Contract and Subsidy Issues for iPhone Users Looking to Upgrade to iPhone 3G S

[Wayner83]

when I checked the website (apple) they said i would get standard iphone upgrade after 7/12/09. Does that mean I can qualify for an upgraded for the 199/299 pricing?

You will be eligible for the 199/299 price on or after July 12th of this year. Currently you are eligible for the 399/499 price. But hey, you are better off than most of the whiners on here.

[mjerald]

when I checked the website (apple) they said i would get standard iphone upgrade after 7/12/09. Does that mean I can qualify for an upgraded for the 199/299 pricing?

Same date here,

What's to stop one from pre-ordering one or picking up a 3GS on June19th. then returning it on or after upgrade date of 7/12/09 and getting the cheaper price within the 30days.

[BornAgainApple]

Can anyone tell me if I can still use my iPhone 3G as sort of an ipod touch if I cancel my contract?

Thanks.

[boyreinvented]

Can someone explain this? The first iPhone that came out in the UK was unsubbed. It was £275 odd.

To buy the iPhone 3GS PAYG in the UK is £540 odd. Why has the price of the device doubled? I know it has more memory and better internals but still, double the price?

£279 with an 18 month contract, EXACTLY the same price as the 3GS is now?! Your point?

[nemaslov]

Same date here,

What's to stop one from pre-ordering one or picking up a 3GS on June19th. then returning it on or after upgrade date of 7/12/09 and getting the cheaper price within the 30days.

You cant wait a friggen month!!?? That's crap! You'll pay more now and then a restocking fee. And if its used wont be able to return it.

[xerenthar]

i love the HURR THIS IS THE WAY THE WORLD WORKS HURRRRR READ YOUR CONTRACT simpletons.

most people are upset that there are wildly differing dates - from 7/2009 to 12/2009 to 3/2010 or later - and those dates DO NOT always comport with what AT&T guidelines are regarding length of contract, contract expiration date, and amount of monthly bill. there are people on this forum that have two identical separate plans with different dates. there are people on this forum that bought an UNSUBSIDIZED iPhone 3G and are unable to get 199/299 prices.

it's about inconsistency and that sort of unfairness first and foremost.

now come tell me how HURR I NEED TO READ A CONTRACT HURR.

[mvpkent]

Can anyone tell me if I can still use my iPhone 3G as sort of an ipod touch if I cancel my contract?

Thanks.

Yes. You can.

[smeagol]

What about original iPhone customers? I didn't get the iPhone 3G when it came out and decided to wait for the next version, so where does that place people like me in AT&T's food chain, do we get the deal or not?

[sishaw]

I am not sure how there can be any confusion on the pricing when you can go to either the Apple or AT&T site, choose either new or existing subscriber, if exisiting give some info and your current pricing pops up along with a future subsidy date. People signed a contract for 2 years, consider yourself lucky if you recieve any subsiby before the 2 year agreement you signed expires. Don't worry about what others are paying, look at YOUR price, if you think the phone is worth it, then buy it, if not, don't.


You are so right. The site tells one both the current price and the date on which can get the standard subsidized price. Thanks for pointing this out!

Meanwhile, I still enjoy my current iPhone very much and may or may not upgrade when my date rolls around, but I hardly think with all that goes on in the world it's worth complaining about not being able to upgrade right away. I know we're not supposed to engage in ad hominem attacks, but some people are sounding like very spoiled children.

[iSimx]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm sorry, but seriously! This is the reason I DID NOT upgrade my iPhone to a 3G model. I THOUGHT AHEAD. My contract has now expired and I'll get a 3GS model. YAY FOR ME!

If you couldn't wait, that's just tough. No one forced you to buy an iPhone 3G. Get over it.

And next year when Apple release the next iPhone you'll be in the same situation and stuck in the 18 month contract and we'll say - lol should have waited that extra year!

[sharkzfanz]

I took two posts to reply to although there are dozens of people who have no understanding of business. They assume companies are not out to make money…. If you were in business would you want to make money?? Did you never have a cell phone with an upgrade date in the past or were you b&%#tching then too!!!

What about those of us who bought a 3g last summer but did not get any form of subsity on the purchase because our current 2 year agreement had only a few months into it. I bought a 16GB 3g on july 11th for the full meal deal, not the $299 reduced price because only 10 months had gone by on my last contract. I was hoping to upgrade to the 3gs but now it looks like I will not be because there is no way that I'm paying another $599 for the voice and video features that have been added. I guess I will be waiting for the
3gxsffc (extra speed forward facing camera) version that will be released in 2010!

Here’s the first one: He states “What about those of us who bought a 3g last summer but did not get any form of subsity on the purchase because our current 2 year agreement had only a few months into it. I bought a 16GB 3g on july 11th for the full meal deal”

Lets see the phone’s full retail for the 16GB is $699.00….. You bought it on July 11th, 2008 for $499.99 as the $699.00 was not released until Late March 2009 so you did buy it for the subsidized price. New customers get it for $400 off and existing get one shot at $200 off then its full. You used your one shot at $200 off and thus now have to pay full retail. This is not that hard people!!!!

Ok here's what I'd like to know... I purchased an 2G on launch day (unsibsidized right?) and a 3G on launch day (subsidized), that adds up to almost 3 yrs of an ATT contract but only one subsidized phone. So why wouldn't I be eligible for the same subsidized pricing as someone at the end of a 2 yr or even 18 month contract. I think this is a very valid point. Sry if someone else already brought this up but I didn't see any post on this specific point.

You will be eligible after 2 years…. 2 years from when you got the 3g iphone. This is not hard….

[LagunaSol]

I think 3GS sales will be a bust if the two companies can't work something out.

So...you think cell phone device sales are doomed under the current 2-year-contract subsidization system?

This phenomenon isn't exclusive to Apple/AT&T, you know.

[BornAgainApple]

Yes. You can.

Thanks. That's what I thought, but I wanted to make sure before I cancelled. I have a company phone now (Crackberry :mad:) so it didn't make sense for me to shell out the $75/month. I just would like to keep the iphone for the apps and stuff.

[.:R2theT]

i love the HURR THIS IS THE WAY THE WORLD WORKS HURRRRR READ YOUR CONTRACT simpletons.

most people are upset that there are wildly differing dates - from 7/2009 to 12/2009 to 3/2010 or later - and those dates DO NOT always comport with what AT&T guidelines are regarding length of contract, contract expiration date, and amount of monthly bill. there are people on this forum that have two identical separate plans with different dates. there are people on this forum that bought an UNSUBSIDIZED iPhone 3G and are unable to get 199/299 prices.

it's about inconsistency and that sort of unfairness first and foremost.

now come tell me how HURR I NEED TO READ A CONTRACT HURR.

And anyone in that situation has an honest complaint and should have something done for them.

Everyone else needs to grow up.

[crisss1205]

I don't know if this was mentioned before but here is my scenario.

I purchased an iPhone then upgrade to an iPhone 3G in August for $299. Now I will qualify for the iPhone 3G S at the $199/$299 price 12 months later. (This August)
My mother is new to AT&T and got an iPhone 3G, she now has to wait 18 months to get the full discount of the iPhone 3G S

[gentleman00]

Look at it this way. When the next version of the iphone comes out, presumabely this time next year, the 3G users WILL be able to upgrade to it. I also suspect Apple has taken this into consideration since the 3GS was really little more than a spec bump. I'm wondering if the release of a totally redesigned iphone will be timed for when the 3G customers contracts are up.

Of course, all the people who buy 3GS's will be the ones complaining because they can't upgrade to the new iphone.

Yes, I agree. This is becoming messy. Anyone who buys an iphone today will complain next year when the new iphone comes out.

Make the contracts one year long instead of two years.

[mvpkent]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm sorry, but seriously! This is the reason I DID NOT upgrade my iPhone to a 3G model. I THOUGHT AHEAD. My contract has now expired and I'll get a 3GS model. YAY FOR ME!

If you couldn't wait, that's just tough. No one forced you to buy an iPhone 3G. Get over it.

I have a friend who has been lookin to buy a new LCD tv for the last two years because he keeps saying the prices are dropping. Meanwhile I bought 2 LCDs in the last yr and have been enjoying them very much while he's still staring at his old tube waiting for prices to bottom out. That's great if you waited, maybe you should wait one more year and then you could post the same comment again.

[Xibalba]

Some CLARITY from AT&T would be nice.

My dad and I both bought original iPhones on opening day 2007 (same store), then we both upgraded to 3G last September (same store). We have identical (but unconnected) contracts: same text, voice & data plans.

My price for 32gig 3GS: $499

His price for 32gig 3GS: $699

Are they just flipping a coin? Pulling numbers out of a hat?


THIS is the BIG problem - complete lack of consistency on the "eligibility determination." And of course the other problem would be those whining about subsidies and expecting everything to be given to them.

Personally, I owned both the 2G and 3G iphones and now I will need to pay $399 instead of $199 for the 16 GB 3G S. I find that to be a fair price and if the faster processor improves performance on key applications for me then I will gladly pay the $200 difference without hesitation. For me though the purchase would be a tax write-off since I use the iphone daily for work.

[Chaos123x]

Can anyone tell me if I can still use my iPhone 3G as sort of an ipod touch if I cancel my contract?

Thanks.

Well sort of. As long as you don't restore it.

Once it is restored it will lock itself.

If your gonna use it as a touch just jailbreak it.

Maybe you could use it on T-mobile if you want.

[sharkzfanz]

Look instead of moaning go on Ebay or Craigslist sell your iPhone 3g and go online and pre-order the 3g(s).... Simple as that!!!

I posted my 8GB 3g iphone today and sold it within 5 hours!!! I posted it for $320 and had 15 replies... I sold it for $330.. Now I have a gift card for the rest but lets assume I didn't.

$399.00
$ 36.91 tax 9.25%
$ 18.00 upgrade fee (mine is waived but for math purposes)
--------
$453.91 (Total after phone, tax, upgrade fee if not waived)
-$330.00 (From Selling 8GB 3g)
---------
$123.91 Out Of Pocket for New 3g(s) phone..

How hard was that!!!!!!!!!!!

Instead of Bitching just make it happen... If anyone has an issue with $123.91 you shouldn't have an iphone.

[ajnicho]

I can't see Apple's sales being anywhere near as good compared to the 3g, there are not many customers out there that will go for the 3gs having never had the 3g. The majority of Apples customers will be those upgrading. I'm not saying they should just subsidise already tied-in customers, but it's not the best strategy.

[Xibalba]

I have a friend who has been lookin to buy a new LCD tv for the last two years because he keeps saying the prices are dropping. Meanwhile I bought 2 LCDs in the last yr and have been enjoying them very much while he's still staring at his old tube waiting for prices to bottom out. That's great if you waited, maybe you should wait one more year and then you could post the same comment again.

absolutely excellent response! i find it so humorous when people say they are waiting for a product purchase for years to "save money" - i guess that's what they tell themselves every day while they miss out on all of the benefits.

humans are sometimes so illogical...

[reifer]

I absolutely understand that when I got a subsidized phone I had to sign the 2 year contract and can't get out of it without paying. Not an issue.

What is an issue for me is that if I do pay off the contract (and then get a new 3GS by signing a new 2 yr contract) why can't I get the old iphone, fully paid off and owned by me, unlocked so that it has some value? It's now my phone, paid for in full by me but, it is still locked to ATT which seriously depreciates the value. If I had a similar deal with another phone, I'm pretty sure that at the end of the day, I could legally get it unlocked to use any way I wanted. I could sell it or figure out another way to use it.
That's something that would make me feel better. Frankly, it's only fair. Actually it is unreasonable and probably should be illegal for them not to do it.

I see a lot of BS class action lawsuits out there that are just stupid. This is one that makes sense and should be pursued.

[gentleman00]

I am surprised Apple let this happen.

Firstly, I understand why AT&T and O2 are doing this in line with how their mobile phone contract model works, which is fine IF this were just a mobile phone. Its not...

Its a platform for application vendors to put next gen mobile applications, the likes of which we haven't seen yet into the hands of, well, everyone. And Apple stands to punch that ticket each time an app is sold... The revenue stream for Apple is not solely the sale of the handsets, long term app sales will make more money than profit on the device. What this move has done has set the biggest app consumers (the fanboys) and early adopters up to NOT be on the latest hardware. This means the application vendors will be targeting the platform that most people have, the existing 3G model and not the new features of the 3GS. The platform will stall for at least 6 months. Enough of a window for something else to come along...

Think that wont happen? Well look... Apple themselves have said there are 40 million handsets out ther currently, a lot of people who are likely to want an iPhone, already have one. Most of them wont upgrade due to the contracts, and new customers wont exactly flood in. Add to that the fact that pretty much all 3G users (in the UK) are on the same length of contract, expiring at around the same time. If they arent going to buy themselves out of a contract, they arent likely to lock themselves in to another 18 month contract 6 months out from the potential launch of a new device. By any logic, the 3GS will be in far fewer hands than the 3G. No app vendor is going to want to limit their market, therefore the new features on the 3GS will not be exploited nearly as much as Apple would hope by app developers. Therefore stale platform... Better products have died because of similar issues.

This can only play into the hands of competing platforms.

Here is a final suggestion to O2 customers who are looking to upgrade... Consider buying phone insurance that includes contract / upgrade insurance. That way you can invoke the upgrade clause in your insurance policy when you need to get out of one contract in order to upgrade. The premiums cost less that the contract buy out so for situations like this it is perfect.

I can only imagine next time round, Apple and the carriers might work to align the release cycle with the pay-off of the phones since the last release. i.e. 18 months between releases or 12 month contracts.

I have pretty much decided to skip the 3GS at least until its more favorably priced or I can invoke my contract get out clause.

I agree with you completely. iphone 3Gs will suffer if favorable contracts are not offered to existing 3G owners to upgrade.

[archi17]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11a Safari/525.20)

Look at it this way. When the next version of the iphone comes out, presumabely this time next year, the 3G users WILL be able to upgrade to it. I also suspect Apple has taken this into consideration since the 3GS was really little more than a spec bump. I'm wondering if the release of a totally redesigned iphone will be timed for when the 3G customers contracts are up.

Of course, all the people who buy 3GS's will be the ones complaining because they can't upgrade to the new iphone.

You are the first person that thinks clearly on here! Most people can't see past the shiny back of the 3GS and think that just live without your digital compas and wait until next year when your contract is up and the the new new iPhone that got an awesome upgrade

[Chaos123x]

Look instead of moaning go on Ebay or Craigslist sell your iPhone 3g and go online and pre-order the 3g(s).... Simple as that!!!

I posted my 8GB 3g iphone today and sold it within 5 hours!!! I posted it for $320 and had 15 replies... I sold it for $330.. Now I have a gift card for the rest but lets assume I didn't.

$399.00
$ 36.91 tax 9.25%
$ 18.00 upgrade fee (mine is waived but for math purposes)
--------
$453.91 (Total after phone, tax, upgrade fee if not waived)
-$330.00 (From Selling 8GB 3g)
---------
$123.91 Out Of Pocket for New 3g(s) phone..

How hard was that!!!!!!!!!!!

Instead of Bitching just make it happen... If anyone has an issue with $123.91 you shouldn't have an iphone.

That would be cool if you could sell it like that.

But ya know I kept my iPhone in case at all times and never dropped it, but the black plastic casing is cracking. Can't sell it for much like that.

[boyreinvented]

And next year when Apple release the next iPhone you'll be in the same situation and stuck in the 18 month contract and we'll say - lol should have waited that extra year!

I won't be bitching about it. I know that will be the situation. I will be patient and wait to the following year. I won't expect 02 to release me from my contract early. Why would I?!

[.:R2theT]

I can't see Apple's sales being anywhere near as good compared to the 3g, there are not many customers out there that will go for the 3gs having never had the 3g. The majority of Apples customers will be those upgrading. I'm not saying they should just subsidise already tied-in customers, but it's not the best strategy.

Actually I think Apple/AT&T market share is going to increase dramatically with the $99 8 GB 3G. That is the "shuffle" of the bunch!

[Xibalba]

Can anyone tell me if I can still use my iPhone 3G as sort of an ipod touch if I cancel my contract?

Thanks.

i currently still have my iphone 2G (since i never got around to selling it) and restored it to erase data and it behaves just like an itouch with WiFi but no cellular. i would assume that the 3G would work the same...

[nemaslov]

I remember the time when I had a telephone from Ma Bell in my home. We had that same photo for maybe ten years. Most of you here would have pissed your pants. :eek:

[iCHIO]

Yes, I agree. This is becoming messy. Anyone who buys an iphone today will complain next year when the new iphone comes out.

Make the contracts one year long instead of two years.

Hopefully they will have better options for us by the next iPhone release.

[Chaos123x]

Actually I think Apple/AT&T market share is going to increase dramatically with the $99 8 GB 3G. That is the "shuffle" of the bunch!

Yeah but is this just back stock? or are they making more?

[surferfromuk]

Can someone explain this? The first iPhone that came out in the UK was unsubbed. It was £275 odd.

To buy the iPhone 3GS PAYG in the UK is £540 odd. Why has the price of the device doubled? I know it has more memory and better internals but still, double the price?

Furthermore, presumably as the subbed price of the current 3G iPhone has dropped, the price of the ubsubbed PAYG one would drop but it hasn't. It's still the same and still way more than the original iPhone price of £275.

I got the 3G on launch day and have 7 months of my contract left. Apple probably won't release a new iPhone in 7 months time. Having a device cycle of 12 months and contract cycles of 18 months doesn't work out. Especially when it comes to Apple, where people are used to buying their devices when they want to, not when they are told they can.

I agree. This is exactly what peeves me....

I want a 3GS now not in December...plus I'll go one further I'll want whatever iPhone Apple release next June as well, and I don't want this crap again. So the telco's and Apple had better sort this out somehow...

As for all the people who think we shut just shut up and accept it I'll say this...Why the heck wouldn't I want the latest greatest iPhone on my £35 per month airtime contract???


1) I've bought 2 iphones and paid for 24 months of airtime with o2. Approximate spend £1200 ( $2500). I'm happy to do this. No complaints at all. Great product, good service.

2) I'm happy to renew my contract now and pay another £200/£250 for a new iphone right now. Seems like a fair deal no?

but I am NOT going to pay £500 + £35 * 6 months airtime TWICE!! to get it...I'm not stupid - terminating/renewing with a remaining airtime penalty and paying for 6 months airtime I don't use then paying again (in my new contract) for the same 6 months airtime I just got charged for not using is criminal isn't it?

There must be a way, and yes as an Apple user I expect to be treated differently. I won't tolerate the ***** the rest of the world seem willing to put up with.

Apple users expect more - that's part of the deal right?

Really are these phones costing £700 to make because that's the only conclusion I can come to over this mess...

[mvpkent]

That would be cool if you could sell it like that.

But ya know I kept my iPhone in case at all times and never dropped it, but the black plastic casing is cracking. Can't sell it for much like that.

Yes you can. Look at what 3Gs with smashed screens go for...over $200. Someone buys it for $200, fixes it for $50 more, and then resells it for over $300. There is a huge market for used iphones...even 2G.

[Habakuk]

Man that's complicated. I don't want to take months of lessons for understanding that. Come on Apple, carriers! Keep it easy. Let the people upgrade if they want but don't let them go starving.

I have my white 3G now for almost nine months (molto contento--have a look at my blog in the sig please) and would pay $100 or maybe even $150 for a white 3G S without changing anything on my plan (maybe starting a new two-year contract), without additional fares for tethering or MMS. The iPhone is expensive enough (but worth every cent).

But I don't need two devices. My "old" 3G is in very good shape. I would give it back and they could resell it again as refurbished or something with a new contract... Or they let me unlock it and I sell it in "official virgin" shape after upgrading and migrating all the apps and so on.

And I don't understand completely why Apple announces "the new iPhony costs $99, $199, $299..." when it's the two years plan what is absolute ruling for the costs! It sounds a bit like dupery in my ears. Here in Austria you can get the 8GB 3G for "€0.0" (what they are announcing in the tv spots but it is nothing but a lie).

I love my iPhone, but the two hugest drawbacks are the battery runtime (you can buy additional battery packs) and the lame carriers (almost all over the world; and you can do nothing against it other than jailbreaking).

[.:R2theT]

Yeah but is this just back stock? or are they making more?

I don't have any inside info or anything but the 16 GB 3G is the only one listed "while supplies last".

[boyreinvented]

I have a friend who has been lookin to buy a new LCD tv for the last two years because he keeps saying the prices are dropping. Meanwhile I bought 2 LCDs in the last yr and have been enjoying them very much while he's still staring at his old tube waiting for prices to bottom out. That's great if you waited, maybe you should wait one more year and then you could post the same comment again.

I didn't think slightly faster internet and a GPS chip were reason enough to upgrade. I didn't miss them. There's plenty of WIFI around and my iPhone does a pretty good job to tracking using phone masts, without the GPS.

Are you going to upgrade every year on the day of release? If that's your plan, you're Apple's wet dream.

[jhsfosho]

I agree that contracts should be one year instead of two years. Two years is a long time and a lot of stuff can change in two years. Also, I don't see why iPhone 3g users think they should be eligible for the new iphone even though they haven't had their iphones for the required time. Before the iphone came out it was the same way. iphone users knew going into it that they were signing a contract for two years. If they wanted the 3g(s) so bad they should have waited.

[nemaslov]

Yeah but is this just back stock? or are they making more?

Well it has many of the new updated software features like cut and paste and so on. Just not the faster speeds and sizes.

[Banyan Bruce]

I got an iPhone 3G on launch day in the UK and signed an 18 month contract at £45 a month and got the phone for free as it was subsidised.

12 months later, I don't expect an upgrade or treatment different to other o2 customers. I do expect an upgrade in December.

An 18 month contract is an 18 month contract - get used to it.

I agree 18 months is 18 months....but this extra tethering charge for my "unlimited data" really really grates. O2 are simply moving the goal posts. When they lose the iphone contract ..and I hope that is soon, they will lose me and 3 family members, and when the upgrade gets offered in Dec I'll think very seriously about buying on a PAYG basis, so I can ditch O2 ASAP.

[iSimx]

I won't be bitching about it. I know that will be the situation. I will be patient and wait to the following year. I won't expect 02 to release me from my contract early. Why would I?!

lol..... whatever *shrugs* :D

[xerenthar]

iphone users knew going into it that they were signing a contract for two years. If they wanted the 3g(s) so bad they should have waited.

why do people repeat this lie that the first gen->3g was the same way

[tuna9720]

I don't understand why apple or att NOT letting people to get the new iPhone for subsidized price?

The reason is;

First of all people are not asking anything free , obviously you are going to start a new 2 years contract. The good news for att is , customers are at least going to keep paying another 2 years.
Good news for Apple is , more people will buy this year's iPhone.. So what is wrong with that?

When more people want to buy a product seller should make it available .. That is the easiest rule of selling and buying.. Especially in this economy what would be the wrong for apple to sell more iPhone to more customers?

I understand when people say, "Well, get use to it , you have 2 years contract!" .. I know that , everyone knows that , but isn't their purpose selling more and making more profit? Are we not in the same planet with the same trading rules??

Ps: I am not talking about what fine print says. We all know what it says but is that really wise when there are people out there asking to pay for their product and they say "Sorry, we can't sell it to you for the convenient price!" Is this really wise?

[troller]

Rip:apple:ff that's all I can say.....

[mattster16]

What a bunch of whiners!

Apparently nobody understands that they signed a contract that has terms and conditions and is a legally binding document?

I bought the original iPhone on launch day and have been using it since. Now I am going to upgrade to the 3GS. I don't expect to be handed a new phone every time there is an upgrade, nor do I need a new phone every year either.

Why would you expect AT&T to bend over backwards for iPhone customers to 'make an exception, please!!!'?? They don't do this for the users of any other phone, they all have to follow the standard upgrade policies.

Where is this 'random dates' theory? Reading this thread it all seems to make sense to me. $99+ you get an upgrade after 12 mo. Less you get one after 18 mo. You should feel lucky AT&T isn't making you wait until (god forbid!) your entire 24 month contract is up like it always used to be several years ago.

People just expecting something for nothing...

[Chupa Chupa]

How (or maybe why) is there ANY confusion over ATT's upgrade policy? They have it clearly laid out on their web site: http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/why/upgrade-advantage.jsp

I'm really baffled why this is still burning up the forums.

[gkovler]

for what it's worth: although it impossible to find this info on the att site and nobody at apple has it, i have now been told by att that in their internal documents it states that after 18 months of the contract on the 3g, customers are eligible for the standard upgrade pricing on the 3gs.

[carmenodie]

c'mon! everybody knows that tech changes daily so if you buy something today, tomorrow it is upgraded. The car industry is notorious for that stuff.

[xerenthar]

Where is this 'random dates' theory? Reading this thread it all seems to make sense to me. $99+ you get an upgrade after 12 mo. Less you get one after 18 mo. You should feel lucky AT&T isn't making you wait until (god forbid!) your entire 24 month contract is up like it always used to be several years ago.

People just expecting something for nothing...

i love the HURR THIS IS THE WAY THE WORLD WORKS HURRRRR READ YOUR CONTRACT simpletons.

most people are upset that there are wildly differing dates - from 7/2009 to 12/2009 to 3/2010 or later - and those dates DO NOT always comport with what AT&T guidelines are regarding length of contract, contract expiration date, and amount of monthly bill. there are people on this forum that have two identical separate plans with different dates. there are people on this forum that bought an UNSUBSIDIZED iPhone 3G and are unable to get 199/299 prices.

it's about inconsistency and that sort of unfairness first and foremost.

now come tell me how HURR I NEED TO READ A CONTRACT HURR.


HTFH

[.:R2theT]

why do people repeat this lie that the first gen->3g was the same way

Because so many of the current 3G users that want the 3GS can't seem to understand that it isn't a lie.

[michelle21]

THIS is the BIG problem - complete lack of consistency on the "eligibility determination." And of course the other problem would be those whining about subsidies and expecting everything to be given to them.

Personally, I owned both the 2G and 3G iphones and now I will need to pay $399 instead of $199 for the 16 GB 3G S. I find that to be a fair price and if the faster processor improves performance on key applications for me then I will gladly pay the $200 difference without hesitation. For me though the purchase would be a tax write-off since I use the iphone daily for work.

I'm not sure which I am getting more tired of. The posters complaining they are getting screwed (I am guilty of that yesterday) or the "its the contract" dummies, that's how business works.

Yes it does, I thought I passed a few people holding "I will work for food" signs,. Yes all these business models really work.

But lets get back to reality.

Myth 1 - Att out of the kindness of heart gave us a freebie last year.
Not so, if you had the 1st gen Iphone , you paid full price, your 3g WAS your first subsidized phone.

Myth 2 -All this posting is going help because att and apple will work something out. Doubt it, heard that before. Troops will be home because a deal is being worked out. Same thing different context.

Myth 3 - Att is going to lose on this - doubt it, new customers get the discounted price, 3g owners are still locked into a contract.

Myth 4 - Apple will do something about it.

This may not be a myth because Apple tends to lose the most, but remember they must of knew what was coming and maybe figured that into sales figures.

Iphone sales may not be as big as the last launch.

There may also be few apps taking into account the new features except from larger software providers.
This is actually a unique situation, the sdk came out about the time the 3g was announced, and the open developer program shortly thereafter, so except for maybe those in one of the closed betas all developers purchased their 3g about the same time. Meaning the vast majority of developers in the developers program are ineligible for the discounted price.

Larger software firms, which I have to think are a small piece of the 5000+ developers will most likely upgrade.
Corporate developers who are testing the waters may or may not, but probably arn't going to contribute to the app store anyway.
So that leaves the rest. The app Store is much like a self publishing book firm, staring cost can be as low as 0 to some artbitrary number, many are part time and have families and may not upgrade.
Breaks down as follows.

1) some will pay the premium.
2) some like me will add an additional line, something I've been considering for a while .
3) and many won't upgrade, meaning few (at least cheaper priced) apps to take adavantage of video, voice and the other new feature not avalable on the 3g. Couple that with the fact in additon to the 399 price the renewal period on the developer contract comes up soon which is another 99.00 , and Apple could have problems.

Couple that with fallout if 3gs sales fall below market expectations.

It is possible Apple may do something, like the "solution" after the first 3g price cut, when early adopter weren't too happy paying full price. Or maybe more likely nothing will be done. But as I see it the ball is in apple's court not ATT.

Just one girls opinion.

[mvpkent]

I didn't think slightly faster internet and a GPS chip were reason enough to upgrade. I didn't miss them. There's plenty of WIFI around and my iPhone does a pretty good job to tracking using phone masts, without the GPS.

Are you going to upgrade every year on the day of release? If that's your plan, you're Apple's wet dream.

3G is more than slightly faster than EDGE. EDGE was almost useless and WIFI is only available to me at work and home. And GPS has come in very handy on many occasions for me. If your situation is different, then forgive me. And to answer your question, yes I am Apple's wet dream no doubt but only because I believe their product is leaps and bounds above the competition. Otherwise, I wouldn't be. iPhones are the only Apple product I have ever owned, but I must say they are quite nice.

[TechnoLawyer]

That's how it works everywhere and AT&T should not be an exception.

True but traditionally no one has cared about buying a new phone every year. As usual, the iPhone has changed the game. People like me want every new model. AT&T needs to rethink its contracts for iPhones.

[Chaos123x]

What a bunch of whiners!

Apparently nobody understands that they signed a contract that has terms and conditions and is a legally binding document?

I bought the original iPhone on launch day and have been using it since. Now I am going to upgrade to the 3GS. I don't expect to be handed a new phone every time there is an upgrade, nor do I need a new phone every year either.

Why would you expect AT&T to bend over backwards for iPhone customers to 'make an exception, please!!!'?? They don't do this for the users of any other phone, they all have to follow the standard upgrade policies.

Where is this 'random dates' theory? Reading this thread it all seems to make sense to me. $99+ you get an upgrade after 12 mo. Less you get one after 18 mo. You should feel lucky AT&T isn't making you wait until (god forbid!) your entire 24 month contract is up like it always used to be several years ago.

People just expecting something for nothing...

Cause they are random dates.

My upgrade for iPhone 3g and first gen iPhone are on the same date?

Jan 2010.

I didn't get any discount or subsidy on my first gen why should I pay $699?

[Chupa Chupa]

I don't have any inside info or anything but the 16 GB 3G is the only one listed "while supplies last".

That and the guy in the ATT video (you know the one that seems like he must have a 100lb weight weighing down the right side of his skull) said "while supplies last" too. It's pretty clear all the new 16GB chips Apple gets are reserved for the new iPhone and Touch.

[sharkzfanz]

Have you had Apple look at it... Exchange it for a new one under warranty as if its 3G your covered as it has been out less than 12 months... If the back is cracking and you did NOT drop it and if it was in a case the ENITRE time as you say then its a warranty issue. Otherwise you dropped it... LOL... Echange it!!

That would be cool if you could sell it like that.

But ya know I kept my iPhone in case at all times and never dropped it, but the black plastic casing is cracking. Can't sell it for much like that.

[xerenthar]

Because so many of the current 3G users that want the 3GS can't seem to understand that it isn't a lie.

no matter which way you slice it, in favor or against the "we deserve a subsidy again" crowd, the iPhone 2G -> 3G upgrade did not work this way.

iPhone 2G was not subsidized, allowing anyone who bought that iPhone to upgrade to a subsidized 3G, even if the 2G was bought a day before the 3G launch.

(this can be interpreted to argue for the subsidy-every-year crowd in that it established a tradition/expectations, they paid full price AND got locked into a contract, etc. or can be interpreted against them, in that the 3G was subsidized, the 2G wasn't, so the 3G->3GS is a different beast entirely.)

either way, it's not the same.

[Ramphex]

http://www.petitiononline.com/3GSprice/

Let's get everyone to sign this.

[jmorrison0722]

for what it's worth: although it impossible to find this info on the att site and nobody at apple has it, i have now been told by att that in their internal documents it states that after 18 months of the contract on the 3g, customers are eligible for the standard upgrade pricing on the 3gs.

Yes, it's well known that ATT will let you upgrade with full subsidy prior to the full 24 months, but when? I've heard the magic number is 16 months, while others say 18 months. I personally have upgraded at around 18 months and got the full eligibility.

I'm still using my 1st gen iPhone, so switching to the 3Gs wouldn't be an issue, but I'm not planning to make that switch due to the outrageously higher data + text plans required by ATT. $20 vs $35 is nearly double for a bit more speed...no thanks.

[boyreinvented]

3G is more than slightly faster than EDGE. EDGE was almost useless and WIFI is only available to me at work and home. And GPS has come in very handy on many occasions for me. If your situation is different, then forgive me. And to answer your question, yes I am Apple's wet dream no doubt but only because I believe their product is leaps and bounds above the competition. Otherwise, I wouldn't be. iPhones are the only Apple product I have ever owned, but I must say they are quite nice.

The thing is Apple was so far ahead, that even an EDGE iPhone was better than the competition. I use my EDGE iPhone as a satnav and it works great.

[.:R2theT]

That and the guy in the ATT video (you know the one that seems like he must have a 100lb weight weighing down the right side of his skull) said "while supplies last" too. It's pretty clear all the new 16GB chips Apple gets are reserved for the new iPhone and Touch.

Do the 16 GB iPhones have 1 16 GB chip or 2 8 GB chips?

[mattster16]

AT&T doesn't want to 'extend' your contract by two years making it a 3 year contract. Ever thought maybe they don't want to have to do accounting for 3 years advance revenue? Future value of money? Customers being locked into prices for another year? It might make sense to you, but to a huge company servicing millions of customers maybe they determined that would be a bad practice. What's the limit to this anyways. Three years from now after 3 iPhone upgrades will you have a 7 year contract? Or will they limit it to just once? Then everyone will whine and say it's unfair AT&T won't let them extend their contract to 4.5 years when the new iPhone 4G comes out....

[surferfromuk]

What a bunch of whiners!

Apparently nobody understands that they signed a contract that has terms and conditions and is a legally binding document?

I bought the original iPhone on launch day and have been using it since. Now I am going to upgrade to the 3GS. I don't expect to be handed a new phone every time there is an upgrade, nor do I need a new phone every year either.

Why would you expect AT&T to bend over backwards for iPhone customers to 'make an exception, please!!!'?? They don't do this for the users of any other phone, they all have to follow the standard upgrade policies.

Where is this 'random dates' theory? Reading this thread it all seems to make sense to me. $99+ you get an upgrade after 12 mo. Less you get one after 18 mo. You should feel lucky AT&T isn't making you wait until (god forbid!) your entire 24 month contract is up like it always used to be several years ago.

People just expecting something for nothing...

No everybody UNDERSTANDS they just think it sucks. Nobody wants something for nothing - everyone wants to pay for their new phone but they just don't want to pay twice for airtime they don't use, or be milked dry till their teats bleed...

Basically an 18 month contract doesn't work for a phone that get's updated every 12 months...

[BearsFan34]

If you have a family plan, there is a good chance that one of the other phones on the plan is ready or soon to be ready to upgrade. Upgrade that phone and then swap the sim cards. I have 3 phones on my plan and I have it set up to where there is one phone this june and one next june that will be ready to upgrade, as well as one in december of this year. That way no matter when they new phone/s come out. I am able to get it. The other option is to pay 10 dollars more a month and add a line, and give that line to someone you may have been thinking about giving a phone to anyway, (grandparent, parent, chile. etc.)

I am definitely interested in knowing if this will work. In "theory," it should; you upgrade a Family Talk Plan phone to the 3GS at the subsidized price, which extends your contract 2 years (fine with me); when the phone arrives, activate it and swap SIM cards with the regular 3G phone on the plan; then downgrade the line you used to upgrade to a non-3G data phone plan & go from there. The only issue is having to pay TWO 3G data plans on the same account, you wouldn't want that...

Wonder if this would work...

[sharkzfanz]

How (or maybe why) is there ANY confusion over ATT's upgrade policy? They have it clearly laid out on their web site: http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/why/upgrade-advantage.jsp

I'm really baffled why this is still burning up the forums.

If you read the fine print "Not all phones, such as iPhone, qualify for additional discount."

This is for an additional discount of 50-100... not valid on iphone..

Ignore link everyone..

[jmorrison0722]

http://www.petitiononline.com/3GSprice/

Let's get everyone to sign this.


Sign a petition to bitch about a policy you entered into willingly and now don't like?

[Chupa Chupa]

3G is more than slightly faster than EDGE. EDGE was almost useless and WIFI is only available to me at work and home. And GPS has come in very handy on many occasions for me. If your situation is different, then forgive me. And to answer your question, yes I am Apple's wet dream no doubt but only because I believe their product is leaps and bounds above the competition. Otherwise, I wouldn't be. iPhones are the only Apple product I have ever owned, but I must say they are quite nice.

3G is faster than EDGE theoretically. In real life I've been in plenty of 3G areas where friends were struggling to get just over EDGE speed. There are plenty of areas w/ no 3G service period too. That's why I kept my 2G when the 3G came out. I'm getting a 3Gs though b/c of the video and voice dial. (Just hoping the voice dial really works as advertised).

[Chaos123x]

http://charliek92.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/crying-baby.jpg
:D

[petsounds]

Wirelessly posted (iPhone: Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5H11a Safari/525.20)



You are the first person that thinks clearly on here! Most people can't see past the shiny back of the 3GS and think that just live without your digital compas and wait until next year when your contract is up and the the new new iPhone that got an awesome upgrade

But the 3GS is way more than a "spec bump." Taking Apple at its word, this thing is twice as fast as the 3G. Either more RAM or more CPU, maybe a combo of both. Combine that with the upgraded camera, and you've got a device which is a much better upgrade than from the 2G to the 3G. So it doesn't look any different on the outside... big fracking deal. It's still beautiful, modern and slick.

I think a lot of the bitching comes down to this. Most of us would much rather only deal with Apple. I hate to even go into an AT&T store. Apple customers are used to an integrated buying process. If Apple's business model is to upgrade the iPhone each year, the upgrade plan should account for this. But it's not like this, and this divergence from the usual Apple customer experience is really where the gnashing of teeth is coming from.

[pinshot]

Ok guys, i like many of you are NOT HAPPY about the news that we exhisting customers will not be able to upgrade for free/cheap. Despite the fact that i believe this will have a very negative effect on 3gs sales i believe there are other more seruious issues.

I worked in a position in CPW in UK that saw me in many different stores on a regular basis, and have witnessed many communications and transactions take place regarding iPhone 3g. One of the most common sales points discussed by the staff in store when selling an iPhone 3g is "And the best thing is that Apple release a new iPhone each year and allow O2 customers to upgrade even if they have an existing contract at no extra charge". I have heard this statement from at least 20 different stores.

Ofc this may just be something that has gone around in the company less official but the fact is that anything said to you to influence you signing a contract is completely relevant and MUST be truthful. This will no doubt cause a bit of backlash from customers and i for one will be using this as my tool to terminate my contract early so i can obtain a 3gs at a reasonable price.

I just thought i would make everyone aware of this point as it is drastically unfair to mislead customers in this way and is generally not what CPW do.

[ToM-RSC]

Grr, what annoys me is that they leave us to pay off the full amount just to upgrade. Why can't they just put 18 months on top of this contract that remains and pay the subsidized price, much simpler. :rolleyes:

[Chaos123x]

Apple should just buy the US branch of T-mobile.

[jmorrison0722]

I am definitely interested in knowing if this will work. In "theory," it should; you upgrade a Family Talk Plan phone to the 3GS at the subsidized price, which extends your contract 2 years (fine with me); when the phone arrives, activate it and swap SIM cards with the regular 3G phone on the plan; then downgrade the line you used to upgrade to a non-3G data phone plan & go from there. The only issue is having to pay TWO 3G data plans on the same account, you wouldn't want that...

Wonder if this would work...

This will work. My mom and my aunt are on a family plan. My mom had the original iPhone, which didn't utilize a subsidy, so she still had an upgrade coming. My aunt gets the iPhone 3G then drops it in her white russian. ATT sold her a new phone at $199 using my mom's available upgrade. They don't care, so long as you have a qualifying upgrade available.

[mattster16]

HTFH

Did these people ever have a late payment? I don't know their circumstances. Take it up with AT&T if there is legitimately a problem. I've never had a problem getting a company to admit an error if I can prove it using their own policies that there is one.

I've worked customer service in retail before so I know full well how 'right' some people think they are only to be completely ignoring a certain policy that is right there staring them in the face..and then after being shown it they somehow think it shouldn't apply them.

[mattster16]

No everybody UNDERSTANDS they just think it sucks. Nobody wants something for nothing - everyone wants to pay for their new phone but they just don't want to pay twice for airtime they don't use, or be milked dry till their teats bleed...

Basically an 18 month contract doesn't work for a phone that get's updated every 12 months...

Then don't buy an iPhone and don't use AT&T next time if you think it's unfair, problem solved.

Your last statement is false it should be:

Basically an 18 month contract doesn't work for a phone that gets updated every 12 months where many of its users think they are entitled to and need to purchase every upgrade released.

I have a hard time believing other phones only get upgraded every 18 month btw. The razr comes to mind, seems like there was a new model of those every time I turned around. The difference being razr users didn't need to always have the newest model.

The sense of entitlement on these boards is amazing.

[Chupa Chupa]

http://www.petitiononline.com/3GSprice/

Let's get everyone to sign this.


Honestly, it's things like this that give Apple fans a bad name. The petition is ridiculous. As many have said, no one has a right to a low cost iPhone and ATT's iPhone upgrade policy is no different than it is for any other phone and it's also inline with what every other postpaid cellco offers as well.

[.:R2theT]

either way, it's not the same.

No but the "buy in" to the 3G was the same as the 3GS and that is my point.

The 1st iPhone had rules unto itself, never to be repeated. I think that is why people seem to be confused. They bought the first iPhone but because it wasn't subsidized AT&T was able to subsidize the 3G. Now they think they should get the same deal as last time but the situation has changed.

I think AT&T should just give people the subsidized pricing but lock them in for another 2-year contract on top of the remaining 1-year that most of the 3Gers still have. Those that want to lock in with AT&T well into the next decade should go for it. We don't even know how long this relationship with Apple and AT&T will last. Could end in 2010/2011 for all we know. Do you really want to be tied to this carrier when future generations of iPhone are available elsewhere?

AT&T is just acting as a credit card. Subsidized phones are never free, it is just borrowing against the future. That is what people seem to miss. You aren't getting anything for free. You are taking a loan out from AT&T. And they will make a profit, you can count on that!

[Habakuk]

Apparently nobody understands that they signed a contract that has terms and conditions and is a legally binding document?

Yes yes I understand Mr. Advocate. Legally, legally... You know there are some countries in Europe where they have to sell the iPhones "officially unlocked" without any two-years contract? Only because you can dictate customers what you want here with those crazy "plans" does not mean that it's nothing but "legally".

[sharkzfanz]

http://www.petitiononline.com/3GSprice/

Let's get everyone to sign this.

Let's everyone sign it and then we will know exactly who the ignorant people are... I am sorry but HELLOOOO!!!!! The first phone was NOT subsidized so no S&$T everyone will qualify for the 3G at the cheap price.!!!!

How about you go to Verizon and buy the storm and in 12 months ask for the new blackberry... You will pay full retail.. HAHA

[jamesryanbell]

i really dont understand why this is such an issue. With any other subsidized phone...if a newer model came out....you wouldnt just go to att and say...oh i have the old version of that...i would like the new one...please give it to me at that subsidized rate....

why are people all of a sudden shocked at this practice?Because I want what I want, when I want it, and the lowest price possible. Every time.

[Shiner]

Grr, what annoys me is that they leave us to pay off the full amount just to upgrade. Why can't they just put 18 months on top of this contract that remains and pay the subsidized price, much simpler. :rolleyes:

Grr I haven't paid for the first iphone yet but I still want the new one!!!! I want something for free now. GRRRR

[nemaslov]

Then don't buy an iPhone and don't use AT&T next time if you think it's unfair, problem solved.

Your last statement is false it should be:

Basically an 18 month contract doesn't work for a phone that gets updated every 12 months where many of its users think they are entitled to and need to purchase every upgrade released.

I have a hard time believing other phones only get upgraded every 18 month btw. The razr comes to mind, seems like there was a new model of those every time I turned around. The difference being razr users didn't need to always have the newest model.

The sense of entitlement on these boards is amazing.

You don't NEED the newest iPhone model either. I have a three year old iBook which is GREAT. NO, it's NOT the new one but don't be so friggen greedy and wastefull. My first gen iPhone kicks ass over my wifes 3G battery wise. I think it's actually better than hers. When it dies, I'll get a new one but I don't NEED it now.

[mwp98223]

they better figure out a deal for all of us 3G users!

Why?

This is no different than any other subsidized phone with a 2 year service commitment. I don't like the system and I won't "defend it" as a business model, but I don't understand your expressions of entitlement. Why do they need to figure anything out for all you "3g users"? You signed a contract, they gave Apple hundreds of dollars on your behalf (the subsidy) and now AT&T is merely holding you to your contract. Simple.

[brucebrendon]

Apple should just buy the US branch of T-mobile.

VERY good suggestion!

tho i do no nothing of these kind of ventures, i'm pretty sure it'd make them very unique for phones and laptops etc. maybe they will when the tablet thingy emerges...

Imagine a product with FREE connection or subscriptions with included priority upgrades, i'd sign. heck it would free me up hr's a day from this site!

product launch would be it arriving at your door, you just chose your level.

[drewsky5]

Honestly, my beef with AT&T isn't over upgrade pricing (I still have the orginal iPhone so I'm not concerned) but with their ridiculous lack of support of MMS at launch and tethering. I'm sure that MMS won't cost anything additional for what we are already getting raped on as far as SMS is concerned, but tethering. If a company like Rogers can support tethering for NO ADDITIONAL cost, why won't AT&T? I figure they should just put a cap at 5 GB for data and allow tethering and charge people more after that point. I would do that.

[stockcerts]

This is a pretty standardized practice people and you shouldn't be shocked that you can't upgrade a WHOLE YEAR EARLY if you bought a 3G last year. People are shocked because this is just Apple fanboys wanting to be treated 'special' and that's all it is. People know the rules, but apparently if it's Apple they are buying then the rules mustn't apply.

This is very true, but for many people this means they will skip this generation of IPhone completely. I'm going to skip this generation as it seems ridiculous to wait until December when I'm eligible, and buy the next generation in June or July. That puts me right back in this situation for the following generation of phone.

[michelle21]

Why?

This is no different than any other subsidized phone with a 2 year service commitment. I don't like the system and I won't "defend it" as a business model, but I don't understand your expressions of entitlement. Why do they need to figure anything out for all you "3g users"? You signed a contract, they gave Apple hundreds of dollars on your behalf (the subsidy) and now AT&T is merely holding you to your contract. Simple.

Att or Apple.

I don't think Att is worried, Apple may be.

The stock takes a hit whenever they don't meet margins, and if I'm right about the developer issues.

Apple may be discussing strategy.

Than again I think they had to figure this in. Not much mention of ATT in the keynote.

[Shiner]

This is very true, but for many people this means they will skip this generation of IPhone completely. I'm going to skip this generation as it seems ridiculous to wait until December when I'm eligible, and buy the next generation in June or July. That puts me right back in this situation for the following generation of phone.

Thats a great idea! You have a great phone now and in another year you will get a new iphone 4G. You figured it out all on your own!! Yeah!!!

[mvpkent]

I'm confused if people are angry because they can't get the full subsidy or if they are angry that they can't get any subsidy. I upgraded to 3G from the original on launch day and I am eligible for $399 and $499 pricing. Is this because I owned an original iPhone too, or are all people who got a 3G on launch day eligible for this pricing as well. I think I should be eligible for full subsidy for reasons I already posted, but my complaint is a much smaller one as long as a 3GS can be had for $399.

[slippery-pete]

Pretty amusing thread. You have the chest pounders "I was right....knew all along that people who purchased the 3G on launch day wouldn't get the subsidized price on the new Iphone" "You signed a contract....what do you expect?" "This is how the cell game works....all carriers do it" "Did you really expect to get subsidized after only 12 months?.....WHINERS"

These are probably the same people who complain about the fees that At&T charges, yet they are ready to defend At&T on this....

People act like AT&T will lose money if they give you a subsidy again(after only a year) when the fact is they will only make less money on you. Doesn't take 24 months for At&T to make the subsidy money back.

[micko2004]

QFT.

I think it's time to make a complaint to the Trading Standards Authority and the Advertising Standards Authority about advertising "unlimited" 3G data access (which actually means 250MB/mth otherwise they cut you off as an "unfair user") and then gouging £15/month for using it.

O2 have always been the worst carrier in the UK, exhorbitantly pricing their (shoddy) services. They do more to damage Apple's reputation (by association) than anything Microsoft could ever do.

How Apple can still be in bed with them is beyond me but I predict they'll come to regret it. O2's pricing, flaky network and poor service is going to kill the iPhone market in the UK (the biggest Mobile market in Europe)... perhaps they make better margins on the Palm Pre deal? ;)

I 100% agree with you there, O2 seem to not be improving any of their network. I live in Southampton, just off the High Street and am told by O2 that the Cell is across the road from me, which I can see a bunch of from my window. So how come I can get 1 bar of 3G for about a minute then it drops to 2G??? They have no answer for that. Also a 1 hour train journey from Southampton to London today provided me with at best about 15 mins of actual usable O2 coverage. I am begging Apple to please switch over to Vodafone. O2 has just become a big joke!

[Shiner]

Att or Apple.

I don't think Att is worried, Apple may be.

The stock takes a hit whenever they don't meet margins, and if I'm right about the developer issues.

Apple may be discussing strategy.

Than again I think they had to figure this in. Not much mention of ATT in the keynote.

Don't worry about apple's margins. They will do just fine without the loud 3G whiners.

[gazchops]

If you buy anything that is subsidized then you cannot expect to get anything newly subsidized until the last one has expired, is this not normal!

[Shiner]

If you buy anything that is subsidized then you cannot expect to get anything newly subsidized until the last one has expired, is this not normal!

+1

[surferfromuk]

Then don't buy an iPhone and don't use AT&T next time if you think it's unfair, problem solved.

Your last statement is false it should be:

Basically an 18 month contract doesn't work for a phone that gets updated every 12 months where many of its users think they are entitled to and need to purchase every upgrade released.

I have a hard time believing other phones only get upgraded every 18 month btw. The razr comes to mind, seems like there was a new model of those every time I turned around. The difference being razr users didn't need to always have the newest model.

The sense of entitlement on these boards is amazing.

Sense of entitlement? Mmmh, strange way of putting it - I do believe I'm the paying customer here and I've spent $2500 on two years of iphone and plan to spend another $1000 over the next twelve...not complaining about that...but being locked into an 18 month contract which falls mid-refresh-cycle is irksome - add to that my only way out being to PAY for airtime I don't use TWICE. I fully expect to pay for my upgrade fairly and when I want to ( i.e at the time of a new iPhone release) - where is the 'sense of entitlement' issue in that? please explain?

[jmorrison0722]

I'm confused if people are angry because they can't get the full subsidy or if they are angry that they can't get any subsidy. I upgraded to 3G from the original on launch day and I am eligible for $399 and $499 pricing. Is this because I owned an original iPhone too, or are all people who got a 3G on launch day eligible for this pricing as well. I think I should be eligible for full subsidy for reasons I already posted, but my complaint is a much smaller one as long as a 3GS can be had for $399.

You are 1 year into a 2 year contract. It is due to this that you don't qualify for a full subsidy. We are left to assume you are being asked to pay $200 over sticker (so to speak) because you do qualify for a partial subsidy. Things get a little hazy as some people are claiming they are being asked to pay higher than $399. I assume those people are less than 1 year into their 2 year, so they qualify for no subsidy whatsoever. Lots of assuming going on though.

[davidbrummy]

Personally I do not see the killer reason to upgrade from a 16GB 3G. The new features are nice but not to die for. Especially as I will get a boat load of the ones I wanted just by getting the 3.0 OS (thanks Apple).

I don't think speed is a real issue for me. Most of the time I seem to be at home on wi-fi or stuck on edge at work.

My current iPhone camera for uploading to Facebook is great. I have a Powershoot G9 if I want great photo's to keep or high quality video.

The rest of it is just icing. I would rather keep my money and upgrade to the next version and be really impressed.

BTW I am getting my new Mac Pro tonight to replace my old G5. Now there will be a real upgrade!

[Shiner]

Sense of entitlement? Mmmh, strange way of putting it - I do believe I'm the paying customer here and I've spent $2500 on two years of iphone and plan to spend another $1000 over the next twelve...not complaining about that...but being locked into an 18 month contract which falls mid-refresh-cycle is irksome - add to that my only way out being to PAY for airtime I don't use TWICE. I fully expect to pay for my upgrade fairly and when I want to ( i.e at the time of a new iPhone release) - where is the 'sense of entitlement' issue in that? please explain?

You lost me. Have you owned the iphone for two years (the $2500 part)?

[jmorrison0722]

+1

This is normal. In fact, 3G owners are in fact being given a partial subsidy if they are being quoted $399. I think that's actually a nice thing ATT is doing...not making you wait the full 24 months to get anything.

[Shiner]

This is normal. In fact, 3G owners are in fact being given a partial subsidy if they are being quoted $399. I think that's actually a nice thing ATT is doing...not making you wait the full 24 months to get anything.

I completely agree.

[michelle21]

Don't worry about apple's margins. They will do just fine without the loud 3G whiners.

Actually I think you're wrong. And I suspect they will miss their target, not by much maybe, but with the company being scrutinized because of Steve Job's absence. May not be such a good quarter. You're counting on there being a lot of first time iphone buyers and I'm not so sure that is the case.

I guess we will see.

And I too am tired of this thread, It seems pointless. And I think most people who really seriously ARE going to upgrade have worked through there strategy already.

Mine for instance is to add an additional line and give the other phone to another family member. She will use it for college. done deal.

199.00 plus whatever fees to swtich and for monthly service. Already confirmed it and have a phone on reserve.

[fastbite]

This mess is why I wish AT&T/Apple had given the option to buy the phone outright last year. Like they did with the first iPhone. Now the iPhone is in the same boat as any other cell phone.
here! Here! Totally right!

[Chupa Chupa]

You don't NEED the newest iPhone model either. I have a three year old iBook which is GREAT. NO, it's NOT the new one but don't be so friggen greedy and wastefull. My first gen iPhone kicks ass over my wifes 3G battery wise. I think it's actually better than hers. When it dies, I'll get a new one but I don't NEED it now.

If you are going to go down the NEED route, you don't really NEED a smart phone. It makes your life easier, more convenience, but it's hardly a necessity. Think of all the extra resources that go into making and powering a smartphone vs. a $10 basic cellphone. So don't lecture on NEEDS based on your own especially when you hardly seem to have forsaken material desires yourself. Thanks.

As for being wasteful I assume the poster is not going to throw his old phone in the garbage. Most likely he'd sell it or give it to a friend/family member. Of course at some point everything ends up in the dump or recycler.

[mvpkent]

You are 1 year into a 2 year contract. It is due to this that you don't qualify for a full subsidy. We are left to assume you are being asked to pay $200 over sticker (so to speak) because you do qualify for a partial subsidy. Things get a little hazy as some people are claiming they are being asked to pay higher than $399. I assume those people are less than 1 year into their 2 year, so they qualify for no subsidy whatsoever. Lots of assuming going on though.

Ok, I get what the confusion is now. Well then let me atleast confirm that if you owned the original iPhone and paid full price, then upgraded to 3G on launch day 1 yr ago, you are most definately eligible for the partial subsidy pricing of $399 and $499.

[jmorrison0722]

If we want to petition someone, petition ATT to create a 1 year contract/subsidy agreement option for iPhone, since it's upgraded yearly.

[NAG]

I honestly don't care if I can get a 3G[s] at launch or not. I just want to know why there is such a huge and arbitrary range of dates for when people who bought a 3G at launch can upgrade. July to March is almost 1 full year difference and so far no explanation has held true in every or even most instances. It just seems completely random.

Hopefully AT&T will issue a statement explaining exactly what is going on so this confusion will end.

[jmorrison0722]

Ok, I get what the confusion is now. Well then let me atleast confirm that if you owned the original iPhone and paid full price, then upgraded to 3G on launch day 1 yr ago, you are most definately eligible for the partial subsidy pricing of $399 and $499.

I believe that is correct. Those who are less than 12 months in, I'm assuming, will be asked to pay more or wait until the 1 year mark.

[IMaMACnow]

Three of us are in a family plan at AT&T.. all of us have iPhones.

The "main" number qualifies for a subsidized iPhone on July 12th, 12 months after we bought our three iPhone 3G.

The other two lines qualify for 12/12 subsidized iPhone plans.

Anyone else here this? This is what i was quoted when calling AT&T.

>>> Now I see 3 big days for iPhone purchases... 6/19 for the newbies
7/12 for Family Plan account holders
12/12 for the rest of us.

Happy Shopping!:D

[jmorrison0722]

I imagine there is a chart somewhere that looks something like this:

1-11 months = zero subsidy allowed
12-17 months = partial subsidy allowed
18 + = full subsidy allowed

[btcutter]

Apple will just sell unsubsidized iPhones on GSM networks for $599 and $699. You just take it to AT&T or whatever your local wireless company and sign up for month to month data/voice/messaging service. Better yet, make it available for Verizon and Sprint as well.

Will paying $599/$699 full price make YOU happy????

You can own the latest iPhone every year if you want.

PROBLEM SOLVED!

[michelle21]

If you are going to go down the NEED route, you don't really NEED a smart phone. It makes your life easier, more convenience, but it's hardly a necessity. Think of all the extra resources that go into making and powering a smartphone vs. a $10 basic cellphone. So don't lecture on NEEDS based on your own especially when you hardly seem to have forsaken material desires yourself. Thanks.

As for being wasteful I assume the poster is not going to throw his old phone in the garbage. Most likely he'd sell it or give it to a friend/family member. Of course at some point everything ends up in the dump or recycler.

Yes I do, I'm a registered Iphone developer. As are a lot of other posters in this forum. I've weighted the situation and my conclusion is we can get in a mess if something passes the appstore inquisition but doesn't work on new hardware.

I spent 12 hours starting 9:00 pm friday trying to work out how to update all users on the subscribed site with new images uploaded from the iphone.

Especially for media intensive apps, they have to be tested on the new hardware.

Just wanted to let you know that the line, "the upgrade is not a necessity" is not true for everyone.

Everyone who wants one has to justify it to needs and budget.

[Peace]

Wait till the people buy the new 3GS and don't see MMS or tethering plans.

I'd bet a lot that's when we hear those people griping about ATT.;)

[surferfromuk]

You lost me. Have you owned the iphone for two years (the $2500 part)?

Yes, but two iphones...

For the record I'm not angry or petulantly stamping my feet -I'm not twelve years old here - but the system has lapsed into a state of conflict and anyone who can't see that a product 'of desire' on a 12 month renewal cycle that is bound to an 18th month replacement contract isn't going to disgruntle customers is missing the reason that Apple is such a powerful draw...

[NAG]

Three of us are in a family plan at AT&T.. all of us have iPhones.

The "main" number qualifies for a subsidized iPhone on July 12th, 12 months after we bought our three iPhone 3G.

The other two lines qualify for 12/12 subsidized iPhone plans.

Anyone else here this? This is what i was quoted when calling AT&T.

>>> Now I see 3 big days for iPhone purchases... 6/19 for the newbies
7/12 for Family Plan account holders
12/12 for the rest of us.

Happy Shopping!:D

Nope, I'm 3/10 and I bought on launch day.

It isn't 18 months like you're all quoting. The range is larger.

[jmorrison0722]

Apple will just sell unsubsidized iPhones on GSM networks for $599 and $699. You just take it to AT&T or whatever your local wireless company and sign up for month to month data/voice/messaging service. Better yet, make it available for Verizon and Sprint as well.

Will paying $599/$699 full price make YOU happy????

You can own the latest iPhone every year if you want.

PROBLEM SOLVED!

Or how about this:

1 year plan = $399 / $499 after subsidy
2 year plan = $199 / $299 after subsidy
No commitment = $599 / $699

Oh wait, that's what we have now.

[Chupa Chupa]

Actually I think you're wrong. And I suspect they will miss their target, not by much maybe, but with the company being scrutinized because of Steve Job's absence. May not be such a good quarter. You're counting on there being a lot of first time iphone buyers and I'm not so sure that is the case.

I guess we will see.



It's been a long time since Apple has missed it's numbers since they are always given on the low end. And as for Steve Job's absence last quarter was gangbusters and even when other CE companies were lagging.

I think the 3GS will do at least as well as the 3G. 1st all the 2Gers like me who didn't buy the 3G but are now ready for some newness, then all the people in Europe who haven't or couldn't get an 3G last year b/c they were still on contract, and finally, if China gets the iPhone as rumored, well look out.

The beauty of the 3GS is that it offers more functionality, not just faster speed. I think that is what is going to lure people in, especially the video.

[jdechko]

I just came here to say "this."

The only issues I have with AT&T are MMS and Tethering. I'm trying to figure out why it's so hard to enable this for iPhone 3G users.

I can only conjure up images of Brian Regan doing this bit. Enojy.

We also had to get the phone turned on. It's different then I thought, I didn't know how it works so I asked him (as Brian) "how does that work? Do we have to wait in our home for a few days for the phone people to come out?" (As phone company) "No we do it differently now. We can just flip the switch from right here." (As Brian).... pause... "Oh, great.... can you go ahead and flip it?" (As phone company) "We're gonna flip it next Thursday." (As Brian) "Can you flip it right now?" (As phone company) "We're gonna flip it Thursday, late, or Friday, or sometime in November."

[gazchops]

Is it me or are Yanks not used to the real world? IF YOU TAKE A CONTRACT OUT FOR A PHONE, THEN THAT PHONE IS LIKELY TO BE SUBSIDISED BY THAT CARRIER (simply they have paid for your phone so you will sign up to a contract), THEY HAVE TO RECOVER THAT COST (it is a business..... surprise!) at the end of your contract you can get a NEW contract THEN MOAN SOME MORE (after getting your phone cheap in the first place?!?!). XX

[AlwaysHopeful]

Think about it guys...

Big Phil delivers a dull keynote - great products but no real p'zazz.

People then look at the small print and start complaining.

A week or so later - the boy Jobs will ride in to the scene on a white charger, after knocking his "historic" (1929 !?!) house down, to save the day......

Subsidies for all - Apple has billions so everyone is happy to see him 100% well again and forgives him the wrecking ball!

Mark my words!!!!!

[rbucci]

If we want to petition someone, petition ATT to create a 1 year contract/subsidy agreement option for iPhone, since it's upgraded yearly.

GREAT IDEA!!!!

[slippery-pete]

I imagine there is a chart somewhere that looks something like this:

1-11 months = zero subsidy allowed
12-17 months = partial subsidy allowed
18 + = full subsidy allowed

Not accurate. Some(like myself) who bought 3G on launch day last year are eligible for a full subsidy on 7/12/09....

[btcutter]

Actually I think you're wrong. And I suspect they will miss their target, not by much maybe, but with the company being scrutinized because of Steve Job's absence. May not be such a good quarter. You're counting on there being a lot of first time iphone buyers and I'm not so sure that is the case.

I guess we will see.

And I too am tired of this thread, It seems pointless. And I think most people who really seriously ARE going to upgrade have worked through there strategy already.

Mine for instance is to add an additional line and give the other phone to another family member. She will use it for college. done deal.

199.00 plus whatever fees to swtich and for monthly service. Already confirmed it and have a phone on reserve.

I think Apple will be fine because of the new line of MacBook Pro and aggressive pricing during new school yr. They will sell their laptops like hotcakes.

[NAG]

Not accurate. Some(like myself) who bought 3G on launch day last year are eligible for a full subsidy on 7/12/09....

And some like myself aren't eligible until March. People keep coming in here and calling everyone whiners not realizing that there are obvious discrepancies with what is actually going on here. Clarification, not name calling would be nice.

[jmorrison0722]

Not accurate. Some(like myself) who bought 3G on launch day last year are eligible for a full subsidy on 7/12/09....

Interesting. Did you own the original iPhone or did you walk in and buy the 3G as your first iPhone? (Not that it should matter) Also, not calling you a liar or anything but have double checked this? I asked because I've heard others saying they were told this (via the website) only to have it change the next time they checked.

[slippery-pete]

And some like myself aren't eligible until March. People keep coming in here and calling everyone whiners not realizing that there are obvious discrepancies with what is actually going on here. Clarification, not name calling would be nice.

I agree, AT&T can't even answer the random nature of the upgrades

[jlwilliams]

Not accurate. Some(like myself) who bought 3G on launch day last year are eligible for a full subsidy on 7/12/09....

I read somewhere that it has to do with the amount your monthly bill is. If it is over $100 a month you only have to wait 12 months to upgrade, under $100, you have to wait 18 months. That way ATT can recoup their money on the phone back quicker.

[btcutter]

Or how about this:

1 year plan = $399 / $499 after subsidy
2 year plan = $199 / $299 after subsidy
No commitment = $599 / $699

Oh wait, that's what we have now.

People just want something for nothing.

I think the NO SUBSIDY works well and clean. No grey areas at all. Got $$, have a new phone.

[TSloper]

How (or maybe why) is there ANY confusion over ATT's upgrade policy? They have it clearly laid out on their web site: http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/why/upgrade-advantage.jsp

I'm really baffled why this is still burning up the forums.

I'm confused as well. Where is this sense of entitlement coming from for those that agreed to a 2 year contract when they purchased their iPhone 3G? If you can't afford to pay the early upgrade price or you aren't eligble yet then do the right thing... save your $ to upgrade, sell your 3G, or adhere to the terms of your contract that YOU signed up for and wait it out. AT&T isn't screwing anyone over on this issue. If you can't read and/or understand a contract maybe you should spend some time using your iPhone 3G and educating yourself a bit further. Apple and AT&T are in the business of making money... not making sure you have the latest and greatest at their expense.

People should be upset over AT&Ts inability to deliver MMS and tethering support not the upgrade pricing.

[Fluffy Bunny]

Is it possible to get a front page article on how great the iPhone 3GS is and that the monthly plan is reasonable? The front page posts on how AT&T is "sticking it to the man" and that Apple's "upgrades to the phone are weak" are ok, but they are getting tiresome. Look at it this way, putting both feel-good and phone-rage articles will get double the views.

Trust me, I'm a consultant.

[michelle21]

I think Apple will be fine because of the new line of MacBook Pro and aggressive pricing during new school yr. They will sell their laptops like hotcakes.

But the analyst seem to be focused on the Iphone. its all in perception.

Again I don't think att will do anything. And I wouldn't expect them too.

It could be good PR for Apple to offer a merchandise certificate (like last time) and maybe for us developers extend the developer contracts a few months so we don't have to take so many hits at once. Can't see were they would lose money either way.

Someone mentioned getting ATT to offer a 1 year contract , that sounds feasible except either the price of the phone or the monthly fee would have to be more. so whats the savings.

As I mentioned earler , pick a strategy and go with it.

With a family plan you should have one upgrade eligible phone each year, except I wonder if ATT would be willing to swap phone numbers. that could be a family issue.

[johnnyjibbs]

Well - I fully expected that my iPhone 3G would be upgraded at a price over the $199/299 that was announced - just didnt expect to see how much over. I understand the subsidized pricing argument - but check out this chain of events:


Shortly after original iPhone launch, bought a full-price iPhone. This had a two year contract, but was $599 I believe at the time, and the pricing was not subsidized. I have been an AT&T Customer since the Cingular / Cellular one days.
Shortly after 3G launch, upgraded to a 16GB White iPhone for $299. Price is subsidized, of course. 2 year contract renewal.
Within 10 days, my white 16GB phone was stolen. Went back to the store and purchased a 16GB black iPhone 3G at FULL PRICE (ouch - but expected). This was 8/7/07.


According to everyone I spoke with when purchasing the replacement 3G phone, since it was FULL price, my original contract (7/26/07 I believe) was in effect, and the new phone wouldn't change a thing.

Enter yesterday - iPhone 3GS announced. Being an iPhone developer I fully expected to pay for the phone and upgrade. I was expecting the "early termination" $399/499 rate as I understand my contract is not up. Additionally, a couple of friends who upgraded from 1G to 3G on the same day that I did were being quoted that rate. We all have the basic plan, all have the same features and same bill, living in the same city.

What do I see? Guess what - I'm not eligible for upgrade until 1/8/2010 - and my price, today, would be $599 for the 16GB and $699 for the 32GB. Called AT&T - apparently the person who sold me the phone for FULL price back on 8/7/07 actually renewed my 2-year agreement signed on 7/26/07 - knowing full well I was buying a replacement iPhone at full price, which shouldn't be affecting the contract terms.

So now, I am also assuming the fact that I bought 2 3G phones given that I lost one is also screwing up the upgrade path. Everything else with my account is identical to two other friends who followed the same exact path - yet my price is $200 higher???

*THIS* is the problem that people are complaining about. I am half tempted to suck it up and pay the full retail price on the new phone now, but guess what - I bet that despite it being the FULL RETAIL NO CONTRACT price, they'll renew my contract - meaning that I'll be ******** on the next upgrade as well.

What the hell?

Deniolan.

Unfortunately for you they are right. (By the way the dates you quote were '08 not '07). You bought your original iPhone and upgraded to the 3G a year ago, thus renewing your 2 year contract. The fact that you bought another phone with your own cash doesn't affect anything. Your original iPhone 3G contract still has a year to go, and that same stolen phone was subsidised. Yes, you bought an unsubsidised full-price phone in addition but that doesn't mean you bought out AT&T of the stolen one. AT&T had to buy 2 iPhone 3gs from Apple at full price and one of them to you was subsidised.

It's unfortunate that your phone got stolen but the fact you buy another one at full price (which anyone could do if they so wished) dosnt mean you're entitled to a free upgrade mid-contract.

[btcutter]

And some like myself aren't eligible until March. People keep coming in here and calling everyone whiners not realizing that there are obvious discrepancies with what is actually going on here. Clarification, not name calling would be nice.

I think on both ATT and Apple site states that "other factors" may play a part in when you can get a subsidized phone. Perhaps things such as how much $$ you spend monthly? Are you abusing the bandwidth? Late payment dead beat? just to name a few variables.

[alexacker]

Look at it this way. When the next version of the iphone comes out, presumabely this time next year, the 3G users WILL be able to upgrade to it. I also suspect Apple has taken this into consideration since the 3GS was really little more than a spec bump. I'm wondering if the release of a totally redesigned iphone will be timed for when the 3G customers contracts are up.

Of course, all the people who buy 3GS's will be the ones complaining because they can't upgrade to the new iphone.


As 2G iPhone users, my wife and I just pre-ordered 2 new iPhone 3GS's at the low, low price (awesome!). To your post, between iPhone 3.0 new features and 3GS new gadgets, what do you think they can really add in a year that's revolutionary enough besides performance enhancements and new form factor? I think were pretty much there, no? Perhaps Smell Control© so your buddies can surprise you with you some unexpected odor? :-)

[jmorrison0722]

I agree, AT&T can't even answer the random nature of the upgrades

Well, to those who think they are owed a full subsidy, you're being a bit silly. You know better.

Now, for one 3G owner to be told they can have a full subsidy at 12 months, while other are being told they must wait until 18 months is simply stupid unless they want to disclose the conditions. If it's about monthly bill amount, tell us that.

[Padaung]

Ok guys, i like many of you are NOT HAPPY about the news that we exhisting customers will not be able to upgrade for free/cheap. Despite the fact that i believe this will have a very negative effect on 3gs sales i believe there are other more seruious issues.

I worked in a position in CPW in UK that saw me in many different stores on a regular basis, and have witnessed many communications and transactions take place regarding iPhone 3g. One of the most common sales points discussed by the staff in store when selling an iPhone 3g is "And the best thing is that Apple release a new iPhone each year and allow O2 customers to upgrade even if they have an existing contract at no extra charge". I have heard this statement from at least 20 different stores.

Ofc this may just be something that has gone around in the company less official but the fact is that anything said to you to influence you signing a contract is completely relevant and MUST be truthful. This will no doubt cause a bit of backlash from customers and i for one will be using this as my tool to terminate my contract early so i can obtain a 3gs at a reasonable price.

I just thought i would make everyone aware of this point as it is drastically unfair to mislead customers in this way and is generally not what CPW do.

Yup, I got told the same thing in an O2 store a few months back. The sales guy was desperate to sell an iPhone to me. I'd already decided to wait for the new model to come out before getting one.

I'm still considering getting the 3Gs but I'm not at all amused at the extra tariff O2 want to charge for tethering (something I do use on my current phone) for a phone that is meant to come with an unlimited data plan as standard. When is data seen on a phone screen different to data seen on a computer screen? Shouldn't the same fair use policy apply whether the phone is connected to a computer or not? Utterly stupid.

[daveperso]

Boy, am I pleased that here in France I signed up for just a one-year contract. I paid about 8 dollars more a month but I just didn't want to be stuck to one company for two years. My original reason was that I wanted to be free to join another telephone provider after a year as I suspected that in France, having a monopoly for iPhones wouldn't dig with the authorities. Sure enough, over here, we now have three companies to choose from so in July I can either continue with my present operator, Orange (the ex-monopoly holder) or SFR or Bouygues. I am reasonably sure that all three will be offering me the best price for the iPhone 3G S. I am firm believer that healthy competition is best for the consumer whatever the business model, and what is best for the consumer is, I think, ultimately best for all of us. Ironic of course, that iPhone competition seems to be greater in France than both the UK and the US. For once, we seem to be doing things right!

[westlakers]

I had been treated by ATT just like that 4 months ago when I tried to upgrade my 2G to 3G, so based on my experience dealing with ATT, I am not surprised at all. Please noted I paid in full price for my 16Gb iphone 2G I bought in Feb 2008, yet I could not get the full subsidized price for iphone 3G.

You can check out your ATT account for eligibility of upgrade with full subsidized pricing. my one was 7/8/2009 which is not far from now, fingers crossed, but I am still skeptic about ATT which could change that date at their will (it has been changing several times)

[osborda]

I read somewhere that it has to do with the amount your monthly bill is. If it is over $100 a month you only have to wait 12 months to upgrade, under $100, you have to wait 18 months. That way ATT can recoup their money on the phone back quicker.

This is true. I spoke with an ATT rep at a local store. He told me I would be eligible to upgrade my iphone 3g on July 12th because my monthly bill exceeds $100/month.

[riversky]

People you can get the new iPhone 3GS before your contract ends, at&t is just not going pay for the portion it costs in subsidy. You pay some, they pay the rest to Apple to get you in at $299 etc.... You have to pay the full cost and then get your new phone.

Seems very fair to me since you didn't pay $600 to start with. at&t loaned you the difference for two years.

I do see the point of those that couldn't buy in at full price to start with though....

[DaBrain]

Because I want what I want, when I want it, and the lowest price possible. Every time.

You left out I want it NOW!--))) ;):D

[SeanZy]

I honestly think it has to do with the day you got your iPhone 3G and if you had an original iPhone or not. The people with original iPhones all have the upgrade eligibility one year directly after the 3G contract signing.

I remember reading that an AT&T rep told someone this as well.

[rbucci]

I agree everyone needs to calm down.

All 3G users first pay for the phone you had subsidized by AT&T then you can buy the new shiny iPhone. There, end of argument.

Agreed.
I guess the confusing thing is why wouldn't ATT want to extend the contracts of the 3G users another 2 years?
Isn't a contract really about getting more $ out of the person to recoup the subsidized phone?

[SeanZy]

Agreed.
I guess the confusing thing is that why wouldn't ATT want to extend the contracts of the 3G users another 2 years?
Isn't a contract really about getting more $ out of the person to recoup the subsidized phone?

Once the person is eligible for upgrade they still have to do another two year contract.

So in a way, them making you wait to get it for cheaper is actually extending your time with them, because you would either get a new two year contract now, or pay for the next 5 or whatever months on your existing contract and do another two year contract after that instead. So its not accurate to say they dont want to extend the contracts, if you know what I mean.

[xoph3]

Isn't the real issue here the fact that Apple, stupidly I think, decided to highly publicize the price of their device, obscuring the fact that these are in fact subsidized prices? Then, when the subsidy goes away, everyone looks at the carrier as the profiteering bad guy. Don't get me wrong, I have no desire to defend mobile carriers in any way, their business models are borderline criminal in many instances. But, does anyone wonder now why Nokia, or Motorola, or whoever, don't loudly advertise prices alongside their device launches, instead leaving it to the carriers to deliver that message? Maybe (hopefully) a lesson learned for Apple, who are still very green when it comes to this particular industry. I suppose we could take the alternate view that Apple is trying to bring change to these practices, which I'd support, but we can't expect AT&T or O2 or whomever to just eat it, right?

[rbucci]

Once the person is eligible for upgrade they still have to do another two year contract.

So in a way, them making you wait to get it for cheaper is actually extending your time with them, because you would either get a new two year contract now, or pay for the next 5 or whatever months on your existing contract and do another two year contract after that instead.

BUT, they are gambling that no one else will have the iphone when your contract comes up...odds have been pretty good the past couple years for them, but I would bet Apple is getting sick of the added bad press/baggage that comes with ATT...

[NAG]

I think on both ATT and Apple site states that "other factors" may play a part in when you can get a subsidized phone. Perhaps things such as how much $$ you spend monthly? Are you abusing the bandwidth? Late payment dead beat? just to name a few variables.

I pay full on time every time. I do not abuse bandwidth (no jailbreak tethering or excessive web use).

Additionally, there are people who pay over $100 a month yet they're in December or March while other people with the same bill are in July of this year.

There are obvious and unexplained variations in the upgrade eligibility. Yet we are getting people in here calling everyone whiners or cry babies. Yes, how dare we ask for explanation for the seemingly random eligibility. Lets just keep beating that strawman.

[NAG]

I honestly think it has to do with the day you got your iPhone 3G and if you had an original iPhone or not. The people with original iPhones all have the upgrade eligibility one year directly after the 3G contract signing.

I remember reading that an AT&T rep told someone this as well.

That is incorrect. I am not eligible at that date even though I owned both.

[Shiner]

Isn't the real issue here the fact that Apple, stupidly I think, decided to highly publicize the price of their device, obscuring the fact that these are in fact subsidized prices? Then, when the subsidy goes away, everyone looks at the carrier as the profiteering bad guy. Don't get me wrong, I have no desire to defend mobile carriers in any way, their business models are borderline criminal in many instances. But, does anyone wonder now why Nokia, or Motorola, or whoever, don't loudly advertise prices alongside their device launches, instead leaving it to the carriers to deliver that message? Maybe (hopefully) a lesson learned for Apple, who are still very green when it comes to this particular industry. I suppose we could take the alternate view that Apple is trying to bring change to these practices, which I'd support, but we can't expect AT&T or O2 or whomever to just eat it, right?

Dude you are so right!! This is exactly what is wrong with all of this. Apple comes out and states the iphone is only $199 but really it is $599 without being subsidized.

[nemaslov]

People you can get the new iPhone 3GS before your contract ends, at&t is just not going pay for the portion it costs in subsidy. You pay some, they pay the rest to Apple to get you in at $299 etc.... You have to pay the full cost and then get your new phone.

Seems very fair to me since you didn't pay $600 to start with. at&t loaned you the difference for two years.

I do see the point of those that couldn't buy in at full price to start with though....

This may be the only reasonable post here. ATT did pay upfront for part of your phone (fronted you the funds) so you have no right whatsoever to want them to do it again unless you paid them back for your current one by being a subscriber for the promised alloted time.

[nemaslov]

Agreed.
I guess the confusing thing is why wouldn't ATT want to extend the contracts of the 3G users another 2 years?
Isn't a contract really about getting more $ out of the person to recoup the subsidized phone?

But then you'd be pissed again in a year or so when the next newest device comes out and you have to pay full tilt boogie price.

[btcutter]

I pay full on time every time. I do not abuse bandwidth (no jailbreak tethering or excessive web use).

Additionally, there are people who pay over $100 a month yet they're in December or March while other people with the same bill are in July of this year.

There are obvious and unexplained variations in the upgrade eligibility. Yet we are getting people in here calling everyone whiners or cry babies. Yes, how dare we ask for explanation for the seemingly random eligibility. Lets just keep beating that strawman.

Well, if your situations were EXACTLY the same and have different eligibility dates then it's At&T. But I doubt you'll be able to get an answer from them unless you have the "other person with exact situation" talking to them at the same time and give them the Ok to pull up both accounts to determine why there is a difference. I would LOVE to hear their explanation.

[NAG]

Well, if your situations were EXACTLY the same and have different eligibility dates then it's At&T. But I doubt you'll be able to get an answer from them unless you have the "other person with exact situation" talking to them at the same time and give them the Ok to pull up both accounts to determine why there is a difference. I would LOVE to hear their explanation.

Nice use of sarcasm caps by the way. Yes, beat those people asking for clarification mercilessly. How dare they seek information.

[xerenthar]

I honestly think it has to do with the day you got your iPhone 3G and if you had an original iPhone or not. The people with original iPhones all have the upgrade eligibility one year directly after the 3G contract signing.

I remember reading that an AT&T rep told someone this as well.

NO THEY DO NOT

[ubestbsteppin]

Sorry if someone has already mentioned this, but...

I bought my 3G about a week after launch and started a new, single line contract with the 450 minute plan and unlimited texts. Apple currently says my price for the 32GB 3G S is $699.99. I called ATT by calling 611 and they informed that this information is wrong, and since I purchased my phone about a year ago I am eligible for "mid cycle" upgrade pricing, bringing the the cost of the 32GB 3G S to $499.99. She got off the line twice to confirm this with her superior. She gave me her name and urged me to call 611 on the morning I go to get the new phone if I have any problems.

[Chupa Chupa]

Dude you are so right!! This is exactly what is wrong with all of this. Apple comes out and states the iphone is only $199 but really it is $599 without being subsidized.


And what post-paid phone isn't advertised like this? Take a look at all the fliers in your Sunday paper. Pick one from a store that sells cell phones. Almost every phone advertised is a "contract" price. Then go to Amazon.com and try to buy a phone at their "low" price. You'll end up having to get a contract or renew an existing one. That is how the cell phone industry works. Apple is not reinventing the wheel here.

[caonimadebi]

Isn't the real issue here the fact that Apple, stupidly I think, decided to highly publicize the price of their device, obscuring the fact that these are in fact subsidized prices? Then, when the subsidy goes away, everyone looks at the carrier as the profiteering bad guy. Don't get me wrong, I have no desire to defend mobile carriers in any way, their business models are borderline criminal in many instances. But, does anyone wonder now why Nokia, or Motorola, or whoever, don't loudly advertise prices alongside their device launches, instead leaving it to the carriers to deliver that message? Maybe (hopefully) a lesson learned for Apple, who are still very green when it comes to this particular industry. I suppose we could take the alternate view that Apple is trying to bring change to these practices, which I'd support, but we can't expect AT&T or O2 or whomever to just eat it, right?

I totally agree with you. Apple should not advertise their phones as being $199/$299, because that is not the true cost and not the price that everyone, including loyal iPhone owners, can buy it at.
I wonder if it was Apple or AT&T that took the initiative to revert back to the industry standard of subsidy-upfront, recoup-later model with the launch of 3G?

[NAG]

This may be the only reasonable post here. ATT did pay upfront for part of your phone (fronted you the funds) so you have no right whatsoever to want them to do it again unless you paid them back for your current one by being a subscriber for the promised alloted time.

The problem here is that the alloted time ranges from 12 to 20 months. Currently no model fits. Owned a first and second gen iPhone? Nope, we have people like that all over the range. Price of the line over $100? Nope, those people are again all over the eligibility range.

So far no link or explanation or transcript of a conversation with an AT&T rep has matched what is happening.

[fad1]

I dont know. I currently have a 3 ( I have to update my sig) but I dont know if its worth the upgrade. I may just keep it for another year until apple releases it next year.

[btcutter]

Nice use of sarcasm caps by the way. Yes, beat those people asking for clarification mercilessly. How dare they seek information.

Actually I really wasn't trying to be sarcastic. I do REALLY want to see if people who have EXACTLY situation have different dates for subsidy and WHY.

[NAG]

If so, just a note. Using caps online generally implies a change in tone (usually interpreted as screaming). So you might want to not accentuate words like that if you don't want to be interpreted as being combative.

[Shin3r]

While I understand that a contract is a contract, and for those who simply bought their first iphone 3g last year, they really don't have a leg to stand on. However, those of us who bought the original iphone at the UNsubsidized price still had to sign a stupid contract. So, AT&T got to change the rules. THIS is what's BS about the telcos. They are the ones that made the iphone different. As far as I know, correct me, but was there any other phone on the market that you had to pay FULL price and still sign the contract. I'm upset because I have put in my proper time and AT&T got away with it because I had no other choice if I wanted the iphone. I have put two years in for only one subsidized phone. Now I'm being punished because they won't look at their BS rules from way back when. Yes I'm whining and for once, in this situation, I think it's deserved. I don't want something for nothing, I want fair practices from these blood sucking companies and stop changing rules whenever they freakin feel like it.

[babyj]

O2 appear to have screwed up my account, they never applied a new 18 month contract when I upgraded to my (subsidised) 3G so at present it looks like I'll be eligible for a subsidised upgrade to 3GS in 4 months time.

Can't see me doing it though, nothing on the 3GS I'm desperate for. Will probably try for a discounted talk plan instead, or move to another network. Then wait for the next iPhone to be released.

[gentleman00]

I totally agree with you. Apple should not advertise their phones as being $199/$299, because that is not the true cost and not the price that everyone, including loyal iPhone owners, can buy it at.
I wonder if it was Apple or AT&T that took the initiative to revert back to the industry standard of subsidy-upfront, recoup-later model with the launch of 3G?

What everyone fails to ask is how much does the iphone cost Apple to produce and what is their margin of profit and how much does ATT make from a two-year contract. Before we argue over the prices of subsidized and unsubsidized phones. We know it costs apple $173.00 to make the iphone 3G. We should start from here. Could anyone do the numbers? Or is there a website that has more information about this?

[btcutter]

I totally agree with you. Apple should not advertise their phones as being $199/$299, because that is not the true cost and not the price that everyone, including loyal iPhone owners, can buy it at.
I wonder if it was Apple or AT&T that took the initiative to revert back to the industry standard of subsidy-upfront, recoup-later model with the launch of 3G?

Come on now. What do you think RIMM is doing or the Razor??? This is the North American model of subsidy. It's been on going for years. Nothing new.

Companies are competing for business and they come up with this subsidized phone to lock customers in 2 yr contract.

Seriously, are you ready to pay full price for ANY phone now?

Same people will be bitching charing full price and why can't phones be subsidized.:confused::confused::confused:

[btcutter]

What everyone fails to ask is how much does the iphone cost Apple to produce and what is their margin of profit and how much does ATT make from a two-year contract. Before we argue over the prices of subsidized and unsubsidized phones. We know it costs apple $173.00 to make the iphone 3G. We should start from here.

Simple supply and demand. Apple can charge WHATEVER they want. But YOU don't have to buy it.

If fewer people demand the product, it will be on SALE or discontinued.

Simple economics.

[NAG]

While I understand that a contract is a contract, and for those who simply bought their first iphone 3g last year, they really don't have a leg to stand on. However, those of us who bought the original iphone at the UNsubsidized price still had to sign a stupid contract. So, AT&T got to change the rules. THIS is what's BS about the telcos. They are the ones that made the iphone different. As far as I know, correct me, but was there any other phone on the market that you had to pay FULL price and still sign the contract. I'm upset because I have put in my proper time and AT&T got away with it because I had no other choice if I wanted the iphone. I have put two years in for only one subsidized phone. Now I'm being punished because they won't look at their BS rules from way back when. Yes I'm whining and for once, in this situation, I think it's deserved. I don't want something for nothing, I want fair practices from these blood sucking companies and stop changing rules whenever they freakin feel like it.

Actually, if you're still on a first gen iPhone they should give you the full subsidized price. I think that is the one piece of consistent information that we're actually getting.

I wish AT&T would just stop trying to make who can upgrade when into a black magic. They're purposefully making it hard to understand (I love the "you may be eligible to upgrade!" line where they force you to look up every phone on your plan to check if you "may be eligible" or not).

I don't think this is just confusion over what a subsidy is but it is a confusion over when exactly AT&T considers you're eligible to get a new one and why.

[fervor]

And being a 3G owner since the day they came out, having been a first-gen iPhone owner since the day they came out prior to that, I can upgrade to the 16Gig for $399 or the 32Gig for $499 with a renewed 2-year contract. Says that further discounts may be available after 7/7/09, whatever that means.

My wife's phone, a first gen iPhone, can be upgraded for the advertised $199/$299.

As so many have said, it's pretty much expected when you have a phone under contract.

I am wondering what the 'extra' discount would be for mine as of 7/7/09. That seems to match no dates on my contract... guess I'll check back and see.

I already have someone who wants to buy my 3G, so again, as someone pointed out, my net cost could be attractive enough to pull the trigger. I sure want one of the new ones, that's for sure!

The only thing I'm peeved at AT&T about is them not allowing tethering! That'd rock!

[dizzy13]

Not going to read 17 pages of post so if it's already been mentioned then oops!

Just finished writing up a response post on my blog to this article and basically the answer "formula" for the upgrade date is based on how much you spend per month on your at&t bill. My bill is $110 and I can upgrade after only 12 months.

[omegaphil6]

this is what happens when a computer company starts making phones!

Everyone is used to being able to walk into an Apple Store and buy the new ipod or new iMac whenever a new one comes out. Now that apple makes phones and talks them up like any of their other hardware they create this buzz that makes everyone want it. the only problem is that these phones are not sold through Apple they are sold through AT&T BUT they are mainly marekted by the computer company along with a price.

Personally AT&T should forget the subsidy **** and simply allow the millions of iphone users to continue to upgrde as new models come out! instead of making me sign a new 2 year agreement, simply add another 2 years to the end date of my existing contract. A die-hard iPhone / Apple fan will stick with AT&T as long as new models keep coming out! Just as i will continue to buy new apple products as they come out. I;m not going to buy an iPod one year and then switch to a Sansa or something the next year. Its called Brand Loyalty and it needs to be taken into consideration in these situations because no other company can achieve what apple has achieved especially in a market to which they can still be considered a baby in. NO ONE waits and waits for the latest RAZR.... no one does for anything samsung makes, the only company close is RIM and look how long it took them to reach their current status. My contract is up in 2010... would i gladly extend it to 2012 if they let me buy the iphone at the subsidized price? HELL YEAH... that way i get what i want and AT&T gets from now till 2010 to cover my iphone 3g and from 2010 to 2012 to cover my iphone 3Gs. I've been with AT&T since they were att wireless and then became cingular and now at&T again... I'm not looking to go elsewhere... people who sit around and provider-hop are the reason things are like this! Sprint, T-Mobile, Verizon and AT&T ALL suck in some way or another but isnt that the case with any market?

[xoph3]

What everyone fails to ask is how much does the iphone cost Apple to produce and what is their margin of profit and how much does ATT make from a two-year contract. Before we argue over the prices of subsidized and unsubsidized phones. We know it costs apple $173.00 to make the iphone 3G. We should start from here. Could anyone do the numbers? Or is there a website that has more information about this?

What it costs Apple to make is irrelevant. They base their pricing decisions based on the old school rules of supply and demand like everyone else. If enough people were willing to buy the thing for $2,000 and their bottom line looked better with fewer customers at a higher price point, that's their decision right? We have no right to any predetermined pricing based on production costs for a luxury item, nor should we expect such a right.

What we should expect, however, is a little bit of transparency from all involved regarding what the end consumer cost will actually be. That transparency is lacking here, and Apple takes an equal share of the blame for that, if not the lion's share of said responsibility in this particular case.

[michelle21]

Come on now. What do you think RIMM is doing or the Razor??? This is the North American model of subsidy. It's been on going for years. Nothing new.

Companies are competing for business and they come up with this subsidized phone to lock customers in 2 yr contract.

Seriously, are you ready to pay full price for ANY phone now?

Same people will be bitching charing full price and why can't phones be subsidized.:confused::confused::confused:

If I would of known adding a few dollars to my contract (93.00 now) would of given me a 1 year upgrade option , I would of taken it. When I signed up for the contract no one mentioned that, and now only after someone pointed out where did I find the link on the att site. And its very easy to think the option doesn't apply to iphone because of the wording.

Doesn't matter I guess because I am getting the 199.00 price, kindof, by add ing a line to my existing account. I'm not stupid I know it costs more over the term but I do have a use for the second line, and I can at least "pretend" I am getting a good deal.

[Chupa Chupa]

I totally agree with you. Apple should not advertise their phones as being $199/$299, because that is not the true cost and not the price that everyone, including loyal iPhone owners, can buy it at.


"loyal iPhone owners" vs., what, disloyal iPhone owners? ... you know the ones that carry their Blackberry and WinMo phones with them too. </sarc>

The iPhone is a phone, not your girlfriend. You don't get brownie points for holding your iPhone in public.

[btcutter]

If I would of known adding a few dollars to my contract (93.00 now) would of given me a 1 year upgrade option , I would of taken it. When I signed up for the contract no one mentioned that, and now only after someone pointed out where did I find the link on the att site. And its very easy to think the option doesn't apply to iphone because of the wording.

Doesn't matter I guess because I am getting the 199.00 price, kindof, by add ing a line to my existing account. I'm not stupid I know it costs more over the term but I do have a use for the second line, and I can at least "pretend" I am getting a good deal.

You can make this work. Just have someone you trust (family or friend with money) who would pay for their part of the bill join you in a family plan. Everyone SAVES!

[NAG]

Not going to read 17 pages of post so if it's already been mentioned then oops!

Just finished writing up a response post on my blog to this article and basically the answer "formula" is for the upgrade date is based on how much you spend per month on your at&t bill. My bill is $110 and I can upgrade after only 12 months.

Would be nice if they gave us the exact formula because so far that doesn't explain the whole thing. It only seems to be a tiny factor.

[michelle21]

You can make this work. Just have someone you trust (family or friend with money) who would pay for their part of the bill join you in a family plan. Everyone SAVES!


Sorry, isn't that what I just said. College students just love iphones.

[Fluffy Bunny]

What everyone fails to ask is how much does the iphone cost Apple to produce and what is their margin of profit and how much does ATT make from a two-year contract. Before we argue over the prices of subsidized and unsubsidized phones. We know it costs apple $173.00 to make the iphone 3G. We should start from here. Could anyone do the numbers? Or is there a website that has more information about this?

Well, per their annual report for 2008, AT&T's income is approximately 10% of revenue. If the base iPhone plan is $70 per month (excluding $10+ in taxes thanks to the government - now that is something to get angry over), AT&T would make $7 per month off of the base plan. Now the 10% income margin for AT&T includes the local and long distance business, which have been around for about 140 years, so the cellular profit margin is probably below 10%, or less than $7 per month.

[jrichard012]

I was told by ATT this morning that they assign preferences to customers depending on how valued their past history is. This coincides with reports on customers buying a certain combination of first and second generation iPhones and thereby being "allowed" to buy the 3G S at Apple's stated retain cost at different intervals relative to their contract.

I told the ATT rep that I had it with them. We have two landlines, two iPhones plus their fastest GSL I/Net connection. Never been late on monthly payments. My specific situation is that I can upgrade to the new phone this December but will have to pay full retail and sign in to another two year contract. This will never happen as I plan to bypass the 3G S and wait a year to get the next one. Plus, when Apple partners with Verizon, I'm outta AT & T.

[Chupa Chupa]

What we should expect, however, is a little bit of transparency from all involved regarding what the end consumer cost will actually be. That transparency is lacking here, and Apple takes an equal share of the blame for that, if not the lion's share of said responsibility in this particular case.

See: http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone?mco=MTE2OTU

How much more transparancy do you need. The price is right on the store's product web page: (2) Requires new two-year AT&T wireless service contract, sold separately to qualified customers...For non-qualified customers, including existing AT&T customers who want to upgrade from another phone or replace an iPhone 3G, the price with a new two-year agreement is $499 (8GB), $599 (16GB), or $699 (32GB). (Italics and bold added for emphasis).

[point665]

I was there for the launch day of the original 1st gen iPhone... Bought two of them (neither for me as I was still living in Europe at the moment) and those two were never upgraded to 3G models. Yesterday I ordered the 3GS models for those accounts, $199 each - no problem. When I moved to the States back in November of 07 one of the first things was my iPhone purchase and I never took advantage of purchasing a 3G model. Yet over 18 months later and Apple/AT&T charged me $399 to upgrade (I was on the phone for hours with both...)

So basically: purchased 1st gen iPhone in late 07 and now had to pay $399 (same as 3G purchasers)... Funny how I never took advantage of the subsidized pricing of the 3G when I could of but now a year later cannot take advantage of the 3GS at subsidized pricing.

Owell...

[Shin3r]

Is it me or are Yanks not used to the real world? IF YOU TAKE A CONTRACT OUT FOR A PHONE, THEN THAT PHONE IS LIKELY TO BE SUBSIDISED BY THAT CARRIER (simply they have paid for your phone so you will sign up to a contract), THEY HAVE TO RECOVER THAT COST (it is a business..... surprise!) at the end of your contract you can get a NEW contract THEN MOAN SOME MORE (after getting your phone cheap in the first place?!?!). XX

except AT&T changes the rules whenever they want, like making you sign a contract even when the phone isn't subsidized, and doesn't count that towards anything later on.

[NAG]

See: http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone?mco=MTE2OTU

How much more transparancy do you need. The price is right on the store's product web page: (2) Requires new two-year AT&T wireless service contract, sold separately to qualified customers...For non-qualified customers, including existing AT&T customers who want to upgrade from another phone or replace an iPhone 3G, the price with a new two-year agreement is $499 (8GB), $599 (16GB), or $699 (32GB). (Italics and bold added for emphasis).

That would be great if it was true. Maybe you should actually pay attention to what people are saying before you berate them for their perceived ignorance. You might find ignorance is a shared trait.

[michelle21]

I was told by ATT this morning that they assign preferences to customers depending on how valued their past history is. This coincides with reports on customers buying a certain combination of first and second generation iPhones and thereby being "allowed" to buy the 3G S at Apple's stated retain cost at different intervals relative to their contract.

I told the ATT rep that I had it with them. We have two landlines, two iPhones plus their fastest GSL I/Net connection. Never been late on monthly payments. My specific situation is that I can upgrade to the new phone this December but will have to pay full retail and sign in to another two year contract. This will never happen as I plan to bypass the 3G S and wait a year to get the next one. Plus, when Apple partners with Verizon, I'm outta AT & T.

The upgrade pricing (any upgrade) is detailed on the att support page. It appears to be all based on your monthly total. plans totally more than 100.00 on the primary account get the better deal. Finding the info is like looking for Waldo...

[jrichard012]

Would be nice if they gave us the exact formula because so far that doesn't explain the whole thing. It only seems to be a tiny factor.

Geeze, if that's the case, then I should get the phone at Apple's stated retail next week. We spend $230 a month for two iPhones, two landlines and the fastest GSL. AT & T is slinging the bull to us.

[dizzy13]

Would be nice if they gave us the exact formula because so far that doesn't explain the whole thing. It only seems to be a tiny factor.

It seems like a bigger factor to me. I'm trying to collect more data on the monthly bill to upgrade date.

So far it seems the $90-95 range (which is probably the average iPhone bill) is 17 months into contract.

My bill at $110 is 12 months into contract.
My line 2 on the family plan at $40 is 20 months into contract.

My guess for the cheapest iPhone 3G plan (not in family plan) of $70 would be 18 months in.


Geeze, if that's the case, then I should get the phone at Apple's stated retail next week. We spend $230 a month for two iPhones, two landlines and the fastest GSL. AT & T is slinging the bull to us.

They break it down for each line. So I'm sure you main line can upgrade 12 months into the 2 year, which would be July 12th if you bought the 3G on launch day.

[michelle21]

Geeze, if that's the case, then I should get the phone at Apple's stated retail next week. We spend $230 a month for two iPhones, two landlines and the fastest GSL. AT & T is slinging the bull to us.

No, on a family plan there is a primary account I believe, and that primary account must be more than 100.00 before any taxes or additional fees.

It gets grey here, but I guess they consider the fees for the other phones addons and don't get figured into the equation.

Overly complicated... I think.

[streboRekiM]

Here's an idea... instead of punishing the faithful, why not offer those who aren't qualified an option to extend their contract. I have 14 months left on my contract and in exchange for getting the new phone, I would gladly extend it to 38 months.

[NAG]

Geeze, if that's the case, then I should get the phone at Apple's stated retail next week. We spend $230 a month for two iPhones, two landlines and the fastest GSL. AT & T is slinging the bull to us.

I'm of the opinion that there is an equation, but it is a borked equation that allows some people with a certain set of features to upgrade much faster than they should be able to. In other words there error isn't that we're not able to upgrade faster but that some people are able to upgrade before they should.

I'm completely fine and completely willing to just wait for the 2010 iPhone. I just want to know why there is such a huge variation in eligibility time.

[Chupa Chupa]

I was there for the launch day of the original 1st gen iPhone... Bought two of them (neither for me as I was still living in Europe at the moment) and those two were never upgraded to 3G models. Yesterday I ordered the 3GS models for those accounts, $199 each - no problem. When I moved to the States back in November of 07 one of the first things was my iPhone purchase and I never took advantage of purchasing a 3G model. Yet over 18 months later and Apple/AT&T charged me $399 to upgrade (I was on the phone for hours with both...)

So basically: purchased 1st gen iPhone in late 07 and now had to pay $399 (same as 3G purchasers)... Funny how I never took advantage of the subsidized pricing of the 3G when I could of but now a year later cannot take advantage of the 3GS at subsidized pricing.

Owell...

That's wrong since the 2G was unsubsidized. I'd bump it up the chain to someone who knows what they are doing and knows the dif b/t a 2G and 3G. You are are eligible for a $199/299 iPhone if you didn't get a 3G and the phone you are trying to upgrade is a 2G. You just have to sign a new contract. Worst case just go to a store and get it fixed.

[babyj]

So basically: purchased 1st gen iPhone in late 07 and now had to pay $399 (same as 3G purchasers)... Funny how I never took advantage of the subsidized pricing of the 3G when I could of but now a year later cannot take advantage of the 3GS at subsidized pricing.


Not sure about the US, but in the UK O2 were very clear that the discounted price for the 3G for customers with 1st Gen iPhones was for a limited period only (about 3-4 months after the 3G launch). After that you were locked in for the remainder of your contract with no subsidised upgrade price. It might have been harsh but they couldn't have stated it any clearer.

[jrichard012]

The upgrade pricing (any upgrade) is detailed on the att support page. It appears to be all based on your monthly total. plans totally more than 100.00 on the primary account get the better deal. Finding the info is like looking for Waldo...

Actually, if this is the case, our $230 monthly hit should qualify me for an Apple suggested retail of 199 or 299 next week. I cry bull on AT & T.

[dizzy13]

Here's an idea... instead of punishing the faithful, why not offer those who aren't qualified an option to extend their contract. I have 14 months left on my contract and in exchange for getting the new phone, I would gladly extend it to 38 months.

Yeah, I thought of this. I've been with at&t since they were at&t wireless (then cingular and now att). I doubt they would do that though b/c chances of someone leaving early would increase, increasing their risk.

[NAG]

Not sure about the US, but in the UK O2 were very clear that the discounted price for the 3G for customers with 1st Gen iPhones was for a limited period only (about 3-4 months after the 3G launch). After that you were locked in for the remainder of your contract with no subsidised upgrade price. It might have been harsh but they couldn't have stated it any clearer.

I don't believe AT&T is doing it like that. Sucks for O2 first gen iPhone users, I guess.

[xoph3]

See: http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone?mco=MTE2OTU

How much more transparancy do you need. The price is right on the store's product web page: (2) Requires new two-year AT&T wireless service contract, sold separately to qualified customers...For non-qualified customers, including existing AT&T customers who want to upgrade from another phone or replace an iPhone 3G, the price with a new two-year agreement is $499 (8GB), $599 (16GB), or $699 (32GB). (Italics and bold added for emphasis).

Fine print is transparent? You might want to tell folks like CNN about such things. Tell me how this sort of news story, which again I argue is caused by Apple carelessly flaunting an end customer price point that they ultimately do not decide, is transparent as to the true price of the device?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/06/08/apple.iphone.wwdc/index.html?iref=newssearch

Yes, I am smart enough to do my homework, I know the bait and switch tactics of the wireless industry all too well. But again I ask, why doesn't Blackberry or anyone else directly publicize any sort of pricing at all in their advertisements or launch announcements? So as to maybe avoid the angst we see now, even in this highly informed customer forum?

[Peace]

After all is said and done the end result is the end result.

People that purchased the iPhone 3G have to wait if they want the $199 price.

This very fact will hurt sales of the 3GS for both Apple and AT&T..

They get what they deserve.

Simple.

[michelle21]

It seems like a bigger factor to me. I'm trying to collect more data on the monthly bill to upgrade date.

So far it seems the $90-95 range (which is probably the average iPhone bill) is 17 months into contract.

My bill at $110 is 12 months into contract.
My line 2 on the family plan at $40 is 20 months into contract.

My guess for the cheapest iPhone 3G plan (not in family plan) of $70 would be 18 months in.




They break it down for each line. So I'm sure you main line can upgrade 12 months into the 2 year, which would be July 12th if you bought the 3G on launch day.

How can you consider landlines and dsl into that equation, we have those too, but they are not on the wireless plan... am I missing something I should know.

By the way, off topic. two weeks ago I had no less than 5 att people come to my door trying to get me to swith to uverse. When I asked why 4 more after I told one no, I was told well we really don't track what houses we visit.

Funny thing is , a few months earlier I had similar visits.

And you think the iphone thing is a mess???

[alawatsakima]

I love apple but they really need to get it together especially with this phone thing. I bought the first gen and left my great verizon service for the terrible att service, I upgraded to the 3g even though the features really didnt warrant an upgrade because I love apple and now they add things and services that they knowwwwwwwww should have been avaible at least on the 3g and apple and att have the nerve to say I not only have to pay more bu extend my cotract. Not to mention I got screwed on the whole firewire macbook deal. I keep follwing apple but boy a little consideration/respect would be nice :(

This is the kind of attitude I don't understand. Yes, the original iPhone lacked MMS. Yes, every other phone on the market has had MMS for the last 10 years. But let's try this on for size: How many web browsers support MMS? In the computer world, those protocols are cumitively known as "SMIL," and Safari is the first browser to support it. And as soon as Safari got that capability, iPhone got MMS. I wonder why Apple invested that money into R&D to develop SMIL if NOT for the iPhone? Where did that R&D money come from if not from the iPhone? I submit this: They gave us a great phone 2 years ago. I am thankfull for it. Why isn't that good enough for everyone else?

[dgonzalez201]

I paid full freight for mine today, with a bit under a year gone in my two year contract. Of course, I also dropped my iP3G last week and watched it get run over...thus my need for a new iPhone. I bought at the AT&T store locally; they told me that I could pick it up on the 19th between 7a-10a without waiting in line. After 10a, you apparently have to wait with everyone else.

[tomegun]

I didn't read through all the comments, but I'm wondering about my situation. My wife and I got iPhones in July and we paid $499 (I think). Isn't it correct that $499 wasn't the subsidized price? If so, why would we get treated as if we paid the subsidized place?

Besides all that, I'm not sure I'm going to get the phone anyway. This is the first phone I've had where I still like it a year later and I might just wait until we are out of contract - I'm not really sure what benefit there is to being out of contract.

[gentleman00]

Simple supply and demand. Apple can charge WHATEVER they want. But YOU don't have to buy it.

If fewer people demand the product, it will be on SALE or discontinued.

Simple economics.

I don't think it is so simple. They have done a good job with the supply side of things, but a lousy job in raising the demand for a product that is not so revolutionary.

[michelle21]

This is the kind of attitude I don't understand. Yes, the original iPhone lacked MMS. Yes, every other phone on the market has had MMS for the last 10 years. But let's try this on for size: How many web browsers support MMS? In the computer world, those protocols are cumitively known as "SMIL," and Safari is the first browser to support it. And as soon as Safari got that capability, iPhone got MMS. I wonder why Apple invested that money into R&D to develop SMIL if NOT for the iPhone? Where did that R&D money come from if not from the iPhone? I submit this: They gave us a great phone 2 years ago. I am thankfull for it. Why isn't that good enough for everyone else?

Again , people have different reason. And the iphone is about the only smart phone that doesn't have mms.

However there are other technologies that you can bring into play now with the iphone that will make MMS look like yesterdays news.

They are all based on something called comet-d and apple just made it a lot easier with push notification.

Also, I suspect this is one of the reasons apple did not include a front facing camera. Would not be surprised if the carriers had something to do with it.

did you know A LOT of smart phones are capable of wi-fi from the manufacturer but its disabled at the request of the carrier. This is more common in the US than elsewhere.

[babyj]

Here's an idea... instead of punishing the faithful, why not offer those who aren't qualified an option to extend their contract. I have 14 months left on my contract and in exchange for getting the new phone, I would gladly extend it to 38 months.

Yeah right.

If they did that, in another 12 months you'd want the latest iPhone in exchange for another 24 months on your contract, taking you up to 50 months. Then 12 months after that you'd want the next iPhone....

[Deniolan]

Unfortunately for you they are right. (By the way the dates you quote were '08 not '07). You bought your original iPhone and upgraded to the 3G a year ago, thus renewing your 2 year contract. The fact that you bought another phone with your own cash doesn't affect anything. Your original iPhone 3G contract still has a year to go, and that same stolen phone was subsidised. Yes, you bought an unsubsidised full-price phone in addition but that doesn't mean you bought out AT&T of the stolen one. AT&T had to buy 2 iPhone 3gs from Apple at full price and one of them to you was subsidised.

It's unfortunate that your phone got stolen but the fact you buy another one at full price (which anyone could do if they so wished) dosnt mean you're entitled to a free upgrade mid-contract.

You didn't read my post carefully. Correct the one date was 7/26/08. I said I dont mind paying the early term cancellation price of $399/$499. I don't plan on receiving the $199/$299 price - never have.

The price I am being quoted for upgrade is the full $599/$699 price. I currently have one phone in contract - the one I purchased for the subsidized price on 7/26/08. When it was stolen, the replacement was $538.62 on 8/7/08 - and was unsubsidized due to the price.

The problem is that despite the fact that I paid full price for the phone, AT&T counted it as an early upgrade - even though it was only 10 days or so after the original purchase. This means I am not eligible for early upgrade pricing now ($399/$499).

As I clearly stated - I'm not expecting the $199/$299 pricing - what I am expecting is the early update price of $399/$499 (half subsidized) and what I am also NOT expecting is what I am quoted, which is $599/$699.

At this point - my early termination cost is $120. It would make sense to activate a shiny new 3GS at the $299 price, then pay the $120 and cancel the other one.

What I am pointing out is that the upgrade pricing doesn't make sense - nor does the process. What I am also pointing out is that I purchased the phone on the same day as two of my other friends - and they are offered the $399/$499 pricing. What I am pointing out as well is that despite paying full price for a replacement phone, the crooks at AT&T are considering it an early upgrade, when they didn't upgrade squat.

Now, if you still think I'm out of line - that's great, but you're still not getting it. ;)

[michelle21]

Yeah right.

If they did that, in another 12 months you'd want the latest iPhone in exchange for another 24 months on your contract, taking you up to 50 months. Then 12 months after that you'd want the next iPhone....

12 month contracts are probably the best solution, even if they cost more monthly. That would more closely follow Apple's release cycle.

I think there is a different attitude for the Iphone buyer, its more of a handheld computer than a phone , but its in infancy.. fixes and upgrades come more frequently.

after seeing the keynote, I suspect the iphone is closer to a star trek tricoder or a PADD than a phone.

So I guess some kind of one year contract would make sense, but I don't pretend to have an idea what that would look like.

[neilford]

"As a valued AT&T customer, AT&T can offer you an early iPhone upgrade with
-------------------------------
a new 2-yr commitment and an $18 upgrade fee. You may qualify for a standard iPhone upgrade on 03/15/2010."

Har, har, har, har, har, har, har, har.....

[BearsFan34]

This will work. My mom and my aunt are on a family plan. My mom had the original iPhone, which didn't utilize a subsidy, so she still had an upgrade coming. My aunt gets the iPhone 3G then drops it in her white russian. ATT sold her a new phone at $199 using my mom's available upgrade. They don't care, so long as you have a qualifying upgrade available.

Good to know, but...since the family talk plan phone I'd be using to get the iPhone 3GS as an upgrade isn't an iPhone data line, I would then have TWO iPhone data plans within my AT&T account...and don't WANT to pay for two (the primary line on the account is my iPhone 3G, bought late July '08), just want to use the non-iPhone line in order to get the subsidized iPhone 3GS price.

How soon after getting the iPhone 3GS would I be able to swap SIM cards with my 3G and then DOWNGRADE the plan to a normal phone line? Wouldn't AT&T get suspicious if one-two days after "activating" a 3GS the line is being downgraded? I don't want to swap phone numbers just to get the 3GS...and if I would have to, I'll just pass on the 3GS altogether or wait until Jan. 2010 to get it.

[babyj]

12 month contracts are probably the best solution, even if they cost more monthly.

For a long time 12 month contracts were the norm in the UK, its was only about 18 months ago that longer contracts took over. With the speed the technology improves anything longer than 12 months gets things seriously out of sync.

[sslman]

My first iPhone was the 3G. When I bought it I was not upgrade eligible so I paid the fully UNsubsidized price. Today I went to ATT website and it said I'm still not eligible for the subsidized 3G S. I thought this was bizarre because the people that bought the 2G phone got upgraded after only 1 year because their phones were not subsidized. I called ATT and they wouldn't budge. He told me to go back to the retail store where I purchased the phone. My response was why would I go leave the house to talk to ATT when I have them on the phone. His response. "We don't deal with iPhones". Great customer service.

Now if I got the subsidized price on my 3G I wouldn't complain. But, I paid full price. It doesn't make sense. I'm trying to give them an extra $200 before my contract is up and effectively extend my contract another year and they won't take my money.

My wife is eligible for an upgrade but I think I'm moving to the Palm Pre for her. I've had it with ATT.

[bmoorhouse]

Here's an idea... instead of punishing the faithful, why not offer those who aren't qualified an option to extend their contract. I have 14 months left on my contract and in exchange for getting the new phone, I would gladly extend it to 38 months.

Yes, but while extending your contract another two years will help AT&T recoup their loss from subsidizing your new phone, it does nothing to help recover the loss they have not yet made up on the phone you currently have.

Once you've paid the subsidized amount by fullfilling your contract, you can upgrade.

It's the same as every other phone with every other carrier. Do you think anyone with a Touch Pro expeects HTC or their carrier to just add two years to their contract and give them a new phone because HTC released the Touch Pro 2?

[michelle21]

Yes, but while extending your contract another two years will help AT&T recoup their loss from subsidizing your new phone, it does nothing to help recover the loss they have not yet made up on the phone you currently have.

Once you've paid the subsidized amount by fullfilling your contract, you can upgrade.

It's the same as every other phone with every other carrier. Do you think anyone with a Touch Pro expeects HTC or their carrier to just add two years to their contract and give them a new phone because HTC released the Touch Pro 2?

Yes...

Did that with Sprint... once you get a cs on the line you can make all kind of deals.

[i3iz]

Look instead of moaning go on Ebay or Craigslist sell your iPhone 3g and go online and pre-order the 3g(s).... Simple as that!!!

I posted my 8GB 3g iphone today and sold it within 5 hours!!! I posted it for $320 and had 15 replies... I sold it for $330.. Now I have a gift card for the rest but lets assume I didn't.

$399.00
$ 36.91 tax 9.25%
$ 18.00 upgrade fee (mine is waived but for math purposes)
--------
$453.91 (Total after phone, tax, upgrade fee if not waived)
-$330.00 (From Selling 8GB 3g)
---------
$123.91 Out Of Pocket for New 3g(s) phone..

How hard was that!!!!!!!!!!!

Instead of Bitching just make it happen... If anyone has an issue with $123.91 you shouldn't have an iphone.


seriously. why is it so hard for people?

He're my other thought. ATT takes iphone and rigorously test it. If it works, then offers 1-200 credit. This is the old car-trade-in game. If they were smart they would do this.

$100-$200 used/refurb w/ no contract or free-$100 w/ 2 yr contract. Come on ATT, that's smart business.

[freedevil]

Just wait for the better super improved one next year.

[sschwar4]

I got an iPhone 3G on launch day in the UK and signed an 18 month contract at £45 a month and got the phone for free as it was subsidised.

12 months later, I don't expect an upgrade or treatment different to other o2 customers. I do expect an upgrade in December.

An 18 month contract is an 18 month contract - get used to it.

You got yours for FREE! That is a far cry from $299 + $150 a month. Even if I bought the unsubsidized version, it would be $699 and still have to go with AT&T. I don't get a break on service either. What is really the difference here? They get there money anyway, with or without a contract. You have no choice!

[babyj]

Now if I got the subsidized price on my 3G I wouldn't complain. But, I paid full price. It doesn't make sense. I'm trying to give them an extra $200 before my contract is up and effectively extend my contract another year and they won't take my money.

Why didn't you get a subsidised price for the 3G? Was it because you were already with ATT and already had a phone that they had subsidised? If so, that is the reason and it makes sense - they have to make their money back on any phones they subsidise.

[tingly]

You didn't read my post carefully. Correct the one date was 7/26/08. I said I dont mind paying the early term cancellation price of $399/$499. I don't plan on receiving the $199/$299 price - never have.

The price I am being quoted for upgrade is the full $599/$699 price. I currently have one phone in contract - the one I purchased for the subsidized price on 7/26/08. When it was stolen, the replacement was $538.62 on 8/7/08 - and was unsubsidized due to the price.

The problem is that despite the fact that I paid full price for the phone, AT&T counted it as an early upgrade - even though it was only 10 days or so after the original purchase. This means I am not eligible for early upgrade pricing now ($399/$499).

Maybe I'm not getting it, but your contract is what covers the original subsidy which won't be until next year. If you bought out of your contract and signed a new one instead of just replacing the phone, then I'd wonder what AT&T's problem is. I don't know who gets what share for in-store unsubsidized sales to know if you'd deserve a smaller price break. Could be the local store and Apple gets most.

[babyj]

You got yours for FREE! That is a far cry from $299 + $150 a month. Even if I bought the unsubsidized version, it would be $699 and still have to go with AT&T. I don't get a break on service either. What is really the difference here? They get there money anyway, with or without a contract. You have no choice!

It was only the 8Gb 3G model that you got for free from O2 with a £45 / 18 month contract - the 16Gb model cost just under £60 on the same plan. Don't worry about being left out, O2 are making up for it by increasing prices substantially for the 3GS. On the same tariff the 16Gb 3GS is £88 and the 32Gb £176. Which in effect are price increases of £88 and £120 respectively.

[michelle21]

Maybe I'm not getting it, but your contract is what covers the original subsidy which won't be until next year. If you bought out of your contract and signed a new one instead of just replacing the phone, then I'd wonder what AT&T's problem is. I don't know who gets what share for in-store unsubsidized sales to know if you'd deserve a smaller price break. Could be the local store and Apple gets most.

Wow , all these posts for what is a no-win situation. I always believed in the quote, "you fight the battles you know you can win". Iphone users this is a lost cause.

I've come to terms with that.

One thing I will mention, ATT's ugrade cycles appear to be based on how much you spend were other carriers seem to use a formula of years of service / payment history.

[VoR]

I've been with AT&T since they were att wireless and then became cingular and now at&T again... I'm not looking to go elsewhere... people who sit around and provider-hop are the reason things are like this! Sprint, T-Mobile, Verizon and AT&T ALL suck in some way or another but isnt that the case with any market?

And people like you are why the prices are so high? :)
I couldn't care less whos fault it is, but you get ripped off far more by being a 'loyal customer' - these companies are all uselessly run, disorganised and desperate for new customers.

I doubt it's much different in the US, but here it's easy to talk to a few people with contract phones, and see pricing varying from like £5 a month to £70 a month for the EXACT same service - they're also all probably think that they're getting ok value and "that's what it costs to have a phone"

[freedevil]

seriously. why is it so hard for people?

He're my other thought. ATT takes iphone and rigorously test it. If it works, then offers 1-200 credit. This is the old car-trade-in game. If they were smart they would do this.

$100-$200 used/refurb w/ no contract or free-$100 w/ 2 yr contract. Come on ATT, that's smart business.

The problem is this will count as an upgrade for you at unsubsidized price. What will you do when the next Iphone comes?

[michelle21]

The problem is this will count as an upgrade for you at unsubsidized price. What will you do when the next Iphone comes?

we have Sprint and ATT, when the Iphone came out , Sprint retention would of offered you just about any reasonable deal you could come up with.

Its pretty much the same here in the US.

[synth3tik]

Not being able to take advantage of the subsidized price leads me to not even consider upgrading. There is no sense in looking over the new iPhone if AT&T will not allow me to get the subsidized pricing.

[michelle21]

Not being able to take advantage of the subsidized price leads me to not even consider upgrading. There is no sense in looking over the new iPhone if AT&T will not allow me to get the subsidized pricing.

Have you looked at alternatives like adding a line, when I looked at the family talk plan and compared it to Sprint and verizon , it really doesn't seem like a bad deal. And you get the good upgrade plus you have two phones on different upgrade cycles.

[alphatectz]

So I pre-ordered the 32gb 3gs but my so call subsidized prices is 499 plus the 30 early upgrade fee, now I figured that I'll be paying 530 and change but then there's the tax which I guess will run my total amount is most likely 600. (damit :( )

Now if I somehow manage to sell my 16gb white 3g for about 400 hopefully 500 then I'll be fine. Other then that I'm screwed so I don't know if I should bother to pick it up or not.

[Grobe57214]

I can't believe some of the immature posts many of you have made. Let's be clear here, Apple and AT&T are corporations whose sole purpose is to make money. We, the consumers, are not going to be given benefits that would result in loss of revenue. Apple creates great products, but lets be honest, they are going to be releasing minor enhancements to the iphone every year for the sole purpose of gaining a greater market share, not necessarily maintaining the customers they have now because they know that those customers will continue to buy apple products. Are you guys seriously gonna be blaming AT&T (and I realize their service isn't the best) every single year when Apple announces a minor improvement and you want to spend your money as soon as possible to enjoy them? A contract is a contract. You guys aren't any different than any other person who has another phone under a contract. Having a cool, hip iphone doesn't make you special, please remember that.

[green tea]

Umm... Faster phone, better performance, better camera, compass (I could care less though), and the most awesome thing, in my opinion, VOICE COMMANDS!!!

faster, but lets not fall for that marketing BS of a lot faster :rolleyes:
better camera, still a POS camera. Get a DSLR + a quality lens if you want clear pics.
voice commands, if you like it, more power to you

[michelle21]

faster, but lets not fall for that marketing BS of a lot faster :rolleyes:
better camera, still a POS camera. Get a DSLR + a quality lens if you want clear pics.
voice commands, if you like it, more power to you

You know sometimes its in the presentation and Apple is good at that.

I wonder if there would be less ill feelings if Apple had announced the price as 399.00, but also stated that you carrier has the option to give you a better price.

[xoph3]

I can't believe some of the immature posts many of you have made. Let's be clear here, Apple and AT&T are corporations whose sole purpose is to make money. We, the consumers, are not going to be given benefits that would result in loss of revenue. Apple creates great products, but lets be honest, they are going to be releasing minor enhancements to the iphone every year for the sole purpose of gaining a greater market share, not necessarily maintaining the customers they have now because they know that those customers will continue to buy apple products. Are you guys seriously gonna be blaming AT&T (and I realize their service isn't the best) every single year when Apple announces a minor improvement and you want to spend your money as soon as possible to enjoy them? A contract is a contract. You guys aren't any different than any other person who has another phone under a contract. Having a cool, hip iphone doesn't make you special, please remember that.

QFT

The sense of entitlement some folks here seem to hold is really astonishing.

[michelle21]

QFT

The sense of entitlement some folks here seem to hold is really astonishing.

Until they lose their jobs, then watch how fast loyalty goes out the door!!!

Lot of ATT folks lurking this forum, some very helpful, the one guy yesterday answered a lot of questions. But some just very condescending. The moderators are not on their toes.

[wolfenkraft]

Part of the reason this is "news" is because even with the partially subsidized price of $399 for the 16GB, you still have to sign a new 2 year contract. So, really they are getting an extra year of contract for free. The early upgrade subsidy is approx 1/2 of the "new" subsidy. Both require 2 year contracts.

[mmendoza27]

Might not make a huge difference, but start linking to this on your twitter if you have one guys: http://twitition.com/f96aq

It's a petition to lower the price of the iPhone. I don't think it'll do anything big, but it's worth a try.

Yes, spread the word!

[michelle21]

Part of the reason this is "news" is because even with the partially subsidized price of $399 for the 16GB, you still have to sign a new 2 year contract. So, really they are getting an extra year of contract for free. The early upgrade subsidy is approx 1/2 of the "new" subsidy. Both require 2 year contracts.

Guess there are a lot of dumb people out there! Because if you look at google this is a pretty hot topic. And ATT is not getting a lot of sympathy.

Maybe its because people are getting pushed into all kinds of contracts unwittingly and they are just now starting to look at those contracts and say fowl.

[cleric]

How is anyone surprised by this so ATT decided last time the phone was a big enough upgrade they didn't want to **** the early adopters. Now its back to business as usual not to mention your iphone 3g is still worth $400ish dollars.

[futiaexpo79]

Hey folks,

I'm a newbie (first time writer, long time listener) and I'm sure I'm late to the party, but just in case it hasn't been said already...

For those in the UK, do NOT ask in or call any of the physical stores for anything to do with Iphone upgrades. They have been told to just cite the party line.

BUT if you phone O2 directly and ask to be put through to your contract manager then things get a little more interesting...

Apparently O2 customers are tiered depending on their usage and spending habits. If, like me, you travel and run up higher than usual monthly bills then you very quickly become a 'platinum level' customer. As such, when I mentioned the possibility of an early upgrade my very helpful contract manager informed me that, once the initial craziness has subsided, they will be posting an Iphone 3Gs handset out to me - probably a few weeks after release. The price of the handset will be added to my next bill, but I will NOT have to pay any of the outstanding months on my contract (which, like most, does not end until January...)

So. There you go. Thought some might find that a little interesting!

[MojoWill]

everyone should stop crying and just enjoy their iPhone 3G!

[Agent]

Sorry if this is a repost. I skimmed through the 11 pages really fast and wanted to shed some light on the upgrade pricing and qualifying.

It varys on a few different things. One if you are on a family plan with ATT and you are the main number you can upgrade early say 18 months, however if you are an addon line then mostly you have to wait the full 24 months to upgrade. This is upgrading only not the end of the contract. The end of the contract is 24months no matter how your account is set up. Also if you have have great I mean great not good payment history ATT will let you upgrade early 18 months. Have bad payment history and I have seen accounts that ATT will not let upgrade even if they are out of contract. Granted the customer can cancel and renew but there would probably be a deposit and they would lose there number. This sucks but its they way ATT is setup. I don't work for ATT but I work for a retailer who handles the iphone and I run the cellphone department in that store. So I know a little about how the upgrade process works and I'm dealing with the angry customers first hand even though I'M NOT ATT :)

[michelle21]

everyone should stop crying and just enjoy their iPhone 3G!

You know in the end most of the complainers (me included) are just going to find justification and upgrade.

Human Nature, Companies depend on that. ;)

Mine is already on Reserve, whatever that means?

[MOFS]

Ok, some points here to help*/muddy the waters* (*delete where applicable:p)

1) Importantly Apple are accounting for the iPhone differently. From Macworld's coverage of the 2008 iPhone event: (http://www.macworld.com/article/132376/2008/03/liveupdate.html)The way we account for the iPhone is with subscription accounting, so we take the revenue over two years. The way that we account for iPods, is more normal accounting. No lost revenue if you don't get a phone this year – your original contract will count towards Apple's revenue stream.

2) AT&T employees make mistakes!:eek: As shocking as it sounds, much of the confusion appears to be from people being told different things by different people. By default, go to your carrier site, and they should be able to tell you. O2 in the UK, for example, say this (http://shop.o2.co.uk/update/paymonth.html).Upgrade
If you're already with us on Pay Monthly, you can upgrade to the new iPhone 3G when it's time to upgrade. It's usually the last month of your contract, but you can check at My O2. To be eligible in the US, you appear to have to be within 18th month or less of your 2 yearly contract, but this appears to depend on whether you renewed your contract to get a new contract when the 3G came out (ie you have a 2 year contract from this time last year) or you essentially bought a 3G and kept your iPhone EDGE contract (ie your contract is about to expire now). Check your contract to clarify, and if that fails, the link for At&T is here (https://www.wireless.att.com/olam/loginAction.olamexecute?target=UpgradePH) for you to check whether you can save some bucks if you upgrade now.
3) Asking for Apple/AT&T to suddenly have 1 year contracts and let everyone upgrade now is silly and pointless. The genius of the iPhone is not just its software and ease of use - it's the fact that it has encouraged millions of new customers to take out the higher tariffs that previously only the high-powered businessmen were taking. The major selling point of the iPhone for the carriers is just exactly the fact that it hooks people into paying £45 a month on the latest phone as opposed to £15 on a bog-standard handset that texts and calls. They are getting more bang for their infrastructure.

[ttopp]

o2 has a cheek the price is almost doubled and well over 500 quid for the pay as u go. would have got that and just swapped the sim. might get one fi abroad.

would it work way my o2 sim if i import the hardware??

[babyj]

BUT if you phone O2 directly and ask to be put through to your contract manager then things get a little more interesting...

Apparently O2 customers are tiered depending on their usage and spending habits. If, like me, you travel and run up higher than usual monthly bills then you very quickly become a 'platinum level' customer. As such, when I mentioned the possibility of an early upgrade my very helpful contract manager informed me that, once the initial craziness has subsided, they will be posting an Iphone 3Gs handset out to me - probably a few weeks after release.

I'm not sure they actually gave you anything extra, over what you get anyway - the early upgrades are a part of their Priority List programme:
- Silver Level (spend £35 to £50 a month), upgrade 1 month early
- Gold Level (spend £50 to £80 a month), upgrade 3 months early.
- Platinum Level (spend over £80 a month), upgrade 6 months early.

The early upgrades appear to work if you upgrade online as well.

[xerenthar]

faster, but lets not fall for that marketing BS of a lot faster :rolleyes:
better camera, still a POS camera. Get a DSLR + a quality lens if you want clear pics.
voice commands, if you like it, more power to you

yeah let me just take this DSLR around in my pocket with me everywhere

****in plz

that's like saying who needs an FM tuner, just carry a ****ing boombox around

[michelle21]

Ok, some points here to help*/muddy the waters* (*delete where applicable:p)

1) Importantly Apple are accounting for the iPhone differently. From Macworld's coverage of the 2008 iPhone event: (http://www.macworld.com/article/132376/2008/03/liveupdate.html) No lost revenue if you don't get a phone this year – your original contract will count towards Apple's revenue stream.

2) AT&T employees make mistakes!:eek: As shocking as it sounds, much of the confusion appears to be from people being told different things by different people. By default, go to your carrier site, and they should be able to tell you. O2 in the UK, for example, say this (http://shop.o2.co.uk/update/paymonth.html). To be eligible in the US, you appear to have to be within 18th month or less of your 2 yearly contract, but this appears to depend on whether you renewed your contract to get a new contract when the 3G came out (ie you have a 2 year contract from this time last year) or you essentially bought a 3G and kept your iPhone EDGE contract (ie your contract is about to expire now). Check your contract to clarify, and if that fails, the link for At&T is here (https://www.wireless.att.com/olam/loginAction.olamexecute?target=UpgradePH) for you to check whether you can save some bucks if you upgrade now.
3) Asking for Apple/AT&T to suddenly have 1 year contracts and let everyone upgrade now is silly and pointless. The genius of the iPhone is not just its software and ease of use - it's the fact that it has encouraged millions of new customers to take out the higher tariffs that previously only the high-powered businessmen were taking. The major selling point of the iPhone for the carriers is just exactly the fact that it hooks people into paying £45 a month on the latest phone as opposed to £15 on a bog-standard handset that texts and calls. They are getting more bang for their infrastructure.

One year contracts, going forward not grandfathered are not a bad business model, if you charge more for the monthly tiered services.

Are you telling me that a one year contract that starts at the end of someones current contract. I'm talking going forward. but with almost double the cost for voice and data (you get the hit monthly rather than later) isn't as cost effective as a 2 yr contract from the carriers perspective.

of course you would need careful marketing to convince the customer to take the plan.

Hmm this sounds a lot like what ATT does now, too bad they don't publish it clearly for people can understand it.

[michelle21]

Check out the ATT wireless page www.att.com

They have a photo of the iphone with a big button in the middle saying Add a line. Kind of interesting...

[Beau10]

Part of the reason this is "news" is because even with the partially subsidized price of $399 for the 16GB, you still have to sign a new 2 year contract. So, really they are getting an extra year of contract for free. The early upgrade subsidy is approx 1/2 of the "new" subsidy. Both require 2 year contracts.

It's sounds like you're saying the new contract you sign follows the original... that's not the case. If you had the 3G for 1 year and are signing a new contract, that's 3 years total. 1 phone fully subsidized = 2 years. 1 phone half subsized = 1 year.

It works out perfectly.

I can totally see how some are questioning how some are arbitrarily getting out of this in a year vs. 1.5 years... aside from that this is fair though.

[abbstrack]

i purhchased a 16gb iphone 3g in october 08 from an apple store at the then un-subsidized price of $499...was told that because i was buying at unsubsidized price, it would not affect my upgrade eligibility, which then read i was eligible as of late may, 2009. went to check online yesterday, upgrade eligibility has suspiciously changed to march 2010.

called at&T, explained the situation, was told to take my receipt from original purchase into an at&T store and they would clear up the situation. took my receipt today, was told by the rep (and the manager) at the at&t store that the $500 i paid was a 'somewhat' subsidized price, and because i didnt pay $699 i was not eligible for an upgrade. told them that was the first time i ever heard a $699 price tag for the iphone 3g, and maybe they were confusing the 3g with the 3Gs. after some back and forth, manager said he cant do anything for me.

called customer service from the store, was put on hold for a total of about 20 minutes, and was finally told that they could not do anything for me. told them this was completely unacceptable, and it needed to be escalated. i now have a pending case open, that will supposedly get resolution on the 18th.

at&t needs to get it right. i did everything the right way in order to prepare myself for an upgrade. the last subsidized purchase i made from at&T was dec. 24, 2007 when i upgraded to the blackberry cure. they seem to be raising the bar now, which is wrong.

[michelle21]

i purhchased a 16gb iphone 3g in october 08 from an apple store at the then un-subsidized price of $499...was told that because i was buying at unsubsidized price, it would not affect my upgrade eligibility, which then read i was eligible as of late may, 2009. went to check online yesterday, upgrade eligibility has suspiciously changed to march 2010.

called at&T, explained the situation, was told to take my receipt from original purchase into an at&T store and they would clear up the situation. took my receipt today, was told by the rep (and the manager) at the at&t store that the $500 i paid was a 'somewhat' subsidized price, and because i didnt pay $699 i was not eligible for an upgrade. told them that was the first time i ever heard a $699 price tag for the iphone 3g, and maybe they were confusing the 3g with the 3Gs. after some back and forth, manager said he cant do anything for me.

called customer service from the store, was put on hold for a total of about 20 minutes, and was finally told that they could not do anything for me. told them this was completely unacceptable, and it needed to be escalated. i now have a pending case open, that will supposedly get resolution on the 18th.

at&t needs to get it right. i did everything the right way in order to prepare myself for an upgrade. the last subsidized purchase i made from at&T was dec. 24, 2007 when i upgraded to the blackberry cure. they seem to be raising the bar now, which is wrong.

Thats it I'm tired of clicking the refresh button. I'm going to go off and design a totally new forum that uses direct push to show posts.

Nicee way of saying these posts are going no where!!!

[Axl Rose]

I donr know about you guys...but i plan on updating every other year..i mean who needs a new phone every year???Plus updates seem better that way.;)

[alchemistmuffin]

It looks like all the country with iPhone have people up in arms.

US: at&t not enabling tethering and MMS on June 17

O2: Outrageous Phone Plans, and ridiculous extra fee for tethering.

I wonder, how does the plan look for the other countries, because SoftBank, you can get iPhone 3G 8gb for FREE! (and the only one currently available), and also provides discounted billing plans under some of their plans, along with discounted price on iPhone 3G-S.

Is this the start of Cell Phone Company Revolt?

[filmfanatic24]

I don't particularly understand the complaining. If you aren't qualified and have to have it the second it comes out then sign up and order it. Then, when it comes, turn around and sell your 3G on eBay. Right now you can get about $300 for one in good condition. That more than makes up for the price and you end up having to pay about the same amount you would if you completely qualified for the subsidy.

[point665]

That's wrong since the 2G was unsubsidized. I'd bump it up the chain to someone who knows what they are doing and knows the dif b/t a 2G and 3G. You are are eligible for a $199/299 iPhone if you didn't get a 3G and the phone you are trying to upgrade is a 2G. You just have to sign a new contract. Worst case just go to a store and get it fixed.

Hi,

Thanks for the reply... I thought so too but I spoke with so many different supervisors (constantly being moved up) and they told me that I am not eligible for an iPhone upgrade and no one can override that. Its funny though, if you bought a 3G iPhone on the day of the launch its saying you can buy a 3GS at the 199 price after 18 months of owning the 3G... Its been past 18 months for my contract with the original first gen iPhone, yet I cant buy a 3GS at the 199 price... I already placed an order for the $399 though.

[babyj]

i purhchased a 16gb iphone 3g in october 08 from an apple store at the then un-subsidized price of $499...was told that because i was buying at unsubsidized price, it would not affect my upgrade eligibility, which then read i was eligible as of late may, 2009. went to check online yesterday, upgrade eligibility has suspiciously changed to march 2010.

at&t needs to get it right. i did everything the right way in order to prepare myself for an upgrade. the last subsidized purchase i made from at&T was dec. 24, 2007 when i upgraded to the blackberry cure. they seem to be raising the bar now, which is wrong.

$499 was the early upgrade price. $699 the unsubsidised price. So if the Apple store said it was unsubsidised, they were wrong and it did affect your upgrade eligibility. If you're going to complain to anyone it should be the Apple store, though I'd check the paper work first to see what you signed and agreed to.

[mrobmsu]

is anyone else having problems with the online apple store crashing safari? i just updated safari, and every time i visit the store.apple.com web page it crashes safari!

this is getting very frustrating. . .

any advice?