EU: Elections Today

[robbieduncan]

I hope all of the MacRumors members in the EU are out voting today. If you don't vote then I hope you won't complain about anything the European Parliament does for it's next term!

I voted on my way to work. I have to admit I wasn't too impressed with the choice on offer but I managed to find a party to vote for.

Edit: it seems that only us (the UK) and the Dutch are voting today with the rest to follow over the next three days...

[mcnicks]

I cast mine first thing this morning. Regardless of how disaffected I might feel about the political process right now, I always get a bit charged about the very idea of voting.

[Jaffa Cake]

I believe the polls are open until 10pm this evening, so circumstances permitting I'll pop down tonight.

[NATO]

Time for voters in Northern Ireland to choose which 3 monkeys to send off to the European gravy train... Wouldn't mind the job myself but seemingly competence excludes you from politics.

I'm protest voting over the recent expenses scandal (among other things that have annoyed me about UK politics recently) - it's the only way politicians will get the notion that they can't take the electorate for granted. It doesn't help that the candidate put up by my usual party of choice is a complete idiot and I'm planning to punish them for putting up a poor candidate

[arkitect]

I hope all of the MacRumors members in the EU are out voting today

Yup. Just got back from the polling station.

:)

[Conversion]

Have to wait until Sunday to vote here in Denmark.

[thecritix]

I can't vote as my polling address is registered as my parents address and i can't get there today.. however

I would not wish to vote anyway.

I have never had a vote on whether to be in Europe or not, I've never been able to reject these European thieves.

I wish the UK was in a similar position to Norway, friends with europe but not sending my tax money to pay hundreds of thousands of pounds to MEP's I don't want, don't like and don't trust.

I don't like the open borders work policies, I don't like the fact that my local area is over run by eastern europeans while British people are jobless.

I hate the fact that they want to make the United Kingdom, whatever you may think of her at the moment.. a region of the 'State' of Europe.

I don't want to live in Eurasia, I want to live in Britain.

Even if I voted UKIP (I don't want to because they take as much as anyone else and have been proved corrupt) it's not in their power to get us out from just being MEP's.

[robbieduncan]

I can't vote as my polling address is registered as my parents address and i can't get there today.. however

I would not wish to vote anyway.

I have never had a vote on whether to be in Europe or not, I've never been able to reject these European thieves.

Then you should have made the effort to vote for one of the many parties who are standing on a platform of us leaving the EU. By not voting you have, in my eyes, given up any right to complain or be upset about anything the EU does until the next election.

[Jaffa Cake]

I would not wish to vote anyway...Then why not do as many others do and protest your vote by submitting a spoilt ballot?

I've said it before on a number of threads, but I would be strongly in favour of a 'none of the above' option on our voting forms for those who wish to express their dissatisfaction at the candidates we're offered.

If this were the case, then - aside from genuine reasons such as, say, illness - the only excuse not to vote would be apathy.

[thecritix]

It's a well practiced point that you make... however

What you consider my right to vote, on this occasion I also consider my right to abstain.
I will vote in a UK election because that is my government of my country, but the EU is not my government, I don't want them and won't partake in their sham elections.

What bigger blow to the 'democratic' system can there be than its people saying 'no thank you' and there being a very low turn out.

I don't believe that any of the parties deserve my vote, I believe they are all on the fiddle and that by voting I am supporting a candidate who is likely just as corrupt as the one whom he replaces.

[robbieduncan]

What bigger blow to the 'democratic' system can there be than its people saying 'no thank you' and there being a very low turn out.

A big blow would be a huge number of spoiled ballots. Most people not voting will do so through apathy, laziness or similar. You will be lumped in with them, not with a group who do not agree with any of the available choices.

[Jaffa Cake]

What bigger blow to the 'democratic' system can there be than its people saying 'no thank you' and there being a very low turn out.

A big blow would be a huge number of spoiled ballots. Most people not voting will do so through apathy, laziness or similar.Indeed. Submit a spoilt ballot and you're at least showing you're bothered enough about our politics to go in to a polling station and express an opinion. It's clearly a vote lost due to dissatisfaction in the choices we as an electorate are given.

By 'abstaining' you're giving those in power clear licence to do what the hell they want – if you can't be bothered enough to vote, why should those in power be bothered about your wants and needs?

[thecritix]

Indeed. Submit a spoilt ballot and you're at least showing you're bothered enough about our politics to go in to a polling station and express an opinion. It's clearly a vote lost due to dissatisfaction in the choices we as an electorate are given.

By 'abstaining' you're giving those in power clear licence to do what the hell they want – if you can't be bothered enough to vote, why should those in power be bothered about your wants and needs?

They don't care about my wants and needs!!!

None of them at all, we the people have no power over them, we're ruled not led. The small policy details change but the song remains the same..

They'll do what the hell they want anyway.. look at the Lisbon treaty/EU constitution they don't care what the public wants.

Same old story again:

Brown will reshuffle the same old crap and the same old donkeys will be trotted out to say something like we need to reconnect with the public, show that Labour has done a good job for the British people and keep working hard for them. blah blah blah.

And so it goes on...

[garybUK]

I think the only way we, as a country, will matter in the future is being part of an enlarged EU. Collective will be able to throw more weight behind global politics and economics.

I'll be voting tonight.

[arkitect]

They don't care about my wants and needs!!!
What exactly are these wants and needs?
A protest vote by you would have sent a message — just sitting back and moaning about things is, well… perhaps not the most well thought through strategy.

I think the only way we, as a country, will matter in the future is being part of an enlarged EU. Collective will be able to throw more weight behind global politics and economics.
Agreed.
There is no way the UK could ever hope to compete globally without being part of the EU…

[instaxgirl]

I woke up and thought SHIIIIT 'cause I haven't bothered looking into it at all so I'll have to spend a few hours researching it today. I always vote though, seems disrespectful to me not to given that 100 years ago I wouldn't have been able to.

Also my parents are on holiday and someone from this family has to vote.


I will vote in a UK election because that is my government of my country, but the EU is not my government, I don't want them and won't partake in their sham elections.


Hell's Bells, you do realise that European Laws trump UK Laws right? The EU does govern us in several areas. That's why we have a vote in these "sham elections".

Incidentally I for one am very happy about the open work borders, I'll probably be using them for much of my professional life.

[cqexbesd]

I don't like the fact that my local area is over run by eastern europeans while British people are jobless.

My area has rising unemployment as well with the Ford factory closing and workplaces cutting back...but you know..I went and asked and it turns out the head of Ford isn't Polish! And blow me away when I found out that the city bankers, who have to take at least some of the blame for the mess the economy is in, largely seemed to be white British people. I went to see who was in the government that was doing stuff all to help regular working people and lo and behold they weren't Polish either.

I can't help but think something is fishy when I'm told all the problems are due to migrants cause all I ever find in charge is filthy rich white people in need of moat cleaning services. Ah well if we get a party in with an anti-migrant stance I guess we can get back the million British people living in Australia and I'm sure the Spanish will be glad to have their beaches back.

[garybUK]

My area has rising unemployment as well with the Ford factory closing and workplaces cutting back...but you know..I went and asked and it turns out the head of Ford isn't Polish! And blow me away when I found out that the city bankers, who have to take at least some of the blame for the mess the economy is in, largely seemed to be white British people. I went to see who was in the government that was doing stuff all to help regular working people and lo and behold they weren't Polish either.

I can't help but think something is fishy when I'm told all the problems are due to migrants cause all I ever find in charge is filthy rich white people in need of moat cleaning services. Ah well if we get a party in with an anti-migrant stance I guess we can get back the million British people living in Australia and I'm sure the Spanish will be glad to have their beaches back.

Fear of the unknown, don't see the Spanish complaining when brits open 'British Pubs' in benidorm etc.

[Queso]

I shall vote, although until I turn up at the voting booth I'm not sure who for. The Jury Team is interesting IMO, going on what their website says they stand for.

Jury Team (http://www.juryteam.org/about.php)

[robbieduncan]

I shall vote, although until I turn up at the voting booth I'm not sure who for. The Jury Team is interesting IMO, going on what their website says they stand for.

Jury Team (http://www.juryteam.org/about.php)

Indeed, although as a loose coalition of independents rather than a unified party with a manifesto it was difficult for me to be sure what I'd get if I voted for them.

[Queso]

Indeed, although as a loose coalition of independents rather than a unified party with a manifesto it was difficult for me to be sure what I'd get if I voted for them.
The individual candidates for each area outline exactly what their stance on a number of issues are in their website profile. You're voting for an individual who has committed to an agreed platform of political reform, so the onus is on you to read what each of them is about on other issues before choosing the one to support.

Not as easy as supporting a mainstream party, which of course means they'll get less votes. People tend to be too lazy :(

[robbieduncan]

The individual candidates for each area outline exactly what their stance on a number of issues are in their website profile. You're voting for an individual who has committed to an agreed platform of political reform, so the onus is on you to read what each of them is about on other issues before choosing the one to support.

Not as easy as supporting a mainstream party, which of course means they'll get less votes. People tend to be too lazy :(

Unless I was looking at the ballot paper wrongly this morning it doesn't quite work like that. Unlike the "true" independents the JT are listed as a party: so if you put your cross against that and they managed to win 1 seat their first nominated person gets it, 2 then the first 2 and so on. Their candidate list (in order) along with all the other parties is here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/articles/2009/05/11/london_mep_candidates09_feature.shtml). So if you vote for them you are basically voting for Reza Tabrizi (as I can't see them winning more than one seat). You can't vote for, say, David Littlejohn...

[firestarter]

I just voted.

Very happy to assist in driving a few more nails into Gordon's coffin.

[opinioncircle]

Here in France, voting only starts on Sunday. I've just received the political propositions by mail, and so far, NONE has convinced me. Probably going to get a blank vote...

Medias are forecasting only 30% vote participation in France....This election is going to be a blast :D

[BoyBach]

I was torn between casting a spoilt vote or The Green Party. I went with the latter.

[Queso]

I voted about an hour ago :)

[Jaffa Cake]

I voted about an hour ago :)As did I. It's a wonder we didn't bump into one another. :)

[bartelby]

Yep. Voted.

Just wish it was a general election...

[NATO]

Just voted, and I noticed the polling station was eeeeerily quiet. Usually there's a lot of people outside doing last minute canvassing but there was no-one. Word is that turnout has been abysmal...

[displaced]

Managed to find the polling station for where I'm living now, and just got back from voting.

Pretty much knew who I'd vote for – there's virtually nothing on this page (http://europe.libdems.org.uk/full-manifesto/putting-europes-house-in-order) I disagree with.

[Scepticalscribe]

This is the first election in my life since I reached the age where I could legally cast a ballot that I shall not vote, and that is not by choice. I take the right - a hard-won and precious one - to vote very seriously. For most of recorded history, most men and virtually all women lacked the franchise and had no say whatsoever in choosing those who ruled them. The right to select rulers, and representatives, and equally, the right to dismiss them at the polls is a precious privilege and cherished right and should be exercised whenever an election is called.

Unfortunately, my country does not believe in the provision of the postal ballot for its citizens living and working abroad. I wish it did. As it happens, I have worked as an election monitor for the OSCE (sent by my Govt) in the former Balkans and former Soviet Union on many occasions over the past decade and a half, and have seen lines of people patiently and quietly queuing outside polling stations hours before they opened, in sub-zero temperatures, in countries where the right to have a say in the selection of Governments had only recently been won. It is a moving experience.

Cheers and good luck

[holidaypf]

What is a spoilt ballot?

To satisfy purely emotional and juvenile impulses, I'd love to be handed a marker and a blank sheet of paper as an alternative ballot. I could then proceed to slap the back of my left hand down on the paper, with middle finger appropriately extended, and outline as needed. :D

[Jaffa Cake]

A spoilt ballot is one that's not counted as it isn't filled in correctly - for example, someone may put a cross beside more candidates than they're supposed to by mistake.

However, some folk choose to intentionally put in a spoilt ballot, perhaps to protest if, say, they're dissatisfied with the candidates offered. They might put a cross through the whole form, or write a message on it. Obviously the vote doesn't count, but it's a way to express your opinion rather than sitting at home and not being arsed. If there are a large number of intionally spoilt votes in a ballot, it's an indication that a section of the electorate aren't happy for one reason or another...

[gathart]

Voted yesterday. I owe the EU a lot thanks to the open border. So much easier to work in the UK. Hope we can get rid of Brown and a stronger leader will arise to take on the conservatives.

[djellison]

Just voted, and I noticed the polling station was eeeeerily quiet.

I arrived - no one in the car park - walked in - chatted to the security guy, the three people there waiting for voters - got my form - voted - put it in the box - left. Didn't see a single other voter. Obviously the people running the station are not going to say much - but they did say "Yeah - a little quiet"

The thing with Euro elections is, I'd wager, most people in the UK consider it entirely irrelevant, less relevant even than normal elections.

[NATO]

The thing with Euro elections is, I'd wager, most people in the UK consider it entirely irrelevant, less relevant even than normal elections.

You're absolutely right, but I think recent events have made that turnout even lower. I'm actually looking forward to the results of this election - the turnout % and whether people have voted differently, away from the big parties. We shall see :)

[bartelby]

The polling station near me was quite busy. Considering it was only EU elections I was quite surprised...

[thecritix]

Voted yesterday. I owe the EU a lot thanks to the open border. So much easier to work in the UK. Hope we can get rid of Brown and a stronger leader will arise to take on the conservatives.

and with the greatest of respect... I do not mean this personally..
but you are the reason we need out.

2.2 million people in the UK unemployed and more like yourself coming in thanks to open borders..

There at least needs to be some kind of restriction on it.

[Simplesimon101]

Our independent candidate here in the South West of England was Katie Hopkins from the Apprentice. :eek:

http://gwebusinesswestchambers.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/katie-hopkins-730635.jpg

[arkitect]

and with the greatest of respect... I do not mean this personally..
:rolleyes:
but you are the reason we need out.
2.2 million people in the UK unemployed and more like yourself coming in thanks to open borders..
There at least needs to be some kind of restriction on it.
Wow. Why so much hate (or is that fear?) for "da forinners"?

I am still wondering why you didn't vote yesterday because there was at least one party that would have dearly loved your vote…

[thecritix]

:rolleyes:

Wow. Why so much hate (or is that fear?) for "da forinners"?

I am still wondering why you didn't vote yesterday because there was at least one party that would have dearly loved your vote…

Now that's not fair...

The fact is, we are overpopulated.. we have high unemployment.

It really isn't racist or discriminatory to talk about immigration.

There should be more restrictions than to say anyone in Europe can enter the UK, it's not fair to those who are unemployed, we contribute enough to the EU already we ought to have a renegotiation of our relationship with europe.

What's Maggie up to? :D

[robbieduncan]

The fact is, we are overpopulated.. we have high unemployment.

A lot of the unemployed are unwilling to do the jobs that a lot of the immigrants from Eastern Europe are doing. They are unwilling to clean office blocks in the middle of the night, get out in fields picking veg or any number of other relatively low paid/manual jobs. Without immigration we, as a country, would struggle.

[BoyBach]

The fact is, we are overpopulated.. we have high unemployment.

It really isn't racist or discriminatory to talk about immigration.

There should be more restrictions than to say anyone in Europe can enter the UK, it's not fair to those who are unemployed, we contribute enough to the EU already we ought to have a renegotiation of our relationship with europe.


There are more Britons working abroad in the EU than there are EU nationals working in Britain.

What's good for the goose...

[Nickygoat]

There are more Britons working abroad in the EU than there are EU nationals working in Britain.

What's good for the goose...

Bingo.

Maybe we should also ask the 1.5m British born citizens in Australia to come back, or the other 4m who've emigrated.

[Queso]

There are more Britons working abroad in the EU than there are EU nationals working in Britain.

What's good for the goose...
Yep, but when you're a little Englander and scared of people speaking other languages the last thing you'll think of doing is taking advantage of that two-way street.

And of course those of us who do happily go and work or live on the Continent aren't really British anyway. Our views don't matter because we're turning our back on our heritage....or something :rolleyes:

[Tom B.]

I voted for the Liberal Democrats. They seem the closest to my own personal opinions on the EU and such.

[Lee1404]

I hope all of the MacRumors members in the EU are out voting today. If you don't vote then I hope you won't complain about anything the European Parliament does for it's next term!

I voted on my way to work. I have to admit I wasn't too impressed with the choice on offer but I managed to find a party to vote for.

Edit: it seems that only us (the UK) and the Dutch are voting today with the rest to follow over the next three days...

I exercised my democratic right to NOT vote and happily retain the privilege of complaining if I disagree with the elected members actions or policies. :)

[opinioncircle]

Well, over here in France, two candidates got at it last night, insulting one another on live T.V. (Daniel Cohn Bendit and François Bayrou). We sure know how to party in France =D....

I'm likely to go with the Environmentalists on this one, they're the ones that make the most sense to me...

[Henri Gaudier]

Here in France, voting only starts on Sunday. I've just received the political propositions by mail, and so far, NONE has convinced me.

The literature from the NPA (New Anti-Capitalist Party) & Alliance Ecologiste Indepéndante looked strong. Will probably go the latter for the anti-vivisection, OGM (GM food) stance. F the UMPalumpas! Oh and the FN (National Front) too!

[Scepticalscribe]

Yep, but when you're a little Englander and scared of people speaking other languages the last thing you'll think of doing is taking advantage of that two-way street.

And of course those of us who do happily go and work or live on the Continent aren't really British anyway. Our views don't matter because we're turning our back on our heritage....or something :rolleyes:

Agree completely with this.

:rolleyes:

Wow. Why so much hate (or is that fear?) for "da forinners"?

I am still wondering why you didn't vote yesterday because there was at least one party that would have dearly loved your vote…

Indeed, well phrased.

A lot of the unemployed are unwilling to do the jobs that a lot of the immigrants from Eastern Europe are doing. They are unwilling to clean office blocks in the middle of the night, get out in fields picking veg or any number of other relatively low paid/manual jobs. Without immigration we, as a country, would struggle.

Absolutely spot on, and all too true.
I exercised my democratic right to NOT vote and happily retain the privilege of complaining if I disagree with the elected members actions or policies. :)

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on this. The right to vote was hard won and should be cherished and used. As I pointed out in an earlier post, for most of recorded history most people had no say whatsoever in choosing who ruled them, and the idea of the right to dismiss rulers was viewed as insane by rulers who saw themselves as divinely appointed. Even now, large parts of the world deny their people a say in choosing those who govern, and others all too readily roll back hard-won rights and run fraudulent elections.

Democratic freedoms, rights and privileges - all of which are recent and hard-won rights, even in the democratic western world, ought to be actively used, and an active engaged citizenship (as opposed to the servility expected from subjects) rightly keeps rulers in check.

Cheers

[takao]

Now that's not fair...

The fact is, we are overpopulated.. we have high unemployment.

It really isn't racist or discriminatory to talk about immigration.

There should be more restrictions than to say anyone in Europe can enter the UK, it's not fair to those who are unemployed, we contribute enough to the EU already we ought to have a renegotiation of our relationship with europe.

get off the very high idiocy horse ... whenever there is some EU budget talks/negotiation the UK gets a god damn exception for this or that and what else not they can make up ... and the money the Uk saves the other countries have to pay ... and then they turn around and complain about the EU on every single occasion

(for fact: germany per capita pays more than three as much as you... heck even italy pays more than the UK
and the netherlands who are only 1/3 of your size population size pay more _in absolute numbers_


the only country worse with that behavior is irland who the last 5 years should have been a netto-paying country already

[Dagless]

I voted.

But have we got a link for these immigrant vs emigrant figures? Just out of curiosity more than anything (I'm sort of from an immigrant family, my grandfather was a Polish POW in WW2).

[Scepticalscribe]

get off the very high idiocy horse ... whenever there is some EU budget talks/negotiation the UK gets a god damn exception for this or that and what else not they can make up ... and the money the Uk saves the other countries have to pay ... and then they turn around and complain about the EU on every single occasion

(for fact: germany per capita pays more than three as much as you... heck even italy pays more than the UK
and the netherlands who are only 1/3 of your size population size pay more _in absolute numbers_


the only country worse with that behavior is irland who the last 5 years should have been a netto-paying country already

I'm Irish, and unfortunately, there is more than a bit of truth in that observation. At least, we did create an open market for labour, and it has allowed a breath of fresh air - culturally, socially, not to mention economically - into what used to be a pretty claustrophobic, Catholic and culturally suffocating country.

Cheers and good luck

[Eraserhead]

we have high unemployment

Er, no we don't. Our rate is currently 7.1% according to this weeks Economist, by contrast Germany's is 8.3%, France is 8.9%, Greece is 8.1%, Spain's is 18.1% and Poland's is 11.0%. Out of the big countries only Italy is lower at 6.9%, and not by much.

Out of the EU countries the Economist mentions only the Netherlands, Denmark and Austria have lower rates of unemployment (though they are all significantly better at around 4% each.). Also for comparison the US rate is currently 8.9%.

Given that we have born the burnt of the financial crisis by having the city of London we have done remarkably well on unemployment.

[takao]

and my voting duty is done ;)

though the choices here were rather idiotic .. simply too much arguments about austria specific stuff which simply this election isn't about with the big partys and the other are either idiots and way too "anti-EU" for a EU election

so my choices were down to "the greens" and "young liberals" ... the former were too concerned with fighting within their own party before the elections so i went with the latter which is mostly students but at least their program makes sense and is positive
though they have no chance at all of breaking the 5,5% barrier

[xUKHCx]

We all knew this was coming. Moved to the PRSI.

[blackfox]

Illuminating thread...it would seem that our European brethren have more in common with the Yanks than one might have thought.

[Eraserhead]

Illuminating thread...it would seem that our European brethren have more in common with the Yanks than one might have thought.

We have the same root culture and we are both democracies - so it shouldn't be a surprise ;).

[Jaffa Cake]

Rather depressingly, the BNP have won a seat in Yorkshire and the Humber – their first in the European Parliament.

[Nickygoat]

Rather depressingly, the BNP have won a seat in Yorkshire and the Humber – their first in the European Parliament.

I was just about to say that.

I don't think its depressing; its disgraceful :(

EDIT: BNP get 10%, the lack of postal votes is being blamed.

[OllyW]

I was just about to say that.

I don't think its depressing; its disgraceful :(

EDIT: BNP get 10%, the lack of postal votes is being blamed.

I'm blaming the 120,000 idiots who voted for the BNP. :(

[djellison]

They got a councillor not far from here in Coalville as well. Utterly disgusting.

[Eraserhead]

EDIT: BNP get 10%, the lack of postal votes is being blamed.

Its down to 6.5% now - but they got 2 seats :(.

[arkitect]

Its down to 6.5% now - but they got 2 seats :(.

What miserable news to start the week with. :(

[remmy]

I'm blaming the 120,000 idiots who voted for the BNP. :(

You can't blame them, voting for a legal party, think what a crap choice you have before you, Labour, Tory or Lib Dem and then I guess you see why the BNP got those votes.

[djellison]

You can't blame them, voting for a legal party, think what a crap choice you have before you, Labour, Tory or Lib Dem and then I guess you see why the BNP got those votes.

Sorry - no.

IF the option is

Crap
Crap
Crap
Evil Racist Bastards...

There still is no choice - you vote for Crap, or you spoil your ballot, or you don't vote. There is NO justification of ANY sort to vote for something like the BNP.

What these evil bastards have done is turn 8% of this nations voters into racists. I'm ashamed of that.

[robbieduncan]

It's not like there were only 4 choices on the ballot paper. There were plenty of other choices. Those who voted BNP did so because the support that view point. Our country is 6.5% bigoted racist.

[remmy]

I still dont believe it is that bad, the desperate and angry vote for the BNP, allot are voting to piss of the political elite, I do hope that if there is a decent political party with a decent leader then there gains will be reversed.

[edesignuk]

It's not like there were only 4 choices on the ballot paper. There were plenty of other choices. Those who voted BNP did so because the support that view point. Our country is 6.5% bigoted racist.Indeed. Crappy day to be British :rolleyes: :(

[paddy]

Not looking like Declan Ganley will get a seat :D

[Jaffa Cake]

Indeed. Crappy day to be British :rolleyes: :(Mr Brons is one of the MEPs elected to represent me in Brussels. I can't tell you how embarrassed and disappointed that makes me feel.

[arkitect]

"British jobs for British workers"
Gordon Brown, September 2007

Gordon obviously didn't think that one through…

Once he had kicked that particular ball on to the political field the Far Right grabbed it and ran and ran and… scored.

[BoyBach]

On Saturday we celebrated the extraordinary bravery of the men who fought and died to defeat Fascism. A few hours later we send two neo-Nazi's to the European Parliament. :(

[Queso]

It's not like there were only 4 choices on the ballot paper. There were plenty of other choices. Those who voted BNP did so because the support that view point. Our country is 6.5% bigoted racist.
The people who voted were 6.5% bigoted racist.

Most people appear to have stayed away completely.

[robbieduncan]

The people who voted were 6.5% bigoted racist.

Most people appear to have stayed away completely.

This is very true. It is reasonable to assume that some of those who did not vote might would have voted BNP if forced to vote, although we have no way of knowing what the results would have been if we had managed a 100% turnout. As our actual turnout was nearer 30% we can say with certainty that about 1.95% of the UK population are bigoted racists and that we don't know if about 70% of them are or are not.

Edit: whilst the BNP are repugnant and certainly racist I think calling them Neo-Nazis is very wrong.

[remmy]

Saw this interesting fact on the BBC. Less people voted for the BNP than 2004.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/nickrobinson/2009/06/fewer_votes_for.html

[xUKHCx]

This is very true. It is reasonable to assume that some of those who did not vote might would have voted BNP if forced to vote, although we have no way of knowing what the results would have been if we had managed a 100% turnout. As our actual turnout was nearer 30% we can say with certainty that about 1.95% of the UK population are bigoted racists and that we don't know if about 70% of them are or are not.

While I agree it is not possible to tell you could argue that the amount of people who turned up to vote was representative (the whole point of an election :)).

Also late last night when the first seat went to the BNP Nick Robinson said that there was evidence to suggest those who were likely to vote for a more extreme party had greater determination to vote than those who might vote for a main stream party. Thus with the lack of the postal vote those people who might have voted for a main stream party did not, skewing the result towards the extreme parties.

Sign the petition if you feel strongly against the BNP:
http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/page/s/notinmyname


The BNP won a council seat in my local council, only by 27 votes above Labour. I am so annoyed at Labour for getting to the stage where the BNP is considered to be a better choice then them. I personally have never voted for labour but felt that I had to in my locals just to try and stop the BNP. The area in my council that voted for the BNP is heavily white and poor. No surprise there.

[BoyBach]

Edit: whilst the BNP are repugnant and certainly racist I think calling them Neo-Nazis is very wrong.


Brons is the former chairman of the National Front - The Real BNP. (http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/the-real-bnp/Andrew-Brons.php)

Nick Griffin is a holocaust denier with a conviction for incitement to racial hatred who describes Asian and black Britons as "racial foreigners" and called for a "bloodless genocide".

I believe in calling a spade a spade and no amount of sharp suits and smooth words (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfwdNAT8sWU&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fshanecroucher%2Ewordpress%2Ecom%2F2009%2F05%2F29%2Fnick%2Dgriffins%2Dhidden%2Dagen da%2F&feature=player_embedded) change the fact that the BNP are neo-Nazi's.

[neiltc13]

I don't support the BNP but they definitely have the right to exist in a democracy. The BBC's attitude (and in particular Nick Robinson's) is absolutely unacceptable for a publicly funded institution. Their dirt smearing against anything which is even slightly to the right (and away from their centre-left Labour views) should be investigated by Ofcom.

I am somewhat pleased that BNP won some seats - it's finally forcing Labour into thinking about and discussing the issue of immigration, which until this point was unspoken and completely ignored by them unless of course we were touting the "diversity" of the country.

[WinterMute]

It's only been the efforts of the main parties to shame people into not voting BNP in the past that has kept them out.

Unfortunately there is still a strong "little England" movement in the UK, mainly in England but elsewhere to. This section of society is racist and does want to see expulsions and boarder controls on immigrants, as well as the removal of state benefits for immigrants.

There's no point denying it, England, for all it's government's and intelligensia's proclamations is still a basically racist country.

The reason the BNP gained ground is that these people no longer fear the consequences of voting for fascists, which speak volumes for the failure of the main parties.

I was 4 BNP canvassers in Lewisham a while back, they only had 1 neck between them.

[djellison]

I don't support the BNP but they definitely have the right to exist in a democracy.

Yes. They do not, however, have a right to incite racial hatred. That is illegal. That is what they do.

[remmy]

It's only been the efforts of the main parties to shame people into not voting BNP in the past that has kept them out.

Unfortunately there is still a strong "little England" movement in the UK, mainly in England but elsewhere to. This section of society is racist and does want to see expulsions and boarder controls on immigrants, as well as the removal of state benefits for immigrants.

There's no point denying it, England, for all it's government's and intelligensia's proclamations is still a basically racist country.

The reason the BNP gained ground is that these people no longer fear the consequences of voting for fascists, which speak volumes for the failure of the main parties.

I was 4 BNP canvassers in Lewisham a while back, they only had 1 neck between them.

As I pointed out earlier less people voted for the BNP than before, despite promises of people voting for them as some sort of revenge to the main parties

The main reason they got those two seats is because less people voted, or voted labour. I was expecting higher amount of BNP voters.

[Don't panic]

and with the greatest of respect... I do not mean this personally..
but you are the reason we need out.

2.2 million people in the UK unemployed and more like yourself coming in thanks to open borders..

There at least needs to be some kind of restriction on it.

so you'd be ok if all the british working abroad would be forced to go back to the UK, because they are "stealing" other people rightful jobs? you know, the two-way street and all..
and assuming the numbers match up (i really have no idea how the 'balance' of expatriate workers works out. anyone knows?) i would be inclined to believe that the quality (and pay) of the average job a british citizen performs in europe is far superior than that that that a EU worker performs in the UK.

[firestarter]

I agree... at the heart of the BNP is an evil and racist core.

But the support for them underscores the gradual disenfranchising of the normal English worker by the Labour government.

Whether it be the West Lothian Question (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Lothian_question) - the power of Scottish MPs over England, the undemocratic nature of the European Parliament or the benefit culture created by Labour; where taxes increase only to be handed out to whatever interest group Labour favours, this demographic do have some justifiable anger at their current situation.

The BNP is odeous... but their success is the fault of the Labour party who have betrayed their traditional voters.

As I pointed out earlier less people voted for the BNP than before, despite promises of people voting for them as some sort of revenge to the main parties


You can keep on repeating this meaningless statistic... but the people have spoken. It's no commiseration that the BNP vote is down if all other votes are down more. Their percentage polled is up and they now have two MEPs.

[peskaa]

I personally think the BNP are a waste of space, racist, ignorant morons with a mindset that belongs in Germany during the 1930s. Call them what you will, but they're basically neo-Nazis with the aim to racially segregate the UK (just like the Nazis wanted to racially segregate the world into Aryan and non-Aryan). The BNP try and hide their racism behind issues such as "immigration" and other such acceptable terms, but ultimately they're just sugar coating.

I'm glad less people voted for the BNP this time round, but dismayed by the fact that the drop in Labour's vote has let them get two MEPs. I'm hoping that by the next election, sense will have been seen and that they'll lose those seats - in essence, the lesson will be learned.


As for why people vote BNP in the first place? Ignorance to an extent. Yes, we may need to have a discussion over immigration and perhaps changes to the system, and people who believe this then see that the BNP are actively trying to "do something" about it, without fully looking into their policies. Oh, and then there's the actual racists who don't want non-white people in the UK.

[remmy]

You can keep on repeating this meaningless statistic... but the people have spoken. It's no commiseration that the BNP vote is down if all other votes are down more. Their percentage polled is up and they now have two MEPs.

Hardly call it meaningless, I have agreed with pretty much everything you have written, yet how come more people didnt vote for them despite everything you have listed. More people luckily have gone for UKIP or some other party.

[firestarter]

Hardly call it meaningless, I have agreed with pretty much everything you have written.

I just think there's a real danger in writing the BNP off, and ignoring the large number of votes they're getting - and I find this 'oh well, it's not as bad as I thought, they got less votes than expected' approach worrying.

There is a disenfranchisement amongst ordinary working people, and the mainstream parties ignore this at their peril.

[Jaffa Cake]

...ignorant morons...That's the thing though... the folk running the party aren't ignorant morons. Xenophobes yes, bigots certainly – but the BNP are actually quite smart, and are now well experienced in smoke screening the extreme aspects of their manifesto with perfectly reasonable policies designed to appeal to the average man on the street.

They shouldn't be underestimated – apathy and complacency have worked in their favour in these elections, let's not make the same mistake when a General Election comes around.

[Consultant]

Sweden's pirate party wins surprise Euro seat:

A Swedish political party which wants to legalize file-sharing on the Internet scored a surprise victory Sunday when it took a seat in the European parliament.

Pirate Party supporters celebrate the party's surprise victory in Sweden.

The Pirate Party won 7.1 percent of the Swedish vote to claim one of the country's 18 seats in the European parliament.

LOL

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/06/08/pirate.party.eu.win/index.html

[peskaa]

That's the thing though... the folk running the party aren't ignorant morons. Xenophobes yes, bigots certainly – but the BNP are actually quite smart, and are now well experienced in smoke screening the extreme aspects of their manifesto with perfectly reasonable policies designed to appeal to the average man on the street.

They shouldn't be underestimated – apathy and complacency have worked in their favour in these elections, let's not make the same mistake when a General Election comes around.

I agree with you there, I was more meaning their ignorant views regarding such things as the holocaust... In terms of politics, they're quite shrewd.

[neiltc13]

Yes. They do not, however, have a right to incite racial hatred. That is illegal. That is what they do.

Are you going to provide some links to examples or just use a blanket statement like the mass media does?

[MOFS]

Are you going to provide some links to examples or just use a blanket statement like the mass media does?

Well, Nick Griffin was convicted in 1998 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/programmes/2001/bnp_special/membership/organisers/paul_ballard.stm) for doing just that. He has also blamed the UK's drugs problems on Islamic immigrants (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23450274-details/BBC+in+race+row+after+leader+blames+Muslims+for+Britain%27s+drug+problems/article.do), and doesn't agree with mixed race families.

[firestarter]

Yes. They do not, however, have a right to incite racial hatred. That is illegal. That is what they do.

Are you going to provide some links to examples or just use a blanket statement like the mass media does?

From the current BNP Constitution (http://bnp.org.uk/Constitution%209th%20Ed%20Sep%202005.pdf):

"The British National Party stands for the preservation of the national and ethnic character of the British people and is wholly opposed to any form of racial integration between British and non-European peoples. It is therefore committed to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring, by legal changes, negotiation and consent, the overwhelmingly white makeup of the British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948."

[Eraserhead]

It's not like there were only 4 choices on the ballot paper. There were plenty of other choices. Those who voted BNP did so because the support that view point. Our country is 6.5% bigoted racist.

Its true that there were many, many other choices.

[MOFS]

Its true that there were many, many other choices.

Like Scargill's Socialist Labour Party if you thought Labour were too far right, the Greens if you didn't think they were green enough, or the Conservatives if they weren't right enough. The BNP are a one issue party, and unfortunately 6.5% of the voting population agree with that issue, as warped and wrong as it is.:(

[Queso]

On the plus side I do think the amount of exposure the BNP's policies did receive, especially from such unlikely sources as The Sun newspaper, did shift a lot of their expected support to UKIP.

It could have been much worse.

[Schtumple]

Sweden's pirate party wins surprise Euro seat:

A Swedish political party which wants to legalize file-sharing on the Internet scored a surprise victory Sunday when it took a seat in the European parliament.

Pirate Party supporters celebrate the party's surprise victory in Sweden.

The Pirate Party won 7.1 percent of the Swedish vote to claim one of the country's 18 seats in the European parliament.

LOL

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/06/08/pirate.party.eu.win/index.html

I saw the piratebay had links plastered on their site for a few days before the vote, good on them, fight the power!

[blackfox]

Sweden's pirate party wins surprise Euro seat:

A Swedish political party which wants to legalize file-sharing on the Internet scored a surprise victory Sunday when it took a seat in the European parliament.

Pirate Party supporters celebrate the party's surprise victory in Sweden.

The Pirate Party won 7.1 percent of the Swedish vote to claim one of the country's 18 seats in the European parliament.

LOL

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/06/08/pirate.party.eu.win/index.html

I was also going to post about this. From my perspective, this is kinda surreal and quite hilarious.

[MacAnkka]

Let's have a little look at the Pirate Party. This is what they are about (from their site (http://www.piratpartiet.se/international/english)):
Reform of copyright law
The official aim of the copyright system has always been to find a balance in order to promote culture being created and spread. Today that balance has been completely lost, to a point where the copyright laws severely restrict the very thing they are supposed to promote. The Pirate Party wants to restore the balance in the copyright legislation.
I believe they have a point here.
An abolished patent system
Pharmaceutical patents kill people in third world countries every day. They hamper possibly life saving research by forcing scientists to lock up their findings pending patent application, instead of sharing them with the rest of the scientific community. The latest example of this is the bird flu virus, where not even the threat of a global pandemic can make research institutions forgo their chance to make a killing on patents.

The Pirate Party has a constructive and reasoned proposal for an alternative to pharmaceutical patents. It would not only solve these problems, but also give more money to pharmaceutical research, while still cutting public spending on medicines in half. This is something we would like to discuss on a European level.
There's something wrong with the patent system, true. Pirate party's suggestions are a little bit too wild, though.
Respect for the right to privacy
Following the 9/11 event in the US, Europe has allowed itself to be swept along in a panic reaction to try to end all evil by increasing the level of surveillance and control over the entire population. We Europeans should know better. It is not twenty years since the fall of the Berlin Wall, and there are plenty of other horrific examples of surveillance-gone-wrong in Europe's modern history.
absolutely true. The recent anti-privacy laws that have been approved in Sweden lately were a big reason why Pirate party got so many votes.

This is the guy they are most likely sending to the EU parliament:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Engström

Having someone in the EU Parliament who is interested in reminding the rest of the people in charge when copyright, patent and privacy laws are going in to the wrong direction doesn't sound that surreal and hilarious (or worthy of LOLs) to me.

(just reminding people that the Pirate party isn't just a bunch of young copyright infringers that want to get entertainment without paying. There are actually some sane people there, too)

[djellison]

how come more people didnt vote for them

Proportionally, more did. There was less voter turn out across the board - but the BNP retained more voters than others. They made gains. Britain has elected them to positions of power. This is a WORSE situation than ever before.

And neiltc - go and find video footage of BNP meetings. It's the dictionary definition of inciting racial hatred. That's what they do, and frankly, it's written right there in its manifesto as posted by firestarter. You can reduce that manifesto to three words. Get darkies out. It's not about immigration, it's not about 'being British'. It's racism. You do yourself no favours by coming across as an apologist for them.

[BoyBach]

I enjoyed Lee Mack's joke about the Green Party on last nights HIGNFY: "They would done better but half their voters put their ballot in the recycling bin!" :D

[opinioncircle]

In France they only kept talking about who won and not the 60+ % of people that didn't vote. It always goes like this around here, they never seem to learn...