Cats and Dogs on Vegan Diet!?!

[Leareth]

I just read an article (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090512.wlpetting12art1827/BNStory/lifeMain/home) on people feeding dogs and cats a vegan diet. :eek::confused::eek:

While Ok i can see cases where a dog might not be able to deal with an animal protein based diet.

I just don't see vegan cat working too well. they are kind of required to be carnivores.

If you don't want pet to eat meat don't get a pet that eats meat.

just a rant.
almost as bad as those deluded vegan mothers who refuse to breast feed and feed nut milks instead...

[smurfjammer]

I have a friend that feeds their dog chocolate!!!
They know it is bad for their dog but still do it because they say "The dog likes it" - some people are idiots.

[anjinha]

I have a friend that feeds their dog chocolate!!!
They know it is bad for their dog but still do it because they say "The dog likes it" - some people are idiots.

Dogs can actually get chocolate poisoning.

[RedTomato]

almost as bad as those deluded vegan mothers who refuse to breast feed and feed nut milks instead...

I know a fair few vegans, and I've never ever heard of this. Source please. A quick google doesn't show a single case of this ever.

Here's a link to a vegan website page with several dozen vegan mothers all unanimously saying breastfeeding is cool and vegan. (summary: breastmilk isn't exploitive, and is given though free choice.)

http://www.vegfamily.com/vegan-view/breastmilk-and-formula.htm

[Leareth]

I know a fair few vegans, and I've never ever heard of this. Source please. A quick google doesn't show a single case of this ever.

Here's a link to a vegan website page with several dozen vegan mothers all unanimously saying breastfeeding is cool and vegan. (summary: breastmilk isn't exploitive, and is given though free choice.)

http://www.vegfamily.com/vegan-view/breastmilk-and-formula.htm

there was an entire thread on this a couple years back . I am not saying ALL vegan mother, I am saying those deluded ones. like three of my neighbours.

this thread was supposed to be about pushing human morals onto animals. to me feeding a cat a vegan ( not vegetarian) diet is cruelty.

[Shivetya]

Without proper supplements it will harm the dog or cat.

[mscriv]

Strange. Sadly some people are just obsessive about everything even their pets. I know a lady who is odd about her cats diet, but it's not in the vegan direction. She insists that they must have fresh food as if they were in their natural habitat, "the wild." She buys fresh meat and fish, expensive stuff, and specially prepares it for them. She says their favorite is fresh Salmon. Now you tell me, when's the last time you saw a special on Discovery with the elusive wild tabby cat standing mid stream catching fresh Salmon. It's so ridiculous, her cats eat better than her husband. I'm not saying don't take care of your animals or try to be natural, but be realistic too. :rolleyes:

[iGary]

My vet said she does not recommend feeding cats seafood. It's not a food they are designed to digest (the oils, especially).

She recommends canned food first (chicken) or a dry food with as a low a carb content as possible (most are loaded with corn meal). She said in an ideal world, an all-meat diet is healthiest, preferably poultry.

Cats are not vegans (though mine likes to eat wheat grass as a snack).

[iJohnHenry]

Cats eat grass to "empty" their stomachs. They have incisors for a reason.

The people doing this should spend their time on other pursuits, which might actually benefit Society.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g158/MouseMeat/Smilies/humbug.gif

[iGary]

Cats eat grass to "empty" their stomachs. They have incisors for a reason.

The people doing this should spend their time on other pursuits, which might actually benefit Society.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g158/MouseMeat/Smilies/humbug.gif

Not mine. She eats it like it's a cobb salad.

[Zombie Acorn]

I let my cat decide what it likes. Watch out if you are eating tuna or chicken though, sneaky bastard will steal it. :(

[it5five]

I let my cat decide what it likes.

Same. They love this semi-solid food my girlfriend and I buy for them. In terms of dry food they have some "natural" thing. But one of my cats also loves cranberries, so we'll give him a few whenever we have any.

[Don't panic]

anyone ever experience cats going completely nuts for olives?

I know a fair few vegans, and I've never ever heard of this. Source please. A quick google doesn't show a single case of this ever.


you should brush up with your searching skills then ;). There are definitively people feeding vegan diets to their pets.
It would be hard to envision companies selling vegan pet food if there was no market for it.

two examples: http://www.vegancats.com/ http://www.v-dogfood.com/

there is even a wikipedia entry on this:
Vegetarian or vegan cat food has been available for many years, and is targeted primarily at vegan and vegetarian pet owners. While a small percentage of owners choose such a diet based on its perceived health benefits, the majority do so due to ethical concerns.[15] Cats are obligate carnivores and require nutrients (including arginine, taurine, arachidonic acid, vitamin A, vitamin B12 and niacin) found in meat sources that cannot be obtained in sufficient amount in plant sources. According to the National Research Council, "unsupplemented vegetarian diets can result in harmful deficiencies of certain essential amino acids, fatty acids, and vitamins." [16] Vegetarian pet food companies attempt to correct these deficiencies by supplementing their products with synthetically produced nutrients.
Organizations that advocate vegan or vegetarian diets for people have split opinions regarding vegetarian or vegan cat food. The International Vegetarian Union[17], the Vegan Society[18] and Peta[19] are some of the organizations that support a vegan or vegetarian diet for cats. On the other hand, the Vegetarian Society suggests people "consider carefully" and that many cats will not adjust to a vegetarian diet. They provide a list of necessary nutrients that will need to be supplemented with a recommendation to consult a veterinarian or animal nutritionist for those who want to try.[20] The Animal Protection Institute also does not recommend a vegetarian diet for cats and cautions that dietary deficiencies may take months or years to develop and may be untreatable. They do not recommend relying on supplements because they may not contain necessary co-factors and enzymes and have not been studied for long term implications.[21] The animal welfare organization American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, although suggesting a supplemented vegetarian diet for dogs,[22] recommends against a vegetarian and vegan diets for cats.[23]
...

[leekohler]

I let my cat decide what it likes. Watch out if you are eating tuna or chicken though, sneaky bastard will steal it. :(

My cat will eat anything. My roommate baked a cake one day and left the kitchen for a few minutes with the cake uncovered. He came back and she was devouring the cake! :eek:

And trying to make a cat vegan is ridiculous.

[Don't panic]

anyways, it doesn't seem like a particularly good idea, especially for cats.
Is seems also borderline for vegans to own pets in the first place.

[takao]

anyone ever experience cats going completely nuts for olives?

true that .. we found out when one accidently fell down
but not all cats like them

on the other side we have a cat who goes nuts when she smells chocolate: it went so far that during eastern once with a easter bunny sitting inside it's nest, but with the packaging removed, lost it's ears ;)

also funnily enough crunchy salty snack food like chips etc. seem to attract one of our cats .. going so far that making it next to impossible to eat them on the couch


with such "crazy food for cats" we give her perhaps a small bite to try and that's it

[iJohnHenry]

Is seems also borderline for vegans to own pets in the first place.

A very interesting observation, and one that vegans would probably not wish to pursue. ;)

[Randman]

That's horrible. Any stupid person to do that should be killed.

I'm serious. People trying to push their stupid belief system on a pet and hurting it in the process really boils my blood.

[RedTomato]

I know a fair few vegans, and I've never ever heard of this. Source please. A quick google doesn't show a single case of this ever.
you should brush up with your searching skills then ;). There are definitively people feeding vegan diets to their pets.
It would be hard to envision companies selling vegan pet food if there was no market for it.

You should brush up on your reading skills too. Someone in this thread claimed some vegan mothers refused to breastfeed their babies as 'it's not vegan'.

I was pointing out that this rather extreme statement needed sources.

As for vegan pet food, yes I'm well aware of it. I'm ambivalent. Meat-based pet food is very poorly made and is full of absolute *****. Have you ever tasted cat food?

Well-made vegan pet food could well be more heathy than poorly made meat-based food. I've seen so many cats die of cancer that I'm starting to suspect their food or other environmental factors.

[takao]

Meat-based pet food is very poorly made and is full of absolute *****. including what ? .. unless you are talking about artificial aromas etc. i don't know what kind of meat would be "*****" for a cat


Have you ever tasted cat food?


cat food should be tasty/authentic to cats, not humans (humans prefer spices etc.)
in fact the most correct food would be small mice and small birds


Well-made vegan pet food could well be more heathy than poorly made meat-based food.

just like a well made selection of meats will be healthier that a poor selection of grass to a cow ?
Cats are _highly specialized_ on eating meat


I've seen so many cats die of cancer that I'm starting to suspect their food or other environmental factors.

most cats live a lot longer in captivity than they would in the wild so it's normal that more cancers develop at high age



if somebody wants a pet eating vegetarian/vegan get such an animal in the first place .. like a rabbit

[imac/cheese]

if somebody wants a pet eating vegetarian/vegan get such an animal in the first place .. like a rabbit

Not all rabbits are vegan...

[redwarrior]

Meat-based pet food is very poorly made and is full of absolute *****.
Not all, see here. (http://www.wysong.net/) I found this company when I was looking for ferret food. Ferrets lack the part of the intestine that digests veges, so they have to have all meat. It can get expensive, so thankfully I have found a version that's a little cheaper than what this company offers.

[ZiggyPastorius]

You should brush up on your reading skills too. Someone in this thread claimed some vegan mothers refused to breastfeed their babies as 'it's not vegan'.

I was pointing out that this rather extreme statement needed sources.

As for vegan pet food, yes I'm well aware of it. I'm ambivalent. Meat-based pet food is very poorly made and is full of absolute *****. Have you ever tasted cat food?

Well-made vegan pet food could well be more heathy than poorly made meat-based food. I've seen so many cats die of cancer that I'm starting to suspect their food or other environmental factors.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18574603/

Soy milk, not human milk.

[diamond.g]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18574603/

Soy milk, not human milk.

Those people are morons... :mad:

[Wotan31]

Veganism is idiotic. Humans are omnivores. Mankind has survived for tens of thousands of years by consuming meat. In many nations even today, meat is the only source of protein readily available. Only just in the past few decades have people (in a select few countries) had such ready access to a nutritious diet of "vegan friendly" foods. It's nothing more than a silly fad for hipster doofuses.

Anyone forcing a pet to eat a vegan diet should be arrested for animal cruelty.

[mscriv]

Not all rabbits are vegan...

"It's just a little bunny... AARRGH!" Great reference! :D

As far as cats eating weird things around the house, one of our cats is nuts about Doritos. Seriously, if your eating them she will get right up in your face and try to lick the cheese dust off the chips before you can eat them. If she can't get to a chip then she'll go after your lips and fingers for any residue. Our other cat will eat straight butter. We learned this when my wife left out a stick so it could soften and we busted him in a licking frenzy like it was ice cream.

Cats are so cool, but they can be really weird at times.

[leekohler]

Those people are morons... :mad:

Agreed.

"It's just a little bunny... AARRGH!" Great reference! :D

As far as cats eating weird things around the house, one of our cats is nuts about Doritos. Seriously, if your eating them she will get right up in your face and try to lick the cheese dust off the chips before you can eat them. If she can't get to a chip then she'll go after your lips and fingers for any residue. Our other cat will eat straight butter. We learned this when my wife left out a stick so it could soften and we busted him in a licking frenzy like it was ice cream.

Cats are so cool, but they can be really weird at times.

Mine likes tomato sauce too. Anything with tomato sauce makes her crazy. My last cat was the same way, but he went much crazier for it than my current one does. WTF? Tomato sauce?

[diamond.g]

Veganism is idiotic. Humans are omnivores. Mankind has survived for tens of thousands of years by consuming meat. In many nations even today, meat is the only source of protein readily available. Only just in the past few decades have people (in a select few countries) had such ready access to a nutritious diet of "vegan friendly" foods. It's nothing more than a silly fad for hipster doofuses.

Anyone forcing a pet to eat a vegan diet should be arrested for animal cruelty.

eh, I understand why some people are vegan. I also understand the whole health thing. I just think that the couple that didn't breastfeed were stupid. Shoot it is the best source of nutrition for babies.

[Wotan31]

eh, I understand why some people are vegan. I also understand the whole health thing. I just think that the couple that didn't breastfeed were stupid. Shoot it is the best source of nutrition for babies.
What is the "whole health thing"? It is very very difficult to eat a proper balanced diet consisting only of vegan foods. Extremely difficult. I would guess the vast majority of so-called vegans are malnourished.

It's just like the vegetarians whose diet ends up consisting primarily of cheese quesadillas. They claim health reasons for their chosen diet, then end up eating nothing but junk foods.

But yeah, I think we're all in agreement on the pure stupidity of the couple who refused to breastfeed.

[fivepoint]

My cat will eat anything. My roommate baked a cake one day and left the kitchen for a few minutes with the cake uncovered. He came back and she was devouring the cake! :eek:

Our cat doesn't like the following:
Raw shrimp, beef, pork, or chicken
Lunch Meat
Cooked Seafood of any kind
Cooked meat of any kind

Our cat does like the following:
Olives
Pickles
Potato Chips
Ice Water
Ice


He also 'barks' when the doorbell rings, plays fetch better than any dog I've seen, loves when my family's dog comes over to play, and growls at animals outside. He's officially one weird cat.

[fivepoint]

I've got a few friends from college who turned into 'fruititarians'. They will still eat other stuff once and a while, but their main diet consists of fruit, fruit, and more fruit. According to them, you don't need anything else to survive... it's what we're supposed to eat and anything else is not 'natural'.

[Gelfin]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18574603/

Soy milk, not human milk.

You beat me with this reference. Here's another (http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/11/08/child.starved/index.html). It's sad, but it does happen occasionally. In any group there are a few stupid people so caught up in blind adherence to principle that they carry it far beyond anything that makes rational sense.

Trying to enforce your anti-carnivory principle on your cat is like trying to enforce your anti-drowning principle on your fish.

[diamond.g]

What is the "whole health thing"? It is very very difficult to eat a proper balanced diet consisting only of vegan foods. Extremely difficult. I would guess the vast majority of so-called vegans are malnourished.

It's just like the vegetarians whose diet ends up consisting primarily of cheese quesadillas. They claim health reasons for their chosen diet, then end up eating nothing but junk foods.

But yeah, I think we're all in agreement on the pure stupidity of the couple who refused to breastfeed.

It can be hard, but it is doable. It takes a good bit of research, and you basically have to like cooking your own food. My wifes biggest question about eating meat (and dairy products) is what is in them that you cannot get from other sources? As far as health, I tend to lose the argument around heart disease and high cholesterol vs malnutrition, which is preventable/correctable if you do research before making the change.

[hulugu]

Veganism is idiotic. Humans are omnivores. Mankind has survived for tens of thousands of years by consuming meat. In many nations even today, meat is the only source of protein readily available. Only just in the past few decades have people (in a select few countries) had such ready access to a nutritious diet of "vegan friendly" foods. It's nothing more than a silly fad for hipster doofuses.

Anyone forcing a pet to eat a vegan diet should be arrested for animal cruelty.

I believe you're incorrect on this one. While humans are definitely omnivores, this is readily apparent by our teeth, protein sources have varied over the millennia and have included and continue to include foods like nuts, soybean curds, as well as eggs, milk, insects, and even animal blood from a small incision.

In many countries besides the United States, meat is a rare commodity and tends to be eaten in small amounts.

[takao]

My wifes biggest question about eating meat (and dairy products) is what is in them that you cannot get from other sources?

vitamin B12 family for example can be problematic ... only produced by bacteria in small amounts and in bigger amounts available only in animals,dairy products, eggs etc.

the tricky thing is that the human liver has a reservoir of up to 2-3 years so you not getting any symptoms fast after changing your diet to a strictly vegan one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12#Foods

unless of course you take supplements or food enriched with B12 ... special cereals etc. (which i suppose in the factory is produced by bacteria)

[iPhoneNYC]

Of course you can't eat cats and dogs if you're vegan...

[FreeState]

I started feeding my dog an all raw meat diet when we got him. He did okay on if for a few months and then my partner started to give him "human food" and he would no longer eat the raw. He now gets very limited human treats and has a raw bio coated raw kibble that he likes.

Im Buddhist and a lacto-ovo pescitarian (dairy and fish only). I have more of a problem trying to prevent flea's so I dont have to kill them than feeding my dog meat. Its what he naturally eats in the wild.

(I have had to carefully remove the flies outside- trying not to kill them - once then give him a bath etc etc - now I just make sure once flea season comes he has his monthly drops and he never gets them).

[diamond.g]

vitamin B12 family for example can be problematic ... only produced by bacteria in small amounts and in bigger amounts available only in animals,dairy products, eggs etc.

the tricky thing is that the human liver has a reservoir of up to 2-3 years so you not getting any symptoms fast after changing your diet to a strictly vegan one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_B12#Foods

unless of course you take supplements or food enriched with B12 ... special cereals etc. (which i suppose in the factory is produced by bacteria)

Wife says fortified food, nutritional yeast and supplements...

[Leareth]

Wife says fortified food, nutritional yeast and supplements...

but the you get those people who don't want to kill yeasts.
and refuse to eat yeast breads, vegemite/marmite and anything derived from yeast.
yes I do know a couple.
pale , unhealthy looking creeps. ;)

[synth3tik]

People who feed their pets vegan food are even worse then people who keep there young kids on vegan diets. At least as humans were made to process both plants and animals in our bellies. Cats and dogs, not so much.

I go out of my way to find the highest meat content in my cat's food, and she is doing extremely well.

Cats and dogs can benefit from some amount of veggies and grains, but as a whole there diets should be meat based. I mean, their carnivorous.

I only eat fish once every other month or so, and turkey only on thanksgiving, but I would never push my ideals on my cat.

[anjinha]

just a rant.
almost as bad as those deluded vegan mothers who refuse to breast feed and feed nut milks instead...

Just as bad as mothers who mainly give their kids fast food and sugary snacks.

I agree that vegan mothers refusing to breast feed is idiotic but mothers who eat meat also make lots of poor decisions regarding nutrition.

Veganism is idiotic. Humans are omnivores. Mankind has survived for tens of thousands of years by consuming meat. In many nations even today, meat is the only source of protein readily available. Only just in the past few decades have people (in a select few countries) had such ready access to a nutritious diet of "vegan friendly" foods. It's nothing more than a silly fad for hipster doofuses.

I'm not a vegan, nor am I advocating veganism, but if done right a vegan, or vegetarian diet, is healthier than a lot of diets that include meat, since they tend to have less fat and less colesterol.

One of the most common arguments against veganism is that vegans don't eat enough protein. Not only that is totally false (you can get enough protein from beans, grains and seeds) but actually most people who eat meat eat too much protein.

That being said I agree that we shouldn't force a vegan diet on a cat or a dog.

[hulugu]

...I'm not a vegan, nor am I advocating veganism, but if done right a vegan, or vegetarian diet, is healthier than a lot of diets that include meat, since they tend to have less fat and less colesterol.

One of the most common arguments against veganism is that vegans don't eat enough protein. Not only that is totally false (you can get enough protein from beans, grains and seeds) but actually most people who eat meat eat too much protein.

That being said I agree that we shouldn't force a vegan diet on a cat or a dog.


I agree and the opposite is really interesting. There are some people who are almost carnivorous, eating lots of meat and various byproducts who avoid vegetables, fruits, and many grains. There's also another set who live better through chemistry, so to speak.

Fast food is mostly converted corn and various chemicals. If I had to choose between being a vegan or living on fast food, I'd choose the former.

[anjinha]

Fast food is mostly converted corn and various chemicals. If I had to choose between being a vegan or living on fast food, I'd choose the former.

Exactly.

I'm not saying people should become vegans (I'm not one myself) but I also don't like the notion that vegans just end up weak and malnourished. That's just a myth. You can end up sick in whatever diet you choose if you don't know what you're doing

That being said, veganism is not easy, you have to know a bit about nutrition to make sure you're eating right.

[diamond.g]

but the you get those people who don't want to kill yeasts.
and refuse to eat yeast breads, vegemite/marmite and anything derived from yeast.
yes I do know a couple.
pale , unhealthy looking creeps. ;)

Haha, that is sad... For the record, my cats eat a non vegan diet... And my wife is okay with that.

[ibook30]

Exactly.

I'm not saying people should become vegans (I'm not one myself) but I also don't like the notion that vegans just end up weak and malnourished. That's just a myth. You can end up sick in whatever diet you choose if you don't know what you're doing

That being said, veganism is not easy, you have to know a bit about nutrition to make sure you're eating right.

Well put- and FWIW, Einstein though vegetarian diets were a good idea, and he was a smart guy (I know- he was into physics, not so much biology, but it's freakin' Einstein!).

I think vegan / vegetarian diets are a good choice for people. As for animals and pets, I'm not sure. I would tend to say they need meat ('specially the carnivores) while we have choices.

If our choices have negative impacts on our ability to live on the earth, then we should reconsider. This applies to how we meet our demand for meat, and how we farm the land. Both can be done wrong (or right,, we should try to do it right!) But currently- we are doing a pretty crummy job with the demand for meat, IMO.

Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. ~Albert Einstein

[it5five]

He also 'barks' when the doorbell rings, plays fetch better than any dog I've seen, loves when my family's dog comes over to play, and growls at animals outside. He's officially one weird cat.

We both have officially weird cats. One of my cats loves to play fetch. As long as he has a soft mouse-shaped toy, he can play forever. My other cat runs up to the door and goes nuts when I get home from work.

[Counterfit]

Not mine. She eats it like it's a cobb salad.
Did you give her some beu cheese to go with it?

My cat will eat anything. My roommate baked a cake one day and left the kitchen for a few minutes with the cake uncovered. He came back and she was devouring the cake! :eek:

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/funny-pictures-cat-wants-his-birthday-cake.jpg

[Nickygoat]

Here's (http://www.messybeast.com/catfoods.htm) an interesting article on cat's diets around the world (original source is Popbitch :eek: so maybe not massively reliable ;)).

Basic premise is that cat's diets are related to human diets; Mexican cats quite happily eat chilli, Japanese cats live off raw fish etc.

Weird behaviour? My old cat loved chocolate & yoghurt. Her brother loves olives, Pringles or anything salty.

He also attacks the postman; so much so that I no longer get any post delivered :(

[yg17]

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/funny-pictures-balogna-first-name-nom.jpg

And people really want to take away his baloney? Those bastards! :mad:


And my dog has eaten her own poo.....is that a part of a vegan diet?

[.Andy]

but the you get those people who don't want to kill yeasts.
and refuse to eat yeast breads, vegemite/marmite and anything derived from yeast.
yes I do know a couple.
pale , unhealthy looking creeps. ;)
To clarify this, people that don't eat yeast usually don't do so out of the welfare of the yeast. They do so because they've been scammed ay alternative medicine quacks that push an anti-yeast diet (no breads, beers etc) because they proclaim eating yeast leads to health problems such as thrush (i.e. a yeast infection). This is of course complete bollocks.

[Leareth]

To clarify this, people that don't eat yeast usually don't do so out of the welfare of the yeast. They do so because they've been scammed ay alternative medicine quacks that push an anti-yeast diet (no breads, beers etc) because they proclaim eating yeast leads to health problems such as thrush (i.e. a yeast infection). This is of course complete bollocks.

Or in the case of those two I know, they do it out of welfare for yeast, don't want to kill living things.
It gets interesting when I ask them what about plants ? those not living things ?
but they are bad example of vegans, bad example of humanity actually but I digress.

[Ntombi]

Dogs and cats are carnivores. The only difference is that dogs can survive--though not thrive--on a vegetarian diet. I consider that animal abuse.

I feed my dog like the carnivore he is. He eats raw meat, bones, and organs. It's easy, cheap, and, most importantly, healthiest for him.

[.Andy]

Or in the case of those two I know, they do it out of welfare for yeast, don't want to kill living things.
If this is true they'd be one of only a handful of people that do so. Yeast are more analogous to fungi (i.e. mushrooms). It should be clarified that this is not a common dietary choice and should not put in the same basket as veganism or vegetarianism which have their own ethical justifications.

but they are bad example of vegans
Vegans don't have a problem eating yeast.

bad example of humanity actually but I digress.
I don't think people that people trying to eat ethically (no matter how misguided) is a sign of bad example of humanity. Their intentions are in the right place and they are making an effort. A little more education is perhaps needed on the issue.

[Leareth]

I don't think people that people trying to eat ethically (no matter how misguided) is a sign of bad example of humanity. Their intentions are in the right place and they are making an effort. A little more education is perhaps needed on the issue.

I wasn't referring to their eating habits.

[iJohnHenry]

Vegans don't have a problem eating yeast.

What?? These are living organisms. As are the good bacteria that you need in your gut for proper digestion of your food.

Do they have to be sentient at some level for Vegans to shun them???

[.Andy]

What?? These are living organisms.
It's not "living organisms" per se that vegans try to avoid exploiting.

As are the good bacteria that you need in your gut for proper digestion of your food.
Congratulations on your ruminantary understanding of the digestive tract.

Do they have to be sentient at some level for Vegans to shun them???
No. Their philosophy is based on decreasing their impact on animals where and where practically possible. The decision isn't based on sentience.

[iJohnHenry]

Congratulations on your ruminantary understanding of the digestive tract.

"ruminantary" could not be found.

No. Their philosophy is based on decreasing their impact on animals where and where practically possible.

OK, that makes more sense. So, it hinges on the definition of animals then, does it??

Fowl, fish are excluded.

The decision isn't based on sentience.

If it were, it would make more sense to me.

[.Andy]

"ruminantary" could not be found.
It was an awful pun for my own amusement only.

OK, that makes more sense. So, it hinges on the definition of animals then, does it??
Somewhat. I'm sure some vegans would be far more scientific about it than others (as with people of all diets). I'm a vegetarian but from my understanding is that veganism goes further which to avoid exploitation of animals and the associated pain and suffering. From memory I think it originally grew out of the fact that dairy became passable as vegetarian.

Fowl, fish are excluded.
No. They are included. They are animals.

If it were, it would make more sense to me.
The ethicist Peter Singer's book The Ethics of What We Eat is a good read if you're after something to explain the difference between an omnivorous diet, a vegetarian diet, and a vegan diet and their respective impacts on animals and the environment.