MacBook and 64 bit processing (was: Questions (cont))

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

- i thought leopard osx was 64bit - so why are there some threads questioning if the current macbooks will support 64bit?

- in snow leopard the max amount of ram will be increased. is there any firmware that apple can release to increase the amount of ram that can be recognized in the macbooks?

- does anyone know why Adobe DOESN'T release a 64 bit version of their products?

[Stetrain]

- in snow leopard the max amount of ram will be increased. is there any firmware that apple can release to increase the amount of ram that can be recognized in the macbooks?


I'm pretty sure that the RAM limits in all of Apple's current computers is due to the Intel chipset configuration, not software.

And regarding Adobe, the Adobe software suite is HUGE and making any sweeping structural changes is probably a daunting task. I'm pretty sure that to use 64-bit they will have to move everything to Cocoa frameworks instead of Carbon, and that might take a while.

[pellets007]

- in snow leopard the max amount of ram will be increased. is there any firmware that apple can release to increase the amount of ram that can be recognized in the macbooks?Maybe, but I think it's the hardware that's the limiting factor. Even then, they want to maintain their higher end models with more RAM.

- does anyone know why Adobe DOESN'T release a 64 bit version of their products?Same reason they don't make good flash for Mac; they're lazy. :p

[spinnerlys]

....

- i thought leopard osx was 64bit - so why are there some threads questioning if the current macbooks will support 64bit?

.....

- does anyone know why Adobe DOESN'T release a 64 bit version of their products?

Adobe uses Carbon as API (application programming interface) for most of their Mac OS X products.
As Carbon is not compatible with Mac OS X's 64-bit interface, Adobe has to reprogram their software with another API called Cocoa.

As you might think, Adobe's applications are quite big, so it will take some time.
It is rumored that with CS 5, Adobe's programs will be 64-bit, except Lightroom, which is already 64-bit.


As for the questions about current MBs: it's just ignorance and fear, and improper research.

All Core2Duo CPUs in the Intel Macs support 64-bit, so a lot of machines will have the ability to run 64-bit software.

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

i am starting to wonder if i should just save my cash for the mbp soley on the ability to go beyond 4gig ram installation for snow leopard...sigh... :confused:

[pellets007]

i am starting to wonder if i should just save my cash for the mbp soley on the ability to go beyond 4gig ram installation for snow leopard...sigh... :confused:Why? You have to go big of go home (with the MacBook). 4GB is the maximum less you want 8GB, which is only in the 17in. 4GB is perfectly acceptable in notebooks. Why do you need for than 4GB?

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

Why? You have to go big of go home (with the MacBook). 4GB is the maximum less you want 8GB, which is only in the 17in. 4GB is perfectly acceptable in notebooks. Why do you need for than 4GB?

i am a power user and can't stand having only a few windows open and already witness sluggish behavior. when i am working on adobe programs, with some video editing in the background and 8-12 internet pages up, itunes in the background and etc. if the macbook can do all this without breaking a sweat then i guess i'll be ok.

[Richard1028]

when i am working on adobe programs, with some video editing in the background and 8-12 internet pages up, itunes in the background and etc.Man, you might consider just getting a cheapy macbook to surf the net while your videos are rendering on your main unit.

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

Man, you might consider just getting a cheapy macbook to surf the net while your videos are rendering on your main unit.

sorry, but your reponse isn't helpful or informative. i have a desktop. that is not my concern. again, not trying to be rude - but, i am seeking a direct answer.

can anyone from the previous thread answer this question please?

[spinnerlys]

i am a power user and can't stand having only a few windows open and already witness sluggish behavior. when i am working on adobe programs, with some video editing in the background and 8-12 internet pages up, itunes in the background and etc. if the macbook can do all this without breaking a sweat then i guess i'll be ok.

I had a white MacBook (C2D, 2.4GHZ and 4GB RAM), and it performed quite well with some browser tabs/windows open, Photoshop and Lightroom running at the same time, with a big PSD open in PS, iTunes in the background, VLC, System Preferences, Activity Monitor, Disk Utility, one or two TextEdit windows, and maybe some other software running all at the same time.
To improve speeds you could consider upgrading your HDD to 7.200RPM, instead of the standard 5.400RPM.

Now I have an MBP with 4GB RAM and a 7.200 RPM HDD, and in the last few weeks, I ran DVD Studio Pro, Avid Media Composer and Photoshop at the same time, while Safari was open with several tabs, and Activity Monitor, Disk Utility, System Preferences, iTunes and some other software was also running.

Sometimes it was sluggish, but what can you expect from a laptop when you handle files from 2MB to 1.3GB at the same time.

You can also just learn to be patient sometimes, I mean, what are a few seconds?

It depends what you mean by "video editing", is it editing lots and lots of compressed/uncompressed HD/SD footage, or a clip for youtube, or something in between?

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

I had a white MacBook (C2D, 2.4GHZ and 4GB RAM), and it performed quite well with some browser tabs/windows open, Photoshop and Lightroom running at the same time, with a big PSD open in PS, iTunes in the background, VLC, System Preferences, Activity Monitor, Disk Utility, one or two TextEdit windows, and maybe some other software running all at the same time.
To improve speeds you could consider upgrading your HDD to 7.200RPM, instead of the standard 5.400RPM.

Now I have an MBP with 4GB RAM and a 7.200 RPM HDD, and in the last few weeks, I ran DVD Studio Pro, Avid Media Composer and Photoshop at the same time, while Safari was open with several tabs, and Activity Monitor, Disk Utility, System Preferences, iTunes and some other software was also running.

Sometimes it was sluggish, but what can you expect from a laptop when you handle files from 2MB to 1.3GB at the same time.

You can also just learn to be patient sometimes, I mean, what are a few seconds?

It depends what you mean by "video editing", is it editing lots and lots of compressed/uncompressed HD/SD footage, or a clip for youtube, or something in between?

More or less a little of both sides of the spectrum for video editing. I guess I'll make the question simplier - is it more than capable of meeting my needs without having to go the MBP route. Because the current MB vs MBP isn't much of a gap vs the previous generation.

[aristobrat]

More or less a little of both sides of the spectrum for video editing. I guess I'll make the question simplier - is it more than capable of meeting my needs without having to go the MBP route. Because the current MB vs MBP isn't much of a gap vs the previous generation.
IMO, the wildcard in your "I'm a poweruser and I don't want my system to slow down when I have 20 apps open" is the video editing piece.

IMO, with 4GB of RAM, a MacBook can handle having those gazillions of programs open at the same time.

However, if your video editing is going to involve converting GBs of data (i.e. reading, converting, and then writing back out), the disk may be the bottleneck, not the amount of RAM you have. Whereas if you're doing a lot of rendering, then the CPU is going to be the limiting factor.

Like you said, there aren't a huge amount of differences between the MB and MBP. If you're going to go the MB route, you're probably best served with the 2.4ghz model if you plan on doing lots of effects on your video editing.

[spinnerlys]

More or less a little of both sides of the spectrum for video editing. I guess I'll make the question simplier - is it more than capable of meeting my needs without having to go the MBP route. Because the current MB vs MBP isn't much of a gap vs the previous generation.

Sorry, must be still some hungover or so, but what are your exact needs and is the question?

As far as I can gather, you edit video on both sides of the spectrum (the one I presented? - YouTube and uncompressed HD) and want to have a mobile solution, that doesn't slow down when handling such tasks.

As far as I can remember from previous threads in the Digital Video subforum, the MacBook is quite up to the task, but you may experience some sluggish behaviour when editing HD footage, due to the missing dedicated graphics card and slower USB port for external storage. The white MB has at least a FW400 port for a continuous data stream of up to 35MB/s.

And btw, it also depends on the video editing software.

For example, Avid can handle transparencies (video over video, or black bars without rendering) much better on an iBook G4, than FCP on a current Mac Pro, which still needs to render custom black bars on top of a video.

I don't know about Adobe video editing software, as Premiere 6.5 and 7.5 are the last I used to edit.

[pellets007]

i am a power user and can't stand having only a few windows open and already witness sluggish behavior. when i am working on adobe programs, with some video editing in the background and 8-12 internet pages up, itunes in the background and etc. if the macbook can do all this without breaking a sweat then i guess i'll be ok.No, what I'm saying is that there is little reason to pay an $3,000-$4,000 more just to have access to 8GB of RAM; the 15" Pros can't handle 8GB so I hear. If you don't want this sluggish performance I would strongly suggest getting a desktop alongside a MacBook. Because as it sounds, the dual core is going to be an extreme bottleneck to your performance.

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

i was reading up on the dell studio xps 13 which has the hybrid graphic system...and it was making me wish apple would do something like that for the macbook line...:( as much as people dog on dell - they do a lot right...especially recently.

i have been reading a lot and watching videos on leopard and it seems like a solid os. one of my airman have down below my room has a white macbook that i mess with from time to time and i do enjoy it. still feels foreign - which is to be expected. i have a friend that is sending me a copy of windows xp so i can bootcamp it for gaming and other windows apps that may be unusable on mac osx.

i am selling my dell xps 1530 this weekend and i'll be laptopless for a little while. still debating if i'll just go to the aafes store (no tax) and just say to hell with it and buy the 2.4 macbook or wait till wwdc because the only rumors that i am of slight interest is a possible price drop and incorporating the current unibody macbooks as part of the macbook pro family lineup. :confused:

[pellets007]

i was reading up on the dell studio xps 13 which has the hybrid graphic system...and it was making me wish apple would do something like that for the macbook line...:( as much as people dog on dell - they do a lot right...especially recently.Yeah, it is a shame that hybrid SLI is only for the MacBook Pros. Spending an extra $400 doesn't seem to justify it.


i am selling my dell xps 1530 this weekend and i'll be laptopless for a little while. still debating if i'll just go to the aafes store (no tax) and just say to hell with it and buy the 2.4 macbook or wait till wwdc because the only rumors that i am of slight interest is a possible price drop and incorporating the current unibody macbooks as part of the macbook pro family lineup. :confused:Yeah, I wish AAFES sold Macs where I live, it would have been great. But Apple does offer a military discount, so you might be enticed by that.

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

Yeah, it is a shame that hybrid SLI is only for the MacBook Pros. Spending an extra $400 doesn't seem to justify it.

Yeah, I wish AAFES sold Macs where I live, it would have been great. But Apple does offer a military discount, so you might be enticed by that.

i am currently deployed in germany and the most realistic way for me to purchase is to go to aafes vs an apple store simply because of euro and travel. if i ordered one it would take too long to arrive due to security measures when mail arrives to the military stations...

i am still a bit hesitant to wait for wwdc though... i know the average time frame for the macbook refresh is long over due though right?

[pellets007]

Eh, not long overdue. But we could see one as early as next month, yes. Latest should be October, in my opinion.

[spinnerlys]

i am currently deployed in germany and the most realistic way for me to purchase is to go to aafes vs an apple store simply because of euro and travel. if i ordered one it would take too long to arrive due to security measures when mail arrives to the military stations...

i am still a bit hesitant to wait for wwdc though... i know the average time frame for the macbook refresh is long over due though right?

You can look at Buyer's Guide (http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/) for a statistic view on updates of Apple hardware.

Also nothing big (hardware related) is expected at the WWDC for the MBs and MBPs, maybe a slight speed update.

A major update is expected in late 2009/early 2010, when Intel releases mobile Quad Core CPUs to Apple's liking.

I don't know about military discounts for Apple products, but what about a german reseller like Gravis (http://webstore.gravis.de/Liste.aspx?srb=PRICE&st=asc&rpp=40&path=apple_rechner%2fmobile%2f)?

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

what would be the most logical of updates since the lineup recently went through a massive hardware change? just a speed bump?

You can look at Buyer's Guide (http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/) for a statistic view on updates of Apple hardware.

Also nothing big (hardware related) is expected at the WWDC for the MBs and MBPs, maybe a slight speed update.

A major update is expected in late 2009/early 2010, when Intel releases mobile Quad Core CPUs to Apple's liking.

I don't know about military discounts for Apple products, but what about a german reseller like Gravis (http://webstore.gravis.de/Liste.aspx?srb=PRICE&st=asc&rpp=40&path=apple_rechner%2fmobile%2f)?

do you think the macbooks would really get the quad core cpu????

[dukebound85]

do you think the macbooks would really get the quad core cpu????

eventually but anytime soon id wager

[spinnerlys]

do you think the macbooks would really get the quad core cpu????

If you ask it that way, no. Maybe Apple will use the Quad Core CPUs to differentiate the MBPs from the MBs more than we might hope.
But as you already mentioned, there is this rumour about the MBP line and the MB joining it, name wise.

But there is always the credo: If you need it now, get it now. If not, wait.

And as Apple computers hold their value for some time, you can buy now, and if something better arrives, you can sell the older machine for good money without loosing too much.

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

i am not that knowledable on Apple and how it treats its hardware vs software. How relevant would the MacBook in its current state be - based on Apple history - say 2.5 yrs from now? My wife would kill me if I wanted to buy a new laptop each year...

[spinnerlys]

Now it seems to many, that the iPhone is the priority at 1 Infinity Loop.

But the MacBook is the entry model for lots and lots of students, that Apple tries to get to buy their gear, so I think, that the MacBook is with the iMac the priority on the computer side of Apple as entry models.

So I think the MB will still be around, maybe even as a Unibody, as I think, that this form will stay with us for a while (the aluminum PowerBooks and then MBPs were with us for 6 years).
Just more advanced, and maybe with Firewire again.

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

Now it seems to many, that the iPhone is the priority at 1 Infinity Loop.

But the MacBook is the entry model for lots and lots of students, that Apple tries to get to buy their gear, so I think, that the MacBook is with the iMac the priority on the computer side of Apple as entry models.

So I think the MB will still be around, maybe even as a Unibody, as I think, that this form will stay with us for a while (the aluminum PowerBooks and then MBPs were with us for 6 years).
Just more advanced, and maybe with Firewire again.

I'm not trying to be annoying or read too much into your posts spinnerlys (thank you though for responding to my questions) but, in terms of advanced in what regards?

[spinnerlys]

Advanced as in advancement of technology.

USB 3 maybe, better graphics card, better CPU, faster RAM, SSD instead of HDD, better display, better cooling, better battery.

Picture a laptop from three years ago, and look at the current line up of that model. As you may can see, it's better in technological ways.

Ah, everything will be better. Maybe even the touch screen. :D

[Eidorian]

do you think the macbooks would really get the quad core cpu????Extremely doubtful.

At best I can see 2 cores, 4 threads in the future on the Macbook.

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

Advanced as in advancement of technology.

USB 3 maybe, better graphics card, better CPU, faster RAM, SSD instead of HDD, better display, better cooling, better battery.

Picture a laptop from three years ago, and look at the current line up of that model. As you may can see, it's better in technological ways.

Ah, everything will be better. Maybe even the touch screen. :D

oh, i was simply refering to the next update...lol...

and my question was really would the macbook hold up well over the next 2 1/2 years *based on well the previous MacBooks aged*?

[spinnerlys]

oh, i was simply refering to the next update...lol...

and my question was really would the macbook hold up well over the next 2 1/2 years *based on well the previous MacBooks aged*?

Sorry. Was dreading the hour when I could go home wfrom work, and wasn't paying much attention as it seems.

I think a MacBook will hold for 2-3 years, I used a 1GHz iBook for three years for graphics and video work, until I bought an iMac in 2007.
Then I slowly discovered how slow my iBook was/is, but that may be due to different processors from IBM and Intel.

One 1GHz CPU core vs. two 2GHz CPU cores.
I don't think we will advance that fast in the next three years -
now two 2.4GHz CPU cores vs. then four 4.8GHz CPU cores, or more likely eight 2.4GHz CPU cores. But maybe we'll do....

So, I have to get away from this topic, I might risk my neck writing all this (nonsense?).

[ppc750fx]

- i thought leopard osx was 64bit - so why are there some threads questioning if the current macbooks will support 64bit?

Leopard is partially 64-bit; most of the userland is 64-bit, but the kernel (and some libraries) are not.

does anyone know why Adobe DOESN'T release a 64 bit version of their products?

Because they ignored Apple's repeated warnings that Carbon was a transitional API not intended for long-term development.

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

is it best to reformat a new macbook and do a fresh install of osx?

[Eidorian]

is it best to reformat a new macbook and do a fresh install of osx?It's nice to remove the additional languages, unneeded printer drivers, and OEM value ware bloat.

[spinnerlys]

is it best to reformat a new macbook and do a fresh install of osx?

No. When you first start the MB, you will be guided through setting up your user account, and then you can use the machine right away.

There is no junk installed on it, like on some other vendors' machines, only Mac OS X, iLife and maybe iWork.
Nothing else.

So no need to clean the system, as it is already clean.

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

It's nice to remove the additional languages, unneeded printer drivers, and OEM value ware bloat.

is there a proper way to put a fresh install of osx? do i reformat it the hd first? or is there a method on osx?

No. When you first start the MB, you will be guided through setting up your user account, and then you can use the machine right away.

There is no junk installed on it, like on some other vendors' machines, only Mac OS X, iLife and maybe iWork.
Nothing else.

So no need to clean the system, as it is already clean.

oh, then what was the guy above talking about then?

[Eidorian]

is there a proper way to put a fresh install of osx? do i reformat it the hd first? or is there a method on osx?Boot off of the OS X installer DVD 1 and do an Erase and Install of the components and bundled software that you want.

I only have English and no printer drivers. I don't install iLife beyond iPhoto.

[spinnerlys]

oh, then what was the guy above talking about then?

Languages can be removed with Monolingual (http://monolingual.sourceforge.net/), and printers can be deleted manually in the following folder: Macintosh HD > Library > Printers. It will free up 3 GB or so.

That way will not take as long as doing a fresh installation.

[Eidorian]

Languages can be removed with Monolingual (http://monolingual.sourceforge.net/), and printers can be deleted manually in the following folder: Macintosh HD > Library > Printers. It will free up 3 GB or so.

That way will not take as long as doing a fresh installation.I don't really trust Monolingual after some nonsense it put me through back in Tiger.

You're better off doing an Erase and Install. You also eliminate all the libraries that iLife installs as well.