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stevehaslip
May 10, 2004, 10:51 AM
im getting p****d off with my g5. everytime i go to search for something in finder it crashes. yes thats right crash! the shame of it!! i type anything into either the finder windows search box in the top right of the window or do a search by pusing apple+f and within seconds i get the spinning colour wheel thing and nothing responds. i cant click on anything and i cant hit apple+alt+esc to bring up the force quit window. i have no other option except to do a hard reboot. i tried searching in just my home folder for a file i knew was there and it worked fine. but everytime i try and search the whole hard drive it crashes. i thought macs didnt crash!!! it cant be that my 160gb drive is too big for finder because it used to work just fine!
i tried repairing disc permissions and doing the sudo daily, weekly and monthly tasks. and the same kind of crash happened in the middle of the weekly tasks!!!
its really p***ing me off that i cant even do a simple search of the whole computer! i thought that finder in panther was meant to be multi-threaded?
please someone suggest something to help!
cheers

gekko513
May 10, 2004, 11:45 AM
You should call Apple and explain the problem. It's 1 year Apple Care so if they can't help you fix it yourself, then you should be able to send it back and have them fix it, I think.

josepho
May 10, 2004, 11:54 AM
Have you installed any new RAM recently? I know that RAM which is even the slightest bit faulty can cause crashes all over the place... though whether or not it would fit your circumstances, I'm not sure.

Good luck getting it fixed :)

Fukui
May 10, 2004, 01:16 PM
Go Here (http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/),
Tell them your problem, and you won't put up with anything less than a complete re-write, no more paint jobs etc. In fact, I would suggest every single person here on macrumors to send it to them. Maybe if they got 10,000 letters saying how crappy the finder *still* is, they trash it and start over.

And to the original poster, the reason it is "multi-threaded" but doesn't really behave that way is the same reason Quicktime is "multi-threaded" and doesn't behave that way, its ported from Crap-OS 9 which was NOT a multithreaded or multi tasked OS...probably has some nasty pascal or something still lurking in that code...

stevehaslip
May 10, 2004, 01:49 PM
na i havent installed any new ram or anything recently, and it worked when i got my g5 last september and im sure i did a search since i put panther on it too. its just been the past month or so that it does it. it bugs the hell out of me that i cant search everywhere at once, how am i meant to be able to find something if i dont know where to look!? i dont have any other probs with crashing or anything, its nice and stable but isnt this one of the most simple things to get right?

gekko513
May 10, 2004, 02:44 PM
Try posting on the support forum on apple.com if you haven't already done that. If you're the only one (or one of few) with this problem, then I can think of three possibilities.
1. Some vital part of Finder or OSX has been damaged. This can be because some vital file has been deleted or changed. In this case you probably will have to reinstall OSX.
2. Or there can be a conflict caused by an installed program, some wierd corrupt file in the file system, some external device, or the file-system itself may somehow be corrupted. There may be clues to what causes the conflict in the Console logs (see Applications/Tools/Console). Solution hunt down the source of the conflict and remove/fix it. :) Probably easier said than done.
3. A hardware component is broken. Considering the nature of the problem it would probably be the hard drive or RAM.

I'm not really sure how reasonable this is or if it helps at all.

Tip ---- try listing through all files in the Terminal by typing the following and then the password of an Administrator:
sudo find /

This will take a while, but if it completes the listing without error, then your filesystem should be OK at least.

stevehaslip
May 10, 2004, 03:03 PM
thanks for your suggestions
i dont know if this could be in any way related but sometimes my network folder in "(insert your name)'s computer" doesnt have an icon. its there but it has no icon, weird huh?
ill try the sudo find after i look in apples forum.

Sun Baked
May 10, 2004, 03:23 PM
The only problem with Sherlock is that it can be corrupted by some plug-ins that somebody may have installed.

Some of these problems probably wouldn't crop up until there is an OS update that finally kills a plug-in.

Could also be a corrupt preference file, bad/corrupt index, and/or incorrect permission setting on a key file.

thatwendigo
May 10, 2004, 03:34 PM
I'm always amazed at the people who blame the finder for mistakes, when I've never had these issues. What makes you so certain that it's the OS and not a case of PEBKAC?

I've been using OS X since the beta of 10.0, and I've only ever had three kernel panics on nine macs being used by six people over the last four years. Granted, I do maintain them pretty decently, but still... You'd think that we'd have more problems if this was a hardware or software issue, considering that even little kids use one or two of the machines.

The best advice I can give you is to check all your connections, invcluding opening the case and being sure all your cards and RAM are firmly seated. Once you've done that, try running DiskWarrior (or anything other than Norton) to make sure that you don't have any major system issues. OS X tends not to break down the way Windows does, but you might need to either repair a directory or optimize the drive after a while. It's just good policy to do these things and should help you avoid future issues.

stevehaslip
May 10, 2004, 03:57 PM
thanks for everyones suggestions, i want this fixed but its not stopping me using my mac for work so it doesnt seem too serious at the mo, but if its gonna die in a months time then im not gonna be too happy. i got applecare when i bought my mac, but cant relly afford to do without my computer at the mo. im currently doing my final major project at college. i want to fix this but i cant afford to spend $90 on software, im a student:(

i did try the sudo find but after 3 mins it crashed! just like it did when i tried the sudo weekly tasks. i restarted and thought that if finder was being cranky then maybe if i deleted the preference file it might help? i tried searching again and it lasted about 2 seconds longer than before!

still not a fix though...

edit. i tried to do the hardware test from the cd/dvd that came with my g5 but its not exactly clear what it says to do and ive never had to do it before. i held down the apple(command) key like it says but it doesnt give me the option to choose a boot drive?

Sun Baked
May 10, 2004, 04:02 PM
How did fsck and Disk First Aid turn out?

stevehaslip
May 10, 2004, 04:14 PM
by fsck you mean the sudo find command in terminal? i did that again and it worked fine but it didnt throw up any errors. it finished fine, but then in the background finder crashed and i had to restart:(

i repaired permissions on the disc before, im doing it again now.

gekko513
May 10, 2004, 04:17 PM
i did try the sudo find but after 3 mins it crashed! just like it did when i tried the sudo weekly tasks. i restarted and thought that if finder was being cranky then maybe if i deleted the preference file it might help? i tried searching again and it lasted about 2 seconds longer than before!

still not a fix though...

This is good. This means we've started to narrow down the cause of the problem. This seems to point to some sort of corrupted file-system entry. If you're able to find out which file or folder it crashes on, then you may be able to delete it or fix it in some other way.

Sun Baked
May 10, 2004, 04:17 PM
by fsck you mean the sudo find command in terminal? i did that again and it worked fine but it didnt throw up any errors. it finished fine, but then in the background finder crashed and i had to restart:(

i repaired permissions on the disc before, im doing it again now.No I mean the file system check (fsck) you type in when you boot into single user mode (command-s).

Though Disk First Aid will probably require a boot from one of the System disks in order to repair your normal boot drive.

---

fsck and DFA both repair the catalog/file system errors on the drive, and will need to be run AGAIN if they make any repairs on the drive (they don't always fix everything in one pass).

Mav451
May 10, 2004, 04:19 PM
I'm always amazed at the people who blame the finder for mistakes, when I've never had these issues. What makes you so certain that it's the OS and not a case of PEBKAC?


ouch...

stevehaslip
May 10, 2004, 04:22 PM
ive never done the fsck check then, do i just restart in single user mode and hold command and s?
is that also why the hardware test wouldnt work, cos i have it set on multi user with the loggin window?

Sun Baked
May 10, 2004, 04:25 PM
ive never done the fsck check then, do i just restart in single user mode and hold command and s?
is that also why the hardware test wouldnt work, cos i have it set on multi user with the loggin window?Reboot and holding command-s will boot into single user mode.

There are directions on the screen for what to type in to run fsck.

When you are done type reboot

stevehaslip
May 10, 2004, 04:34 PM
i changed the prefs to loggin automatically as me, the admin user so its in single user mode and held shift but it doesnt work it just loads straight in to the os and starts as normal. am i not doing something right here?

Sun Baked
May 10, 2004, 04:40 PM
i changed the prefs to loggin automatically as me, the admin user so its in single user mode and held shift but it doesnt work it just loads straight in to the os and starts as normal. am i not doing something right here?

Reboot or turn machine on

immediately start holding command-s

follow directions on screen

type reboot

--- http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106388

Single user mode will boot to a text screen, no GUI.

It's as close to the to OS 9's booting with extensions off as you can get under OS X.

Mav451
May 10, 2004, 04:45 PM
On the windows side, a hard crash means that you wouldn't even get the "spinning beach ball" or similar progress meter, it just stops working! This means your CPU is probably undervolted, OR overheated.

Ram crash is almost always a cause for a restart--for games, that'd either mean crash to desktop or restart--for Macs it may be slightly different.

If your hard drive was really messed up, I don't think it would even be able to load the OS, though I WOULD be interested in seeing if you have "bad sectors" (or the Mac OS equivalent).

Perhaps a new firmware is needed (or BIOS equivalent?)

stevehaslip
May 10, 2004, 04:50 PM
ahh crap

i booted from the panther install 1 cd and opened disc utility and went to verify disc and got this message:

the volume check failed. error the underlying task reported failure on exit (-9972)

what does that mean? i take it that its not good>?

Sun Baked
May 10, 2004, 04:56 PM
Just repair the disk instead of verify, see if it'll repair it.

Though it may take multiple passes, until a clean one comes up or DFA says it's non-repairable.

If DFA can't do it run fsck (run until clean pass), then go back to DFA.

---

If there are errors that fsck and DFA can't repair, you may need to buy a drive utility.

stevehaslip
May 10, 2004, 04:59 PM
if it cant repair it then instead of buying a drive utility can i just call apple? or take it to a centre?

Sun Baked
May 10, 2004, 05:02 PM
if it cant repair it then instead of buying a drive utility can i just call apple? or take it to a centre?It's a software issue, which usually can be corrected by formating the drive to zeros and then starting over.

Or using a drive utility to repair the volume.

7on
May 10, 2004, 05:07 PM
Yeah, remember if fsck doesn't work and you're drive is pretty much, well fscked, your G5 is still under warranty so the hdd will be replaced for free. Yeah Finder doesn't like drive errors. Possibly the error is on an indexing file of finder. All in all cmd+s at the startup chime (hold down till the loading screen appears) and typing fsck -y should fix it (mulitple passes may be needed, just repeat multiple times until you get no more errors). You should be fine.

stevehaslip
May 10, 2004, 05:23 PM
i repaired the disc about 4 times and i got errors up until the forth time when it told me that it had repaired it.
in the previous attempts it told me that 1 drive could be repaired but 1 drive couldnt? there was an invalid file volume count?
it found several errors and so i did it again
now it seems ok i just have to try a search in finder
if it doesnt work still i have to try fsck.

stevehaslip
May 10, 2004, 05:24 PM
oh baby!
yeh it worked i tried a search and it worked!
so the moral of the story is that....

the mac community rules!

and

that you should always repair your disc every month?

edit. thanks to everyone who helped out and suggested things, it did the trick!

gekko513
May 11, 2004, 03:22 AM
It's great that you were able to fix it. I would also like to thank Sun Baked for teaching me the fsck procedure :) I may need it one day myself, although I hope not.