A dilemma - Should I sell my Mac?

[Jigglelicious]

About 6 months ago, i ditched my PC and got my first Mac. While I love Apple's products, I would normally never have switched, since i'm an avid gamer, and to put it mildly - Macs aren't all that great for games. While it took some getting used to, I've come to love OSX and my Mac, and I couldn't imagine parting with it.

Now comes the problem: I'm having gamers withdrawal. I guess old habits are hard to break, but I need a PC to quench the gamer in me. Not to mention, i'd also like to take up level design again. I can easily build a top of the line PC for about $500, and I pretty much intend to soon. The problem is, what should I do with my Mac? As much as I hate to admit it, there is really nothing I can do in OSX that I can't do in windows. And far more I CAN do in windows compared to my Mac. As much as i'd love to keep both, I don't really have the desk space (although I could buy a new desk), and I don't see the logic in keeping my Mac around for something as simple as web browsing and IMing, which I can do just fine on a PC.

I've put a lot of hard work into customizing my Mac, and I'd hate to sell it. But i honestly don't have a need for two computers. The electric bill alone is worth only keeping one. Does anyone have any advice? Maybe I should just bite the bullet and keep my Mac after all? While i'm not really short on cash (I can afford both), I simply don't have the NEED for both. Does anyone have more than 1 computer in the same room? Or both a Mac and a PC? How do you use them?

[Squareball]

Buy a playstation :)

[nyprospect]

what are the specs on the mac? or is it the emac.im about to switch but i do do much gaming.and i have a playstation but i understand that playing games on a pc is so much better.I like sports games and i can play those on the station.anyway what kind of mac do you have i maybe interested.Maybe ;)

[PowerMacMan]

Just switch back, you're a gamer and have no need for a Mac, so sell it and move on back to crappy windows, but it'll be better for games of course.

[nyprospect]

Is this the only issue with macs.They cant play games well.I hear the g5 crashes alot .im looking forward to the convention .

[Jigglelicious]

Buy a playstation :)

If only it were that easy :)

Actually, I do own a Gamecube, but gaming on a computer is nothing like on a PC. If I want to play an MMORPG, I need a keyboard and mouse. THere is just no [good] way to do it using a gamepad. On top of that, console games bore me lately.

And yes, its the eMac in my signature. I love it to death, but in the grand scheme of things, I don't really have any uses for it. I don't use iLife at all (except for iTunes, which is free, and available for windows).

Even if I did want to sell it, I wouldn't even know how. I don't like eBay, and trying to sell it on forums probably wouldn't be too successful.

<sighs> And all this time I was telling my friends how great OSX is, and that they should switch. Now, they'll be laughing at me, cause i'm the one who's switched back to windows!

[Espnetboy3]

wat u need to do is get a ps2, get socom 2 and get online with that , it has taken over my life .

[thatwendigo]

I can easily build a top of the line PC for about $500, and I pretty much intend to soon.

No, top of the line would cost you that much for the graphics card right now. You know, those shiny new NV6800 and ATI x800s? I love this myth. Everyone always claims they could build some nitro-burning funny car of a gaming rig for pennies, and when you go and spec out a system, getting even close to what actually is top of the line at the moment is more like $1400-2000 in parts alone.

Believe me, I've looked.

But i honestly don't have a need for two computers. The electric bill alone is worth only keeping one. Does anyone have any advice? Maybe I should just bite the bullet and keep my Mac after all? While i'm not really short on cash (I can afford both), I simply don't have the NEED for both. Does anyone have more than 1 computer in the same room? Or both a Mac and a PC? How do you use them?

I have an eMac that I use for daily taskes and which sits on my desk in my room, serving as jukebox and digital hub. It's what I do my surfing on, my email writing, and all the other mundane stuff. Then I have an older, upgraded G4 tower I game on. I play Halo and Warcraft III mostly, but the only game to run poorly on it so far is C&C Generals, and I've been reading how that's just very badly optimized.

Keep the mac.

[nyprospect]

Wow i wanted to switch myself and i to fell in love (figurtivley speakin i think) with the emac.now im hesitant again.i was looking at the voodoo pc rig.with all due respect to the mac users.im still not sure.unless at the covention steve jobs comes up with something good ill have to stay with the xp

[oingoboingo]

About 6 months ago, i ditched my PC and got my first Mac. While I love Apple's products, I would normally never have switched, since i'm an avid gamer, and to put it mildly - Macs aren't all that great for games. While it took some getting used to, I've come to love OSX and my Mac, and I couldn't imagine parting with it.

Now comes the problem: I'm having gamers withdrawal. I guess old habits are hard to break, but I need a PC to quench the gamer in me. Not to mention, i'd also like to take up level design again. I can easily build a top of the line PC for about $500, and I pretty much intend to soon. The problem is, what should I do with my Mac? As much as I hate to admit it, there is really nothing I can do in OSX that I can't do in windows. And far more I CAN do in windows compared to my Mac. As much as i'd love to keep both, I don't really have the desk space (although I could buy a new desk), and I don't see the logic in keeping my Mac around for something as simple as web browsing and IMing, which I can do just fine on a PC.

I've put a lot of hard work into customizing my Mac, and I'd hate to sell it. But i honestly don't have a need for two computers. The electric bill alone is worth only keeping one. Does anyone have any advice? Maybe I should just bite the bullet and keep my Mac after all? While i'm not really short on cash (I can afford both), I simply don't have the NEED for both. Does anyone have more than 1 computer in the same room? Or both a Mac and a PC? How do you use them?

It sounds like you've already answered your own question. You need to pick a machine which is the best tool for the tasks you wish to complete. If your primary interests are gaming and game level design, then there really is only one sensible platform to choose: x86/Windows. Although many good games are getting released for the Mac these days (UT2004, Halo, C&C Generals, BF1942, Call of Duty, Splinter Cell, WarCraft III, for example), the Mac simply doesn't have anything approaching the catalog of games a PC has, and many of the level builders and mod/patch tools aren't available either. In addition, with so many games being written to the DirectX API these days, it's an unfortunate side effect that when Mac ports of games eventually do appear, they often don't run as well as they do on similarly specced Windows machines due to porting and conversion issues.

While for $500 I doubt you will truly be able to build a real 'top of the line' x86 machine, you should still be able to put together something very decent. Mid-level graphics cards like the Radeon 9600XT are cheap and solid performers, and with major new releases from nVidia and ATI starting to dribble out, formerly high end cards like the 9700 Pro and 9800XT will probably drop in price soon too.

If you really can't afford to keep two machines due to space and financial restrictions, then at least you will probably get quite a good re-sale value for your Mac on places like eBay. Slower product revisions cycles in the Mac world mean that Mac hardware retains its resale value for longer. Depending on what model Mac you currently have (you don't say in your post), the re-sale of your Mac might even cover the cost of the new PC.

As long as you're prepared to accept the tradeoffs that come from running XP versus OS X (insert the standard list of XP/OS X comparisons here...left as an exercise to the reader), from your description of the problem, it really doesn't sound like there is any other logical alternative than to buy the platform that has the tools and software you need. It'll be a shame to get rid of your Mac, but I'm sure you'll be able to find a good home for it. :)

[Jigglelicious]

No, top of the line would cost you that much for the graphics card right now. You know, those shiny new NV6800 and ATI x800s? I love this myth. Everyone always claims they could build some nitro-burning funny car of a gaming rig for pennies, and when you go and spec out a system, getting even close to what actually is top of the line at the moment is more like $1400-2000 in parts alone.

Well by top of the line I mean "The fastest PC I can build without spending a boatload". Reusing my old case, DVD drive, etc, i can build something very powerful that should be able to play todays and tomorrows game at high resolution with all options turned on. This would be my current layout:

AthlonXP mobile 2400+(1.8GHz) OCed to ~2.4-2.6GHz = $77
Shuttle Nforce2 motherboard = $61
1GB PC3200 Kingston RAM = $150
Radeon 9800 Pro = $190
Samsung 80gb HDD = $67

Total = $545

Ok, so i'm cheating a little by reusing parts. But for the price, this system would simply scream.

And my Mac is in my sig. :)
Thanks again to everyone who has replied!

[ravenvii]

I'm in the same circumstances as you. I'm a gamer. And I love OS X.

What did I do? Get both! :D I have a iBook G3 that I use for everyday things - web surfing, mail, etc. And a monster of a rig that I built last year with Windoze XP installed on it. I keep the ethernet cable unplugged much of the time, as the rig is purely a gaming rig now - no AIM, no antivirus, no AdAware, no thing. Just Windoze and an army of games. A super-fast boot up into the desktop, and right there are icons to all the games on the HD. Almost as easy as a console! Which is what the PC essentially boils down to. A glorified console :D

[MrSugar]

They don't make a 1.4 ghz emac.... ?

[oingoboingo]

They don't make a 1.4 ghz emac.... ?

Could be overclocked, or maybe just a typo :)

[Jigglelicious]

Could be overclocked, or maybe just a typo :)

Its quite overclocked :)

[Darius]

They have quite a few keyboards for PS2. And now they have FFXI so you have a MMO. Consoles fill all my gaming needs. Granted I have all 3 of them. With the games out right now and the ones coming there is more than I can think of to play. Not to mention if you are into MMO's the mother of them all Everquest is available for mac.

[oingoboingo]

Its quite overclocked :)

Nice work :) Well, even a 1.4GHz eMac isn't ever going to be a great gaming machine due to the non-upgradable entry level GPU. Still...that's a nice compact machine for most other common computing tasks. Are you sure you can't find some room somewhere to stash it?

[Squareball]

If only it were that easy :)
Actually, I do own a Gamecube, but gaming on a computer is nothing like on a PC. If I want to play an MMORPG, I need a keyboard and mouse. THere is just no [good] way to do it using a gamepad. On top of that, console games bore me lately.


I totally understand, I was just being sarcastic when I made that comment ;)

I too don't care for console gaming. I have my PC next to my mac and I use it pretty much ONLY for playing games. I LOVE Madden football but don't care for it on the console. I am so used to the keyboard that a gamepad just throws me off. And then there are games like Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds.. of course that has a mac version.

You can always sell on Ebay. It's not that hard and I myself am about to sell my ibook (since my new one will be here tomorrow) on ebay. But you can also go to the forums and list it. Selling it is a pain in that you have to deal with processing the payment and shipping it out and all that but it might be worth it.

Or you can get a new hobby besides gaming... :eek:
Just kidding!!! That is such a horrible thought!

[Jigglelicious]

Nice work :) Well, even a 1.4GHz eMac isn't ever going to be a great gaming machine due to the non-upgradable entry level GPU. Still...that's a nice compact machine for most other common computing tasks. Are you sure you can't find some room somewhere to stash it?

Finding somewhere to stash it isn't the problem. My concern is that would use would I be getting out of it. I love OSX and I wish I could continue to use it. But there is no point for me to keep around a $900 computer just for web browsing and chatting online.

I *can* play games on the eMac decently. War3 runs very nice with all options turned on, and UT2k4 is decent with all options turned off. But performance is not my only concern. I have stacks of games that i've purchased - all for windows. I'm not about to go out and buy the same game again for the Mac. I think this is another huge problem that developers should address. With the exception of Blizzard, I can't think of any developer that puts both the Mac and PC version in the same box. Even UT2k4 which was released simultaneously for both, sell in seperate boxes.

For now, I think i'm going to keep my eMac around. I'll build my PC and see how having both works out. If I don't have room, i'll probably try to sell the eMac. I'd like to avoid ebay, but it might be my only option. (I have no feedback, and people don't like buying expensive items from people with no feedback. Also, how much % does eBay take from your sale?). I also have an old iMac (350mhz which I OCed to 500mhz - yep, i love overclocking!) which I can use when I want to try out Apples latest apps.

[krimson]

you might want to take out a classified ad first, before you go ebay, it's easier to get $$$

(ebay takes 1 or 2% i think.. paypal takes 3% to accept credit cards, iirc)

[Grokgod]

OK < I am going to stay calm here, and not spew spittle on my screen! :D

Firstly, I love all the quotes about the PC being a game machine.
Now that is SO funny only because it SO true!

But buying a Windoze box is just sad.

You must first realize that a gaming habit isnt that good for you.
Look at all the other addictions for related wisdom.

Being on a mac and not having all that many games to choose from is good news, I think,.. and has helped me get other things done.
Who wants to get old in front of a screen playing. lamers version2.

Buying a PC is NOT an option.
If your emac is not fast enough buy a lower G5!!!

Or get a X-Box thats a great dedicated game box and cheaper and I hear that they have speech integrated also, sounds like great addicted fun!

But I beg of you, dont make a horrible mistake and buy a PC,
YOU WILL REGRET IT!

I have SPOKEN! :cool:

[baby duck monge]

it's really a shame you have an emac instead of a tower. if it didn't have a built-in monitor, desk space would not be a problem since you could get a switch and run both boxes with the same keyboard/mouse and off the same screen.

that being said, if you think the mac would really have no use, you should try to sell it (though that would be disappointing since you have obviously put a lot of time into making it run to the limit of its abilities).

if you don't really need to sell it, though, i like the idea of leaving it off the internet except at times you wish to play an online game. use the mac for your internet needs, and the PC will stay much happier with much less effort.

other than that, you could try to integrate the emac into some sort of entertainment center as well as a fun computer to play around on. (you know you would love to throw that bad boy in another room of the house to show it off while keeping it useful)

[rueyeet]

You must first realize that a gaming habit isnt that good for you.Sorry, "find another hobby" is not an adequate or valid response to Jigglelicious' dilemma. A computer should do what you need it to do; no one should restrict their activities just to stick with a particular computing platform.

Jigglelicious--If you can only do level design in an x86 environment, and that's what you want to do, then it does kind of make having a Mac just to do everything else kind of superfluous. Though, before ditching your Mac, you might want to check into whether anyone is doing this kind of thing on the Mac side.... :)

[Moxiemike]

Since he's overclocked it, and essentially voided any apple warranty left on it as well as the potential to buy applecare, he could maybe only sell this email for less than 50%. Anyone who pays more than $399 for this, considering it's overclocked and possibly damaged already is crazy!

So yea. I wouldn't give more than $399, shipping included (big heavey monitor!)

m

[Crikey]

Now comes the problem: I'm having gamers withdrawal . . . As much as i'd love to keep both, I don't really have the desk space (although I could buy a new desk), and I don't see the logic in keeping my Mac around for something as simple as web browsing and IMing, which I can do just fine on a PC.

. . . I simply don't have the NEED for both. Does anyone have more than 1 computer in the same room? Or both a Mac and a PC? How do you use them?

Somehow I bet there are a lot of people at MacRumors who have more than 1 computer in the same room. I have several: an old dual-boot OS/2 + Windows 95 box with some legacy hardware that doesn't like to work in newer systems, an overclocked NT 4 box that I really need to clean off and donate (almost never used now), my main Windows 2000 box which I use once or twice a month, a 400MHz Pentium II which dual-boots Red Hat Linux 7.0 and BeOS 4.5 (I play with it a couple times a month; BeOS kicks ass), my "real" PC which runs Red Hat 9 but is going to try some new flavors soon, my antique PowerBook 3400c from eBay running MacOS 8.6, a Silicon Graphics Indy (also from eBay), and my dual-800MHz G4, which gets used more than everything else combined. I use a KVM switch, so there is only one monitor for all the PCs, one (huge) monitor for the Indy, and two monitors on the G4. It all doesn't take up as much space as it sounds. ;-)

Sometimes it is nice to have a Windows box around, if only for when my mom calls me for free tech support. And I do like playing with Linux, BeOS, and the Indy. When I first got the Mac, my usage was about split between Linux and the Mac. Now, I could get rid of everything except the G4 and not shed a tear. I don't play computer games, though.

Jigglicious, I don't know what to tell you. It sounds like you could go either way. Sometimes I think it would be nice to have just one computer; other times it's great to have a selection. If I ever wanted to reformat the Mac, or if it had some kind of hardware failure/downtime (knock on wood) I'd sure be glad to have my Linux box as a backup. If it were me, I think you can guess I'd keep the eMac, just because MacOS X is fun to use. But they are just tools, and you pick the most suitable for the task at hand.

Good luck!


Crikey

[Mantat]

I would just like to agree with the fact that hardcore gaming is life wasting. I used to be among the best player in EQ on my server and wasted over 24 PLAYED DAY in 14 months to this game! Thats about 17% of my life during this period. I had no life. I guess your case is not as extreme as mine but once I droped my gaming habit my life improved by 200%.

First of all, I lost weight and complete my master thesis. Then, I got a mac which confirmed my desire to stop playing and I finaly understood the real use of computer: creating content! I now spend most of my computer time playing with digital photography, making film (final cut) or programming. So when I go to sleep I can say to myself that I truly did something PRODUCTIVE while working on the computer. And the best part of it is that its fun to do! I scanned and digitaly restored all the pictures of my parents when they were kids. Seeing how happy they were when I showed them the pics, it really worthed it all.

Of course, I still play a bit but mostly on PS or XBox. And on the mac, I mostly play turn based strategy game so my computer is way fast enough.

So for a week or two, try to not play any games and go out have fun and the next time you are in front of the computer, ask yourself how you could do your creativity to do something. Just dont turn your brain off by playing games, there are way enough idiots in the streets already!

[Mantat]

You might want to wait.. I just saw on www.macbidouille.com that the next version of Virtual PC will have DirectX call the graphic card without any emulation. Basicaly this mean that any DX game will be playable on a mac and with speed almost as good as on PC. This is a BIG news...

[nyprospect]

If this is true about direct x im switching for sure

[Jigglelicious]

So for a week or two, try to not play any games and go out have fun and the next time you are in front of the computer, ask yourself how you could do your creativity to do something. Just dont turn your brain off by playing games, there are way enough idiots in the streets already!

Actually, I have not really played anything for nearly 5 months now. The only Mac game that I own which runs natively is War3. I also spent a bit of time playing Heroes of Might and Magic II over DOSbox, which was a ton of fun. But for the most part, I have not played anything. And while I sometimes don't mind not playing anything, other times I really wish I still had my PC around so I could play something.

And about the VirtualPC emulation bit - its of really no interest to me. Even if the next version DID somehow support full DirectX w/ 3d card support (although I find that doubtful), the emulation would still be painfully slow, and would most likely not be an enjoyable experience. Remember, JIT emulation of x86 -> PPC will be slow no matter what.

On top of that, i'm not all that sure DirectX emulation is all that great a thing either. For example, developers might take it as a sign to say "Hey, Mac users can just buy VirtualPC and emulate our game, so why spend the development time and money making a real port?". I believe it could actually hurt Mac gaming more than help it.

[gekko513]

Is this the only issue with macs.They cant play games well.I hear the g5 crashes alot .im looking forward to the convention .
What sources say the G5 crashes alot? If it's based on the people who report on having problems here on MacRumors then I don't think you should give that too much weight. Many people post here if they have problems because there are many here who can and like to help out.

That said, it may very well be possible that the G5s crashes a lot. I've just not seen any reliable statistics to back that up, but it would be interesting to see statistics on this kind of problems.

[nyprospect]

Im trying to remember where i read it .Im sure it was a forum.But every other person with a g5 said that the g5 crashed im not sure what model but they said while playing some demanding games the g5 would crash or there were forced to reboot.Ok i found it
http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/index.php/t-63587

[gekko513]

Yeah .. that is quite a disturbing thread when you read it, but there's only 4 of them, so it's not really anything that can back up a trend there. My old PC used to freeze up on some 3D games. That was quite annoying considering I actually paid for the games and they were useless. I don't really know what the problem was, but now I have a Mac that has never freezed on me and I'm quite happy.

Like I said, it's not good to take impressions from a forum and use them as facts or as relevant statistics because posts on forums can usually ble placed in one of two categories:

A: People like me who for some wierd reason started to enjoy discussing mostly meaningless things with others, voicing their opinion and correcting other people when they think others are wrong :D

B: People like you who have a question or a problem and are trying to get some help and information.

So when there is a thread with a particular problem, then people with that problem will flock to the thread. That particular thread does not make a representative selection of G5 owners. And like I said I would really be interested in some genuine info on this, but I guess that's difficult to come by. This news article (http://news.com.com/2100-1042_3-5162141.html?tag=cd_lede) refers to a Consumer Report survey that puts Apple at the top on support for desktop computers. The G5 had been out for 6 months, so I guess they can't be that bad.

[Steven1621]

just switch back and forth. that is what i do and it doesn't take much effort.

[hulugu]

Finding somewhere to stash it isn't the problem. My concern is that would use would I be getting out of it. I love OSX and I wish I could continue to use it. But there is no point for me to keep around a $900 computer just for web browsing and chatting online.
For now, I think i'm going to keep my eMac around. I'll build my PC and see how having both works out. If I don't have room, i'll probably try to sell the eMac.

I know someone else has mentioned this, but I think it is a good idea. Keep the eMac to use on the internet: surfing, messaging, email; and use it as a firewall to keep that delicate PC away from all those viruses, worms, and hackers. You can also use it as a server, a jukebox, a backup system, etc.
You may find that iLife will actually do some interesting things in the future for you.
It's too bad you can't play all the games you would like on the Mac, I've always liked consoles better so it's never been a problem, but I see where you're coming from. Good luck.

[cjc343]

I have a PC and a Mac. I use the mac daily, for pretty much everything, even gaming...

The PC, sits on my desk 24/7 and folds... although I am thinking of running a game server from it....


My suggestion: Keep the mac. For gaming, go to a LAN gaming place, there's probably one nearby, the trouble is finding it... If you really *want* a pc (I didn't want mine, I needed it for a programming class and it was cheaper to buy the PC than to buy VPC) then go and buy one, but don't give up your mac...


Oh, and nice job OCing the macs! I don't think I would be brave enough to do that to my mac... but the PC, overclocking that saves about 8 minutes per frame when folding.... now if only I had proper cooling...

Care to hand out the secrets to OCing a mac? (and not screwing up...) What's different from OCing a PC? Are you using jumpers? Cooling? VCore? I want to know more! (Where did you get a motherboard manual if you are using jumpers?)

[GorillaPaws]

here's your $45 solution, it's not pretty but it's cheap: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2432283&cat=103150&type=1&dept=4044&path=0%3A4044%3A103150
http://i.walmart.com/i/p/00/04/26/66/01/0004266601218_215X215.jpg

[Jigglelicious]

I have a PC and a Mac. I use the mac daily, for pretty much everything, even gaming...

The PC, sits on my desk 24/7 and folds... although I am thinking of running a game server from it....


My suggestion: Keep the mac. For gaming, go to a LAN gaming place, there's probably one nearby, the trouble is finding it... If you really *want* a pc (I didn't want mine, I needed it for a programming class and it was cheaper to buy the PC than to buy VPC) then go and buy one, but don't give up your mac...


Oh, and nice job OCing the macs! I don't think I would be brave enough to do that to my mac... but the PC, overclocking that saves about 8 minutes per frame when folding.... now if only I had proper cooling...

Care to hand out the secrets to OCing a mac? (and not screwing up...) What's different from OCing a PC? Are you using jumpers? Cooling? VCore? I want to know more! (Where did you get a motherboard manual if you are using jumpers?)


Building my own PC is already a given - something I have to do. I want to start level designing again, so going a console route isn't an option. Plus, I just hate console games :)

As for OCing a Mac, its not all that hard if you have the info on how to do it. There is plenty of information out there for overclocking eMacs. But the main reason why I was able to go from 800mhz -> 1.4GHz without any heat or core voltage issues was because Apple was actually underclocking the newer G4 chips, to keep their more expensive Powermacs and iMacs in demand. The eMac could have easily ran at 1.4GHz over a year ago, but Apple didn't want to put that much power in a cheaper computer. All I did was simply unlock that hidden power :)

[cjc343]

Well.. good luck, hope everything turns out fine in the end...

[Godfather]

what if u told us how to overclock it to 1.4 :D

[nightcap965]

You know, you don't have to restrict yourself to a single computer.

The last time I had only one computer was in 1986. True multitasking means multiple computers. You should have however many computers you need, plus one. Call it a test and development box. Don't you ever try out new operating systems, new programs, new tricks? With a spare computer, you can play with impunity.

Call it an "In Case of Emergency, Break Glass" computer. Having only one computer presumes that computers are as unchanging, reliable, and optional as a kitchen toaster. Weeks could go by in my house before I ever realized the toaster was busted. Days would pass before I'd find out the television was on the blink. My computers, on the other hand, are vital tools, both personally and professionally. I need a failover.

Call it a server. My older boxes tend to migrate to other purposes. My former Big Box (prior to the dual G5) is now running as a mail server (with antivirus and antispam), a file server (NFS, Samba, and Appletalk file sharing), a print server, et cetera. Linux can keep an older box running productively for a long time.

Call it a Significant Other box. One of the secrets of marital happiness is to never share a computer. They're called "Personal" for a reason. No significant other? Do you keep a spare toothbrush and a spare bath towel just in case there might be? If not, you're already spending too much time playing computer games - turn off the computer and go out!


:)

[hvfsl]

I'm in the same circumstances as you. I'm a gamer. And I love OS X.

What did I do? Get both! :D I have a iBook G3 that I use for everyday things - web surfing, mail, etc. And a monster of a rig that I built last year with Windoze XP installed on it. I keep the ethernet cable unplugged much of the time, as the rig is purely a gaming rig now - no AIM, no antivirus, no AdAware, no thing. Just Windoze and an army of games. A super-fast boot up into the desktop, and right there are icons to all the games on the HD. Almost as easy as a console! Which is what the PC essentially boils down to. A glorified console :D

Thats exactly what I do. I had a Mac first, but really wanted to play PC games, so I also built myself a gaming PC. Now I just use my PC for gaming and watching TV, and use my PowerBook G4 for everything else. :)

[quagmire]

About 6 months ago, i ditched my PC and got my first Mac. While I love Apple's products, I would normally never have switched, since i'm an avid gamer, and to put it mildly - Macs aren't all that great for games. While it took some getting used to, I've come to love OSX and my Mac, and I couldn't imagine parting with it.

Now comes the problem: I'm having gamers withdrawal. I guess old habits are hard to break, but I need a PC to quench the gamer in me. Not to mention, i'd also like to take up level design again. I can easily build a top of the line PC for about $500, and I pretty much intend to soon. The problem is, what should I do with my Mac? As much as I hate to admit it, there is really nothing I can do in OSX that I can't do in windows. And far more I CAN do in windows compared to my Mac. As much as i'd love to keep both, I don't really have the desk space (although I could buy a new desk), and I don't see the logic in keeping my Mac around for something as simple as web browsing and IMing, which I can do just fine on a PC.

I've put a lot of hard work into customizing my Mac, and I'd hate to sell it. But i honestly don't have a need for two computers. The electric bill alone is worth only keeping one. Does anyone have any advice? Maybe I should just bite the bullet and keep my Mac after all? While i'm not really short on cash (I can afford both), I simply don't have the NEED for both. Does anyone have more than 1 computer in the same room? Or both a Mac and a PC? How do you use them?

I have a 1st generation Powermac G4. I also have a rev b 12 inch powerbook 1 Ghz. I do have one lonely pc. It is currently collecting dust. I am going to open it up and that will be my gaming on the pc. Disecting it. Removing its proccesor, opening up its HD. That is my form of gaming on a PC. Just keep the mac. It has pretty good games on it. When VPC 7.0 comes out get it.

[quagmire]

And about the VirtualPC emulation bit - its of really no interest to me. Even if the next version DID somehow support full DirectX w/ 3d card support (although I find that doubtful), the emulation would still be painfully slow, and would most likely not be an enjoyable experience. Remember, JIT emulation of x86 -> PPC will be slow no matter what.

You did not just call the PowerPC slow. My rev b 1 Ghz powerbook G4 had beaten my brothers friend 3.2 Ghz dell in every speed test we did. Did you ever heard of the MHz myth. By the sounds of it I doubt it. Here is a video link explaining what it does.

http://www.apple.com.au/g4/myth/

[Jigglelicious]

You did not just call the PowerPC slow. My rev b 1 Ghz powerbook G4 had beaten my brothers friend 3.2 Ghz dell in every speed test we did. Did you ever heard of the MHz myth. By the sounds of it I doubt it. Here is a video link explaining what it does.

http://www.apple.com.au/g4/myth/

Sorry, but that made me giggle a bit :)

Yes, i've heard of the megahertz myth. And its very true. The problem is, it applies more to AMD's processors than it does to Apples. No matter how hard you wish, a 1GHz G4 will not beat a 3.2GHz P4. Hell, it wouldn't even be able to beat a 2GHz P4. I'm not trying to bash PPC, because even 1GHz is enough for just about anything you do on a computer except for heavy gaming or other processor intensive tasks. But the G4 is just NOT that fast. The only time a G4 would have a 1.5x speed advantage over a P4 would be in heavily vector optimized tasks (Altivec), and this isn't all that often.

Now AMD's processors on the other hand are *very* efficient, and are a clear indicator of the MHz myth. For example, an Athlon 64 running at 1.8 GHz easily beats a P4 running at 3.2GHz. Even Intel is starting to move away from the "more MHz = faster" deal, with their recent change to use the Pentium M core (which is actually their old Pentium3 core, which was far more efficient than their P4 core, but couldn't clock as high).

[Mav451]

The megahertz myth tends to only be relevant for Intel CPUs...and really only the Williamettes (the "bad" P4's), and NOT at the Northwoods (B, C processors, 533 and 800fsb respectively). If you want to compare sockets, Socket 423 = Williamette; Socket 478 = the rest (Northwood B and C). If you are buying for someone, for the love of god, do NOT touch the socket 423, even if its only if they GIVE it to you for free *_*

When i comes to it, however, its not the IPC that counts, but the cost. Who cares if it takes the P4's more clock cycles than a G4? The 1.7 P4 is obsolete now. The 2.8 or 3.0 P4 are now only $160 and $200 and give you essentially mid-high end gaming machines (used to be closer to $350-$500 just last year). Furthermore, these SINGLE CPU processors remain competitive with MP G4 systems (1.25 and 1.42) even to this day! Again, cost (and ironically processor efficiency... 1 vs. 2) come into play here.

The reason I'm an AMD fan and have been for the last 5 years is b/c AMD one ups Intel by being EVEN cheaper, and MORE EFFICIENT. Efficiency. Notice that AMD has not exceeded 2.4ghz this past year and for the last 3 years, not exceeding 2.2 ghz while maintaining a superior price/performance ratio.

-edit-
Notice I said price/performance, and not just performance. P4's were winning with the P4 3.2 (800fsb) in performance until the Opteron 146/FX-51 were released in September. But again, price/performance--as a consumer, these should be the top 3 concerns for us. The FX-51's were exorbitant in cost, but the cheaper Athlon 64 2800+ / 3000+ ($170 and $210 respectively) reintroduce price/performance again, while pure performance is retained by AMD through FX-series...for now :)

[floatingspirit]

...... Does anyone have more than 1 computer in the same room? Or both a Mac and a PC? How do you use them?

I do. I use the other for 24/7 downloading via Bittorent. The new one (G5), is babied, but the 'ol laptop is now a worker bee. Since it's the "old one" i don't mind leaving it on all the time as I collect interesting stuff from online.

[vollspacken]

what's the problem???

If you don't want your Mac, sell it for God's sake..!

there are a ton of people out there, eager to take that machine of your hands. I don't understand why you are bitching about how poor that eMac (and the Mac platform in general) is and how great your soon-to-be-gamin'-PC will be...

stop whining, sell that Mac and get your PC, if you think it fits your needs better, but don't try to start a Mac vs. PC flame war...

just my 2 Eurocents

peace

vSpacken

[vollspacken]

Does anyone have more than 1 computer in the same room? Or both a Mac and a PC? How do you use them?

yep, I've got three boxes (and an AE basestation) on a T100 network that I use on a regular basis...

- an 1Ghz tiBook w/ superdrive, Airport, running Panther, that is my main machine...
- an self-built 1Ghz Celeron PC, that my dad gave to me last X-mas... it has XPpro on it, two HDs and even though it's hooked up to to a decend 15" TFT, it's sitting in an closet. I access it with MS Remote Desktop Client from my tiBook and I use it for PC-only applications and as an iTunes music sharing server...
- the second computer in my room (besides my tiBook...) is my trusty and massively expanded Mac SE/30 (128MB Ram, 9GB HD, ethernet card) with a slimmed-down version of System 7.5 that serves as an eyecatcher, word processon & exel spreadsheeder (yes, I use that box for my word processing needs), as well as oldskool gaming machine... Shufflepuck, Prince of Persia, Indy III and so on... I'm currently modding a spare case and when that project is finished, I'll put netBSD on the second and third partition (each 4GB)

I also have a performa/PPC 5400/180 with TV card, video in, network, that I bought not long ago, but I don't have that much need for it and so I will probably sell again on eBay...

I have no problem with owning a PC, even though I personally would never use a PC with XP as my main machine (oooooooooooh, how I love Os X :D)

vSpacken

[rosalindavenue]

- an self-built 1Ghz Celeron PC, that my dad gave to me last X-mas... it has XPpro on it, two HDs and even though it's hooked up to to a decend 15" TFT, it's sitting in an closet. I access it with MS Remote Desktop Client from my tiBook and I use it for PC-only applications

Are there any limitations in accessing the PC with MS remote desktop client? I couldn't get a straight answer on this last winter and it kept me from switching. I need to remote access my PC network at work. Thanks-- and on the thread topic, I have to agree with the "gaming is a big waste of time" posts....

[vollspacken]

Are there any limitations in accessing the PC with MS remote desktop client?

well, I access the PC over Airport, so there is a slight lag when large amounts of data have to be moved (like watching a movie), but over T100 or even T1000 there should be absolutely no problem...

In fact, I'm typing these lines on that said PC on Firefox and I got so used to it, that surfing the web on MS RDC feels just like a normal browser for me... (right now I'm also listening to MP3s streamed to iTunes from that PC at the same time, no problem here)

...I wouldn't play games via RDC or edit pictures though (of course not... ;)), but I think this works better than VPC (I sold my copy of VPC6 about 1 1/2 years ago but needed a PC again) and it does not cost you anything if you happen to have an older PC somewhere...

I hope this helps, I can't say how this would work in some kind of protected corporate network though, but I assume there a ways of setting this up, too. what exactly do you want to do?

vSpacken

[gekko513]

As a reply to Mav451 and Jiggelicious.

When comparing processors I agree with Mav451 in that price/performance should not be forgotten in the discussion.

The G4 is still in general a lot faster per clock than the P4 as is AMDs processors. The G4 and the G5 has similar per clock performance and the dual G5 @ 2GHz generally beats a dual P4 @ 3GHz.

But the fastest G4 is just 1.5GHz which isn't enough to compete in performance with any of the other top-of-the-line processors. I'm just talking performance here, because I know the G4 at 1.5GHz is fast enough for most uses and that other considerations are more important when it comes to computer choice.

But back to performance. It isn't correct to claim that the P4 regained the general performance lead with the 3,2GHz model, but was then again beat by the AMD FX-51.

The P4 will have the best performance for some tasks.
The AMD models will have the best performance for some tasks.
The G5 will have the best perfomance for some tasks.

These three processors are all excellent modern processors, but I think we need a faster G5 soon. :D

Oh .. and for those of you with separate gaming PCs ... You should let that PC fold proteins when it is idle. See my signature.

[Mav451]

As a reply to Mav451 and Jiggelicious.

When comparing processors I agree with Mav451 in that price/performance should not be forgotten in the discussion.

The G4 is still in general a lot faster per clock than the P4 as is AMDs processors. The G4 and the G5 has similar per clock performance and the dual G5 @ 2GHz generally beats a dual P4 @ 3GHz.

But the fastest G4 is just 1.5GHz which isn't enough to compete in performance with any of the other top-of-the-line processors. I'm just talking performance here, because I know the G4 at 1.5GHz is fast enough for most uses and that other considerations are more important when it comes to computer choice.

But back to performance. It isn't correct to claim that the P4 regained the general performance lead with the 3,2GHz model, but was then again beat by the AMD FX-51.

The P4 will have the best performance for some tasks.
The AMD models will have the best performance for some tasks.
The G5 will have the best perfomance for some tasks.

These three processors are all excellent modern processors, but I think we need a faster G5 soon. :D

Oh .. and for those of you with separate gaming PCs ... You should let that PC fold proteins when it is idle. See my signature.


You are indeed correct...SSE 2 and other damn optimizations still make P4's win out in certain multimedia tasks :(

I should have been more specific--AMD won back the crown (on the PC side) in overall GAMING with the introduction of the FX-series. It was even more hilarious at how much of a paper launch the P4EE's were until more recently. Before the FX, however, AMD struggled to beat P4's in gaming b/c the Athlon XP had reached its chipset limitations...the 3200+ was good and all but still no match for the 3.2P4 in gaming. Ironically AMD themselves had been struggling with paper launching a lil over 2 years ago with the 2700/2800+ series vs. the 533fsb 2.6 and 2.8ghz P4 models.

*and that was the introduction of the nForce2/TBred combo*
Probably the most successful chipset/cpu synergy, and at a time when AMD had needed it desperately...KT400/KT333 just weren't enough anymore *_*

[gekko513]

I should have been more specific--AMD won back the crown (on the PC side) in overall GAMING with the introduction of the FX-series.

I sort of suspected you were talking about the gaming side of performance. :) In that respect, your argumentation seems valid. I'm more into the programming/compiling/cryptography side of performance. For most problems in those areas the old G4 shines clock for clock because of it's short pipelines. The G5 and the AMD processors are also good, but the P4 is terrible.

[Digidesign]

I would just like to agree with the fact that hardcore gaming is life wasting. I used to be among the best player in EQ on my server and wasted over 24 PLAYED DAY in 14 months to this game! Thats about 17% of my life during this period. I had no life. I guess your case is not as extreme as mine but once I droped my gaming habit my life improved by 200%.

Preach it brotha! :p

I used to play FFXI - great game, unfortunately terribly addicting as well. The thing I had to realize about MMORPGs is that they're there to drain you of your money, and they do it by forcing you to spend ridiculous amounts of time in-game to acheive anything.

Once I quit, my quality of life also improved.

[Ph4lynx]

I would just like to agree with the fact that hardcore gaming is life wasting. I used to be among the best player in EQ on my server and wasted over 24 PLAYED DAY in 14 months to this game! Thats about 17% of my life during this period. I had no life. I guess your case is not as extreme as mine but once I droped my gaming habit my life improved by 200%.

First of all, I lost weight and complete my master thesis. Then, I got a mac which confirmed my desire to stop playing and I finaly understood the real use of computer: creating content! I now spend most of my computer time playing with digital photography, making film (final cut) or programming. So when I go to sleep I can say to myself that I truly did something PRODUCTIVE while working on the computer. And the best part of it is that its fun to do! I scanned and digitaly restored all the pictures of my parents when they were kids. Seeing how happy they were when I showed them the pics, it really worthed it all.

Of course, I still play a bit but mostly on PS or XBox. And on the mac, I mostly play turn based strategy game so my computer is way fast enough.

So for a week or two, try to not play any games and go out have fun and the next time you are in front of the computer, ask yourself how you could do your creativity to do something. Just dont turn your brain off by playing games, there are way enough idiots in the streets already!

Thank you for making on of the most thoughtful and heartwarming posts I have read in a long time. You have really inspired me and now I realize that creating content really is the key to a fun and rewarding experience.

[Grokgod]

Happy to see that a few people agree with my feeling that gaming is sometimes an addiction and as an addiction its not healthy for your life.

There are plenty of enough games that work on the mac, enough to get your jones a little fix and forget about playing around and put the time and energy into your life! and create or work or love,baby!

I got C&C for my powerbook, runs great,
I play manybe once a week for a few hours, gets me to remember just how much of a bad thing can ruin your life.

[Jigglelicious]

Hmm, well, if I was going to sell it, can anyone recommend a good place to do it? I'd like to avoid eBay at all costs, as i've never bought/sold anything there, and thus have no feedback.

[wPod]

just sell it here in the forum. post it for sell then let people privatly e-mail you to work out the details. that way you avoid the costs involved in e-bay. but i would see what you could do about cramming 2 computers onto your desk. i have a peecee and my PB (with 19" external monitor) crammed together. i dont use the peecee very much. but it works when i need it. ill probably be upgrading my peecee when the new matrix game comes out (PC only. . . cant even get it for my PS2) so ill only turn the pc on to play. . . the rest of the time ill use my PB b/c its more stable and much more fun to use (and portable!)

[nyprospect]

Why dont you like ebay? its better that way.whoever bids has to pay you first via paypal or moneyorder or check if you want to spare your self of paypal fees ask they to pay money order.also to: wpod what are your pc specks and how does the powerbook hold up to the pc.

[----Bowie----]

If I were you, I would keep the eMac for now and see how much you use it.

[Anticipat3]

I think many of us have been in this kind of situation.

A couple years ago I sold my big gaming PC and bought a 12" powerbook, and I really loved the powerbook to death. I'd been big on linux, and had been kind of in a lul for games.

However, 5 months later I got the itch to play some games, sold the powerbook, and bought a gaming PC and an iMac that both sat on my desk. This worked out pretty well, but I saw tasks that had formerly been better on my Mac slowly shift to the PC -- Thunderbird evolved as a great mail client, I discovered Gaim for windows, I got Adobe Photoshop Album to replace iPhoto... and basically, I just leaned more and more toward using the PC, and the Mac became the IM box and the file/web server.

Needless to say, having around a $1000 file server wasn't really worth it, so I sold the iMac a few months ago. Now all I have is a PC, though I work on Macs all day.

Do I miss having a Mac? You betcha, but the only Mac that could really meet most of my needs is a G5 -- and a G5 that's powerful enough to game is simply far too expensive; much moreso than keeping around a gaming/serving PC and a Mac for daily tasks. Thus, I'm going to keep my PC, and get a powerbook to use for daily tasks.

Apple games have gotten a lot better, but they still fail to draw all of the major titles -- Having Doom 3 and UT 2004 and WoW will be a help, but they haven't drawn Halflife 2 or any of the Battlefield games, and as long as the hardware is so expensive, it's going to be hard to draw the PC gaming crowd.

[Calvinatir]

I only use my PC for partypoker...hehe