Which console has the coolest new motion concept? [Archive]

spaceballl

Jun 2, 2009, 06:34 PM

Microsoft's is the most futuristic and probably has the most potential, but I'll have to see it in action to believe it.
It looks almost too good to be true - I really want to see this thing in action! I liked the media portion of it, where it basically shows that girls' hand acting as a remote.

Sony's is just a "me too" between the other two. It looked almost half-hearted.
Seriously? Man the precision at which that guy was able to use the bow and arrow, or place the row of dominoes... I thought that was VERY impressive. Looks really fun to me.

jaw04005

Jun 2, 2009, 06:42 PM

Seriously? Man the precision at which that guy was able to use the bow and arrow, or place the row of dominoes... I thought that was VERY impressive. Looks really fun to me.

I wasn't impressed. It required two of the colored wands and a PlayStation Eye to function. It was like they pulled it out of the basement or something. At this point, I think we've moved beyond wands.

spaceballl

Jun 2, 2009, 06:43 PM

I wasn't impressed. It required two of the colored wands and a PlayStation Eye to function. It was like they pulled it out of the basement or something. At this point, I think we've moved beyond wands.
Fair enough - to each their own. But sign me up for one!

zap2

Jun 2, 2009, 08:00 PM

The only one I see myself using is MotionPlus, since Nintendo seems to put a lot of push for it.(Red Steel 2 and Wii Sports Resort)

But give me some good Xbox 360 and PS3 games I'll use their solutions...i just questions how many games will use it(Eyetoy all over again)

2nyRiggz

Jun 2, 2009, 08:08 PM

I wasn't impressed by any of them but Sony's motion control thingy looked to incorporate it with more than just casual crap which MS is going for....MS natal thing looked like it needs more ironing out.

I'll stick to Wii when I want my "waggle on" until MS/Sony show me something that I want.

Bless

sikkinixx

Jun 2, 2009, 08:13 PM

I suppose Sorny's. Imagine Zelda with the bow/sword fighting? Yum.

Still, it looks really stupid (appearance wise) and requires THREE doohickeys to do it's things. Argh. If they had shown before MS, I think I would have been more WOW'd, but still, cool stuff indeed. If they can get it to market BEFORE MS and get some actual games by non-Sony devs... it could be cool.

It's odd they would do this so late in the cycle. I mean, in 2 E3's from now, it's PS4/720 we are hearing about.

spaceballl

Jun 2, 2009, 08:27 PM

It's odd they would do this so late in the cycle. I mean, in 2 E3's from now, it's PS4/720 we are hearing about.
I'm not sure... Of course anything could happen, but a lot of analysts are predicting this console lifespan to be much longer than the previous one was...

LethalWolfe

Jun 2, 2009, 08:58 PM

I was kinda 'meh' w/natal until I talked w/people who know more about it's development. Then I was more impressed and kinda creeped out at the same time. After Natal scans a you it will be able to tell you apart from other people/objects in the room so even if someone walks between you and the sensor the 360 won't get confused about who is who (this is also how it will be able to tell different people apart in multiplayer games). What it can also do, and this gets into the slightly creepy part, is it can associate a person w/a specific profile so in a multiuser household the 360 can scan you and load the correct profile. Personally, I'm not looking forward to the day when my console will recognize me on sight and start up an idol conversation while I'm getting around in the morning. ;)

Lethal

jaw04005

Jun 2, 2009, 09:41 PM

I just questions how many games will use it(Eyetoy all over again)

Exactly. Maybe that's why I wasn't impressed. I've been burned before with both EyeToy and PlayStation Eye. If the new multi-colored wand is as "successful" as either of those accessories, I'll pass.

Packersfan27

Jun 2, 2009, 10:38 PM

The Microsoft Natal blew me away, I was amazed that something like that brick breaker game they showed was even possible.

The Nintendo Motion-Plus is nice, but it really does not do much except make the controller more accurate (which is still great)

The Sony approach to me seemed like something in between Microsoft and Nintendo, I liked the accuracy (Epic lightsaber duels anyone? :p)

But from all 3 the Microsoft Natal Project blew me the way the most.

spyker3292

Jun 2, 2009, 10:57 PM

Natal looks sweet, but it also had some lag and didn't see too useful (no buttons!). Seemed like a gimmick. Motionplus is... ok. Sony's seems like wiimote + Microsofts camera based mocap. It also looked really accurate and responsive.

MacRumorUser

Jun 3, 2009, 06:30 AM

NATAL. Here's why for me.

Sony's still looks like a Jessica Rabbit vibrator.
Add the fact you have to have the camera as well as the penis extension in your hands, it's all too much periphery :D

Motion plus to me is simply an admittance the original wii remote concept was seriously flawed. I remain skeptical, especially after reading that RED STEEL 2 preview which uses motion control, and yet it's still meant to control identically to METROID 3 ? So what has Motion Plus added then ? Again it's yet another sodding peripheral too, which means your now holding 3 peripherals to play 1 game.

NATAL looks interesting because it takes everything out of your hands, and it's ONE peripheral not several.

It's also the one, which demoed showed the most promise in my eyes.

Dagless

Jun 3, 2009, 07:00 AM

Yawl realise everything in the Natal video that included the couch was all CG too? I guess thats what Sony and Nintendo were joking about when they talked about having it running live. I'm also concerned about how much power is needed just to run it, Motion Plus isn't going to use any additional power since it's all built into the controller and Sony's looks to be a in a similar position (except with adding the 3D models to the recorded camera image). I'm interested in how all this is going to unfold.

In terms of usability and applying it to games I think Nintendo (since it exists)>Sony>Microsoft.

MacRumorUser

Jun 3, 2009, 07:24 AM

Yawl realise everything in the Natal video that included the couch was all CG too?

The MILO Lionhead demonstration impressed me more than those jumpy around the living room videos.

As for motion plus. I just keep wanting to scream at nintendo... Just sod adding another peripheral. Release a god damn Motion Plus Wii Remote. Full stop.....

-SD-

Jun 3, 2009, 07:31 AM

I was very impressed with the Natal demo, but that was mainly due to Milo and the fact that Steven Spielberg and Peter Molyneux had just made an appearance. And that was before the $199.99 price was announced.

As it stands, the PS Eye can currently offer much of the hands-free control that Natal showed. With the correct software it could do facial recognition and can already do voice recognition. So you could have the option of logging into PSN automatically and navigating the XMB totally hands-free, which is very cool.

When it comes to the actual games however, the PS3mote gives totally accurate 1:1 tracking, whereas Natal doesn't. The idea of not having any controller sounds cool, but I don't beleive it can work. People still need to have a connection to a physical object. Consider the following two examples:

1 - Baseball/Cricket game. So you have the option of holding nothing (which will feel odd) or something to represent the bat. If you're going to be holding something anyway, surely you may as well be holding something that's going to give 1:1 accuracy. As we saw from the Sony demo, they can overlay bats, guns, golf clubs, whatever on screen.

2 - FPS. You can move 360 degrees, crouch, jump and aim but how do you propose you move your character on the x and z axes? This isn't a Star Trek Holodeck we're talking about here. So you still need some sort of controller in your hand to move your on-screen character about, may as well use that controller as the gun and have true 1:1 accuracy.

Now there are some styles of game that you could do totally hands free, but the above examples show that some games still need a tangible controller option.

:apple:

Osarkon

Jun 3, 2009, 07:56 AM

The thing I noticed with the Nintendo demo is that it didn't show much that they didn't show when they first demoed the Wii controller.

At the time it looked like you had complete freedom of movement, but then when you bought the game (e.g. Red Steel) you were actually limited to the game's controls, so no matter what you did physically, the character on screen would only do pre-programmed moves.

If it is actually complete freedom, and you're not just emulating pre-programmed slices and blocks, sign me up in a heartbeat.

The Microsoft one just blew me away. If it works as well as it seems to, I'm sold on that as well. Though what I couldn't get from one of the demos was the girl driving the car, sure she was steering, but how did it figure out if she was braking or accelerating?

jaw04005

Jun 3, 2009, 08:57 AM

Though what I couldn't get from one of the demos was the girl driving the car, sure she was steering, but how did it figure out if she was braking or accelerating?

It's supposed to be able to do full body motion. Maybe she was "air" braking with her foot kind of like I do when my I ride in the car with my teenage brother? :D

2nyRiggz

Jun 3, 2009, 08:59 AM

Yawl realise everything in the Natal video that included the couch was all CG too?

This is why I think everyone is impressed with MS natal because they sugared it up whiles Sony/N showed the raw demo without the touch up.

In my opinion I would much rather have something in my hands whiles I play...something I can feel and connect to with the game so I'm content with a wand/wiimote.

Peter Melonux(sp) always gets the crowd hype but never delivers on his bloated promises so I expect nothing less from the creepy sim called milo.

Bless

Taustin Powers

Jun 3, 2009, 09:03 AM

I'd say Sony, cause it was the most accurate and lag-free.

Forget that it looked like a dildo, the technology is what matters here, of course the final product will look different.

That said, I will probably not purchase it. I simply don't like the whole wiggly waggly trend that Nintendo started.

stainlessliquid

Jun 3, 2009, 02:06 PM

I wouldnt want to use any of them, but Natal is probably the least likely to work as a controller.

What I would be interested in though is having games use head tracking to make things appear 3d, and Natal is the only one with potential for doing that bug-free without wearing stupid headgear.

LethalWolfe

Jun 3, 2009, 02:38 PM

Though what I couldn't get from one of the demos was the girl driving the car, sure she was steering, but how did it figure out if she was braking or accelerating?
IIRC, the people who played the Natal 'version' of Burnout Paradise at E3 said they slid their foot forward/back on the ground for gas/break and made a gear shifting type gesture to kick in the boost.

Lethal

spaceballl

Jun 3, 2009, 03:30 PM

I don't understand how Natal can track depth... That's something I really don't get...

theITGuy

Jun 3, 2009, 03:57 PM

Natal looks very cool as an add-on to the existing controller technology...for example in FPS games to peek around corners...

Cheers.

-J.-

spaceballl

Jun 3, 2009, 04:00 PM

I saw someone say that MS should just build Natal into the NEXT XBOX. I pretty much agree with this...

spyker3292

Jun 3, 2009, 04:28 PM

I don't understand how Natal can track depth... That's something I really don't get...

Ya, Natal doesn't seem that impressive (tech-wise). It's just a stick with a camera and a microphone in it. I don't see two cameras, so it's practically an EyeToy with new software... But there has to be something else in that bar :P

NoSmokingBandit

Jun 3, 2009, 04:34 PM

Natal looked a bit choppy and glitchy, especially during the Mii, erm.. i mean Avatar section. They didnt have good software to show it off.

Wii Motion plus is the same thing, just more precise. Essentially an update to the existing wiimote.

Sony's performed great, they had good software to demo it with (its all about the software, folks), and looked like something from an old Star Trek episode, lol.

Dagless

Jun 3, 2009, 05:49 PM

I saw someone say that MS should just build Natal into the NEXT XBOX. I pretty much agree with this...

My thoughts exactly. Nintendo did alright for themselves with the Wii controller and its expansion port. It means that we get new peripherals for a lot less than a stand-alone peripheral.
If Microsoft wants this thing standard it will need to be in the next Xbox. But given that next gen is probably just 1-2 years off it still isn't too far away.

MacRumorUser

Jun 3, 2009, 07:13 PM

My thoughts exactly. Nintendo did alright for themselves with the Wii controller and its expansion port. It means that we get new peripherals for a lot less than a stand-alone peripheral.

Dont go there girlfriend with the wii and extra peripherals ;) By the time you add up the cost of all those extra wii peripherals such as extra nunchuck if you buy a wii remote, balance board, motion plus, wii speak microphone etc.... Then it all works out just as expensive as a NATAL.

Besides no-ones forcing you to spend $199 and the reality is that NATAL will not be standard this gen, thats a physical impossibilty. So if you don't want it, or it's too expensive, then stay away. Personally if M$ came out with a Killer App and bundled it with the NATAL then the price isn't too steep for me.

I mean its only as pricy as many other stuff like ROCKBAND etc...

stainlessliquid

Jun 3, 2009, 07:54 PM

Ya, Natal doesn't seem that impressive (tech-wise). It's just a stick with a camera and a microphone in it. I don't see two cameras, so it's practically an EyeToy with new software... But there has to be something else in that bar :P

are you sure you dont see 2 cameras?
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/06/xbox-natal-pr-1.jpg

spaceballl

Jun 3, 2009, 07:56 PM

@stainlessliquid - keep in mind that's just a marketing mock-up. The journalists who have had a chance to try natal have said that it looks like a projector. About the size of a mini projector. Now... that being said, if the mockup has two cameras on it, then it probably requires two cameras :D

Taustin Powers

Jun 4, 2009, 01:30 AM

Just watched the videos again. Sony's really looks the most usable to me. The tracking was spot-on!

spyker3292

Jun 4, 2009, 07:50 AM

are you sure you dont see 2 cameras?
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/06/xbox-natal-pr-1.jpg

Ya ya ya.... I was reading something and noticed that I was wrong. I thought one dot was the microphone. So it's got 1 VGA camera and 1 IR camera, I guess that's something new :P

zacman

Jun 4, 2009, 03:09 PM

I don't understand how Natal can track depth... That's something I really don't get...

It uses an infra red camera for this.

It's explained here: http://gizmodo.com/5277954/testing-project-natal-we-touched-the-intangible

I find the discussion about it a bit funny. Maybe it's because someone would expect Apple to make such a system but not Microsoft. If Jobs had announced it with words like: "And we use a controller for the iConsole. - No of course we don't use a controller. We use the best controlling device that exists: your body!" everyone would say how revolutionary it is, etc. But because it's Microsoft it's totally faked :cool:

LethalWolfe

Jun 5, 2009, 06:23 AM

Natal is the most ambitious and that's one reason I'm most interested by it. Nintendo is obviously trying to refine their tech w/Motion Plus and Sony seems to be trying to bring out a more refined 'remote and nun-chuck' experience, but MS is looking further down the line. Maybe too far down the line for current gen consoles but at least they have an impressive goal in sight.

One of the biggest short comings w/the way Nintendo and Sony are going, IMO, is you still need a controller in your hand so you are limited to only one or two 'points of contact' w/the game. If Natal becomes a reality you lose those limitations. The Natal-friendly version of Burnout is already an example of this. The player's hands steer and their feet work the gas & brake. As opposed to a Wii driving game where the gas/brake are still buttons. Or imagine a Wii Music like game for the Natal. A complete air-band w/o the need for remotes, nun-chucks and a balance board.

On a more everyday/mundane focus think about just doing basic interactions w/the console w/o needing a controller. Obviously MS is wanting to make the xbox a media center so think about how nice it would be to interface w/the 360 w/o needing to pick up a controller. Personally I think it would be pretty sweet to flop down on my couch and rent a movie or turn on some music all w/o having to pick up a remote or a controller.

MS definitely chose a path more likely to lead to failure, but if they pull it off I think it will be awesome.

Lethal

NoSmokingBandit

Jun 5, 2009, 08:39 AM

One of the biggest short comings w/the way Nintendo and Sony are going, IMO, is you still need a controller in your hand so you are limited to only one or two 'points of contact' w/the game. If Natal becomes a reality you lose those limitations. The Natal-friendly version of Burnout is already an example of this. The player's hands steer and their feet work the gas & brake. As opposed to a Wii driving game where the gas/brake are still buttons. Or imagine a Wii Music like game for the Natal. A complete air-band w/o the need for remotes, nun-chucks and a balance board.

For a lot of things you need a controller in your hand. Imagine trying to accurately drum in Rock Band when you cant feel the sticks, can see/feel the drum heads, and have no idea where the cymbals are floating until you hit them.
Natal is limited in its usefulness because in real life there are very few things you do wihout holding onto something else.

Taustin Powers

Jun 5, 2009, 10:20 AM

MacRumorUser

Jun 5, 2009, 10:38 AM

I just have this frightening vision that two system generations down the road, holding a controller in our hands will be a distant nostalgic memory, while we are spastically jumping and twitching around the entire living room yelling voice commands at our TVs. :(

And then at E3 2020 they'll introduce the revolutionary system where you no longer have to jump around like an electrocuted epileptic at a barn-dance, and they will call it 'the gamepad' and it will allow us to play games without all the physical exercise....

stainlessliquid

Jun 5, 2009, 12:18 PM

One of the biggest short comings w/the way Nintendo and Sony are going, IMO, is you still need a controller in your hand so you are limited to only one or two 'points of contact' w/the game. If Natal becomes a reality you lose those limitations. The Natal-friendly version of Burnout is already an example of this. The player's hands steer and their feet work the gas & brake. As opposed to a Wii driving game where the gas/brake are still buttons. Or imagine a Wii Music like game for the Natal. A complete air-band w/o the need for remotes, nun-chucks and a balance board.
Controllers make things easier. Playing a racing game like a mime is a gimmick in its purest form. Would you want to get rid of the steering wheel and pedals in your car and drive on guess work? Or try to accurately play a guitar without a guitar in your hands? Having physical controls isnt a bad thing, besides Natal is still going to require controls so you can actually move around in the game world... making it the same as Sony's.

There are things where not having controls will work, like boxing, but I cant think of many examples.

Antares

Jun 5, 2009, 12:35 PM

And then at E3 2020 they'll introduce the revolutionary system where you no longer have to jump around like an electrocuted epileptic at a barn-dance, and they will call it 'the gamepad' and it will allow us to play games without all the physical exercise....

Naw...at E3 2020, they debut the headset where you can just think what you want to do and not even move. Simply lay on a couch and don't move a muscle...control everything with your mind.

LethalWolfe

Jun 5, 2009, 02:37 PM

For a lot of things you need a controller in your hand. Imagine trying to accurately drum in Rock Band when you cant feel the sticks, can see/feel the drum heads, and have no idea where the cymbals are floating until you hit them.
Natal is limited in its usefulness because in real life there are very few things you do wihout holding onto something else.
Of course motion based controls won't replace a real controller for every application, but there are instances where motion based can be better, IMO. Off the top of my head some types of games that can be more fun w/motion controllers would be tennis, golf, boxing, bowling, driving, rail/light gun shooters, RTS, skate/ski/snowboard, dance games, fishing, party games, etc.. If they can work the kinks out I even think FPS's could be better w/motion based controls than w/a game pad. A game like Rock Band I don't think would be doable w/o the fake guitars and drums, but that's why I used a game that relied much less on precision, Wii Music, in my example. ;)

Controllers make things easier. Playing a racing game like a mime is a gimmick in its purest form. Would you want to get rid of the steering wheel and pedals in your car and drive on guess work?
Would you want to get rid of the steering wheel and pedals in your car and drive using a gamepad? ;)

For driving games my first choice would be a steering wheel + pedals accessory, my second choice would be good motion controls and my third choice would be a gamepad. The biggest thing lacking from motion control is obviously force feedback and/or rumble, but steering/pedal peripherals can be expensive, bulky to store, and annoying to properly setup so that's a trade off I'd probably be willing to make since I'm more of a casual driving game player and not an enthusiast.

Having physical controls isnt a bad thing, besides Natal is still going to require controls so you can actually move around in the game world... making it the same as Sony's.
I actually think MS will release a wand style controller for use w/more complex games that require buttons, but unlike the PS3 and Wii the 360 won't be limited to just tracking the controller for motion-based input.

Lethal

whooleytoo

Jun 5, 2009, 03:10 PM

Controllers make things easier. Playing a racing game like a mime is a gimmick in its purest form. Would you want to get rid of the steering wheel and pedals in your car and drive on guess work? Or try to accurately play a guitar without a guitar in your hands? Having physical controls isnt a bad thing, besides Natal is still going to require controls so you can actually move around in the game world... making it the same as Sony's.

There are things where not having controls will work, like boxing, but I cant think of many examples.

I'd agree. In the racing game alone, there would be some many issues. How long can you comfortably hold your arms like that? How would you change gears? If you scratch your nose, do you fly off the track and die?

I'm sure many of the concepts would work in casual gaming, but for most genres a gamepad, or mouse and keyboard would be far more fun, and accurate.

Looks like classic Microsoft FUD to me. Sony and Nintendo else is doing motion control, so let's put together a cool vapourware demo that distracts everyone from them. IF anything comes of it, it'll look absolutely nothing like the Natal demo; but people will probably have forgotten by then. Gamers are like goldfish.

LethalWolfe

Jun 5, 2009, 03:58 PM

I'd agree. In the racing game alone, there would be some many issues. How long can you comfortably hold your arms like that? How would you change gears? If you scratch your nose, do you fly off the track and die?
I recently played Mario Kart Wii and the Cars driving game for hours on end w/my 6yr old nephew and neither one of us cramped up. ;) As far as shifting gears goes you could just make a stick-shift motion (which is what you do in the Natal version of Burnout to activate your boost) so it appears you can work the 'wheel' w/one hand. Which leaves your other hand free to scratch your nose, shift, or grab a drink. What happens when you take one hand away from the gamepad while playing a racing game? ;)

For the company w/the best motion control tech today I'd rank it Nintendo, Sony, MS. But for the company with, per the thread title, the 'coolest new motion concept' I have to give that to MS. The concept of Natal is much more intriguing to me then what Nintendo or Sony showed at E3.

Lethal

NoSmokingBandit

Jun 5, 2009, 04:55 PM

LethalWolfe

Jun 5, 2009, 05:48 PM

Natal is probably the coolest idea, but they have a lot of kinks to work out before it would be even remotely usable. It would require quite a bit of precessing to be able to track minute gestures i assume. What if im playing Burnout and reach to my right to grab my glass of tea? To the game it may look like im trying to shift.
What if you are holding a gamepad in your hands and you reach for your drink? What if you are holding a PS3 'wand' in each hand and reach for a drink? What if you are holding a Wii remote in your hands and reach for a drink? If Natal can tell the difference between "I need a cool drink of tea" and "I need to shift" it's got a one up over the competition. If it can't it's no worse than everyone else.

Can any Wii driving games use the balance board for gas/brake?

Right now, Sony's looks like the best bet. Wii Motion Plus is cool, but Wii Sports is the only game that seems to get motion controls down correctly. Im really looking forward to Wii Sports Resort.
In the near future I think Sony is going to be in the best position because they'll have a motion controller and a gamepad for the PS3. IMO too many Wii games have lame waggle or gesture mechanics instead of a simple button press because there isn't a proper gamepad for the Wii. I wouldn't be surprised if any release of Natal for the 360 is kludgy but that the next-gen Xbox will offer a much more refined version.

All this is definitely a far cry from the Le Stick (http://classicgames.about.com/od/consoleandhandheldgames/p/LeStickProfile.htm) I had for my Atari 2600 though. :D

Lethal

MattZani

Jun 5, 2009, 06:02 PM

Sony's Motion Controller.

Could actually be useful for more real feeling FPS's Games. MS has underestimated how useful a few buttons are, after all, you need a Trigger Button, and a Joystick is useful.

Dagless

Jun 5, 2009, 06:45 PM

I'd agree. In the racing game alone, there would be some many issues. How long can you comfortably hold your arms like that? How would you change gears? If you scratch your nose, do you fly off the track and die?

I'm sure many of the concepts would work in casual gaming, but for most genres a gamepad, or mouse and keyboard would be far more fun, and accurate.

Looks like classic Microsoft FUD to me. Sony and Nintendo else is doing motion control, so let's put together a cool vapourware demo that distracts everyone from them. IF anything comes of it, it'll look absolutely nothing like the Natal demo; but people will probably have forgotten by then. Gamers are like goldfish.

My concerns exactly. I can happily play Mario Kart Wii and similar games without getting cramps (although I rest my elbows on my legs or whatever, rather than holding them straight out). It's the precise stuff like changing gear, checking rear view, changing camera angle, precise acceleration, hand brake turns... Basically everything that isn't steering that I can see being problematic. You need feedback for some things. You need to know where the gear bit starts and ends, you need to know where the 0% acceleration and 100% acceleration ends are. There does need to be tactile feedback.

However... If its tied in with a regular controller and tilting it made a change on screen then yea, but that is just accomplishing what the Wii and PS3 already does.

Natal. I don't get it (yet).

Jellix

Jun 5, 2009, 06:53 PM

As ps3-fanboy I voted for ps3. My explanation done by mac ads : If microsoft releases a nice new cool feature for their xbox, ignore it!

LethalWolfe

Jun 5, 2009, 07:20 PM

Natal. I don't get it (yet).
Unless you are specifically looking for ways it won't work I don't see you can't acknowledge how it could work. Take a boxing game, for example, where pretty much every thing you are doing w/the gamepad is designed to try and mimic a human being throwing a punch. Or a golf game w/all the meters and stuff when all you are trying to do is mimic a human being swinging a golf club. Or a tennis game. Or any number of party games that inherently have very basic controls. And the nice part w/the casual games is you wouldn't have to buy multiple controllers for people who don't game that much.

Lethal

Dagless

Jun 5, 2009, 07:27 PM

Oh I can see it working very well for first person fighting games, that karate demo was very ace and I'd buy any boxing game for it without second thought. It's just for everything else I'd prefer to be holding a controller of some sort. Much like the iPod game market now - it runs specially designed (and limited) software very well but give it Monster Hunter Freedom or a Castlevania game and it's buggered.

I just don't see it as the second coming of gaming as others are. Unfortunately we're heading into a future that's going to be ladened with controllers, cameras and balance boards if you want to play a wide selection of games :o.

NoSmokingBandit

Jun 5, 2009, 08:06 PM

What if you are holding a gamepad in your hands and you reach for your drink? What if you are holding a PS3 'wand' in each hand and reach for a drink? What if you are holding a Wii remote in your hands and reach for a drink? If Natal can tell the difference between "I need a cool drink of tea" and "I need to shift" it's got a one up over the competition. If it can't it's no worse than everyone else.

If i have a controller in my hand and i reach for a drink nothing has happened on screen because i havent pressed any buttons, this may or may not be true depending on how Natal interprets my movements.
If i have my wiimote in my hand i reach for my tea i can still keep driving in MarioKart because i can turn/accelerate with one hand and the wii isnt mistaking my other hand gesture for anything.

Natal is an all-or-nothing scenario. If it thinks im grabbing tea then its a win. If it doesnt its a fail. There really isnt a middle ground.

LethalWolfe

Jun 5, 2009, 09:47 PM

I just don't see it as the second coming of gaming as others are. Unfortunately we're heading into a future that's going to be ladened with controllers, cameras and balance boards if you want to play a wide selection of games :o.
I don't think it's the second coming, but I can see how it would be a better interface for some games and for generally interfacing w/the Dashboard. No kidding about all the peripherals though. All the Guitar Hero/Rock Band stuff, DJ Hero, all the Wii stuff, Tony Hawk's Ride (which uses a skateboard peripheral)... ugh. If Natal ends up working like it's supposed to it will actually help cut down on controller clutter which is another reason I like the concept. I mean, how nice would it be to play casual games (Wii Sports, trivia, party games, etc.,) and not have to have a draw full of controllers to do so?

If i have a controller in my hand and i reach for a drink nothing has happened on screen because i havent pressed any buttons, this may or may not be true depending on how Natal interprets my movements.
If i have my wiimote in my hand i reach for my tea i can still keep driving in MarioKart because i can turn/accelerate with one hand and the wii isnt mistaking my other hand gesture for anything.
If you are playing a racing game and you take a hand off the gamepad you'll lose the ability to completely control the car and, being right handed, I didn't think about grabbing something w/yer left hand while playing Mario Kart.:o

Lethal

.Andy

Jun 5, 2009, 09:57 PM

Looking forward to them all. I have a Wii and am really looking forward to motion plus. Also have a PS3 so looking forward to their wand. My bro has a 360 so will get to natal it. Win-win-win.

Things are very different this year from when the Wii first introduced their motion control :). About time the other companies got in on it.

TuffLuffJimmy

Jun 5, 2009, 10:01 PM

dukebound85

Jun 5, 2009, 10:04 PM

is it just me who does NOT want motion controls?

i hate the gimmicky wii. i love my standard controller usage

enough with the novelty cheesy ideas

.Andy

Jun 5, 2009, 10:07 PM

I don't get what's new about Nintendo's Wii. Anyone care to explain to me what makes it different from the Wii's current set up?
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/06/tiger-woods-with-the-motionplus-possible-killer-app-video.ars

TuffLuffJimmy

Jun 5, 2009, 10:07 PM

is it just me who does NOT want motion controls?

i hate the gimmicky wii. i love my standard controller usage

enough with the novelty cheesy ideas
A gimmick takes away from an experience over all and is a hindrance. Since the Wii has proven, many times over, to make a more enjoyable experience for the vast majority of people it cannot be defined as a gimmick.

Standard controllers aren't going anywhere, Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft are just trying to appeal to a bigger audience. Microsoft in true carbon copy fashion (they're even advertising it as fun for the whole family), Nintendo in a truly innovative way, and Sony in a classic, poor, slipshod way.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/06/tiger-woods-with-the-motionplus-possible-killer-app-video.ars

I'm sure that there is something new there, but I don't play Wii (or really any games besides Ocarina of Time) very often, so I don't see much difference in how it works now. That accessory will probably be a tough sell to the general public since it doesn't look like much new.

NoSmokingBandit

Jun 5, 2009, 10:18 PM

If you are playing a racing game and you take a hand off the gamepad you'll lose the ability to completely control the car and, being right handed, I didn't think about grabbing something w/yer left hand while playing Mario Kart.:o

Lethal
If im playing a racing game i would wait for a straight section to take my left hand off the control. If im on a strait section and Natal thinks im downshifting instead of grabbing a glass then i jest lost the race.

LethalWolfe

Jun 5, 2009, 10:35 PM

If im playing a racing game i would wait for a straight section to take my left hand off the control. If im on a strait section and Natal thinks im downshifting instead of grabbing a glass then i jest lost the race.
Obviously all you'd have to do is wait until you are far enough ahead of everyone else so that a momentary downshift wouldn't cost you the race. ;)

Lethal

dukebound85

Jun 5, 2009, 10:42 PM

A gimmick takes away from an experience over all and is a hindrance. Since the Wii has proven, many times over, to make a more enjoyable experience for the vast majority of people it cannot be defined as a gimmick.

sorry, all i need to do is look at the wii's game lineup. 80%+ of the titles are gimmicky imo with the exceptions being largely first party platform games

after having a wii, 360, and ps3, my least favorite by a landslide is the wii

proven? hardly to me. developers tend to add motion contols for the sake of motion controls and more often than not, it is such a bad implementation it make the game suck.

of course this is my opinion just as its your opinion you dont think the wii is gimmicky lol

NoSmokingBandit

Jun 6, 2009, 07:46 AM

sorry, all i need to do is look at the wii's game lineup. 80%+ of the titles are gimmicky imo with the exceptions being largely first party platform games

after having a wii, 360, and ps3, my least favorite by a landslide is the wii

proven? hardly to me. developers tend to add motion contols for the sake of motion controls and more often than not, it is such a bad implementation it make the game suck.

of course this is my opinion just as its your opinion you dont think the wii is gimmicky lol

The controls themselves arent gimmicky, its just the developers that use them in a gimmicky way. Wii Sports is one of the most fun games i have ever played and its all due to the controls. There are tons of other games that just tack the motion controls on at the end of the game development and screw it all up though. It all boils down to how good the game developer is, and Nintendo has a few good ones and a ton of bad ones. MS, on the other hand, only has a few but they are pretty good, but Sony has a ton of great developers, so i have faith in their ability to make motion control work correctly.

Dagless

Jun 6, 2009, 08:09 AM

is it just me who does NOT want motion controls?

i hate the gimmicky wii. i love my standard controller usage

enough with the novelty cheesy ideas

I like motion controls but there are times where standard controls are required. I'm glad the Wii and PS3 has both though. Some of the most fun I've had with a games console in recent years was on WarioWare and Wii Sports.

sorry, all i need to do is look at the wii's game lineup. 80%+ of the titles are gimmicky imo with the exceptions being largely first party platform games

Oh that's very clever. Judging a system by the (admittedly poor) bulk of the software. Most Hollywood films are crap, should I give up on them altogether? Regardless of the bulk of the games (just like the PSP, or PS2, 360, PS3, PC...) Brawl, Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, Resident Evil 4, Twilight Princess, Metroid Prime 3/Trilogy, Wii Sports, Mad World, World of Goo, Paper Mario and Boom Blox are all very good and enjoyable games. And then there's a new Zelda, 2 new Mario games, new Metroid, Monster Hunter 3 that will all do the high score rounds too.

dukebound85

Jun 6, 2009, 10:16 AM

Oh that's very clever. Judging a system by the (admittedly poor) bulk of the software.

why yes, i judge a system by the software availiable for it:cool:

Oneness

Jun 6, 2009, 10:21 AM

We need another poll that asks how many people think that MS can actually pull off the NATAL thing. I say it comes to market half realized and buggy. MS will market hard for a couple of years with a few big game releases to go along with it. They will eventually slash the price and stop any further development of the concept. Someone else will take this tech to the next level.

rev316

Jun 6, 2009, 10:22 AM

Too much media crap to figure out what actually works.

al la.. I'm holding my opinion 'till I see it hit the reviewer's hands.

Dagless

Jun 6, 2009, 01:29 PM

why yes, i judge a system by the software availiable for it:cool:

You went and missed my point entirely.

We need another poll that asks how many people think that MS can actually pull off the NATAL thing. I say it comes to market half realized and buggy. MS will market hard for a couple of years with a few big game releases to go along with it. They will eventually slash the price and stop any further development of the concept. Someone else will take this tech to the next level.

Microsoft release something buggy and half realised, you're joking right? :D
But what could be interesting is if they mixed both Natal and their 'wand', so we get games that you can hide behind the couch, crawl out and shoot some bad guys (like in the original Wii video). If just for kicks.

viperguy

Jun 6, 2009, 01:46 PM

Microsoft looks really good to me.
And Nintendo is dead... the competitors now have better hardware AND better controls than the Wii.
I'm so pissed off lol

zap2

Jun 6, 2009, 01:53 PM

Microsoft looks really good to me.
And Nintendo is dead... the competitors now have better hardware AND better controls than the Wii.
I'm so pissed off lol

Do you really believe that?

First off Sony and MS don't have anything on market yet....and they still need good software to using the technology. Plus MS/Sony have to convince people to buy the add on(Nintendo does to, at least for motion plus, but for a console already based off motion sense, a small add on is a smaller jump). And lastly Nintendo is swimming in money, they could afford to take a lose...or push out new hardware.

Dagless

Jun 6, 2009, 03:03 PM

And Nintendo is dead...
Lol.

NoSmokingBandit

Jun 6, 2009, 03:25 PM

And Nintendo is dead...

As long as Nintendo has Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Mario, Pokemon, SSB, and Mario Kart they will never die.

evilgEEk

Jun 6, 2009, 04:25 PM

As for motion plus. I just keep wanting to scream at nintendo... Just sod adding another peripheral. Release a god damn Motion Plus Wii Remote. Full stop.....

Of course if they released a new Wiimote with Motion Plus you would be going on about having to buy a new Wiimote. ;)

I like the idea of just adding it on.

Motion Plus is the most practical I think. Sony's is ridiculous and Microsoft is synonymous with crash, so it just won't happen.

Motion controls are great when implemented correctly. Obviously there is a TON of crap out there on the Wii, but there are also some awesome games with the integrated motion controls. The first one that comes to my mind is Excite Truck. Extremely simple, yet so much fun with motion! I would love to play an F-Zero with motion controls, but alas, Nintendo and Sega seem to have forgotten about the franchise. :(

So Motion Plus for me, hands down. It's proven, and it's not over-the-top.

Chone

Jun 7, 2009, 03:34 AM

As long as Nintendo has Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Mario, Pokemon, SSB, and Mario Kart they will never die.

They'll eventually need new IPs, they already ruined Mario Kart and the Pokemon formula is starting to get a little stale.

But I agree, it's ridiculous to say Nintendo is dead.

evilgEEk

Jun 7, 2009, 03:45 PM

They'll eventually need new IPs, they already ruined Mario Kart...

I still think Mario Kart is awesome. I still play it multiple times a week, and I'm just doing circuit races over and over, so for me it obviously still has pretty incredible replay value. Plus it's my son's favorite game. ;)

But I agree. Nintendo is getting to the point where they're not going to be able to live off of their classic IP's. I will admit that when I bought my 'Cube I bought it for the sole reason to play Mario Kart, Mario and Zelda. That's it. My wife and I very nearly bought a Playstation, but settled on the 'Cube because of Nintendo's IP.

When the Wii came out it was a no-brainer for me, but I would say 70% of that decision was based on price. There was no way I was spending $300 or more on a video game console.

But for me personally, unless Nintendo doesn't get something new and fresh going, rather than constant re-hashes (many have been quality, but rehashed nonetheless) they're not going to survive the next round.

MacRumorUser

Jun 7, 2009, 04:04 PM

Of course if they released a new Wiimote with Motion Plus you would be going on about having to buy a new Wiimote. ;)
.

Actually NO I wouldn't. I would rather spend €45/50 on a new wii-remote with motion plus built in, than pay €25 for the motion plus accessory on its own.

And before you say it will come packaged with some games.

Yes but what if you have more than 1 remote, and the game with motion plus supports 4 players ? You will have to buy the accessory on its own.

Like I'd say, Id rather just trade in my old remotes and buy new wii-remotes with MP built in anyday.

Lets face it 4 player WiiSportsResort is going to be very expensive by the time you factor in the game+motion plus, and 3 extra motion plus accessories.

And yet people complain about NATAL's price point.

Dagless

Jun 7, 2009, 06:17 PM

But that depends on bundling Motion Plus with other games and future controllers. I plan on buying Red Steel 2 and Wii Sports Resort so that's (if I heard right about RS2) 2 Motion Plus dongles off the bat... The same number of Wii controllers I own. Everyone I know around my way plans on picking up Wii Sports Resort so everyone here will have at least 1.

I just hope they bundle this with all the major Motion Plus games for a while.
I doubt Natal will be bundled with any game, though I imagine it will come packaged with some cheap game (what was that bongo game that came with the camera called?).

whooleytoo

Jun 8, 2009, 01:46 PM

I recently played Mario Kart Wii and the Cars driving game for hours on end w/my 6yr old nephew and neither one of us cramped up. ;) As far as shifting gears goes you could just make a stick-shift motion (which is what you do in the Natal version of Burnout to activate your boost) so it appears you can work the 'wheel' w/one hand. Which leaves your other hand free to scratch your nose, shift, or grab a drink. What happens when you take one hand away from the gamepad while playing a racing game? ;)

For the company w/the best motion control tech today I'd rank it Nintendo, Sony, MS. But for the company with, per the thread title, the 'coolest new motion concept' I have to give that to MS. The concept of Natal is much more intriguing to me then what Nintendo or Sony showed at E3.

Perhaps I'm a wimp then (need some Wii-fit?) but I really, really wouldn't want to play any driving game by holding my hands out like that for any period of time.

As for gear-shifts, I would be very, very, very surprised if Microsoft had a gear system that could accurately recognise gear-shifts. Turning a wheel is one thing, but subtle, short forwards/backwards/lateral movements of a hand for gear changes would be very challenging for a motion-sensor system to accurately recognise. I'll eat my hat if one there is one post on the internet in a year's time: "Forza 3 with Natal controls rocks!". :p

I'm just not sure I trust the motion system not to interpret other movements (scratching, eating, drinking (not at the same time!), wiping away crumbs.. ) as game-input. And if it can't be done accurately, it won't be in games.

For simple, casual gaming it might work well - and perhaps that's MS's target for this. But I'll believe it when I see it. Until then, it's a control system which is impractical (voice control) and has serious ergonomic issues (motion detection), IMO.

LethalWolfe

Jun 8, 2009, 02:39 PM

As for gear-shifts, I would be very, very, very surprised if Microsoft had a gear system that could accurately recognise gear-shifts. Turning a wheel is one thing, but subtle, short forwards/backwards/lateral movements of a hand for gear changes would be very challenging for a motion-sensor system to accurately recognise.
I think Natal could recognize the movements but I think it would be difficult for a person to accurately 'air shift' unless they were in a cockpit view so they could watch their virtual hand grab the virtual stick. The easy solution would be to make shifting a simple forward/back motion.

For simple, casual gaming it might work well - and perhaps that's MS's target for this. But I'll believe it when I see it. Until then, it's a control system which is impractical (voice control) and has serious ergonomic issues (motion detection), IMO.
Well, yeah that's the target. Nothing is going to replace a physical interface across the board. Motion controls work great for something like Wii Boxing but not so great for something like UFC Undisputed.

Lethal

evilgEEk

Jun 9, 2009, 12:59 AM

Actually NO I wouldn't.

LIES!!!!

;)

Kidding.

Actually, I didn't mean for it to come out as you personally, I was aiming for 'you' in general, but it didn't come out that way.

Do we even know how much the Motion Plus will cost? I agree a $60 controller is ridiculous, and then tag on Motion Plus and you're probably nearing $80. It's kind of funny though, I've never had a need for more than two nunchucks. So for a year and a half I've only had the two, and have never ran in to a situation where I needed more.

I still don't think the games should be any more than $50. Soon enough we'll be paying $800 for consoles and $100 for games. Dumb.

whooleytoo

Jun 9, 2009, 06:16 AM

I think Natal could recognize the movements but I think it would be difficult for a person to accurately 'air shift' unless they were in a cockpit view so they could watch their virtual hand grab the virtual stick. The easy solution would be to make shifting a simple forward/back motion.

Not sure it's that easy! ;)

Recognising vertical and lateral movements should be relatively easy, but recognising forward and backward motion would be far more tricky. There's less 'difference' for the cameras to detect, and I'd worry there isn't enough width between the cameras to detect that level of depth.

Furthermore - to push a virtual gearstick forwards, you have to put your hand back first (and vice versa). I think it would be challenging to determine if the player is pulling his hand back to push the gearstick forwards, or pulling the gearstick back then pushing it forwards again.

MacRumorUser

Jun 9, 2009, 06:55 AM

Furthermore - to push a virtual gearstick forwards, you have to put your hand back first (and vice versa). I think it would be challenging to determine if the player is pulling his hand back to push the gearstick forwards, or pulling the gearstick back then pushing it forwards again.

To be honest, it can't be any harder than some of the wii controls which require you to push forward to snipe etc... They are all bloody useless and don't work 99% of the time either.

I voted for NATAL on what 'possibilities' it could mean, rather than how successful in use it would be this generation. It seemingly is the most future-tech of all the devices, and for that reason it sparks the imagination more.

I have struggled with a lot of wii controls in games. I'm not great at holding the wii-remote and nunchuck in my hands at the same time, and have never found the combination of the two to be remotely comfortable. Add to the assumption were all right handed by 99% of the games out there - irritates me profoundly on a device which is meant to be more in-tuned with human gesture.

As Sony's device is basically Wii-remote with a glowing testicle on the end, and as I am veritably jaded with the wii - for me personally at this point it simply doesn't hold as much allure.

.Andy

Jun 9, 2009, 09:06 AM

Ars Technica just posted up its winners and losers of E3.

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/06/e3-2009-who-won-who-lost-who-wins-a-golden-ars.ars

Best Motion-Controller: While Microsoft and Sony's offerings may have looked neat, they're a long way off, and there was a nagging feeling that we were looking at magic tricks, not hardware that's ready for consumers. On the other hand, there were many games on the show floor that used the Wii MotionPlus, and the hardware looked and felt great.

Wii Sports Resort was amazingly precise, Tiger Woods PGA Tour 10 was a huge leap from last year's model, and Shigeru Miyamoto hinted that we may see MotionPlus-enabled sword fighting in the next Zelda release. It's great hardware, it's $20, and it will be out in a matter of days. This was an easy choice.

However they also voted the Nintendo keynote the worst in show. Something nintendo seem to excel at year after year :D!

LethalWolfe

Jun 9, 2009, 02:29 PM

Recognising vertical and lateral movements should be relatively easy, but recognising forward and backward motion would be far more tricky. There's less 'difference' for the cameras to detect, and I'd worry there isn't enough width between the cameras to detect that level of depth.
The Natal demo using Burn Out had players slide their foot forward & back to control acceleration as well as perform a shift-like gesture to activate the turbo boost. Although the system has two cameras it doesn't use binocular vision. As I understand it one camera is basically an RGB video camera that records a 2D image and the other camera is an IR camera used to record a 3D image. The software, which reportedly tracks 48 points on your body, then combines the data from both cameras to create a complete 3D image.

Furthermore - to push a virtual gearstick forwards, you have to put your hand back first (and vice versa). I think it would be challenging to determine if the player is pulling his hand back to push the gearstick forwards, or pulling the gearstick back then pushing it forwards again.
Think of the 'auto-stick' feature in some cars where stick always snaps back to a neutral position. A natural neutral position for a 'virtual stick' is about mid-thigh so moving your hand from mid-thigh towards your knee could signal a down shift and moving your hand from mid-thigh towards your hip could signal an up shift.

Lethal

evilgEEk

Jun 9, 2009, 08:33 PM

However they also voted the Nintendo keynote the worst in show. Something nintendo seem to excel at year after year :D!

Extra points for consistency! ;)

stainlessliquid

Jun 10, 2009, 12:29 PM

Sony's demonstration and technology was complete crap. It was true Sony "me too" style, just like they're six axis controller, which was barely functioning when they first showed it off (they did it just because the of Nintendo's Wii).

Microsoft's technology looks crazy sweet and is definitely a show stopping piece of work, especially if it turns out to be functional (which I fully expect). The only issue I can see with it: it looks like you will have to play in a well let area, especially for facial recognition, and most gamers play in a dark room.

I don't get what's new about Nintendo's Wii. Anyone care to explain to me what makes it different from the Wii's current set up?

There werent any "me too" moments from anyone. Sony has been working with motion controls with the Eye Toy since the PS2, and has stepped it up even more ever since the Eye Toy 2 came out. Six Axis was a last minute rip off but its kind of impossible to rip off Nintendo and MS when Sony was doing all this stuff several years before them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzNJwk9Z4ds
The difference between then and now? It just works a lot better and can do 3d space.

MS's was also original enough not to be a copy of Sony's old Eye Toy stuff. Theyre trying to get rid of any type of controls and are using new technology with a 3d camera.

spaceballl

Jun 10, 2009, 12:35 PM

Dagless

Jun 10, 2009, 12:54 PM

I might pick it up too, and I don't bother with golf games!

whooleytoo

Jun 10, 2009, 01:14 PM

The Natal demo using Burn Out had players slide their foot forward & back to control acceleration as well as perform a shift-like gesture to activate the turbo boost. Although the system has two cameras it doesn't use binocular vision. As I understand it one camera is basically an RGB video camera that records a 2D image and the other camera is an IR camera used to record a 3D image. The software, which reportedly tracks 48 points on your body, then combines the data from both cameras to create a complete 3D image.

Interesting, thanks, I didn't know that. Not sure how one IR camera will accurately map a 3D image, but it'll be interesting to see.

Think of the 'auto-stick' feature in some cars where stick always snaps back to a neutral position. A natural neutral position for a 'virtual stick' is about mid-thigh so moving your hand from mid-thigh towards your knee could signal a down shift and moving your hand from mid-thigh towards your hip could signal an up shift.

You still have the same problem. To move your hand from mid-thigh to your hip, you first have to move your hand TO mid-thigh, which could be interpreted as a shift-up, before the shift-down. Gamers aren't robots who can accurately find an invisible virtual stick in the middle of a game, but the sensors would require that accuracy for the game.

I was overly optimistic about the Wii's potential, and mine is now gathering dust in a box somewhere. Maybe Project Natal will deliver, but I don't believe a word until I'm playing actual titles with motion sensors as accurate as those demoed. I'll remain a cynic until I have games in hand, until that Nigerian dictator has lodged 12m in my account etc..etc..

LethalWolfe

Jun 10, 2009, 02:08 PM

Interesting, thanks, I didn't know that. Not sure how one IR camera will accurately map a 3D image, but it'll be interesting to see.
I do not know exactly how it works, but it's the same technology that allows robots to see in 3D. So the tech of using IR to create a 3D image is sound, it just hasn't been used in an application like this before.

You still have the same problem. To move your hand from mid-thigh to your hip, you first have to move your hand TO mid-thigh, which could be interpreted as a shift-up, before the shift-down. Gamers aren't robots who can accurately find an invisible virtual stick in the middle of a game, but the sensors would require that accuracy for the game.
Yeah, that's what I was getting at before about needing a cockpit view so the player could see exactly where their virtual hand is in relationship to the virtual shifter. I think the Natal is more accurate than you think it is though. Going back to the demo again, it could detect relatively small foot movements as well as detect the gear shift motion to kick on the turbo. Everything I read, and everyone I've talked to, that did the Burn Out demo was very impressed w/how well it worked. Was it basic? Yes. Was it flawless? No. But it seemed to convince a lot of people who skeptics after seeing the MS press con that the thing could actually work and is more than just wishful thinking.

I was overly optimistic about the Wii's potential, and mine is now gathering dust in a box somewhere. Maybe Project Natal will deliver, but I don't believe a word until I'm playing actual titles with motion sensors as accurate as those demoed. I'll remain a cynic until I have games in hand, until that Nigerian dictator has lodged 12m in my account etc..etc..
I'm not going to pre-order a Natal or anything like that, but it is the most interesting motion control concept of the big three, IMO.

Lethal

evilgEEk

Jun 10, 2009, 09:47 PM

FWIW, I just read the Tiger Woods 10 review over @ IGN. They gave it a 9.0 out of 10... This uses Wii Motion Plus. They said this is the best version of Tiger Woods on any system. Maybe the Wii Motion Plus is better than we expected? I MIGHT pick this one up... might...

I'm definitely picking it up. I'm a fan of the series anyway, but this one looks to be awesome. All the reviews are just raving about it.

This is why I voted Motion Plus. I'm sure Nintendo could have debuted a motion technology that won't be released for five years too, but instead their motion technology is actually happening. :)