MBA's - worth it?

[idkew]

I am a college senior graduating this May with a BFA with a focus in Graphic Design and a minor in advertising. My question is:

Is an MBA worth the $50,000 and 2 years of my time? Also- do you think it is possible to go straight to an MBA program for Marketing (Northwestern, U of Chicago or DePaul) right after undergrad?

Thanks for the input.:)

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by idkew
I am a college senior graduating this May with a BFA with a focus in Graphic Design and a minor in advertising. My question is:

Is an MBA worth the $50,000 and 2 years of my time? Also- do you think it is possible to go straight to an MBA program for Marketing (Northwestern, U of Chicago or DePaul) right after undergrad?

Thanks for the input.:)

yes you could go straight to mba school after undergrad but you will get a lot more out of it with five to ten years of real world experiece first

[jefhatfield]

also note that people getting most phd's (for teaching and research positions), master's, MD, and JD need the schooling first, then they go into work field

MBA school trains people for senior management positions and that won't be something you will likely expect at age 23 or 24, but in your 30s or 40s

most top MBA programs have an average age between 26 to 31, which may seem older, but by the time you get there, you will be ready to distinguish the useable mba stuff from the jargon slinging fluff you can forget once you get your degree

i got my BA when i was 30 so i entered graduate business school right after that since i already had ample real world experience...but like many in northern california in grad b-school at the time, i jumped out of school and into the dot.com thing as a vp of sales and marketing, and like most dot.coms, we flopped (but that was it's own mba training program in its own right)

if you do go to mba school right after undergraduate school, don't worry, it won't kill your resume

just don't expect real mba level work for a long, long time...seniority still drives the work ethic in most corporations and it is still kind of like an old boys network with the emphasis on "old" but not 100 percent a "boy" thing anymore...2 percent of fortune 500 ceo's are women...should be more and it will one day

and go for the best mba school you can get into...while a public school will give you the same education as a private school, the private school will give you the concepts and the connections...and the business world is more who you know vs. what you know more than any field as opposed to being a scientist where knowing your stuff is more important than networking skills (but that is important there and everywhere, too)

university of chicago is one of the top tier schools, as well as harvard, university of pennsylvania, and stanford

good luck in your advanced studies:)

[macktheknife]

If you plan to go to a competitive, top-tier business school, your chances of being accepted right out of college are virtually nil. Unless you have ample work experience (I'm assuming you will graduate in your early 20s like I did), you will almost be certainly rejected. The average age of most top-tier MBA program is 27, meaning most acceptees have 5-6 years of working experience.

In case you are curious, here is an article recently put out by Business 2.0 on getting an MBA:

http://www.business2.com/articles/mag/0,1640,41346,FF.html

The article makes some good points about how an MBA is not a sure-shot ticket to unlimited wealth, but I would argue that it's anti-academic slant makes the story highly inaccurate in many ways.

Also, I think Jethatfield has some good points about which schools you should consider. While I would definitely stay away from second or third tier b-schools, I would argue that the difference in the quality of education between public and private schools is less than it would seem. Yes, Harvard or Wharton are great names, but you'll be paying +$50k when you could go to a reputable public business school like UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Darden (Virginia) for less than half the price.

Also, are there any reasons *why* you would want to go straight to b-school? If you plan on doing marketing for a career, you'll learn much more from hands-on experience than in the classroom.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by macktheknife
I would argue that the difference in the quality of education between public and private schools is less than it would seem. Yes, Harvard or Wharton are great names, but you'll be paying +$50k when you could go to a reputable public business school like UC Berkeley, UCLA, and Darden (Virginia) for less than half the price.



in many cases, ucla, california's top rated public mba school, is actually rated higher than usc...but a big part of the business executive is connections, and the extra 25k that a top tier private school costs, will pay for itself many times over

i have heard about signing bonuses that make up for that...but in the mba thing, name is everything and the private top tiers have it

but private and public alike share good quality educations

this will most likely be the second biggest investment you make in your life next to a house or condo...don't skimp on this one

as a former hr person, the private elite schools get the most amazing preferential treatment and even though this isn't fair, the people in power who went thru the private school thing, they are very into keeping the power within their own circles

there are exceptions, but even in this day, they are really rare

when a public school educated lyndon b johnson was president, he quipped in a roomful of ivy league graduates, "i bet i am the only one from texas teacher's college" realizing he was a true rarity in the circles of power

make your choice wisely and a good mba is like a good investment

...let's say you wanted to get the best deal for a laptop as a graphic designer on the go...you can get a gateway for $1399 with combo drive and 15" inch screen but for $2599, you can get the same relative specs with a tibook...while the gateway will save you money, the tibook will be the much better value

[Rajj]

It depends on the market and your luck!!!!!!;)

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by macktheknife


In case you are curious, here is an article recently put out by Business 2.0 on getting an MBA:

http://www.business2.com/articles/mag/0,1640,41346,FF.html

The article makes some good points about how an MBA is not a sure-shot ticket to unlimited wealth, but I would argue that it's anti-academic slant makes the story highly inaccurate in many ways.



the long, four page article is very well written and only at the end it criticises the education and not the contacts and networking

the business school education is pretty much based on the harvard case study method with a few warmed up classes in management, economics, accounting, statistics, and finance

so if you are going to spend a lot of money on an mba, go to a school which has the richest and most connected students, and that won't be a public university, but a top tier private university

...most hr people, like i was, only really have about ten schools in mind and there really are only so many true mba level jobs out there (it is a limited piece of the pie)

my short list of ten:

harvard (the case study leader), university of pennsylvania (wharton), dartmouth, columbia, cornell, mit (if you want to be a biz analyst), university of chicago (anti harvard case study stance), stanford (northern california elite), usc (southern california elite), and insead (europe)

sure darden (virginia), cal (haas), ucla, davis, irvine, suny, texas, and many others give equal educations, but the connections and networking are not the old school, refined tradition of the ivies and top tier b-schools...the very nature of public schools makes them more interested in political correctness and answering to the whims of public, government, and non-profit motives...therefore, ceos send their kids to the private elite schools so they can forge their ties to ensure the best chance for success for their businesses (and fortunes) they often hand down to their offspring

sure, i graduated from a private college, but i also graduated from a public college...and i see good sides to both types of educations...but for graduate business school, the elite, top ten private schools win hands down

[mischief]

It's Certification of Pointy-Haired Thinking. It seems that most people I've met with MBA's have had their brains removed and replaced by a deseased facsimile modelled on a Weasel Brain.

Note: MBA's are what make Enron happen. Gocyrus was an MBA.

Mainly
Bad at
Arythmatic;)

[macktheknife]

Originally posted by mischief
It's Certification of Pointy-Haired Thinking. It seems that most people I've met with MBA's have had their brains removed and replaced by a deseased facsimile modelled on a Weasel Brain.

Note: MBA's are what make Enron happen. Gocyrus was an MBA.

Mainly
Bad at
Arythmatic;)

This statement just plays on stereotypes and rampant anti-intellectualism and does nothing to further the debate. Yes, maybe MBAs made Enron happen (if indeed they did), but so what? MBAs also made the world run more efficiently and productively that enhances general societal wealth. We can also say that programmers made the dot.com bubble happen, but does that negate the accomplishment of technology companies in the past decade?

[mischief]

Originally posted by macktheknife


This statement just plays on stereotypes and rampant anti-intellectualism and does nothing to further the debate. Yes, maybe MBAs made Enron happen (if indeed they did), but so what? MBAs also made the world run more efficiently and productively that enhances general societal wealth. We can also say that programmers made the dot.com bubble happen, but does that negate the accomplishment of technology companies in the past decade?

Wow. Now THAT's what I call a defensive, arrogant statement. MBA's are a specialization in management styles that are designed for the corporate structure that we are now leaving behind. With communications being what they are many layers of middle-management can be perminantly eliminated.

Let me just break into the two main statements:

"MBAs also made the world run more efficiently and productively that enhances general societal wealth."

Perhaps the same way industrialized farming methods increased yields: By producing larger outputs of weaker plants, less nutritious produce, poisoning and leaching the soil. I'd like you to explain exactly what you mean by "General Societal Wealth". Your whole statement sounds like a flyer from a business school.


"We can also say that programmers made the dot.com bubble happen, but does that negate the accomplishment of technology companies in the past decade?"

Well. I can tell you right now that investment bankers and stock underwriters caused the .com bubble, Geeks owning their own weak-companies would have been eliminated by market forces had they not been kept alive by the Capital Investment equivalent of DDT. To answer your question: No, because technical achievement was NOT what most of the fluff .com companies where selling. That was the problem, they were selling vapourware.

[topicolo]

Doesn't international experience matter quite a bit too?

[jefhatfield]

mba types get blamed since they are the leaders...when a whole company and its workers fail, the ceo, often an mba, takes the blame whether its his fault/her fault or not

many times, i suspect, mbas just gum things up for the worse...no doubt about that

my favorite example is of cbs fender musical instruments and instead of launching into a huge juliana hatfield essay, i say look it up on google:D

[idkew]

the whole reason i want an MBA is that i have a feeling that a BFA means nothing these days. everyone has a B(F)A. it is analogous to 100 years ago when few people had a high school education and if you did, you were that much better off. now a days everyone is going to college, and i feel i need a way to differentiate myself.

i realize that i will have to start at the bottom, or near it, but i want to get up there ASAP, and my idea is that an MBA will accelerate my promotions frequency and earnings potential; with hard work, of course.

would you say i see things correctly? especially those of you who have an mba or a lot of business experience.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by idkew
the whole reason i want an MBA is that i have a feeling that a BFA means nothing these days. everyone has a B(F)A. it is analogous to 100 years ago when few people had a high school education and if you did, you were that much better off. now a days everyone is going to college, and i feel i need a way to differentiate myself.

i realize that i will have to start at the bottom, or near it, but i want to get up there ASAP, and my idea is that an MBA will accelerate my promotions frequency and earnings potential; with hard work, of course.

would you say i see things correctly? especially those of you who have an mba or a lot of business experience.

when my cousin got his BA in the early 70s, fewer than ten percent had that designation...today, that number is close to twenty five percent with the master's degree percentage nearing eight percent

so having a master's is like having a bachelor's was four decades ago...it is a way to differentiate oneself

i say if you want a master's now, go for a degree that would suit your age more...why spend big money and be in a class of experienced, elder mba students? if you are going to put the big money in, make sure you have the experience to use the info you get in mba school...otherwise, you may just have a piece of paper on the wall that cost you 50k

anyone will tell you to get the experience first, even if it's just five years...it will make a world of difference and make your 50k and investment in you instead of money tossed out a window

you can also think of it this way...you are the quarterback and you just took the snap, don't take the ball and just toss it, find your receiver first, make sure he is in position, and then toss the ball to him...timing is crucial

going for an mba now would be like receiving the snap and throwing the ball immediatlely into the wind without finiding a receiver

having that reciever getting into position first is like your working and paying your dues in the real world...it is about waiting the right amount of time

and a good college chosen is like the right receiver since a good school like harvard will be like jerry rice who can take your ten yard pass and run it another ten...run after the catch phenomenon that that 49ers and cowboys employed so successfully

i am assuming you are something under 25 or so, but if you are older and experienced in the work world, go for the mba now, but remember to shoot for possible connections as much as a good curriculum