New MS Laptop Hunter Ad

[BMWFan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APQv8JTKM9A

i just built the hp online with these specs
64 bit Vista - SP1
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo Processor T9550 (2.66 GHz)
4GB DDR2
320GB 7200rpm SATA
1GB nVidia GT130M
Blu-ray drive
webcam + fingerprint reader
wireless - n

for $1785

pretty good value for money.

[bruinsrme]

Use coupon code: NB8766 to get $400 off a $1,199+ notebook PC. This coupon will work for most HP notebook PCs except the dv4t Special Edition, Compaq, and HP Mini. It will expire after just 1,800 redemptions. Basically, it won't last long! HP PAVILION NOTEBOOK PC DEAL

http://www.gotapex.com/deals/redirect/55980/IK2QCERB/

[NT1440]

I really hate when they throw tech jargin into commercials in order to impress people.

The amount of included RAM is really a deciding factor for someone who is supposedly mildy tech savvy? Really?

[BMWFan]

Use coupon code: NB8766 to get $400 off a $1,199+ notebook PC. This coupon will work for most HP notebook PCs except the dv4t Special Edition, Compaq, and HP Mini. It will expire after just 1,800 redemptions. Basically, it won't last long! HP PAVILION NOTEBOOK PC DEAL

http://www.gotapex.com/deals/redirect/55980/IK2QCERB/

cool
# Genuine Windows Vista Ultimate with Service Pack 1 (64-bit)
# – Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo Processor T9800 (2.93GHz)
# – 6GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
# – 320GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive
# – 1GB Nvidia GeForce GT 130M
# – 16.0" diagonal High Definition HP Ultra BrightView Infinity Display (1920x1080p)
# – Blu-Ray ROM with SuperMulti DVD+/-R/RW Double Layer
# – Webcam + Fingerprint Reader with HP Imprint Finish (Fluid)
# – Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-card with Bluetooth
# – Full Size Backlit Keyboard
# – 12 Cell Lithium Ion Battery

for $2000 after the coupon. it's a steal and a half!

[Eidorian]

I really hate when they throw tech jargin into commercials in order to impress people.

The amount of included RAM is really a deciding factor for someone who is supposedly mildy tech savvy? Really?Maybe?

At least they showed all those delicious ports. They should have driven home the point with a quad core laptop.

[ziggyonice]

This is probably the worst one yet.

[Melrose]

The comments on the video tell all: WHO uses a laptop for video editing? Kind of says what quality work she does if that's what's she's looking for..

..I can't imagine some video geek from Pixar or Dream Works walking into Best Buy going "Okay, so I need this laptop... I'm a video editor..."

[gkarris]

The comments on the video tell all: WHO uses a laptop for video editing? Kind of says what quality work she does if that's what's she's looking for..

..I can't imagine some video geek from Pixar or Dream Works walking into Best Buy going "Okay, so I need this laptop... I'm a video editor..."

I tried putting together a $1500 Dell desktop for video editing/DVD authoring a few years back (the older PowerPC Mini's were out at the time).

WHAT A NIGHTMARE THAT WAS... :eek:

Couldn't get it to work for the the life of me, with Adobe Premier Elements.

Ended up getting a stock Mac Mini 1.66 Core Duo for $579 (edu) when those came out. Was able to use the external FW DVDRW drive I had tried for the Dell Desktop (since the internal EIDE one wouldn't burn discs right).

The $579 Mini worked just fine... :eek:

Just goes to show...

This ad is the worst one. Now many people "who want to do videos" will get a PC, and boy, are they in for a big surprise.

[Cboss]

That guy helping her has no idea what he's doing, and she just excepts everything he says.

[alexbates]

This is probably the worst one yet.

I also agree. It is just stupid when Sheila says the MBP doesn't have as much RAM as the other computers. What many people do not know about Macs that have not used them much is that they don't need nearly as much RAM compared to Vista. A Mac running Leopard should be able to run better than Vista with only 1/4 of the memory. And if Sheila really needs more memory, its called order 4GB from OWC for only $50.

Apple needs to fight back with a commercial that lets new computer buyers know this.

[Eidorian]

I also agree. It is just stupid when Sheila says the MBP doesn't have as much RAM as the other computers. What many people do not know about Macs that have not used them much is that they don't need nearly as much RAM compared to Vista. A Mac running Leopard should be able to run better than Vista with only 1/4 of the memory. And if Sheila really needs more memory, its called order 4GB from OWC for only $50.

Apple needs to fight back with a commercial that lets new computer buyers know this.That on top of the sticker price you need to buy more third party hardware to make your Mac's hardware up to par with a Windows machine?

I'm not even going to bring up how many times I've linked to Apple's support documentation on Activity Monitor.

[maclover001]

The Lauren one made a point, but the rest just suck.

[alexbates]

That on top of the sticker price you need to buy more third party hardware to make your Mac's hardware up to par with a Windows machine?

I'm not even going to bring up how many times I've linked to Apple's support documentation on Activity Monitor.

How would a new Unibody MBP not be up to par with a PC? The only thing that makes it worse than a PC is the HD capacity.

And another thing, what Frank says... "Is this plastic?". Most PC outer frames cannot compare to the new Unibodys.

[Eidorian]

How would a new Unibody MBP not be up to par with a PC? The only thing that makes it worse than a PC is the HD capacity.

And another thing, what Frank says... "Is this plastic?". Most PC outer frames cannot compare to the new Unibodys.The anemic stock hard drive and RAM for the most part. You can almost tack on the low, middle of the road P7350 for that price.

It's quite easy to skimp on the computer hardware when you can dress the chassis up.

[chrono1081]

The comments on the video tell all: WHO uses a laptop for video editing? Kind of says what quality work she does if that's what's she's looking for..

..I can't imagine some video geek from Pixar or Dream Works walking into Best Buy going "Okay, so I need this laptop... I'm a video editor..."

+3847928734972938749872893749

Reminds me of the threads where "pro photographers" were mad cause they wanted a laptop without a glossy screen. Really? Color critical work on a laptop? You can't be that much of a pro...

[kockgunner]

This is probably the worst one yet.

Yeah. Complaining about RAM these days is pathetic. She dismisses the Macbook Pro because of the stock amount of RAM. I just saw 4GB 1066 RAM today for $55.

Also, the ad started in mid afternoon and ended in the evening. Assuming these ads are real (unlikely), she sure took a long time deciding which laptop to get.

Anyone else notice they always show the Macs with the old Tiger background, not the Leopard background? Are they trying to make the computers look ancient and removing all mention of Leopard?

[chrono1081]

I also agree. It is just stupid when Sheila says the MBP doesn't have as much RAM as the other computers. What many people do not know about Macs that have not used them much is that they don't need nearly as much RAM compared to Vista. A Mac running Leopard should be able to run better than Vista with only 1/4 of the memory. And if Sheila really needs more memory, its called order 4GB from OWC for only $50.

Apple needs to fight back with a commercial that lets new computer buyers know this.

+8593458304 to this one as well.

OSX is a million times more efficient (not an actual number) then Windows is. People who try and argue otherwise are wrong.

For example, me and my coworkers mess with all the development/graphics/media software you can image. They all have $7k+ gaming rigs all with the latest and greatest hardware and I just have my little MBP. Consistantly every single program whether it be photoshop, lightroom, corel painter, etc Ram intensive tasks perform faster on my machine. Why? Because the hardware is not bogged down on mac OS like it is in vista.

When I port windows programs I wrote over to Mac OS, performance is much faster on mac os. I dont do any optimizing, I just simply make the necessary adjustments to port the program over to run on the other OS.

This is why once I switched to mac OS I stayed with mac os.

[tdgrn]

Yeah, no pun intended, but she wasn't exactly comparing Apples to Apples...
I think we all know that... Since I work at Best Buy, and when I have somebody interested in video, once I tell them about the differences, they don't care that it has 2 vs 4 gb of ram, they just want it to work... Which a MBP would work much better than the horrible hp she picked out... Guess thats why Microsoft is making the commercial...

[bki122689]

She is a filmmaker, well that sucks for her because I am a filmmaker and in the industry 90 percent of the software we use is Final cut pro.

If this ad was supposed to be geared toward filmmakers than in was a waste of money. Film editors and know about computers and they would never prefer pc over a mac

[Saladinos]

Any video producer would know (and actually, so should Microsoft):

It's all about the software, stupid!

On that basis, the Mac wins. It is that simple. And a RAM upgrade is certainly affordable.

[BMWFan]

Why would anyone need to install 3rd party RAM on a Mac to make it level with a stock PC. I thought Macs "just worked"?

It's funny seeing fanboys claiming Apple hardware is so superior and NOT overpriced and the first thing they tell you to do is to run to 3rd parties to buy extra HD and RAM because they're cheaper. :D

[NT1440]

Why would anyone need to install 3rd party RAM on a Mac to make it level with a stock PC. I thought Macs "just worked"?

It's funny seeing fanboys claiming Apple hardware is so superior and NOT overpriced and the first thing they tell you to do is to run to 3rd parties to buy extra HD and RAM because they're cheaper. :D

Did you just skip over the part where everyone was saying you DONT need to bump it up to 4GB in order for it to work well? Vista (SuperFetch anyway) EATS up RAM, so now we have this little myth floating around that 2GB in Vista is equivalent to 2GB in Leopard. Its just not.

And if RAM was so important to her anyway, youd think shed actually know how to install some (a monkey could do it), making the amount it comes preloaded with a moot point.

[miles01110]

My favorite part was:

“Is this graphics card going to be powerful?”
“Mmhm.”
“Wow.”

...

[BMWFan]

Did you just skip over the part where everyone was saying you DONT need to bump it up to 4GB in order for it to work well? Vista (SuperFetch anyway) EATS up RAM, so now we have this little myth floating around that 2GB in Vista is equivalent to 2GB in Leopard. Its just not.

And if RAM was so important to her anyway, youd think shed actually know how to install some (a monkey could do it), making the amount it comes preloaded with a moot point.

But like I said why would she want to install a third party one when Macs are all about "it just works". Also you do realise it's not only the OS that needs RAM. OMG Mac hardware is the best. Apple is NOT overpriced, but just in case buy the base setup and go to the third party for HD and RAM because they're cheaper. Funny. :D What happened to superior and non-overpriced hardware? If she asked Apple to upgrade her RAM, the machine would definitely be out of her budget.

[NT1440]

But like I said why would she want to install a third party one when Macs are all about "it just works".

You're telling me that the MBP isn't going to work unless you max out the RAM?:rolleyes:

[BMWFan]

You're telling me that the MBP isn't going to work unless you max out the RAM?:rolleyes:

No, but if you want the MBP to "it just works as good as PC with 4GB RAM" in RAM intensive tasks like Audio/Video editing, you'd want to upgrade the RAM. With 2GB, it's more like "it just about about works".

[NT1440]

No, but if you want the MBP to "it just works as good as PC with 4GB RAM" in RAM intensive tasks like Audio/Video editing, you'd want to upgrade the RAM. With 2GB, it's more like "it just about about works".

""it just works as good as PC with 4GB RAM"

So your gonna take the marketing slogan, and tweak it to fit your agendas needs.......

Who is it in here that keeps talking about bias and fanboys?

[BMWFan]

""it just works as good as PC with 4GB RAM"

So your gonna take the marketing slogan, and tweak it to fit your agendas needs.......

Who is it in here that keeps talking about bias and fanboys?

just have a look around. it's more than a marketing slogan. that quote pops around every time someone asks why they should switch to a mac. it just works.

[NT1440]

just have a look around. it's more than a marketing slogan. that quote pops around every time someone asks why they should switch to a mac. it just works.

And yet again, what does that have to do with the point your trying to make? A MBP with 2GB of RAM works wonderfully.

[nplima]

My favorite part was:

“Is this graphics card going to be powerful?”
“Mmhm.”
“Wow.”

...


and that's about the best answer you can get in 1 second and to a vague question like that :D

[NT1440]

and that's about the best answer you can get in 1 second and to a vague question like that :D

Again its just a sad example of how marketing throws terms around to make it look technical.

"OMG she knows what a video card is, she must be more tech savvy than I am, i should listen!"

[gkarris]

Actually, does appeal to a lot of people who want to do videos.

Don't a lot of cell phones take videos you can upload to YouTube? :eek:

;)

[kastenbrust]

She compared DDR2 to DDR3 RAM without making any reference to the difference other than 2GB vs 4GB, isn't that illegal under false advertising laws?

[Eidorian]

She compared DDR2 to DDR3 RAM without making any reference to the difference other than 2GB vs 4GB, isn't that illegal under false advertising laws?Besides synthetic benchmarks how much of an improvement are you going to see in performance using DDR3 again?

[Consultant]

for $xyz after the coupon. it's a steal and a half!

Until you run into the usual windows problems.

Windows. Easy as 1-2 3 macrumors
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=693145

She is a filmmaker, well that sucks for her because I am a filmmaker and in the industry 90 percent of the software we use is Final cut pro.

If this ad was supposed to be geared toward filmmakers than in was a waste of money. Film editors and know about computers and they would never prefer pc over a mac

Exactly. In addition windows is really inefficient when working with large files.

[Melrose]

She is a filmmaker, well that sucks for her because I am a filmmaker and in the industry 90 percent of the software we use is Final cut pro.

I'm making the assumption that if Sheila is dumb enough to use a laptop for video editing she doesn't realize the HP won't run Final Cut..

If she had done her due research before looking for a livelihood-dependent working computer (which she made it out to be) she would have read - in countless places - you can install ram aftermarket and save many dollars.

"OMG she knows what a video card is, she must be more tech savvy than I am, i should listen!"
Just what I thought...

[Michael CM1]

This was easily the worst yet. The fact that Microsoft thinks there is no difference between DDR2 and DDR3 is almost criminal. That DDR2 just sucks speed right out the window.

As you guys have mostly pointed out -- except for the apparent tool OP -- what kind of professional video editor doesn't even look at the software included? Find me one "pro" who says, "Windows Movie Maker is just as good as iMovie" and I'll find you a pro out of a job. And as was also pointed out, a severe pro would use Final Cut. That's about as standard as photographers using Photoshop.

Then we have the screens. We all know the MBP is 15.4 inches. How big was the other one? "Bigger?" What, 17 inches of lesser resolution works for a video editor? O-M-G.

"Firewire, webcam, USB." Is Microsoft just trying to look stupid? Those things are on every MacBook Pro (and iMac). Just wow.

[Eidorian]

This was easily the worst yet. The fact that Microsoft thinks there is no difference between DDR2 and DDR3 is almost criminal. That DDR2 just sucks speed right out the window.Would you please prove this?

[Wikinerd]

If she asked Apple to upgrade her RAM, the machine would definitely be out of her budget.

...It's not like $50 is a lot compared to a $2000 purchase... If I can just spend $50 more and get the best of both worlds, I'd go for it...

[blackhand1001]

This was easily the worst yet. The fact that Microsoft thinks there is no difference between DDR2 and DDR3 is almost criminal. That DDR2 just sucks speed right out the window.

Are you kidding me. The front side bus has been the bottleneck on intel platforms for a quite a long time. The only thing that ddr3 does at the moment is give more overclocking headroom for memory clocks.

[NoSmokingBandit]

How would a new Unibody MBP not be up to par with a PC? The only thing that makes it worse than a PC is the HD capacity.

And another thing, what Frank says... "Is this plastic?". Most PC outer frames cannot compare to the new Unibodys.

I absolutely love how the fanboys bash pc laptops for plastic cases when not too long ago everyone was happy with the white and black plastic macbook. They must have been absolute **** too, huh?

[blackhand1001]

How would a new Unibody MBP not be up to par with a PC? The only thing that makes it worse than a PC is the HD capacity.

And another thing, what Frank says... "Is this plastic?". Most PC outer frames cannot compare to the new Unibodys.

Can you guys stop it with the unibody aluminum stuff. If thats all you can come up with to justify the price difference than you need to do better. I saw a toughbook demonstration at my school today, former student now works for Panasonic and the Macbook Pro is not anything amazing when it comes to durability.

Also, this commercial isn't meant for computer geeks like us. Its meant for consumers and trust me its pretty successful at what its supposed to accomplish.

[miles01110]

Also, this commercial isn't meant for computer geeks like us. Its meant for consumers and trust me its pretty successful at what its supposed to accomplish.

Oversimplification of a complex process with an intention to mislead? Yep.

[Pika]

No good film maker uses windows movie maker, it sucks.

[anti-microsoft]

What the hell is Microsoft doing? It's killing it's self! Is this reverse psychology? No wait, reverse reverse psychology? I don't know! They're making an ever bigger mess of themselves by airing these ads!

Ams.

[Beric]

At least I could emphasize with "Lauren." This ad is absolutely terrible, and I actually agree that MBP's are way to expensive for what they provide.

[jambosans]

I'm a PC and I can't use Final Cut Pro.

[GoodWatch]

Cute. I remember all the gloating over the 'I'm a PC and I'm a Mac' commercials. Now only sour comments. Yes, yes, I know.... If it ain't Apple it's crapple ;) (Before you shoot off any comments: all my gear is :apple:).

[B. Hunter]

The commercials are reflective of both the customer and the sales people wherever they are supposedly at. Each talks the same way. Neither knows what they are talking about. Been to Best Buy lately? None have a clue about the products they sell.

When is Microsoft going to develop a commercial like this with a customer that knows what they are talking about? Guess they don't want sales people to be put on the spot. To them everyone is stupid.

When is Microsoft getting into the hardware biz again?

[Beric]

Cute. I remember all the gloating over the 'I'm a PC and I'm a Mac' commercials. Now only sour comments. Yes, yes, I know.... If it ain't Apple it's crapple ;) (Before you shoot off any comments: all my gear is :apple:).

My next computer is a PC. But the Apple commercials at least try to be funny, and succeed.

[Winni]

The comments on the video tell all: WHO uses a laptop for video editing? Kind of says what quality work she does if that's what's she's looking for..

..I can't imagine some video geek from Pixar or Dream Works walking into Best Buy going "Okay, so I need this laptop... I'm a video editor..."

So why is Apple then always showing off Final Cut Pro on MacBook Pros? Or is it blasphemy to ask that question?

And wasn't even TODAY a link on this site's "Mac Bytes" section to "MacBook Pro on Mount Everest" - with a guy using Final Cut Pro to edit the daily footage on a notebook?

[asphyxiafeeling]

ok ok. i thought the first two were funny but this is a bit ridiculous.

i just /facepalm every time they throw in any tech jargon, they just sound very silly.

and 2gb of ram being a problem?

if you're so tech savvy buy yourself 4gb for like 50 bucks and put it in yourself, GEEZ.

[bericd]

ok ok. i thought the first two were funny but this is a bit ridiculous.

i just /facepalm every time they throw in any tech jargon, they just sound very silly.

and 2gb of ram being a problem?

if you're so tech savvy buy yourself 4gb for like 50 bucks and put it in yourself, GEEZ.

I've used Final Cut Express quite happily on my 2006 MBP with 2 GB.

[ibook4113]

This is probably the worst one yet.

Agreed, she went against everything that she told the audience, and everything the helper said to her......

She said fast processor, she could have got better with the mac

the helper even said "THIS IS GONNA BE A FAST PROCESSOR, FOR VIDEO EDITING THATS GONNA HELP YOU ALOT" and she went on a deciding factor of ram, which is actually running at a slower speed than the macbook pro

And she said "portability is super important" she went for a larger, lesser quality screen, baring in mind she wanted something portable and for design standard.

And, while this may have not been what she asked for but.... she would have got a far superior video editing application with mac in comparison to windows.



I think this ad was Microsoft trying to challenge the 'artist=mac user' idea and they haven't succeeded.... disregarding everything that was told to her and that she asked for herself.

Also.... i just noticed this but where she brags about the processor on the HP she doesn't even mention what the one on the mac was, even though it's speed was greater and would have been something she was interested in.

[Maven1975]

Yeah. Complaining about RAM these days is pathetic. She dismisses the Macbook Pro because of the stock amount of RAM. I just saw 4GB 1066 RAM today for $55.

Also, the ad started in mid afternoon and ended in the evening. Assuming these ads are real (unlikely), she sure took a long time deciding which laptop to get.

Anyone else notice they always show the Macs with the old Tiger background, not the Leopard background? Are they trying to make the computers look ancient and removing all mention of Leopard?

Dude I agree. BUT.. Apple is LAME for their lack of recognition in this department. All of their computers - Even the Air - should come stock with 4gb's.

We pay a premium for their computers. I enjoy doing so because everything works. Apple has put themselves in this battle (Im a Mac/ Im a PC Ad's). Now, they need to step up and fill in these type of lame cracks.

[NoSmokingBandit]

Oversimplification of a complex process with an intention to mislead? Yep.

I didnt even post that in this thread. Try again.

[NT1440]

Dude I agree. BUT.. Apple is LAME for their lack of recognition in this department. All of their computers - Even the Air - should come stock with 4gb's.

We pay a premium for their computers. I enjoy doing so because everything works. Apple has put themselves in this battle (Im a Mac/ Im a PC Ad's). Now, they need to step up and fill in these type of lame cracks.

Uhh, can I ask why? Leopard runs great on 2GB and FLIES on 4GB, but you sure as hell dont need it now.

Good luck with 4gb in the air right now, let me know how your lap feels ;)

[dohardthings]

1

"Hey I'm a mac" (soccar shorts juggling a soccer ball)
"And I'm a pc and I have bigger boots so I can play soccar better than you mac" (big boots with a soccer ball sitting on the laces)
Mac: "Hey buddy wouldn't it work better if you were a little more agile maybe?"
PC: Nope if I wore regular cleats I know you could beat me that is why I am wearing these" "Score" (Mac shoots the ball past him)
Mac: "You mean my score"
PC: "No we switched goles"


You guys get the drift


Hey I'm a mac (normal)
Hey I'm a pc (superman suit)
Mac: "PC, whats with the power suit, going sumo wrestling?" [something like that I don't know exactly]
PC: "Actually I wear this all the time"
Mac: "You wear that all the time."
PC: "Yep me and my buddies are wearing these now, {wispering} our legs are getting too weak to hold us up"
Mac: "Really feel for you PC"
PC: "I'm fine all people need to use me is to buy a superman suit"

rough but hey who knows

[DeanCorp]

She should have bought the White MacBook with 4GB RAM!! She said she needed Firewire, fine, no aluminum but the white one would be fine. Instead of that HP Hunk of Junk!

[NT1440]

She should have bought the White MacBook with 4GB RAM!! She said she needed Firewire, fine, no aluminum but the white one would be fine. Instead of that HP Hunk of Junk!

And do video editing on a 13" screen?

[puckhead193]

Well i hope she enjoys using Final Cut... o wait. Enjoy avid? :confused:



:p

[briansolomon]

I really hate when they throw tech jargin into commercials in order to impress people.

The amount of included RAM is really a deciding factor for someone who is supposedly mildy tech savvy? Really?


Absolutely. My decidedly un-tech friend was concerned that his new computer would have plenty of harddrive space and RAM. He wanted the best he could get for under $500. This ended up being 3 GB and 320 GB. But more importantly it was under $500

[brianj1400]

Dumb chick makes dumb choice based on advice from dumb guy!
Apple has nothing to worry about.

[morphineseason]

These points were pretty much already stated, but I'll just restate them anyways to drive home the point:

1. Mac OS X's memory management doesn't suck like Vista.

2. Good luck running Final Cut (Pro) on a PC (you're not going to)

3. Every professional film crew I've seen on behind the scene type stuff or interviews are using Macs, so it doesn't take a professional film editor to know that Macs are the industry standard in that field.

4. APPS APPS APPS. You get iMovie out of the box with a Mac which is above and beyond anything you'll find on a PC out of the box. I tried video editing on a PC and it was just a nightmare. Third party software is hit or miss (mostly miss), and I found Adobe Premiere to be a little rough around the edges, which is unfortunate because that's probably the best video editing software you'll find on a PC.

5. Reliability. I don't even need to explain this.

[miles01110]

I didnt even post that in this thread. Try again.

Interesting. For some reason it decided your name should be attached, but the person I was quoting is actually the message below yours. Strange.

[dohardthings]

and who needs a huge hard drive just get a 3rd party 2 TB external some of us do fine with a relatively small amount of storage space (now i hae jinxed myself and will need 6 TB of space next week, just kidding)

[tk421]

She is a filmmaker, well that sucks for her because I am a filmmaker and in the industry 90 percent of the software we use is Final cut pro.

If this ad was supposed to be geared toward filmmakers than in was a waste of money. Film editors and know about computers and they would never prefer pc over a mac

Well i hope she enjoys using Final Cut... o wait. Enjoy avid? :confused:

:p

Although it's sort of off-topic, most feature films are made using Avid.

From an Avid press release: "All of the nominated and award-winning films in the Best Motion Picture, Directing, Film Editing, Sound Editing, Sound Mixing, Visual Effects, Documentary Feature and Original Score categories at the 80th Annual Academy Awards® were created using at least one Avid®, Digidesign®, Sibelius® or Softimage® system." (note that all those companies are owned by Avid)

However, as others have said, you're not going to be editing big productions on a laptop. And I hate these ads as much as the rest of you.

[dyler]

Alright this commercial is just downright moronic. She is a filmmaker and she wants to edit high end videos, what is she going to use premiere? HA HA HA have fun with all your non-standard video types. Have you ever tried editing HD in premiere, yuck does not work well. Have fun with windows and premiere and I'll be laughing at you at the film festival when I win and your film is not even finished because you had windows and premiere and I have Final Cut Pro, the standard now in the entertainment industry.

[joeshell383]

That guy helping her has no idea what he's doing, and she just excepts everything he says.

Does she except everything he says? No. Does she accept? Maybe.

[BMWFan]

Alright this commercial is just downright moronic. She is a filmmaker and she wants to edit high end videos, what is she going to use premiere? HA HA HA have fun with all your non-standard video types. Have you ever tried editing HD in premiere, yuck does not work well. Have fun with windows and premiere and I'll be laughing at you at the film festival when I win and your film is not even finished because you had windows and premiere and I have Final Cut Pro, the standard now in the entertainment industry.

Because premier is the only thing available on Windows for video editing. :rolleyes:

on the other hand can you even hardsub ssa/ass subtitles into an avi using OSX? It's a simple question.

[joeshell383]

At least I could emphasize with "Lauren." This ad is absolutely terrible, and I actually agree that MBP's are way to expensive for what they provide.

How would you emphasize with Lauren? I can see how you would empathize with her.

[max654000]

I've used Final Cut Express quite happily on my 2006 MBP with 2 GB.

HAHA YEA!
Now I'm recalling the "Hi, PC home movie!" ad from Apple!!!

[Trundle]

Dumb chick makes dumb choice based on advice from dumb guy!
Apple has nothing to worry about.

She went shopping at Frys....where nobody knows a thing, not to mention you cannot pronounce anybody's name who works there...:confused:

[NewSc2]

That's my local Fry's! I live like a block away.

And that isn't the right parking lot. :confused::confused:

[Pika]

That's my local Fry's! I live like a block away.

And that isn't the right parking lot. :confused::confused:

She went shopping at Frys....where nobody knows a thing, not to mention you cannot pronounce anybody's name who works there...:confused:

In all these Microsoft 'Laptop Hunters' adverts, its always night time when they leave the Best Buy, Frys, etc with their laptops. Yet when they enter the stores its like mid-afternoon broad daylight.

I think there is something odd going on here.

[BMWFan]

so can anyone answer my question

"can you even hardsub ssa/ass/srt subtitles into an avi using OSX? It's a simple question"

if Macs were so good for video editing, surely it should be possible right, right??

[HSE]

Someone should tell "Sheila" that 2GB RAM on OS X feels like 8GB RAM on Windows Vista. I think she'll figure it out in 6 months when she feels like chucking her HP against the wall :o

And video editing on a notebook? Really?? If you're going to do that, it should be a MBP.

[HSE]

In all these Microsoft 'Laptop Hunters' adverts, its always night time when they leave the Best Buy, Frys, etc with their laptops. Yet when they enter the stores its like mid-afternoon broad daylight.

I think there is something odd going on here.

It has already been established that they are all actors.

[NT1440]

It has already been established that they are all actors.

No it hasnt, the first one just happened to be a SAG eligible actress.

[tk421]

Alright this commercial is just downright moronic. She is a filmmaker and she wants to edit high end videos, what is she going to use premiere? HA HA HA have fun with all your non-standard video types. Have you ever tried editing HD in premiere, yuck does not work well. Have fun with windows and premiere and I'll be laughing at you at the film festival when I win and your film is not even finished because you had windows and premiere and I have Final Cut Pro, the standard now in the entertainment industry.

Did you read the post above yours?

[mikeinternet]

I'm tired of trying to defend macs. Everyone should use windows. PC hardware is cheap.

so can anyone answer my question

"can you even hardsub ssa/ass/srt subtitles into an avi using OSX? It's a simple question"

if Macs were so good for video editing, surely it should be possible right, right??

I did it with a copy of Battle Royale 2 yesterday. 1 AVI 1 SRT. Quicktime Pro with Perian compnents. Export to m4v for my apple tv or iphone.

[NT1440]

I did it with a copy of Battle Royale 2 yesterday. 1 AVI 1 SRT. Quicktime Pro with Perian compnents. Export to m4v for my apple tv or iphone.

Well there we go...

[iamcdn28]

+3847928734972938749872893749

Reminds me of the threads where "pro photographers" were mad cause they wanted a laptop without a glossy screen. Really? Color critical work on a laptop? You can't be that much of a pro...

Except pro video editors are not pro photographers. The editors I support don't care about the glossy screen especially since they like to edit in the dark.

[iamcdn28]

But like I said why would she want to install a third party one when Macs are all about "it just works". Also you do realise it's not only the OS that needs RAM. OMG Mac hardware is the best. Apple is NOT overpriced, but just in case buy the base setup and go to the third party for HD and RAM because they're cheaper. Funny. :D What happened to superior and non-overpriced hardware? If she asked Apple to upgrade her RAM, the machine would definitely be out of her budget.

So you buy an HP, Sony, Lenovo, Dell, etc... you don't go to the third parties to buy things cheaper? I know I do.

[mosx]

I love these ads. Microsoft needs to do more of them and directly attack Apple's (lack of) features and overall prices more directly.

I'm a MacBook owner. I have a UniBody MacBook. It was a replacement for two plastic MacBooks that failed due to Apple's poor build quality.

I also find the arguments put forth by the Apple apologists to be hilarious.

One of the arguments that fails but is used the most is "total cost of ownership". A Mac user trying to use this argument is just downright stupid.

With a Mac Pro or MacBook Pro, you're spending more than double what you would on an equal PC. With the Mac Pro, you can build something with several times more GPU processing power and about 95% of the CPU power for around $800. With a MacBook Pro you can get a PC with the same processor, bigger HDD, blu-ray, a GPU that is at least twice as fast, and standard features like HDMI and card readers for half the cost. When you compare the iMac to PC desktops, there is no comparison. You can buy a better screen plus use actual DESKTOP components and get much more power for several hundred dollars less. I mean, look at the iMac. It's a laptop on a stand. You have to spend $1799 to get dedicated graphics. A $900 PC tower can have a Core i7 and at least a GeForce 9800 GT. Look at the MacBook. That system I compared to the MacBook Pro a few lines up is priced at $1299, same as the UniBody MacBook. Why even buy a MacBook? If you want a 13.3" screen, Dell's Studio XPS 13 offers dual GPUs running in hybrid SLI, an LED screen, 4GB of RAM, and a 7200RPM 320GB HDD for about the same price as the entry UniBody MacBook. It also has a 2.4GHz processor. Look at the Mac mini. $600 gets me 1GB of RAM and a notebook Core 2 Duo at 2GHz with a GeForce 9400M? $600 in the PC world will get me quad core, 4GB at least, and a good GPU.

There are other aspects to the "total cost of ownership" argument Apple fans like to make. One being anti-virus software. First of all, good AV software is free. Secondly, you have to be pretty stupid to get infected these days. IE and Firefox both guard against malware actively, and will give you multiple warnings and try to stop you from downloading malware at every step. Then Windows itself will attempt to stop you from installing and running it. So that part is bunk.

Then people like to go on to the software aspect. Apple apologists like to point out that Macs come with iLife. Well, I just recently reinstalled OS X to remove all of iLife except iPhoto. iLife is the ultimate in bloatware. By reinstalling OS X without iLife installed I have about 10GB more of free space, even though iLife only requires 6GB to be installed. The iLife suite is useless for most people, and iMovie is only good if you want to do Youtube or Mobile Me clips. It's no longer any good for producing actual movies that would be good enough to burn to DVD, which is still what most people want. Even iMovie's newest and most impressive feature, image stabilization, is a gimmick. All it does is zoom up on the picture. So you have to decide between having a full resolution shaky image or a lower quality still image.

Freeware is almost non-existant on a Mac as well. Aside from VLC, Perian, and Adium, what decent freeware is there? Nearly every piece of software wants you to pony up $5, $10, $15 to fully unlock it. On Windows theres a whole world of freeware thats nearly as or as good as the paid stuff. With Windows, you can get by entirely on freeware.

Another aspect to the "total cost of ownership" argument would be warranty and service. Apple is known for not covering basic build quality issues, just ask the first gen MacBook Air owners about their hinge problems. Apple offers NO damage coverage. With a prebuilt PC, the manufacturer will offer warranties that cost about the same as AppleCare that cover accidental and liquid damage. Apple doesn't do this. AppleCare isn't even available for phone support 24/7. And if you're like me, and they replaced your screen with a defective one, you have to drive 75 miles to your closest Apple Store to prove its defective and get a replacement!

Now that the "total cost of ownership" argument is completely and utterly dead, let's go back to the commercial.

In this commercial she gets an HP HDX system. That means for about half the cost of the MacBook Pro she got a slightly faster GPU, the possibility of blu-ray, a bigger HDD, card readers, HDMI, and all of that good stuff.

Sure, the screen resolution MIGHT be 1366x768. It could be 1920x1080 as well, we don't know what specific model she got. However, 1366x768 is a true 16x9 resolution. Which means even though it is slightly lower than the 1440x900 screen on the MacBook Pro, its not the out an out of proportion 16x10 screen. It's a proper 16x9 screen which is perfect for video. And since it will have standard features like HDMI, she can connect it to any modern display (HDTV, computer monitor) without having to use a mess of expensive adapters and cables.

Some people mention "Windows Movie Maker" as the software Vista comes with. That is true. However, unlike a Mac, you're not stuck with only the pack-in software to choose from. It's extremely likely she already has the software she wants. Or she can buy the software she wants and still come in at saving money compared to buying a MacBook Pro.

The best part of the commercial is the comment about the amount of RAM the MacBook Pro comes with. It's true. Apple's computers tend to come with 1/4 (Mac mini) to 1/2 as much memory as PCs do. Some argue that its because OS X is more efficient. That's just a load of BS that you can smell from a mile away. I've been using OS X for years now, as well as Windows for even longer. Windows runs much better on the same hardware, and Leopard is every bit as "bloated" as Vista is.

In the end, Microsoft needs to keep these ads up. It shows what a ripoff Macs are and how you can get much better for half the money by going with a PC.

And to anyone who says Microsoft is "scared", keep in mind that Apple's worldwide market share is only at about 3.5%, Microsoft's is at about 90%. You think about that ;)

[TitoC]

so can anyone answer my question

"can you even hardsub ssa/ass/srt subtitles into an avi using OSX? It's a simple question"

if Macs were so good for video editing, surely it should be possible right, right??

uuuh . . yeah. I did a movie 2 days ago. And nothing too complicated. Quicktime with Perian components. Pretty easy actually. Did it for 4 languages into AVI and several other formats. Looks like it was hurting your head some though. You alright?

I know you just joined a few days ago to bash everyone here at this "Fanboy" site, but some of us are not JUST Mac users. Some of use Unix, PCs . . hell, I even use a Sun Microsystem desktop using Solaris for certain things. But that doesn't mean we are FANBOYS (or Fanboys only) and that also doesn't mean you have to take such a nasty attitude with all your comments towards everyone else. I know we will all miss you when you leave us to go back to your Microsoft forums.

[Aldaris]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

I'm a video producer, I use a desktop PowerMac G4 (last revision), PowerBook G4, new uni MacBook Pro, all are used in my production house- all have different needs, although most final products are brought together via the PowerMac. It's great to be able to edit pieces on the go. So I think it's valid for any video pro to have a MacBook Pro and use it- I think you'll also find most "pro's" use more than one editing machine.

They are really trying hard. I guess we apple heads can't blame them for trying.

I'm a real producer and I am a mac.

(and for all the nay-sayers my G4, ain't close to a macpro, but still gets my projects done on time, even with HD support-but I'll soon get a maxed macpro).

[Speedy2]

I love these ads. Microsoft needs to do more of them and directly attack Apple's (lack of) features and overall prices more directly.



Ha ha!
You will get a lot of response for that one :)

About 50% of your points are valid and 50% are pretty much ********.
The perfect flamebait.

[Eidorian]

mosx the freeware scene isn't that bad under OS X. I've found that most good freeware is going to run on Windows/OS X/Linux regardless. With a few tweaks to the GUI kits you're getting the same thing.

Good post otherwise but it has a wall of text feeling.

[Mac21ND]

So is she cutting her video with Windows Movie Maker for YouTube? Geesh.

Like others have said, you really have to stretch to try to justify buying a windows laptop for video editing; especially with a 2 grand budget.

The video pro's I work with wouldn't be caught dead with a windows laptop. They're all using some model of Mac Pro with at least a 23 inch screen. They have different mac laptops (a powerbook, macbook pro, etc;) for portable needs; but the real cutting with Final Cut, Motion, etc; is a desktop job.

[jettredmont]

I absolutely love how the fanboys bash pc laptops for plastic cases when not too long ago everyone was happy with the white and black plastic macbook. They must have been absolute **** too, huh?

Yes, they were. Hence the 'Pro' line with it's metal construction.

At the same time: comparing the black MacBook my wife has to a number of HP and Dell plasti-books reveals that not all plastics were created equal. The MacBooks, even when plastic, were solid and far from "cheap" feeling, unlike the HPs and Dells of the world.

[Guiton]

i don't think graphics card plays an important role in video editing, am i wrong ?

[jettredmont]

so can anyone answer my question

"can you even hardsub ssa/ass/srt subtitles into an avi using OSX? It's a simple question"

if Macs were so good for video editing, surely it should be possible right, right??

Not having had to deal with AVI files or hard subtitles, I can't answer your question. I assume from the jack*ssy way you are asking that you have already determined Final Cut Pro does not do this out of the box?

("OSX" doesn't do that, of course, any more than "Windows" will do that ... the *application* you run might do it though).

[sesnir]

Heh that'd be funny if someone discovered that these ads were made on macs...

[NT1440]

Heh that'd be funny if someone discovered that these ads were made on macs...

Werent some of the other MS ads?

[DYER]

+3847928734972938749872893749

Reminds me of the threads where "pro photographers" were mad cause they wanted a laptop without a glossy screen. Really? Color critical work on a laptop? You can't be that much of a pro...

In fairness no colour critical work is not possible whithout a decently calibrated external but a laptop still has its uses.. I use mine for ALL my editing but do use a screen when doing stuff I am getting paid for... But for photos there is nothing wrong with using a laptop... other than the screen ^^ :cool:

[dewser35]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APQv8JTKM9A

i just built the hp online with these specs
64 bit Vista - SP1
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo Processor T9550 (2.66 GHz)
4GB DDR2
320GB 7200rpm SATA
1GB nVidia GT130M
Blu-ray drive
webcam + fingerprint reader
wireless - n

for $1785

pretty good value for money.

She's a PC, an artist AND she fell from the top of the ugly tree and hit EVERY branch on the way down! To quote the famous John Candy (Uncle Buck), "Take this quarter, go downtown, and have a rat gnaw that thing off your face! Good day to you, madam."

[stewy]

I'm a recent Apple convert... at work I am forced to use a Dell which admittedly is a few years old now... maybe a 1.4 or 1.6 ghz machine.

Every time that GD computer becomes unresponsive and I have to hit Control Alt Delete open the task manager and kill the mcafee processes just so the computer becomes usable again it makes me happy to have made the choice I have.

[ajmetz]

That woman is worryingly unattractive. If you accept her as having an unfeminine aesthetic, and more a tomboy image, then don't put her in a skirt - it just doesn't suit her. Next, she claims to be an artist, but shows no artistic traits. Thirdly, video editing is all about the software as a previous poster said - Avid, Media100, Final Cut Pro, Premiere or Vegas. The Pro apps are Avid (PC or Mac), Media100 (Mac), Final Cut Pro (Mac). Premier is borderline (PC and Mac) useful for After Effects and Photoshop integration, etc, and I know a few people who enjoy using Vegas (PC). I was surprised by the 2MB RAM criticism, as I thought 4MB was standard, since that's what came with my MacBook Pro.
These ads are painful to watch - especially as I've seen the trouble people have when they get their laptops home and try and use 'em. That said, I'm not an exclusive Mac fan - I love Windows 98, and prefer PCs for typing, web design, and desktop publishing. I use Macs for music and video editing. There are also plenty of annoyances and oversights in Leopard, but....these adverts are painful to watch.
Still - the audience is unlikely to be pro video editors. It just has to give the gist that PCs offer better value for money (and as far as hardware alone goes, they do). But I wonder if the way they linger on the MacBook in particular during each of these adverts, and point out a really weak criticism, is gonna work against them? If I were Microsoft, Apple wouldn't be in my ads.
That said, if Apple weren't in them, we wouldn't all be watching them online, and talking about them. =P

[Treq]

LOL! Video editing on a PC? Even the people who make Windows commercials don't do that. You are a PC and you just bought the wrong computer.

[NoSmokingBandit]

She's a PC, an artist AND she fell from the top of the ugly tree and hit EVERY branch on the way down! To quote the famous John Candy (Uncle Buck), "Take this quarter, go downtown, and have a rat gnaw that thing off your face! Good day to you, madam."
...and how is this relevant? Are only models allowed to own macs?

Good god, the fanboyism here is just atrocious.

[Adrian3300]

Yeah a "serious" film maker is going to use a PC and a laptop at that for video editing. Do they not know that the industry standard is Final Cut Pro

[NT1440]

...and how is this relevant? Are only models allowed to own macs?

Good god, the fanboyism here is just atrocious.
First off, thats just people being jerks online because they can, it has nothing to do with owning a mac.

Second, those comments dont relate to fanboyism at all, as much as youd like them to.

[tomguy]

It's interesting how everyone of these commercials were filmed in Orange County, California.

The Best Buy stores I noticed were the ones in South Coast Plaza, Costa Mesa, CA.

The latest ad is at Fry's Electronics at Fountain Valley, CA.

I am bit confused over the various locations it was filmed. The latest ad shows the woman at South Coast Plaza, then she proceeds to Fry's in Fountain Valley, and then back to South Coast in the evening.

[NT1440]

It's interesting how everyone of these commercials were filmed in Orange County, California.

The Best Buy stores I noticed were the ones in South Coast Plaza, Costa Mesa, CA.

The latest ad is at Fry's Electronics at Fountain Valley, CA.

I am bit confused over the various locations it was filmed. The latest ad shows the woman at South Coast Plaza, then she proceeds to Fry's in Fountain Valley, and then back to South Coast in the evening.

Maybe thats why it takes all day?

[Jimmetry]

Ok, the ad is pathetic, Macs are awesome, bla bla bla totally agree.

But this ad has one (and ONLY one) good point. The MacBook Pro is an expensive computer, and expensive computers come with 4GB of RAM. You can argue that it will do as well as a PC with 4GB but that doesn't mean it will be as good as it should be.

Apple should upgrade the minimum RAM of the Pro machines. Simple as that.

[mikeinternet]

Not having had to deal with AVI files or hard subtitles, I can't answer your question. I assume from the jack*ssy way you are asking that you have already determined Final Cut Pro does not do this out of the box?

("OSX" doesn't do that, of course, any more than "Windows" will do that ... the *application* you run might do it though).

OS X does do it. At least Quicktime Pro with Perian Components.

[Jimmetry]

so can anyone answer my question

"can you even hardsub ssa/ass/srt subtitles into an avi using OSX? It's a simple question"

if Macs were so good for video editing, surely it should be possible right, right??

Uh, the reason it's not supported is because only backwards tards do it. Subtitles are not meant to be hard coded into the video.

Edit:
I suppose it would be relevant if you were uploading a video in another language to YouTube.
In that case, here's your answer: http://homepage.mac.com/major4/dvd_sub.html

[BMWFan]

That woman is worryingly unattractive. If you accept her as having an unfeminine aesthetic, and more a tomboy image, then don't put her in a skirt - it just doesn't suit her. Next, she claims to be an artist, but shows no artistic traits. Thirdly, video editing is all about the software as a previous poster said - Avid, Media100, Final Cut Pro, Premiere or Vegas. The Pro apps are Avid (PC or Mac), Media100 (Mac), Final Cut Pro (Mac). Premier is borderline (PC and Mac) useful for After Effects and Photoshop integration, etc, and I know a few people who enjoy using Vegas (PC). I was surprised by the 2MB RAM criticism, as I thought 4MB was standard, since that's what came with my MacBook Pro.
These ads are painful to watch - especially as I've seen the trouble people have when they get their laptops home and try and use 'em. That said, I'm not an exclusive Mac fan - I love Windows 98, and prefer PCs for typing, web design, and desktop publishing. I use Macs for music and video editing. There are also plenty of annoyances and oversights in Leopard, but....these adverts are painful to watch.
Still - the audience is unlikely to be pro video editors. It just has to give the gist that PCs offer better value for money (and as far as hardware alone goes, they do). But I wonder if the way they linger on the MacBook in particular during each of these adverts, and point out a really weak criticism, is gonna work against them? If I were Microsoft, Apple wouldn't be in my ads.
That said, if Apple weren't in them, we wouldn't all be watching them online, and talking about them. =P
She's a PC, an artist AND she fell from the top of the ugly tree and hit EVERY branch on the way down! To quote the famous John Candy (Uncle Buck), "Take this quarter, go downtown, and have a rat gnaw that thing off your face! Good day to you, madam."


Further proof that all Apple fanboys care about is looks.

Uh, the reason it's not supported is because only backwards tards do it. Subtitles are not meant to be hard coded into the video.

Edit:
I suppose it would be relevant if you were uploading a video in another language to YouTube.
In that case, here's your answer: http://homepage.mac.com/major4/dvd_sub.html

What about ssa/ass subtitle files? These are very popular in the anime fansub community. Will fansubbers be able to hardsub them onto avi for distrubution?

[bedifferent]

I find it incredibly amusing that a Windows "fanboi" (GOD I hate that term) joined Macrumors last month in order to troll the threads by insulting Apple users. Even more amusing is that BMWFan sent in the information regarding the new commercial that started this thread. Even MORE amusing is BMWFan's attempt at looking down on the "snobbery" of Apple appreciators who apparently only buy "over priced" and "pretty stuff" when their user name is "BMWFan" (why not a Toyota or Nissan fan? They do their job as luxury automobiles and cost thousands less).

As I have been reading Macrumors for a few years I have read the threads in which commentators have brought the comments of these recent Microsoft ads to a head spinning 3,000+. Needless to say, there were quite a few new members to Macrumors that dominated that discussion.

This debate has gone on for ages and hasn't changed one bit. In the end, I'll simply reference this lovely clip from YouTube. Enjoy. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgriTO8UHvs

[dohardthings]

i don't think graphics card plays an important role in video editing, am i wrong ?

with a properly written program and an OS that will let it work it can cut rendering times multiple times

[powers74]

My favorite part was:

“Is this graphics card going to be powerful?”
“Mmhm.”
“Wow.”

...


Good Blog posts. Though, I admit I fall into the WF slot.

[Pika]

Ok, the ad is pathetic, Macs are awesome, bla bla bla totally agree.

But this ad has one (and ONLY one) good point. The MacBook Pro is an expensive computer, and expensive computers come with 4GB of RAM. You can argue that it will do as well as a PC with 4GB but that doesn't mean it will be as good as it should be.

Apple should upgrade the minimum RAM of the Pro machines. Simple as that.Mac OS X's memory management doesn't suck like Vista.... 2GB RAM on OS X feels like 8GB RAM on Windows Vista.

[Michael CM1]

Ok, the ad is pathetic, Macs are awesome, bla bla bla totally agree.

But this ad has one (and ONLY one) good point. The MacBook Pro is an expensive computer, and expensive computers come with 4GB of RAM. You can argue that it will do as well as a PC with 4GB but that doesn't mean it will be as good as it should be.

Apple should upgrade the minimum RAM of the Pro machines. Simple as that.

Apple went with newer RAM (DDR3) instead of older stuff (DDR2). I don't see any problem with the stock unit coming with 2GB. NOTHING I do is limited by RAM. The processor (2.16Ghz C2D) and video card are more drawbacks than RAM, although they haven't caused any problems. Games are coming to the point where they require what I have for a video card, and Handbrake will use every ounce of CPU power you have. I have 3GB of RAM, and it rarely comes close to using 2GB.

Oh yeah, my computer doesn't take a forklift to carry.

[mkoval11]

What idiot is a film maker who does not use Final Cut Pro. Oh, I guess the ones who use Windows Video Maker. Congratulations, and I can't wait until you win a Oscar. I won't hold my breath. Why are people so stupid? I guess they are getting paid to be that way.

Look you get what you pay for. Good, no great things cost money and 99 times out of a 100 they are worth it. Buy a Timex for $20 and you get a POS, but it still tells time. Buy a Rolex for $8,500 and you have a watch that will last generations. Mac's are not plastic hunks of disposable litter. They are engineered for performance and durability. Buy want you want but buy crap and you'll buy twice.

I agree with you. These ads are a joke that has next to no substance. Microsoft should be ashamed. What in Gods name are they thinking but what can you expect from a company that released BOB, Windows ME and Vista. Need I say more...


Ok, the ad is pathetic, Macs are awesome, bla bla bla totally agree.

But this ad has one (and ONLY one) good point. The MacBook Pro is an expensive computer, and expensive computers come with 4GB of RAM. You can argue that it will do as well as a PC with 4GB but that doesn't mean it will be as good as it should be.

Apple should upgrade the minimum RAM of the Pro machines. Simple as that.

[NoSmokingBandit]

Look you get what you pay for. Good, no great things cost money and 99 times out of a 100 they are worth it. Buy a Timex for $20 and you get a POS, but it still tells time. Buy a Rolex for $8,500 and you have a watch that will last generations. Mac's are not plastic hunks of disposable litter. They are engineered for performance and durability. Buy want you want but buy crap and you'll buy twice.


So you are saying it makes more sense, financially, to buy one $8000 watch instead of two $20 watches?

[bretm]

No, but if you want the MBP to "it just works as good as PC with 4GB RAM" in RAM intensive tasks like Audio/Video editing, you'd want to upgrade the RAM. With 2GB, it's more like "it just about about works".

YOU DONT NEED 4gb of ram!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm a pro. I use 3gigs to run as many apps as I want at the same time. That generally includes FCP, AE, PS, word, mail and safari. I might have dreamweaver open and be uploading via FTP while checking mail, surfing, and rendering animation. Trust me. It just works. All this on a 2 year old mac pro with 3 gig of Ram. Go try that on your 2 year old of with vista. Good freakin luck. Oh, wait, you don't have FCP. Well throw in PREMIERE instead. Let me know how it goes.

[bretm]

Yeah a "serious" film maker is going to use a PC and a laptop at that for video editing. Do they not know that the industry standard is Final Cut Pro

I'm an FCP editor. I'm sorry man but all your buddies and corporate editing shops are fc, but the industry kid still owned by AVID.

[Pika]

So you are saying it makes more sense, financially, to buy one $8000 watch instead of two $20 watches?

If it's made of gold and diamond and it's a well know brand then... Yes! because the value of those precious stones and the brand reputation is going up! I expect the watch will value $10000 in the future if you resell it!

The 2 brandless cheapo $20 watch will loose it's value in just one year. Worth nothing for the future.

[Pika]

I'm an FCP editor. I'm sorry man but all your buddies and corporate editing shops are fc, but the industry kid still owned by AVID.

Avid is a cross-platform. Also available for the Mac OS X.

[Jimmetry]

Mac OS X's memory management doesn't suck like Vista.... 2GB RAM on OS X feels like 8GB RAM on Windows Vista.

Yes, the memory management is much better, but 2GB of uncompressed video frames is 2GB of uncompressed video frames and RAM beats swap files. It's a pro machine, not an almost pro machine.

And with all the 'RAM is only $50 :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:' in this thread you'd think that just maybe someone would agree that Apple could spare the $20 they'd pay for it to get rid of pretty much the only defect with the label.

[Eidorian]

I find it incredibly amusing that a Windows "fanboi" (GOD I hate that term) joined Macrumors last month in order to troll the threads by insulting Apple users. Even more amusing is that BMWFan sent in the information regarding the new commercial that started this thread. Even MORE amusing is BMWFan's attempt at looking down on the "snobbery" of Apple appreciators who apparently only buy "over priced" and "pretty stuff" when their user name is "BMWFan" (why not a Toyota or Nissan fan? They do their job as luxury automobiles and cost thousands less).

As I have been reading Macrumors for a few years I have read the threads in which commentators have brought the comments of these recent Microsoft ads to a head spinning 3,000+. Needless to say, there were quite a few new members to Macrumors that dominated that discussion.

This debate has gone on for ages and hasn't changed one bit. In the end, I'll simply reference this lovely clip from YouTube. Enjoy.I started the previous laptop hunter ad thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=683770). I don't think that you should judge someone by their join date.

Mac OS X's memory management doesn't suck like Vista.... 2GB RAM on OS X feels like 8GB RAM on Windows Vista.Can you elaborate on this?

Apple went with newer RAM (DDR3) instead of older stuff (DDR2). I don't see any problem with the stock unit coming with 2GB. NOTHING I do is limited by RAM. The processor (2.16Ghz C2D) and video card are more drawbacks than RAM, although they haven't caused any problems. Games are coming to the point where they require what I have for a video card, and Handbrake will use every ounce of CPU power you have. I have 3GB of RAM, and it rarely comes close to using 2GB.

Oh yeah, my computer doesn't take a forklift to carry.

YOU DONT NEED 4gb of ram!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm a pro. I use 3gigs to run as many apps as I want at the same time. That generally includes FCP, AE, PS, word, mail and safari. I might have dreamweaver open and be uploading via FTP while checking mail, surfing, and rendering animation. Trust me. It just works. All this on a 2 year old mac pro with 3 gig of Ram. Go try that on your 2 year old of with vista. Good freakin luck. Oh, wait, you don't have FCP. Well throw in PREMIERE instead. Let me know how it goes.What's with this strange desire to defend Apple's subpar hardware specifications? You get can get machines at half the price with twice the RAM and hard drive capacity. It's rather annoying on top of the sticker price to have to buy additional RAM and a larger hard drive because Apple thought 1 GB of RAM and a 120 GB is enough. I don't want to be upsold by Apple because they've crippled a lower priced model.

In before Vista needs twice the RAM, etc. to run like OS X. I'm serious.

[Jimmetry]

What about ssa/ass subtitle files? These are very popular in the anime fansub community. Will fansubbers be able to hardsub them onto avi for distrubution?

That's really your argument? Think about what you're saying.

Google: convert ssa to srt mac
Second Result: http://forum.videohelp.com/topic349909.html
First Reply: http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Jubler

Don't ever believe there's anything a PC can do that a Mac can't (except when it comes to high-end gaming). Apple has a very significant user base and Macs are very popular among developers. On top of that, it's pretty easy to port things from Linux to OSX. Everything exists, so don't give me this semen load of "THEN WHY CAN'T MY MAC DO THIS?!"

[dsnort]

I recently toyed with the idea of buying a PC laptop for work and installing Ubuntu Linux on it. This was based entirely on price, the PC would have been cheaper.

However, after a trip to my local Best Buy where I could see the two comps side by side, I bought the Uni-body MBP.

I never thought the way a comp looked would matter to me, but there was just no comparison.

The PC's are attractive, in the way a crack whore with a ton of make up is attractive in the right light, after a case or two of beer!

The MBP is just beautiful. It's a Mona Lisa in a crowd of circus clowns!

Add in the extra functionality of Mac OS X, and PC's just can't get cheap enough, IMO.

[sammich]

Speaking of overpriced things: in the 2nd last scene when she's walking from the store; she walks past a lovely 6 series (650i?) soft-top. Surely there is some connection there.

[Jimmetry]

Can you elaborate on this?


I will. In a direct sense, it's about swapping the right pages from the hard drive and predictive caching. In an indirect sense, it's about having clean frameworks so every developer doesn't have to reinvent the wheel, having a consistent set of libraries that aren't destroyed by bad paradigms and eroded oversecrecy, offloading procedures to the graphics processor, properly prioritising tasks and isolating errors. You might have noticed that Windows Task Manager can't always close processes... that's because things aren't isolated properly. Apps are dependent on libraries completely irrelevant to anything the program does.

Edit:
With regards to "offloading procedures to the graphics processor"... please don't tell me OpenCL hasn't been released yet. Everything drawn to the screen is done with OpenGL, in Windows it is not. Yes, Vista uses DirectX, but because they spent an extra 7 years in last century, very few applications benefit from it. It's an *extra* layer of mess. This is why Windows 7 will have an XP virtual machine compatibility layer something-or-other.

[Eidorian]

I will. In a direct sense, it's about swapping the right pages from the hard drive and predictive caching. In an indirect sense, it's about having clean frameworks so every developer doesn't have to reinvent the wheel, having a consistent set of libraries that aren't destroyed by bad paradigms and eroded oversecrecy, offloading procedures to the graphics processor, properly prioritising tasks and isolating errors. You might have noticed that Windows Task Manager can't always close processes... that's because things aren't isolated properly. Apps are dependent on libraries completely irrelevant to anything the program does.I'm surprised that someone came up with a reasonably intelligent response. I find your statements about the libraries a little more applicable to OS X though.

Edit:
With regards to "offloading procedures to the graphics processor"... please don't tell me OpenCL hasn't been released yet. Everything drawn to the screen is done with OpenGL, in Windows it is not. Yes, Vista uses DirectX, but because they spent an extra 7 years in last century, very few applications benefit from it. It's an *extra* layer of mess. This is why Windows 7 will have an XP virtual machine compatibility layer something-or-other.I do enjoy how OS X handles rendering over Windows, even Vista, but what does this have to do with memory management again?

[Xials]

But like I said why would she want to install a third party one when Macs are all about "it just works". Also you do realise it's not only the OS that needs RAM. OMG Mac hardware is the best. Apple is NOT overpriced, but just in case buy the base setup and go to the third party for HD and RAM because they're cheaper. Funny. :D What happened to superior and non-overpriced hardware? If she asked Apple to upgrade her RAM, the machine would definitely be out of her budget.
I don't think anybody every said "it just works... after you install 3rd party ram" I think they said "it just works" the point you seem to be missing here is that you don't need to upgrade to 4GB of ram, but you can if you want to and since it is only $50 more, it shouldn't be the deal breaker.
Lets look at some other specs...

the HP weighs in at 7.06 lbs... vs. the MacBook Pro 5.5... sounds like a win for mac, and yes a feature that is worth money to people who think for usability rather than specs.

then the 12 cell battery.. hangs off the back, and the whole computer has an EPEAT Silver rating, and they won't even list expected battery life cause it sucks.

the Display resolution a 16" with 1366x768... what a freaking piece of junk.. the MacBook Pro, 15" smaller lighter but higher res screen 1440x900.. and yes you can get the 1920x1080 but if you have ever used it, the res is almost too small to read on a 17" let alone a 16" not to mention being standard TFT, not LED... what does that mean, takes forever to warm up, and is not very consistent in to process. yes, even the macbook pro is not a desktop, but if you are going to edit, you want the best looking you can get.
what you PC people don't understand, is that there is more to the value of a computer than just a number, or a phrase, but it's the little things that make a huge difference. the average person will not notice the difference between processor speeds, ram, or 200 ports on a portable that never ever get used. they will notcie how nice that photo looks, how crisp it looks, how it works, how they can carry it all day without having to go to the chiropractor later. And you PC freaks also don't understand that not everyone is tech savvy enough to deal with a computer that breaks cause it's a piece of junk. And they also like that if it does break there is someone in town that can fix it, and they don't have to mail it back to HP. it's like the difference between a $20 hooker, and one that's $1000.. you get the same thing done, but the $1000 one is more fun, and you have a lot less chance of getting a deadly virus!:)

[joeshell383]

Some of the posts on this thread are disgusting.

First, I expected the usual SJ RDF posts, even though this ad campaign hits Apple right where it hurts and does a great job doing so. When Apple omits or exaggerates things in its ads barely a peep is heard, but when Microsoft just tells the facts all the excuses come out. Also, any/all reasoning skills seem to fly out the window when it comes to defending Apple.... the need-less-RAM argument is poor, and the third-party RAM upgrade argument is even worse... it's not $50 more, it is $50+ the difference between the base MBP and the price she actually paid for her system (she didn't pay exactly $1999, she paid less). Hardware is one of the most objective things to compare and yet some of the people (I try not to generalize) on this thread still seem to think that MS is being unfair.
MS is being MORE than fair. MS didn't even mention how she wouldn't be able to transfer/burn her HD movies onto a sufficient optical disc/format, display her HD movies on a standard HDTV set without YET another adapter, etc...... on a Mac.

Second, so many of the posters think they're hot **** on this board. What kind of artist does this? What kind of artist could she be if she wants a laptop? Blah blah blah. She likely does the same work as MOST MAC CREATIVE PROFESSIONALS which IS NOT EDITING HOLLYWOOD FILMS, BUT INSTEAD WORKING ON SHORT INDEPENDENT PROJECTS OR LOCALLY-BASED FREELANCE WORK. AND NO, SHE PROBABLY DOESN'T USE WMM, JUST LIKE MOST MAC PROSUMERS WOULDN'T USE iMOVIE.

Third, of course only the pros will be mentioned, and the cons will be disregarded, it IS A SPONSORED AD, not an independent review. In business it is important to internally acknowledge the strengths of competitors, while (usually) exterally portraying competitors and competing products in a negative light. Again, don't hear much when Apple MARKETS ITS PRODUCTS.

But I expected all of the above, I've been here long enough to know the strength of the fanboyism and lack of objectivity and business sense, and unwarranted, unjustified "scrutiny". What I didn't expect, and this is what I found to be repulsive, was for people to actually comment on the woman's appearance as if that means or tells anything whatsoever. And based on what I've seen in the MacRumors member photo section, it REALLY seems that most posters on MR should refrain from such baseless commentary.

[Jimmetry]

I'm surprised that someone came up with a reasonably intelligent response. I find your statements about the libraries a little more applicable to OS X though.

Not at all. For the iPhone, yes, but that's because behind the scenes it's still incomplete.

I do enjoy how OS X handles rendering over Windows, even Vista, but what does this have to do with memory management again?

Because it means that everything is stored in system memory rather than graphics memory, which I assume means you're going to do a lot more page swapping. Not too clear on the details of all that though...

[HONDAxACURA]

It's OK... She'll learn in a year when her PC breaks down.

[Eidorian]

Not at all. For the iPhone, yes, but that's because behind the scenes it's still incomplete.I'm surprised you don't hear groans at WWDC when Apple has decided to reinvent the wheel, again.

Because it means that everything is stored in system memory rather than graphics memory, which I assume means you're going to do a lot more page swapping. Not too clear on the details of all that though...Once again can you explain the relation? You make it sound like the Windows GDI/+ never used the GPU at all for anything.

[Xials]

Some of the posts on this thread are disgusting.

First, I expected the usual SJ RDF posts, even though this ad campaign hits Apple right where it hurts and does a great job doing so. When Apple omits or exaggerates things in its ads barely a peep is heard, but when Microsoft just tells the facts all the excuses come out. Also, any/all reasoning skills seem to fly out the window when it comes to defending Apple.... the RAM argument is poor, and the RAM upgrade argument is even worse... it's not $50 more, it is $50+ the difference between the base MBP and the price she actually paid for her system (she didn't pay exactly $1999, she paid less). Hardware is one of the most objective things to compare and yet some of the people (I try not to generalize) on this thread still seem to think that MS is being unfair.
MS is being MORE than fair. MS didn't even mention how she wouldn't be able to transfer/burn her HD movies onto a sufficient optical disc/format, display her HD movies on a standard HDTV set without YET another adapter, etc...... on a Mac.

Second, so many of the posters think they're hot **** on this board. What kind of artist does this? What kind of artist could she be if she wants a laptop? Blah blah blah. She likely does the same work as MOST MAC CREATIVE PROFESSIONALS which IS NOT EDITING HOLLYWOOD FILMS, BUT INSTEAD WORKING ON SHORT INDEPENDENT PROJECTS OR LOCALLY-BASED FREELANCE WORK. AND NO, SHE PROBABLY DOESN'T USE WMM, JUST LIKE MOST MAC PROSUMERS WOULDN'T USE iMOVIE.

Third, of course only the pros will be mentioned, and the cons will be disregarded, it IS A SPONSORED AD, not an independent review. In business it is important to internally acknowledge the strengths of competitors, while (usually) exterally portraying competitors and competing products in a negative light. Again, don't hear much when Apple MARKETS ITS PRODUCTS.

But I expected all of the above, I've been here long enough to know the strength of the fanboyism and lack of objectivity and business sense, and unwarranted, unjustified "scrutiny". What I didn't expect, and this is what I found to be repulsive, was for people to actually comment on the woman's appearance as if that means or tells anything whatsoever. And based on what I've seen in the MacRumors member photo section, it REALLY seems that most posters on MR should refrain from such baseless commentary.

you know you think everyone's fan boys cause they love macs on here... we have no reason to speak to much else.. If I was on CNET maybe I would be more professional. But if you want to argue if Macs make good business sense we could go off true cost of ownership, firing your IT dep. in favor of a guy who comes once a month to check up on your stuff, unlimited user licenses for servers without extra cost... there are more
While it may be true that there are many fan boys on here, it does not mean they are all wrong... you know some became that way because they used something called a brain, and they think of more than just what the PC fanboys told them to look for.

[Bloomedis]

"fast processor, big screen..."
...
"...but it's also not too big!"

..What?

[Slurpy2k8]

You know what blows my mind about all these ads, other than their inane stupidity?

The fact that they're Microsoft ads, where they're supposed to be advertising WINDOWS and the OS is never even a FACTOR in any of these ads. The entire reason of Apple's existence is because of their software. Hardware is a secondary thing. Yet these ads are solely about the cheapest possible hardware that fulfills random bullet points that are convenient. Guess what? Some PC will ALWAYS be able to beat out a mac with that ridiculous comparison.

These ads are so incredibly intellectually dishonest. Instead of arguing the merits of Windows over OSX, its down to advertising for HP, etc. Pretty damn pointless. At least mac ads attempt to point out differences between the 2 Operating systems (as well as not pretending to be candid 'home video' footage, which is extremely insulting to the intelligence)

[Jimmetry]

I'm surprised you don't hear groans at WWDC when Apple has decided to reinvent the wheel, again.

Once again can you explain the relation? You make it sound like the Windows GDI/+ never used the GPU at all for anything.

Well GDI certainly didn't. GDI+ apparently has some capabilities, but due to the bloat that is .NET, it doesn't use these capabilities efficiently (quite the opposite, in fact.. you waste more memory and CPU cycles with a .NET app).

Edit:
The relation is page swapping. You need to do more of it if everything is stored in system memory. Page swapping is quite a heavy task.

It's always fun to watch Vista's page fault counter...

[Chappers]

Well I like the adverts. People rushing into a shop to buy something without doing any research - buy cheap - great fun. Love em.

[Norco]

There's one thing you can't accuse Microsoft of... and that's picking their actors based on looks.

I didn't see this mentioned in the thread, but what about re-sale value? Sure nobody buys a computer to keep its value just like a car, but its like comparing a used Japanese car to an American car -- when it's time to upgrade, at least it's worth more than how much gas is left in the tank.

[Eidorian]

Well GDI certainly didn't. GDI+ apparently has some capabilities, but due to the bloat that is .NET, it doesn't use these capabilities efficiently (quite the opposite, in fact.. you waste more memory and CPU cycles with a .NET app).Thank you. Your point has come across clearly.

There's still a small nag in the back of my mind that you started off talking about the compositing window managers though.

[Sehnsucht]

First ad: "PC users are broke."
Second ad: "PC users have no taste."
Third ad: "PC users are 11 years old and possibly hiding in the closet."
Fourth ad: "PC users are uncreative."

EPIC FAIL!

On the other hand, I know quite a few people, mostly coworkers (all Windows users in the 50, 60+ age category) who tell me that they think the "Get a Mac" ads are "cute" and "funny." They especially like the bewildered John Hodgman as the PC. If I were them, I would feel VERY insulted by these Windows ads. Here Microsoft is trying to reassure PC users that they are not broke, not uncreative, etc., but they end up giving that exact impression. How rude, Microsoft! :mad:

:cool:

[Eidorian]

First ad: "PC users are broke."
Second ad: "PC users have no taste."
Third ad: "PC users are 11 years old and possibly hiding in the closet."
Fourth ad: "PC users are uncreative."

EPIC FAIL!

On the other hand, I know quite a few people, mostly coworkers (all Windows users in the 50, 60+ age category) who tell me that they think the "Get a Mac" ads are "cute" and "funny." They especially like the bewildered John Hodgman as the PC. If I were them, I would feel VERY insulted by these Windows ads. Here Microsoft is trying to reassure PC users that they are not broke, not uncreative, etc., but they end up giving that exact impression. How rude, Microsoft! :mad:

:cool:I feel that Apple's ads insult my intelligence and that none of their points reflect why I bought a Mac.

That's just me though.

[Jimmetry]

I feel that Apple's ads insult my intelligence and that none of their points reflect why I bought a Mac.

I agree. Although I don't think they have the defect of trying to be something they're not.

[Eidorian]

I agree. Although I don't think they have the defect of trying to be something they're not.Apple and Microsoft are just being Apple and Microsoft. It's what I expect, sadly.

I just wish I didn't have to pay as much for my Macs or got more value for the price that I do pay for the hardware.

[MBAir]

M6 in the background, that's what grabbed my attention.

[sn00pie]

Yeah, definitely the worst ad so far. I think Microsoft are shooting themselves in the foot with this campaign. It started off well and caught the attention of the Apple community, but now they're just making themselves look bad.

Personally if Microsoft took more of a direct focus on aiming down Apple in their advertisements, they would be more successful, because right now they are throwing out a whole lot of mumbo jumbo with 5 seconds of Apple in the mix.

M6 in the background, that's what grabbed my attention.

hehe...me too

[casik]

hahahaHAHAHAHA

first of all if anyone is actually serious about video editing we all know the truth.

second of all if anyone is semi-serious about video editing we all know the truth.

thirdly what kinda deal to HP and Microsuck have going on here? Haven't all the commercials end in a HP purchase.

I can't explain how badly I want Apple to use the same people and make retaliation commercials about this.... I would wet my pants.

As for the Apple commercials they all seem to be about the offensive side while MS ones are all defensive... just a thought.

I would consider myself semi-pro and the only reason I would ever buy a PC to do editing is if I wanted a good excuse to be unproductive.

[sushi]

IMHO, this is the worst one of the three.

However, for the computer ignorant, it might work.

As some have already mentioned, it seems like HP and Microsoft are in this together. Maybe the next one the individual will settle on something besides an HP.

[dasikes]

If anyone's dumb enough to think a laptop is what they need for editing, and not a desktop, they might as well get a machine running vista.

[Vercingetorix]

But this ad has one (and ONLY one) good point. The MacBook Pro is an expensive computer, and expensive computers come with 4GB of RAM. You can argue that it will do as well as a PC with 4GB but that doesn't mean it will be as good as it should be..

This is THE point of the little anti-Mac snippet of the commercial. Any tech person who's ever been roped into helping a non-tech person buy a computer has seen how they obsess over the numbers -- RAM, disk space, and (at least a few years ago) processor speed -- in order to be sure that they're not getting ripped off. They don't even know what RAM is; they just know that this one has more and this one has less. And they should get 4 "gigs" of, uh, whatever, instead of 2.

This is the audience that the commercial's targeting. The whole message of this series is that Macs are all about flash over substance, and that you get more for your money by buying a PC. That's it. The target audience doesn't care that you can throw more memory in for $40 because they wouldn't even know what they were upgrading or why. They just know that 4 gigs of something is better than 2 gigs.

It doesn't matter what these people end up picking; the only thing that matters to Microsoft and its ad agency is the 8-10 seconds they spend considering and dismissing the Macs. That's the message. And that's why these are IMO pretty effective and damning commercials. Recession-wracked America doesn't give a crap whether OS X runs fine on 2 GBs or not; all they see is "two gigs versus four gigs" and it looks like a ripoff.

[Norco]

All Apple needs to do is make a commercial that goes something like this:

Here's Bob, he has a question about his computer. If he had a Mac, he could do this:

--walks into a Apple store, speaks to a Apple genius.

Now here he is if he bought a PC.

--on hold to get some guy in India trying to walk him through steps.


With Apple's success with their stores, they need to continue to advertise the fact that you can talk to someone face to face about your problems. That's very unique given today's trend of outsourcing.

[Sehnsucht]

I feel that Apple's ads insult my intelligence and that none of their points reflect why I bought a Mac.

That's just me though.

Wow, really? :confused: But hey, according to MS, you bought a Mac because:

1) You're rich and cool
2) You have a good sense of taste
3) You're mature
4) You're artistic

Ha ha... :D

No, but really...I have to wonder about the intelligence behind these advertisements. Microsoft evidently doesn't know what the most memorable part of these ads is going to be for the average viewer:

http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr214/TheDavidFrom1988/ad1.png

Seeing that is when you know MS is officially a few crayons short of a box. :D

[Eidorian]

Wow, really? :confused: But hey, according to Apple, you bought a Mac because:

1) You're rich and cool
2) You have a good sense of taste
3) You're mature
4) You're artisticAs I've said before that's the perception.

[Wikinerd]

**wall of flamebait text**

Maybe you need to be reminded what Total Cost of Ownership means...

— there are costs that are neither tangible nor quantifiable

This list might help you understand what we spoke of:

PC: Easy as 1-2 3 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=693145)


As for the rest of that post, I'd like to see some facts and figures with sources before I would even think of telling you what's wrong...


BTW, I'd be interested to hear why are you staying on this forum of fanboys even though you hate Macs and us fanboys so much...

[Eidorian]

Maybe you need to be reminded what Total Cost of Ownership means...

— there are costs that are neither tangible nor quantifiable

This list might help you understand what we spoke of:

PC: Easy as 1-2 3 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=693145)Should I make a list along the lines of running Software Update, repairing Disk Permissions, Verifying your hard disk, running daily/weekly/monthly scripts, and rebuilding a LaunchServices database?

Lets not forget rebooting for some software updates and the option to reboot when running a maintenance programs under OS X.

[Wikinerd]

Should I make a list along the lines of running Software Update, repairing Disk Permissions, Verifying your hard disk, running daily/weekly/monthly scripts, and rebuilding a LaunchServices database?

Lets not forget rebooting for some software updates and the option to reboot when running a maintenance programs under OS X.

First, maintenance programs are not necessary "for the average user" because HFS+ theoretically takes care of most of the defragging, permissions verify (during startup).

As for the software update reboot, that's required for any kind of operating system.

For all the others— running daily/weekly/monthly scripts, and rebuilding a LaunchServices database, I never had to do that—what did you do to your computer?!? (So goes the saying, "do not fix something that's not broken"...)

[fiercetiger224]

I also agree. It is just stupid when Sheila says the MBP doesn't have as much RAM as the other computers. What many people do not know about Macs that have not used them much is that they don't need nearly as much RAM compared to Vista. A Mac running Leopard should be able to run better than Vista with only 1/4 of the memory. And if Sheila really needs more memory, its called order 4GB from OWC for only $50.

Apple needs to fight back with a commercial that lets new computer buyers know this.

True dat.

You know, actually, Apple doesn't need to fight back. You wanna know why? Because the people who are buying Macs know why they want it. It's usually the people who actually do research before buying into it, so they're usually a little more "tech-savvy" than the average consumer. So basically, the people who buy cheap PCs don't know or even care what comes with it, because they usually look at the sticker price and think it's a great deal.

[mosx]

Maybe you need to be reminded what Total Cost of Ownership means...

— there are costs that are neither tangible nor quantifiable

This list might help you understand what we spoke of:

PC: Easy as 1-2 3 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=693145)


As for the rest of that post, I'd like to see some facts and figures with sources before I would even think of telling you what's wrong...

You've got to be kidding me if you're referring to an ad by Apple as proof that PCs are bad and theres more to total cost of ownership.

Really? An Apple ad?

Let's look at what it says.

Remove unneeded bloatware

Bloatware? My HP shipped with a Norton trial and MS Office trial. My first two MacBooks had iWork and MS Office trials. Norton and Office take seconds to remove. What about iLife? iWeb, Garageband, iMovie, and iDVD. iLife is the ultimate in bloatware.

Configure security settings

At least Microsoft offers security. Gotta love how FileVault stores the password for the encrypted volume in an unecrypted manner. I also like how Windows has a built-in 2 way firewall. Something you can only get with paid software on a Mac.

3. Download and install OS security patches
4. Restart
5. Download / install extra security programs
6. Restart

No different than a Mac. Last OS X reinstall I did required about 4 runnings of software update and 4 restarts before it was finished.

7. Download / install drivers for peripherals
8. Restart

False. Printers, digital cameras, scanners, even TV tuners, don't require additional drivers with Vista and none of them require reinstalls. With my two printers in Leopard, I need 1GB worth of drivers installed. And the all-in-one still won't be fully functional. In Vista I just plug them in and its ready to go. No additional software needed. With my TV tuner I plugged it in, Windows installed the drivers and it was ready to go.

9. Remove optional Windows components

Can I uninstall iLife fully without having to reinstall or search down all of the hundreds of plist and other files left behind? Whats that? No? Thats what I thought.

10. Update new virus list
11. Run full system virus scan
12. Update new malware list
13. Run full system malware scan

Only needed if you're foolish enough to do things that would bring you into contact with malware.

14. Download / install application updates
15. Restart

What? Apple's making fun of Microsoft because theres actually 3rd party software to choose from?

And what little 3rd party software is available for the Macs is never updated I assume? :rolleyes:

Only Apple's Windows software requires Windows restarts.

Apple can't make fun of Windows when its Apple's own shortcomings and poor programming skills that make it happen

16. Clean out system registry
17. Repair corupt system registry

Less likely than having to repair disk permissions in OS X.

18. Defragment hard drive

At least it doesn't require paid software like in OS X ;)

19. Free up disk space

And OS X is somehow immune? When you "uninstall" software in OS X, tons of little files get left behind in various places. Plus, again, we have to deal with the ultimate bloatware that is iLife. Not to mention the FAT universal binaries that have essentially doubled file sizes for applications.

20. Scan disk for errors
21. Run system file checker

Somehow Mac OS is immune to HDD failures? Let's not forget that OS X's file system is famous for needing "disk permissions" repaired as well.

22. Read online instruction manual

Because Apple gives you so much documentation with a Mac. I got a book telling me how great my Mac purchase was and thats it. At least my PCs have come with CDs containing the manuals.

If you want other "facts", feel free to google anything you'd like. Its all there for the reading :)

Edit: I really do think its hilarious how Apple pokes fun of Windows need for drivers. Driver updates bring new features, enhance performance, and take care of any issues. With OS X, you're stuck with what Apple provides. You're entirely dependent on what they want you to have or not have. And we all know how Apple is about bringing new features to the table for free. I had a TV tuner for my desktop PCs. Thanks to driver updates, they added in MPEG-2 encoding and even progressive scan encoding. All for free. Driver updates in Windows have also dramatically increased performance on my GPUs throughout the years, and added features to the soundcards I have owned.

It's also incredibly funny how Apple uses it as a downside, because of the fact that I can go buy a $400 desktop PC and throw any third party hardware I want in it and have it work. When was the last time I could buy an Apple desktop under $2,000 that had that sort of expandability? The current Mac Pro doesn't even offer that sort of expandability, seeing as how its limited to a very small number of PCIe slots, when most hardware is still PCI. And look at the notebooks! A limited number of ports, as well as only including a half-width ExpressCard slot and no docking station connector.

Only Apple would use their systems lack of features and expandability as a selling point.

[DMann]

Should I make a list along the lines of running Software Update, repairing Disk Permissions, Verifying your hard disk, running daily/weekly/monthly scripts, and rebuilding a LaunchServices database?

Lets not forget rebooting for some software updates and the option to reboot when running a maintenance programs under OS X.

Other than the fact that repairing permissions in OS X does virtually nothing at all, verifying the HD is not mandatory, and running scripts can be easily automated, I highly doubt the list would come close to 23.

[Eidorian]

First, maintenance programs are not necessary "for the average user" because HFS+ theoretically takes care of most of the defragging, permissions verify (during startup).

As for the software update reboot, that's required for any kind of operating system.

For all the others— running daily/weekly/monthly scripts, and rebuilding a LaunchServices database, I never had to do that—what did you do to your computer?!? (So goes the saying, "do not fix something that's not broken"...)The running nightly scripts have been used as a baseless panacea much like Repairing Disk Permissions and running Onyx/Cocktail.

I have to rebuild my LaunchServices database every few weeks because my image files suddenly amass many duplicate programs under Open With in the context menu.

Other than the fact that repairing permissions in OS X does virtually nothing at all, verifying the HD is not mandatory, and running scripts can be easily automated, I highly doubt the list would come close to 23.Computer maintenance is computer maintenance. It's worse when it's an obsessive compulsion.

Do you repair your disk permissions after every install or update?

[DMann]

Computer maintenance is computer maintenance. It's worse when it's an obsessive compulsion.

Do you repair your disk permissions after every install or update?

Absolutely not. OS X 10.5 will run its cron jobs automatically (actually, they're no longer handled by the UNIX facility "cron", they are now handled by a similar facility called "launchd". - whether you have left your computer on all night or not. You no longer need a utility to run missed maintenance as of OS X 10.5. It will run automatically at the next available opportunity.

[cwedl]

surely if you're video editing you need an os that can aleast cope with video? my vista machine powerful enough as it is can bearly cope with a few word documents let alone Outlook!

[Eidorian]

Absolutely not.Thankfully you're not at that level of obsession then.

What's to prevent me from using the scheduling tasks in another operating system again? If I really had to run all the necessary maintenance.

[Wikinerd]

You've got to be kidding me if you're referring to an ad by Apple as proof that PCs are bad and theres more to total cost of ownership.

Really? An Apple ad?

Let's look at what it says.

I've never said that it's proof. It's to give you an overall idea.


Bloatware? My HP shipped with a Norton trial and MS Office trial. My first two MacBooks had iWork and MS Office trials. Norton and Office take seconds to remove. What about iLife? iWeb, Garageband, iMovie, and iDVD. iLife is the ultimate in bloatware.

Norton took seconds to remove?!? Norton, as far as software, is one of the most notorious in being able to avoid full uninstallation... Please. (http://www.google.com/search?q=Cannot%20remove%20Norton&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8)

iLife? Well, those are things people actually use—and it's part of the operating system. What would you say to my not being able to remove Windows Media Player/Center, IE, Backup and Restore Center, Windows Mail, Windows Calendar, Windows Photo Gallery, DVD Maker, list goes on.

At least Microsoft offers security. Gotta love how FileVault stores the password for the encrypted volume in an unecrypted manner. I also like how Windows has a built-in 2 way firewall. Something you can only get with paid software on a Mac.

Do you have proof of that? If I'm correct, Apple stores user passwords in Blowfish encryption. (And currently the only way to crack FileVault is via cold-boot attack..)

No different than a Mac. Last OS X reinstall I did required about 4 runnings of software update and 4 restarts before it was finished.

Then surely you have no idea how to run them... You should skip all the ones that require restart first, i.e. install all the ones that don't require a restart, then install all the ones that requires reboots. That way you can minimize restarts to 2, consecutively, which takes around 5-10 min.

False. Printers, digital cameras, scanners, even TV tuners, don't require additional drivers with Vista and none of them require reinstalls. With my two printers in Leopard, I need 1GB worth of drivers installed. And the all-in-one still won't be fully functional. In Vista I just plug them in and its ready to go. No additional software needed. With my TV tuner I plugged it in, Windows installed the drivers and it was ready to go.

I'm sorry, I thought lack of drivers in Vista is the most infamous problem...

Google search: Vista lack of drivers (http://www.google.com/search?q=vista%20lack%20of%20driver&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8)

Can I uninstall iLife fully without having to reinstall or search down all of the hundreds of plist and other files left behind? Whats that? No? Thats what I thought.
Can I uninstall IE, and all those Windows *something* *something* (for a more comprehensive list plz refer to that above) software without having to reinstall without having to hunt down all the files and stuff in the Program Files folder, the WINDOWS folder, and whatever files they might have left behind in Documents and Settings?

... At least in Mac OS X, all those files are in the /Library and ~/Library folders...


Only needed if you're foolish enough to do things that would bring you into contact with malware.

What about these:
http://www.cert.org/incident_notes/IN-2000-07.html

And~ are you saying that at least a fourth of the US population (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/664/1044664/four-computers-infected) are foolish? (and that's just current infections... I'd say 90% of all people have had their computer infected at some point in their life..)

What? Apple's making fun of Microsoft because theres actually 3rd party software to choose from?

Apple's emphasizing the fact that apps have a unified system of updating, so instead of scrounging across the net for patches and updates you can just run your app and click "Check for Updates"...

And what little 3rd party software is available for the Macs is never updated I assume? :rolleyes:

Time for you to get out of your little cave: http://www.google.com/search?q=mac%20freeware&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Only Apple's Windows software requires Windows restarts.

Really? Last time, I recall having to restart after an IE update (that was from 6 -> 7)... And what about Adobe?

Heck, even Office:mac requires you to restart (i.e. Microsoft products require restarts?)

Apple can't make fun of Windows when its Apple's own shortcomings and poor programming skills that make it happen

It's called frameworks. Microsoft's the one responsible for them.

Less likely than having to repair disk permissions in OS X.

Because they repair them during startup. Anything that cannot can be repaired then can be done so by clicking 4 times. (or just fsck)

At least it doesn't require paid software like in OS X ;)
...Partly because OS X can make do without "external defragmentation"?

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1375

And OS X is somehow immune? When you "uninstall" software in OS X, tons of little files get left behind in various places. Plus, again, we have to deal with the ultimate bloatware that is iLife. Not to mention the FAT universal binaries that have essentially doubled file sizes for applications.

But they're always in the same location: /Library or ~/Library...

AND you can use something like AppDelete or AppCleaner...


Somehow Mac OS is immune to HDD failures? Let's not forget that OS X's file system is famous for needing "disk permissions" repaired as well.

I'd need proof of that.

(HDD Failures are usually caused by external hardware factors. OS X has nothing to do with it. Anyhow MacBooks have that accelerometer to help recognize a fall and park the heads. )

Because Apple gives you so much documentation with a Mac. I got a book telling me how great my Mac purchase was and thats it. At least my PCs have come with CDs containing the manuals.

Save paper? "Green"? (Do remember that Apple was once the one criticized for not being green, using more packaging and printing manuals...)

Anyhow, why would you need manuals... Only software that has such a steep learning curve would need a thorough manual... (such as Office 07)

If you want other "facts", feel free to google anything you'd like. Its all there for the reading :)

And I have. Plz refer to the links above.

The running nightly scripts have been used as a baseless panacea much like Repairing Disk Permissions and running Onyx/Cocktail.

And why exactly would the average user need that? Is HFS+ that volatile? (in comparison to MS-DOS and HTFS?)
I have to rebuild my LaunchServices database every few weeks because my image files suddenly amass many duplicate programs under Open With in the context menu.

I recall there were quite a few solutions out there, one of them being "default apps" prefpane

Computer maintenance is computer maintenance. It's worse when it's an obsessive compulsion.

Yes it is. Just that I've had to do a lot less on Mac OS X than on Windows. XP or Vista.

Do you repair your disk permissions after every install or update?

Nope. Why should I? I've never seen an OS X update screw up permissions, rather unlike Windows XP's service packs,... (which corrupted hal.dll—SP3 update)

[Eidorian]

iLife isn't part of OS X.

However all those "Windows ..." applications are and ship on the operating system disc.

In before the versions of Windows.

[ryanw]

Anybody else here getting the feeling that Microsoft's "ad campaign" has actually stretched beyond the TV? Think about it. Here we are on "MacRumors.com" and we're getting TONS of PC people on here defending their PC and how much better it is. They're so articulated and seem to know everything about all the PC world, but they're not the typical mac lovers. So what the heck are they doing on here?

This feels way way way too bizarre to me.

I call BS on all the PC posts in this forum. We should stop responding to them, they're all being paid as part of the campaign. Very smart! Well done M$!

[Wikinerd]

iLife isn't part of OS X.

However all those "Windows ..." applications are and ship on the operating system disc.

In before the versions of Windows.

iLife ships on OS X discs too, as we are aware...

And iLife is as much as part of OS X as IE and WMP or WLM is to Windows... (and Windows also have their iLife counterparts... Windows Movie Maker, Windows Live Photo Gallery, Windows DVD maker, just to name a few..)

[Wikinerd]

Anybody else here getting the feeling that Microsoft's "ad campaign" has actually stretched beyond the TV? Think about it. Here we are on "MacRumors.com" and we're getting TONS of PC people on here defending their PC and how much better it is. They're so articulated and seem to know everything about all the PC world, but they're not the typical mac lovers. So what the heck are they doing on here?

This feels way way way too bizarre to me.

I call BS on all the PC posts in this forum. We should stop responding to them, they're all being paid as part of the campaign. Very smart! Well done M$!

I'd like to take this chance to ask Mosx why is he/she defending Windows "so valiantly" in a "Mac fanboy/girl" forum...

[DMann]

Anybody else here getting the feeling that Microsoft's "ad campaign" has actually stretched beyond the TV? Think about it. Here we are on "MacRumors.com" and we're getting TONS of PC people on here defending their PC and how much better it is. They're so articulated and seem to know everything about all the PC world, but they're not the typical mac lovers. So what the heck are they doing on here?

This feels way way way too bizarre to me.

I call BS on all the PC posts in this forum. We should stop responding to them, they're all being paid as part of the campaign. Very smart! Well done M$!It's all quite amusing, actually - the majority of Windows Apologists are grasping for straws in defense of PCs running Windows, to an even greater extent than the ads are trying so desperately hard to do.

[Eidorian]

iLife ships on OS X discs too, as we are aware...

And iLife is as much as part of OS X as IE and WMP or WLM is to Windows...I can bundle value added software just like any other OEM. It still doesn't mean that it ships with the operating system itself.

[Wikinerd]

I can bundle value added software just like any other OEM. It still doesn't mean that it ships with the operating system itself.

You mean that Windows Movie Maker, Windows Live Photo Gallery, IE, WMP, and those programs are shipped as bloatware accompanying the OS itself like how Mosx claims?

(They do accompany most Windows distributions that I know of... So, by Mosx's definition, they are bloatware that need to be removed.)

[Eidorian]

You mean that Windows Movie Maker, Windows Live Photo Gallery, IE, WMP, and those programs are shipped as bloatware accompanying the OS itself like how Mosx claims?

(They do accompany most Windows distributions that I know of... So, by Mosx's definition, they are bloatware that need to be removed.)Once again it depends on how you define it.

I removed additional languages, printer drivers, the Office trial, and most of iLife on my MacBook. They're bloatware to me.

I just know this might boil down into first vs. third party software and that the hardware OEMs don't control what ships with Windows. I would please like to avoid such nonsense.

iLife doesn't ship with OS X retail just like anything beyond what's on the operating system disc doesn't ship with Windows. In before types of Windows licenses.

[chrono1081]

I could be wrong on this since I can't watch the Ad but if she needs 4GB of ram did she make sure to get a 64bit version of Windows?

...I bet she didn't....And most computers come with 32bit version installed. (I could be wrong though I've worked in a remote area the past 1.5 years so things may have changed.)

[Wikinerd]

Once again it depends on how you define it.

I removed additional languages, printer drivers, the Office trial, and most of iLife on my MacBook. They're bloatware to me.

I just know this might boil down into first vs. third party software and that the hardware OEMs don't control what ships with Windows. I would please like to avoid such nonsense.

iLife doesn't ship with OS X retail just like anything beyond what's on the operating system disc doesn't ship with Windows. In before types of Windows licenses.

Excuse me, but if you're saying iLife is bloatware, those windows + *** programs are bloatware also. They are installed from the OS disc, but are not needed.

As for the hardware deciding what to ship it with, I'd say, it's "apples and oranges"... It's part of the OS X install image, integrated into the system. They don't get paid for installing more iLife stuff... Nor can they uninstall them on the spot for you for a certain price—it's because they can't. It's part of the system. As much as WMP, Windows Live ___, etc.


PS. Besides, these programs are theoretically not bloatware because they do not take up that much space if you delete the main components and do not run background processes.

[pika2000]

The first ad works because it simply gets to the point, price.
The second ad failed, since the guy is hardly a "power user," and contradicted himself about the specs that he wanted and what he bought (he wanted a laptop with good battery life, but guess what he bought).
The 3rd ad works, pointing 2 excellent points, blu-ray and games.
This latest ad failed. Simply because the girl wants to "cut" video. "Cut" video? WTF does that mean? Don't they mean edit? Oh, wait a second, Movie Maker vs iMovie 09. Hmmm, let's have her say "cut" instead. :rolleyes:

These ads simply show Microsoft's ineptness in advertising. They should focus on things that Apple currently cannot match: blu-ray, gaming, and netbooks. Arguing about other things only make the ad sillier that it should. This ad can be easily countered by Apple by comparing Movie Maker and iMovie09 (or the availability of Final Cut Pro, and showing real studios and pros that use FCP), and picking a PC to "cut" video suddenly looks very silly.

Oh, and what's with HP? Is this a Microsoft ad, or an ad for HP? 3 out of 4 picked HP laptop. Dell and other OEMs should be mad at MS.

[chrono1081]

Woa! I missed the thread about Norton.

First off, Norton doesnt find a freaking thing, or if it finds it, it does nothing with it. Its funny how at work we have symantec corporate edition but have to use Nod or Kaspersky to remove viruses from "clean" drives that symantec protects. Norton (made by the same company) is just as bad.

A lot of people say "I have Norton and I've never had a virus" um..thats what you think. Scan your machine with something else once.

But aside from my completely justified Norton/Symantec dislike it is a pain to uninstall. The only real way to uninstall is manually removing folders, registry keys etc but symnrt, available on symantecs website to uninstall their own AV does a pretty good job.

Wait whats that? You have to download something from the manufacturers website to UNINSTALL their own program? Ya...sad....

[Wikinerd]

The first ad works because it simply gets to the point, price.
The second ad failed, since the guy is hardly a "power user," and contradicted himself about the specs that he wanted and what he bought (he wanted a laptop with good battery life, but guess what he bought).
The 3rd ad works, pointing 2 excellent points, blu-ray and games.
This latest ad failed. Simply because the girl wants to "cut" video. "Cut" video? WTF does that mean? Don't they mean edit? Oh, wait a second, Movie Maker vs iMovie 09. Hmmm, let's have her say "cut" instead. :rolleyes:

And he wanted a large monitor—with crappy res..

more in this article:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/04/04/microsofts_latest_ad_attacks_mac_aesthetics_computing_power.html

LOL@ "cut" video.... Let's just cmd-x the whole segment.


@chrono
Take a look at my links... what you think it uninstalled may not be the case... With synmantec, it never does what you expect it to do—especially with uninstalling software.

[Eidorian]

And why exactly would the average user need that? Is HFS+ that volatile? (in comparison to MS-DOS and HTFS?)It's a common blanket panacea.

I recall there were quite a few solutions out there, one of them being "default apps" prefpaneWhy do I need a third party solution for this?

Yes it is. Just that I've had to do a lot less on Mac OS X than on Windows. XP or Vista.Please tell me why it is mandatory in Windows then.

Nope. Why should I? I've never seen an OS X update screw up permissions, rather unlike Windows XP's service packs,... (which corrupted hal.dll—SP3 update)I've had to deal with operating system breaking updates for OS X.

Excuse me, but if you're saying iLife is bloatware, those windows + *** programs are bloatware also. They are installed from the OS disc, but are not needed.

As for the hardware deciding what to ship it with, I'd say, it's "apples and oranges"... It's part of the OS X install image, integrated into the system. They don't get paid for installing more iLife stuff... Nor can they uninstall them on the spot for you for a certain price—it's because they can't. It's part of the system. As much as WMP, Windows Live ___, etc.I only said that iLife isn't part of OS X just like value added software that doesn't ship with the operating system isn't part of Windows.


PS. Besides, these programs are theoretically not bloatware because they do not take up that much space if you delete the main components and do not run background processes.Please elaborate.

[Wikinerd]

It's a common blanket panacea.

Why do I need a third party solution for this?

Please tell me why it is mandatory in Windows then.

I've had to deal with operating system breaking updates for OS X.

I only said that iLife isn't part of OS X just like value added software that doesn't ship with the operating system isn't part of Windows.

Please elaborate.

1. HFS+ does a lot of things that NTFS and FAT doesn't do (defragging, basic maintenance, etc). When Apple moves onto ZFS it will even better. Generally HFS+ requires less maintenance than FAT; and whether HFS+ is better than NTFS is arguable...

2. Well I've never had a problem with that.. since I do not have the need to simultaneously open files with several different programs.. (as per your "open with" clutter, which also happens frequently in Windows.)

3. You mean updates breaking operating systems? Well they do happen. But they never happened to me. And I don't fix something that's not broken.

4. How is iLife not shipped with OS X? If I recall correctly, all OS X distros ships with at least one version of iLife, albeit old. (Just as you wouldn't expect IE8 on Windows XP SP2 distros.)

5. This explanation should be sufficient (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloatware). They are not demos, nor trialware. Nor do they run background processes.

(iLife takes around 4GB, yes, but you can easily delete the bulk of it by simply dragging the Apps to Trash and emptying it. All that's left are the .plist files which shouldn't take more than 5MB combined... )

[Eidorian]

1. HFS+ does a lot of things that NTFS and FAT doesn't do (defragging, basic maintenance, etc).I'm not talking about HFS+. I'm talking about unnecessary panacea maintenance.


2. Well I've never had a problem with that.. since I do not have the need to simultaneously open files with several different programs.. (as per your "open with" clutter, which also happens frequently in Windows.)It seems to happen more in Leopard then it did in Tiger. It's annoying having multiple copies of the same program listed in Open With even if you only have one version installed.


4. How is iLife not shipped with OS X? If I recall correctly, all OS X distros ships with at least one version of iLife, albeit old. (Just as you wouldn't expect IE8 on Windows XP SP2 distros.)I've already explained OEM value added software several times.


5. This explanation should be sufficient (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloatware). They are not demos, nor trialware. Nor do they run background processes.Thank you.

All that's left are the .plist files which shouldn't take more than 5MB combined...)You forgot /Library.

[Wikinerd]

I'm not talking about HFS+. I'm talking about unnecessary panacea maintenance.

But sometimes you have to—esp when torrenting in Windows... if you don't defrag regularly you will have a HDD failure in your hands in no time. HFS+ does quite a lot of it for you.

It seems to happen more in Leopard then it did in Tiger. It's annoying having multiple copies of the same program listed in Open With even if you only have one version installed.

I've never seen that happen... The only time more than one copy of an app appeared is because I have 2 copies installed...

I've already explained OEM value added software several times.
Sorry. I'm not sure what OEM value added software is, as per your explanation...

If you're saying that the term means that OEMs are getting more money by adding more software to the distro, then I'd say that Apple doesn't get more money by adding more software to the distro.

If I'm wrong please explain again. I'm a slow learner.

You forgot /Library.

I wouldn't suggest that. /Library contains files that may be used by the system itself. /Library/Preferences, though is the one you should be looking for. Most of the main preference plist's are there or in Application Support. (Well, yeah. The Garageband Lessons take up more than 5mb. I forgot.)

[OllyW]

4. How is iLife not shipped with OS X? If I recall correctly, all OS X distros ships with at least one version of iLife, albeit old. (Just as you wouldn't expect IE8 on Windows XP SP2 distros.)

iLife is not part of OS X.

Yes, it is installed on every new Mac but it is not part of the operating system.

When you re-install OS X using the system discs supplied with a new Mac, iLife is an optional extra if you chose to customise the installation.

[Wikinerd]

iLife is not part of OS X.

Yes, it is installed on every new Mac but it is not part of the operating system.

When you re-install OS X using the system discs supplied with a new Mac, iLife is an optional extra if you chose to customise the installation.

I stand corrected. But they are still a part of the integrated system that is OS X. "For the best experience", as Microsoft argued when they were litigated upon inclusion of IE in Windows even though proven that Windows can make do without...


PS. But it is shipped with OS X, is it not?

[Eidorian]

But sometimes you have to—esp when torrenting in Windows... if you don't defrag regularly you will have a HDD failure in your hands in no time. HFS+ does quite a lot of it for you.

The running nightly scripts have been used as a baseless panacea much like Repairing Disk Permissions and running Onyx/Cocktail.And why exactly would the average user need that? Is HFS+ that volatile? (in comparison to MS-DOS and HTFS?)Like I said before. I wasn't talking about HFS+.


Sorry. I'm not sure what OEM value added software is, as per your explanation...

If you're saying that the term means that OEMs are getting more money by adding more software to the distro, then I'd say that Apple doesn't get more money by adding more software to the distro.

If I'm wrong please explain again. I'm a slow learner.OllyW explained it for the most part.

I wouldn't suggest that. /Library contains files that may be used by the system itself. /Library/Preferences, though is the one you should be looking for. Most of the main preference plist's are there or in Application Support. (Well, yeah. The Garageband Lessons take up more than 5mb. I forgot.)You make it sound like you need to use AppZapper for everything.

PS. But it is shipped with OS X, is it not?Yes iLife is as OEM software that adds value.

[Wikinerd]

Like I said before. I wasn't talking about HFS+.
And I'm saying the maintenance is somewhat necessary when dealing with Windows' file systems.

OllyW explained it for the most part.

You make it sound like you need AppZapper for everything.

Yes iLife is as OEM software that adds value.

But in my eyes, there is still a difference between iLife and normal bloatware. Apple includes the software not because they're paid to do so, but by default configuration because they add functionality that's included in Microsoft's Operating System by default. AND just because they're also an OEM doesn't mean that any software they bundle with it is counted as "OEM value added software'... Comes from comparing two different paradigms.

(BTW I think a more appropriate example of OS X OEM-value-added software would be Stuffit Expander)

(Oh, and there *was* a Media Player-free version of Windows... meaning that theoretically Windows can be run without them. But instead of OEM-value-added-software, I'd say that would be Software-company-value added software... rather like iLife... )

PS. Is there a way to remove software

PPS. Sorry about the incoherence of this post, but I have trouble comparing the two when they use completely different models. By your argument we can say that OS X is also OEM-value-added-software... And so is Windows to HP and Dell and Acer and Lenovo and whatnot.

[McDughf]

She is a filmmaker, well that sucks for her because I am a filmmaker and in the industry 90 percent of the software we use is Final cut pro.


Where Are You Getting This Figure ?
I Am A Religious Mac Fan, But I'd Say About 25% Of "Our" Industry Use Final Cut, About 23% Use Adobe Premier But the Overwhelming Majority Use Avid Systems

[OllyW]

PS. But it is shipped with OS X, is it not?

No, it is not shipped with retail versions of OS X unless you chose the Mac Box Set.

[Eidorian]

And I'm saying the maintenance is somewhat necessary when dealing with Windows' file systems.No argument here. My point was that there are maintenance utilities for OS X and some users swear by them. I think it's a bit much though.


But in my eyes, there is still a difference between iLife and normal bloatware. Apple includes the software not because they're paid to do so, but by default configuration because they add functionality that's included in Microsoft's Operating System by default. AND just because they're also an OEM doesn't mean that any software they bundle with it is counted as "OEM value added software'... Comes from comparing two different paradigms.

(BTW I think a more appropriate example of OS X OEM-value-added software would be Stuffit Expander)I agree. iLife does ship with a new Mac but it doesn't ship on an OS X retail DVD. It's a separate software package.

PS. Is there a way to remove softwareIt's pretty much drag and drop or package installer in OS X. Only a few programs that go into /System come with uninstallers and they are usually just scripts.

I'm a little wary of digging in /Library to recover every last byte. I don't care about preference files. Cache does add up though in ~/Library.

PPS. Sorry about the incoherence of this post, but I have trouble comparing the two when they use completely different models. By your argument we can say that OS X is also OEM-value-added-software... And so is Windows to HP and Dell and Acer and Lenovo and whatnot.Which is part of the mess I didn't want to get into. I build my own machines so it doesn't bother me. I have complete control.

[vvebsta]

thank goodness this is page 2 news... too bad she isn't going to get far in the entertainment industry. 90% of us are on Macs

[BMWFan]

That's really your argument? Think about what you're saying.

Google: convert ssa to srt mac
Second Result: http://forum.videohelp.com/topic349909.html
First Reply: http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Jubler

Don't ever believe there's anything a PC can do that a Mac can't (except when it comes to high-end gaming). Apple has a very significant user base and Macs are very popular among developers. On top of that, it's pretty easy to port things from Linux to OSX. Everything exists, so don't give me this semen load of "THEN WHY CAN'T MY MAC DO THIS?!"

Eh you do realise when you convert ssa to srt, you lose all benefits of ssa/ass subtitles. looks like you've never worked with them. with ssa you get custom fonts, border size, border color, primary color, animation, rotation, drop shadows and a lot more advanced functions.

So is there any way of burning ssa/ass subtitles onto a avi without converting them into srt? ssa/ass are used exclusively by the fansubbing community to release subtitled avi files. And guess what they use for this editing purpose. Certainely not OSX.

[Goona]

You know what blows my mind about all these ads, other than their inane stupidity?

The fact that they're Microsoft ads, where they're supposed to be advertising WINDOWS and the OS is never even a FACTOR in any of these ads. The entire reason of Apple's existence is because of their software. Hardware is a secondary thing. Yet these ads are solely about the cheapest possible hardware that fulfills random bullet points that are convenient. Guess what? Some PC will ALWAYS be able to beat out a mac with that ridiculous comparison.

These ads are so incredibly intellectually dishonest. Instead of arguing the merits of Windows over OSX, its down to advertising for HP, etc. Pretty damn pointless. At least mac ads attempt to point out differences between the 2 Operating systems (as well as not pretending to be candid 'home video' footage, which is extremely insulting to the intelligence)

You actually expect them to mention Vista?

[Lesser Evets]

The amount of included RAM is really a deciding factor for someone who is supposedly mildy tech savvy? Really?

She's a PoC and an ARTIST. A BS artist.

I want to see her 1 day later as she fiddles with the PC. Hair pulled out. Just about getting ready to edit video.

[pol0001]

PS. But it is shipped with OS X, is it not?

Not if you buy a OSX DVD. (E.g. in case you want to upgrade from 10.4 to 10.5) Then you will have to buy iLife'09 seperatly.

Edit: Sorry. Didn't read scroll down enough.

[bedifferent]

I started the previous laptop hunter ad thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=683770). I don't think that you should judge someone by their join date.

That may be true for most, however as I've been reading these threads I know he joined and posted on the same day a comment under the Microsoft advertisements. His comments have been inflammatory, insulting and he seems to simply enjoy baiting Apple "fanbois" on an Apple "fanboi" web site. With links posted from web sites such as Engadget (and most on Macrumors know that Engadget subscribers loathe Apple), it isn't a big leap to conclude this individual joined with the sole purpose of baiting and inflaming individuals on Macrumors. I'm all for discussing topics intelligently, I take issue with someone who joins and begins acting like a three year old.

[simonhayre]

I also agree. It is just stupid when Sheila says the MBP doesn't have as much RAM as the other computers. What many people do not know about Macs that have not used them much is that they don't need nearly as much RAM compared to Vista. A Mac running Leopard should be able to run better than Vista with only 1/4 of the memory. And if Sheila really needs more memory, its called order 4GB from OWC for only $50.

Apple needs to fight back with a commercial that lets new computer buyers know this.

To be honest, let those silly PC users think that computers are all about the size of RAM. I'm happy that I have an advantage over my competitors. Your quite right though, I used to sell Apple computers 2 years ago, and customers would always question the amount of hardware compared to the PC's we sold. I always repeated "It just works!".

Just remember, you buy quality not quantity, and Microsoft have to advertise their operating system on such high specification machines.

If leopard runs so well on it's current spec, just think about how good Snow Leopard will be. I've got a feeling, apple are going to surprise us all in June with just how efficient it is.

[dornoforpyros]

My favorite part was:

“Is this graphics card going to be powerful?”
“Mmhm.”
“Wow.”

...

Haha that was my favourite part too. Like the guy wasn't even suppose to be in the computer section, so he just nods along for the cameras.

[phoenix78]

Well, i would suspect that when snowleopard comes out we will be seeing the benefits of OpenCL, and much better use of multi-core technology.

Im not sure what Windows7 will be like in this area but it will take them a little while to catch up to snowleopard? (from what i can tell from various articles)

I think this could possibly widen the gap between osx and windows and make ppl go to or stay with osx, especially pro users who work with graphics/video/sound.

The pro apps from apple are built by apple no? So, a company that designs OS around multicore cpus, and taking advantage of GPUs, who also builds these pro apps, the performance will be unmatched by others. At least for a few years i guess.

I know this isnt the 'here and now' but it will be soon.

But hey, if people can get their work done using cheaper machines and on windows then good for them. In the end the quality of a design comes down to the skill/artistry of a person and is not exclusively dependent on the tool. Software for windows isnt completely crap that people cant do anything on them.

[bedifferent]

Anybody else here getting the feeling that Microsoft's "ad campaign" has actually stretched beyond the TV? Think about it. Here we are on "MacRumors.com" and we're getting TONS of PC people on here defending their PC and how much better it is. They're so articulated and seem to know everything about all the PC world, but they're not the typical mac lovers. So what the heck are they doing on here?

This feels way way way too bizarre to me.

I call BS on all the PC posts in this forum. We should stop responding to them, they're all being paid as part of the campaign. Very smart! Well done M$!

Agree. A few commentators who are PC apologists claimed "tin foil hat" to those that pointed this out. However, viral marketing is a HUGE factor in todays advertising/marketing world. One of my friends back in NYC is paid part-time to virally market health products by posting comments as a member on health related community forums. He gets paid by word and sometimes the number of posts, and does it while he works. It's easy cash and very effective.

[bruinsrme]

I think the funniest thing about these commercials is the fanboys disecting them. From the 3 or 4 threads on the MS commercials on MR the effectiveness seems to be right on target.
Many here say macs are easier to use. Perhaps the Apple commercials show focus on that instead of issues from the initial release of Vista, especially since SP1 has been released over a year ago.

[larrymarshall2]

She is a filmmaker, well that sucks for her because I am a filmmaker and in the industry 90 percent of the software we use is Final cut pro.

If this ad was supposed to be geared toward filmmakers than in was a waste of money. Film editors and know about computers and they would never prefer pc over a mac

Only because I don't want people to get wrong information, 90% of the film industry uses AVID editing systems, at least, in Hollywood they do.

For B movies and micro budgets, FCP is what 90% of the films are edited on.

Just to clarify!

[nefster]

Ugghh. I could see some rationale to the last set of commercials, but there is absolutely no way I would ever attempt video editing on a PC. The power and intuitiveness of Mac software/OS shines in this regard. Don't forget, when video editing you are usually using more than one application to complete your process and seamless operation between these is what makes a workflow happen.

Give me a an under-RAM's Mac and Final Cut any day over any PC with a faster processor and more RAM!

[NoSmokingBandit]

Other than the fact that repairing permissions in OS X does virtually nothing at all, verifying the HD is not mandatory, and running scripts can be easily automated, I highly doubt the list would come close to 23.

You could make a 23 point list if you filled it with as much BS and FUD as the list apple made about windows.

[Wikinerd]

You could make a 23 point list if you filled it with as much BS and FUD as the list apple made about windows.

Really?— to my point of view, and to several others on that thread, it's quite accurate. (the fact that you need to defrag, remove bloatware, update, drivers, malware scan, repair registry, etc.)

[Wikinerd]

Give me a an under-RAM's Mac and Final Cut any day over any PC with a faster processor and more RAM!

Erm. I'd say I'd go with the PC but hackint0sh it. (or EFI-X it or whatnot)

PS. Is there a way to remove softwareIt's pretty much drag and drop or package installer in OS X. Only a few programs that go into /System come with uninstallers and they are usually just scripts.

Sorry. I forgot to finish that sentence. My original thought was that is there an app like AppZapper, AppDelete or such in Windows? (No, add/remove programs usually screws it up even more)

PS. even though Mac OS X's paradigm is a lot easier and faster...

Eh you do realise when you convert ssa to srt, you lose all benefits of ssa/ass subtitles. looks like you've never worked with them. with ssa you get custom fonts, border size, border color, primary color, animation, rotation, drop shadows and a lot more advanced functions.

So is there any way of burning ssa/ass subtitles onto a avi without converting them into srt? ssa/ass are used exclusively by the fansubbing community to release subtitled avi files. And guess what they use for this editing purpose. Certainely not OSX.

http://www.fluffalopefactory.com/miyu/

and ssa/ass aren't used that much outside of the anime community, really...

[Wikinerd]

--- post removed by author.---

[NXTMIKE]

i wonder if you decided on getting a Mac, would "they" still hand you the x amount of cash. lol

thats if these ads were real. which they're not IMO.

[Eanair]

Another HP computer.

Interesting.

[Wikinerd]

thats if these ads were real. which they're not IMO.

not in your opinion—it's a known fact that the people featured are actors with NDA's...

(Lauren is from an actor's guild, for example... the others, we don't know. Or at least they can't tell as long as they stand by their NDAs)

[NoSmokingBandit]

Really?— to my point of view, and to several others on that thread, it's quite accurate. (the fact that you need to defrag, remove bloatware, update, drivers, malware scan, repair registry, etc.)

Yes, the views a forum full of mac fanboys who bash MS on a regular basis is an accurate sample pool.
:rolleyes:

[Beric]

How would you emphasize with Lauren? I can see how you would empathize with her.

Lauren wanted the cheapest 17-inch laptop she could find. Clearly, then, she got what she wanted and needed.

[Wikinerd]

Yes, the views a forum full of mac fanboys who bash MS on a regular basis is an accurate sample pool.
:rolleyes:

http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-5885513.html
http://www.cnet.com.au/ten-things-you-should-do-to-a-new-pc-before-surfing-the-web-240057323.htm
http://whitepapers.zdnet.com/abstract.aspx?docid=173365
http://whitepapers.zdnet.com/abstract.aspx?docid=301317&promo=100511
http://whitepapers.zdnet.com/abstract.aspx?docid=173252&promo=100511
http://www.michaelhorowitz.com/newcomputer.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/technology/bootcamp/3344120/Bootcamp-401-Ten-things-to-do-with-a-new-PC-part-1.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/technology/bootcamp/3344237/Bootcamp-402-Ten-things-to-do-with-a-new-PC-part-2.html


...want more?

[Wikinerd]

Clearly, then, she got what she wanted and needed.

Well, she was asking for quite a lot... 17-inch, fast & powerful, and comfortable... and who she can be cheap on...

:D:D

[NoSmokingBandit]

http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10878_11-5885513.html
http://www.cnet.com.au/ten-things-you-should-do-to-a-new-pc-before-surfing-the-web-240057323.htm
http://whitepapers.zdnet.com/abstract.aspx?docid=173365
http://whitepapers.zdnet.com/abstract.aspx?docid=301317&promo=100511
http://whitepapers.zdnet.com/abstract.aspx?docid=173252&promo=100511
http://www.michaelhorowitz.com/newcomputer.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/technology/bootcamp/3344120/Bootcamp-401-Ten-things-to-do-with-a-new-PC-part-1.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/technology/bootcamp/3344237/Bootcamp-402-Ten-things-to-do-with-a-new-PC-part-2.html


...want more?
I arbitrarily clicked on 4 of those (im not patient enough to read all of them) and 3 were the exact same article telling users what to do before they go online. One of the steps was "plug in and configure your router." Obvisouly you dont need to set up a router for a mac, they run on magic and unicorn poop, duh! One of the other steps was something like "plug in your printer." MS screwed up again! Everyone knows that macs automatically plug the printers in for you!
Other points were things like adjusting your monitor, plugging into a surge protector instead of the wall outlet, check hardware for defects (as well all know, macs never have faulty hardware from the factory :rolleyes:), downloading updates (once again, not windows-specific).

Ugh....
Im don with this thread now. If you can post something even semi-intelligent i might humor you, until then you can keep spreading nonsense, the other zealots here probably love it.

[Treq]

Lauren wanted the cheapest 17-inch laptop she could find. Clearly, then, she got what she wanted and needed.

No, she didn't. People in the film business use Macs. I bet the crew shooting this were laughing while they made it. :D

unless you mean "cheap" as in "crap"... then yes, she did.

[Wikinerd]

I arbitrarily clicked on 3 or 4 of those (im not patient enough to read all of them) and 3 were the exact same article telling users what to do before they go online. One of the steps was "plug in and configure your router." Obvisouly you dont need to set up a router for a mac, they run on magic and unicorn poop, duh! One of the other steps was something like "plug in your printer." MS screwed up again! Everyone knows that macs automatically plug the printers in for you!
Other points were things like adjusting your monitor, plugging into a surge protector instead of the wall outlet, check hardware for defects (as well all know, macs never have faulty hardware from the factory :rolleyes:), downloading updates (once again, not windows-specific).

Some of them are the same (the first 4), just to show that they're not "fanboy reporting", that a multitude of people indicates that it's suggested—if you were to exhibit any triple-digit-intelligence you should actually cite more than once source from keeping the other side from denouncing that source unless it's established. (take Mosx, for example.)
And some of the steps are the same with macs, such as the router one.

There are some points that are valid that you have missed that proves my point:

making a starter CD ROM (because of the frequent reinstalls that you may need)
removing bloatware
Install antivirus software
Install printers and other peripherals
Turn off unnecessary Windows services
Establish a system restore point



Next time, stop trolling for a moment and try reading all of them. It might keep you from writing that pile of bollocks that you did.

Ugh....
Im don with this thread now. If you can post something even semi-intelligent i might humor you, until then you can keep spreading nonsense, the other zealots here probably love it.

Way to insult someone while spreading nonsense yourself. I am still waiting for any sort of proof from you. (No, Mosx's doesn't count.)

[NT1440]

Lauren wanted the cheapest 17-inch laptop she could find. Clearly, then, she got what she wanted and needed.

Really? "cheapest computer I can find" didnt come up when she was listing what she "needed" from a laptop.

[Demosthenes X]

Ugghh. I could see some rationale to the last set of commercials, but there is absolutely no way I would ever attempt video editing on a PC. The power and intuitiveness of Mac software/OS shines in this regard. Don't forget, when video editing you are usually using more than one application to complete your process and seamless operation between these is what makes a workflow happen.

Give me a an under-RAM's Mac and Final Cut any day over any PC with a faster processor and more RAM!

CS4 integrates better than Final Cut Studio, is more powerful, and offers far more functionality. I love Final Cut for editing, but as a package, CS4 is way, way ahead of it. AfterEffects blows Motion out of the water, and FCP doesn't even offer a piece of software like OnLocation.

And CS4 is available on both platforms, so you can use it on a PC.

[Treq]

CS4 integrates better than Final Cut Studio, is more powerful, and offers far more functionality. I love Final Cut for editing, but as a package, CS4 is way, way ahead of it. AfterEffects blows Motion out of the water, and FCP doesn't even offer a piece of software like OnLocation.

And CS4 is available on both platforms, so you can use it on a PC.

lol:D

[pmeisman]

She must not be that serious about saving money. In the industry you have 2 real choices for editing software. Final Cut, which is exclusive to mac, (and $1600) and Avid... A basic package of their software starts at about $5000. Also, I don't know anyone who is an filmmaker who says, "I need a smaller screen." The larger the screen the greater the space for productivity. I sincerely doubt she is a filmmaker at all, and is just paid actor, but still... It's upsetting to see that character inaccurately portrayed. This goes without saying, Microsoft sucks...

[DMann]

You could make a 23 point list if you filled it with as much BS and FUD as the list apple made about windows.

However, it is the very awareness of FUD which keeps Windows running at all. We Windows users rely on FUD for motivation to diligently run anti-virus, malware, spyware programs, and update and scan without lapse. Windows memory management being what it is, we need to be extra mindful about which apps are kept open, close those apps not being used, thanks to Superfetch, and cross our fingers while attempting to deal with large files. Without FUD, Windows productivity would come to a screeching halt - We ought to, at the very least, give credit where credit is due.

[Treq]

However, it is the very awareness of FUD which keeps Windows running at all. We Windows users rely on FUD for motivation to diligently run anti-virus, malware, spyware programs, and update and scan without lapse. Windows memory management being what it is, we need to be extra mindful about which apps are kept open, close those apps not being used, thanks to Superfetch, and cross our fingers while attempting to deal with large files. Without FUD, Windows productivity would come to a screeching halt - We ought to, at the very least, give credit where credit is due.

Wow, all that wasted time, just because your OS wasn't designed well. I wonder what that costs in man/hours?:rolleyes:

[DMann]

Wow, all that wasted time, just because your OS wasn't designed well. I wonder what that costs in man/hours?:rolleyes:Considering the hours lost to downtime due to frequent restarts, system reinstalls, IT management, DLL Hell, driver problems, and continuous scans, the amount of lost income is daunting. Until we moved the majority of our systems to OSX, we accepted these annoyances as 'the norm' and have missed several deadlines as a result. Productivity took a 180º turn once we switched over to OS X - The stability of UNIX is unmatched, and we'll soon be 98% MAC by the end of the summer.

[BMWFan]

These adverts are about budget, people. MS is just showing that with PCs you can get a machine with the specs they want for the budget they have. And before you go on about people being "cheap", even Apple users buy Dell displays because Apple doesn't provide displays with the specs the want within their budget. Everyone has a budget, even Apple users.

[aristotle]

I'd suggest that the clueless PC fanboys find another hobby than coming here to troll. A mac with 2GB of ram is more than enough for basic video editing. Compared to OS X and linux, windows is horrible at memory management because windows initially did not have virtual memory while UNIX has had it for decades. OS X is built on server OS technology while windows has its roots in a single tasking OS called DOS. Right now, I have 948MB free out of 2GB and a VM size of 45GB on my iMac. Numbers like that would choke a windows PC running XP or Vista. It cannot handle juggling that much VM without grinding to a halt.

I earn my living on windows PCs developing software and I could tell you horror stories memory fragmentation on 64bit Windows 2003 Enterprise crashing Visual studio because of memory fragmentation resulting in "out of memory errors" despite having 2GB of ram and more than enough space for swap. Windows itself was a horrible hack and WOW64 (windows on windows) is ever worse.

BTW. My workstation at work has 2GB of ram as well but it run far slower than OS X on my iMac even factoring in the fact that I have a faster processor at home. The whole feel of the OS is sluggish once you have a few larger applications running.

[Pika]

These adverts are about budget, people. MS is just showing that with PCs you can get a machine with the specs they want for the budget they have. And before you go on about people being "cheap", even Apple users buy Dell displays because Apple doesn't provide displays with the specs the want within their budget. Everyone has a budget, even Apple users.

My budget is very good, I make money online with all my blogs and porn site that I create. I make $2 an hour non-stop thanks to advertising.

[FX120]

DLL Hell

God damn, why do people keep bringing this up? It hasn't been an issue for almost 10 years now.

[IzzyJG99]

This commercial really just I think embarrassed Microsoft. "I'm a filmmaker." Really? I know a lot of filmmakers and they all use Macs. Then the "2GB of RAM?" For Godsakes 2GB is quite a freakin' lot of RAM.

These commercials scream "Our clientele is easily swayed by salesmen and free money."

I wonder just how many of these commercials never make it to air where the person says "I'll take your money and buy the Mac."

[Treq]

Considering the hours lost to downtime due to frequent restarts, system reinstalls, IT management, DLL Hell, driver problems, and continuous scans, the amount of lost income is daunting. Until we moved the majority of our systems to OSX, we accepted these annoyances as 'the norm' and have missed several deadlines as a result. Productivity took a 180º turn once we switched over to OS X - The stability of UNIX is unmatched, and we'll soon be 98% MAC by the end of the summer.

See, Mac's are less expensive...:rolleyes:

[DMann]

God damn, why do people keep bringing this up? It hasn't been an issue for almost 10 years now.

If only it were true:

"c:\gdalwin32-1.6\bin\GEOS_C.DLL" contains errors. The application has
failed to start because its side-by-side configuration is incorrect.
Please see the application event log for more detail (14001)."

[bruinsrme]

Some of them are the same (the first 4), just to show that they're not "fanboy reporting", that a multitude of people indicates that it's suggested—if you were to exhibit any triple-digit-intelligence you should actually cite more than once source from keeping the other side from denouncing that source unless it's established. (take Mosx, for example.)
And some of the steps are the same with macs, such as the router one.

There are some points that are valid that you have missed that proves my point:

making a starter CD ROM (because of the frequent reinstalls that you may need) nearly ALL PC come with a restore disk so this is unnecessry
removing bloatware my xps had two things on it that i had to un-install
Install antivirus software not necessary
Install printers and other peripherals only for networking or a newer printer. then again tell me why you wouldn't want the latest drivers
Turn off unnecessary Windows services what services should i be turning off
Establish a system restore point optional



Next time, stop trolling for a moment and try reading all of them. It might keep you from writing that pile of bollocks that you did.



Way to insult someone while spreading nonsense yourself. I am still waiting for any sort of proof from you. (No, Mosx's doesn't count.)

some pcs have more bloatware (as you call it) but 10 minutes customizing a pc goes a long way. Apple users don't customize their computers?

[neiltc13]

If only it were true:

"c:\gdalwin32-1.6\bin\GEOS_C.DLL" contains errors. The application has
failed to start because its side-by-side configuration is incorrect.
Please see the application event log for more detail (14001)."

The difference is that it is so much more helpful than OS X, which would simply close the program or make you stare at a beach ball.

Anyway, I'm liking these ads even more with each one - they're so effective - not only do they get the point across incredibly smoothly, they also get people talking online and questioning why they are spending so much more on a Mac.

The simple fact from this ad is that this girl got the same kind of performance as she'd get from a MacBook Pro for significantly less cash. The fact that the screen is *slightly* lower resolution and it's not made of metal is insignificant when you look at how much the machines cost.

[DMann]

This commercial really just I think embarrassed Microsoft. "I'm a filmmaker." Really? I know a lot of filmmakers and they all use Macs. Then the "2GB of RAM?" For Godsakes 2GB is quite a freakin' lot of RAM.

These commercials scream "Our clientele is easily swayed by salesmen and free money."

I wonder just how many of these commercials never make it to air where the person says "I'll take your money and buy the Mac."

The mere fact that MS finds it necessary to bribe consumers to purchase a PC sums it all too well.

[jettredmont]

Bloatware? My HP shipped with a Norton trial and MS Office trial. My first two MacBooks had iWork and MS Office trials. Norton and Office take seconds to remove. What about iLife? iWeb, Garageband, iMovie, and iDVD. iLife is the ultimate in bloatware.


Wow, you must know how to pick HP laptops! My sister in law bought a Toshiba which came, from the factory, with 13 separate items in the "system notifications" area and over 20 unecessary applications running in the background after startup.

That's bloatware. Crap on the disk that's not running is a secondary concern. What I care about is that the PC I get isn't spending half its CPU cycles figuring out how to most annoyingly throw the next piece of advertising in my face.


At least Microsoft offers security. Gotta love how FileVault stores the password for the encrypted volume in an unecrypted manner. I also like how Windows has a built-in 2 way firewall. Something you can only get with paid software on a Mac.


Source?

I'm no FileVault expert, but I do know that the Fortune 500 company I work for trusts FileVault on its laptops and requires a $300-per-seat encryption equivalent on its Windows laptops.


No different than a Mac. Last OS X reinstall I did required about 4 runnings of software update and 4 restarts before it was finished.


Really? Last time I installed Tiger (10.4) there were two SU runs and a single restart to get it all the way from 10.4.0 to 10.4.11 (I think that is the latest in 10.4). Reinstalling Leopard required a single SU run and a single restart.

You, sir, are full of ****.


False. Printers, digital cameras, scanners, even TV tuners, don't require additional drivers with Vista and none of them require reinstalls. With my two printers in Leopard, I need 1GB worth of drivers installed. And the all-in-one still won't be fully functional. In Vista I just plug them in and its ready to go. No additional software needed. With my TV tuner I plugged it in, Windows installed the drivers and it was ready to go.


All this depends on the specific mix of hardware. I have to say this used to be a big deal (a lot of peripherals were simple plug-and-play on OS X while the Windows drivers needed updating before plugging the device in and if you plugged in before the driver was installed you had to Regedit dive, etc). Haven't had any Windows driver issues that I can recall in the past year.


Can I uninstall iLife fully without having to reinstall or search down all of the hundreds of plist and other files left behind? Whats that? No? Thats what I thought.


"hundreds" of plist files? Prefs files are a few bytes, and there are a hand full of them in iLife. The hard disk clogging bits are easily removed by deleting the iLife apps from your Applications folder. Unlike Windows apps, iLife doesn't install DLLs in shared folders throughout the OS, so you don't have the "tendrils" of those applications buried throughout.


Only Apple's Windows software requires Windows restarts.

Apple can't make fun of Windows when its Apple's own shortcomings and poor programming skills that make it happen


WHAT??? Windows restarts by itself at least three times a week, and just about every piece of Windows software I've installed in the past year has required a restart (because it puts things into the DLL shared space and needs to make sure no one else is using the libs it is blowing away ...)


Less likely than having to repair disk permissions in OS X.


Repairing disk permissions in OS X is almost never actually necessary. It's a placebo handed out at the start of most fix-it instructions. Fortunately even if you do it every time it's recommended it takes about 5 seconds from start to finish, unlike the similar Windows placebo (reboot the computer).


Somehow Mac OS is immune to HDD failures? Let's not forget that OS X's file system is famous for needing "disk permissions" repaired as well.


See above. The file system is not famous for "needing" any such things. It's actually famous for being remarkably self-correcting.


Edit: I really do think its hilarious how Apple pokes fun of Windows need for drivers. Driver updates bring new features, enhance performance, and take care of any issues. With OS X, you're stuck with what Apple provides. You're entirely dependent on what they want you to have or not have. And we all know how Apple is about bringing new features to the table for free. I had a TV tuner for my desktop PCs. Thanks to driver updates, they added in MPEG-2 encoding and even progressive scan encoding. All for free. Driver updates in Windows have also dramatically increased performance on my GPUs throughout the years, and added features to the soundcards I have owned.


You are missing the point. The point is that, at least 2 years ago, you needed to update your drivers for almost every piece of Windows hardware prior to running the device. There were often "gotchas" with device driver installation which could cost you a lot of time if you went in without reading the instructions carefully.

Driver updates? I have updated drivers on hardware on my Mac several times, when a new feature comes available in the "driver" (really, almost always in the surrounding software, not the driver itself). While these drivers have often been more often updated on Windows, that's improving as Mac home marketshare has been improving.


It's also incredibly funny how Apple uses it as a downside, because of the fact that I can go buy a $400 desktop PC and throw any third party hardware I want in it and have it work. When was the last time I could buy an Apple desktop under $2,000 that had that sort of expandability? The current Mac Pro doesn't even offer that sort of expandability, seeing as how its limited to a very small number of PCIe slots, when most hardware is still PCI. And look at the notebooks! A limited number of ports, as well as only including a half-width ExpressCard slot and no docking station connector.

Only Apple would use their systems lack of features and expandability as a selling point.

To each his own. I personally don't miss the PS/2 and VGA and Parallel and Serial port connectors sticking out the back of my laptop (yes, even that Toshiba my sister in law bought less than six months ago sports those ports that were all the rage in 1991!)

Expandability? What kind of hardware are you seeing which is only available in PCI and not PCIe-compatible? I don't have a latest-model tower (my tower is a G5), but even then I had no trouble finding decent RAID and eSATA card for the specs.

[Treq]

The difference is that it is so much more helpful than OS X, which would simply close the program or make you stare at a beach ball.

Anyway, I'm liking these ads even more with each one - they're so effective - not only do they get the point across incredibly smoothly, they also get people talking online and questioning why they are spending so much more on a Mac.

The simple fact from this ad is that this girl got the same kind of performance as she'd get from a MacBook Pro for significantly less cash. The fact that the screen is *slightly* lower resolution and it's not made of metal is insignificant when you look at how much the machines cost.

Scroll up a couple of posts...:cool:

[pika2000]

* nearly ALL PC come with a restore disk so this is unnecessry
* my xps had two things on it that i had to un-install
* antivirus software not necessary
* Install printers and other peripherals only for networking or a newer printer. then again tell me why you wouldn't want the latest drivers
* Windows services what services should i be turning off
* Establish a system restore point optional

some pcs have more bloatware (as you call it) but 10 minutes customizing a pc goes a long way. Apple users don't customize their computers?
-3 out of 4 people on the ads picked HP. I've purchased plenty of HP PCs, and none of them come with a "restore disk." They only come with a restore partition where you have to make your own restore DVD. It's even worse if you want to do a clean install since you don't get an actual Windows install CD/DVD.
-Again, 3 out of 4 people on the ads picked HP. A standard HP PC comes pre-installed with a bunch of games/trial anti-virus/trial multimedia software and a ton of HP's own software/drivers. I've quite the "pleasure" of restoring HP PCs a bunch of times, and the time I spent uninstalling all those stuff are way longer than 10 minutes. Add on top of that the time spent figuring out which one to remove if you're a lay user. Startup a fresh HP PC out of the box, and count how many icons on the system tray.
-Just because you don't need anti-virus/use system restore, doesn't mean a regular PC users don't need them. Most users are not security experts. A person that only wants to "cut" video is probably not too savvy on PC security, so having an anti-virus is probably a good idea.
-More and more PC manufactures, including HP (which is picked 3 out of 4 on the ads) and Dell, install their 'bloatware' programs as services. They're not listed as regular startup programs. Tweaking services are also recommended for certain configurations, such as having an SSD drive.

[bruinsrme]

Wow, you must know how to pick HP laptops! My sister in law bought a Toshiba which came, from the factory, with 13 separate items in the "system notifications" area and over 20 unecessary applications running in the background after startup.

That's bloatware. Crap on the disk that's not running is a secondary concern. What I care about is that the PC I get isn't spending half its CPU cycles figuring out how to most annoyingly throw the next piece of advertising in my face.



Source?

I'm no FileVault expert, but I do know that the Fortune 500 company I work for trusts FileVault on its laptops and requires a $300-per-seat encryption equivalent on its Windows laptops.



Really? Last time I installed Tiger (10.4) there were two SU runs and a single restart to get it all the way from 10.4.0 to 10.4.11 (I think that is the latest in 10.4). Reinstalling Leopard required a single SU run and a single restart.

You, sir, are full of ****.



All this depends on the specific mix of hardware. I have to say this used to be a big deal (a lot of peripherals were simple plug-and-play on OS X while the Windows drivers needed updating before plugging the device in and if you plugged in before the driver was installed you had to Regedit dive, etc). Haven't had any Windows driver issues that I can recall in the past year.



"hundreds" of plist files? Prefs files are a few bytes, and there are a hand full of them in iLife. The hard disk clogging bits are easily removed by deleting the iLife apps from your Applications folder. Unlike Windows apps, iLife doesn't install DLLs in shared folders throughout the OS, so you don't have the "tendrils" of those applications buried throughout.



WHAT??? Windows restarts by itself at least three times a week, and just about every piece of Windows software I've installed in the past year has required a restart (because it puts things into the DLL shared space and needs to make sure no one else is using the libs it is blowing away ...)



Repairing disk permissions in OS X is almost never actually necessary. It's a placebo handed out at the start of most fix-it instructions. Fortunately even if you do it every time it's recommended it takes about 5 seconds from start to finish, unlike the similar Windows placebo (reboot the computer).



See above. The file system is not famous for "needing" any such things. It's actually famous for being remarkably self-correcting.



You are missing the point. The point is that, at least 2 years ago, you needed to update your drivers for almost every piece of Windows hardware prior to running the device. There were often "gotchas" with device driver installation which could cost you a lot of time if you went in without reading the instructions carefully.

Driver updates? I have updated drivers on hardware on my Mac several times, when a new feature comes available in the "driver" (really, almost always in the surrounding software, not the driver itself). While these drivers have often been more often updated on Windows, that's improving as Mac home marketshare has been improving.



To each his own. I personally don't miss the PS/2 and VGA and Parallel and Serial port connectors sticking out the back of my laptop (yes, even that Toshiba my sister in law bought less than six months ago sports those ports that were all the rage in 1991!)

Expandability? What kind of hardware are you seeing which is only available in PCI and not PCIe-compatible? I don't have a latest-model tower (my tower is a G5), but even then I had no trouble finding decent RAID and eSATA card for the specs.

Lots of fud there.
I especially like windows restarts itself 3 tiimes a week. Funny my desktops do the same exact thing but only after it downloads and installs updates.
Arguing about drivers is ridiculous. i never understood why anyone would want to use an OLd driver when a new driver can be download in a couple of minutes.
windows bad; mac good

[Eidorian]

Sorry. I forgot to finish that sentence. My original thought was that is there an app like AppZapper, AppDelete or such in Windows? (No, add/remove programs usually screws it up even more)

PS. even though Mac OS X's paradigm is a lot easier and faster...I haven't had any problems with Add/Remove Programs. CCleaner would be a similar utility when it comes to cleaning up your Windows machine. I enjoy the secure erasure packaging as well. That is something that Windows does lack for application data and user files.

I'm all for programs without installers at all. In fact many of my favorite Windows ones don't have installers. Sadly dealing with package installers with a bit of magic is something that happens regardless of the operating system.

I get talked down by the Linux crowd for the lack of a package manager in OS X. I'm not talking about fink or MacPorts either.

[atticus18244fsa]

The other ones had at least some truth. This one is garbage. Right now I'm a PC and I cringe when they start saying that that computer is going to be good for video editing.

[atticus18244fsa]

My budget is very good, I make money online with all my blogs and porn site that I create. I make $2 an hour non-stop thanks to advertising.

$2 an hour non-stop.

$2x24=$48 a day
$48x7=$336 a week
$336x4=$1344 a month
$1344x12=$16128 a year?

Is that your sole income stream because if so I'm pretty sure you're below the poverty line.

[DMann]

The difference is that it is so much more helpful than OS X, which would simply close the program or make you stare at a beach ball.

Anyway, I'm liking these ads even more with each one - they're so effective - not only do they get the point across incredibly smoothly, they also get people talking online and questioning why they are spending so much more on a Mac.

The simple fact from this ad is that this girl got the same kind of performance as she'd get from a MacBook Pro for significantly less cash. The fact that the screen is *slightly* lower resolution and it's not made of metal is insignificant when you look at how much the machines cost.Actually, the Conslole is extremely helpful in troubleshooting a problem, DLL Hell not being one of them. Unlike Windows apps, OS X apps do not install DLLs in shared folders scattered randomly throughout the OS, so that you don't have application bits and fragments disseminated all over, making updates more vulnerable to complications.

The ads do indirectly illuminate Apple's presence as a competitor - which only helps Apple, in that consumers who had previously wandered by their stores, will now more likely be enticed to wander in to have a look for themselves. With over 51% of purchases made by previous Windows users, anything which channels attention toward this strategy is certainly welcome.

[DMann]

See, Mac's are less expensive...:rolleyes:

I'm convinced of that.

[Pika]

$2 an hour non-stop.

$2x24=$48 a day
$48x7=$336 a week
$336x4=$1344 a month
$1344x12=$16128 a year?

Is that your sole income stream because if so I'm pretty sure you're below the poverty line.I gain 15k a year online alone + 50k a year as animator.

My job money goes to my survival and the online money goes to my luxury such as buying a new Apple toys every year.

[pellets007]

If upgrading RAM is cheap for the consumer, isn't it so for the manufacturer as well? I definitely would have bought a MBP if it had 4GB of RAM. I don't care how easy it is, for a 2K laptop I should be getting 4GB.

[Treq]

If upgrading RAM is cheap for the consumer, isn't it so for the manufacturer as well? I definitely would have bought a MBP if it had 4GB of RAM. I don't care how easy it is, for a 2K laptop I should be getting 4GB.

Considering the hours lost to downtime due to frequent restarts, system reinstalls, IT management, DLL Hell, driver problems, and continuous scans, the amount of lost income is daunting. Until we moved the majority of our systems to OSX, we accepted these annoyances as 'the norm' and have missed several deadlines as a result. Productivity took a 180º turn once we switched over to OS X - The stability of UNIX is unmatched, and we'll soon be 98% MAC by the end of the summer.

See, Mac's are less expensive...:rolleyes:

2k buys a lot...:D

[Melrose]

...and questioning why they are spending so much more on a Mac.

Pointing out the flaws of an ad isn't exactly the same as questioning my decisions. I hardly call pointing out the shortcomings of the HP subjects of these ads as compared to MacBooks and the pathetic comparisons being by Microsoft is 'questioning why we spend so much more for a Mac.'

When it's said, as in this context or example, that you cannot install Final Cut Pro on a Windows HP despite making the erroneous statement you're a video editor, it's not questioning why we bought a Mac - it's making the statement that an industry standard for completing the work you purport to do is not available if you buy a Windows HP.

</rant>

If upgrading RAM is cheap for the consumer, isn't it so for the manufacturer as well? I definitely would have bought a MBP if it had 4GB of RAM. I don't care how easy it is, for a 2K laptop I should be getting 4GB.
Even in this day and age, though, 4GB is overkill for most. I use Photoshop and Illustrator all the time, and have used 3D modeling apps in the past and 2GB has been very ample. My dad maxed out the RAM on his new iMac and for what he does it didn't make much of a difference at all. And $2,000 isn't bad for a high-end laptop, even with 2 gigs - especially when laptops aren't intended, necessarily, as day-to-day workhorses for the things that 4 gigs would make a difference in.

[DELLsFan]

Not the best commercial of the 4, to be sure. I'm starting to get annoyed with them.

The funny part here is, aren't all of these schmagoolies actors? Microsoft didn't pay for anyone's laptop. Isn't that a bit misleading?

:eek:

[Photek]

it smacks of desperation to me...

seriously... as a Mac user... we are using a premium product that it NOT intended for everyone.. I don't understand why people struggle with this concept...

its like Toyota running commercial's where their target market complains that a Bentley is too expensive... all about aesthetics... or only comes with 2 seats...

If they produced a REAL commercial they would find that 85% of the world bought Windows... but 80% of them wanted to roll back Vista to XP, 20% wanted a Mac but 10% of them were turned off that idea as the computer staff don't get commission for selling Apple products and force fed them Windows boxes... then the remaining 5% want Linux.

[angemon89]

I wonder why they changed all the desktops to the panther wallpaper.


By the looks of it, they're inside Frys.

[Treq]

it smacks of desperation to me...

seriously... as a Mac user... we are using a premium product that it NOT intended for everyone.. I don't understand why people struggle with this concept...

its like Toyota running commercial's where their target market complains that a Bentley is too expensive... all about aesthetics... or only comes with 2 seats...

If they produced a REAL commercial they would find that 85% of the world bought Windows... but 80% of them wanted to roll back Vista to XP, 20% wanted a Mac but 10% of them were turned off that idea as the computer staff don't get commission for selling Apple products and force fed them Windows boxes... then the remaining 5% want Linux.

Mac=Win!
Win=Fail!
Linux=Geek!
:D

But seriously, I'm a film-maker, and we mostly use Mac's and those who don't, wish they did...

[designgeek]

I also agree. It is just stupid when Sheila says the MBP doesn't have as much RAM as the other computers. What many people do not know about Macs that have not used them much is that they don't need nearly as much RAM compared to Vista. A Mac running Leopard should be able to run better than Vista with only 1/4 of the memory. And if Sheila really needs more memory, its called order 4GB from OWC for only $50.

Apple needs to fight back with a commercial that lets new computer buyers know this.

This is true about the ram. I'm running 4GB in my MBP and I've never had less than .99GB in free ram for a while I actually thought somethings was wrong. I'll run stuff like iMovie, Safari, iTunes, and a few other things and always about a gig of nothing happening.

[22Hertz]

Apple should air this same add and in big letters at the bottom of the screen put
"This Advertisement Made on a Mac"
:D