.Mac a success? [Archive] - MacRumors Forums

dongmin

Aug 15, 2002, 02:40 AM

Originally posted by Arcady
I don't believe this.

In any case, even if it is true... I don't think any revenue that .Mac might generate is worth the ill will and lost sales that Apple generated with this whole $100 a year fiasco.

If it is true, then people aren't as pissed off about it as you think. And if 45% translate into something like 1 million customers, then that's $50 mil of revenue with minimal additional cost for Apple. If I was a shareholder, I'd be pretty siked.

Personally, I think $50 is a pretty fair price for what you get. My only real complaint is that iDisk is not particularly fast. I sure hope they fix it.

liven2

Aug 15, 2002, 03:05 AM

I got mine the week it came out! Get used to it folks everything online is going to be this way some day! .mac will offer more in the future and it will continue to grow and become better. Lets see where things are in a year.

If you had an account before, your first year of 45 bucks and I feel that is worth it. The 100MB of disk space rocks and it is much faster in 10.2 since I am running GM (c115). It is not perfect but it is very nice and very worth it to me.

STOP all your whinning and go buy a PC and do the .NET thing instead like that is going to be any better. OR support the company that you feel is going to be the next big thing of the future...

Yes, change is painful but Apple needs to make money and I want to see them grow and remain profitable even when the other ones are losing money year end and year out!!!

WHAt a bunch of BABIES!!!!!:p

BobVB

Aug 15, 2002, 03:22 AM

Originally posted by dongmin

If it is true, then people aren't as pissed off about it as you think. And if 45% translate into something like 1 million customers, then that's $50 mil of revenue with minimal additional cost for Apple. If I was a shareholder, I'd be pretty siked.

Considering how many people still have dialups, and only the email is useful to them I am very incredulous. Of the 12 iTools users I know only one has any plans on getting .mac.

Oh, I just thought of something - they may be counting many $10 a year email only accounts. I know the guy who is getting the .mac is letting people pay him $10 to keep their email.

Arcady

Aug 15, 2002, 03:40 AM

Originally posted by liven2
I got mine the week it came out! Get used to it folks everything online is going to be this way some day! .mac will offer more in the future and it will continue to grow and become better. Lets see where things are in a year.

First of all, it is $49, not $45. Secondly, why in the HELL would you pay for something that is still free for another 6 weeks? You just lost 6 free weeks of iTools for no reason at all.

And who cares what is coming next year. You can buy your own domain with more web space and more bandwidth for less per year. iTools/.Mac homepages are ************ because if you use it like Apple says, by putting a pew QuickTime movies and some images on there, as soon as 3 or 4 of your friends look at it, it shuts off and says you exceeded your bandwidth.

Nonsense.

iwantanewmac

Aug 15, 2002, 05:12 AM

Originally posted by kansast
I would have already signed up.. but it seems to me that a lot of the features of .mac would only really be helpful if I had a decent internet connection. I'm stuck with ISDN and nothing better is available in my area.

I like having the mac.com email address, but the larger hard drive space and some other features just don't do me much with a slow connection.

Don't count on it.
I have ADSL and my oh my it's sloooooooooooww. Did any1 say slow? :)
.slow was/is a good name. Who thought of that?

sparkleytone

Aug 15, 2002, 05:15 AM

Originally posted by Shrek
With such high prices on Macintosh computers, .Mac should be FREE as an incentive--a thank you for buying a Macintosh. Why isn't it?! :mad:

i'm sure we'll see a promotion like that soon. something like buy a mac and .Mac and get $100 rebate.

iwantanewmac

Aug 15, 2002, 05:17 AM

alex_ant

Aug 15, 2002, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by iwantanewmac

Maybe you have a pile of cash somewhere in your closet.
We are NOT whining. They said it would be free for life.
ah but that's typically apple.
Maybe you feel that it's worth the money.
I certainly don't.
Actually, I don't think they ever said iTools would be free for life. Free maybe, but not free for life. That would have been really stupid of them. In fact, I'll bet that if you look in the iTools Terms of Service, you'll see something to the extent of "Apple reserves the right to cancel or amend the terms of this service at any time."

Not that I think the $100/year idea with no option to subscribe to just the email service isn't dumb...

awrc

Aug 15, 2002, 07:55 AM

I don't believe it - and before anyone starts throwing around terms like "whining babies (interesting how the primary tactic of the pro-.Mac lobby appears to be throwing insults around rather than presenting their case rationally), I decided the features are worth it to me and paid for it a couple of weeks back. I have .Mac. It was worth it to me. I can, however, see how somebody who only uses the e-mail address might consider $100 a year for a bunch of stuff they don't use rather steep.

Reason I don't believe it is that in an interview shortly after .Mac was announced (sorry, can't remember the source, might have been on the CNet site) an Apple exec was quoted as saying they were aiming for a 10% uptake rate i.e. they were expected to retain 10% of iTools users as .Mac customers.

So we've got Apple expecting a 10% uptake rate, yet I'm supposed to believe that Apple exceeded their own expectations by 450% despite the volume of complaint that arose? Oh, and throw in all those people who plan to sign up but are holding u\off until the very last minute so they get the most out of their trial accounts, and the numbers seem even more unbelievable.

One possible explanation I can think of is they they're counting each converted .Mac e-mail address as a customer. So a family that had five accounts, turned one into a full account and the rest into e-mail only would be counted as 5 conversions, but would bring in $140 rather than $500.

Al

awrc

Aug 15, 2002, 08:39 AM

Originally posted by liven2
I got mine the week it came out! Get used to it folks everything online is going to be this way some day!

Unusually expensive? While I agree that we're going to see more and more services becoming subscription based, with the exception of the $49 introductory fee, .Mac is rather overpriced for what it offers (except possibly for those users whose needs mean that they squeeze every last possible bit of use out of those 100MB).

It's also the case that in the majority of services that *have* become subscription-based, they've had the sense to offer a "lite' version for free, to act as a draw to potential new customers. The problem with .Mac trial accounts is that the feature that most people have been using in iTools accounts (the mac.com e-mail address) isn't exactly something you can usefully try out for 60 days, it's more of an all-or-nothing proposition. It's like offering a subscription to an online newspaper that lets you read the gardening, financial and lifestyle sections, but only contains month-old information in the current affairs section. It's there so that you can see what it looks like, but not actually a lot of use. Oh, and the sports section is off-limits completely until you sign up for the full thing. Once the initial group of former iTools trial accounts expire, most people using the trial will be doing it to investigate iDisk and Backup.

Personally speaking, $49 *was* enough to justify signing up for me (and for those who wonder why I didn't wait until later, I was doing a system rebuild and expected rather more of the Backup program than it actually delivered - my bad, really, given the "quick and easy to use" nature of most .Mac services, a reasonably powerful backup program was too much to expect). I also have a hunch that by this time next year they might have added enough (*) to .Mac to make the $100 worth paying then.

Al

(*) Assuming all these additional .Mac services they promise don't all turn out to be "for only an additional $25 a year..."

topicolo

Aug 15, 2002, 09:07 AM

jayscheuerle

Aug 15, 2002, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by liven2
I got mine the week it came out! Get used to it folks everything online is going to be this way some day! .mac will offer more in the future and it will continue to grow and become better. Lets see where things are in a year.

If you had an account before, your first year of 45 bucks and I feel that is worth it. The 100MB of disk space rocks and it is much faster in 10.2 since I am running GM (c115). It is not perfect but it is very nice and very worth it to me.

STOP all your whinning and go buy a PC and do the .NET thing instead like that is going to be any better. OR support the company that you feel is going to be the next big thing of the future...

Yes, change is painful but Apple needs to make money and I want to see them grow and remain profitable even when the other ones are losing money year end and year out!!!

WHAt a bunch of BABIES!!!!!:p

Stop being silly. The folks who are signing up are too lazy to hunt down a service which can give you the same thing for 10% of the price.
.Mac cannot be compared to .NET. .NET's vision was far grander and offered much more. The only thing the simplistic .Mac has in common with .NET is the ".".

If everyone bought into every foolishly overpriced service in the name of "want to see them grow and remain profitable", then the companies could charge a thousand bucks and watch the suckers line up. Fortunately people don't seem to be that stupid, yet. Apple is not offering a $100 product. It's not even a $50 product. Of course, the same could be said for their machines, but Apple has never been about value, so why start now?

bbarnhart

Aug 15, 2002, 09:16 AM

One reason why iDisk may be slow is upload speeds for DSL and cable modems is not nearly as fast as dowload speeds. Same is true for v.90 56k phone modems.

bbarnhart

Aug 15, 2002, 09:20 AM

This number may be accurate for several reasons. Apple knows that people create 'throw-away' accounts all the time. If an account is not active, they aren't going to considered it as a baseline for the 45% conversion rate.

Also, people may have paid-up without knowing you can wait until late Sept. when your trial period runs out. I doubt most people keep tabs on what is going on with Apple like we do.

Foocha

Aug 15, 2002, 09:37 AM

I think it's fine for Apple to charge what they like for the service - people can take it or leave it. I do believe, however, that Apple should have given people with e-mail accounts a little more notice in order for them to make alternative arrangements. I think 6 months would have been more appropriate notice period.

I'm a self confessed Apple fan, and I don't like to see them failed, so personally I think it's good news if they have achieve so much on this so soon.

jelloshotsrule

Aug 15, 2002, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by Arcady
And who cares what is coming next year. You can buy your own domain with more web space and more bandwidth for less per year. iTools/.Mac homepages are ************ because if you use it like Apple says, by putting a pew QuickTime movies and some images on there, as soon as 3 or 4 of your friends look at it, it shuts off and says you exceeded your bandwidth.

the fact is, .mac is not for professionals or probably even prosumer types, which many of the people here are..

if you were to get your own domain, it'd be cheaper. and you'd get more space. and more email addresses..

but would you be able to load your latest vacation photos onto a web page with a few clicks?

now, these prefab web pages aren't great, they're cheesy and easy. that's all. but guess what, the regular consumer generally can't create a web page. so maybe throw a bit more money out as an expense to hire a web designer... then the 99/49 bucks makes more sense.

personally, i consider myself a prosumer type and wouldn't pay for it as of now. but for those who can't make their own pages, etc. it makes sense.

also, i am certain the bandwidth issue is not there when you pay for .mac. anyone confirm this?

i think there should be a free/cheap email only option. but oh well..

QuiteSure

Aug 15, 2002, 10:03 AM

I'm surprised at the 45% figure as well; like many others (I suppose), I'm waiting for Jaguar to come out so that I can see how the new features coordinate with my trial version of .mac. If I find that these new features truly add value to my mac-using experience, I will probably buy.

medea

Aug 15, 2002, 10:14 AM

Actually, everbody signed up for .mac just so they could bitch about it on the support forums....
I'm happy with it really, and cant wait for the rest of the iApps to come out.

MacArtist

Aug 15, 2002, 10:38 AM

Show me a service where as Joe consumer I can:

•without going into the accounts section of Mail, automaticly use my email
•with a single click the mouse put my family photos online so grandma can view
them from across the country
•even with ease (and one day with a single click of the mouse) put a video online for grandma to see
•easily create a fairly nice website without having to know HTML or a web development application
•get easy access to some third party updates, demos, and drivers without having to search the web
•get an anti-virus application
•have an easy way to set up online file sharing
•get at least 15MB of storage for my first email account
•get at least 100MB of online storage for the family photos and videos

Yes some of you may not use all of these things and others may b***h about the bandwidth limits of homepage but this service is for the general consumer.
If you need a higher bandwidth limit for your sight then you should go and find a professional hosting service.

If you only want an email account then go out and find an email only service, .Mac is set-up for the general consumer so they don’t have to go out and find these services themselves.

If you are complaining about the speed of upload and download from iDisk, I know of two ways to make it quicker, you can use the WebDav feature in Adobe Golive or a shareware app called Goliath which also uses WebDav.

And all I have to say to those of you still b***hing about the so called “iTools free for life” garbage,
apple terms and conditions
” Apple may change, add or remove any part of this Agreement, or any part of the .Mac services and features, including price, at any time. If it does so, Apple will post such changes on the .Mac site. IF ANY FUTURE CHANGES ARE UNACCEPTABLE TO YOU, YOU SHOULD DISCONTINUE USING .Mac. YOUR CONTINUED USE OF .Mac NOW, OR FOLLOWING THE POSTING OF NOTICE OF ANY SUCH CHANGES, WILL INDICATE YOUR ACCEPTANCE OF THIS AGREEMENT, AND ANY SUCH CHANGES.

…Apple may change, suspend or discontinue any (or all) aspects of .Mac at any time, including the availability of any .Mac feature or content.”

The terms and conditions were fairly similar for iTools

sfoalex

Aug 15, 2002, 10:44 AM

I bought a huge dot mac account. I like IMAP based email and dot mac not only offers a large iDisk, they also offer up to a 200 MB IMAP email storage account. I can leave all my mail on dot mac, use any computer I want and see every sinle mail folder, every singe sent message, everything without configuring anything other then my name and address for standard clients or just using the web browser.

The storage is very handy for me as well. The new idisk tools lets me set access to the iDisk where people can leave me files too large to send via email.

Yeah you could argue the same could be done for less with a domain account and I could use my own domain name. I just find those more of a hassle. Dot mac has been very easy and for broadband sDSL users such as myself the service is great.

alex_ant

Aug 15, 2002, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by bbarnhart
One reason why iDisk may be slow is upload speeds for DSL and cable modems is not nearly as fast as dowload speeds. Same is true for v.90 56k phone modems.
But it's slow on my university 10Mbps connection (uncapped upload/download) as well.

luiss

Aug 15, 2002, 11:11 AM

These are conversions. The truth it for many it seems that .Mac is worth $50/year. I know many users, including my wife, who thought it resonable to at least pay for the first year. It will be interesting to see how many people renew thier .Mac account next year at $100. Hopefully they won't misunderstand this conversion success as a reason to rasie prices.
I wonder how many new subscribers, paying $100/year as of now there are?

Dephex Twin

Aug 15, 2002, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by Shrek
With such high prices on Macintosh computers, .Mac should be FREE as an incentive--a thank you for buying a Macintosh. Why isn't it?! :mad:
Because the thank-you for buying is that you get a Macintosh. Bandwidth, maintenance, and disk space for something like .Mac is ongoing and costly. While I'd like to see it a bit cheaper (like $49.99 *normal* price), it's a bit unreasonable to expect them to make it free for all time, IMO.

mark

Dephex Twin

Aug 15, 2002, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by jayscheuerle

.Mac cannot be compared to .NET

That's because nobody knows exactly what .NET is! :)

And besides, just recently Gates told a gathering of industry bigwigs that Microsoft gave its massive .NET effort a grade of "C." (http://www.osopinion.com/perl/story/18980.html)

I'd say everyone is still trying to work this whole thing out. I hope .Mac works out well.

mark

jayscheuerle

Aug 15, 2002, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by MacArtist
The terms and conditions were fairly similar for iTools

Actually, what iTools said was that you .mac email address was yours, free, for life. Just the address, not the account. If you ever come back, that name can be yours again. AOL does the same thing.

Of course, the address without the account is useless, but it's free, and yours, for life....

groundhog troll

Aug 15, 2002, 12:23 PM

.cow :D

Rower_CPU

Aug 15, 2002, 12:31 PM

iDisk is MUCH faster in 10.2, making Goliath unneccesary.

No reason to complain about that in a few weeks.:p

MhzDoesMatter

Aug 15, 2002, 12:39 PM

Kinda surprised no one has suggested it yet, but if 45% is the number Apple is tossing around, maybe its because they're still only expecting 10% of the total user-base. Which means they're at 45% of that 10%. Or 4.5% of their previous total user-base. That wouldn't surprise me at all, because of all the people that will pay, 1/2 of them aren't really that quick enough to know that they're losing over a month of preview time. While the other half is slick enough to milk everylast day out of it.

Truth Hertz....

MacArtist

Aug 15, 2002, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by jayscheuerle

Actually, what iTools said was that you .mac email address was yours, free, for life. Just the address, not the account. If you ever come back, that name can be yours again. AOL does the same thing.

Of course, the address without the account is useless, but it's free, and yours, for life....

That may be true about the yourname@mac.com being yours for life, but as it clearly states in every Apple Terms and Conditions agreement Apple may change, suspend or discontinue any (or all) aspects of the agreement at any time, to paraphase a little.

And yeah it sucks when the agreement does get changed, but that's the nature of the beast.

And you're right, an address is useless without the acount.

All of you whiners should really start reading the T&C of your software and services before you complain about something.

jayscheuerle

Aug 15, 2002, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by MacArtist

Apple may change, suspend or discontinue any (or all) aspects of the agreement at any time, to paraphase a little.

Yeah, girlfriends can do the same, but that doesn't earn them much respect either....javascript:smilie(';)')

kiwi_the_iwik

Aug 15, 2002, 02:00 PM

I was always lead to believe that iTools was free for life.

That's fine with Apple who loosely translated this to mean the life of iTools...

:mad:

I'm not paying on principle - screw 'em.

nero007

Aug 15, 2002, 02:05 PM

I was pissed about the whole .Mac thing. Then I read an article on O'Reilly Dev Center explaining all the goodies that come with .Mac and I have to say I think it is a good idea with a lot of potential. If I had $50 to drop right now, I could see putting it into this service.

http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2002/08/09/homemade_dotmac.html

TylerL

Aug 15, 2002, 02:40 PM

Ugh.
If you want RESULTS and you want at least mac.com e-mail to be free, start a class-action lawsuit.
Obtain UNDENIABLE PROOF that someone at Apple said (like Jobs at a Macworld or something) or wrote that iTools services would be free for life.
Start a list of iTools members interested in joining the lawsuit.

It got results for old iMac owners over DVD performance, why not try it for .mac?

Whining - especially on a unofficial Apple message board - will get you nothing.

Gelfin

Aug 15, 2002, 03:03 PM

Arn's comment about throw-away accounts made me think back to when I was working for the idiotic defunct web services dot-com some time ago. Any such usage statistics, in my experience, would be based strictly on the active userbase, generally defined as something like "people who have logged in within the past month." I think it's probably safe to exclude the people who set up an iTools account and never used it. Admittedly, statistics being what they are, it's reasonable to assume that they adjusted their definition of "active user" until they got a conversion rate they were happy with. This is the kind of thing marketing drones are paid to do.

As far as paying for it, I personally went ahead and upgraded. $49 is not an unreasonable price for what they're offering right now (100MB of download space, with no stated bandwidth restrictions, is by itself worth more than $49/year as an augmentation to my existing web hosting elsewhere). They've promised more services over the coming year, and in a year I'll reevaluate whether the services they offer at that time are worth $99. With regard to my decision to upgrade now instead of in six weeks, I thought about it, and the bottom line difference between the two is less than ten bucks. Big deal. I plop down three times that on a whim to buy a DVD. Maybe some of you (particularly students) don't have that kind of cash lying around, and in that position I would wait too. But the way things stand right now, it just doesn't bother me all that much.

Nebrie

Aug 15, 2002, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by iwantanewmac

Maybe you have a pile of cash somewhere in your closet.
We are NOT whining. They said it would be free for life.
ah but that's typically apple.
Maybe you feel that it's worth the money.
I certainly don't.

Please stop saying "free for life" when to date, not a single person has managed to produce any hard evidence that they said so.

kiwi_the_iwik

Aug 15, 2002, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by Nebrie

Please stop saying "free for life" when to date, not a single person has managed to produce any hard evidence that they said so.

Ugh...

Apple said your e-mail was "free for life". Essentially, it WAS.

BUT...

It was only FREE for the life of iTools, which has now ceased...

And THAT is how they can get away with it. They basically broke no promises, so their statement still stands true. It's just unfortunate that we didn't read into their statement's ambiguity.

DavidRavenMoon

Aug 16, 2002, 02:41 AM

Originally posted by Arcady
I don't think any revenue that .Mac might generate is worth the ill will and lost sales that Apple generated with this whole $100 a year fiasco.
Actually I think any revenue generated is going towards paying for all the bandwidth, disk storage, electricity used, etc. Does anyone have any idea how much this must cost Apple a month??
:eek:

DavidRavenMoon

Aug 16, 2002, 02:54 AM

Originally posted by iwantanewmac

Maybe you have a pile of cash somewhere in your closet.
We are NOT whining. They said it would be free for life.
ah but that's typically apple.
Maybe you feel that it's worth the money.
I certainly don't.

They never said it would be free for life. Find where they said that. Steve said something like it's your email address for life, meaning that if you switch ISPs, you still have your mac.com email address. iTools was free, but it's been discontinued. .Mac is not iTools.

And that pile of cash is about $8.33 a month, or .27 a day. I don't know about you, but I sometimes spend more than $8 a day on lunch, and surely more than $8 a week on stupid stuff.

I think Apple should drop the price to $50 a year, and at either price should let people pay monthly, not in one big payment. But no one is forcing us to pay for it if we dont want it. I'm still on the fence on this one, but I'll probably do the $50 for the first year and see what's next.

solvs

Aug 16, 2002, 04:21 AM

Originally posted by liven2
WHAt a bunch of BABIES!!!!!:p

Oh goody, here we go again.

Anyone who says something bad about Apple is a troll, anyone who defends them is a zealot.

And we're all whiny babies because we think this isn't right.

Look, we all agree that you get a lot for what you pay for, but for all of those who just wanted e-mail, it's way too much. And technically you can get the same or similar features with your ISP or Web Site host. It's just not as cool.

For the record, it was "e-mail for life". Free was only mentioned at the time. Nothing said "Free for life". Very carefully worded, but kinda shady and easily misunderstood. I don't like the way Apple did this, and like it or not (Zealots, I'm talking to you) a lot of people are (rightfully) pissed and mistrustful of a company that seemed to be trying really hard to try to steer people away from a company often accused of this same type of thing.

Sure 10.2 and .Mac are worth the price, but people feel like they've been suckered (I've heard terms like bait-and-switch a lot lately) and rightly so. No upgrade path, and "guess what, unless you pay us $50 (and $100 every year after that), you don't have a .Mac e-mail anymore". Yours for life, if you pay for it.

If you don't like whining, don't come here. You're the troll if you say stupid (yes, I said stupid. You called us names, I'm lowering myself to your level. Are you happy now?) things like that and expect NOT to get flamed. It's my $$$, I'll spend it how I want, where I want, when I want, (when I can). $100 PER YEAR can be a lot for some people. Plus ISP, sometimes site hosts, phone charges, etc. Macs are expensive enough as it is, not all of us have money to throw around, especially in these hard times.

I love Apple computers, but Apple Computers are still a large, greedy corporation that can suck sometimes with their idiotic business tactics. And they should stop pissing off their users, new and old. You're a business, besides making money now, you want people to be happy with you so you can make money later. At least if M$ pisses people off, you can just build your own El Cheapo with Linux, or old copies of Win 9x, and they still have a billion customers. Apple doesn't have this luxury.

And for the record, I won't be getting .Mac, but I love the new Towers. Even if they do look funny.

And for the love of God, STOP telling people to go buy a PC if they don't like it. YOU'RE NOT HELPING. Duh. Because that's exactly what they do. We want people to buy Macs. And we want people to whine and b*tch and complain about stuff they don't like. Vote with your $$$ people. Do we really want Apple to grow complacent and take us for granted and turn into (shudder) an M$ like Monopoly? Complain people. That's how we get better stuff cheaper (how else do you think we got the iMac, or the eMac for that matter, in the first place?).

Now shut the fsck-y up.

Unless you're b*tching, then go right on ahead.

moomin

Aug 16, 2002, 04:48 AM

.MAC is expensive right....

what is it worth.... 20 50 bucks

Soon apple add a new feature, and another and another...

should they charge 20 now and raise it by 10 bucks every time they add a feature...

Of course not

It'll get better and the price will stay the same

If you don't want it thats your choice but I bet by this time next year it'll be a whole lot more enticing....

pianojoe

Aug 16, 2002, 05:12 AM

Can anybody point out an independent source for that quotation "It will be free for life?"

45% is nonsense. This is not an official Apple statement. Maybe they're brushing up their math by only counting, let's say, users who used iTools, say, every day. Now, if I do this, it's obivous that I might upgrade to the pay-version.

I think the pricing is not that bad. However, I don't neet .mac because I already have webspace, my own domains, and an affordable, blazingly fast, and reliable ISP. The additional @mac.com email address "was nice, but now it's gone". And I don't see the bandwidh issues with iTools (over here in Europe) resolved in Jaguar.

Besides, I'm amazed and delighted that most content and services on the internet are free. From what I know, those people who provide the content, and the services, need to eat, don't they?

Just my $0.02.

skunk

Aug 16, 2002, 05:31 AM

As I see it, the Apple Financial guys (and girls) who were sent a copy of the press releases etc would have been in dereliction of their duty if they hadn't said "Look, you mustn't EVER say 'free for life' because there's no telling what you'll be letting us in for. BE CAREFUL!" That's why you won't find the incriminating quotes.
And secondly, if it was going to be actually free until hell freezes over, why would they ever improve it or add new features? If Apple rolls out a few more features into the standard $100 mix, it will be well worth much more money by the time the full-price becomes due, and I expect those features will add value and functionality to many existing applications as well.

dwishbone

Aug 16, 2002, 09:08 AM

i have to disagree with these figures. 45% may convert over before the trial expires, but certainly not by now.
if 45% have converted now, I would figure almost every iTools user has paid up. this goes more towards Apple's rather "inflated" number of users speculation. I myself had 4 iTools accounts, which I am cutting back down to two come September (one full paid service and one email only conversion).
45% maybe an accurate figure of how many users will switch. .Mac feedback in general has been pretty good lately as people are starting to get over and rationalize the fees. People are figuring out the value of .Mac and getting over that initial sticker shock.
I do plan on paying the $50 bucks for the first year. I have a feeling that .Mac will evolve over the next year into someting fantastic. If it doesn't then I will just move my email and web site elsewhere and not pay the $100 renewal fee.

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

j763

Aug 16, 2002, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by jayscheuerle

.Mac cannot be compared to .NET

I agree. I'm tired of hearing the let-apple-charge-us-more-money ppl saying "use .NET if you don't like .mac"... Because that just shows how ignorant they are... .NET is not just Hotmail... .NET is not MSN. .NET is a collection of frameworks which allow companies to offer their own Web Services...

.NET is completely different to .Mac

The thing that they've got in common (besides the dot) is that they won't work. Period.

Needless to say I'm not a .Mac sucke.... er......subscriber. Apple comes out with some great products (Jaguar, iBook, eMac, xserve etc.) and they also come out with sh:eek:t products too (Cube, AppleWorks, MacOS 8&9 etc.)

skunk

Aug 16, 2002, 10:13 AM

Hey, leave the Cube out of it, will you!

iwantanewmac

Aug 16, 2002, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by moomin
.MAC is expensive right....

what is it worth.... 20 50 bucks

Soon apple add a new feature, and another and another...

should they charge 20 now and raise it by 10 bucks every time they add a feature...

Of course not

It'll get better and the price will stay the same

If you don't want it thats your choice but I bet by this time next year it'll be a whole lot more enticing....

ok let's remember this......the price will stay the same........remember.

skunk

Aug 16, 2002, 05:57 PM

Yes, that's what worries me: it's really a leap of faith, and I personally think it's a bit foolish to have faith in corporations. We shall see....

AmbitiousLemon

Aug 16, 2002, 08:04 PM

when i first heard the .mac announcment, i thought seems fair enough, not anything i will use but still not bad. so some people lost their email accounts, that sucks for them, but they can get an email only for $10 a year.

there is no other service like .mac. some places offer web space, but its not easy to use and integrated like the idisk is. and it is not as cheap.

no one has backup software like .mac. its really nice. it is the only reason i signed up early. i figured $50 for a nice backup app and a free year of .mac.

virus software ... well i dont care about that since im not paranoid, but im sure some people will sleep better at night with free virus protection.

streaming media from your website, and point and click ability to use it and share photos.

sure you can get a shared web host for ~8.30 a month (same as .mac) but all you get is some web space very little bandwidth and access via ftp. and you certainly couldnt stream media on it. you wouldnt get backup software. you wouldnt get virus software. you would have to know how to create a webpage and use ftp to make a website for yourself.

if you actually price it out .mac is an incredible deal even if it is not for you. so if you lost your email account and are angry, i understand. but dont try to pretend .mac isnt giving good services at a good price. and at the discounted first year price you couldnt even get web space for that cheap ($4.16/month).

i think when a lot of you get jaguar and wipe your drive to install it, you will find it sure would have been nice to have good backup software. having 100mb of disk space you can access from anywhere is also pretty nice. (jack you wouldnt have to keep putting stuff on ambitiouslemon.com ;) )

i think the only thing apple could have done is allow people to get email only for $10 without attaching it to someone else's .mac account. but i guess they thought a lot of people would sign up since they wanted to keep their email address and the money from that outweighed upsetting a few people. but i think having people who have .mac email addresses available to be tempted to buy .mac would have been pretty nice. only time will tell if it was a good move by apple, just like the $100 imac price hike which destroyed sales ruining what could have been apple's best selling product ever. many claimed it would benefit apple, but in the end it was a disaster. although i guessed the imac thing would be a disaster i think .mac wont be.

jaykk

Aug 16, 2002, 08:56 PM

Did anyone read this article on SlashDot (http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=36731&cid=3951928)
i think i posted this before as well..

"Some columnist recently pointed out that Apple achieved in one stroke everything MS is trying to achieve with .NET, by announcing iCal [apple.com] and iSync [apple.com] last week at MacWorld. Those two programs allow users of Mac OS X Jaguar to connect their PDAs, cell phones and desktop PIM software to a single database and publish them on the Internet, connect with the calendars of others, and resolve conflicts between the two.

In other words, while Microsoft spent two years talking about Web services and technologies, Apple quietly went about actually building them into a program its users will want to use. MS has been announcing and releasing software for other people to build these Web applications, but Apple decided to lead by example instead.

No doubt the next release of Windows will include similar features, and of course they'll be more widely used than Apple's. But just think what might be happening right now if Microsoft had spent as much time creating Web applications for Windows XP as they did promoting them.

If a person could synchronize their PocketPC to their MSN account and Outlook at the same time, then reconcile with all their coworkers' calendars and documents, without having to do anything more than press a button, Microsoft wouldn't need subscriptions to sell the next version of Office or Windows. Instead they settled for getting halfway there so that they could sell more copies of Exchange Server and keep PocketPCs as expensive as humanly possible."

FatTony

Aug 16, 2002, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
sure you can get a shared web host for ~8.30 a month (same as .mac) but all you get is some web space very little bandwidth and access via ftp. and you certainly couldnt stream media on it. you wouldnt get backup software. you wouldnt get virus software. you would have to know how to create a webpage and use ftp to make a website for yourself.

PowWeb (http://www.powweb.com) gives you 250 MB Storage, 250 POP3 Email Accounts, 25 GB Transfer, SSL, PHP4, Web-Based E-mail all for $7.77/month

Any website can do http streaming. As far as I can tell, you can't do any different from mac.com.

Better iPhoto Templates (http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=14269&db=mac) and BetterHTMLExport (http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=13204&db=mac) can make websites for you from iPhoto.

Granted, you don't get antivirus, backup or webdav. Although, there are solutions for backup that you can find all over the web.

Actually, I agree with you. .Mac does bring it all together very nicely and it is much more convenient and certainly easier. I just wanted to point out that there are alternatives available to people who don't mind doing a little estra work.

AmbitiousLemon

Aug 16, 2002, 09:19 PM

like i said you can find web hosting for fairly cheap (although the one you found is by far the cheapest ive seen, and i have to wonder at the quality involved). but for $7 you found something that does only a tiny part of what .mac does.

but i see you arent really disagreeing. just pointing out that cheap web service is available elsewhere. but nothing like .mac really exists. and when compared to services such as you just mentioned it makes it even more amazing that apple is giving us all that and more for just $1 more a month.

FatTony

Aug 16, 2002, 09:22 PM

Wow! I got off easy. :)

dr koop

Sep 10, 2002, 04:03 PM

Is there any way to have a mac.com address forwarded after September? Or at _least_ have an auto-reply message sent with a forwarding address??

This would cost Apple essentially nothing, and might mollify those of use that really never used iTools for anything more than email.

macktheknife

Sep 10, 2002, 06:07 PM

Someone may have already brought this up, but I think Apple has already offered an e-mail only .Mac account. From .Mac FAQ:

"Q: How do I convert an existing iTools or .Mac trial account into an email-only .Mac account?

With a full .Mac membership, you can purchase up to ten email-only accounts (with 5MB of storage each). You can then assign this email-only account to an existing iTools or .Mac trial account, or create a brand new address.

To purchase additional email-only accounts, go to http://www.mac.com and click Account in the .Mac menu bar. On the Account page, click the Buy Now button next to the available upgrade options. Select the number of additional email-only accounts you'd like to purchase, then click the Upgrade Now button, verify your billing information, and click Buy Now.

To assign the email-only account to an existing iTools or .Mac trial account, click the Email Account Management button. Enter the member name and password of the iTools or .Mac trial account you want to convert, then click Convert. Please note that once a trial account has been converted, all the account's data files (except for email messages) will be removed from Apple's servers. Other .Mac services, such as iDisk, HomePage, Backup, and Virex, are not accessible to email-only accounts."

dr koop

Sep 10, 2002, 06:46 PM

That only applies to paying .Mac members with multiple accounts, unless I'm misunderstanding it.

I'm not going to join .Mac. I can't justify $100, or even $50/yr for a membership I'd only use for email. I'm resigned to losing the mail account, but I hate the thought of someone whom I forgot to give a new address to trying to get a hold of me in a month or two and just get a generic "account closed" reply, which is what I understand will happen.

It wouldn't take much to bounce back a "The new email address is...." note instead, or better yet automatically forward the message.

macktheknife

Sep 10, 2002, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by dr koop
That only applies to paying .Mac members with multiple accounts, unless I'm misunderstanding it.

That's what I'd thought too until I read the last paragraph:

"To assign the email-only account to an existing iTools or .Mac trial account, click the Email Account Management button. Enter the member name and password of the iTools or .Mac trial account you want to convert, then click Convert. Please note that once a trial account has been converted, all the account's data files (except for email messages) will be removed from Apple's servers. Other .Mac services, such as iDisk, HomePage, Backup, and Virex, are not accessible to email-only accounts."

I'm going to try to sign up for an e-mail only account as a test.

macktheknife

Sep 10, 2002, 07:30 PM

Yeah, my bad. Now that I'm re-reading it (for the 10th time!) I think it does apply to only those who already have a .Mac account. :(

iJon

Sep 10, 2002, 07:47 PM

They may be including the ton of free acounts they have given away, not sure. You are part of apple learn and earn (including myself) which you can only get if you are part of any authorized apple dealer you can get .mac free. all you have to do is complete the quiz about .mac and get it free for one year. consider that into the 45 percent but i am not really sure.

BongHits

Sep 10, 2002, 08:13 PM

Originally posted by iwantanewmac

Don't count on it.
I have ADSL and my oh my it's sloooooooooooww. Did any1 say slow? :)
.slow was/is a good name. Who thought of that?

adsl is a typical dsl connection is it not?? how can iit be THAT slow...while ill admit my dsl is slower than my parents cable, not by much and actually faster during peak hours (but im only on late at night/early morning or right after classes). please explain wtf adsl is...does it stand fo asymetric digital subscriber line?

BongHits

Sep 10, 2002, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by dr koop
Is there any way to have a mac.com address forwarded after September? Or at _least_ have an auto-reply message sent with a forwarding address??

This would cost Apple essentially nothing, and might mollify those of use that really never used iTools for anything more than email.
while it may be technically feasible, i bet t would be a pain in the ass to collect every individuals mail address, organize them, and be responsble for any mishaps.

Gaz

Sep 10, 2002, 08:35 PM

I know people have tried to clear up this confussion over .mac and .NET. I'd like to refer anyone who's confussed about this to an earlier post I made.

Post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9726#post131475)

Just to confirm that I should know what I'm on about I'm currently writing my own web service using .NET.

Unfortunately I think the confussion is caused by the term web service where "service" is suffering from homography and homophany (think the spellings right on that).

To make matters worse Microsoft has been naming lots of products blahblahblah.net even if the product has no barring to .NET. M$'s marketing dept has publicly admitted that they have caused lots of problems and confussion.

Anyway to the point, it is too early to say .mac is sucessful. We need to see over a period of time if it truely is hassle free and worth the money.

Anyway that's my 63 cents

Kid Red

Sep 10, 2002, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule

the fact is, .mac is not for professionals or probably even prosumer types, which many of the people here are..

if you were to get your own domain, it'd be cheaper. and you'd get more space. and more email addresses..

but would you be able to load your latest vacation photos onto a web page with a few clicks?

now, these prefab web pages aren't great, they're cheesy and easy. that's all. but guess what, the regular consumer generally can't create a web page. so maybe throw a bit more money out as an expense to hire a web designer... then the 99/49 bucks makes more sense.

personally, i consider myself a prosumer type and wouldn't pay for it as of now. but for those who can't make their own pages, etc. it makes sense.

also, i am certain the bandwidth issue is not there when you pay for .mac. anyone confirm this?

i think there should be a free/cheap email only option. but oh well..

This is the arguement I love to disprove. As a webmaster and web designer dealing in high volume and graphics you'd be hardpressed to find a better deal if you throw up a lot of pictures on your site and have a lot of people view them. Bandwidth is what hosting packages are based on. Sure you can get a site hosted for $5-$10 but you will not have but maybe 1-2gigs of bandwidth. Post one 150k photo on here claiming it to be the new G5 and you will find a bandwidth bill on your next invoice. Average prices per gig of bandwidth are around $8 a gig. So use 2-3 gigs a month and you're looking at close to $30 a month. Times that over 12 months and you'll see that what Apple offers is a pretty good deal.

For your mom or sister that just had a baby and puts her 60 pics on line after using iPhoto to grab and then use .mac emailing announcement out to 15+ family and friends you'll see why $100 a year just for the web site is a good deal. The other apps and features are just candy.

(fyi I do not need or use .mac, just defending those that believe it to be a good deal-like my wife who does have it)

carlmac

Sep 10, 2002, 11:49 PM

Okay, I've read the .mac debate long enough over the past month or so to throw my two cents in.

I purchased the .mac service and I have to say its great! I backup more regularly than I did before. I use the virex program seamlessly in the b.g. I used the idisk to transfer some important files from my old man to my new mac, and have filled most of the 100mb up and am seriously looking at adding more storage.
I'm already using the ical and I enjoyed getting (and using) the game Apple recently surprised me with and I look forward to additional "surprises" coming throughout the year.

I'm really don't understand why people who have spent $1000+ on whatever mac they purchased would want to deny themselves the "expanded Mac experience" that .mac offers for only $49.

As far as itools being free before, well yes it was, but it wasn't near as good as the .mac is now and the old free itools won't be even worth comparing to what I believe .mac will be over the coming year.

There's a lot of extra freebies that mac has given --including itunes, idvd, imovie, iphoto as part of the mac computer system that could have easily been left out and almost all of us would have still bought a mac without them. So lighten up on the .mac thing for $49 - it's worth the money. I'll bet everyone here has blown $50 on much worse things!

For what it's worth.

carlmac

Gelfin

Sep 11, 2002, 03:38 AM

I'm in a pretty good position to comment on this, since I both subscribe to .mac and have an active account with PowWeb. They're both useful. They serve different purposes. Independent web hosting (e.g. PowWeb) is about the ability to provide my own services. A value-add service like .mac is about the services they can provide to me. For instance they (now) provide me with a nice WebObjects app for browsing vCal-format calendar files, which keeps me from having to hack one up myself in PHP (though I still have that option if I want).

Actually, the more time goes by, the less ambivalent I am about my decision to go ahead and pay for .mac. I'm actually glad I did, and a lot of that is that I feel like Apple is working really hard to make it worth my money. Admittedly the Bejeweled/Alchemy deal was a big part of making me feel that way. It was a nice little perk out of the blue. And it's probably the knowledge that I paid for it, but I've used the .mac services more than I ever did iTools. It's still early in the program, and they can still easily get lazy and screw it up, but if they can keep up the sense of added value over the long haul they might yet wring that $99 out of me next year.

kiwi_the_iwik

Sep 11, 2002, 06:43 AM

I was just reading gelfin's and carlmac's posts - I'm glad you've got good experiences with .Mac - however, the services are currently only really useful to U.S. users.

Here in the U.K., we get NO telephone support, and disk access speeds are incredibly slow - even on ADSL lines. These problems are apparently to be rectified "sometime next year", according to an Apple spokesperson (MacUser Newsdesk, 06 Sep. 02). Meanwhile, to spend such an amount of money per year for just an email account - until they iron out the bugs for the rest of us - doesn't make sense at all...

...screw 'em.

dobbin

Sep 11, 2002, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by carlmac
I used the idisk to transfer some important files from my old man to my new mac

I was just wondering how you connected your old man to your idisk? :confused:

My Dad also knows loads of stuff that I'd like to archive on my Mac :D

Dobbin.

jelloshotsrule

Sep 11, 2002, 10:28 AM

Originally posted by Kid Red
This is the arguement I love to disprove. As a webmaster and web designer dealing in high volume and graphics you'd be hardpressed to find a better deal if you throw up a lot of pictures on your site and have a lot of people view them. Bandwidth is what hosting packages are based on. Sure you can get a site hosted for $5-$10 but you will not have but maybe 1-2gigs of bandwidth. Post one 150k photo on here claiming it to be the new G5 and you will find a bandwidth bill on your next invoice. Average prices per gig of bandwidth are around $8 a gig. So use 2-3 gigs a month and you're looking at close to $30 a month. Times that over 12 months and you'll see that what Apple offers is a pretty good deal.

For your mom or sister that just had a baby and puts her 60 pics on line after using iPhoto to grab and then use .mac emailing announcement out to 15+ family and friends you'll see why $100 a year just for the web site is a good deal. The other apps and features are just candy.

(fyi I do not need or use .mac, just defending those that believe it to be a good deal-like my wife who does have it)

i meant less to imply that no pros would find it useful and more to say that for those many pros who need more control over their site design and whatnot, this might not be for them, and they probably have a provider with a domain name and whatnot

so for instance, my company called "My Great Company", if i do a lot of internet stuff, is more likely to have a site called "mygreatcompany.com" than "homepage.mac.com/mygreatcompany"... you know? that's the kind of thing that as far as i know you can't do with .mac

but again, it's useful for people of all levels, just not ALL people in each of those levels. plenty of consumers don't even need the features or they want to do other things.

i think it's a good deal and a great service. so we really agree. :)

Kid Red

Sep 11, 2002, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule

i meant less to imply that no pros would find it useful and more to say that for those many pros who need more control over their site design and whatnot, this might not be for them, and they probably have a provider with a domain name and whatnot

so for instance, my company called "My Great Company", if i do a lot of internet stuff, is more likely to have a site called "mygreatcompany.com" than "homepage.mac.com/mygreatcompany"... you know? that's the kind of thing that as far as i know you can't do with .mac

but again, it's useful for people of all levels, just not ALL people in each of those levels. plenty of consumers don't even need the features or they want to do other things.

i think it's a good deal and a great service. so we really agree. :)

Ah, agree on the pros thing, exactly why I don't habve nor need a .mac account. My wife however isn't a pro and does have a .mac account. I think it's obvious Apple is going after the non pro section. Pro or not, I do think they should have packages tho. I'd take the .mac thing with lots of apps and syncing, but don't need the email or necessarily the web space.

carta

Sep 11, 2002, 01:44 PM

...and signed up. At least for this first year, $50 will be saved by cutting down on two business expenses.

First, by posting files on the Download page, I'll make less trips to FedEx, Airborne and UPS.

Second, with a 100 MB of storage, I'll be able to quickly upload backups of current project files to their offsite storage. That beats dumping things to Zip and heading driving over to the safe deposit box every time we get a tornado watch / warning.

I hope there aren't any bandwidth limitations. Some of my client files approach 100 MB and it would be handy to park them there for a client to download at their convenience.

coolfactor

Sep 11, 2002, 06:12 PM

I've happily paid for my .Mac subscription. I'm just waiting for my iBook to arrive, so I can start using Mac OS X and all the FREE software Apple has developed for us. Doesn't that make sense... we've been downloading free software from Apple for years and they've spent millions of dollars developing it. Apple is going to continue to develop downloadable software, and it exchange we subscribe to the network that ties it all together. Pretty good deal.

coolfactor

Sep 11, 2002, 06:15 PM

For all those still steamed about paying for a .Mac account, think about this... computers are getting more powerful with every release. Soon, sales of computers have to decline because they'll be so powerful to last a few years. That's starting to happen already. Apple knows this, even though they have millions of potential customers, they all have tremendous expenses incurred with all the Apple Stores and business buyouts. Keep going strong Apple, and never lose that vision!

machagheid

Sep 11, 2002, 07:51 PM

.mac=iRip+Uoff
100%=45%-99%
45%=BS
Wake up Apple, split this lame package!

coolfactor

Sep 11, 2002, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by machagheid
.mac=iRip+Uoff
100%=45%-99%
45%=BS
Wake up Apple, split this lame package!

Hi mr. mathetic,

I don't quite understand this logic of yours and I probably shouldn't even bother replying. I guess I just wanted to remind you that .mac is a baby. Let's give it time to evolve into what we all want. With Apple's legendary history of innovation and trend-setting, .mac is going to be exactly what we all want it to be. And you're not going to be there to enjoy it. When you step back and look at our existence as a whole, are these issues really that important? I'm going to enjoy the blessings of being part of a [Mac] community that truly loves and makes full use of its resources. Thank you.

machagheid

Sep 12, 2002, 05:10 AM

Is .mac new?Silly of me....& here I am thinking that it's just another scam. Thank you though for reminding me that I must leave this Korporate brethern asap.

I am .mac not
I will be left out
I am not worthy
I benefit not will
I am going all wobbly
Jobs, here is all my money
Please innovate for me
I am lost without your wonderous products
I will be engineered by your vision
Where is my Gatorade oh master?

Time for Ridley to do another 1984? No, maybe just a new ending.

.mad

coolfactor

Sep 12, 2002, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by machagheid
Is .mac new?Silly of me....& here I am thinking that it's just another scam. Thank you though for reminding me that I must leave this Korporate brethern asap.

I didn't mean to offend you, sir. :( It's just that I expect more maturity from Mac users. That's just my ignorance, I guess.

machagheid

Sep 12, 2002, 03:43 PM

No offence taken.
Diversity of opinion is to be encouraged.......as long as it's 'free'!
I've bought into Apple over several years now.
Overpriced hardware/ever-poorer performance/et al
No the thing that has kept me here is the bundled s/ware.
OSX/itunes/imovie etc are excellent. As far as I'm concerned I've happily BOUGHT these as part of the package.
Until now--- .Mac - the harbinger of future Apple releases
To continue your 'baby' analogy I am LESS than happy @ having to 'adopt' i.e. PAY for the development of products which I don't want or need.
After all these years, I am given the option - join......or be left out! Pay up or shut up. I personally don't know anyone (Long term Mac users) over here who is buying into this crap.
What lamebrain posited this promotion?
What's next, Readers Digest marketing strategy?
Read the posts, I am NOT alone!
Protest will evoke a reconsideration of this ill conceived development.

QuiteSure

Sep 12, 2002, 04:13 PM

Let's not forget that iTools for free was born in an age when nobody had developed a profitable internet strategy. The idea at first was, let's build these sites to provide free content and/or services for profit to derive from advertising or purchasing of other goods/services. Apple jumped on the bandwagon in the late 90's hoping that free iTools would sell more computers. Obviously, it didn't sell enough to keep it free. But alot of .coms folded too because there was no (and still is no) profitable internet model if you are not a pornographer. It's taking a great deal of courage for Apple to admit (in its roundabout way) that it failed to find a profitable internet strategy in providing free services. It is now enlisting a different for pay internet strategy, but there's no guaranty that this strategy will be profitable either.

Notwithstanding the demise of the dot-com mania of the last few years, we are still in an internet exuberance. The amount of for-free content available on the web is staggering. I believe that there will be attrition in the years to come, because the simple truth is that you cannot devote resources without a meaningful return.

Besides the point, I have subscribed to .mac, not because I think I need it, but because I like to keep abreast on all things Apple and I don't think I can meaningfully do that without subscribing. But of course, each consumer must make their own choice.

BTW, how many posts before I can shed that humiliating "newbie" moniker?

machagheid

Sep 12, 2002, 04:45 PM

QuiteSure
I fully follow your potted history of internet activity, however, if iTools for free failed to ignite the computer buying public how will '.mug' stimilate a surge of NON-MAC users?
Or have Apple simply settled for market share & decided to stick the 'loyal' user with this 'exciting' package?
Is Option to become a redundant concept?

QuiteSure

Sep 12, 2002, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by machagheid
if iTools for free failed to ignite the computer buying public how will '.mug' stimilate a surge of NON-MAC users?

Apple will have to convince non-mac users of the value; I can't say that I'm qualified to defend .mac for that purpose.

Although Apple may be tring to entice non-mac users with .mac, my premise was that Apple's initial goal is to find a profitable model for the internet. Having failed to do that with free iTools, Apple is making another go of it with .mac. Time will tell if Apple will be forced into yet a third strategy.

machagheid

Sep 12, 2002, 05:39 PM

"Apple will be forced into yet a third strategy"
Agreed
I suggest the soon to be seen third way is... FORGET IT!
Amazingly they are having to 'force' adoption ('03) of the excellent OSX!! What chance is there of selling this .macdud.
P.S. OSX 10.2 is $150 here in the UK & sales are slow. Advertising here is sporadic , & appears to be pitched to poncing middle class types who probably already own a Mac!!! My granny could do better.
I've sold friends on the idea of buying Macs despite the relatively high initial outlay ........after they have seen mine........"you get all this too?" ..."iTunes.....this is great" etc.etc. The S/Ware sells the H/ware.
This will soon become ....em......"Oh & for another $100 .....you can....."

We the Mac users SELL the idea of macs. If they must insist in sales gimmicks, Let Jobbo introduce a tacky 'Discounts for friends deal' It worked wonders for Broadband. Move the units!

Who says the future profits lie in S/ware?
There are millions of PC users out there who are potential 'switchers' (Another pudding campaign....Who would want to associate with that bunch of losers??) but this add-on$ development is hardly likely to help engender change.

Let Apple get a innovative marketing team & forget the Kleeneze takeover.

No Way Jobsay

machagheid

Sep 13, 2002, 01:33 PM

Sam
$49.........$99..........& that I fear will not be the ceiling........
IF......
Regards

nuckinfutz

Sep 13, 2002, 01:49 PM

If I as an Apple Shareholder I would have demanded the death of iTools.

The former poster was correct. The heady days of .com gave people the false impression that profits be damned. We all here work job to generate money which propels our forward movement.

Apple is no different.

Here's a scenario.

You don't have many friends. You want more so you let 5 live rent free in your apt. Later ...you realize the financial drain they are causing. You value their friendship and wish you could add more the the bottomline says you're better off with 1 paying roomate rather than have 5 non paying friends.

.mac is not for everyone. Apple doesn't have to go broke trying to ensure that YOU don't go broke. They offer a product at a price they deem fair. If you take it...you take it. If not then thanks for your time.

This incessant bitchin' over .mac is asinine. People sound like Apple is on the corner begging for people to buy Macs. They want to attract new users but usually free things are worth what you paid for them.