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View Full Version : 4 arrested in a plot to Bomb NYC Temple


macfan881
May 20, 2009, 09:27 PM
i just saw this on CNN kinda scarry but apprently the FBI just stoped a Attack on a NYC Temple from what i saw on CNN they said that this plan was basicly set to go ahead but the FBI Came in

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_TEMPLE_PLOT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2009-05-20-21-39-33

leekohler
May 20, 2009, 10:01 PM
They stopped it. Thank god. Unlike the Bush administration.

obeygiant
May 20, 2009, 10:23 PM
They stopped it. Thank god. Unlike the Bush administration.

LOL. :rolleyes:

Another success for the Partiot Act! Weeeeee!

mactastic
May 20, 2009, 10:49 PM
Huh... Police work stopped a terrorist attack. I would have thought we would need to go to war with someone to do that.

It'll be interesting to see if this was homegrown, or foreign terrorism. Based on the names of those arrested, it sounds like at least a partial domestic component -- but of course that is certainly not an accurate prediction method.

Peace
May 20, 2009, 10:58 PM
Sounds more to me like the FBI goaded some idiots into becoming fall guys for some good old fashioned fear tactic PR.

"The four men, identified as James Cromitie, David Williams, Onta Williams and Laguerre Payen, were arrested after buying an inactive missile and inert explosives in a sting operation run by the FBI and other agencies, the complaint said."

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE54K0K620090521

mactastic
May 20, 2009, 11:19 PM
Sounds more to me like the FBI goaded some idiots into becoming fall guys for some good old fashioned fear tactic PR.

"The four men, identified as James Cromitie, David Williams, Onta Williams and Laguerre Payen, were arrested after buying an inactive missile and inert explosives in a sting operation run by the FBI and other agencies, the complaint said."

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE54K0K620090521
Quite possible. We'll see how much of this was the suspects' idea and how much was the FBI informant saying "well, if you REALLY want to do something, I know where you can get some explosives and missiles". There's a fine line between legitimate police work, and entrapment sometimes; and it certainly wouldn't be the first time the FBI had crossed that line.

Zombie Acorn
May 20, 2009, 11:29 PM
Obama better be giving the people involved a raise.

Shivetya
May 21, 2009, 06:04 AM
Obama better be giving the people involved a raise.

For doing their job?

Shivetya
May 21, 2009, 06:06 AM
They stopped it. Thank god. Unlike the Bush administration.

Tell me all the failures to prevent attacks by Bush and Co? Oh, 9/11. Yippee. Seems that we had the chance to get rid of the protagonist in that long before but passed. Perhaps Bush should not have bombed the aspirin factory... oops wasn't him...

Whatever, I guess we can blame Bush for every thing that goes wrong for Obama's four years in office as well...

yg17
May 21, 2009, 06:40 AM
Sounds more to me like the FBI goaded some idiots into becoming fall guys for some good old fashioned fear tactic PR.

"The four men, identified as James Cromitie, David Williams, Onta Williams and Laguerre Payen, were arrested after buying an inactive missile and inert explosives in a sting operation run by the FBI and other agencies, the complaint said."

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE54K0K620090521

So in other words, they stopped a terrorist attack without illegal wiretapping, waterboarding or other violations of constitutional rights.

mactastic
May 21, 2009, 09:21 AM
Tell me all the failures to prevent attacks by Bush and Co? Oh, 9/11. Yippee. Seems that we had the chance to get rid of the protagonist in that long before but passed. Perhaps Bush should not have bombed the aspirin factory... oops wasn't him...

Whatever, I guess we can blame Bush for every thing that goes wrong for Obama's four years in office as well...
You're right, we probably shouldn't blame ex-presidents -- except that you then turn right around and make yourself out to be a hypocrite by attempting to blame Bill Clinton for not getting bin Laden.

Nice try though! Points for effort. :p

Zombie Acorn
May 21, 2009, 09:30 AM
For doing their job?

For not having to listen to Cheney say "I told you so".

Peace
May 21, 2009, 10:21 AM
So in other words, they stopped a terrorist attack without illegal wiretapping, waterboarding or other violations of constitutional rights.


Time will decide if that is the case. But from what I read it sounds like they stopped 4 idiots from doing something the FBI was trying to get them to do.

Whether or not they would have actually done this without the help of the FBI ( they did use a sting operation ) is for the courts to decide.

These guys were not native extremist muslims. They were whack job Americans.

I don't care who the President is. The FBI has a long history of making things up.



Here's a part of the complaint that caught my eye : "CW" is the confidential witness.

Gelfin
May 21, 2009, 10:51 AM
So long as it does not turn out there was incitement or entrapment involved (as Peace fears, and not without some justification), it is good to see these incidents being handled properly, via lawful investigation and arrest.

I notice in particular there is no mention of PATRIOT Act powers being necessary for these arrests. Since the FBI is generally hugely in favor of a freer hand, one would expect a friendly reminder of how much better off we are without certain Constitutional protections. I find it conspicuous by its absence, and thus a little encouraging.

The NY field office is acutely keen on publicizing this because, had they not allowed intra-agency politics to become more important than an investigation of exactly this nature ten years ago, 9/11 would never have happened. They've got a lot to prove.

Peace
May 21, 2009, 12:47 PM
More interesting info from bloomberg news :

"May 21 (Bloomberg) -- The four men arrested last night on allegations they plotted to bomb New York City synagogues and shoot down military planes were homegrown criminals with no connections to global terror groups, officials said today.

The suspects knew each other through “prison -- prison contacts for the most part,” New York City Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said in a televised press conference in the Bronx.

The main suspect, James Cromitie, 53, has been arrested as many as 27 times in New York City and upstate, and the others all had criminal records, had spent time in prison and had “varying levels of charges” against them, Kelly said.

“If there can be any good news from this terror scare, it’s that this group was relatively unsophisticated, infiltrated early and not connected to another terrorist group,” New York Senator Charles Schumer, a Democrat, said in a statement."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aj43cfOgpp_A&refer=home

mactastic
May 21, 2009, 01:33 PM
More interesting info from bloomberg news :

"May 21 (Bloomberg) -- The four men arrested last night on allegations they plotted to bomb New York City synagogues and shoot down military planes were homegrown criminals with no connections to global terror groups, officials said today.

The suspects knew each other through “prison -- prison contacts for the most part,” New York City Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said in a televised press conference in the Bronx.

The main suspect, James Cromitie, 53, has been arrested as many as 27 times in New York City and upstate, and the others all had criminal records, had spent time in prison and had “varying levels of charges” against them, Kelly said.

“If there can be any good news from this terror scare, it’s that this group was relatively unsophisticated, infiltrated early and not connected to another terrorist group,” New York Senator Charles Schumer, a Democrat, said in a statement."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aj43cfOgpp_A&refer=home
Yeah, you've really got to wonder if these guys would ever have embarked on anything this ambitions if they hadn't had an informant goading them along the whole way. And from the sounds of it, an informant who owed the government a favor.

thunderweb
May 21, 2009, 01:35 PM
Some people are just really stupid.

Peace
May 21, 2009, 01:48 PM
Yeah, you've really got to wonder if these guys would ever have embarked on anything this ambitions if they hadn't had an informant goading them along the whole way. And from the sounds of it, an informant who owed the government a favor.


I know from personal experience ( the DEA ) that this sort of thing happens. I was set up once and the "confidential reliable source" was deemed not worthy of being one after the judge learned how the DEA was using his prior rap sheet to do what he did.

I am very leary of such actions.

Zombie Acorn
May 21, 2009, 01:54 PM
Yeah, you've really got to wonder if these guys would ever have embarked on anything this ambitions if they hadn't had an informant goading them along the whole way. And from the sounds of it, an informant who owed the government a favor.

Id also have to wonder if people who can be goaded into blowing up a building are fit for society. This isn't really like trying to get someone to buy drugs or sex to me.

Peace
May 21, 2009, 02:56 PM
Id also have to wonder if people who can be goaded into blowing up a building are fit for society. This isn't really like trying to get someone to buy drugs or sex to me.

I agree with that. These people were Timothy McVay wannabe's. And that's all. Not terrorist. No terrorism alert needed. Just you run of the mill whack jobs.

mactastic
May 21, 2009, 05:26 PM
Id also have to wonder if people who can be goaded into blowing up a building are fit for society. This isn't really like trying to get someone to buy drugs or sex to me.
Once again, crime isn't a zero-sum game. It is entirely possible that both parties could be guilty of violations of the law here. Obviously no one was forcing these guys to plant inert devices in cars, so that looks like there was intent to commit a pretty bad crime here.

At the same time, it is also possible that the FBI went too far in recruiting and utilizing an informant to get people to do something that they would not have done had the FBI and the informant left them alone. It certainly would not be the first time.

There are laws against entrapment for a reason, you know...

Bill Gates
May 21, 2009, 10:35 PM
Why do people keep trying to politicize this? (in this thread) I'm just thankful that these idiots were stopped before they actually had a chance to carry out their attack. Three of them are US citizens as well, yet seem to have no empathy for their fellow Americans. What have the Jews ever done to these men? This type of radical Islam is a threat to each and every one of us. The only saving grace is that the Jews were the 2nd choice, since this group of fine men would rather have attacked the WTC themselves. And since when is a plot to attack a synagogue not terrorism? Just because we've only defined such acts as such recently does not mean that all past plots were not.

Peace
May 22, 2009, 02:01 AM
This story is being politicized simply because it is politically motivated. Some now question whether or not these 4 ( one of whom is taking medication for Bipolar disorder ) crazies could have even pulled it off without the informant egging them on.

From the Washington Post :

"NEW YORK, May 21 -- For the past two years, people at the small mosque in Newburgh, N.Y., were suspicious that a government informant was in their midst. The man talked about violent jihad, took people to lunch to push his beliefs and even offered some money. Salahuddin Muhammad, the imam of the mosque, said he warned people away.

But four members were apparently taken in, either by him or someone else, and were arrested about 9 p.m. Wednesday in the Bronx as they planted what they thought were bombs in the heavily Jewish neighborhood of Riverdale."

---------

"You have to be skeptical," Habif-Afres said. "I was also questioning if the police informant didn't provide bombs, would these people have been able to get bombs?"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/21/AR2009052100424_2.html?wprss=rss_print/asection

-----------------

"At a later hearing, the fourth suspect, Laguerre Payen, also was remanded without bail. Payen received medical treatment for injuries he suffered during the arrest and had a bandage over one eye at his hearing. Payen's lawyer said her client had a history of mental instability, but Snyder, the prosecutor, said videotapes of the suspects showed Payen to be a coherent and willing participant.

Payen told the judge he has prescriptions for the drugs Celexa and Seroquel. Celexa is used to treat depression and Seroquel is used to treat conditions including bipolar disorder."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/21/ny.bomb.plot/index.html

solvs
May 22, 2009, 03:23 AM
Tell me all the failures to prevent attacks by Bush and Co? Oh, 9/11. Yippee. Seems that we had the chance to get rid of the protagonist in that long before but passed. Perhaps Bush should not have bombed the aspirin factory... oops wasn't him...
First of all, yeah, 9/11. Are you trying to minimize it, because that seems counter intuitive to what you guys have been pushing. Besides, "Bin Laden Determined To Attack The US". Something that Clinton guy's people left for the next Pres, with a bunch of other similar things Bush waited until after his vacation and it actually happened to do something. Which, by checking how things are still going now, didn't seem to be that good of a something. Funny that you seem to be criticizing Clinton for not doing more (though I agree about the aspirin factory, that was in Iraq, who we were keeping under some control, and look at what Bush has done there since... just check with them how they feel about us, as bad as Saddam was, they actually prefer him to us at this point) even though it was the GOP led Congress who stopped him from doing more, claiming he was "wagging the dog".

And again, this was pre-9/11. We actually did then what we did here and used actual police work, actually going after those responsible and prosecuting them for the earlier bombings. But where is that Bin Laden guy after all if that's where you're going? Clinton was terrible for not going after him pre-9/11, but Bush was ok for not going after him after? Then waging a war against another country that had nothing to do with it, taking resources away from where our real fight was? :confused:

Should I even start with how everything (including Bush's own military commissions) says thanks to Bush's policies we are actually LESS safe?

Whatever, I guess we can blame Bush for every thing that goes wrong for Obama's four years in office as well...
Only the stuff that's his fault. Which is a lot of it. As you pointed out, a President doesn't just come into office free and clean of any problems in the past. They come in with held over baggage. Bush had some good he seemed to take credit for most of (and blew away, like America's good will, a budget deficit, I could go on) and some bad he could have done something about, but chose instead to blame everyone else, as you did. Bush was handed a few problems, and made everything worse. Obama was handed a broken world. We'll see what he does with it, but why do I suspect even if fixes half of our problems, it still won't be good enough for you?

Whatever, I guess we can still blame Clinton for everything that went wrong during Bush's term, but even the stuff that happened before Obama was even in office is all his fault right, because we can't look back?