New MS Laptop Hunter Ad

[Eidorian]

Actually, the Conslole is extremely helpful in troubleshooting a problem, DLL Hell not being one of them. Unlike Windows apps, OS X apps do not install DLLs in shared folders scattered randomly throughout the OS, so that you don't have application bits and fragments disseminated all over, making updates more vulnerable to complications.

The ads do indirectly illuminate Apple's presence as a competitor - which only helps Apple, in that consumers who had previously wandered by their stores, will now more likely be enticed to wander in to have a look for themselves. With over 51% of purchases made by previous Windows users, anything which channels attention toward this strategy is certainly welcome.Can you elaborate?

[MyDesktopBroke]

I think he means that in OS X, you can uninstall an entire application by dragging the launch icon into the trash.

[neiltc13]

I think he means that in OS X, you can uninstall an entire application by dragging the launch icon into the trash.

If only that were true.

[ButtUglyJeff]

I wonder how this "film maker" is going to get Final Cut Pro on there......

[300zxjpm]

I wish Apple would take more heart to these commercials and get with the times. The commercials are true and I believe they have the ability to offer an even better product if they took these real world situations and applied them to there product.

P.s. the new macbook pro needs a quieter mouse pad, and the cd burner sounds like my old xbox overheating,...I wish I didn't get rid of my old pro

[blackhand1001]

I wish Apple would take more heart to these commercials and get with the times. The commercials are true and I believe they have the ability to offer an even better product if they took these real world situations and applied them to there product.

P.s. the new macbook pro needs a quieter mouse pad, and the cd burner sounds like my old xbox overheating,...I wish I didn't get rid of my old pro

I know how you feel. I really thought the design of the previous gen macbook pro was the best combination of good design and a professional look. They pretty much had perfection. The new one is way to flashy looking for my taste.

[FieryFurnace]

...
Don't ever believe there's anything a PC can do that a Mac can't (except when it comes to high-end gaming). Apple has a very significant user base and Macs are very popular among developers. On top of that, it's pretty easy to port things from Linux to OSX. Everything exists, so don't give me this semen load of "THEN WHY CAN'T MY MAC DO THIS?!"

Gaming is a huge business, Apple would love to have a share of it, I guess.

And what about 3D modeling?
I would love to have 3ds Max and SolidWorks for OSX,...

[dlastmango]

I edit professionally every day on my 13 white MacBook. 2.0 Ghz Core duo with 2gb of ram. there are times i hook it up to a 20" Cinema display but on the road editing is what I mostly do. Works like a charm.

Chris

[skeep5]

You know what blows my mind about all these ads, other than their inane stupidity?

The fact that they're Microsoft ads, where they're supposed to be advertising WINDOWS and the OS is never even a FACTOR in any of these ads. The entire reason of Apple's existence is because of their software. Hardware is a secondary thing. Yet these ads are solely about the cheapest possible hardware that fulfills random bullet points that are convenient. Guess what? Some PC will ALWAYS be able to beat out a mac with that ridiculous comparison.

These ads are so incredibly intellectually dishonest. Instead of arguing the merits of Windows over OSX, its down to advertising for HP, etc. Pretty damn pointless. At least mac ads attempt to point out differences between the 2 Operating systems (as well as not pretending to be candid 'home video' footage, which is extremely insulting to the intelligence)

Amen, and amen. Apple ad: we're better than you, sorry. Microsoft ad: Oh yeah? I'm a cheap date!

[Wikinerd]

some pcs have more bloatware (as you call it) but 10 minutes customizing a pc goes a long way. Apple users don't customize their computers?

Customization and removing bloatware/installing security patches, installing antiviral software, defragging, check for registry errors, etc are different.

——and those points that you quoted are recommended by reputable tech news organizations. (plz see the links a few pages back...)

Mac users are often walked through a quick setup procedure that can be called "customization". This "customization" does not involve fixing anything that Microsoft left out and removing bloatware.

If only that were true.

Actually that is true. Apart from a few plist files that you might want to keep, yes, that uninstalls the whole application.

Gaming is a huge business, Apple would love to have a share of it, I guess.

And what about 3D modeling?
I would love to have 3ds Max and SolidWorks for OSX,...

I'm guessing if it weren't for the tight hold Microsoft has on DirectX... Or else they would've lost gaming too--

God damn, why do people keep bringing this up? It hasn't been an issue for almost 10 years now.

Really? Last time I had to reinstall it was because of hal.dll corruption... hmph...

Lots of fud there.
I especially like windows restarts itself 3 tiimes a week. Funny my desktops do the same exact thing but only after it downloads and installs updates.
Arguing about drivers is ridiculous. i never understood why anyone would want to use an OLd driver when a new driver can be download in a couple of minutes.
windows bad; mac good

Partly because of the inconsistency of where the drivers can be downloaded from?

[Eidorian]

Actually that is true. Apart from a few plist files that you might want to keep, yes, that uninstalls the whole application.We've been over /Library/Application Support and other nonsense already.

Lets hope nothing makes it into /bin, /sbin, or /usr/bin.

[Wikinerd]

We've been over /Library/Application Support and other nonsense already.

Lets hope nothing makes it into /bin, /sbin, or /usr/bin.

Most of the other apps don't use them. If you want to be sure though you can always use AppZapper but that's for some of the other apps that put files in Application Support. Even so they'll make such a minute difference that you can free up more space by just deleting a document from your downloads folder.

And no. I've never seen anything making their way into /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin if they're one of the "simple" drag-the-app-from-the-dmg-to-app-folder apps...

[Wikinerd]

Can you elaborate?

I believe he has done so already...

"c:\gdalwin32-1.6\bin\GEOS_C.DLL" contains errors. The application has
failed to start because its side-by-side configuration is incorrect.
Please see the application event log for more detail (14001)."

[Eidorian]

I believe he has done so already...I'd blame the software developer for that one.

No that's not Microsoft in this case. In OS X you'll get a something similar in the Application Has Unexpectedly Quit dialog if you want to dig into it.

[Wikinerd]

I'd blame the software developer for that one.

No that's not Microsoft in this case. In OS X you'll get a something similar in the Application Has Unexpectedly Quit dialog if you want to dig into it.

No—I believe his point is that DLLs generally create more problems than they solve. Esp. since that the problem they're created to solve is now gone.

(why compile them into libraries when you can easily troubleshoot file by file?)

[Eidorian]

No—I believe his point is that DLLs generally create more problems than they solve. Esp. since that the problem they're created to solve is now gone.

(why compile them into libraries when you can easily troubleshoot file by file?)Dependency problems aren't something only inherent to Windows.

[Wikinerd]

Dependency problems aren't something only inherent to Windows.

I think this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DLL_hell) would be a more thorough explanation. Regardless my experience was that going into /Library and ~/Library or going into the Applications make troubleshooting easier than DLL's...

[pmjoe]

$2000? Those people Microsoft only gave $1500 to must feel ripped off now.

[JBLinkinsop]

But like I said why would she want to install a third party one when Macs are all about "it just works". Also you do realise it's not only the OS that needs RAM. OMG Mac hardware is the best. Apple is NOT overpriced, but just in case buy the base setup and go to the third party for HD and RAM because they're cheaper. Funny. :D What happened to superior and non-overpriced hardware? If she asked Apple to upgrade her RAM, the machine would definitely be out of her budget.

Apple RAM though not the cheapest ever, is not that expensive. You can upgrade the RAM at time of purchase and Apple will buy back the RAM in the machine.

[FX120]

Really? Last time I had to reinstall it was because of hal.dll corruption... hmph...


File corruption =/= DLLhell.

DLLhell refers to cross-application depedency on shared resource files and libraries, that one application might modify, update, or move, breaking compatability with other applications.

You want to talk about DLL issues today, which are an uncommon problem now, think back to the days of 16-bit Windows, when DLL hell was really relavent because every lazy dev in the universe was cranking out apps that grossly missued the tool. Stacking DLL on top of DLL on top of DLL on top of someone elses DLL.

It hasn't been a significant problem since Windows 2000, when Microsoft made several core changes that went a long way to prevent dependency mismatch. Believe me, the issues described in this thread do not even begin to compare to the *****torm that was a daily occurance with Windows 3.

[Chwisch87]

I also agree. It is just stupid when Sheila says the MBP doesn't have as much RAM as the other computers. What many people do not know about Macs that have not used them much is that they don't need nearly as much RAM compared to Vista. A Mac running Leopard should be able to run better than Vista with only 1/4 of the memory. And if Sheila really needs more memory, its called order 4GB from OWC for only $50.

Apple needs to fight back with a commercial that lets new computer buyers know this.

HA ... you think apple wants to do that ... this is a company that up until recently was notorious for overcharging for ram by several hundred dollars. Even today its over priced. Apple wants to sell they expensive ram to people who have lots of money but don't know any better.

These ads are not targeted towards computer people. Look anyone who knows anything about computers has picked a side in the mac PC world and are 90% likely to stick to it ... its not worthing trying to convince them to change. The rest of the world who are pretty much computer idiots (wouldn't know what to do when an error message hits them in the face) are the ones that both apple and microsoft target all their ads to.

[Chwisch87]

Gaming is a huge business, Apple would love to have a share of it, I guess.

And what about 3D modeling?
I would love to have 3ds Max and SolidWorks for OSX,...

Gaming as officially surpassed music and movie sales this year ... the fact that apple is more opening trying to court game devs is really a stupid decision as all of their machines now have proper GPU's in some form or another.

Unless apple embraces customizable user built computers (which it won't) like you can do in windows, its very very unlikely gaming will ever truly come to mac outside of Blizzard. Computer gaming is quite frankly built around users upgrading all the time to be able to run the most graphically intensive games. There will be a new Crysis here soon of some sort that will push the current hardware to the limit. The only recent uptick in gaming on mac has come from advances in emulation software as we all know which requires more power from a mac than comparable PC to run the system.

[Chwisch87]

DLL "hell" is officially off the table. It hasn't been a problem for a VERY long time now. I challenge anyone to go find a DLL problem post in a windows forum around the nets ... if you find more than one i will be surprised lol.

If you want to talk about windows problems. It's mostly caused by BSOD stop errors caused by typically either bad hardware or bad third party drivers.

[cycomiko]

This is true about the ram. I'm running 4GB in my MBP and I've never had less than .99GB in free ram for a while I actually thought somethings was wrong. I'll run stuff like iMovie, Safari, iTunes, and a few other things and always about a gig of nothing happening.

My works ASUS notebook has 2gigs running vista. It sits at jsut over 1gig of useage at startup.

I run multiple firefox, thunderbird, itunes, torrent application, digsby, flashget, skype, ie7 (gotta :( ), word etc... and it stays at a gig of useage.

My iMac sits at less useage on startup, but gets to about the gig mark with the apps going...

they seem pretty even to me

[hazza.jockel]

OK so i just skim read through this thread so forgive me if this has already been pointed.

I think these MS ads are quite good in getting a point across. Basically not everyone has a lot of money to spend on getting a computer especially with the financial problems the world is having so when they do go and buy one they want to get the most out of their money. The average person might not know what RAM does but they might know/think that more is better. The average person won't know the proclaimed benefits of Mac OSX. The average person goes "oh a Video editor uses that laptop I bet it would be good for me." So what everyone hear needs to remember is that these ads aren't directed at tech savvy people who know about these things but they are directed at people who are short of cash, want the best "specs" with out knowing what is actually better and who don't know much about computers.

So before going "oh why did she buy the HP with 4gigs of ram compared to the Macbook with 2gig when vista drains ram?" or " why did she pick the Hp that cant run final cut" just remember who the ads are aimed at.

[kaostheory777]

At the end of the commercial she has a Laptop in the box and a carrier bag. What's in the carrier bag? My guess would be:


The Virus Software she needs for the PC
The £800 video editing software she'll need
A manual of Windows Error codes
And a large stick to beat some Sanity back into her


Really folks does Microsoft really expect us to buy the fact that any "Video Artist" would rather be using a PC than a MacBook Pro?

Another example that proves these are (poor) actors and not "real" people!

[pdxflint]

OK so i just skim read through this thread so forgive me if this has already been pointed.

I think these MS ads are quite good in getting a point across. Basically not everyone has a lot of money to spend on getting a computer especially with the financial problems the world is having so when they do go and buy one they want to get the most out of their money. The average person might not know what RAM does but they might know/think that more is better. The average person won't know the proclaimed benefits of Mac OSX. The average person goes "oh a Video editor uses that laptop I bet it would be good for me." So what everyone hear needs to remember is that these ads aren't directed at tech savvy people who know about these things but they are directed at people who are short of cash, want the best "specs" with out knowing what is actually better and who don't know much about computers.

So before going "oh why did she buy the HP with 4gigs of ram compared to the Macbook with 2gig when vista drains ram?" or " why did she pick the Hp that cant run final cut" just remember who the ads are aimed at.

Well, I also only read the last couple of pages of comments here... but here goes... I have to kind of disagree with you about Microsoft being good at getting a point across... I think they're really blowing smoke at their target audience - but I will agree with one thing you said - that they do know their intended audience... which is a sad commentary by itself.

My comment on the most recent "Sheila the filmmaker" MS ad:

It's almost painful to watch... painful in a guilty pleasure sort of way, like watching a train wreck. It's kind of sad that MS is targeting ignorant people (their intended cutomers) by portraying other ignorant people in their commercials buying computers. The 'buyers' all seem to want some generic similar benefit (fast processor, comfortable keyboard, big screen, something that can "cut video" or maybe run a word processor, or play games, or play DVD movies... or some other inane benefit, which is played up as somehow a deal-maker or deal-breaker to the ignorant target audience.) So, now MS is bracketing them in different price ranges... still comparing them to Macs - in every single commercial a Macbook or Macbook Pro get's fondled briefly, then dismissed for some completely ridiculous reason. Perpetuating the anti-Mac myths is always part of these commercials, which also shows MS is targeting the ignorant. It's really sad, and more of an indictment of MS for failure to truly respect their own potential customers. Who are they fooling? Really? Some people, of course, but it's not that hard to recognize snake-oil sales techniques when you see them. Hey, if the intended customer doesn't know any better, all the better for the slick sales techniques, (i.e. manipulation of the potential customer with just barely enough truth to allow a big dose of untruth to slide by, or go down without protest.)

Sheila: "Is this graphic card going to be powerful...?"

Retail Fry's guy: "Uhmm hmm!"
(there's an implied 'you betcha!' right there, but never truly stated what that means... Boy, that would make me feel happy if I were shopping video editing hardware... I suppose. <~ironic sarcasm~>)

Sheila: "Wow!"
(clearly from an edit....err, I mean video 'cut'.)

Sheila: "Will it comfort me and make me feel all tingly late at night?"

Retail Fry's guy: "Uhh hmmm! Sure! It'll do whatever you want." (immediately looks away)

Sheila: "Oh.., wow! Wow!" (closes her eyes momentarily, shudders)
"I think I'm buying this computer! No! Wait! I AM buying this computer..."

(Whew! Glad we finally got that figured out. The suspense and drama was just approaching intolerable levels. I can now sleep easy knowing the answer to the big question; what particular brand of PC laptop would be featured in this little version of "Computer Buying For Dummies" non-reality show.

[hazza.jockel]

Perpetuating the anti-Mac myths is always part of these commercials

And the I'm A Mac ads don't perpetuate any windows myths? Of course they do. Companies do what they have to to sell a product. In this case MS is targeting people who won't realize these are myths and take them as fact. Just as in some of the I'm a Mac ads.

[macffooky]

Freeware is almost non-existant on a Mac as well. Aside from VLC, Perian, and Adium, what decent freeware is there?

On my MBP I have:

Audacity
avidemux
Burn
Carbon Copy Cloner
checksum+
Cog
D-Vision 3
Easyfind
FairMount
Grand Perspective
Handbrake
JollysFastVNC
LiquidCD
MacPar deluxe
Max
MKVtoolnix
MPEG Streamclip
MPlayer OSX Extended
myDVDEdit
Onyx
Plex
RapidSVN
SABnzbd+
SMARTReporter
smcfancontrol
SnapNDrag
TextWrangler
tsmuxer GUI
Tux Paint
UnRarX
VideoMonkey
Winclone
xACT
XLD

along with large number of CLI apps augmented by MacPorts and Wine. The only commercial app I use regularly that I could not just as easily replicate with equivalently convenient freeware is EyeTV.

[PlayRadioPlay]

Out of curiosity, did anyone else buy their Mac laptop fully expecting to upgrade the RAM, but then didn't because you were surprised by/satisfied with the speed?

I have a 17" MacBook Pro. I run some pretty huge Logic Pro sessions on it that I create on my Mac Pro, and it handles them really well. I ended up not upgrading the RAM due to the lack of "Man I wish this running faster" feeling.

[southernpaws]

Out of curiosity, did anyone else buy their Mac laptop fully expecting to upgrade the RAM, but then didn't because you were surprised by/satisfied with the speed?

::raises hand::

[aristotle]

As I mentioned before. Since that laptop in the commercial is running a 64bit OS, it will need all of those 4GB just to be able run most programs that you would normally only require 2GB because most applications are still 32bit and those 32bit applications tend to cause a things called memory fragmentation. I've experienced it with Visual studio.NET 2008 and I had to search the net for a wrapper tool that patches launches VS.NET 2008 with an in memory patch to fix that problem.

Essentially what will happen is your programs will start crashing saying that they are out of memory when there should be plenty available. The situation reminded me of the System 7/8/9 days when you had to allocate a portion of memory to an application.

Windows is terrible at memory management and it gets worse when you try to run 32bit applications on a 64bit windows because of how MSFT messed up Windows on Windows 64 (WOW64). WOW64 is a little bit like Classic which was the environment used to run OS 9 apps on OS X prior to Intel macs but not quite the same.

[madrag]

she said "firewire" he he!

[Eidorian]

she said "firewire" he he!Now if Apple only had it on the Aluminium Macbook.

[bournecain]

Is it me, or did everyone notice the wallpaper on the MB Pro. It had the Tiger's Wallpaper.

[Melrose]

::raises hand::

::raises hand::

[polaris20]

iLife ships on OS X discs too, as we are aware...

And iLife is as much as part of OS X as IE and WMP or WLM is to Windows... (and Windows also have their iLife counterparts... Windows Movie Maker, Windows Live Photo Gallery, Windows DVD maker, just to name a few..)

iLife ships on a separate disk than OS X. If you do a reinstall, you don't have to load it. The restore disks that something like an HP would come with reload all the junk on there again though, such as the Norton garbage, Office trial garbage, and tons of other unusable trialware that needs to come off.

Not to mention the other useless apps built into Windows, like the ones you mentioned. If Windows ever got to the point of a good Linux distro where you can pick and choose the apps you want installed, I'd be quite happy.

[hotrock3]

She is a filmmaker, well that sucks for her because I am a filmmaker and in the industry 90 percent of the software we use is Final cut pro.
prefer pc over a mac

First off, I am not arguing that a Windows better.

Even though FCP holds 90% market share, it is not better. Avid is far better if you have the money to spend. All the studios still use Avid but they run on Macs now unlike 10 years ago.

[pdxflint]

And the I'm A Mac ads don't perpetuate any windows myths? Of course they do. Companies do what they have to to sell a product. In this case MS is targeting people who won't realize these are myths and take them as fact. Just as in some of the I'm a Mac ads.

I think most people watching the I'm A Mac, and I'm A PC ads see humor and generalization in those little sketches - call it a form of satire, if you will. Who hasn't seen SNL, and had a bit of an idea that it was...well...hmmm, not exactly reality or pseudo-reality TV? I'm pretty sure the I'm A Mac ads are taking some creative liberties to make a point, and not really be that offensive. I think you'll have to agree that Hodgeman's PC character would probably win a popularity contest among viewers, and is portrayed as somewhat loveable, and endearing. He just has problems (the Windows myths you mentioned) which just happen to be extremely common for many people - thus they identify with him. That's the whole idea. Most of PC's complaints in the ads are pretty valid, actually, despite being generalized and acted out in some metaphorical manner to make the point. There's more truth than untruth. The myths... aren't really myths when it comes to Windows, are they? It would be kind of hard to perpetuate some myth about systems 90% of the viewers either use, or have used before, extensively. How do you perpetuate a myth to the actual users of Windows? They certainly would be able to dismiss them if they were blatantly BS, but instead they recognize them as true, thus the ads work. Lots of people switching to Macs because someone finally addressed the issues most of them were already having with their computers.

Contrast this to the Laptop Hunter MS ads, which actually try to imply some 'hard' truths about what you can and can't get with a certain $$ amount in the PC vs Mac story by framing it with the "what do you want in a laptop" question up front, then letting a non-Mac knowledgeable person define the qualities that would meet their needs. What a perfect set-up for perpetuating the old anti-Mac myths - let those who only know those 'myths' define the parameters, and then let Microsoft fulfill their wishes. The 'myths' that are used to dismiss Macs are simply ridiculous for the most part. The arguments against Mac (you can hardly call them that) are just thrown it to make it look like they really did consider alternatives to Windows laptops, when anyone who knows even a reasonable amount about Macs would have looked a bit harder - considered the end-user benefits vs. price up front - before ruling them out. There are some valid reasons to choose Windows over Mac. Problem is, Microsoft doesn't really address those issues because they aren't really consumer issues, but more corporate, IT issues. Microsoft knows the Macs are a compelling option, maybe even the best option for the home consumer and creative professional, so they absolutely will fan the flames of ignorance as long as they can... It's worked for them this far, so why stop now? :rolleyes:

Ironically, both the I'm A Mac ads and the Laptop Hunter ads are both targeting Windows users. The I'm A Mac ads attempt to educate and enlighten and de-myth the anti-Mac ignorance with humor, while the Laptop Hunter ads do just the opposite - they perpetuate continued ignorance, they attempt to perpetuate a myth. Good for them (Microsoft.) It's business after all. But you have to laugh at what it says about their technology and innovation when this is the business plan. Ironically, it makes them fairly easy to compete with on a technical and innovative level. And Apple's managing their plan very well. Apple doesn't really care if "Sheila, the filmmaker" buys an HP laptop. Somebody's got to make and sell the other 80% of the computers in the world, and they may as well sell them to Sheila and friends.

[Lestrange]

While I know this was an ad, done with actors, and heavily MS/PC biased, it is still a realistic scenario. So let's assume it's real...

Whatever field she works in, video, audio, design, etc, the simple fact is she's a student...and therefore probably doesn't have a lot of money or space. This would quite obviously rule out a desktop or other dedicated peripherals/entertainment devices such as dvd players and music players. Who can afford or has space for all of these on a student budget? I myself use a 15" laptop for everything from music, chatting, design, dvds, everything, because I can't afford to do otherwise.

Also, the fact that someone is a student probably means they are not going to use professional level hardware, unless they have the money, in which case they would probably have to settle for something lesser but still functional.

Asking for a 17" laptop for under a £1000 even (not dollars!) would be a reasonable request, however Apple just do not do this. I know, I want a Macbook Pro, as it is the only thing that would be adequate. (13" screens do NOT cut it for design work, and I don't have space for a hulking great desktop...and as for the iMac, if I want laptop grade parts in a machine, I'll buy a laptop thanks. =] ) I want to use the Mac OS because I have used it a lot and like it, but Apple's DREADFUL student discount in the UK (5% ?!?!) and vast over-pricing means they're forcing a lot of potential customers to go elsewhere. Sad but true. =[

[pdxflint]

While I know this was an ad, done with actors, and heavily MS/PC biased, it is still a realistic scenario. So let's assume it's real...

Whatever field she works in, video, audio, design, etc, the simple fact is she's a student...and therefore probably doesn't have a lot of money or space. This would quite obviously rule out a desktop or other dedicated peripherals/entertainment devices such as dvd players and music players. Who can afford or has space for all of these on a student budget? I myself use a 15" laptop for everything from music, chatting, design, dvds, everything, because I can't afford to do otherwise.

Also, the fact that someone is a student probably means they are not going to use professional level hardware, unless they have the money, in which case they would probably have to settle for something lesser but still functional.

Asking for a 17" laptop for under a £1000 even (not dollars!) would be a reasonable request, however Apple just do not do this. I know, I want a Macbook Pro, as it is the only thing that would be adequate. (13" screens do NOT cut it for design work, and I don't have space for a hulking great desktop...and as for the iMac, if I want laptop grade parts in a machine, I'll buy a laptop thanks. =] ) I want to use the Mac OS because I have used it a lot and like it, but Apple's DREADFUL student discount in the UK (5% ?!?!) and vast over-pricing means they're forcing a lot of potential customers to go elsewhere. Sad but true. =[

Not sure which ad you're referring to - going to assume the first one ($1000) where the girl wants 17" screen for less than $1000... sure. It's obvious. There's no choice but PC/Windows. The premise of the ad is an easy setup. Why go through all the BS? The thing not discussed was, why? What did 17" screen laptop provide to her on that budget, and what were the trade-offs? Probably no better display resolution than Apple's 13" screen offers, and tons of extra bulk and weight. Lousy graphics. Poor battery life. Old technology (at least 1 year old already.) And absolutely no "cool" factor, which has some obvious value to college students. Instead the ad ignores most of these issues (which ultimately do matter to most users,) except for the "cool" factor dig at Apple by saying since she couldn't afford a Macbook Pro 17", she wasn't "cool" enough to "go Apple." How ridiculous. It's easy to see how hard she tried to shoehorn herself into an Apple somehow... right? It's gotta be 17", and under $1000! No other display specs necessary, right? :rolleyes:

Sort of like saying I need a new car, and I need it to have 4 doors, a cd player, and auto transmission for under $12k. It won't be a BMW or Mercedes. It won't even be a Toyota or Honda. In fact it can only be some leftover last year's cheap Chevy or Kia hatchback. Let her go, Apple. Who cares. Some customers you can actually make money by doing business with, and some customers just aren't really worth the trouble. The good thing for Microsoft is that they get the same money for their OS regardless of how little profit margin is in the hardware manufacturer's 17" laptop for less than $1000. It's just another way for them to keep the MS tax going strong. Lay it on the hardware makers to figure out how to make money on ridiculously thin margins, which might explain why IBM got out of the business. Can't blame them at all.

[applecultvictim]

Oh my...my..my... where did they get this "artist" from the bottom of the barrel where they got that hp too?

I can't bare the idiocy of these ads, she goes in and says 2gb of memory is not good enough but asks if the graphics card is going to be good enough?????!????!!! When it comes to apple she knows 2gb is not good enough but in terms of graphics cards she is a computer illiterate...these adds surely aim at the lowest common denominator....

Btw, where might we see the work of this great "filmmaker" who ll be making films out of their craptastic laptop....

[madrag]

Now if Apple only had it on the Aluminium Macbook.

the pun I made was due to the fact that "firewire" is still an apple term; the rest of the world has to pay apple in order to use this term (I think), otherwise they call it its technical term: IEEE 1394

I thought it was funny that she said "firewire" :cool:

[bruinsrme]

Today I was pricing Dells. Yes they had a sizable selection of coputers for under $800 that would suit a good number of people for many years.

My wife's computer needs would be met on a 1Ghz P3 with XP. So she wants a laptop. Do I really need to spend more than $550 on a laptop for her, let alone over $1000 for her to check email, play card games, and occcassionally upload some pictures?

I really think Apple is providing a disservice to consumers for not givng them a laptop option for around $700, stock holders for targeting a new market sector that could yeild profits, and to themselves for pusing away customers.

Ipods and inexpensive macs golden combo.

[blackhand1001]

My works ASUS notebook has 2gigs running vista. It sits at jsut over 1gig of useage at startup.

I run multiple firefox, thunderbird, itunes, torrent application, digsby, flashget, skype, ie7 (gotta :( ), word etc... and it stays at a gig of useage.

My iMac sits at less useage on startup, but gets to about the gig mark with the apps going...

they seem pretty even to me

Finally someone that understands vistas memory management. It looks like it uses a lot of memory cause it prefetched the mostly used program based on the maount of memory it has total. If it starts to get low on memory it will dump the prefetches and allow the system to use it. Ever wonder why you no longer see that dreaded low on virtual memory message anymore.

[DaReal_Dionysus]

Okay this ad is just non-sense.

I work in the film/TV industry(Post Production) and can tell you a few things about a serious film making. I want to know what this idiot of a lady is going to edit those films on. Adobe Premiere? Ha what a laugh, if 2000 is the budget then she is screwed. There are only two real professional caliber editing programs for film on PC and thats Avid & Auto Smoke. Which are completely out of her price range. If this lady would have done her research then she could have bought the Mac and use Final Cut Studio and had everything she needed to do the job.

Microsoft is week i the production industry. Keep the phony film makers out the commercial.

[southernpaws]

I think most people watching the I'm A Mac, and I'm A PC ads see humor and generalization in those little sketches - call it a form of satire, if you will. Who hasn't seen SNL, and had a bit of an idea that it was...well...hmmm, not exactly reality or pseudo-reality TV? I'm pretty sure the I'm A Mac ads are taking some creative liberties to make a point, and not really be that offensive.

Ironically, both the I'm A Mac ads and the Laptop Hunter ads are both targeting Windows users. The I'm A Mac ads attempt to educate and enlighten and de-myth the anti-Mac ignorance with humor, while the Laptop Hunter ads do just the opposite - they perpetuate continued ignorance, they attempt to perpetuate a myth.

I like what you had to say. I never had an answer whenever anybody said the "I'm a Mac" ads were committing the same sins of the laptop hunters. that claim never sat right but i couldn't put into words why.

I think you basically got it. The I'm a Mac ads are attempting caricature. the laptop hunters are attempting documentary. Well said.

[Macmini1234]

on may 3 at 9:27 eastern time on fox there was a new one with a kid and his mom wanting a gaming computer for 1500.they picked the sony vaio they commented the mac 13.3 inch was too small but the had enough for a bigger mac ? btw mircosoft doesnt make hardware so they advertize sony and HP.:apple:Mac Mini ipod touch airport express apple tv macbook pro:apple:

[twoodcc]

i personally just do not like that hp line.

[blackhand1001]

Okay this ad is just non-sense.

I work in the film/TV industry(Post Production) and can tell you a few things about a serious film making. I want to know what this idiot of a lady is going to edit those films on. Adobe Premiere? Ha what a laugh, if 2000 is the budget then she is screwed. There are only two real professional caliber editing programs for film on PC and thats Avid & Auto Smoke. Which are completely out of her price range. If this lady would have done her research then she could have bought the Mac and use Final Cut Studio and had everything she needed to do the job.

Microsoft is week i the production industry. Keep the phony film makers out the commercial.
Umm, do you listen to yourself. Its a commerical. You sound like a complete snob. Its a fictional commercial. Its people like this that taint the Apple name for people who use their products but don't make their whole life dedicated to them. The sad thing is you tink your helping apple by posting stuff like this, but your just feeding the trolls and pushing away potential customers of Apple.

[Clark Gable]

iLife ships on a separate disk than OS X. If you do a reinstall, you don't have to load it. The restore disks that something like an HP would come with reload all the junk on there again though, such as the Norton garbage, Office trial garbage, and tons of other unusable trialware that needs to come off.

Not to mention the other useless apps built into Windows, like the ones you mentioned. If Windows ever got to the point of a good Linux distro where you can pick and choose the apps you want installed, I'd be quite happy.

that's what I tell people. Every mac comes with the "restore" discs that are just the complete osx and no other bloat whatsoever. none of that random aol trials, some random 3rd party antivirus trials and such.

[CanadianMac2008]

She is a filmmaker, well that sucks for her because I am a filmmaker and in the industry 90 percent of the software we use is Final cut pro.

If this ad was supposed to be geared toward filmmakers than in was a waste of money. Film editors and know about computers and they would never prefer pc over a mac

So true. I used to use a PC for video editing and quickly found out that if you want to be competitive, you use a Mac for film. It's what everybody else uses, very few use PC's. Also, I agree she can't be much of a filmmaker if she is considering a laptop as a serious machine for editing. For basic stuff, ie wedding videos, non-professional stuff it'll do the trick. Not for anything serious though, not really. You could do an offline edit on a laptop sure but not for your online.

Also, I agree with the point about OS X being more efficient. My XP computer bogs down like crazy on 1 GB and becomes way less efficient the older the install of the OS gets.

On my Macbook, 1 Gb runs Leopard perfectly. What's more, at the production company I used to work at, we had Tiger running on old old G4 PowerMacs, and it ran perfectly. We were authoring DVD reels and never had a crash in a year of work.

Windows is just a resource hog.

[applecultvictim]

Umm, do you listen to yourself. Its a commerical. You sound like a complete snob. Its a fictional commercial. Its people like this that taint the Apple name for people who use their products but don't make their whole life dedicated to them. The sad thing is you tink your helping apple by posting stuff like this, but your just feeding the trolls and pushing away potential customers of Apple.

Huh? It's supposed to be taken literally, she doesn't buy fictional laptops, the fact that she presents an entirely wrong and skewed reality is the issue here.

[Wikinerd]

Freeware is almost non-existant on a Mac as well. Aside from VLC, Perian, and Adium, what decent freeware is there?

Which reminds me...

Adium (As mentioned)
AppCleaner (free version of AppZapper)
AppFresh (update utility)
Audacity
Bowtie (Free iTunes controls)
Burn
Carbon Copy Cloner (Donationware—uncrippled shareware)
Cyberduck
Darwine
FileZilla
Fluidtunes (to play with. always fun to show off...)
Geektool (ofc)
(GIMP?)
Google whatnot
Jubler (Subtitles)
Keyboard cleaner (make your computer ignore any output until you press cmd-Q)
KisMAC
LiquidCD (Burning app)
Mercury Messenger
Microsoft Messenger
NetNewsWire
Omni whatnot (some Omni products are free...)
Onyx
Perian (as mentioned)
Quicksilver (that alone makes Mac OS X worth it...)
Stuffit Expander (free—no restrictions as long as you're decompressing)
Textwrangler (I use BBEdit but TextWrangler is sufficient)
Transmission (Torrent client)
Vidalia (Tor)
VLC (as mentioned)

PS. I left out all the browsers.
PPS. It's interesting... everytime I boot into Xp and I need to, say, find some software, crippleware (or shareware if you prefer) is everywhere while good quality freeware is hard to find (maybe because there's less "bad" freeware on macs to begin with—the bad ones don't get any support... while on the PC world "bad" freeware gets a little support anyway because of the sheer amount of people....)
PPS. For a more comprehensive list, try here (http://osx.iusethis.com/tag/free) or here (http://www.macupdate.com/search.php?qk=&modpreset=&mm=2003-01&mx=2009-05&title=&titlenot=&desc=&descnot=&rev=&revnot=&dev=&devnot=&license[]=Free&categories[]=Business&categories[]=Multimedia+%26+Design&categories[]=Development&categories[]=Education&categories[]=Home+%26+Personal&categories[]=Internet&categories[]=Utilities&categories[]=Drivers&categories[]=Games&categories[]=Dashboard&os=mac&rating=all&sort=score&pp=25) or here (http://www.appdonkey.com/) or here (http://macapper.com/2008/01/10/mac-os-x-freeware-list/) or here (http://www.applemacfreeware.com/) or here (http://www.thriftmac.com/) or here (http://www.opensourcemac.org/) or here (http://dbachrach.com/blog/2006/02/05/the-best-unknown-mac-apps-1/)(page 2 (http://dbachrach.com/blog/2006/02/12/the-best-unknown-mac-apps-2/), page 3 (http://dbachrach.com/blog/2007/02/20/the-best-unknown-mac-apps-3/)).

—OR—

Try this list (http://www.usingmac.com/2008/8/1/22-useful-lists-of-mac-applications) of other lists... (not all freeware though.)

Huh? It's supposed to be taken literally, she doesn't buy fictional laptops, the fact that she presents an entirely wrong and skewed reality is the issue here.

I sorta agree with applecultvictim here... Microsoft made the ad look the "bangbros" way.. like how they picked up a person off the street and asked them which laptop they want.. Which is partially true, they are real people, but this is prearranged... Which is misleading at the least or blatantly wrong...

[mmulin]

Mmm, just wondering. Is Vista actually capable of addressing 4GB in the 32bit version? I know XP wasn't.

[Wikinerd]

Mmm, just wondering. Is Vista actually capable of addressing 4GB in the 32bit version? I know XP wasn't.

Nope. It isn't.

Mac OS X "Leopard" 10.5 can, I think, but 10.5 itself is not fully 64bit... (but will be in June as of general consensus of speculation)

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000811.html


PS. hope this helps a bit: http://rd2.macnn.com/2008/06/17/myths-of-snow-leopard-2-32-bit-support/

PPS. And this: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/08/26/road-to-mac-os-x-106-snow-leopard-64-bits/

[mmulin]

Nope. It isn't.

Mac OS X "Leopard" 10.5 can, I think, but 10.5 itself is not fully 64bit...


Yes, some parts aren't yet in 64 but the OS has no problem managing 32GB +.

Well, I hope our aspiring movie editor does get thrown in 64bit Vista then ;)

[Wikinerd]

Yes, some parts aren't yet in 64 but the OS has no problem managing 32GB +.

Well, I hope our aspiring movie editor does get thrown in 64bit Vista then ;)

Well, the thing is, if she didn't, she gets the "real" Windows Experience.... :D

[hazza.jockel]

It's easy to see how hard she tried to shoehorn herself into an Apple somehow... right? It's gotta be 17", and under $1000! No other display specs necessary, right? :rolleyes:

This is what I was trying to get at. Most people don't care about the other aspects of the screen because they don't know about them. Using your car analogy, its like someone who wants to but a car with a 3L engine. The average consumer probably realizes that other factors can make a car more or less powerful then just its engine size but they don't know enough about it too care. Same screen size. For most people its the bigger the better. This is who this ad is pointed at.

Another point is that she never says what type of film maker she is. If i whip together some clips to put on youtube then technically I could call my self a film maker. Maybe thats all she wants to do in which case it doesn't need the industry standard film making software. What Microsoft is trying to do by pointing out she is an artist is too show people that whilst Macs are generally considered "creative" and windows is for "productivity" windows can also be used for creativity.

What people have got to remember is that this is an MS ad of course its not going to do a non-bias comparison between Macs and PCs.

[ibook4113]

so can anyone answer my question

"can you even hardsub ssa/ass/srt subtitles into an avi using OSX? It's a simple question"

if Macs were so good for video editing, surely it should be possible right, right??

Not really got that much to do with mac, mainly an avi problem.... if the software exists on windows then people will have to show there is a demand for it on mac. and then people can make the software

[ibook4113]

Nope. It isn't.

Mac OS X "Leopard" 10.5 can, I think, but 10.5 itself is not fully 64bit... (but will be in June as of general consensus of speculation)

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000811.html


PS. hope this helps a bit: http://rd2.macnn.com/2008/06/17/myths-of-snow-leopard-2-32-bit-support/

PPS. And this: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/08/26/road-to-mac-os-x-106-snow-leopard-64-bits/

I was always under the impression that mac had a different way of addressing ram that allowed for the use of 4GB.


It was talked about alot during the set by Appleinsider about snow leopard.
this one i thing http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/08/26/road_to_mac_os_x_10_6_snow_leopard_64_bits.html&page=1

[DMann]

Well, the thing is, if she didn't, she gets the "real" Windows Experience........... and genuine t'will be!

[champ01]

Saying you can't do video editing on a Laptop doesn't know what he or she is talking about

The newest macbook pro's or even the Macbook's are not that bad for editing

But to come back on the commercial here are things where you know she's just playing an act:

first 12 sec
- she needs a laptop with fast processor (all new laptops got that)
- a large screen (every brand has 17 inch laptops)
- cut video (using what program! on which resolution!)

12/27 sec
- Sales man says "this has a very fast processor" but not saying which one
- The girl says "macbook had only 2gb of ram" yeah it does so.... still much more capable of performing at video editing than a laptop with vista that has 4 or 6GB of RAM

27/39 sec
- She needs a big screen screen ow no wait she want a smaller one now
- Is this grafics card powerfull she asked? but she just implied that she knew what she was talking about when she was holding her shoulders up about the RAM part on a macbook! indeed WOW :D

40/till the end
- She want a wide screen, super fast (whatever that may mean), not to big (is she blind)
- the sales guy says "i'll be right back" she says YES but doesn't look him in the eyes "are all pc uses that arrogant?

for those $2000,- she should buy some bigger tits in stead because she has no clue at all what she wants or needs

[DMann]

Saying you can't do video editing on a Laptop doesn't know what he or she is talking about

The newest macbook pro's or even the Macbook's are not that bad for editing

But to come back on the commercial here are things where you know she's just playing an act:

first 12 sec
- she needs a laptop with fast processor (all new laptops got that)
- a large screen (every brand has 17 inch laptops)
- cut video (using what program! on which resolution!)

12/27 sec
- Sales man says "this has a very fast processor" but not saying which one
- The girl says "macbook had only 2gb of ram" yeah it does so.... still much more capable of performing at video editing than a laptop with vista that has 4 or 6GB of RAM

27/39 sec
- She needs a big screen screen ow no wait she want a smaller one now
- Is this grafics card powerfull she asked? but she just implied that she knew what she was talking about when she was holding her shoulders up about the RAM part on a macbook! indeed WOW :D

40/till the end
- She want a wide screen, super fast (whatever that may mean), not to big (is she blind)
- the sales guy says "i'll be right back" she says YES but doesn't look him in the eyes "are all pc uses that arrogant?

for those $2000,- she should buy some bigger tits in stead because she has no clue at all what she wants or needsSomeday, however rather unlikely, MS might discover that incongruencies and oversights as blatant as these are simply ineffective in selling any product, let alone Windows, which, for their own sake, was far better off not mentioned at all.

[Blunk]

Stop lying Microsoft... My girlfriend bought a HP notebook a year and a monht ago, just like I bough my MacBook Pro.
This week, her PC wroke! I mean... it wont turn up! she had a problem some months ago and they change the battery of the notebook but still the problem and now is even worse.

Dont think only on $$$ and specs. There is a whole difference under this machines, and the service included when you buy it.
By the way... both are same display size 13-inch. MBP is lighter and thinner than HP.

"You PC is wroken? You keep it"

[pdxflint]

on may 3 at 9:27 eastern time on fox there was a new one with a kid and his mom wanting a gaming computer for 1500.they picked the sony vaio they commented the mac 13.3 inch was too small but the had enough for a bigger mac ? btw mircosoft doesnt make hardware so they advertize sony and HP.:apple:Mac Mini ipod touch airport express apple tv macbook pro:apple:

Actually that ad is the third one, and has been out a couple of weeks now. It's even more ridiculous than the others. They want a gaming laptop...? For $1500? Just get the kid an XBox or PS3. And a white Macbook. He's eleven years old, he probably would really prefer the game console. Again, the "let's go check out the Macs" routine - same in every commercial - where lust is expressed, then the anti-Mac myth non-reality sets in, and Macs are dismissed fairly quickly as if they are just luxuries, not useful tools. In the one with the kid and his mom...she (right on script) suggests looking at the Macs, and he seems actually interested in a Mac (c'mon, he's a kid...sure he'd be interested in a Mac,) but then Mom tells him (paraphrasing here...) "Whoa... these are expensive, Dude." One cuts shows the kid playing with a white Macbook (<$1000) and saying, "these are kinda small..." and with enough prodding from Mom finally relents, and says, "Maybe we should go PC," while Mom gives him a ugly grimace-face, showing her approval of his decision to disapprove of the Mac idea... (I mean, get a load of her expression (eeeyyuuww...!) when the kid finally gives up on the idea of a Mac.... it's almost too obvious, yet is clearly scripted to send additional subliminal negative vibes out there to any ignorant viewer who may have been tempted to check out Macs someday. Eeeeyyuuww... yuckie Macs...oooohh, gross!) It's really silly. And actually, unwittingly funny.

The really funny thing is, anyone half aware of current technology will be more likely to have their positive impressions of Macs reinforced by these MS commercials. These commercials are all classics - and they'll not make any difference in the long run. It's just Microsoft preaching to the previously/formerly converted, trying to keep them from leaving the church. "Oh, there's evil out there in the world, my children <hint: Macs>. Ignore this temptation, and continue to do your penance in these 'walls.' We have fun things to do here, and will protect you from progressiveness which threatens the world we know."

[hazza.jockel]

Jeez. I'm not supporting MS or Mac here but you guys are just saying the ad is bad because it doesn't tell the whole truth about Mac vs MS.
What kind of ad would it be if it went like this:

"This is the only Mac for under $2000 and its only got 2gb of ram but Mac osx is soo much better then MS so i think ill go the mac"
"She is a Mac"

or

"I want a gaming laptop under $1500. Man these laptops are expensive" :looks at a Mac: "and MS laptops always "wroke?!?" so i wont get that i'll get a PS# instead."
"He is a PS3"

Seriously guys these are MS ads, of course they are going to portray PC as better then Macs

[mmulin]

I was always under the impression that mac had a different way of addressing ram that allowed for the use of 4GB.


It was talked about alot during the set by Appleinsider about snow leopard.
this one i thing http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/08/26/road_to_mac_os_x_10_6_snow_leopard_64_bits.html&page=1

Your link doesn't work but nevertheless Leopard is addressing 64bit and, special ways or not, it simply allows to address much more than 4GB.

[Sesshi]

Okay this ad is just non-sense.

I work in the film/TV industry(Post Production) and can tell you a few things about a serious film making. I want to know what this idiot of a lady is going to edit those films on. Adobe Premiere? Ha what a laugh, if 2000 is the budget then she is screwed. There are only two real professional caliber editing programs for film on PC and thats Avid & Auto Smoke. Which are completely out of her price range. If this lady would have done her research then she could have bought the Mac and use Final Cut Studio and had everything she needed to do the job.

Microsoft is week i the production industry. Keep the phony film makers out the commercial.

Actually, there's Vegas Pro and associated paraphenalia which, although different, is just as capable as FCS in a variety of so-called professional applications. This is even if we were to take the MS advertising - which has so far had more factual holes than you can drive an Apple Store through - at face value, which is something you obviously shouldn't do in term of any form of advertising.

Which makes the fawning over the, if anything even less factually inclusive, Apple ads by almost everyone on this board rather 'pat on the head' pathetic, but never mind.

Anyone with a reasonable sense of art direction can edit video competently on either package. It's what else you can do that sets you apart IMO - and for a complete workflow for a singleton producer reliant on one platform for all of his/her needs, one could argue that Windows is actually more versatile due to more tools being available for all elements of design and associated niches, although FCS has some extremely compelling modules for making footage look their best as well.

Vegas is what I use in preference to FCS most of the time, although I have a few licenses floating around.

And while the Mac does have the ability to run Windows the EFI emulation + drivers isn't even as solid in comparison to even consumer Windows machines, let alone actually Pro-use hardware of the likes of HP Elitebooks, Dell Precisions, etc.

Of course, my preference doesn't take into account the sharing of projects - which I fully acknowledge is a factor for many professionals, and why I have FCS-capable / dedicated Pros lying around - but if you're a singleton and essentially self-contained to producing end-user footage, this isn't necessarily a big deal-breaker.

If you're happy with the same consumer-grade / basic-business hardware as Apple's 'Pro' offerings, the cost of a top-configured Dell XPS 16 or an HP DV 16, both with uplifted warranties and/or accidental damage insurance + Vegas + a few extensions = considerably less than MBP17 + FCS. The truth is that there's very little you need to do on a Mac these days in terms of media, even if you're looking for the best - or comparably the best - working experience. It's just that many people prefer to stick to what they know once they've learned it because they're not mentally agile, or their enterprise is already invested in a platform.

[Cara1001]

She is a filmmaker, well that sucks for her because I am a filmmaker and in the industry 90 percent of the software we use is Final cut pro.

If this ad was supposed to be geared toward filmmakers than in was a waste of money. Film editors and know about computers and they would never prefer pc over a mac

I'm a film maker too - and have worked for some of the most well known production houses on both documentary films and entertainment focussed formats.

If I'm making films for myself/youTube - or something quick turnaround where quality and adhering to broadcast standards aren't all that important I use FCP...

I'm definitely a Mac person - but I have to dissagree that macs are the standard in the film/TV production world. This just isn't true. Their has been a big shift towards FCP in recent years, but it still makes up a small fraction of the pro film/TV/post market share.

Almost everywhere I have worked they have used Avid suites (PC based, usually specialist high end HP rigs with dedicated video subsystems), with the exception of the higher end post houses which have always (and still do) used Discreet systems (Unix/Linux based) with Smoke, Flame or even Inferno.

The reasons why pro's DONT use Macs when it comes to broadcast film and video are as follows:

a) Cost - no two ways about it, a mac setup costs more. A hell of a lot more than you'd even think when you factor in the fact that dedicated video capture cards, network storage solutions and

b) Training - even if FCP were (and some argue it is) better than Avid / Flame - there just aren't enough certified editors out there who have been trained up to pro standard. If I need an editor at short notice to finish a piece going to broadcast the following day, I want to be told the agency don't have an available editor to do the job.

c) Editors don't like FCP - I know this might draw a lot of shouts, but having worked with literally hundreds of editors in the past ten years, I can't remember one that has ever sung the praises of FCP over Avid or Flame. Maybe it's because it's not what they know - but either-way, it's still a problem.

d) Cost. Did I mention that already? Macs ARE over priced. I don't mind paying more to own a sexy looking laptop - it's a fashion accessory too. But for a post production department building up 5 or 6 edit suites, all those premiums for a sexy machine soon add up into the tens of thousands and believe me, I don't care what the machine I edit on looks like as long as it gets the job done. I'd rather spend the extra 10k on extra storage, or upgrading the processors, video boards etc to make my life easier in the edit!


Did the woman in the ad make the right choice? Well, I'd sooner have the Mac. One thing I can say about Mac is that it's just more reliable (once you have it replaced 4 times because of Apples total lack of quality control). The Mac I have now I've had for almost 4 years and it runs just as fast as the day I bought it. In the same time frame I've been through 4 PC's and each has ground to a halt after a year or so requiring me to go out and buy the latest to get similar performance.

But the fact she chose a PC is pretty irrelevant because home editing which FCP is great for is a different beast to pro editing for broadcast.

[mike1450]

The comments on the video tell all: WHO uses a laptop for video editing? Kind of says what quality work she does if that's what's she's looking for..

..I can't imagine some video geek from Pixar or Dream Works walking into Best Buy going "Okay, so I need this laptop... I'm a video editor..."

This might have been already covered... but MOST modern video editors use a laptop at LEAST some of time... Pixar and Dreamworks (animation?) aren't editing live action... I'm a pro, and I don't know one editor under 55 who doesn't have a macbook pro with final cut...

Sorry if someone's already covered this...

[chadwik]

I really think that PC Hunter commercials are all garbage. They are misleading and don't really address what Microsoft sells... software.

[DMann]

I really think that PC Hunter commercials are all garbage. They are misleading and don't really address what Microsoft sells... software.Yet, this seems to be the only viable option for MS - distract consumers from the Vista debacle by advertising something else - merchandise which, quite indirectly, benefits them.

[mike1450]

a) Cost - no two ways about it, a mac setup costs more. A hell of a lot more than you'd even think when you factor in the fact that dedicated video capture cards, network storage solutions and


you're right about editors liking AVID better if they're used to it, but sorry, while the PCs may be cheaper to run it, a proper AVID setup is many times as much as an MAC + FCP... like about 10 grand for a broadcast setup... that's about the same as a RAIDED MAC, cards, monitor, and FCP... THere's a reason people are switching slowly away from AVID...

[hazza.jockel]

I really think that PC Hunter commercials are all garbage. They are misleading and don't really address what Microsoft sells... software.

Hmmm.... This ad is selling the software. How many people go and buy a laptop with no operating system on it and then go and buy Vista or XP or OSX or what ever? Probably none. So by advertising hardware that comes with windows they are advertising their software. They get a cut from every computer sold with their operating system.

But I kinda see what you mean if you are referring to the fact that the software is not what is used to sway the person towards a PC. Maybe MS just realizes that everyone already knows the ups and downs of windows and doesn't feel the need to reinforce it?

[Goona]

No they don't want to mention Vista because they know what piece of crap it is.

[josgraha]

Okay i'm taking this right where it needs to go. Could they find an uglier chick seriously? She's not even evening (ala stripper) hot and I don't care if she had a level 80 healer with a 500 gear score there's no way i'm gettin' down with this beeosh in WoW after I know wot that looks like. Know wot i'm sayin' here? Is she supposed to represent WoW hot like WTF is this all about? I've seen some of the cuties playing MMOs now and they would easily get a daytime 6 but this hag is soo hurting. This is TV microsoft, holy crap kick it up a notch.

[DMann]

No they don't want to mention Vista because they know what piece of crap it is.So, very true.

[HasanDaddy]

.....does Sheila realize that she's gonna have to spend about $3,000 to put AVID editing software on that machine?

And probably another $2,000 for Pro Tools if she wants to sound design?

I guess she could go with Adobe Premiere Pro, but that's a good $1500 or so, as well --- better off with a MBP and Final Cut Express....

[Everlast]

So, the next MS laptop hunter ad will be targeting on Audio Editing(cut)? It's getting much more Interesting.. ;)

I remember some of my friends they use windows PC for audio editing for their band's songs, but every time when they tries to import a new plug-in, the windows will crash, shows it doesn't like it, they had to spent a long time to fix it and get back to their work. While the other band that I knew had use Logic on Mac had done what they want and gone to the bar already.

[AlexisV]

People probably reading too much into this.

PC = does the job
Mac = 'only' has 2 gigs of RAM

Doesn't really say anything more. 2 gigs is plenty, and they don't actually mention how much RAM the PC has. Who cares though.

It's funny how they linger on the MacBook. It looks way nicer than the others.

[neiltc13]

What I find funny is that this is the same forum where people are constantly telling others to upgrade to 4GB RAM or more, usually unnecessarily. Now that Microsoft is agreeing with you, you change your minds? :rolleyes:

[JoshFabean]

The comments on the video tell all: WHO uses a laptop for video editing? Kind of says what quality work she does if that's what's she's looking for..

..I can't imagine some video geek from Pixar or Dream Works walking into Best Buy going "Okay, so I need this laptop... I'm a video editor..."

ya I'm a film maker. I do use a laptop but it's a top of the line macbook pro. You simply cannot edit HD video on something that's not a macbook pro, from my experience.

these commercials bother me b/c you can tell these people know nothing about computers at all. I'm not saying people should only buy mac but they're buying laptops knowing nothing about them

[odedia]

So, the next MS laptop hunter ad will be targeting on Audio Editing(cut)? It's getting much more Interesting.. ;)

I remember some of my friends they use windows PC for audio editing for their band's songs, but every time when they tries to import a new plug-in, the windows will crash, shows it doesn't like it, they had to spent a long time to fix it and get back to their work. While the other band that I knew had use Logic on Mac had done what they want and gone to the bar already.

They actually might loose that one... I keep hearing Leo Laporte on "Macbreak Weekly" saying how he can't record his show on a mac because he needs to use Adobe Encore which isn't available on the Mac.

[Sesshi]

What I find funny is that this is the same forum where people are constantly telling others to upgrade to 4GB RAM or more, usually unnecessarily. Now that Microsoft is agreeing with you, you change your minds? :rolleyes:

What do you expect from a certain body of people who ultimately, when everything is said and done, basically prefers a platform because it better panders to their ignorance and ego simultaneously? And it's ignorance as in a fairly simple inability to apply real-life common sense to computing aspects. Not every Switcher or lifelong Mac adopter obviously, but when you review the reasons why many say they like 'Macs' better, it really does boil down to that in a surprisingly large percentage of situations.

If you're genuinely looking at a truly comparable comparison with an objective eye, the case for superiority is far better presented at the programmer level than anywhere else - where it comes down to minor differences at most. At the application development level is, I think, where OS X's relative coherence of vision comes really together. However, does that translate to significantly better programs? Interestingly, not in the majority of cases.

[hayesk]

Okay i'm taking this right where it needs to go. Could they find an uglier chick seriously? She's not even evening (ala stripper) hot and I don't care if she had a level 80 healer with a 500 gear score there's no way i'm gettin' down with this beeosh in WoW after I know wot that looks like. Know wot i'm sayin' here? Is she supposed to represent WoW hot like WTF is this all about? I've seen some of the cuties playing MMOs now and they would easily get a daytime 6 but this hag is soo hurting. This is TV microsoft, holy crap kick it up a notch.

What is wrong with you?

[primelight]

As Video editors using a laptop, it is very rare to find someone using a PC for video editing. Apple's Final Cut Pro which is only Mac has a VERY large presence. If she is going to share her projects with other editors, she is going to have quite a difficult time not using MAC. Also, that line about 2 GB of RAM is funny, since unless she is doing heavy effects editing and graphics, that is fine as far as RAM. That ad is laughable. They should really stick to their strengths, not try to compete in video imaging as far as PC.

[Wikinerd]

What I find funny is that this is the same forum where people are constantly telling others to upgrade to 4GB RAM or more, usually unnecessarily. Now that Microsoft is agreeing with you, you change your minds? :rolleyes:

Yes, you would need 4GB of RAM in Vista. OS X runs fine in 2GB—I, for one, am running OS X on my MacBook, late 2007, 2.2GHz.

And yes, 4GB of RAM is unnecessary if you're just using it for internet browsing, word processing, etc. Heck, I can run 4 Adobe CS4 Master Collection without visible lag... (Vista is an entirely different story)


But ultimately, no. 2GB RAM is usually not sufficient for decent movie editing, regardless of operating system... Doing so would not be exhibiting technical intelligence...

They actually might loose that one... I keep hearing Leo Laporte on "Macbreak Weekly" saying how he can't record his show on a mac because he needs to use Adobe Encore which isn't available on the Mac.

I find that rather funny... I am running that right now... (available in Production Prem. and Master Collection like so in Windows...)

[boonme]

The only thing she is going to be cutting on that PC is ******.

[ruskiwi]

She is a filmmaker, well that sucks for her because I am a filmmaker and in the industry 90 percent of the software we use is Final cut pro.

She's not a filmaker, she's an actress. :eek:

[seanm9]

...
The 3rd ad works, pointing 2 excellent points, blu-ray and games....


the 3rd add fails because when i think blu-ray and games i think PS3. For half of what they paid for the Sony laptop they could have got the PS3 and a **** load of games and movies... so how did they save money? and wouldn't you love to see them get paid by MS to not buy and X-Box 360?

[Chwisch87]

No they don't want to mention Vista because they know what piece of crap it is.

Vista after SP1 is really not a bad OS.

I just installed the Win 7 RC today and wow ... just wow. I thought the beta was really nice and many said the beta could be released today because of how stable it was. The RC has a level of polish that is just great.

I gotta say guys, Unless Snow Leopard does something absolutely amazing, Windows will become my primary day to day OS. I am currently buying an i7 rig (which is just gonna stupid fast lol). So after that is built i will have my macbook pro and the custom built i7 windows machine. Finally i will have a proper desktop again.

However more to my point. Windows 7 will launch in a few months more than likely (the RC works until next year for breathing room for Microsoft unless something disastrous happens I suppose.) I installed the RC today with no problems what so ever and any and all programs works perfectly. The reviews for the OS are consistently positive.

Much like 95 was a game changer, windows 7 has the potential to stop any Apple advance into market in its tracks. Microsoft is already working with PC builders to get PC laptops up to spec with Mac machines (battery life, screen resolution). The OS is no longer then whipping boy and battle cry for apple.

Let me put it this way ... there are a lot of traditional PC users out there like me who in the last few years got apple computers because we wanted to use OSX for our day to day computing. Windows 7 does everything just as good if not better than OS-X and has the potential to bring a lot of people that switch to make back into the windows fold for day to day use. The paradigm of windows at the office - mac at the home will likely be change.

[Prompey]

That on top of the sticker price you need to buy more third party hardware to make your Mac's hardware up to par with a Windows machine?

I'm not even going to bring up how many times I've linked to Apple's support documentation on Activity Monitor.

So are you only going to try and forget all the extra add-ons you need for your amazing windows setup! Anti-virus, office software that is incredibly overpriced, (whoa, a year went bye, better get some more anti-virus software) don't forget to have somebody install it for you! Cause if you're buying a windows computer again, you obviously don't know anything about computers, so...

[Prompey]

What I find funny is that this is the same forum where people are constantly telling others to upgrade to 4GB RAM or more, usually unnecessarily. Now that Microsoft is agreeing with you, you change your minds? :rolleyes:
it's not always unnecessary, but sometimes yes! i think it's frustrating when you say it like that because of the way it's presented! they take a person who obviously knows nothing about computers and tries to make them sound knowledgeable! 2nd they attempt to cover up the fact that windows needs all types of "after the fact" software (ex. anti-virus, office [minimum of $150] services to do the install and configuration for anti-virus!! that seems to seal the deal on the entire idea!
apple commercials don't try to shy away from the fact they are expensive but, microsoft doesn't include the software costs and such to get the computer to effectively last!

[DMann]

As Video editors using a laptop, it is very rare to find someone using a PC for video editing. Apple's Final Cut Pro which is only Mac has a VERY large presence. If she is going to share her projects with other editors, she is going to have quite a difficult time not using MAC. Also, that line about 2 GB of RAM is funny, since unless she is doing heavy effects editing and graphics, that is fine as far as RAM. That ad is laughable. They should really stick to their strengths, not try to compete in video imaging as far as PC.Laughable indeed - funny how editing software was neither mentioned nor hinted at during this ad. MBP and FCP would have been the optimal choice for anyone attempting to edit/process/render media on a laptop, and 2G RAM is more than sufficient to do so.

[sal]

I'm making the assumption that if Sheila is dumb enough to use a laptop for video editing she doesn't realize the HP won't run Final Cut..
but she can run avid(the majority of hollywood films are edited on an avid). or she could run cs4 production suite.

In this commercial they should have shown her authoring a bluray disc using encore. That would have really upset FCP users :eek:

FCP right now is not something mac users should be braggin about.
FCStudio 3 better make things good again and it better be released soon.

[DMann]

but she can run avid(the majority of hollywood films are edited on an avid). or she could run cs4 production suite.

In this commercial they should have shown her authoring a bluray disc using encore. That would have really upset FCP users :eek:

FCP right now is not something mac users should be braggin about.
FCStudio 3 better make things good again and it better be released soon.True, the majority of Hollywood releases are edited with Avid suites. However, this is usually done via high end Avid workstations, not laptops. I use Avid Xpress Pro, Media Composer and FCS on my MBP. However, I've had lots of problems using external storage with Xpress Pro in conjuction with laptops, generally, as Xpress Pro doesn't function well when the same fire-wire card handles two devices (a deck/camcorder and an external fire-wire drive, for instance). I find FCS much more functional on a laptop, and files can be easily transfered via Avid codecs from FCS to Avid, and vice versa, or easily recaptured using FCS. Also, sharing and transferring files, while shooting, with other editors, happens to be much easier, since the majority of them are using Macs with FCS. Furthermore, I am looking forward to FCS3 as well.

[jonbrackett]

uh...i need ram. derrrrr. or i can get a macbook, upgrade the ram for like 60 bucks. and replace the HD for 100. and then i'd have a blazin fast mac with something that windows doesn't have - FINAL CUT FREAKING PRO!!!

[philips]

There's still a small nag in the back of my mind that you started off talking about the compositing window managers though.

I'm not sure what the guy meant and how composition handling relates to memory consumption.

From my experience as Windows developer, main problem in Windows is its file system. But not even the file system itself, but all those silly DOS bogosities NTFS implements even now. For better BC they say. That's the first point. Second is internal resource management. Originating from WinNT, adopted from Win3.x, Windows still uses pretty archaic system how most of the resources are organized internally and how they have to be accessed for programs to be efficient. The two points combined (plus M$ inability - for more than a decade(!) now - to improve all the crap) lead to the effect that Windows has to cache like hell all possible types of information (e.g. graphics or localization) for applications to be any efficient, real-time (a prerequisite for smooth visual effects) and not cause any conflicts with other applications.

Mac OS X with aging HFS+ on normal, end-user workloads beats crap out of Windows with modern (but fragmenting like hell) NTFS. And M$ found no better solution other than to loosen the memory consumption requirements (in times of Win2K development) for its OS as a way to improve performance.

In the end, it is quite simple fact: Mac OS X development is much better managed and organized than that of Windows. (What was actually confirmed many times by insiders/msofties on the mini-msft blog: Windows business unit is quite far from the top of unofficial MS business units list where it is good to be an employee.)

[philips]

Unlike Windows apps, OS X apps do not install DLLs in shared folders scattered randomly throughout the OSCan you elaborate?

Mac OS X software deployment guide (or whatever it is called - touched Xcode last time in 10.3 times) pretty much clearly defines what and where can be and should be installed. Mac OS X applications, when you first run them might install into system directory libraries - but only libraries which are coming from Apple itself. So that Mac OS X SU can take care of them. For the proprietary libraries, they should be located inside of application bundle. Plus, unlike Windows, Mac OS X allows several versions of the same system library to be installed.

Windows doesn't have any kind of guidelines of the sort. Even more, for some fancy functions to work, libraries *must* be installed into %windir% or %windir%\system32. (Classical example: global keyboard shortcuts.) And due to the bogosities of internal Windows organization, during deinstall, the library might not be removed - forcing good uninstaller to prompt for restart or making bad uninstaller to fail to remove it.

"DLL Hell" solution (so called "dllcache") was triggered by two different problems. First is that M$ often provides different versions of same library in different development products. Worst part: library's internal version info is quite often simply wrong. You install one piece of software and it works. You install second - it works. But first broke. You reinstall first app - it works, but second doesn't. Second problem is even sillier. Say you have two applications - both are shipped with two different libraries which happen to have same name. After you start first application (and library would be loaded into memory), second application would fail to start, because older Windows would look up the library by its name, find a (wrong) copy loaded in memory and try to use it for second application. WinXP sort of solved both problems allowing applications to finally have their own private libraries - by again inflating memory consumption since some standard libraries are not shared among running applications anymore.

[josgraha]

What is wrong with you?

Sorry too much Barrens Chat, Adam Carolla podcast, and posting to the Fox News forums (my bad).

[neological]

She is a filmmaker, well that sucks for her because I am a filmmaker and in the industry 90 percent of the software we use is Final cut pro.

If this ad was supposed to be geared toward filmmakers than in was a waste of money. Film editors and know about computers and they would never prefer pc over a mac


I am a filmmaker. I teach film. No matter how much you like Macs this is a really ignorant comment. Avid still is by far the most commonly used application for film editing.

I use Avid on PCs because they are cheaper to build. G5s are not cost competitive, that's the major reason I do not use them for film editing. Let me also point out that I grew up building computers for a government firm starting at the age of 13. I know hardware pretty well. I do not by computers by television advertising nor by case material. I don't give a crap if it's plastic. (Clever try at a fake commercial but aren't iBooks plastic?)

Anyone who plays the "filmmakers/photographers all use Macs" card has obviously not spent a lot of time in the business. Many people use them, many do not. It is not a "win" in the Mac column.

And in response to the person earlier lots of people have laptops for editing film. It's called offline editing.

.....does Sheila realize that she's gonna have to spend about $3,000 to put AVID editing software on that machine?

And probably another $2,000 for Pro Tools if she wants to sound design?

I guess she could go with Adobe Premiere Pro, but that's a good $1500 or so, as well --- better off with a MBP and Final Cut Express....

They do make Avid Xpress. Sony also sells a suite (vegas, acid) which is competitively priced. It's hard to believe you have never heard of these programs so it seems your argument depends on omission. Avid media composer also sells for 1/3rd less than your figure. Final Cut Studio isn't free or anything, it's 1.3k and final cut express does not come with any audio editing or motion graphics programs. it's just final cut express and that's it.

[sk00]

Although it's sort of off-topic, most feature films are made using Avid.

From an Avid press release: "All of the nominated and award-winning films in the Best Motion Picture, Directing, Film Editing, Sound Editing, Sound Mixing, Visual Effects, Documentary Feature and Original Score categories at the 80th Annual Academy Awards® were created using at least one Avid®, Digidesign®, Sibelius® or Softimage® system." (note that all those companies are owned by Avid)

No, it's just that nearly every feature film is sound designed using ProTools (a digidesign program), so Avid gets to say that one of their products was used. It's not really the Avid line itself in many cases. High end film video editing is a fairly even split between FCP and Avid, though Avid may have the edge, but 95% of all indies are edited on FCP, as FCP is the standard in top film schools (including my own), where many Indie filmmakers have attended. That being said, even the half dozen Avid machines they have are 24" iMacs.

Where Are You Getting This Figure ?
I Am A Religious Mac Fan, But I'd Say About 25% Of "Our" Industry Use Final Cut, About 23% Use Adobe Premier But the Overwhelming Majority Use Avid Systems

Only because I don't want people to get wrong information, 90% of the film industry uses AVID editing systems, at least, in Hollywood they do.

Yeah, um, no. I live in Los Angeles, and the only Avid software I've ever seen anyone own for filmmaking is ProTools, excluding one guy that has Media Composer so that he can convert files to work in FCP. Avid for the independent filmmaker is on its way out, as the Xpress version is barely usable. But even if it was the better software line, it's still most commonly used on Macs. Most PC editors choose Adobe.


BTW, Anyone else notice that MSFT is only comparing the laptop line?

[discostu668]

wow, what an awful commercial.

i can't even begin to go on about how much is wrong with it.

[Zieg3rman]

She had to go walking past a BMW M6...dream car! This add works for most people because they will believe what they hear online. It only has 2gb of ram. Well I guess that means it's bad right? Anyone? She seems like a hardcore video editor, getting a laptop and all. Because I just love editing video while riding public transit...

[DMann]

No, it's just that nearly every feature film is sound designed using ProTools (a digidesign program), so Avid gets to say that one of their products was used. It's not really the Avid line itself in many cases. High end film video editing is a fairly even split between FCP and Avid, though Avid may have the edge, but 95% of all indies are edited on FCP, as FCP is the standard in top film schools (including my own), where many Indie filmmakers have attended. That being said, even the half dozen Avid machines they have are 24" iMacs.

Yeah, um, no. I live in Los Angeles, and the only Avid software I've ever seen anyone own for filmmaking is ProTools, excluding one guy that has Media Composer so that he can convert files to work in FCP. Avid for the independent filmmaker is on its way out, as the Xpress version is barely usable. But even if it was the better software line, it's still most commonly used on Macs. Most PC editors choose Adobe.Tell me about it. Xpress Pro has serious problems on a laptop, especially while using two FW devices simultaneously, i.e. camera/deck and external HD. FCS is far more stable, versatile, has a much cleaner interface, feels more responsive, and is less convoluted than either Avid's or Adobe's solutions. Also, OS X handles large files and performs memory management better than does Windows. For those who need to, or choose to, stay with their PC's, Avid and Adobe seem to offer reasonable, albeit traditional, solutions. For those who do have Macs, FCS is optimal.

[Wikinerd]

I use Avid on PCs because they are cheaper to build. G5s are not cost competitive, that's the major reason I do not use them for film editing. Let me also point out that I grew up building computers for a government firm starting at the age of 13. I know hardware pretty well. I do not by computers by television advertising nor by case material. I don't give a crap if it's plastic. (Clever try at a fake commercial but aren't iBooks plastic?)
I LOL'd at this. Where were you for the last 3—wait; 4 years? (G5s? iBooks?)

@ plastic. Plastic's out. That trend is long over. Manufacturers have hit the limit by painting plastic with textures that they're not and will never be—using plastic with silver paint only makes products look cheap. Anyone with a hint of design should know that you should use materials for their true textures, not for textures that are for an entirely different product.

As for why the iBook was plastic, and how plastic can be good in design, try reading this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Ive#Design_motifs
(Clever try at a fake commercial but aren't iBooks plastic?)

Excuse me? So now you're saying that ad was made by Apple? (as per your iBook reference)

—so you are simply "assuming" that the ad was made by Apple and thus label it as "fake"?
On Digg, we have an acronym dedicated for people who do this: RTFA.

-----------

As for your wall o' text about Avid, please. Just read the thread about people's opinion. For example, the post above this one. Just because you think that Avid is better doesn't mean it IS better; personal preference, mate.

[goodwilldrums]

What does she expect to edit on?? Movie Maker???

[DMann]

What does she expect to edit on?? Movie Maker???FYI, Movie Maker was used to edit 5 of the Academy Award winning films (Youtube division) of 2009.

[pdxflint]

(Clever try at a fake commercial but aren't iBooks plastic?)


iBooks have been discontinued for several years... but yes, they are plastic. Now the only plastic Mac laptop is the held-over upgraded low-end Macbook.

[phillipduran]

I really hate when they throw tech jargin into commercials in order to impress people.

The amount of included RAM is really a deciding factor for someone who is supposedly mildy tech savvy? Really?

4 gigs of RAM for the Macbook is $45. It should be not be an issue AT ALL when dropping $1500+ on a comp.

$45 RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146724 ($40.99 after rebate)

[brop52]

4 gigs of RAM for the Macbook is $45. It should be not be an issue AT ALL when dropping $1500+ on a comp.

$45 RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146724 ($40.99 after rebate)

Wrong RAM. Not DDR2. It's about $58 for the correct DDR3.

[Melrose]

I LOL'd at this. Where were you for the last 3—wait; 4 years? (G5s? iBooks?)


I caught that too. :D Kind of takes the wind out of the sails..

[DMann]

I caught that too. :D Kind of takes the wind out of the sails..Especially since they're now, quite cost competitive.

[iMaggot]

The "Video Card" part made me LOL so hard.

[neiltc13]

The "Video Card" part made me LOL so hard.

It's the same card as is in your MacBook Pro, except she got it for a lot less money.

[Wikinerd]

Especially since they're now, quite cost competitive.

Actually, I think one PowerMac G5 tower that is in a decent state might cost more than a Mac Pro— you might like to take a look in the antique section of eBay:D...

(not meant to insult Power Mac users, this is just an exaggeration and joke; but on a serious note, G5s are 4 years ago. Time to move on.)

---------------------

As for the thread, allow me to dig out this figure in favour of Final Cut—
http://tvbeurope.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1269&Itemid=46
According to research specialist SCRI, in 2007 Apple took 49% of the US professional editing marketing with Avid trailing on just 22%.

As well as these attributes of Final Cut Pro that may make it appealing:
http://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/avid-vs-fcp-–-market-dominance/
Final Cut Pro is often said to be an 80/20 solution – 80% of the features (of a system like Avid, in theory) at 20% of the cost.
(Actual percentages irrelevant—"80/20" is a nickname of the Pareto Principle, which correctly applies here.)
Another way to look at it is found in blogger Robert Cringely’s “The Five Percent Solution”. His premise is that a new product only has to be 5% better than the previous product in order to replace it in the minds and hearts of users. According to Cringley, a 5% improvement is good enough to force that shift. Of course, most Avid loyalists will argue that Avid is clearly better than FCP, but I’ve used both for years at this point and I don’t agree. Avid’s strong points are the robustness of media management, very responsive editing dynamics and advanced performance. Final Cut’s strengths are its easy timeline editing functions, the ability to mix many media types due to the QuickTime architecture and the embrace of third party hardware. You can certainly tally even more points on each side, but the value any of these has to your personal editing style and system demands is going to vary with every editor.




And for the people saying that it's not really used by hollywood and "top" professionals, just take a look at this page:
http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/action/
(The fact that these are posted there means that they're used by these companies/production crews)

[Wikinerd]

It's the same card as is in your MacBook Pro, except she got it for a lot less money.

Please, understand what he is talking about before you reply.

He's referring to a dialogue in the ad:

“Is this graphics card going to be powerful?”
“Mmhm.”
"Wow..."


Why are you so antagonistic anyway?


Wrong RAM. Not DDR2. It's about $58 for the correct DDR3.
Not that much of a difference when you're shelling out $1500.

[DMann]

It's the same card as is in your MacBook Pro, except she got it for a lot less money.However, she'll pay a lot more in the form of downtime due to large file transfer errors, constantly needing to close other running apps due to Windows memory management, and purchasing editing software capable of handling film editing, Windows Movie Maker notwithstanding. (iMovie, which is essentially as functional as Final Cut Express, is more than capable of HD editing and compositing student film projects, and is included with OS X at no additional cost)

[neiltc13]

Please, understand what he is talking about before you reply.

He's referring to a dialogue in the ad:

“Is this graphics card going to be powerful?”
“Mmhm.”
"Wow..."

Do you really expect them to go into detail in a TV ad?

However, she'll pay a lot more in the form of downtime due to large file transfer errors, constantly needing to close other running apps due to Windows memory management, and purchasing editing software capable of handling film editing, Windows Movie Maker notwithstanding. (iMovie, which is essentially as functional as Final Cut Express, is more than capable of HD editing and compositing student film projects, and is included with OS X at no additional cost)

At least she won't have to stare at a spinning beach ball all the time.

[krye]

Microsoft are a bunch of idiots. Sorry, but that $2000 MacBook Pro blows that $2000 POS HP out of the water. And the fact that the 2G of RAM was a deal-breaker just goes to show that you think your users are a bunch of idiots. You can upgrade the RAM on a MacBook to 4G for $60 (http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/8566DDR3S4GP/).

[gkarris]

FYI, Movie Maker was used to edit 5 of the Academy Award winning films (Youtube division) of 2009.

... as "Youtube" is the max quality Moviemaker gets... :eek:

LOL...

Well, I would think someone using a PC would use Avid or Vegas, anyways.

It's the same card as is in your MacBook Pro, except she got it for a lot less money.

If it's running Windows, wouldn't you want to pay less? :D

LOL...

[Wikinerd]

Do you really expect them to go into detail in a TV ad?

I'd say so. It has been mentioned several times before in this thread. Apparently "they" went deeper into detail than you did.

(It was funny though... )


PS. Was there another "Video Card" part in the ad that is worth laughing at? I don't think so.

[Wikinerd]

At least she won't have to stare at a spinning beach ball all the time.

At least there's a beach ball to stare at.

On Windows the only thing you've got was the hour glass which signifies everything from "loading a file, please wait" to "program is not responding"... Yes, I'd much rather see a beach ball and the "watch"
http://www0.info.apple.com/images/kbase/25571/watch.gif
which at least would tell me if my application is not responding without having to wait and realize that it's not going to respond and bring up the task manager.

And apparently a beach ball would waste less time—I would bring up the Force Quit panel as soon as one lasted for more than 5 seconds... Whereas Windows you'll have to wait to realize when it's not responding and when it's just loading—just like you do with a task manager, WHEN you realize it's not responding, IF you realize it's not responding.

[DMann]

Actually, I think one PowerMac G5 tower that is in a decent state might cost more than a Mac Pro— you might like to take a look in the antique section of eBay:D...

(not meant to insult Power Mac users, this is just an exaggeration and joke; but on a serious note, G5s are 4 years ago. Time to move on.)This clearly illustrates the concept of resale value in regard to Macs.

As for the thread, allow me to dig out this figure in favour of Final Cut—
http://tvbeurope.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1269&Itemid=46

As well as these attributes of Final Cut Pro that may make it appealing:
http://digitalfilms.wordpress.com/2008/08/16/avid-vs-fcp-–-market-dominance/

(Actual percentages irrelevant—"80/20" is a nickname of the Pareto Principle, which correctly applies here.)

And for the people saying that it's not really used by hollywood and "top" professionals, just take a look at this page:
http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/action/
(The fact that these are posted there means that they're used by these companies/production crews)Excellent references and comparisons between Avid and FCS - FCS is cost effective, has lot's of flexibility when it comes to file types, QT especially, equipment, and 80/20% seems to be an accurate assessment in terms of features/overall cost.

[rotta]

The "Video Card" part made me LOL so hard.

Yeah, the GMA950 in the plastic Macbook is really state of the art.

[NT1440]

At least there's a beach ball to stare at.

On Windows the only thing you've got was the hour glass which signifies everything from "loading a file, please wait" to "program is not responding"... Yes, I'd much rather see a beach ball and the "watch"
http://www0.info.apple.com/images/kbase/25571/watch.gif
which at least would tell me if my application is not responding without having to wait and realize that it's not going to respond and bring up the task manager.

And apparently a beach ball would waste less time—I would bring up the Force Quit panel as soon as one lasted for more than 5 seconds... Whereas Windows you'll have to wait to realize when it's not responding and when it's just loading—just like you do with a task manager, WHEN you realize it's not responding, IF you realize it's not responding.
:confused:

When was the last time you used windows? Theres no hourglass anymore.

[rotta]

:confused:

When was the last time you used windows? Theres no hourglass anymore.

True. A spinning beach-ball is a lot more fun.

[aaquib]

Yeah, the GMA950 in the plastic Macbook is really state of the art.

Maybe if you some how went back to 2006...But in 2009, the MacBook comes with an nVidia GeForce 9400M.

[rotta]

Maybe if you some how went back to 2006...But in 2009, the MacBook comes with an nVidia GeForce 9400M.

Up to the last revision last autumn that is not the case. And the Mac Mini I bought in february this year neither.

[Wikinerd]

:confused:

When was the last time you used windows? Theres no hourglass anymore.

Ah. Yes. My apologies. I haven't really used Windows much since XP SP2.

Vista's new "progress indicator" is essentially just a superficial change over the hourglass, replacing the famed hourglass with a circle indicator in Apple's footsteps. The distinction between "please wait" and "application is not responding" is still the same; i.e. none.

Up to the last revision last autumn that is not the case.

Do your research. Late 2007. Anything (regarding MacBooks) between then and last autumn was the slightly better X3100.

[brop52]

Up to the last revision last autumn that is not the case. And the Mac Mini I bought in february this year neither.

As said previously the MBs used X3100 since November 2007.

You bought the Mac Mini in February? That really sucks and I hope you got a good deal considering the new ones came out on March 3rd.

[psingh01]

+3847928734972938749872893749

Reminds me of the threads where "pro photographers" were mad cause they wanted a laptop without a glossy screen. Really? Color critical work on a laptop? You can't be that much of a pro...

Tell that to Peter Jackson. His team used Powerbooks to help in the filming of Lord of the Rings. Sometimes you can't drag a room full of workstations to the middle of the boondocks. That's what laptops are for.

[xbjllb]

She is a filmmaker, well that sucks for her because I am a filmmaker and in the industry 90 percent of the software we use is Final cut pro.

If this ad was supposed to be geared toward filmmakers than in was a waste of money. Film editors and know about computers and they would never prefer pc over a mac

...until they have to author and deliver a Blu-ray disc to clients who demand it for their plasmas.

Then they have no choice but to do it on Windows. Thanks for that "bag of hurt", Steve-o.

And if you have to run Windows to accomplish a vitally necessary video task, you just might as well use a PC. From start to finish.

:apple:

[UltraNEO*]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APQv8JTKM9A

i just built the hp online with these specs
64 bit Vista - SP1
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo Processor T9550 (2.66 GHz)
4GB DDR2
320GB 7200rpm SATA
1GB nVidia GT130M
Blu-ray drive
webcam + fingerprint reader
wireless - n

for $1785

Pretty good value for money.

Sounds like an awesome deal there!! :) But a HPeee??? :o

[Whiteyez]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNnX6XRQBec

[Wikinerd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNnX6XRQBec

Very ironic indeed, yes. Made (almost) 3 years ago. Published on Apple's website on Oct 9, 06

[jake.f]

You all do need to accept the fact that these ads are no more stupid then the apple ads.

[Melrose]

You all do need to accept the fact that these ads are no more stupid then the apple ads.

actually, not exactly - The I'm A Mac ads were creative and inventive and used hyperbole and pantomime to make a point. They were funny first of all.

The M$ tries to pass off their ads as actual cold, heartless fact - Which I think makes them more reprehensible for spreading outright lies.

[Wikinerd]

actually, not exactly - The I'm A Mac ads were creative and inventive and used hyperbole and pantomime to make a point. They were funny first of all.

The M$ tries to pass off their ads as actual cold, heartless fact - Which I think makes them more reprehensible for spreading outright lies.

The MS ads were funny... They showed us what "tech savvy" means, after all...:D

[maxxaddict]

She should have bought the White MacBook with 4GB RAM!! She said she needed Firewire, fine, no aluminum but the white one would be fine. Instead of that HP Hunk of Junk!

firewire is firewire, so you'd need a fw800 to fw400 4 pin cable for your DV camera... you don't get one with your DV camera or computer anyway. FW400 is only dead with apple because the new FW800 ports are backwards compatible and really how much does a firewire cable cost...

[xbjllb]

firewire is firewire, so you'd need a fw800 to fw400 4 pin cable for your DV camera... you don't get one with your DV camera or computer anyway. FW400 is only dead with apple because the new FW800 ports are backwards compatible and really how much does a firewire cable cost...

More than it would have cost Apple to put them in, and will end up costing Apple much more in the long run in customer satisfaction.

Among the high end customers that use FW400 daily.

:apple:

[brop52]

F400 is not that great anyway. Obviously it is better to have it than to not have it, but all of the computers but the MB have F800 now. The Alum MB has nothing and the White MB has F400. There are a lot of choices and if you absolutely need firewire the White MB is a good choice. If you want something faster the MBP has F800. The cable is cheap if you have a F400 device.

[TripleF]

Love the new anti-hunters Apple ads. :D

[neiltc13]

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/05/14/latest-laptop-hunters-ad-from-microsoft-hits-the-web-meet-lauren-and-sue/

Here we go again!

Sue buys Lauren this (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9150624&st=Dell+XPS+13&lp=2&type=product&cp=1&id=1218036666917) computer for $972, considerably less than the $1700 budget they set out with.

2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB DDR3
GeForce 9400M
320GB HDD
13.3" 1280x800 display


From Apple, the same specification costs $1774.

[Eidorian]

That looks like the Studio XPS 13. That's quite the nice piece of hardware.

[twoodcc]

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/05/14/latest-laptop-hunters-ad-from-microsoft-hits-the-web-meet-lauren-and-sue/

Here we go again!

Sue buys Lauren this (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9150624&st=Dell+XPS+13&lp=2&type=product&cp=1&id=1218036666917) computer for $972, considerably less than the $1700 budget they set out with.

2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4GB DDR3
GeForce 9400M
320GB HDD
13.3" 1280x800 display


From Apple, the same specification costs $1774.

yeah, i thought i saw a new one tonight on tv. wasn't impressed

[macuser154]

I reckon Microsoft will attack the Mac's lack of games next

[jmoore5196]

I'm not sure when "cutting video" became correct parlance ... most editors I know still say "edit." My guess is that whatever she is doing with video, she isn't too serious - or too professional - about it.

[Wikinerd]

I reckon Microsoft will attack the Mac's lack of games next

I thought they already did. (the one with the kid and mom... he bought it "for playing games")

[macusernick]

Oh boy this one will be fun....


One of the arguments that fails but is used the most is "total cost of ownership". A Mac user trying to use this argument is just downright stupid.
I would agree with the total cost of ownership is more for a Mac... but you are forgetting the most important part... the OS. Sure you can spend half the price, but you don't get Mac OS X. Yes, you can get a Hackintosh copy and load it onto a PC, but this ad is targeted for general users, not nerds.

There are other aspects to the "total cost of ownership" argument Apple fans like to make. One being anti-virus software. First of all, good AV software is free. Secondly, you have to be pretty stupid to get infected these days. IE and Firefox both guard against malware actively, and will give you multiple warnings and try to stop you from downloading malware at every step. Then Windows itself will attempt to stop you from installing and running it. So that part is bunk.
Maybe this is bunk for someone who knows how to use a computer, but for the XX% of Windows users that really have no clue (i.e. the majority of non-nerds) this is still an important factor. I know plenty of people who still get viruses, adware, spyware, etc on their system.

Apple apologists like to point out that Macs come with iLife. Well, I just recently reinstalled OS X to remove all of iLife except iPhoto. iLife is the ultimate in bloatware. By reinstalling OS X without iLife installed I have about 10GB more of free space, even though iLife only requires 6GB to be installed.
Funny how things can easily be taken out of context... let me guess... you installed all of the bonus clips/samples for GarageBand? Um... of course you will save 10gb if you remove that, duh.

The iLife suite is useless for most people, and iMovie is only good if you want to do Youtube or Mobile Me clips. It's no longer any good for producing actual movies that would be good enough to burn to DVD, which is still what most people want. Even iMovie's newest and most impressive feature, image stabilization, is a gimmick. All it does is zoom up on the picture. So you have to decide between having a full resolution shaky image or a lower quality still image.
The usefulness of the iLife package is obviously in the eye of the beholder. For those of us that are not Pro editors, iMovie is a great piece of beginning software that will get you accustomed to the way Final Cut works. Sure iMovie isn't the cat's meow... but it comes bundled for free. What PC bundle is better then?

Freeware is almost non-existant on a Mac as well. Aside from VLC, Perian, and Adium, what decent freeware is there? Nearly every piece of software wants you to pony up $5, $10, $15 to fully unlock it. On Windows theres a whole world of freeware thats nearly as or as good as the paid stuff. With Windows, you can get by entirely on freeware.
Are you really this uninformed on the Mac scene? There are plenty of excellent Freeware applications available for the Mac as well as a great open-source based community that provides thousands of additional free software packages. If you don't believe me, just go to macupdate.com or opensourcemac.org and take a look around, you might be surprised.

Another aspect to the "total cost of ownership" argument would be warranty and service. Apple is known for not covering basic build quality issues, just ask the first gen MacBook Air owners about their hinge problems. Apple offers NO damage coverage. With a prebuilt PC, the manufacturer will offer warranties that cost about the same as AppleCare that cover accidental and liquid damage. Apple doesn't do this. AppleCare isn't even available for phone support 24/7. And if you're like me, and they replaced your screen with a defective one, you have to drive 75 miles to your closest Apple Store to prove its defective and get a replacement!
I can only speak for myself on this one, but the AppleCare plan has been the best warranty of any product that I have ever owned. The representatives are courteous, helpful, and better yet, speak English! My laptop was shipped out and back to me in less then 2 weeks. I'm sure not everyone has a great story like me, but there must be a reason Consumers Report gave Apple the top award for customer service... hmmm.

Now that the "total cost of ownership" argument is completely and utterly dead, let's go back to the commercial. ... The best part of the commercial is the comment about the amount of RAM the MacBook Pro comes with. It's true. Apple's computers tend to come with 1/4 (Mac mini) to 1/2 as much memory as PCs do. Some argue that its because OS X is more efficient. That's just a load of BS that you can smell from a mile away. I've been using OS X for years now, as well as Windows for even longer. Windows runs much better on the same hardware, and Leopard is every bit as "bloated" as Vista is.
So you loaded Vista into boot camp on your Mac, or you got a Hackintosh copy and loaded it onto your PC rig? Funny thing about that is, last time I knew, Vista performed better in boot camp on Macs then it did "natively" on PC machines... what's the deal with that?

Oh, and one quick thing I forgot to mention... MBPs come standard with 4gb ram so this whole point about the ram discussion is a waste of time.

And to anyone who says Microsoft is "scared", keep in mind that Apple's worldwide market share is only at about 3.5%, Microsoft's is at about 90%. You think about that ;)
It's funny you mention that at the end... I would rather be the 3.5% that is happy and content with their computer then be the 90% that complain and troll on Mac forums.

Thanks for your time!
mun

[spininaround]

http://movies.apple.com/media/us/mac/getamac/2009/apple-mvp-elimination-us-20090512_480x272.mov

[cah87]

http://movies.apple.com/media/us/mac/getamac/2009/apple-mvp-elimination-us-20090512_480x272.mov

I love that, its the best apple ad yet in my opinion :-)

[dlo604]

You know what I would do? I would take the cash, leave my PC in the box, and then return my PC for the cash. After a week I'd go to a different Best Bu or Future Shop and buy a new uMBP. Half those people are so stupid.

[vvvvv]

this video's meant to breed idiocy into MORE idiots. it's terrible acting for one. she looks like a tool. the people who buy into this kind of video deserve to get stuck with a *****ty PC. that dude trying to sell her something in the store as well, is not believable. see, at least when we rip on apple, we know they're staging an experience that's already unbelievable, they know their position as a computer brand in the market, but microsoft keeps pulling this elbow jerking *****. it's so lame. they're so undependable. apple wouldn't be apple if their machines weren't over priced. i'm so curious as to why, microsoft, with boat loads of money, doesn't invest in better ad campaigns and concepts.

[vvvvv]

"this is going to be a fast processor... for video editing... thats going to help you alot.". wow. thanks captain obvious. when you paint a door black, you can call it a black door finally... hmm.

[xbjllb]

"this is going to be a fast processor... for video editing... thats going to help you alot.". wow. thanks captain obvious. when you paint a door black, you can call it a black door finally... hmm.

Yep, and when she wants to author, burn and proof a Blu-ray disc for her plasma she'll be able to do that too.

But not on a Mac. Nope, no Mac can do that without resorting to running Windoze.

Massive fail.

:apple:

[DMann]

Yep, and when she wants to author, burn and proof a Blu-ray disc for her plasma she'll be able to do that too.

But not on a Mac. Nope, no Mac can do that without resorting to running Windoze.

Massive fail.

:apple:Since Macs run Windoze, then Yep! FCS, on the other hand, will be out of reach with her sub-par choice.

[xbjllb]

Since Macs run Windoze, then Yep! FCS, on the other hand, will be out of reach with her sub-par choice.

Poor thing. Thankfully with some of the money she saved, she'll just have to bite the bullet and edit with Avid or Adobe Premiere. And then she can send Blu-ray discs of her work to all her clients. Keeping her entire workflow in the professional PC film/video world from capture to final presentation.

Somebody better tell Hollywood Avid and Premiere are "sub-par" to FCS. Don't think they've gotten the message yet.

More massive fail with that attempt than even Apple. If Apple wants to gain market share with FCS, dragging their feet on Blu-ray has got to be the single most asinine way in the world to do that.

Now if they're hell-bent on the exact opposite, then by all means, carry on.

:apple:

[DMann]

Poor thing. Thankfully with some of the money she saved, she'll just have to bite the bullet and edit with Avid or Adobe Premiere. And then she can send Blu-ray discs of her work to all her clients. Keeping her entire workflow in the professional PC film/video world from capture to final presentation.

Somebody better tell Hollywood Avid and Premiere are "sub-par" to FCS. Don't think they've gotten the message yet.

More massive fail with that attempt than even Apple. If Apple wants to gain market share with FCS, dragging their feet on Blu-ray has got to be the single most asinine way in the world to do that.

Now if they're hell-bent on the exact opposite, then by all means, carry on.

:apple: Poor thing - I believe you've summed it up quite well - with her alleged budget, she probably wouldn't even be able to afford Avid or Adobe Premiere Pro - who knows, Microsoft might have offered to pitch in and buy her an Avid DS workstation for $30,000, in addition to her laptop. BTW - both Avid and Premiere run exceptionally well on OS X. Conversely, transferring large files on a laptop running Vista takes hours - as the transfers often fail to complete at all. Most film makers I work with transfer files from Avid to FCP and back again, mainly because they prefer the streamlined interface and comparative ease of editing. Although Avid’s strong points are the robustness of media management and responsive editing dynamics, Final Cut’s strengths are its easy timeline editing functions, the ability to mix many media types due to the QuickTime architecture, and the embrace of third party hardware. Sure, I wish Apple would stop delaying BD support, but until then, we'll just have to boot into Windows for that.

[rich2k4]

what i don't understand is. what are all these people who bash macs doing here? did they sign up specifically to troll?

I mean if you like PC's that much, then go to some PC forum where instead of getting help, people end up writing a virus for you.

[xIGmanIx]

So you buy an HP, Sony, Lenovo, Dell, etc... you don't go to the third parties to buy things cheaper? I know I do.

No they come already included like Blu Ray, eSata, express card, dual hardrive suport

[GoodWatch]

what i don't understand is. what are all these people who bash macs doing here? did they sign up specifically to troll?

I mean if you like PC's that much, then go to some PC forum where instead of getting help, people end up writing a virus for you.

And what I don't understand is what are all these people who bash MS doing here? I mean, if you like MS that much, then go to some MS forum :p There is sometimes more talk about MS and PC's than over Apple and Macs.