Getting my v 2,2 MBA 2.13 GHz with SSD tomorrow afternoon! I will report back then. [Archive]

Scottsdale

Jun 9, 2009, 07:28 PM

Well, not so fast.

Sure the CPU boost is the main thing.

The GPU is now 6x the performance whereas it was 4x the performance before. Does this mean the GPU is maxed out now instead of limited???

Battery life supposedly gained 30 minutes of time between charges.

What I actually will be reviewing is the differences between the 13" MacBook Pro and the 2.13 GHz MBA with SSD, and the older 1.86 GHz MBA with SSD, and with varying RAM amounts in the MBP to show what programs need how much RAM and etc etc etc.

I hypothesize that I will still want the MBA because the RAM isn't needed. However, if the battery in the 13" MBP is truly a 7-hour battery, AND if the display is better, I may want to lug around an extra 1.5 lbs???

I enjoy this stuff. I am going to work on it with some friends. One of them is a techie, and I hope he has some great ideas on performance tests for them all. Some real world examples with me writing the whole thing at the end.

IF anyone is in the Phoenix Metropolitan Area and wants to do some of this with a group of Mac lovers, let me know. Also looking for other new/older Macs to review??? Anyone around area and want to share performance measurements of their Mac is welcome. So for me it's about fun not work. It's enjoyment to do this and REPORT my findings. I love sharing with others.

Scottsdale

Jun 9, 2009, 07:33 PM

What do you hope to learn from your review?

"Its just like the 1.8/128 Rev B Air, but with a little faster peak processor speed!"

There, I reviewed it for you, now you can spend the time just enjoying your new Mac. ;)

How are you enjoying your Palm Pre? Why no iPhone?

929406

Jun 9, 2009, 08:29 PM

Scotsdale your a gun! Keep doing what you enjoy as we all benefit from your experience. Wish I had the time to do it

snowboarder

Jun 10, 2009, 01:10 AM

Please try to check the SSD model (has it changed since Rev B?).
I think I might pick one up, just that stupid screen line issue is a turn off...

macbook123

Jun 10, 2009, 02:08 AM

Maven1975

Jun 10, 2009, 05:06 AM

How are you enjoying your Palm Pre? Why no iPhone?

Scottsdale,

I'm getting the 13 MBP tomorrow from Arrowhead. It will be interesting to see the difference as I have been a long time Air user. I sold my 1.86 Air last week for 2k. I smelled a rat and wanted an excuse to try out the the new MB screen.

I found the screen to be about 85-90 percent of the Air. It just still did not seem as saturated as the Airs. Anyways, I hope the GPU is untamed this time and they eased up on the throttling. That, coupled with better battery life would be an awesome machine.

BTW. I have a Pre and like it. Its no iphone, but I don't have to take it in the shorts come bill time like I did with AT&T. Plus, here in my neck of the woods, AT&T just plain sucks.

Mactagonist

Jun 10, 2009, 10:23 AM

How are you enjoying your Palm Pre? Why no iPhone?

- AT&T is just not a good option in NYC. Their network is still tremendously overcapacity thanks to all the iPhone users! :) Try using data or even making a call at peak times and you are in for a painful, frustrating experience.

- I like keyboards.

- While I think the iPhone is aesthetically more beautiful the Pre is much more organic and pleasant to use. Thicker, more rounded body with a softer, warmer feel to it vs the colder, more squared off iPhone. (Think Pismo vs unibody Macbook Pro)

- Sprint is a much better value then AT&T even if they both gave equal service. (and in fact, AT&T's service is objectively worse despite their higher prices) I have 2 phones sharing a plan for less then I would pay for 1 iPhone with fewer features on AT&T.

I think the Pre has tremendous potential. It reminds me of the original EDGE iPhone in many ways. A new and carefully designed interface, some amazing features and some silly oversights and bugs that will be refined away over the next few months.

Scottsdale

Jun 10, 2009, 08:51 PM

Ok, one MBA opened, and one MBA 2.13 with terrible lines and 9C90 worthless display! My last MBA was 9C9A and had no lines. Why would Apple do this???

ayeying

Jun 10, 2009, 09:25 PM

Mine should arrive tomorrow in the mail. Hopefully it won't have a bad screen.

glitch44

Jun 10, 2009, 09:26 PM

Ok, one MBA opened, and one MBA 2.13 with terrible lines and 9C90 worthless display! My last MBA was 9C9A and had no lines. Why would Apple do this???

Argh, that sucks, Scottsdale. You gonna take it back?

aaquib

Jun 10, 2009, 09:26 PM

Wow, even with Rev.C's the line issue still exists??! Go back immediately and get it replaced. That's just unacceptable.

h1d

Jun 10, 2009, 09:27 PM

Unbelievable man this is. Does the QA team got sunglasses on all day long?

Carl Abudephane

Jun 10, 2009, 09:35 PM

Ok, one MBA opened, and one MBA 2.13 with terrible lines and 9C90 worthless display! My last MBA was 9C9A and had no lines. Why would Apple do this???

Quite simply, because they don't give a damn. About the Air. This is no longer a discussion point.
I'm very sorry you have got a dud Scottsdale, really am. To be honest I kinda thought you were likely to, as I've already read multiple comments from people who have just bought new Airs and have got lines and also because I've seen one new Air so far, and it had lines. I obviously think it's appalling, but more than that, it is making me seriously question whether Apple deserve any loyalty whatsoever, from any of us.

What is one to think now regarding the future of the Air? I now think that it's destined to be eol'd. The treatment Apple have given it with this 'update' and still letting sub-standard units be sent out there, is right in line with the treatment it gets in their retail stores.
To make it worse, I have bought a 13" MacBook Pro today, and I have to say that the display is lovely, as good as any other Mac I think, to be honest.

I wanted an Air but the RAM limit makes it impossible for me, even in the short term, never mind two years+ from now. All the other features we wanted and that it didn't get, I could understand right now, but not the RAM. That told me they didn't even want to make any effort with it, but still I was thinking, 'well - maybe a high-end Air in several months ... ', but now, with the lines still there? No, I don't think so. They should be ashamed of themselves, and I am absolutely not being overly dramatic in saying that.
So I went for the 13", but only really to see if I can live with the glassy display, otherwise it means the 17" matte and that's blows every penny I have(and more). To be honest, I think I'm going to struggle, based on two hours using it in perfect lighting conditions at home, but I'll give it a shot and who knows, maybe I'll start to get used to it. If not, I return it and plump for the 17" I suppose.

Anyway, I digress, and it's the Air you're bothered about here. I don't know what to say Scottsdale; what are you going to do? Return and exchange?
Nobody should suffer an Air with lines at this point, but least of all you given the time you've put in hereabouts championing the thing.
You could keep trying and hopefully, quickly, you'll get a perfect Screen, but even then, the situation stinks. Why hasn't anybody at Apple got the guts to deal with this issue. What about goddamn-prescious-as-hell Jonathon-bloody-Ive and his 'quality control' and nothing-less-than-the-best-bollocks?

That what it is, all this. Nothing but bollocks. They are effectively doing their damnedest to kill the best product they have ever come up with. Why?

Best of luck with whatever course of action you take, and try to keep your chin up.

macinsomniac

Jun 10, 2009, 10:08 PM

Hanging tight in anticipation of news from Scottsdale on his 3rd try. Is it a charm?

macinsomniac

Jun 10, 2009, 10:09 PM

Did Apple lay off all of their QC employees?

Disavowed

Jun 10, 2009, 10:35 PM

Hanging tight in anticipation of news from Scottsdale on his 3rd try. Is it a charm?

as much as it pains me to admit it, me too :cool:

sherthang

Jun 10, 2009, 10:36 PM

I'm at the 5th ave store and all 4 on display (2 x 1.86 & 2 x 2.13) all are 9C90 with lines

Scottsdale

Jun 10, 2009, 10:41 PM

Hanging tight in anticipation of news from Scottsdale on his 3rd try. Is it a charm?

Have not opened yet. Going to do a few things. Will report back tonight.

Disavowed

Jun 10, 2009, 11:03 PM

Have not opened yet. Going to do a few things. Will report back tonight.

Give those on the east coast a break and bust it open!

PimpIntInxs

Jun 10, 2009, 11:18 PM

tubbymac

Jun 10, 2009, 11:23 PM

Ok, one MBA opened, and one MBA 2.13 with terrible lines and 9C90 worthless display! My last MBA was 9C9A and had no lines. Why would Apple do this???

Oh man, that just gets my blood boiling. I'm sorry Apple still hasn't fixed the problem. This is unacceptable. I hope you end up getting one without lines after an exchange.

Scottsdale

Jun 10, 2009, 11:56 PM

Give those on the east coast a break and bust it open!

Ok, umh it will not turn on! Seriously, I got a DEAD MBA! At least I don't have to think of what to do with it.

Scottsdale

Jun 11, 2009, 12:01 AM

Worst part is that I gave my MacBook to my kids today. I am typing this on my iPhone. I am unfortunately boiling right now.

I am a huge Apple fan, and I really believe we all deserve better!

I may crack this open and see if loose battery connection or something. Maybe even a bad button. It makes no sound, no lights, no nothing!

Maybe it doesn't have lines???

iAmLegend

Jun 11, 2009, 12:01 AM

Ok, umh it will not turn on! Seriously, I got a DEAD MBA! At least I don't have to think of what to do with it.

And I am now buying a 13" MBP in 3...2...1...

h1d

Jun 11, 2009, 12:02 AM

haha... not even powering... that's nice joke given by Apple

Balthezor

Jun 11, 2009, 12:03 AM

Oh man. This is just bad. Sorry to hear about that Scottsdale.

eVolcre

Jun 11, 2009, 12:06 AM

Ok, umh it will not turn on! Seriously, I got a DEAD MBA! At least I don't have to think of what to do with it.

This is NUTS! I've been following the threads here in this forum. Just got back from the Apple store in Santa Monica where every new model was displayed.

I was ready to move from my current 17" to a 15" MBP but the screen resolution is a joke and it's not THAT much more portable than its larger brother.

So it's either stay with the 17" or go all the way down to 13. The 13" "MBP" does nothing for me. No lust factor. I really ****** WANT an MBA but not at this rate. No way am I buying something that may be EOLed soon.

Hope y'all have better luck with the screens. I'll be lurking with interest.

Apple, for the first time in 5 years you have no offerings I really really want. I'm probably going to stick with my 2006 MBP 17". It works! (and IMO, I prefer the old all silver look anyway)

Do something with the MBA or better yet, give us a 15" version.

eV

jrichie

Jun 11, 2009, 12:08 AM

sorry to say this guys but I just got a refurb, and it is absolutely mint. No lines or anything.

I think it was the best bargain I have got in ages!!! 1.86 with SSD for NZ $2899 inc gst. :)

hope all turns out well for you.

macinsomniac

Jun 11, 2009, 12:08 AM

I don't even know what to say; Speechless.

Scottsdale

Jun 11, 2009, 12:08 AM

Mine has lines too I just saw a picture of what they are and i looked real close and i saw them :(relatively faint... im afraid if i exchange... i might get a worse one?

am i crazy or is this screen just NOT that bright? and yes ive hit F2 all the way...

I almost wish that I would have kept the second one. If number four has bad lines, I will buy a refurb 1.86/SSD for $1449. Many of those don't have the 9C90! I would take a 1.86/SSD with 9C8F over a 2.13/SSD for $1799 with lines.

If you need 2.13 GHz, go with the one you have. The first one I opened was completely terrible. The second was very faint only noticeable on white.

Balthezor

Jun 11, 2009, 12:23 AM

Scottsdale, if you buy a refurb, let us know how the screen is and if the Air seems brand new. This sucks, because I still so want an Air.

xpovos

Jun 11, 2009, 12:24 AM

If you need 2.13 GHz, go with the one you have. The first one I opened was completely terrible. The second was very faint only noticeable on white.

Even though I had already decided on (and bought) a 15" MBP, I was really hoping you would have good luck, Scottsdale. Based on what I've seen today, what you've written, and what we've now read from several other posters, the lines issue seems to be at least as common on the new ones as it was before, and possibly even more so. Granted that a few threads on a discussion forum say nothing about the percentage of affected units, but the fact that they are still using that horrible panel at all is insulting. After all the complaints and returns, acknowledgment by Apple support staff that it was a known issue, etc.... A slap in the face.

Disavowed

Jun 11, 2009, 02:09 AM

Even though I had already decided on (and bought) a 15" MBP, I was really hoping you would have good luck, Scottsdale. Based on what I've seen today, what you've written, and what we've now read from several other posters, the lines issue seems to be at least as common on the new ones as it was before, and possibly even more so. Granted that a few threads on a discussion forum say nothing about the percentage of affected units, but the fact that they are still using that horrible panel at all is insulting. After all the complaints and returns, acknowledgment by Apple support staff that it was a known issue, etc.... A slap in the face.

I have to agree on all counts. I think I speak for most that aside from the RAM issue, most ppl on here would be happy with the little bumps in ghz, battery, and cache....IF the line issue would have been addressed. I was SO looking forward to my own MBA after WWDC and was so pumped when they lead with hardware announcements, which we all know, they rarely do and now I am back to where I started; contemplating the 13 or 15 MBP, and I can't even figure THAT out anymore. I'm bummed.:(

Disavowed

Jun 11, 2009, 02:15 AM

Ok, umh it will not turn on! Seriously, I got a DEAD MBA! At least I don't have to think of what to do with it.

sheesh.........I figure someone from Apple would have personally delivered a flawless MBA to you since there it little doubt that you are the machine's biggest fan. That said, that wopuld be presumptuous of the fact that someone from Apple would be reading these posts and doing something about the issues discussed here. I am speechless. Like someone else said earlier, I feel like we got slapped in the face as a group. :mad:

BigB82

Jun 11, 2009, 02:21 AM

Ok just saw my 1.6 120gb is 09c90 and manf date is c2486d00 and manf is 610, now what does all this mean? I do see lines they are horizontal almost in a perfect pattern from top to bottom , best way to describe it is it looks like a bunch of perfect lined finger prints all over, is that the lines you all speak of here? by any chance is this display the reason I feel the ical red icon looks like such a dull red where as on my mac mini its a nicer bright red or am i being to paranoid?

Considering this has been sitting brand new under my bed since february and i just opened it n turned it on today, since i had an older one I was using that I sold last week, would they replace in store for new one or Id have to go through applecare? in either case would they just replace display or give me a whole new unit?
thanks guys

i did screen capture dont know if that will allow you guys to see but here and tell me what u think
http://img32.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=picture1nbi.png

but I also just took a picture from my cam cuz it looks like the screen capture isn't showing it on my dell anyways
http://img31.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=img0025v.jpg

in any case im NOT trying to get something for nothing ill pay a difference if i have to or whatever else....I am mad at nobody but myself that i didnt turn this on sooner cause i DO see the lines i need confirmation from you guys though...but jeez even if the new one has lines i dont want it lol....I really didn't think the line issue was THIS widespread ....wow iv always known apple to be a very meticulous company why are they not fixing this? I finally searched this forum and googled it and DAMN im pissed off at myself first than at apple

Veinticinco

Jun 11, 2009, 03:58 AM

What a crock of ***** this is.

Scottsdale, sorry for you I really am - looks like your "third time's a charm" hope was about as 'lucky' as mine earlier this year. I too had nos. 1 and 2 riddled with lines to varying degrees, and the third (the least worse display of the bunch, naturally!) had another hardware problem so I wasn't prepared to risk keeping.

I must admit I suspected that this rev.C would have the same issues - and the second it was clear from the keynote that there was no new display for the MBA unlike the new MBP displays, I just knew it. But to have those fears confirmed just makes my blood boil in anger. How DARE they. They know about the problem of that there's no doubt. So it's clearly a beancounter thing - they figure the cost of fixing it or utilising a different display, far outweighs the cost of having to deal with returns and pissed off customers or "nitpickers" as they probably see those like us who find the issue unacceptable.

What STILL makes me insane is the fact that the issue is variable and therefore all down to QC. It's not a 'quirk' of the machine, it's just shoddy QC and a reluctance and apathy to do anything about it. How ridiculous and infuriating is it that an old display model - the 9C8F - used mostly in the rev.A and some early rev.B's - is the only display reported to be issue-free, and YET STILL they won't listen or act. The FOOLS!!!! :mad:

I've said it before, but given how cursory and half-hearted the MBA 'upgrade' was this time round (no reason whatsoever NOT to solder a 4GB RAM chip on the board aside from cost), and what they've done to the MBP range, in particular the 13", it's now obvious to me what the plan is for the MBA...

The 'Air' brand will not see a next revision... of that I'm convinced.

They are merely keeping the form factor in production to await the components and the development time required to be able to 'thin' the 13" MBP 'guts' down into an 'MBA' type case at some point in 2010. Think of the MBA as a beautiful coma patient on life support showing negligible brain activity but with healthy organs in a rare and elegant configuration never seen before, and so kept on ice for clinical research and development purposes - not a perfect analogy admittedly but there you go.

Veinticinco

Jun 11, 2009, 04:14 AM

P.S.

I'll still await your comparison MBA vs. 13 MBP review with curious interest of course, but right now, so incensed am I by the SHEER ARROGANCE and APATHY shown by Apple towards what used to be and still should be their PREMIER FLAGSHIP product, that I'm bordering on not giving them one single euro of my money right now.

As much as I love the MBA, and as much as I realise the new 13" MBP is by far the best all-round choice for a portable Mac right now, I'm not sure I'll jump aboard and just bunker down with my current Mac hardware and wait it out another 6 months. Since I'm not losing a wink of sleep about not being encouraged to upgrade my white 16GB iPhone 3G to the 'new' 3GS (a stopgap model if ever there was one), instead just updating the software, then I think I'm capable of surviving another half year or so without a new laptop. I may crack and get me a new MBP, but then again I may not.

One thing is for sure, right now I'm one very pissed off Apple loyalist of 15 years and it will take something special to win me over again. And no, I don't mean a hypertrophied iPhone iTablet iNetbook thingie. You hear that Steve?! Pissed off. Very.

[/end of rant]

u49aa2

Jun 11, 2009, 06:13 AM

Very disappointed, i am waiting for mine to be delivered, and from what i am hearing, i am not very optimistic!

When i receive mine i will report back :(

redcrow240

Jun 11, 2009, 07:37 AM

hey guys,

waiting to hear a little more feedback about the displays. Seems like its gonna be the same as rev B and just hope for the best when ordering (sucks). Sorry to hear about the three duds Scottsdale. I was thinking maybe you should order from amazon next time, I hear people have had alot of success from them. Im still gonna purchase an air cause im a sucker (lol), and because thats what i want in a notebook. Having the unibody already makes the new mbp seem a little difficult to buy without getting the portability of the air that i want.

I was gonna ask if maybe a petition to apple might help? We're not exactly hurting their profits by just going out and buying another apple computer (mbp 13). If anything they'll think people just didnt like the air (high return ratio) and just dump it down the road. Who knows, maybe they'll quietly issue a firmware update or something if we make enough noise.

Its odd to hear people complain and say that apple quality sucks and that they we deserve better, but then turn around and buy another one of their notebooks. Do you guys think they deserve you buying another one of their computers? Almost seems like we're being quietly driven towards the computer thats more cost effective to them. Apple has had plenty of time to fix the displays on the air, a problem that didnt even exist with the first version. As soon as the unibodys came out and they put the 9400 in there....

robeddie

Jun 11, 2009, 08:59 AM

Here's what I don't get:

If the line issue is as prevalent as it seems, and as many people have been returning their Air's as it would seem ...

1) Certainly Apple is aware of the problem

2) Certainly it is costing them money to have so many people opening up their boxes, looking at the computer and exchanging 1,2, even 3 times!

It's #2 that makes it so astonishing that they haven't fixed the problem. THIS HAS GOT TO BE COSTING THEM MONEY - and inconvenience.

drjsway

Jun 11, 2009, 09:54 AM

Lines have nothing to do with display model. I have a 9C90 with no lines and the model on display at my Apple store (rev B) has 9C8F with lines.

Veinticinco

Jun 11, 2009, 09:59 AM

Lines have nothing to do with display model. I have a 9C90 with no lines and the model on display at my Apple store (rev B) has 9C8F with lines.

:eek:

Are you absolutely 100% sure about that? It's just that may well be the first reported observation of an 9C8F with lines here on MR.

It's true that the lines are not model-specific although they did seem to plague the old low-end rev.B 9C90 more than the SSD 9C9As.

thejadedmonkey

Jun 11, 2009, 10:05 AM

aleksandra.

Jun 11, 2009, 10:08 AM

:eek:

Are you absolutely 100% sure about that? It's just that may well be the first reported observation of an 9C8F with lines here on MR.

It's true that the lines are not model-specific although they did seem to plague the old low-end rev.B 9C90 more than the SSD 9C9As.

I have a high-end rev B with 9C90 (and lines). There have been other mentions of both 9C90 in high-end and 9C8F in low-end. I don't know why people suddenly decided it's model-specific. My guess is that since 9C8F was apparently used in original Air (although I may be wrong about it), and high-end rev B became available a few weeks before the HDD version last year (BTW a great marketing move of Apple's, even if it was accidental), more of these might have gotten old screens, creating the impression that more expensive models get better displays, but this is pure speculation.

drjsway

Jun 11, 2009, 10:17 AM

:eek:

Are you absolutely 100% sure about that? It's just that may well be the first reported observation of an 9C8F with lines here on MR.

I went to the Apple store on Tuesday to see the Rev Cs. They didn't have it in stock yet, but they had a Rev B on display. The lines were faint, but still there. Checked the model, it was 9C8F.

I have had three MBAs:

Rev A, 1.6 HDD - 2/08 - 9C73 - no lines.
Rev B, 1.86 SDD - 10/08 - 9C9A - no lines - logic board failed after a four months and Apple replaced it with another...
Rev B, 1.86 SDD - 3/09 - 9C90 - no lines.

UPDATE: Just reverted back to default Apple profile (Color LCD) and saw very very faint lines. I went back to my calibrated settings (with 2.2 gamma) and lines were gone.

Apple's default profile is very washed out on all their computers, so that explains why lines are more noticeable. I can't check my first Rev B on the default profile (since I don't have it anymore), but my Rev A has no lines, even with default profile.

Everyone should change their gamma to 2.2 regardless. 1.8 is very outdated and I don't know why Apple still ships macs with it as default.

xpovos

Jun 11, 2009, 10:29 AM

Its odd to hear people complain and say that apple quality sucks and that they we deserve better, but then turn around and buy another one of their notebooks. Do you guys think they deserve you buying another one of their computers?

No, they don't deserve it, and you make a great point that I've thought about a lot before. The problem is, where else are you going to find a user experience as elegant and enjoyable as that provided by OS X on a Mac? OS X on a Hackintosh? No. Definitely not Windows in any flavor, and while Linux/FreeBSD/etc are great operating systems with which I've spent a lot of time, they can't touch OS X on ease of use for normal, everyday tasks. And while Gnome and KDE are both great graphical environments that keep improving, they still look like crap next to Aqua.

It's all OS X. Remove that OS quality from the user experience and Apple loses me and millions of others as customers overnight. But while it's there and doing what it does best, it's hard to not buy another Apple computer, because what are the alternatives?

PimpIntInxs

Jun 11, 2009, 10:46 AM

how do you change the gamma settings?

drjsway

Jun 11, 2009, 10:53 AM

how do you change the gamma settings?

I use a colorimeter to calibrate all my displays but you can change gamma through:

System Preferences -> Display -> Color -> Calibrate

drjsway

Jun 11, 2009, 11:00 AM

No, they don't deserve it, and you make a great point that I've thought about a lot before. The problem is, where else are you going to find a user experience as elegant and enjoyable as that provided by OS X on a Mac? OS X on a Hackintosh? No. Definitely not Windows in any flavor, and while Linux/FreeBSD/etc are great operating systems with which I've spent a lot of time, they can't touch OS X on ease of use for normal, everyday tasks. And while Gnome and KDE are both great graphical environments that keep improving, they still look like crap next to Aqua.

It's all OS X. Remove that OS quality from the user experience and Apple loses me and millions of others as customers overnight. But while it's there and doing what it does best, it's hard to not buy another Apple computer, because what are the alternatives?

OS X is great but Windows 7 isn't that bad. I would switch in a heartbeat if someone made a much sexier wintel machine but so far, no one has matched Apple in design.

If Dell had originally made the MacBook Air instead of Apple (I guess it would be called Dell Air), I would be a PC user already.

caonimadebi

Jun 11, 2009, 11:08 AM

I almost wish that I would have kept the second one. If number four has bad lines, I will buy a refurb 1.86/SSD for $1449. Many of those don't have the 9C90! I would take a 1.86/SSD with 9C8F over a 2.13/SSD for $1799 with lines.

If you need 2.13 GHz, go with the one you have. The first one I opened was completely terrible. The second was very faint only noticeable on white.

dood how much restocking fee have you forked over to apple for an obviously defective product??

entatlrg

Jun 11, 2009, 11:11 AM

UPDATE: Just reverted back to default Apple profile (Color LCD) and saw very very faint lines. I went back to my calibrated settings (with 2.2 gamma) and lines were gone.

I did the same thing and haven't followed everyone's comments about the lines since ...

When I got my MBA I noticed the washed out screen and faint lines as people mention here, so I went in and changed the settings until I have the clear / vibrant display I'm used to on a Mac ... since then no problems.

The Air Displays in the stores look horrible, but it's not a "Apple low quality/line issue" it's that they need to adjust their displays... that's it!

Maybe that will solve some people's problems with noticing lines on the screen?

Balthezor

Jun 11, 2009, 11:13 AM

I went to the Apple store on Tuesday to see the Rev Cs. They didn't have it in stock yet, but they had a Rev B on display. The lines were faint, but still there. Checked the model, it was 9C8F.

I have had three MBAs:

Rev A, 1.6 HDD - 2/08 - 9C73 - no lines.
Rev B, 1.86 SDD - 10/08 - 9C9A - no lines - logic board failed after a four months and Apple replaced it with another...
Rev B, 1.86 SDD - 3/09 - 9C90 - no lines.

UPDATE: Just reverted back to default Apple profile (Color LCD) and saw very very faint lines. I went back to my calibrated settings (with 2.2 gamma) and lines were gone.

Apple's default profile is very washed out on all their computers, so that explains why lines are more noticeable. I can't check my first Rev B on the default profile (since I don't have it anymore), but my Rev A has no lines, even with default profile.

Everyone should change their gamma to 2.2 regardless. 1.8 is very outdated and I don't know why Apple still ships macs with it as default.

This made me happy. Thank you drjsway. I'm gonna test this on the Apple store demos. If the line is barely noticeable, then I'm back with the Air.

Anyone else try this?

macinsomniac

Jun 11, 2009, 11:30 AM

If this whole line hysteria is really only an issue of calibration, then it is really unfortunate that so many decisions are being governed by it.

Scottsdale

Jun 11, 2009, 12:29 PM

Well, from everything I have read, I am convinced it is the flow of power to the display. I believe that Apple is so concerned about battery conservation that they may have limited the power that flows to the display below optimal needed for a perfect output for the user. I have read a lot about it, and in the last month seen plenty of rev B's with lines (mostly 9c90). I have seen one 9c9a with almost non-existent lines but terrible backlighting. I saw one 9c8f yesterday which looked as beautiful as I remembered my rev B (9c9a - perfect).

Going back to power possibilities makes me think. I have extremely limited electrical/power knowledge, so this may be a stupid question. Is it possible that the wires supplying power to the display are low-grade, improper gauge, connected improperly? We are dealing with what I assume is tiny current of power to the display. Could even poorly QC/engineering specs of the cable(s) alter this power enough to produce the lines. We know Apple loves inflating battery performance "facts." Apple may cut corners or know of a solution but that may destroy its Gold Star energy rating (whatever it's called)! It would not surprise me one bit if this is a simple firmware fix to tell the logic board to let more juice flow from battery through to display. If that is the case, we would probably not see an update/firmware fix until the new MBA becomes a previous generation.

I wonder if the calibration settings changes fix the lines often. I can easily see how the vast majority of MBA owners have no clue the lines are there to begin with. It is almost more like a resolution issue or a problem with the page browsing that might look off to someone who doesn't know these are lines. Also, spotting it takes a sharp eye that is used to looking at a high end display without lines. Place an MBA next to a 24" LED ACD, and the lines would jump off the display. The problem here too is that we are probably an extelremely small group of buyers who can see it, know it truly shouldn't be there, and are picky because doesn't really affect the experience most of the time. The second one had to have a white background, and really appeared as almost a resolution issue or faint perfectly lined up fingerprint lines as someone else stated.

I did read about someone who supposedly fixed the lines with calibration but when his friend pointed out the lines in seconds he realized his vision wasn't good enough to see it as it was extremely faint. For him, it was a fix! I think some of us perfectionist are looking to be upset if something is wrong, and we will go at lengths to find something wrong. I thought this was a minor problem for the first five months I heard about it, but I thought we all needed a perfect Air for this price. Now, I realize that it would be far too annoying to look at daily once one has observed the lines. Think of a dead pixel - one cannot usually see unless running through pixel checker. Yet once spotted, it's all the user sees!

I wonder if I will be able to try another MBA since this one is number three and doesn't work at all. The supervisor said I could return three with no stocking fee if had visible lines to one of three "Geniuses," so I think three will be unit four???

If not, I will return home empty handed, and I will go buy online... and hopefully get three more tries. I truly feel everyone else's pain with lines right now. I didn't understand the frustration until now, as I had owned a rev B w/SSD/1.86 with a stunning display. I cannot do the tests/review until next weekend anyways as he has family obligations this weekend. I will write that next Sunday and post in the MBA section reviewing new 2.13 MBA vs old 1.86 MBA vs new 2.26 13" MBP (with 2/4/6/8 GB RAM). I hope to truly decide for myself which Mac is right for me. But I also am going to try to help others identify which is right for them. I plan to test many apps to see what it takes to use more RAM than the MBA has. I also hope to show others that 8 GB is nearly never needed as 4 GB is a lot of RAM. Also hope to fully test and run down three battery cycles on each to learn true time depending on usage. Plan to fully analyze the displays. Hope to show the speed and comparison of base MBA vs MBP to see which is faster. Also plan to explain ALL of the solutions for making both better with multiple accessories. Want to provide insight into the trackpad, reflections of black bezel, and overall quality. May even do some Cool Book tests. Probably going to identify heat before and after replacing thermal paste.

So doing it for my own analysis and sharing with others as I enjoy writing/reporting like this. It's fun for me... LOL

In the meantime, the store opens in 35 minutes so will go work for number four. Will report after return from a client appointment in late afternoon.

To all you waiting on your MBA to be delivered today, remember the power of positive thinking. Godspeed! Let's hope there are 9c9a and 9c8f displays in most of the new one but some have been unlucky.

I will try calibration of the display too. And hopefully they will have new notebooks on display, so I can try it out on those too!

Veinticinco

Jun 11, 2009, 12:46 PM

If this whole line hysteria is really only an issue of calibration, then it is really unfortunate that so many decisions are being governed by it.
It's not. Believe me I tired calibrating a billion different ways, in the hope it would make the lines less noticeable. It's a hardware design fault/QC problem.

aleksandra.

Jun 11, 2009, 01:04 PM

Well, from everything I have read, I am convinced it is the flow of power to the display. (...)

I wonder if the calibration settings changes fix the lines often. (...)

My Air is rev. B with SSD and 9C90 display. I have lines. The display used to be horribly yellow, after the calibration, with no gamma change, lines were just as visible. I've created a few more profiles with different gamma and they seem to be faintest with 2.2, but they're still there. I don't think the problem lies here, it's only more or less obvious depending on color profile.

As to the power theory, I can say my Air always seemed to be getting relatively good battery life, even though Coconut Battery says battery health is 93-95% (depending on the weekday? weather? stars?). Today I've got 5:09, minus 10 minutes of display sleep, so lets say 5 hours, under light usage (web browsing via wifi, a few other apps, occasionally using iSight). The longest time ever was 5:20, I know I can always count on at least 4:30 of my normal work. If lines turn out to be the side-effect of this and there's a firmware update which would fix it but shorten battery life, I'd have a hard time deciding if I want it or not.

Scottsdale

Jun 11, 2009, 01:10 PM

My Air is rev. B with SSD and 9C90 display. I have lines. The display used to be horribly yellow, after the calibration, with no gamma change, lines were just as visible. I've created a few more profiles with different gamma and they seem to be faintest with 2.2, but they're still there. I don't think the problem lies here, it's only more or less obvious depending on color profile.

As to the power theory, I can say my Air always seemed to be getting relatively good battery life, even though Coconut Battery says battery health is 93-95% (depending on the weekday? weather? stars?). Today I've got 5:09, minus 10 minutes of display sleep, so lets say 5 hours, under light usage (web browsing via wifi, a few other apps, occasionally using iSight). The longest time ever was 5:20, I know I can always count on at least 4:30 of my normal work. If lines turn out to be the side-effect of this and there's a firmware update which would fix it but shorten battery life, I'd have a hard time deciding if I want it or not.

Wow, I never got more than 3:15 from my rev B. What is your secret?

Veinticinco

Jun 11, 2009, 01:17 PM

Wow, I never got more than 3:15 from my rev B. What is your secret?
Quite. 3 hours was about my average limit, even under mild to moderate web use.

aleksandra.

Jun 11, 2009, 01:38 PM

Wow, I never got more than 3:15 from my rev B. What is your secret?

I'm not sure I have a secret... I'm simply using it, though when on battery I don't usually run anything processor intensive, nothing heavier than one IDE or another (QtCreator, NetBeans, XCode...). Movies and games drain battery much faster, obviously. Also I'm using 802.11g usually, n would be more power-hungry. I suppose the real reason may be that while most people like their screen brightness high, I usually have to dim it so it doesn't burn my eyes. That may account for it... because I'm sure that whatever reason for lines, it can't make this sort of a difference.

Anyway, I don't think these times are really out of ordinary, it's what Apple reports on their website and most reviews confirmed ~4.5 hours under light usage. Maybe it's our definition of "light usage" that differs, as well?

twoodcc

Jun 11, 2009, 01:54 PM

sorry to hear about all your problems. hope you get one that works without problems

HLdan

Jun 11, 2009, 02:13 PM

To Scottsdale: I mean this wholeheartedly because I have been following your posts a lot, while informative they've also been a bit enjoyable but I have to be upfront with on this, stop the madness. You are becoming neurotic over this whole thing. Don't misunderstand me, the line issue is an issue and you're not at all off base but I think these endless exchanges and now you're considering buying somewhere else online for another set of endless exchanges. Let it go dude. Go buy a 13" MBP. It's a great computer with fantastic specs and you won't be going through this madness anymore. Is the MBA really worth all of this?? IMO, NOT AT ALL. That's why I got rid of mine and ordered the 13" MBP. :)

xpovos

Jun 11, 2009, 02:34 PM

It's not. Believe me I tired calibrating a billion different ways, in the hope it would make the lines less noticeable. It's a hardware design fault/QC problem.

Agreed. I tried many different custom calibrations. One or two succeeded in making the lines a little less noticeable, but they were definitely still there.

Veinticinco

Jun 11, 2009, 02:56 PM

Let it go dude. Go buy a 13" MBP. It's a great computer with fantastic specs and you won't be going through this madness anymore. Is the MBA really worth all of this?? IMO, NOT AT ALL. That's why I got rid of mine and ordered the 13" MBP. :)
I'm nowhere near as neurotic as Scottsdale, and so suggestion above is pretty much where I'm at.

However, I'm still hugely pissed off at Apple for royally effing up this screen issue with the MBA (never mind the paltry improvements I'd be too embarrassed to call an upgrade) that I feel like not giving the company a penny in protest. Makes me feel better at least, even if I do crack at some point.

What I want is basically the new 13" MBP guts in an MBA case. Going to be well into 2010 before that happens.

Giancarlo

Jun 11, 2009, 03:43 PM

Seriously, before I started reading this forum, I never noticed any lines... Even after I read so much, I still could not see them....

I originally had a Rev A and there were no lines.. Same for my second unit, a rev B... The moment I bought this 2.13, I finally started to see them..

I bought it yesterday and the screen was the 9C90... Today I exchanged it (none of the geniuses here knew what I was talking about), and I got the exactly same screen on the new one...

The gamma adjustment makes the whole screen much better, however I still see the lines somehow... But I really have to look, hard....

I believe in Scottsdale theory and really believe it must be an issue with power and/or interference...

This problem was reported way long time ago and since then Apple must have received thousands of returned Airs, and yet no solution has been found, therefore one must assume that, either they are ignoring it (I doubt it) or whatever solution they might have at hand, will indeed impact whatever design they implemented for powering the screen/video card.

Now it seems I am seeing lines every where... Even on my Imac...lol

halfmoonray

Jun 11, 2009, 03:48 PM

I just got my MBA SSD via online order and had to run home to check for lines.
It is a 9C90 and there are very faint lines. I was expecting worse but was surprised that they weren't as bad. I changed the calibration to 2.2 gamma and it did not make any noticeable difference. I installed a bunch of updates and when I came back after taking the dog out, I basically did not see them....I moved the computer around into different light and angles and I saw them again...almost as if they were dynamically coming and going, located at one place of the screen and then at another ....more here, less there...and I don't think it has to do with the viewing angle. This makes me think that it's definitely a power issue and possible electromagnetic radiation interference with a source emitter inside the computer. Overall, I'm happy....it's by far not the best display that I've seen but I think I lucked out with one with very faint lines. At one point, I had to strain my eyes to find the lines...I think this is pretty good....(also...the screen is not as bright/vivid even with it turned up all the way as I would like and the viewing angle is very narrow) Right now...I plan on keeping it. Will calibrate the screen using a colorimeter tomorrow.

ssindi

Jun 11, 2009, 03:57 PM

One in every how many MBA about are affected by this display issue? It sounds like so many, will someone give me an idea? I am in love with the MBA :(

xpovos

Jun 11, 2009, 04:01 PM

...either they are ignoring it (I doubt it)...

I don't doubt it at all. Normal Apple behavior. I would be extremely surprised if they were to ever admit this as an issue.

xpovos

Jun 11, 2009, 04:04 PM

One in every how many MBA about are affected by this display issue? It sounds like so many, will someone give me an idea? I am in love with the MBA :(

I don't think anyone can answer that question, but it seems to be extremely common, enough so that one's chances of getting a screen with lines are probably higher than the chances of getting one without.

ayeying

Jun 11, 2009, 04:06 PM

Okay, I just got my new MBA.. no lines, track button is quieter then my Rev A... i have no idea if I'm lucky or what.

Veinticinco

Jun 11, 2009, 04:42 PM

Okay, I just got my new MBA.. no lines, track button is quieter then my Rev A... i have no idea if I'm lucky or what.

Neither do we from that. Not being especially grumpy towards you, but it would help if when people post things like this they at least include some useful info that may help determine any pattern if one exists; e.g. spec, manufacture date and screen model. It only takes seconds to check the display model and the spec and manufacture date (just post first 4 digits of serial no.) are on the side of the box.

jrwmba

Jun 11, 2009, 04:48 PM

ayeying

Jun 11, 2009, 05:13 PM

Neither do we from that. Not being especially grumpy towards you, but it would help if when people post things like this they at least include some useful info that may help determine any pattern if one exists; e.g. spec, manufacture date and screen model. It only takes seconds to check the display model and the spec and manufacture date (just post first 4 digits of serial no.) are on the side of the box.

Spec: 2.13GHz/SSD Model
Model: 9C90
Serial: W8923

Scottsdale

Jun 11, 2009, 05:16 PM

Got my 2.13 rev C today. No lines out of the box and under multiple lighting conditions. Have not had it long enough to judge anything else carefully. Got very lucky. Apple was willing to accept my 1.86 rev B return even though I was outside the 14 day limit by 3 days. I had no idea a refresh was coming so fast. Monday was not a good day for me! Today - very good.

Well, what display do those of you with line-free MBAs have. Under system preferences - displays - color - profile - click on second to last line and it will show info about display.

9c90 is the bad display.

I now have my fourth MBA. It has been stuck on the "create your account" page for 15 minutes twice!

Giancarlo

Jun 11, 2009, 05:21 PM

I don't doubt it at all. Normal Apple behavior. I would be extremely surprised if they were to ever admit this as an issue.

Yes, but they also are very famous for changing things without a single word to anyone... i.e.. the screens on the previous macbooks...

They have not done a single thing about this issue and given that it is random and does not really apply solely to a specific panel, than one must assume Scottsadale theory could very well be valid.

ayeying

Jun 11, 2009, 05:24 PM

Well, what display do those of you with line-free MBAs have. Under system preferences - displays - color - profile - click on second to last line and it will show info about display.

9c90 is the bad display.

I now have my fourth MBA. It has been stuck on the "create your account" page for 15 minutes twice!

I have 9C90, line free. Compared with my Rev. A, looks exactly the same, even close up

entatlrg

Jun 11, 2009, 05:43 PM

\HLdan;Let it go dude. Go buy a 13" MBP. It's a great computer with fantastic specs and you won't be going through this madness anymore. Is the MBA really worth all of this?? IMO, NOT AT ALL. That's why I got rid of mine and ordered the 13" MBP. :)

Yes, I've been reading along here for quite some time too. Personally, I think adjusting the display settings removes the lines, even those here who claim they see lines admit it's a "tiny percentage of the people who will ever notice it" well then ... for the few who see lines, look at the text on the screen, don't focus on the background, I've never seen displays so nice as I have on Apple products .... anyway ... enough about the displays, I feel bad for those having troubles ...

On the power issue, what to buy MBA or 13" MBP it should be an easy decision, you either need the extra's of the MBP or you don't. People are bitching out Apple for doing what they do, I dunno, they have a business to run, we don't know 1% of the circumstances they buy or receive parts, it's not a simple as people make it sound, that's a fact. I'm in the product development, engineering, manufacturing field and if you ask me Apple has done an 'incredible, stand up, first class job'.

The 13" MBP is really intriguing, I can use the SD slot, the added power, improved screen, better battery etc so I ordered one. I'll use it along side my revB MBA and keep the one I like and sell the one I don't. Then I'll finally be doing ALL my work from one "main" computer, it'll make life easier and no doubt the 13" MBP hits the sweet spot there.

Scottsdale

Jun 11, 2009, 06:17 PM

This display is not perfect, but I think I can live with it. It's probably not quite as good as the second one. I knew I should have kept that.

I am seriously considering determining what type of cable is used from display to logic board. If ribbon cable, could use standard cables and jump across to see what the display looks like with potentially higher grade (awg) cables. But maybe it's absolutely impossible, as I don't really know what I am talking about. I haven't tore it open and looked at it.

I will say that with the 2.2 setting, it really looks good until I get close enough or see a grayish/brown/gold background which really sets it off (like the background on opening create your account page when starting for first time). I could see the lines instantly on all three before even getting to actual desktop. I knew with all three that I had 9C90 before getting to display. From having a 9C9A, it's obvious when I see a 9C90. So, I don't know if it's a power issue, why the 9C90 is so very obvious to me.

Anyways, I may try one more after waiting a few days to see if anyone gets a different display model. Or, I may return it and use a 13" MBP. But until I do the review, I don't see any way I would take that huge brick over this tiny Air. This thing still looks incredible with videos, darks look like a black hole, and angled views are great. The colors are amazing, BUT not nearly as nice as the 13" MBP! I do appreciate the silver bezel and no glass though.

Please keep me updated with all of the display models that you all get in your new MBAs. Also, best wishes in getting a line free display, like a few of you have reported.

macinsomniac

Jun 11, 2009, 06:18 PM

On the power issue, what to buy MBA or 13" MBP it should be an easy decision, you either need the extra's of the MBP or you don't. People are bitching out Apple for doing what they do, I dunno, they have a business to run, we don't know 1% of the circumstances they buy or receive parts, it's not a simple as people make it sound, that's a fact. I'm in the product development, engineering, manufacturing field and if you ask me Apple has done an 'incredible, stand up, first class job'.

The 13" MBP is really intriguing, I can use the SD slot, the added power, improved screen, better battery etc so I ordered one. I'll use it along side my revB MBA and keep the one I like and sell the one I don't. Then I'll finally be doing ALL my work from one "main" computer, it'll make life easier and no doubt the 13" MBP hits the sweet spot there.

I just pulled the trigger and bought a 2.13 Air. I was so on the fence, that I immediately questioned myself, asking if I made the right choice. Will the Air meet my needs? Will it be powerful enough? Will the screen have the quality of the 13" MBP?

Most likely, I am only second-guessing since I've repeatedly seen the Air not taken seriously by people on forums and blog comments. The 2.13 SSD Air will be far more powerful than my current iMac that is being auctioned now, and has comparable processor power to my work machine (at work), and faster memory. If the screen is high quality and without lines, then I see no reason why I would be disappointed. If for some reason, within two weeks, I find myself wanting more, then I will exchange it for a 13" MBP.

I am curious to hear about your experiences and comparison. What kind of software are you using for work?

Scottsdale

Jun 11, 2009, 06:19 PM

I have 9C90, line free. Compared with my Rev. A, looks exactly the same, even close up

Congratulations on your line free MBA!

Scottsdale

Jun 11, 2009, 06:22 PM

This made me happy. Thank you drjsway. I'm gonna test this on the Apple store demos. If the line is barely noticeable, then I'm back with the Air.

Anyone else try this?

I tried on the demo in the store I went to and the lines looked more obvious on white. However, on my new MBA, with 2.2 setting, the white looks pretty good... it's the beige/gold/gray color that has obvious lines.

macinsomniac

Jun 11, 2009, 06:23 PM

This thing still looks incredible with videos, darks look like a black hole, and angled views are great. The colors are amazing, BUT not nearly as nice as the 13" MBP! I do appreciate the silver bezel and no glass though.

:eek: Don't make me regret just ordering an Air! Does the 13" MBP have a better display for sure? If that is the case, I might have to make a return. I will not be doing too much graphic work on my laptop (most will be on external), but I still don't know if I should sacrifice display quality. :confused:

Scottsdale

Jun 11, 2009, 06:51 PM

:eek: Don't make me regret just ordering an Air! Does the 13" MBP have a better display for sure? If that is the case, I might have to make a return. I will not be doing too much graphic work on my laptop (most will be on external), but I still don't know if I should sacrifice display quality. :confused:

As far as color gamut, and being 100% line free, the 13" MBP has a gorgeous display. It looks EXACTLY like the display in the 15" MBP. At the same time, the viewing angle, blacks, and fact that it's not glassy MBA WINS the best looking display. One has to remember that there is basically no reflection problems on the MBA and it doesn't have the dreaded black glass bezel, so it really is easier on the eyes. I am not seeing the lines right now at all. If I put my eyes at they keyboard, I can see it on the beige/brown/gray area like around the text box here when typing. I cannot see it on white at all, which is extremely weird and I guess the 2.2 setting helps that. The lines are obvious on the beige/brown/gray areas of websites or like the Create your account page when starting MBA for first time.

I am still trying to determine how bad the lines are here. They seem to come and go... I AM ONE MILLION PERCENT SURE THIS IS A POWER RELATED ISSUE. From doing some more reading, and calling an electrical engineer I know at a client's office, I even hypothesize that this could be the shielding on the cables that run from logic board to display. I may try to test that, but it will require more knowledge and experience than I have... so I will have to depend on someone else to help.

I am not 100% sure that I will keep this MBA, as I plan to do a full review of the 13" MBP to see if the benefits outweigh (literally with the MBP) the lugging around of a brick compared to a notepad! I know it's 1.5 lbs, but it feels like triple the weight to lift the 13" MBP.

mhnajjar

Jun 11, 2009, 07:09 PM

Scottsdale, are you going for #5?

Didn't the store already put you on their black list? They usually get mad even though it is Apple's fault for this kind of low-quality screens.

Veinticinco

Jun 11, 2009, 07:22 PM

Spec: 2.13GHz/SSD Model
Model: 9C90
Serial: W8923

Thanks. Just noticed your sig - you're running a Snow Leopard beta on it? How's that looking?

Veinticinco

Jun 11, 2009, 07:25 PM

Scottsdale, are you going for #5?

Didn't the store already put you on their black list? They usually get mad even though it is Apple's fault for this kind of low-quality screens.

Think Scottsdale has to adopt this 'stealth' approach in his local Apple outlets...

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/6827/groucho20marx20glasses2.jpg

mhnajjar

Jun 11, 2009, 07:34 PM

Think Scottsdale has to adopt this 'stealth' approach in his local Apple outlets...

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/6827/groucho20marx20glasses2.jpg

This is so funny .... I never thought of it :D

ayeying

Jun 11, 2009, 07:55 PM

Thanks. Just noticed your sig - you're running a Snow Leopard beta on it? How's that looking?

It runs extremely well. So far, the only thing I've noticed is the fans can get a little trigger happy, but they slow down just as fast as they speed up

eVolcre

Jun 11, 2009, 07:57 PM

As far as color gamut, and being 100% line free, the 13" MBP has a gorgeous display. It looks EXACTLY like the display in the 15" MBP.

Am I the ONLY person on these forums who's seeing the difference in quality between the 13 and 15? I don't even know how to describe it but the 13" just did NOT seem as vibrant as the 15" screen. "Washed out" is the first thing I thought of. It was like looking at an iPhone screen naked or through a screen protector.

Seemed like whites seemed whiter on the 15", colors were popping more and it seemed more clear.

Oh well. I guess even if it is JUST me, perception becomes my reality and if I think the screen isn't as good - it will keep eating at me.

! I know it's 1.5 lbs, but it feels like triple the weight to lift the 13" MBP.

EXACTLY! If it seems that way to me, coming from a 6.6 pound 17", I don't think a MBA user will be happy with 'Junior' (MBP 13 :) ). I'll wait for your detailed review, you've got a lot of experience with the MBA, before making my decision. Speed up a bit, will ya! I head back overseas for another 2 years next week! No Applecare, no exchanges so it has to be a smart decision.
eV

entatlrg

Jun 11, 2009, 08:03 PM

I am not 100% sure that I will keep this MBA, as I plan to do a full review of the 13" MBP to see if the benefits outweigh (literally with the MBP) the lugging around of a brick compared to a notepad! I know it's 1.5 lbs, but it feels like triple the weight to lift the 13" MBP.

I think those comments should be taken with a grain of salt ............

I don't agree the 13" MBP feels like a "brick" compared to the MBA - NOT AT ALL !!

People, you are all best to make your OWN judgement about this, go to an Apple Store or Best Buy and pick both up, then you'll know for sure.

Regaj

Jun 11, 2009, 08:15 PM

Scottsdale, et al,

I stopped by the local Apple Store on the way home tonight and spent awhile playing with their display model MBA (a 1.86 model). It had the 9c90 display but try as I might, I couldn't see any lines. I went to the Google page; went to these forums; and a few other sites with very light backgrounds. I made sure the display brightness was turned all the way up. I looked at it from all kinds of angles. Dunno if my eyes simply aren't sensitized to what other folks are seeing, or if that display unit just simply happened to be a "good" one. But in any case I decided to take the chance.

"Got one of the 2.13 versions?" I asked.

They did.

I'm now home typing on it. And like that display model in the store, I can't see any lines, though I've tried mightily.

I'm new to the Air, but not to Macs. I've got a 15" UMBP which I use as my main computer (and an older MBP before that; and a PowerBook before that). I also have the 24" Cinema Display and do a lot of serious photography. I'm usually attuned to nuances of screen detail, color profiles, white balance, and the like. When I first started reading about all the line issues - and especially how pervasive that problem seems to be on the 9c90 displays - I figured there was little chance I'd end up with an Air.

I'm very happy to have been surprised. And - no surprise to you who have already used the Air - but this is a most astonishing form factor!

After 30 minutes I'm already in love.

Best of luck to you folks who are awaiting yours or are still on the fence...

macbook123

Jun 11, 2009, 09:17 PM

9c90 displays have lines. Like Apples taste sour-sweet. There's no 9c90 display without lines. At least I highly doubt it. They're hard to see, but if you've looked at a MBP screen for comparison, you'll notice that the MBA screens are washed out (in part of the lines). Of course I don't want to say 100% that yours has the lines, but it just doesn't make sense to me that it wouldn't.

Balthezor

Jun 11, 2009, 09:32 PM

I just got back from the Apple store as well and was playing with both the display models. Both had the 9c90 screen. The 1.86 model I think the lines were more visible than the 2.13. But really to me, its barely noticeable. I really have to focus my eyes on it. Now I feel like my Thinkpad has lines lol.

The 13" MBP is nice, but damn the screen is so shiny, I really hate that. I turned on the Sims 3 demo and a black screen came up while the game loaded, and the screen is practically a mirror. So no black backgrounds for sure.

To me I think I'll live with the lines than the shiny gloss. I'm still unsure what to buy for med school, I got til August to decide.

So right now, I'm still torn between the MBA and MBP, both have their pros and cons. That 7 hour battery is tasty. If I do get the MBA, I will exchange it until I get one with the faintest lines or hope that I get lucky.

Going to Baltimore this weekend, I'll check the Apple store at Towson, and see if its any different.

steve31

Jun 11, 2009, 10:23 PM

Went to the local Apple store here in Edmonton to check there screens. All were 9c90 and I could not see any lines. I am waiting for my 2.13 to arrive. If it is the same as the ones in the store...then I will be happy. They were much better than the Uni MB I sold. Also they looked better than the 13 inch Uni MBP that were in the store.

h1d

Jun 12, 2009, 05:06 AM

One in every how many MBA about are affected by this display issue? It sounds like so many, will someone give me an idea? I am in love with the MBA :(

It would be hard to tell by just the posts in here, because there could be only 0.01% of people having problem and all we see could be them, but there have been various reports (including myself) seeing the defected models displayed at Apple Stores themselves and other local electronics stores, meaning, there could be a decent amount of them with lines.

Also, about the display problem suggested as power flow related, has anyone tried playing with CoolBook with various settings (possibly at the lowest possible juice given to CPU just before kernel panics) and see if any difference is made? Obviously this is a super amature guessing, but, if anyone has a chance, why not try it on either rev B or C...

eVolcre

Jun 12, 2009, 01:19 PM

Any update Scottsdale?

Cheers,

eV

sherthang

Jun 12, 2009, 03:39 PM

If this is in fact a problem with power, does this lead to other possible problems that may emerge?

drjsway

Jun 13, 2009, 02:28 PM

More evidence that 1.8 gamma is outdated and everyone should use 2.2 regardless of lines.

From the Apple's Snow Leopard page:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/refinements/enhancements-refinements.html

Gamma 2.2.
The default gamma has been changed from 1.8 to 2.2 to better serve the color needs of digital content producers and consumers.

Scottsdale

Jun 13, 2009, 02:49 PM

stoconnell

Jun 13, 2009, 04:45 PM

It's not. Believe me I tired calibrating a billion different ways, in the hope it would make the lines less noticeable. It's a hardware design fault/QC problem.

I concur. I have Rev B SSD with faint lines (9c90), and I have fiddled (admittedly not going nutty) with both default and 2.2 gamma and both exhibit the behavior. I do much prefer the 2.2 setting, and I really do like everything else about the MBA that I have chosen to try and ignore it (refocus my eyes). It is really a funny thing as it does really only seem to happen under certain lighting conditions (at least with mine).

I am disappointed that the new models are exhibiting this as well; however, I am not terribly surprised. I think some folks were being overly exuberant to believe it would be corrected. It really does suck as this issue more than any others (lowish screen resolution and fixed 2GB of RAM -- might just be that to double the number of chips on the mobo would draw too much power/dissipate too much heat or cost too much for their margins :rolleyes: ) mars an otherwise fantastic computer.