Amazon Launches Kindle DX eBook Reader with 9.7" Screen

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/05/06/amazon-launches-kindle-dx-ebook-reader-with-9-7-screen/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2009/05/06/111723-kindle_dx.jpeg


Engadget has just wrapped up live coverage (http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/06/live-from-amazons-kindle-event-in-nyc/) of Amazon's press event introducing the Kindle DX (http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-DX-Amazons-Wireless-Generation/dp/B0015TCML0/), the next generation of Amazon's eBook reader. The Kindle DX, now available for pre-order at a price of $489 for shipment this summer, contains a 9.7" screen and is being positioned as a device for reading documents such as newspapers, textbooks, and research journal articles whose formats have not worked ideally with the smaller 6" screen of the current Kindle 2 model.

The Kindle DX features a built-in accelerometer that allows for auto-rotation of content between portrait and landscape orientations, and increased storage over the Kindle 2 of 3.3 GB, which provides space for up to 3,500 books periodicals, and documents. Like the Kindle 2, which will remain available at its current price of $359, the Kindle DX offers free 3G access through Sprint's network to allow downloading of content on the go. Native PDF support is also included.

The Boston Globe, The New York Times and The Washington Post are all planning to offer long-term subscriptions for Kindle newspaper editions at discounted prices.

Many people have viewed the Kindle as a competitor to the iPhone's eBook capabilities, with a Kindle for iPhone (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/03/04/amazon-releases-free-kindle-for-iphone-application/) application also offering compatibility with Amazon's service on the iPhone. Rumors of an Apple "media pad" (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/27/two-new-devices-from-apple-category-defining-media-pad-and-iphone-lite/) that could provide more direct competition to the Kindle on the eBook front have also been circulating in recent weeks.

Article Link: Amazon Launches Kindle DX eBook Reader with 9.7" Screen (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/05/06/amazon-launches-kindle-dx-ebook-reader-with-9-7-screen/)

[Grimace]

Kinda pricey...

And color would have been nice at that price...even if it killed the battery off quickly.

[Don't panic]

if it browses databases/journals, reads pdfs and is in color, it could be a very useful tool for the scientific community.

[MacDaddy901]

It's going to be said a million times again, but that is way too much.

[talkingfuture]

As I said on the other thread:

I stick by what I said when the kindle 2.0 came out

It won't take off until it can do colour and replicate a magazine or a text book in full. I still think Amazon's long term goal is to "Kindle" the market and become the leading ebook seller when the hardware big boys get involved.

[Hattig]

Hmm, it simply costs too much, the displays must be horribly expensive. Still you need devices like this to drive improvements in technology until they are cheap and as good as you and I want.

[india349]

Useful, but certainly expensive. I thought this was going to be cheaper, considering the rumors mentioned, to the best of my knowledge, that students could use it for text books.

Then again, I've seen school text books go for $200+

Looks like Kindle 2 it is, for me at least.

[rdowns]

Too expensive for a single purpose device.

College kids won't spend their money on this. Text books are already so damn expensive and why would publishers lower their prices when you have no choice to buy the book?

Amazon should be giving these away. Give them the razor and make your money on the blades.

[mciarlo]

If the Kindle display ever goes color, I'll take that in my iPhone please. No more pixelation!

[Apple Ink]

Um... $500 for "just" a 'newspaper' is a wee bit too much!

And I see its still black! DOes e-ink even come in color??

[NinjaHERO]

A great step in the right direction. Can't wait to see the next model update.

[iSee]

Ouch, very pricey.

Regarding color, is that realistic to hope for at this point? Is e-ink technology there yet? I mean I've seen plenty of articles with titles like "Is color e-ink right around the corner?" but it never sound like it really is.

[MrRN]

I guess it has a notch. BUT NOT FOR MAC FANS!!!!!

[tdhurst]

Would love one, but that's ridiculous. Why aren't they going the cell phone route by subsidizing the unit and then charging a monthly fee? Seems to have worked for EVERY CELL PHONE CARRIER OUT THERE.

[amac4me]

Overall, a nice device from Amazon. Clearly a move to build a platform that brings content publishers and readers together.

The deals with the top news papers is a very strong move on Amazon's part.

[jb1280]

I'm curious what the partnerships are going to look like with the textbook publishers.

I can't see a student buying one, paying full price for a textbook except with a 10% discount, and not being able to sell the book back at the end of the term.

[ltcol266845]

Dang it!!!!!!!!!!! :mad::mad:

I just bought one less than a month ago. I would gladly have spent another $100 for the bigger screen..

[fastbite]

[QUOTE=rdowns;7575977]Too expensive for a single purpose device.
Single use? We can use that thing as an umbrella too.

[iPhoneNYC]

Gee, 500 bucks is pretty steep. How much do you think they'll be in close-out?

[lucidmedia]

I guess it has a notch. BUT NOT FOR MAC FANS!!!!!

Why not? I use my kindle 2 when I travel (which is a lot) and it works wonderfully with my iphone and 2 mac laptops...

While I can see the use of the large screens (i would like to have more PDFs on my kindle) its a bit too large for me.

[zoezoezoe]

I want one badly. But I'm not paying nearly 500 bucks for it. Reading on the iPhone is a joke and pretty impossible unless you don't want to have eye sight by the time you're 40.

If this thing was around 200 bucks, they would sell millions of them. Devices like this could save news "papers".

[lucidmedia]

I'm curious what the partnerships are going to look like with the textbook publishers.

I can't see a student buying one, paying full price for a textbook except with a 10% discount, and not being able to sell the book back at the end of the term.

exactly, but I have heard that they will be giving them out at certain schools / programs. I can see a quite different business model based on rental/semester fees..

[fracai]

All the "too pricey" and "single purpose" comments sound an awful lot like the complaints about the original iPods.

[BG-Mac]

"Trying" to soften the blow of WWDC. Bring on the iTablet!! :D

As another poster said though it looks like Amazon is trying to position themselves to sell eBooks, not devices.

[ChrisA]

Would love one, but that's ridiculous. Why aren't they going the cell phone route by subsidizing the unit and then charging a monthly fee? Seems to have worked for EVERY CELL PHONE CARRIER OUT THERE.


I agree, sort of. Let's say I read 12 books a year. If Ibuy a paper book I don't need a $400 reader. If I buy an e-book then I need the $400 reader. If the e-books were actually priced low enough then I'd invest in a reader so I could save money one books later. But Anazon sells the e-books at almost paper book price.

Amazon needs to get the entire package price to be comparable to what I pay now ageraged over the three year life of the reader.

[SolRayz]

my prediction: total flop

[talkingfuture]

For those interested in colour screens GigaOm had an interesting piece about them yesterday

http://gigaom.com/2009/05/05/vogue-on-your-ereader-new-e-paper-tech-will-make-it-happen/

They are coming eventually.

[diilbert]

The irony is that the Boston Globe is poised to shutdown in 60 days.

[igazza]

It looks kinda funky but its black and white, why ?

[JayLenochiniMac]

if it browses databases/journals, reads pdfs and is in color, it could be a very useful tool for the scientific community.

Just get a MBA and you have a computer to boot. www.pubmed.org is public and is what the scientific community uses.

[jamesnajera]

Hmm, it simply costs too much, the displays must be horribly expensive. Still you need devices like this to drive improvements in technology until they are cheap and as good as you and I want.

Do you really think the displays are expensive? I think the Kindle display is equivalent to a 1980's Gameboy screen. Amazon is probably using those displays for profit and battery life. I would love to see a breakdown of raw cost for the new kindle.

I hope Apple does get into the ebook market, they can easily beat the price of the kindle and already have a a way better OS to run on their device.

One thing I know for sure is that amazon did have to get something like this out, because the Hearst family is making a epaper for all the newspaper companys they own.

[jaison13]

it is a great device, it is easier to read than on a computer, but 600?? if it was say 300 i'd consider it. who is buying these at that price? it's not like the books ar free once you buy it.

[Paulyboy]

I wish I had $500 to blow on this. Well actually if I did I'd probably buy a Mac Mini instead and use it as a media center. It's a really nice device though. My iPod Touch 2G will suffice until Kindle's are cheaper,

As nice as it is I still don't get the newspaper aspect. Why would you want to pay bloated newspaper subscription fees for outdated news when you can go online and get the same content free and updated to the minute?

-PN

[gojira]

This thing is just too limited for the size and price. It seems like an interim product that will have an extremely short life, unless Amazon has some ambitious plans for it as some sort of mobile platform. Even then the competition is fierce.

The appeal of the iPhone/iPod touch (not that they're comparable) is that they COMBINE and EXTEND several devices into one. iPod, PDA, pocket email and web browser, gaming platform, cell phone or Skype. It can even be used as a remote and with OS 3, data acquisition.

So the Kindle does one thing AND it's big, it's expensive the design is boring. 4GB of RAM is a joke for that price. If it could even play music, that would be nice, but it doesn't. For the price, you've got half a MacBook or some POS DOSBox.

[alphaod]

Wow; that looks really nice, but it's kind of big; the Kindle 2 is the perfect size; read about some universities giving these to students and loading textbooks on them: that I wouldn't mind getting; sure the price would be integrated into our already monstrous tuition prices, but since we're already paying 6 figures for college how much more could it get? :rolleyes:


For the price, you've got half a MacBook or some POS DOSBox.

Let's see your MacBook last a week on one charge with continuous use. Try staring at that screen for hours on end.

Your just comparison is like comparing a book to a gameboy.

[jaison13]

Do you really think the displays are expensive? I think the Kindle display is equivalent to a 1980's Gameboy screen. Amazon is probably using those displays for profit and battery life. I would love to see a breakdown of raw cost for the new kindle.

I hope Apple does get into the ebook market, they can easily beat the price of the kindle and already have a a way better OS to run on their device.

One thing I know for sure is that amazon did have to get something like this out, because the Hearst family is making a epaper for all the newspaper companys they own.

from what i read it is a special kin of display that almost looks like paper. very easy on your eyes.

[jb1280]

All the "too pricey" and "single purpose" comments sound an awful lot like the complaints about the original iPods.

This is true.

That said, there is no way to put a book you already own on the Kindle without purchasing the Kindle version.

Generally speaking, Kindle versions of books do not represent good value, particularly academic texts at the moment.

Kindle will not really take off until decent deals between publishers and Amazon take place. Unfortunately textbook publishers were not in the position record labels were in in 2003.

There have always been people who have criticized the iPod for forcing people to use the iTunes store to load it despite the reality. The Kindle is the manifestation of that reality.

[vjl323]

I just saw, in person, the smaller Kindle and was very impressed with the screen; nothing like a 90's GameBoy. But I didn't like it was so small nor that it lacked touch features. Buttons seem so "yesterday", esp. with a device that size.

The DX really needs touch features, esp. if it is going to remove the left-side buttons! The 2nd generation of Kindle was big on announcing that the buttons were on either side, which is great for lefties. Now they've gone back to square one and removed the buttons on the left side? Meh.

I do like the large screen though. Just wish it had a touch screen.

/vjl/

[ltcol266845]

Do you really think the displays are expensive? I think the Kindle display is equivalent to a 1980's Gameboy screen.

Quite obviously you do not know what you are talking about. Or don't remember the 1980's Gameboy. The screens are VERY different with VERY different purposes. Not to mention 20 years of separation.

Look at a Kindle live in action, then you will understand.

[Shiner]

Just get a MBA and you have a computer to boot. www.pubmed.org is public and is what the scientific community uses.

Not sure of your point. pudmed is free but the articles are not. A kindle that was in color and could store my 2,000 PDF articles on the go would be great. This one is a joke for any scientist. Like you said a laptop and a decent hardrive is still the best way. As far as pubmed, well your university and your grant money pay for the articles- but it is not free.

[adrian.oconnor]

Wow, so many whiners on MR these days. I think I'm going to have to skip the forums (or find another Mac site) if people don't stop responding to every single story with one-line complaints about price and/or features. It's getting silly.

I realise that I'm having a bit of a whine myself, but meh, I don't care ;)

As for the larger Kindle, I think it looks like a great device. I wonder if you can disable the auto-rotate thing? That's one feature in Safari on the iPhone that drives me mad -- trying to read a lengthy page while lying/slouching at an angle is impossible because it keeps flipping orientation!

I've not seen a real-life Kindle, because I live in the UK and Amazon have (understandably) decided to concentrate on the US market (to keep the whole rights business nice and simple I imagine), but I have seen a Sony reader and the B&W screens are amazing -- really easy on the eye compared to LCDs and very legible. I don't have one, but I am very tempted. I'd probably want the smaller size though, to make it a little bit more portable.

I can't wait until this tech really takes off and we can buy all of our books online. It'll be a major step forward, and it'll save me a lot of weighty boxes when I move house :)

[bmacir]

Too expensive for a single purpose device.

Amazon should be giving these away. Give them the razor and make your money on the blades.

Would love one, but that's ridiculous. Why aren't they going the cell phone route by subsidizing the unit and then charging a monthly fee? Seems to have worked for EVERY CELL PHONE CARRIER OUT THERE.

I agree that it's pricey, BUT I must say that it looks like a very cool product. The iPhone is a multi purpose item and is very handy because it can do multiple tasks, however it doesn't substitute other single purpose devices like gps or e-book readers.

The iPhone must function primarily as a phone, you can use it as an ipod, gps or game station or to surf the web once in a while (these capabilities make it unique), but you still need the other devices which are better for the single tasks since they are made specifically for it (e.g. you would rather read a book on a kindle than an iPhone or use tomtom since it has a larger screen and a better gps antenna, preloaded maps, etc.). The iPhone battery would drain in 30 min if you use all its functions for everyday tasks.

[BMWFan]

It's really funny reading all these "too expensive" comments from Apple users! What was the argument when MS claimed Macs were too expensive? "it doesn't do what you want".

[redrabbit]

I'm curious what the partnerships are going to look like with the textbook publishers.

I can't see a student buying one, paying full price for a textbook except with a 10% discount, and not being able to sell the book back at the end of the term.


Hey, can you tell me where you got this 10% discount figure? Besides out of your ass, that is....thanks for the help!

[gibbz]

I think people here would be surprised at the number of reading aficionados out there. Will this have the worldwide success of the iPhone, not likely, but it will find its niche and do well.

Heck, I laughed at the Kindle 1 when my girlfriend got it. But after using it for awhile, I became a big fan and just recently got the Kindle 2. They are great devices.

As for all of the "that's too pricey comments", puuhhhleeease. Most of us on here have purchased Macs and iPods and iPhones as early adopters at quite a premium. Does this thing do as much as the iPhone or Macs? No. But people will pay for what they like and there will be plenty of people who will like this.

I really like the textbook idea assuming they make it worth the while as far as prices of content.

[skellener]

Everybody whining about "no color" and "too expensive". Well, this product is NOT for you then is it? The original Kindle did quite well in B+W. For people who read text (i.e. books) it's perfect. As for price, the iPhone was $600 when it debuted with a very small screen and no app store plus a two year commitment and a high monthly rate. This is a one time fee. Books are generally $10. Readers will dig this. I bet this Kindle sells better than the last one. It's not an iPhone killer, but that was never the intention of this device.

[adrian.oconnor]

I wonder if you can disable the auto-rotate thing? That's one feature in Safari on the iPhone that drives me mad -- trying to read a lengthy page while lying/slouching at an angle is impossible because it keeps flipping orientation!


To answer my own question, it looks like you can disable auto-rotation on the Kindle. What a smart design feature! I wish there was some way to do the same on the iPhone -- anybody know if I'm missing a trick?

[qbricc]

The bad news for the kindle is that the defenders of higher priced computers and MP3 players first reaction is how much!

Just think about how outrageous it would sound if we all used PCs.

Like the first batch of MP3 players the price will drop over time and we will start to see more products enter the market place, then wait a year and watch Apple kill them all.

[dolphin842]

I applaud Amazon for continuing to promote this type of the device. At such a price though, I doubt it will see wide adoption for the time being. I imagine Apple will continue to bide its time and then release its own color, do-everything tablet once the technology gets settled.

[ivladster]

If Apple made same thing and priced it at $500, people wouldn't complain but quietly march to Apple store and buy it for each member if their family.

LOL

[frogger2020]

The price would be just right and would be the greatest thing since sliced bread!

[wizard]

And no I don't want a subsidized solution. The unit does need to reflect the cost of the underlying hardware though. If the hardware is to expensive to lower the price of the unit then Amazon has the wrong solution. Simple as that.

Beyond price here are a few things to consider as negatives.
1.
Not enough flash storage! This device cries out for at least 8GB, ideally 16GB if storage. It is a question of value for the money, the more you can store in the base unit the more the price becomes less of a problem.
2.
The issue of Color comes up and in this case I'm of mixed opinion. I'd like color, even marginal color, but I have to acknowledge that few of the documents I read need it. A lot of that due to old PDFs targetted at laser printers. The reality is that that is a thing of the past and color is important going forward.
3.
For me that single task functionality is an issue. That right there has me waiting to see what Apple does. Of course that implies a full color display, even more RAM and flash. In the end I want more for my money.
4.
That keyboard adds to much bulk to the unit.
5.
Consummer friendly batteries!



Dave.

[jb1280]

Hey, can you tell me where you got this 10% discount figure? Besides out of your ass, that is....thanks for the help!

Until it becomes apparent otherwise, the discount for Kindle versions of academic texts to date is generally very nominal.

A text of mine is $111 in a hardback book and $89 in a Kindle version. Granted it's slightly larger than 10% discount, but if a student pays $89 for an electronic version that is non-transferrable to be read on a $500 device, versus paying $111 and being able to get at least $60 back reselling the book, I know what I would advise the student to do.

[Speedy2]

All the "too pricey" and "single purpose" comments sound an awful lot like the complaints about the original iPods.

The original iPod was far from successful. Only the much cheaper and more powerful 4G version really took off.

[Shiner]

my prediction: total flop

I normally don't agree with such comments but on this occasion I agree completely. I can't figure out the market. I was excited about this announcement as a college professor but I can't for the life of me figure out the target audience. College students buy textbooks and return them at the end of the semester for 40-50% of purchase price. Will this reader allow this price on textbooks? No color for PDF's and textbooks means a no go for all of my papers for class as well as two of my textbooks. Oh well I guess people that want to pay a premium to read regular books on the go will buy this but that might be the only people.

[jamesryanbell]

It's going to be said a million times again, but that is way too much.

Exactly. For that much, you should have a color OPTION, and a CRAPLOAD more storage.

[dooker777]

Kindle would grab a lot more users at $99. I know these things are expensive, so I'm not suggesting that this makes financial sense. But my feeling is that at around $99 a LOT more people would be willing to pay for it for the convenience. $400+ is a lot. Maybe in a couple of years it will happen. Then students can have their books with them all the time with their kindle DX and lighten their backpacks. Faculty would have articles, books, etc.,... lots of potential uses.

Now the fly in the ointment to Amazon's plan is if apple or someone else comes out with a tablet netbook thingy that could do the same thing, plus email, web surfing, iTunes, etc... for the same price or less.

e-textbooks already exist on the web, and students have laptops. So this Kindle thing is vulnerable to technological advances by "all-in-one" gadgets.

[tomgerber]

something I never got: How can anybody consider the iphone a ebook-reader. The screen is much to small, you can't even hold the device conveniently for half an hour. you will never loose yourself in a story that way. are there really people readin ebooks on the iphone? videos and games, all good but ebook? come on.....

[magamo]

I really want one. It's too tempting. Being a reading addict myself, I hear it say, "Resistance is futile."

[bobbleheadbob]

I have the Kindle 2 and love it for what it is. Not a big fan of the Kindle app on the iPhone, but only because the main advantage and allure of the Kindle for me is the electronic ink. It really does bring a book-like feel to the e-reading experience.

Kindle DX seems fine for people who mainly want to read newspapers (and have the money to spend up front), but I'm happy with what I have now.

[alphaod]

Also just read that the Kindle DX supports PDFs; does this mean we'll see the PDF capability pushed out to Kindle 2 (and maybe Kindle 1) owners?

[Speedy2]

If Apple made same thing and priced it at $500, people wouldn't complain but quietly march to Apple store and buy it for each member if their family.

LOL

You mean the same way everyone is buying Apple TVs ?

[pagansoul]

I've have a Kindle 1 & 2 (gave to mother #1when I got the Kindle 2) and love them both. I am a book reader, 2 a week and not strange to be reading 3 at a time. The Kindle DX does have a market. If you read newspapers, and yes, there are people who read them every day and not off a computer, or have large text books that you have to lug around at school or work, this is great. E-ink readers are nothing like a computer screen. It last for days without charge, not 3 hours. No color (still too expensive to make) so its great for things that normally come in black/white/gray. I expected it to be at $500 and it is, for now. Amazon is working with some media companies to get subscriptions at a discount and whispernet is part of the package. Being able to download out of the air is fantastic.

Will I get the DX, not this time around, my Kindle 2 is still too young and I don't read newspapers anywhere as much as books. I like the size of the Kindle 2 but I would have no problem with getting one if I was in school or in a job that had material that could be used on it.

[beez1717]

man, I'd love a kindle, but they are so darn expensive. now what?

LOL maybe I will have to like wait and get this as my big xmas gift or something as i've already had my birthday...

[str1f3]

It's really funny reading all these "too expensive" comments from Apple users! What was the argument when MS claimed Macs were too expensive? "it doesn't do what you want".

That's right I complain. A Mac can do much more than a Kindle. You should also ask the ad agency that makes the laptop hunters for Microsoft why they use Macs as well. Maybe they'll give you the explanation you're looking for.

[huntercr]

This is exactly the screen size that Apple ordered recently is it not?
Things that make you go Hmmmm...

[jb1280]

I've have a Kindle 1 & 2 (gave to mother #1when I got the Kindle 2) and love them both. I am a book reader, 2 a week and not strange to be reading 3 at a time. The Kindle DX does have a market. If you read newspapers, and yes, there are people who read them every day and not off a computer, or have large text books that you have to lug around at school or work, this is great.

I think the Kindle will be successful among those who digest paperbacks for leisure and are into the whole newspaper thing. I know people who go through 4 or 5 paperbacks a week and never look at them again. They take up room and are generally almost disposable.

For education and academia, I feel the Kindle has a long way to go to be viable.

[rdowns]

Not having these in places where consumers can touch and feel them will hurt. Most want to see tech in action before they buy it.

[tobefirst]

I'm not sure I understand those clammoring for more storage. The thing already holds 3500 books. I understand that some .pdfs can be much larger in size, but really?

[HiRez]

500 bucks? Seriously? Wow, good luck with that, Amazon. Personally I think they'd sell a lot more of the e-books (inkjet cartriges, razor blades, video games, etc.) if they dropped the price to under $250 (or even slightly above cost), but that's just me. Not only that, but cutting the price and producing as many as possible should drop manufacturing costs as well, either allowing them to sell it even cheaper, or reap larger profit margins in the future.

I would be on amazon.com ordering one right now at $200-$250 (and most likely another for my mom and another for my gf), but $500 is just crazy IMO. I don't consider myself cheap either, as I've bought many, many, many expensive gadgets over the years (Macs, stereos, tvs, cameras, phones/iPods).

[str1f3]

I think the Kindle will be successful among those who digest paperbacks for leisure and are into the whole newspaper thing. I know people who go through 4 or 5 paperbacks a week and never look at them again. They take up room and are generally almost disposable.

For education and academia, I feel the Kindle has a long way to go to be viable.

I think it's useless for academics. I've always thought a tablet was the best solution. Even more so than a notebook. The problem is that tablets are too expensive. If Apple came in at $600-$700 (maybe even less) it will be the perfect choice for students.

[Shivetya]

Textbook replacement is where it is all at.

they could revolutionize college campuses as well as make the lives of student's easier if all the books could come on this.

[blurredline]

Textbook replacement is where it is all at.

they could revolutionize college campuses as well as make the lives of student's easier if all the books could come on this.

Agreed. I would kill to have this for university. Then I won't have 40lb's sitting on my shoulder walking around campus anymore! But, of course, Canada doesn't get this fine piece of electronics.:mad:

[wizard]

...........

As nice as it is I still don't get the newspaper aspect. Why would you want to pay bloated newspaper subscription fees for outdated news when you can go online and get the same content free and updated to the minute?

-PN
Well covering local news still requires local reporting and editorial effort. If newspapers want to survive this is very important. For example the local traditional newspaper is suffering here but the business journal and the locally focused papers not so much. Yahoo simply isn't going to do news for Webster NY the way the local rags can. Things like local sports and business just don't generate national interest.

Notably Yahoo is adding local coverage too. However it remains to be seen if it will be acceptable.

Long term yah paper news is dead and thankfully so. To much leftist power concentrated into these old guard news organizations.


Dave

[Spades]

This is the first Kindle that makes some sense. The only type of books you would need to carry a whole library of are reference books, and this is the first one that will actually work with those types of books. This one might sell to professionals, especially if they can get their company to pay for it.

They're dreaming if they think students will buy this. What student is going to pay $500 for the "privilege" of being able to buy books that you can't loan to somebody or sell back at the end of the class?

[redrabbit]

Until it becomes apparent otherwise, the discount for Kindle versions of academic texts to date is generally very nominal.

A text of mine is $111 in a hardback book and $89 in a Kindle version. Granted it's slightly larger than 10% discount, but if a student pays $89 for an electronic version that is non-transferrable to be read on a $500 device, versus paying $111 and being able to get at least $60 back reselling the book, I know what I would advise the student to do.

I just looked up a random textbook of mine. New, it sells for $102. On the Kindle, it sells for $43. Does that make your point moot?

[gloss]

Do you really think the displays are expensive? I think the Kindle display is equivalent to a 1980's Gameboy screen. Amazon is probably using those displays for profit and battery life. I would love to see a breakdown of raw cost for the new kindle.


Link (http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/04/22/kindle.2.cost.breakdown/).

The Kindle 2 costs $185, or more than an iPhone, to make. The screen panel alone costs $60.

Also just read that the Kindle DX supports PDFs; does this mean we'll see the PDF capability pushed out to Kindle 2 (and maybe Kindle 1) owners?

Probably not. But honestly, it's so easy to convert them, either for free through Amazon's e-mail service or using Mac/PC software like Calibre, that it hardly matters.

[mac jones]

Apple has to get on the ball.

[gloss]

They're dreaming if they think students will buy this. What student is going to pay $500 for the "privilege" of being able to buy books that you can't sell back at the end of the class?

Colleges could easily fold the cost of a Kindle DX into tuition, as some colleges do for the gratis laptops they hand out to their students. Imagine if each student received a Kindle DX their freshman year, and every class had a registered 'stack' of books that they could easily purchase and download through an Amazon portal?

And if the books only cost 25-50% of what they did for physical copies, I don't think there'd be much complaining.

[jb1280]

Textbook replacement is where it is all at.

they could revolutionize college campuses as well as make the lives of student's easier if all the books could come on this.

I don't deal with theories of education, but I see two preconditions for this to revolutionize college campuses:

1. It's led by publishers and universities in some sort of huge volume licensing that takes place, in a similar manner that some publishing houses have journal packages. Amazon can't do it with the device itself.

2. Start with first graders, and get an entire generation starting to learn with this type of reader. Getting students to change the entire way they interact with books so late in the process just seems to be too large of a structural challenge to overcome.

A decade from now there might be inroads.

[Diode]

Um... $500 for "just" a 'newspaper' is a wee bit too much!

And I see its still black! DOes e-ink even come in color??

Why yes, yes it does.

http://www.eink.com/press/images/highres_downloads/E_Ink_Color_Prototype_Gutenberg_1005_MD.jpg

[redrabbit]

I like the idea of having easily searchable textbooks that you can save clippings from and annotate.

[jb1280]

I just looked up a random textbook of mine. New, it sells for $102. On the Kindle, it sells for $43. Does that make your point moot?


I will concede the point as moot if Pearson or Wiley are willing to sell their entire catalog of textbooks as Kindle versions at 50% of the cost of a print version.

Edit: We are also neglecting the entire issue of students buying used textbooks and then reselling used textbooks.

[Thoros]

If Apple partners up with Pixel Qi, it will blow this thing away. I applaud Amazon for pushing ebooks so hard but current readers remain so "1.0".

Now if that rumored iTabled/iPad/iCoffeetableBook could have a screen from Pixel Qi, there are millions to be made. All the benefits of color and e-ink, video, fast refresh rates,... WWDC should be here already!

[Chekote]

Would love one, but that's ridiculous. Why aren't they going the cell phone route by subsidizing the unit and then charging a monthly fee? Seems to have worked for EVERY CELL PHONE CARRIER OUT THERE.

Oh god please no. I would never have bought one if they did that. The last thing I need is another damn monthly bill.

[Diode]

Do you really think the displays are expensive? I think the Kindle display is equivalent to a 1980's Gameboy screen. Amazon is probably using those displays for profit and battery life. I would love to see a breakdown of raw cost for the new kindle.

Read into e-ink displays before making a statement like that. The screens only draw power when changing - not while displaying. A typical e-ink display uses no backlight or frontlight and can be easily viewed from almost any angle and under virtually any lighting condition - A big difference then a "gameboy" screen from the 80's.

[JayLenochiniMac]

Not sure of your point. pudmed is free but the articles are not. A kindle that was in color and could store my 2,000 PDF articles on the go would be great. This one is a joke for any scientist. Like you said a laptop and a decent hardrive is still the best way. As far as pubmed, well your university and your grant money pay for the articles- but it is not free.

Full text articles are free and must be made available to the general public if NIH funds the work, but yes, you need paid access in order to get the pdf version. You get essentially the same information, just in a prettier format. Any serious scientist in a decent research lab has access one way or another and can load the pdfs onto a MBA.

[ebrunn]

price point is set. Apple's move.

[dooker777]

One other aspect for Amazon is that their primary goal is to create the dominate e-format. The kindle is cool but expensive. It may not be intended for a large market share at all, at least short term. If they release/will release kindle for iPhone and iTablet, for PCs, Macs, textbooks, then they win the format war, and will be a dominant content provider into the future.

[MikhailT]

1) Color e-ink is still in experimental stage of development, there is no eink color screen in production anywhere
2) eINK display is not same thing as 1980's gameboy
3) 500$ for 9.7" screen is actually cheap, there are others that is around 9-10" and sells for 800-1000$
4) Over 70% of Kindle buyers are over the age of 60 (i might have this wrong, i can't remember the numbers but the majority was old people)
5) Some people are not going to always buy books. They may already have the ebook collection, just no device to read it on. Tablets are usually too heavy and don't last long on a charge to be used for reading.
6) Wait a couple of more years, they will continue to get better and cheaper. I'm hoping for 11x8 screen size Kindle for 250$ in a couple of years with color.
7) Somebody mentioned it is easy to convert PDF kindle forgot to mention it doesn't work well with tables and graphics. Having PDF built in Kindle means it should be able to show tables and graphics as it is intended to be shown.

[longwood]

I'm a student and would definitely buy one when they come out...

























As long as it comes preinstalled with all the textbooks I would ever need. Ever.

[InTheUnion]

Kinda pricey...

And color would have been nice at that price...even if it killed the battery off quickly.

It's come to something if Mac people are saying it's too pricey ;)

[jackiecanev2]

Wirelessly posted (BB 8900: Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

I've been contemplating an irex for quite some time, for all of my PDF journals and articles. The DX clocks in about $200 less, which I'm ok with.

[spazzcat]

Sell it for $100 and I would buy it right now. $489, no way...

[Westside guy]

Good grief - the pricing is ridiculous. I could buy a poor-quality laptop for that price. I'm sure they're expensive to build, so I suppose it's possible this is just an idea who's time hasn't come yet (like the Newton was); but I suspect these one-function devices will have the tech lifespan of PDAs and have the added drawback of never escaping their niche status.

[Goona]

The price would be just right and would be the greatest thing since sliced bread!

Stop with these useless comments, so people can't complain it's expensive.

[Mac21ND]

Call me crazy, but I still just prefer an old fashioned book made of paper.... :p

[Shiner]

Colleges could easily fold the cost of a Kindle DX into tuition, as some colleges do for the gratis laptops they hand out to their students. Imagine if each student received a Kindle DX their freshman year, and every class had a registered 'stack' of books that they could easily purchase and download through an Amazon portal?

And if the books only cost 25-50% of what they did for physical copies, I don't think there'd be much complaining.

Agreed, as I mentioned earlier it has the potential to be great but no color and price of textbooks make this a no go on college campuses.

[BRLawyer]

Repeating what I said in another forum, and paraphrasing what SJ said for BR, it's a damn bag of hurt. The Kindle, in any of its variants, is an unremarkable piece of expensive CRAP, despite Amazon's "good" intentions.

Almost 500 dollars for a monochromatic, bulky and extremely limited device? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

And no, comparisons with similar comments for the iPod when it was first launched are not appropriate. The versatility of Apple's media players has been, from day one, WAY higher than that of the Kindle. A nice effort by Amazon, but that's all...no relevant markets are gonna replace their paper matter en masse, and few students will adopt it as the de facto substitute for textbooks.

The Kindle is just a nice device, whose potential will surely be better explored in much better iterations by companies like Apple. The KINDLE IS DEAD.

[Goona]

The original iPod was far from successful. Only the much cheaper and more powerful 4G version really took off.

Ermm no, the iPod became successful when released for Windows.

[Westside guy]

Full text articles are free and must be made available to the general public if NIH funds the work, but yes, you need paid access in order to get the pdf version. You get essentially the same information, just in a prettier format. Any serious scientist in a decent research lab has access one way or another and can load the pdfs onto a MBA.

There's a bill in the senate right now that would rescind the free access provisions. The scientific press wants us to fund the research and then have to pay to see the results.

The driving force behind this is Senator John Conyers, D-Michigan.

[Shiner]

Full text articles are free and must be made available to the general public if NIH funds the work, but yes, you need paid access in order to get the pdf version. You get essentially the same information, just in a prettier format. Any serious scientist in a decent research lab has access one way or another and can load the pdfs onto a MBA.

LOL you must not be a scientist. I have used pubmed everyday for the last 10 years. In order to have electronic access to all journals on pubmed your school would go broke. Your statement about NIH funds is only partially correct believe me.

[surferfromuk]

I'd say Apple better get something to market damn quickly because I want something like this.

5 years from now, future generations of devices like this will be the only way people read anymore.

[mdriftmeyer]

if it browses databases/journals, reads pdfs and is in color, it could be a very useful tool for the scientific community.

All of that would be extra services.

From Amazon:

Wireless: 3G wireless lets you download books right from your Kindle DX, anytime, anywhere; no monthly fees, no annual contracts, and no hunting for Wi-Fi hotspots

Connectivity: EVDO modem with fallback to 1xRTT; utilizes Amazon Whispernet to provide U.S wireless coverage via Sprint's 3G high-speed data network (check wireless coverage). See Wireless Terms and Conditions.


What a joke. I'm sorry but this "expensive" wireless book reader is not the wave of the future.

Bring out an iTablet and you have your OS X and all it's bells and whistles, plus your PDFs, DOCs, Safari, etc....

[Shiner]

There's a bill in the senate right now that would rescind the free access provisions. The scientific press wants us to fund the research and then have to pay to see the results.

The driving force behind this is Senator John Conyers, D-Michigan.

Folks it takes money to publish those articles!!! I edit papers for ASM all the time. You think it is free to run a journal?

[michaelvoigt]

If not, this product will have a struggled priced at $489. I feel people will consider cheaper full-featured net-books over this.

[mdriftmeyer]

LOL you must not be a scientist. I have used pubmed everyday for the last 10 years. In order to have electronic access to all journals on pubmed your school would go broke. Your statement about NIH funds is only partially correct believe me.

Yes that person has no clue. The costs for the Engineering fields, Chemistry, Physics, Applied Mathematics, etc., all charge differently and for each subfield differently. Amazon wants to get this out before it loses all luster when Apple releases a more expensive Tablet but is actually a full blown OS X System.

[Thomas Davie]

I'd buy/pre order one in a heartbeat if it was available in Canada, but because it ain't, I'm out. ButI do have a Sony Prs-505 reader with a 6 inch screen and it's quite nice for books and I can download newspapers/magazine (but with a reduced pleasure experience because of the screen size). Reads encrypted lrf (of which I have none), pdf, doc, txt and epub. It works great in direct sunlight, has a long battery life (bout a couple months per charge), and pretty much does what I want.

But if I could buy the Kindle DX, I would. As long as I could subscribe to newspapers and buy books wirelessly (not just wifi, but 3g or whispernet).

If Apple is first to market in Canada with an e-ink reader, I'll buy that. And no, I don't consider reading on the touch/iphone good enough.

Tom

[disagree]

e-ink is pretty great, but I honestly don't mind reading on my iPhone.

The kindle is a pretty honest trade-off of a better reading device for a mini-computer phone that's not as pretty a reading device.

If what you want is both in one, you will be disappointed. Or you will have two things taped to each other. :)

[pixpixpix]

I see - It is a network computer that can't compute..

[mdriftmeyer]

Folks it takes money to publish those articles!!! I edit papers for ASM all the time. You think it is free to run a journal?

It costs me money to purchase journals from ieee.org acm.org, ams.org, asme.org, etc.

I do not want my tax dollars paying their salaries. Those journals for IEEE, American Computing & Machinery, Mathematical Society and American Society of Mechanical Engineers are for those chosen fields whose value to someone outside of those fields is zero.

[Goona]

I'd say Apple better get something to market damn quickly because I want something like this.

5 years from now, future generations of devices like this will be the only way people read anymore.

So you can't buy one if nots made by Apple. If Apple were to release one and it sold 500 000 like the Kindle it would get panned.

[BMWFan]

So you can't buy one if nots made by Apple. If Apple were to release one and it sold 500 000 like the Kindle it would get panned.


It's clear that Amazon, just like Apple doesn't care about market share. It's all about the high profit margins. However it's still funny reading the "it's overpriced" comments from Apple users.

[JayLenochiniMac]

LOL you must not be a scientist. I have used pubmed everyday for the last 10 years. In order to have electronic access to all journals on pubmed your school would go broke. Your statement about NIH funds is only partially correct believe me.

Oh, yes, I'm a scientist in a large university and there's not a journal I don't have access to (at least in my research area).

If NIH funds your work, it must be deposited in pubmed central (or the journal takes care of the process for you). www.pubmed.org home page says it all.

There's a bill in the senate right now that would rescind the free access provisions. The scientific press wants us to fund the research and then have to pay to see the results.

The driving force behind this is Senator John Conyers, D-Michigan.

I seriously doubt it'll pass as NIH is funded by taxpayers' money.

[apelet]

I don't understand all the hostility toward this thing that people have. It's not exactly what I'd want, but it's so close to everything that I'd want out of a dream Apple tablet. I'd be really surprised if Apple didn't come out with something a similar size with iPod touch-like functionality within the year. The buzz that Amazon is getting over this is difficult to ignore, although it's not clear to me how much they're actually making off of it, but just the fact that so many people here are so vocal about how "apple could do it better" is a sign to me that Amazon is on to something.

It's not just that this thing lets you read e-books or textbooks or newspapers. It also does blogs and wikipedia. It's not hard to imagine the Kindle 3 or 4 coming out in the near future with a color multi-touch screen and full web access. What Apple has going for it is the iTunes ecology, their UI genius, and the precedents set by the iPhone and iPod touch. They've almost certainly got something just like this already in the works, but if not, then they need to take this huge hint from Amazon.

[nemaslov]

The irony is that the Boston Globe is poised to shutdown in 60 days.

They just negotiated with the unions so it seems they are staying put for now.

[BMWFan]

I don't understand all the hostility toward this thing that people have. It's not exactly what I'd want, but it's so close to everything that I'd want out of a dream Apple tablet. I'd be really surprised if Apple didn't come out with something a similar size with iPod touch-like functionality within the year. The buzz that Amazon is getting over this is difficult to ignore, although it's not clear to me how much they're actually making off of it, but just the fact that so many people here are so vocal about how "apple could do it better" is a sign to me that Amazon is on to something.

It's not just that this thing lets you read e-books or textbooks or newspapers. It also does blogs and wikipedia. It's not hard to imagine the Kindle 3 or 4 coming out in the near future with a color multi-touch screen and full web access. What Apple has going for it is the iTunes ecology, their UI genius, and the precedents set by the iPhone and iPod touch. They've almost certainly got something just like this already in the works, but if not, then they need to take this huge hint from Amazon.

Apple is not about copying other companies. Imagine if Apple copied Amazon and being relagated to being a me-too company just like Microsoft!

[kastenbrust]

Are they serious?!?! $489 for a 9.7" screen! do you know how many newspapers i can buy for $489?!?! About 2 years worth

Thats longer than this screen would last me anyway! :rolleyes:

[Gasu E.]

. I can't figure out the market. I was excited about this announcement as a college professor but I can't for the life of me figure out the target audience. College students buy textbooks and return them at the end of the semester for 40-50% of purchase price. Will this reader allow this price on textbooks?

I don't imagine you teach economics. Let's assume the current List price of a hardcopy text is L, and the life-cycle of a text is thus: book gets sold to a student new for 100% L; then when s/he is done it is resold directly to another for 50% L; then when s/he is done the book is burned. That means each student pays net 50% L for each of two uses, while the publisher gets 100% L total for two uses, or 50% L per use. Now suppose with Kindle the publisher only charges 50% L per student. This works out exactly the same for the students as in the hardcopy case, and obtains exactly the same revenue per use for the publisher. However, the publisher has better net profits by not paying expenses for printing and shipping. Now, in reality, text books get more than 2 uses on average, which means the publisher will do even better than in my simplified model. So obviously it is in the publisher's best interest in charging 50%, or even less, of hard text prices for Kindle copies. QED.

[BMWFan]

Are they serious?!?! $489 for a 9.7" screen! do you know how many newspapers i can buy for $489?!?! About 2 years worth

Yes because Apple doesn't overprice its hardware. Where are all the people saying that it's the INTEGRATION that Apple charges the premium for. There are plenty of people happy to pay the premium to use integrated experience on overpriced hardware from Apple. There are plenty of people who want that from Amazon as well. Aren't the mac fanboys always saying specs don't matter?

[BRLawyer]

Apple is not about copying other companies. Imagine if Apple copied Amazon and being relagated to being a me-too company just like Microsoft!

Apple never copies, it just redefines a whole segment of the market with quality even when crappy "predecessors" already exist...

[W1LLk]

If the kindle could actually start fires, I'd buy one.

[kastenbrust]

Yes because Apple doesn't overprice its hardware. Where are all the people saying that it's the INTEGRATION that Apple charges the premium for. There are plenty of people happy to pay the premium to use integrated experience on overpriced hardware from Apple. There are plenty of people who want that from Amazon as well. Aren't the mac fanboys always saying specs don't matter?

Hows this integrated? Its less integrated than a newspaper, you cant just leave it on the train or chuck it in the bin when you dont want it anymore, you have to carry it around everywhere! Plus it makes you a mugging magnet with its high price. If you put it in your bag, you'll damage the screen, so it has to be carried in your hands, what a neucense.

Plus the newspaper articles you read on it will be in black and white, and they will still have advertising, despite paying for them and paying for the device :rolleyes:

[farmboy]

Useful, but certainly expensive. I thought this was going to be cheaper, considering the rumors mentioned, to the best of my knowledge, that students could use it for text books.

Then again, I've seen school text books go for $200+

Looks like Kindle 2 it is, for me at least.

I don't find it expensive at all. That's what new technology costs. It's way cheaper than text books. I wouldn't buy one yet, as I think the Apple device will be superior--color, better/faster, better UI, more capable--but it will be every penny of this big Kindle and probably more. And it will sell out in a hurry, economy or no.

While the Kindle has opened the market segment, Apple will own it. Apple will create an iTunes-like store for every participating publication to centrally hawk their wares--books, papers, magazines, applications, etc., either for rent/subscribe or purchase, with some sort of copy protection (yes, it WILL, so don't even start whining about it later).

[Shiner]

Oh, yes, I'm a scientist in a large university and there's not a journal I don't have access to (at least in my research area).

If NIH funds your work, it must be deposited in pubmed central (or the journal takes care of the process for you). www.pubmed.org home page says it all.



I seriously doubt it'll pass as NIH is funded by taxpayers' money.

I just finished my postdoc at harvard (which has the largest electronic scientific library) and I still couldn't gain access to some of the journals I needed). You are right that you must deposit it in pubmed but that does not mean everyone gains access to that journal article. If you are a scientist that has access to all journals please tell me where you work. I wanna sign up.

[TraceyS/FL]

I normally don't agree with such comments but on this occasion I agree completely. I can't figure out the market. I was excited about this announcement as a college professor but I can't for the life of me figure out the target audience. College students buy textbooks and return them at the end of the semester for 40-50% of purchase price. Will this reader allow this price on textbooks? No color for PDF's and textbooks means a no go for all of my papers for class as well as two of my textbooks. Oh well I guess people that want to pay a premium to read regular books on the go will buy this but that might be the only people.

Agreed. I would kill to have this for university. Then I won't have 40lb's sitting on my shoulder walking around campus anymore! But, of course, Canada doesn't get this fine piece of electronics.:mad:

I would have bought one in a heartbeat. Give me color version to view on my computer in my house/dorm room - B&W and a light backpack to carry around campus & to the library... or home for hte weekend.

No more choosing which books to take to class because there are too many on certain days.

Anyway, i'd buy one if i had any money! LOL!

[gcmexico]

way too big to carry around...I like my kindle 2 better

[BMWFan]

Hows this integrated? Its less integrated than a newspaper, you cant just leave it on the train or chuck it in the bin when you dont want it anymore, you have to carry it around everywhere! Plus it makes you a mugging magnet with its high price. If you put it in your bag, you'll damage the screen, so it has to be carried in your hands, what a neucense.

I am talking about the hardware + software integration. The same integration that Apple fanboys always use as an argument when pointed towards Apple's overpriced hardware.

[kastenbrust]

I am talking about the hardware + software integration. The same integration that Apple fanboys always use as an argument when pointed towards Apple's overpriced hardware.

Apples hardware isn't overpriced. Find me a computer with all the same features as an Apple computer for a lower price.

[Shiner]

I don't imagine you teach economics. Let's assume the current List price of a hardcopy text is L, and the life-cycle of a text is thus: book gets sold to a student new for 100% L; then when s/he is done it is resold directly to another for 50% L; then when s/he is done the book is burned. That means each student pays net 50% L for each of two uses, while the publisher gets 100% L total for two uses, or 50% L per use. Now suppose with Kindle the publisher only charges 50% L per student. This works out exactly the same for the students as in the hardcopy case, and obtains exactly the same revenue per use for the publisher. However, the publisher has better net profits by not paying expenses for printing and shipping. Now, in reality, text books get more than 2 uses on average, which means the publisher will do even better than in my simplified model. So obviously it is in the publisher's best interest in charging 50%, or even less, of hard text prices for Kindle copies. QED.

Maybe except my students buy used books and then resale used books. The price of the text book would have to be almost nothing on the kindle. Additionally, I can't think of one textbook in the biological sciences that would look good and be useful in black and white. Maybe you are right only for business students.

[apelet]

Apple is not about copying other companies. Imagine if Apple copied Amazon and being relagated to being a me-too company just like Microsoft!

Oh, that's right. I'd forgotten about how they invented the MP3 player with the iPod. Before the iPod, no such thing existed.

[TheSlush]

Enjoy it while it lasts, Kindle DX... Apple tablet's comin'!

[mdriftmeyer]

Yes because Apple doesn't overprice its hardware. Where are all the people saying that it's the INTEGRATION that Apple charges the premium for. There are plenty of people happy to pay the premium to use integrated experience on overpriced hardware from Apple. There are plenty of people who want that from Amazon as well. Aren't the mac fanboys always saying specs don't matter?

Apple provides an entire operating system environment to develop applications to use in that ecosystem.

[mdriftmeyer]

Maybe except my students buy used books and then resale used books. The price of the text book would have to be almost nothing on the kindle. Additionally, I can't think of one textbook in the biological sciences that would look good and be useful in black and white. Maybe you are right only for business students.

As both a Mechanical Engineer and Computer Scientist I will add that anyone who sells back their textbooks, used or new is a fool. You will end up hunting down those valuable resources later in your career and wished you had kept them. The life cycle of the Kindle DX books is extremely limited. Backup to CD-ROM/DVD/Blu-Ray/External HDD?

[BMWFan]

Apples hardware isn't overpriced. Find me a computer with all the same features as an Apple computer for a lower price.

lol just lol. are you serious.

Apple provides an entire operating system environment to develop applications to use in that ecosystem.

And the kindle runs on absolutely thin air amirite? Fact is, the Kindle has its own ecosystem and integration that Amazon can charge premium on.

Like I've said before, it's hilarious to read the "overpriced" comments from Apple users :), considering they so strongly defend the "overpriced" accusations from PC users.

[johncarync]

This thing looks like what Microsoft would come up with if they created an eBook reader...100+ keys/buttons on a device that you spend 90+% of your time reading stuff on?!! No color? Come on Amazon. Think outside the box.

I know there are reasons for all the buttons and the b/w screen but Apple would take the time and do the research to come up with a way around it. Apple's version would have a touch screen and a virtual keyboard on the screen. The lower left and right corners of the virtual pages would be curled up a little so you could swipe them with your finger to turn the page. It would be black and white by default to extend battery life but there would be a color indicator that would let you know when there was color content so you could turn the color on.

On the other hand it would cost $899. It's the Apple tax...and some people just aren't cool enough to get it.

[JayLenochiniMac]

I just finished my postdoc at harvard (which has the largest electronic scientific library) and I still couldn't gain access to some of the journals I needed).

Maybe your research area is different from mine, but I had access to 98% of all the journals online when I did my Ph.D. at UCLA. The other 2% I just walked over to the Chemistry library or the Biomed library to make photocopies of the hard copy version.

You are right that you must deposit it in pubmed but that does not mean everyone gains access to that journal article.

NIH public access policy says the public must have access to the published results of work funded by NIH, so yes, they're available as free full text articles (and there's even a bill trying to get rid of this requirement). You still have to pay to get the pdf version though.

[Shiner]

As both a Mechanical Engineer and Computer Scientist I will add that anyone who sells back their textbooks, used or new is a fool. You will end up hunting down those valuable resources later in your career and wished you had kept them. The life cycle of the Kindle DX books is extremely limited. Backup to CD-ROM/DVD/Blu-Ray/External HDD?

Well in the life sciences our textbooks change every 5 years or so but for other fields holding on to textbooks can prove to be worthwhile.

[pmjoe]

If the battery life is as stated (in the days) and I could annotate the PDFs with my notes (roughly, associate text with different paragraphs maybe) and export those notes easily, this is starting to sound really good.

Adding an SD slot would be useful.

Hmmm ... tempting.

[Shiner]

Maybe your research area is different from mine, but I had access to 98% of all the journals online when I did my Ph.D. at UCLA. The other 2% I just walked over to the Chemistry library or the Biomed library to make photocopies of the hard copy version.



NIH public access policy says the public must have access to the published results of work funded by NIH, so yes, they're available as free full text articles (and there's even a bill trying to get rid of this requirement). You still have to pay to get the pdf version though.

Well maybe in your field you can wait the 6 months to one year it takes for some journals to allow access to content but that is an eternity in my field.

[BRLawyer]

I don't find it expensive at all. That's what new technology costs.

This is a contradiction in itself. The fact that the technology costs a lot because it's new doesn't mean we can't still say it's expensive...the Kindle IS indeed expensive for the ridiculously limited scope it has as a device.

[PowerFullMac]

This has nothing to do with Apple at all, if I wanted to know about the Kindle I'd use KindleRumors... :rolleyes:

[BRLawyer]

And the kindle runs on absolutely thin air amirite? Fact is, the Kindle has its own ecosystem and integration that Amazon can charge premium on.

Like I've said before, it's hilarious to read the "overpriced" comments from Apple users :), considering they so strongly defend the "overpriced" accusations from PC users.

The comparison is simply ridiculous. The closed "ecosystem" of the Kindle PLUS its paltry set of possible uses makes it a proposition that is NOT successful at all in the long run...no wonder they are only selling it in the US...it's a testbed before Amazon finally decides that it's a commercial lemon.

[jbernie]

Too expensive for a single purpose device.

College kids won't spend their money on this. Text books are already so damn expensive and why would publishers lower their prices when you have no choice to buy the book?

Amazon should be giving these away. Give them the razor and make your money on the blades.

Actually that depends on the cost of the e text books vs the physical books, over the course of your 4 year degree, even a $20-30 discount over the physical book would more than pay off the device at retail price.

In the school market, I would think that if a large school commits 100% to the device then they should be able to get discounts on the units, or they could include it in the cost of the 1st year tuition at a corporate discount price so the student doesn't in fact pay more out of pocket up front. Let alone the fact that some are moaning about the price but kids are easily paying $30k for a 4 yr degree and goodness knows how much for the text books that magically replaced every year with a "new" edition that really hasnt changed at all.

The device itself, unlike your text books can be used for many purposes and assuming it is treated right you can keep it & use it for many years.

Let us not forget the environmental impact of such a device, how many thousands of books need not be published on paper?, reducing the need to cut down how many trees? reducing the need for how many trucks to not deliver said trees or books? further reducing the need for massive storage areas that need to be heated/cooled/lighted etc to store these phsyical books?

At least in education there is a lot that can be gained from such a device. It compliments any computer you have and about the only extra it really needs (if it doesnt have it) might be a notepad function.

IIRC the Kindle has a basic web browser so in theory you can access some email tools etc that way.

Now all we need is a way to trade e-books so the discount e-book market takes off :)

[Scott6666]

It's really funny reading all these "too expensive" comments from Apple users! What was the argument when MS claimed Macs were too expensive? "it doesn't do what you want".

+1

The whiners do sound like the new MS commercials: "nice design but too expensive...". And these are the people that say get the MBA with the SSD, can't use a hard drive anymore. Plus, it's my backup, travel computer.

[BMWFan]

The comparison is simply ridiculous. The closed "ecosystem" of the Kindle PLUS its paltry set of possible uses makes it a proposition that is NOT successful at all in the long run...no wonder they are only selling it in the US...it's a testbed before Amazon finally decides that it's a commercial lemon.

I've asked this before, what makes you think Amazon is going after volume of sales? I think that just like Apple and their Mac computers, they are going after high profit margins. It's not a commercial lemon if it's raking in money.

[JayLenochiniMac]

Well maybe in your field you can wait the 6 months to one year it takes for some journals to allow access to content but that is an eternity in my field.

Yes, true, it may take up to 1 year for it to be made available, but I guess I never notice it because I've been able to find all the articles I needed in pdfs (paid by the university of course) since becoming a postdoc. Your field may be different so it's different for you.

[W1LLk]

Apple has to get on the ball.

The question is... will Apple be on the $500 ball?

Call me crazy, but I still just prefer an old fashioned book made of paper.... :p

You're crazy. :D

Not having these in places where consumers can touch and feel them will hurt. Most want to see tech in action before they buy it.

I have a difficult time reading your posts, as all I can see is the avatar. :p

[BRLawyer]

I've asked this before, what makes you think Amazon is going after volume of sales? I think that just like Apple and their Mac computers, they are going after high profit margins. It's not a commercial lemon if it's raking in money.

I didn't say that, I said Amazon is testing the waters before spreading lemon juice to the rest of its financial statements...failure factors for the Kindle, and MAJOR differences to any BS comparison you guys have been making with Macs and iPods:

- EXTREMELY limited use;
- monochromatic screen and no possible choice of other paper tones;
- ABSOLUTELY overpriced for its limited scope;
- BULKY.

The Kindle IS DEAD.

[Shiner]

Actually that depends on the cost of the e text books vs the physical books, over the course of your 4 year degree, even a $20-30 discount over the physical book would more than pay off the device at retail price.

In the school market, I would think that if a large school commits 100% to the device then they should be able to get discounts on the units, or they could include it in the cost of the 1st year tuition at a corporate discount price so the student doesn't in fact pay more out of pocket up front. Let alone the fact that some are moaning about the price but kids are easily paying $30k for a 4 yr degree and goodness knows how much for the text books that magically replaced every year with a "new" edition that really hasnt changed at all.

The device itself, unlike your text books can be used for many purposes and assuming it is treated right you can keep it & use it for many years.

Let us not forget the environmental impact of such a device, how many thousands of books need not be published on paper?, reducing the need to cut down how many trees? reducing the need for how many trucks to not deliver said trees or books? further reducing the need for massive storage areas that need to be heated/cooled/lighted etc to store these phsyical books?

At least in education there is a lot that can be gained from such a device. It compliments any computer you have and about the only extra it really needs (if it doesnt have it) might be a notepad function.

IIRC the Kindle has a basic web browser so in theory you can access some email tools etc that way.

Now all we need is a way to trade e-books so the discount e-book market takes off :)

I agree with everything you say about a device that would function like this. Unfortunately the kindle can not handle this workload. The no color is a deal breaker right off the bat. The price per textbook is still to high, no matter how you break it down. Textbooks on college campuses are out of control currently. But you have to understand that in the current system most students are simply "renting" the textbooks. I just asked one of my students how much books are for the semester. She payed $420 for the semester and she will sell them for $250-300. She is out over the long term $200-250. Those same books (some are not available) using the kindle would cost her $500 and she owns them but she will never use them again. What do you think she is going to do. I would love to get rid of paper books and newspapers but this device can not do that yet. A device further down the road maybe will have all the functions you mentioned.

[W1LLk]

This has nothing to do with Apple at all, if I wanted to know about the Kindle I'd use KindleRumors... :rolleyes:

I've been kind of thinking that myself. But I can see the relationship to Apple's possible netbook/tablet release, however that isn't mentioned in the article.

[Andrew K.]

Useful, but certainly expensive. I thought this was going to be cheaper, considering the rumors mentioned, to the best of my knowledge, that students could use it for text books.

Then again, I've seen school text books go for $200+

Looks like Kindle 2 it is, for me at least.


How so ? Everything it costs to manufacture it is of course higher, just because NYT times made deals to have long term subscriptions doesn't mean the price will be lower it's not like the Kindle DX is dependent on Newspapers to function. It'd certainly piss me off if it were cheaper than the K2 but I really didn't see the logic in them making it cheaper.

I have a kindle 2 and I love it! I will buy a DX when color is introduced for text books and such, but the K2 is the perfect size for reading.

[TraceyS/FL]

As both a Mechanical Engineer and Computer Scientist I will add that anyone who sells back their textbooks, used or new is a fool. You will end up hunting down those valuable resources later in your career and wished you had kept them. The life cycle of the Kindle DX books is extremely limited. Backup to CD-ROM/DVD/Blu-Ray/External HDD?

I agree - i have a variety that i still use. I dug out some art history papers for my daughter just 2 weeks ago. She isn't happy with the fact i got rid of a few books either - me telling her about it wasn't good enough! LOL!!

[DELLsFan]

The irony is that the Boston Globe is poised to shutdown in 60 days.

Sweet irony. With luck, the NYT and WP aren't very far behind. I disliked their obvious "news" bias years ago. I dislike them now. Now that the government is looking for ways to bail these hacks out with more of my tax dollars, I loathe them even more.

IMO, newspaper subscriptions for the Kindle should be remarkably cheap - considering the source.

:apple:

[W1LLk]

I agree with everything you say about a device that would function like this. Unfortunately the kindle can not handle this workload. The no color is a deal breaker right off the bat. The price per textbook is still to high, no matter how you break it down. Textbooks on college campuses are out of control currently. But you have to understand that in the current system most students are simply "renting" the textbooks. I just asked one of my students how much books are for the semester. She payed $420 for the semester and she will sell them for $250-300. She is out over the long term $200-250. Those same books (some are not available) using the kindle would cost her $500 and she owns them but she will never use them again. What do you think she is going to do. I would love to get rid of paper books and newspapers but this device can not do that yet. A device further down the road maybe will have all the functions you mentioned.


I think the point here is that ideally the prices of those text books should be cheaper given there are no copies to be printed, no distribution costs, no overhead on inventory management, not to mention the reduction in value caused by the typical yearly version release on some of these texts. There is absolutely no reason a $200 printed book should cost more than half that other than royalty rights and greed.

Whats even more ridiculous are professors who charge $80-$150 for xeroxed-3-hole-punched-shrink-wrapped-self-authored texts. :rolleyes:

[Chupa Chupa]

This has nothing to do with Apple at all, if I wanted to know about the Kindle I'd use KindleRumors... :rolleyes:

Clearly you did want to know about the new Kindle b/c you bothered to hit the comment button to read the full story and all the comments. Then you went a step further an bother to comment. I think the likely behavior of someone uninterested in an article is to scroll past it.

[Speedy2]

Ermm no, the iPod became successful when released for Windows.

Myth.

The first Windows enabled model was 2G.
If you look at the sales figures, it only became a real hit in the 2004 holiday season, i.e., after the release of the 4G.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod#Sales

[W1LLk]

Clearly you did want to know about the new Kindle b/c you bothered to hit the comment button to read the full story and all the comments. Then you went a step further an bother to comment. I think the likely behavior of someone uninterested in an article is to scroll past it.

I don't think his point was based on interest, but simply pure pertinence.

[Small White Car]

Too pricey.

Yeah, sure. Which is why no one owns an HDTV these days. Didn't you hear? They used to cost $3,000. Who would EVER pay for one of those!? :eek: Surely they vanished after such a pricey introduction!

[ebrunn]

I think the point here is that ideally the prices of those text books should be cheaper given there are no copies to be printed, no distribution costs, no overhead on inventory management, not to mention the reduction in value caused by the typical yearly version release on some of these texts. There is absolutely no reason a $200 printed book should cost more than half that other than royalty rights and greed.

Whats even more ridiculous are professors who charge $80-$150 for xeroxed-3-hole-punched-shrink-wrapped-self-authored texts. :rolleyes:

Yeah, It's a racket. I blame the school book stores as well giving crappy returns back for your books.

[HiRez]

As for all of the "that's too pricey comments", puuhhhleeease. Most of us on here have purchased Macs and iPods and iPhones as early adopters at quite a premium. Does this thing do as much as the iPhone or Macs? No. But people will pay for what they like and there will be plenty of people who will like this.Hmm, well I guess it depends on how you define "plenty". I'm willing to venture that the number of people who want a phone/smartphone/computer/iPod is vastly larger than the number of people who need a dedicated e-book reader, especially in the U.S. (which I think is the only place Sprint EVDO works?). Americans no longer read in large numbers. Last figure I saw, which was about 5 years ago, said that only 11% of Americans read newspapers anymore, and I'm not sure what the figure is for books, but it might be even smaller. Well, we'll see. Amazon is trying for the old Apple model of premium pricing for a wonderful user experience, but I don't know if it will work in this space. I wish Amazon luck in selling these, but I won't be buying any until they are under $250 at least, at which point I will probably buy at least 3 of them (one for me + gifts).

[groundlessnfree]

I think people here would be surprised at the number of reading aficionados out there. Will this have the worldwide success of the iPhone, not likely, but it will find its niche and do well.

As far as the Kindle is concerned, it's a step in the right direction e-ink, but otherwise it fails. It came too late in the game for newspapers, blogs and magazines. Carrying a Kindle is not convenient because it doesn't fit in my pocket and if I'm not on the move, I'll use a computer to get this information.

I am a reading aficionado, if such a term could be applied. I read about 1-2 books a week when I can because reading a good book is truly entertaining.

I have tried to read books on the iPhone because I do use my iPhone for reading news/blogs/etc., but it's not the same. It's not the size though. Books just shouldn't have buttons. There is a phenomenal tactile experience to holding a book and turning the pages.

[Thunderbird]

What happens if you drop the thing?
It only comes with a one year warranty. If something goes awry with it, will you lose all the data?

So many questions....

[AidenShaw]

The comparison is simply ridiculous. The closed "ecosystem" of the Kindle Mac PLUS its paltry set of possible uses applications makes it a proposition that is NOT successful at all in the long run...

Fixed your typos ;)

[mdriftmeyer]

I think the point here is that ideally the prices of those text books should be cheaper given there are no copies to be printed, no distribution costs, no overhead on inventory management, not to mention the reduction in value caused by the typical yearly version release on some of these texts. There is absolutely no reason a $200 printed book should cost more than half that other than royalty rights and greed.

Whats even more ridiculous are professors who charge $80-$150 for xeroxed-3-hole-punched-shrink-wrapped-self-authored texts. :rolleyes:

There is absolutely no reason a release verion 12 of a Physics for Engineering Textbook which is roughly 100 pages more than version 6 costs $150 while version 6 cost $54 when it was new.

Thanks to technical publishers consolidating we've gotten less choice, prices have skyrocketed and professors are rehashing works that didn't need to be rehashed, but offered only as addendums and advanced problem sets/solutions offerings.

They know that only the serious engineering student or physicist would want them and they wouldn't sell much so they bury the product with a fraction of those new problem sets, add some more color and jack up the pricing.

Ironically, Dover Publications has the majority of the best tombs in Science and they are a fraction of the cost of any text book.

Professors should stop recommending version 12 and skip it all together in favor of Dover Publications until the publisher is willing to re-release version 6 and the add-on options.

I'm staring at Physics for Scientists and Engineers, by Serway and Jewitt, 6th edition. I paid $35 on Amazon for it. The print paper is weaker than version 5. It however offers a whizbang option to get a physics problem solver, online!

Whoopi! Sit down and use a pencil, your grid paper and your brain to learn Physics. When you think a problem solver will be useful it's called Numerical Analysis and you're dealing with 20 x 20 matrices to crunch out FEA/FEM problems for Fluid Flow, Heat Transfer and Fatigue. You're not dealing with it in your lower level physics courseware.

There is no way in hell that Kindle will match the lifespan of this big book.

Then again people continue to drop their iPhones in the crapper because they are that self-absorbed and lack the dexterity to hold the phone while relieving themselves. Apple now offering a replacement for $199 and calling it a common occurrence speaks volumes about Humanity, in general.

[mdriftmeyer]

As far as the Kindle is concerned, it's a step in the right direction e-ink, but otherwise it fails. It came too late in the game for newspapers, blogs and magazines. Carrying a Kindle is not convenient because it doesn't fit in my pocket and if I'm not on the move, I'll use a computer to get this information.

I am a reading aficionado, if such a term could be applied. I read about 1-2 books a week when I can because reading a good book is truly entertaining.

I have tried to read books on the iPhone because I do use my iPhone for reading news/blogs/etc., but it's not the same. It's not the size though. Books just shouldn't have buttons. There is a phenomenal tactile experience to holding a book and turning the pages.

Agreed.

Somehow I think Bezo thinks Star Trek Next Generation has arrived and ignores Captain Picards love affair with reading Moby Dick in it's original print format.

[HiRez]

Too pricey.

Yeah, sure. Which is why no one owns an HDTV these days. Didn't you hear? They used to cost $3,000. Who would EVER pay for one of those!? :eek: Surely they vanished after such a pricey introduction!The problem with that argument is that several years after the initial "high-priced" Kindle model, when version 2.0 came out (same size screen, essentially just remodeled), the price actually went UP (considering the new one doesn't come with a cover) instead of down. It appears the economies of scale and manufacturing efficiency aren't working here, like they do for every other product.

Sure, some people still pay $3,000 for a television, but these are vastly superior to the ones they were selling for $3,000 15 years ago: they are digital, high-definition, brighter, have a larger viewing angle, more power efficient, weigh 1/2 to 1/8 as much, and take up 1/10th the space in your home (in fact, can be mounted on the wall). The vast majority of televisions people are buying still have most of these advantages but are much closer to $1,000 today. Additionally $3,000 15 years ago was more money than $3,000 is today because of inflation.

[canucksfan88]

HAHAHAHA! All you people who are saying its too pricey, its just sad.
The moment a high costing electronic isnt made by apple, it becomes to expensive.

Seriously, if this was an Apple product, the cost would not be the issue.

Apple fans make me sick sometimes..

[W1LLk]

What happens if you drop the thing?
It only comes with a one year warranty. If something goes awry with it, will you lose all the data?

So many questions....
Ever seen Will it Blend? featuring Kindle? Thats what happens if you drop it.

Fixed your typos ;)
Wow

Agreed.

Somehow I think Bezo thinks Star Trek Next Generation has arrived and ignores Captain Picards love affair with reading Moby Dick in it's original print format.
You know as well as I do the computer on Enterprise narrates the book for Capt. Picard and he justs looks at the pictures.

[Small White Car]

The problem with that argument is that several years after the initial "high-priced" Kindle model, when version 2.0 came out (same size screen, essentially just remodeled), the price actually went UP

Uh...are we talking about the same product? The first Kindle came out 18 months ago. By my count, that's not "several years."

You must be thinking of something else, I guess?

The Kindle is still a pretty new product compared to things like HDTV, which did take sevearl years to get cheaper. (Not 18 months.)

[mdriftmeyer]

What happens if you drop the thing?
It only comes with a one year warranty. If something goes awry with it, will you lose all the data?

So many questions....

People don't like it when one asks pragmatic and common reality scenario questions.

Ever seen Will it Blend? featuring Kindle? Thats what happens if you drop it.


Wow


You know as well as I do the computer on Enterprise narrates the book for Capt. Picard and he justs looks at the pictures.

He's got the holodeck for those "pretty" pictures to turn his crank.

[Sander]

FWIW, I have an iRex Iliad (see http://www.irextechnologies.com/) which I paid 649 euros for. I love the thing. The e-ink screens simply can't be compared with laptop LCDs. You can read them outside, in direct sunlight. For me, the major appeal is that I can "print" any document to the device. I actually rarely read ebooks on them; I use it for reference documents (PDFs); I can scribble annotations onto them. I couldn't care less about color; the majority of my documents are black-and-white anyway.

You should really try to see one "in the flesh". The display technology really is amazing, and I hope we'll get to see more like this in other devices.

[inkswamp]

Here's where the news industry has one last lifeline before drowning in technology. As someone who has worked in said industry for the last 14 years, I've watched this scenario play out time and time again. Something new comes along, the news industry either downplays its importance or ignores it completely only to have it boomerang on them and cut them off at the knees.

I'm hoping the big media companies and Amazon will take a page from the cell phone/telecom arrangement and subsidize the cost of the hardware by tying it in with a subscription to news content.

Of course, history teaches us they will not do this until it's too late (watch for it around 2015) so goodbye news industry. It was nice knowing ya.

[farmboy]

This is a contradiction in itself. The fact that the technology costs a lot because it's new doesn't mean we can't still say it's expensive...the Kindle IS indeed expensive for the ridiculously limited scope it has as a device.

No, it's not a contradiction. Unit volume and time decrease costs; "new" costs more. More is greater than less, at least on my planet. What's a contradiction? I still don't think, at the introductory price, that it's expensive. And I still don't want one. Your mileage may vary.

[michael.lauden]

are you guys seriously arguing about the fundamentals of business.

[inkswamp]

Fixed your typos ;)

But it's a correct observation. The Kindle faces the same closed system problem that the early Mac platform did.

And let's all be honest. The Mac died in 2002. It was replaced by an entirely different, Unix-based platform that assumed the Mactinosh name and opened up the previously closed ecosystem in ways the original Mac platform had never dreamed of. And *that's* when the Mac platform really started to thrive.

[HiRez]

Here's where the news industry has one last lifeline before drowning in technology. As someone who has worked in said industry for the last 14 years, I've watched this scenario play out time and time again. Something new comes along, the news industry either downplays its importance or ignores it completely only to have it boomerang on them and cut them off at the knees.

I'm hoping the big media companies and Amazon will take a page from the cell phone/telecom arrangement and subsidize the cost of the hardware by tying it in with a subscription to news content.

Of course, history teaches us they will not do this until it's too late (watch for it around 2015) so goodbye news industry. It was nice knowing ya.Actually, I think they did announce today that there will be subsidized models for three newspaper subscriptions: NY Times, Boston Globe, and Washington Post, I think. I don't believe they mentioned what the price or the subscription lock-in period would be though.

Another thing that might work for me is if they do what they used to do with DVD players: sell the device at a not-rock-bottom price, but bundle coupons for free discs. So for example, if they sold the Kindle at $350 but gave me 10 or 15 free downloads of my choice, that might get me to bite. Potentially it's some lost revenue for Amazon, but it only costs them what they pay for each e-book (at cost), which is assuredly much less that consumers pay, and if they entice more people to buy into the Kindle, that can only mean more future software sales (and probably more future hardware sales too as some people will want to upgrade).

EDIT: Oops, it looks like the subsidized subscription thing is not really going to work for most people. According to AllThingsD:

The yet-to-be-described subsidy the papers plan to offer to Kindle DX buyers who agree to long-term subscriptions will only be available to a fraction of subscribers–those who can’t get home delivery of the print edition.

Blah. So much for that.

[jimb1969]

Hasn't anyone noticed that the Kindle DX's resolution is only 150ppi as opposed to 167ppi for the Kindle 2? It seems to me that would result in a small noticeable difference in clarity, surely they have screens capable of higher ppi...

[TechCombo]

To be honest, I think this new Kindle device has so many better features than the previous one, most notably a screen that it is over 3" bigger so all the journalists will now be able to read the latest news articles more easily. Again, this is too pricey for the public as we are in the recession but for the big companies, it could be the next big thing!

[surferfromuk]

So you can't buy one if nots made by Apple. If Apple were to release one and it sold 500 000 like the Kindle it would get panned.

That's right, basically I don't want any electronics made by other companies if I can avoid it. Keeps my life incredibly simple but substantially more flexible and effective than other people I know, with their pointless ludicrous array of crap tech with differing operating standards, philosophies and systems.

When you have ALL Apple kit across the board the advantages somehow multiply by a factor of 100. I know from the bad old days that having multiple windows devices did precisely the opposite to that point, and worse that I became some kind of home IT manager. This is also one of the reasons I recommend Apple to my friends and family cos I know they won't need to call 'family tech support guy' not only from my point of view, but for their own feeling of efficiency and well-being.

I said I want something like this made by Apple so it'll be better and more useful in the long term and, as outlined, a nice Apple device that cleanly and simply fits in with the rest of the my techno-sphere!

A 9" Ipod Touch that allows me to flip-flop between OSX and the ipod OS, with a 200 ppi display and 8 hours battery life for $600 will be perfect, thanks.

[Spades]

After some more consideration, I don't think this would be good for professionals after all. What happens when you want two books open side by side?

[TheNorthWaves]

that's the same price as a netbook. I wonder which one I'd buy...

a book reader

or a whole computer that I can read books on

...hm thinking about it.

[JimMann]

Would love one, but that's ridiculous. Why aren't they going the cell phone route by subsidizing the unit and then charging a monthly fee? Seems to have worked for EVERY CELL PHONE CARRIER OUT THERE.

What they really need to do is to offer a version of the Kindle that does not also tie into a broadband network. There is clearly something added to that price to pay for this. That may be worth it for those who want to be able to buy new books anywhere and anytime. Me, I'd be happy with being able to do so from home and wifi hotspots.

Jim

[JGowan]

Personally, I think the price is fine for arguably the best eReader available. It's a brand new market and there's a cost for first wave adoption. However, the only thing I think that Amazon is going cheap on is the 4GB (3.3GB user) space. I recently bought a Cruzer 8GB thumb drive for $20. For $489, we should be getting a minimum of 8GB and I would daresay 16GB wouldn't be asking too much. Many people are going to want to put music on this thing among other stuff. And to illustrate my goofy side, I personally have 7GB of Mad Magazine PDFs that I'd like to have on the device. 3.3GB is just too small.

The Dictionary, the blog reading, the Wikipedia --> these are all very compelling. I love the price of most books. This thing will pay for itself in the savings people find in downloading their reading as opposed to a hard copy. I like the idea also, of having the device "shelve" all my reading as opposed to having books taking up so much room.

I would like the option of backlit though for night time reading. The iPhone is great for this albeit too small for serious reading. Color of course would be great and I'm sure it's coming down the road.

---

With Kindle 2 having just launched, I'm surprised that Amazon would release the DX this quickly. Perhaps this is more indication that Apple indeed is soon to release a tablet of its own and Amazon just wants to get theirs to mark all the quicker. Apple, of course, will do it better and get far more attention than Amazon.

Fun times.

[Bonte]

HAHAHAHA! All you people who are saying its too pricey, its just sad.
The moment a high costing electronic isnt made by apple, it becomes to expensive.

Seriously, if this was an Apple product, the cost would not be the issue.

Apple fans make me sick sometimes..

The iPod Touch is more high tech, had more R&D and is certainly not cheaper to make in the same volumes as the Kindle. A 9.7 inch ipod would probably also cost $499 but that would be more bang for the buck and way cooler. :)

[DotComCTO]

Dang it!!!!!!!!!!! :mad::mad:

I just bought one less than a month ago. I would gladly have spent another $100 for the bigger screen..

If it's less than a month, Amazon has a 30-day return policy on the Kindle 2. Just return it and place a pre-order for the K DX.

:cool:

--DotComCTO

[Andrew K.]

are you guys seriously arguing about the fundamentals of business.

Was that a question?

[TraceyS/FL]

Personally, I think the price is fine for arguably the best eReader available. It's a brand new market and there's a cost for first wave adoption. However, the only thing I think that Amazon is going cheap on is the 4GB (3.3GB user) space. I recently bought a Cruzer 8GB thumb drive for $20. For $489, we should be getting a minimum of 8GB and I would daresay 16GB wouldn't be asking too much. Many people are going to want to put music on this thing among other stuff. And to illustrate my goofy side, I personally have 7GB of Mad Magazine PDFs that I'd like to have on the device. 3.3GB is just too small.

It does Audible books too - which shrinks the size even more. Does the Kindle 2 do audible? i don't see it on the chart. While not a huge thing - i could see carrying around a book or 2 for the kids to listen too.

And i agree on getting rid of the cell service on it - of course, then that will make the "rest of the world" stand up and demand that model outside the US.

But for the price they should have thrown more memory in there.

Also hoping a PP is right - that Apple is on the brink of doing something :D

[HiRez]

So since people are saying "if Apple came out with one...", I have a few questions about that. Would apple just start up its own all-digital Amazon and sell these books through the iTunes store? Would people be able to buy from Amazon, or is the Kindle format proprietary and closed? I think it's DRMed so I'm assuming yes. And if Apple did get into the business of encoding their own books in their own format, would they be able to get the same kind of pricing that Amazon does? The record companies are already playing games with Apple's digital audio track pricing because they fear/dislike Apple control of the market (for example, even though Apple is selling more digital music than Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart gets a better price). Would Apple be able to compete?

[ilfn143]

that's the same price as a netbook. I wonder which one I'd buy...

a book reader

or a whole computer that I can read books on

...hm thinking about it.

a book reader battery last a week

a whole computer that i can read books on last 3 hrs

...hm thinking about it.

[tobytoby]

I love the idea of this - it would be superb to carry lots of articles and text books with me all the time. I'm an academic and am forever ferrying books and printouts of articles between home and office. However, as I'm in the UK it is not an option. I really wish Amazon would offer the Kindle here. I keep reading suggestions that Kindle will be arriving on these shores "soon", but the first time I read that must have been at least a year ago!

[mattcube64]

So, I know the Kindle is the big boy on the block, but what about the competition?

My GF reads a new book about once a week, and I think she'd love an eReader. I've been looking at getting her one. But why shouldn't I get the Sony eReader? Seems to have nicer specs, nicer construction, a backlight, and it's cheaper. What am I missing?

[HiRez]

My GF reads a new book about once a week, and I think she'd love an eReader. I've been looking at getting her one. But why shouldn't I get the Sony eReader? Seems to have nicer specs, nicer construction, a backlight, and it's cheaper. What am I missing?Considerably less content than the Amazon store, I think. I don't believe it's compatible with the Kindle format (or vice-versa). Also, I think Amazon's ebook prices might be a little bit cheaper, but I'm not positive about that.

EDIT: Confirmed, Amazon's prices seem to be cheaper than Sony's. For example, Neal Stephenson's Quicksilver is $7.99 on the Sony store, $6.39 on Amazon (about 20% cheaper). That seems to be typical of most titles I've looked at.

EDIT 2: Actually it gets even worse. George R. R. Martin's Dreamsongs: Vol. I is $18.90 on Sony, $12.57 on Amazon, over a 30% price difference. Ouch. For someone who reads 5 books a year, that might not be important, but for someone like your gf reading a book a week, that could add up.

[cjm3113]

Leave it to MacRumors to complain about the price of a product. :D

[BRLawyer]

Fixed your typos ;)

Of course, Aiden, of course...the analogy is PERFECT...for a Windows fan. :rolleyes:

[kastenbrust]

lol just lol. are you serious.

And the kindle runs on absolutely thin air amirite? Fact is, the Kindle has its own ecosystem and integration that Amazon can charge premium on.

Like I've said before, it's hilarious to read the "overpriced" comments from Apple users :), considering they so strongly defend the "overpriced" accusations from PC users.

Prove me wrong, the reality is, im not, and you cant, believe me i've extensively checked. You will NOT find a computer with the exact same specifications as an Apple computer for a lower price. Please, dont make yourself look even more stupid and argue it.

[Westside guy]

All the "too pricey" and "single purpose" comments sound an awful lot like the complaints about the original iPods.

For one of these items to succeed, it has to provide a compelling benefit - like the iPod. People don't really benefit from carrying their whole reading library around, so the iPod comparison simply doesn't work.

A better comparison for the Kindle would be the Segway.

[BRLawyer]

No, it's not a contradiction. Unit volume and time decrease costs; "new" costs more. More is greater than less, at least on my planet. What's a contradiction? I still don't think, at the introductory price, that it's expensive. And I still don't want one. Your mileage may vary.

Wonderful remarks...and that's why the Kindle as it is NOW fails. Anything else you present in terms of futurology simply constitutes speculation and obvious predictions (economies of scale/wider adoption = lower prices).

Once more: 500 dollars for an ebook reader is RIDICULOUSLY expensive. Even the original iPod produced only for the Mac had many more uses than that.

So the net result will be the following: the Kindle will be seen as a "pioneering" product that failed...others like Apple will come and steal its thunder with MUCH better and more versatile solutions, which will at least justify their price tag with more enticing features.

[mdriftmeyer]

Considerably less content than the Amazon store, I think. I don't believe it's compatible with the Kindle format (or vice-versa). Also, I think Amazon's ebook prices might be a little bit cheaper, but I'm not positive about that.

EDIT: Confirmed, Amazon's prices seem to be cheaper than Sony's. For example, Neal Stephenson's Quicksilver is $7.99 on the Sony store, $6.39 on Amazon (about 20% cheaper). That seems to be typical of most titles I've looked at.

EDIT 2: Actually it gets even worse. George R. R. Martin's Dreamsongs: Vol. I is $18.90 on Sony, $12.57 on Amazon, over a 30% price difference. Ouch. For someone who reads 5 books a year, that might not be important, but for someone like your gf reading a book a week, that could add up.

Hardcover from a reseller:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0553805452/ref=dp_olp_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1241640232&sr=8-1

Brand new: $5.01.

What a concept! Amazon wants to make higher profit margins and thus was born the Kindle.

They know if they are nothing but a storehouse for resellers they won't make much profit. I don't fault them on that logic. I will never pass up a hardcover book for a 3 fold price increase on a short-lifespan digital product.

[NAG]

I'm not really sure how this is supposed to replace text books or scientific papers. There is no easy way to "highlight" or write notes. This ignores the lack of color as well. I mean I'd love for a replacement for reading scientific papers but at the moment my iphone and laptop would do a better job due to iphone always being on me and the laptop having a much easier to use keyboard.

[Spades]

a whole computer that i can read books on last 3 hrs

Your computer only lasts 3 hours?

Time to upgrade (http://www.amazon.com/10-Inch-Netbook-Processor-Storage-Bluetooth/dp/B001QTXL82).

There's a point at which battery life no longer matters. I've never cared about how long the battery on my iPods last. All I know is that they never drain before I recharge them. Now I get the same thing from this computer. It probably won't last 9.5 hours, but whether it lasts 9.5 or 7 (as the battery meter predicts), it will never die before I recharge it.

[BRLawyer]

I'm not really sure how this is supposed to replace text books or scientific papers. There is no easy way to "highlight" or write notes. This ignores the lack of color as well. I mean I'd love for a replacement for reading scientific papers but at the moment my iphone and laptop would do a better job due to iphone always being on me and the laptop having a much easier to use keyboard.

Just use a Mac and the Skim software...there you go.

[HiRez]

Hardcover from a reseller:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0553805452/ref=dp_olp_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1241640232&sr=8-1

Brand new: $5.01.

1. + 3.99 shipping (standard rate to California) brings it to $9.00, at least $1.00 more than a download from either store.

2. You can read the e-book instantly.

3. Beside the point as the poster was asking for differences between the Sony and Amazon e-readers.

[Andrew K.]

that's the same price as a netbook. I wonder which one I'd buy...

a book reader

or a whole computer that I can read books on

...hm thinking about it.

I'm so tired of this argument, yes we get it it's as much as a netbook, the netbook has more features because it's a computer.

"It has a full color screen too!" another one I've heard over and over, if you have never experienced reading an e-ink screen for READING then you can't say anything, a netbook is for internet writing and writing documents, the Kindle is for READING.

Is this one overpriced? YES, I guess that's what makes the netbook/kindle thing somewhat justified, but it's like saying I want buy a Chef's knife, expecting it to be used as scissors ( and yes the scissors shouldn't cost so much )

They have different markets for different target demographics. But again I do agree they are overpriced, at first glance but some things do make it justifiable for around $300 for K2 and $400 for DX

Kindle 2:
Free internet
Free downloads
Hardly has to charge
Small
Easy on the eyes ( as much as I am on the internet it's a nice change not straining my eyes)
Storage of many books
Reading and switching to any book
Read faster (I have doubled my reading speed from reading regular books)

$299 would make it more appealing to others, but again the e-ink screen doesn't get through to them.

[HiRez]

Read faster (I have doubled my reading speed from reading regular books)
Huh??? Wow, I've read a lot of glowing praise about the Kindle, but you're the first person I've seen to claim the Kindle somehow doubles your reading speed. Can you elaborate on that?

[NAG]

Just use a Mac and the Skim software...there you go.

Yes, but this changes the utility of the Kindle how? I already have ways to read and annotate on my mac, I'm talking about how Amazon is missing the boat if they think that letting people read pdf's and putting a bigger screen on the device will suddenly make it usable by scientists.

[synth3tik]

reading a real book is so much better then trying to read it on a monochrome screen.

[stridemat]

Why would you buy a separate device just to read books??? It would be different if that said device fulfilled other features such as a phone too. I cannot see how a single device would ever catch on.

[synth3tik]

Why would you buy a separate device just to read books??? It would be different if that said device fulfilled other features such as a phone too. I cannot see how a single device would ever catch on.


That would be one HUGE phone!:eek:

[rteichman]

As far as the Kindle is concerned, it's a step in the right direction e-ink, but otherwise it fails. It came too late in the game for newspapers, blogs and magazines. Carrying a Kindle is not convenient because it doesn't fit in my pocket and if I'm not on the move, I'll use a computer to get this information.

I am a reading aficionado, if such a term could be applied. I read about 1-2 books a week when I can because reading a good book is truly entertaining.

I have tried to read books on the iPhone because I do use my iPhone for reading news/blogs/etc., but it's not the same. It's not the size though. Books just shouldn't have buttons. There is a phenomenal tactile experience to holding a book and turning the pages.

Since when does the New York Times fit in your pocket? :rolleyes:

I think the point being missed by the "use my computer" crowd is that spending several hours reading "e-ink" is much more pleasant than reading off a computer screen.

I also beg to differ about the iPhone for reading blogs/news/etc. You don't spend hours reading a novel on the iPhone. I doubt anyone who does do that would have an eye ache. Not to mention that its just not fun having to scroll around so much.

I agree on the tactile feel of books, but then again people used to complain about the loss of fidelity when listening to MP3.

Clearly the Kindle is still an early adopter product but it is going in the right direction. When the price comes down (and it will), color is added, and simulated tactile feel that allows you to swipe the page in order to change it (haptic touch screen), eBooks will replace paper books/ newspapers the way MP3 are replacing other ways of distributing music.

[Andrew K.]

Huh??? Wow, I've read a lot of glowing praise about the Kindle, but you're the first person I've seen to claim the Kindle somehow doubles your reading speed. Can you elaborate on that?

Okay well it hasn't exactly doubled but I used to be a slow reader, even in things I was interested in, a 500 page book would take me months because with a regular book I:

Was uncomfortable holding the book for some reason, any book really it'd take me a while to get comfortable. and then forget about reading on your side.

I think I have slight ADD because I always get distracted when the two pages are facing me. I see the other words on the other page at the same time I'm reading.

It'd take me a couple of minutes to read a page.

With the Kindle the same number of page book took me 1-2 weeks reading intermittently ( one took me 3 days :D ):

I felt very comfortable holding it, on my lap, stomach, on my side too and it's lighter than some books.

Looking at one page at a time allowed me to focus a lot better

I ended up reading pages a lot faster maybe 30-50 seconds

even though the refresh rate is said to be a bit slow I felt I was getting to the next page faster.


I liked reading before but wasn't much of one before the kindle 2 I've read about maybe 15 books for pleasure in my lifetime ( I'm 21 ) now after having it only a few months I'm on my third novel and reading a 4th simultaneously.

So now I don't just like reading I LOVE IT.

[BRLawyer]

Yes, but this changes the utility of the Kindle how? I already have ways to read and annotate on my mac, I'm talking about how Amazon is missing the boat if they think that letting people read pdf's and putting a bigger screen on the device will suddenly make it usable by scientists.

It doesn't...and as I said above, that's why the Kindle fails.

[Spades]

I think the point being missed by the "use my computer" crowd is that spending several hours reading "e-ink" is much more pleasant than reading off a computer screen.

That would be subjective. I have no problems reading off an LCD, though I read off my iPT, not computers. And yes I read full books. Looking at the Kindle, the contrast looks pretty low. Looks like it would be unreadable in low light.

[mkrishnan]

It doesn't...and as I said above, that's why the Kindle fails.

Your logic is perfect, except that it doesn't really seem to be failing... Amazon cited, what, 35% of their sales of books with Kindle versions being the Kindle version? It seems they're not doing so badly. Amazon, apart from the obvious assumption one could make that they are lying, has suggested (http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssRetailSpecialty/idUSN2336278120090423) the Kindle is doing quite well.

[Chris Blount]

I hate to be a party pooper but do we really need a huge headline about this on this site? Amazon is doing enough to promote it. I come here to read about Mac stuff, not Amazon stuff.

Contact me when a new version of the Kindle reader comes out for the iPhone. Now that is something to get excited about!

[Andrew K.]

reading a real book is so much better then trying to read it on a monochrome screen.

Uhhm what color are book pages? Off white, white, and cream ? With what color text....uhh black.

At first the kindle screen is a bit odd yes, but after reading on it for a while it becomes a pleasant experience, Even when you read it near a lamp the page looks a bit traditional, but other than that it looks excellent, and the sharp text looks nice and easy to read. Have you tried one?

[SandynJosh]

$500 and you can't even scribble notes in the margins.

[Tosser]

That's right I complain. A Mac can do much more than a Kindle. You should also ask the ad agency that makes the laptop hunters for Microsoft why they use Macs as well. Maybe they'll give you the explanation you're looking for.

Our Macs - hell, most smartphones - do a whole lot more than my microphone/recorder setup which at minimum runs at US$6500 with todays exchange rate. But do I want to use a Mac for what I use the recorder for? No.

How much "more" it does isn't the issue here, it's how well it does what little it does.

[seedster2]

Kindle 1 was a tremendous success and Kindle 2 hasn't show any visible signs of not performing well either. Nevertheless, you can always bet on coming to the spin city to read how a product is a "FAIL" and will never be successful.

Do people recall how slowly the original ipod was embraced?

These are the same people who will buy the Apple TV and coin it a "hobby" rather than admit it's a flop.

The minute apple comes out with a sexy version of the same device with similar functionality for similar price you will hear everyone running out to buy one and justify the price.

[Speedy2]

a book reader battery last a week

a whole computer that i can read books on last 3 hrs

...hm thinking about it.


Several netbook models last up to 10 hours in a low load scenario (such as reading an ebook). Enough to get you through an entire day of reading. Sure, the display wouldn't be that nice and you would have to recharge it overnight, but on the other hand a netbook has a few more tricks up its sleeve.

These days, a lot of people have / are buying a netbook anyway. So the question is, would they buy an ebook reader too?

[dacreativeguy]

Wow! This ought to draw the anger of Kindle 2 customers. Didn't they just release the Kindle2 3 or 4 months ago? Companies usually release the high end models first and the lower end later. The people who bought the high end product are happy they still have the better product. But releasing a better Kindle so soon after so many people plunked down $350? Wow!

[Speedy2]

Prove me wrong, the reality is, im not, and you cant, believe me i've extensively checked. You will NOT find a computer with the exact same specifications as an Apple computer for a lower price. Please, dont make yourself look even more stupid and argue it.

Dude, leave it be. This guy is just a troll. Don't feed him.
He will not listen to your points but repeat his same old sermon until he starves.

[polaris20]

As I said on the other thread:

I stick by what I said when the kindle 2.0 came out

It won't take off until it can do colour and replicate a magazine or a text book in full. I still think Amazon's long term goal is to "Kindle" the market and become the leading ebook seller when the hardware big boys get involved.

That's one of the two things holding me back; lack of color, and stupidly overpriced. I'll wait a bit to see if the Apple iPad/Newton 2.0 comes out. I'd gladly pay a couple hundred more for something that does way more than just allow reading eBooks/newspapers/magazines.

[mdriftmeyer]

Uhhm what color are book pages? Off white, white, and cream ? With what color text....uhh black.

At first the kindle screen is a bit odd yes, but after reading on it for a while it becomes a pleasant experience, Even when you read it near a lamp the page looks a bit traditional, but other than that it looks excellent, and the sharp text looks nice and easy to read. Have you tried one?

Ambient lighting and the refraction of direct lighting mixed together hasn't been duplicated to the human eye. It's close, but not complete. It's hard to duplicate inside a small container when the human being isn't inside that container to be enveloped by the light source.

When they come up with an OLED book of pages [say three hundred equal paper weight thick] pages that are flexible OLED sheets, with it's embedded ICs whose external surface has the tactile touch of a book and capable of refreshing [at page 300 you touch a refresh and go back to sheet 1, now page 301, repeat until the end of War in Peace, et al] as the book moves along and holds hundreds of GBs in the spine [the core shell that houses the SSD, CPU, GPU, etc] before needing a new reader list, while being capable of being used for at least a few decades, then I'll continue to love my books.

Realistically, that will happen perhaps when space travel is routine. We will continue to replace hard shell Kindles with incremental upgrades and take decades to reach the notion of duplicating an actual book.

I'd be happy for 30" Flexible OLED displays that I can throw up on backdrops hanging off my wall that doesn't require a custom housing and just works. I'll probably have to wait a decade or so for that one to happen.

[twoodcc]

i hope that this puts more pressure on apple to hurry and release their giant ipod touch / multi touch netbook

[Speedy2]

Since when does the New York Times fit in your pocket? :rolleyes:


Since when does it have to?

When I go on longer trips I have enough reading material in my bag, which I will carry with me either way.

On a short trip on the subway or so, I am very happy to use that ancient device called hand to hold a magazine or newspaper. It has worked efficiently for mankind for eons.

I have never ever heard anyone on a plane say: "geesh, I'm reading this one book right now, but if only I had that other book with me. I could read it instead and pick up reading this one book later"

[mkrishnan]

Wow! This ought to draw the anger of Kindle 2 customers. Didn't they just release the Kindle2 3 or 4 months ago? Companies usually release the high end models first and the lower end later. The people who bought the high end product are happy they still have the better product. But releasing a better Kindle so soon after so many people plunked down $350? Wow!

FWIW, the two sort of form an ecosystem. The Kindle2 remains on the market at the same price as it was before this announcement. So it isn't quite like they came out with a successor that obsoleted the Kindle2 in a few months.

I would guess that users who really want the large format would be miffed, but I personally (who just got a Kindle2 one month ago) am not much at all -- I wouldn't prefer the DX, because I wanted it to read books and I prefer the smaller size of the Kindle2.

[DaveTheRave]

As nice as it is I still don't get the newspaper aspect. Why would you want to pay bloated newspaper subscription fees for outdated news when you can go online and get the same content free and updated to the minute?
-PN

I can imagine a lot of commuters using this to read the paper in the morning. In the NYC metro area its not unusual for many people to take the train to work and be on it for at least an hour each way. If I had that commute I'd consider getting a Kindle. It would be great to never have to fumble for spare change at the newstand, or find out that they ran out of copies of the WSJ. And if I get tired of the day's paper, I could always buy a book on Kindle.

[HiRez]

FWIW, the two sort of form an ecosystem. The Kindle2 remains on the market at the same price as it was before this announcement. So it isn't quite like they came out with a successor that obsoleted the Kindle2 in a few months.

I would guess that users who really want the large format would be miffed, but I personally (who just got a Kindle2 one month ago) am not much at all -- I wouldn't prefer the DX, because I wanted it to read books and I prefer the smaller size of the Kindle2.I don't really see them as a high-end vs. low-end kind of thing either. Just like I don't consider a 17" MacBook Pro high-end and a (theoretical) 12" MacBook Pro, or 15" low-end. They serve different purposes and have tradeoffs (screen size and larger battery vs. size and weight). I assume Amazon will update the software of the small Kindle to natively display PDFs? If not that'd be a little lame and would create more of a difference.

[dbwie]

$489. Did I read that right? $489?! (gasp).

[mkrishnan]

I assume Amazon will update the software of the small Kindle to natively display PDFs?

So far, this seems to not be in the cards -- their statements make it seem as if they're pitching the idea that the larger Kindle screen allowed for effective PDF viewing without reflowing, and so they decided to add the feature.

[scottebaker]

Instead of a Kindle DX, I want a MacBook Air with a swivel hinge that folds it into a power saving grayscale reader. Sold! That would be sweet.

[jbernie]

I agree with everything you say about a device that would function like this. Unfortunately the kindle can not handle this workload. The no color is a deal breaker right off the bat. The price per textbook is still to high, no matter how you break it down. Textbooks on college campuses are out of control currently. But you have to understand that in the current system most students are simply "renting" the textbooks. I just asked one of my students how much books are for the semester. She payed $420 for the semester and she will sell them for $250-300. She is out over the long term $200-250. Those same books (some are not available) using the kindle would cost her $500 and she owns them but she will never use them again. What do you think she is going to do. I would love to get rid of paper books and newspapers but this device can not do that yet. A device further down the road maybe will have all the functions you mentioned.


As far as the Kindle is concerned, it's a step in the right direction e-ink, but otherwise it fails. It came too late in the game for newspapers, blogs and magazines. Carrying a Kindle is not convenient because it doesn't fit in my pocket and if I'm not on the move, I'll use a computer to get this information.

Actually you are missing something groundlessnfree, with Kindle you have the potential to expand market share for magazines & newspapers, at least the more respected ones. The content is delivered direct to the device via 3G, so for a person who travels alot, or who lives outside the normal areas of the NYT delivery the Kindle option is ideal, go to any major city, wake up in the morning and there is the NYT waiting for you, latest edition of say Wired is out and there it is, don't need to be home, don't need to wait, don't need to power up your laptop, don't need to deal with tiny text on your iPhone etc etc.

For once the publications can actually benefit from this, you aren't geographically tied to a physical newspaper. I won't in any way say that the newspaper is saved by any stretch as that market seems to be needing more shakeout anyway, but cost wise the reduction in paper publication & transport could be quite beneficial to a newspaper like the NY Times. (Let alone the potential for offering overseas subscriptions at some point for expats)

Obviously this isn't an instant mass market, but they are definately steps in the right direction. I think we would need an online "vault" of some description that allows your book purchases/licences to be saved and restored on a replacement device (without necessarily needing a computer) and add to that a way in which you can sell/trade your e-titles such that the license/content is removed and transferred to the new owner.

Ultimately like all new technology this is very much new, relative to the existing medium, and it isn't perfect, but if we don't push down this path it would be like the first automakers getting laughed into oblivion because they could never replace the horse & cart with that thing on 4 wheels. The Kindle & other devices may not catch on in full for 5-10 years as such a radical change does require time, but there are both economic and environmental long term benefits from such changes.

One being the publisher can also be the seller of the ebook and can skip over the middle man (Borders, B&N, campus book stores) and price accordingly. There is no issue with book demand not reflecting supply, we have 50 copies of the book you want at the store 30 miles away but none here. Just go online where there is always an ecopy in stock 24*7.

Also you don't have to worry about edition X having 100,000 copies in stock across the book stores when exition Y is being released in a few weeks. Let alone the benefits of providing updated editions to correct publishing errors.

How much money is wasted printing a title to exist on a shelf in a store somewhere just so it has a small probability of selling? Which is then replaced by a new edition which again just sits on a shelf... just in case.

Regarding international release, not sure if Amazon can get the same sort of deals as they have with Sprint regarding free 3G access, that might be a sticking point for some countries, but with such limited ability in being a pc replacement they can probably at worst come up with a deal where you pay $1 or 2 per month or maybe it can be free/discounted if you have an exisiting subscription to the wireless carrier.

As to overall success, probably the biggest obstacle to overcome is standards, if Sony & Amazon agreed to follow the same standards where the publishers do not need to release device specific versions of the titles then they can go a lot further. How many applications have existed on Windows but the companies couldn't/wouldn't justify a version for the Mac? Go beyond the infighting, agree on a standardized format and the market can progress a lot more quickly.

As to the student market, I am sure they can develop (if it isnt already in existance) a way to add notation to text in the books, you have a keyboard which already helps, though adding complex equations might not be so easy, but not taking should not stretch the bounds of reality too much.

[powers74]

Yeah, It's a racket. I blame the school book stores as well giving crappy returns back for your books.


e-follett is the official bookstore of Hell.

[Andrew K.]

Ambient lighting and the refraction of direct lighting mixed together hasn't been duplicated to the human eye. It's close, but not complete. It's hard to duplicate inside a small container when the human being isn't inside that container to be enveloped by the light source.

When they come up with an OLED book of pages [say three hundred equal paper weight thick] pages that are flexible OLED sheets, with it's embedded ICs whose external surface has the tactile touch of a book and capable of refreshing [at page 300 you touch a refresh and go back to sheet 1, now page 301, repeat until the end of War in Peace, et al] as the book moves along and holds hundreds of GBs in the spine [the core shell that houses the SSD, CPU, GPU, etc] before needing a new reader list, while being capable of being used for at least a few decades, then I'll continue to love my books.

Realistically, that will happen perhaps when space travel is routine. We will continue to replace hard shell Kindles with incremental upgrades and take decades to reach the notion of duplicating an actual book.

I'd be happy for 30" Flexible OLED displays that I can throw up on backdrops hanging off my wall that doesn't require a custom housing and just works. I'll probably have to wait a decade or so for that one to happen.

Have you seen CAPRICA? lol:D Sounds good to me but when and how affordable is what I wanna know.

[mkrishnan]

Have you seen CAPRICA? lol:D Sounds good to me but when and how affordable is what I wanna know.

When, if I understood the plotline correctly, would have been 150,000 years ago on the other side of the galaxy, when the human side of your ancestry developed the technology. ;)

[Andrew K.]

When, if I understood the plotline correctly, would have been 150,000 years ago on the other side of the galaxy, when the human side of your ancestry developed the technology. ;)

So your saying we need a time machine to get a badass kindle ? :D

[gloss]

I didn't say that, I said Amazon is testing the waters before spreading lemon juice to the rest of its financial statements...failure factors for the Kindle, and MAJOR differences to any BS comparison you guys have been making with Macs and iPods:

- EXTREMELY limited use;
- monochromatic screen and no possible choice of other paper tones;
- ABSOLUTELY overpriced for its limited scope;
- BULKY.

The Kindle IS DEAD.

'bulky'?

Seriously? Have you ever used one of the things? It's the width and length of a book and like 1/3 of an inch thin. It's freaking tiny.

And two of your three other points are technological issues that not even Apple would be able to get around. Color e-ink is still in the experimental stages. It doesn't exist in consumer products. E-ink BY NATURE cannot produce 'other paper tones'.

Seriously, do your homework before you spout crap.

[gloss]

The iPod Touch is more high tech, had more R&D and is certainly not cheaper to make in the same volumes as the Kindle. A 9.7 inch ipod would probably also cost $499 but that would be more bang for the buck and way cooler. :)

Where do you people come from? The 6" Kindle 2 costs more than an iPhone 3G, and thus than an iPod touch, in components alone.

[galahan]

I think people are underestimating eInk and trivializing the screen challenges. eInk isn't just some neighborhood screen you slap on a device. It's specialized to display text, and it's expensive. Color eInk hasn't been shown by anyone except in prototypes. I have a feeling has issues. But in any case the focus of the Kindle is books, which are mostly in BW.
And people want a touch screen on top of that, which there's no way that eInk would keep up with.

Could Apple make a better device? Probably, but not amazingly better if they also used eInk. I'd love a tablet from Apple but I don't think they could make an iPhone like with eInk as the technology stands right now.

eInk is both it's strongest point and it's curse.

[coolbreeze]

I have the Kindle 2 and love it.

The price for the DX isn't a lot considering a simple college textbook costs over $150 easily.

This is perfect for college students. Save $ in the long run, especially once the cost comes down.

Now to convince editors to publish their cash cow books in e-format for students. Good luck with that.

[doug in albq]

needs to be $99.

and not break when you drop it.

These devices are the future, still not there yet, though.

Can I say this again: absolutely over-priced for the kit you get.

I love my 16 GB iPod Touch!

I 'blogged-outside-the-box' about both of these devices................

[Michael CM1]

I have the Kindle 2 and love it.

The price for the DX isn't a lot considering a simple college textbook costs over $150 easily.

This is perfect for college students. Save $ in the long run, especially once the cost comes down.

Now to convince editors to publish their cash cow books in e-format for students. Good luck with that.

I know this was almost a decade ago, but I never spent more than $90 on a textbook, and that was for a ginormous calculus book. I'm sure prices have gone up, but $150? Show me.

This is the ONLY chance this device has. The problem is you can get a halfway decent Windows or Linux notebook for the same price. You can do way more on a notebook for the same price, which makes the Kindle DX a luxury purchase.

I don't get the orgy over Amazon's Kindle line. It's too expensive for a one-dimensional product. You can already read newspapers online for free, so who the F is going to put down a subscription price for the same content? I work for one, and I wouldn't pay extra for it in a digital format when I can just go to our Web site for free. Until the Web sites of these newspapers start charging for access, the Kindle subscription is just stupid.

As far as eBooks, I have the Kindle reader app for my iPhone. OK, the screen is smaller. But I don't have to spend any extra money on hardware. The sooner Amazon realizes they have a great software idea but a dumb hardware idea, the better off it'll be. Come up with some computer application that reads the Amazon eBooks and you'll have something.

And of course the textbook people have to agree to producing eBooks. That is no small task at all.

[TraceyS/FL]

I know this was almost a decade ago, but I never spent more than $90 on a textbook, and that was for a ginormous calculus book. I'm sure prices have gone up, but $150? Show me.

Amazon search on "textbooks" - from the first page.

http://www.amazon.com/Human-Anatomy-Physiology-Elaine-Marieb/dp/0805359095/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241655226&sr=8-5

OUCH.

$189 retail.....

[queshy]

How is this any better than a netbook?

Try reading an anatomy textbook in black and white...

[jouster]

Ambient lighting and the refraction of direct lighting mixed together hasn't been duplicated to the human eye. It's close, but not complete. It's hard to duplicate inside a small container when the human being isn't inside that container to be enveloped by the light source.

When they come up with an OLED book of pages [say three hundred equal paper weight thick] pages that are flexible OLED sheets, with it's embedded ICs whose external surface has the tactile touch of a book and capable of refreshing [at page 300 you touch a refresh and go back to sheet 1, now page 301, repeat until the end of War in Peace, et al] as the book moves along and holds hundreds of GBs in the spine [the core shell that houses the SSD, CPU, GPU, etc] before needing a new reader list, while being capable of being used for at least a few decades, then I'll continue to love my books.

Realistically, that will happen perhaps when space travel is routine. [...]

Space travel has been routine for many years. But I know what you mean ;-) As to your device, I'll take two please!

Since when does the New York Times fit in your pocket? :rolleyes:

Since that became one of the parameters under which I'll consider purchasing it. Your mileage obviously varies.

[Lesser Evets]

For $500 I am still not sold on the idea. It's still quite a trinket. It's an expensive platform to allow me to read a lot of books I could buy for less than the price of the device.

If Apple is releasing a similar device, but with internet, music, video, color, more memory, applications, text input/export, bluetooth pairing, wifi, internet, etc etc etc.... even at $700 it would womp this device.

[jouster]

For $500 I am still not sold on the idea. It's still quite a trinket. It's an expensive platform to allow me to read a lot of books I could buy for less than the price of the device.

If Apple is releasing a similar device, but with internet, music, video, color, more memory, applications, text input/export, bluetooth pairing, wifi, internet, etc etc etc.... even at $700 it would womp this device.

Except in battery life and free-for-life network access, neither of which is a small thing.

[Chupa Chupa]

$489. Did I read that right? $489?! (gasp).


Don't be so shocked. Amazon is gonna sell dozens of these things! :D

[PVguy]

"The only type of books you would need to carry a whole library of are reference books, and this is the first one that will actually work with those types of books. This one might sell to professionals, especially if they can get their company to pay for it."

That's what I think as well. A copier tech could have the manuals for everything on the route at one location, same with a mobile appliance repair guy, etc.

A kindle is still less convenient than a paperback for casual reading.