iPhone - Apple Phone

[arn]

The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/19/technology/19APPL.html) (free registration required) discusses Apple's future plans for an Apple-branded Phone (aka iPhone):

But analysts and people close to the company say that the plan is under way and that the evidence is manifest in the features and elements of the new version of the Macintosh operating system.

In a recent interview, Steve Jobs was downplayed the possibility of an Apple PDA (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/07/20020720142136.shtml) - but did discuss the future of next generation cellular phones.

NYT also points to Apple's interest in other handheld technology, with an attempt to purchase Palm for $1 billion soon after Steve Jobs returned to Apple.

iPhone.org (http://www.iphone.org) has been registered by Apple for years along with many others domains (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/07/20020726044941.shtml).

[vniow]

I could see that. It'd go along nicely with iSync, Rendevous, and Bluetooth, provided it's on a future 3G wireless network.

[slaboda]

That's probably why iCal isn't available now. An inexperienced programmer could write an app like that in about 2 weeks. We're waiting for the iPhone that goes with the iCal.

[kishba]

Originally posted by slaboda
That's probably why iCal isn't available now. An inexperienced programmer could write an app like that in about 2 weeks. We're waiting for the iPhone that goes with the iCal.

um ical?

i hope you mean isync... i personally think that if an inexperienced programmer (read: me) could make a program like ical they (read: me) would have done so already

i'm personally more excited about ical than isync, if not jaguar ;)

[scem0]

They have all the technologies to make either a phone or a PDA - and that would be tight if one came out at MW paris. I could see it working with iCal, Randesvous, iSync, and maybe even iTunes (a small HD for '500 songs in your pocket'). It could be a phone, organizer, calender, mp3 player, and half a million other things. It would be a wonderful device, too bad apple will probably make it inaffordable to a 15 year old... :(

[Macette]

i hope apple aren't diversifying too much, at the expense of their loyal powermac following... it would be a bit disappointing to see their high-end computer stuff stagnate while they concentrate on other gear. i mean, they're a pretty small company for such a broad product base.

[CountZero]

scem01, there is already such device. Check out the SonyEricsson P800. It is coming to the US in December, apparently...

[jadam]

OR OR OR OR OR bluetooth phone that uses a bluetooth headset that can work with both a bluetooth/adapted ipod and iphone :P

[zim]

i don't see how this would work. as of right now cellular phone makers are forced to make specific phones for specific providers... or is it just a programming configuration? could this just have something to do with sony ericsson? they did give a talk at the last mac world about how their phones and how they would work with the new technology. also, steve was using a phone on stage and i doubt that they would promote something that would conflict with what they have planned.

[ConradG4]

I'd buy one.... but i'm still waiting for ipods that will plug into eachother through firewire so you can play pong with a friend and transfer files.

-Conrad:D

[flanders]

it would work; they'd just create a gsm version of the phone first. A tri-band GSM phone would be able to be used almost everywhere in the world--even North America (GSM1900/900) and would just require the usual SIM to be inserted into the phone from any of the providers. I don't think you'd see any CDMA/TDMA phones especially early on.

[tjwett]

i'd buy one. i've been waiting to get a cell phone for a long time because of all the scetchy plans and billing issues. as long as it doesn't come with outragous Apple-esque pricing.

[elgruga]

This sounds right. I would buy one.
Sell my P280 on eBay and get an iPhone.

But its got to sync and work with PC's and its got to be universally appealing, NOT just to Mac users.

[G4scott]

This sounds nice, but I'm not sure about whether or not it will actually happen. Apple seemed to be buddy-buddy with Sony-Ericsson, and I don't think that Apple would enter a market where they already have friends. The iPod came because basically all of the mp3 players out there sucked, and Apple saw a chance to innovate. I just don't see much room for innovation in the cell phone market. Apple would take a big loss if they tried to enter the market. Of course, I may be wrong (as much as I would like to be ;) )

[theaz]

I believe that Sony Ericsson must play into this somewhere. On their main web page (US) there is a link to apple related connectivity information. Also check out

http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?page=gis&Redir=template%3DSE_apple%26B%3Die

One section says...

“There is great synergy between Sony Ericsson and Apple in terms of how we see new services developing for the consumer and in our commitment to make applications easy to use," said Katsumi Ihara, president of Sony Ericsson Mobile Communications. "Apple’s approach to working with mobile technology will scale well into the next generation phones that take on imaging, music and entertainment functions, and we see many more ways that our products can complement each other in the future."

Apple is laying foundation stones in close collaboration with Sony Ericsson. Maybe they are working together on hardware issues. It may also be as simple as an information transfer between the companies, where Apple can build on ideas from SE, and vice versa. Both companies build on one anothers experties thus reducing R&D. Meanwhile, no one really needs to step on anyones toes: the market is already very broad. In the mean time, their collaboration would produce a generation of devices that are heads and shoulders above their competitors.

[funkywhat2]

maybe apple is buddying up with sony/erriccson because they are helping to build the phones - they supply the hardware, apple does the software and packaging. that way, both sides win. for example, i think that toshiba (correct me if i'm wrong) makes the hds for the iPod, but they also make mp3 players themselves, but if apple uses them as a supplier, but they do the software, design part, both sides are happy b/c both sides get $. just my $.02
:D

[JakeWalker]

Lots of face time for both Sony/Erricson and Cingular Wireless at MacWorld NY this year. An all-in-one device would be a "killer app" for sure, so don't be surprised to see the product designed by Apple, made by Sony/Erricson, and supported by Cingular. Another theory would have Apple doing a virtual-rebranding of Cingular's network, just as Virgin Mobile has done in the UK with One2One and in the US with Sprint PCS. (Virgin Mobile negotiates bulk rates with a carrier who already has a network in place, then markets phones on the 'Virgin Network', which is run by Sprint, but features lots of Virgin-only extras...)

[G4scott]

How about this... Apple and Sony-Ericsson collaborate on the design of the phone, one of them actually makes the phones, and Apple makes an OS for the phone.

You could send a picture or movie, or just a message through iChat to a phone number, and it the phone is compatible with the service, then it works. That would be awesome... I don't know if there's anything like it already, but it would make people truly connected...

[AudiA4]

You know, when you step back and take a look at the big picture, ALL of the evidence points toward a portable PDA/communication device. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Here is a compilation of the smoke:

Inkwell (the most obvious)
iCal
iSync
iChat
Addressbook (totally revamped)
Mail (totally revamped)
Rendevous
Sherlock (totally revised - sort of a "mini-browser")

Of course this stuff COULD work with hundreds of other devices, but Steve Jobs wants to sell you HIS device!

It's coming.

[DavidFDM]

Some of the technologies listed above would work wonderfully with a TabletPC. I love the concept of a tablet. I have 4 computers a G4 867 Quicksilver, a Ruby iMac, a white iBook and a Palm III. Each one has their benefits but none really works well for a lounging artist. Take the Wacom Cintiq (sp. ?). (In case you don't know, it is a flat panel monitor which you can write upon.) It would be perfect to work with if it wasn't shackled to the computer. Also, a tablet lends itself for doing inventory work, surveys or a variety of other tasks where a laptop is too awkward to hold.

Just my 2¢.

[nero007]

Originally posted by ConradG4
I'd buy one.... but i'm still waiting for ipods that will plug into eachother through firewire so you can play pong with a friend and transfer files.

-Conrad:D

The recording industry would not let this happen. Don't down count on Apple putting out anything like this soon.

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by AudiA4

Of course this stuff COULD work with hundreds of other devices, but Steve Jobs wants to sell you HIS device!

It's coming.

As long as the carrier agreement is in place. Almost no one gets a phone then goes to their cell carrier asking for access, usually, they are told by their carrier which phones they support. There is more than techonological reasons behind this- there is a lot of marketing cooperation and exclusivity deals- deals that may make ONE particular brand of phone perhaps not available in your area at all.

This doesn't even get into the different flavors of 3rd Gen coverage, which furthers breaks down what can be used where. This is an extremely competitive market.

An Apple phone would have to be-
-branded, manufactured and sold by a major player in cellular
-carried, supported and marketed by at least one major carrier
- a totally useable phone/PDA outside higher bandwidth footprints, perhaps even reverting to analog coverage.
- Great form factor and long battery life

Would it have to be able to sync to Windows, as the iPod, in order to succeed in the market?

I wanted a Palm VII. Never went for it, due to coverage, and of course, it wasn't a phone.
I have been wanting a Palm OS phone since they were first announced. First announced was by Qualcomm. Never saw it beyond pictures.
I see the Handspring Treos, and the Samsung Palm OS phones, but I don't like the carriers, and neither phone has blue tooth.

We can assume the Apple Phone will probably have a camera (This appeals to people who don't give a damn about Apple, or PDA abilities in cell phones, most people just want a phone that is small), and will probably have Blue Tooth. (Ear based receivers will be the big sell for BlueTooth, more so than syncing to a computer. Or similar communicating with CAR audio via Bluetooth) But that its a very tough marketplace out there bears repeating.

And it is still very likely you will not see anything beyond what SonyEriccson is offering.

But I'll get an Apple phone. If its priced reasonably and available via my chosen carrier.

[Phaedrus]

Originally posted by AudiA4
You know, when you step back and take a look at the big picture, ALL of the evidence points toward a portable PDA/communication device. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Here is a compilation of the smoke:

Inkwell (the most obvious)
iCal
iSync
iChat
Addressbook (totally revamped)
Mail (totally revamped)
Rendevous
Sherlock (totally revised - sort of a "mini-browser")

Of course this stuff COULD work with hundreds of other devices, but Steve Jobs wants to sell you HIS device!

It's coming.

To me, this post is right on. I would guess we'll see the fire around MWSF.

[dongmin]

Interesting to see the New York Times getting into Apple rumors or "Silicon Valley's favorite guessing game" as he called it.

There was a surprising amount of meat in the article:

"Among the evidence, they say, is recent behind-the-scenes wrangling between Palm and Apple over linking Palm's own devices to Apple's new operating system — apparently with little cooperation on Apple's part."

If I remember correctly, in Jobs' MWNY presentation, there was a diagram of all the devices that syncs with your Mac, and one of them was a Palm. So it's not completely out of the picture.

"Analysts also cite Apple's deal with Pixo, the tiny company that designed the software for Apple's popular iPod MP3 music player; that deal includes a license for Apple to use Pixo's software with a second product."

I don't think anyone's really pointed this out yet. It's very interesting. This prooves that Apple is definitely planning a second iPod-like device. Hopefully, it's coming out soon.

[sparkleytone]

one of the primary logistical problems of an apple branded phone would be its pc compatibility.

this is not a market where a company can play around in connectivity and potential productivity. if/when apple hits the market with an "iPhone" there will need to be both Mac and PC software that work as flawlessly as first generation software can. In this market, they cannot afford to be coy or attempt to lure people into buying a Mac.

It was a clever and successful game to play with the iPod, but would be devastating in the highly contested phone market.

[sergeantmudd]

Why hasn't Apple given Motorola the boot? Because Motorola is going to built the new iPhone for them. All Apple has to do is keep using router chips in "high-end graphic workstations." If Apple does make the iPhone, it is going to be a huge success (as long it isn't bondi blue or something ridiculous like that) And all Apple will have to do is put alittle spit and polish on a Motorola phone running a Pixo operating system.

[DaveGee]

I have one small question... What cellular provider you people think Apple is gonna make this phone compatible with?

As most of you know here in the US as well as in Europe and Japan Apple WILL have to choose!

Verizon? Cingular?? AT&T??? Sprint???? Europe????? Japan??????

Oh you want this Apple Phone to work with ALL of those providers Europe AND Japan included?!?!? Sorry but cell phones just don't work that way... otherwise ALL cell phones would work with ALL systems and anyone who has been shopping for a specific phone (for their system) knows it just don't work that way....

So let's hear it... what system is Apple gonna choose and how many of us are gonna be pissed because Apple **didn't** choose ours.

Heck I love the idea but Apple can't make something that's gonna work with everything.

Dave

[Gus]

iSync comes out in "late September", Macword Expo Paris is in late September (which Steve is keynoting). Hmmm... Maybe the introduction of iPhone with the debut of iSync to show it off?

Just a thought.

Gus

[wdw_]

At the end of that NY Times it mentions a guy named David Carey. There's a guy named David Carey in the switch ads. Coincidence? I think not.:p

[bretm]

Originally posted by AudiA4

Sherlock (totally revised - sort of a "mini-browser")

Well.... totally purshased. It's watson. I'm not sure they really changed anything that watson probably wasn't already working on.

[yamadataro]

Originally posted by DaveGee
I have one small question... What cellular provider you people think Apple is gonna make this phone compatible with?

As most of you know here in the US as well as in Europe and Japan Apple WILL have to choose!

Verizon? Cingular?? AT&T??? Sprint???? Europe????? Japan??????


That's a very good point.

When I heard some rumors about new PDA with phone capability by Apple a while back, I was skeptical about it because cell phone system widely varies over the world. As a Japanese local myself, I know that Japan is TOTALLY closed. Japan basically is the only country in which you can not use GSM network. I don't know what's wrong with us, but the networking system we use here is incompatible with anything else on this planet. And the fact is that there's no overseas phone manufacturers currently selling phones in Japan. All of them are Japanese companies like Sony (recentry started a joint venture with Ericsson), Panasonic, NEC, Sharp, Sanyo and Mitsubishi. DoCoMo, the biggest of cell phone carriers which is a subsidiary of a formerly government owned NTT and famous for iMode system, does not allow these phone companies to put their logos on the phones. DoCoMo brands them as their own products, although it's clearly know that the big pleyers makes them. So Apple probably won't choose juicy DoCoMo which does not allow them to put the Apple logo.

There was a rumor that Palm would introduce their wireless PDAs with a help from DoCoMo, the cell phone network giant, but failed to do so mainly because Japan has the most advanced wireless web/mail access system from cell phones like iMode (provide by DoCoMo), EZ-web (AU) and J-SKY (J-Phone). I think I've heard that HandSpring has attempted to sell that Springboard based phone to Japan but failed to do so as well for the same reason.

For me choosing the conventional GSM network makes sense because it's compatible with any countries except for Japan. But as far as I understand, Japan is one of the big markets for Apple. So it's kind of difficult to imagine Apple excluding Japan for iPhone.

But hey, we are thinking too much within a small box. I'm kind of imagining and hoping that Apple might do something totally revolutional. Like going for Voice-over-IP and/or WiFi. Who said it will be the traditional phone?! This makes much more sense to me now. Traditional cell phone network is too limiting and slow. And G3 networking is not there yet.

You guys think VoIP and/or WiFi would be a possiblity?

[MacViolinist]

Does it strike anyone else as odd that Apple doesn't go to Motorola, with whom they are already a partner, but instead goes to Sony/Ericsson? Could this point to a break-up with MOTO?


-the Gruesome Drewsome

[dongmin]

Two interesting issues people've brought up:

1. PC compatibility
I don't see Apple porting all the connectivity apps (iSync, iCal, mail, address) to windows. All those apps are integrated with OS X. It'd be too much work, and those features are major selling points for Jaguar-- they're not gonna just give it away.

Also, I don't see why Apple can't make money off of a Mac-only phone. A phone that combines all the useful features of a PDA, syncs seemlessly with OS X, and has some cool Apple-only features mixed in would sell really well. I think there is sufficient demand within Apple's userbase to make this profitable. To me, there is a greater demand for a Apple PDA-phone than a portable music player.

2. Carrier
Is this really a big issue? As someone brought up, all these PDAs have phones built in or have phone attachments. To me, it's just a matter of Apple signing on with a carrier--my bet is with Cingular in the US. I'm sure most of these carriers would love to be associated with Apple.

I have no idea what kind of engineering is required to adapt a phone to a carrier but if small companies like Handspring can set up their PDAs to work with a carrier, I say no prob for Apple. It seems to be a business issues more than anything.

------

The more I think about it, the more I'm excited by the idea. Phone carriers/manufactures are adding more and more multimedia features to their phones as the networks improve. Apple seems to be the perfect company to ride this wave, considering their adoption of mpeg 4, Quicktime Broadcast, iPhoto, iTunes, etc. The possibilities are mind-boggling.

[freedom]

Scandinavia is currently waiting for 3G,
but that won´t come for some years.
Not in full power anyway. That is because
the networks are to expensive to build.
Therefore the phone-manufacturers
hold back on releasing "real" 3G-phones.
In the networks you will have to choose
an operator/carrier, but with roaming
access that will open up for new players.
Maybe media-houses/record companies/
the movie industry…???
Do-Co-Mo is if I understand it correctly
a 2,5G or GPRS-system. When the 3G
infrastructure is up we need services to
fill the network AND to pay for the building
of it. I´d say we won´t see an Apple
branded mobile device until 4G is a reality.
That is if 4G will be as fast as real broadband
is for computers today. I mean, what´s the
use of streaming a movie to a cellphone screen?
Oops, I think I´m entering "Gibsonesque"
domains here… Just think Johnny Mnemonic!

PS. What would you use this device for?
Business and/or recreation?

[yamadataro]

It's not the carrier issue, but about which system Apple would choose. Different networking speeds will make iPhone into totally different product!

If they go for the systems widely used as of now, they end up with a very slow connection which does NOT have a bright future. Slow connection totally limits what you can do with iPhone. I'm kind of betting that Apple wil make software-driven hardware, meaning like iPod can update themselves when new technology is out there. So we don't have to buy new iPhone when the technology is out of date. Hardware atrachment is an interesting solution like somebody suggested, but it's not a super-clever one from the financial and convinience point of view.

I'm not worried about any of the PDA/phone functions. They'll probably do a fabulous design job. But I'm super worried about this carrier/system issue, because I live in Japan where the weirdest cell phone system is actively used.

You forks in the states have nothing to worry about, I guess. I envy you guys to death!!! Apple will make something totally US friendry phone for sure.

Handspring's phones were easily adapted around the world because it runs on GSM. So they didn't have to make any special hardware for each country. And their only issue was which "prefered" carrier they choose.

If Apple goes for an easy choice like GSM, Japan will be excluded and multimedia function will be very limited. When this happens I'll cry all day in Japan!!!! If Apple choose other systems, they have to make custom wave-transmitting hardware for every single system on the planet because there's no uniform system other than GSM. This doesn't make sense to me. Making many variations of the same product is a nigihtmare from the business point of view. And Apple has never made country-specific hardware, has it?

And DoCoMo's new generation system called "FoMa" is pure 3G, not 2.5G as I understand. They heavily promote it specifically as "3G", so I think it actually is 3G. Well, maybe I'm wrong. New generation one still is not widely used because of area coverage and price. I'm not sure what the current DoCoMo system is based on. But it's at least couple of years old, and difficult to imagine it as 2.5G.

[badika]

could overcome carrier limitations?
or, is that way off the mark?

Would anyone with any cell phone technology under their belt(or above their neck) care to reply? Could Rendezvous provide internet telephony on a CDMA 1x or W-CDMA band?

[gropius]

Check Here(Sorry the web site is in Chinese, but have 3 Illustrations) (http://www.elesson.com.cn/modules/news/article.php?storyid=68)

Just Fun;)

[MidnightRambler]

Last month (after MacWorldNY) I read a post where someone said:
"lately Apple's got such a gay, Starbucks, cell phone, pillow biter vibe", ...and it really cracked me up.''


Apple should forget about marketing cell phones and find a new supplier for CPUs. Leave the cell phones to Motorola. It's one thing there's good at making.



the Midnight Rambler -

Not swapping any of my v.60s for no prissy, white, pillow biter Apple phone.

[MidnightRambler]

If Apple goes for an easy choice like GSM, Japan will be excluded and multimedia function will be very limited. When this happens I'll cry all day in Japan!!!! If Apple choose other systems, they have to make custom wave-transmitting hardware for every single system on the planet because there's no uniform system other than GSM. This doesn't make sense to me. Making many variations of the same product is a nigihtmare from the business point of view. And Apple has never made country-specific hardware, has it?



Did you bother to watch the MacWorldNY keynote?

Jobs brought out the CEO of Cingular (switching from a TDMA netword to a GSM network, like AT&T) out on stage to schmooze the audience.

Sony Ericsson was also on hand to harken the new alliance between Apple/Cingular/Sony Ericsson.


Expect to see an Apple branded Sony Ericsson GSM phone (probably white, but we can all hope for Titanium), with some sort of incentive for choosing Cingular over AT&T or VoiceStream (T-Wireless).

[yamadataro]

Originally posted by MidnightRambler

Did you bother to watch the MacWorldNY keynote?

Jobs brought out the CEO of Cingular (switching from a TDMA netword to a GSM network, like AT&T) out on stage to schmooze the audience.

Sony Ericsson was also on hand to harken the new alliance between Apple/Cingular/Sony Ericsson.


Uh, I didn't know about this alliance matter. Thanks for letting me know. So Apple has shown their strong interest in phone business back in MWNY then?

Now I'm even more worried about iPhone not being sold in Japan! I wonder what's Apple's strategy on this? Simply no iPhone in Japan??? I guess I just have to hope for GSM edition for the world and a special version that runs in Japan?

Sorry that all I'm concerned about is Japan.
But I'm talking about my quality of life issue here for the next couple of years;)

[backspinner]

People who can afford the monthly spendings of a 3G phone are also able (and willing) to buy an Apple notebook "just for fun".

And I can remember that some months ago there was a news item of a phone/pda gadget supported by an old and rich Apple person.

[oldMac]

You can certainly see Sony's influence on the Sony Ericsson relationship. They must have 40 phones in their lineup!

I'm sure they have great manufacturing and all, but sheez... If I were an investor, I'd be very worried that they were stretching things too thin. IMHO, that's Sony's biggest problem right now. So many models with so little differentiation just has to shred your profit margin.

[oldMac]

Hi Gropius,

Nice pics.
You should call that the "Atari Paddle keyboard" :)

[Blackcat]

Originally posted by DaveGee
I have one small question... What cellular provider you people think Apple is gonna make this phone compatible with?

As most of you know here in the US as well as in Europe and Japan Apple WILL have to choose!

Verizon? Cingular?? AT&T??? Sprint???? Europe????? Japan??????


It's just the SIM card which makes a phone work on a cell network, the phones are not built for one provider (although some like Orange do have custom 'bodies' printed).

Apple could simply build the phone and sell it SIM free, the customer then buys a SIM or puts the one out of their old phone in it.

It's pretty simple really.

[yamadataro]

Originally posted by Blackcat


It's just the SIM card which makes a phone work on a cell network, the phones are not built for one provider (although some like Orange do have custom 'bodies' printed).

Apple could simply build the phone and sell it SIM free, the customer then buys a SIM or puts the one out of their old phone in it.

It's pretty simple really.

As many US guys here know, in the states many cell providers "lock" GSM phones to their network to prevent people from buying phones with promotional deals and then switching over to another GSM carrier. So it's not as simple as you suggested. This might sound very unusual in any other coutries with GSM network, but that's how it is as I understand.

This is still the way it is in the states, right guys?

And obviously, non-GSM phones in the states and all phones in Japan does not have SIM cards. These phones are specifically made for each service provider.

[peterjhill]

Originally posted by DaveGee
I have one small question... What cellular provider you people think Apple is gonna make this phone compatible with?

As most of you know here in the US as well as in Europe and Japan Apple WILL have to choose!


Umm, maybe they will have more than one device? You go to a page, pick your country, your state, then your cell phone provider, you are then taken to a page with the phone that works with your provider. On the box when you get it are instructions on how to convert service over to your current provider.

[topicolo]

Originally posted by kishba


um ical?

i hope you mean isync... i personally think that if an inexperienced programmer (read: me) could make a program like ical they (read: me) would have done so already



And it has. The program is called... iCal (but for windoze)
http://www.brownbearsw.com/ical/icalpage.html

[GutBomb]

From The New York Times Article
Of the 12 new OS X features the company has been emphasizing on its Web site, most would be desirable for a hand-held phone, including chat capabilities, mail, an address book, calendar features, automatic networking and a synchronization feature that will become available in September.

Um, as far as I know, most computers come with address books, chat capabilities, calendar features, automatic networking and synchrinization features. Does that mean MS is coming out with a portable phone just because outlook has all these features? This guy is TOTALLY grasping at straws here. iPhone my ass.

[topicolo]

Heh. The funny thing about this is that Apple could use this new phone to screw Motorola for once. By leaving Moto AND taking away their phone marketshare, they'll really put the hurt on those lazy, mismanaged asses.

[GutBomb]

Originally posted by bretm


Well.... totally purshased. It's watson. I'm not sure they really changed anything that watson probably wasn't already working on.

Not true. Watson was not purchased. He took cues from Sherlock while developing Watson. Apple had always planned on extending Sherlock to include web services, which is what they did. Watson does the same thing, however Apple niether purchased, nor ripped off, the developer of Watson

http://www.karelia.com/watson/watsonFAQ.html

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by sergeantmudd
Why hasn't Apple given Motorola the boot? Because Motorola is going to built the new iPhone for them. All Apple has to do is keep using router chips in "high-end graphic workstations." If Apple does make the iPhone, it is going to be a huge success (as long it isn't bondi blue or something ridiculous like that) And all Apple will have to do is put alittle spit and polish on a Motorola phone running a Pixo operating system.

I don't know if motorola is exactly the playa you are looking for-- they HAVE had some success with cell phones, don't let that blind you to their myriad FAILURES in the marketplace.

Of course it would be something Motorola would be HAPPY to do (for themselves rather than someone else) if they could do it, more than this annoying "computer chip business" thorn in their side they seem totally unhappy about dealing with.

This is not merely a matter of having a 'good product'- the market push for such a product has to be coordinated among several cooperating partners.

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by bretm


Well.... totally purshased. It's watson. I'm not sure they really changed anything that watson probably wasn't already working on.

Not pursh... not purchased. Some of the parts may have been hanging around Apple ready to be used. Dan Wood put them together, Apple discovered they needed to do the exact same overhaul once the third party showed them a great product and a market for it, and once people complained about the finder not being able to find anymore, once in OS X.

Sherlock was only interesting for web search during its early days, and if it was on a high bandwidth connection. The sites being hit were interested in speed of info more than pushing ads, so you could get an incredible amount of info in a terribly short amount of time, given the bandwidth, and open cooperation of all content providers. Then they stopped cooperating, because they were in the business of showing banners to eyeballs, not giving away their data. And Sherlock searches became junk.

Watson just takes advantage of cooperation, and puts a more useful face on the XML that is out there- showing that an XML browser can be more functional than HTML.

Now he is thinking he is going to have to be a Windows client to survive. Which might be good for all concerned-- because an iPhone will probably have to sync with windows to get distribution and support in the marketplace, and it might save Apple the trouble of creating a friendly syncing framework for some possible iPhone features. They could still be doing business- but they sort of pulled the rug out from under him after letting him show the thing off at WDDC or Expo or such. Any animosity could serve as good cover for any real cooperation behind the scenes.

[Midlantica]

See the SonyEricsson P800 Flash pressy, its short and I can see why Apple may like it:
http://www.sonyericsson.com/P800/connect_story.htm

My PDA collects dust cuz there's no live net connection... Bluetooth Rendezvouz Pixo's lightweight interface.... I'd love it. Finally a use for a phone.

[theaz]

what do you think of this report abut the iPhone:

http://www.irumors.net/

Interesting. Hopefully not manufactured.

[makkystyle]

There will be a phone that will have strong apple connections, although it may not be an "Apple" phone. SOny Ericsson and Apple already have established strong ties. If you look, Sony Ericsson phones are the only ones currently compatible with iSync see: http://www.infosync.no/news/2002/n/2080.html and http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2002/jul/17isync.html As far as a service provider goes, apple does not have to choose one, because any phone they build will be built around the GSM standard which, depending on band, will work all over the world. It would be advantageous mostly within the US because cell phone service providers like to provide different phones than the competition and sign sole distribution deals with manufacturers. Hence, cingular is smart to get in early. Additionally, cingular is one of the three providers with GSM in the states along with Voicestream and AT&T. The phone being GSM could easily be used on these networks also but you would have a heftier price tag because you could not buy the phone along with a service agreement, see the online sony ericsson store and their T68m and T68i prices. The OS would most likely not be apple either. In an atttempt to finally get different manufacturer phones to be compatible Nokia, Ericsson and Seimens developed the "Symbian" OS, which is used in the new SonyEricsson P800 and the Nokia 9110 communicator (and related models). This seperate OS allows the phone the possibility to be compatible with both Mac and Windows OS's ( as well as Palm pocketPC). Also Microsoft already has it's SmartPhones being shipped in Europe check out Sendo's S100 (i think this is the model name). This would certainly not be Mac OS compatible so something using symbian would be much more universally consumer friendly. As someone mentioned earlier, bluetooths biggest advantage is the use of wireless accessories like headsets and the coming SonyEricsson "chatpen" (someone mentioned something similar in another post but thought it was only concept, it is coming out... soon) a pen that writes on paper normally but can also transmit this to a palm or phone or computer via bluetooth. The possibility to get consumers to buy corresponding access. opens whole new revenue streams for companies and will be pushed vigourously. So my predictions:

A SonyEricsson/Apple branded iPhone
GSM networked
Symbian OS (with apple sync capabilities, (and Windows))
Sold exclusively through Cingular and the Apple store
Built in digital cam (apple has no hand in this cookie jar yet)
MP3 iPod like functionality (hard drive although with SE memory stick duo not out of the question)

Also remember that the New York Times is not a "rumors" site like this. They generally don't place articles based on the wishes of apple geeks like us, there is certainly a bit of marketing going on there, testing the waters so to speak.

phew!

[makkystyle]

on that report they say 200x300 greyscale screen. I don't think this is corrrect for two reasons:

1. Every manufacturer is going color and this will be one of the main deciding factors for people to upgrade their existing phones

2. plus it is relatively cheap now and would need to be there to make a camera function possible

200x300 may be correct though as it is large enough to have space to write. inkwell!!!

[makkystyle]

http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?page=gis&Redir=template%3DSE_apple%26B%3Die

notice the line at the bottom...

[arn]

Originally posted by theaz
what do you think of this report abut the iPhone:

http://www.irumors.net/

Interesting. Hopefully not manufactured.

After their "motorola" report... I don't put much credence into their reports.

arn

[spore]

So, either Apple will now bar Press Passes from The New Your Times, or will continue to beg for a law suit from other "rumor monger" sites and publications they have barred in the past.

Oh well, I'm sure our not-so-thin (even in black), balding Uncle Steve will show us once again that he is the typical bully, happy to push around anyone who appears small and defenceless, but will not dare to press his "ideals" against anyone with an ounce of muscle. It's as sure as the presence of another Beatles tune in the next MacWorld Gala event (can you say fat, balding, middle-aged white man? how about typical, self-absorbed baby boomer?)

Fatboy Steve should learn that many people are driven to Apple's products out of a sense of disgust at the strong-arm tactics used by Billy-Bob, down on the ranch in Redmond. So, what's really so different here? At least Billy-Bob has stood by his pal and #2 man (Blubber-Butt Balmer). What happened to Stevie's pals? (They all quietly have let us know that they do not wish to share air with Uncle Stevie - kinda makes you think, huh).

I can imagine the day when we are all glad there is a MS to defend us against the monomaniacle ravings of Uncle Steve and his Steve-approved vision "for the rest of us".

Frankly, Steve has more than started to ruin the whole Mac Experience for me. I'm beginning to feel guilty for using Apple Products, and just exactly for the same reasons that I used to feel guilty for using MS ones. Hmmmmm

[theaz]

Originally posted by arn


After their "motorola" report... I don't put much credence into their reports.

arn

Exactly what I was thinking. Additionally, they have that suspicious disclaimer at the bottom of their story...

[mnkeybsness]

i don't know if anyone pointed this out yet, but the rumor partly comes about because of the still valid contract between apple and Pixo (the ipod's software creator) for another device. this would mean that apple would be the designers, pixo the software, and sony/ericsson the manufacturers, but yet it would be sold as solely and apple product and would only be able to be used with macs....doesn't that seem kind of odd considering sony makes winblowz machines?

[makkystyle]

sony ericsson is a seperate company based in the UK. sony's windows connection is of no consequence. Remember also, sony uses Palm OS for their handhelds, not PocketPC.

[makkystyle]

as for motorola, they make possibly the most un-userfriendly phones in the business. Are put together with cheap parts and just overall blow. SonyEricsson has taken the manufacturing quality of ericsson (far superior to nokia and the rest, i've had them all) and the design and forward thinking of sony. By far the best manufacturer of any on the market today, i highly recommend them. I don't think it would be solely apple branded because SE would want the public to know that this is partly their product, plus it gives apple credibility, of which it has none in the cell phone market. Apple would HAVE to brand it with the SE name to gain any kind of marketshare.

[mcrain]

Originally posted by scem0
too bad apple will probably make it inaffordable to a 15 year old... :(

Who cares about 15 year olds? Bunch of whiney skateboarder brats shouldn't be the focus of a multinational corporation. :D

[mcrain]

Originally posted by yamadataro
Now I'm even more worried about iPhone not being sold in Japan! I wonder what's Apple's strategy on this? Simply no iPhone in Japan??? I guess I just have to hope for GSM edition for the world and a special version that runs in Japan?

Sorry that all I'm concerned about is Japan.
But I'm talking about my quality of life issue here for the next couple of years;)

If you were really, I mean REALLY concerned about Japan, you wouldn't whine that Apple is excluding Japan and bemoaning how the only people who sell products in Japan are Japanese, but would rather take a closer look at your trade laws.

Why do you think most products sold in Japan are Japanese? Do you think it is because all Japanese products are better than everyone else's products?

Maybe, if Japan didn't levy large tariffs, and have trade protection rules/procedures, companies from all over the globe would sell there, and your "quality of life" might improve.

Just a thought.

[topicolo]

plus most of them don't have any money :)

[CountZero]

Symbian OS is NOT the reason for Mac & Windows compatibility. It is SyncML standard that most new 'smart' phones implemented. That is why despite no offical support of Mac for T68i, it still works with iSync as iSync uses SyncML. Same with Palm device compatibility.

On the phone/device side of thing, I can see Apple re-brand the SonyEricsson P800. Though how Apple deals with the MemoryStick storage issue is another matter.

[CountZero]

Well I think the US as well as Japan are paying for their mistake in the early 90s when they (the carriers) decided not to adopt the GSM standard and went the CDMA route.

Some (if not all) of the US carriers are finding the migration route from CDMA to CDMA2000 to W-CDMA is more expensive then they first thought. This is even when compares to building a brand new GSM network for 2.5G THEN migrate from GPRS to W-CDMA via EDGE.

So I don't think Apple will cripple themselves by making a CDMA compatible phone first. More like a GSM first then CDMA with help from a CDMA carrier like Sprint, in the model of Handspring Treo.

[Vic]

I've read so much mis-informtion in this discussion that it's scarry!

1) There is only one national (US) GSM carrier. It's T-Mobile (formerly VoiceStream).

2) Cingular has GSM in only CA, a very small area in NY, and a small area in the Carolinas. They are not a national carrier in GSM.

3) It will take Cing. years and years to roll out GSM thru out their network. And there will be much cost and pain. It's not easy to do. Don't expect much if you're a Cing. customer.

4) ATT has even less GSM coverage and re-read point #3 inserting "ATT" in place of "Cing."!

5) Cingular "locks" their GSM phones (not very customer frendly!) No one else does.

6) Just before anyone brings it up - Sprint IS NOT 3G!!!! Great marketing company, but the're not 3G.

The logical connection for Apple is T-Mobile (owned by 2nd largest wireless co. in world, DT, Germany)

7) Yes, tri-band GSM (1900-US, 800-Europe and Asia, and 1800-Asia) is the only way to go. It'll work world wide (Sprint can't even dream about doing that!)


ATTENTION APPLE - goto Bellevue, Wasington (yes, that Bellevue) and talk with T-Mobile ASAP.....

[ajkandy]

Everyone gets hung up on the hardware aspect of the iPhone concept. What if it's software?

1 - With QT6, Apple now has a really efficient algorithm for encoding video and audio. iChat could be extended to videoconferencing, for example.

2 - Apple could port SIP and H.323 protocol stacks onto OS X relatively easy to create a "softphone" that would work with existing Voice-over-IP networks and gateways from Cisco, Avaya, Alcatel, etc. Alternately, XServe could be converted into a VoIP gateway and softswitch.

3 - Apple could use its partnership with Earthlink to allow home users to make "free" long distance calls with a .mac subscription.(Dialpad already makes Mac OS X VoIP VPN client software, for example). T.38 Fax-over-IP could be added, too. (www.faxserver.com)

4 - Devices and software already exist to convert PDAs into SIP softphones on 802.11 networks. I've seen this work on Compaq iPaq PDAs. Theoretically, future versions of AirPort could be combined with a tweaked Xserve to create an out-of-the-box wireless telephony solution for businesses.

5 - The www.danger.com Danger Hiptop is practically the perfect device for this - Apple could order a custom version with Bluetooth and 802.11, that could conceivably add GSM, and "wireless .Mac services".

[el_aarono]

Originally posted by theaz
what do you think of this report abut the iPhone:

http://www.irumors.net/

Interesting. Hopefully not manufactured.

$800!!! I would never pay that much for any handheld device! Hopefully this rumor is not accurate in that respect.


el_aarono

[CountZero]

$800 is pretty reasonable IMO, if you factor into the cost of BOTH the latest cell phone (T68i $250 without contract) and PDA (let's say Handspring or Palm ~$300). And remember, that $800 price tag is most likely phone only, without contract. With contract, I would expect it to be around $500 or may be less.

Of course if you are not a big MP3 user you can also factor the cost of the MP3 player into that price...

[jedakroub]

The Sony-Ericsson P800 is going to retail for around $800 when it becomes available in the US later this year. If you are not familiar with P800, it is a PDA-phone that has a full-color touch display, Java capabilities, etc. Go to www.sonyericsson.com for more info.

Would I pay $800 for an Apple phone? Probably. I have a real sickness when it comes to Apple products. However, I am not completely sold on the iPhone story. As much as I would love to tote around an Apple-branded iPhone or an iCam for that matter, there are just too many players in the field who are much more experienced. However, Apple, much like many Japanese companies, are quite good at taking existing technologies and making them better and more efficient.

I really try not to give these story much credence as I typically always end up disappointed. Hell, I'd buy an Apple toaster if they made one...

[CountZero]

Vic: Most European GSM carriers use GSM1800 for years. The GSM900 standard is there just for compatibility.

Also, with GSM who care that much whether your carrier is nation-wide or not. Roaming is the way to go, unless you are frequent traveller and don't want to pay roaming fee.

Compare to Europe, all of these US GSM carriers cover area larger than most European carrier alone.

Still, if only swapping carriers and retaining your phone number is as easy in the US as in Europe...

[wdw_]

Originally posted by gropius
Check Here(Sorry the web site is in Chinese, but have 3 Illustrations) (http://www.elesson.com.cn/modules/news/article.php?storyid=68)

Just Fun;)

You can just run this through Bablefish to get a decent translation.;)

http://babelfish.altavista.com/urltrurl?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elesson.com.cn%2Fmodules%2Fnews%2Farticle.php%3Fstoryid%3D68&lp=zh_en&tt=url

[Vic]

CountZero:

You've got to be insane...Have you ever gotten a $30 monthly wireless plan that charges an additonal $80 worth of 'roaming' added to your bill?

You only make that mistake once! My wireless service is Nationwide with "the entire U.S. as my HOME calling area". I NEVER pay roaming (Cingular just rased their roaming to 79 cents per min) or long distance for calls anywhere in the US. My bill is set and I can call and KNOW what my monthly bill will be.

You probably also signed a 2 or 3 year plan because they gave you a FREE phone. I'll bet it was a re-cond or last years out of production phone. Gota sucker......

Wake up and smell the ripoffs in wireless. Roaming is a BIG one. There are national wireless providers where you 'get more' than ripped off.

Vic

[makkystyle]

i think he lives in europe vic, hence the "here in europe" line, where everything (nearly) is GSM and every phone is at least dual-band, so therefore works everywhere. I live both in fairfax va and dublin ireland. Phone service has been much better (and cheaper, even in Ireland's small economy) due to the compatibility that GSM brings. If I were to "roam'' onto another network in Ireland the extra charge is very minimal and allows users to get a signal where their company's may be weak.

[makkystyle]

plus, try taking YOUR phone out of the US. The service you talk about, which I'm guessing is Sprint, has no compatibility with any other service anywhere in the world. this is great if you don't ever leave the states, but many people need to have that ability.

[MacArtist]

Originally posted by CountZero
$800 is pretty reasonable IMO, if you factor into the cost of BOTH the latest cell phone (T68i $250 without contract) and PDA (let's say Handspring or Palm ~$300). And remember, that $800 price tag is most likely phone only, without contract. With contract, I would expect it to be around $500 or may be less.

Of course if you are not a big MP3 user you can also factor the cost of the MP3 player into that price...

Actually from the Sony Ericsson website the T68i (http://www.buywirelessnow.com/sonyericsson/handset_T68i.asp) is $619.95 without a contract. It might be cheaper from a retailer but it is still pretty pricey.

And with all of this speculation nobody is thinking that this could be another iApp. If however it is a phone the major players are going to be Sony Ericsson and Cingular. They got a lot of stage time at MWNY and if I'm not mistaken Sony Ericsson has gotten stage time at a previous Macworld as well.

[Over Achiever]

Originally posted by wdw_


You can just run this through Bablefish to get a decent translation.;)

http://babelfish.altavista.com/urltrurl?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.elesson.com.cn%2Fmodules%2Fnews%2Farticle.php%3Fstoryid%3D68&lp=zh_en&tt=url

Just looking at the pictures...it looks like a phony photoshop job. And even look...there's a discussion on the bottom!

Note that it says "illustration by gropius";)

Finally, what a stupid design! (for a phone that is) A rotating keyboard...lol...i posted the pic of it...very clumsy design.

[Vic]

If he's talking about roaming in Europe, I stand corrected and apol. for my statememt to him.

They are a couple of years ahead of wireless in U.S. (That's hard for us to believe - but true) Roaming is the U.S. costs, big time!

I didn't want to turn my post into a commercial, but I have T-Mobile (old VoiceStream). I took my P280 to Italy and could use my US phone number to call back to the U.S. and have my company call me directly by using my U.S. phone number (with the Italy country code) for just 99 cents per min. In Italy, I got a local SIM and used that for my local calls. It worked great!

The T-Mobile service was outstanding. I was a Sprint customer, that's where I learned about getting ripped off "roaming". They brag about their Sprint PCS network, but just a few miles from my house they only had roaming at an extra cost / min. "I'm sorry Sir, but you're off the Sprint network." My T-Mobile works fine.

It may sound like a commercial, but I've very, very happy with my T-Mobile service that's GSM. I did my homework on wireless contracts before I got my current service.

If Apple gets a GSM phone, I'll take a very, very serious look at it!

Vic

[yamadataro]

Originally posted by mcrain


If you were really, I mean REALLY concerned about Japan, you wouldn't whine that Apple is excluding Japan and bemoaning how the only people who sell products in Japan are Japanese, but would rather take a closer look at your trade laws.

Why do you think most products sold in Japan are Japanese? Do you think it is because all Japanese products are better than everyone else's products?

Maybe, if Japan didn't levy large tariffs, and have trade protection rules/procedures, companies from all over the globe would sell there, and your "quality of life" might improve.

Just a thought.

I think you have a strong point. I honestly feel that Japan has too much trade limits for foreign companies. We suck.

I repeat. WE SUCK BIG TIME! :D

But come on! It's obvious that all of Japanese products are NOT better. But when it comes to electronics I think Japanese hardware is the best in the world, although we are very bad at software side which Apple is very very good at.

I used to live in NYC as a product designer and knows what kind of cell phones are available in the states and other parts of the world. Japanese phones are years ahead of Motorola, Nokia or whatever in functionality (not in aesthetics in my personal opinion). In Japan today, color LCD screens are standard and many of them already has CCD cameras. Now we have phones with GPS, MP3, Java-based application capability, MemoryStick slot and video camera. Phones with 64K/128K 24/7 net connection are widely available.

Welcome to the gadget land with a lotta techno-junkies like myself.

Uh, I'm starting to sound like I'm defending Japan here...

As to the Japanese cell phone market dominated by Japanese manufactures, it's about the stiff competition as well as this trade issue, I think. Japan is home to many international electronics manufactures. Naturaly all of them want to play big locally. Motorola and Ericsson used to be a part of the game, but they stepped out in the last couple of years. I have a feeling that the major reason behind it is the stiff competition rather than trade issue. To my eyes, their cutting edge phones did not look good enough among other phones back then. I mean we have something like 10 major electronics manufactures competing here!

After writing all this I feel like Apple might shy away from this weird land.

I just hope that Apple will come up with a fabulous iPhone to beat these Japanese phone suckers! :cool:

Excuse me for writing a lot about Japan. I just hope this Japanese market issue will make Apple's worldwide marketing standing point clearer for you guys.

By the way, given the news that Pixo will provide the iPod-like OS for iPhone, the portable OS X is gone???

[Over Achiever]

Since we're on the topic of phones...i like the coming features of the P800 by Sony-Ericsson...but can't they make it into a flip phone. Make it similar in design to Kyocera's future phone...now that will be an awesome phone :D

[makkystyle]

i'm on T-Mobile(Voicestream) also and have been very happy with the service. It was moving to europe that brought me to GSM. I don't know why the US decided to implement CDMA and the FCC divided each cellular carrier to it's own bandwidth. It has only made the move to cellular services that much more complicated. I mean it was only this year that I was finally able to send text messages to other phone carriers, that's unbelievable. Anyway, as Vic has recomended, voicestream is the way to go.... and don't be fooled by Sprint's "3G" services, they're not 3G.

oh yeah, go apple

[Silver Dragon]

I *hate* flip phones with a passion. I personally like the P800 just as it is, thank you.

[Over Achiever]

Originally posted by Silver Dragon
I *hate* flip phones with a passion. I personally like the P800 just as it is, thank you.

We all have our preferences;) Do you *hate* it as much as I *hate* people wanting dual processor tibooks?:D

Did you go to Hazeltine? I was too busy and have better things to watch...:)

[CountZero]

Vic: I live in NYC now but am British so I know how frustrating it is using cell phone in the US. Way, way behind (read at least 5 years) in terms of service plans, customer service, and phone choices. I understand where you are coming from in terms of roaming and as I said before, occussionaly roaming is what I need so an extra charge here or there I can bear. I didn't say but implied that if you travel frequently then you will probably get a different service plan anyway, which is what you did:) I agree that T-Mobile is the only carrier that I would consider for GSM in the US. I am currently on AT&T (my bad!) until P800 comes out. Then I will switch to T-Mobile and ditch my GSM phone in UK and use one phone for both side of the pond!

yamadataro: Japanese phones are good in terms of lots of gadgets and functions. But personally I prefer Nokia or Ericsson for solid UI and functionalities. And all of Nokia and Ericsson new phones are colours and 2.5G with camera. It is just that in US we are always months behind the products release. If I am in Europe now, I would have the Nokia 7650 for months! But alas, I am in the US and have to make do and wait for the SonyEricsson P800.

[Vic]

After I read a follow-up post, I realized that I misunderstood your position and offered a quick apoligy.

I did go back to read my original post to you and in hindsight, it was much too negative. My intent was not to insult you, but my post was much to negative toward you. Please accept my regret and misunderstaing.

And oh yes, Sprint is not 3G, no matter what their slick ads say.

Vic

[yamadataro]

Originally posted by CountZero
yamadataro: Japanese phones are good in terms of lots of gadgets and functions. But personally I prefer Nokia or Ericsson for solid UI and functionalities. And all of Nokia and Ericsson new phones are colours and 2.5G with camera. It is just that in US we are always months behind the products release. If I am in Europe now, I would have the Nokia 7650 for months! But alas, I am in the US and have to make do and wait for the SonyEricsson P800.

I have Nokia and Ericsson to use while I stay in Bangkok. I actualy like the simplicity, come to think of it. I might be somewhat spoiled in the Japanese gadget fever.

I'm expecting Apple to design something on the line of Nokia/Ericsson, not the Japanese ones.

Here I said it! :rolleyes:

[QuiteSure]

Originally posted by dongmin
Interesting to see the New York Times getting into Apple rumors

Does this mean that the NY Times will be denied a press pass to MWSF as a rumor site?:eek:

[barkmonster]

I'd love a flip out style phone that has a widescreen colour display, 10Gb HD, a custom OS X, 256Mb RAM and a usb port.

Email, easy messaging (built in keyboard), MacMAME (you know you love it) and Reason (protools LE would be a little out of the question) all on 1 device costing a little more than the 20Gb iPOD.

Now I'd buy one of those if it existed.

[CountZero]

No offense taken, Vic:) Sprint is probably the worse carrier of the lot. My friend who use Sprint always has billing problem, and the reception in NY is crap! I can't even call him when I was standing next to him with his phone having full 'bars' of signal and I was just put straight onto voicemail.

[RogueLdr]

With the touting of the SonyEricson (sorry for my spelling) hardware at MWNY, perhaps what Apple is trying to do is make their computers the most appealing to those who want to take full advantage of the next generation cell phones. With the enhancements eminent in 10.2, Apple may be simply having their OS be the best, most integrated solution for how to work with the cell phones of tomorrow.

While I would personally be interested in seeing how Apple would implement a cutting edge communications device, their best move might be to have strong partnerships with the high-end players in the industry. Ties such as these (read: "And we highly recommend Apple Computer for the best possible mobile communications experience." -Sony) could do more for Apple than trying to market their own OS specific cellular device. It would be a nice change to have other hardware manufacturers racing to get an Apple compatible product to market.

RL

[jettredmont]

First, please don't use Cingular, at least not exclusively. They are Cellular One plus a few other companies, rebranded, and I swore several years ago that I'd never use that sleazy company again. I cringed at MWNY. A cross-network phone as Motorolla et al make would be great, although more and more the "good" phones are being tied up with exlusive network deals.

Second, am I the only one in the world who thinks it's downright annoying to have a fragile flat plastic sheet plastered to my cheek while trying to talk on a phone? If there is a large display as in the Treo, etc, please make it at least partially concealed during "normal" phone use, and make the ear and mouth pieces stick out a bit so that they can be near their respective organ without having the center of the beast permanently implanted in my cheek bone.

Third, I don't see Apple going alone on this either, more along the lines of a rebranded or co-designed SonyErickson phone with a "real" cpu and OS underneath.

Fourth, however, it's odd that the company that wants the computer as a digital hub for multiple devices, and that champions technologies that allow multiple devices to talk freely amongst each other (firewire and bluetooth) would go the "all in one" route instead of perfecting the interface between a best-of-breed PDA and a best-of-breed phone. I don't need to lose my PDA when I change cell phones. Why merge two unrelated devices just now that the means to link them is finally available?

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by theaz
what do you think of this report abut the iPhone:

http://www.irumors.net/

Interesting. Hopefully not manufactured.

Hmmm indeed. Look at the suggested price: $800.

Would you pay $800 for a phone+PDA, especially a grayscale, small-screened, PDA? Pixio OS on a phone would be nice, but if I'm paying more than twice as much to get the functionality in one device as I would to get it in two separate devices, I think I'll stick with two devices ...

[CountZero]

Originally posted by jettredmont
Third, I don't see Apple going alone on this either, more along the lines of a rebranded or co-designed SonyErickson phone with a "real" cpu and OS underneath.

Ahhmmm... how do StrongARM CPU and Symbian OS not 'real'? In cellphone world, those two are recognised as the only choice for the future 'smart' phone. Do you really want a strip down version of Windows (that was never intended for embedded use in the first place) on your phone as in the Microsoft Stinger? Or a beef up PalmOS (that was not very good at communicating with others) as in the Treo? Symbian was designed for the ground up to be a smart phone OS. Lightweight, emphasis on communications, etc. Why would Apple throws away all these valuable research and re-invent the wheel?

Palm is moving toward using ARM chips in their PDA, abondoning DragonBall. Most PocketPC PDA use ARM chips already. There must be a reason for that other than economy of mass production.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by Vic
It may sound like a commercial, but I've very, very happy with my T-Mobile service that's GSM. I did my homework on wireless contracts before I got my current service.

T-Mobile, formerly VoiceStream, formerly something else (had a talking parrot as a mascot ... Omnipoint or something like that?). When it was two names back, I used them, and was very happy with both their service and support. Then I moved, and unfortunately couldn't get service through them at our new house, so had to switch.

So, as much as I'd absolutely hate it if Apple went Cellular One/Cingular, I'd love it if they went T-Mobile/VoiceStream/the only cell phone company I ever really had respect for!

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by makkystyle

Also remember that the New York Times is not a "rumors" site like this. They generally don't place articles based on the wishes of apple geeks like us, there is certainly a bit of marketing going on there, testing the waters so to speak.



I think the NYT appearance merely indicative of the cell phone market itself being more general and competitive, not proof that it is anything more than vapor. Qualcomm's Palm OS phones received simlar coverage as an early adapter in the "My Phones a PDA" sweepstakes- those phones barely made it to market if at all.

[sweetaction]

Originally posted by Gus
iSync comes out in "late September", Macword Expo Paris is in late September (which Steve is keynoting). Hmmm... Maybe the introduction of iPhone with the debut of iSync to show it off?

Just a thought.

Gus

Makes sense that they would announce it in Europe. They have wireless phones figured out over there. I spent some time in both France (Paris, Nice) and England (London/Scotland) this spring (and to my horror visited an Apple store in London that was running Windows 98 on their POS machines...) and everyone uses cell phones. That was my first experience with "texting." I couldnt figure out why folks were tapping away on the trains. I thought it was poor reception/redial. Nope.

Verizon wont be the carrier. They wont even be running the Sony Erricson phones. The sales fool I spoke to (while taking back my piece of crap C80 for Moto) said that Verizon had to choose between coverage and new networks and they went the route of widest coverage, as opposed to GSM and such that will get the US up to the same levels as Europe and Japan in regards to networks.

Cingular and At&T will be one company towards the end of the year (shhhh you didnt hear it from me). Both are using the t68i's and the same network technology already and they want to be #1. I know that offering the dopest phone will help them get there.


My vote is that Apple will brand a phone made by SE. They will use Cingular/AT&T and all of you (like me) will buy it.

mmmm hmmmm.

[Macette]

Originally posted by Over Achiever


Finally, what a stupid design! (for a phone that is) A rotating keyboard...lol...i posted the pic of it...very clumsy design.

The Bang & Oluffson fixed-line phone has a scroll wheel for typing in names & numbers in your phone book ... it's very effective actually. Though not so good for SMS I suspect, since we've all got used to the button method. Still, people thought the mouse was a weird idea to begin with.

[G4scott]

I think that the major reason that the US is behind in the cell phone market, is because of the corporate leadership... In the US, things like mobile phones are driven by how much money the companies can make, not how many features they can give their customers...

I don't know what else to say about this rumored phone... My cell phone is a year old Nokia, cheapo phone... It's the one you get free with the plan... I use it mainly to keep in touch with my family, since we have a free phone-to-phone plan, and I'll use it to call friends sometimes, but that's about it. It only stores phone numbers, and not much else. It would be nice, though, to put my friends phone numbers on my phone, and then hook it up to my iBook, and transfer the contact info... Of course, this is what iSync is for, but I don't have the phone to use it. It is really hard to keep and maintain 3 contact lists: 1 on the computer, 1 on the PDA, and 1 on the phone. Apple's trying to make this much easier for everyone. There are so many times that I wished I could have all of my contact info together... I know for sure, though, that any iPhone that Apple may introduce will have tons of Apple innovations... We've seen what they can do to the MP3 player market, maybe they can do the same with the cell phone market. (the only thing, is that I'm skeptical about the cell phone market, because it's a more professional market than the mp3 player market, and there are many more companies with plenty of good innovations...)

If this post confuses you, don't worry... I'm just really sleepy, and on medication for a cold... Who gets a cold in the middle of August with 100° weather... man this sux...

[beatle888]

Originally posted by Vic in response to CountZero
After I read a follow-up post, I realized that I misunderstood your position and offered a quick apoligy.

I did go back to read my original post to you and in hindsight, it was much too negative. My intent was not to insult you, but my post was much to negative toward you. Please accept my regret and misunderstaing.

And oh yes, Sprint is not 3G, no matter what their slick ads say.

Vic


very cool:cool:

[christof]

To be honest with you...

Apple's going to market this phone for the USA first. While it makes totaly business sense to develop the phone for GSM/GPRS networks, which it seems will be the case (because of the Cingular Wireless "partnership"), I really hope that Apple considers a cdma2000/1xrtt-based device.

The problem with GSM/GPRS deployment (in the USA) is that it seems that the USA cannot stay in line with the rest of the world in regard to GSM-based 3g networks. EDGE and UMTS... The USA wants to go in one direction while the rest of the world wants to go in another...

Yet... In the USA, there's one thing that's for certain... The #1 and #4 carriers, Verizon Wireless and Sprint PCS, have their "3G" networks ready... And will be able to provide services that Cingular and Voicestream/T-Mobile have yet to deliver to their consumers. AT&T Wireless, it seems, will be able to bring GSM/GPRS services that will appeal to many via mMode, but Cingular and VoiceStream/T-Mobile have yet to show their guns.

Verizon Wireless and Sprint PCS have a network in place... Verizon Wireless has a large customer base and many business customers... Everything has come together on the cdma2000/1xrtt side here in the United States... In fact, it's going to cost less to implement and bring more users to cdma2000/1xrtt than GSM/GPRS/W-CDMA/EDGE/UMTS...

Check out this very recent report put out by Morgan Stanley (http://www.cdg.org/3GPavilion/resources/morgan_stanley_june02.pdf)

According to the report, all that's really missing are killer apps and killer handsets. Sprint PCS (and Verizon Wireless) have brought to market many killer applications... There are many more to come. While Sprint PCS has some killer handsets, there is nothing that has truly tested the boundaries... Sure, Treo's and Pocket PC's by Audiovox/Toshiba are great, and Samsung phones that have a camera dongle to attach to them are great, and Kyocera Smartphone PDA's are great... But slick phones that enable true usability are what Apple can bring to the market...

An application like Sherlock would be killer... iChat... Rendezvouz... Those are just the beginning... Once we see MPEG-4 playing on QuickTime Player, ON OUR iPhones... Apple will have one the game... No one sees it.

Apple will become the power house... Video is the wave of the future... You and I will be able to e-mail movies to our iPhones... CNN will be able to stream the latest news to Quicktime player. AOL will provide the instant messaging network for iPhone... iPhoto... There are too many possibilities...

Ultimately, however, we return to the three main players... The device/handset makers... The service providers... And the killer app developers... It In these three positions, Apple can make a killing on two of them... Killer apps and device/handsets... Let's just hope that they choose the right service provider(s).

[senjaz]

Originally posted by CountZero

Symbian was designed for the ground up to be a smart phone OS. Lightweight, emphasis on communications, etc.

Symbian was an OS designed from the ground up to be a multi-tasking palmtop computer (organiser) OS. Being a Psion owner for many years I know that Symbian was once EPOC32, used on the Series 5s and 7s palmtop computers.

Because of the threat of WinCE now PocketPC Psion started (with a mobile producer, Nokia I think) a neutral organisation Symbian to act as custodian for the OS and develop it for it to be used in future pocket devices, especially communications ones.

Psion did not create EPOC32 as a smart phone OS. Smart phones were not even conceived then. Also do not confuse the desktop version of Windows with the Embedded versions, they are totally different code bases. Windows Embedded is a much better engineered product than Windows on the desktop. That said, EPOC32 because of its engineering made a good base for all manner of portable devices.

Psion used to publish a news letter for its customers which allowed us to follow this transition through to their exiting the market.

[whatever]

Why would Apple need to make a PC compatible phone? Most phones currently out are not PC compatible and most people out there who have phones which are PC compatible don't connect their phones to their computers.

If, which I doubt they ever will, Apple came out with a phone it would be in their best interest not to be compatible with a PC. Instead they would need to be compatible with PALM OS, but only to the degree where someone could beam addresses or appointments to the phone device for either a first time sync or as a way to get info from someone else.

[skunk]

Isn't that just vCards? Even the iPod does those...

[iH8Quark]

Originally posted by christof
I really hope that Apple considers a cdma2000/1xrtt-based device.


That's absurd. Although you backed your opinion up very well, the very reason why the USA is of the LEAST importance to cell phone companies is because of our differing technology. Companies have to manufacture an entirely different standard just for us, making it expensive and impractical.

CDMA is far inferior to GSM. We need to get with the program. Have you ever seen the phones in europe and japan? They're incredible. It will be 2 or three years before we see those products here...if at all. We're last priority.

I read the article, it's such hollow speculation, it can't even be elevated to the level of "rumor". I doubt Apple will make a Cellular phone / PDA. IMO. Not a single cell phone company on the market makes money off of their phones. They make money on service contracts, and kickbacks from service providers. And, mostly, routers and switches for the services. most phones are a loss leader.

We all know Apple. They're about one thing and one thing ONLY...MOO-LAH. Phones are not a high profit item, and there's fierce competition. I personally doubt this speculation will produce anything.

[Stalker]

Greetings,

Several years ago the Bang & Olufsen company released a very nice and designed version of an Ericsson cell phone. This was in the mid 90's and it was based on one of the first Ericsson GSM phones.

Bang & Olufsen, known for their beautiful video and audio systems, took the core of an ordinary phone, put their own speaker technology into the unit, made a lot of design improvements (a beautiful cradle etc) and released it under their own brand.

Apple might do exactly that.

Take a look at the slick new SonyEricsson P800 or the Nokia 7650. These phones are available today. Try to understand that the world uses the GSM system and that the U.S. is lagging. Forget about bulky and user-unfriendly palm- and pocketpc cell hybrids.

Try to understand that Ericsson and Nokia rule this market.

Ladies and gentlemen, start writing your aqua-enabled midlets. This is a new market.

[skunk]

Some of these phones go for a ton of money over here, like $500-600, and that's without all the Apple bells and whistles. It could just work, dammit!:)

[Gigglebyte]

Originally posted by crazy_will
i think that toshiba (correct me if i'm wrong) makes the hds for the iPod

Smartdisk supplies the drives for the iPod

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by Gigglebyte


Smartdisk supplies the drives for the iPod

Everyone knows the iPod uses Sony MemorySticks. The Spearmint flavored ones. Of course you can't get to the data because your computer doesn't have a floppy. DOESN'T HAVE A FLOPPY.

Now this Mavica Phone Apple is thinking of making, after Sony buys Apple, should really be something. You can save your phone call on an ordinary Floppy disc! How about them Apples? You don't even have to call anyone, because you can simply mail them the disk. Or walk it over to them. Here's your "voice mail"- Look-- its on a *FLOPPY*!!

And your teeth won't change color either, like those memory sticks do when you chew them. Who wants to talk on the phone when their teeth are blue? Someone might see you!

[macman21]

Originally posted by Gigglebyte


Smartdisk supplies the drives for the iPod

Um, it is most definately Toshiba.

[BongHits]

Originally posted by Wry Cooter


An Apple phone would have to be-
-branded, manufactured and sold by a major player in cellular
-carried, supported and marketed by at least one major carrier
- a totally useable phone/PDA outside higher bandwidth footprints, perhaps even reverting to analog coverage.
- Great form factor and long battery life



What? Sony Erricson? You don't think.... :eek:

[BongHits]

Originally posted by Wry Cooter


An Apple phone would have to be-
-branded, manufactured and sold by a major player in cellular
-carried, supported and marketed by at least one major carrier
- a totally useable phone/PDA outside higher bandwidth footprints, perhaps even reverting to analog coverage.
- Great form factor and long battery life



What? Sony Erricson? You don't say? :eek:

[shadowfax0]

I just hope they can top an Ericsson T39, this thing (to me at least, but I feel I speak the truth) is the best phone there is. Does *EVERYTHING* Bluetooth, IrDA, GSM/GPRS, you can check your mail, go on the internet, it works in over 120 different countries via tri-band (yes, I *can* use this phone in Afghanistan!) can store alot more addresses/phone #'s/general info (more than other phones I looked at) has the backlight always on, so even if you're walking down the street and wander into a shadow you can still see it, is about the size of a deck of cards (part of the reason it was so appealing), the original battery that came with it was so thin I thought it wasn't there, so I bought the larger one adn get 350 Hrs + of standby time and about 6-9 hours of talk time. ****, the thing even ahs alot of boring , mind-rotting, terribly addictive games on it! Lots of your basic stuff, ring tones, pictures, and and I forgot SMS, good god how I love my SMS! It can alert you if your stock quotes go below a certain level (or if your baseball team loses) I find this phone *amazing* and to tell you the truth only thing it lacks is a colour screen, that's really about it. But hey, Apple always has somethign great to offer, they may miss alot of the features described above, but they ALWAYS make of for it by having somethign else that's really, really well done and/or very unique and useful. So good luck to Apple, but if the iPhone never becomes reality, I'll stick with this baby :)

[shadowfax0]

Just as some food for thought, go here:

http://www.sonyericsson.com/us/spg.jsp?page=start

and look at that little banner in the corner :) You can make whatever you want of it, that's what you guys are good at :D

[Wry Cooter]

I just want to mention a couple of things I would want to see in a phone related iApp.

-being able to download and sort caller ID info

-caller ID that can interact with a customer database on your computer in realtime via the phones bluetooth.

Those are just a couple of phone like productivity bits I'd like to see. What about listing possible features on the phone itself that could be more PDA like?

- maps...GPS even.

- if not interactive live web pages- the ability to read archived daily news sites from a sync,

-ability to share this info with similar phones during a call

[ThinkDifferent]

Originally posted by flanders
it would work; they'd just create a gsm version of the phone first. A tri-band GSM phone would be able to be used almost everywhere in the world--even North America (GSM1900/900) and would just require the usual SIM to be inserted into the phone from any of the providers. I don't think you'd see any CDMA/TDMA phones especially early on.


But who would provide the service for the iPhone? Would Apple provide the service, or would they team up with a provider? I just want to know so I can buy one and use it.

_________________________________

Mac users are the only people who haven't been brain washed!

[clubsport]

I think $800 would be fine. Some Nokia and Ericsson phones cost about $700, and imagine all the features an Apple phone would have. Besides, iPods cost $599, and a phone would offer all the features of it, and more.

[makkystyle]

Just a couple of points to add about a previous post by christof.....

The reason for the US lagging behind in the cellular market is not about corporate america, it is about the FCC. The FCC hindered growth in the cellular market by assigning each individual carrier it's own bandwidth. This meant that AT&T phones were not compatible with Sprint networks and vice versa. This meant that for cell phones to become truly useful and adopted by the consumer companies had to develop their own "nationwide" network. This is the reason for Sprint, who is one of the worst service providers with mediocre product offerings, has become the most dominant force in cellular communications, because they were the first with a nationwide network.

As far as 3G services, last time I checked Sprint , running CDMA 1xRTT, is not yet "3G". The max transmission speed for 1xRTT is only 144kbps. This is "2.5G", 3G will become a reality when they implement phase 2 which will be called 3xRTT and will alow transmission of up to 2Mbps. It should be mentioned here that T-Mobile (formerly Voicestream) had a 2.5G system implemented at the beginning of this year. It is a GPRS system used on their GSM networks and handles transmission of up to 171.2Kbps. You'll notice this is still faster than Sprint's.

Additionally, T-Mobile has always had much better handsets than any of the Sprint handsets because they have been able to tap into the huge pool of resources provided by GSM's worldwide acceptance as a standard. Take a look at the new SonyEricsson T68. When it used to be voicestream they were also the first to have the latest Nokia and Ericsson phones, which have been pretty much accepted as the most user-friendly and well manufactured handsets.

Don't believe everything you see on TV, Sprint is not 3G. It will not be for some time. Effective data rates on 1xRTT are essentially the same as GPRS. 3G phones will not become a viable consumer product for at least another 18-24 months in my opinion.

[pretentious]

I just want to mention a couple of things I would want to see in a phone related iApp.

-Being able to download and sort caller ID info

Wry Cooter


I think that iPhone is (or was) just that, an iApp. This could be linked to your phone line, pop up when ever your phone rings w/ caller-id info, and with a separate Apple headset, you could answer off of your Mac, this could also be linked to your Address Book and call directly from it.

But I think it might be dropped, because how long have they registered the name "iPhone" (isp, copy write). Because I think the idea is just too gimmicky, even by Apple's standards.

Although could be cool by an outside vender

[Stalker]

Greetings,

You might all be barking up the wrong tree.

Maybe Apple is planning to fit a GPRS/GSM card inside the new powerbook. Such card is available today from several vendors like Ericsson and Nokia and is more or less a complete cellphone on a PCMCIA card.

If Apple fits one of those inside the PowerBook, people all over the world will be able to access the Internet without wires, even if they are outside the range of their Airports, automatically switching over to GPRS when needed.

All other functions, i.e. caller ID, SMS, MMS etc will thus be "built-in" and could easily be handled by an iPhone application. You could also connect a headset to the PowerBook and answer/make calls. A GPRS connection usually gives some 30-40 kbit/s at the moment, which is quite acceptable in real life. The cost is zero or almost zero, no connection fees and maybe $2-$3 per downloaded MB.

All it needs is a GSM subscription card (your operator can provide you with a twin-card, a copy of the one you have in your cellphone) and most European operators will happily give Apple some $200 for each new subscriber.

Think different, people.

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by Stalker


Think different, people.

I think 2 bucks a megabyte is not anything the US market would be willing to support. Telephony apps yes, but most comm rates that do well at all these days are flat rate plans.

[Stalker]

Originally posted by Wry Cooter


I think 2 bucks a megabyte is not anything the US market would be willing to support. Telephony apps yes, but most comm rates that do well at all these days are flat rate plans.

I'm sure most people will love GPRS and paying per recieved info instead of connected minutes and seconds. 1 MB is really a lot of information when it comes to cellphones, wml-pages etc. It is even a lot of video for a small screen @ 28 kbit/s.

Also, I don't believe you if you are saying that you pay a flat rate for _cellular_ calls and data. DSL yes, Cable yes, but cellular? You might, as most operators in Europe, have GPRS access for free for two or three months, but sooner or later, they will start to charge you for the traffic.

And, as I recall, the U.S. are one of the most expensive areas to use cellphones. At my company we pay approx 2.5 cents per minute for calls to and from our GSM phones. How much do you pay in the U.S.?

And according to Cingular I'm not even allowed to use their GPRS services, despite that my cellphone (with an European subscription) roams with Cingular and I can make all kinds of voice calls.

I can't even buy a prepaid card that includes GPRS. I probably need a social security number, valid U.S. address, hand on my heart and pledge allegiance to the flag, etc, before I'm allowed to access GPRS in California.

This is very bad for the wireless market and its customers in the U.S.

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by Stalker


And, as I recall, the U.S. are one of the most expensive areas to use cellphones. At my company we pay approx 2.5 cents per minute for calls to and from our GSM phones. How much do you pay in the U.S.?

As I suggested earlier, a great deal of the U.S. is on a flat rate. I was including cellular traffic, as well as the internet traffic you were speaking of.

There are people paying by the minute, but they are suckers, or simply in a market where there is not enough competition.

However, you will get U.S. customers happy as a clam to pay for MORE minutes than they need-- much of the flat rate anywhere in the U.S. plans are exactly this. They don't mind paying more than they need to to keep their cell phone in a worry free convenient usage plan, they just don't want surprises on their bill, or too many surprises in their service.

[CupertinoSlim]

There's not enough profit margin for Apple to build or rebrand phones. Let's think about what Apple could do with software in iPods and Macs, and how that could interplay with phones...

Apple could add features to existing software to leverage Bluetooth from a future iPod or an iBook. It would talk to a Bluetooth phone to:
- dial numbers from the Address Book
- log calls, add new numbers to the Address Book
- bring up contact info for incoming calls
- switch a Bluetooth headset from being used for music to being used for a phone when a call starts, then switch back when the call is done
- store a phone's ring tones, photos etc on an iPod or Mac

An iPhone app on Mac OS X could use VoIP to provide an Internet phone and fax node, using a headset connected by Bluetooth or USB. The Mac would be the user interface for using the phone.
- call other iPhone users over the Internet - free long distance
- iPhone should be a multimedia phone, with video as well as audio. If it supports H.323 it could interoperate with Windows PCs using MS NetMeeting.
- download ring tones, send & receive MMS messages - like having a high-end cell phone but at landline or Internet talk time rates.

If Apple wants to get more radical, it could make an Airport base station that also serves as a 2.4GHz phone, or uses a 2.4GHz phone to access the landline. (802.11b uses the same 2.4GHz frequency). iPhone could also use that line rather than VoIP.

[cubist]

Originally posted by iH8Quark

...
CDMA is far inferior to GSM. We need to get with the program. Have you ever seen the phones in europe and japan? They're incredible. It will be 2 or three years before we see those products here...if at all. We're last priority.


This is a false statement. Anyone who understands the technologies is well aware that CDMA is vastly superior to GSM.

GSM is only popular in Europe because it was mandated by the governments.