Buying a Mac Pro Quad Core or 8 Core?

[YsoSerious]

I'm trying to decide which Mac Pro to buy using my ADC discount and if the 8 core is really worth the extra $700 and if I could upgrade to a 8 core later if I went with the quad core. My apologies to you MAC experts out there, if I have committed moral sin by mentioning such a task. As a PC migrating (however slow) to macs, PC users can upgrade CPUs with ease. If the motherboard matches the CPU socket it can work. How upgradable are these Mac Pros?

[Tallest Skil]

Easily, everything but the processor and PSU (don't try the PSU).

The processor is... almost doable, but there's really no point.

[J&JPolangin]

...go for an 8 core refurb...

[ajbrehm]

I'm trying to decide which Mac Pro to buy using my ADC discount and if the 8 core is really worth the extra $700 and if I could upgrade to a 8 core later if I went with the quad core.

You cannot really upgrade. And the hassle of trying is not worth the 700 bucks. Really.

I had the same question to answer for myself a few weeks ago. I finally decided to go with the 8-core, if only for the larger number of memory banks.

Here's the logic:

Pro: You get a second CPU.

Against: It costs more.

Pro: You get more memory banks.

Against: The second CPU is rarely ever used. (You get 16 logical CPUs because of hyperthreading and I see only 2.5 of those used fully when the computer is doing a lot.)

Pro: Those 2.5 logical CPUs are 2 real CPUs on an 8-core, not just two cores with one only connection to the memory or two hyperthreads.

Against: Memory prices will probably fall and four banks might be enough and you can replace 2 GB modules with 4 GB modules.

Pro: It is, at the end, only 700 dollars. And I knew I'd be unhappy that I missed the chance a few months later. So I bought the 8-core with 8 GB (2x4 GB) of memory.

[TonyK]

Andrew has provided pretty sound advice for buying the 8 core system. Even in the PC world, one generally buys the best they can afford. Of course we could make trade-offs which are harder to do in the OS X world. :)

Go for the 8 core unit and make sure you feed it plenty of memory. :)

[300D]

Yep, get the 2.26 8-core. In the long run it will be a much better machine.

[Chad H]

It just really depends on what you are using it for. I went with the quad for my needs. The quad core nehalem beats last year's 3.0Ghz 8 core by a little. Ive had both machines and I like the Nehalem alot better. I went with the 2.66 quad w/ 8GB of RAM. Its a great machine, really fast, and will do what I need it to do for many years to come. If you don't need the extra power then save the money and upgrade the ram and upgrade the hd. You can get a 8GB kit from OWC for about $175 now. Also if you game make sure to get the ATI card. I chose that option and was one of the best decisions I have made in awhile! :)

[ajbrehm]

If you don't need the extra power then save the money and upgrade the ram and upgrade the hd. You can get a 8GB kit from OWC for about $175 now.

You see, that's exactly the problem.

4 GB dimms are _very_ expensive, and 2 GB dimms are very cheap.

With the 4-core you get four memory slots, allowing for upgrades beyond 8 GB only for a large amount of money. With the 8-core you get eight memory slots, allowing for cheap upgrades beyond 8 GB and allowing for 8 GB with possibility to upgrade without losing existing dimms.

Saving the 700 dollars for the second CPU is not nearly enough to pay for more memory than 8 GB with only four slots.

[Chad H]

You see, that's exactly the problem.

4 GB dimms are _very_ expensive, and 2 GB dimms are very cheap.

With the 4-core you get four memory slots, allowing for upgrades beyond 8 GB only for a large amount of money. With the 8-core you get eight memory slots, allowing for cheap upgrades beyond 8 GB and allowing for 8 GB with possibility to upgrade without losing existing dimms.

Saving the 700 dollars for the second CPU is not nearly enough to pay for more memory than 8 GB with only four slots.

Yes, but that again depends on what the machine is used for. You know as well as I do 80% of the general population on Macrumors don't use 8GB.

[ajbrehm]

Yes, but that again depends on what the machine is used for. You know as well as I do 80% of the general population on Macrumors don't use 8GB.

I don't think those people are in the market for a Mac Pro anyway.

When the OP said he was buying a Mac Pro we already knew that we have a candidate for 8 GB or more RAM. So why discuss the large majority of people who have nothing to do with this?

[Roy]

You see, that's exactly the problem.

4 GB dimms are _very_ expensive, and 2 GB dimms are very cheap.

With the 4-core you get four memory slots, allowing for upgrades beyond 8 GB only for a large amount of money. With the 8-core you get eight memory slots, allowing for cheap upgrades beyond 8 GB and allowing for 8 GB with possibility to upgrade without losing existing dimms.

Saving the 700 dollars for the second CPU is not nearly enough to pay for more memory than 8 GB with only four slots.

Really? And that's down from the $750 only a few months ago.
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[Genghis Khan]

Saving the 700 dollars for the second CPU is not nearly enough to pay for more memory than 8 GB with only four slots.

Really? And that's ($579.99) down from the $750 only a few months ago.

Yes, yes it is. Paying the extra $700 gets you twice the processors as well as the ability to buy cheaper RAM.



But to the O.P.

It all really depends on what you'll be doing with the Pro. Unless you're doing movie editing or 3D rendering, you won't need dozens of cores and heaps of RAM, so you'd be better off investing in the 2.93GHz Quad.

- Michael

[Roy]

Yes, yes it is. Paying the extra $700 gets you twice the processors as well as the ability to buy cheaper RAM.

- Michael


But my response was to the fact that the $700 savings could not buy you more than 8GB of RAM. In fact, at current OWC pricing, you can get 3 X 4GB (12GB) for $579.00. Nothing to do with an extra processor.

[Thiol]

I'm trying to decide which Mac Pro to buy using my ADC discount and if the 8 core is really worth the extra $700 and if I could upgrade to a 8 core later if I went with the quad core. My apologies to you MAC experts out there, if I have committed moral sin by mentioning such a task. As a PC migrating (however slow) to macs, PC users can upgrade CPUs with ease. If the motherboard matches the CPU socket it can work. How upgradable are these Mac Pros?

I don't know if this applies to the Nehalem Mac Pros, but we've discussed this a lot with the Penryn late 2008 version. It's difficult to add another processor because you need a specific heat sink that can't be bought easily. You have to get it from eBay or an Apple source...

[ajbrehm]

But my response was to the fact that the $700 savings could not buy you more than 8GB of RAM. In fact, at current OWC pricing, you can get 3 X 4GB (12GB) for $579.00. Nothing to do with an extra processor.

How would you do this?

You cannot mix those dimms with the one Apple put in. So I guess you would have to buy the 3 GB model from Apple, remove the 3 GB and add the 12 GB for 600 dollars (including shipping etc.).

And that leaves you with a machine that can be upgraded only once more to 16 GB (or, technically, to 14 GB as well).

Not that their prices are not good, but I don't see it as a compelling reason not to get the octocore Mac.

[Keniff]

Just buy what you can afford...

[Roy]

How would you do this?

You cannot mix those dimms with the one Apple put in. So I guess you would have to buy the 3 GB model from Apple, remove the 3 GB and add the 12 GB for 600 dollars (including shipping etc.).

And that leaves you with a machine that can be upgraded only once more to 16 GB (or, technically, to 14 GB as well).

Not that their prices are not good, but I don't see it as a compelling reason not to get the octocore Mac.

I was not replying to you on "a compelling reason not to get an octocore". As I've tried to explain and did show you that your statement about the cost of ram compared to savings on the processor were not accurate:

You said: Saving the 700 dollars for the second CPU is not nearly enough to pay for more memory than 8 GB with only four slots.

[zmttoxics]

If you have to ask, the answer is almost always no.

Just get one that fits your budget, they are all stupidly fast.

[ajbrehm]

I was not replying to you on "a compelling reason not to get an octocore". As I've tried to explain and did show you that your statement about the cost of ram compared to savings on the processor were not accurate:

You said: Saving the 700 dollars for the second CPU is not nearly enough to pay for more memory than 8 GB with only four slots.

Heavens.

[snouter]

I'm trying to decide which Mac Pro to buy using my ADC discount and if the 8 core is really worth the extra $700 and if I could upgrade to a 8 core later if I went with the quad core. My apologies to you MAC experts out there, if I have committed moral sin by mentioning such a task. As a PC migrating (however slow) to macs, PC users can upgrade CPUs with ease. If the motherboard matches the CPU socket it can work. How upgradable are these Mac Pros?

I would say "no way" is it worth it to try to go from 4 core to 8 core after the fact.

I'm curious to know if you can upgrade the CPU?

ie if I buy a 2.26 now, can I make it faster later? Xeons are crazy expensive, may not even want to mess with it regardless.

[Roy]

Heavens.

Don't be calling for any divine intervention to help you with your incorrect assertion. This is a worldly matter in trying to decide the best use of limited resources in purchasing a Mac Pro.:D

[Chad H]

I don't think those people are in the market for a Mac Pro anyway.

When the OP said he was buying a Mac Pro we already knew that we have a candidate for 8 GB or more RAM. So why discuss the large majority of people who have nothing to do with this? Well, you know as I do. That sometimes you get people that want a MP just to have one. They know its the best and have to have the best or someone that is gamer that refuses to switch to PC. In that isntance they wouldn't need more than 8GB of ram.

[Roy]

Well, you know as I do. That sometimes you get people that want a MP just to have one. They know its the best and have to have the best or someone that is gamer that refuses to switch to PC. In that isntance they wouldn't need more than 8GB of ram.

And I have several friends who have Mac Pros and none of them, just like me, are professionals who make a living using a Mac Pro. I personally don't know anyone who uses a Mac Pro to make a living. There are good reasons to have a Mac Pro without buying one to make a living with. I know some of the elitists on this forum think that the Mac Pro should be reserved for professionals and the rest MUST buy an iMac ONLY.

[eelpout]

And I have several friends who have Mac Pros and none of them, just like me, are professionals who make a living using a Mac Pro. I personally don't know anyone who uses a Mac Pro to make a living. There are good reasons to have a Mac Pro without buying one to make a living with. I know some of the elitists on this forum think that the Mac Pro should be reserved for professionals and the rest MUST buy an iMac ONLY.

I understand the whole wanting to own the best of anything, just because. But what do you & your friends use the Pro for? Gaming? Wouldn't it be better to get the top iMac with the 4850 for that? Do you donate the always idle extra cores to the plight of Somalian children or something? ;)

[Roy]

I understand the whole wanting to own the best of anything, just because. But what do you & your friends use the Pro for? Gaming? Wouldn't it be better to get the top iMac with the 4850 for that? Do you donate the always idle extra cores to the plight of Somalian children or something? ;)

See, there you go with your elitist attitude. Tell me what kind of vehicle you drive and I'll tell you what you need to be driving. Then you can donate your extra idle money to the Somalian children. BTW: how much are you donating to the Somalian children currently. I'll be you couldn't give a fat rat's behind about the Somalian children.

[snouter]

Mac Pros are too expensive to just have as regular computer unless you make money with them or are just a rich kid... nothing wrong with being a richie rich, but most people don't have $6000 internet computers that also kinda suck at Crysis

[Roy]

Mac Pros are too expensive to just have as regular computer unless you make money with them or are just a rich kid... nothing wrong with being a richie rich, but most people don't have $6000 internet computers that also kinda suck at Crysis

Just an opinion with no basis in fact.

So only rich kids or people who make money with a car should buy anything more expensive than a subcompact Kia? Same logic.

I'm beginning to understand why Windows people can't stand Mac people.

[snouter]

Just an opinion with no basis in fact.

My opinion is that you are overly defensive about this for some reason...

buy what you want, it's yours (or your parents) money...

"Most" people do not buy $6000 computers for suring the internet and learning 3d with a Maya crack.

Feel free to your own research and make up your own facts, but I think you will find that the $6000 computer market is very small.

[Roy]

My opinion is that you are overly defensive about this for some reason...

buy what you want, it's yours (or your parents) money...

"Most" people do not buy $6000 computers for suring the internet and learning 3d with a Maya crack.

Feel free to your own research and make up your own facts, but I think you will find that the $6000 computer market is very small.

I've been a Mac person for almost 25 years, but I get tired of defending Mac people who have the elitist attitude that they know what is best for other people based upon their own personal bias.

Absolutely a good answer. (you could have put in also your children's inheritance .)

I agree. It's small, just like the market is for Mac's.

[Cindori]

I second Roy.

I have done nothing with my Mac Pro besides surfing, gaming, writing documents...


But I feel satisfied with the fact that I have a computer running native Mac OSX that is able to handle any game or application I throw at it, and has performance that will last very long. Plus it is upgradeable.

If you have the money, go for it. Who are other people to judge?

[snouter]

I agree. It's small, just like the market is for Mac's.

So imagine how small the $6000 segment of the small Apple segment is? Now we are getting elite about it.

[Roy]

So imagine how small the $6000 segment of the small Apple segment is? Now we are getting elite about it.

Nothing elitist about the $6000 club. It's the attitude of those who are not in the club and who play the elitist attitude that THEY know what is BEST and what to buy for those in the $6000 club. Price example below:

Mac Pros are too expensive to just have as regular computer unless you make money with them or are just a rich kid... nothing wrong with being a richie rich, but most people don't have $6000 internet computers that also kinda suck at Crysis

[Shiner]

Nothing elitist about the $6000 club. It's the attitude of those who are not in the club and who play the elitist attitude that THEY know what is BEST and what to buy for those in the $6000 club. Price example below:

It is ok to be a mac elitist. Anyone that purchased all that mac hardware you have has to be a mac elitist.

[Roy]

It is ok to be a mac elitist. Anyone that purchased all that mac hardware you have has to be a mac elitist.

I'm an elitist because I didn't purchase an iMac, because I'm not a professional, because I'm a rich kid? I'm not a professional, not a rich kid, and I didn't purchase an iMac. But it's my money, my family is well taken care of, and I like to make my own decisions about my choices on how I spend my money.

My intent, for a long time, was to buy an octocore, but the more I read the more I decided that the octo was not what I wanted after all. (Note: I used "wanted", not "needed". Food, clothing, shelter are needs. No one "needs" a computer). MacWorld magazine's review of the current Mac Pros clinched it for me. The $700 was not an issue. And it really wasn't $700 because more memory was included in the $700.

Maybe I like stimulating the economy to help save your job and to save a small fruit company that only has between 5 and 7 percent of the market.

[TheStrudel]

You cannot mix those dimms with the one Apple put in.

Actually, you can. But you will take a speed hit for doing so. Then again, most users won't notice it because hard drives are always the speed bump, and few people are maxing that out.

Second, if you are using anything that is core scalable, those 16 logical cores have use. Compressor will snag everything, so us video types love being able to compress things in a fraction the time. And if you're into it, the spare cores could be used on Folding@home. Now, while that isn't quite solving the plight of somalian children, it is putting computational power to work on medical research that could speed the discovery of new disease cures. Maybe a stretch, but it's something that the cores could be used for.

The "Who's going to buy a $6,000 computer" argument is a little grating to those of us who edit video. Time is money, speed saves time, therefore that $6,000 computer has real applications for people who use their computer to ply a trade. Even if it's a business you run on the side, as I do, you make money by having a faster computer because time you can spend shooting and working on jobs rather than waiting on your computer is time you can use to make more money. Or go on hikes.

[snouter]

Maybe I wanted to impress my friends?

I know, we've all been there... :D

chill out, nobody was ever judging you but at least you were easy to read...

Mac Pros are too expensive to just have as regular computer unless you make money with them or are just a rich kid...

:) So, I was right?

[Roy]

I know, we've all been there... :D

chill out, nobody was ever judging you but at least you were easy to read...



:) So, I was right?

Thanks, I appreciate the comment.

Mac Pros are for anyone who wants to spend the money to buy one. There is no requirement that you have to make money with them or be a rich kid.

[DeepCobalt]

I fully agree. Buy whatever computer makes you happy. You only live once, and if you decide you want to "drive" a Mac Pro, who is to say you shouldn't??? Go for it, and enjoy the power!

Even though I do use mine for work, I think it is ridiculous that some people criticize enthusiasts that enjoy the great experience of owning a superior piece of computing machinery.

[seisend]

Well, I think Roy has there good points.

I am music student. Bought a MacBook Pro (first Mac) in 2007 for music production with Logic 8. Well, I got better and better with my technical music knowledge, so my quality of the music grown up with that and I need now much more CPU performance.iMac is a no-go for me, don't want to explain now why ;-) . I want since a year a Mac Pro. So I am getting with my part time job around 800-900 Dollars a month and I try to live as cheap as I can so that I can get this monster. This July, I want to get a Mac Pro with 2.26 8 Core. I think the Quad would go perfect, but I also think for the future the 8 Core is a better investment (my thoughts and feelings). I want to invest that much money, because I am sure I will can use this mac for a lot of years for music production. And I think, a VERY BIG nice thing about this beast is that everything is running so fast and smooth. You don't need to wait if you load a small programm. It just pops up. On a iMac or MacBook Pro, you'll need to wait 1-4 Seconds. I know its not much in the time of human life, but I it feels so good, that everything is working so smooth and fast and this is so much fun. Even if you don't need the full Power, you notice automatically that everything runs much faster. Also I spend a few hours everyday on the mac so I think it is a good investment. If Quad or Octo, everyone need to decide on his own.

[numbersyx]

[QUOTE=Roy;7672182]I'm an elitist because I didn't purchase an iMac, because I'm not a professional, because I'm a rich kid? I'm not a professional, not a rich kid, and I didn't purchase an iMac. But it's my money, my family is well taken care of, and I like to make my own decisions about my choices on how I spend my money.

My intent, for a long time, was to buy an octocore, but the more I read the more I decided that the octo was not what I wanted after all. (Note: I used "wanted", not "needed". Food, clothing, shelter are needs. No one "needs" a computer). MacWorld magazine's review of the current Mac Pros clinched it for me. The $700 was not an issue. And it really wasn't $700 because more memory was included in the $700.

What made you decide Quad over Octo?

[Roy]

[quote=Roy;7672182]I'm an elitist because I didn't purchase an iMac, because I'm not a professional, because I'm a rich kid? I'm not a professional, not a rich kid, and I didn't purchase an iMac. But it's my money, my family is well taken care of, and I like to make my own decisions about my choices on how I spend my money.

My intent, for a long time, was to buy an octocore, but the more I read the more I decided that the octo was not what I wanted after all. (Note: I used "wanted", not "needed". Food, clothing, shelter are needs. No one "needs" a computer). MacWorld magazine's review of the current Mac Pros clinched it for me. The $700 was not an issue. And it really wasn't $700 because more memory was included in the $700.

What made you decide Quad over Octo?

Remember that I'm not a "professional computer person": meaning that I don't make my living by using a computer and the products I produce from that computer are not my main source of livelihood. I just like nice toys and I can "fix" a Mac (OS X) if I need to, but Windows is too much work to keep going strong without a good bit of work. (At least that has been my experience based upon my Windows workplace and my son needed a Windows machine for his computer ?? degree.)

I don't believe that I will ever buy any of the high end programs that take advantage of the multiple cores. And if and when main stream programs are being sold that take advantage of multiple cores, then I will have been ready for another computer long before that. I also don't do enough family and friends movies to benefit from the extra cores.

I started last night converting my old VHS tape to digital and even doing the conversions my Activity Monitor didn't show my CPU was maxing out. And even when I'm recording, converting, and etc. I can still up my Mac Pro to do other things.

And BTW, I had read so much about how you had to buy this, and you had to have this piece of equipment, and on and on about converting old VHS tapes to digital and at least in my experience that a bunch of crap. I took my 10 old VHS player and a 16 year old tape and had no problems. Hooked the VHS player to my 8 or 9 year old camcorder, hooked my camcorder up to my Mac Pro, opened up iMovie, started the VHS tape, told iMove to Import, and that was all there was to it. No additional software, no converter box. And I had been dreading figuring out what to buy. Now I have lots of VHS tapes I need to digitize. So I've ordered another 1TB hard drive.

I have a good number of songs I've collected over the years, so I convert them back and forth between different formats for various reasons. What used to take me a couple of minutes for each song to convert, my 2009 Mac Pro did each in about 2 seconds. If I was a "Pro", then that quarter of a second different between and Octo and Quad would add up in a year's time and would be lost money. Assuming I'm working 100 percent all the time. (I guess that means the downturn in the economy has not affected computer professionals. Hard to believe, but maybe it's true.)

My Quad sits on 98 percent idle about most all of the time. Only rarely has it gotten down into the 50 percent mark. But I used to drive a Ford XL with a big block 428 C.I.D. and most of the times the horsepower was just sitting around. Perhaps waiting for the next red light to turn green to smoke the tires or doing the quarter mile at the local drag strip. But I still drove it back and forth to work each day and mostly obeyed the speed limit about 98 percent of the time.