iPhone 3G S Has a 600 MHz Processor, 256MB of RAM, PowerVR SGX

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/10/iphone-3g-s-has-a-600-mhz-processor-256mb-of-ram-powervr-sgx/)

T-Mobile.nl has posted (http://www.t-mobile.nl/iphone/specificaties.html?WT.ac=sc_iphone2_specs) some technical specs about the iPhone 3G S revealing that the newest iPhone carries a 600 MHz processor and 256MB of RAM.

600 MHz is notably faster than the current iPhone and iPod Touch which runs (http://toucharcade.com/2008/11/23/2nd-generation-ipod-touch-faster-than-iphone/) at 412 MHz and 532 MHz, respectively. Until now, the 2nd Generation iPod Touch has been the fastest device in the lineup by a good margin. Meanwhile, the previous generation models where also limited to 128 MB of RAM, so the new device offers twice as much which could be a welcome change to developers. The processor/ram information seems to confirm (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/05/11/chinese-forum-poster-claims-next-generation-iphone-details/) many details that were first revealed in a Chinese forum post.

Apple has been particularly unrevealing about the detailed hardware specs for the new iPhone even to developers at WWDC. The new iPhone is also believed (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/06/09/iphone_3g_s_to_use_powervr_sgx_gpu_core_for_opengl_es_2_0.html) to use the new PowerVR SGX graphics processing unit which provides support for OpenGL ES 2.0. This notably improved performance may require developers to support these multiple device capabilities within their apps.

For those interested in more of a technical analysis, Anandtech offers (http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3579&p=1) a detailed breakdown of the new iPhone's processor and GPU, according to their sources. The information lines up with the other reports referenced above. Although unannounced, the iPhone 3GS uses (again) a Samsung SoC but this time instead of the ARM11 + MBX-Lite combo it’s got a Cortex A8 and PowerVR SGX; just like the Pre.


Article Link: iPhone 3G S Has a 600 MHz Processor, 256MB of RAM, PowerVR SGX (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/06/10/iphone-3g-s-has-a-600-mhz-processor-256mb-of-ram-powervr-sgx/)

[ricosuave]

This new iPhone is faster than my original Mac Plus!:eek:

[Consultant]

Original iPhone and original iPhone 3g have a processor around 600mhz. It's clocked down for battery life.

[Ross123]

Should make for some smoother scrolling around heavy 2.0 websites!

[Hattig]

Original iPhone and original iPhone 3g have a processor around 600mhz. It's clocked down.

True. And the new iPhone has an 866MHz processor, but clocked down (according to the Anandtech article / Samsung SoC block diagram).

iPhone 3GS only has SGX520 though, not SGX530 like the Pre.

http://www.design-reuse.com/news/19570/opengl-es-2-0-core.html

[chelsel]

is it OpenCL compatible :-)

[soren054]

True. And the new iPhone has an 866MHz processor, but clocked down (according to the Anandtech article / Samsung SoC block diagram).

iPhone 3GS only has SGX520 though, not SGX530 like the Pre.

http://www.design-reuse.com/news/19570/opengl-es-2-0-core.html

is there any "unclocking" software fix for the 2G or 3G iphone on cydia? Just wondering...

[Hattig]

is it OpenCL compatible :-)

I don't think so, you'd need SGX543 for that, which has the enhanced shader cores. However the wikipedia page for PowerVR says that there is an unknown licensee for this core for a 70MPoly/s version (the 520 is 7MPoly) - could that be Apple, for PASemi?

You still have NEON and enhanced FPU with the Cortex A8 though.

[The Monkey]

what are the specs for the first gen phone?

[syklee26]

is the iPhone going to make my dream come true and become the legendary Powerbook G5?

[Drumjim85]

what are the specs for the first gen phone?

it says in the article. 412MHz and 128MB ram. The 3G didn't get a spec bump there.

[QCassidy352]

600 MHz is notably faster than the current iPhone and iPod Touch which runs (http://toucharcade.com/2008/11/23/2nd-generation-ipod-touch-faster-than-iphone/) at 412 MHz and 532 MHz, respectively. Until now, the 2nd Generation iPod Touch has been the fastest device in the lineup by a good margin.

I would assume, though, that the ipod touch uses an faster-clocked version of the previous iphone processor. So the actual speed difference between the new iphone processor and the 2G ipod touch processor would be considerably more than if the new iphone used the same processor but clocked 68 mhz higher, right?

[dr_lha]

This new iPhone is faster than my original Mac Plus!:eek:
The old iPhone is massively more powerful than a Mac Plus (which had a 8Mhz 68000), let alone the new one.

[QCassidy352]

The old iPhone is massively more powerful than a Mac Plus (which had a 8Mhz 68000), let alone the new one.

I'm curious how it stacks up next to my first computer, a 400 mhz, 256 RAM imac G3. It certainly has a higher capacity! (13 GB HD) :)

[BornAgainMac]

It would be nice to have it as a computer someday too. For example, you can go home and place it in a Dock that is hooked up to a multi-touch screen and keyboard / mouse. Maybe in 5 years it can happen and be good enough for most like how laptops are replacing desktops today (Unheard of 10 years ago).

[BRLawyer]

It would be nice to have it as a computer someday too. For example, you can go home and place it in a Dock that is hooked up to a multi-touch screen and keyboard / mouse. Maybe in 5 years it can happen and be good enough for most like how laptops are replacing desktops today (Unheard of 10 years ago).

What about the PowerBook Duo and the DuoDock? ;) This happened MORE than 10 years ago...

http://www.apple-history.com/?page=gallery&model=duodock

[wilycoder]

This sucks.

iPhone 3g chip supports OpenGL ES 1.1.

New iPhone supports OpenGL ES 2.0.

This will require developers of 3d apps to write 2 versions of their app.

It will fracture the app store.

Sigh.

[DipDog3]

Yea, just saw this.

Once again I am glad I waited another year for this upgrade instead of getting the 3G!


Can't wait till the 19th!

[kas23]

Hmmmm. Which model are developers going to develop for, the 3G or 3Gs? It seems to me if they optimize for the 3Gs, this is going to leave millions of people with slow or crashy apps, which is something that will not be good for the developer. Or, are they going to cater to the lowest common denominator?

Yea, just saw this.

Once again I am glad I waited another year for this upgrade instead of getting the 3G!


Can't wait till the 19th!

This is probably what I'll be saying in 12 months about the 3Gs. :-)

[QCassidy352]

Hmmmm. Which model are developers going to develop for, the 3G or 3Gs? It seems to me if they optimize for the 3Gs, this is going to leave millions of people with slow or crashy apps, which is something that will not be good for the developer. Or, are they going to cater to the lowest common denominator?

I think at first you'll see development for both, but as the 3GS gains marketshare, devs will target it more and more. When a 3G ipod touch comes out with similar hardware in a few months we'll see even more apps that can't run on the older hardware. It amazes me that people have been calling this an minor update for the past two days.

[kas23]

This sucks.

iPhone 3g chip supports OpenGL ES 1.1.

New iPhone supports OpenGL ES 2.0.

This will require developers of 3d apps to write 2 versions of their app.

It will fracture the app store.

Sigh.

Maybe this is what Apple is trying to force? To sell more new units?

I think at first you'll see development for both, but as the 3GS gains marketshare, devs will target it more and more. When a 3G ipod touch comes out with similar hardware in a few months we'll see even more apps that can't run on the older hardware. It amazes me that people have been calling this an minor update for the past two days.

The problem is that there are 13+ million 3G iPhones out there. Do you really think the 3Gs is going to overtake this marketshare? My guess is never.

[Zweben]

This new iPhone is faster than my original Mac Plus!:eek:

Forget Mac Plus, the new iPhone is as fast as the iBook G3 I used to have, and that was introduced in 2001!

[mobilehavoc]

I think all they did was turn up the speed on the current iPhone CPU to 600mhz (last I remember the current iPhone 3G CPU is rated at 600mhz but Apple runs it at 412mhz) and add 128MB of RAM.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it. They wouldn't change the CPU/3D chipset because it'd fracture the AppStore and be a nightmare for developers.

[chrmjenkins]

This sucks.

iPhone 3g chip supports OpenGL ES 1.1.

New iPhone supports OpenGL ES 2.0.

This will require developers of 3d apps to write 2 versions of their app.

It will fracture the app store.

Sigh.

It had to happen eventually.

True. And the new iPhone has an 866MHz processor, but clocked down (according to the Anandtech article / Samsung SoC block diagram).

iPhone 3GS only has SGX520 though, not SGX530 like the Pre.

http://www.design-reuse.com/news/19570/opengl-es-2-0-core.html

The Cortex (LP) is intended to run at 600 MHZ nominal. I don't know where your 866 MHZ comes from. Also, the author is postulating that it uses the SGX 520, we have no confirmation there.

I think all they did was turn up the speed on the current iPhone CPU to 600mhz (last I remember the current iPhone 3G CPU is rated at 600mhz but Apple runs it at 412mhz) and add 128MB of RAM.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it. They wouldn't change the CPU/3D chipset because it'd fracture the AppStore and be a nightmare for developers.

There's no way you can guarantee a 2x performance increase with less than a 1.5x clock speed increase. It's a different processor for sure.

[kdarling]

Original iPhone and original iPhone 3g have a processor around 600mhz. It's clocked down for battery life.

This is not an verifiable fact, and is actually unlikely.

The "600 Mhz" number came from reading the optional manufacturing techniques for chips like the one Apple used.

It does NOT mean their chip is rated that high, which requires testing at that speed, and more cost. Apple had no reason to pay extra for something they didn't intend to use. They would be smart to pay less for chips that only passed at the required speed.

[Hattig]

I'm curious how it stacks up next to my first computer, a 400 mhz, 256 RAM imac G3. It certainly has a higher capacity! (13 GB HD) :)

Well the G3 is probably more powerful on a clock-for-clock basis than even the ARM Cortex A8. On the other hand the latter has NEON which is similar to Altivec, so maybe we should be comparing with an early G4. I would say that at 600MHz the 3GS has more computational power than a 400MHz G3, but I wouldn't bet more than $20!

The RAM is the same, but faster on the 3GS.

The graphics are likely better on the 3GS as well, what did your iMac have - Rage128 graphics? Yeah, the PowerVR SGX520 should be beating that.

[lord patton]

Do you really think the 3Gs is going to overtake this marketshare? My guess is never.

That's a pretty ****** guess.

Seriously, if not this year, certainly next.

[/dev/toaster]

This is actually really bad news for anyone with a 1st or 2nd generation iPhone. That means that developers will be pushing the limits on their apps to the point that anyone with the older phone is ****ed, unless they want to pay AT&T $250 to break their contract.

For this, I am not looking forward to how many applications I won't be able to run with 3.0.

[iphones4evry1]

I hope this means it will enable developers to create a whole new level of better Apps.
Look how much better i.TV is now with the newest version. I hope more Apps become high tech like that.

[QCassidy352]

I think all they did was turn up the speed on the current iPhone CPU to 600mhz (last I remember the current iPhone 3G CPU is rated at 600mhz but Apple runs it at 412mhz) and add 128MB of RAM.

I'm pretty sure the article says it's the ARM Cortex, which is a whole new processor.

Well the G3 is probably more powerful on a clock-for-clock basis than even the ARM Cortex A8. On the other hand the latter has NEON which is similar to Altivec, so maybe we should be comparing with an early G4. I would say that at 600MHz the 3GS has more computational power than a 400MHz G3, but I wouldn't bet more than $20!

The RAM is the same, but faster on the 3GS.

The graphics are likely better on the 3GS as well, what did your iMac have - Rage128 graphics? Yeah, the PowerVR SGX520 should be beating that.

Thanks - that made my day. :)

This is actually really bad news for anyone with a 1st or 2nd generation iPhone. That means that developers will be pushing the limits on their apps to the point that anyone with the older phone is ****ed, unless they want to pay AT&T $250 to break their contract.

But as kas23 points out, there's a huge installed base of users with the older hardware. What did they say during the keynote - something like 20 million devices (iphone and ipod touch) running the iphone OS? So even as the 3GS gains traction and the new ipod touch comes out, that would be a lot of users for developers to neglect.

So while I agree with you that you'll see more and more apps that won't run on the 3G (and other older hardware), I think the great majority of apps will, at least for quite some time. 20 million users is just too much of an audience to ignore, at least until a very large number of 3GS iphones and 3G ipod touches have been sold.

[casmith07]

I'm really excited for the future of this model over the next year or so.

[lord patton]

This is actually really bad news for anyone with a 1st or 2nd generation iPhone. That means that developers will be pushing the limits on their apps to the point that anyone with the older phone is ****ed, unless they want to pay AT&T $250 to break their contract.

For this, I am not looking forward to how many applications I won't be able to run with 3.0.

As others have said, this is inevitable. On what time frame, and in which manner, do you suggest Apple improve the horsepower of the iPhone?

I bet they would have bumped the specs a little last year, but didn't want to complicate things for the nascent developer community. But you have to go forward sometime.

[fr0]

The old iPhone is massively more powerful than a Mac Plus (which had a 8Mhz 68000), let alone the new one.

I believe the Newton was also more powerful with the Arm 610 running at a blazing 20MHz. Amazing how far things have come.

[DELLsFan]

This new iPhone is faster than my original Mac Plus!:eek:

Think about it. The iPhone is more powerful than some computers were 10 years ago! ... Hell, maybe even 5 years ago! :eek:

[nagromme]

FWIW, DaringFireball seemed to think that the new Cortex processor would be much faster than the previous iDevices--out of proportion with mere clock rate.

This is actually really bad news for anyone with a 1st or 2nd generation iPhone. That means that developers will be pushing the limits on their apps to the point that anyone with the older phone is ****ed, unless they want to pay AT&T $250 to break their contract.

For this, I am not looking forward to how many applications I won't be able to run with 3.0.

Technology marches on. Things improve. But I disagree with your dire conclusion--I think things will be just fine for a long time for the 40 million users of "older" iPhones/iPod Touches.

Looking at non-games:

* New, demanding apps won't flood out THAT quickly. Your contract may be long over before you notice any widespread issue, if ever.

* If an app NEEDS extra speed then it could never have been done on our older devices anyway.

* If it merely benefits from speed, then that's great--it will still run our old devices, just slower, naturally.

* How many mobile apps are that speed dependent anyway? Most are not doing massive calculating, or are offloading the heavy math to a server (like Shazam). The speed makes everything snappier, but it seldom makes something possible vs. impossible.

* 40 million users is not a market to turn your back on. And the 3G is still going to be selling in mass numbers at $99, so the 40 million will keep growing. How long before the number of 3GS's is higher than the number of everyone else? A long time. But even a 40+ million user "minority" will still be worth selling apps to for a long time after that.

And looking at games, which push a computer's power to the limit:

* Desktop games have long offered different detail/quality levels to run well on different speeds of hardware. iPhone games can do the same, or turn their back on 40+ million customers. (Or, more likely, developers will target ONLY the older devices.)

* Eventually, certain games will push the limit in fundamental ways that could never have been done on our older devices. The existence of the 3GS is not the problem--our devices were NEVER going to play those particular kinds games (which will be the minority anyway) so we haven't lost anything.

I really don't agree that "anyone with the older phone is ****ed," and I'm very glad to see the platform moving forward.

[twoodcc]

glad to see this. i bet the ram really helps out with the video recording, editing.

[Michael CM1]

This sucks.

iPhone 3g chip supports OpenGL ES 1.1.

New iPhone supports OpenGL ES 2.0.

This will require developers of 3d apps to write 2 versions of their app.

It will fracture the app store.

Sigh.

Well, guess they should stop selling The Sims 3 and World of Warcraft since they won't work with every Mac ever sold.

[iSee]

This sucks.

iPhone 3g chip supports OpenGL ES 1.1.

New iPhone supports OpenGL ES 2.0.

This will require developers of 3d apps to write 2 versions of their app.

It will fracture the app store.

Sigh.

The alternative is to not improve, which is worse.

Also, I'm pretty sure (correct me if I'm wrong) the newer GPU continues to support ES 1.1, so app writers have the choice to support all devices with one code base.

[PlaceofDis]

this is the reason i will be upgrading from my first gen. the new features of the 3G were nice, but the performance boost will be the most noticeable change of all on the newest model.

[BG-Mac]

Still on the fence about whether or not to upgrade from my current 3G. Knowing me I'll end up biting the bullet and paying the $499.. :(

[nagromme]

Still on the fence about whether or not to upgrade from my current 3G. Knowing me I'll end up biting the bullet and paying the $499.. :(

My thinking: if I get a 3GS now, it will be very hard to justify getting a 2010 iPhone. By waiting, not only do I avoid paying a contract penalty, I get a much better iPhone :)

[chrmjenkins]

My thinking: if I get a 3GS now, it will be very hard to justify getting a 2010 iPhone. By waiting, not only do I avoid paying a contract penalty, I get a much better iPhone :)

Personally, I think a 2010 iphone would be an aesthetic upgrade only. The guts won't change (but a 2011 iphone should have a cortex A9). I wouldn't mind a hardware/aesthetics alternating cycle, as that's what it seems to be. For instance, I could have lived with the first gen iphone while the 3G was out (I'd only miss the nav really), but the silicon geek in me is screaming YOU NEED THIS PHONE.

[jhsfosho]

I don't think this is a big enough of a performance boost to warrant the upgrade for most current iphone users. Only the 1st gen iphone users or people that are just getting an iphone for the first time will be getting an iphone 3gS. And maybe some die hard apple fans or developers.

[TheOrioles33]

Still on the fence about whether or not to upgrade from my current 3G. Knowing me I'll end up biting the bullet and paying the $499.. :(

If you can afford it, just do it man. Why wait? I ordered 1 for me and 1 for my wife. I have the 3G and she has my 1st gen hand-me-down. Cant wait!! If we sat around always "waiting until next year" nothing would ever get done in the world. :D

[casmith07]

My thinking: if I get a 3GS now, it will be very hard to justify getting a 2010 iPhone. By waiting, not only do I avoid paying a contract penalty, I get a much better iPhone :)

This is my thinking in porting over from VZW. The iPhone, to me, has finally reached a point with the hardware that incremental updates each year would not really justify a new purchase, FOR ME personally. Same reason I really have yet to update my MacBook Pro from 2007.

[kiranmk2]

Anyone know what video this iphone will decode? 720p? 1080p? Obviously pointless on an HVGA screen, but the same chips inside a new AppleTV or an AppleTV app for the iphone and accompanying HDMI-output dock could be intreguing

[diamond.g]

So the SGX, puts the iPhones 3Gs at what, Xbox 1 level of graphics? Maybe even Wii level?

[nagromme]

Personally, I think a 2010 iphone would be an aesthetic upgrade only. The guts won't change (but a 2011 iphone should have a cortex A9). I wouldn't mind a hardware/aesthetics alternating cycle, as that's what it seems to be. For instance, I could have lived with the first gen iphone while the 3G was out (I'd only miss the nav really), but the silicon geek in me is screaming YOU NEED THIS PHONE.

The processor may not advance next year--who knows--but knowing Apple, something else will, not just shape/appearance. Battery life? Front-facing camera? Camera flash? WiFi N? And the change I want most: 64 GB? And Apple's apparently at work on its OWN chips for... something!

Meanwhile, the silicon geek in me likes the frosted side!

If you can afford it, just do it man. Why wait? I ordered 1 for me and 1 for my wife. I have the 3G and she has my 1st gen hand-me-down. Cant wait!! If we sat around always "waiting until next year" nothing would ever get done in the world. :D

But if we control our compulsion to consume just HALF the time, we'll still get the same things done... at half the cost :) I seek a happy medium. Every other upgrade* is my plan (just like I do with Adobe software and iLife).

* Unless my iPhone app (don't ask, it doesn't even exist yet :o ) makes money, and then I could decide that my old phone PAID for my new one. And, you know... I'd need it for testing, right? Yeah, that sounds good!

[chrmjenkins]

Anyone know what video this iphone will decode? 720p? 1080p? Obviously pointless on an HVGA screen, but the same chips inside a new AppleTV or an AppleTV app for the iphone and accompanying HDMI-output dock could be intreguing

The chipset is capable of 720p. This is the same as what the TI OMAP 3430 claims.

[wilycoder]

The alternative is to not improve, which is worse.

Also, I'm pretty sure (correct me if I'm wrong) the newer GPU continues to support ES 1.1, so app writers have the choice to support all devices with one code base.

So app writers like myself will have 3 options:

write code in ES 1.1 and not take advantage of ES 2.0 features. lame.

write dual render paths for ES 1.1 and ES 2.0. lame.

write ES 2.0 code and tell ES 1.1 phones to get lost. also lame.

there will need to be some mechanism in the app store to determine which apps can run on which phones. do they already have this mechanism for the edge and 3g phones? i'm pretty sure that every single app on the store right now can run on any iphone currently shipping...

[grapemac]

I've been having a good think about this. I'll have to see the 3GS in action before i assume anything about the speed (but the speed of my 3G does irritate me a lot sometimes) and see if it's as fast as i hope it is.

The 3GS (and 3.0) is pretty much the phone i want. The only thing still missing from my wish list would be draft-n (by the time the next model is released, n will be fully approved). And so i'm finding it difficult trying to convince myself to wait until the 2010 model to upgrade. PLUS by waiting until 2010, i may as well have went for a 24 month contract originally as opposed to 18 month and got my 3G for free.

For those none-too-happy with the way the contracts/prices are working out, my advice would be to not think about it until your current contract nears the end of its term - there's nothing you can do about it anyway. In 6 months - or however long until you're due an upgrade - have a look to see what rumours are flying around for the next model. Do they sound like something you would like to have? Do they justify waiting another 6 months before you upgrade, being without the magnetometer, voice control, better graphics, certain apps, extra speed and video? Plus it's likely the current prices will be lowered and, maybe if people complain enough (as they currently are), tariff prices may be lowered also. This may all turn out for the best in the end.

[shiseiryu1]

I remember my Dell Axim x30 had a 624MHz processor and 128 RAM...I probably bought that thing almost 5 years ago. I'm assuming that the iPhone 600MHz processor is more efficient and all that jazz but I'm surprised it took this long to reach that speed.

[nagromme]

So app writers like myself will have 3 options:

write code in ES 1.1 and not take advantage of ES 2.0 features. lame.

write dual render paths for ES 1.1 and ES 2.0. lame.

write ES 2.0 code and tell ES 1.1 phones to get lost. also lame.

So, what's the alternative you think Apple should offer? If an app supporting both is lame, and supporting only one is lame too, then what would you prefer?

Writing for both sounds great to me! If (as an iPhone developer) I CHOOSE to use the new capabilities, then I may have to do some additional work--that just seems like common sense to me. (And the Unity engine will probably help me keep that work to a minimum.)

there will need to be some mechanism in the app store to determine which apps can run on which phones. do they already have this mechanism for the edge and 3g phones? i'm pretty sure that every single app on the store right now can run on any iphone currently shipping...

There already is such a mechanism in the store. Certain (rare) games say they won't run on the original Touch, for instance (the slowest iDevice).

I remember my Dell Axim x30 had a 624MHz processor and 128 RAM...I probably bought that thing almost 5 years ago. I'm assuming that the iPhone 600MHz processor is more efficient and all that jazz but I'm surprised it took this long to reach that speed.

MHz is not much of a measure of processor speed, contrary to popular myth. It's only really useful in comparing two processors of the same type. MHz is like saying the number of cylinders determines a car's speed. At best it's related, in a complex way.

The iPhone 3GS is light years ahead of 2004 Dell hardware. (The Dell Axim didn't get that much battery life either--and then imagine the battery use if it wasn't just a PDA and had to make phone calls and play 3D games! Battery life and processor speed are unavoidably tied together.)

[nagromme]

Double-post. Sorry!

[wilycoder]

There already is such a mechanism in the store. Certain (rare) games say they won't run on the original Touch, for instance (the slowest iDevice).



This answers all of my concerns, thanks. I would expect Apple to have a similar mechanism for ES 2.0 apps.

[iMacDragon]

I remember my Dell Axim x30 had a 624MHz processor and 128 RAM...I probably bought that thing almost 5 years ago. I'm assuming that the iPhone 600MHz processor is more efficient and all that jazz but I'm surprised it took this long to reach that speed.

Different architecture, and battery life, would be the main reasons.

[diamond.g]

This answers all of my concerns, thanks. I would expect Apple to have a similar mechanism for ES 2.0 apps.

So, what's the alternative you think Apple should offer? If an app supporting both is lame, and supporting only one is lame too, then what would you prefer?

Writing for both sounds great to me! If (as an iPhone developer) I CHOOSE to use the new capabilities, then I may have to do some additional work--that just seems like common sense to me. (And the Unity engine will probably help me keep that work to a minimum.)



There already is such a mechanism in the store. Certain (rare) games say they won't run on the original Touch, for instance (the slowest iDevice).


What I don't get is the iPhones and the 1st gen Touch have cpu's which are within 12 Mhz of one another. How can a game run on one, but not the other?

[Jimmy James]

Very nice!

I was going to buy a 3G a few months ago but I was in no rush. I suspected that a June chip upgrade of this magnitude was a near-inveitability and now I'm ready to pull the trigger.

[kas23]

It had to happen eventually.


But, doesn't this mean that the App Store is going to be "fractured" again every single year? There is always going to be newer, better technology coming out each year. What happens next year when an even better CPU/RAM iPhones comes out (unless Apple is planning to only change CPU/RAM amounts every 2 years, like they did with the original and 3G).

[slffl]

This is awesome, I can't wait. Recently I've been choosing the apps I use during my downtime based on how fast they load. This will make choosing a lot easier :)

[Airforcekid]

Same specs as my iMac G3 in 10 years 3.06GHZ duo Core phones with 4GB of ram?

[chrmjenkins]

But, doesn't this mean that the App Store is going to be "fractured" again every single year? There is always going to be newer, better technology coming out each year. What happens next year when an even better CPU/RAM iPhones comes out (unless Apple is planning to only change CPU/RAM amounts every 2 years, like they did with the original and 3G).

That's my prediction, every 2 years. I imagine developers will always accommodate the older architectures since that maximizes revenue. The technology moves quickly in the mobile world, and Apple has to strike a balance to stay on top of that. I think 2 years works (esp since that's contract length in US).

[kas23]

Seriously, if not this year, certainly next.

Why would the 3Gs overtake the 3G next year? There will be an even newer iPhone by then. But, if you mean next years iPhone overtaking the 3G, then yes, it will. There will be potentially 13+ million iPhones coming off contract next year.

[andrew0122]

The problem is that there are 13+ million 3G iPhones out there. Do you really think the 3Gs is going to overtake this marketshare? My guess is never.

Honestly the speed and double the ram are a HUGE selling point, but for people like myself who purchased the original iPhone limited to 8gb the option for 32gb has to be the biggest selling point for me. (I'm currently converting all of my music to Apple Lossless and would really like the larger capacity) Not to mention HSDPA 7.2 (AT&T willing. Not really happy with them right now) . . . That'd be a wonderful upgrade from EDGE.

The torrent for 3.0 has been leaked. . . I really like it. :D

[smileyborg]

Whoa, just got an email from Apple about the new iPhone. Was very surprised to see this at the bottom:

*Requires new two-year AT&T wireless service contract, sold separately to qualified customers; credit check required; must be 18 or older. For non-qualified customers, including existing AT&T customers who want to upgrade from another phone or replace an iPhone 3G, the price with a new two-year agreement is $499 (8GB), $599 (16GB), or $699 (32GB). Visit www.wireless.att.com for eligibility information. In CA, MA, and RI, sales tax is collected on the unbundled price of iPhone.

Since when is there an 8GB iPhone 3G S offered??!

[HiRez]

I don't think it's an either/or proposition because it's still Objective-C, Cocoa Touch, and OpenGL, the OpenGL part will just be more advanced. I assume in many cases you'll still be able to run new games on the old hardware, they'll just run slower, maybe use lower poly count models, and won't have the effects be as flashy (more primitive lighting and flat shading instead of pixel shaders). Basically the same way games cope win different video cards on desktop and laptop machines. And most non-gaming apps shouldn't be affected. I don't think it's going to fracture the App Store because they aren't changing the fundamental architecture.

[winterspan]

Original iPhone and original iPhone 3g have a processor around 600mhz. It's clocked down for battery life.


You guys, the processors are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. The only thing they have in common is that they are variants of ARM.

The new iPhone 3GS processor core is a 600mhz Cortex-A8 (ARMv7) which has a completely different architecture than the older iPhone 3G/Touch's 412Mhz ARM11.

The Cortex-A8 core is a major upgrade --- dual-issue, superscalar, with L2 cache and real SIMD engine. It is roughly 2X AS FAST per clock as ARM11. So even though it is "only" 600Mhz, it has the processing power of a 1200Mhz ARM11.

In essence, the new iPhone 3GS has nearly three times the raw processing power of the older iPhone 3G.


@Macrumors

You should really update this article to reflect the fact that the processors are very different.. This is not just a speed bump!

[chrmjenkins]

Whoa, just got an email from Apple about the new iPhone. Was very surprised to see this at the bottom:

*Requires new two-year AT&T wireless service contract, sold separately to qualified customers; credit check required; must be 18 or older. For non-qualified customers, including existing AT&T customers who want to upgrade from another phone or replace an iPhone 3G, the price with a new two-year agreement is $499 (8GB), $599 (16GB), or $699 (32GB). Visit www.wireless.att.com for eligibility information. In CA, MA, and RI, sales tax is collected on the unbundled price of iPhone.

Since when is there an 8GB iPhone 3G S offered??!

That's the 8GB 3G that will continue to be offered.

[jamesryanbell]

You guys, the processors are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. The only thing they have in common is that they are variants of ARM.

The new iPhone 3GS processor core is a 600mhz Cortex-A8 (ARMv7) which has a completely different architecture than the older iPhone 3G/Touch's 412Mhz ARM11.

The Cortex-A8 core is a major upgrade --- dual-issue, superscalar, with L2 cache and real SIMD engine. It is roughly 2X AS FAST per clock as ARM11. So even though it is "only" 600Mhz, it has the processing power of a 1200Mhz ARM11.

In essence, the new iPhone 3GS has nearly three times the raw processing power of the older iPhone 3G.


@Macrumors

You should really update this article to reflect the fact that the processors are very different.. This is not just a speed bump!

My thoughts exactly.

[applecultvictim]

The biggest and most important issue is what the speed of the flash in the iphone is, this is going to be a MAJOR issue on the responsiveness of the phone and how well it copes up with accumulated data. The bottleneck is most often than not, not the cpu.

[Pressure]

Whoa, just got an email from Apple about the new iPhone. Was very surprised to see this at the bottom:

*Requires new two-year AT&T wireless service contract, sold separately to qualified customers; credit check required; must be 18 or older. For non-qualified customers, including existing AT&T customers who want to upgrade from another phone or replace an iPhone 3G, the price with a new two-year agreement is $499 (8GB), $599 (16GB), or $699 (32GB). Visit www.wireless.att.com for eligibility information. In CA, MA, and RI, sales tax is collected on the unbundled price of iPhone.

Since when is there an 8GB iPhone 3G S offered??!

There isn't. That is the iPhone 3G 8GB model that is selling along with the iPhone 3Gs.

[chrmjenkins]

There's no reason to type in letters like that. That's more likely to make people miss your point because they're annoyed. All part data will be revealed in the ifixit teardown.

[greenpaz]

I don't understand how battery life is improved for every other aspect of the iPhone -- except for 3G talk time and Internet use?

[mobilehavoc]

I don't buy this BS...show me a tear down guide of the 3GS that clearly identifies the CPU as a ARM Cortex-A8 and I'll believe you. Until then I still believe all they are doing is upclocking the CPU to 600mhz.

[NT1440]

I don't buy this BS...show me a tear down guide of the 3GS that clearly identifies the CPU as a ARM Cortex-A8 and I'll believe you. Until then I still believe all they are doing is upclocking the CPU to 600mhz.

So you won't believe anything with evidence to back it up, but stick to your own idea that has NOTHING to back it up. :rolleyes:

Logical.

[chrmjenkins]

I don't buy this BS...show me a tear down guide of the 3GS that clearly identifies the CPU as a ARM Cortex-A8 and I'll believe you. Until then I still believe all they are doing is upclocking the CPU to 600mhz.

How do you account for the performance jump they claim (2x) with a simple ~1.5x overclock?

[iMacDragon]

I don't understand how battery life is improved for every other aspect of the iPhone -- except for 3G talk time and Internet use?

Because the 3g radio is the biggest drain on battery after screen probably, and unlikely to be much different to previous gen in power usage, so that extra efficiency elsewhere has less effect in comparison when 3g is active.

[Duncan-Idaho]

I don't care about a processor.

Apple has no excuses, the new iPhone should have:

- a front-facing 12 MP camera that records video in 1080p.
- a 16:9 1920×1080 OLED screen that generates a miniature Jesus hologram that can perform miracles at my will
- a different external design so I look cooler than everybody with the 3G
- It needs to be as thick as a quarter
- The back case must be made of ivory from baby elephant tusk and have a glowing apple logo

If my demands are not met I will bitch and whine all over these forums. Oh wait...

[chrmjenkins]

I don't care about a processor.

Apple has no excuses, the new iPhone should have:

- a front-facing 12 MP camera that records video in 1080p.
- a 16:9 1920×1080 OLED screen that generates a miniature Jesus hologram that can perform miracles at my will
- a different external design so I look cooler than everybody with the 3G
- It needs to be as thick as a quarter
- The back case must be made of ivory from baby elephant tusk and have a glowing apple logo

If my demands are not met I will bitch and whine all over these forums. Oh wait...

Learn your place ghola.

[iMacDragon]

How do you account for the performance jump they claim (2x) with a simple ~1.5x overclock?

exactly, and they also show that javascript benchmark runs in 15 seconds on 3GS vs 43 seconds on 3g with 3.0, that's more than just a 1.5x clock speed increase could explain, it HAS to be a new CPU too.

[NoExpectations]

Should I buy now or wait? Let's see what we get with the 3Gs (by the way, a stupid name).....

Faster processor.....current 3G is fast enough for most Apps....and OS 3.0 will make it even faster.

Video....A 'toy' that you will grow tired of.

Digital Compass.....I'm not a hiker.

Voice Control....Might be nice.


Any rumors on the 2010 iPhone? :)

[MacLover4491]

yeah i dont believe it too. Apple would have said something if the cpu is so much better but they didnt mentioned much anything about the cpu on the wwdc.

[eme jota ce]

Previously uncertain as to whether I was will to pay the $399 to upgrade from my 3G to the 3Gs. We have two 3Gs and will upgrade 1 of 2 on the 19th, then see if it's worth upgrading the other.

Several other features were intriguing: better camera, video, and Nike+ capability. However, the mere promise of 2 times faster was not convincing. The specs posted in this rumor look good for my current use and for new apps.

Hope it arrives on the 19th, transferring my number and setting from the old phone to new is easy, and the pictures are really better.

[davidbrummy]

Learn your place ghola.


lol.

You forgot it must have no contract and be free.

[Duncan-Idaho]

yeah i dont believe it too. Apple would have said something if the cpu is so much better but they didnt mentioned much anything about the cpu on the wwdc.

Read this and don't procreate until you do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

Actually alot of people in this thread should read it.

[wizard]

This new iPhone is faster than my original Mac Plus!:eek:

In fact I'd have to say my current iPhone is faster than just about half the computer I've ever owned. Faster than my Vic20, my Heath/Zenith Z100, my Mac Plus, and a couple of Intel machines that have come my way over the years. In any event easily half.

Amazing isn't it!


dave

[kugino]

my 2G 16GB is soooo slow and laggy that i'm excited about any speed increase...nice to know that hardware's been improved significantly

[iMacDragon]

yeah i dont believe it too. Apple would have said something if the cpu is so much better but they didnt mentioned much anything about the cpu on the wwdc.

They did. they said the iphone is on average 2x as fast, at times upto 3x as fast.

They've never gone into the technical details of CPU and RAM for iphone/ipods, especially in keynotes, let alone on website.

[applecultvictim]

Again, that's what everybody is missing!!!

The biggest and most important issue is what the speed of the flash in the iphone is, this is going to be a MAJOR issue on the responsiveness of the phone and how well it copes up with accumulated data. The bottleneck is most often than not, not the cpu.

[andiwm2003]

Learn your place ghola.

LOL

best response to the best post:D

[winterspan]

I don't buy this BS...show me a tear down guide of the 3GS that clearly identifies the CPU as a ARM Cortex-A8 and I'll believe you. Until then I still believe all they are doing is upclocking the CPU to 600mhz.

Tear-down will obviously not be done until it's out.. The evidence is pretty clear cut.

1) It's the logical upgrade path - I've never heard of a chip using an ARM11 core +PowerVR SGX

2) Anandtech.com says they have sources close to the production of the chip and it's Cortex-A8

3) Apple's own benchmarks show 1.5-2.5X faster performance on real-world applications, and the javascript benchmark is 3x faster. There is no way this performance could come from a 412-600mhz jump on the ARM11. Scaling in real-world applications is nowhere near perfect, and even it was Apple's own examples show greater than a 50% increase in performance.


yeah i dont believe it too. Apple would have said something if the cpu is so much better but they didnt mentioned much anything about the cpu on the wwdc.

Unlike with the Macs, Apple never mentions low-level hardware specs in iPhone/IPod presentations. But they did focus a lot of energy showing how much faster the new iPhone is --- even NAMING it the 3GS for "speed"!

As they said in the Q&A, they want to focus on real-world benefits, not specifications.

[W1LLk]

glad to see this. i bet the ram really helps out with the video recording, editing.

I was thinking about that too, which raises my next question: have they said anything about video record length or quality? Is it like newer digital cameras where you can essentially keep recording until the disc is full? Perhaps you are limited to RAM space? Someone mentioned the chip was capable of 720P, I hope you have the option to go smaller for longer movies and youtube.

So app writers like myself will have 3 options:

write code in ES 1.1 and not take advantage of ES 2.0 features. lame.

This depends on what kind of app you're writing, many apps in the store don't even utilize everything ES 1.1 is capable of, so in this case: unaffected. Only apps with high development or GPU requirements will need ES 2.0 features.

write dual render paths for ES 1.1 and ES 2.0. lame.

Not really, see above... If your goal is a graphics intensive game, your market share is for the highest gen available, other wise, stick to ES 1.1. Sure there will be ES 2.0 only apps, but will all of them need to be built in ES 2.0? For some of them, the answer may be yes.

write ES 2.0 code and tell ES 1.1 phones to get lost. also lame.

It's GPU evolution, but look how long PS2 stuff came out after the PS3 hit. (who care though right? you know we all play the 360).

there will need to be some mechanism in the app store to determine which apps can run on which phones. do they already have this mechanism for the edge and 3g phones? i'm pretty sure that every single app on the store right now can run on any iphone currently shipping...

I thought they were already doing this to differentiate between the iPhone and the iPod Touch.

Different architecture, and battery life, would be the main reasons.

Yup, remember about 5-7 years ago when the boys over there in the microchip plants kept making that number go higher beyond actual capabilities? There was a 4Ghz milestone if I remember correctly, then they realized the AMD boys (right?) were beating them in benchmarks with like 1.5 Ghz chips, because the numbers weren't correlating to architecture, real flops, and all that jazz...

You guys, the processors are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. The only thing they have in common is that they are variants of ARM.

The new iPhone 3GS processor core is a 600mhz Cortex-A8 (ARMv7) which has a completely different architecture than the older iPhone 3G/Touch's 412Mhz ARM11.

The Cortex-A8 core is a major upgrade --- dual-issue, superscalar, with L2 cache and real SIMD engine. It is roughly 2X AS FAST per clock as ARM11. So even though it is "only" 600Mhz, it has the processing power of a 1200Mhz ARM11.

In essence, the new iPhone 3GS has nearly three times the raw processing power of the older iPhone 3G.

EXACTLY. I had that Dell Axiom too, and my 1st gen iPhone spanks that puppy. Those old PDA's were groggy.

[wizard]

Should I buy now or wait? Let's see what we get with the 3Gs (by the way, a stupid name).....

Faster processor.....current 3G is fast enough for most Apps....and OS 3.0 will make it even faster.

My current 3G is not fast enough by a long shot. Thus it remains to be seen if OS 3.0 improves things enough. In fact i don't know of many people that consider their iPhone to be fast enough.


Video....A 'toy' that you will grow tired of.

That remains to be seen. For somethings it works out really well. would you watch Star Wars or Saving Private Ryan on an iPhone and truly enjoy it, probably not. However things like podcasts or the WWDC feeds work out nicely.


Digital Compass.....I'm not a hiker.

It is not for hikers! You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of its use.


Voice Control....Might be nice.

Could be. I'm more happy to hear about voice recording.



Any rumors on the 2010 iPhone? :)

Yeah. #1 is that it will be better than this model.

Dave


PS

I'm not going to jump in and buy right now either. That mostly because I like to see how early adopters make out and that I also want to see how 3.0 works on my 3G. I could see the draw of iPhone 3GS though, especially if incoming reports are really good.

Dave

[scalf9]

In fact I'd have to say my current iPhone is faster than just about half the computer I've ever owned. Faster than my Vic20, my Heath/Zenith Z100, my Mac Plus, and a couple of Intel machines that have come my way over the years. In any event easily half.

Amazing isn't it!


dave

Sorry for the digression, but 'Vic20' brought back some memories! Chariots was possibly the most boring game in computer history...! Oh, and I think the 3G S will be great - honestly.

[W1LLk]

Paranthetically...

I was also assuming the ES 1.1 architecture is compatible on the 3GS, but the ES 2.0 is NOT compatible with 1st Gen and 3G iPhones. Am I correct in saying that?

[lowonthe456]

The alternative is to not improve, which is worse.

Also, I'm pretty sure (correct me if I'm wrong) the newer GPU continues to support ES 1.1, so app writers have the choice to support all devices with one code base.

it IS backwards capatible to 1.1, yes

[Brien]

That's a pretty ****** guess.

Seriously, if not this year, certainly next.

I don't think so. The cheapest model will probably sell the most, and that's still a 3G.

[wizard]

This sucks.

iPhone 3g chip supports OpenGL ES 1.1.

New iPhone supports OpenGL ES 2.0.

This will require developers of 3d apps to write 2 versions of their app.

It will fracture the app store.

Sigh.


You have not idea what you are talking about. All apps written for OpenGL ES 1.1 are upwardly compatible with the iPhone 3GS. That is not a big problem especially when few programs are heavily using OpenGL ES 2.0.

Future apps that target iPhone 3GS are just that iPhone 3GS programs. that doesn't lead to any fracture at all it is rather progress. Without progress there is stagnation which is more or less death for a computing product.

As to developers writing multiple versions of their programs that is up to them. It is however not required. It isn't even required that they support older generations of hardware, like computer many platforms will eventually fade away due to legacy performance.

Dave

[wizard]

The Cortex (LP) is intended to run at 600 MHZ nominal. I don't know where your 866 MHZ comes from. Also, the author is postulating that it uses the SGX 520, we have no confirmation there.

Actually I thought I saw some marketing literature one time indicating the higher clock rate for the Cortex A8. Could be confusion on my part but I do believe that it is possible to run Cortex faster. the problem of course is it likely depends on whose manufacturing lines the the core is produced on.

You are right on about the SGX 520. In fact nothing has been cast in stone here, all we have is speed leaks, there is no solid engineering data that I can find yet.


There's no way you can guarantee a 2x performance increase with less than a 1.5x clock speed increase. It's a different processor for sure.

Different yes. Cortex based I'm still wondering.

Hopefully the real data will soon ooze out of Apple headquarters.

Dave

[mdriftmeyer]

Again, that's what everybody is missing!!!

The bottle neck is the bus width combined with the CPU's cache structure, then the CPU limitations.

[Brien]

Whoa, just got an email from Apple about the new iPhone. Was very surprised to see this at the bottom:

*Requires new two-year AT&T wireless service contract, sold separately to qualified customers; credit check required; must be 18 or older. For non-qualified customers, including existing AT&T customers who want to upgrade from another phone or replace an iPhone 3G, the price with a new two-year agreement is $499 (8GB), $599 (16GB), or $699 (32GB). Visit www.wireless.att.com for eligibility information. In CA, MA, and RI, sales tax is collected on the unbundled price of iPhone.

Since when is there an 8GB iPhone 3G S offered??!

More disturbing is that in my state they collect tax on the unsubsidized price of the phone. For the 32GB, that's gotta be at least $50.

[chrmjenkins]

Actually I thought I saw some marketing literature one time indicating the higher clock rate for the Cortex A8. Could be confusion on my part but I do believe that it is possible to run Cortex faster. the problem of course is it likely depends on whose manufacturing lines the the core is produced on.

The LP cortex A8 core can hit 925 MHZ with a little over-volting. Electromigration becomes an issue though. The GP core they advertise is capable of 1GHZ+, but it is not intended for applications that require very low standby power.


You are right on about the SGX 520. In fact nothing has been cast in stone here, all we have is speed leaks, there is no solid engineering data that I can find yet.

If it were anyone else but Apple, I'd say sure, it must be the SGX core that Samsung's SoC uses. However, there's nothing stopping Apple from getting a custom SoC to fit their needs, so it could be SGX 520, 530, or 535.


Different yes. Cortex based I'm still wondering.

Hopefully the real data will soon ooze out of Apple headquarters.

Dave

It's the most logical as it provides a decent upgrade path for Apple. It also helps them stay relevant in terms of capabilities.

[wizard]

So app writers like myself will have 3 options:

write code in ES 1.1 and not take advantage of ES 2.0 features. lame.

If it works for your app why not?


write dual render paths for ES 1.1 and ES 2.0. lame.

Yes very lame, not sure why you even thought about it.


write ES 2.0 code and tell ES 1.1 phones to get lost. also lame.

Certainly makes sense for apps that need it. Lets face it if you have an ES 2.0 app that really leverages that tech it won't run well on the older generation devices anyways. Your argument makes no sense what ever.

there will need to be some mechanism in the app store to determine which apps can run on which phones. do they already have this mechanism for the edge and 3g phones? i'm pretty sure that every single app on the store right now can run on any iphone currently shipping...

App store has lots of problems, I'm sure they will eventually find a way to address this.

Look there is little sense in getting all negatively wrapped up in what is clearly an improvement. Note too, the move to ES 2.0 on the iPhone 3GS is just a start, expect all iPod devices to support it in the future.


Dave

[nagromme]

What I don't get is the iPhones and the 1st gen Touch have cpu's which are within 12 Mhz of one another. How can a game run on one, but not the other?

Those (very few) games probably could indeed run on a Touch 1G, but for whatever reason (frames per second? simple mistake? user reports of sluggishness turning to low ratings?) the developer has decided not to sell them for the 1G. I can't comment on the details of their decision (or whether MHz alone is the only difference) but the mechanism is there to specify certain models, which means the store system is already prepared for 3G vs. 3GS issues.

[ditzy]

Mobile phones are sounding more like computers these days. The computers in my local learn direct have similar specifications to this.

[senorfrog97]

iPhone 3GS only has SGX520 though, not SGX530 like the Pre.



seriously?

[Hattig]

I believe the Newton was also more powerful with the Arm 610 running at a blazing 20MHz. Amazing how far things have come.

Totally, the ARM 610 was far faster per clock than the 68000 and probably the 68020/30. It was a truly amazing design for the time.

[spencecb]

Haven't read through this thread, so forgive me if this has already been answered, but does anyone know if the new innards on the iPhone 3G S can support the frequency that T-Mobile uses for 3G in the US?

Like I said, forgive me if someone has posted on this already. I'm at work and haven't had the time to read through it all.

[Hattig]

So the SGX, puts the iPhones 3Gs at what, Xbox 1 level of graphics? Maybe even Wii level?

I'd say it was XBox360 level graphics, in terms of technical ability, but neutered to around 1/100th of the capability (in terms of physical resources and clock speed reduction). It's a full shader based system, unified shader too I believe so you run vertex and pixel calculations through it.

The Wii's graphics are archaic to be honest. Some of the games are still great fun though.

[dunpool]

XCode now supports armv7 (Cortex A8) and apparently also universal binaries for iPhone.

[fef714]

I wonder if the iPod touch that will be inevitably released this Fall will feature similar speed upgrades.

[MikeTheC]

This new iPhone is faster than my original Mac Plus!:eek:
+1

You took the words right out of my mouth, good sir. :)

[BongoBanger]

Sounds good - can't wait to see the teardown!

[chrmjenkins]

I wonder if the iPod touch that will be inevitably released this Fall will feature similar speed upgrades.

Yeah, I'm sure they held to their typical Fall schedule because they don't want these babies flying off the shelves in the BTS promotion.

[iMacDragon]

I wonder if the iPod touch that will be inevitably released this Fall will feature similar speed upgrades.

I'd be shocked if it didn't.

[Hattig]

seriously?

That's what the reports are saying.

Doesn't mean that Apple aren't running the 520 at 200MHz, whilst the Pre could be running its 530 at 100MHz, for equivalent capability.

Considering how reasonable the MBX at 66MHz (speculated) in the previous iPhones works, and this is potentially 2-4x as powerful, nobody actually need be worrying!

[kas23]

My current 3G is not fast enough by a long shot. Thus it remains to be seen if OS 3.0 improves things enough. In fact i don't know of many people that consider their iPhone to be fast enough.


Not fast enough for what? Watching movies? Writing your thesis on? Remember, it's just a cellphone. I certainly don't expect to heavy, fast computing power out of a cellphone.

[fef714]

Yeah, I'm sure they held to their typical Fall schedule because they don't want these babies flying off the shelves in the BTS promotion.

Last year the 2nd gen iPod touches were out during the last couple weeks of the BTS promo, but the new iPods were not part of it, so if you used the promo you could get either the original iPod touch or the fat iPod nano.

[fef714]

Not fast enough for what? Watching movies? Writing your thesis on? Remember, it's just a cellphone. I certainly don't expect to heavy, fast computing power out of a cellphone.

I have used iPhones that have a little trouble with cover flow, COVER FLOW!!!! Yes, I am referring thing you use in the music app. It is native, it can't be explained by a slow internet connection or wi-fi problems, it is simply a slow processor. I will take the 3G S with open arms.

Although you have to understand that I have several thousand songs, but still.

[applecultvictim]

The bottle neck is the bus width combined with the CPU's cache structure, then the CPU limitations.

And where's your proof of that judge reinhold?

[akm3]

I don't care about a processor.

Apple has no excuses, the new iPhone should have:

- a front-facing 12 MP camera that records video in 1080p.
- a 16:9 1920×1080 OLED screen that generates a miniature Jesus hologram that can perform miracles at my will
- a different external design so I look cooler than everybody with the 3G
- It needs to be as thick as a quarter
- The back case must be made of ivory from baby elephant tusk and have a glowing apple logo

If my demands are not met I will bitch and whine all over these forums. Oh wait...

You forgot Bluray. And you also forgot Poland.

[casmith07]

I have used iPhones that have a little trouble with cover flow, COVER FLOW!!!! Yes, I am referring thing you use in the music app. It is native, it can't be explained by a slow internet connection or wi-fi problems, it is simply a slow processor. I will take the 3G S with open arms.

Although you have to understand that I have several thousand songs, but still.

easy solution, don't use coverflow. use playlists.

[Justinf79]

I don't understand how battery life is improved for every other aspect of the iPhone -- except for 3G talk time and Internet use?

Not sure, but maybe it's because of the software not being efficient enough in that area yet.

[spencecb]

+1

You took the words right out of my mouth, good sir. :)

And just 67 MHz slower than my first PowerBook G4!! Crazy how small everything can be now!!!!

[Eddyisgreat]

Unfortunately the original 3g zelots will try anything possible to throw fact and reason out the window since the 3g [s], clearly, is just a "3g iphone with a compass and video".

Change is good. People can't expect a two year old device to run ABSOLUTELY everything that's available today. 3G owners, well, maybe, but if Apple didn't bump up the specs of the 3g (did they?) than its about time for a real refresh, hence the new specs.

[AtlasBoy]

This sucks.

iPhone 3g chip supports OpenGL ES 1.1.

New iPhone supports OpenGL ES 2.0.

This will require developers of 3d apps to write 2 versions of their app.

It will fracture the app store.

Sigh.

That was bound to happen - it always happens as technology advances. Developers will need to put a "requires 3Gs or OS 3.0" on their apps. This would happen without the difference in OpenCl. Dev's will be writing for the new compass, voice commands, higher Ram and Processor, dock access, etc. The App store can stay as is, you'll just need to check the system requirements before you buy. I'm guessing Apple will add search functions to look for apps that fit your iPhone.

[hefeglass]

http://i.gizmodo.com/5286263/will-future-iphone-games-run-on-my-iphone-3g?skyline=true&s=i

here ya go...

[igazza]

so the iphone 3Gs has more power (same as pre) and a better battery life but no background apps:rolleyes:

[AtlasBoy]

Haven't read through this thread, so forgive me if this has already been answered, but does anyone know if the new innards on the iPhone 3G S can support the frequency that T-Mobile uses for 3G in the US?

Like I said, forgive me if someone has posted on this already. I'm at work and haven't had the time to read through it all.

I don't know what Tmoble uses, but here are the specs for the 3Gs.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html

[Ricanlegend]

Why is everybody saying $500, The easiest way people with iphone 3g to upgrade cheaper is cancel your contract thats $175 get the new one that $199 all that add to $374, isnt it easy , you save $126 :D

[iPhoneNYC]

I like to drive fast - "Breathless"

[mobilehavoc]

How do you account for the performance jump they claim (2x) with a simple ~1.5x overclock?

They could be comparing iPhone 3G running OS 2.x to iPhone 3GS running OS 3.0 is possible.

OS 3.0 has significant improvements to Safari and other components...add that to the overclock and it's very possible to get to 2x. Also these are benchmarks from APPLE not a 3rd party. I know OS 3.0 is much faster because I've been using it since beta 2.

I'm not saying that it doesn't have the Arm Cortex8, just that I don't believe it until they find out form a tear down or running a system level command/utility to prove it.

Everything out there is based on "sources" or "rumors" and while they may end up being true in the end. The fact of the matter is, nobody knows for sure right?

So until we do know for sure, I'm entitled to my theory that it's the same CPU upclocked to 600mhz combined with twice as much RAM (apps can be cached more aggressively) and OS 3.0. :D

[nagromme]

so the iphone 3Gs has more power (same as pre) and a better battery life but no background apps:rolleyes:

"Background apps" are a great buzzword, but the iPhone DOES have a well-designed way to switch from app to app. Instead of leaving an app running when you're no longer interacting with it, it "pauses" the app (in whatever state, at the discretion of the developer) and then switches pretty quickly to another app--which is much like multitasking only with fewer resources. Need background notifications? Push does it better, faster, and with less battery/RAM usage. Meanwhile, certain key functions like alarm clocks, phone calls and music playback DO multitask on iPhone.

And thus, the iPhone doesn't face the problems of the Pre's background apps:

* They bog each other down (check the Pre reviews).

* You have to manually manage what's running, instead of just "doing what you want."

* They burn battery life.


The iPhone doesn't have "true" multitasking, but nor is it a conventional single-tasking UI. You can think of the Home button as an app switcher instead of Quit--in fact, I'm sure many people have never considered the question either way. They jump from app to app knowing simply that "it works."

Really, "true" multitasking has three main advantages:

1. An app can get work done (3D rendering, video compression, whatever) while you do other things. But that kind of heavy math work is done on a full computer, not a handheld.

2. You can be notified of incoming communications. iPhone OS 3.0 does this--BETTER than true multitasking, in fact.

3. You can switch between apps more quickly. I'll grant you that--but the iPhone (3GS especially) still switches pretty fast, and apps that load slowly are the ones that hog resources and wouldn't multitask well anyway (like some games). So I don't feel this slightly-faster-app-switching outweighs all the negatives of multitasking. (And this is NO advantage unless switching to an app you'd already been running. But I for one don't switch between the same 4-5 apps all the time, I switch among TONS of apps--games mainly--and multitasking won't help there. First launch is still first launch. Not a problem on the Pre with only 18 apps of course :p )

I'd love to have "real" multitasking as an option on the iPhone, but in reality it wouldn't be useful so much as it would be a nice buzzword. I'm content with the "fake" multitasking and all its benefits. It's a good solution to problems the Pre hasn't solved.

[onehoop]

Read this and don't procreate until you do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

Actually alot of people in this thread should read it.

Heh, lawyers!

::grin::

M@

[dragossh]

"Background apps" are a great buzzword, but the iPhone DOES have a well-designed way to switch from app to app.

Tell that to my Flickr uploader, to my IRC client, to my Ustream viewer and to my IM app.

[NT1440]

They could be comparing iPhone 3G running OS 2.x to iPhone 3GS running OS 3.0 is possible.

OS 3.0 has significant improvements to Safari and other components...add that to the overclock and it's very possible to get to 2x. Also these are benchmarks from APPLE not a 3rd party. I know OS 3.0 is much faster because I've been using it since beta 2.

I'm not saying that it doesn't have the Arm Cortex8, just that I don't believe it until they find out form a tear down or running a system level command/utility to prove it.

Everything out there is based on "sources" or "rumors" and while they may end up being true in the end. The fact of the matter is, nobody knows for sure right?

So until we do know for sure, I'm entitled to my theory that it's the same CPU upclocked to 600mhz combined with twice as much RAM (apps can be cached more aggressively) and OS 3.0. :D

Did you watch the keynote at all? There were benchmarks against the 3G, not the original iphone.

[nagromme]

Tell that to my Flickr uploader, to my IRC client, to my Ustream viewer and to my IM app.

With iPhone OS 3.0, your photo uploading or video-watching won't stop you getting your IMs and IRC messages. Push notification will deliver them instantly--and without the battery/RAM waste of running communication apps in the background. (You will, of course, need an app update that supports these 3.0 features. Like the update AIM is now testing.)

Also (since we're comparing to Pre)--what's the best IRC client, AIM client, Flickr uploader and Ustream viewer for Pre? Is there much selection to choose from? ;)

[mobilehavoc]

Did you watch the keynote at all? There were benchmarks against the 3G, not the original iphone.

Read my post again, you misread it.

[NT1440]

Read my post again, you misread it.

Sorry, I meant they benchmarked against the 3G running 2.2.1 AND 3.0. The new hardware provides significant speed increases.

[mobilehavoc]

With iPhone OS 3.0, your photo uploading or video-watching won't stop you getting your IMs and IRC messages. Push notification will deliver them instantly--and without the battery/RAM waste of running communication apps in the background. (You will, of course, need an app update that supports these 3.0 features. Like the update AIM is now testing.)

Also (since we're comparing to Pre)--what's the best IRC client, AIM client, Flickr uploader and Ustream viewer for Pre? Is there much selection to choose from? ;)

It sucks btw. So you're uploading a photo or watching a video...you get pushed an AIM notification...blam big popup obstructs your view and you either close or view. If you close, you continue what you're doing until the next popup...if you view you EXIT your current task/app and there goes any thing you were in middle of.

Let's all be honest here, iPhone is many things to many people but multitasking on it DOES NOT exist. The notification system has limited use and is extremely obtrusive. Both the Palm Pre and Android handle notifications MUCH better.

Let's hope Apple changes their approach soon!

[nagromme]

It sucks btw. So you're uploading a photo or watching a video...you get pushed an AIM notification...blam big popup obstructs your view and you either close or view. If you close, you continue what you're doing until the next popup...if you view you EXIT your current task/app and there goes any thing you were in middle of.

Let's all be honest here, iPhone is many things to many people but multitasking on it DOES NOT exist. The notification system has limited use and is extremely obtrusive. Both the Palm Pre and Android handle notifications MUCH better.

Let's hope Apple changes their approach soon!

Pre has a great notification system, yes. And "true" multitasking has certain benefits, yes.

But you can't deny that Pre-style multitasking ALSO has problems, as I listed above--which Apple's style of app switching avoids.

As for your example... split-screen multitasking is an advantage I didn't mention, and you're right. If your video is still ON the screen, while you're chatting at the SAME time, that's a nice option (though with a new disadvantage: less screen space).

But if you want the full screen for your video (as most do) and the full screen for chatting (another common desire), then switching away from your video is not a problem. Yes, the video player app stops... as it should if you're not watching. I for one seldom desire to communicate AND pay attention to video at the same time on half the screen. Even on my big desktop I'd switch back and forth, which the iPhone can do.

In addition, iPhone offers three different push notification options--it doesn't have to use popups (though I'd personally want them). It can also use audio (and/or vibrate) and (if you don't want instant notification) app badges.

Pre's notification UI is certainly better in some ways--but I'd much rather see smaller popups (top bar?) on the iPhone than see Pre-style multitasking with apps bogging each other down as reviewers have been complaining.

My point being simply that multitasking isn't all good--it's good AND bad. Apple's direction with that dilemma doesn't cramp my style, luckily. Others will certainly prefer a Pre despite the shortcomings. It's nice in many ways.

[NT1440]

Haven't we been hearing that the Pre's multitasking causes hugely significant lag with more than a few apps open?

[chrmjenkins]

They could be comparing iPhone 3G running OS 2.x to iPhone 3GS running OS 3.0 is possible.

OS 3.0 has significant improvements to Safari and other components...add that to the overclock and it's very possible to get to 2x. Also these are benchmarks from APPLE not a 3rd party. I know OS 3.0 is much faster because I've been using it since beta 2.

I'm not saying that it doesn't have the Arm Cortex8, just that I don't believe it until they find out form a tear down or running a system level command/utility to prove it.

Everything out there is based on "sources" or "rumors" and while they may end up being true in the end. The fact of the matter is, nobody knows for sure right?

So until we do know for sure, I'm entitled to my theory that it's the same CPU upclocked to 600mhz combined with twice as much RAM (apps can be cached more aggressively) and OS 3.0. :D

Someone else has recently pointed out that the latest Xcode includes support for the ARMv7 architecture as well as universal iPhone binaries.

[retroneo]

I don't buy this BS...show me a tear down guide of the 3GS that clearly identifies the CPU as a ARM Cortex-A8 and I'll believe you. Until then I still believe all they are doing is upclocking the CPU to 600mhz.

The GPU supports OpenGL ES 2.0, which the MBX Lite (which is on-die with the ARM core) does not. Upclocking the old processor won't give you that, so it's a different chip than the Samsung S5L series.

Samsung has just released a new processor called the S5P series which includes an SGX core and a Cortex A8. - Just like the TI OMAP 3 in the Palm Pre.

[CardiffCentral]

Apple haven't come out with anything radical for almost 3 years. They're losing ground over rivals. They need to pull out something special in the next 12 months.

[Prekesh]

whats pre?

[retroneo]

Here's a demo of OpenGL ES 2.0 running on another Cortex A8 + PowerVR SGX chip*:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24TXpqa9jG0

Watch it in high quality.


*TI OMAP 3

[diamond.g]

Here's a demo of OpenGL ES 2.0 running on another Cortex A8 + PowerVR SGX chip*:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24TXpqa9jG0

Watch it in high quality.


*TI OMAP 3
while it looks pretty, there sure doesn't seem to be a whole lot going on.

[mobilehavoc]

Pre has a great notification system, yes. And "true" multitasking has certain benefits, yes.

But you can't deny that Pre-style multitasking ALSO has problems, as I listed above--which Apple's style of app switching avoids.

As for your example... split-screen multitasking is an advantage I didn't mention, and you're right. If your video is still ON the screen, while you're chatting at the SAME time, that's a nice option (though with a new disadvantage: less screen space).

But if you want the full screen for your video (as most do) and the full screen for chatting (another common desire), then switching away from your video is not a problem. Yes, the video player app stops... as it should if you're not watching. I for one seldom desire to communicate AND pay attention to video at the same time on half the screen. Even on my big desktop I'd switch back and forth, which the iPhone can do.

In addition, iPhone offers three different push notification options--it doesn't have to use popups (though I'd personally want them). It can also use audio (and/or vibrate) and (if you don't want instant notification) app badges.

Pre's notification UI is certainly better in some ways--but I'd much rather see smaller popups (top bar?) on the iPhone than see Pre-style multitasking with apps bogging each other down as reviewers have been complaining.

My point being simply that multitasking isn't all good--it's good AND bad. Apple's direction with that dilemma doesn't cramp my style, luckily. Others will certainly prefer a Pre despite the shortcomings. It's nice in many ways.

Well said. I completely agree that Apple's system avoids some of the pitfalls of allowing processes to continue running in the background. My problem with the iPhone is the way the notification happens with that dialog box that completely interrupts whatever you're doing. You HAVE to take care of the dialog box NOW, you can't notice you have something and deal with it later if you want (i.e. Pre and Android).

If you turn that off, audio and badges are super but if the app is on any other Springboard page except the one you're on you have to scroll through numerous pages to figure out the one with the badge. What if you have other apps with badges, how do you know which one just got the notificiation.

Don't get me wrong, Apple's notification system works great for apps like AIM, Twitter, Facebook, etc. But for everything else, Pre and Android provide a much more elegant solution. If Apple would just suck it up and copy Android and have notifications just show up in the title bar of the iPhone OS, that would make my day. I think there's actually some software available for jailbroken iPhones that does this! :D

[mobilehavoc]

Haven't we been hearing that the Pre's multitasking causes hugely significant lag with more than a few apps open?

I played with one in the store for over an hour and a friend has one. It's very similar to a Mac or PC experience. As long as you manage the apps it runs beautifully. I had 4 web pages open (in separate cards), mail, phone, maps, music and something else (forgot what) open at once and it was as responsive as always.

The Pre's biggest problem will be potential memory leaks and issues from 3rd party apps...Palm will have a less chance of that in their own apps.

Overall though, I have to say the advantages (for me) of multitasking outweigh the negatives. I'm very very tempted to switch to the Pre...I've had iPhone 2G and now 3G.

[SandynJosh]

This new iPhone is faster than my original Mac Plus!:eek:

Yeah, and with more RAM, a color screen backed by a GPU, can communicate with the world, and responds to spoken commands. Oh, and even without a subsidy, costs far less too.

[wetrix]

Apple haven't come out with anything radical for almost 3 years. They're losing ground over rivals. They need to pull out something special in the next 12 months.

The iPhone and the world's thinest notebook spring to mind.

[iSee]

"Background apps" are a great buzzword, but the iPhone DOES have a well-designed way to switch from app to app. Instead of leaving an app running when you're no longer interacting with it, it "pauses" the app (in whatever state, at the discretion of the developer) and then switches pretty quickly to another app--which is much like multitasking only with fewer resources. Need background notifications? Push does it better, faster, and with less battery/RAM usage. Meanwhile, certain key functions like alarm clocks, phone calls and music playback DO multitask on iPhone.

And thus, the iPhone doesn't face the problems of the Pre's background apps:

* They bog each other down (check the Pre reviews).

* You have to manually manage what's running, instead of just "doing what you want."

* They burn battery life.


The iPhone doesn't have "true" multitasking, but nor is it a conventional single-tasking UI. You can think of the Home button as an app switcher instead of Quit--in fact, I'm sure many people have never considered the question either way. They jump from app to app knowing simply that "it works."

Really, "true" multitasking has three main advantages:

1. An app can get work done (3D rendering, video compression, whatever) while you do other things. But that kind of heavy math work is done on a full computer, not a handheld.

2. You can be notified of incoming communications. iPhone OS 3.0 does this--BETTER than true multitasking, in fact.

3. You can switch between apps more quickly. I'll grant you that--but the iPhone (3GS especially) still switches pretty fast, and apps that load slowly are the ones that hog resources and wouldn't multitask well anyway (like some games). So I don't feel this slightly-faster-app-switching outweighs all the negatives of multitasking. (And this is NO advantage unless switching to an app you'd already been running. But I for one don't switch between the same 4-5 apps all the time, I switch among TONS of apps--games mainly--and multitasking won't help there. First launch is still first launch. Not a problem on the Pre with only 18 apps of course :p )

I'd love to have "real" multitasking as an option on the iPhone, but in reality it wouldn't be useful so much as it would be a nice buzzword. I'm content with the "fake" multitasking and all its benefits. It's a good solution to problems the Pre hasn't solved.

YES, exactly. I've been wanting to write this up, but you've put it better than I would have.

Background tasks are just a means to an end, not an end itself. As you point out, Apple's approach is more appropriate for a cell phone/pda device.

[X38]

"Background apps" are a great buzzword,[...] Meanwhile, certain key functions like alarm clocks, phone calls and music playback DO multitask on iPhone.
[...]
I'd love to have "real" multitasking as an option on the iPhone, but in reality it wouldn't be useful so much as it would be a nice buzzword. I'm content with the "fake" multitasking and all its benefits. It's a good solution to problems the Pre hasn't solved.


That's exactly what I haven't understood about all the 'no multitasking' complaints about the iphone recently. It seems to do just fine for me multitasking the things I actually want to multitask on a phone, like listening to music while reading email, continuing a phone call while looking up a contact, etc.
But at some point, just how much multitasking do you want to do on a 3" screen? I can't imagine having an email window open next to a web page for example on a palm sized device. What would be the point? And if I can't see them at the same time, then why is the hibernate in a saved state trick not good enough, especially if it helps with battery time?

Speaking of 3" screens, I went to look at a Pre the other day. It was noticeably smaller than the iphone. The extra thickness wasn't as annoying as I expected it to be due to the smaller height (when closed) and width than the iphone. (Still, extra thickness is NEVER a good thing in a pocket device.) However, the small size comes at the price of a noticeably much smaller screen. I didn't get to play with one yet, but I imagine the screen size will be a serious disappointment. I can think it will only be even worse if you try to have two applications visible on the screen at one time.

[ZebraineZ]

I went to the sprint store today, and they too the phone off the display... I came back an hour later and they put it back because they said they were 'charging' it or sumtin but anyways when I played around with it, for like 2 minutes, the phone was laggy as hell and it kept on turning on the freakin palm pre trailer.

This is why the iphone wins. The pre is confusing and laggy and if someone got it they would mess up on pretty much everything. I have small fingers and yet when I put my fingers on the keyboard it takes up 2 key spaces, which is a BIG downfall. This is also why the software keyboard wins. People say the iphones soft keyboard sucks, but they don't know that actually as fast as a hard keyboard, and WAY more customizable. You wouldn't need a different phone for every country, that is why the iphone wins again.

Plus no keyboard = for screen space which = bigger soft keyboard as well :) I do mess up on alot of things but I mess up on hard keyboards as well, which isn't a problem.

[nagromme]

...
If Apple would just suck it up and copy Android and have notifications just show up in the title bar of the iPhone OS, that would make my day. I think there's actually some software available for jailbroken iPhones that does this! :D

Yes, that's what I'd like too. The popups would still be my first choice (since games pause nicely when it happens) but I'd love some control.

My ideal, I think would be:

* Notifications (of all kinds--calendar events, IMs, whatever) each have an icon, set by the app that sent the message, so the icon can itself convey info at a glance.

* By default, this icon appears nice and big in the corner of a nice big pop-up message (same pop-ups we have now).

* But for advanced users, a "Notifications in Top Bar" setting would remove all pop-up dialogs (other than those presented WITHIN an app you're using of course). Instead the icon alone (small) would flash in the top bar. Off to one corner, so tapping the top-bar to quick-scroll up would not be hampered too much.

* Tap the icon to bring up the usual pop-up and deal with it.

* Or HOLD on the icon to make it stop blinking (but it remains there for when you're ready to tap).

* If too many different icons pile up (could fit quite a few if the clock could be covered), then you'd see a "..." up there to remind you to swipe sideways through them.

* And a separate setting for what to do in full-screen apps (those without any top bar--games and video mainly). Same two choices: popup or top-icon (which would superimpose right on the video or game). Plus a third choice: no notification. Best for game-players who don't need some tappable thing appearing. The icon would still appear, but very briefly and non-tappable. It would flash a few times, play its sound (if any) and be gone.

* And on the home screen, use the little page-dots at the bottom to indicate a badge on that page. The dot would simply become a tiny red dot with white ring--no need to fit a number.

[iMaggot]

The 3GS Sounds good, But i can't wait till next years model.

[richard.mac]

so tempting to get the iPhone 3G S model as my first iPhone but im also thinking of waiting for the 4G model next year. i have no idea if the next iPhone will even have 4G capabilities as well as the networks in my country though.

its a significant upgrade inside even though it looks exactly the same as the 3G. the upgrade is more than enough for me to be satisfied. now that we no the CPU has been upgraded and has double the RAM it certainly sweetens the deal.

[Evangelion]

This is actually really bad news for anyone with a 1st or 2nd generation iPhone. That means that developers will be pushing the limits on their apps to the point that anyone with the older phone is ****ed, unless they want to pay AT&T $250 to break their contract.

For this, I am not looking forward to how many applications I won't be able to run with 3.0.

So, are you suggesting that the performance of the iPhone should not be increased? Ever? That it should be just as fast as it was on the day of the release, for all eternity?

Do you also complain when computers get faster, and developers write new software that takes advantage of that new performance? Should Macs still use 68000 CPU's? I mean, wouldn't increasing the performance of computers hurt those with older computers and fracture the marketplace?

Fact is that the app store is already fractured. Some apps require a camera or GPS, and iPod touch is missing both of those, and the original iPhone is missing the GPS. So not all apps in the App Store function properly on all hardware. So this really doesn't change anything that much.

[Evangelion]

Should I buy now or wait? Let's see what we get with the 3Gs (by the way, a stupid name).....

Faster processor.....current 3G is fast enough for most Apps....and OS 3.0 will make it even faster.

Of course the CPU in 3G is fast enough for apps that are designed to run on the 3G...

Digital Compass.....I'm not a hiker.

what makes you think that you need to be a hiker in order to use the compass? Why not dismiss the Maps as well, since "I'm not a hiker"?

The uses of the compass were only hinted at in the keynote. Schiller said that when you combine the magnetometer with the accelerometers, you can create some pretty nifty controls for apps. I bet that the magnetometer will be used in ways that we can't think of at the moment. Hell, who would have guessed that some developers would use the built-in microphone of the iPhone to turn it in to an ocarina?

[woodgear]

will these updates be carried over to the iPod touch?

[wetrix]

will these updates be carried over to the iPod touch?

3.0 software will be available on the 17th June for $9.99

No news on hardware updates for the touch.

[pjarvi]

Unless i'm mistaken, this makes it more powerful than the Gamecube.

[aristotle]

True. And the new iPhone has an 866MHz processor, but clocked down (according to the Anandtech article / Samsung SoC block diagram).

iPhone 3GS only has SGX520 though, not SGX530 like the Pre.

http://www.design-reuse.com/news/19570/opengl-es-2-0-core.html
Yet without real API on the Pre, none of that matters since nobody can currently write 3D apps on the Pre even when the Javascript API is released.

[applecultvictim]

I have been shouting my lungs out here, but no one seems to be listening:

What is the speed of the flash in the new iphone, is it quicker or not, this is (one of ) the real bottleneck (s).

[Anaxarxes]

Maybe someone asked earlier but what's gonna happen in the app store since Apple ditched the uniformity of it's touch devices with the introduction of GS?

We'll see games with options menu to scale down the graphic detail? Apps that require 256MB RAM only?

[chrmjenkins]

Unless i'm mistaken, this makes it more powerful than the Gamecube.

No. Sega themselves said the original iphone was as powerful as a dreamcast. This is up to 2x better. Gamecube is further ahead of DC than that. This is somewhere between a DC and a PS2.

I have been shouting my lungs out here, but no one seems to be listening:

What is the speed of the flash in the new iphone, is it quicker or not, this is (one of ) the real bottleneck (s).

We don't know, so we can't answer you. What do you want us to do?

Maybe someone asked earlier but what's gonna happen in the app store since Apple ditched the uniformity of it's touch devices with the introduction of GS?

We'll see games with options menu to scale down the graphic detail? Apps that require 256MB RAM only?

That will be the developer's choice if they want to make 3GS only apps. They won't abandon the 40 million iDevice install base already there.

[Razeus]

How does making apps exclusive to the 3GS abandon the other iPhone users? Those apps weren't made for the other iPhones and therefore the developers know that's not their market. Should developers still make apps that run on Windows 95 hardware too? The sense of entitlement in this forum is through the roof.

[nagromme]

3.0 software will be available on the 17th June for $9.99

No news on hardware updates for the touch.

I expect new Touches will be out at the end of summer when the Back To School promo (free Touch) ends. That's Apple's usual timing with iPods.

It would be pretty awesome to have camera/mic/GPS/compass/vibrate (good for games, not just calls) at least in the top model. But I tend to doubt it. Faster processors and more storage though!

Should developers still make apps that run on Windows 95 hardware too? The sense of entitlement in this forum is through the roof.

In fact, they DO still make apps that run on old Win95 computers. And by the same token, there will be TONS of apps for pre-3GS iPhones, for far longer than our phones will even last. And you're right--the sky is not falling just because the iPhone didn't remain frozen while the competition advanced :)

[AtlasBoy]

There's an article on Apple Insider about how Apple handeles Apps on different versions of hardware (among other things). Scroll about half way down to the section "Keeping software compatible isn't easy"

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/06/11/why_apple_keeps_iphone_specifications_quiet.html

[applecultvictim]

]
We don't know, so we can't answer you. What do you want us to do?

No one answered even that. :) . Someone should search though because it's very important.

[chrmjenkins]

No one answered even that. :) . Someone should search though because it's very important.

We have to wait for the ifixit teardown. If you're really that interested, you can take a look at the article about Apple ordering NAND chips, see where they came from and try and find a datasheet on them.

[applecultvictim]

cool. :)

[optophobia]

Should I buy now or wait? Let's see what we get with the 3Gs (by the way, a stupid name).....

Faster processor.....current 3G is fast enough for most Apps....and OS 3.0 will make it even faster.

Video....A 'toy' that you will grow tired of.

Digital Compass.....I'm not a hiker.

Voice Control....Might be nice.


Any rumors on the 2010 iPhone? :)

The digital compass will be handy in street mapping.
The 3GS has twice as much RAM which should reduce the amount of applications crashing. If you think the 3G doesn't crash much, you obviously don't use your phone much.

[conraddon]

Best Line Ever!

[LERsince1991]

Faster than my old desktop... That was 7 years ago now though :cool:
Not one desktop since...

[/dev/toaster]

So, are you suggesting that the performance of the iPhone should not be increased? Ever? That it should be just as fast as it was on the day of the release, for all eternity?

Do you also complain when computers get faster, and developers write new software that takes advantage of that new performance? Should Macs still use 68000 CPU's? I mean, wouldn't increasing the performance of computers hurt those with older computers and fracture the marketplace?

Fact is that the app store is already fractured. Some apps require a camera or GPS, and iPod touch is missing both of those, and the original iPhone is missing the GPS. So not all apps in the App Store function properly on all hardware. So this really doesn't change anything that much.

... no .. I am saying that anyone who upgraded to the 3G will be screwed because they can't get the 3Gs due to contract restrictions. Comparing the iPhone and iPod touch isn't a fair comparison on this.

What I am talking about is developers creating new applications that take full advantage of the 3Gs and leave everyone else behind without creating a version for the lower end versions.

[chrmjenkins]

... no .. I am saying that anyone who upgraded to the 3G will be screwed because they can't get the 3Gs due to contract restrictions. Comparing the iPhone and iPod touch isn't a fair comparison on this.

What I am talking about is developers creating new applications that take full advantage of the 3Gs and leave everyone else behind without creating a version for the lower end versions.

Why on earth would you ignore 40 million devices if you want to make money?

[boonlar]

lol Cortex A-8 and apple still won't allow mutlitasking? and still 480x320 screen? this is 2009, way to stay behind yet again apple

[MacAndy74]

lol Cortex A-8 and apple still won't allow mutlitasking? and still 480x320 screen? this is 2009, way to stay behind yet again apple

So go and buy something else. ;)

Anyway, I can understand Apple being more cautious with it's iPhone update. The world is in recession (except Australia ATM *smug*) and people are less likely to spend even more on a new phone. I think the updates Apple has prepared with the 3G[S] are 'good enough' - I plan on buying one myself, although I want to buy mine out at Vodafone, and only buy a data / phone plan. :cool:

[nagromme]

lol Cortex A-8 and apple still won't allow mutlitasking? and still 480x320 screen? this is 2009, way to stay behind yet again apple

Exactly. Brilliant! Apple is always following while other companies lead, and the iPhone 3GS is a prime example of this failure :D :p :D ;)

[akm3]

Apple's just holding out multitasking so they can release the iPhone 4g, the iPhone 4g s and then later the 'iPhone Multitasking finally'

[wickedsteve]

Heh, lawyers!

::grin::

M@

Not just lawyers should know about the fallacy of argument from ignorance. Anyone who wants to use critical thinking or logical debate should understand it. It is in the same ballpark as strawman arguments, arguments from "authority", Non sequitur and Ad hominem, among others.

Without realizing these errors you will never overcome your cognitive biases and make poor decisions based on bad assumptions and false conclusions.

[iMacDragon]

Apple's just holding out multitasking so they can release the iPhone 4g, the iPhone 4g s and then later the 'iPhone Multitasking finally'

Quite possibly.. I suspect the 4g will have cortex a9, with dual cores, either next summer or summer after I guess.

[iPhoneNYC]

I am very much looking for to get a 3G S. However, I do think I'll wait a couple of weeks after the release. Aside from no lines, I'm positive we'll see software updates like the first time round. Also, I know a number of people who've has problems with their first day of issue iPhones (quickly exchanged at the Apple Store) but a pain anyway.

[nws0291]

The new iPhone will have the same specs as the Palm Pre. The Pre can multitask without much effort. It seems like iPhone should be able to do the same.

[finnns2000]

this makes me want to upgrade... i feel like sometimes, the 3g needs more ram. text messaging app takes way too long to load.