Shooting at Holocaust Museum

[rdowns]

Link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31208188/)

MSNBC TV is reporting the guy was 89 years old with ties to anti-government and white supremacist groups.

WASHINGTON - A gunman exchanged fire with security guards inside the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum on Wednesday. One security guard and the gunman were taken to a hospital.

The suspect, who was not identified, was reportedly a man, born in 1920, who had possible connections to hate groups or anti-government groups.

D.C. police spokeswoman Traci Hughes said a person walked into the museum at about 1 p.m. ET with a rifle and shot a guard. U.S. Park Police Sgt. David Schlosser says one or more guards at the museum returned fire, hitting the suspect.

[SteveMobs]

I've been wanting to visit the museum for a while now. But this is no good. Stupid white-supremacist. Terrible

[leekohler]

I wonder if he was a friend of the abortion doctor killer too?

[Peace]

I tell ya. This is extreme but I think ANYBODY that promotes the right wing extremist views that Obama and Democrats are destroying this country should be arrested for promoting hate crimes. And this includes members of congress.

[Cursor]

I tell ya. This is extreme but I think ANYBODY that promotes the right wing extremist views that Obama and Democrats are destroying this country should be arrested for promoting hate crimes. And this includes members of congress.

Geez, isn't that going against the principles that this country was founded upon? Namely the first amendment of our Bill of Rights. I don't support the shooting or racism, but we do have the right to disagree with Obama and the Republicrats.

How does strongly disagreeing with the administration considered a "hate crime"? Your comment seems mighty hypocritical.

[mactastic]

I'm sure we all remember how hopping-mad conservatives got when the DOJ (correctly, as it's turned out) identified radical right-wing extremists as the most likely sources of domestic attacks.

Turns out they were right...

[leekohler]

I'm sure we all remember how hopping-mad conservatives got when the DOJ (correctly, as it's turned out) identified radical right-wing extremists as the most likely sources of domestic attacks.

Turns out they were right...

We'll see more too.

Geez, isn't that going against the principles that this country was founded upon? Namely the first amendment of our Bill of Rights. I don't support the shooting or racism, but we do have the right to disagree with Obama and the Republicrats.

How does strongly disagreeing with the administration considered a "hate crime"? Your comment seems mighty hypocritical.

Everyone has the right to disagree. I think Peace went too far as well.

[Peace]

Geez, isn't that going against the principles that this country was founded upon? Namely the first amendment of our Bill of Rights. I don't support the shooting or racism, but we do have the right to disagree with Obama and the Republicrats.

How does strongly disagreeing with the administration considered a "hate crime"? Your comment seems mighty hypocritical.

We'll see more too.



Everyone has the right to disagree. I think Peace went too far as well.

When a well known actor like Jon Voigt says Obama is destroying the country and calls him the false prophet that incites hate.

Think about it.

Sarah Palin says he hangs around with terrorist ?? WTF??

You don't think that's incitement ?

I do.

And I stand by my view.

I might add some of the anti-war leaders were arrested for the same thing in the 60's

[mactastic]

Everyone has the right to disagree. I think Peace went too far as well.
You know, it's funny... I don't hear Michael Wiener agitating for the reinstatement of the Sedition Act anymore; something he spent most of the Bush administration arguing for using against critics of the Bush administration. ;)

And no, I don't think you arrest people for thinking or saying nasty things.

[leekohler]

When a well known actor like Jon Voigt says Obama is destroying the country and calls him the false prophet that incites hate.

Think about it.

Sarah Palin says he hangs around with terrorist ?? WTF??

You don't think that's incitement ?

I do.

And I stand by my view.

I might add some of the anti-war leaders were arrested for the same thing in the 60's

It's going to be a cold day in hell before I say that someone should be arrested in this country for voicing an unpopular opinion. I stand by that.

[Cursor]

When a well known actor like Jon Voigt says Obama is destroying the country and calls him the false prophet that incites hate.

Think about it.

Sarah Palin says he hangs around with terrorist ?? WTF??

You don't think that's incitement ?

I do.

And I stand by my view.

I might add some of the anti-war leaders were arrested for the same thing in the 60's

Well, I think those are cases of slander more than anything else. Obama doesn't pal around with terrorists, and I doubt that he is any kind of prophet, let alone a false one.

I think you're view is extremist. I also think that the 60s anti-war protesters should not have been arrested, if they were just making statements and not actually breaking any laws.

[armoguy94]

I tell ya. This is extreme but I think ANYBODY that promotes the right wing extremist views that Obama and Democrats are destroying this country should be arrested for promoting hate crimes. And this includes members of congress.

Are you serious? Well believe it or not, they are. Not only America, but the entire world too. Just wait for a new world order. And guess what, unless people speak up (which is exactly what you are trying to prevent), it'll happen, and it'll happen soon. A one world religion, one world government, one world economy. All controlled by the devil.

Anyways this is off-topic. I find it odd that an 89 year old man had the energy to go out and do a shooting ....... at the Holocaust Museum???? That's unbelievable!

[yg17]

Can we start calling these right wing nutjobs terrorists yet? How about we ask Darth Cheney if we should haul their asses down to Gitmo and waterboard them, you know, to make America safer or some BS like that

[mactastic]

Are you serious? Well believe it or not, they are. Not only America, but the entire world too. Just wait for a new world order. And guess what, unless people speak up (which is exactly what you are trying to prevent), it'll happen, and it'll happen soon. A one world religion, one world government, one world economy. All controlled by the devil.

Anyways this is off-topic. I find it odd that an 89 year old man had the energy to go out and do a shooting ....... at the Holocaust Museum???? That's unbelievable!
Wow... I hesitate to ask, but do you have a link to that?

[Cursor]

Can we start calling these right wing nutjobs terrorists yet? How about we ask Darth Cheney if we should haul their asses down to Gitmo and waterboard them, you know, to make America safer or some BS like that

"Terrorist" is a curious, broad term. I would hesitate very much, calling any domestic criminal or even a "nutjob", as you call some people, a terrorist. It could open up a hot-bed in new Government oversight and unconstitutional laws that hurt anybody disagreeing with an administration. We have safeguards to protect people, until they are proven guilty, but if people are classified as a "terrorist", those safeguards could go away and detrimentally affect us all.

You know, back in 1776, our American founding fathers were considered terrorists by the British.

[leekohler]

Are you serious? Well believe it or not, they are. Not only America, but the entire world too. Just wait for a new world order. And guess what, unless people speak up (which is exactly what you are trying to prevent), it'll happen, and it'll happen soon. A one world religion, one world government, one world economy. All controlled by the devil.

Anyways this is off-topic. I find it odd that an 89 year old man had the energy to go out and do a shooting ....... at the Holocaust Museum???? That's unbelievable!

Wow. There must be a sale on tin foil!

[it5five]

Wow... I hesitate to ask, but do you have a link to that?

Hesitate? If he has a source, its sure to provide hours of fun.

[mactastic]

You know, back in 1776, our American founding fathers were considered terrorists by the British.
A point some of us have been making for almost 8 years now.

[yg17]

Hesitate? If he has a source, its sure to provide hours of fun.


We should start a pool...will his source be Free Republic? Red State? Storm Front? Place your bets!

[Cursor]

A point some of us have been making for almost 8 years now.

I'm not sure I am getting your meaning. What are you saying?

[rdowns]

I'm not sure I am getting your meaning. What are you saying?

Remember how the Bushies and their supporters claimed anyone who spoke out against Bush was un-American or unpatriotic. By their definition, we ought to haul Jon Voight off to Gitmo. :rolleyes:

[mactastic]

I'm not sure I am getting your meaning. What are you saying?
Many of us have expressed concerns about the term for years now. However, if we're going to call acts of violence with political overtones, whether deliberate or indiscriminate, terrorism, we really should be consistent in our application of the term.

If you're a terrorist for walking into a cafe and killing random people, then you're a terrorist for walking into a museum and shooting up random people. If you're a terrorist for deliberately targeting the people of a building for death, it shouldn't matter whether that building is the WTC or the Holocaust museum.

And it certainly shouldn't matter what the religion or ethnicity of the attacker is in the application of the term.

[Cursor]

Remember how the Bushies and their supporters claimed anyone who spoke out against Bush was un-American or unpatriotic. By their definition, we ought to haul Jon Voight off to Gitmo. :rolleyes:

I remember. I strongly disagree with the Bush/Cheney opinions. I've been saying that from the beginning.

If we the people lose the right to have an opinion against any part of the government, then this country ceases to be the United States of America, and our Constitution is downgraded to just a "worthless piece of paper".

[.Andy]

If we the people lose the right to have an opinion
Just as bad is having the right to that opinion but not exercising it at election time.

[armoguy94]

Wow. There must be a sale on tin foil!

says the one with the devil mask as his avatar, lol

[leekohler]

says the one with the devil mask as his avatar, lol

Yeah, because that means I'm a satanist. :rolleyes:

[mactastic]

Hmm... turns out that this guy was a veteran too. Didn't the DHS report that conservatives were so offended by say that as well?

[Doctor Q]

A friend of mine is scheduled to visit the Holocaust Museum a couple of days from now a feels a bit skittish now. I can't blame them. Even though the shooting was (apparently) the work of a single person, and security will be beefed up, it's hard to walk in with news of a shooting fresh in your mind.

[localoid]

Just a few days ago I ran into a fellow I've known for a while in town, and the next time I knew the subject of "it's a fact that Hitler and the Nazis weren't nearly as bad as what history claims" was coming from this fellow's mouth. No amount of logic or historic facts I recited seemed to phase him and I had no luck changing his (apparently new found) belief that the holocaust never happened.

I was very surprised at this. Dumbfounded actually. This man has always seemed like a reasonably minded person most everything he's said previously. In the past, I've heard him defend minority rights in city council meetings, for example. But he's had some serious health problems recently, is now out of work, and not doing as well financially as he has in the past.

Is it just the bad economy combined with the over abundance of mis-information available on the Web that causes people to suddenly turned lose their ability to apply critical thinking? Or is it because the greater society has lost any sort of concept of what happened just a few decades ago because most of the people who experienced the era are now gone?

Or is there some strange alien creature that's now living under their houses that comes out at night and slowly starts sucking their brains out while they sleep?

[thegoldenmackid]

I have a relative that works there, sad, just plain sad.

[Cursor]

I'm noticing that almost all of the major US news sites are using a younger looking photo of the suspected shooter. While most other news sites in other parts of the world are using a recent photo (obviously of a late 80s looking male). Does anyone else find this odd? Why would US news agencies use a younger looking photo when a more recent photo is obviously out there, readily accessible? I find this very strange.

[iGary]

I hope he spends the rest of his short-ass life in prison.

[rdowns]

I hope he spends the rest of his short-ass life in prison.


Let's hope he can't afford a lawyer and the court appoints him a Jew or black lawyer. Better yet, a black Jew lawyer. :D

[Burnsey]

Just a few days ago I ran into a fellow I've known for a while in town, and the next time I knew the subject of "it's a fact that Hitler and the Nazis weren't nearly as bad as what history claims" was coming from this fellow's mouth. No amount of logic or historic facts I recited seemed to phase him and I had no luck changing his (apparently new found) belief that the holocaust never happened.

I was very surprised at this. Dumbfounded actually. This man has always seemed like a reasonably minded person most everything he's said previously. In the past, I've heard him defend minority rights in city council meetings, for example. But he's had some serious health problems recently, is now out of work, and not doing as well financially as he has in the past.

Is it just the bad economy combined with the over abundance of mis-information available on the Web that causes people to suddenly turned lose their ability to apply critical thinking? Or is it because the greater society has lost any sort of concept of what happened just a few decades ago because most of the people who experienced the era are now gone?

Or is there some strange alien creature that's now living under their houses that comes out at night and slowly starts sucking their brains out while they sleep?

History happens -> eventually people forget history and it loses its significance -> history repeats.

[joepunk]

This clip from yesterday's show, about the Holocaust Museum shooter, is fracking amazing. I first got the impression that he is threatening more attacks, then he tries to sever all ties between white supremacists and conservatives by saying that Al Qaeda is working for/with these supremacists groups. After which he says "there's going to be a witch-hunt for 2 groups: the Jews and conservatives."

Good God! I am floored by his comments:

www.foxnews.com/video (http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html?playerId=011008&streamingFormat=FLASH&referralObject=5888337&referralPlaylistId=undefined)

[Agathon]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the far right is collectively working itself up to an act of unspeakable violence, probably aimed at the President?

I sure hope his guards are good.

I thought that this particular horror, at a holocaust museum of all places, would have snapped people out of it, but Glenn Beck and the other nuts are just fanning the the flames.

[mactastic]

Does anyone else get the feeling that the far right is collectively working itself up to an act of unspeakable violence, probably aimed at the President?

I sure hope his guards are good.

I thought that this particular horror, at a holocaust museum of all places, would have snapped people out of it, but Glenn Beck and the other nuts are just fanning the the flames.
Krugman, yesterday (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/12/opinion/12krugman.html?_r=1):
Today, as in the early years of the Clinton administration but to an even greater extent, right-wing extremism is being systematically fed by the conservative media and political establishment.

...

And at this point, whatever dividing line there was between mainstream conservatism and the black-helicopter crowd seems to have been virtually erased.

Exhibit A for the mainstreaming of right-wing extremism is Fox News’s new star, Glenn Beck. Here we have a network where, like it or not, millions of Americans get their news — and it gives daily airtime to a commentator who, among other things, warned viewers that the Federal Emergency Management Agency might be building concentration camps as part of the Obama administration’s “totalitarian” agenda (although he eventually conceded that nothing of the kind was happening).

But let’s not neglect the print news media. In the Bush years, The Washington Times became an important media player because it was widely regarded as the Bush administration’s house organ. Earlier this week, the newspaper saw fit to run an opinion piece declaring that President Obama “not only identifies with Muslims, but actually may still be one himself,” and that in any case he has “aligned himself” with the radical Muslim Brotherhood.

And then there’s Rush Limbaugh. His rants today aren’t very different from his rants in 1993. But he occupies a different position in the scheme of things. Remember, during the Bush years Mr. Limbaugh became very much a political insider. Indeed, according to a recent Gallup survey, 10 percent of Republicans now consider him the “main person who speaks for the Republican Party today,” putting him in a three-way tie with Dick Cheney and Newt Gingrich. So when Mr. Limbaugh peddles conspiracy theories — suggesting, for example, that fears over swine flu were being hyped “to get people to respond to government orders” — that’s a case of the conservative media establishment joining hands with the lunatic fringe.

It’s not surprising, then, that politicians are doing the same thing. The R.N.C. says that “the Democratic Party is dedicated to restructuring American society along socialist ideals.” And when Jon Voight, the actor, told the audience at a Republican fund-raiser this week that the president is a “false prophet” and that “we and we alone are the right frame of mind to free this nation from this Obama oppression,” Mitch McConnell, the Senate minority leader, thanked him, saying that he “really enjoyed” the remarks.
Last time this hatred manifested itself in what was, at the time, the worst act of terrorism on American soil (up until al Qaeda took the top spot). If some of these extremists have their way, they'll take that record back again.

[Gelfin]

This clip from yesterday's show, about the Holocaust Museum shooter, is fracking amazing. I first got the impression that he is threatening more attacks, then he tries to sever all ties between white supremacists and conservatives by saying that Al Qaeda is working for/with these supremacists groups. After which he says "there's going to be a witch-hunt for 2 groups: the Jews and conservatives."

What I want to know is, when does the witch hunt for Glenn Beck start? Because I'm quite sure I saw him casting Satanic imprecations at Goody Felchister by the light of the moon a fortnight ago.

[Agathon]

Last time this hatred manifested itself in what was, at the time, the worst act of terrorism on American soil (up until al Qaeda took the top spot). If some of these extremists have their way, they'll take that record back again.

They are definitely getting nuttier. I don't remember it being this bad at the beginning of Clinton's presidency.

I don't know what these nuts like Beck are doing, but if someone does something that can be reasonably connected to their rabble rousing, then I'd want to see them prosecuted for inciting violence.

And if those militia clowns bomb anything, I hope Obama sends the military to hunt down every last one of them. Then they'll see how useless their second amendment is against professional soldiers.

[iGary]

I used to live three doors down from this guy. :eek:

[Agathon]

After which he says "there's going to be a witch-hunt for 2 groups: the Jews and conservatives."

I was flabbergasted by that comment.

It's almost as if conservatives want to have the Jews persecuted alongside them to provide some legitimacy, since everyone else would laugh if just conservatives were being persecuted.

[mactastic]

I used to live three doors down from this guy. :eek:
I'm guessing he didn't know about your lifestyle or agenda? :p

[iGary]

I'm guessing he didn't know about your lifestyle or agenda? :p

That's what my office mates said. :p :D

I saw the picture in our local paper and he lived in the same complex I used to.