Law School doesn't support Macs!

[PolySciSurfer]

Straight from the schools website...

"Your laptop will be shipped directly to the TJSL IT Department. The IT Department staff will inspect your laptop for proper functioning and notify you when it is available for pick-up. If you are coming from out of town, we will hold your laptop for you until you arrive in San Diego. If you decide to go with another brand of computer, that’s okay. TJSL will still provide you with a copy of Symantec Anti-Virus software for your Windows based laptops and will help you diagnose and solve problems with your laptop.

We do not recommend purchasing an Apple Macintosh, for a variety of reasons. The TJSL IT Department will not be able to provide you much support for your Mac, as it’s difficult to maintain a support infrastructure for both.

Additionally, ExamSoft, which is the software used to take your exams on a computer, is not compatible with Apple Macintosh computers. ExamSoft is used by TJSL and many other law schools nationwide, including many states’ bar examiners. The developers of ExamSoft have stated that they have no intention of ever developing a Mac compatible version of their software."

I'm pissed. :mad:

[jackiecanev2]

Wirelessly posted (BB 8900: Opera/9.60 (J2ME/MIDP; Opera Mini/4.2.13918/448; U; en) Presto/2.2.0)

Bootcamp, baby.

And maintaining a mac without your school,s help is NOT difficult.

[MacDawg]

Yeah, it sucks when schools, IT departments, etc. act that way
The arrogance and ignorance can be overwhelming at times

But, with Boot Camp, you can still have the best of both worlds

And maintaining a mac without your school,s help is NOT difficult.

Actually, the Mac will probably not need any maintaining
And if it does, I'd rather a school not do it for me! ;)


Woof, Woof - Dawg http://homepage.mac.com/k.j.vinson/pawprint.gif

[Duff-Man]

Duff-Man says....so, you run this ExamSoft thing under Bootcamp or Parallels or Fusion...seems like an easy solution to me as they have not said you *can't* have a Mac....oh yeah!

[ButtUglyJeff]

There has to be an Apple Store in San Diego, right?

And I would Bootcamp over Parallels or VMFusion, in this case. That way you could show them a Windows desktop.........

[themoonisdown09]

I don't understand why they don't support Macs. Elle Woods has an iBook at Harvard in Legally Blonde!

[Consultant]

They are ret*rded.

I would cover the apple logo with a temporary Dell logo. Bring your mac with windows as the start up disk.

[K3mp]

Where are you going to school? My uncle bought the original Mac back in the 80's to get through law school. I know things have changed, but I think that most quality schools should support macs. I would just run windows in a VM. BTW I'm only in HS so I'm just wondering.

[bruinsrme]

My sons college said the same thing about macs. It has nothing to do with a mac not being able to run the software or a conspiracy on the schools behalf not to support mac. The school just doesn't want to be responsible for students having potental issues with a non-pc based computer. Not everyone is as comuter savy as MR peeps.
Yes there are people running macs in his class.

[Nermal]

It's most likely not the end of the world. When I did my degree we had to use some Windows-only software, such as System Architect and Microsoft Project. I got by with Virtual PC, which was available for free from the IT department. You guys are certainly spoiled with VMware these days! :p

[MikhailT]

Yeah, it sucks when schools, IT departments, etc. act that way
The arrogance and ignorance can be overwhelming at times

But, with Boot Camp, you can still have the best of both worlds



Actually, the Mac will probably not need any maintaining
And if it does, I'd rather a school not do it for me! ;)


Woof, Woof - Dawg http://homepage.mac.com/k.j.vinson/pawprint.gif

Umm, arrogance and ignorance is a bit harsh. I can understand their reasoning to do so. They did not BAN Macs, they just can't support it as most schools are usually Windows AD integrated which lacks support for Macs. AD is very powerful and is useful most of the time. Apple does not care much about the enterprise market and therefore they are not doing anything help Macs integrate with Windows world. It often requires third party solutions to do so and that costs money and training for many IT departments. So it is easier and costs saving just to not support Macs at all.

It has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with arrogance or ignorance, that's not to say that on some cases yes, there are people or departments that just don't like macs at all and totally ban them.

[K3mp]

It is not hard to join and login on an windows AD domain.

[barkmonster]

I don't understand why they don't support Macs. Elle Woods has an iBook at Harvard in Legally Blonde!

I'm sure that's just because it's "Pretty" :D

[mreg376]

Straight from the schools website...

"Your laptop will be shipped directly to the TJSL IT Department. The IT Department staff will inspect your laptop for proper functioning and notify you when it is available for pick-up. If you are coming from out of town, we will hold your laptop for you until you arrive in San Diego. If you decide to go with another brand of computer, that’s okay. TJSL will still provide you with a copy of Symantec Anti-Virus software for your Windows based laptops and will help you diagnose and solve problems with your laptop.

We do not recommend purchasing an Apple Macintosh, for a variety of reasons. The TJSL IT Department will not be able to provide you much support for your Mac, as it’s difficult to maintain a support infrastructure for both.

Additionally, ExamSoft, which is the software used to take your exams on a computer, is not compatible with Apple Macintosh computers. ExamSoft is used by TJSL and many other law schools nationwide, including many states’ bar examiners. The developers of ExamSoft have stated that they have no intention of ever developing a Mac compatible version of their software."

I'm pissed. :mad:

Not a problem. You won't need their support, because it's NOT Windows. As the many other posters here have said, bootcamp or a virtual machine will give you all the compatibility you will need.

[rhsgolfer33]

Apparently the locking software and testing software probably doesn't support Mac. This is pretty common at a lot of law schools, put Windows on it, you'll be fine.

[yoppie]

You can run ExamSoft under Boot Camp. You cannot run it in VMware or Parallels because it defeats the purpose of the software. It's to lock down the computer so you cannot log onto the internet or any computer application other than ExamSoft's blank word pad when you're taking your exam.

For more information on this and other law students who use macs, you should visit Mac Law Students (www.maclawstudents.com)

[dsnort]

Just send them a note.

"Thanks for your concern about my computer, but a Macintosh does not require IT support, (something you might consider in these tough financial times ).

However, as your policy will require me to install Windows on my Mac, and as Windows almost always requires IT support, may I assume that your burgeoning IT staff will be able to supply support for the Windows OS regardless of the hardware?"

[MikhailT]

It is not hard to join and login on an windows AD domain.

It may be easy for seasoned Windows/Mac sysadmins but for Windows only admins and inexperienced sysadmins, they are not that easy. it often requires extra work and time to configure the AD to work with the old SMB clients that Macs use and so on. Also different versions of Windows Servers introduced more stuff that would be compatible with the old versions of SMB/AD utility on Macs. Not to mention that there's a lot of complains about printing, file sharing and so on.

I was bought on one time to work with Windows/Mac integration solution since they were having a lot of issues and couldn't figure out how to make it work but I left the company before the majority of the overhaul started.

[MikhailT]

Just send them a note.

"Thanks for your concern about my computer, but a Macintosh does not require IT support, (something you might consider in these tough financial times ).

However, as your policy will require me to install Windows on my Mac, and as Windows almost always requires IT support, may I assume that your burgeoning IT staff will be able to supply support for the Windows OS regardless of the hardware?"

You never worked in IT support before, have you?

We get a lot of mac users who doesn't have a clue what they're doing on their Macs.

Macs, or any other OS on the planet, will not eliminate the inexperienced users and especially the stubborn ones.

[Zombie Acorn]

The software they use blocks explorer.exe from starting IIRC and runs their own software instead. Bootcamp ftw.

[acurafan]

that's what you get for using at mac. :D

[K3mp]

Macs, or any other OS on the planet, will not eliminate the inexperienced users and especially the stubborn ones.
I sort of agree with that. That is why at my school any certain people can put their MAC address on the server to get internet. Macs are much more forgiving for the inexperienced though, and if a virus can't execute it makes it really hard to spread.

[OttawaGuy]

Sounds like time for PolySciSurfer V. Lawschool ;)

[Little HZ]

Sue 'em!!! ;)

[CalBoy]

Duff-Man says....so, you run this ExamSoft thing under Bootcamp or Parallels or Fusion...seems like an easy solution to me as they have not said you *can't* have a Mac....oh yeah!

There has to be an Apple Store in San Diego, right?

And I would Bootcamp over Parallels or VMFusion, in this case. That way you could show them a Windows desktop.........

Bootcamp would work, but unfortunately Parallels or Fusion would not because the software shutsdown everything but itself and the operating system.

For any upcoming law school students, I'm sure Vista will be easier on the wallet once 7 comes out, and it can't be too difficult to simply purchase a copy off of Ebay.

Or, as I might do, one could simply purchase an old HP/Dell notebook, buy a new battery (if necessary), and use it only for tests. Either way there are many options and one shouldn't be too worried about using a Mac in law school.
They are ret*rded.

It's really the fault of ExamSoft for not writing an OS X version. The only other choice law schools really have is to go back to hand-written tests, which is far worse than suffering a PC or Windows for a few hours every semester.

[Frisco]

Once Windows 7 comes out I doubt anyone would want to use OS X anyway. Most people these days buying Macs are running XP or Vista as their primary OS.

Once Windows 7 comes out OS X is pretty much dead. Apple will start and eventually will only sell their computers as Windows only.

[TwinCities Dan]

Once Windows 7 comes out I doubt anyone would want to use OS X anyway. Most people these days buying Macs are running XP or Vista as their primary OS.

Once Windows 7 comes out OS X is pretty much dead. Apple will start and eventually will only sell their computers as Windows only.

LMFAO! :D

[ravenvii]

I'm in law school and have a Mac. ExamSoft works perfectly fine with Boot Camp.

Or, as I might do, one could simply purchase an old HP/Dell notebook, buy a new battery (if necessary), and use it only for tests. Either way there are many options and one shouldn't be too worried about using a Mac in law school.

When I sold my MacBook Pro and got an iMac, I did this. Got an Compaq Evo N800c for $100. Works beautifully.

Once Windows 7 comes out I doubt anyone would want to use OS X anyway. Most people these days buying Macs are running XP or Vista as their primary OS.

Once Windows 7 comes out OS X is pretty much dead. Apple will start and eventually will only sell their computers as Windows only.

You being a 68000, I truly hope that is sarcasm. No one who would hang here for that long be so stupid.

[K3mp]

Once Windows 7 comes out I doubt anyone would want to use OS X anyway. Most people these days buying Macs are running XP or Vista as their primary OS.

Once Windows 7 comes out OS X is pretty much dead. Apple will start and eventually will only sell their computers as Windows only.
You know I was thinking the same thing. I instead of putting Win7 in a VM I might just install it as the primary OS. Who needs OS X anyway? Win 7 obviously can do everything better than a Mac.:rolleyes:

Bootcamp would work, but unfortunately Parallels or Fusion would not because the software shutsdown everything but itself and the operating system.


Can you Please explain?

[sushi]

Once Windows 7 comes out I doubt anyone would want to use OS X anyway. Most people these days buying Macs are running XP or Vista as their primary OS.

Once Windows 7 comes out OS X is pretty much dead. Apple will start and eventually will only sell their computers as Windows only.
Sure, we believe you.

Have some statistics to back your statement up? Doubt it.

While Windows 7 will be a good addition to the Windows OS family, it won't replace the Mac OS.

To the OP, just run Windows via Bootcamp.

[ravenvii]

Can you Please explain?

ExamSoft works by rebooting your computer into a modified shell, where the only thing you see is ExamSoft (actually, SofTest, ExamSoft is the company, SofTest is the program). This is so you can't go online and Google the answers or chat with friends while you take the exam or whatnot.

This, obviously, doesn't work if you're in a virtual environment (you can have ExamSoft in a window and use Safari to Google).

[CalBoy]

When I sold my MacBook Pro and got an iMac, I did this. Got an Compaq Evo N800c for $100. Works beautifully.


I haven't decided what I'll do just yet since I still have a full year before I'll be bothering to consider what I need for law school. By that time my current MBP would be over 3 years old and maybe won't be as reliable as I would prefer. Then again it's held up beautifully for the first two years of its life, so maybe it won't be such a big deal.

Heck if I wait and buy during the summer sale where you get a free iPod Nano, I would probably make enough selling the Nano to get myself a cheap little PC notebook and have a new macbook pro.

Oh the possibilities...:D
Can you Please explain?

ravenvii already mentioned the critical elements, so I'll just concur with what he said. The software essentially disables you from doing anything but typing in its window. As you can imagine, it would be quite the problem if law school students would be able to use their computers to look up information during a test. Hence the reason they use the software.

[neiltc13]

At my University, we sit exams using a pen and paper...

[CalBoy]

At my University, we sit exams using a pen and paper...

You're also not in an American law school, where modern exams have made typing one's responses quite the necessity.

Undergrads don't use this software; we still write our exams the old fashioned way. ;)

[ravenvii]

You're also not in an American law school, where modern exams have made typing one's responses quite the necessity.

Undergrads don't use this software; we still write our exams the old fashioned way. ;)

Having to write your exams by hand is a fate worse than death.

[K3mp]

I
ravenvii already mentioned the critical elements, so I'll just concur with what he said. The software essentially disables you from doing anything but typing in its window. As you can imagine, it would be quite the problem if law school students would be able to use their computers to look up information during a test. Hence the reason they use the software.

Ok that makes sense I misread the earlier post.

[dsnort]

You never worked in IT support before, have you?

You never heard a joke before, have you? :D:D:D (Just to be clear)!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Probably should have, but didn't!

[MikeTheC]

If the school is expensive to attend, then they can support a Mac. If they refuse, then find another school.

Edison State College, a probably nothing-state-college compared to some prestigious university, supports Macs. If they can do it, then this university can do it.

Students should be asking themselves if the school they're attending is taking these kinds of shortcuts in IT, then what other shortcuts are they taking with the student body's collective education?

[QCassidy352]

It's really the fault of ExamSoft for not writing an OS X version. The only other choice law schools really have is to go back to hand-written tests, which is far worse than suffering a PC or Windows for a few hours every semester.

...or they could allow typed exams without ExamSoft. That's what I did for 3 years of law school.

Access to the internet was vanishingly little help on my law school exams. Hell, lots of classes allowed full-text searching of the whole semester's notes, too. That may tell you the name of the case, but it's not going to help you spot the issue or apply the rule to a novel situation.

Bottom line, if your school insists on ExamSoft, just buy a mac and boot in to windows for exams. Done and done.

[bruinsrme]

If the school is expensive to attend, then they can support a Mac. If they refuse, then find another school.

Edison State College, a probably nothing-state-college compared to some prestigious university, supports Macs. If they can do it, then this university can do it.

Students should be asking themselves if the school they're attending is taking these kinds of shortcuts in IT, then what other shortcuts are they taking with the student body's collective education?

I am sure the school is very concerned they won't fill seats; just like at my sons school. :rolleyes:

[rhsgolfer33]

If the school is expensive to attend, then they can support a Mac. If they refuse, then find another school.

Edison State College, a probably nothing-state-college compared to some prestigious university, supports Macs. If they can do it, then this university can do it.

Students should be asking themselves if the school they're attending is taking these kinds of shortcuts in IT, then what other shortcuts are they taking with the student body's collective education?

Its not about supporting Macs, its about testing, the testing software is not compatible with OS X. Of course a Mac will work on their wireless, etc, but that doesn't matter much when the company that makes the testing software only supports Windows.

Choosing a law school based on their Mac support seems a little short sighted...

Shortcut in IT, give me a break, its pretty understandable for a law school to not provide support for Macs. We're not talking about a school teaching graphics, music, photography, etc, we're talking about a law school; it would alarm me if a school with creative programs didn't support Macs, but a law school? Who cares.

Short aside, who actually needs that much support on their Mac anyway? And if it is needed that's what the Apple store, Google, and MacRumors are for.

I am sure the school is very concerned they won't fill seats; just like at my sons school. :rolleyes:

Yeah, especially a law school; not too difficult to fill seats at most law schools.

[63dot]

Examsoft works on the newest Macs w/o much issue. During exam time, it's not a great thing to have the software glitch in the middle of an IRAC. For safety, I like the idea of a dedicated PC for law school. If that bugs you, tuition and those beloved law textbooks will be a really scary cost.

[63dot]

It's really the fault of ExamSoft for not writing an OS X version. The only other choice law schools really have is to go back to hand-written tests, which is far worse than suffering a PC or Windows for a few hours every semester.

If you know the rule of the law (common law, MPC, exceptions such as the non-MPC states), know how to analyze the facts and the law concisely, then it shouldn't matter if you type or write an exam. Usually, law professors don't want quantity, or fluff, and model bar exam answers will attest to that.

For example, if you are writing about negligence in torts, stick with "duty, breach, causation, damages, and defenses". There's no need to write a personal blog about what one thinks about negligence on a law exam. One can get to the point by writing out an exam answer methodically and few absolutely need the faster medium of typing lest they go into a whole breakdown of the Palsgraf case and the finer points of Justice Andrews and Justice Cardozo. :)

[Rodimus Prime]

It is examsoft.

Examsoft has no motivation to support the 5% of OSX users. It is not worth their time and money to make a verson that works on OSX.

It is the price you pay for OSX being such a limited market share.

**Note any typos or anything else is due to the fact that I am drunk right now.

[63dot]

It is examsoft.

Examsoft has no motivation to support the 5% of OSX users. It is not worth their time and money to make a verson that works on OSX.

It is the price you pay for OSX being such a limited market share.

**Note any typos or anything else is due to the fact that I am drunk right now.

You really don't have to worry about spelling here, or in law school. Examsoft does not have spellcheck. :)

The way law school exams are graded is that walking into the test and putting your name on it gives you a 45 in most schools, each instance where you spot issues and apply them to the law in a sound analysis generally gives you bonuses in 5 point increments, sometimes just 2.5 points.

The typical passing bar score averages to 63.9 for the California Bar so a 60 will barely get you there and a 75 and better will have the Bar invite you to be a Bar grader. A few people in California get an 80 each year. No points taken away for any spelling errors or for anything for that matter.

[Rodimus Prime]

You really don't have to worry about spelling here, or in law school. Examsoft does not have spellcheck. :)

The way law school exams are graded is that walking into the test and putting your name on it gives you a 45 in most schools, each instance where you spot issues and apply them to the law in a sound analysis generally gives you bonuses in 5 point increments, sometimes just 2.5 points.

The typical passing bar score averages to 63.9 for the California Bar so a 60 will barely get you there and a 75 and better will have the Bar invite you to be a Bar grader. A few people in California get an 80 each year. No points taken away for any spelling errors or for anything for that matter.

Yeah, I will also add to the fact that I posted eariler. Examsoft is a nitch software. OSX is a nitch OS. So putting those 2 things together would make very limited market potentional for that software. Chances are not enough to even cover the cost of making it. Much less a profit.

[63dot]

Yeah, I will also add to the fact that I posted eariler. Examsoft is a nitch software. OSX is a nitch OS. So putting those 2 things together would make very limited market potentional for that software. Chances are not enough to even cover the cost of making it. Much less a profit.

It is really no big deal to get a cheap PC laptop dedicated to the three years of law school. PCs running Windows may not be as cool or fun or pretty, but they work and worrying about Windows and learning/working with the PC is the last thing that will be on the mind of any law student.

[rhsgolfer33]

It is really no big deal to get a cheap PC laptop dedicated to the three years of law school. PCs running Windows may not be as cool or fun or pretty, but they work and worrying about Windows and learning/working with the PC is the last thing that will be on the mind of any law student.

Seriously, when law school can cost upwards of $150,000 worrying about shelling out $300 for a PC laptop is pretty funny. Not to mention the difficulty factor. I doubt too many people attending law school right now care if they can use a Mac on tests or not.