be taken as exact, as they have gotten things wrong before and have been inaccurate, however their dates always seem to be close, so if Amazon is saying the end of March, then I doubt the release date will be in July or something like that - no doubt this is a decent estimate.

[dizastor]

AppleInsider posts an update... Amazon has now pulled the release date on their website.... Apple Legal waving their magic wand?

Steve throws a temper tantrum and pulls all Apple products from Amazon...
Takes Apples cash reserves and starts Applezon.com... take that!

[macridah]

a little later than i thought. I was hoping that it would be announced early january and release in feb. ... that cool though ... at least it's not going to be released during the next WWDC in june.

[~Shard~]

a little later than i thought. I was hoping that it would be announced early january and release in feb. ... that cool though ... at least it's not going to be released during the next WWDC in june.

This was actually a little earlier than I thought. Knowing Steve, I thought he'd want to milk it for all it's worth and cram as many features, etc., into Tiger before releasing it. Since he said it would be released "in the first half of 2005", I thought we'd see it more like June 30th. ;) But, this is great news if it indeed will be earlier - guess we'll see...

[mainemike]

It is soooo annoying that every time there is an article about the next version of OSX, we get hundreds of posts about the $129 subscription fee.

People need to grow up.

When Quicken comes out with a new version every year, do you complain?
Adobe?
Microsoft?


I think your argument is faulty because the companies you are citing offer lower price point upgrade paths for previous software users. When I buy an upgrade to Photoshop or MS Word, I'm paying quite a bit less than someone who buys the software for the first time. It makes good business SENSE.
You reward customer loyalty and continue the growth with future "rewards".
Apple does not do this with OSX.

As I stated earlier, I'll buy Tiger at the $129 price, I'm not kidding myself.
But do I feel that Apple could do better for dedicated Mac afficianados?
Yes, I do. And all of the pro-corporate cheerleading in the world will not change my mind. Apple is a cool company; some of us see tiny cracks that could be filled to make it even cooler.
Deal with it.

[SiliconAddict]

You can't really compare an OEM version of XP with a non-OEM version of OS X.


So? An OEM version is no diff from a one purchased directly from MS.

[~Shard~]

I think your argument is faulty because the companies you are citing offer lower price point upgrade paths for previous software users. When I buy an upgrade to Photoshop of MS Word, I'm paying quite a bit less than someone who buys the software for the first time. It makes good business SENSE.
You reward customer loyalty and continue the growth with future "rewards".
Apple does not do this with OSX.

As I stated earlier, I'll buy Tiger at the $129 price, I'm not kidding myself.
But do I feel that Apple could do better for dedicated Mac afficianados?
Yes, I do. And all of the pro-corporate cheerleading in the world will not change my mind. Apple is a cool company; some of us see tiny cracks that could be filled to make it even cooler.
Deal with it.

Agreed - there are always faults and weaknesses even with great companies such as Apple, and always room for improvement - people should not blindly follow what they do and never question their actions, decisions and practices. I think asking for $129 every single year for an OS upgrade is a little bit on the high side, although I'm not complaining. I would like to see either a price break/upgrade path for current users of Panther, a lower price in general, or more time between upgrades like this instead of every year. (That's a tough call too though, since it's nice to get frequent updates as soon as Apple's engineers have them ready to go.)

I am very happy with Panther, and I do not see myself buying Tiger as it stands right now simply because I have only been using Panther for less than a year and don't have a pressing urge to upgrade, let alone for $129! I'm thinking I might just wait for 10.5 Lion or 10.6 Norwegian Forest Cat. :cool:

[frozenstar]

iLife DOES NOT come bundled with Mac OS X!! I know for sure that if I buy Tiger next year I'll probably stick with the iLife '04 that came with my new iMac G5... I'll probably skip iLife '05 and buy the '06 version... Too bad Apple wants us to shell out an extra €50 or whatever for iLife... :( Including iLife in every release of OS X would certainly make it a VERY compelling purchase!

Or.... Am I completely wrong on this one?? If so, please explain me what Apple does about iLife versions... I wasn't actually aware of this :o

Every new release of Mac OS X includes the latest version of every iLife application. So, yes, you're wrong.

[Zaty]

Every new release of Mac OS X includes the latest version of every iLife application. So, yes, you're wrong.

First, it used to include what is now iLife. Secondly, iDVD was never included. My point is, since iLife '04 carried a $49 for everyone who didn't buy a new Mac, there's a good chance iLife '05, or whatever the next version of the suite will be called, will remain a separate set of software, although Apple will continue to include it with new Macs. However, Apple might offer a bundle (Tiger + iLife 05) for $149 or something. (They're already running a similar promotion with Panther + iLife 04)

Wouldn't Apple make their customers angry if they released and sold iLife 05 in January for $49 and then include in Tiger shipping in March/April?

[aswitcher]

First, it used to include what is now iLife. Secondly, iDVD was never included. My point is, since iLife '04 carried a $49 for everyone who didn't buy a new Mac, there's a good chance iLife '05, or whatever the next version of the suite will be called, will remain a separate set of software, although Apple will continue to include it with new Macs. However, Apple might offer a bundle (Tiger + iLife 05) for $149 or something. (They're already running a similar promotion with Panther + iLife 04)

Wouldn't Apple make their customers angry if they released and sold iLife 05 in January for $49 and then include in Tiger shipping in March/April?

I see your reasoning but I do hope they bundle both...infact with Tiger you may require iLife 05'...

[Benj]

Thanks for backing me up jdechko :D If the deal is there and the University will pay for it, why not use it?

Guys - if the licence allows students to use it, once you are no longer a student you can't. You need your own or you will be infringing.

[Linh_My]

Why not?

The only thing different about the OEM version of XP is the price, it's exactly the same operating system.



Not quite true. The OEM serial number is tied to your Motherboard and can not be moved to another mother board. I had this fact drilled into my head at a MS systembuilder briefing. MS's official position is that if you wish to be able to upgrade the motherboard, you must either buy the full retail version or buy a new copy of the OEM version. XP is timebomed so that it will fail to load if not officialy registered. :D

[AidenShaw]

Not quite true. The OEM serial number is tied to your Motherboard and can not be moved to another mother board. I had this fact drilled into my head at a MS systembuilder briefing. MS's official position is that if you wish to be able to upgrade the motherboard, you must either buy the full retail version or buy a new copy of the OEM version. XP is timebomed so that it will fail to load if not officialy registered. :D

You are describing activation policy. This does not require that the bits on-disk be any different - it just requires that the activation servers at Microsoft recognize which serial numbers are OEM packages.

But yes, you've described a difference between the two versions of XP.

On the other hand, is there much of a practical difference between that and Apple's licensing policy?

If you upgrade the motherboard on a Mac, you have to buy a new copy of OS X.

If you buy a single copy of OS X, policy doesn't allow you to install it on two computers.

If you sell your old Mac, you should wipe its disk clean (delete OS X, or reinstall the OS X disks that came with the old computer) if you intend to install your copy of OS X on your new computer.


ps: Actually, XP will continue to load even if not activated. You can't login, but it will pop up the "activate now" panel even after the "time-bomb" goes off. Minor point.

[virus1]

Pardon me, but so what? We are months away and we know the general timeframe of the release... I fail to see why this was put on page one...

Also, i personally see no point in tiger right now. i currently have the developers release from wwdc and it has no major improvements worth using. My files are organized enough that i don't need spotlight...

[billyboy]

Overall MS have $7bn a year compared to Apple's $0.5bn for R+D. I know where Id rather stick my $129 contributions for a value for money computing experience.

It is the likes of "suckers" like me and most posters here paying $129 a year subscription that has enabled Apple to develop the OS so quickly and so well over the last three years. The reward for supporting OS X thus far is going to be Tiger, (whenever it appears next year) which will probably be the best OS Apple can offer for a good couple of years, and will be probably be ahead of MS next great offering for rather more than two years.

When you think how much innovation Apple has brought to the table with such a paltry sum, the $129´s have been excellent value for money - and no doubt, with no need to be buying an OSX upgrade every year after Tiger, Apple will be tempting us to carry on paying our annual $129 with offerings of other embryonic killer lines they want to make into the best of class.

[~Shard~]

Pardon me, but so what? We are months away and we know the general timeframe of the release... I fail to see why this was put on page one...

It was put on page 1 because some people find it more important than you obviously do. Just because you don't care doesn't mean others don't. If you don't care, then why even bother reading and posting in this thread? :confused:

Also, i personally see no point in tiger right now. i currently have the developers release from wwdc and it has no major improvements worth using. My files are organized enough that i don't need spotlight...

Good for you. However different people have different needs and requirements for functionality, etc., and just because you don't see value in it does not mean, as you have objectively stated, "it has no major improvements worth using". Your statement is incorrect - you've turned a subjective opinion into an objective statement - Tiger, to many people, does have major improvements worth using, as many people here will tell you. Some find value in it, some don't - but please don't state that it has nothing worth using.

So if you don't want it, fine, don't buy it, no one is forcing you to.

[JJTiger1]

This is always talked about. The problem with Mac OS X is that its pricing structure is not that fair. For example, you could be with it, supporting it the whole time, and have paid the $516 you quoted. However, OS 9 users (or new Mac users) can jump straight in at 10.4 and get it all for just $129. Now, you could say that you have to pay for the priviledge of using Mac OS X since 2001, which I agree with, but surely not that much? I think a fairer solution would be to offer Tiger (10.4) for $49 or $59 to anyone who has Panther (10.3) and, say $89 or $99 for anyone who has Jaguar (10.2). Users with any other operating system would then have to purchase for $129.

Once upon a time: Apple actually let you update an OS that you bought, at a reduced price if you used an Apple Software Proof-of-Purchase coupon from the sheet of coupons that is included with your purchase of the Retail OS installer CD's.

This has happened with OS 8.5, 8.6 and 9.0.
... I have a coupon missing from the coupon sheets for each of those OS's.

I think that the upgrading from older OSX to Tiger would be an excellent opportunity for Apple to do the right thing for the Apple Faithful by honoring an Apple Software Proof-of-Purchase coupon thus allowing a discount on the purchase of the latest OS. :)
=-=
JJ

[Ambrose Chapel]

I think that the upgrading from older OSX to Tiger would be an excellent opportunity for Apple to do the right thing for the Apple Faithful by honoring an Apple Software Proof-of-Purchase coupon thus allowing a discount on the purchase of the latest OS. :)
=-=
JJ

i agree...i almost certainly won't be upgrading to tiger...based on what they've announced so far there isn't much that makes it compelling for me. if they offered an upgrade price, otoh, i'd take a much harder look at it.

[morrisonjd]

This was first reported on Mac Rumor Mill, http://www.macrumormill.com

They have a screen shot of the original Amazon Tiger page. Amazon has since changed it on their site. So much for it not being reliable information.

[Toe]

Why not?

The only thing different about the OEM version of XP is the price, it's exactly the same operating system.

You don't even have to be an OEM to legitimately purchase the OEM version - all you need to do is buy the OEM kit on the same order as a major piece of hardware (disk, CPU, mobo,...).
WHich raises your overall price to...?

The point is technically OEM is for bundling with a new PC. If you're comparing that to OS X... then OS X is free with purchase of a new Mac. iLife 04 too.

[wdlove]

Pardon me, but so what? We are months away and we know the general timeframe of the release... I fail to see why this was put on page one...

Also, i personally see no point in tiger right now. i currently have the developers release from wwdc and it has no major improvements worth using. My files are organized enough that i don't need spotlight...

Have you kept up with release updates since then? There are bound to be some worthwhile items. Sounds like we won't see another major update until later in 2006.

[rickvanr]

There was an upgrade path but only when it was announced, a mere 3 weeks before Panther was released (Announced on 8th Oct, released on 24th). I'm saying that Mac sales may dry up in February because people may think that Apple will "announce" Tiger on, say 10th March, with up-to-date applying from then with the release on 31st March, whether this is true or not. People will still be hanging on just in case Apple's official annoucement (and up-to-date scheme) is just around the corner.

even if this is true, wouldnt sales take off and compensate if the only people aren't buying are waiting for the new OS?

[AidenShaw]

WHich raises your overall price to...?

Retail upgrade kit for $105 - http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=37-116-194&depa=6

On the other hand, if you also need to do a disk upgrade the OEM kit plus a 160GB disk is around $150.

The point is technically OEM is for bundling with a new PC. If you're comparing that to OS X... then OS X is free with purchase of a new Mac. iLife 04 too.

And XP is just as free with a new PC, as well as the other bundled stuff like video and DVD writing software....
____________________________________


My point is simply that the original poster found someplace selling XP for $300 - whereas I found it for less than a third of that price. The original post was about as honest as GWB....

[MetallicPenguin]

I don't think that the release date is real (Amazon usually isn't right for these sorts of things), but that sounds like a nice release date. With a little luck, Apple's real release date will be that or earlier.

And shouldn't this be Page 2? Amazon posting a release date before Apple doesn't sound like a real solid rumor.

Not sure if this is mentioned, but isn't April 1st Apple's birthday?

[aswitcher]

Not sure if this is mentioned, but isn't April 1st Apple's birthday?

:) Good call.

[ioinc]

GarageBand
iPhoto
iMovie
iDVD
Mail
iCal
Spotlight
Dashboard
Automator
...and so on...

How many of these come with XP? How much would you have to pay to get similar functionality? I know a few you could get freeware analogues of, but for most, the alternatives on the Windows side are crap to nonexistent.

And when you paid $129 for OS X 10.0, how existent was XP? You might have bought Windows ME, then 2000, then XP. Then how much money would you have wasted on a horrible, virus-ridden, bug-fest?

Do you really use ALL these things? Half of them? Do you use ALL of them to the extent that you can really justify paying $129 for them?

Are the programs really so much better than 3rd party alternatives? (how much more can you get from a mail client anyway?)

I like apple as much as the next guy... but don't be blinded by the light.

[MetallicPenguin]

Do you really use ALL these things? Half of them? Do you use ALL of them to the extent that you can really justify paying $129 for them?

Are the programs really so much better than 3rd party alternatives? (how much more can you get from a mail client anyway?)

I like apple as much as the next guy... but don't be blinded by the light.

Well, I use iPhoto, not as much as some people; I don't go to many places and I don't have a good camera at the moment. I don't use iCal, but I would if I weren't a student. I use iTunes a lot, it's a great app. Mail is great, I really like the spam blocking thing, etc. iChat is good, but I stopped chatting a while back; my brother is now in college so I talk to him sometimes. Safari is my favorite browser.

Spotlight is going to be very useful; my dad has been dealing with a lot of stuff for a book, all in pdf's; it would have helped a lot. Dashboard looks cool, so does Automator. GarageBand I get into every once in a while, and iDVD I don't use, but could if I ever shot some video.

There are many other apps and features as well, I just can't remember them...


I'd say all of that, combined with the great looks of the product inside and outside, the unique service, etc. is worth the $129. Whether or not they should release these OS's every single year is a whole other story; looks like they are beginning to spread them out further already.

[Toe]

Do you really use ALL these things? Half of them? Do you use ALL of them to the extent that you can really justify paying $129 for them?You bet. I don't use them all, but I use iPhoto extensively, GarageBand a little, and am just starting to use iMovie and iDVD. I think they're so valuable, I was willing to pay a good sum for just an upgrade to them (iLife 04).

Are the programs really so much better than 3rd party alternatives? (how much more can you get from a mail client anyway?)Oh heck yeah! Every time I show iPhoto to a Winderz user, they start to think that maybe they should get a Mac. I don't know if I'd really use my digital camera if it weren't for iPhoto.

GarageBand... that's worth a heck of a lot more than $129. Spend another $100 on a USB music keyboard, and you have the value of a $1,000+ synthesizer. I've never seen another app with that much functionality for so little.

iMovie and iDVD? The third party alternatives simply do not compare.

iCal I use throughout my company for its excellent calendar sharing. I could use Up-To-Date if I were willing to pay a chunk of cash for each user for it instead. Or I could use Palm for free, but not be able to share calendars.

I'm really looking forward to Automator. The only 3rd party app I know of that's similar is QuickKeys, and it ain't close to free.

There are plenty of free alternatives to iChat, but in the Windows world, they are full of viruses. And iChat AV has stayed ahead of the competition in its feature set.

Yeah, I think that's a heck of a lot of value for $130 (not to mention the killer improvements to the OS itself... the Mobile Home Directories (http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/tiger/) feature in Tiger/Tiger Server is going to really revolutionize the way my company works). And no, I don't think 3rd party alternatives come close (in the above cases... you can however make a good case for alts to Safari and Mail).

[wdlove]

Do you really use ALL these things? Half of them? Do you use ALL of them to the extent that you can really justify paying $129 for them?

Are the programs really so much better than 3rd party alternatives? (how much more can you get from a mail client anyway?)

I like apple as much as the next guy... but don't be blinded by the light.

I have often found with my Macs they when new software becomes available they start to become buggy. In my case will need the family pack since I have more than one Mac.

[AdamR01]

You can't really compare an OEM version of XP with a non-OEM version of OS X.

Why not? Thats what most people buy.

[JFreak]

stop whining.

point 1: jaguar was the first really usable osx version, so everyone who used pre-jaguar osx versions paid for the experience gained during the early adopter era. nobody bought 10.0 thinking it's a good production system. you just cannot count the price of pre-jaguar osx into the equation, because that was still the classic mac era. os9 was declared dead only after panther release.

point 2: everyone who has bought a computer old enough not having jaguar pre-installed has ADDED VALUE to their hardware purchase by upgrading the operating system. if the tiger runs in such computer, the operating system upgrades have cost 3x$129, which is $387, which is not so much considering a comparable pc (as old as pre-jaguar mac) runs current windows very slowly whereas an old imac still runs osx great. thinking this way, the operating system isn't so expensive.

point 3: you get an operating system and an ilife bundled with every apple computer purhcase. if you haven't bought a computer while jaguar/panther has been out, you are surely due buying one after tiger has been released. if you really think that osx costs +$500, then the "cheapest mac money can buy" should look like a killer deal for you. the emac only costs $799 and includes the latest operating system.

remember, apple is a hardware company. apple encourages you to buy hardware, and therefore the os upgrades don't come free.

[AidenShaw]

which is not so much considering a comparable pc (as old as pre-jaguar mac) runs current windows very slowly whereas an old imac still runs osx great.

A "pre-jaguar" PC could be a 2.53 GHz Pentium 4, 512KiB cache with 533 MHz bus. (The "pre-jaguar" iBook was 700MHz G3, the PB was 800 MHz G4.)

The current PC even back when OS X 10.1 was released was up to 2.0 GHz Pentium 4, 256KiB cache, 400 MHz bus. Note that XP started shipping within a month or so of 10.1, so a "10.1 era" PC runs "current Windows". (Both 'Books were at 500 MHz.)


I don't see how anyone could honestly claim that a 2 GHz P4 runs XP "very slowly", and a 500 MHz G3 with 8 MiB of VRAM "runs osx great"....
________________________

Sources:
Intel CPU release dates (http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/quickreffam.htm#p4Desk)
Mac release dates (http://www.apple-history.com/frames/?)

[Kairy]

does anyone know how much DVDs come with Tiger installation, and what is the recent build ?

[AdamR01]

I don't see how anyone could honestly claim that a 2 GHz P4 runs XP "very slowly", and a 500 MHz G3 with 8 MiB of VRAM "runs osx great"....

If all you've ever used was a mac, I could see saying that. It kind of reminds me of an article I read on Anandtech. http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2232 "Simple things like bolding a word are ever so slightly slower under Office for the Mac than under Windows; you wouldn't notice it if your first experience with Office was on the Mac, but coming from a Windows user's perspective, it can drive you crazy."

[ioinc]

...
There are many other apps and features as well, I just can't remember them...


I'd say all of that, combined with the great looks of the product inside and outside, the unique service, etc. is worth the $129. Whether or not they should release these OS's every single year is a whole other story; looks like they are beginning to spread them out further already.


When you say 'all that' is worth it... are you including the features that are so stellar that you can't remember them? :D

[SiliconAddict]

WHich raises your overall price to...?

The point is technically OEM is for bundling with a new PC. If you're comparing that to OS X... then OS X is free with purchase of a new Mac. iLife 04 too.


No offense dude but you don't know what you are talking about. Do you actually think that Apple doesn't bundle the price of OS X and iLife into the purchase price of a new desktop laptop. If so I have some choice land to sell you in Florida. ;)

As for OEM's. I've purchased an OEM copy of XP Pro for my desktop. I picked up a $5.00 USB cable off of their site as well. This fulfills the requirments of the OEM license.

[Toe]

No offense dude but you don't know what you are talking about. Do you actually think that Apple doesn't bundle the price of OS X and iLife into the purchase price of a new desktop laptop. If so I have some choice land to sell you in Florida. ;)
Comparable Windows laptops (http://www.cdw.com/shop/hubs/default.aspx?HubPage=/hardware/notebooks.html&FC=NB) cost the same as an iBook and have no bundled software worth mentioning. They have Windows, but not anything to compare with the huge suite of apps you get with any Mac or any OS X purchase.

Now maybe you could find some el-generico PC laptop that costs a little less, but generally, iBooks cost a heck of a lot less than Windows laptops if you consider the added value of the apps.

As for OEM's. I've purchased an OEM copy of XP Pro for my desktop. I picked up a $5.00 USB cable off of their site as well. This fulfills the requirments of the OEM license.Now this is where I didn't know what I was talking about. I find it hard to believe Microsoft would ever, ever make such a generous license. That just seems totally unlike them. But then, I suppose they want as much penetration as they can get...

Anyway, I still don't see how any version of Windows can be called comparable to Panther or Tiger. A typewriter costs less than OS X as well....

[AidenShaw]

Anyway, I still don't see how any version of Windows can be called comparable to Panther or Tiger.

That's a valid opinion, but please note that the discussion on this sub-topic is on whether $300 is a reasonable price to quote for a Windows XP kit.

The original poster quoted a "Neiman Marcus" price for an item that's on special at Target every day.

[wdlove]

stop whining.

point 3: you get an operating system and an ilife bundled with every apple computer purchased. if you haven't bought a computer while jaguar/panther has been out, you are surely due buying one after tiger has been released. if you really think that osx costs +$500, then the "cheapest mac money can buy" should look like a killer deal for you. the emac only costs $799 and includes the latest operating system.

remember, apple is a hardware company. apple encourages you to buy hardware, and therefore the os upgrades don't come free.

Your opinion us different from others that I have heard. I bought my Power Mac G4 in September 2000, prior to Mac OS X. That a Mac is well built. reliable, and should last for years. So how much life do you think I have in my G4?

[JFreak]

don't see how anyone could honestly claim that a 2 GHz P4 runs XP "very slowly", and a 500 MHz G3 with 8 MiB of VRAM "runs osx great"....

i had panther installed in a 350MHz iMac (with a fast hard drive and 512MB ram) that handled every task perfectly - including heavy photoshopping - whereas my compaq pc at work (2.4GHz with 2GB ram) only performs well when i don't stress it to the limit, which i often have to do. maybe it tells more about windows than about the hardware in question, but the real-world experience is what counts. the windows system - which would in theory be a lot faster - cannot keep up with me while i work (at above 60% cpu loads), but the iMac just kept on performing no matter what i told it to do.

granted, the work pc is "snappier" with the user interface when i do practically nothing except try to launch a notepad app. but that's really nothing, i don't care if it takes two or three seconds. the real work just cripples the pc to the level that makes the iMac shine.

i know most of you cannot believe it, and in theory it shouldn't be possible. however, i myself don't know if it's windows that should be blamed or the pc hardware, but anyway, the "windows system" just is slower than the "osx system". i hope there are better systems, but i think it's a fair comparison as the iMac also was not the best mac money could buy back then ;)

[JFreak]

Your opinion us different from others that I have heard. I bought my Power Mac G4 in September 2000, prior to Mac OS X. That a Mac is well built. reliable, and should last for years. So how much life do you think I have in my G4?

didn't i say anything about upgrades adding value to the previous purchase? if it runs the current OS, just go for it and don't mind the price. if it doesn't run it as good as the previous, just run the previous and don't whine about the upgrade costing something. you buy what you need and not everything apple releases.

[edenwaith]

Considering how often on-line shops (EB, BestBuy, Amazon) kept changing the release date on Doom 3, I severely doubt there is any grain of truth on Tiger being released on the proposed time by Amazon. Until we start hearing about developer betas and seeds, I imagine we can all just keep waiting "until it's done". And considering a half-finished Longhorn isn't expected out of the gates until 2006, I don't think Apple needs to be overly rushed.

[edenwaith]

i had panther installed in a 350MHz iMac (with a fast hard drive and 512MB ram) that handled every task perfectly - including heavy photoshopping - whereas my compaq pc at work (2.4GHz with 2GB ram) only performs well when i don't stress it to the limit, which i often have to do. maybe it tells more about windows than about the hardware in question, but the real-world experience is what counts. the windows system - which would in theory be a lot faster - cannot keep up with me while i work (at above 60% cpu loads), but the iMac just kept on performing no matter what i told it to do.

granted, the work pc is "snappier" with the user interface when i do practically nothing except try to launch a notepad app. but that's really nothing, i don't care if it takes two or three seconds. the real work just cripples the pc to the level that makes the iMac shine.

i know most of you cannot believe it, and in theory it shouldn't be possible. however, i myself don't know if it's windows that should be blamed or the pc hardware, but anyway, the "windows system" just is slower than the "osx system". i hope there are better systems, but i think it's a fair comparison as the iMac also was not the best mac money could buy back then ;)

Milage will vary. But from my experience, even though Windows 2000 and XP are more stable than 9x, they are still plagued with problems I do not experience with Mac OS X. I've found that Windows XP still has the same problem as Windows 95 where too much crap is installed or uninstalled from a machine, which really can bog down and gum up a machine, leaving the user to either suffer with piss-poor performance or do a clean install. The only clean installs I have ever made on a Mac were with fresh computers and I wanted to partition the hard drive into two drives. I've also seen that Windows 2000 and XP do not have the same level of multi-tasking capabilities that Mac OS X possesses. With OS X, an app can run amok, but the rest of the system goes on just fine. In Windows, if an application goes wild, it will take up 99% or 100% of the system resources, and pretty much bring the system to a halt until the bad application can be killed.

[AidenShaw]

my compaq pc at work (2.4GHz with 2GB ram) only performs well when i don't stress it to the limit...

Is the work PC in a domain, managed by the IT department, with applications on the network?

If so, then it's an apples and oranges comparison with your home Mac....

[~Shard~]

Considering how often on-line shops (EB, BestBuy, Amazon) kept changing the release date on Doom 3, I severely doubt there is any grain of truth on Tiger being released on the proposed time by Amazon. Until we start hearing about developer betas and seeds, I imagine we can all just keep waiting "until it's done".

True, you need to take everything with a grain of salt, however there's a difference between the release of a game, such as Doom 3, and an official OS software release by a company like Apple. I just don't see Apple pushing their dates around on Tiger as much as something like Halo 2 or something.

And considering a half-finished Longhorn isn't expected out of the gates until 2006, I don't think Apple needs to be overly rushed.

Heh heh - Longhorn out of the "Gates" - good one... ;)

[wdlove]

didn't i say anything about upgrades adding value to the previous purchase? if it runs the current OS, just go for it and don't mind the price. if it doesn't run it as good as the previous, just run the previous and don't whine about the upgrade costing something. you buy what you need and not everything apple releases.

I wasn't whinning about the price of upgrading to Tiger, don't mind spending the $129. With a Mac it always seems smart to stay current with software. I was just commenting on the longevity of a Power Mac G4, that is just a little over 4 years old. My wife has concerns about it's remaining life. Don't think I would want to spend too much money on it at this stage.