No PowerBook Updates Before 2005

[sw1tcher]

I want a 17 inch powerbook.

Do I buy now, wait a few weeks or possibly into next year???

I don't want to wait until next year - I want my powerbook now!!!

The way I see it is that Apple have to release a upgrade within a month surely - even if its only a small one.


If you don't want to wait (or can't wait) for updates, then just get it now and enjoy it because there won't be any updates until at least MWSF.

I, on the other hand, can and will wait. There's no need for me to replace a 667Ghz 15" G4 with what's available now. Hoping for something better.

[sw1tcher]

I'd really like a 12" PB (having just switched from Windows, and
using a Dual 2.0 G5 at work and a G5 iMac at home), but I feel like
the price on the 12" PB is way too high now, relative to the 12" iBook.

I hate the idea of buying it now and have a revision come out in
two or three months, since it's not absolutely crucial that I have it
(lots of other new Mac toys to play with)....

If I knew, with certainty,
that no PB revision was coming for 6-8 months, I'd buy now (especially
if the 12" PB price dropped by $300). If I knew with certainty that a
new PB was coming in 2-3 months, I'd happily wait. But not knowing
puts me in limbo.

Apple would be crazy to wait another 6-8 months before updating the PB's. There will certainly be updates to the PB line in 2-3 months since the last updates were made in April.

If there aren't any updates in 2-3 months, then that much mean that there's something BIG is on the way.

All this waiting is driving me crazy! :eek:

[sw1tcher]

There is no need for Apple to rush out and upgrade the PowerBook line.

With the recent updates to the iBook line, there *is* a need for Apple to update the PB line. But I agree with you. They should not rush it. Do it when it's ready. I can wait.

How many people here really plan to buy a new computer in the next 3 months? As an Apple Shareholder I would love to see an accurate show of hands.

If Apple updates the PB line enough in the next 3 months, then I'd be buying at least one.

And to answer Diatribe's question:

"who would want a Rev. A G5 PB?"

I would buy one. And so would many other people who've been waiting.

[gskiser]

How many people here really plan to buy a new computer in the next 3 months? As an Apple Shareholder I would love to see an accurate show of hands.

Well, since you asked. I raise my hand to be counted for that. I have a 466 G3 Clamshell. I don't see any point in buying a current powerbook this late in the current G4's life cycle. Besides, the current FSB is ridiculous. I made the decision 6 months ago that I would by a powerbook as soon as Apple releases a significant update and form factor change (ie...G5 PB, or dual core).

I'm also not concerned about shying away from a Rev A. Yes, they may have trouble, but then again Apple's had trouble and recalls with some of the later ibook & powerbook revisions, so you are never assured a smooth ride. Yes it may be more of a risk, but at the same time your machine will be current and up to date that much longer. I'll buy Applecare with my Rev A and won't give it a second thought.

So, in answer to your question: Yes, I really plan to put down $3,000 the very day Apple releases a new form factor PB with either a G5 or dual core. If they do it in Jan, I'll buy in Jan. If they wait until April, then I won't buy until April. Its up to Apple.

[mypantsaretight]

As someone who switched from desktop macs to laptops with the release of the Pismo, I find this discussion interesting, albeit for different reasons than many of you.

I am curious exactly what it is that you cannot do with your current laptop (or the current laptop models for sale) that you reasonably expect to be able to do with a G5 laptop?

My freaking old 500 MHz Pismo G3 with 256MB of RAM can perform virtually every task that my 15" PB G4 does. It runs the same software, the same OS, etc., and it does so at speeds that are certainly not unusable. In fact, if I compared both computers on the same task, I doubt I would save more than a of handful seconds here and there on certain processor intensive tasks.

So what is it exactly that you whiners are unable to do with the current PB that you expect to be able to do with a slightly faster PB G5???

Stupid non-anwsers include (Please refrain from these and other similarly inane answers should you choose to respond.):
1) Blah blah windows/linux laptop can do x, y, z and I can't. Fine, go buy one. End of story. Count me and Steve Jobs among the people who aren't losing any sleep over it.

2) I want an Alienware/Etc. portable desktop. Duct tape, a monitor, an Xserve and a car battery are your only chances for this. Apple will never release such a model.

3) It's been a long wait. Go for a walk and GET OVER IT.

I suspect most of you just have a major problem with Jonesing rather than a real reason for throwing this unending tantrum.

peace


ps.
Did any of you who are clamoring for an Apple dock-station or a laptop that is designed for use with one ever own that GIANT PIECE OF CRUD that was the duo? That product died for good reasons.

[Army_Punk]

I am currently in Iraq, making some serious bank, and when I get back I plan to buy a maxxed out 17' G5, if they have them out by them. Max RAM, max everything. I still have my original TiBook 500Mhz, bought at MWSF 01, starting to get weak. Can't even play X-Plane or Railroad Tycoon on it anymore. Some of the other guys think I am crazy spending over $4000 on a new PB, when I could get a maxxed out PC for $1500-$2000...but they dont understand. I'll never go over to "that" side. Come on Apple, you have one year before I get back, get to it! Heat sinks be damned!

[~Shard~]

I'm angry. Christmas is on the horizon and this appears to be Apple telling us that once we've bought all the Powerbooks, they're going to give them an update.

No, actually what this means is that Apple isn't ready to update the PowerBooks yet. Do you want another minor speed bump? No, then you would just complain about that instead. So, Apple is no doubt working on a major revision, possibly involving the dual core G4 or the G5 (not as likely). PowerBooks updates will come when they're ready to come. This has nothing to do with "buying all the PowerBooks", do you realize how narrow-focused that statement is?

This doesn't really encourage me to buy a Powerbook. In fact, it really puts me off, BIG time.

The guess what - don't buy a PowerBook - no one is forcing you to. Maybe buy an iBook instead, they're excellent machines and have just been updated.

The only way that Apple can counter this and get my money is if they update SOMETHING on the Powerbooks and I don't mean by dropping the prices. For example, a faster Superdrive, Keynote thrown in, even a token speed hike, a larger harddisk or, best of the lot, BETTER GRAPHICS CARD.

Then I guess you'll be waiting for a while - Apple can't please everyone. I am very curious to hear though what exactly you require a more powerful PowerBook for (the existing ones are very powerful), what volume of burning you do which warrants an 8x SuperDrive over a 4x SuperDrive, how many Keynote presentations you give on a weekly basis for your job, and what pro applications you use which require a better graphics card. Just curious. :cool:

[Furrybeagle]

The PowerBook is fine enough as it is. A Radeon 9700 graphics card, which most people have been complaining is to weak, is not. The processor is fine. Everything is fine.

Apple will release the next model when they can. That's it. If you want to speculate about it, fine. If you want to give your opinions, fine. If you want to talk about what to buy, fine. Just don't kill yourselves over this issue. It's not that big a deal once you look at it in the scope of things. In ten years, I doubt you'll be using your current computer or even your next computer.



...Unless it's a life or death situation, then I'd be very concerned about it.

[~Shard~]

I am currently in Iraq, making some serious bank, and when I get back I plan to buy a maxxed out 17' G5, if they have them out by them.

I sincerely hope you return safely. A friend of my good friend went to Iraq and "made some serious bank", as you put it - $2000 USD/day - and was killed after being there for 5 weeks. It doesn't matter how much money you make if you don't live to spend it. So take care and feel lucky and fortunate when you return, whether there's a G5 PowerBook waiting for you or not. :cool:

[~Shard~]

The PowerBook is fine enough as it is. A Radeon 9700 graphics card, which most people have been complaining is to weak, is not. The processor is fine. Everything is fine.

Thank you - as I said, I wold really like to know how many pro users there are out there who cannot get by with the current 17" PowerBook. I realize there are some, of course, who require more power for very legitimate reasons, but if some people require a lot more power from the PowerBooks, maybe they need to be looking at a desktop instead of a laptop. Either that, or they're not pro users at all and are just little kids who want a better graphics card, more power, etc. etc. for those all-important games. :p :cool:

[drsuse]

Thank you - as I said, I wold really like to know how many pro users there are out there who cannot get by with the current 17" PowerBook. I realize there are some, of course, who require more power for very legitimate reasons, but if some people require a lot more power from the PowerBooks, maybe they need to be looking at a desktop instead of a laptop. Either that, or they're not pro users at all and are just little kids who want a better graphics card, more power, etc. etc. for those all-important games. :p :cool:

i could easily get by with a 17" powerbook; i produced a 20 minute movie for a film festival with fcp3 on a borrowed 600mhz imac with os 9... the only difference is how long it takes to render things.

it's just that i'll need a laptop next fall, and so i'll order whatever's out by june, if something revolutionary comes out before then, then it'll be a little more future proof. i'm hoping to get 6+ years out of it.

[~Shard~]

i could easily get by with a 17" powerbook; i produced a 20 minute movie for a film festival with fcp3 on a borrowed 600mhz imac with os 9... the only difference is how long it takes to render things.

it's just that i'll need a laptop next fall, and so i'll order whatever's out by june, if something revolutionary comes out before then, then it'll be a little more future proof. i'm hoping to get 6+ years out of it.

There will definitely be some sort of update out by June, so you have nothing to worry about. As for lasting you 6+ years, that's an awful long time! But hey, depending what you need it for, it could still definitely do the job - I'm thinking in 6 years though, whether your laptop still works or not, you'll be wanting something new and REALLY cool, like a G6 PowerBook... ;)

[drsuse]

There will definitely be some sort of update out by June, so you have nothing to worry about. As for lasting you 6+ years, that's an awful long time! But hey, depending what you need it for, it could still definitely do the job - I'm thinking in 6 years though, whether your laptop still works or not, you'll be wanting something new and REALLY cool, like a G6 PowerBook... ;)

yeah, probably. :p

i'll likely still be in university at that point (starting next fall), so money may be tight, but hey...that's what loans are for...

my dad bought his wall street when they first came out ('98), and it still works great or everything he needs it to do, except run os x... he could do it if he upgraded the ram, just hasn't really seen the point.

[~Shard~]

yeah, probably. :p

i'll likely still be in university at that point (starting next fall), so money may be tight, but hey...that's what loans are for...

my dad bought his wall street when they first came out ('98), and it still works great or everything he needs it to do, except run os x... he could do it if he upgraded the ram, just hasn't really seen the point.

Still though, that's definitely a testament to the longevity of Apple machines. How many people can say they still have their PC from 1998, haven't upgraded it significantly, can still use it effectively, and could load XP onto it by just upgrading the RAM? Good luck... ;)

[AidenShaw]

How many people can say they still have their PC from 1998, haven't upgraded it significantly, can still use it effectively, and could load XP onto it by just upgrading the RAM? Good luck... ;)

Actually, I do have a '98 vintage Pentium laptop running XP.

Everthing that I did in '99 with NT4 runs just fine today on XP. No complaints about speed (although I did get it with the max of 512 MiB of RAM even back then).

It's been moved to "spare computer" status, however. Not because it can't run XP quickly - but because my newer 5 Mpixel digital camera is giving it images that it just can't handle fast enough for my "patience level".

My newer 1.7 GHz Pentium M with 2 GiB of RAM blows through these images without breaking out in a sweat.
_______________

So, it's not the computer, or the applications - it's the DATA that's killing the older system.

[~Shard~]

Actually, I do have a '98 vintage Pentium laptop running XP.

Everthing that I did in '99 with NT4 runs just fine today on XP. No complaints about speed (although I did get it with the max of 512 MiB of RAM even back then).

It's been moved to "spare computer" status, however. Not because it can't run XP quickly - but because my newer 5 Mpixel digital camera is giving it images that it just can't handle fast enough for my "patience level".

My newer 1.7 GHz Pentium M with 2 GiB of RAM blows through these images without breaking out in a sweat.
_______________

So, it's not the computer, or the applications - it's the DATA that's killing the older system.

I still like the fact though that OS X isn't bloatware like Windows. What a novel concept that you can upgrade your Mac to Panther for example and it actually makes your system run faster. And also that the minimum system requirements don't double like they seem to do for every version of Windows. I'm exaggerating here, but still, it seems like Windows' requirements have gone from 400 MB to 1 GB to 2 GB to 4 GB of HD space, and 32 MB to 64 MB to 256 MB of RAM, as well as great leaps in processor speeds. Mac OS just doesn't seem to have those types of requirements...

[maya]

I still like the fact though that OS X isn't bloatware like Windows. What a novel concept that you can upgrade your Mac to Panther for example and it actually makes your system run faster. And also that the minimum system requirements don't double like they seem to do for every version of Windows. I'm exaggerating here, but still, it seems like Windows' requirements have gone from 400 MB to 1 GB to 2 GB to 4 GB of HD space, and 32 MB to 64 MB to 256 MB of RAM, as well as great leaps in processor speeds. Mac OS just doesn't seem to have those types of requirements...

It's the premium one pays as a Mac users thus your argument is answered.

Last time I checked Xp will run on a 2000 year PC. As does Panther. Is the PC computer OS feel slow yes compared to the Mac side. However that is cause for argument.

-------------------------------------------------

Reason for a PBG5 is because the Top Mobile end notebook like is running very close to the bottom end mobile line.

I want to render 3D images may it be still or animation on the road or anyplace where brilliance strikes me. I want to encode my home movies or if I a shooting an "Independent Movie". My choice, I am willing to pay for Power and Mobility. And no I do not want a PMG5 try caring that around. :rolleyes: :eek:

It also seems that Apple and IBM are falling behind on the mobile end, when compared to the rest of the industry.

Do I need a G5 to surf the web or email, nope however I want to process data in the background and having a 64-bit chip and OS will allow me to have more active memory to complete the work faster and experiment with my 3D scenes or movies. And no I don't want to buy an iBook and a PMG5 to take from work to home and visa versa. Maybe instead of buy a JET for Steve and Co. How about lowering the PB price it looks outdated or give more for the same price. Bring on the PBG5 already, Apple is one of the major companies in the computer industry to spend millions on R&D, are these people sleeping. :mad:

And why would anyone invest in the G4 so late in the game, when the G5 has hit the iMac line. Tiger is going to use 64-bit to full capacity, so why invest in a 32-bit chip now. Even if Tiger will work on it, its still not going to compare to a G5 64-bit with a 64-bit OS to compliment it. More memory runs more, tasks, applications, faster.

Unless you really need a notebook go ahead buy the 32-bit G4 PB's.

Apple is a computer company there are not your friend they profit from you, so why take it easy on them for short falls.

Last time I checked did they buy you a JET for being an Apple customer for XYZ years. :rolleyes:

And for those, I am a mac users for over 10+ years. I just cannot figure as to why the PB have fallen short and only delivered so little in such a long time. Moto's fault maybe. Now it seems that IBM is in the Moto shoes.

[johnnyjibbs]

I still like the fact though that OS X isn't bloatware like Windows. What a novel concept that you can upgrade your Mac to Panther for example and it actually makes your system run faster. And also that the minimum system requirements don't double like they seem to do for every version of Windows. I'm exaggerating here, but still, it seems like Windows' requirements have gone from 400 MB to 1 GB to 2 GB to 4 GB of HD space, and 32 MB to 64 MB to 256 MB of RAM, as well as great leaps in processor speeds. Mac OS just doesn't seem to have those types of requirements...
I know and agree with what you're saying but, to be fair, OS X requires hefty specs (much greater than OS 9), such as 128MB RAM (256 at least to be productive), a couple of gigs of HD space (compared with about 200MB for OS 9), etc. What is good for us Mac users is that OS X 10.0 has required this, 10.1 required this, so did 10.2 and 10.3, and 10.4 will too :)

[JFreak]

you should be comparing osx requirements to longhorn requirements, as they are both 64bit-era operating systems. comparison of current windows will have to be made to classic os9, at least if one wants fair results ;)

comparing panther to xp is like comparing this year F1 ferrari to 90's williams...

[AidenShaw]

Tiger is going to use 64-bit to full capacity, so why invest in a 32-bit chip now. Even if Tiger will work on it, its still not going to compare to a G5 64-bit with a 64-bit OS to compliment it. More memory runs more, tasks, applications, faster.


You've hit the nail on the head here - "more memory", specifically "more than 4 GiB of RAM per process".

That's what "use 64-bit to full capacity" means - everything else can be done with a 32-bit CPU (including more than 4 GiB of RAM per system - the G4 supports up to 64 GiB of RAM).

So, this leads to the conclusion that you can't "fully" use a 64-bit CPU in a laptop unless the laptop has more than 4 GiB of RAM - at 4 GiB or less you might as well have a 32-bit chip (and a dual-core 32-bit CPU would just thrash the 64-bit chip).

Next conclusion is that you won't see an 8 GiB capacity laptop. Current SO-DIMMs top out at 1 GiB - and use up to 24 watts of power per SO-DIMM.

So, think about a laptop with 8 memory slots using nearly 200 watts of power just for the RAM.... Wouldn't that be an innovation - NOT?

A Freescale dual-core G4 would be a great machine for the near term - for a couple years until 4 GiB SO-DIMMs or some alternative is available. Unless IBM is coming out with a dual-core 970 that uses 10-20 watts, the Freescale chip will stomp a G5 laptop.

A "64-bit laptop" would just be willy-waving, you wouldn't be able to put enough memory in it to use 64-bits - or it would have a couple of XServe fans to keep it cool. (Claiming "64-bit" for the iMacs and PM 1.8 systems is willy-waving too, you can't put enough memory in them to "fully" use 64-bits.)

[AidenShaw]

you should be comparing osx requirements to longhorn requirements, as they are both 64bit-era operating systems.

But XP 64-bit is available for purchase or download today, OS X 64-bit is not. The "64-bit era" hasn't begun for OS X yet....

It's also interesting that 32-bit NT 3.1 ran on a 64-bit processor when it was introduced in 1993 - it was 10 years later that 32-bit OS X ran on a 64-bit processor. Oops, does that mean the Windows 95 is a "64-bit era" OS.... :eek:

Just what is the "64-bit era", anyway? Sounds like marketing-speak, not something with any technical foundation.


comparison of current windows will have to be made to classic os9, at least if one wants fair results ;)

Classic OS9 compares to Win9x.

NT/2K/XP/2K3 are fundamentally similar to OS X at the core (virtual memory, memory protection, multi-tasking, multi-threading, SMP, TCP/IP, micro-kernel-like ...). Most of the differences are at the presentation layers.

[JFreak]

64bit xp is just as much 64bit than osx panther running on G5 hardware. it's not complete. tiger will have all code base checked for 64bit compatibility and then re-compiled. that's the same thing microsoft does with longhorn.

[~Shard~]

I know and agree with what you're saying but, to be fair, OS X requires hefty specs (much greater than OS 9), such as 128MB RAM (256 at least to be productive), a couple of gigs of HD space (compared with about 200MB for OS 9), etc. What is good for us Mac users is that OS X 10.0 has required this, 10.1 required this, so did 10.2 and 10.3, and 10.4 will too :)

Fair enough, point taken. OS 9 to OS X is more of a noticeable "jump", however as you stated, I was thinking more along the lines of OS 10.0->10.4. I agree.

[AidenShaw]

64bit xp is just as much 64bit than osx panther running on G5 hardware. it's not complete. tiger will have all code base checked for 64bit compatibility and then re-compiled. that's the same thing microsoft does with longhorn.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;294418

Comparison of 32-Bit and 64-Bit Memory Architecture
...
Architectural component 64-bit Windows 32-bit Windows
Virtual memory 16 terabytes 4 GB
Paging file size 512 terabytes 16 terabytes
Hyperspace 8 GB 4 MB
Paged pool 128 GB 470 MB
Non-paged pool 128 GB 256 MB
System cache 1 terabyte 1 GB
System PTEs 128 GB 660 MB
...
The 2-GB User-Mode Virtual Memory Limitation

64-bit programs use a 16-terabyte tuning model (8 terabytes User and 8 terabytes Kernel). 32-bit programs still use the 4-GB tuning model (2 GB User and 2 GB Kernel).
...
APPLIES TO
• Microsoft Windows XP 64-Bit Edition
• Microsoft Windows Server 2003 64-bit Enterprise Edition

XP 64-bit is true 64-bit - all pointers are 64-bits, and applications can use more than 4 GiB of RAM.

OS X (Panther) is 32-bit - pointers are 32-bits and an application has a 4 GiB (or less) limit

XP on IA64/AMD64/EM64T is not like OS X 10.3 - Windows 64-bit is true 64-bit, and it's been shipping for 3 years. There's no wait for Longhorn.
___________________

Please, if I'm wrong, provide links to show that an OS X 10.3 program can use 64-bit pointers, and allocate more than 4 GiB of RAM in a flat 64-bit virtual address space.

___________________

See also: Counting the Bits of a Panther (http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=4009&page=2)

"...a true 64-bit application on a true 64-bit OS such as Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, Irix, zSeries, Tru64 and the 64-bit versions of Linux, Windows and the BSDs..."

"...Mac OS X is not a 64-bit OS, by my definition emphasizing the ability of applications to use 64-bits of memory. Therefore, Apple is behind almost all commerical UNIXs, 64-bit versions of Linux for many platforms including Intel's Itanium and AMD's Opteron/Athlon64, and 64-bit versions of Windows for Itanium and Opteron..."

[rtjstevens]

Advice please. I have a G4 desktop at home but have to use a PC in my lab at work. I use PowerPoint a lot, sometimes having written the notes first with Keynote (Keynote problem: It's not easy to write scientific formulae with all the sub and super scripts -but that's another story!)

Question: Will the new iBook with its rather limited graphics capability run fairly detailed PowerPoint displays ( some of the pages may have embedded gif animations and flash)?

Thanks

Richard Stevens (UK)

[wdlove]

I am currently in Iraq, making some serious bank, and when I get back I plan to buy a maxxed out 17' G5, if they have them out by them. Max RAM, max everything. I still have my original TiBook 500Mhz, bought at MWSF 01, starting to get weak. Can't even play X-Plane or Railroad Tycoon on it anymore. Some of the other guys think I am crazy spending over $4000 on a new PB, when I could get a maxxed out PC for $1500-$2000...but they dont understand. I'll never go over to "that" side. Come on Apple, you have one year before I get back, get to it! Heat sinks be damned!

Thank you for your service to our country, it is greatly appreciated. It is because of you that we are safe in our own country. Now it is really important that Apple has something awesome to purchase when you get home. ;)

[maya]

You've hit the nail on the head here - "more memory", specifically "more than 4 GiB of RAM per process".

That's what "use 64-bit to full capacity" means - everything else can be done with a 32-bit CPU (including more than 4 GiB of RAM per system - the G4 supports up to 64 GiB of RAM).

So, this leads to the conclusion that you can't "fully" use a 64-bit CPU in a laptop unless the laptop has more than 4 GiB of RAM - at 4 GiB or less you might as well have a 32-bit chip (and a dual-core 32-bit CPU would just thrash the 64-bit chip).

Next conclusion is that you won't see an 8 GiB capacity laptop. Current SO-DIMMs top out at 1 GiB - and use up to 24 watts of power per SO-DIMM.


http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/memory/display/20040920150146.html

Samsung plans to launch mass production of the 80nm process, 2Gb DDR2 SDRAM in the second half of 2005. The 2Gb DDR2 devices meet fine-pitch ball grid array (FBGA) package specifications for DDR2. Even without modifications, the devices can directly drive module density levels of Gigabyte (GB) scale; 2GB, 4GB and 8GB.

It will have to be scaled for a laptop, however it can be done. And that is at 80nm, if they shrink it the speed will "theoretically" increase. How soon is up to the manufacturer TBH.

In reality I do feel that the application(s) may have some memory leaks and are bloated. This also goes for Java based applications. :-(

[AidenShaw]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/memory/display/20040920150146.html

Samsung plans to launch mass production of the 80nm process, 2Gb DDR2 SDRAM in the second half of 2005....

Thanks for the reference - so, by the end of 2005 we may see higher density SO-DIMMs if these chips will fit in the SO-DIMM form factor. I also remember that it took many months between the time that Samsung entered "full production" on RDRAM before RIMMs were readily available.

Maybe by the end of 2006 the price will drop to where it would be affordable to use them.... (The newest, highest-density DIMM modules historically have cost much more per byte than the commodity DIMMs using "standard" density chips.)

I think this lines up with my "couple of years before 64-bit really useful in a laptop" comment....

[maya]

Thanks for the reference - so, by the end of 2005 we may see higher density SO-DIMMs if these chips will fit in the SO-DIMM form factor. I also remember that it took many months between the time that Samsung entered "full production" on RDRAM before RIMMs were readily available.

Maybe by the end of 2006 the price will drop to where it would be affordable to use them.... (The newest, highest-density DIMM modules historically have cost much more per byte than the commodity DIMMs using "standard" density chips.)

I think this lines up with my "couple of years before 64-bit really useful in a laptop" comment....

Lets just wait and see what kind of "rabbit" Apple manages to pull of of the tall hat this MWSF05.

I remember at one event where Steve.J introduced the iMac G4 and had claimed that they didn't want to slap the computer on the back of an LCD screen since the optical and HDD would have a shorter life and poor performance. And yet vola we have the iMac G5. Hypocrites, depends on opinion.

Best just to anticipate the show till Jan05 and then come back here in a few min after the Keynote and complain. :D

[AidenShaw]

Lets just wait and see what kind of "rabbit" Apple manages to pull of of the tall hat this MWSF05.

Well, if the "rabbit" is holding a big banner shouting "64-bit", but at the same time has "max RAM 2 GiB" in the small print - then we'll need a big dose of RDF to think that it means anything.... "some pills make you larger, and some pills make you small..."

If you can't install more than 4 GiB of RAM, a faster (or dual) 32-bit processor will be better than a 64-bit CPU - almost always.

[lha72]

Anyone have any experience with Sony laptops? I really need a portable for digital photo work, and I'm not going to drop the kind of money apple wants for one of their outdated laptops. I like Macs, and have been using apple for about 20 years, but it seems apple is putting all their effort into ipods, and a trickle of 2.5 G5's.

This isn't meant to start a flame war - I've been a computer user for 35 years, and just want an honest evaluation of portable, reasonably priced, powerful laptops. Since apple seems to have turned its back on its core constituency, I guess it's time to move on to other, more responsive manufacturers.

As for digital photos, I have found Photoshop works just as well on a WinIntel machine as it does on a Mac.

[JCT]

re: the Sony Vaios

We have a few at work, they are well designed and relatively fast. They are no rugged by any means (I would go with IBM if it might be knocked around).

The only problem we have had is with Sony support which is *abysmal* . We had two major fruitless go-arounds with them and were basically SOL. :mad:

If you get a good one, no problem ....

JT

[lha72]

re: the Sony Vaios

We have a few at work, they are well designed and relatively fast. They are no rugged by any means (I would go with IBM if it might be knocked around).

The only problem we have had is with Sony support which is *abysmal* . We had two major fruitless go-arounds with them and were basically SOL. :mad:

If you get a good one, no problem ....

JT

Thanks JT,

We have Dell's where I work, and it's the same, if you get a good one it's alright, if not, you're SOL. IBM was my other consideration.

Thanks for the quick (and civil) reply.

[AidenShaw]

I really need a portable for digital photo work, and I'm not going to drop the kind of money apple wants for one of their outdated laptops.

I use a Dell Latitude D600, both for work and photography.

The D600 has a 1400x1050 high resolution 14" screen - which is simply superb for photos. Trying to work with one of Apple's low resolution 1024x768 screens would be painful - so much of the camera's resolution is thrown away scaling to the low resolution screen.

If I were choosing a laptop mainly for photo work, the #1 criterion would be "more pixels".

My advice would be:

- look at the resolution, and get as many pixels as possible. Windows does a pretty good job with making everything readable when you set "large fonts". Running Photoshop with a 500 Kpixel view of a 5 Mpixel image hurts...

- RAM, RAM, RAM. Get a system with at least 1 GiB of RAM, and which cacn support at least 2 GiB. I'm on my third primary laptop, and in both cases the earlier ones were replaced because their maximum RAM capacity was too small for the work I was doing. The processors weren't too slow - but I simply couldn't add adequate memory.

No complaints about Dell service, but we're a big corporate account. Any problem is Call, FedEx overnight, Fixed next day.

[jrscse]

It would be nice to have a DL write capable super drive in whatever they bring out next G4 or G5.

[Diatribe]

It would be nice to have a DL write capable super drive in whatever they bring out next G4 or G5.

At 2x writing speed? No thanks.

[~Shard~]

At 2x writing speed? No thanks.

Ah, come on, 45 minutes burning time isn't _that_ bad - just let the disc burn over lunch hour, while you're getting ready for work in the morning, while you're making dinner at night, while you're reading or talking on the phone, while you're out picking up groceries... There are lots of times during the day when you could let one of those guys burn! ;) :cool:

[Dragonfyre]

Anybody think the G5 Powerbook would have a screen much like Sony's Xbrite or Toshiba's Trubrite? I'm really hoping they do!

[Benj]

I've been tracking this thread for days and can't remember how much this has come up.

I am considering buying a PB (either new or one of the ones being sold by a member) as I am confident that there will be nothing before January. In Jan. either a speedbump or a nucleur reactor (which won't reach these shores until the middle of the year a la iPod Mini).

So, question is, does Apple have a history of dropping the prices of hardware when not accompanied by a new revision? It seems to make emminent sense at the moment with PBs weighing in at massively more than the increasingly comparable iBooks.

Need a better screen than the horrible item on my G3 14" iBook.

[maya]

Ah, come on, 45 minutes burning time isn't _that_ bad - just let the disc burn over lunch hour, while you're getting ready for work in the morning, while you're making dinner at night, while you're reading or talking on the phone, while you're out picking up groceries... There are lots of times during the day when you could let one of those guys burn! ;) :cool:

That is bad, 45 mins. Why is Apple falling behind on key technologies in the mobile market. 10-20 mins might be more acceptable than 45 mins.

And why has the SuperDrive still not natively supporting DVD-RW. The drive is capable of it. I don't want a 3rd party hack. This is just lame on Apples part.

Apple really needs to get they act together in the mobile market. G5 or G4 dual-core who cares at this point. They seem to be sleeping or putting everything into the iPod and mini (which I like) however last time I checked they made computers not JUST "iPods".

Need to upgrade the notebook, next year. Lets see what they bring upon us in that time to the consumers.

[maya]

I've been tracking this thread for days and can't remember how much this has come up.

I am considering buying a PB (either new or one of the ones being sold by a member) as I am confident that there will be nothing before January. In Jan. either a speedbump or a nucleur reactor (which won't reach these shores until the middle of the year a la iPod Mini).

So, question is, does Apple have a history of dropping the prices of hardware when not accompanied by a new revision? It seems to make emminent sense at the moment with PBs weighing in at massively more than the increasingly comparable iBooks.

Need a better screen than the horrible item on my G3 14" iBook.

Yes, it does seem Apple is falling short in the mobile market:

1. LCD Screen resolution.
2. Optical DVD drive not supporting DVD-RW or even +/- formats.
3. Low Standard ram 256. should be 512.

You can add more to that list if you desire. :-(

[~Shard~]

That is bad, 45 mins. Why is Apple falling behind on key technologies in the mobile market. 10-20 mins might be more acceptable than 45 mins.

I was being half-serious - see the ;) at the end of my post? Guess you missed it...

They seem to be sleeping or putting everything into the iPod and mini (which I like) however last time I checked they made computers not JUST "iPods".

If you see signs of Apple "sleeping" and neglecting all things non-iPod, then perhaps you should look at the latest iBook revisions, the updated Pro tools (FCP HD, Motion, etc.), Airport Express, the new PowerMacs, the new displays (most notably the 30" monster!), the G5 iMac, and you might as well throw Tiger in there as well.

Is Apple focusing solely on the iPod and neglecting their other lines? Not in the least. They are simply capitalizing on their own genius with respect to the iPod and iTMS and trying to maximize their profits, as any well-run business should do. Apple does make computers and not just iPods.

If you can do things better, and if you can design one of these G5 PowerBooks or dual-core G4 systems you so impatiently want and feel should be released soon, then I suggest you knock on Steve Jobs' door, tell himself yourself Apple is sleeping on this front, and give him your plans on how they can do things more efficiently and quicker than they currently are. I'm sure he'd be happy to hear what you have to say. :cool:

[sankara]

So, question is, does Apple have a history of dropping the prices of hardware when not accompanied by a new revision? It seems to make emminent sense at the moment with PBs weighing in at massively more than the increasingly comparable iBooks.

Need a better screen than the horrible item on my G3 14" iBook.

if I remember correctly, the prices of TiBook 15"(last rev.) and AlBook 12"&15"(1st rev.) were dropped 200$ w/o new revisions in 2003. ;)

[~Shard~]

if I remember correctly, the prices of TiBook 15"(last rev.) and AlBook 12"&15"(1st rev.) were dropped 200$ w/o new revisions in 2003. ;)

Yah, I think the price drop was the "revision"... ;)

[Benj]

Thanks chaps.

The current PB does more than I need - just need a half decent screen on the go and the ability to access better resolution on an external screen. (Otherwise the iBook would do just fine.)

Sounds like it might be worth hanging on for a price drop then. I'm guessing if they do it, it will have to be soon or anyone buying them now will be a tad annoyed.

Something to tack on to all of the iTunes/iPod announcements next week?

[~Shard~]

Thanks chaps.

The current PB does more than I need - just need a half decent screen on the go and the ability to access better resolution on an external screen. (Otherwise the iBook would do just fine.)

Sounds like it might be worth hanging on for a price drop then. I'm guessing if they do it, it will have to be soon or anyone buying them now will be a tad annoyed.

Something to tack on to all of the iTunes/iPod announcements next week?

Don't know about that, but we'll have to see. With the hardware announcements this past Tuesday (new iBooks and new PowerMac) I don't know if another announcement like that will happen - this Tuesday might be reserved for iPod+iTMS.

[wdlove]

Anyone have any experience with Sony laptops? I really need a portable for digital photo work, and I'm not going to drop the kind of money apple wants for one of their outdated laptops. I like Macs, and have been using apple for about 20 years, but it seems apple is putting all their effort into ipods, and a trickle of 2.5 G5's.

As for digital photos, I have found Photoshop works just as well on a WinIntel machine as it does on a Mac.

My only experience with a Sony laptop is visiting my local Sony Store. They make them look very nice in the store. They weren't hooked up to the internet like Apple.

[Benj]

Don't know about that, but we'll have to see. With the hardware announcements this past Tuesday (new iBooks and new PowerMac) I don't know if another announcement like that will happen - this Tuesday might be reserved for iPod+iTMS.

True. I guess most people who are interested in the iPods and iTMS couldn't care less about high end hardware (or if I'm being cynical, Apple hardware...).

[MacSA]

Don't know about that, but we'll have to see. With the hardware announcements this past Tuesday (new iBooks and new PowerMac) I don't know if another announcement like that will happen - this Tuesday might be reserved for iPod+iTMS.

Maybe they'll announce new eMacs, they've got to be coming pretty soon.

[Benj]

Maybe they'll announce new eMacs, they've got to be coming pretty soon.

I'm starting to think that is never coming. It makes me laugh that the "New eMac tomorrow?" thread has been knocking around for weeks.

I'd better talk about PowerBooks again or I'll be in big trouble...

[Benj]

Oh yes, the other question about a price drop would be, would it be like a revision - if you buy and they price drop shortly afterwards do you get a rebate (or something)?

[~Shard~]

True. I guess most people who are interested in the iPods and iTMS couldn't care less about high end hardware (or if I'm being cynical, Apple hardware...).

And vice versa, perhaps the people who are interested in iPod and iTMS didn't care at all when the new iBooks and PowerMac model were announced this past Tuesday. :cool:

[~Shard~]

Oh yes, the other question about a price drop would be, would it be like a revision - if you buy and they price drop shortly afterwards do you get a rebate (or something)?

I don't think it would work that way, but maybe someone else here can speak from experience...

[~Shard~]

I'm starting to think that is never coming. It makes me laugh that the "New eMac tomorrow?" thread has been knocking around for weeks.

Not as long as the "iTMS Canada Soon" threads... ;)

[mypantsaretight]

Advice please. I have a G4 desktop at home but have to use a PC in my lab at work. I use PowerPoint a lot, sometimes having written the notes first with Keynote (Keynote problem: It's not easy to write scientific formulae with all the sub and super scripts -but that's another story!)

Question: Will the new iBook with its rather limited graphics capability run fairly detailed PowerPoint displays ( some of the pages may have embedded gif animations and flash)?

Thanks

Richard Stevens (UK)

Since the rest of the crowd is too busy pissing and moaning, I'll answer you. Yes it will. My older computer (a Pismo 500 MHz with 256 RAM) runs PowerPoint and what I feel are rather detailed presentations with absolutely ZERO difficulty.

By all means though test for yourself. Burn your presentation to a CD (or have someone do it for you) and take it to your nearest Apple retailer/reseller or friend who owns a Mac. Check how it runs and see if it is to your satisfaction. (FWIW, my 15" PB runs presentations as well as my G5 desktop.)

--- What follows is not directed toward the above poster. His comment/question was valid and in no way consituted whining. I do not include him in what follows.

The "limits" that the whiners are talking about in all of the posts since mine can be summarized in the following list:

1) I want to do full 3D-rendering at production desktop speeds on a laptop.

2) I want a full independent movie production studio in my $2500 laptop.

3) I am too cheap to buy an external DVD burner (despite the fact I shelled out 2.5k+ for my laptop) and I demand that a higher-end DVD R/W drive be put in my laptop so that I can mass-produce DVDs of my movies and 3D creations.

Notice that not one of these involves the day-to-day activities of 95%+ of the Apple laptop market.... but who cares. After all, it's not about what's true or real, it's about who can throw the biggest tantrum.

I will say it again. If the whiners and the five other people in the same boat honestly believe they can do better with a WinBlows laptop....then they should go buy one and move on with their lives. Join the dozens of others who are buying up those portable desktops from Alienware, et. al..

I don't care if faster WinBlows laptops exist. I don't care if they have more (insert technical spec here) than the current Macs. My Mac works fine for what I (and most of the Mac marketplace) want and I sleep well, end of story.

peace

[Maxx Power]

--- What follows is not directed toward the above poster. His comment/question was valid and in no way consituted whining. I do not include him in what follows.

The "limits" that the whiners are talking about in all of the posts since mine can be summarized in the following list:

1) I want to do full 3D-rendering at production desktop speeds on a laptop.

2) I want a full independent movie production studio in my $2500 laptop.

3) I am too cheap to buy an external DVD burner (despite the fact I shelled out 2.5k+ for my laptop) and I demand that a higher-end DVD R/W drive be put in my laptop so that I can mass-produce DVDs of my movies and 3D creations.

Notice that not one of these involves the day-to-day activities of 95%+ of the Apple laptop market.... but who cares. After all, it's not about what's true or real, it's about who can throw the biggest tantrum.

I will say it again. If the whiners and the five other people in the same boat honestly believe they can do better with a WinBlows laptop....then they should go buy one and move on with their lives. Join the dozens of others who are buying up those portable desktops from Alienware, et. al..

I don't care if faster WinBlows laptops exist. I don't care if they have more (insert technical spec here) than the current Macs. My Mac works fine for what I (and most of the Mac marketplace) want and I sleep well, end of story.

peace

I agree with what you said in a certain perspective, however to present a different angle of things, lets evaluate this differently. A few things you said are specious reasonings, in the perspective of another ficticious person (not pointing at anyone in particular). People don't spend thousands of dollars on a piece of equipment that doubles as a clone for performing duties their 6 year old computers can do, newer computers have to create or manufacturer a supposedly new and necessary function, or functions. We don't need a computer to type on, or to communicate, though people often justify their actions based on these things because it is more acceptable if you make the computer seem more like a need than a desire. Apple markets their laptop as being video production machines, and image crunching vector machines. We don't pay a huge premium just to have a nice looking computer, we pay a small premium for the good finish, etc, but we pay a lot of the premium portion of the price of a Mac for the marketed extra superiority over wintel machines, like how Powerbooks are supposedly faster while lighter and sturdier, and that how the G(insert 4, 5, or whatever here) are supposedly supercomputer like machines. Not that I buy any of that marketing mumbo jumbo. If they advertise their machines as being luxury machines, and sell the top of the line units like PB and PM at prices that resemble luxury machines, then they better be superior in something useful other than just looks, much like how BMW's are not only pleasant to look at but also much above average when driving. If Mac's are only there to serve people's 95% of the interests, and that is truly why people buy material things, then people would never buy SUV's or sports cars, not that I support doing such things, but as a generalization of the mindsets out there, Apple is not targeting nor are people looking for, a machine that performs just that 95% of the daily commons. We see that this is true in the video card market as well, who cares what ATI or Nvidia's midrange or low range cards perform like ? they compete for the top position to boost their PR image so that people buy midrange or whatever cards based on their perception of the companies respectively. I support your point fully, but for most other "normal" people, what good is it to buy a computer that costs a week of labour in the work place that can not satisfy the occasional hunger for more ? 95% of the times people are not having sex, but I bet living a virgin life isn't what we were born to do biologically or the way people want life to be.

[kingtj]

As a fairly recent purchaser of a 17" Aluminum 1.5Ghz PB, I'm personally rather happy to hear Apple isn't rushing to make my "top end" Apple laptop obsolete.

For the kind of money I spent on it, I hoped it would remain the "top of the line" for at least a reasonable amount of time.

In fact, that's one big reason I took the plunge and bought it.... I realized it was silly to wait around for the G5 to be crammed into a portable, and it was obvious that when Motorola reached around the 1.2Ghz mark on the G4 CPU, it started becoming a struggle to squeeze much more out of it. When one of the incremental speed upgrades was from 1.42Ghz to 1.5Ghz, that told me they were really about at the upper limit of what they were gonna get out of this line of processor - so I could buy without fear they'd make my purchase look "lame" with another product refresh 3 or 6 months down the road.

And for all these people whining about iBook upgrades making the Powerbooks an unattractive option - whatever.... Buy your iBook and shut up then. Personally, the iBook was never a portable I'd consider. It's too "generic consumerish" for me. You can't get it in a decent screen size, and RAM upgrade options are more limited, not to mention it lacking many of the little "wow" features in the Powerbooks, like the backlit keyboard. On top of that, we just got through the little fiasco with bad logic boards on iBooks left and right.

Your are kidding yourself right? The notebooks out now are (speedwise) 6-10 times faster than what you are using, less if you just go by mhz. You're the user that will wait forever for the next best thing, while everyone else enjoys the current best thing.

At least they are saying flat out "THIS IS EVERYTHING WE HAVE" So buy now, or wait till next time. At least you don't have to second guess a purchase.

[Diatribe]

Ah, come on, 45 minutes burning time isn't _that_ bad - just let the disc burn over lunch hour, while you're getting ready for work in the morning, while you're making dinner at night, while you're reading or talking on the phone, while you're out picking up groceries... There are lots of times during the day when you could let one of those guys burn! ;) :cool:

Again, no thanks. If I have to wait that long for burning stuff then I rather wait for the BlueRay drives to be put in. At least then I have massive storage and can backup my entire HD and leave it on overnight.

[Diatribe]

And why has the SuperDrive still not natively supporting DVD-RW. The drive is capable of it. I don't want a 3rd party hack. This is just lame on Apples part.


What are you talking about? Mine does burn DVD-RW flawlessly without a hack...

[Geetar]

I find some of the talk about "top of the line" portable stuff becoming obsolete/falling down the heirarchical ladder a bit curious. For a long time in the pro audio side of the Mac world, we've been expecting Apple to let us run clusters of Macs for recording/fx/video and we've just started to see this in Logic and 10.3.5. I suspect Windows will allow this in due course, so those that fail to find value in Apple's current line can hope it'll be as elegant and easy on their PC of choice:rolleyes: Sometimes "value" lies in the way we are allowed to work and grow, rather than the size or speed of our CPUs and GPUs. Firewire and Gigabit Ethernet are the keys here.

I bought a PB 1.5 more or less knowing (okay, I was told quite a while ago, one of the ...er...priveleges of working on the "bleeding edge" :) ) that I can soon chain it to one or more G5s to lay off my fx processing, and use the laptop almost exclusively as a location recorder. So it'll pretty much keep working in this capacity until it dies. I doubt that audio is the only area that will benefit from this, and I suspect we'll see a lot more of this in Tiger for a whole bunch of different apps. This is not the moment in time to be agonizing over Apple's portable lineup. For semi-pro and up, we're pretty much good to go. The video guys should know this anyway, so anyone with heavy-duty needs hasn't much of an excuse not to buy now. Anyone at a lower needs/uses level can enjoy using the iBooks, which look like great value right now.

[~Shard~]

Again, no thanks. If I have to wait that long for burning stuff then I rather wait for the BlueRay drives to be put in. At least then I have massive storage and can backup my entire HD and leave it on overnight.

As I stated above, I was only being half-serious in my comment - for people who are used to burning media in a matter of minutes, 45 minutes is definitely a long period of time to wait. Of course, I remember when I purchased my first 2x CD-R drive, (back when blank CD-Rs were $5 each!), and I didn't seem to mind waiting half an hour for a 650 MB disc to be burned... ;)

[Diatribe]

As I stated above, I was only being half-serious in my comment - for people who are used to burning media in a matter of minutes, 45 minutes is definitely a long period of time to wait. Of course, I remember when I purchased my first 2x CD-R drive, (back when blank CD-Rs were $5 each!), and I didn't seem to mind waiting half an hour for a 650 MB disc to be burned... ;)

I know back then.... :D
But still, I'd be ok with waiting a while if I could actually get a 100GB on a disc. That would be worthwhile. I don't think dual layer DVDs are here to stay anyway, so why adopt them?

[~Shard~]

I know back then.... :D
But still, I'd be ok with waiting a while if I could actually get a 100GB on a disc. That would be worthwhile. I don't think dual layer DVDs are here to stay anyway, so why adopt them?

I think DL DVDs will find a little niche for themselves, but I agree, I don't think they will be here to stay, at least not in a major role.

[Dalriada]

Was just wondering whether Thanksgiving could be the holidays to which Moody was referring to last week and then updates could still arrive before MWSF :D :D Guess wishful thinking :rolleyes:

[Benj]

Was just wondering whether Thanksgiving could be the holidays to which Moody was referring to last week and then updates could still arrive before MWSF :D :D Guess wishful thinking :rolleyes:

I really hope not. I had just about decided not to bother waiting! I think (hope) Apple would not run the risk of irritating people who buy now with that kind of trickery.

[panda]

I really hope not. I had just about decided not to bother waiting! I think (hope) Apple would not run the risk of irritating people who buy now with that kind of trickery.

i don't think you should have to worry about that. 'the holidays' mean christmas and new years. thanksgiving is different i believe.

i am hoping for an update soon, but do not believe it will be now, particularly after his comment. mwsf would be nice though, and even nicer if it is big revision.

:)

[ashon3611]

i don't think you should have to worry about that. 'the holidays' mean christmas and new years. thanksgiving is different i believe.

i am hoping for an update soon, but do not believe it will be now, particularly after his comment. mwsf would be nice though, and even nicer if it is big revision.

:)

yes I agree but then again the "holiday season" is already starting. At Gap we're getting our holiday collection by Wedensday. Crazy how there is going to be Christmas decorations before even Holloween.

[panda]

yes I agree but then again the "holiday season" is already starting. At Gap we're getting our holiday collection by Wedensday. Crazy how there is going to be Christmas decorations before even Holloween.

thank you ashton3611 for putting me right.

and you are quite right too that christmas in october is mad. imagine, soon it will be in august. i guess its all about this... buy, buy, buy.

i keep hoping that the longer the wait for the next pb revision, the better the machine.

better screen, better performance... please please

:)

[Giantred]

Hey everyone!

First of all I would like to say that being sick and reading all of your posts is quite fun ;) !

Anyways

I'm In the market for a 12" portable (iBook or PowerBook) and I have been making frequent trips to my local apple store to look at both of them. I have decied to put back my purchase for a while, atleast until I attend MWSF to touch the new Powerbooks (I hope.) I'm really curious about the low resolution of the 12" pwbk. My 14 year-old eyes can barley read the screens:eek:. How could apple make a better resolution screen with out the need of a microscope?

Corey The boy who looks like this ----> :confused:

P.S. I do agree that the screens could be brighter. It even seemed that the pwbk was inferior to the iBook.

[djkny]

Moody said the current PB line will stay that away through the holidays. "Current line" can be interpreted in any number of ways. He could be referring to the current G4 line, in which case, a speed bump (though minor) might be in order. Either that, or current "design" line, from which we can infer the same thing. Of course, G5 PB's (or dual cores for that matter) would be out of the question until after MWSF. But who's to say that a minor speed bump wouldn't occur between now and Dec?

[Benj]

Re the Christmas getting earlier; last year in the supermarket I saw a christmas display of chocolate oranges. In August. Maddening.

They won't do anything to the powerbooks until the new year. Apple would be killed in the media if they did a speed bump having said "no new powerbooks". They like to keep secrets but they aren't going to start telling lies or deliberately deceiving their customers.

My two pence.

Back to the gin.

[~Shard~]

First of all I would like to say that being sick and reading all of your posts is quite fun ;) !

For a second there I thought you said you were "sick of reading all of our posts" - which would have probably made sense as well... ;) :cool:

[Giantred]

For a second there I thought you said you were "sick of reading all of our posts" - which would have probably made sense as well... ;) :cool:


Maybe its just your posts Shard! :p :eek: :p

Corey

[~Shard~]

Maybe its just your posts Shard! :p :eek: :p

Corey

God knows it wouldn't have been the first time... Sometimes I even shake my head at what I post... :cool:

[panda]

wouldn't i be great if...

mwsf2005. we're jan and steve finally makes a keynote he can totally get into, after being away from paris and having had a very weak product line to show at mwsf2004.

-he shows the 3ghz pmac. (polite clapping -at last it is here)

-maybe an ipod

-anounces a tiger date (with an auto update for all new hardware buyers)

-and one more thing... pbG4 dual core 15" and 17" and 12" single core 1.5ghz, all with better screen resolutions.

please please please, blow us away!
:)

[AidenShaw]

Yes, it does seem Apple is falling short in the mobile market:

1. LCD Screen resolution.
2. Optical DVD drive not supporting DVD-RW or even +/- formats.
3. Low Standard ram 256. should be 512.

You can add more to that list if you desire. :-(


http://news.com.com/Dell+fields+17-inch+notebook/2100-1044_3-5426837.html

Dell offers Inspiron 9200 customers a choice between two 17-inch wide-screen displays, offering resolutions of either 1,440 pixels by 900 pixels known as WXGA+, or 1,920 pixels by 1200 pixels known as WUXGA.

The machine can also be configured with one of three Intel Pentium M processors running at speeds of 1.6GHz to 2GHz, hard drives of up to 100GB, and wireless networking. The 9200 also comes with ATI's Mobility Radeon 9700 graphics, fitted with 128MB of its own memory.

The base 9200 comes with a 1.6GHz Pentium M 725, the WXGA+ 17-inch display, 256MB of RAM, a 40GB hard drive, a DVD-ROM and an 802.11b Wi-Fi module from Intel for $1,699. It drops to $1,499 with the current Dell rebate.

Seems like 256 MiB of RAM is the norm....but it does have 128 MiB of VRAM standard.

It's $2100 with 1920x1200 screen, 512 MiB, 8x DVD+-/R/RW, 802.11g.

[johnnyjibbs]

Some of the competition may be better, but they run Windows and not Mac OS X, which is a major problem for a lot of people. :)

[Giantred]

Some of the competition may be better, but they run Windows and not Mac OS X, which is a major problem for a lot of people. :)


I dont know if look better is the way to say it. Cause I think a 1" thick 6 pound 17" looks good. But that dull is 1.5" thick and 8 pounds. That dosent look good, but it still is better in some ways.

Corey

[ashon3611]

wouldn't i be great if...

-and one more thing... pbG4 dual core 15" and 17" and 12" single core 1.5ghz, all with better screen resolutions.



I think we might see a possible a Dual-Core PowerPC 970MP in the PB in January. SEVERAL sites, appleinsider, thinksecret, and macosrumors are all talking about that possibility. While I dont think as macosrumors as reliable, when it talks about what their IBM sources are saying compared to what I found on an thinksecret discussion board, I am hearing POWER5s (G6?) by the end of 05, because it will produce less heat, have more that one core and since it can lower the clock speed and actually turn off one of the processors. Now im trying to think if I should just stick my PB money in a mutual fund and just wait for a G6PB...

by the way I think we should start a petition for Counterstrike on Macs.

[drsuse]

I think we might see a possible a Dual-Core PowerPC 970MP in the PB in January. SEVERAL sites, appleinsider, thinksecret, and macosrumors are all talking about that possibility. While I dont think as macosrumors as reliable, when it talks about what their IBM sources are saying compared to what I found on an thinksecret discussion board, I am hearing POWER5s (G6?) by the end of 05, because it will produce less heat, have more that one core and since it can lower the clock speed and actually turn off one of the processors. Now im trying to think if I should just stick my PB money in a mutual fund and just wait for a G6PB...

by the way I think we should start a petition for Counterstrike on Macs.

do you mean the people on the forums, or the actual sites? i didn't see anything on appleinsider or thinksecret, just on mosr, which isn't known to be super accurate.

that would be pretty cool to have a dual core g5 powerbook though...

and counterstrike... no thanks...

[AidenShaw]

I dont know if look better is the way to say it. Cause I think a 1" thick 6 pound 17" looks good. But that dull is 1.5" thick and 8 pounds. That dosent look good, but it still is better in some ways.

Corey

Dell 17" - 1.6", 7.7 lbs (41.5mm, 3.5kg)

PB 17" - 1.0", 6.9 lbs (26mm, 3.1kb)

Apple - $2899 512 MiB with 128 MiB VRAM ($2799 with 64 MiB)

Dell - $1873 with 8x DVD+-R/RW, 512MiB, 80 GB, 802.11g
($1499 for 256 MiB, 40 GB, 802.11g with DVD-ROM, $1548 with combo)

[Dragonfyre]

Does anybody notice the new displays the PC manufacturers are putting on their laptops? Sony came out with their XBrite(which is still the best). Then Toshiba, HP, and Compaq all have these new clearer displays. I really hope Apple moves in this direction as well, but have one as good as Sony's version. All of the other versions get distorted at extreme angles, whereas the Sony stays perfectly clear! I would love the G5 Powerbook have a NEW display with the higher resolution, ala Sony.

[thatwendigo]

Dell 17" - 1.6", 7.7 lbs (41.5mm, 3.5kg)
Dell - $1873 with 8x DVD+-R/RW, 512MiB, 80 GB, 802.11g
($1499 for 256 MiB, 40 GB, 802.11g with DVD-ROM, $1548 with combo)

I have no idea where you're getting these ridiculous prices from.

Dell Inspiron 9200 (as of 1:29 AM EST, Oct. 27 2004, since time matters with their stupid sales promotions)
Pentium M 1.6ghz
17" XGA screen
512MB RAM
128MB Radeon 9700 Mobile
8x DVD+/-RW
80GB 5400RPM
80Whr battery
Software (Acrobat Elements for PDF, burning, security, XP Pro, etc.)
$2,637

[Giantred]

I have no idea where you're getting these ridiculous prices from.

Dell Inspiron 9200 (as of 1:29 AM EST, Oct. 27 2004, since time matters with their stupid sales promotions)
Pentium M 1.6ghz
17" XGA screen
512MB RAM
128MB Radeon 9700 Mobile
8x DVD+/-RW
80GB 5400RPM
80Whr battery
Software (Acrobat Elements for PDF, burning, security, XP Pro, etc.)
$2,637



This sounds alittle mroe acurate for the Dell Side. I have priced many laptops with them and there small prices they give you in ads, dont include proccesers ect. Once again it depends on what way you look at it, I say they are some what equal on the price front since your paying an extra 200- for a much smaller machine.

Corey

[thatwendigo]

I think we might see a possible a Dual-Core PowerPC 970MP in the PB in January. SEVERAL sites, appleinsider, thinksecret, and macosrumors are all talking about that possibility. While I dont think as macosrumors as reliable, when it talks about what their IBM sources are saying compared to what I found on an thinksecret discussion board, I am hearing POWER5s (G6?) by the end of 05, because it will produce less heat, have more that one core and since it can lower the clock speed and actually turn off one of the processors. Now im trying to think if I should just stick my PB money in a mutual fund and just wait for a G6PB...

I really wish people that didn't understand chips would stop doing this.

From your own damn source (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/antares.html) (which you didn't link):
Aside from cache and bus improvements, Antares will boast a number of other design strides over the "Altair" 970FX chip. One area will be power management; the 970MP will feature enhancements to IBM's PowerTune technology -- first introduced in the 970FX -- which conserves power by throttling its clock speed on a dime. Both cores will throttle clock speeds and voltage up or down in tandem, sources said.

People who don't understand PowerTune think it's some godsend. It isn't. What PowerTune does is lower the clockspeed when the processor (or processors, in this case) isn't in use. It does next to nothing for operational core temperature, especially not for a system that's supposed to be a professional-use machine that will be on all the time and churning data around. You'll have lower power consumption when idle, and that's about it.

In other words, the PowerBook would be cooler when you're not doing anything with it or just surfing the web, but the moment you do something processor-intensive, it goes nova. A single 970FX core running at speeds Apple has used is, at its coolest peak heat, approximately 30 watts (around 1.6ghz) and you face new issues with going dual-core. Surface area becomes very important, since you have to pull heat off a smaller space, and that means you'll have twice as much heat in the same amount of space. Without some kind of design miracle, a 970MP will be hotter than a single core and claiming that it's going in the PowerBook is just ridiculous.

By comparison, Intel and AMD aren't going dual core in notebooks until late 2005 or early 2006. Pipe. Dream. They're both struggling just to get it onto desktops and servers, with Intel pushing roughly 200 watts with the Pentium 4 600EX (two Prescott 3.2ghz cores). Likewise, AMD's pushing 120-180 watts with the dual-core K8s.

------

Found after the fact:
Insanely Great refereneces: (http://www.insanely-great.com/news.php?id=3596)
The big news is that Apple is a customer for the 970MP, and it will run at up to 3GHz on a 1GHz bus. This is not, however, a low-power chip designed for notebooks; it is expected Apple will use it in the Power Mac G5 and the XServe G5. However, the 970MP does have power-saving modes built-in.

[AidenShaw]

I have no idea where you're getting these ridiculous prices from.

Dell Inspiron 9200 (as of 1:29 AM EST, Oct. 27 2004, since time matters with their stupid sales promotions)
Pentium M 1.6ghz
17" XGA screen
512MB RAM
128MB Radeon 9700 Mobile
8x DVD+/-RW
80GB 5400RPM
80Whr battery
Software (Acrobat Elements for PDF, burning, security, XP Pro, etc.)
$2,637

Here's the cut-n-paste from the order:

Inspiron 9200

From $2,172
Now from $1,846 (this is the special offer -as)

Inspiron 9200
Catalog Number / Description Product Code SKU Id
----------------------------------------------------------------
Inspiron 9200: Intel® Pentium® M 725 Processor (1.60GHz/400MHz FSB) GBM16HN [221-6536] 1

LCD Panel: 17" UltraSharp™ Wide Screen XGA+ Display 17XGA [320-3900] 2

Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition WHXP [420-4766][313-2208][412-0408][412-0689][313-3081] 11

Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options: 1Yr Ltd Warranty, 1Yr Mail-In Service, and 1Yr Technical Support ST111RR [950-9057][950-3337][950-3550][412-0361][960-2780] 29

Memory: 512MB DDR SDRAM at 333MHz 2 Dimm 512MB2D [311-4263] 3

Video Card: 128MB ATI's™ Mobility Radeon™ 9700 ATI128 [320-4045] 6

CD ROM/DVD ROM: 8X DVD+/-RW Drive 8XDVDRW [313-2930][430-1050] 16

Hard Drive: 80GB Hard Drive 80GB [341-1603] 8

Primary Battery: 80 WHr 9-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery 9BAT [312-0283] 27

Document Management: Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 6.0 ADOBER [430-1048] 15

Dial-Up Internet Access: 6 Months of America Online Membership Included AOLDHS [412-0585][412-0625][420-3224][412-0687] 37

Wireless Networking Cards: Intel® PRO/Wireless 2100 Internal Wireless (802.11b, 11Mbps) IP2100 [430-0995] 19

Productivity Software: Productivity Pack including WordPerfect® ICORELM [412-0556][412-0714] 22

Security Software: No Security Subscription NS [412-0735] 25

Digital Music: Dell Jukebox - easy-to-use music player and CD burning software MMBASE [412-0691] 26

Dell Media Experience: Dell™ Media Experience DMX [412-0706] 115

Digital Imaging or Digital Photography: Paint Shop™ Pro® Trial plus Photo Album™ Starter Edition DPS [412-0521] 38

Personal Finance Software: Microsoft® Money 2004 Standard MNY [412-0552] 83

How to Contact Dell

I also noticed that you up-sold to the larger battery and to XP Pro instead of XP Home. You also included a second battery, a deluxe carrying case, and a 3 year on-site warranty and damage insurance.

Note that my quote is from the Dell "Home and HoOf Store", not from one of the Dell "Business" stores. The base features and options are different in the different stores. Your quote is apparently from one of the business stores (although I think that you made a mistake - I can only get your price by selecting the DVD-ROM instead of the DVD-+R/RW).

[thatwendigo]

I also noticed that you up-sold to the larger battery and to XP Pro instead of XP Home. You also included a second battery, a deluxe carrying case, and a 3 year on-site warranty and damage insurance.

I did up the battery and move it to XP Pro. The former is arguable, but the latter is essential if you at all want to compare to OS X in terms of stability and security model. I did nothing with warranties or insurance, so you can forget that.

Also, my price was gotten from clicking "Star Shopping Laptops" on the Dell "Home and HoOF Store." Repeating the experiment, including removing their loss-leading "refunds":

Dell.com > H&HoO > Notebooks > Start Shopping Notebooks

Inspiron 9200

The exact same as I did before, minus the upped battery:
Pentium M 1.6ghz
17" XGA screen
512MB RAM
128MB Radeon 9700 Mobile
8x DVD+/-RW
80GB 5400RPM
53Whr battery
Software packages (Acrobat Elements for PDF, burning, security, XP Pro, etc.)
Cost $2,567 (as of 9:37 AM 10/27/04)

[Squire]

First of all...
MacRumors Forums: The best way to procrastinate on your Mac.

As I stated above, I was only being half-serious in my comment - for people who are used to burning media in a matter of minutes, 45 minutes is definitely a long period of time to wait. Of course, I remember when I purchased my first 2x CD-R drive, (back when blank CD-Rs were $5 each!), and I didn't seem to mind waiting half an hour for a 650 MB disc to be burned... ;)

And probably sat watching the progress bar for at least half of the burn job, eh?

For a second there I thought you said you were "sick of reading all of our posts" - which would have probably made sense as well... ;) :cool:

Funny. I didn't catch it until reading your post.

Now...where the hell was I in that take-home exam?

Squire

[AidenShaw]

I did up the battery and move it to XP Pro. The former is arguable, but the latter is essential if you at all want to compare to OS X in terms of stability and security model. I did nothing with warranties or insurance, so you can forget that.

Also, my price was gotten from clicking "Star Shopping Laptops" on the Dell "Home and HoOF Store." Repeating the experiment, including removing their loss-leading "refunds":

Dell.com > H&HoO > Notebooks > Start Shopping Notebooks

Inspiron 9200

The exact same as I did before, minus the upped battery:
Pentium M 1.6ghz
17" XGA screen
512MB RAM
128MB Radeon 9700 Mobile
8x DVD+/-RW
80GB 5400RPM
53Whr battery
Software packages (Acrobat Elements for PDF, burning, security, XP Pro, etc.)
Cost $2,567 (as of 9:37 AM 10/27/04)

Hmmm, from the same page I get $1762 (what all is in the "etc" that you're adding?) And I *do* take the discount - wouldn't you? (Do you tell Uncle Sam to keep your tax refund?)

I'm curious - if you have the time go to "Print Summary" on the store page, and cut-n-paste the config text into a "code" tag. I'd like to compare what you're doing to what I had a couple of posts back...
_____________________


Anyway, a key point here is choice....

Apple give you one loaded config with a couple of options and a fairly steep price tag.

Dell give you a menu to choose what you need.

Want the fastest CPU, but don't want DVD burner and a big disk - tick the box for the 2.0 GHz (and add only $255).

Want a big disk and burner, but CPU is OK - tick the 100 GB box (add $169) and DVD ($169), but save money on the CPU.

Want the high resolution 1920x1200 screen, tick the box ($85) - or leave it blank and get the low resolution screen that matches what's in the PowerBook.

Don't need the network features of XP Pro, save $69 by choosing XP Home. (And I fail to see how you can justify Pro on the basis of stability - they're essentially the same code running on the same hardware with the same drivers. You'd want Pro for running on business networks, but most small home networks wouldn't need it.)
________________


Maybe when you cram both notebooks with options and software to reach some level of "equivalence" the price difference is small or non-existent - but Dell doesn't force you to take things that you might not want just to get the pieces that you do.

That's the big difference....

[CmdrLaForge]

I keep reminding my wife, though, that it's her computer and that mine will be introduced some time next year. ;)



Funny, I keep telling my wife exactly the same about our G3 iBook :D

[jderman]

I am itching to ditch my iBook G3 for a powerbook. Do any of you think its possible for a significant update (G4 Dual core or G5) by January?

[~Shard~]

I am itching to ditch my iBook G3 for a powerbook. Do any of you think its possible for a significant update (G4 Dual core or G5) by January?

In a word, no.

In a few more words, Apple has stated that there will be no PowerBooks revs until 2005. Even if they announce a new PowerBook before MWSF, a) it won't ship for months afterwards, and b) it probably won't be that major of a update, as a dual core or G5 revision will require a lot more time to implement.

If anything, Apple might announce something at MWSF, but again, due to shipping dates, people wouldn't have them in their hands for months afterwards. My guess is people will not have a significantly updated PowerBook in their hands until summer 2005, if they're waiting for dual core G4 or G5.

[MacSA]

In a word, no.

In a few more words, Apple has stated that there will be no PowerBooks revs until 2005. Even if they announce a new PowerBook before MWSF, a) it won't ship for months afterwards, and b) it probably won't be that major of a update, as a dual core or G5 revision will require a lot more time to implement.

If anything, Apple might announce something at MWSF, but again, due to shipping dates, people wouldn't have them in their hands for months afterwards. My guess is people will not have a significantly updated PowerBook in their hands until summer 2005, if they're waiting for dual core G4 or G5.

......that would make the interval between the last update at least 15 months :eek:

[MacSA]

......that would make the interval between the last update at least 15 months :eek: They could improve the Powerbooks without updating the processor - new LCD screens, more RAM and better graphics cards?

[~Shard~]

......that would make the interval between the last update at least 15 months :eek:

Please note my reply was in response to jderman's questions about significant updates to PBs in the near future, which is why I replied the way I did. Of course Apple will release an update before next summer, but as you said yourself, it may just be in the form of other, minor changes. Could there be a new PowerBook early next year? Yes. But if jderman is waiting for a significant upgrade as he indicated and inquired about, then he'll be waiting a lot longer. :cool:

[Prom1]

may I join in ladies & gentleman?

In addition, thanks to the PCI Express bus that we've added to the PowerBooks, we're now loading them with modular graphics, starting at the nVidia 6600 Mobile and going up.

How can graphics ever become modular in a laptop when the LCD's increased screen resolution is a virtual state as physical pixels are fixed?? I don't get how increasing graphics chips yourself in a laptop will result in tangible screen display improvements; can anyone elaborate please? (BTW wasn't this was the current PC Card slot supposed to offer when it was on the draft board?)

Look, you obviously have no understanding of what 64-bit computing is, how it works, or what it means, if you think it at all affects the general operating system or applications. When the label "64-bit" is applied to computers, it's talking about memory addressing and integer length in math, and that's it. Using 64-bit math and memory pointers will slow down most applications, rather than speeding them up, because you're unnecessarily moving larger hunks of data around.

Now isn't the first instance of 64-bit computing in Unix servers running scientific apps & databases (web-servers archiving lots of information along with a user database)? If I'm correct isn't 64-bit computing not only do what you mentioned above but if the OS along with the chip help actually make computing improvements for searches if the OS categorizes information like a database; something like Apple (Paul Schiffer) displayed at the last Macworld? That whole indexing system was great; but I can't help thinking if a webserver that stores numerous millions of dynamic pages with multiple users updating those pages; could be searched with info such as contact information for each and every user, and each and every city location for each and every topic......hmmm? Do you cache what I mean by this? Would this kind of 64-bit OS/Computer chip work in Tiger Server?

PowerBook would be cooler when you're not doing anything with it or just surfing the web, but the moment you do something processor-intensive, it goes nova. A single 970FX core running at speeds Apple has used is, at its coolest peak heat, approximately 30 watts (around 1.6ghz) and you face new issues with going dual-core. Surface area becomes very important, since you have to pull heat off a smaller space, and that means you'll have twice as much heat in the same amount of space. Without some kind of design miracle, a 970MP will be hotter than a single core and claiming that it's going in the PowerBook is just ridiculous.

Now this last bit has my mouth watering for the updates of the PowerBook.
Sure I too want SATA drives, and modular memory (if I can truely see tangible results once done), and faster more efficient cpus'; but I want a new internal chassis and shell design. Physics in check and without a 'design miracle' I think Apple should stop using metal (unless something that dissapates heat better than), and go for something more efficient in surface area like ceramic. If you have a seriously hot bath and climb out onto your ceramic floor - its still somewhat cool ON IMPACT! Heck the NASA Shuttle used it or some form of it on the under-belly of the craft. Now ceramic is still too brittle, but there must be something as strong tensile wise as Aluminum; cost moderately the same (I'm sure all of us wouldn't mind paying even $500 more for all PowerBook range if we can burn a DVD at 8x, play iTunes an running something intense like iMotion editing off the HDD without burning a new one in our laps!), while offering a cooler exterior (smooth to the touch) thats pleasing to the eye.

Maybe a whole new laptop concept is what we need. ;)

[thatwendigo]

How can graphics ever become modular in a laptop when the LCD's increased screen resolution is a virtual state as physical pixels are fixed?? I don't get how increasing graphics chips yourself in a laptop will result in tangible screen display improvements; can anyone elaborate please? (BTW wasn't this was the current PC Card slot supposed to offer when it was on the draft board?)

I don't think you really understand what I was talking about, and I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're an ESL (English Second Language) poster.

So, with that in mind, let me try to explain this to you in a bit more simple terms, so that we'll be more likely to reach some kind of common point. When I speak of modular graphics, you wouldn't be gaining in physical maximum resolution because the dot pitch of the actual LCD wouldn't change, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't use faster GPU cores. For example, I have a CRT on my desk in the other room that's now hooked up to a dual 1.8 G5 with a 9600XT. It used to be hooked up to a single 1.4 G4 with a GeForce 3, and now it's very, very much faster and better at redrawing the screeen even though the physical monitor I use hasn't changed.

If the PowerBook were to incorporate something similar to what Alienware is doing with the modular PCI graphics cards in laptops, you could speed up your performance without buying a new machine. If you think your graphics are too slow, you'd buy a new card and remove the old one from the machine so that you could slot in the replacement. It's just like what you do with upgrading a desktop machine, only it's starting to be possible in portables.

Does that make it clearer?

Now isn't the first instance of 64-bit computing in Unix servers running scientific apps & databases (web-servers archiving lots of information along with a user database)?

For the most part, 64-bit computing is really only beneficial to the scientific and engineering community. They use enough specialized, high-end systems and math that the investment is worth it in terms of memory (using more than 4GB per process) and the overhead for using larger pointers. Also, since they're likely to use integers that are 64 bits, it saves them and makes things more efficient because they're not carrying out two 32-bit operations in the place of one 64-bit.

This is unlikely to be true in the consumer space for some time, but the bitness of processors is being used as a way to push the update cycle while the gigahertz race flattens out.

If I'm correct isn't 64-bit computing not only do what you mentioned above but if the OS along with the chip help actually make computing improvements for searches if the OS categorizes information like a database; something like Apple (Paul Schiffer) displayed at the last Macworld? That whole indexing system was great; but I can't help thinking if a webserver that stores numerous millions of dynamic pages with multiple users updating those pages; could be searched with info such as contact information for each and every user, and each and every city location for each and every topic......hmmm? Do you cache what I mean by this? Would this kind of 64-bit OS/Computer chip work in Tiger Server?

I could be mistaken about the implementation in Tiger, but database-driven file systems have been done long before 64-bit addressing was really an issue. The reason that Spotlight works the way it does is thanks to a database and the journaled file system, which work together to have fast pointers to the location of multiple kinds of data. Instead of searching the entire hard drive, it merely scans the table.

Thus, it has nothing to do with the chip or the OS, per se.

Sure I too want SATA drives, and modular memory (if I can truely see tangible results once done), and faster more efficient cpus'; but I want a new internal chassis and shell design.

The shell is the least of Apple's worries, in this case. Everything you just dismissed as secondary is the primary concern when designed a professional system - processor, storage, and I/O. Especially in the case of a laptop, you need something power efficient, since power efficiency leads to heat efficiency, which in turn leads to a lessened need for cooling. This is one reason that Apple has stuck with the G4 for so long, and why Intel moved to the Pentium-M for their high-end portables.

A fast, efficient 32-bit processor will be better for a portable than a 64-bit one that's far hotter at lower clocks. It's that simple, unless there's something really bizarre done with the design.

[Chung Tech]

... Of course Apple will release an update before next summer, but as you said yourself, it may just be in the form of other, minor changes...

Any speculation of when the upgrade will occur, and what the upgrades will be?

What I'd like to see ... the power of the current 17" PB in the 12" (or new wide screen) form factor. i.e. 1.5GHz G4, Radeon 9700, expandable to 2G bytes memory and so on, with battery life equal or better than the current 12". Basically I want a very portable PB that is also powerful enough to be my only computer, for video editing, imaging manipulation, and software development. I plan to get a 20" cinema display with it and therefore do not need a big screen PB.

Am I dreaming? :rolleyes:

[~Shard~]

Any speculation of when the upgrade will occur, and what the upgrades will be?

What I'd like to see ... the power of the current 17" PB in the 12" (or new wide screen) form factor. i.e. 1.5GHz G4, Radeon 9700, expandable to 2G bytes memory and so on, with battery life equal or better than the current 12". Basically I want a very portable PB that is also powerful enough to be my only computer, for video editing, imaging manipulation, and software development. I plan to get a 20" cinema display with it and therefore do not need a big screen PB.

Am I dreaming? :rolleyes:

I don't know if all of what you have requested will happen, but it's definitely not improbable. The only issue with making the 12" on the same level of the 17" is then, what do you do to the 17"? ;) But yes, a better video card, more RAM, better battery life, marginal speed bump - all are realistic. As for when, perhaps 4 letters could answer that questions - MWSF.

I don't know though, of course - your guess is as good as mine. :cool:

[palusami]

man, i just bought my pb a few months ago. i have very little will power when it comes to apple products and may have to buy the latest upgrade!:p

[wdlove]

man, i just bought my pb a few months ago. i have very little will power when it comes to apple products and may have to buy the latest upgrade!:p

I wish you well in your quest. MWSF is two months away, so we will see what we shall see. My wife purchased a new 15" PowerBook one year ago. Don't have any plans of replacement for another two years.

[cnymike]

Like many others, I had the PB vs iBook dilemma. I had just bought my wife a 12" ibook, two weeks before the upgraded iBooks.
Was I a little peeved? Why yes I was, thanks for asking. But the speed bump was minimal I guess (if you can call 20% minimal). IT was the addition of the airport card that really steamed me. But I got my iBook from Amazon with a $150 rebate and the airport card cost $79 so I guess it's not all that bad for me.

But I needed a new laptop too. My trusty Pismo is a worthy computer in spite of it's age and processor speed. But I've got a gig of Ram in it and upgraded the HD a couple years ago, so it's been humming right along for me. Truth be told, I'm already having second thoughts about selling it. But I've got a buyer for $650 so I'm thinking nows as good a time as any to sell it. It's a bit over 3 years old and we all know about laptop life spans.

So since the iBooks got upgraded, I finally could not justify the $1000 price difference between the 14" loaded iBook and the 15" PB. I mean the 14" iBook now includes a Superdrive which was previously a $200 option and the 1.3 GHz processor is not too shabby. And Amazon still has the $150 rebate on it so for my money the 14" iBook is my choice.

I actually would have bought the 12" iBook but my failing eyes just couldn't deal with the small screen size. I'm hoping that the 14" iBook will alleviate that issue.

Anway, I'd have loved to get the PB but in the end, I just couldn't justify the extra $1000 in light of the iBook upgrade.

[aafuss1]

I don't think you really understand what I was talking about, and I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're an ESL (English Second Language) poster.

So, with that in mind, let me try to explain this to you in a bit more simple terms, so that we'll be more likely to reach some kind of common point. When I speak of modular graphics, you wouldn't be gaining in physical maximum resolution because the dot pitch of the actual LCD wouldn't change, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't use faster GPU cores. For example, I have a CRT on my desk in the other room that's now hooked up to a dual 1.8 G5 with a 9600XT. It used to be hooked up to a single 1.4 G4 with a GeForce 3, and now it's very, very much faster and better at redrawing the screeen even though the physical monitor I use hasn't changed.

If the PowerBook were to incorporate something similar to what Alienware is doing with the modular PCI graphics cards in laptops, you could speed up your performance without buying a new machine. If you think your graphics are too slow, you'd buy a new card and remove the old one from the machine so that you could slot in the replacement. It's just like what you do with upgrading a desktop machine, only it's starting to be possible in portables.

Does that make it clearer?



For the most part, 64-bit computing is really only beneficial to the scientific and engineering community. They use enough specialized, high-end systems and math that the investment is worth it in terms of memory (using more than 4GB per process) and the overhead for using larger pointers. Also, since they're likely to use integers that are 64 bits, it saves them and makes things more efficient because they're not carrying out two 32-bit operations in the place of one 64-bit.

This is unlikely to be true in the consumer space for some time, but the bitness of processors is being used as a way to push the update cycle while the gigahertz race flattens out.



I could be mistaken about the implementation in Tiger, but database-driven file systems have been done long before 64-bit addressing was really an issue. The reason that Spotlight works the way it does is thanks to a database and the journaled file system, which work together to have fast pointers to the location of multiple kinds of data. Instead of searching the entire hard drive, it merely scans the table.

Thus, it has nothing to do with the chip or the OS, per se.



The shell is the least of Apple's worries, in this case. Everything you just dismissed as secondary is the primary concern when designed a professional system - processor, storage, and I/O. Especially in the case of a laptop, you need something power efficient, since power efficiency leads to heat efficiency, which in turn leads to a lessened need for cooling. This is one reason that Apple has stuck with the G4 for so long, and why Intel moved to the Pentium-M for their high-end portables.

A fast, efficient 32-bit processor will be better for a portable than a 64-bit one that's far hotter at lower clocks. It's that simple, unless there's something really bizarre done with the design.


It's known as a MXM or AXIOM module-but there are currently no AGP versions of the M28/GF go 6800, and Apple would need a G4/G5 based PCI express chipset to use it.

[Benj]

I'm not important enough to print new posts, but all of this looks good:

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0411ppc.html

So, better G4 (?) early in 2005 and a bit more on the dual core and a portable G5.

[Squire]

I'm not important enough to print new posts, but all of this looks good:

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0411ppc.html

So, better G4 (?) early in 2005 and a bit more on the dual core and a portable G5.

Yeah, I was just reading that. Unfortunately, I think what ~Shard~ has been preaching will come true: Even if they announce a new PB at MWSF, nobody will have one in their hands until close to next summer.

Squire

[Sun Baked]

Yeah, I was just reading that. Unfortunately, I think what ~Shard~ has been preaching will come true: Even if they announce a new PB at MWSF, nobody will have one in their hands until close to next summer.

SquireThe Christmas shopping season is important, it's better to introduce new stuff right after Christmas to nail the people with spare cash.

But it's also important to actually ship product to people who want it under the tree.

Anything other than a speedbump would most likely mean a crimp in supply.

But there are no real low-power versions of the 90nm PPC970 yet, Apple really needs one in order to ship a decently fast G5 PowerBook.

Some think the PPC970GX may improve yield or be more of the same old problems with the 970FX... it's getting close enough that we'll see what happens next summer.

Of course Apple may elect to cram a G5 into the PowerBook like they did the original G4, and suffer with it until the low-power version comes along -- or simply go with Freescale, who may be able to deliver the next gen chip on time.

[MacSA]

From macOSXrumors:
http://www.macosxrumors.com/articles/?p=96

"Sources indicated that the new G4 processors that will be used in the next Powerbook line are based on the MPC7448 specifications and will run at clock speeds as high as 1.4Ghz for the entry and mid-level models and 1.6Ghz for high end models.

These new 0.09nm processors will feature 1Mb of cache and the system bus will reach 200MHz. The new Powerbooks should deliver 5 to 10% higher overall performance than the current PowerBook line while their processor will generate use less power and, by the way, should generate less heat."

5-10% isnt alot, especially after such a long wait for an update. Perhaps they'll offer other hardware improvements too, such as more RAM, better graphics cards etc.

[~Shard~]

Yeah, I was just reading that. Unfortunately, I think what ~Shard~ has been preaching will come true: Even if they announce a new PB at MWSF, nobody will have one in their hands until close to next summer.

Squire

Thanks Squire. ;) I still stand by that, and if I end up being wrong, hey, there's a first time for everything.... :p :cool:

If Apple decides to go with relatively minor updates for the next PB (i.e. marginal speed bump, no G5 or dual core G4, just RAM, video card, price drop, bigger HD, other features, etc.) then sure, perhaps MWSF will give us a new PB. But for a significantly revamped PowerBook with a G5/Dual Core G4, i.e. a significant upgrade, I still say by the time they're announced, promised a shipping date, then miss that shipping date by a month or so, the consumers will not have those PowerBooks in their hands until closer to summer 2005.

Only time will tell... :cool:

[~Shard~]

One other comment I thought I might as well make again, further to my above post...

The advent of the G5 iMac and the ability to squeeze a G5 into such a small enclosure is definitely encouraging for G5 PowerBooks hopefuls, however there is still a HUGE difference between cramming a G5 into a 2" enclosure and squeezing it even further into a 1" enclosure, a laptop half the size of the iMac. Throw in all the other issues as well which have been discussed a million times here and well, it will be no small feat.

I think Apple needs to give the PowerBook line a serious upgrade, and I'd like to see a G5/dual core G4 PowerBook as much as the next guy, but I'm trying to be realistic here... :cool:

[wdlove]

One other comment I thought I might as well make again, further to my above post...

The advent of the G5 iMac and the ability to squeeze a G5 into such a small enclosure is definitely encouraging for G5 PowerBooks hopefuls, however there is still a HUGE difference between cramming a G5 into a 2" enclosure and squeezing it even further into a 1" enclosure, a laptop half the size of the iMac. Throw in all the other issues as well which have been discussed a million times here and well, it will be no small feat.

I think Apple needs to give the PowerBook line a serious upgrade, and I'd like to see a G5/dual core G4 PowerBook as much as the next guy, but I'm trying to be realistic here... :cool:

Your candor is very much appreciated ~Shard~. If you are correct the wait for a new PowerBook could even be longer than the 2.5 G5. Wonder if there will be delays also?

[~Shard~]

Your candor is very much appreciated ~Shard~. If you are correct the wait for a new PowerBook could even be longer than the 2.5 G5. Wonder if there will be delays also?

Thanks wdlove, I always appreciate your comments as well. I would really like for Apple to wow us with a G5 PowerBook at MWSF, shipping immediately, but I just don't see it happening. As a result, the PowerBook line may not see a significant update for another 6 months. A minor update, yes, but major? It's just not in my crystal ball... :cool:

[maya]

With Apple clearly lying between they teeth, it is clear as day that PowerBook G5 is up for intro at MWSF 05. :)

The dual core G4 chips will make they way into the iBook line just as the G3 chips lingered in the iBook for some time before getting a G4 and the PM getting a G5.

This is history all over again and you can count on that. :)

What would be ironic is if a dual core G4 iBook is faster than a 1.8-2.0GHz PowerBook G5. :eek: ;) :)

[maya]

One other comment I thought I might as well make again, further to my above post...

The advent of the G5 iMac and the ability to squeeze a G5 into such a small enclosure is definitely encouraging for G5 PowerBooks hopefuls, however there is still a HUGE difference between cramming a G5 into a 2" enclosure and squeezing it even further into a 1" enclosure, a laptop half the size of the iMac. Throw in all the other issues as well which have been discussed a million times here and well, it will be no small feat.

I think Apple needs to give the PowerBook line a serious upgrade, and I'd like to see a G5/dual core G4 PowerBook as much as the next guy, but I'm trying to be realistic here... :cool:

You are forgetting that the iMac G5 has its PSU housed in the casing. That should reduce its weight and size down on a PowerBook G5.

SATA 2.5 inch HDD also smaller should reduce the size down.

Battery power I read sometime back that Apple was looking for a better vendor or more vendors for better battery for they iPod line maybe it also included the PowerBook G5 in testing phases.

The iMac G5 was released before the PowerBook G5 which means the PowerBook G5 still have a little more time to fine tune, and IBM new low powered G5 chips should also allow it to run cooler and consume less power.

Dimms are smaller for laptops anyhow so that is out of the way as well, and the optical mobile drives are now running at around 8x.

They have already proved that they can squeeze an lcd in a thin frame as with the PowerBook G4 AL.

I say it most likely can be done, shrink the AE card some more, with Apples keep tooting its Great Engineers I feel they can pull it off. If not its time to sell your Apple shares. :)

Remember the iMac G5 only has a thicker case because it has to hold in place the entire computer to the stand. Plus the acetate shell is also adding to it size, plus the iMac G5 screen is thinner than the frame that is provided. If you own or have seen an iMac G5 in flesh you would know what I am talking about.

In actual thickness I would say the iMac G5 though advertised as 1.99 inches thick would in actuality be ~1.5 - 1.7 inches thick just as thick as the PowerBook G3 Pismo. I do not see this as a step down however a step ahead and in the right direction while they can reduce the overall thickness when the G5 matures more down the road, do we remember the PowerBook G4 Ti. :)

Heat issues you can count on it, even the current iBook and PowerBook G4 have heat issues. So I do not see what all the fuss is all about. :cool:

[asif786]

I say it most likely can be done, shrink the AE card some more, with Apples keep tooting its Great Engineers I feel they can pull it off. If not its time to sell your Apple shares. :)

Seeing as all the iBooks now have Airport Extreme installed, I think Apple will work to make the chip smaller (maybe the size of a compactflash card or something) and then solder it directly onto the mobo. Think about how small those wifi cards for PDA's are.

Apple cant make all iBooks have wifi without doing the same for PB's...

/asif

[drsuse]

In actual thickness I would say the iMac G5 though advertised as 1.99 inches thick would in actuality be ~1.5 - 1.7 inches thick just as thick as the PowerBook G3 Pismo. I do not see this as a step down however a step ahead and in the right direction while they can reduce the overall thickness when the G5 matures more down the road, do we remember the PowerBook G4 Ti. :)

Heat issues you can count on it, even the current iBook and PowerBook G4 have heat issues. So I do not see what all the fuss is all about. :cool:

i think there would be a market for a pismo-sized g5 pb... for lots of people, that is not an unreasonable size at all.

[~Shard~]

i think there would be a market for a pismo-sized g5 pb... for lots of people, that is not an unreasonable size at all.

Judging from a lot of people on MacRumors (and elsewhere) I think there would be a market for any type of G5 PowerBook right now. ;)

[propropro]

Well, I'm a newbie in the "Apple World" so I wanted to make you a question: Do you think the price of the new powerbooks (if there are new PBs one of these days ;) ) will rise or will drop compared to the current ones? I'm planning to buy a Powerbook in the first half of 2005 (my first mac!) so the answer is important to me...
...and sorry for my poor english!

[Noiseboy]

Well, I'm a newbie in the "Apple World" so I wanted to make you a question: Do you think the price of the new powerbooks (if there are new PBs one of these days ;) ) will rise or will drop compared to the current ones? I'm planning to buy a Powerbook in the first half of 2005 (my first mac!) so the answer is important to me...
...and sorry for my poor english!

I would advise waiting until after MWSF before making a decision and then from there decide which laptop is going to fulfill your needs.
If the last PB updates are anything to go by then the price of the top of the range remains very similar, my Rev A TiBook was $3000 and my rev B 17 inch AlBook was virtually the same price two and a half years later. Whether that will be the case if/when a G5 PB is announced is open to speculation but I think Apple know well enough that they could price themselves out of the market if it were to cost much more than $3000.
Whatever you finally decide on I feel sure you will enjoy it, welcome.

[wdlove]

Well, I'm a newbie in the "Apple World" so I wanted to make you a question: Do you think the price of the new powerbooks (if there are new PBs one of these days ;) ) will rise or will drop compared to the current ones? I'm planning to buy a Powerbook in the first half of 2005 (my first mac!) so the answer is important to me...
...and sorry for my poor english!

Apple has been very good to its customers. They continue to update their products as expected. Then the price remains about the same and the purchaser gets a higher quality Mac.

[zelmo]

Apple has been very good to its customers. They continue to update their products as expected. Then the price remains about the same and the purchaser gets a higher quality Mac.

I agree. Look at the G5 iMac as a perfect example. The tech spec's are superior to the G4 variety, and they are priced favorably as well. I'd expect Apple to do no less when the new major rev to the PowerBook line is introduced.

[~Shard~]

I agree. Look at the G5 iMac as a perfect example. The tech spec's are superior to the G4 variety, and they are priced favorably as well. I'd expect Apple to do no less when the new major rev to the PowerBook line is introduced.

I agree - I believe Apple is at the stage where they could lower the price on the PowerBooks slightly as well as give them an overhaul. G5 iMac is the perfect example. :cool:

[propropro]

Thank you very much for the answers. I agree the iMac G5 is a good example of a nicely priced new product, but as I am a Mac newbie, I didn't know if it's always the same way when new products appear. But there are two things I'm sure about: first, the mac community is great ;) , and second, I can't be wrong if I buy a Mac (this I've learnt after using PCs for a long long time, too much time)

[drsuse]

Thank you very much for the answers. I agree the iMac G5 is a good example of a nicely priced new product, but as I am a Mac newbie, I didn't know if it's always the same way when new products appear. But there are two things I'm sure about: first, the mac community is great ;) , and second, I can't be wrong if I buy a Mac (this I've learnt after using PCs for a long long time, too much time)

good choice.

my dad has always used macs, i've owned two pcs because all the computers in my school were pcs and i was worried about compatibility, which turned out to never really be a big problem. i've been borrowing a 600mhz g3 imac from my school for video editing for nearly 2 yrs, and finally a couple months ago decided to start using it as my main computer, with an external monitor. couldn't be happier. i will probably give it back by the time i graduate in june, i'll be getting a 15" powerbook as soon as the new ones ship, regardless of whether it's a g4 or g5 or whatever. the current ones are certainly fast enough, just don't want to get left behind if i buy right before an update.

[VideoShooter]

...

[aswitcher]

I'm wondering what you guys think...
snip

I'm not in an incredible hurry.

Question is... How long after MWSF will the newest Pb's be available?

I'll use this laptop for atleast two years and use it for video editing quite a bit.

Wait. We expect some mention of the G5 PBs or to see revamped G4s.

As for delivery, who knows? But they could be ready to go straight away of they are revamped G4s.

Any new machine will be better in some regards which should have a positive impact on video work...100+ gig HDD, better speed/fsb, TV tuner, better battery life, and maybe even better screens

[VideoShooter]

...

[kingtj]

To an extent, this is true - but I'm not sure why somone really interested in a Macintosh would see this as a big negative?

1. On the PC side, you have two big competing CPU makers trying to outdo/outsell the other. This has resulted in a myriad of incremental CPU speeds and feature-sets, all offered at the same time - when in reality, there's not much "real world" difference unless you go from the low extremes to the upper extremes. (EG. My desktop PC is an Athlon 64 3000+. I could opt to spend another $150 or so and move up to a 3200+ or 3400+, but I've already compared these all and the difference between them is marginal, if you're not just fascinated by benchmark numbers.)

2. If you're really interested in an Apple laptop, you're probably largely interested because it runs OS X, not Windows. That means you really don't care what Dell is offering or how they've configured it, because it can't run your OS of choice anyway.

3. I'll agree with you that it'd be nice if Apple would start using the higher resolution LCD panels, and I suspect they will, eventually. They're not likely to be interested in offering either the "lower res/original panel" or the "new high-res panel" at the same time though. Why? Because they don't want to be put in situations where they have to stock large quantities of old parts long after they're out of production, just so they can use them for extended warranty work and "service replacement parts". Dell sells enough volume, this is probably less of a concern for them.

It seems to me like Apple has done a pretty good job of offering several configurations of each product line they've sold, which pretty well cover people's needs. You have to remember, some of these "options" are really dirt-cheap to put in a notebook anyway. IMHO, there's no reason to sell a laptop that doesn't have built-in wireless anymore. You can find OEM PCMCIA wi-fi cards for PCs for as little as $18.95 or so if you look around enough. You can spend more than that on simply upgrading your shipping from "3 day delivery" to "2 day delivery"! Same with Bluetooth support, really. The little add-on "dongles" aren't all that expensive, so people saying "I want to order my new laptop without Bluetooth and save some money!" aren't gonna really see much savings. And then, they're stuck with a laptop that's less desireable to many people when they try to resell it later....



Anyway, a key point here is choice....

Apple give you one loaded config with a couple of options and a fairly steep price tag.

Dell give you a menu to choose what you need.

Want the fastest CPU, but don't want DVD burner and a big disk - tick the box for the 2.0 GHz (and add only $255).

Want a big disk and burner, but CPU is OK - tick the 100 GB box (add $169) and DVD ($169), but save money on the CPU.

Want the high resolution 1920x1200 screen, tick the box ($85) - or leave it blank and get the low resolution screen that matches what's in the PowerBook.

Don't need the network features of XP Pro, save $69 by choosing XP Home. (And I fail to see how you can justify Pro on the basis of stability - they're essentially the same code running on the same hardware with the same drivers. You'd want Pro for running on business networks, but most small home networks wouldn't need it.)
________________


Maybe when you cram both notebooks with options and software to reach some level of "equivalence" the price difference is small or non-existent - but Dell doesn't force you to take things that you might not want just to get the pieces that you do.

That's the big difference....

[pugboy87]

Hi Folks.. Just a quick question does anyone have any information about the long awaited G5 powerbook, are we going to see one in the next few months maybe spring next year. Its just im going to the states to buy a new powerbook G4 17" and the last thing i wanna do is fly out to the usa and buy one fly back to the uk and find apple launches new G5 powerbook, any help on this matter would be great theres no point buying one hear as its nearly 3000 pounds which is 6000 dollars ???

[Mord]

i think you will find a 17" powerbook is £1950, and that is $3748 compared to the us price of 2799 which dose not include sales tax which is $3000 with sales tax, now when you take your powerbook you loose applecare so you have to buy uk applecare at £279 ($541) that gives a total of $3541 and remember import duty which you may have to pay as they may require you to present proof that you took the powerbook into the country.

otherwise good luck :)

[VideoShooter]

...

[~Shard~]

I just hope they don't announce a G5 that's 4 months away. I won't wait that long. That's for sure. Worst case scenario... they drop the price on my current config $300 I guess.

You realize though that if Apple does indeed announce some sort of G5 PowerBook (as unlikely as that is), that it will definitely not be shipping for 4 months out. As I've expressed before, I don't think we'll see a G5 PowerBook in the hands of users for quite some time.

I hope things turn out for you, but just remember, those who play the waiting game are always waiting!

[pugboy87]

i think you will find a 17" powerbook is £1950, and that is $3748 compared to the us price of 2799 which dose not include sales tax which is $3000 with sales tax, now when you take your powerbook you loose applecare so you have to buy uk applecare at £279 ($541) that gives a total of $3541 and remember import duty which you may have to pay as they may require you to present proof that you took the powerbook into the country.

otherwise good luck :)

Thanks Hector, Yea i see what your saying i do have some family in California. They are flying to the UK next summer so i may get them to bring it over, that way i wouldnt have to worry about customs or import duty. Its a lot of hassle, but the price in the UK compared to the US is a big rip off. The machines are the same and they support both UK & US voltage. Do you know of any stores in california i could try on the net to get some prices i found one and they quoted me $2569 including shipping and tax (If i bought it within the states). If a family member bought one, then fly it over for me when they visit UK it would then cost me around £1250 a saving of around £1700 it does seem worth the hassle unless apple bring out a G5 powerbook.

[Benj]

Yea i see what your saying i do have some family in California. They are flying to the UK next summer so i may get them to bring it over, that way i wouldnt have to worry about customs or import duty.

I'm afraid you would. Or they would. Not entirely sure your relatives would want to risk the rubber glove treatment by trying to smuggle a computer by customs..... (Not entirely sure I would ask my relatives to take that risk!)

[Eastend]

Well, I canceled my 17" G4 PB...

I'm waiting until MWSF before deciding to buy.

Truth is... if nothing's announced, I'll just buy the same old PB...


Truth is I also almost bought the 17in PB here in Japan, it's real cheap here now, Japanese like small not big. I too decided to wait for MWSF to see what comes out. However, I do not know about the states, but in Japan when the new comes out it is then next to impossible to find a new older model, they disappear or become expensive, probably because everyone wants it then.

Brian

[VideoShooter]

...

[evohe]

I'm afraid you would. Or they would. Not entirely sure your relatives would want to risk the rubber glove treatment by trying to smuggle a computer by customs..... (Not entirely sure I would ask my relatives to take that risk!)


I am from Spain and i bought my powerbook in California last summer. (and an iPod ;) ). No problem through customs, and i brought all the boxes. It would be bad luck if they make you open your suitcase, and if you left the boxes in California, you can always say its yours...

Ah!, and don't forget to get the tax refund when you get out of the US, if you're not an US citizen.

Enjoy your pb as much as i enjoy mine :)

[~Shard~]

Yep... I assume it won't be a G5 or a dual core... But hopefully announcable new specs, like a higher res screen and a bigger/faster HD...

A 2.0 Ghz G4 wouldn't get any complaints from me... But I assume something in the 1.7-1.8 range is more likely.

I'm hoping for MORE battery time. Something to compete with the centrino.


Those are all definitely possible around the MWSF timeframe - I hope it pays off for ya!

[VideoShooter]

...

[pugboy87]

I'm afraid you would. Or they would. Not entirely sure your relatives would want to risk the rubber glove treatment by trying to smuggle a computer by customs..... (Not entirely sure I would ask my relatives to take that risk!)

If your a american citizen and your coming to the uk for holiday's or business you would'nt have a issue when bringing the powerbook over, customs would only stop you if you were a uk citizen returning from the usa, but if your a american citizen coming to the uk and you had one laptop as part of your hand luggage they cant say anythink. Lots of people use laptops on flights it would be fine, but if fly out to the usa and bring one back there is a chance i would get stopped.

Gracias evohe,
Yea sounds like you did ok with the powerbook i dont want to risk it thou i think its easier to let a family member bring it over next year as part of there hand luggage in a laptop bag with the software and leave the boxes in the usa.

[Benj]

I thought we were discussing the legality of the action not its feasibility.

Yes, you can do it. Yes, it is illegal.

[Pringolian]

I know this has probably been said before, but.........

Are these slightly upgraded PowerBooks gonna be keynote worthy?

If they are such minor upgrades why were they not released quietly along with the iBook? Makes no sense to close the gap between the two portable machines just before the holidays and then go and upgrade it in Jan by 166/200mhz, it's not enough for the mobile-pro (POWERbook!) line.

If Apple are going the revision route, i expect they will release:
1.8Ghz G4 with minimal boost to the bus, higher res screen, 5400rpm drive as standard and the new 'whatevermakeitis' 7200rpm drive as an option.

Maybe with a slight revision in design too?

BUT and I must say BUT again...
It has also been mentioned that the G5 PowerBook is not as far off as you think... Announced in Jan, shipped in March (but delayed until April May :))

MWSF - It's going to be interesting.....
I expect the new revised PowerMac and G5 PowerBook to be available for Tigers release, and we all know that Steve is going to release Tiger earlier than previously stated on these sites (June, pushed forward to March?)