OS 9 Classic Only

[arn]

MacWorld UK (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/top_news_item.cfm?NewsID=5109) reports that neither Jaguar nor new Macs will include an OS 9.2 CD:

According to staff at the UK Apple Store Apple will not include a Mac OS 9.2 install CD with Mac OS X 10.2. Of more significance, neither will an OS 9.2 disc be included with new Macs. Instead, Classic will reside on a Restore CD.

There are scattered reports of people receiving their new machines, but no confirmation on OS 9 Install CDs exclusion.

Persistent rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/08/20020802113210.shtml) have indicated that future machines will be unable to boot OS 9.

[awrootbeer]

Ah about time!

[Martin Dove]

Crazy. I love OS X and manage to avoid using classic most of the time, BUT, still have to boot into 9.2 for scanning (there are no drivers for my umax scanner, and no scanners are on the market that have bundled OCR software). I think that there are other critical software packages that are not yet on OS X (quark Xpress for example).

[KramRM]

Apple's Tech Specs page lists OS 10.2 and 9.2 as the included operating system. I didn't see if it says that both are preloaded, or if it is just included on a disc. It appeared to me like they are both loaded.

http://www.apple.com/powermac/specs.html

I don't care if OS 9 is included on my system. I never really cared for Macs, but OSX sold me and my TiBook has just about become a desktop replacement.

[arn]

Originally posted by KramRM
Apple's Tech Specs page lists OS 10.2 and 9.2 as the included operating system. I didn't see if it says that both are preloaded, or if it is just included on a disc. It appeared to me like they are both loaded.

http://www.apple.com/powermac/specs.html

I don't care if OS 9 is included on my system. I never really cared for Macs, but OSX sold me and my TiBook has just about become a desktop replacement.

Still could be just the Classic environment, however... an no boot/install CD of OS 9.2 alone. The MacWorld UK articles does indicate that OS 9.2 is included in the Classic Environment.

arn

[Arcady]

If there is no OS 9 boot CD, just make one. Toast will let you do this.

Or buy Norton Utilities (when it is updated to boot on a new G4). Boot that into OS 9.

Or go to the Apple Store and buy a boxed copy of OS 9.

Or use your old disk.

Besides, if you are a new Mac user, you don't need OS 9, because all the stuff you buy will be new and work in OS X anyway. If you really want to run a 3 year old OS, you can find a way to do it.

P.S. Is there a codename for the new G4's? Yikes!, Sawtooth, QuickSilver, and XXXXXX?

[vniow]

I don't know, but the new Powermacs are called Mirrored Drive Doors. :p

Maybe they're called Damn! It's Hot in Here!:D

[Sun Baked]

Apple Discussion http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX?14@115.ciryaapDeku.15@.3bb92d6a/0

Yes, you can startup to Mac OS 9.2.2 with the new Power Mac G4 (Mirrored Drive Doors). While there is no Mac OS 9 startup CD-ROM disc, Mac OS 9 can be restored from the restore CD-ROM discs.

Todd
Apple Discussions

But hopefully it shouldn't take a new owner long to report back whether they can boot to OS 9 and confirm a lowly Apple Discussion moderator's answer.

[sinbushar]

Originally posted by edvniow
I don't know, but the new Powermacs are called Mirrored Drive Doors. :p

Maybe they're called Damn! It's Hot in Here!:D

man it would be cool as hell if for the commercial they had the announcer guy...say "Damn! It's Hot in Here!" then all of a sudden you start hearing "Its getting hot in here! So take off all your clothes!" and the case opens to show the dual 1.25 ghz 2GB DDR SDRAM 120GB hardrive:D...and then the 'crowd' goes silent..and is in awe/silent revere.....classic...maybe its just too late and my mind is just a little too fast for myself...

peace out

adel

[vniow]

Oh God, the radio has corrupted you forever, It's bad for your health, you know. :D :D

[chetwilliams]

I just bought a Dual 1Ghz DDR Power Mac and it did NOT include an OS 9 install CD. If you do a reinstall, you have to install OS X. Then, you can reinstall OS 9 from the software restore CDs. You can still boot OS 9 though if you install it this way. The only limitation is that you can't install OS 9 straight up, you have to install OS X.

[sparkleytone]

umm you may have bought one, but being that you wont get it til next month, how do you know?

[modul8tr]

ummm....because the DUAL 1GHZ ships in 1-3 days. The Dual 1.25 ships mid September.:)

[modul8tr]

Also, my dealer (Unitek) when I bought my DDR GHz Tuesday, told me the machine would boot up in 9.2. I was very firm with him that if it didn't boot up in 9 the machine would be back on his desk instantly. So I believe it's true.

I use Pro Tools/Logic Audio and we're still stuck in 9 as coding Pro Tools for X is a massive re-write but now finally rumored to appear soon...

[jelloshotsrule]

what about the fact that these versions of os 9, since the newest powerbooks i believe, are not full versions...

at least that is what i heard.

i didn't care, until i ran into a problem

i had done a clean install on my computer and used my bro's powerbook software cd... ie, 9.2.2 to install.

then a week or so later i went to install fcp in 9 (to run some os 9 only plugs) and it couldn't find a system file...

well, i reinstalled from my powermac os 9 cds and installed fcp without a problem..

anyone else know what i'mm talking about?

as of now, there are still plenty of reasons to boot into 9 for me. it's rare, but it happens. and usually not with something that is really reliable in classic. that said, it's getting to the point where it's good if apple says to the software folks "hey, make it os x or suck it up" and then they finally get their act together. why did it take quark so long to be ported? i don't use it, but knowing that a huge % of the design industry does and most of them use macs.... well doesn't it make sense to get it over there to os x asap?

anyhoo.. just my thoughts.

[drastik]

Quark is taking ofrever because Avid is pissed about FCP, at least, that's the going theory on some of the Editing spots. Personally, I love quark, but I haven't done design with it in a while (six months or so) and I was using 9 a lot more at that time.

I loke Classic, but I don't need it except for my MAcromedia Design Studio. Frustratingly, it shipped with only freehand in X, and the upgrade path is six hundred bucks, so that'll be awhile. I'll probably wait untill I start with a graduate program next month, then I get teh whole Studio full version for half the cost of the upgrade.:D

Right now, though, I need Dreamweaver 4 and Flash 5, once I get MX, bye bye 9.

[primalman]

Why would Quark take so long if Avid was upset about FCP?? Makes no sense.

Originally posted by drastik
Quark is taking ofrever because Avid is pissed about FCP, at least, that's the going theory on some of the Editing spots.:confused:

[MacArtist]

Originally posted by primalman
QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! QUARK! :mad:
Quark’s OS X support is very slow

January 2002 releases Quark Xpress 5, still only OS 9

•July 18, 2001 - Quark Inc. today announced that QuarkXPress, the industry-leading page layout software, will be built natively for Mac OS X. Quark executives previewed the carbonized version of QuarkXPress, dubbed version 5.x, as part of Apple's keynote address today at Macworld Expo in the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center in New York.

December 1999 releases Quark Xpress 4.1, still only OS 9

•September 1, 1998 - In a continued effort to develop software for all the most popular operating systems, Quark Inc. today announced that it will include support for Apple's upcoming operating system, Mac OS X (ten), in its next release of QuarkXPress.

•November 10, 1997 - Quark Inc. last week began releasing the much anticipated QuarkXPress 4.0 for Macintosh OS and Windows-based systems to distribution channels worldwide.


With this speed of upgrades, we can expect an OS X native version sometime in 2004.

[MacArtist]

Try to boot anything lower than 9.2 on a 2002 Quicksilver. I bet you can't.

OS 9 is dead. Software and hardware developers need to grasp this concept. By not allowing newer systems to boot OS 9, they may get the hint.

And if you absolutely need to run OS 9 keep your old system. It's as simple as that.

[tjwett]

that sucks. there are alot of apps that do ont support Classic at all.

[bousozoku]

Originally posted by tjwett
that sucks. there are alot of apps that do ont support Classic at all.

I have a few that don't support 9.x or 8.x or...well, you get the picture.

Rome wasn't built waiting for its chickens to hatch.

Figure that one out. :D

[yadmonkey]

I think Mac techies, those who are likely to be found posting here, are not in touch with the majority of Mac users. Same with music techies, who rarely actually make music with their technology. Most people in the music industry don't give a rat's ass about new technology as much as they care about being able to make music with their technology (new or old). Whatever you think of Pro Tools, it is still the standard in the industry and it still relies on OS 9. Many of us who use Pro Tools are in need of a new Powermac.

Yes, Digidesign needs to get it together and make an X-compatible Pro Tools version. Meanwhile, how many musicians can afford the time to learn new software and the money to buy new sound hardware in addition to a new Powermac? We live to make music, not to get involved in the politics of an OS switch. We have long been an industry that has avidly supported the Mac platform. Guess what - the industry is getting more and more disenchanted with Apple products.

Apple's tendency is to make their new hardware incompatible with older versions of system software. That's why you can boot a Quicksilver G4 and install the OS from an older OS 9 CD. How will we (those who still need OS 9) custom install OS 9? Is selectively dragging from a software restore CD reasonable for most users?

[Spidermanjohn]

http://www.barefeats.com/pmddr.html

Slower??? SLOWER?!? SLOWEEEERRR!!!

Apple, what have you done?:mad:

[ShaolinMiddleFinger]

Originally posted by sinbushar


man it would be cool as hell if for the commercial they had the announcer guy...say "Damn! It's Hot in Here!" then all of a sudden you start hearing "Its getting hot in here! So take off all your clothes!" and the case opens to show the dual 1.25 ghz 2GB DDR SDRAM 120GB hardrive:D...and then the 'crowd' goes silent..and is in awe/silent revere.....classic...maybe its just too late and my mind is just a little too fast for myself...

peace out

adel

yup...it's official....that song has now reached the "irritating" level

Back to the REAL subject....I would still prefer that I can boot into 9. I'm still waiting for drivers from canon so I can use my <1yr old scanner on it...

[sparkleytone]

Originally posted by modul8tr
ummm....because the DUAL 1GHZ ships in 1-3 days. The Dual 1.25 ships mid September.:)

errr whoops ;)

[tjwett]

Originally posted by yadmonkey
I think Mac techies, those who are likely to be found posting here, are not in touch with the majority of Mac users. Same with music techies, who rarely actually make music with their technology. Most people in the music industry don't give a rat's ass about new technology as much as they care about being able to make music with their technology (new or old). Whatever you think of Pro Tools, it is still the standard in the industry and it still relies on OS 9. Many of us who use Pro Tools are in need of a new Powermac.

Yes, Digidesign needs to get it together and make an X-compatible Pro Tools version. Meanwhile, how many musicians can afford the time to learn new software and the money to buy new sound hardware in addition to a new Powermac? We live to make music, not to get involved in the politics of an OS switch. We have long been an industry that has avidly supported the Mac platform. Guess what - the industry is getting more and more disenchanted with Apple products.

Apple's tendency is to make their new hardware incompatible with older versions of system software. That's why you can boot a Quicksilver G4 and install the OS from an older OS 9 CD. How will we (those who still need OS 9) custom install OS 9? Is selectively dragging from a software restore CD reasonable for most users?

word up dude. NONE of my VSTis, Logic, Digital Performer, nothing, supports Classic mode. not that i really care i guess since i won't be buying a new tower but i'm some will and be bummed when they don't have a 9 installer. most studios i work with are in 9 and have no real plans of switching to X anytime soon. they don't seem to care.

[yadmonkey]

SOMEBODY understands me!!! I'll be getting a new tower and I can handle the custom installs, but I am a heck of a lot more knowleagable than yer average user. I say that not to toot my own horn, but to emphasize that Apple and all these techies who are anxious to bury OS 9 are losing touch with the actual folks who don't have time to find work-arounds, because they should be using their energies for their creative endeavors.

[modul8tr]

NO recording studios or audio post production studios are using OSX. And it won't happen until Digidesign delivers.....rumored to happen this Fall. Logic Audio should be any day now, they've been working on it a LONG time AND Apple owns them now.

The only real problem is this....that even if they do deliver we're still stuck because we have to wait for all of the 3rd Party developers to make their plug-ins compatible with OSX. Many users are still waiting for certain Pro Tools|HD plugs, so god knows what horror is in store for us:eek:

And everyone is hoping Digidesign won't require or exclude certain hardware Pro Tools D24, Mix, Mix Plus, D24 based Mix Plus etc from compatibility as this will put a HUGE kink in the migration for many. They've said they won't but that can change. We all remember the jump from PCI to Pro Tools 24..... Plus their still selling Mix Hardware so this should NOT happen.

I LOVE digidesign products and know they will NOT put out an OSX Pro Tools 6 version until it is ready. And I do mean READY.

[yadmonkey]

So where does this leave the music industry? Are we not to buy new hardware until Digidesign finishes their OS X software versions and the third parties make their plug-ins compatible? Are we limited to buying Quicksilvers until then? Has Apple forgotten one of the only major industries that has always stuck by Apple??

MacArtist wrote:

"And if you absolutely need to run OS 9 keep your old system. It's as simple as that."

Guess what: it ain't as simple as that. If your old hardware is dying, what's your best bet? For those who live and work in a beurocracy and have only this window to get a new Mac, it sure ain't as simple as that. In my world, you get a window in which to make a purchase and when it closes, you might not get another for a looooooong time! A Quicksilver is not that attractive when you have good reasons to want a computer that can support 4 internal HDs and will have to last until the powers that be authorize another.

[primalman]

Originally posted by yadmonkey

A Quicksilver is not that attractive when you have good reasons to want a computer that can support 4 internal HDs and will have to last until the powers that be authorize another.

Quicksilvers/Digital Audio/Graphites/B&WG3 all support 4 or 5 HDs internally, you just have to get an ATA card. No big whoop, ACARD's ATA/133 controllers are only like $100 [RAID controllers are more], and I would think that you would want an off-board controller, esp for /133 drives, I know high-qual audio and video takes up masive rooms, 120GB+ would be nice to have.

Check this out, see if it could fit for you:
- G4/533/640mb ram
- Stock 40gb HD mounted on top pf CD casing on old plastic sled, much velcro holding it on (like Proline kit), using original IDE bus for the original position, just got a longer ribbon.
- Four 80gb drives mounted in the bottom trays.
- ACARD ATA/133 RAID card
- the four drives are hardware stripped into two 150gb [formatted] volumes
- OS X 10.1 Sever disk utility mirrors those drives into one 150gb redundent set.
- Set to share to the workgroup [OS9] via Appletalk-TCP/IP
-Its fast

And you don't need OSX Server for this either, OSX normal does the RAID thing the same way, easy as pie.The alternative is to not use the RAID function and just have two very speedy disk sets hardware stipped from the ACARD. It works fantasic like.

BTW - OSXS screams on this 533 digital audio, just think what 10.2 anyting will do on a DP 1GHZ quicksilver!!

My 2¢. :)

[ebound]

I only use 9 for one thing -- scanning into Photoshop.

Now, if I get a digital camera, this is solved. But I'm busy spending money on other things.

Hopefully, Jaguar will support my ghetto USB UMAX scanner. If not, I can't ever get rid of 9. Unless someone buys me a digital camera or a better scanner.

[Bob Dobbs]

I work at a small TV station in a big market. 99% of the machines here are windows. In fact I can only think of 6 macs on the property (2 in my dept), 2 in the 'on air graphics / print' dept.,
1 for FCP editing bumpers and promos, and 1 in the web design area (just so they can make sure the sites look good on a mac).

I am the computer geek around here and installed OSX on one of the FCP machines, but all three of the editors who use the machine AND the lowly teck/intern who logs timecode COULD NOT HANDLE IT. They need the machine to just work, they dont care about nifty new look. The on air graphics machine is a G3 (as is one of mine) and lookign at a spinning beachball instead of getting work done is a pain.

Face it OS 9 works, and it lets people get work done without having to learn new stuff, or buy new software (it takes almost 2 months to get a PO approved for a big time purchase - like a new machine or all new software).

Anyway - sorry long rant... OS 9 lives, peopel who USE computers but dont know anything about 'em or dont care will use OS 9 for a long time. Even I still do (scanning, quark [we have 10 years of old files in quark so even if I move to Adobe, I still need to open and change the old ones now and again], netscape 4.7 (still the best).

I love bleeding edge, but its not a reality to 99% of the rest of 'us'

[ImAlwaysRight]

Originally posted by arn
Persistent rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/08/20020802113210.shtml) have indicated that future machines will be unable to boot OS 9. Let's hope these rumors get hardware and software manufacturers to get off their lazy asses and write OS X native software. Pete's sake. Stupid Canon Canonscan N1220U scanner doesn't even have an OS X driver. The awesome videoconferencing app iVisit isn't even written for OS X. Check their forums and people've been begging for an OS X version for two years. Geez, in that amount of time I could have gone to school and learned how to write programs and converted the doggone program myself. If I'd only known, I would have!

Enough ranting, and I love iVisit to death, but I've been hearing for 3 months "an OS X version is coming soon" after not hearing squat for 2 years. I haven't used this program lately, even after getting cable internet 2months ago, because I can't stand booting in OS 9 any more.

Enough of my rant...

[gopher]

If you create a CD using the restore CDs Mac OS 9 system.

So don't worry, you can still boot directly into 9, no Classic needed.

[modul8tr]

Just unpacked my Dual Ghz G4 and YES it does boot up in 9.2.2 by going to system pref>>>startup disk>>>system 9.2.2.

DAMN Jaguar is FAST!!!

Booted up my Pro Tools TDM system and it is playing back a 20 track session with heavy edits,fades,automation w/digital video lock flawlessly.

Very responsive!!!

For some reason it lists the ram in system profiler (under OS9.2) as PC133!!??

Loud Fans.

Interesting.

[AssassinOfGates]

Well i may not be a power user but more a gamer. I just ordered a new 867 dual with BTO superdrive and it better be able to boot OS 9.2, and have the CD. AvP is **** for OS X. I was at the apple store today for some speakers, and i must say that jaguar is FAST. Also seemed to fix that skipping optical mouse problem.

[modul8tr]

The Dual 1 GHz DOES boot up OS 9.2.2. By going to system prefs>> startup disk>>OS 9.2.2>>restart..

Bingo Bango OS9.2.2!!!!

Great stuff.

Jaguar kicks ass!!!!! Can't believe it!!!!!!:D

Again the new DDR G4's DO boot OS 9.2.2 Does not require classic to do so.