Apple Nearing Completion of Snow Leopard? [Archive]

MacRumors

Jun 4, 2009, 02:59 PM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/04/apple-nearing-completion-of-snow-leopard/)

While the iPhone has dominated the rumor scene in the weeks leading up to WWDC, we've heard little about the status of Apple's Mac OS X Snow Leopard operating system. Snow Leopard was first announced last summer at the 2008 WWDC. At the time, Apple had announced that Snow Leopard would be delivered in "about a year".

While Apple has been making steady progress (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/05/11/snow-leopard-apis-finalized-a-step-closer-to-release/), some reports (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/01/snow-leopard-in-september-xserve-in-june-mac-pro-speed-boost-and-more/) pushed the release date of Snow Leopard back to September. We've since heard, however, that Snow Leopard may be further along than we thought. Apple is reportedly referring to internal builds of Snow Leopard as Gold Master candidates, suggesting that the operating system could be feature complete and mostly bug free. We've heard no further evidence, however, of the rumored "Marble" interface that was said to be part of the final Snow Leopard release.

Apple will likely detail its launch plans for Snow Leopard at WWDC next week.

Article Link: Apple Nearing Completion of Snow Leopard? (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/04/apple-nearing-completion-of-snow-leopard/)

NinjaHERO

Jun 4, 2009, 03:00 PM

I can't wait to see it.

thunderweb

Jun 4, 2009, 03:01 PM

Gosh I can't wait for it!

Burning Radio

Jun 4, 2009, 03:02 PM

This would be awesome! If true, it'll be nice to see what's going up against Windows 7.

designgeek

Jun 4, 2009, 03:02 PM

This is what I've been waiting for. I'm so excited to hear about snow leopard, I'll be in line to buy it when ever it comes out.

FoxyKaye

Jun 4, 2009, 03:03 PM

oc2pus

Jun 4, 2009, 03:03 PM

I'm definitely not long enough into OS X to be as "oh-my-gosh" as others are, for if MS declared a year ago, they'd be publishing a new OS 'a year from then', I'd be highly suspicious ;)

Wayfarer

Jun 4, 2009, 03:03 PM

I want it now.

themoonisdown09

Jun 4, 2009, 03:04 PM

This is what I've been waiting for. I'm so excited to hear about snow leopard, I'll be in line to buy it when ever it comes out.

I'll just order it from Apple and have it arrive at my house in a couple days than drive to my nearest Apple store (100 miles away).

Peace

Jun 4, 2009, 03:07 PM

Well it's looking like my theory of no leaks about SL is wrong. What a shame.

We will see Marble at WWDC.

fleshman03

Jun 4, 2009, 03:08 PM

Do Want!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_NQ6dP9_4MMo/ScgOBcnfE0I/AAAAAAAAANs/wgddFrl5d8U/s400/OMG!!1!.jpg

DaBrain

Jun 4, 2009, 03:10 PM

Sounds Great!

Thanks for the laugh in the opening sentence: While the iPhone has dominated the rumor scene in the weeks leading up to WWDC

The iphone has dominated this site since the iPhone inception or should we say obsession!--)))

Looking forward to see snow leopard in action! :D

mogzieee

Jun 4, 2009, 03:10 PM

If this "Marble" interface comes along I will be buying it. If not, they have some persuading to do to get me on board.

Ade-iMac-177

Jun 4, 2009, 03:11 PM

WOO!!!! come on snow leopard!!

HailToTheVictor

Jun 4, 2009, 03:12 PM

Looking forward to next week. It seems that this conference might contain a few more surprises than letdowns...

fluffy

Jun 4, 2009, 03:14 PM

If this "Marble" interface comes along I will be buying it. If not, they have some persuading to do to get me on board.What, Grand Central and OpenCL aren't enough? I can't wait for those two features, and for my CPU-hungry apps (especially Logic Pro) to start using them.

TwinCities Dan

Jun 4, 2009, 03:17 PM

I hope to see "Marble" on Monday. ;)

naman34

Jun 4, 2009, 03:18 PM

If this "Marble" interface comes along I will be buying it. If not, they have some persuading to do to get me on board.

seriously?? all you care about is the interface.. just the way it looks, rather than the gr8 way it would feel??

pdpardue

Jun 4, 2009, 03:19 PM

BornAgainMac

Jun 4, 2009, 03:20 PM

If the "Marble" interface was causing problems that would delay Snow Leopard until next year then I can see it getting the ax. I know they want to make it look different on the outside just to make the uninformed consumer feel good about $129.

MarkMS

Jun 4, 2009, 03:20 PM

OMG OMG OMG OMG!!! I hope this is all true and it's released soon.

rdowns

Jun 4, 2009, 03:23 PM

Nice.

We'll have iPhone OS 3.0 and a new iPhone this quarter.

Snow Leopard the next.

Obligatory product refreshes after that.

Then we roll into the new year with a tablet or some new form factor on the horizon.

danielwsmithee

Jun 4, 2009, 03:23 PM

I'm excited to find out how much it costs!!! I'm hoping it is free for Leopord users and $129 for Tiger users!

MarkMS

Jun 4, 2009, 03:24 PM

I still don't know why they recycled the name. it sounds so bad... everything to this point has been mono syllable names, why change it. they might as well as called it long horn. ha ha just kidding... but seriously, why go from leopard to snow leopard? I'm sure there are still a few single named cats out there. What's next Pantera Leo?

Because this isn't supposed to be a big update like Panther and Tiger were. It's just an optimized version of Leopard for Intel machines. Why waste a good single-worded name for something that just barely makes changes or adds features to consumers. Most of the new features are for developers.

milo

Jun 4, 2009, 03:24 PM

So still no official word if it's intel (or 64 bit hardware) only?

What, Grand Central and OpenCL aren't enough? I can't wait for those two features, and for my CPU-hungry apps (especially Logic Pro) to start using them.

You really think Logic is going to get any rewriting for OS related optimizations any time soon?
:D
It took them forever to actually use 4 cores on quad machines.

atmgr82

Jun 4, 2009, 03:25 PM

Per the Apple press release about its keynote, the conference will allow developers to play with what is assumed to be a nearly complete version of the OS that isn't ready for release just yet:

"“Last June, we gave developers an early look at the powerful new technologies that form the underpinnings of Mac OS X Snow Leopard,” said Bertrand Serlet, Apple’s senior vice president of Software Engineering. “At WWDC, we will be giving our developers a final Developer Preview release so they can see the incredible progress we’ve made on Snow Leopard and work with us as we move toward its final release.” "

How's that for fueling rumors?

mogzieee

Jun 4, 2009, 03:25 PM

What, Grand Central and OpenCL aren't enough? I can't wait for those two features, and for my CPU-hungry apps (especially Logic Pro) to start using them.

seriously?? all you care about is the interface.. just the way it looks, rather than the gr8 way it would feel??

Guys I totally agree there could be some awesome new power upgrades, but really, for the whole £79 (I'm guessing thats the UK price point), is it really worth the upgrade for just a standard, but not professional user like me?

Mind you, I am progressing and enjoying Final Cut loads at the moment, so the chances are I'll be upgrading anyway... but if there's that new slick Marble interface, I'm on the pre-order list. :)

milo

Jun 4, 2009, 03:26 PM

Because this isn't supposed to be a big update like Panther and Tiger were. It's just an optimized version of Leopard for Intel machines. Why waste a good single syllable name for something that just barely makes changes or adds features to consumers. Most of the new features are for developers.

If apple is trying to downplay it as not being as big an update, they're going to have to price it accordingly if they want it to sell.

And as I just asked, is it really known for sure that it's intel only?

MikhailT

Jun 4, 2009, 03:27 PM

seriously?? all you care about is the interface.. just the way it looks, rather than the gr8 way it would feel??

I am not sure if he agrees but I think a lot of people just wants a change in their environment. GUI is the best way to do that. Look at the Stacks, Expose and others that is part of the GUi that changed the way we work with our computers. For a lot of people, working with the same OS all the time, it starts to get boring. Unfortunately Apple does not allow the ability to change themes, even tho there are third party tools, they are often hacks that frequently get invalided by a simple system update.

Now anyway, I seriously am doubting that SL is in GM stage now. That's just too fast in my opinion and would seriously brings up the risk of another 10.5 "public beta" release. Didn't they just finish with the GCD APis or all APIs a month ago?

I think it is more likely Apple is making RC not GM for the Developer Preview for the WWDC.

jholzner

Jun 4, 2009, 03:29 PM

Slurpy2k8

Jun 4, 2009, 03:29 PM

It would be a massive dissapointment if SL didnt have a refreshed UI. Many elements in Leopard look ridiculous and are outdated (ie, neon aqua buttons, etc) and fundamentally not much at all has changed since Tiger. It would be an utter shame if Apple hasnt been doing some work in this regard.

MacDaddy901

Jun 4, 2009, 03:30 PM

Total newbie question: will the standard aurora desktop be replaced with a new one?

chabig

Jun 4, 2009, 03:31 PM

Apple will likely detail its launch plans for Snow Leopard at WWDC next week.

Thank you for that tremendous insight!

MikhailT

Jun 4, 2009, 03:31 PM

If apple is trying to downplay it as not being as big an update, they're going to have to price it accordingly if they want it to sell.

And as I just asked, is it really known for sure that it's intel only?

Nobody knows but there weren't a lot of evidence in the seeds that suggest PPC will be there.

I guess we'll find out next Monday.

kirreip

Jun 4, 2009, 03:32 PM

"Last June, we gave developers an early look at the powerful new technologies that form the underpinnings of Mac OS X Snow Leopard,” said Bertrand Serlet, Apple’s senior vice president of Software Engineering. “At WWDC, we will be giving our developers a final Developer Preview release so they can see the incredible progress we’ve made on Snow Leopard and work with us as we move toward its final release."

Now that sounds great to my ears! I am really looking forward to see what it really is capable of.

Stephen123

Jun 4, 2009, 03:32 PM

Personally, I'm thrilled that it is not a feature based release. All the big software companies have been adding big features at the expense of fixing and refining all the little things. In theory, Snow Leopard is a ground up scrubbing of Leopard, making it a little better in every way, rather than adding new bells and whistles. I think that's fabulous. If this is really true, we can expect significant improvements in speed, reliability, security, ease of development, consistency and compatibility.

jaw04005

Jun 4, 2009, 03:32 PM

And as I just asked, is it really known for sure that it's intel only?

It's Intel only. Why would Apple spend time optimizing for a now defunct platform? I actually won't be surprised if some of its features are 64-bit only, leaving out the first generation Intel machines (Core Duo/Solo).

It's been leaked that the file size of most built-in applications in Snow Leopard have been dramatically reduced. There are only so many ways to accomplish that. A relatively easy way would be to remove PPC code.

Shake 'n' Bake

Jun 4, 2009, 03:33 PM

Total newbie question: will the standard aurora desktop be replaced with a new one?

It may or may not be. I'll bet it isn't.

You know, Cheetah through Tiger barley had any UI changes. I really don't care about the UI too much, but I'd like to see some more customization like OS 9 had.

crees!

Jun 4, 2009, 03:35 PM

naman34

Jun 4, 2009, 03:38 PM

Ironduke

Jun 4, 2009, 03:39 PM

I want it now.

Yeah boy!

I would love to see that bite Steve Balmers ass off:mad:

Schizoid

Jun 4, 2009, 03:39 PM

Tuesday, September 1st 2009

nuckinfutz

Jun 4, 2009, 03:39 PM

Wrap this baby up with Snow Leopard iWork and Snow Leopard iLife in a new Mac Bundle Box and I'm in it to win it.

Hattig

Jun 4, 2009, 03:39 PM

I still don't know why they recycled the name. it sounds so bad... everything to this point has been mono syllable names, why change it.

Ko-di-ac (public beta of 10.0)
Cheet-ah (10.0)
Pu-ma
Jag-u-ar
Panth-er
Ti - ger
Leop - ard

You said what?

EarthDawn

Jun 4, 2009, 03:40 PM

I would honestly rather have SL come out now then a new iPhone ....

armoguy94

Jun 4, 2009, 03:43 PM

I don't like the marble look anyways! It's way too simple and plain.. especially the scroll bar.. it's just a blue gradient.

I can wait for Snow Leopard personally and I hope they release it in a very stable state. I'm curious to see if it works on hackintosh systems! If so, I'm getting a Hackintosh as my next computer.

Mal

Jun 4, 2009, 03:43 PM

It may or may not be. I'll bet it isn't.

You know, Cheetah through Tiger barley had any UI changes. I really don't care about the UI too much, but I'd like to see some more customization like OS 9 had.

Virtually 100% guarantee they'll change the desktop, but it may not be a major change. Every release has a new desktop background standard, but it's not always a major change.

As for Cheetah through Tiger having barely any UI changes, what? I look at even Panther and shudder at the missing UI elements, but go back one more to Jaguar and it looks completely different. Aqua is essentially gone, the traffic lights and the blue scrollbars being the major remnants, but you must not really remember the white windows with the pinstrips. Huge changes visually, at least to someone who spends a lot of time on the computer. Huge usability improvements between Jaguar and Panther especially, btw, and then continuing to Tiger. Leopard actually didn't make much in the way of big UI changes, just unified the appearance a lot more.

jW

ozyr

Jun 4, 2009, 03:44 PM

Bring it on! :D I truly hope it beats #7 (from you-know-who) to being released. Then again, I don't want to see a rushed system, which I think the current 10.5 was - to a point.

Peace

Jun 4, 2009, 03:46 PM

RMo

Jun 4, 2009, 03:46 PM

I still don't know why they recycled the name. it sounds so bad... everything to this point has been mono syllable names, why change it. they might as well as called it long horn. ha ha just kidding... but seriously, why go from leopard to snow leopard? I'm sure there are still a few single named cats out there. What's next Pantera Leo?

Monosyllable names? Cheeta, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Leopard? They all sound like two syllables to me. :)

Perhaps you meant "one word," but, in any case, I don't think it's a big deal. I think they chose a similar name because of the incremental, rather than revolutionary, changes they are anticipating for this release.

blakecr

Jun 4, 2009, 03:48 PM

Because this isn't supposed to be a big update like Panther and Tiger were. It's just an optimized version of Leopard for Intel machines. Why waste a good single syllable name for something that just barely makes changes or adds features to consumers. Most of the new features are for developers.

Is not single syllable. Ti-gher Pan-thar Leo-perd For-gev-her

brianus

Jun 4, 2009, 03:49 PM

Jag-u-ar
You said what?

Silly Brit. Jag-uar is two syllables :p

ltldrummerboy

Jun 4, 2009, 03:50 PM

I'm thinking that they'll announce new MacBooks and MBPs shipping in a month; Snow Leopard preinstalled.

milo

Jun 4, 2009, 03:50 PM

It's Intel only.

Source? Sounds like nothing but more of the same speculation we've had for months. Thanks, but I can make wild guesses just as well as anyone else, I was asking if there was anything concrete that I had missed.

It's been leaked that the file size of most built-in applications in Snow Leopard have been dramatically reduced. There are only so many ways to accomplish that. A relatively easy way would be to remove PPC code.

And shortly after that was leaked, it was revealed that all those smaller apps did have the PPC code (which omitting saves very little space) and instead left out all the foreign language translations (which saves exactly the amount of space that was saved). Thanks for playing.

Makindosh

Jun 4, 2009, 03:51 PM

I still don't know why they recycled the name. it sounds so bad... everything to this point has been mono syllable names, why change it. they might as well as called it long horn. ha ha just kidding... but seriously, why go from leopard to snow leopard? I'm sure there are still a few single named cats out there. What's next Pantera Leo?

I don't really care how they name it. As long as it works well for me. And also, I don't really care about how it looks, it already looks better than Windows. All I care is performance and quality.

cantthinkofone

Jun 4, 2009, 03:51 PM

Please be bug-free, and demonstrate that Apple has paid as much attention to its OS as it has the iPhone.

YES. Above all things.

jaw04005

Jun 4, 2009, 03:52 PM

I still think they'll hold it until after Windows 7 is released.

Past Mac OS X release dates:

Public Beta, September 13, 2000
10.0 Cheetah, March 24, 2001
10.1 Puma, September 25, 2001
10.2 Jaguar, August 23, 2002
10.3 Panther, October 24, 2003
10.4 Tiger, April 29, 2005
10.5 Leopard, October 26, 2007

According to Paul Thurrott, Microsoft pushed back the release date of Windows 7 a week from the 15th to the 22nd of October.

Do they know something? Who knows, but it's a sure bet they won't release their new operating system within the same week due to media coverage.

If I was Apple I would release it in late August to get the Back to School crowd or early November to have the "newest" operating system.

queshy

Jun 4, 2009, 03:52 PM

My prediction: SL will ship towards the end of 2009. This is a WWDC all about iPhone, unfortunately.

dmmcintyre3

Jun 4, 2009, 03:55 PM

PPC support. Just don't forget it.

This is a WWDC all about iPhone, unfortunately.

No. Mac stuff please. I couldn't care less about the iPhone.

/dev/toaster

Jun 4, 2009, 03:55 PM

to all those people wanting the 'marble' interface, basically u want a new theme though i cant understand y its so important... they've already added more functionality. multilevel stacks n stuff, more quicklook, high q icons... i doubt they'll change the ui much more. maybe just a new wallpaper would b all the changes the bring, or i think they'll also make the dock look slightly better. ad please to ppl who think marble can delay things. cmon its just something so cosmetic. apple doesnt even take it seriously (hence no themes!)

Part of the reason I use a Mac is because of how slick and nice the interface is. I work long hours and then when I am home I also work long hours on side projects. Spending the amount of time I do in front of a machine, I want the interface to look good.

I couldn't get excited about work using a Windows box. Its so dreadful and reduces my productivity greatly.

I use Coda, not because it is the best editor for PHP ... but because its the best interface for my needs and does almost everything I need.

UI is a very very big deal to for me. I can not use a very ugly interface. I have stopped using products before because of interface.

Both of these cars http://lkp.cc/4BB5j http://lkp.cc/4BC03 serve the same purpose, they get you front point A to point B. Now you see where I am going with this ?

Apple takes interface very seriously. I hope you were joking saying they don't. Although Leopard does have a lot that doesn't totally match from application to application, most of the interfaces are very well thought out. Very smooth and very easy on the eyes.

Apple doesn't support themes because they don't enjoy someone coming along and taking a **** on their interface. There was a few really nice interfaces for jail broken iPhones, but 95% of those interfaces were total crap and made the phone look down right awful.

Apple wants you to be able to walk over to any Mac and feel comfortable using it. Go check out 10 peoples PCs. Sure, they can customize the crap out of it ... using downright awful fonts and icons that make no sense. For example, the people who will replace all system icons with icons from their favorite TV show. Apple wouldn't want someone to see that and go, oh crap what the hell is this ?!

pohl

Jun 4, 2009, 03:56 PM

I still don't know why they recycled the name. it sounds so bad... everything to this point has been mono syllable names, why change it.

I don't know how to say this gently, but Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther, Tiger, and Leopard all have more than one syllable.

LagunaSol

Jun 4, 2009, 03:56 PM

Silly Brit. Jag-uar is two syllables :p

Indeed. When are those people over there going to learn to speak proper English? :D

Eidorian

Jun 4, 2009, 03:59 PM

Good here some news that isn't about the iPhone.

NinjaHERO

Jun 4, 2009, 04:02 PM

Diaresi

Jun 4, 2009, 04:02 PM

Indeed. When are those people over there going to learn to speak proper English? :D

Don't get me started on you lot :p I have enough of an issue with American companies (Apple!!) giving language options as:

English
International English

Err... you're the non-national ones ;) :D

Bubba Satori

Jun 4, 2009, 04:04 PM

It's Intel only. Why would Apple spend time optimizing for a now defunct platform? I actually won't be surprised if some of its features are 64-bit only, leaving out the first generation Intel machines (Core Duo/Solo).

It's been leaked that the file size of most built-in applications in Snow Leopard have been dramatically reduced. There are only so many ways to accomplish that. A relatively easy way would be to remove PPC code.

Agreed. I hope it's 64 bit only, too.

I am so sick and tired of having to explain to my customers about the difference between 64 bit and 32 bit cpus and operating systems. At least I don't have to explain to my Apple customers the 93 different versions of that steaming pile of Vista. :D

crees!

Jun 4, 2009, 04:05 PM

Source? Sounds like nothing but more of the same speculation we've had for months. Thanks, but I can make wild guesses just as well as anyone else, I was asking if there was anything concrete that I had missed.

And shortly after that was leaked, it was revealed that all those smaller apps did have the PPC code (which omitting saves very little space) and instead left out all the foreign language translations (which saves exactly the amount of space that was saved). Thanks for playing.

http://www.macnn.com/articles/08/06/11/snow.leopard.intel.only/

NinjaHERO

Jun 4, 2009, 04:06 PM

Don't get me started on you lot :p I have enough of an issue with American companies (Apple!!) giving language options as:

English
International English

Err... you're the non-national ones ;) :D

LMAO:D......you said us lot. Awesome.

Eric S.

Jun 4, 2009, 04:09 PM

If Snow Leopard comes out soon then I'm really going to wait until 10.6.2 for a relatively bug-free version.

And as I just asked, is it really known for sure that it's intel only?

No, but I expect we'll find out for sure next week.

milo

Jun 4, 2009, 04:09 PM

http://www.macnn.com/articles/08/06/11/snow.leopard.intel.only/

Yeah, that just says the dev preview is intel only, nothing about final release.

Looks like still no definitive word on it - intel only is the likely guess, but still nothing more than a guess.

MacsRgr8

Jun 4, 2009, 04:11 PM

Silly Brit. Jag-uar is two syllables :p

Ha!!
Over here Leopard = Le-oh-pard :D

shanmugam

Jun 4, 2009, 04:17 PM

i would suggest september when intel release new 32nm mobile CPUs, new OS X and new multi core processors to take it.

and september beats 7 available date and gives enough fine tuning based on input from developers...

Mousse

Jun 4, 2009, 04:18 PM

I still think they'll hold it until after Windows 7 is released.

With MicroSoft's track record, I'll give Win7 a try after SP1 or SP2.:p

I'm ready for Snow Leopard now.:cool: If the promises are true, my machine will be faster just from upgrading the OS. And there are several programs I'm interested in that requires Leopard. (Still using Tiger here.:o)

inkswamp

Jun 4, 2009, 04:20 PM

Please be bug-free, although at this point, I'll take anything over Leopard Server.

Please be bug-free, and not the public Beta that was Leopard at launch.

Please be bug-free, and demonstrate that Apple has paid as much attention to its OS as it has the iPhone.

Generally speaking you have to wait until the 2nd update for any given operating system before most bugs are ironed out. That means OS X 10.x.2 or Windows SP2. Seems to be the magic update that most major OS upgrades require before things are smooth sailing. Anyone getting in on a .0 or .1 version of any major OS X update needs to be ready for a little unpredictability.

Ha!!
Over here Leopard = Le-oh-pard :D

In the U.S. South, it's "lay-uh-perd."

And I'm only slightly exaggerating.

iMacmatician

Jun 4, 2009, 04:24 PM

e've heard no further evidence, however, of the rumored "Marble" interface that was said to be part of the final Snow Leopard release. This might mean "Marble" is delayed until 10.7? I wonder if Resolution Independence will make its way to Snow Leopard or if it too will first come in 10.7.

Eidorian

Jun 4, 2009, 04:27 PM

With MicroSoft's track record, I'll give Win7 a try after SP1 or SP2.:p

I'm ready for Snow Leopard now.:cool: If the promises are true, my machine will be faster just from upgrading the OS. And there are several programs I'm interested in that requires Leopard. (Still using Tiger here.:o)Windows 7 RC 1 works fine today and so did the Beta.

I didn't encounter many problems in 10.5.0 besides Time Machine and the occasional X11 hiccup. That was ages ago though.

kepardue

Jun 4, 2009, 04:28 PM

I'm extremely anxious to see Snow Leopard demoed, but will still continue to hold my trigger finger. Mainly, because I'm running a 2.5-year-old Macbook Pro with pretty poor disk performance, especially noticed since iLife '09 came out. I'm sure this is because I upgraded the stock 5400RPM 160GB drive to one of the first 5400RPM 500GB drives that came out. When I say poor, I mean it. It takes 2 minutes to load my iPhoto library up, and when backing up my DVD's Handbrake gets maybe 5-10 FPS whereas a white plastic Macbook that's a year older with half the RAM gets 12-15fps. iMovie makes me hurt, even though I'm working on a 7200RPM Firewire 400 drive. And I just formatted and reinstalled Leopard.

IF I can convince the powers that be at the office to get a Snow Leopard family pack for the work systems I'll be able to upgrade, but I just don't think I'm going to see enough of a performance boost from even Snow Leopard to fix my speed issues.

So I'm going to wait for the i5 or i7-based iMacs to come out (in all honesty, the Macbook Pro sits docked happily at my desk 95% of the time) sell my Macbook Pro/23" Cinema Display, and upgrade to the 24" iMac with a 1TB drive or, if the fortune gods are smiling down on me, a 512GB SSD and keep my media library on an external drive that I can also use with an :apple:TV. Hopefully sometime after that Apple will release a respectable Netbook-alike that I can use to meet that other 5% that I need to be mobile.

And then, of course... I'll spend the rest of my life in the poor house, but not before walking quietly into the corner since nobody will give a hoot about anything I just wrote.

wrldwzrd89

Jun 4, 2009, 04:30 PM

This might mean "Marble" is delayed until 10.7? I wonder if Resolution Independence will make its way to Snow Leopard or if it too will first come in 10.7.
You mean "full" Resolution Independence right? We have partial support right now, in Leopard (heck, even Tiger had partial support, but it was very incomplete and buggy). Leopard's implementation is also buggy still, though not as much as Tiger's RI implementation.

iMacmatician

Jun 4, 2009, 04:34 PM

You mean "full" Resolution Independence right? We have partial support right now, in Leopard (heck, even Tiger had partial support, but it was very incomplete and buggy). Leopard's implementation is also buggy still, though not as much as Tiger's RI implementation.Yes, "full" Resolution Independence.

If Snow Leopard still comes with partial Resolution Independence, maybe we can compare the three Resolution Independences and extrapolate to when it might end up "full." :p

macuserx86

Jun 4, 2009, 04:38 PM

my Mac Pro and I are greatly looking forward to this! :D

And, for everybody angry that all the rumours are for iPhone, remember, it's always been like that. I can't remember a post iPod WWDC or MacWorld that didn't have iPhone rumours. remember the Rokr? ;)

bcortens

Jun 4, 2009, 04:39 PM

I didn't encounter many problems in 10.5.0 besides Time Machine and the occasional X11 hiccup. That was ages ago though.

Same here, I found that 10.5.0 didn't crash and I restarted mostly for those annoying quicktime updates than anything.

starflyer

Jun 4, 2009, 04:41 PM

Source? Sounds like nothing but more of the same speculation we've had for months. Thanks, but I can make wild guesses just as well as anyone else, I was asking if there was anything concrete that I had missed.

Am I missing something? Can the developer builds of SL be installed on PPC hardware? If not, how can release this if it hasn't been tested on all the hardware it will be installed on.

Eidorian

Jun 4, 2009, 04:43 PM

Same here, I found that 10.5.0 didn't crash and I restarted mostly for those annoying quicktime updates than anything.The first few 10.5.x updates seemed to bring up wireless nightmares in the MacBook Pro.

wrldwzrd89

Jun 4, 2009, 04:43 PM

The first few 10.5.x updates seemed to bring up wireless nightmares in the MacBook Pro.
Oh really? I had a MacBook Pro, and I had no problems at all with wireless with it on 10.5.anything. :p

Eidorian

Jun 4, 2009, 04:45 PM

Oh really? I had a MacBook Pro, and I had no problems at all with wireless with it on 10.5.anything. :pRemember the threads on it?

ChrisA

Jun 4, 2009, 04:47 PM

What, Grand Central and OpenCL aren't enough? I can't wait for those two features, and for my CPU-hungry apps (especially Logic Pro) to start using them.

Notice that those a two different items that will happen on different dates. Buying snow leopard will get you Grand Central and OpenCL but those features will not be used. You will have to wait longer before the apps you use use those feaures.

So I have to wonder why everyone here wants to run out and stand in line to buy SN. Why? My plan is to continue using Leopard until one day one of the apps I use is updated to take advantage of SN. Then I'll have a reason to update the OS.

I don't want to pay $129 just so I can have a different color window border around a finder window.

kepardue

Jun 4, 2009, 04:48 PM

Both of these cars http://lkp.cc/4BB5j http://lkp.cc/4BC03 serve the same purpose, they get you front point A to point B. Now you see where I am going with this ?

To be fair though, that's more of a Windows to OS X comparison than a Leopard to Snow Leopard comparison. You've already got a very sexy, very smooth car by nature of the fact that it's OS X. If all Snow Leopard does is replace a gas guzzling V8 with an energy efficient, better performing V8 in the same sexy car, I'm okay with that :-) (Note that I have virtually no interest or experience with sports cars--so here's a big "You get my point" if my analogy is totally inappropriate).

kymac

Jun 4, 2009, 04:50 PM

how long was leopard in the gold master stage before its release?

furcalchick

Jun 4, 2009, 04:55 PM

eagerly waiting for 10.6 to pep up my late 06 macbook that's still running tiger (i skipped leopard). you'll see alot of leopard skippers with core 2 duo macs in line for day one. hope it's sooner rather than later, as less and less apps are supporting 10.4 nowadays.

and for those wanting a free 10.6? yeah right. if apple discounts at all, it will be 90-100 bucks for upgrade disc and the normal 130 for full install discs.

Eric S.

Jun 4, 2009, 04:58 PM

So I have to wonder why everyone here wants to run out and stand in line to buy SN. Why?

I would guess it's for the same reason that many people rush to install updates like 10.5.7 on the day they show up in Software Update, without waiting for problems to be reported; just Apple release junkies.

Eidorian

Jun 4, 2009, 05:01 PM

Notice that those a two different items that will happen on different dates. Buying snow leopard will get you Grand Central and OpenCL but those features will not be used. You will have to wait longer before the apps you use use those feaures.

So I have to wonder why everyone here wants to run out and stand in line to buy SN. Why? My plan is to continue using Leopard until one day one of the apps I use is updated to take advantage of SN. Then I'll have a reason to update the OS.

I don't want to pay $129 just so I can have a different color window border around a finder window.It's nice to see all those features and libraries up on stage but it's pointless without the applications.

Leopard still has to deliver.

nuckinfutz

Jun 4, 2009, 05:02 PM

I predict Snow Leopard will be hard to find ...after all it is an endangered species.

MartiNZ

Jun 4, 2009, 05:02 PM

Cool, looking forward to it. Looking forward to submitting reports for the same bugs I have been submitting since Tiger shipped!

I really hope WWDC concentrates on SL. They need to make it seem more of a big deal than it appears thus far - they need coverage of the new features behind "no new features". Launch in a month would be sweet. If it coincided with iPhone 3.0 release, I'd say even sweeter. But seriously, time to focus on OS X again, and not the iPhone version.

autrefois

Jun 4, 2009, 05:08 PM

Silly Brit. Jag-uar is two syllables :p

Or as Steve Jobs used to say, Jag-wire. :D

milo

Jun 4, 2009, 05:12 PM

Am I missing something? Can the developer builds of SL be installed on PPC hardware? If not, how can release this if it hasn't been tested on all the hardware it will be installed on.

They can't. But we have no idea when the OS will actually ship, and with 10.5 they initially released it to devs intel only then released a PPC version later.

starflyer

Jun 4, 2009, 05:16 PM

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11 Safari/525.20)

Am I missing something? Can the developer builds of SL be installed on PPC hardware? If not, how can release this if it hasn't been tested on all the hardware it will be installed on.

They can't. But we have no idea when the OS will actually ship, and with 10.5 they initially released it to devs intel only then released a PPC version later.

That answers my question. Thanks!

applecultvictim

Jun 4, 2009, 05:20 PM

NT1440

Jun 4, 2009, 05:23 PM

Leopard still has to deliver.

Care to elaborate? I don't have a mac so I don't know what isn't there.

Leopard seems like an outstanding OS to me though. *shrug*

Stridder44

Jun 4, 2009, 05:33 PM

I'm hoping it is free for Leopord users and $129 for Tiger users!

You're kidding right?

wrldwzrd89

Jun 4, 2009, 05:34 PM

Remember the threads on it?
Actually, I don't. Please don't remind me though. I'd rather forget those threads ever existed.

Riemann Zeta

Jun 4, 2009, 05:34 PM

I highly doubt that this one is true. The betas that have been released are clearly not ready for prime time--for example, the 64bit kernel still requires one to boot into 'experimental mode' with Option+6+4 on every bootup. Unless Apple has been purposefully giving developers builds that were compiled 6-8 months ago, I can't see 10.6 being released before fall.

Also, considering how truly well-coded, flashy and optimized Windows 7 is, Apple is going to have a hell of a time convincing regular users to drop $129 on something that looks identical to OS 10.5. An 'optimized kernel threading model' isn't something that jumps out and bites the average consumer as being sexy, new and cool.

tobyw7

Jun 4, 2009, 05:36 PM

seriously?? all you care about is the interface.. just the way it looks, rather than the gr8 way it would feel??

If it gets the people buying it, then what difference does it make :cool: Obviously.... the whole OS is what most people like about Apple!

And it being easier to use compared to Windows.

Stridder44

Jun 4, 2009, 05:40 PM

I don't like the marble look anyways! It's way too simple and plain.. especially the scroll bar.. it's just a blue gradient.

That's because you've never actually seen the marble interface due to the fact it doesn't even exist (to the consumer) yet.

With MicroSoft's track record, I'll give Win7 a try after SP1 or SP2.:p

Said that guy who has never tried Windows 7. You probably think XP is somehow better than Vista too I'm guessing.

Snow Leopard will most likely be Intel only. I can't wait to hear the thousands of posts saying "WTF!!!! This is the downfall/end of Apple!!1!1" and "that's it, I'm going to kill my family" followed by lots of :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: faces.

tobyw7

Jun 4, 2009, 05:45 PM

You probably think XP is somehow better than Vista too I'm guessing.

Oh, it is!

Eric S.

Jun 4, 2009, 05:45 PM

I highly doubt that this one is true. The betas that have been released are clearly not ready for prime time--for example, the 64bit kernel still requires one to boot into 'experimental mode' with Option+6+4 on every bootup. Unless Apple has been purposefully giving developers builds that were compiled 6-8 months ago, I can't see 10.6 being released before fall.

Plus Apple was burned by perceptions that Leopard was not ready for prime time at its release. One would expect that they would want SL to make a better initial impression.

Snow Leopard will most likely be Intel only. I can't wait to hear the thousands of posts saying "WTF!!!! This is the downfall/end of Apple!!1!1" and "that's it, I'm going to kill my family" followed by lots of :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: faces.

Haven't we already seen those posts for a year, ever since the Intel-only reports first surfaced at last year's WWDC?

MrCrowbar

Jun 4, 2009, 05:52 PM

seriously?? all you care about is the interface.. just the way it looks, rather than the gr8 way it would feel??

That's what she said. :D

Seriously, usability usually increases with decreasing looks. Most Pro Software is ugly as sin with confusing colors and lots of controls. But once you got the hang of it, it beats everything else, even if it has less "features" that comparable stuff.

EDIT (don't wanna waste a post for this):
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/funny-pictures-cat-finds-your-lost-marbles.jpg

Peace

Jun 4, 2009, 06:00 PM

I highly doubt that this one is true. The betas that have been released are clearly not ready for prime time--for example, the 64bit kernel still requires one to boot into 'experimental mode' with Option+6+4 on every bootup. Unless Apple has been purposefully giving developers builds that were compiled 6-8 months ago, I can't see 10.6 being released before fall.

You have obviously never worked with a real developer build of SL.

For one thing you don't hold down the option key while holding 6+4 to boot into 64-bit mode. And it's not "experimental".

Internal builds are always ahead of dev. release builds. Trust me I know.

Currently the "supposed leaked build" is 10A354 right ?

I can guarantee you there are other builds around that you are not privy to. ;)

viccles

Jun 4, 2009, 06:05 PM

Oh, I sure hope its soon! I want to buy my new imac with SL on it :D

milo

Jun 4, 2009, 06:20 PM

You probably think XP is somehow better than Vista too I'm guessing.

Well, in certain ways, it IS better, specifically performance. And benchmarks bear that out. Or maybe MS has finally improved vista enough to catch up and I haven't heard about it, but that wasn't the case for at least a year.

iBug2

Jun 4, 2009, 06:22 PM

matticus008

Jun 4, 2009, 06:22 PM

And as I just asked, is it really known for sure that it's intel only?
It won't be known "for sure" until the first customer has the box in his hand. People clinging to nothing won't even believe an Apple announcement at this point.
Nobody knows but there weren't a lot of evidence in the seeds that suggest PPC will be there.
There was, and continues to be, no evidence of PPC support anywhere in Snow Leopard. The early releases contained a number of Universal applications that simply had not been rewritten. None of the major new code has been or is equipped with PPC versions (Quicktime, Finder, GC, OpenCL).

Source? Sounds like nothing but more of the same speculation we've had for months.
Technically, everything is speculation, because Apple has not officially introduced the OS. When it does, it will not be possible to miss it. Until then, nothing anyone can say is "concrete", but the situation has not changed from the beginning, with the development of major features that do not support PowerPC architecture as implemented, developer previews that simply will not and cannot run on PPC, an Intel-only kernel, and no new PPC code anywhere in the system. Anyone who needs a bigger hint than that is just fooling himself.
And shortly after that was leaked, it was revealed that all those smaller apps did have the PPC code
Source? It was "revealed" that some of the Leopard binaries were still present, and Leopard binaries are Universal. That does not provide any support for Snow Leopard being Universal. It just shows that parts of the OS had not been touched from the Leopard base.

Saying that Snow Leopard apps "have" PPC code is misleading at best and perpetuates this ridiculous rumor. As far as it is known, PowerPC is out. There is no indication that it will be present.
They can't. But we have no idea when the OS will actually ship, and with 10.5 they initially released it to devs intel only then released a PPC version later.
Source? The 10.5 beta, released over a year before the final in mid-2006, was not Intel-only. There were no developer releases prior to that. Snow Leopard is planned for release in less than a year and is still Intel-only.

Stridder44

Jun 4, 2009, 06:28 PM

Well, in certain ways, it IS better, specifically performance. And benchmarks bear that out. Or maybe MS has finally improved vista enough to catch up and I haven't heard about it, but that wasn't the case for at least a year.

And that year was 2008. Welcome to last year! Care to join us in the present?

Oh, it is!

You should try using it for more than 5 minutes on a machine that isn't 7 years old, but be sure to take off your tin-foil hat first.

armoguy94

Jun 4, 2009, 06:32 PM

nothing personal but you haven't seen the marble interface.

http://www.macaffairs.com/site/images/stories/2009/01/marbletheme.png

Is that not it? That theme is what I'm talking about. Sort of like what is in Apple's pro apps, and now transitioning to their iLife; no?

iBug2

Jun 4, 2009, 06:44 PM

Is that not it? That theme is what I'm talking about. Sort of like what is in Apple's pro apps, and now transitioning to their iLife; no?

That's just an artist sketch. Nobody knows how it'll look like.

MikhailT

Jun 4, 2009, 06:46 PM

Is that not it? That theme is what I'm talking about. Sort of like what is in Apple's pro apps, and now transitioning to their iLife; no?

That is not Marble. That's just a screenshot of some current Apple Pro software. The Mac Media is assuming that Marble will be based on something like that but it is not Marble. There is no evidence or any single bit of information about the Marble interface or even if Marble exist. Marble is just some name somebody came up with.

Peace

Jun 4, 2009, 06:55 PM

Is that not it? That theme is what I'm talking about. Sort of like what is in Apple's pro apps, and now transitioning to their iLife; no?

No. That is not what marble looks like.

Chronos1976

Jun 4, 2009, 07:11 PM

No. That is not what marble looks like.

I hope you're right. For me, Leopard got Aqua about right (finally) and I'd be happy to stick with that interface. I don't want something dark and depressing to look at (my mood is influenced by colours (certain yellows actually cause my mood to plummet as well)).

I spend a lot of time in front of my computer and the reason I switched to Mac in the first place was because of the cheery Aqua elements - I'm hoping there is one more Macbook Pro update before SL because I want to upgrade to a 17" uMBP before Aqua disappears...

danielwsmithee

Jun 4, 2009, 07:12 PM

SpitzerCR

Jun 4, 2009, 07:15 PM

snow leopard .. possible new macs it never ends.

just LET IT OUT already so i can make my purchasing decisions..

ziggyonice

Jun 4, 2009, 07:18 PM

I really just want Apple to put more on the Mac, rather than now just treating it as an afterthought. Maybe it's just because of all the iPhone hype, but I miss the days of when it was really Mac rumors we were all excited for. Hopefully WWDC will change things. Because as much as I love my iPhone, I love my Mac too.

FoxyKaye

Jun 4, 2009, 07:20 PM

Generally speaking you have to wait until the 2nd update for any given operating system before most bugs are ironed out. That means OS X 10.x.2 or Windows SP2. Seems to be the magic update that most major OS upgrades require before things are smooth sailing. Anyone getting in on a .0 or .1 version of any major OS X update needs to be ready for a little unpredictability.
Unpredictability is one thing, major installation oversights and service failures is quite another. Leopard simply didn't have enough QA behind it at launch - Apple was already running late on delivery, had taken people off of OS X and put them on to the iPhone OS, and when it hit there were no end of problems. Some of which still exist today - anybody trying to run Software Update Server in Leopard Server, or for that matter has chased around the ARD issues that come and go with Leopard Server knows this.

Likewise, there were innumerable issues with the Leopard workstation installer that a little more attention from Apple could have prevented.

I'm not looking for the perfect OS, I'm looking for Apple to care about its products.

McDughf

Jun 4, 2009, 07:30 PM

I still don't know why they recycled the name. it sounds so bad... everything to this point has been mono syllable names, why change it. ...

Wow, The Irony; You Do Realise NONE Of The Versions Of OS X Have Mono Syllable Names?

0. Chee-Tah
1. Pu-Ma
2. Jag-U-Ar
3. Pan-Ther
4. Ti-Ger
5. Le-O-Pard or Leo-Pard

But To Answer You Question, I Recall Someone Saying That Snow Leopards Are A Tougher, More Hardened Evolutions Of Leopards - Hence The Analogy...

MikhailT

Jun 4, 2009, 07:42 PM

There is no such thing as full install vs. Upgrade discs there is just discs.

There are two discs, the restore discs that comes with your mac and is locked specifically to your models and there's full retail disc. No upgrade or anything that.

Wow, The Irony; You Do Realise NONE Of The Versions Of OS X Have Mono Syllable Names?

0. Chee-Tah
1. Pu-Ma
2. Jag-U-Ar
3. Pan-Ther
4. Ti-Ger
5. Le-O-Pard or Leo-Pard

But To Answer You Question, I Recall Someone Saying That Snow Leopards Are A Tougher, More Hardened Evolutions Of Leopards - Hence The Analogy...
They are also my favorite big cats, one of the most beautiful animals in the world and they are nearly extinct which makes me a sad panda.:(

There was an episode about the Snow Leopards in the Planet Earth, I suggest everybody to watch it, especially on blu-ray.

McDughf

Jun 4, 2009, 07:43 PM

Silly Brit. Jag-uar is two syllables :p

This Is So Ironic Its Not Even Funny...

Syllables Are Sub Words That Are Accented By Vowel Sounds Or Phonetics,
Such As:

Jag - You - Are

brop52

Jun 4, 2009, 07:43 PM

Wow, The Irony; You Do Realise NONE Of The Versions Of OS X Have Mono Syllable Names?

0. Chee-Tah
1. Pu-Ma
2. Jag-U-Ar
3. Pan-Ther
4. Ti-Ger
5. Le-O-Pard or Leo-Pard

But To Answer You Question, I Recall Someone Saying That Snow Leopards Are A Tougher, More Hardened Evolutions Of Leopards - Hence The Analogy...

You mean Jag-Uar. :p

mungler

Jun 4, 2009, 07:44 PM

enough with the syllables thing! we've had about four of these now...

TwinCities Dan

Jun 4, 2009, 07:45 PM

Syllables? Lets get back to Snow Leopard... :rolleyes:

brop52

Jun 4, 2009, 07:47 PM

Can't wait. Will be upgrading. I suffered when Leopard came out with early graphics bugs on the new iMacs and I'll suffer again with SL.

Master Chief

Jun 4, 2009, 07:55 PM

No. That is not what marble looks like.
Correct, and the term "marble" was selected because of the fact that SL UI is highly polished... referring to its smoothness, which was first shown in leaked photo's of QTX... and two days later demonstrated in a movie on YT (which was quickly taken down).

And no. SL won't be released before Q4, and might in fact even be postponed (when new bugs keep popping up), but that is highly unlikely (a later date, not the bugs I'm afraid).

You might want to get your hands on SL, but get ready for a heavy price tag on the new video adapters, which will be bloody Apple expensive as ever.

Note: There is too much new stuff in SL to learn in a couple of weeks, not to mention iPhone OS 3.0 You have to go mad, really.

Wayfarer

Jun 4, 2009, 07:58 PM

And, for everybody angry that all the rumours are for iPhone, remember, it's always been like that. I can't remember a post iPod WWDC or MacWorld that didn't have iPhone rumours. remember the Rokr? ;)

YES! :D

http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/cellularaccessorycom_2055_21940265

flopticalcube

Jun 4, 2009, 08:04 PM

Hopefully it will have a few nice surprises. Leopard was a bit of a let down, IMO, and Windows 7 is proving to be a good competitor this time.

Drag'nGT

Jun 4, 2009, 08:06 PM

I want some real info about SL to show up at WWDC. I'm just impatiently waiting. :D

Yoursh

Jun 4, 2009, 08:06 PM

Unpredictability is one thing, major installation oversights and service failures is quite another. Leopard simply didn't have enough QA behind it at launch - Apple was already running late on delivery, had taken people off of OS X and put them on to the iPhone OS, and when it hit there were no end of problems. Some of which still exist today - anybody trying to run Software Update Server in Leopard Server, or for that matter has chased around the ARD issues that come and go with Leopard Server knows this.

Likewise, there were innumerable issues with the Leopard workstation installer that a little more attention from Apple could have prevented.

I'm not looking for the perfect OS, I'm looking for Apple to care about its products.

I agree with you there. I think the client version of 10.5 is fairly stable, but I'm still waiting for a fix to Photo library syncing in portable home directories in 10.5 Server.

Wayfarer

Jun 4, 2009, 08:25 PM

NT1440

Jun 4, 2009, 08:27 PM

Oh, almost forgot! Let's take at some of the UI elements in Garage Band 09'. Possible hint at Marble? It's always fun to speculate. ;)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3436/3304603493_9d276d1659_o.png

God thats gorgeous.
:(

Its just not fair, I've been saving for months, since October, and on this site for over a year now. I'm waiting and waiting to be able to get my macbook, I know that I'll be purchasing in late july or early august, but its KILLING ME!

iMacmatician

Jun 4, 2009, 08:47 PM

Oh, almost forgot! Let's take at some of the UI elements in Garage Band 09'. Possible hint at Marble? It's always fun to speculate. ;)
…
More images below of various iLife/iWork '09 apps. Beautiful!They look very good! I will be pleased if this is the GUI of Snow Leopard.

Digitalclips

Jun 4, 2009, 08:57 PM

It's really cool to see all these dates in easy order. Why isn't the OS in the buyers guide? Maybe I am just a weirdo, but I love seeing the progression of things.

Makes me feel old lol, especially when I see this as I was involved from late 1970's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_apple#Timeline_of_Apple_products

telepati

Jun 4, 2009, 09:07 PM

Will Snow Leopard makes much faster my Desktop?

applecultvictim

Jun 4, 2009, 09:10 PM

And that year was 2008. Welcome to last year! Care to join us in the present?

You should try using it for more than 5 minutes on a machine that isn't 7 years old, but be sure to take off your tin-foil hat first.

Yeah like say a netbook! And man does vista blow on a netbook, so much that they specifically extended xp...

And btw vista on a new machine is somehow great and irons out all the horrendous usability and interface issues.

Vista blows, it did then, it does now. Get over it.

VanNess

Jun 4, 2009, 09:10 PM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/04/apple-nearing-completion-of-snow-leopard/)

We've since heard, however, that Snow Leopard may be further along than we thought. Apple is reportedly referring to internal builds of Snow Leopard as Gold Master candidates, suggesting that the operating system could be feature complete and mostly bug free.

Yes, there was this meeting at Apple Headquarters not long ago. I...I remember it like it was yesterday...

-Insert flashback effect here-

INT APPLE HEADQUARTERS - MAIN SOFTWARE ENGINEERING BUILDING 4

The SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, BERTRAND SERLET, a tall, confident
technocrat, strides through the conference room of assembled engineers to the door leading to the hallway. The engineers snap to attention; many are uneasy about the new arrival. But the head of software engineering stands arrogantly tall.

The door to the conference room opens with a WHOOSH. From the black void outside appears PHIL SCHILLER, VICE PRESIDENT OF WORLDWIDE PRODUCT MARKETING. Schiller looks over the assemblage as he walks into the room.

SERLET
Phil, this is an unexpected pleasure. We're honored by your presence.

SCHILLER
You may dispense with the pleasantries, Bertrand. I'm here to put you back on schedule.

(Bertrand turns ashen and begins to shake.)

SERLET
I assure you, Phil, my engineers are working as fast as they can.

SCHILLER
Perhaps I can find new ways to motivate them.

SERLET
I tell you, Snow Leopard will be ready for release as planned.

SCHILLER
The CEO of Apple does not share your optimistic appraisal of the situation.

SERLET
But he asks the impossible. I need more engineers.

SCHILLER
Then perhaps you can tell him when he arrives.

SERLET (aghast)
Steve is coming here?

SCHILLER
That is correct, Bertrand. The end of June. And he is most displeased with your apparent lack of progress.

SERLET
We shall double our efforts.

SCHILLER
I hope so, Bertrand, for your sake. Jobs is not as forgiving as I am...

TheAshMan

Jun 4, 2009, 09:17 PM

If this "Marble" interface comes along I will be buying it. If not, they have some persuading to do to get me on board.
I have to agree with that. If the leaked pictures are to be believed, there is isn't much of a case without a new interface. This is premature and could change, but It doesn't look like enough improvements have been made elsewhere to warrant an upgrade purchase. I know they are making all these improvements under the hood, but my machine already runs everything very fast, so a slight speed increase won't get my dollars. I know long term it will mean less hardware yields better performance and that is great, but I don't need that now. I would prefer a better Finder and iWork suite.

Hopefully they have some good surprises in store for next week.

xrayzed

Jun 4, 2009, 09:20 PM

...So I'm going to wait for the i5 or i7-based iMacs to come out (in all honesty, the Macbook Pro sits docked happily at my desk 95% of the time) sell my Macbook Pro/23" Cinema Display, and upgrade to the 24" iMac with a 1TB drive or, if the fortune gods are smiling down on me, a 512GB SSD and keep my media library on an external drive that I can also use with an :apple:TV. Hopefully sometime after that Apple will release a respectable Netbook-alike that I can use to meet that other 5% that I need to be mobile.

And then, of course... I'll spend the rest of my life in the poor house, but not before walking quietly into the corner since nobody will give a hoot about anything I just wrote.
Actually you're wrong. :D

I find user-upgrade stories like this very useful to get an idea of how to configure my iMac if/when I get it. I've been working with a desktop PC and iBook laptop, but am seriously considering converting to an iMac. Trying to work out the optimal config is a PITA, so posts like this help.

AidenShaw

Jun 4, 2009, 09:27 PM

Yeah like say a netbook! And man does vista blow on a netbook, so much that they specifically extended xp...

... and Windows 7 on a netbook screams.

Try it.

NT1440

Jun 4, 2009, 09:34 PM

... and Windows 7 on a netbook screams.

Try it.

Honest question, which version of 7 is that? I know there is one specifically designed (crippled) for netbooks, but from what I've heard the beta is just one generic type.

AidenShaw

Jun 4, 2009, 09:38 PM

...but am seriously considering converting to an iMac. Trying to work out the optimal config is a PITA, so posts like this help.

Yes, all-in-ones are a PITA - very hard to configure a laptop-on-a-stand with decent specs. Wait for the new Apple Core i7 mini-tower.

Did you notice the new Intel Core i7 chips just released? That could help Apple maintain obscene profit margins on the mini-tower.

liptonlover

Jun 4, 2009, 09:40 PM

Yes, there was this meeting at Apple Headquarters not long ago. I...I remember it like it was yesterday...

-Insert flashback effect here-

INT APPLE HEADQUARTERS - MAIN SOFTWARE ENGINEERING BUILDING 4

The SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, BERTRAND SERLET, a tall, confident
technocrat, strides through the conference room of assembled engineers to the door leading to the hallway. The engineers snap to attention; many are uneasy about the new arrival. But the head of software engineering stands arrogantly tall.

The door to the conference room opens with a WHOOSH. From the black void outside appears PHIL SCHILLER, VICE PRESIDENT OF WORLDWIDE PRODUCT MARKETING. Schiller looks over the assemblage as he walks into the room.

SERLET
Phil, this is an unexpected pleasure. We're honored by your presence.

SCHILLER
You may dispense with the pleasantries, Bertrand. I'm here to put you back on schedule.

(Bertrand turns ashen and begins to shake.)

SERLET
I assure you, Phil, my engineers are working as fast as they can.

SCHILLER
Perhaps I can find new ways to motivate them.

SERLET
I tell you, Snow Leopard will be ready for release as planned.

SCHILLER
The CEO of Apple does not share your optimistic appraisal of the situation.

SERLET
But he asks the impossible. I need more engineers.

SCHILLER
Then perhaps you can tell him when he arrives.

SERLET (aghast)
Steve is coming here?

SCHILLER
That is correct, Bertrand. The end of June. And he is most displeased with your apparent lack of progress.

SERLET
We shall double our efforts.

SCHILLER
I hope so, Bertrand, for your sake. Jobs is not as forgiving as I am...

At first I thought you were just weird.... then I got it. ROFL.

queshy

Jun 4, 2009, 09:44 PM

PPC support. Just don't forget it.

No. Mac stuff please. I couldn't care less about the iPhone.

Trust me, I would love for there not to be one mention of iPhone. I;d love for the whole keynote to be about Mac - but it just won't happen. Apple is turning into a phone company!

AidenShaw

Jun 4, 2009, 09:44 PM

Honest question, which version of 7 is that? I know there is one specifically designed (crippled) for netbooks, but from what I've heard the beta is just one generic type.

I'm using Windows 7 Ultimate on an eeePC 901xp. I upgraded the 2nd SSD to 64 GB so that I can dual-boot between XP and Win7.

The "crippling" of the cheaper SKUs doesn't save space - in fact Microsoft is saying that all the "ultimate" bits are on the machine, so upgrading to a higher level doesn't involve reinstalling.

According to Microsoft, the features for all editions of Windows 7 will be stored on the machine, regardless of what edition is in use. Users who wish to upgrade to an edition of Windows 7 with more features can then use Windows Anytime Upgrade to purchase the upgrade, and unlock the features of those editions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7_editions

Brien

Jun 4, 2009, 09:47 PM

God thats gorgeous.
:(

Its just not fair, I've been saving for months, since October, and on this site for over a year now. I'm waiting and waiting to be able to get my macbook, I know that I'll be purchasing in late july or early august, but its KILLING ME!

I agree. I think that's where it's headed. It's got hints of the inspector window, as well as some iPhone flavor.

Plus, QuickTime X looks similar.

heisetax

Jun 4, 2009, 09:51 PM

I'm thinking that they'll announce new MacBooks and MBPs shipping in a month; Snow Leopard preinstalled.

With Intel's yearly processor change or upgrade, what is there for Apple to do that would be different? I'm interested in a second Gen 17" that just came out. This model has barely been released

sicembears

Jun 4, 2009, 09:53 PM

I'm on the latest build put out. I'd say don't hold your breath on it shipping just yet. Unless there was lots of overtime I don't see it happening. I still have some serious issues.

birch25

Jun 4, 2009, 09:59 PM

...will it be intel-only?... No, but I expect we'll find out for sure next week.

The fact that they said from the start that it is for Intel machines only, all the developer previews have been Intel-only and all the applications in the current build are Intel builds, not Universal are not enough to assume that it will be Intel-only?

Pika

Jun 4, 2009, 10:07 PM

I hope it's the Windows 7 killer.

heisetax

Jun 4, 2009, 10:08 PM

PPC support. Just don't forget it.

No. Mac stuff please. I couldn't care less about the iPhone.

Why would you think that the Mac carries much weight now. Remember how long that OS 10.5 was delayed & for what reason. Even with that extra time it still wasn't ready for prime time.

Why do you think that the Mac part of the company will be treated any differently this time around?

Macs are updated yearly or a few months longer now. iPods are updated in September at the end of the free iPod Touch deal. The iPhone has replaced the iPod as Apple's excuse to forget the Mac.

NT1440

Jun 4, 2009, 10:11 PM

Remember how long that OS 10.5 was delayed & for what reason. Even with that extra time it still wasn't ready for prime time.

Can we clear this up once and for all?

It was my understanding that 10.5 was never delayed, only the tech journalists said it was even though Apple never gave a release date.

Can someone who was in the mac scene at the time clarify?

Peace

Jun 4, 2009, 10:14 PM

Can we clear this up once and for all?

It was my understanding that 10.5 was never delayed, only the tech journalists said it was even though Apple never gave a release date.

Can someone who was in the mac scene at the time clarify?

Mac OS 10.5 was delayed so that Apple engineers could concentrate on getting out the iPhone.

NT1440

Jun 4, 2009, 10:15 PM

Mac OS 10.5 was delayed so that Apple engineers could concentrate on getting out the iPhone.

I was hoping for a source or something like that.

Eidorian

Jun 4, 2009, 10:17 PM

Can we clear this up once and for all?

It was my understanding that 10.5 was never delayed, only the tech journalists said it was even though Apple never gave a release date.

Can someone who was in the mac scene at the time clarify?Lots of news and blogs point to the iPhone delaying Leopard. When you make it back to Apple's official admission on Apple PR it's not there though.

I just Googled it?

NT1440

Jun 4, 2009, 10:19 PM

Lots of news and blogs point to the iPhone delaying Leopard. When you make it back to Apple's official admission on Apple PR it's not there though.

I just Googled it?

I'm just asking, was there an actual release date or timeframe they gave, that they were later unable to meet?

I dont trust tech journalism anymore, it all seems to be speculation, every last drop of it.

Peace

Jun 4, 2009, 10:21 PM

seashellz

Jun 4, 2009, 10:21 PM

Possibly we'll see at the WWDC an "Oh and one more thing" announcement for July or Aug 1

No debt, $30 Billion in the bank-the NYC flagship store had an astounding $440 Million in sales in 2008

My God-no wonder MS are nervous-their market share IS eroding-and APPLE is going like gangbusters according to several business journals

These are old men who 'dont get it'

Even their reeking of desperation ZOON ads miss the point-
They have a kind of 'Enterprise' feel about them-too stodgy
and who wants to sit through a math class on the phantom virtues of the zoon?

Even their "hip" "groovy" ads feel like theyre written by clueless 40/50-something PR guys who THINK that they know how to 'market' to the 20-35 year old demographic-ads populated by MS/consumer/breeder 'poodle' types

Their 'cost of owning a Mac' ads I think are actually helping expose APPLE to a larger mass of people who have never heard of them-people will ALWAYS want to see what the fuss is all about.
As its been said
"There is no such thing as bad publicity"

I dont know if PPC can keep up with OS X any longer-as of SL-so it makes sense to retire it
Look for a spate of new Mac purchases-while the holdouts will keep their PPC machines

Eidorian

Jun 4, 2009, 10:27 PM

I'm just asking, was there an actual release date or timeframe they gave, that they were later unable to meet?

I dont trust tech journalism anymore, it all seems to be speculation, every last drop of it.Here's what I found just before it hops to Apple's PR.

CUPERTINO, Calif., April 12 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Apple today
released the following statement:
iPhone has already passed several of its required certification tests
and is on schedule to ship in late June as planned. We can't wait until
customers get their hands (and fingers) on it and experience what a
revolutionary and magical product it is. However, iPhone contains the most
sophisticated software ever shipped on a mobile device, and finishing it on
time has not come without a price -- we had to borrow some key software
engineering and QA resources from our Mac OS(R) X team, and as a result we
will not be able to release Leopard at our Worldwide Developers Conference
in early June as planned. While Leopard's features will be complete by
then, we cannot deliver the quality release that we and our customers
expect from us. We now plan to show our developers a near final version of
Leopard at the conference, give them a beta copy to take home so they can
do their final testing, and ship Leopard in October. We think it will be
well worth the wait. Life often presents tradeoffs, and in this case we're
sure we've made the right ones.

And it made it to Page 1 (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/12/apple-delays-leopard-release/).

gibbz

Jun 4, 2009, 10:31 PM

edit: beat to it.

I'm just asking, was there an actual release date or timeframe they gave, that they were later unable to meet?

I dont trust tech journalism anymore, it all seems to be speculation, every last drop of it.

They did plan to debut Leopard in June 2007 at WWDC, but was delayed until October. The delay was specifically blamed on the iPhone.

"iPhone contains the most sophisticated software ever shipped on a mobile device, and finishing it on time has not come without a price -- we had to borrow some key software engineering and QA resources from our Mac OS X team."

Here are some stories that talked about it.
Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/12/apples-leopard-delayed-to-october-iphone-blamed/)
TUAW (http://www.tuaw.com/2007/04/12/apple-announces-leopard-delays-due-to-the-iphone/)

Eidorian

Jun 4, 2009, 10:33 PM

They did plan to debut Leopard in June 2007 at WWDC, but was delayed until October. The delay was specifically blamed on the iPhone.

Here are some stories that talked about it.
Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/12/apples-leopard-delayed-to-october-iphone-blamed/)
TUAW (http://www.tuaw.com/2007/04/12/apple-announces-leopard-delays-due-to-the-iphone/)What bugs me is that it should be in Apple's PR library for 2007 but it isn't.

NT1440

Jun 4, 2009, 10:33 PM

Here's what I found just before it hops to Apple's PR.

And it made it to Page 1 (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/12/apple-delays-leopard-release/).

They did plan to debut Leopard in June 2007 at WWDC, but was delayed until October. The delay was specifically blamed on the iPhone.

edit: beat to it.

Here are some stories that talked about it.
Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/12/apples-leopard-delayed-to-october-iphone-blamed/)
TUAW (http://www.tuaw.com/2007/04/12/apple-announces-leopard-delays-due-to-the-iphone/)

Ah, thanks for clearing that up guys :)

Eidorian

Jun 4, 2009, 10:35 PM

Ah, thanks for clearing that up guys :)I'm used to it.

gibbz

Jun 4, 2009, 10:35 PM

What bugs me is that it should be in Apple's PR library for 2007 but it isn't.

Yeah, I was looking through there and noticed it was "missing"

I guess they cherry-pick the good news to keep.

Drag'nGT

Jun 4, 2009, 10:37 PM

I hope they look at MS' price options for upgrading to Windows 7 and price the upgrade just as nicely. Upgrades to Windows 7 will start at only $50.

Well, we can hope. :D

RMo

Jun 4, 2009, 11:18 PM

This Is So Ironic Its Not Even Funny...

Syllables Are Sub Words That Are Accented By Vowel Sounds Or Phonetics,
Such As:

Jag - You - Are

Not to drag the syllable thing on for longer than needed, but as a linguistics student I can't just see this and let it slide ... but don't worry, I do have actually Snow-Leopard-related comments to share as well. :D

A syllable is a grouping of sounds in a language. A syllable (depending on the particular syllable and the rules of the langauge) can have up to three parts, the onset, nucleus, and coda, with the nucleus and coda being known collectively as the rhyme. In English, the nucleus is required and the onset and coda are optional. What this boils down to for English is that a syllable is basically a vowel (nucleus) optionally surrounded by consonants (onset and coda). The examples I, me, to, and cat show four possiblities nicely, although either onset or coda could also be a consonant cluster (e.g., splat).

Back to OS X "Jaguar," General American pronunciation would usually divide it into two syllables, "ja" (onset plus nucleus) and "guar" (onset [proably a [gw] consonant cluster], nucleus, and coda). Some people would also consider the "g" to be part of the first syllable, which also works; another theory proposes that the 'g' is shared between the coda of the first syllable and the onset of the second, but we don't need to get into that. :)

British pronunciation, on the other hand, apparently divides the word more like ja-gu-ar (although due to some tendency in English to think consonants belong to the coda of stressed syllables, many speakers might claim it is divided jag-u-ar; for a simple analysis like this there is no problem dividing either way).

I'm not even sure what the quoted poster meant by "accented by vowel sounds or phonetics," but as you can see, either pronunciation of the word (and division of syllables according to that pronunciation) works out and follows the rules of English phonology perfectly fine. Depending on your pronuncation, it can be either two or three syllables.

Back on to the Snow Leopard topic, I am also excited for this release--but I'm particularly wondering about their pricing. The last incremental-ish upgrade was 10.1, which they gave away for free to 10.0 users, but I can't see them doing that again (especially since 10.1 was what 10.0 should have been), but I wonder if they'll do any sort of reduced pricing.

That would be nice.

AidenShaw

Jun 4, 2009, 11:19 PM

What bugs me is that it should be in Apple's PR library for 2007 but it isn't.

2007 will be like 1984 ....

(the "big lie")

twoodcc

Jun 4, 2009, 11:38 PM

i'm looking forward to seeing and hearing more about sl next week. maybe a june or july release? i sure hope so

Billy Boo Bob

Jun 4, 2009, 11:45 PM

I haven't read very deep on which machines with which specs will gain the most (speed-wise) with SL, but I'm hoping my iMac 24 will gain a little bit. Even without much look and feel change, I really like the idea of a Cocoa Finder.

And, like anyone else here, I could bang out a long wish list of additions... Even those that are strictly under–the–hood... But the main thing I'd like to see some under the hood attention paid to is networking... The long delays when trying to auto-mount a volume from another Mac that's not online at the moment, for one. Or clicking on a shortcut in the Finder's sidebar that needs to mount a volume that's not mounted yet. Man, talk about delays.

str1f3

Jun 5, 2009, 12:17 AM

Oh, almost forgot! Let's take at some of the UI elements in Garage Band 09'. Possible hint at Marble? It's always fun to speculate. ;)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3436/3304603493_9d276d1659_o.png

More images below of various iLife/iWork '09 apps. Beautiful!

That is sweet! Add a black menu bar and it is near perfect. Only thing that bothers me is that iTunes is still not Cocoa/64bit and it hasn't be slimmed down. It should have been one of the first things they should have done. I realize that it would be a large undertaking but better to do it now than later.

petsounds

Jun 5, 2009, 01:04 AM

I know this is rather OT, but wanted to take a moment to remind everyone that the cat whose name Apple borrowed for this release is actually critically endangered, with an estimate of only 300 left in the wild.

I have written Apple in the past, including the "steve jobs" address, to ask for their support is raising awareness of this issue, or perhaps even donate a small percentage of Snow Leopard revenue towards preservation efforts. Seems the least they could do in return for the name, but I got only silence in response.

If you'd like to learn more about the namesake animal, or even donate to help preserve this beautiful creature, this is a good site to do so:
http://www.fauna-flora.org/snowleopard.php

Eric S.

Jun 5, 2009, 01:12 AM

The fact that they said from the start that it is for Intel machines only, all the developer previews have been Intel-only and all the applications in the current build are Intel builds, not Universal are not enough to assume that it will be Intel-only?

It is enough to assume that. But the point was that Apple has never, to my knowledge, officially stated it. That was the question.

sicembears

Jun 5, 2009, 01:16 AM

Mac OS 10.5 was delayed so that Apple engineers could concentrate on getting out the iPhone.

It was out of Steve's mouth at MacWorld or the WWDC I can't remember which.

celtikmind

Jun 5, 2009, 01:38 AM

FINALLY some news that are Mac-related and not iPhone gossiping about type of plastic blah blah! Took long enough...

I know this is rather OT, but wanted to take a moment to remind everyone that the cat whose name Apple borrowed for this release is actually critically endangered, with an estimate of only 300 left in the wild.

I have written Apple in the past, including the "steve jobs" address, to ask for their support is raising awareness of this issue, or perhaps even donate a small percentage of Snow Leopard revenue towards preservation efforts. Seems the least they could do in return for the name, but I got only silence in response.

If you'd like to learn more about the namesake animal, or even donate to help preserve this beautiful creature, this is a good site to do so:
http://www.fauna-flora.org/snowleopard.php

You would think a company having $29 billion in the bank could use at least a tiny fraction of that for something beneficial to the environment, especially with Gore in their board... but nooooo, more money to the stockholders all that matters!

Come on, Apple! Quit humping the consumer market like an old lady's rabid dog and do something 'neat' instead.

str1f3

Jun 5, 2009, 02:06 AM

mogzieee

Jun 5, 2009, 03:34 AM

Trust me, I would love for there not to be one mention of iPhone. I;d love for the whole keynote to be about Mac - but it just won't happen. Apple is turning into a phone company!

+1

gctwnl

Jun 5, 2009, 06:44 AM

I still think they'll hold it until after Windows 7 is released.
I'd hope not. After all if Apple had started following actual Microsoft release dates we would now be at, what, 10.2?

;)

Walla78

Jun 5, 2009, 07:54 AM

I personally will be shocked if there are no interface updates included in SL.

Think about it from a marketing standpoint. Most of us on these boards are at least relatively tech-savvy individuals. We are able to understand and appreciate the under-the-hood improvements things like Grand Central will bring.

But consider the average consumer. How do you convince them? Go into an Apple store and take a look around. Trying to convince someone like my mother that they should spend $100+ on an OS because it is "multicore aware and optimiz[ed] for allocating tasks across multiple cores and processors," probably won't get you anywhere. In fact, it might be counter-productive. Average people like the Mac OS because of its elegance and simplicity. Fancy-shmancy tech-jargon is not a big selling point for most people.

I'm not saying that the average person won't be able to notice performance increases. It's just that there NEEDS to be some other x-factor. Something that will grab people's eye and seduce them.

ungraphic

Jun 5, 2009, 08:32 AM

seriously?? all you care about is the interface.. just the way it looks, rather than the gr8 way it would feel??
If this "Marble" interface comes along I will be buying it. If not, they have some persuading to do to get me on board.

LOL, yeah, exactly....you can tell why he bought his iBranded mac, so he can LOOK REALLY COOL while sipping his latte at starbucks.

Epic fail.

iMacmatician

Jun 5, 2009, 08:33 AM

DamnDJ

Jun 5, 2009, 09:32 AM

Eh, I'm calling it now. There is no "marble" or any sort of interface overhaul.

Anyway, Grand central and OpenCL will be worth price of admission alone.

zemblan

Jun 5, 2009, 09:36 AM

LOL, yeah, exactly....you can tell why he bought his iBranded mac, so he can LOOK REALLY COOL while sipping his latte at starbucks.

Epic fail.

I use an iMac at work, I then go home and use 2 iMacs, one with an extra monitor, to make music. In short I spend most of my time looking at the GUI. It matters to me too that it's easy on the eye, also I have never been in a Starbucks and I don't own a laptop.

Just chill and realise that not everyone uses their macs for the same purposes you do and different elements of the 'apple experience' have different appeals for different folks.

(PS - do 'cool' people go to Starbucks in the States? They wouldn't be seen dead in a Starbucks over here in Blighty...)

MrMoore

Jun 5, 2009, 09:40 AM

I can't wait (well I guess I can) for Snow Leopard. I am thinking of getting a new MacBook to replace my 3 year old MBP, but want to wait until SL is released. Maybe there will be a update to the MacBook as well announced at WWDC.

:apple::cool:

celtikmind

Jun 5, 2009, 10:25 AM

There once was a great company named Apple
who, despite customer's cries simply failed to grapple
that with the iPhone they neglected the Mac,
drove their quality business down and out of whack!
Now all that's left, is this rhyme inside a Snapple.

jaw04005

Jun 5, 2009, 11:36 AM

I'd hope not. After all if Apple had started following actual Microsoft release dates we would now be at, what, 10.2?

Well, there are two ways they could go with this in PR speak.

If released before Windows 7:

On the positive, it implies Apple's operating system technology continues to advance at a quicker pace than Microsoft's. Apple has shipped two major operating system releases in the same time period Microsoft only managed to to ship Vista.

On the negative, Apple customers may realize they've spent $258 on operating system upgrades in the last two years.

If released after Windows 7:

On the positive, Snow Leopard will be the "newest" operating system on the market and will retain that title for years on out.

On the negative, the PC-centric press will label Snow Leopard Apple's "response" to Windows 7.

Vista's release: January 30, 2007
Leopard's release: October 26, 2007
Snow Leopard's release: August/September/November 2009
Windows 7's release: October 22, 2009

It'll be interesting to see what they pick. They might bump SL all the way to January for all we know.

DELLsFan

Jun 5, 2009, 11:37 AM

This will be a great upgrade. Win 7 should be great too. Lots of reasons to be excited if you're as geeky as me. :D

nuckinfutz

Jun 5, 2009, 11:40 AM

There are a slew of books on Snow Leopard due in August from Oreilly and other publishers. Snow Leopard is coming this summer. I expect the WWDC Preview to be really stable when delivered next week.

jaw04005

Jun 5, 2009, 11:50 AM

Pretty much what I've been saying for a while too. Some sort of visual and consumer-centric feature(s) would be good for Snow Leopard.

I know Jobs said it wouldn't have new features. However, I can't seem to find the keynote that he discusses that.

I just watched the WWDC 08 keynote from Apple's Special Events page, which is where I thought he announced that.

Anyone know?

windywoo

Jun 5, 2009, 12:28 PM

Part of the reason I use a Mac is because of how slick and nice the interface is. I work long hours and then when I am home I also work long hours on side projects. Spending the amount of time I do in front of a machine, I want the interface to look good.

I couldn't get excited about work using a Windows box. Its so dreadful and reduces my productivity greatly.

I use Coda, not because it is the best editor for PHP ... but because its the best interface for my needs and does almost everything I need.

UI is a very very big deal to for me. I can not use a very ugly interface. I have stopped using products before because of interface.

Both of these cars http://lkp.cc/4BB5j http://lkp.cc/4BC03 serve the same purpose, they get you front point A to point B. Now you see where I am going with this ?

Apple takes interface very seriously. I hope you were joking saying they don't. Although Leopard does have a lot that doesn't totally match from application to application, most of the interfaces are very well thought out. Very smooth and very easy on the eyes.

Apple doesn't support themes because they don't enjoy someone coming along and taking a **** on their interface. There was a few really nice interfaces for jail broken iPhones, but 95% of those interfaces were total crap and made the phone look down right awful.

Apple wants you to be able to walk over to any Mac and feel comfortable using it. Go check out 10 peoples PCs. Sure, they can customize the crap out of it ... using downright awful fonts and icons that make no sense. For example, the people who will replace all system icons with icons from their favorite TV show. Apple wouldn't want someone to see that and go, oh crap what the hell is this ?!

lol what an outrageously snooty and pretentious post, and the worst part is, you seem serious and not ashamed at all to be so image conscious. Can't you think for yourself? Don't you have a favourite TV show that you would use a still from as your desktop? Would you never use a picture of your own child as a desktop background because it would clash with the UI?

I sit next to a graphic designer in my class and he constantly gets the piss ripped out of him for saying things like "Everybody thinks they're a designer." He's clueless about the programming of course, but he won't go into a sandwich shop if their logo is bad.

fef714

Jun 5, 2009, 01:20 PM

Apple takes interface very seriously. I hope you were joking saying they don't. Although Leopard does have a lot that doesn't totally match from application to application, most of the interfaces are very well thought out. Very smooth and very easy on the eyes.

Apple doesn't support themes because they don't enjoy someone coming along and taking a **** on their interface. There was a few really nice interfaces for jail broken iPhones, but 95% of those interfaces were total crap and made the phone look down right awful.

Apple wants you to be able to walk over to any Mac and feel comfortable using it. Go check out 10 peoples PCs. Sure, they can customize the crap out of it ... using downright awful fonts and icons that make no sense. For example, the people who will replace all system icons with icons from their favorite TV show. Apple wouldn't want someone to see that and go, oh crap what the hell is this ?!

okay first off, Apple's UI is not all that consistent. This isn't really a bad thing, because sometimes it needs to be a little different. I mean open up iTunes, and each of the three different views [List, Grid, Cover Flow] have a different type of scroll bar. Each look suites the style, but it is different.

Also it isn't that hard to change the theme in Leopard. It isn't native, but it can be done.

Anything you can change in Windows, you can change in OSX, it may not be as easy but it can be done. Except I don't think that there is a way to move the menu bar on top.

Oh and even though you can change stuff, I don't know very many people who do, because OSX is just so damn beautiful. Heck I even have the 'Aurora' background that came with it.

AidenShaw

Jun 5, 2009, 01:20 PM

Vista's release: January 30, 2007
Leopard's release: October 26, 2007
Windows Server 2008 release: February 4, 2008
Snow Leopard's release: August/September/November 2009
Windows 7's release: October 22, 2009.

Fixed the omission for you...

fef714

Jun 5, 2009, 01:25 PM

This will be a great upgrade. Win 7 should be great too. Lots of reasons to be excited if you're as geeky as me. :D

Ya win 7 looks to improve vista ALOT. Although I don't think I will get it, because I mostly use my iMac, not my old Sony VAIO that (barely) runs XP :rolleyes:.

fef714

Jun 5, 2009, 01:33 PM

MacsRgr8

Jun 5, 2009, 01:49 PM

They can't. But we have no idea when the OS will actually ship, and with 10.5 they initially released it to devs intel only then released a PPC version later.

?
I can't remember any 10.5 developer release not installable on a G5??

As for the 10.6 developer builds, all of them are Intel only.
I expect 10.6 final to be Intel only, both x86 as x64.

Macminiintel

Jun 5, 2009, 01:59 PM

Ha ha this will be great can't wait i'll be in line just like I was at the Leopard, Tiger & Panther launch lol. Snow leopard is gonna rule.

A WWDC banner mock-up I made in photoshop lol

Eric S.

Jun 5, 2009, 02:00 PM

If Marble isn't included (or another change in the UI) It will hurt sales alot.

I mean it won't make much of a difference to us geeks, but my parents/sister (who I just recently converted to OSX) will not pay for an 'under the hood' improvement. If they don't see a change my paranoid family might think it's a huge rip-off and conspiracy thought up by those evil corporate folk at Apple. :rolleyes:

For the sake of sales, I think they should include Marble.

But really how concerned is Apple with getting the average customer to upgrade to Snow Leopard? It seems to me that SL's purpose is to increase sales of the next generation of higher-powered Mac platforms. That's where Apple makes the bulk of its profits, not from OS upgrades.

Macminiintel

Jun 5, 2009, 02:04 PM

I personally will be shocked if there are no interface updates included in SL.

Well i won't really, Mac OS X Panther & Tiger had the same U.I pretty much, Tiger had a bluer apple in the menu bar and dashboard etc, but it still had the brushed metal style. People didn't complain what Tiger was released no idea why people are complaining now. Snow Leopard is gonna rule

Macminiintel

Jun 5, 2009, 02:04 PM

I personally will be shocked if there are no interface updates included in SL.

Well i won't really, Mac OS X Panther & Tiger had the same U.I pretty much, Tiger had a bluer apple in the menu bar and dashboard etc, but it still had the brushed metal style. People didn't complain when Tiger was released no idea why people are complaining now. Snow Leopard is gonna rule

jmpage2

Jun 5, 2009, 02:53 PM

Did it ever occur to anyone that they could have kept Marble completely under wraps up until WWDC?

They can have developers test features, etc, in SL loads without showing off the UI changes which would get leaked very quickly.

I'm hoping for some UI enhancements. I would kill for an overhaul to the Finder but not holding my breath on that one.

jaw04005

Jun 5, 2009, 03:08 PM

Did it ever occur to anyone that they could have kept Marble completely under wraps up until WWDC?

Wasn't Leopard's UI kept a secret (and out of the developer seeds) until WWDC '07?

jmpage2

Jun 5, 2009, 03:17 PM

Wasn't Leopard's UI kept a secret (and out of the developer seeds) until WWDC '07?

I hope that's true and I hope they do something similar for Snow Leopard. As other people have pointed out, it's unlikely that the Mac faithful will upgrade for improvements like Grand Junction and OpenCL.

If the UI and a few other things get improved though, that could be a reason to get users on the new OS.

NT1440

Jun 5, 2009, 03:18 PM

As other people have pointed out, it's unlikely that the Mac faithful will upgrade for improvements like Grand Junction and OpenCL.
.

Huh?:confused:

Do you mean regular users?

iPhoneNYC

Jun 5, 2009, 03:20 PM

Somehow I believe that Snow Leopard will wait until the Fall, following the new iPhone frenzy.

MikhailT

Jun 5, 2009, 03:24 PM

Somehow I believe that Snow Leopard will wait until the Fall, following the new iPhone frenzy.

SL and iPhone are two different markets even if they both have the same subsets of underlying MacOS, there's very small overlap between those two markets and Apple has no reasons to wait iPhone out to release SL. Apple will release SL when it is ready to be released. However it won't be dependent on the iPhone, more likely it'll be dependent on W7. W7 is schedule to RTM by the end of August for the Oct retail availability.

So the main question is, will Apple release SL before or after W7?

flopticalcube

Jun 5, 2009, 03:38 PM

SL and iPhone are two different markets even if they both have the same subsets of underlying MacOS, there's very small overlap between those two markets and Apple has no reasons to wait iPhone out to release SL. Apple will release SL when it is ready to be released. However it won't be dependent on the iPhone, more likely it'll be dependent on W7. W7 is schedule to RTM by the end of August for the Oct retail availability.

So the main question is, will Apple release SL before or after W7?

Not necessarily. Apple pulled off staff from Leopard to work on the iPhone. Could happen again.

MikhailT

Jun 5, 2009, 03:45 PM

Not necessarily. Apple pulled off staff from Leopard to work on the iPhone. Could happen again.

You think Apple didn't learn a lesson from their mistakes the first time around? I don't think Apple was ever pressured like that before, two different major platforms near the same time, they probably didn't allocate the resources right the first time. I am sure Apple has since then expended their resources and allocate correctly this time.

Eidorian

Jun 5, 2009, 03:53 PM

You think Apple didn't learn a lesson from their mistakes the first time around? I don't think Apple was ever pressured like that before, two different major platforms near the same time, they probably didn't allocate the resources right the first time. I am sure Apple has since then expended their resources and allocate correctly this time.In before yet another press release that the iPhone is the #1 priority.

MikhailT

Jun 5, 2009, 03:55 PM

In before yet another press release that the iPhone is the #1 priority.

Not sure what that has to do with anything?

Eidorian

Jun 5, 2009, 03:58 PM

Not sure what that has to do with anything?I'm just preparing for the worst.

We've already tracked down the 2007 statement on Leopard vs. The iPhone.

Stridder44

Jun 5, 2009, 04:30 PM

iMacmatician

Jun 5, 2009, 06:01 PM

Wasn't Leopard's UI kept a secret (and out of the developer seeds) until WWDC '07?I think it was revealed (in some form) in the last developer preview before WWDC 2007. I can't remember if there were any changes between that and the WWDC seed.

God I've been wanting a UI like that for years ever since the transparent black started showing up in iPhoto.I literally prayed for such a GUI for Leopard when the new GUI rumor(s) were widespread.

fef714

Jun 5, 2009, 06:09 PM

Everybody press, Command Option Control 8, and then you have Marble. :D

You know for menus and stuff

queshy

Jun 5, 2009, 09:47 PM

Ha ha this will be great can't wait i'll be in line just like I was at the Leopard, Tiger & Panther launch lol. Snow leopard is gonna rule.

A WWDC banner mock-up I made in photoshop lol

Nice job. I WISH that was real.

Leopard's interface is almost perfect. I hope they just do some small tweaks, and not overhaul it like they did from 10.4-->10.5 (i.e. tons of new features).

I care most about SPEED and STABILITY. Tiger was always more stable than leopard for me.

fef714

Jun 5, 2009, 10:01 PM

Nice job. I WISH that was real.

Leopard's interface is almost perfect. I hope they just do some small tweaks, and not overhaul it like they did from 10.4-->10.5 (i.e. tons of new features).

I care most about SPEED and STABILITY. Tiger was always more stable than leopard for me.

Really? Leopard has been faster and more reliable for me. Although in all fairness this maynot be because of the OS, but that I also upgraded to a new faster iMac.

Burning Radio

Jun 5, 2009, 10:48 PM

I agree that the Black Menus with very little transparency are Beautifully simple looking. Would be GREAT!

Brien

Jun 6, 2009, 01:34 AM

Well i won't really, Mac OS X Panther & Tiger had the same U.I pretty much, Tiger had a bluer apple in the menu bar and dashboard etc, but it still had the brushed metal style. People didn't complain when Tiger was released no idea why people are complaining now. Snow Leopard is gonna rule

Well, the progress bars haven't changed since 10.0 DP3 so...

Peace

Jun 6, 2009, 01:51 AM

Here's a real Snow Leopard banner :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/adamjackson/3598649153/in/set-72157619180454716/

celtikmind

Jun 6, 2009, 03:21 AM

Here's a real Snow Leopard banner :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/adamjackson/3598649153/in/set-72157619180454716/

Apple really exerted themselves on that one... Phew! :p

rdowns

Jun 6, 2009, 06:15 AM

Somehow I believe that Snow Leopard will wait until the Fall, following the new iPhone frenzy.

Agree completely. Every business quarter needs its cash cow.

-hh

Jun 6, 2009, 07:00 AM

Well, there are two ways they could go with this in PR speak.

If released before Windows 7:

On the positive, it implies Apple's operating system technology continues to advance at a quicker pace than Microsoft's. Apple has shipped two major operating system releases in the same time period Microsoft only managed to to ship Vista.

On the negative, Apple customers may realize they've spent $258 on operating system upgrades in the last two years.

If released after Windows 7:

On the positive, Snow Leopard will be the "newest" operating system on the market and will retain that title for years on out.

On the negative, the PC-centric press will label Snow Leopard Apple's "response" to Windows 7.

Vista's release: January 30, 2007
Leopard's release: October 26, 2007
Snow Leopard's release: August/September/November 2009
Windows 7's release: October 22, 2009

It'll be interesting to see what they pick. They might bump SL all the way to January for all we know.

I'm of the inclination that they'll ship (close to) "On Time", since that will create a black eye for Microsoft.

And the issue with consumers having spent $258 only applies if Apple charges that much. There's always the possibility that Apple could use SL as a means to counter those Microsoft "Value" points.

For example, consider if they said that any Mac still under AppleCare can buy 1 copy of SL for $29....and how many more sales of AppleCare that results in next year?

-hh

furcalchick

Jun 6, 2009, 08:58 AM

Agree completely. Every business quarter needs its cash cow.

i thought ipods are the 4th quarter cash cow. i guess that means snow leopard won't be coming out until next year.:mad:

one question though: can we rule out a december/january release? because honestly, if this isn't out by labor day, i don't see it out until at least november.

celtikmind

Jun 6, 2009, 09:15 AM

OMG?! Snow Leopard is going to be released before Duke Nukem Forever?

How will I afford this...

:D

AidenShaw

Jun 6, 2009, 10:39 AM

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/06/best-buy-windows-7-memo-small.jpg

http://www.engadget.com/photos/best-buy-memo-explains-that-vista-doesnt-work-details-windows-7-upgrade-plans/2062297/

AidenShaw

Jun 6, 2009, 10:41 AM

http://www.technologymadness.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/windows_71.png

http://xkcd.com/528/

:D

Eric S.

Jun 6, 2009, 11:13 AM

http://www.engadget.com/photos/best-buy-memo-explains-that-vista-doesnt-work-details-windows-7-upgrade-plans/2062297/

"Other retailers will not be able to compete with our Geek Squad services"

Hilarious!

AidenShaw

Jun 6, 2009, 03:03 PM

"Other retailers will not be able to compete with our Geek Squad services"

Hilarious!

I smiled when I read that line too.

But I wonder - it might possibly be true. The Geek Squad might be better than what any other big store can offer.

You read complaints that the "Apple 'Geniuses' are idiots", it's just hard to get good systems people at a commercial salary scale.

jaw04005

Jun 6, 2009, 08:27 PM

Well i won't really, Mac OS X Panther & Tiger had the same U.I pretty much, Tiger had a bluer apple in the menu bar and dashboard etc, but it still had the brushed metal style. People didn't complain what Tiger was released no idea why people are complaining now. Snow Leopard is gonna rule

I would say the UI differences between versions is substantial except between 10.0 and 10.1.

jaw04005

Jun 6, 2009, 08:29 PM

Based on past history, I think it's safe to assume that Snow Leopard will feature a slightly altered UI.

Mods: Had to make two posts to post all the different versions. Sorry.

applecultvictim

Jun 6, 2009, 09:22 PM

Based on past history, I think it's safe to assume that Snow Leopard will feature a slightly altered UI.

Mods: Had to make two posts to post all the different versions. Sorry.

I actually prefer Panther ui colours to leopard's. :):apple: Maybe it's nostalgia.

MShock

Jun 6, 2009, 09:49 PM

I hope the gray in the ui windows is something more aluminum looking like the youtube player or the iPhone's push to unlock button and the drop down menus are more like that garage band pick. I think a nice re-organization of basic menus needs to be more tab centric as well (for example: iTunes and Finder). That is not a major overhaul, but certainly more polished.

SydneyDev

Jun 6, 2009, 10:02 PM

I would say the UI differences between versions is substantial except between 10.0 and 10.1.

Windows look so much better without the titlebar and toolbar unified. Sigh.

celtikmind

Jun 7, 2009, 03:25 AM

Based on past history, I think it's safe to assume that Snow Leopard will feature a slightly altered UI.

Mods: Had to make two posts to post all the different versions. Sorry.

I guess the one on the bottom right in the second post show Snow Leopard then, no? It's a little hard to make out the details though... :D

Seriously - great post(s)! :cool: They should really let the lollipop traffic lights go, in 2009 it just screams of "Fisher-Price" when I see them...

-hh

Jun 7, 2009, 06:22 AM

I guess the one on the bottom right in the second post show Snow Leopard then, no? It's a little hard to make out the details though... :D

Its the "White Cow in a Snowstorm" look. Its taking the "lack of contrast" UI from Microsoft's horrible MS-Office 2007 to the next level ("no contrast!") and the "Life without Walls" is being stepped up to "Life without Windows, Either"

-hh

Winni

Jun 7, 2009, 10:07 AM

Both of these cars http://lkp.cc/4BB5j http://lkp.cc/4BC03 serve the same purpose, they get you front point A to point B. Now you see where I am going with this ?

Yep. The BMW sucks in bad weather, eats more gasoline, costs more and you really don't drive it on bad roads. While with the other car you don't care about these things, it's much cheaper and you just drive it wherever you need to go and it won't bother you much if you drive a dent into it. If it breaks, you either get it fixed for a few bucks or you just buy another one. If the BMW breaks, you better make sure that you have enough dough on your bank and find someone who can - or is allowed to - actually repair it.

Now you see where I am going with this?

Winni

Jun 7, 2009, 10:13 AM

http://www.technologymadness.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/windows_71.png

http://xkcd.com/528/

:D

That's as funny as this one:

http://www.wmaus.net/images/adolf-hitler-with-a-mac.jpg

(Or maybe both aren't funny at all.)

dannster

Jun 7, 2009, 10:21 AM

Shake 'n' Bake

Jun 7, 2009, 10:27 AM

Hi guys :)

I have a few questions about Snow Leopard...

1) What's Marble?

2) I've heard it will improve performance of MacBooks, but will it to the MacBook Airs?

3) Will it be a free upgrade? Or is is that wishful thinking?? lol

1. Marble is a code name of a new UI that Apple may release with SL.

2. On the current ones, probably a little, but on the older ones, probably not.

3. No.

uaecasher

Jun 7, 2009, 10:29 AM

That's as funny as this one:

http://www.wmaus.net/images/adolf-hitler-with-a-mac.jpg

(Or maybe both aren't funny at all.)

if the pic where reversed i.e ( steve jobs in the pic and Hitler in the screen reflection)

techfreak85

Jun 7, 2009, 10:43 AM

First of all, marble is just going to be an evolution of the "Faux-Qua" we have now, not anything big.

Second of all, i have a feeling that SL isn't for the Mac as much as we think it is. A large part of why they are doing this is for the other devices like the iPhone, Apple TV, iPods, and any new devices that "run OS X".

uaecasher

Jun 7, 2009, 10:45 AM

Trust me, I would love for there not to be one mention of iPhone. I;d love for the whole keynote to be about Mac - but it just won't happen. Apple is turning into a phone company!

agree here, I don't mind apple to succeed with a product like an iPhone, but i don't want to it give less care to it's main business which is the Macintosh.

celtikmind

Jun 7, 2009, 11:20 AM

First of all, marble is just going to be an evolution of the "Faux-Qua" we have now, not anything big.

The F**kwha'?? :eek: :confused:

Second of all, i have a feeling that SL isn't for the Mac as much as we think it is. A large part of why they are doing this is for the other devices like the iPhone, Apple TV, iPods, and any new devices that "run OS X".

That's the scary part. Apple's wet dream of having us locked up in a tighter controlled OS while they dazzle us with their tech design. While I may like some things they do, I don't ever want to see them occupying MS numbers in the market. With the control of things they really seem to want, if they ever get to be the major market share they're going to make Microsoft look like your best buddy... :eek:

AidenShaw

Jun 7, 2009, 09:28 PM

That's the scary part. Apple's wet dream of having us locked up in a tighter controlled OS while they dazzle us with their tech design. While I may like some things they do, I don't ever want to see them occupying MS numbers in the market.

With the control of things they really seem to want, if they ever get to be the major market share they're going to make Microsoft look like your best buddy... :eek:

Note, though, that it would be illegal for Apple to do much of what they do today if they had Microsoft's market share.

LagunaSol

Jun 7, 2009, 11:12 PM

With the control of things they really seem to want, if they ever get to be the major market share they're going to make Microsoft look like your best buddy.

Note, though, that it would be illegal for Apple to do much of what they do today if they had Microsoft's market share.

Yeah, like not allowing you to uninstall Safari. Oh wait, Apple does allow you to do that.

OK, like strong-arming your hardware partners into supporting only your software and not software from other vendors. Oh wait, Apple builds its own hardware.

:rolleyes:

The moral of the story: implications that Apple is just as evil as Microsoft but without the market share power are just absurd. Microsoft isn't evil because it's a monopoly. Microsoft is evil because it illegally leverages its monopoly.

Implications that Microsoft could truly shine if only unshackled from the oppressive chains of the world's courts (*weep*) are equally laughable.

Antitrust Different

P.S. Microsoft will never look like anyone's "best buddy" until they learn to write a decent piece of software. :p

AidenShaw

Jun 7, 2009, 11:45 PM

The moral of the story: implications that Apple is just as evil as Microsoft but without the market share power are just absurd. Microsoft isn't evil because it's a monopoly. Microsoft is evil because it illegally leverages its monopoly.

Yes.

And, what if I buy a new car that has an Ipod dock connector built in?

But I don't have, nor do I want, an Ipod. I want to use the music player that I currently use.

A court could decide that Apple has a monopoly in the music business, and force Apple to openly license the Ipod dock connector and other parts of the Itunes eco-system (hello - Palm Pre).

It could decide that a car with an Ipod connector illegally leverages Apples' monopoly.

Apple is a monopoly - but we have to wait for the courts to agree with that and slap them down.

Peace

Jun 7, 2009, 11:49 PM

Yes.

And, what if I buy a new car that has an Ipod dock connector built in?

But I don't have, nor do I want, an Ipod. I want to use the music player that I currently use.

A court could decide that Apple has a monopoly in the music business, and force Apple to openly license the Ipod dock connector and other part of the Itunes eco-system (hello - Palm Pre).

It could decide that a car with an Ipod connector illegally leverages Apples' monopoly.

Apple is a monopoly - but we have to wait for the courts to agree with that and slap them down.

That's a silly argument Aiden. If you bought a beemer and you had a different MP3 player you could just tell them not to put the iPod dock connector in it.

Almost all new cars come with an audio in connector.